*** Logfile started
*** on Mon Sep 6 22:20:52 2010

[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:20:52] Join	You have joined the channel #aichallenge (~amstan@206-248-161-147.dsl.teksavvy.com).
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:20:52] Topic	The channel topic is "Welcome to UWaterloo CSClub's AI Challenge. Summer 2010 Fun is in the works, stay tuned in here for more! Next game: Galcon.".
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:20:52] Topic	The topic was set by amstan!~alex@bas1-hamilton01-2925009853.dsl.bell.ca on 2010-05-07 14:43.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:20:52] Mode	Channel modes: no colors allowed, no messages from outside, topic protection
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:20:52] Created	This channel was created on 2010-04-29 00:13.
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[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:32:10] Join	j3camero has joined this channel (~j3camero@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca).
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[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:33:39] <j3camero>	I am here!
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:33:42] <amstan>	good..
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:33:50] 470	amstan #googleai #ai-challenge Forwarding to another channel
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:34:06] 482	amstan #googleai You're not channel operator
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:34:23] Invite	ChanServ invited you to channel #googleai.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:34:24] <j3camero>	Okay we can move stuff into this channel I suppose. We could even do admin work here. I don't see why not.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:34:44] <j3camero>	No need to be so secretive, since everything is open source. Not like last time.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:35:13] <amstan>	j3camero: ok, so no secret channel
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:35:17] <j3camero>	@amstan: do you wanna create a forum announcement about the IRC channel?
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:35:33] <amstan>	what if we need a group discussion between organizers?
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:37:47] <j3camero>	We will make a channel then I suppose.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:38:01] <j3camero>	I could see a need if there was a successful attack, for example.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:38:24] <j3camero>	We could create one pre-emptively if you like.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:48:27] Join	Zannick has joined this channel (jokeserver@MAXIMEGALON.ANDREW.CMU.EDU).
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:48:35] <amstan>	j3camero: ok.. channel on demand it is
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:48:40] <amstan>	Zannick: welcome!
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:48:45] <Zannick>	hi!
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:49:42] Topic	You set the channel topic to "Official Google AI-Challenge | All Your Planets are belong to us | http://ai-contest.com/ | Contest will start Friday September 10th | Good Luck".
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:50:40] Topic	ChanServ sets the channel topic to "Official Google AI-Challenge | All Your Planets are belong to us. | http://ai-contest.com/ | Contest will start Friday September 10th. | Good Luck!".
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:54:51] Join	ChanServ has joined this channel (ChanServ@services.).
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[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:55:18] Join	a1k0n has joined this channel (~a1k0n@fear.incarnate.net).
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:55:31] <amstan>	a1k0n: yay! welcome
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:56:55] <a1k0n>	hey there
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:57:04] <a1k0n>	i can't believe you're doing another challenge this soon
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:57:14] <amstan>	ideally it should of been the summer term
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:57:20] <a1k0n>	and opening it for almost two months
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:57:30] <amstan>	yes... shame for us
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:57:52] <a1k0n>	i see you guys went on a forum replying marathon
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:58:19] <amstan>	yeah, we are in need of more devs
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:59:00] <Zannick>	this soon?
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:59:01] <j3camero>	Oh shit yes. We are short staffed my friends.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:59:12] <Zannick>	i've been waiting since the end of the last one
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:59:13] <Zannick>	:P
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:59:22] <j3camero>	The issue list is expanding faster than I could ever shrink it by my self.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:59:30] <a1k0n>	ha.  well, that was only 7 months ago or something
[Monday 06 September 2010] [22:59:39] <a1k0n>	6 months
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:00:11] <amstan>	darn! dash again!
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:00:13] Topic	The channel topic is "Official Google AI-Challenge | All Your Planets are belong to us. | http://ai-contest.com/ | Contest will start Friday September 10th. | Good Luck!".
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:00:13] Topic	The topic was set by amstan on 2010-09-06 22:50.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:00:14] <j3camero>	Okay, I want to let everybody in here have a contest account a few days early, so that we can get some feedback before throwing open the gates on Friday. Who is in?
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:00:34] <Zannick>	i don't have a bot ready D:
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:00:36] <a1k0n>	so jeff, i want you to know that winning the google AI challenge literally changed my life
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:00:38] Topic	ChanServ sets the channel topic to "Official Google AI Challenge | All Your Planets are belong to us. | http://ai-contest.com/ | Contest will start Friday September 10th. | Good Luck!".
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:00:56] <amstan>	a1k0n: nice to hear
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:00:58] <a1k0n>	i live in the bay area now, and have a much more intersting job (still within Yahoo; I rejected offers from three other companies)
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:01:03] <j3camero>	a1k0n: please tell me the story. Can you email me? I am about to hit the sack. First day of work tomorrow.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:01:14] <amstan>	a1k0n: pastebin it, or.. blogpost
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:01:16] <a1k0n>	well, that's the gist of it
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:01:19] <amstan>	so we all can enjoy
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:01:22] <Zannick>	it's really weird seeing "jeff cameron" as i have a friend from my college named "geoff cameron"
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:01:22] <j3camero>	a1k0n: have you got job offers because of the contest?
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:01:23] <a1k0n>	i don't know if i want to get too detailed
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:01:28] <a1k0n>	j3camero: several!
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:01:33] <amstan>	epic..
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:01:37] <Zannick>	nice.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:01:48] <j3camero>	a1k0n: fuck me. That's awesome man.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:01:58] <a1k0n>	winning contest + blogging about it = offers from all over the place
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:02:06] <j3camero>	a1k0n: I'm so glad it's making a difference in people's lives. Holy awesome.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:02:07] <a1k0n>	(+ reddit in there)
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:02:33] <a1k0n>	anyway we moved to sunnyvale a month ago, and i'm loving my new job
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:02:45] <amstan>	who said entertaining yourself is not productive
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:02:49] <Zannick>	a1k0n: congrats
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:02:52] <j3camero>	a1k0n: please write me up an email. Let me know which offers you got and how you got them, if you are willing to share.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:03:03] <a1k0n>	totally.  my wife thought this thing was totally retarded.. until the job offers rolled in
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:03:16] <j3camero>	a1k0n: money money moooooney
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:03:22] <j3camero>	hehe
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:03:38] <Zannick>	i'm also in sunnyvale working for a well-known tech company, but unrelated to this contest as i didn't participate last time
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:03:52] <a1k0n>	nice
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:03:58] <j3camero>	Actually it's got me some more job offers too. There's a couple recruiters harassing me to quit my current job and join them instead. Booyah.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:04:12] <a1k0n>	cool.  your current job interning at google?
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:04:23] <a1k0n>	or is tha tno longer current
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:04:25] <j3camero>	Nope that was a year ago. Now I work at a bank.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:04:28] <a1k0n>	aha.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:05:04] <Zannick>	oh, right.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:05:04] <amstan>	only i had like 4 crappy jobs this summer, i really need to get out more
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:05:25] <Zannick>	is the only restriction on competing not being part of the team running the contest?
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:05:36] <amstan>	Zannick: hold on, there's a thing i wrote from that
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:05:39] <amstan>	for*
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:05:49] <Zannick>	as in, i work for google, i don't want to be disqualified later for it
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:05:51] <amstan>	Zannick: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/wiki/OrganizingAgreement
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:05:52] <a1k0n>	ok, my two year old wants help building a lego house.  i'll write up an email jeff
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:06:15] <amstan>	a1k0n: can you forward to amstan@csclub.uwaterloo.ca too please?
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:06:21] <amstan>	i would really like hearing about it too
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:06:21] <a1k0n>	ok.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:06:28] <a1k0n>	i actually turned google's offer down
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:06:31] <Zannick>	kk
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:06:43] <j3camero>	@amstan: can you take care of this? http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=403
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:07:02] <amstan>	j3camero: i think it's because of the logo, pgpaskar modified it, idk what he did
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:07:12] <amstan>	i noticed it too, on ie6
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:08:05] <j3camero>	IE was like 4.5% of our traffic last time. Still, it would be great to fix it. I imagine most journalists would be using IE, for example.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:08:35] <j3camero>	@amstan: can you talk with pgpaskar and try to get the IE problem sorted out?
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:08:43] <amstan>	j3camero: i will
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:09:04] <j3camero>	@amstan: awesome.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:09:06] <amstan>	oh what joys IE brings us every year
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:09:13] <amstan>	j3camero: the '@' is not required
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:09:19] <amstan>	it just shows up because i'm op
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:09:25] <j3camero>	Okay I cannot do any more. That's enough replying and ticket filing for me today. I gotta hit the sack. First day of my new job tomorrow!
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:09:33] <Zannick>	good luck!
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:09:41] <j3camero>	Zannick: which team at Google?
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:09:53] <j3camero>	I interned with the web search team in MTV last year.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:10:05] <Zannick>	SRE, google accounts
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:10:08] <Zannick>	like gmail, etc.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:11:16] <Zannick>	i'm still pretty new
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:11:57] <Zannick>	i like to think they hired me because i had volunteer bughunting/fixing on my resume from an open-source roguelike i play
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:13:19] <j3camero>	Zannick: awesome. Have you been through a major Gmail outage yet? We had a big one last summer. It was pretty exciting.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:13:32] <amstan>	Zannick: good thing to know, i'm also looking for a job at google
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:13:35] <Zannick>	so you might see me submit some more patches :)
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:13:52] <Zannick>	amstan: good work experience, always a plus
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:14:06] Join	ebrahim has joined this channel (~ebrahim@217.219.234.95).
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:14:06] <Zannick>	j3camero: a couple interesting outages
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:14:07] Quit	ebrahim has left this server (Changing host).
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[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:14:16] <amstan>	ebrahim: hey! welcome back
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:14:28] <ebrahim>	Hi amstan :)
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:14:41] <Zannick>	amstan: i can't really say yea or nay on what's good to have, though
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:14:51] <ebrahim>	Hi a1k0n. Do you plan to take part in the new contest?
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:14:56] <amstan>	Zannick: of course, everyone's different
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:15:03] <j3camero>	Zannick: yeah more patches! It's like the best thing ever when people submit patches!
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:15:17] <amstan>	j3camero: nice to have it open source, eh?
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:15:21] <Zannick>	j3camero: i already submitted two!
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:15:22] <j3camero>	Zannick: check out the issue list now. I need some serious help.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:15:38] <Zannick>	and i'm just gonna confuse everyone when i say that i go by different names everywhere :P
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:15:50] <j3camero>	Zannick: I can show you around the codebase if you want help. It's up to you.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:16:23] <Zannick>	i've already done some diving, but i'll try to help out later
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:16:41] <j3camero>	Zannick: yep at your own leisure, of course.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:16:50] <Zannick>	and don't let me keep you from sleeping! :)
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:17:03] <j3camero>	Zannick: it is an axiom that the issue list always expands faster than it can possibly be shrunk. I am used to it.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:17:57] <amstan>	j3camero: you're going to die tomorrow, go Zzzz
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:19:14] <amstan>	so... my plans for this channel... a handy bot that you can ask it the latest results
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:19:52] <Zannick>	irc bots are fun
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:19:57] <amstan>	very
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:20:35] Join	mistabell has joined this channel (46ad57b3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.173.87.179).
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:20:51] <amstan>	looks like the webchat link is helping
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:20:59] <amstan>	mistabell: welcome!
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:21:03] <mistabell>	hello!
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:21:15] <mistabell>	the webchat link is nice.  sweet irc client
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:21:44] <amstan>	i tought it would be a good idea for people that are not that familiar with irc clients, or just for convenience's sake
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:22:04] <amstan>	it might later prove to be a security problem, we had this problem last year with some trolls
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:22:12] <amstan>	but till then it's nice
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:25:18] <mistabell>	I missed out on the Tron challenge.  I don't quite get how these are ranked.  Are there random battles every so often between bots?
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:26:10] <amstan>	mistabell: yes, right now we're picking 2 random bots
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:26:16] <amstan>	doing a battle and seeing who wins
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:26:28] <amstan>	then we have an algorithm for ranking them
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:26:31] <mistabell>	So if you have a few battles, then modify your code
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:26:42] <mistabell>	the new code counts in the new battles?
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:27:01] <amstan>	the battles are always associated with code version i think
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:27:11] <mistabell>	cool, makes sense
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:27:17] <amstan>	if you put a new bot in, it's like the old battles never happened
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:27:29] <mistabell>	oh, ok
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:27:35] <amstan>	example: if you have a random bot, and by pure chance it won all the matches
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:27:44] Quit	ebrahim has left this server (Remote host closed the connection).
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:27:57] <amstan>	if you reupload again, and you loose one match, it doesn't matter that you won all of these before
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:28:31] <mistabell>	so if you get a good score, it might be better not to upload again?
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:29:29] <amstan>	i think with our algorithm this is not a problem anymore
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:29:37] <amstan>	it used to be, but afaik it's not anymore
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:29:39] <mistabell>	cool, I won't worry about it
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:30:07] <amstan>	we will drill the bots until we're confident it was not just pure chance that made them win
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:30:16] <j3camero>	mistabell: the slate is wiped 100% clean when you resubmit
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:30:34] <mistabell>	good stuff.  I'm probably going to need to resubmit a few times once I see how these bots actually do
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:30:42] <amstan>	j3camero: aren't you sleeping?
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:30:57] <mistabell>	see you guys friday
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:30:59] <j3camero>	Okay, I want to give everyone in here an account right now, so that we can start to get feedback before Friday. Who is in?
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:31:06] <mistabell>	ah, that would be cool
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:31:13] <j3camero>	Anyone else?
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:31:45] <j3camero>	What I will do is open the account creation form for five minutes, and you can all get your acounts. Then I will close it once more. Everyone let me know when they're ready.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:31:53] <j3camero>	That means you a1k0n :-)
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:31:58] <mistabell>	cheaters!  jk
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:32:15] <Zannick>	aye aye
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:33:16] <j3camero>	Okay the account creation form is open.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:33:32] <j3camero>	Go go and create thy accounts, valued beta testers!
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:33:38] <amstan>	j3camero: a1k0n is afk
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:33:40] <amstan>	you were too late
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:34:13] <amstan>	j3camero: send him an email to a secret url
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:34:36] <j3camero>	a1k0n javagamer jmpespxoreax mistabell zerd jmcarthur Mathnerd314 Zannick: The account creation form has been opened for a few minutes. Create an account!
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:34:55] <Zannick>	mine is up
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:36:17] <mistabell>	so, I just need to upload a zip of MyBot.java?
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:36:30] <mistabell>	don't need to make a jar or anything?
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:36:42] <amstan>	mistabell: you don't have to hurry with that, just make sure you have an account
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:36:55] <mistabell>	cool
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:37:04] <amstan>	mistabell: upload the starter package, it's a valid submission
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:40:13] <j3camero>	amstan: almost 20,000 pageviews today, and it's not even open yet. Wow. Do you realize that's 40% of the entire total pageviews for Google AI Challenge RPS?
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:40:25] <amstan>	lol
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:41:06] <mistabell>	Hmm.  I tried 2 submits.  Not sure why it bounced back
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:41:13] <mistabell>	Most likely user error.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:41:22] <amstan>	mistabell: you get emails with feedback
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:41:31] <j3camero>	I hope this one explodes bigger than the last one once Reddit gets hold of it on Friday/Saturday. Except I also hope that the web server holds up.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:41:57] <j3camero>	mistabell: let us know if you get an email telling you your entry compiled successfully or unsuccessfully.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:42:01] <mistabell>	error "The auto-compile environment could not locate your main code file.  You must include exactly one file with one of the following names:"
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:42:08] <j3camero>	lol pwned
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:42:12] <mistabell>	I send one zip with just MyBot.java and MyBot.class
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:42:16] <mistabell>	and I sent one zip with the entire folder
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:42:19] <mistabell>	they compile on my machine ok
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:42:26] <j3camero>	Hmm that's bad.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:42:30] <mistabell>	both bounced back
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:42:43] <amstan>	mistabell: so.. same format as the package you downloaded?
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:42:50] <mistabell>	One sec.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:42:58] <j3camero>	Can you fire me an email telling me more? cameron.jp@gmail.com. I will get it tomorrow.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:43:23] <mistabell>	Sure thing
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:43:25] <amstan>	i was about to say post it on the forums... but i forgot this was secret
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:43:25] <amstan>	lol
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:44:04] <mistabell>	cool, email sent with the zips I tried.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:44:10] <mistabell>	hopefully something obvious there
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:44:45] <j3camero>	Okay cool I will look at them now actually.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:44:58] <amstan>	j3camero: tip: use your @ai-contest email
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:45:26] <j3camero>	Oh I know what's wrong. You need to get a real computer.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:45:30] <mistabell>	lol
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:45:32] <mistabell>	macified it?
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:45:37] <j3camero>	Oh yeah. I forgot I had that ai-contest.com email.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:45:38] <j3camero>	hehe
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:45:42] <Zannick>	haha
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:46:20] <j3camero>	Yeah it's a problem with the zip files created by mac computers. I knew there was an issue before, but only when I looked at your files did I realize the cause. I will fix it soon don't worry.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:46:29] <Zannick>	reddit already got a hold of you guys last week, that's how i found it
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:46:29] <mistabell>	cool
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:46:49] <amstan>	Zannick: yes.. they did, we were unprepared too
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:46:56] <mistabell>	good thing you beta'd it =]
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:47:18] <j3camero>	Zannick: yeah I had a blog post go to the front page of Reddit yesterday. This morning, I masturbated to my Google Analytics page.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:47:26] <mistabell>	haha
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:47:32] <mistabell>	that's where I heard - reddit
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:47:33] <Zannick>	hahaha
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:48:02] <j3camero>	Most of the contest's traffic comes from Reddit.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:48:42] <j3camero>	Although we do have other large sources.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:48:48] <j3camero>	It's all on the Google Analytics page.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:49:14] <j3camero>	Okay I am actually going to bed now. Last call for accounts.
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:49:47] <mistabell>	nite, see you guys fri
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:50:05] <j3camero>	Tomorrow I will be around.
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[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:55:36] Join	antimatroid has joined this channel (83d90607@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.217.6.7).
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:57:58] <amstan>	antimatroid: hey
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:58:55] <antimatroid>	amstran: hello
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:58:58] <antimatroid>	wonderful game, I love it!
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:59:18] Quit	Zannick has left this server (Read error: Operation timed out).
[Monday 06 September 2010] [23:59:24] <antimatroid>	did you read my comment about sending multiple fleets?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:00:09] <amstan>	i have read many comments, let me look it up
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:02:15] <amstan>	antimatroid: i am not sure, i'll leave this for jeff
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:03:00] <antimatroid>	yep, I personally don't mind, in fact it'd probably be an advtange, but if too may peoples bots were crippled it might be a bit of a disaster
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:03:23] <amstan>	so... hold on... you have like 7 points here
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:03:33] <amstan>	what are you referring to?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:04:04] <antimatroid>	yeah sorry, the one about sending say 10 fleets from planet i to planet j as 10 separate fleets rather than one fleet
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:05:01] <amstan>	you mean s/fleets from planet/ships from planet/g
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:05:09] <amstan>	right?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:06:04] <antimatroid>	ha, sorry, Yes, say you want to send 10 ships from planet i to planet j on turn t, then you could do this as 10 separate fleets in the one turn.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:06:23] <amstan>	you might want to correct that in your posts, you have that error there too
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:06:31] <antimatroid>	cheers
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:06:38] <amstan>	well.. i guess that depends on how time passes in the game
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:06:46] <amstan>	i am not actually familiar with the game mechanics
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:06:58] <amstan>	how does time go by?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:07:03] <amstan>	realtime? or is it turn based?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:07:20] <antimatroid>	turn based, each player has 1 second to make a turn
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:07:52] <amstan>	i think this should be fixed in the engine level then
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:08:17] <amstan>	if it notices 2 or more groups of ships heading for the same planet, to merge them before sending this info to the other playet
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:08:19] <amstan>	player*
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:09:27] <antimatroid>	that would be my suggestion, otherwise perhaps explicitly stating to people that fleets can be sent like that as a precaution
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:11:45] <rwa>	anybody home?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:12:21] <amstan>	rwa: yes.. i think jeff is ZZzzzing
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:12:24] <amstan>	rwa: use http://ai-contest.com/register.php
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:14:03] <antimatroid>	i thought registration was closed atm?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:14:14] <rwa>	I got an error about registration not being open
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:14:37] <amstan>	maybe he did close it..
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:14:55] <antimatroid>	rwa: wait a few days, it should be good then, you can start playing around with other things in the mean time
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:15:18] <amstan>	rwa: it was just intended as a closed beta for us, to fix a few bugs in releasing
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:15:23] <amstan>	s/in/before
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:15:58] <rwa>	that's fine, I had a message on the forum about helping test...
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:16:32] <amstan>	yeah, i saw it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:16:38] <amstan>	i think jeff did go to sleep
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:16:49] <amstan>	he has work tomorrow
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:16:56] Quit	Zannick has left this server (Client Quit).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:17:40] <rwa>	that's fine.  I'm open to helping if the chance arises again.
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:19:30] <antimatroid>	have you guys even tried playing around with the symmetric 3 planet case for this game
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:19:34] <antimatroid>	i love how complicated it is
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:20:00] <amstan>	oh man.. i should try to play this
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:20:32] <amstan>	it's definitely another perspective once i know the game
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:20:47] <amstan>	i will definitely loose the game too
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:21:04] <amstan>	;)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:24:49] <rwa>	antimatroid, I did that briefly, yes
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:25:30] <antimatroid>	rwa: did you even work out perfect play even in the 3 planet case?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:25:44] <antimatroid>	we're still trying to get it correct aha
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:26:00] <rwa>	antimatroid:  nope.  It might be a fun exercise but I'm not sure the result will be terribly useful for the full game.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:27:34] <antimatroid>	no, we approached it for that, but in the end it was just a fun little exercise
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:27:40] <antimatroid>	was/is*
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:50:56] <rwa>	http://www.ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=390&p=2392#p2392
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:51:00] <rwa>	am I making sense there?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:51:29] <a1k0n>	seriously i think it doesn't even matter which order you evaluate it in
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:52:01] <a1k0n>	except for the case of the one extra ship required to take over the planet, and i can't tell whether that's a bug or not
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:52:03] <Zannick>	off-by-one distinctions, mostly
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:52:22] <Zannick>	a1k0n: that was a bug that has been fixed
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:52:54] <a1k0n>	so if the planet has X, and you attack with Y, then there are |X-Y| dudes left, right?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:52:56] <rwa>	there definitely is (or was) a bug relating to an extra ship needed
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:53:16] <Zannick>	i do not know whether the bugfix for that extra ship has gone into the .zip packages yet or not
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:53:19] <rwa>	you can see this by sending 1 ship to a neutral planet with 0 population.  It remains neutral with zero population.  That can't be right.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:53:42] <a1k0n>	yeah.  it's amusing that the code to calculate it iterates by subtracting by 1, rather than just.. subtracting
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:53:43] <rwa>	let me try... I have a test case for it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:53:43] <Zannick>	but i submitted that patch and it was accepted
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:53:56] <antimatroid>	rwa: the engine you have is still broken
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:54:04] <antimatroid>	it's the online engine that's been fixed
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:54:12] <rwa>	ah, ok
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:54:53] <antimatroid>	i posted in another thread about how the outcome should be calculated for neutral planets
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:55:10] <Zannick>	only the client-side engine had that 1-extra needed bug
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:56:18] <antimatroid>	http://www.ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=392  my last post there explains how the engine should be treating it (I think, I had an error there earlier)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:57:07] <antimatroid>	the case where a planet is already owned by a player is straight forward, add incoming amount from that player, less the other players incoming, if it's less than 0, fix that and change the ownership
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:57:41] <a1k0n>	so if planet is owned by nobody and has 1 ship and you send 1 ship to it, do you get it with 0 or do you not get it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:58:02] <Zannick>	a1k0n: you do not get it, it goes to 0.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:58:09] <a1k0n>	i assume you don't, which is what antimatroid's post says
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:58:09] <antimatroid>	not get it, statement says ownership of a planet doesn't change when ship count is 0
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:58:10] <a1k0n>	makes sense.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:58:37] <a1k0n>	it should be interesting to see how the tactical play works out
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:59:03] <a1k0n>	i just watched a duel between bullybot and prospectorbot (which are essentially the same thing) and it's painfully obvious how much room to make it better there is
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:59:26] <a1k0n>	like dude could have fended off an obvious attack from the opposite side of the map so easily
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:59:29] <Zannick>	watch any game Max plays, on the website
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:59:30] <antimatroid>	i do hope the top bots aren't all pretty much the same again
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:59:40] <antimatroid>	did you guys see my post about the possible exploit?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:59:45] <a1k0n>	i like how some of those bost just spam dudes
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:59:52] <a1k0n>	nope
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [00:59:54] <Zannick>	it is quite unlike the example bots
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:00:10] <antimatroid>	if you want to send 10 ships from p1 to p2 currently, you can do that as 10 different fleets
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:00:20] <antimatroid>	i'm sure you can see where that leads
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:00:21] <a1k0n>	right
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:00:32] <Zannick>	antimatroid: for what it's worth, i having been trying to think of ways to avoiding checking the entire fleet list for every planet or whatnot
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:00:38] <Zannick>	s/having/have/
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:00:43] <a1k0n>	yeah, unless it coalesces fleets automatically
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:01:02] <a1k0n>	then there are only N^2 possible fleets per timestep...
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:01:03] <Zannick>	it currently doesn't, but that isn't terribly difficult
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:01:07] <antimatroid>	Zannick: I haven't checked the fleet vector, is it adding new fleets to the end? or is it ordered based on flight time remaining?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:01:13] <antimatroid>	otherwise you can just read from the back
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:01:28] <antimatroid>	and update your fleets such that you have one per arrival time or whatever
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:01:32] <Zannick>	right, so i can easily find the new fleets
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:01:39] <a1k0n>	there are some obvious bugs in the games on the website too, like, a planet that was taken over with 74 ships one turn will immediately turn around and send 74 ships out, which is impossible
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:01:48] <Zannick>	but what about the ones in transit? i have to do something with them to "remember"
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:01:51] <Zannick>	and that isn't obvious
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:02:27] <Zannick>	huh? if there are 74 ships immediately after taking the planet, you can immediately send them all out
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:02:28] <antimatroid>	no, it's not, i was devestated about not being able to iterate through priority queues
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:02:40] <antimatroid>	Zannick: not as you take it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:02:56] <Zannick>	ahaha
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:02:58] <a1k0n>	no, it should have lost like 20 of them
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:03:03] <a1k0n>	i'm trying to find the game now
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:03:15] <a1k0n>	but yeah max just spams dudes everywhere, damn
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:03:25] <Zannick>	and well, too.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:03:37] <Zannick>	i mean, not perfect
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:03:56] <a1k0n>	forms a flow network of sorts
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:04:12] <a1k0n>	and then the game randomly terminates
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:04:22] <Zannick>	game ends after fixed number of turns
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:04:29] <a1k0n>	ahh
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:04:33] <Zannick>	winner is the one with the most ships
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:04:36] <antimatroid>	random termination might have been an illegal move also
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:04:44] <antimatroid>	if you make an illegal move, you love
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:04:46] <antimatroid>	lose*
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:04:56] <antimatroid>	although if both bots make an illegal move on the last turn, engine asplodes
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:04:58] <Zannick>	no, illegal move will make you lose, but the visualizer will remove all your planets and fleets
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:05:02] <rwa>	is a timeout really a DQ for your bot in general?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:05:14] <antimatroid>	yes, i got owned on that in the last competition
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:05:15] <a1k0n>	yeah, if it's anything like last year
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:05:17] <antimatroid>	be very careful
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:05:23] <a1k0n>	use setitimer, or equivalent
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:05:30] <rwa>	why isn't it just a loss of game?  that seems far more sane
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:05:41] <antimatroid>	i don't know, ask the organisers
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:05:47] <antimatroid>	i have tried and tried to convince them to change that
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:06:02] <antimatroid>	i didn't even realise it was dq till it happened halfway through the tournament
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:06:03] <Zannick>	i think the idea is that if you leave up a bot that times out every game and you lose every game...you go way down in ranking
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:06:21] <Zannick>	so they suspend you, so you fix the problem and upload a new bot
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:06:39] <Zannick>	i don't speak for them, though, so i don't know
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:06:41] <antimatroid>	Zannick: if you time out on even one game during final tournament you are disqualified
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:07:13] <Zannick>	oh, ouch
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:07:34] <antimatroid>	if people wanted to troll the server by slowing it down, it'd keep making moves just before 1 second, not exceed the time limit
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:07:42] <antimatroid>	i think the rule makes no sense, but i don't set the rules
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:08:00] <rwa>	that rule makes no sense to me either.  a TO should be a game forfeit only.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:08:08] <antimatroid>	anyway, i've had enough of uni, i'm riding home
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:08:10] <amstan>	antimatroid: if we do notice stuff like that we are free to investigate the code
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:08:25] <antimatroid>	notice stuff like what?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:08:37] <amstan>	antimatroid: like bottom players consuming lots of time
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:09:08] <antimatroid>	yeah, okay, but please, do reconsider the dq on exceeding the time limit rule, it's very harsh
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:09:26] <antimatroid>	and i don't think it really hurts that much if people have the odd time out lose
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:09:48] <amstan>	i forgot what made us do that
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:10:39] <antimatroid>	sillyness? :P
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:10:46] <antimatroid>	anyway, I'll be on again once I'm home
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:11:04] <amstan>	by that time i'll be Zzzzing too
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:11:28] Quit	antimatroid has left this server (Quit: Page closed).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:15:17] <rwa>	pretty early here
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:18:31] Join	greghaynes has joined this channel (~greghayne@kroker.greghaynes.net).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:22:47] <amstan>	greghaynes: invite your friends over here
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:26:45] <rwa>	are you guys all UW students?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:26:46] Join	jesusaurus2 has joined this channel (jesusaur@firefly.cat.pdx.edu).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:27:05] 	 * greghaynes waves to jesusaurus2 
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:27:14] 	 * jesusaurus2 waves back
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:27:25] <greghaynes>	Welcome the *.cat.pdx.edu wave!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:27:36] Nick	jesusaurus2 is now known as jesusaurus.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:29:20] <amstan>	greghaynes: cat?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:29:55] <jesusaurus>	Computer Action Team!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:29:57] <greghaynes>	Yea, a student group that admins the cs dept tech
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:31:28] <amstan>	greghaynes: so... same as csclub.uwaterloo.ca
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:31:36] <greghaynes>	Probably
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:32:08] <greghaynes>	Are the languages the same as last year, where youall are trying to acomodate as many as possible?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:32:26] <amstan>	we always were trying to accommodate as many as possible
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:32:39] <greghaynes>	Sweet
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:33:14] <a1k0n>	good, cuz i'm doing mine in REXX this year
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:33:31] <greghaynes>	I have a request for maude as a language
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:33:35] <amstan>	a1k0n, greghaynes: please see this topic for info about new languages: http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=414
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:34:04] <amstan>	you can request as many as you want, but it's improbable that it'll be implemented if we have no starter package or no information about them
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:34:17] <amstan>	a1k0n: oh yeah, what did that guy do? lol
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:34:30] <a1k0n>	i don't think he ever entered anything, after all that
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:34:39] <amstan>	i think he was trying c++
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:35:02] <amstan>	i hope we don't see accoun/dress this term
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:35:06] <amstan>	what was his other name?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:35:16] <amstan>	usernam
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:35:27] <Zannick>	there aren't exactly bonus points for using obscure languages
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:36:14] <greghaynes>	Yep, some people apparently feel most comfortable with them though
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:36:27] <Zannick>	yeah
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:36:37] <greghaynes>	I like this system of allowing users to submit the work for new languages
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:36:44] <a1k0n>	http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=168
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:36:59] <Zannick>	personally, i'm surprised the C compile part of the server code doesn't include assembly files
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:37:02] <Zannick>	:3
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:37:03] <Zannick>	>.>
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:37:28] <greghaynes>	...that should be trivial if theres a C system already
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:37:42] <Zannick>	i think it's just adding .s and .S to the list of extension
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:37:48] <greghaynes>	heh, yep
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:37:57] <amstan>	Zannick: issue report time?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:38:00] Join	millertime has joined this channel (~millertim@rita.cat.pdx.edu).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:38:11] 	 * greghaynes waves to millertime 
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:38:17] <millertime>	:)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:38:17] <Zannick>	:P
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:38:28] <Zannick>	i *guess* i could go put together a patch
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:38:38] <Zannick>	i am not advocating nor using asm, myself
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:38:41] <greghaynes>	Maybe I should connect through a pdx.edu box just so I can represent...
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:38:45] 	 * millertime waves at jesusaurus
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:39:23] <jesusaurus>	ohai
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:39:26] <Zannick>	also i am tired, good night
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:39:35] <amstan>	good night
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:39:49] 	 * amstan is rediscovering how cool it is to stay up late
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:40:06] <a1k0n>	i'm going to ask you about being a google SRE at some point Zannick cuz that's what i turned down
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:40:19] <jesusaurus>	amstan, whereabouts are you?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:40:24] <Zannick>	a1k0n: cool
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:40:28] <amstan>	jesusaurus: uwaterloo
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:40:34] <jesusaurus>	cool
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:41:08] <amstan>	i'm a close friend of jeff's, the main organizer
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:42:22] <greghaynes>	amstan: What time zone are you in?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:42:33] <amstan>	greghaynes: EST
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:42:38] <greghaynes>	ah
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:42:43] <amstan>	greghaynes: remember hyperwulf? i was thinking about using it here, to give updates on the rankings
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:42:50] Error	Error: You need to specify a message.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:42:57] <greghaynes>	There would be a lot of updates...
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:43:03] <greghaynes>	Maybe changes to the top 10 or so
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:43:07] <amstan>	greghaynes: yes, of course
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:44:04] <greghaynes>	Its nice that youall added portland state to the organizations list already :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:44:35] <amstan>	greghaynes: yes, one of my jobs: http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:44:38] <amstan>	11 pages long
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:44:42] <amstan>	13*
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:45:09] Join	antimatroid has joined this channel (~Nick@85.308.dsl.mel.iprimus.net.au).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:45:13] <greghaynes>	Nice
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:45:43] <greghaynes>	amstan: Do you still work on hyperserv?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:46:02] <amstan>	yes, assuming i'll have time
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:46:18] <greghaynes>	We should have a common json api
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:47:10] <amstan>	i was thinking about that, i did not start http work yet though, no need has arose
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:48:18] <greghaynes>	Ah, well youd get a lot of free client software if you did ;)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:53:03] Topic	The channel topic is "Official Google AI Challenge | All Your Planets are belong to us. | http://ai-contest.com/ | Contest will start Friday September 10th. | Good Luck!".
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [01:53:03] Topic	The topic was set by amstan on 2010-09-06 23:00.
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:30:57] <Palmik>	Hi guys
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:34:51] <rwa>	hi
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:39:55] <antimatroid>	afternoon
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:48:10] <Palmik>	I have a question about the c++ starter's package if you do not mind. The questions are about line 12 in this snippet (c++ startter's package main loop) http://codepad.org/zX0ABEpy 1. What does the line 12. mean (I know what it does, maybe more precise question would be, what does it  mean if current_line starts with "go")? Can there be only one of these lines, ie. can I assume that only one line will pass this
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:48:12] <Palmik>	criteria (current_line.length() >= 2 && current_line.substr(0, 2) == "go") in the whole loop?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:50:22] <antimatroid>	Palmik: you really don't even need to worry about that function
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:50:52] <Palmik>	The reason I am asking this question is whether I could simply pass the playingField to the constructor of my bot and not care whether it can change during the while loop or it would be safer to update it with each iteration passing the criteria
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:51:47] <Palmik>	I guess the second (updating) is the way to go
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:51:56] <antimatroid>	i'm not entirely sure what you mean
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:52:47] <antimatroid>	is playingField your own object for storing data?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:52:59] <antimatroid>	you can get away with global variables to just store information in if you want to
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:53:07] <Palmik>	it's planetWars object as shown in the codepad snippet :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:53:13] <Palmik>	I just renamed it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:53:20] <antimatroid>	oh yes, sorry :P
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:53:32] <Palmik>	*PlanetWars
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:53:44] <Palmik>	no problem :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:54:10] <antimatroid>	my code has a rainbow unicorn attack and charlie the unicorn theme :P (planets == candy mountains, ships == unicorns, fleets == rainbow attacks etc.)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:54:35] <Palmik>	xD
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:54:47] <greghaynes>	If you want to instantitate a class per set of planet data (when "go" is sent) just reinstantiate the class each time the if(...) section is true and dont worry about if its required?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:54:48] <Palmik>	I'm not sure but I guess that the playingField is updated after each turn, am I right?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:55:11] <antimatroid>	yes
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:55:21] <antimatroid>	I tend to just leave that function alone, but barely touch playingField
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:56:08] <Palmik>	Ok, thank you guys, that is precisely what i wanted to know :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:56:17] <greghaynes>	Are there any simulators floating around yet?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:56:43] <antimatroid>	greghaynes: you mean for playing across all maps?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:56:58] <antimatroid>	write your own? I just use bach files for running games rather than a command window
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:56:59] <Palmik>	someone released bash script on the forums
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:57:28] <greghaynes>	Nice
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:57:36] <Palmik>	http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=395&sid=501688b98b541497e7d9b6f5e9c308b1#p2395
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:58:42] <antimatroid>	i hate the timing of this contest
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:58:49] <antimatroid>	it's in the second half of my busiest semester ever :(
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [02:59:01] <antimatroid>	goodbye marks
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [03:00:28] <Palmik>	:D
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [03:01:21] <Palmik>	I wonder if someone is going to employ some machine learning techniques, like ann or something along these lines :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [03:02:17] <antimatroid>	i love how open it is for ideas to use
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [03:02:26] <antimatroid>	last competition it was pretty much given what you were going to use if you wanted to place high
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [03:46:29] <antimatroid>	hi fry
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:44:02] Topic	The channel topic is "Official Google AI Challenge | All your space are belong to us. | http://ai-contest.com/ | Contest will start Friday September 10th. | Good Luck!".
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:44:02] Topic	The topic was set by amstan on 2010-09-07 01:53.
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:44:31] <Palmik>	on a third
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:45:28] <Palmik>	*on thir thought, even the "battle between attackers" would be easily generalised for more then 1v1 using the eliminating method from jmcarthur
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:49:54] <antimatroid>	what's the number of neutral ships left in a 3 way battle where the ships don't reach 0
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:49:58] <antimatroid>	does that have problems?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:51:00] <antimatroid>	so say neutral planet has 10 ships, 2 arrive from player 1, and 3 from player 2
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:52:03] <Palmik>	which one of the three is 3 way battle? The jmcarthur's?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:52:19] <jmcarthur>	i keep revising my summary that i linked to a few minutes ago, btw
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:52:20] <antimatroid>	the one where there is a three way battle
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:52:22] <jmcarthur>	i keep finding things wrong
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:52:26] <antimatroid>	rather than sequentially battling
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:52:42] <jmcarthur>	7N left in that example
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:52:46] Away	You are no longer marked as being away.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:52:55] <amstan>	yay, more people
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:52:56] <antimatroid>	jmcarthur: it's amazing isn't it, you think you have it worked out fine, then bam, you're completely lost again
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:53:15] <amstan>	are you guys still thinking about the 3 planet map?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:53:29] <antimatroid>	the case with battling a neutral
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:53:34] <antimatroid>	http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=419&p=2419#p2419
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:53:35] <jmcarthur>	antimatroid: it's the players team up against neutral first version that keeps giving me trouble
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:53:52] <antimatroid>	my example?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:53:54] <antimatroid>	works fine :P
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:54:16] <jmcarthur>	antimatroid: i'm trying to work out a simple formula for how many ships the winner loses when the winner is a player
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:54:25] <jmcarthur>	i have managed that for the other two, i think
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:54:38] <antimatroid>	jmcarthur abs(F1-F2)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:55:05] <jmcarthur>	antimatroid: that's not true when neutral outnumbers the losing player, is it?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:55:26] <jmcarthur>	antimatroid: also, that's for the number of ships remaining, not the number of ships lost :P
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:55:49] <jmcarthur>	trivial distinction i know. just being pedantic there
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:56:59] <antimatroid>	oh, shit, yeah, hmmm I don't know
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:57:04] <antimatroid>	this is surprisingly tricky
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:57:46] <antimatroid>	i'll let you deal with it, it's officially 2am and i have class at 9am
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:58:05] <jmpespxoreax>	damn, idled in this channel for weeks waiting for traffic, and I missed all the traffic + the beta accounts
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:58:22] <jmpespxoreax>	hello everyone
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [11:59:31] <jmcarthur>	jmpespxoreax: hello :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:04:03] <phreeza>	amstan: whats the 3 planet map thing?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:04:38] <amstan>	phreeza: i am actually not familiar with the game, ask around
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:04:50] <amstan>	i think it's when each of the players starts on their own planet
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:04:55] <amstan>	and there's a planet in the middle
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:07:00] <phreeza>	amstan: ah i see, thats one situation where the problem they were discussing might arise i guess
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:07:00] <jmcarthur>	i want to get started on my bot but i should really get some real work done
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:12:24] <jmpespxoreax>	"spare time" is key
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:13:55] <Palmik>	jmcarthur, I think you should add the costs to winner for the case when the neutrals are the winner :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:15:33] <jmcarthur>	Palmik: costs to neutral, you mean?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:16:09] <Palmik>	yep, I mean... they can win as well, can't they? :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:16:44] <jmcarthur>	yes
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:16:53] <jmcarthur>	i'll do that real quick before settling down to work a bit
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:23:45] <jmcarthur>	Palmik: http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=419&p=2419#p2419
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:25:00] <Palmik>	yep, neat :)
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:32:57] <seigen>	hello?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:32:59] <seigen>	anyone home?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:33:21] <Javache>	hi seigen
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:33:23] <Palmik>	hi
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:33:36] <seigen>	hey y'all
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:33:43] <seigen>	i've been playin around with it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:33:46] <seigen>	the starter packages, i mean
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:34:12] <seigen>	I was curious what people are doing for debugging on python?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:36:38] <jmcarthur>	awesome! http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:36:58] <jmcarthur>	from http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=424&p=2431#p2431
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:37:15] <seigen>	sweet!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:37:44] <Javache>	that looks cool
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:38:45] <jmcarthur>	it's nice to be able to watch your bot battle other bots in real time, for sure
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:38:51] <seigen>	if that works, that makes my python/debugging question irrelevant
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:38:57] <jmcarthur>	:)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:39:11] <jmcarthur>	it worked in the last contest
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:39:22] <jmcarthur>	this is just a new version of something from then
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:39:52] <danielvf>	TCP bot is cool
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:40:34] <danielvf>	*server
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:44:05] <jmcarthur>	so the server is ubuntu 8.04, iirc
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:44:19] <jmcarthur>	the version of ghc that comes with that is 6.8.2... :(
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:44:43] <amstan>	jmcarthur: how easy would be to upgrade?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:44:54] <jmcarthur>	amstan: probably not too hard, but i'm not an ubuntu guy
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:45:14] <Javache>	there exists an alternative ppa with some recent ghc
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:45:14] <amstan>	if you can find a deb that just works on 8.04, we'll give it a look
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:45:16] <amstan>	yeah
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:45:20] <amstan>	Javache: but for 8.04?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:45:29] <Javache>	amstan: no clue
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:45:47] <amstan>	that's the problem, ppas are usually even more up to date than the distros themselves
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:46:00] <amstan>	they might rely on dependencies that are outdated in 8.04
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:46:18] <Javache>	https://launchpad.net/~justinbogner/+archive/haskell-platform
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:46:24] <jmcarthur>	amstan: the haskell platform would first require a ghc 6.12.3 binary <http://haskell.org/ghc/download_ghc_6_12_3.html#distros> followed by building the platform using it with the instructions at <http://hackage.haskell.org/platform/linux.html>
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:46:45] <jmcarthur>	that's for a distro-agnostic build
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:46:51] <a1k0n>	holy shit, dhartmei already has a planetwars server?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:46:58] <amstan>	a1k0n: i know, eh?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:47:02] <jmcarthur>	a1k0n: yeah that's awesome isn't it?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:47:14] <a1k0n>	i guess it prolly wasn't too hard to adapt the tron one
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:47:22] <a1k0n>	most excellent
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:47:33] <Javache>	anyone got a clue how to run a java program with that tcp-program?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:48:18] <Javache>	execv: java -jar dist/PlanetWars.jar: failed
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:48:18] <amstan>	Javache: i think he has a wrapper
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:49:10] <seigen>	i just put mine up there
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:49:16] <seigen>	i got a game against someone...
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:49:17] <a1k0n>	oh his exec code is pretty lame
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:49:21] <a1k0n>	it doesn't allow any commandline args
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:50:00] <a1k0n>	Javache: make a file with #!/bin/sh and that commandline, chmod 755 it, and then run that with tcp
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:50:39] <jmcarthur>	amstan: if you guys got cabal-install installed with a recent version of ghc (should come with the haskell platorm, iirc), would you guys be willing to install library dependencies on request? it would be a simple matter of `cabal install packagename' for packages not requiring C libs. idiomatic haskell is fairly dependency heavy
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:50:48] <Javache>	a1k0n: yep, that works
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:50:54] <Javache>	strange, i thought i tried that
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:50:58] <jmcarthur>	i hate to bring all this up again, like last time
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:51:01] <amstan>	jmcarthur: probably
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:51:10] <a1k0n>	Javache: it was trying to execute the file named "java -jar ..."
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:51:11] <amstan>	jmcarthur: i would recomend getting a VM, installing ubuntu server on there
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:51:18] <amstan>	and then try to get ghc working as you like it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:51:19] <Javache>	a1k0n: i know, i know
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:51:21] <a1k0n>	anyway i gotta go to work
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:51:22] <jmcarthur>	okay
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:51:25] <Javache>	i tried the thingie with run.sh too
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:51:26] <amstan>	jmcarthur: then write us some instructions
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:51:28] <jmcarthur>	amstan: i will do that
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:51:38] <amstan>	that would be the best way ihmo
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:51:48] <jmcarthur>	jaspervdj: any requests as i do this? ^^
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:51:55] <seigen>	anyone know if the benzedrine.cx site requires registration?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:52:12] <jmcarthur>	jaspervdj: i could go ahead and include some extra libs in the instructions if you know you will want them
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:53:14] <amstan>	seigen: ask danielvf
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:53:19] <amstan>	seigen: ask dhartmei
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:53:23] <amstan>	not daniel, sorry
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:53:23] <jmcarthur>	seigen: i don't think so, but my memory could be bad
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:53:42] <jmcarthur>	seigen: i think it's just whatever name you report to the server with the client
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:53:49] <danielvf>	lol
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:53:55] <danielvf>	Yup, not me
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:54:02] <seigen>	ok.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:54:04] <seigen>	Thanks!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:54:11] <seigen>	i'm playing dhartmei right now, apparently :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:54:22] <dhartmei>	it's still only the starter kit :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:54:24] <jmcarthur>	amstan: 32 bit or 64 bit?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:54:35] <amstan>	jmcarthur: i think 64
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:54:38] <jmcarthur>	okay
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:54:40] <dhartmei>	i have no idea for a strategy yet :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:54:42] <seigen>	haha
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:54:52] <amstan>	i really have to ask jeff for some ssh access to the servers
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:54:52] <seigen>	does it run forever, or what's the turn limit?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:55:03] <dhartmei>	1000 turns, but i guess that's too much.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:55:07] <jaspervdj>	jmcarthur: Haskell libs? please include vector ^^
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:55:09] <seigen>	looks like it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:55:16] <jmcarthur>	jaspervdj: yeah i was planning that already :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:56:52] <jmcarthur>	i really wish it was practical to have GHC HEAD installed as well since it's supposed to have so many improvements to things like fusion, but i think that would be a bit much to have side by side with 6.12.3
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:57:30] <phreeza>	which of the example bots is strongest would you say?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:59:08] <Palmik>	dhartmei, thanks for your work on the tcp server :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:59:31] <jmcarthur>	dhartmei: oh you're here! you rock
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [12:59:54] <amstan>	dhartmei: i added you to the medal of honour group for your work on the tcp
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:00:10] <amstan>	dhartmei: do you want a special rank?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:00:32] <Palmik>	wow, I did not think the bot from starter's package would hold for so long :D
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:00:39] <jmcarthur>	oh, another question... is the server still using wall clock time, or is it using cpu time?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:00:40] <seigen>	woot, i beat dhartmei's basic ;)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:00:44] <dhartmei>	thanks, can't think of a rank :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:00:48] <madsy>	Okay, I understand the recording data now. It's fugly ;-)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:00:49] <Palmik>	perhaps I!m playing against bot from starter's package :P
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:01:23] <amstan>	actually.. nvm, i cannot add ranks
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:01:26] <seigen>	dhartmei: do you know how long it takes to refresh the ratings page?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:02:08] <Palmik>	You LOSE against dhartmei noo :D
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:02:21] <amstan>	can you guys give me a link pls?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:02:25] <amstan>	i wanna see
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:02:39] <Palmik>	http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:02:42] <amstan>	thanks
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:02:52] <seigen>	i lost against him when i ctrl-c'd
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:02:54] <seigen>	:(
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:03:00] <Palmik>	instructions are on top of the c file in comments
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:03:18] <dhartmei>	seigen: 5 minute cron job
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:03:39] <amstan>	dhartmei: what's your backend written in?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:03:54] <Palmik>	dhartmei, perhaps someone already said that, but View Game gives 404
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:03:59] <dhartmei>	C++, the server.tar.gz contains everything
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:04:13] <amstan>	including the webserver?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:04:33] <dhartmei>	ah, the cgi's for the stats? i'll add them, if you're interested
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:04:51] <seigen>	dhartmei: also, is this using the recently patched engine?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:04:57] <Palmik>	I guess you are storing them anyway, so it will not hurt :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:05:00] <seigen>	the fix for simultaneously arriving fleets, etc?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:05:05] <amstan>	dhartmei: that's fine, you don't have to
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:05:07] <jmpespxoreax>	I can't find the http server at benzedrine.cx
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:05:23] <jmcarthur>	amstan: is --prefix=/usr/local preferred for a source build on the server?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:05:25] <Palmik>	seigen, it's fixed already?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:05:41] <amstan>	jmcarthur: that would be fine
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:05:45] <amstan>	jmcarthur: just go with defaults
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:06:05] <seigen>	Palmik: i saw a patch on the google-code page.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:06:17] <jmcarthur>	defaults are usually in conflict with package manager ideals, i think
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:06:30] <amstan>	oh
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:06:34] <Javache>	dhartmei: i would be interested in the cgi's
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:06:35] <seigen>	Also, i made some extensions to the python starter package that should speed it up a bit -- mostly turned the for loops into list comprehensions
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:06:44] <Javache>	i'm planning on setting up a small server for our computer group
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:06:49] <jmcarthur>	like default would overwrite the managed ghc 6.8.2 and stuff, probably
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:07:03] <amstan>	jmcarthur: uninstall it first then
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:07:22] <amstan>	i don't think we'll ever have debs if it's so out of date
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:07:37] <jmcarthur>	okay
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:07:52] <amstan>	is anyone interested in being a mod for the forums or an op in here?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:08:04] <dhartmei>	Javache: added
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:08:06] <jmcarthur>	i could be an op here
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:08:13] <jmcarthur>	i don't want mod forums though
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:08:15] <amstan>	jmcarthur: welcome to the job
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:08:23] <Javache>	i could op here for the european timezones ;)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:09:01] <seigen>	but are there any other Python programmers so far?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:09:03] Mode	ChanServ gives channel operator privileges to jmcarthur.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:09:04] <seigen>	i'm thinking no :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:09:17] <amstan>	jmcarthur: i'm not sure if that's persistent yet
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:09:20] <Javache>	dhartmei: do you by chance know how to compile your server on ubuntu 9.04
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:09:43] <Javache>	i keep getting an error that arc4random is undefined, but the necessary includes seems to be done
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:09:45] <dhartmei>	just 'make' doesn't work? :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:09:55] <Javache>	nope
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:10:01] <dhartmei>	ah, let me check, i think that's a bsd'ism
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:10:05] <Javache>	server.cpp:207: error: ‘arc4random’ was not declared in this scope
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:10:19] <Javache>	man arc4random works, so it should be on my server too
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:10:45] <dhartmei>	should be stdlib.h
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:11:06] <jmcarthur>	amstan: i don't know how to tell if it's persistent either
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:11:10] <dhartmei>	it doesn't have to be strongly random, it's only used for map picking etc. srand(time(0)); rand() % ... would do, too
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:11:33] <jmcarthur>	it'd rather be able to deop and just op as needed so i don't gather extra attention
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:11:52] <amstan>	jmcarthur: it's persistent now, usually you /cycle
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:11:54] <a1k0n>	lrand48()
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:12:10] <dhartmei>	hey a1k0n, nice to see you back! :)
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:12:33] <a1k0n>	same to you!  can't believe you have a server done already
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:12:46] <jmcarthur>	okay :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:12:57] <seigen>	dhartmei, nice work on the server, that rocks.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:13:42] <jmcarthur>	a1k0n: i read my backlog a bit. i'm glad to see that the last contest had such positive results for you!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:14:13] <a1k0n>	pretty mind-blowing, yeah.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:14:28] <jmpespxoreax>	it was a good skills showcase
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:15:27] <a1k0n>	i feel like i definitely have to at least show something for this challenge but i don't have any ideas yet.  luckily the deadline is almost two months away
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:15:30] <madsy>	Another possible issue. Does the planet ship production happen before or after an attack?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:15:39] <jmcarthur>	i like the extended deadline
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:15:45] <jmcarthur>	madsy: i think before
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:15:46] <danielvf>	before
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:16:21] <jmcarthur>	this game is sufficiently complicated that i have no idea what to try yet
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:16:24] <a1k0n>	dhartmei: what, no visualizer yet?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:16:30] <madsy>	And this is consistent across the different frameworks?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:16:45] <madsy>	a1k0n: I'm working on one right now.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:16:56] <a1k0n>	jmcarthur: your whole haskell UCT thing might apply no?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:17:03] <madsy>	With fast-forward and rewind.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:17:08] <a1k0n>	nice. javascript?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:17:10] <madsy>	And proper interpolation of fleet movments
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:17:16] <madsy>	SDL and C++
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:17:18] <a1k0n>	ah.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:17:25] <dhartmei>	a1kon: the new one is java, i'm rusty :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:17:31] <jmcarthur>	a1k0n: it could perhaps, but the branching factor of the game tree is this one is so wide...
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:17:42] <jmcarthur>	*in this one
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:17:43] <a1k0n>	i want a canvas one just so it doesn't... act all appletty and flickery and slow
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:17:52] <madsy>	a1k0n: So you don't instantly snap from one round to the next
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:18:03] <jmcarthur>	a1k0n: plus, games can go on forever, unlike tron, so the stochastic search might not be so great
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:18:06] <a1k0n>	yeah, interpolation of ships would look nice
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:18:23] <jmcarthur>	yeah javascript+canvas would be awesome
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:18:23] <a1k0n>	jmcarthur: true but there is a round limit in practice
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:18:29] <madsy>	WebGL!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:18:30] <madsy>	:D
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:18:34] <jmcarthur>	a1k0n: yeah i guess you are right there
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:18:39] <a1k0n>	so you can just optimize for (player 1 ships - player 2 ships) @ round limit
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:18:42] <Javache>	a1k0n: i'm thinking of writing something that uses <canvas>
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:18:56] <jmcarthur>	a1k0n: still, it's a huge branching factor. i would have to weed out a lot of options just to get enough rounds simulated
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:18:58] <a1k0n>	yeah, me too
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:19:29] <madsy>	I'm not sure how well searches work in practice. Most AIs will have some kind of random element, no?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:19:43] <jmcarthur>	madsy: mine almost certainly will not be deterministic
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:19:43] <a1k0n>	jmcarthur: yeah, at least try to solve for a few values of ships it makes sense to send (not so many as to leave yourself defenseless, and the minimum necessary to take over is easy to compute)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:19:51] <madsy>	Mine neither.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:20:16] <jaspervdj>	madsy: The random element will most likely be time
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:20:20] <a1k0n>	it seems like there should be a deterministic optimal strategy though
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:20:27] <a1k0n>	whether or not it's computable is the question
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:20:36] <amstan>	Javache: if it looks cooler and more stable than the java one, i will push to replace the default one with yours
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:20:37] <jmcarthur>	it's even computable, just not in the time limite
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:20:40] <jmcarthur>	*limit
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:21:07] <jaspervdj>	Javache: will you put it on github?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:21:12] <jmcarthur>	the optimal strategy is also very very likely to be a mixed strategy, too
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:21:18] <Javache>	jaspervdj: sure
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:21:24] <jmcarthur>	much higher chances of that than tron had
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:22:40] <seigen>	Anyone got a bot they want to fight?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:22:55] <seigen>	i feel bad for beating up on dhartmei's starter kit :(
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:23:05] <jmcarthur>	to evaluate every possible next position of a game would be something on the order of planets^4 positions i think
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:23:36] <danielvf>	Which is doable, for smallish sets of planets
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:23:40] <jmcarthur>	sure
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:23:49] <jmcarthur>	but not practical if you want to go deeper into the game tree
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:24:02] <jmcarthur>	you have to weed things out early to do that
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:25:01] <jmcarthur>	tron only had a maximum of three possible moves per player per turn after the first turn, and most bots didn't even go very far down the game tree then
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:25:34] <jmcarthur>	so this is an entirely different ball game. you *have* to weed out bad moves early
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:25:46] <jmcarthur>	if you are doing a search algorithm
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:27:18] <amstan>	strategies similar to how humans think might be better
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:27:26] <jmcarthur>	yeah, that is very possible
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:27:30] <amstan>	get some levels of abstractions, like groups of planets
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:27:41] <jmcarthur>	the nice thing about this game is that i just can't even guess
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:28:02] <seigen>	i think there are some key metrics you can maximize
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:28:19] <seigen>	like growth rate, total growth rate
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:28:32] <jmcarthur>	like a linear programming problem?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:28:38] <seigen>	kind of.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:28:48] <seigen>	but there are also some basic strategies i see humans use online
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:29:14] <seigen>	waiting until someone attacks a neutral with N+1 ships, then sending just a few ships to take it from them
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:29:24] <seigen>	after they've put in the cost of taking out the original ships.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:29:30] <seigen>	'poaching'
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:29:35] <danielvf>	Yup
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:29:47] <jmcarthur>	of course, that strategy might depend on whether it's better to do that than to attack the neutral at the same time as your opponent
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:29:59] <seigen>	well, you see the fleet go
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:30:11] <seigen>	and you can time your fleet to arrive at t+1
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:30:20] <seigen>	much easier for bots than humans to do that, i'd add.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:30:25] <amstan>	we should get the galcon creator in here
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:30:39] <jmcarthur>	i guess no matter what 3-way algorithm is chosen then waiting is better if you see a fleet move out
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:30:54] <jmcarthur>	yes we should
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:30:56] <jmcarthur>	does he irc?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:31:01] <jmcarthur>	i know we have contacted him
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:31:23] <amstan>	i don't know, i saw him on reddit
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:31:27] <amstan>	perhaps a pm on reddit
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:31:36] <jmcarthur>	do it!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:31:56] <seigen>	no challengers on the server?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:32:05] <amstan>	thing is that i'm "mile92" over there, i really wish reddit had a rename option
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:32:22] <a1k0n>	SirAlex
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:33:56] <amstan>	a1k0n: oh man, where did you get that from?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:34:01] <a1k0n>	github
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:34:09] <amstan>	how did you get there? lol
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:34:34] <a1k0n>	a little mild internet stalking after trying to understand remarks made earlier on irc
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:35:05] <amstan>	yes, i should rename my github too
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:35:55] <seigen>	who's running example on there?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:36:06] <seigen>	there=tcpserver
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:38:30] <amstan>	a1k0n: so.. how did you get to github? i'm really interested
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:39:11] Quit	smf68 has left this server (Remote host closed the connection).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:42:58] <a1k0n>	someone asked whether you were still working on hyperserv
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:43:26] <a1k0n>	and i wondered what the hell that was; turns out it's a sauerbraten server.  i still have yet to play any of the cube3d games
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:45:38] <amstan>	a1k0n: oh, yes
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:46:05] <amstan>	i forked greghaynes's server, and wrote my own high level stuff for it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:46:11] <amstan>	does this look ok? http://pastebin.com/4nSEFLSu
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:48:55] <danielvf>	Got my visualizer showing planets and ship counts, with a live feed from my local server
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:49:18] <danielvf>	I'd flip the "we are" paragraph with the "I wanted" onew
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:49:23] <danielvf>	*one
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:49:53] <amstan>	k, sending
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:50:45] <amstan>	captcha title: are you human? (sorry)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:50:49] <amstan>	lol
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:52:09] <amstan>	ownfall: welcome
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:53:39] <ownfall>	jo
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [13:58:33] <jmcarthur>	okay, i have a basic algorithm in my head now :D
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:01:28] <a1k0n>	i need to avoid getting involved for a while
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:01:38] <a1k0n>	or i won't be able to do anything else
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:04:01] <seigen>	a1k0n: having that problem myself
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:04:13] <jmcarthur>	another interesting thing about this game vs tron...
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:04:27] <jaspervdj>	jmcarthur: http://github.com/jaspervdj/planet-wars-haskell/commit/d3ee060f9f39a240d59de15c87f5d55f12bac5b1
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:04:37] <jmcarthur>	with tron, i could save the state of my search tree between turns so i don't have to redo the same work
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:04:44] <jaspervdj>	jmcarthur: I think the ioBot is liberal enough to support most bots (forking, timing...)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:04:47] <jmcarthur>	this has enough going on that that wouldn't really be helpful
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:04:52] <amstan>	this thing is too addicting, even just moderating it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:04:53] <jmcarthur>	jaspervdj: awesome!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:05:04] <jaspervdj>	jmcarthur: If it's not, ping me!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:05:09] <jmcarthur>	amstan: yeah seriously. i still haven't gotten any work done :P
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:05:32] <Palmik>	jmcarthur, it's ok until anyone notices it :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:05:39] <Palmik>	*someone
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:06:01] <jmcarthur>	Palmik: no, it's no okay because i don't have an employer. this is work that directly affects the money i might make
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:06:06] <jmcarthur>	*it's not okay
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:06:17] <Palmik>	well, then :D
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:06:54] <Palmik>	you'd better start selling your strategy xD
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:07:02] <Palmik>	just kidding :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:07:02] <jmcarthur>	hey there's an idea
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:07:05] <jmcarthur>	:P
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:07:46] <jmcarthur>	what is the turn limit on the server?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:09:29] <seigen>	1000
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:11:28] <danielvf>	jmcarthur: I'm not working either - same situation
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:13:04] <seigen>	no one wants to confess to running 'example' on the server?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:13:35] <jmcarthur>	danielvf: i haven't even started writing my bot yet. i'm just doing strategy in my head!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:13:54] <danielvf>	Heh.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:14:22] <danielvf>	I bought the Ipad game and played that for an hour this morning
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:15:50] <seigen>	danielvf: did you play online?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:15:54] <amstan>	do you get an email from when you get a PM on reddit?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:15:55] <Palmik>	Is it turn based or is it the same as the flash game? I would prefer turn base as I'm not that fast with hands imo :D
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:16:07] <danielvf>	seigen: no
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:16:18] <jaspervdj>	amstan: I don't think so
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:16:32] <Palmik>	*turn based
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:16:42] <amstan>	jaspervdj: that's a problem,  the galcon creator didn't post on reddit since 4 months ago
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:17:19] <jaspervdj>	amstan: If you want, send me a test pm (my username is jaspervdj), I'll check if I get a mail
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:17:28] <jmcarthur>	no, you don't get emails
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:17:30] Quit	alainesse has left this server (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:17:42] <jaspervdj>	ah, then you should try mailing him?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:18:21] <amstan>	jaspervdj: sent
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:18:24] <amstan>	jaspervdj: i don't have his email
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:19:35] <jaspervdj>	amstan: perhaps try this form? http://www.galcon.com/news/support/
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:20:04] <jaspervdj>	amstan: nope, didn't get an email notification
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:21:24] <ownfall>	so I was wondering, how many entries do you expect?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:21:45] <amstan>	there we go... just a whois on his personal domain gives me the email
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:21:53] <jmcarthur>	the last one was 700-800 i think, and this one will probably be bigger
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:22:26] <amstan>	ownfall: http://jpcameron.com/blog/?p=76
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:23:54] <ownfall>	crazy
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:30:08] <danielvf>	Rock on
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:34:41] <dhartmei>	seigen: i have a bot that beats the example now ;)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:37:13] <jmcarthur>	i don't even have a stinking bot
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:37:34] <seigen>	dhartmei, i take it that's example?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:37:55] <dhartmei>	example is the example, i run mine as dhartmei now
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:39:25] <seigen>	ok, i'll start tcp runnin
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:40:58] <seigen>	dhartmei: why so many single ship fleets?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:41:23] <seigen>	oh man, you beat me :(
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:41:32] <dhartmei>	i don't bulk them together yet
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:42:39] <dhartmei>	angry bee swarm :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:43:04] <seigen>	heh
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:43:39] <seigen>	no real reason not to
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:43:53] <jaspervdj>	can a fleet's position be calculated as: source + (destination - source) * turnsRemaining / tripLength?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:44:04] <jaspervdj>	with source & destination 2D vectors
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:45:02] <dhartmei>	i guess, but why would the position matter (and not just the turns remaining)?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:45:08] <jmcarthur>	making a visualizer or something?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:45:13] <dhartmei>	ah!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:45:25] <jaspervdj>	nah, just tinkering :-)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:45:38] <Zannick>	jaspervdj: you might have it backwards
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:45:53] <Zannick>	eg, where is the ship at 0 turns remaining? source or dest?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:45:54] <jaspervdj>	Zannick: Ah, yes I do
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:46:09] <jaspervdj>	Zannick: I stand corrected :-)
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:47:40] <ulope>	Hi, is there anyone here who can do sth. about not working password reset on the forums?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:48:25] <seigen>	dhartmei: it looks like you only sometimes beat the example :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:48:46] <dhartmei>	yeah, and i issue invalid orders, too. bugs :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:49:28] <jmcarthur>	wish i could use the visualizer on the tcp server ;)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:49:43] <jmcarthur>	or at least get the replay information to use locally
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:50:18] <ownfall>	what tcp server are you talking about?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:50:29] <jmcarthur>	ownfall: http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:50:34] <Scrap>	hello everybody
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:50:40] <jmcarthur>	hey Scrap!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:50:49] <seigen>	dhartmei, what language?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:50:50] <Scrap>	i have a question aout using the c# starter package
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:51:08] <Scrap>	how should I compile the files?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:51:16] <dhartmei>	seigen: c++
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:51:43] <ownfall>	thx for the link
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:53:53] <seigen>	0_o
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:53:57] <seigen>	why would you do that to yourself?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:53:59] <seigen>	;)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:57:51] <Zannick>	i would totally use python if i weren't worried about speed
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:57:52] <Zannick>	:P
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:58:04] <seigen>	heh.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:58:05] <Zannick>	i should probably switch to pure c
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:58:16] <seigen>	use py3k
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:58:53] <seigen>	plus, if you use good list comprehensions, etc., it's usually pretty good.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:59:00] <seigen>	i dunno, if that becomes an issue i'll move to C
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [14:59:27] <jmcarthur>	yay, planet wars becomes language wars!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:00:02] 	 * jmcarthur flavors the language war with some haskell sauce
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:00:29] <tapwater>	a haskell starter package would be nice :D
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:00:34] 	 * seigen watches his bot time out against dhartmei
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:00:38] <seigen>	well, hm
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:00:39] <jmcarthur>	tapwater: http://github.com/jaspervdj/planet-wars-haskell
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:01:04] <tapwater>	jmcarthur: :O
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:01:35] <amstan>	is there a way to tag all projects related to the ai challenge?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:01:47] <amstan>	make a big collection of projects, on github
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:01:57] <jmcarthur>	dunno
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:02:14] <jmcarthur>	i will of course be darcsing this thing up anyway
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:03:01] <Zannick>	use ASM only!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:03:02] <Zannick>	>.>
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:03:03] <Zannick>	<.<
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:04:45] <seigen>	dhartmei: that's 2/3
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:04:46] <seigen>	:)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:05:29] <Scrap>	http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/ - that's not official right?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:05:37] <ulope>	Anyone know if they upgraded to a newer python or are we still stuck with 2.5?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:05:40] <amstan>	Scrap: no, it's dhartmei's creation
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:05:55] <amstan>	ulope: still stuck with 2.5
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:06:13] <jmcarthur>	Scrap: it's for testing and fun purposes only
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:06:21] <ulope>	amstan: Hm dang, I feared that would be the answer
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:06:28] <amstan>	ulope: if you really want to upgrade, get a VM, install ubuntu server in it, and try installing the new version(2.7)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:06:33] <jmcarthur>	Scrap: it has some nice benefits though, like being able to access debug info
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:06:44] <amstan>	ulope: if you get a neat way of doing it provide us with instructions
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:07:00] <Zannick>	2.6 is good
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:07:06] <amstan>	2.6, w/e
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:07:08] <ulope>	amstan: what version of ubuntu are you running?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:07:12] <amstan>	ulope: 8.04
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:07:18] <amstan>	64 bit
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:07:27] <Zannick>	the only things in 2.6 that i use that break in 2.5 is the with statement
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:07:29] <Zannick>	:P
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:07:36] <ulope>	amstan: hm ok.. thats quite old. Did you consider dist-upgrading?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:07:44] <amstan>	except Exception as e
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:07:48] <amstan>	that doesn't work in 2.5
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:07:50] <Zannick>	oh, right, that, too
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:07:54] <Zannick>	i ran into that yesterday
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:08:01] <amstan>	ulope: that's not a good idea 3 days before launch
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:08:01] <jmcarthur>	amstan: do you guys use apt-get or aptitude on the server? i've heard you're not really supposed to use apt-get after using aptitude for much
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:08:02] <ulope>	for me the biggie is signal.setitimer
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:08:05] <Zannick>	because i was running /usr/bin/python and not /usr/local/bin/python
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:08:10] <Zannick>	the latter of which was up-to-date
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:08:22] <ulope>	that allows microsend accurate timeout signals
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:08:33] <jmcarthur>	actually, i don't even know how much that will matter
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:08:45] <seigen>	ulope: i did some  tweaking to the PlanetWar code
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:08:49] <jmcarthur>	oh, it will matter some, nevermind
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:08:54] <seigen>	PlanetWar.py, that is
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:08:54] <amstan>	ulope: make a good argument on why you want 2.6 and instructions on how to upgrade, and we'll try our best
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:09:01] <amstan>	ulope: ideally on the forums
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:09:11] <ulope>	amstan: true.. and waht about just compiling a new version of python and installing it to e.g. /opt/py27 ?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:09:38] <amstan>	ideally we need to get a deb that just plugs in and works
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:10:02] <jmcarthur>	ulope: yeah, i'm going to be creating instructions on getting a more up to date haskell arrangement. you could do the same for python
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:10:06] <ulope>	amstan: Hm I will see if I can come up with sth.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:10:21] <jmcarthur>	i doubt i can do a deb. i don't even really know how to do that
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:10:34] <amstan>	jmcarthur, ulope: you guys can share your findings, try to get it the easiest, most compatible way
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:11:02] <amstan>	jmcarthur: you could try installing the python from lucid or something in hardy
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:11:09] <ulope>	amstan: One other tnihg I have trouble requesting a password reset on the forums. The mails don't seem to get trough (not in spam either). Can you do sth. about that?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:11:19] <amstan>	ulope: yes... hmm
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:11:23] <Scrap>	how can I use c# starter package and still run bot fights in java?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:11:35] <dhartmei>	seigen: with 30k ships vs. 2, you should go into aggressive squashing mode ;)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:11:55] <Zannick>	Scrap: the engine and the bots communicate through io pipes, so language doesn't matter
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:12:14] <amstan>	Zannick: i think he wants instructions on how to compile and run it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:12:35] <Zannick>	oh
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:13:03] <ulope>	seigen: Yeah. I completeley rebuilt it yesterday. I will post it on the forums
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:13:15] <danielvf>	What is the TCP server using as an an engine, the javaone, or the python one?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:13:36] <dhartmei>	custom one, C++, possibly not with the final rules
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:14:20] <danielvf>	Ah.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:14:40] <danielvf>	I'm working up a javascript visualizer
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:14:55] <danielvf>	Just wondering what kind of data you are loggin.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:15:15] <amstan>	danielvf: Javache was also working on something canvas based
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:15:32] <danielvf>	I though he was doing a windows one?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:15:39] <danielvf>	Or is there a third guy?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:15:47] <amstan>	idk
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:16:04] <seigen>	ulope: would love to see it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:16:14] <seigen>	dhartmei: just noticed i was doing that... very strange
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:16:50] <seigen>	dhartmei: as long as my total growth rate exceeds the opponents, it sort of sits.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:16:53] <seigen>	and chills
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:17:37] <a1k0n>	dhartmei: do you ahve a turn limit?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:17:44] <dhartmei>	500 turns now
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:19:43] <danielvf>	dhartmei: Are you logging the individual games right now?
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:19:49] <a1k0n>	are you saving game states on your server such that they coul.. yes
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:20:09] <a1k0n>	(could be visualized i was gonna say)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:20:17] <dhartmei>	not yet. last time i had the official visualizer and its format as template
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:20:24] <a1k0n>	yeah
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:20:32] <a1k0n>	now it's java and annoying to reverse engineer
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:20:39] <dhartmei>	if you build the visualizer, i guess you get to decide the format.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:20:56] <a1k0n>	why not rip off the official one again for now?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:20:57] <amstan>	yeah... idk why jeff wanted java
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:21:01] <amstan>	kinda annoying
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:21:05] <dhartmei>	it's easy to save the bot input on each round, and add every bot's moves, maybe add the player id in front of orders?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:21:17] <a1k0n>	it's slow and flickery and doesn't quite fit in its own applet frame
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:21:32] <dhartmei>	it's more data to store and read in the visualizer, compared to last time...
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:21:51] <danielvf>	Have you seen the data the game outputs?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:22:01] <danielvf>	Not the actual log file?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:22:10] <danielvf>	It's much smaller than the log
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:23:16] <dhartmei>	with tron, you only had the starting map and each player's moves (one char per move), so the total was pretty small, even for longer games.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:23:33] <dhartmei>	now with 100+ moves, and each move doing dozens of orders, it gets larger...
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:23:51] <dhartmei>	and if you don't store the state after each move, the visualizer has to re-create it based on the rules
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:24:42] <a1k0n>	http://ai-contest.com/game_info.php?game_id=4413852
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:24:50] <danielvf>	For the planets at least, you only need to store the ship count and owner
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:24:53] <a1k0n>	that's what the java thing parses
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:24:54] <danielvf>	http://brains.s3.amazonaws.com/posts/2010/vis_1.png
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:25:32] <Javache>	danielvf: that looks good already
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:25:36] <Javache>	what are you using to draw?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:25:43] <Javache>	i'm working on something that uses svg
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:25:47] <danielvf>	canvas
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:26:09] <Javache>	i've got the parsing of the gamestring done already
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:26:38] <danielvf>	Cool
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:26:42] <Javache>	maybe we should bundle our efforts
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:26:45] <a1k0n>	what is the format?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:26:46] <Javache>	probably more efficient ;)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:26:54] <tapwater>	wow, cool stuff danielvf
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:26:56] <a1k0n>	is that the map first, then colon, then.. moves?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:27:02] <danielvf>	Yeah, I'm parsing the log
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:27:05] <Javache>	a1k0n: yeah, something like that
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:27:46] 	 * danielvf goes afk
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:28:13] <a1k0n>	too bad it's not json cuz doing it with javascript gives xss request headaches
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:28:30] <dhartmei>	gotta go, too. see you all tomorrow. this is going to be fun :)
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:29:18] 	 * danielvf back
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:31:07] <seigen>	cya dhartmei!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:31:11] <seigen>	thanks for the games :)
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:42:05] <seigen>	anyone else want to play on the tcp server?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:44:02] <a1k0n>	i'm running the example on it now, am i playing against you?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:44:06] <a1k0n>	oh, no, dhartmei
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:46:23] <seigen>	i also am playing dhartmei
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:46:34] <seigen>	he gets around...
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:47:47] <ownfall>	see ya on the battlefield or in irc, so long
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:56:57] <ulope>	amstan: Did you have a chance to look into my forum pw-reset problem?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:57:18] <amstan>	ulope: it's a harder problem.... since the email system doesn't work for some reason
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:57:22] <amstan>	i don't have access to solve that
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:57:26] <amstan>	i could reset your password though
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:57:28] <amstan>	manually
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:57:37] <ulope>	amstan: That would be great
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:57:38] <amstan>	you have to prove your identity somehow
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:58:04] <ulope>	well i can give you the email that was used to register the account
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:58:30] <amstan>	ulope: send me a mail to amstan@ai-contest.com with the password that you want
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:58:36] <amstan>	make sure you send it from.... hold on
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:59:00] Notice	Sending notice "send it from gai@ulo.pe" to ulope.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:59:02] <jmpespxoreax>	don't tell him the address...
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:59:09] <amstan>	why not?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:59:38] <amstan>	then when i get a mail from him.. i change it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:59:40] <jmpespxoreax>	header faking :P
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:59:53] <amstan>	darn... i didn't think of that
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [15:59:54] <amstan>	too late now
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:00:09] <jmpespxoreax>	that sucks
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:00:11] <amstan>	ulope: what's your ip?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:00:45] <ulope>	amstan: 79.254.2.114
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:01:21] <amstan>	jmpespxoreax: oh.. i know! reply to him with something secret
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:01:33] <ulope>	well i can put some file on my website which is hosted on the same domain to proove i own it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:01:33] <jmpespxoreax>	sure
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:01:58] <amstan>	ulope: i'll just reply to you something, and paste it on here
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:02:03] <amstan>	then it's confirmed..
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:02:10] <ulope>	ok good
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:02:17] <amstan>	i'm still waiting for the preferred password doing
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:02:19] <amstan>	though*
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:02:40] <ulope>	amstan: sent
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:03:45] <amstan>	sent as well
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:04:44] <ulope>	amstan: "sauerbraten" </cloak_and_dagger> ;)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:04:59] <amstan>	k, pass changed
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:05:04] <ulope>	great thanks
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:05:10] <jmpespxoreax>	username: ulope, password: hyperserv :P
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:05:27] <amstan>	oh man, does the whole contest know about my projects now? lol
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:05:40] <jmpespxoreax>	I only know because a1k0n mentioned it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:06:43] <ulope>	jmpespxoreax: hunter12
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:06:51] <ulope>	or was it 13?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:07:08] <jmpespxoreax>	lol 12
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:07:14] <jmpespxoreax>	I mean **
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:07:32] <ulope>	right, oh I mean how do you know my password ;)
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:19:17] <jmpespxoreax>	it is going to suck going through each forum posting considering that I have read none of it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:19:28] <amstan>	jmpespxoreax: pretty much
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:22:13] <Scrap>	how can I compile a bot in c# and then run the battle in java? When I compile it using csc.exe it makes an exe file but the instruction to run the simulation don't work.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:22:39] <amstan>	Scrap: what are you typing to run the sim?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:23:34] <Scrap>	the command provided in the instructions. I couldn't find the documentation with  the details..
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:23:47] <Scrap>	D:\contest>java -jar tools/PlayGame.jar maps/map7.txt 1000 1000 log.txt "java My Bot" "java MyBot" | java -jar tools/ShowGame.jar
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:24:29] <amstan>	what's the exe that was generated by csc?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:24:40] <Scrap>	MyBot.exe
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:25:14] <amstan>	so... you type that in the console to start your bot..
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:25:27] <amstan>	but you want a simulation... so you have to tell the simulator how to run your bot
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:25:40] <amstan>	D:\contest>java -jar tools/PlayGame.jar maps/map7.txt 1000 1000 log.txt runbot1 runbot2 | java -jar tools/ShowGame.jar
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:25:52] <amstan>	so.. replace runbot1 with MyBot.exe
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:26:00] <amstan>	and runbot2 with whatever you want..
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:26:06] <Zannick>	... log.txt "MyBot.exe" "MyBot.exe" ...
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:26:14] <Scrap>	ok thanks
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:27:36] <Scrap>	Is it normal if it says that player 1 timed out? Shouldn't the dummy bot do something?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:28:47] <jmcarthur>	seigen: when i asked about the server turn limit, i meant the official server. was your response for the tcp server?
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:37:14] <Scrap>	has anyone run the c# bot?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:39:28] <seigen>	jmcarthur: yes, the tcp server
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:39:50] <Zannick>	timed out often means died
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:39:58] <Zannick>	especially if it was turn 1
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:40:00] <seigen>	Scrap: so far 'timed out' means 'died'
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:40:00] <seigen>	yes
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:40:45] <Scrap>	so i compile mybot.cs and it dies in the first move. why does that happen?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:41:09] <seigen>	can you run your bot independently?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:41:17] <seigen>	if you just run mybot.exe, what happens?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:41:34] <Scrap>	a cursor blinks
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:41:52] <Scrap>	awaiting for some command i dont know
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:42:58] <Zannick>	it's waiting for a map
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:43:45] <jmcarthur>	i wonder if Accoun will find his way here again
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:44:05] <Zannick>	i figure the problem is more with the PlayGame server failing to run mybot.exe or failing to talk to it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:44:57] <Scrap>	why does that happen? Do I have a wrong compiler?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:45:11] <Zannick>	no, i don't know
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:45:21] <Scrap>	:(
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:45:47] <seigen>	Scrap: type in a few planets
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:46:12] <Scrap>	what do you mean
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:46:13] <seigen>	an example is "P 3.14 2.17 0 10 10"
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:46:18] <Zannick>	java -jar tools/PlayGame.jar maps/map7.txt 1000 1000 log.txt "./MyBot.exe" "java -jar example_bots/RandomBot.jar" | java -jar tools/ShowGame.jar
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:46:21] <Zannick>	try that command
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:46:35] <Zannick>	assuming your example bots are in the example_bots folder
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:46:50] <Scrap>	it dies again
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:46:59] <Zannick>	both of them, or just player 1?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:47:04] <Scrap>	player 1
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:47:36] <seigen>	Zannick: i think he should try putting in a few planets and typing go
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:47:37] <Zannick>	yeah, i'm going to bet it doesn't know how to run your exe in dos
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:48:07] <Scrap>	what's the solution? what can I try to do?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:48:07] <Zannick>	yeah, run MyBot.exe and copy the contents of a map file into it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:48:11] <ulope>	Scrap: try starting your program. then paste what Zannick wrote (e.g. "P 13.1356181899 2.07502997446 1 100 5"). press return. the type "go" and return
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:48:54] <Zannick>	then "go" on its own line
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:48:57] <seigen>	anyone got a bot they want to run on the tcp server
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:48:59] <seigen>	?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:49:27] <Scrap>	ulope it does not respond
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:49:42] <seigen>	Scrap: when you type "go", nothing happens?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:49:47] <Scrap>	yes
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:49:57] <Zannick>	you need to give it multiple planets
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:50:11] <seigen>	Zannick: it should still probably be echo'ing "go"
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:50:11] <Zannick>	copy an entire map file in
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:50:17] <Zannick>	seigen: ooh, right
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:52:13] <Scrap>	how do I echo go?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:52:55] <Zannick>	no, the bot should be
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:52:58] <Zannick>	run mybot.exe
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:53:03] <Zannick>	type on three separate lines
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:53:09] <seigen>	Scrap: Here's what happens: when you run your compiled bot, what it does is wait for the engine to describe the world to it, then it decides on commands to issue, issues them, and then says "go" so the engine knows its done
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:53:12] <Zannick>	P 0.0 0.0 1 100 5
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:53:19] <Zannick>	P 1.0 1.0 0 10 5
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:53:20] <Zannick>	go
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:53:25] <Zannick>	try that
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:54:37] <Zannick>	i expect the prepackaged bot to say "0 1 50" and "go" for that
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:54:47] Quit	alainesse has left this server (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:54:53] <Scrap>	mybot doesn't do anything and the java bots don't do neither
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:55:25] <Zannick>	i'm just gonna blame dos on this one, then
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:55:32] <Zannick>	s/on/for/
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:55:32] <jmpespxoreax>	which OS? maybe the line endings are not being picked up
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:55:40] <Scrap>	windows
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:55:43] <Scrap>	7 x64
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:55:53] <Zannick>	oh, that's probably it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:55:55] <jmpespxoreax>	anyone know if the source looks for CR LF or just LF?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:56:18] <Zannick>	the source probably just looks for LF, but i haven't looked at the c# source
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:56:35] Quit	aerique has left this server (Quit: ...).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:56:39] <Scrap>	i am going to try java now..
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:58:22] <Scrap>	it works just fine - the java bot
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:58:33] <seigen>	great
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [16:58:42] <jmcarthur>	i believe the spec is for unix style line endings
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:00:20] <Scrap>	is it possible to somehow change the playback speed? it's either really slow or it jumps to the end. No fun )
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:01:48] <a1k0n>	the java player is totally incapable of visualizing 500-round games
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:01:49] <madsy>	Scrap: Working on it..
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:01:53] <madsy>	:-)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:02:11] <seigen>	i'm looking forward to this advanced visualizer madsy :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:02:40] <madsy>	Scrap: The current viewer simply snaps to each turn, showing them as snapshots
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:02:54] <madsy>	With a fixed delay for each frame
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:03:20] <ulope>	a1k0n: yesterday i managed to have it play back a 800ish round game but it took about 5 minutes to load
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:03:58] <Scrap>	i have to click  really fast to make it faster :)
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:04:25] <Scrap>	a regulated autoclicker might be a solution :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:05:00] <a1k0n>	well, snapping to turns is a useful thing to do
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:05:08] <a1k0n>	if your'e debugging a bot instead of enjoying a match
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:05:31] <jmcarthur>	so how many turns does the official server cut the game off after?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:05:42] <jmcarthur>	seems important for strategy, to me
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:05:52] <a1k0n>	it seems important to me as well
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:05:56] <jmcarthur>	and in fact, it directly affects the strategy i'm going to use
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:06:05] <Scrap>	http://www.shockingsoft.com/download.php?tip=soft&file=AutoClicker.zip
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:06:11] <a1k0n>	yes, it basically defines the evaluation function i have in mind
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:06:17] <Scrap>	if someone wants an autoclicker. it helps :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:06:24] <mistabell>	what's the autoclicker for?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:06:33] <Scrap>	to make the match go faster
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:06:37] <Scrap>	to regulate the speed
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:06:47] <mistabell>	the video of the match?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:06:51] <Scrap>	yes
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:07:33] <a1k0n>	hmm, dhartmei's server thing needs to output in game log format somehow
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:09:42] <jmcarthur>	amstan: do you know the answer to my question? what's the official max number of turns in a game? if it's not concrete, i believe it should be
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:09:51] <seigen>	a1k0n: or the visualizer can read off the engine's descriptions between 'go's
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:09:57] <amstan>	jmcarthur: i have no idea
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:10:09] <mistabell>	It seems like it's less than 1000
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:10:39] <a1k0n>	i guess it wouldn't be hard to make a perl script to convert
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:13:09] <jmcarthur>	i think it seems to be around 100, but i'd still like to know whether it will stay that way (and encourage it to be part of the game spec)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:14:33] <Zannick>	tournament_manager.py appears to use 100 turns
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:16:00] <mistabell>	sounds like my tests are about to get 10x faster
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:16:36] <seigen>	100 turns!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:16:38] <seigen>	whoa.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:17:00] <a1k0n>	yeah if we only get 100 turns then the thing to optimize is not necessarily to win the game
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:17:01] <Scrap>	it says WARNING: player 2 timed out. in the middle of the game. Why does that happen? Both sides had the fleets at that time
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:17:19] <a1k0n>	Scrap: player 2 failed to 'go' in a second?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:17:25] <seigen>	hey here's a question:  if you run the java engine
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:17:32] <jmcarthur>	chime in with thoughts here, please: http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=431
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:17:38] <jmcarthur>	a1k0n: ^^
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:17:39] <Scrap>	a1k0n i don't know
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:17:50] <seigen>	it takes the map, two parameters (set to 1000, 1000) in the example, and then the execution strings of the two bots
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:17:54] <seigen>	what are the two numeric params?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:17:56] <mistabell>	my thoughts are 100 is too low
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:17:58] <seigen>	one is the timeout in turns
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:18:01] <seigen>	but what's the other?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:18:13] <seigen>	how long in ms before you decide a bot times out?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:18:24] <Zannick>	the first one is the time limit, in ms
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:18:32] <seigen>	thanks
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:18:34] <Zannick>	so 1000 = 1s
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:18:49] <jmcarthur>	mistabell: i personally agree, but i'd rather have a concrete low number than a variable number, so i'm focusing on the existence of the bikeshed more than its color ;)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:19:34] <mistabell>	gotcha.  fixed is good
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:19:42] <Scrap>	I run the simulation and the bot always times out on the turn 176. how is that possible?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:20:31] <ulope>	jmcarthur: I hope it will be >= 200. 100 seems extremely few.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:20:54] <jmcarthur>	ulope: i agree. a lot of the existing replays seem to cut off at critical moments :(
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:20:56] <a1k0n>	it may need to be map-dependent
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:21:57] <jmcarthur>	if it's map dependent then we'd need to add the number of turns to the map format :\
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:22:06] <jmcarthur>	i think it's probably too late for that one
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:26:31] <mistabell>	cool, my bot finally has a positive score
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:26:53] <mistabell>	I wish you could do a large number of battles faster... would be cool to try a neural net approach
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:27:03] <ulope>	Do any of you know if there will there be matches with more than 2 players?
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:27:24] <mistabell>	I read that they wanted to try to keep the match size at 2 for the competition
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:32:25] <a1k0n>	unlike tron, you could actually fake a group of players as "player 2" to the client and have it work
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:33:15] <jmcarthur>	yeah but your strategy would be thrown off a lot
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:33:21] <Zannick>	the programs all work with multiple bots
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:33:26] <jmcarthur>	FFA is a very different beast from 1v1
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:33:27] <a1k0n>	depends on how much you care about eliminating the other player
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:33:34] <Zannick>	you just need starting planets for them, and supply extra ones on the command line
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:34:16] <Zannick>	if you fake multiple enemy players as one player, then you only perceive yourself as ahead when you are ahead of them both combined
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:34:17] <a1k0n>	oh, i guess since they're going to be attacking, rather than reinforcing, each other, it'll confuse your bot a lot
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:34:27] <jmcarthur>	yeah
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:34:46] <seigen>	mistabell: have you run your bot on the tcpserver?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:35:17] <mistabell>	Is that the server where you click "Upload bot" ?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:35:24] <a1k0n>	no
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:35:30] <a1k0n>	http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:37:15] <mistabell>	good stuff
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:38:07] <mistabell>	I don't write much java at all, and am just kind of messing around with this so I probably won't need any extensive testing.  But good to know that exists.
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:38:27] <mistabell>	I guess that would be in C
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:39:35] <mistabell>	almost whooping you waterloo students with my BenderBot.  Max is tearing up.  I wish it was Friday. =]
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:40:00] <seigen>	mistabell: let's dance
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:40:06] <seigen>	put yours up on the tcpserver
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:40:08] <mistabell>	lol
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:40:12] <jmcarthur>	dancing is dun
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:40:13] <mistabell>	I'll probably get whooped
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:40:14] <seigen>	:)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:40:15] <jmcarthur>	*fun even
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:40:24] <seigen>	<-- also not a waterloo student
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:40:34] 	 * jmcarthur works on some install instructions for a more up to date ghc
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:40:59] <a1k0n>	how many actual waterloo students are in here?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:41:10] <a1k0n>	j3camero graduated now even
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:41:18] <amstan>	a1k0n: well.. me..
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:41:24] <a1k0n>	yeah besides amstan :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:41:47] <mistabell>	connected, waiting for game
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:42:01] <seigen>	ah, it paired me against dhartmei
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:42:12] <Zaph_>	jmcarthur, got any more of those tester accounts to hand out ? :-)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:42:26] <a1k0n>	yeah that's the problem with that server.  the pairings are fairly suboptimal unless lots of people are playing and have ratings
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:43:10] <seigen>	well, it disconnects after one play
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:43:26] <a1k0n>	right so you have to run in a loop or something
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:43:34] <seigen>	i also would take a tester account :)
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:45:33] <seigen>	oh man, paired against dhartmei again
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:45:42] <seigen>	mistabell: sorry, i guess i can't play you :(
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:46:22] <madsy>	Is the growthrate number of ships generated per round?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:46:33] <madsy>	The Java code is a mess..
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:46:48] <madsy>	No offense to the author
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:47:00] <amstan>	madsy: i agree, lol
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:47:20] <a1k0n>	the C++ code is pretty funny
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:47:52] <madsy>	Instead of using a fixed coordination system, the viewer code enumerates the planet positions and calculates the extreme points.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:48:00] <a1k0n>	PlanetWars::Planets could be replaced by "return planets_;"
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:48:28] <a1k0n>	well, that's not a bad thing to do given how arbitrarily large the maps can be
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:48:44] <jmcarthur>	Zaph_: you have me mixed up with somebody else :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:49:28] <madsy>	a1k0n: The game could have used a fixed size with some sane values. Scale is relative anyway.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:49:49] <a1k0n>	not really
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:49:54] <madsy>	Like the extreme points -1 to 1
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:49:58] <a1k0n>	scale impacts the number of turns necessary to get from one planet to the other
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:50:07] <a1k0n>	so it's not invariant
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:50:21] <madsy>	Yes, but that could have been fixed with a simple scalar.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:50:52] <a1k0n>	a scalar derived from taking the extreme points to make it fit within the window?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:51:07] <seigen>	mistabell: want to try connecting at the same time?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:51:08] <a1k0n>	might as well just do that in the viewer rather than complicating the clients!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:52:25] <Zannick>	a1k0n: the entire c++ starter code was so hilarious, i rewrote it all for my own bot
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:52:43] <a1k0n>	i did that for the last contest and probably will for this one
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:53:12] <Zannick>	(and did away with that pesky iterate-over-everything-every-time-you-want-something
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:53:20] <Zannick>	)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:53:42] 	 * madsy chases Zannick with an std::list iterator
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:53:54] <madsy>	-n
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:54:15] 	 * a1k0n warns madsy: comparison between signed and unsigned integer expressions
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:54:26] <Zannick>	no, i mean, a call to PlanetWars::MyPlanets() creates a new vector by iterating over the old one
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:54:28] <seigen>	do you guys even *like* programming?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:54:36] <seigen>	i mean, you could use python, and not have to worry about that crap
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:54:39] <Zannick>	same with neutral planets, enemy planets, my fleets, enemy fleets
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:54:47] <Zannick>	seigen: but i want /speeeeeeeeeeeed/
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:54:54] <Zannick>	and i don't mean drugs
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:54:55] <seigen>	eh, it'll optimize
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:54:59] <seigen>	see unladen swallow
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:55:07] <a1k0n>	seigen: we're not worrying about C++isms necessarily, we're worrying about crappy code to begin with
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:55:14] <seigen>	true.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:55:23] <Zannick>	it's not terrible
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:55:32] <seigen>	return [p for p in self._planets if p.Owner() == 0]
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:55:37] <seigen>	automatically gets optimized
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:55:45] <seigen>	and memo'ized
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:55:49] <seigen>	so, boom.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:55:50] <Zannick>	but i can throw half of it away for speed
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:56:01] <seigen>	whatever.  it gets memoized nicely
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:56:05] <Zannick>	memoized? really?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:56:12] <seigen>	check out the monocle
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:56:31] <seigen>	obtaining link...
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:56:37] <Zannick>	well, i implemented a lot better stuff anyway
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:56:46] <Zannick>	when i get back home tonight i'll continue with that
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:57:00] <Zannick>	maybe get a basic starter bot going on it tonight
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:57:01] <seigen>	yeah, the interpreter is really good about optimizing list comprehensions
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:57:05] <seigen>	they come out basically at c-speed
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:57:27] <Zannick>	oh
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [17:57:39] <Zannick>	no, what i'm saying is i don't want to recalculate that every time i look at it
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:30:43] <madsy>	Bah.. the record format contains very little information. Anyone coding a new viewer has to design the whole game engine.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:30:52] <madsy>	Not sure if I bother then.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:32:39] <jmcarthur>	aw
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:32:54] <jmcarthur>	you could just add animation to the existing java one
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:33:19] <j3camero>	Oh man so many people in here now.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:33:42] <j3camero>	madsy: if you need help with the playback format, I can help you out. It's actually super easy to parse.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:34:19] <j3camero>	madsy: if you want to look into improving the visualizer, you would be a hero to hundreds, and tens of thousands of people will see your work.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:40:15] <madsy>	j3camero: The parsing is okay, the game rules are not :-)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:41:05] <j3camero>	You don't have to worry about the rules with the playback format.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:41:24] <j3camero>	Each "frame" says who owns each planet, and how many ships are there.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:42:16] <amstan>	j3camero: mail system doesn't work..
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:42:24] <j3camero>	Okay, who wants to create a contest account? It would be cool to have a few more beta testers! :-)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:42:35] <amstan>	a1k0n, antimatroid: now is the time
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:42:39] <amstan>	rwa: you too
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:42:40] <j3camero>	amstan: oh thats bad. Will look into this. brb.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:43:10] <Zannick>	amstan: for the forum, you mean?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:43:29] <amstan>	Zannick: apparently ulope had problems with it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:43:30] <madsy>	j3camero: Ah, right. The growth is taken into account.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:43:44] <madsy>	j3camero: Thanks
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:44:04] <Zannick>	amstan: just making sure that j3camero knows which mail thing is bad
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:44:20] <amstan>	Zannick: wait.. main site mail works?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:44:21] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: i don't have a bot yet, but i could possible have the beginnings of a haskell bot up tomorrow some time
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:44:27] <jmcarthur>	*possibly
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:44:38] <jmcarthur>	so i could be a beta if that's not too late
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:44:48] <Zannick>	amstan: according to the signup mail i got last night :)
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:45:25] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: i'm working on some instructions for getting an up to date haskell platform installation on ubuntu 8.04 right now
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:45:26] <amstan>	j3camero: check gtalk
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:45:48] <zaphus>	Crazy... irc chat on my phone.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:46:06] <amstan>	zaphus: yes, i was sshing from a phone once
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:46:08] <Zannick>	how we've...progressed? in technology
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:46:09] <amstan>	it was enlighting
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:52:26] <seigen>	i want a contest account!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:52:28] <seigen>	me me me!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:52:29] <seigen>	:D
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:52:32] <seigen>	am i too late?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:52:35] <seigen>	i have a real bot
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:52:41] <seigen>	"real".  i.e., not the example
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:52:43] <amstan>	seigen: probably not
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:52:46] <seigen>	but not very sophisticated, either.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:52:48] <amstan>	he's working on the mail system
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:53:03] <seigen>	j3camero: still got open accounts?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:53:12] <javagamer_>	Can't wait for this to start
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:53:12] <amstan>	he didn't open them yet
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:53:28] <amstan>	javagamer_: yo, you're a sauer guy too, i remember getting you here
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:53:35] <seigen>	i thought he was asking for contest accounts
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:53:40] <seigen>	perhaps i misread
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:53:50] <amstan>	seigen: was asking? no... he's the lead guy, why would he ask
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:54:01] <jmcarthur>	s/asking/offering/
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:54:07] <amstan>	oh..
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:54:15] <seigen>	[  j3camero ] Okay, who wants to create a contest account? It would be cool to have a few more beta testers! :-)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:54:23] <amstan>	well.. he's going to open it soon, but idk when
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:54:31] <seigen>	Friday, i believe?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:54:36] <javagamer_>	amstan, that I am
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:54:40] <amstan>	a short beta i mean
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:55:01] <zaphus>	Me please :-)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:55:02] <javagamer_>	I heard Friday as well
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:55:52] <Javache>	madsy: i'm working on a <canvas> viewer
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:56:04] <Zannick>	canvas or html5 viewer would be awesome
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:56:09] <amstan>	Add your name here if you want to be highlighten when betas are open again: https://gist.github.com/adfe501a9b8315e6b1ac
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:56:17] <Javache>	together with danielvf
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:56:21] <zaphus>	Is that EST or PST ?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:56:57] <amstan>	oh man.. it emails me when ppl reply.. wow
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:57:43] <Zannick>	clearly what you wanted, right? :P
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:57:52] <jmcarthur>	looks like getting the Platform on ubuntu 8.04 will require buiding everything from source :(
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:58:06] <jmcarthur>	but no worries, i'm making a shell script :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:58:19] <jmcarthur>	it will just take a while for me to write and test
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:58:27] <jmcarthur>	and also a while for you guys to run it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [18:59:07] Nick	javagamer_ is now known as javagamer.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:01:09] <ulope>	jmcarthur: have you looked into making a .deb? I'm looking to do that for python2.6 right now but it's not exactly straightforward
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:01:23] Join	Mathnerd314 has joined this channel (~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:02:31] <jmcarthur>	ulope: no, i'm not even trying
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:02:49] <jmcarthur>	i'm just going to do a shell script. i know how to do it and it's easy
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:03:09] <ulope>	jmcarthur: yeah, I might end up there too
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:04:27] <jmcarthur>	testing this under a VM really sucks since VMs don't do compiling very quickly :(
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:04:34] <jmcarthur>	and GHC takes a while to compile
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:04:58] <jmcarthur>	and i'm just going to have to run this again once the script is done to make sure the thing works in its entirety
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:05:09] <ulope>	what kind of vm are you using?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:05:15] <jmcarthur>	virtualbox
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:05:36] <seigen>	who was trying to get a hold of phil hassey?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:05:36] <jmcarthur>	virtualbox is actually pretty quick, but i have never used a vm that does compilers fast
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:05:41] <jmcarthur>	seigen: amstan
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:05:55] <seigen>	amstan: phil hassey usually hangs out in the ludumdare channel
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:06:03] <jmcarthur>	ah! makes sense :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:06:08] <ulope>	jmcarthur: probably limited by disk troughput and not cpu
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:06:21] <jmcarthur>	ulope: the virtual disks that VMs use are very slow, yes
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:06:27] <seigen>	yeah, he's a ludum-darite.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:06:31] <seigen>	or whatever the noun is
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:07:14] <jmcarthur>	ulope: thank goodness for VM snapshotting though!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:07:17] <tapwater>	jmcarthur: have you managed to get that haskell starter package running?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:07:29] Quit	zaphus has left this server (Quit: Bye).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:07:31] <jmcarthur>	tapwater: i haven't tried yet. i'll have to write my own for what i'm doing anyway
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:07:44] <ulope>	jmcarthur: definitely
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:07:46] <tapwater>	jmcarthur: ah ok, thanks
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:07:48] <jmcarthur>	well, i won't *have* to, but i might as well
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:08:01] <tapwater>	jmcarthur: what makes you say that, out of curiosity?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:08:34] <jmcarthur>	i won't be using any of the features the library provides aside from the parsing itself. i need a way to carry state from turn to turn. IORefs are an ugly way to do that. etc. etc.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:09:04] <tapwater>	I see
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:09:06] <jmcarthur>	the parsing is all i really care about. i will probably just strip it from the starter and use that as my base
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:09:56] <tapwater>	jmcarthur: let me know when you get a base running, I'm always eager to learn more haskell :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:15:29] <phreeza>	j3camero: still looking to give out beta accounts?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:15:54] <seigen>	j3camero: seconded?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:16:03] <j3camero>	Hello peoples. I am the contest organizer. I have just enabled the creation of new contest accounts. Everyone grab an account. It will stay open for a few minutes. Please be courteous and do not tell the rest of the internet. I don't want to see a post in reddit/r/programming saying that account creation is open.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:16:05] <jmcarthur>	tapwater: are you saying that the starter doesn't actually work?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:16:19] Quit	blackskad has left this server (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:16:19] <phreeza>	j3camero: cool
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:16:45] <j3camero>	People who are here now: please tell the other channel participants who are in this IRC channel as they become not AFK.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:16:52] <j3camero>	I will leave it open for only a few minutes.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:17:01] <j3camero>	brb. I am just cooking dinner with the gf.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:17:29] <seigen>	j3camero: thanks!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:17:35] <jmcarthur>	woot i have an account!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:17:49] <tapwater>	jmcarthur: well, I can't seem to compile it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:17:59] <amstan>	ok... who's zaph?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:18:05] <tapwater>	jmcarthur: it could be that I'm just clueless with ghc
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:18:10] <amstan>	he wanted to be highlighted, but he's not here..
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:18:30] Join	zaphus has joined this channel (~AndChat@120.155.44.123).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:18:37] <jmcarthur>	tapwater: ghc -O2 --make Main
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:18:43] 	 * Mathnerd314 celebrates successful registration
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:18:46] <amstan>	zaphus: account creation is open
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:18:48] <jmcarthur>	aw, i can't edit my profile?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:18:57] <jmcarthur>	Mathnerd314 is here!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:18:58] <amstan>	jmcarthur: not the main profile
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:19:02] <jmcarthur>	dang
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:19:04] <amstan>	jmcarthur: i will if you ask really nicely
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:19:06] <amstan>	well..
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:19:09] <amstan>	nvm, i can't
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:19:09] <tapwater>	jmcarthur: that worked, thanks!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:19:14] <amstan>	j3camero: give me mysql access
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:19:25] <jmcarthur>	amstan: i left my about me field blank so i could register more quickly because i didn't know how long registration would stay open
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:19:50] <jmcarthur>	i just ask somebody to edit it for me later
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:19:52] <jmcarthur>	*i'll
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:19:53] <amstan>	jmcarthur: that's fine, i can fix that when i have it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:20:04] <amstan>	i did this kinds of things all the time last term
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:20:11] <Mathnerd314>	amstan: is it worth asking you to add my high school? I really doubt anybody else will come from it :p
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:20:28] <amstan>	Mathnerd314: yep, the more the merrier
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:20:38] <amstan>	Mathnerd314: post it on the forums
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:21:35] <Mathnerd314>	that 13-page long topic?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:21:42] <amstan>	Mathnerd314: yes
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:21:53] <Zannick>	you can safely not read all of it :P
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:21:54] <amstan>	that's mostly done, there's like 4 ppl which didn't have their request
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:22:04] <amstan>	i added 90% of those posts
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:22:31] <seigen>	i'm betting j3camero is fixing dinner, but -- anything we should be looking for as betas?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:22:47] <amstan>	seigen: everything
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:22:48] <amstan>	lol
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:22:58] <seigen>	x_x
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:22:59] <seigen>	right.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:23:24] <amstan>	seigen: try to hack the system, this is like the only time you'll have the opportunity
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:23:31] <amstan>	seigen: do document your actions though
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:23:42] <seigen>	ok
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:23:52] <seigen>	So far it's just register & upload some code
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:24:11] <jmcarthur>	tapwater: you're welcome!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:26:16] <tapwater>	dang, uploading doesn't work
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:26:52] 	 * ulope got an account \o/
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:27:03] Join	mightybyte has joined this channel (~mightybyt@207-38-168-7.c3-0.43d-ubr1.qens-43d.ny.cable.rcn.com).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:27:15] <tapwater>	I'm submiting a zip with two files, MyBot.py and PlanetWars.py
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:27:32] <tapwater>	and I get a Compile Failure! email
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:27:33] <mightybyte>	Hello again
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:27:34] <seigen>	tapwater: that's also what i did
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:27:40] <seigen>	and i got a compile success e-mail
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:28:01] <j3camero>	If you have problems with anything, create an issue at http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/list with LOTS of detail!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:28:19] <j3camero>	tapwater: are you using mac?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:28:22] <mightybyte>	I was delighted to find out about another AI challenge so soon.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:28:24] <tapwater>	j3camero: yeah
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:28:45] <amstan>	dudes... wikipedia entry for the contest
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:28:54] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: is the timer still wall clock time?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:29:01] <j3camero>	tapwater: okay dont bother filing a ticket. We know about the issue you're having. The workaround is to not use mac, or to use .tar.gz instead of .zip files.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:29:04] Join	performance has joined this channel (c019f0e1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.25.240.225).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:29:05] <jmcarthur>	mightybyte!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:29:08] <amstan>	tapwater: make sure your zip does not contain the map specific files yet
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:29:16] <amstan>	s/map/mac
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:29:23] <seigen>	is the server running python 2.6?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:29:26] <amstan>	seigen: 2.5
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:29:30] <tapwater>	j3camero: ok thanks, I'll try that
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:29:32] <mightybyte>	jmcarthur: I actually found out about it from the haskell.reddit post of your starter package.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:29:33] <seigen>	oh, bollocks
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:29:41] <seigen>	thanks
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:29:47] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: check the issue tracker. There is a topic about wall time vs cpu time. I'm still not sure what we should do about that. The purpose of the time limit is to guarantee throughput, not to make things fair for the contestants.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:29:48] <jmcarthur>	mightybyte: it's not mine
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:29:50] <amstan>	seigen: someone's researching how to get 2.6 on ubuntu hardy
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:29:53] <mightybyte>	amstan: Are our old accounts still active from last time?  I haven't been able to log in.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:29:55] <amstan>	seigen: you might want to help them
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:29:59] <mightybyte>	Oh, right.  jaspervdj.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:30:03] <amstan>	mightybyte: no, you have to make them again
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:30:04] <ulope>	seigen: I'm trying to come up with a way to get 2.6 on 8.04
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:30:20] <seigen>	ulope: anything i can do to help?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:30:21] <amstan>	mightybyte: perfect timing too, the registrations are open temporarly for betaing
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:30:22] <jmcarthur>	mightybyte: old forum accounts work. old contest accounts don't
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:30:23] <mightybyte>	amstan: Ok, and new account creation is currently disabled?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:30:27] <mightybyte>	Oh, awesome.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:30:33] <Zannick>	if it were me, i would just build it and force it into the appropriate place
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:30:34] <jmcarthur>	mightybyte: hurry :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:30:35] Join	zaph_ has joined this channel (~AndChat@CPE-124-191-53-180.wzlh2.win.bigpond.net.au).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:30:35] <amstan>	mightybyte: yes, forum accounts work
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:30:47] <j3camero>	Just to let people know, you can create an account now. But only for a few more minutes.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:30:49] <mightybyte>	amstan: I was just about to ask for special treatment. :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:30:52] <Mathnerd314>	amstan: web bug: "my profile" in sidebar seems to link to profile.php and not profile.php?user_id=stuff
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:31:01] <a1k0n>	oh man... the temptation
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:31:17] <amstan>	a1k0n: go back to work, lol
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:31:18] <tapwater>	j3camero: just fyi, it worked :D
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:31:29] <jmcarthur>	woah lots of issues in the tracker
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:31:38] <amstan>	Mathnerd314: ideally put it in the issue tracker
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:31:47] <jmcarthur>	Mathnerd314: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/list
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:31:52] <Mathnerd314>	oh, thanks
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:31:54] <jmcarthur>	maybe that should be in the topic?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:31:55] <ulope>	seigen: not at the moment. I'm not quite sure how to go about "optional" modules (like numpy, psyco, etc.) with a python in a non-standard location
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:31:58] <amstan>	Mathnerd314: you can do this for all real issues
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:32:01] <mightybyte>	amstan: Are the forum accounts still the same?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:32:04] <amstan>	mightybyte: yes
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:32:22] <mightybyte>	a1k0n: Hey there.  I see you're back too. :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:32:32] <mightybyte>	amstan: Hmmm, I might need some help there.  For some reason I couldn't log in.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:32:37] <seigen>	ulope: what's your current approach?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:32:40] Mode	ChanServ gives channel operator privileges to jmcarthur.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:32:49] <seigen>	ulope: i also don't know enough about the environment it's running in.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:33:07] <amstan>	seigen: ubuntu server 8.04 64bit
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:33:10] <a1k0n>	mightybyte: damn right.  i figure it'd be a copout to quit while i'm ahead on the first one of these..
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:33:11] <tapwater>	looks like I'll keep working on my python bot until haskell gets support :P
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:33:21] Topic	jmcarthur sets the channel topic to "Official Google AI Challenge | All your space are belong to us. | http://ai-contest.com/ | Report issues at http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/list | Contest will start Friday September 10th. | Good Luck!".
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:33:25] Mode	jmcarthur takes channel operator privileges from jmcarthur.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:33:25] <amstan>	seigen: install it in a VM, get python, then write instructions on how to do it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:33:40] <seigen>	:) right.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:33:46] <amstan>	tapwater: you can probably use the haskell starter package
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:33:48] <mightybyte>	a1k0n: Heh.  That's a good attitude.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:33:52] <seigen>	or... fix my code to not die in 2.5
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:34:00] <seigen>	amstan: i will look into it, though.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:34:14] <philipj_>	ooh while I was gone j3camero was giving out accounts?  I want one too!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:34:23] Quit	zaphus has left this server (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:34:24] <ulope>	seigen: basicly build py26 from source with --prefix set to /opt/python2.6, then install distribute for 2.6 and make sure nothing "contaminates" the sytem python
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:34:29] <tapwater>	amstan: I did check that out, but I don't think haskell's supported in the current beta accounts
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:34:43] <ulope>	seigen: I haven't tried it on an actual ubuntu 8.04 yet.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:34:46] <Zannick>	weird
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:35:01] <amstan>	tapwater: i'm just saying.. haskell is one of those things that we'll definatelly support
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:35:15] <Zannick>	my python2.6 build went into /usr/local/bin, and packages to /usr/local/lib/python2.6
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:35:26] <Zannick>	so i didn't need to worry about blasting away 2.5
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:35:36] <tapwater>	amstan: awesome, great to know :D
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:35:39] <seigen>	ulope: i have 2.6 and 2.7 running concurrently -- i did have to go back and fix the symlinks of /usr/bin/python
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:35:40] <Zannick>	but that's fedora, so idk re: ubuntu
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:35:57] <mightybyte>	amstan: Yeah, I can't for the life of me figure out my forum password.  And the forgot password link didn't seem to work.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:36:06] <ulope>	Zannick: hm did you manually specify /usr/local as prefix?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:36:10] <amstan>	mightybyte: yeah.. forum emails are down, idk why
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:36:14] <Zannick>	ulope: i don't think so
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:36:16] <amstan>	mightybyte: i can do a manual password reset
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:36:22] <mightybyte>	amstan: Thanks
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:36:23] <Zannick>	it was a while ago
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:36:36] <Zannick>	probably i just did a yum install python2.6 and it automagically worked
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:36:39] <seigen>	who submitted cheese bot?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:36:44] <mightybyte>	amstan: You can just email it to me.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:36:47] <Mathnerd314>	amstan: filed as http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/detail?id=61. should I provide a (1-line) patch?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:36:59] <amstan>	Mathnerd314: that will help
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:37:07] <amstan>	mightybyte: will do
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:37:11] <jmcarthur>	Mathnerd314: patches are encouraged
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:37:21] <ulope>	Zannick: yeah well the problem is that there is no 2.6 on the ubuntu 8.04 (since its from 04/2008) repository
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:37:47] <Zannick>	yeah
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:38:00] <ulope>	Zannick: so it need to be built from source
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:38:02] Join	Zaph__ has joined this channel (7cbf35b4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.191.53.180).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:38:09] <j3camero>	haha oh man are people complaining about our ancient python again? :-P
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:38:15] Quit	zaph_ has left this server (Quit: Bye).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:38:26] <j3camero>	Okay last call for accounts.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:38:29] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: okay, so the issue with CPU time is that it's possible for wall clock time to go on for too long due to sleeping and waiting for IO, etc.?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:38:53] <amstan>	mightybyte: sent
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:38:59] <mightybyte>	amstan: Thanks.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:39:11] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: yes. If we used only CPU time, we could be attacked with a bot that does while(1) {sleep(999);}
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:39:22] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: simple solution for that. have a small CPU time limit with a small penalty (lose the match?) and a large wall clock time limit with a big penalty (disqualification?) :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:39:30] <mightybyte>	amstan: Got the email.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:39:35] <amstan>	mightybyte: cool
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:39:40] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: I thought of that. It's a good idea.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:39:55] <amstan>	mightybyte: sorry about the paranoia, blame jmpespxoreax
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:40:03] <amstan>	lol
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:40:22] <a1k0n>	the upper bound on wall clock time could just be 2 seconds which should be safe on a loaded server
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:40:26] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: I think we all agree it's a good idea. Nobody knows how to do it. There is a thing under trunk/experimental/python_subprocess_cpu_time where you could take a crack at it.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:40:32] <a1k0n>	server loading was, IIRC, a serious issue for a little while last round, no?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:40:37] <mightybyte>	amstan: Heh, no problem.  It's understandable.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:40:44] <a1k0n>	getrusage?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:40:53] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: oh i thought that the technical details had been worked out already, judging from the thread on the issue tracker...
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:40:56] 	 * jmcarthur rereads it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:40:57] <mightybyte>	amstan: Actually more secure that way.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:41:30] <mightybyte>	amstan: Oh, I had a suggestion.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:41:31] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: also consider this.... sleeping isn't a very heavy attack ;)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:41:37] <Zaph__>	Not sure if anyones noticed this, but my country ID in the 'my profile' page is invalid apparently
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:41:38] <amstan>	mightybyte: k?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:41:39] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: perhaps somebody figured it out. I haven't checked back yet. It's a great idea. If someone can send a patch, we can give it a try.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:41:53] <jmcarthur>	anyway, i gotta go eat now
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:41:55] <amstan>	Zaph__: can you remind me about it tomorrow?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:42:11] <j3camero>	Zaph__: can you file a ticket in http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/list with a link and a description?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:42:11] <mightybyte>	amstan: Base the contest on Konquest instead of Galcon.  Konquest has an additional variable that I think might make the game more interesting.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:42:25] <amstan>	j3camero: nah, not that essential probably
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:42:40] <amstan>	mightybyte: too late for that
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:42:45] <amstan>	mightybyte: its 3 days till release
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:42:47] <mightybyte>	Ok, I wondered.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:42:58] <amstan>	mightybyte: you should of bothered us 2 months ago
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:43:10] <mightybyte>	If I had known what game you were doing I would have. :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:43:23] <amstan>	it was on reddit
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:43:27] <mightybyte>	I've always wanted to have a contest to spur some improvement in the AI used in Konquest.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:43:33] <Zannick>	make the next game rock em sock em robots!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:43:33] <mightybyte>	Hmmm, I missed it.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:43:43] <mightybyte>	Don't read reddit much anymore.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:43:44] <Zannick>	:P
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:43:46] <amstan>	robocode
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:43:50] <phreeza>	woot i'm second hehe
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:44:31] <seigen>	phreeza: we haven't played yet :P
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:44:51] <phreeza>	seigen: battle of the python bots
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:45:18] <seigen>	phreeza: debugging is for sissies!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:45:32] <mightybyte>	Pythonistas beware!  Haskell bots under development.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:45:40] <j3camero>	I wanna do limit hold em next contest. That would fucking rock.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:45:42] <seigen>	Although i dig the tcpserver making that so much easier
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:45:48] <j3camero>	Okay account creation is closing...
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:46:29] <Zannick>	j3camero: haha sweet
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:46:43] <seigen>	j3camero: Thanks!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:46:48] <Zannick>	(except i bet online casinos would worry)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:46:50] <seigen>	hey, is there a ticket for showing the most recent games?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:47:06] <seigen>	or a queue of planned games?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:48:08] <Zaph__>	how long would we expect to wait between 'compile success' and our first appearance on the leaderboard ?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:48:18] <seigen>	Zaph__: took me about 5 minutes.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:48:31] <seigen>	it seems to prioritize games for new entrants
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:48:41] <seigen>	<-- talking out ass
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:48:59] <javagamer>	Wait, did I just miss account creation again?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:49:06] <seigen>	oh bummer :(
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:49:23] <Zaph__>	hmm, been almost 15 minutes and nothings appeared for me
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:49:31] <javagamer>	Oh well, don't have time to make a bot yet, though I will on Thursday
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:49:35] <seigen>	Zaph__: haven't been any games in about that long.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:49:54] <Mathnerd314>	amstan: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/detail?id=61 now with patch
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:50:42] <seigen>	Zaph__: i think they crashed )
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:50:43] <seigen>	:)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:50:50] <mightybyte>	amstan: Also, are you guys set on making the neutral planets accumulate ships at the same rate as the occupied planets?  Seems like it might be beneficial to have neutral planets accumulate ships more slowly.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:51:03] <seigen>	mightybyte: neutral planets accumulate no ships
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:51:25] <mightybyte>	seigen: Oh, never mind then.  I thought I read somewhere that they did.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:52:35] <Zaph__>	ok, now I'm on the charts
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:52:59] <seigen>	there you go
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:53:09] <seigen>	now, how long until your second game?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:53:24] <tapwater>	wow, my submitted bot seems to just crashing
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:53:32] <tapwater>	why would that be, I wonder
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:53:50] <tapwater>	works fine on my machine
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:54:17] <mightybyte>	tapwater: What language?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:54:28] <tapwater>	mightybyte: python
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:55:01] <seigen>	which version were you using at home?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:55:10] <mightybyte>	Hmmmm, no idea.  That should rule out segfaults.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:55:19] <seigen>	tapwater: followed by: did you submit your version of PlanetWars.py?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:55:35] <tapwater>	2.6.1
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:55:38] <tapwater>	seigen: yea
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:55:58] <Zaph__>	won my second game, dropped 82 points in ELO...  which is odd, since winning should never drop your ELO (I've been doing ELO stuff for 25 years)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:56:09] <seigen>	tapwater: did you use any 2.6 stuff?  the server runs 2.5
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:56:19] <a1k0n>	unless it was recalculated from scratch with bayeselo
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:56:28] <a1k0n>	and your opponents' elo dropped
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:56:35] <tapwater>	seigen: I'm not sure what is 2.6 specific
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:57:11] <Zaph__>	ah, perhaps thats it - didnt realise that bayeselo would go back in time and recalculate previous scores again
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:57:12] <seigen>	tapwater: also, if you submitted your version of PlanetWars.py, did it have the typos listed here?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:57:17] <seigen>	http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=399
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:57:26] <seigen>	2.6 has the 'with' statement
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:57:42] <tapwater>	seigen: yeah I fixed those typos, it wouldn't run on my own box otherwise
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:57:53] <tapwater>	no "with" statement used, either
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:58:17] <tapwater>	maybe list comprehensions are 2.6?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:58:24] <seigen>	tapwater: no
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:58:26] <ulope>	tapwater: no
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:58:33] <seigen>	but check the typos in that link
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:58:40] <seigen>	you can fix them in PlanetWars.py real quicklike
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [19:59:09] <seigen>	zaph__: how do you get three games and i haven't gotten two yet :(
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:00:02] <tapwater>	seigen: yeah, I fixed those a while ago; the bot runs fine locally
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:00:21] <seigen>	tapwater: have you tried it against all the example bots on all the maps?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:00:42] <tapwater>	seigen: can't say I've done that, no haha
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:00:50] <tapwater>	seigen: I guess I'll go fish for some bugs..
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:01:40] <seigen>	they put a script on the forum to automatically run it against them all
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:01:55] <seigen>	it's worth doing to make sure you don't hang or time out under some conditions
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:03:36] <Zaph__>	seigen:  My code is awesome, thats how :-)  the server just knows it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:03:49] <seigen>	tapwater: here's the link http://www.ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=395&start=10
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:04:11] <madsy>	What's the best way to skip a character in the stream of an istringstream?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:04:17] <madsy>	istringstream::ignore(), from ios=
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:04:18] <madsy>	?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:04:22] <tapwater>	seigen: oh that's really useful, thanks
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:05:55] <tapwater>	there are planets with zero growth rate? o_O
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:06:10] <seigen>	hahaha
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:06:14] <seigen>	found the bug?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:06:29] <tapwater>	found *a* bug, at least
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:09:08] <phreeza>	is the number of turns going to be staying low like it is now?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:09:51] <phreeza>	if it is, it will most likely come down to who can grab more than half fastest, and then defend it.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:10:34] <Mathnerd314>	phreeza: if you can do that, you'd win in any case
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:10:59] <seigen>	not necessarily: you'd want to grab the most with the least loss of ships
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:11:12] <seigen>	where "most" is prioritizing the planets with the highest growth rate
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:11:44] <seigen>	Who is UloPee?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:12:15] <phreeza>	oh i'm first
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:12:17] <phreeza>	sweet
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:12:36] <phreeza>	seigen: i'm guessing ulope
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:13:02] <ulope>	seigen: Yeah. Sadly usernames have to be 6 cahrs minimum :(
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:13:17] <a1k0n>	wow your bot owns
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:13:40] <phreeza>	ulope: except for max, aparently
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:14:13] <seigen>	oh no, my first draw!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:14:17] <a1k0n>	yeah wtf
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:14:51] <ulope>	hmpf.. seems something I did doesn't run on 2.5
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:15:02] <seigen>	does the view game >> link work yet?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:15:06] <seigen>	or is that still in progress?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:15:16] <a1k0n>	it works fine
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:15:24] <a1k0n>	er, on the official site i mean
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:16:17] <phreeza>	how can it be a draw?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:16:20] <seigen>	thanks, must be me
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:16:28] <seigen>	phreeza: i don't know.  I thought it went by total of ships
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:16:42] <jmcarthur>	phreeza: congrats on finally putting Max down
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:17:01] <phreeza>	jmcarthur: thanks
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:17:08] <ulope>	do you guys get mails after your bots have run?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:17:13] <seigen>	no
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:17:17] <ulope>	ok
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:17:22] <phreeza>	seigen: exactly the same number seems unlikely?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:17:31] <Zaph__>	seigen: The scheduler is odd - you're now at 5 games, will have to take a look at how it works because it's pitted me against the 3 bottom sides and nobody up high yet
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:17:56] <seigen>	phreeza: yeah, so maybe it either a) counts planets or b) doesn't care.  there's a 100 turn limit
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:18:07] <seigen>	Zaph__: yeah, it did that for me the first three games as well
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:18:39] <jmcarthur>	does anybody else see a number in the middle of this map with no circle around it? http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=4414056
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:19:03] <Zaph__>	100 turn limit ?  really  wow, most of my test games at home run 150+ turns against good opponents
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:19:04] <Mathnerd314>	jmcarthur: yes, circle with 0 production
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:19:04] <jmcarthur>	it's even attacked later in the game. visualizer bug i guess
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:19:10] <jmcarthur>	ah
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:19:16] <jmcarthur>	now i get it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:19:20] <Zaph__>	0 growth
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:19:24] <a1k0n>	jmcarthur: sure enough.  i bet.. yeah 0 growth
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:19:26] <jmcarthur>	ideally should still show a small circle though...
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:19:36] <Zaph__>	the planets should be drawn with 1+growth radius, not growth
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:20:12] <phreeza>	i'm off to catch some sleep, thanks for the account j3camero
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:20:17] <phreeza>	i think this will be fun
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:20:41] <mightybyte>	Yeah, me too.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:20:42] Quit	rwa has left this server (Quit: rwa).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:20:44] <Zannick>	every map appears to have a planet dead center that has 0 production
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:20:51] <Zannick>	it is also planet id 0
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:21:00] <j3camero>	Sorry about the 100 turn limit. I could boost that to a higher number. The idea there is that most games are basically decided after N turns, and we can better use the CPU cycles after that.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:21:11] <Zannick>	i think this is how the map generation makes the maps symmetric
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:21:36] <a1k0n>	j3camero: that's fine, but it affects our strategies so we should know what the limit is
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:21:47] <j3camero>	If the map generator is generating shitty maps that all have a zero production planet in the middle, someone should check it out, fix it, and submit a patch with an issue.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:21:52] <Zaph__>	agreed, we need to know.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:21:54] <a1k0n>	or it may affect, dunno
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:22:14] <Zaph__>	also, some maps have planets that are 20+ turns apart, which is pretty far in a 100 turn universe
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:22:18] <j3camero>	I think 100 is too short, given what we know now.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:22:37] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: i am of the opinon that (a) 100 is way too short, and (b) the number should be standardized by friday
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:22:57] <ulope>	Zaph__: Yes. 100 seems awfully low. Most of my (test) games come in around 150-200
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:23:09] <Zannick>	i've been running 300
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:23:17] <Zannick>	but i also don't have a real bot yet
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:23:56] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: the max game length is probably going to change around a bit as the contest goes on. There is a tradeoff there between more games vs better games.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:23:57] <Zannick>	oh, aha
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:24:00] <seigen>	j3camero: how does it decide a draw?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:24:04] <Zaph__>	waiting for my bot to play one of the top bots, will be intetrested to see where 100 turns gets to
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:24:10] <Zannick>	not all maps have 0 production planets
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:24:16] <Zannick>	but the ones that do are dead center
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:24:24] <j3camero>	Oh, after 100 turns the game goes to whoever has more ships on the map.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:24:26] <Zannick>	er
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:24:28] <Zannick>	first line
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:24:28] <Zaph__>	j3camero: As long as you pass the turn limit and current turn number to the bots, it should be OK
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:24:32] <Zannick>	so probably dead center
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:24:37] <seigen>	j3camero: so my draw meant we freakishly had the same # of ships?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:24:41] <j3camero>	A draw only happens if the players are perfectly tied at the end of the game.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:24:45] <seigen>	whoa 0_o
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:24:53] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: but i can see strategies that rely on the number of turns to be viable
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:25:10] <Zannick>	i'll look into the map generator shortly
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:25:13] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: you are probably right.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:25:31] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: it is useful to know if the end of the game is imminent.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:25:57] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: the tournaments now are just for testing and for fun. It's not a big deal. We will worry about this issue closer to the submission deadline.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:26:48] <Zaph__>	guess we differ on the definition of "closer" :-)  you have to sort out the rules by the time it starts, you can't really go changing it a month down the track
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:27:16] <jmcarthur>	i'm kind of with Zaph__ on this one. timeout periods are one thing, but the number of turns in the game is very fundamental, IMO
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:27:39] <Zaph__>	unless, I guess, you warn everyone up front that the rules will be changing and they need to come back and rewrite their AI in the final moments
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:27:52] <j3camero>	Zaph__: why not? There is no way we can know in advance what set of specific policies we will have to settle on. If we commit to setting things in stone, then we also commit to not fixing broken policies down the road.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:27:59] <jmcarthur>	in retrospect, it may have been nice to include that information in the maps, but i guess it's too late for that
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:28:05] Join	icefox has joined this channel (~ben@c-71-192-50-29.hsd1.ma.comcast.net).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:28:22] <Zaph__>	if it's too late to include some info on the maps, why is it still ok to change the rules ?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:28:29] <seigen>	ok, my bot is crashing and the rules are in the air :) good time to call it a night
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:28:32] <seigen>	thanks all!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:28:38] <jmcarthur>	Zaph__: point
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:29:37] <Zannick>	okay, wow, well, there you go
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:29:44] <j3camero>	We could change the protocol to pass the bots the max game length. There are higher priority issues on the issue list at the moment, but I will do it if someone can submit a big patch.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:29:58] <jmcarthur>	IMO, for an AI contest, broken rules are better than variable rules
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:30:05] <Zannick>	the map generator does "random.randint(0, 5)" for the planet in the center
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:30:22] <jmcarthur>	okay, we need to get on that patch
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:30:26] Quit	seigen has left this server (Quit: leaving).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:30:31] <Zaph__>	I do lots of programming contests, the beta testing period should be used to lock down the ruleset and the rules should only change due to extraordinary circumstances.   We've got a few days and a bunch of people to quickly turn around some changes before going live
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:30:37] <Zannick>	that would be why about 1/6 of the maps have a planet with a growth of 0
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:30:42] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: this is why we open sourced it. You can help us make the contest better!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:30:57] <tapwater>	bleh, my bot is still crashing
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:31:12] <Zannick>	i don't even want to make a patch for this; it's a one-character change :P
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:31:26] <j3camero>	Zaph__: You're right. I don't disagree. It's just that we're short of manpower. If someone submits the patch, we can fix it.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:31:30] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: what is included in an acceptable patch? engines only? would starter packs also have to be updated before anything is accepted?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:31:51] <icefox>	is it ok to put my code up on github or is that against the spirit of the contest until it is over?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:31:53] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: yeah, we would have to update everything so that it all works.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:32:03] <jmcarthur>	ugh
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:32:04] <j3camero>	icefox: go ahead!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:32:13] <mightybyte>	Hopefully the game length restriction will be lifted for the tournament that decides the actual rankings.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:32:25] <jmcarthur>	well it can't be lifted entirely
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:32:32] <jmcarthur>	because games can go to infinity
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:32:38] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: if you want to do just a bit of it, I will apply your patch to a new branch. Then people can check out that branch and continue the work. When the branch "works", we will merge it into trunk.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:32:40] <jmcarthur>	it's different from tron that way
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:33:47] <Zannick>	so
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:33:56] <Zannick>	should the 0-growth planets be considered a bug?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:33:56] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: in fact, if you want to volunteer to take the lead on updating the communication protocol, I will give you committer access and you can run the branch yourself. Yeah?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:34:08] Join	smhanov has joined this channel (cef88299@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.248.130.153).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:34:15] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: i can't commit to that, sadly
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:34:16] <madsy>	Ookay.. I have the weirdest bug ever
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:34:21] <j3camero>	Zannick: yes, zero growth planets are dumb. Submit an issue (and maybe a patch along with it)?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:34:36] <madsy>	For some obscure reason, the compiler skips a complete object instantation
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:34:37] <jmcarthur>	my only potential source of income in the near future is this web app that i should be working on in the first place
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:34:39] <Zannick>	j3camero: this is a one-character fix, i'm just going to give a line number and a string
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:34:48] <j3camero>	Okay I am off to fix a shitload of issues now. I will be back tomorrow!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:35:20] <j3camero>	Zannick: sadly, it is more than one character. Both engines have to be updated, and all the starter packages.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:35:39] <Zannick>	uh...
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:35:43] <icefox>	Zannick: why would a 0 growth planet be a bug?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:35:45] <Zannick>	this is the map generator
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:35:56] <smhanov>	Are there negative growth planets?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:35:58] <j3camero>	Zannick: oh yes by all means.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:36:07] <Zannick>	changing the maps is not part of this
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:36:09] <j3camero>	Zannick: I will fix it now, thanks for pointing it out!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:36:12] <Zannick>	and the engine doesn't care
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:36:19] <icefox>	0 growth planets are useful.  They are locations to store fleets
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:36:34] <j3camero>	icefox: the problem is drawing them. Its confusing.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:36:51] Quit	phreeza has left this server (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:37:00] <j3camero>	Okay seriously going now. I gotta focus on actually fixing issues that will frustrate people incredibly.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:37:02] <Mathnerd314>	smhanov: no, because nobody would ever use them
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:37:21] <Mathnerd314>	j3camero: yes, start with issue 61 :p
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:37:29] <icefox>	Mathnerd314: you could trick other bots to go to them
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:37:37] <Zaph__>	0 growth planets separate the good AI from the bad AI :-)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:38:06] <Zannick>	0 growth planets separate the bad AI from the AI that have a one-line check that the growth is positive
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:38:31] <mightybyte>	Zannick: Not true
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:39:02] <jmcarthur>	0-growth planets could be useful
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:39:06] <Zannick>	fine, it separates the AIs that check for it from the AIs that don't
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:39:29] <Zannick>	a 0-growth planet only costs you ships, never gains you any
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:39:37] <mightybyte>	Zannick: No, it separates AIs that are aware of the uses of 0-growth planets from those that aren't.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:40:11] <jmcarthur>	what if there was a 0-growth right next to a tasty planet with the oponent's main force? you could accumulate a bunch of troops there and effectively pin your opponent to that planet out of fear that you will overrun it the moment he pulls ships from it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:40:35] <ulope>	Why would you ever want to capture a 0-g planet? What gain is there to be had?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:40:36] <Zannick>	only if your opponent programmed fear into his bot :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:40:38] <jmcarthur>	the fact that it has 0 growth is not so bad
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:40:51] <jmcarthur>	as long as you can still grow elsewhere
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:40:54] <mightybyte>	ulope: Position
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:40:55] <icefox>	Or a place to put ships half way between two high growth to go to the defense where needed
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:40:59] <icefox>	fastest
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:41:10] <jmcarthur>	yeah a 0 growth planet can also be a great waypoint
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:41:18] <jmcarthur>	you get a chance to turn around
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:41:44] <Zannick>	hm, i should upload an extremely silly bot
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:42:04] <ulope>	mightybyte: ok, maybe but depending on the initial "load" you still have to expend ships on it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:42:24] <mightybyte>	ulope: It's not about expending ships.  It's about positioning ships.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:43:19] <icefox>	This will be about bots that only attack+def vs those that attack + def + position
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:43:28] <ulope>	mightybyte: yeah I understand that, but if the planet has an inital "native" load of ships you will first ahve to overcome those while you could use the same ships to capture a palent taht woill produce more ships
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:43:49] <Zannick>	the game is actually "get more ships"
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:43:51] <icefox>	it might be worth it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:44:11] <icefox>	the game it get more ships than the other team
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:44:20] <Zannick>	well, i am not submitting the bug, so if jeff changes it, he changes it
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:49:10] <Mathnerd314>	so, if one oversends ships from a planet, you die?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:49:47] <tapwater>	Mathnerd314: I think your bot just gets disqualified
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:50:08] <j3camero>	Mathnerd: way to go submitting an issue with a patch. Much appreciated!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:50:15] <j3camero>	That helps me fix things really fast.
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:53:50] <javagamer>	Hey, next time registration gets opened can someone poke me?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:55:08] <icefox>	Anyone submitted a clojure starter package yet?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:58:09] <danielvf>	Just got ships moving in the visualizer. http://brains.s3.amazonaws.com/posts/2010/vis1/index.html
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:58:48] <danielvf>	( Javache and I are collaborating )
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:58:58] <tapwater>	cool stuff!!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:59:07] <tapwater>	does it load faster than the java version?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:59:09] <Zaph__>	danielvf: Nice
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:59:16] <danielvf>	WWWWWAY faster
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:59:20] <tapwater>	what am I saying, it must
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:59:22] <danielvf>	It's browser based
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:59:30] <Zaph__>	yeah, seems fast
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:59:30] <Zannick>	oh god ahahahahaha
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [20:59:46] <Zannick>	i made a typo and now the bot i made which should have been guaranteed to always lose is winning
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:02:41] <Zannick>	wow,
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:02:43] <jmcarthur>	danielvf: that's awesome!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:02:53] <jmcarthur>	Zannick: that's awesome!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:02:58] <danielvf>	Thanks!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:03:42] <icefox>	danielvf: very nice.  Just need a javascript starter package now :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:03:44] Quit	Zaph__ has left this server (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:04:18] <Zannick>	yeah, i'm packaging this and uploading it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:04:27] <danielvf>	Though about it. I've been doing a lot of javascript work lately.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:04:29] <Zannick>	this is a great betatest bot
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:04:41] <jmcarthur>	oh no
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:05:20] <Zannick>	also, editing the makefile so "make zip" does the right thing: totally pro
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:05:51] <danielvf>	Zannick: Good build scripts are life savers
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:07:47] <Zannick>	all it does is copy the source files into a directory named my username, and then zips that
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:07:59] <j3camero>	Tell me about it. I've got a killer makefile that just builds all the starter packages, along with all the shit that goes in them.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:08:36] <Zannick>	well, it built
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:08:41] <Zannick>	now...we wait
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:09:12] <jmcarthur>	yay for darcs dist
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:09:30] <Zannick>	j3camero: haha nice
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:09:53] <Zannick>	man, i coded up this bot in under 2 minutes
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:10:02] <Zannick>	i wanna see how well people can defuse its strategy
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:10:12] <Zannick>	and if ;D
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:10:26] <tapwater>	Zannick: what's your username?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:10:31] <Zannick>	bswolf
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:10:46] <tapwater>	I see..
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:10:54] <Zannick>	hm?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:10:55] <tapwater>	did you happen to grab a beta account?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:11:04] <Zannick>	yeah, i got one last night
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:11:10] <Zannick>	just uploaded though
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:11:14] <tapwater>	cool :D
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:11:19] <Zannick>	someone said ~5 mins.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:11:55] <j3camero>	It may take longer because the scheduler is kind of stupid right now.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:12:07] <j3camero>	Anyone want to fix the scheduler so it is not random?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:12:11] <Zannick>	lol cheesebot
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:13:57] <tapwater>	man I wish these games lasted a bit longer
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:14:04] <tapwater>	or maybe I need to make my bot more efficient...
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:14:17] <Zannick>	wow, the forums
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:15:22] <mightybyte>	Where's the bug reporting I keep hearing about?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:15:41] <Zannick>	there's a link in the topic
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:16:17] <mightybyte>	Ahh, thanks.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:18:53] Join	Max has joined this channel (86e1bccb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.134.225.188.203).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:19:22] Nick	Max is now known as Guest91884.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:19:38] <Guest91884>	Hi
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:19:44] Nick	Guest91884 is now known as Max42.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:19:49] <Max42>	grrr
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:20:02] <tapwater>	hi
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:20:56] <Max42>	I was just wondering how many people were there :). I need to go to bed it's late (2:20 am)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:21:10] <Max42>	see you guys
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:21:15] <mightybyte>	Does the server start a new process for each bot every move or does it use one process per bot per game?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:21:34] Quit	Max42 has left this server (Client Quit).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:21:49] <Zannick>	one process
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:22:00] Join	zaphus has joined this channel (~AndChat@120.156.226.81).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:24:01] <j3camero>	I am about to update the server max game length to 200. I will add a note in the FAQ about it, too. Will this work? We still may change it later, if we find that people aren't getting enough play. The other option is to light up more workhorse servers to handle the load.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:25:58] <zaphus>	If people read the faq it will help. The c starter package has 1000 turn limit by default, you should change those to match the rules
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:25:58] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: i think at the least that the number should change slowly if at all, but be fixed for the second month or so
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:26:18] <jmcarthur>	and any changes to it should be stated loudly
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:28:48] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: yes I agree. We don't want to confuse people or fuck their carefully tuned bots.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:29:15] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: yes I think that the number should probably have settled down by the time we're into the second month.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:29:23] <zaphus>	200 turns can mean 7 minute games :-)  but I don't see a way around it other than a known limit and 200 seems a good compromise
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:29:24] <Zannick>	yeah, that server game matcher...
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:29:37] <Zannick>	someone who submitted a minute after me has played 5 games, i have none
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:29:53] <j3camero>	Idea: I could add a note about the turn limit to the visualizer page, right under the viz area. I could also put a note there about other issues that are confusing, until such time as they're fixed.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:30:03] <zaphus>	I played max twice in a row
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:30:06] <j3camero>	Zannick: yeah haha it sucks balls.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:30:18] <j3camero>	We need a better scheduler, for sure.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:31:05] <Zannick>	haha, found another bug. profile_games.php doesn't put the user's name
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:31:46] <jmcarthur>	i am not good at watching a replay and picking out flaws
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:32:33] <j3camero>	Zannick: now that's an issue you can submit a patch for :-) There are probably lots of little shitty things like this lying around. Some pages on the website are still completely broken. Like the country and org profiles.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:32:41] <zaphus>	Maybe set a date for penalizing the rules, reset the ladder at that date - say 1 month from end.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:33:48] <zaphus>	Finalizing, spellchecker on phone
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:35:10] <jmcarthur>	i love that the scores are elo from the very beginning this time
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:35:24] <jmcarthur>	i'm a lot more confident in the scores than i was with the tron contest
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:35:29] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: yeah elo scoring is the bomb. It worked so well last time.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:35:49] <j3camero>	Whoever alerted us to the existence of bayeselo is awesome.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:35:58] <mightybyte>	Why don't you use the scheduler from last time?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:36:05] <mightybyte>	...or at least use that as a starting point
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:36:16] <jmcarthur>	what's up with the scheduler?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:36:47] <mightybyte>	jmcarthur: See Zannick's comment above.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:37:04] <j3camero>	The scheduler just picks random pairs of submissions right now. It's pretty fail.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:37:11] <j3camero>	We gotta fix it before the contest opens.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:37:27] <j3camero>	Any volunteers?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:37:36] <mightybyte>	Seems like that would carry over from contest to contest pretty well.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:37:44] <Mathnerd314>	j3camero: which file?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:38:02] <j3camero>	If anyone wants to take a serious crack at it, I will hook you up with read-only database access, as well as committer access on the repo. You will probably need those.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:38:33] <j3camero>	Ah, forget it. You would also need to test on some sort of live environment. Forget it. I will fix it myself... some time...
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:38:48] <jmcarthur>	i thought tournaments around elo were basically supposed to just pick players that are close in score
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:38:58] <j3camero>	However, help fixing other issues would be greatly appreciated so I could have more time to fix the scheduler!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:39:09] <j3camero>	Yeah jmcarthur that's how I want it to work.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:39:32] <jmcarthur>	okay
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:39:50] <jmcarthur>	does your elo score get reset when you reupload?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:39:52] <j3camero>	The best algorithm is as follows: player A is the active submission with the least games played so far. Player B is a random submission within ten ranks of player A.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:40:07] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: yeah the slate is wiped clean when you resubmit.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:40:14] <jmcarthur>	okay
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:40:43] <j3camero>	It's not actually ELO scores. They are bayesian estimates of your elo score.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:40:48] <jmcarthur>	right
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:41:27] <jmcarthur>	actually, is it possible to show the confidence interval of your estimated score on the rankings page?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:41:33] <jmcarthur>	that might be nice
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:41:50] <jmcarthur>	or at least on the player page
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:42:30] <zaphus>	Do the schedule on least games in the last x hours, to stop people being starved
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:43:12] <jmcarthur>	agreed
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:43:15] Quit	smhanov has left this server (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:43:46] <tapwater>	schedulers are an ai problem on their own...
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:44:43] <zaphus>	Next contest, j3c supplies the bots, we write competing schedules
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:46:35] <a1k0n>	they decided not to show confidence intervals last time so as to avoid casting doubt on the official results
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:46:55] <a1k0n>	also printing shit to stderr is "timing out" my bot :(
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:47:23] <jmcarthur>	if the confidence intervals were that bad then perhaps doubt would have been deserved?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:47:27] <a1k0n>	and trying to visualize a 400-turn game takes several minutes?  come on
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:48:36] Quit	zaphus has left this server (Quit: Bye).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:48:42] <a1k0n>	whoa my bot is really miscomputing things.  hahaha
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:48:58] <a1k0n>	no wonder it took 400 turns
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:49:54] <j3camero>	http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=4414126 feedback?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:50:03] <j3camero>	I added some FAQs to the visualizer page.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:50:11] <j3camero>	Hopefully people will come across those pretty easily.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:50:25] <a1k0n>	j3camero: i see an empty white field with playback buttons (which are slightly cut off)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:50:26] <j3camero>	Also, phreeza rapes my bot, lol
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:50:59] <a1k0n>	man java applets are terrible.  no wonder flash won
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:51:02] <j3camero>	a1k0n: is it not loading at all? Do you have Java applets turned on? The visualizer needs work, for sure.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:51:26] <a1k0n>	j3camero: most of hte time the visualizer works but on that game i get everything but the actual game
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:51:36] <Zannick>	ahahaha
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:51:39] <Zannick>	my bot is losing
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:51:42] <Zannick>	as it should
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:52:51] <jmcarthur>	which one is yours?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:53:55] <Zannick>	bswolf
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:54:04] <Zannick>	it has a very simple strategy
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:54:26] <Zannick>	which appears to beat the example bots in 300 turns
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:54:55] <jmcarthur>	ah
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:55:19] <jmcarthur>	do you like working for google?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:55:33] <Zannick>	i'm enjoying it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:55:40] <Zannick>	whoa i won
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:55:58] <Zannick>	oh, ahahaha
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:56:09] <Zannick>	i took the center, that's why
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:56:30] <jmcarthur>	lol you bot is amazing
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:56:33] <jmcarthur>	*your
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:56:37] Join	inverselimit has joined this channel (~jason@h116.119.232.68.ip.windstream.net).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:56:46] <Zannick>	like i said, very simple strategy
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:57:07] <Zannick>	not at all what i've been planning
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:58:21] <jmcarthur>	honestly i'm surprised it's not doing a little better
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:58:26] <jmcarthur>	despite being naive
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:58:52] <j3camero>	Okay, time for another round of beta testers? Who wants an account?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:59:15] <inverselimit>	account please?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:59:22] <j3camero>	Account creation is now open. Everybody create an account and start submitting bots!\
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:59:23] <philipj_>	me!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:59:37] <j3camero>	But PLEASE don't tell the rest of the internet.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [21:59:47] <Zannick>	it does badly when the enemy manages to upset the balance, or when the enemy stays away from my bot completely
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:00:14] <javagamer>	Yay!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:00:43] <j3camero>	Accounts for all! Everybody who is here should create an account and starter submitting bots, even if you only submit the starter package!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:00:48] Join	lambdabot has joined this channel (~lambdabot@li85-105.members.linode.com).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:01:06] <jmcarthur>	bots are handy to have around sometimes :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:01:15] <javagamer>	Wahoo! I'm in.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:02:13] <j3camero>	Nice, javagamer :-)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:02:16] <Mathnerd314>	lambdabot ?!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:02:48] <Mathnerd314>	> take 10 [1..]
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:02:49] <lambdabot>	  [1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10]
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:02:57] <lambdabot>	Mathnerd314 what?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:03:13] <jmcarthur>	Mathnerd314: :P
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:03:25] <Mathnerd314>	just... odd to see a bot. particularly one that responds :p
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:03:29] Quit	drewrobb has left this server (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:03:36] <j3camero>	Oh is lambdabot actually a bot?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:03:40] <jmcarthur>	i didn't bring her in to spam the channel. just so we can use her @tell command and things like that
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:03:44] <jmcarthur>	yeah
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:03:52] <j3camero>	Oh nice. What's it for?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:04:04] <jmcarthur>	she's just a very general bot written in haskell
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:04:09] <j3camero>	Oh nice.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:04:09] <jmcarthur>	say you were away...
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:04:17] <jmcarthur>	@tell j3camero hey i need to tell you this!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:04:18] <lambdabot>	Consider it noted.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:04:24] <jmcarthur>	and then you come back...
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:04:28] <jmcarthur>	(say something)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:04:29] Join	hyperwulf has joined this channel (~hyperwulf@206-248-161-147.dsl.teksavvy.com).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:04:29] <hyperwulf>	amstan: here I am!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:04:34] <amstan>	hyperwulf: hi
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:04:34] <hyperwulf>	hi amstan
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:04:38] <amstan>	hyperwulf: rankings
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:04:38] <hyperwulf>	Top 10 players: phreeza, zaphus, Max, cheese_bot, jdonland, seigen, bswolf, j3camero, mistabell, rmotome
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:04:50] <amstan>	hyperwulf: good boy
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:04:50] <hyperwulf>	woof
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:04:52] <j3camero>	yo
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:04:53] <lambdabot>	j3camero: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:05:10] <Zannick>	whoa
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:05:30] <amstan>	awww! come on! i tought i was the only one here with a bot
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:05:32] <Zannick>	oh, i see
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:05:42] <Zannick>	my rating went up a few minutes after my last win
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:05:48] <j3camero>	Oh snap. That's cool.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:05:48] <amstan>	hyperwulf: rankings 4
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:05:48] <jmcarthur>	amstan: it's not my bot, at least :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:05:50] <hyperwulf>	Top 4 players: phreeza, zaphus, Max, cheese_bot
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:05:57] <jmcarthur>	@help
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:05:57] <lambdabot>	help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:06:10] <amstan>	so.. who's bot?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:06:11] <jmcarthur>	woops, i meant to use @list (just gives a link)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:06:23] <jmcarthur>	amstan: it's a collaborative effort by a bunch of people in #haskell
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:06:36] <amstan>	jmcarthur: oh.. right.. i was reading about that
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:06:41] <amstan>	but.. does it do this:
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:06:43] <amstan>	hw howl
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:06:44] 	 * hyperwulf howls at the moon.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:06:44] <hyperwulf>	AAAaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuuUUUUUUUUU!!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:06:51] <jmcarthur>	@slap hyperwulf
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:06:52] 	 * lambdabot will count to five...
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:07:16] <jmcarthur>	@vixen You're a better bot than hyperwulf, aren't you?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:07:18] <lambdabot>	like those damn porn spam bots?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:07:20] <j3camero>	Okay 20 more minutes of bug fixing then I am going to go hit the hot tubs: http://picasaweb.google.com/cameron.jp/TorontoApartment#5499464882010200322
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:07:21] <amstan>	mine's python
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:08:10] <amstan>	j3camero: that's epic
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:08:12] <Zannick>	guys we already have an ai contest going on
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:08:15] <jmcarthur>	lol
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:08:25] <amstan>	but mine howls!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:08:28] <jmcarthur>	really i only brought her in for practical reasons
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:08:34] <amstan>	her? lol
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:08:39] <Zannick>	i have an irc bot that tells jokes
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:08:47] <Zannick>	i don't feel the need to bring it in here, though :P
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:08:49] <jmcarthur>	just use a /msg session if anybody else wants to experiment
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:09:08] <jmcarthur>	amstan: yeah, lambdabot is a female. you got a problem with females?
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:09:29] <amstan>	HarryD|c1: idk if you're familiar with hyperwulf
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:09:40] <HarryD|c1>	you mean your sauer mod?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:09:48] Nick	HarryD|c1 is now known as HarryD|cb.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:09:50] <amstan>	no, the bot
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:09:59] <HarryD|cb>	then no
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:10:08] <ulope>	amstan: I've put up a simple script at https://gist.github.com/269523868dc79e21f75f that will install python2.7 into /opt/python2.7 without disturbing the "system python". I've tested in a clean 8.04 vm just now.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:10:38] <j3camero>	ulope: that is cool. Perhaps we can use that to offer a better python.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:10:56] <amstan>	j3camero: yes, i instructed them to work on that
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:11:05] <j3camero>	ulope: would you file an issue here to remind me? http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/list
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:11:21] <ulope>	j3camero: sure
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:11:22] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: i am also working on a script to set up a reasonable ghc :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:11:30] <j3camero>	Put in a link to your script and a description of the problem etc. Thanks!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:11:49] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: wicked. Look forward to seeing that. You guys are the best kind of users.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:11:57] <jmcarthur>	:D
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:12:24] <HarryD|cb>	hehe
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:12:39] <HarryD|cb>	even dial-up is light speed
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:12:43] <amstan>	philhassey: welcome
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:13:12] <philhassey>	hey!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:13:14] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: now... it's looking like it needs to be built from source (the prebuilt binaries seem to segfault on ubuntu 8.04 for some reason). is it okay if this script takes a long time to complete? it's just the beta period, after all
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:14:39] <amstan>	philhassey: well.. everyone's in here to solve galcon. how does it feel?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:15:21] <j3camero>	Oh hey it's Phil Hassey. For those of you who don't know him, Phil is the creator of Galcon.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:15:39] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: yep that's fine.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:15:47] <philhassey>	i'm excited to see what happens :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:15:52] <j3camero>	Yeah me too.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:16:02] <Mathnerd314>	philhassey: planning to compete? :-)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:16:17] <j3camero>	philhassey: there is no way you can't compete :-)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:16:33] <jmcarthur>	heh
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:16:36] <philhassey>	maybe?  i might just enter the standard galcon bot and see how it does
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:17:51] <Zannick>	oops found another error
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:17:56] <Zannick>	"sucessfully entered into contest"
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:18:50] <j3camero>	Zannick: details?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:19:16] <Zannick>	j3camero: on the profile page, under recent submissions, successfully is missing a 'c'
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:19:37] Quit	HarryD|cb has left this server (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:20:21] <j3camero>	Zannick: aha nice. I will go ahead and fix that now.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:20:28] <ulope>	j3camero: Issue created: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/detail?id=65
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:20:38] <j3camero>	ulope: thanks!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:20:56] <Zannick>	ahaha phreeza vs UloPee
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:21:08] <Zannick>	that endgame is hilarious
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:21:08] <amstan>	hw rankings
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:21:10] <hyperwulf>	Top 10 players: phreeza, zaphus, Max, cheese_bot, jdonland, seigen, bswolf, mistabell, j3camero, rmotome
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:21:33] <jmcarthur>	that's pretty nice
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:21:40] <Zaph_>	j3camero:  You need a link to the Android version of GalCon on teh homepage as well, not just the iPhone version :-)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:22:46] <ulope>	Zannick: considering that my bot isn't doing anything :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:23:59] <j3camero>	amstan: oh snap. That is so useful. I predict people will use it to settle arguments when they're feeling cocky.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:24:13] <amstan>	yep
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:24:23] <j3camero>	Is there anyone here on Mac OS?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:24:48] <j3camero>	I just made a fix to one of the issues affecting Mac users. I want to see if it worked...
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:25:00] <Zannick>	ulope: yeah
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:25:10] <Zannick>	the endgame was ~100 turns of both bots just sitting
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:25:55] <ulope>	j3camero: /me is using mac os
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:26:51] Quit	hyperwulf has left this server (Remote host closed the connection).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:27:14] <jmcarthur>	syntaxglitch!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:27:23] <jmcarthur>	didn't notice when you joined
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:27:36] <amstan>	what would be a good interval for rankings updates?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:27:40] <amstan>	30 min?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:27:44] <syntaxglitch>	jmcarthur, evenin'
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:27:53] <jmcarthur>	amstan: how hard is it on the server?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:28:04] <amstan>	jmcarthur: it's just a http request
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:28:11] <jmcarthur>	oh you mean the bot
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:28:12] <amstan>	for the bot i meant
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:28:13] <amstan>	yes
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:28:14] <jmcarthur>	i was mixed up
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:28:20] <jmcarthur>	every hour
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:28:24] <amstan>	k
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:28:25] <jmcarthur>	we don't want too much spam
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:28:30] 	 * Zannick examines the tournament manager
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:28:59] <j3camero>	ulope: Can you try submitting a bot and let me know if it works? I assume you were unable to submit before this?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:29:12] <jmcarthur>	did somebody bring in HungerBot just because there are already two other bots here?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:29:58] <j3camero>	Zannick: what are you finding in the TM?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:30:00] <ulope>	j3camero: no I could submit fine. But I'm using chrome.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:30:04] <Zannick>	HungerBot is using the web interface
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:30:13] <jmcarthur>	ah
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:30:13] <j3camero>	ulope: how were you packaging your bot?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:30:20] <Zannick>	j3camero: i'm trying to come up with something better than two random users
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:30:20] <jmcarthur>	unlikely to be a bot then
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:30:53] <ulope>	j3camero: my bot directly in the root of a zip (not insode a folder)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:30:58] <j3camero>	Zannick: right on, man. Although it must be difficult, since you can't see the DB schema, and can't test since you don't have access to the live DB?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:31:06] <Zannick>	yeah, well
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:31:10] <j3camero>	ulope: cool makes sense.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:31:16] <Zannick>	i can at least suggest some thing :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:31:22] <j3camero>	True true.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:31:23] <Zaph_>	FYI - I get "Uploads Disabled" when I view the upload page on my Android phone (I am logged in).   Odd place to be uploading from, but technically I might want to do it (my internet connection was down, so I sent the file to the phone and was going to upload)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:31:24] <jmcarthur>	Zannick: pick the player who has seen the least activity within some duration. pit that player against somebody within n ranks of it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:32:01] <j3camero>	jmcarthur and Zannick: that's the best algorithm yep.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:32:02] <Zannick>	j3camero: like, did you know you can use random.sample(L, 2) to pick two unique elements from L?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:32:20] <j3camero>	Zannick: nope. I am a python noob.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:32:30] <Zannick>	python's a pretty cool guy
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:33:00] <jmcarthur>	you guys just need haskell... i mean enlightenment :)
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:33:09] <hyperwulf>	amstan: here I am!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:33:09] <hyperwulf>	Top 10 players: phreeza(54), zaphus(33), Max(23), cheese_bot(15), seigen(6), jdonland(2), amstan(-13), rmotome(-13), jeff_cameron(-14), dtkatch(-14)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:33:13] <Zannick>	not knowing the DB schema (and being fairly unfamiliar with sql) makes it tough
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:33:36] <j3camero>	Zannick: yup it does.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:33:46] <amstan>	j3camero: there.. now it does elo score too
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:33:46] <Zannick>	though i suppose i can figure it out by looking at all the updates
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:33:47] <Zaph_>	still waiting for the phreeza-zaphus matchup :-)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:34:03] <Zaph_>	elo/10 anyway
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:34:14] <syntaxglitch>	jmcarthur, we need to make sure plenty of Haskell people participate
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:34:17] <Mathnerd314>	j3camero: my bot seems to be taking ages to compile. (another Java bot)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:34:18] <j3camero>	I have to go in and add 2000 to all the elo scores like I did last time.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:34:20] <amstan>	Zaph_: no, it's the same elo you find on the rankings page
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:34:26] <jmcarthur>	syntaxglitch: we definitely do
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:34:35] <j3camero>	Mathnerd314: yeah I broke the compile pipeline pretty sure. Hang on...
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:34:44] <Zaph_>	really, it says phreeza(54) but the ranking page says 545
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:34:58] <amstan>	zomg, you're right..
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:35:01] <jmcarthur>	lol
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:35:07] <jmcarthur>	i thought it was intentional to save space
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:35:15] <amstan>	my bad with the parsing
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:35:23] <amstan>	ideally you would do this with json..
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:35:37] <j3camero>	oh there we go. I just forgot to turn the compile pipeline back on after I "fixed" it for the mac os people.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:35:38] <tapwater>	Zannick: interesting strategy you implemented
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:35:53] <Zannick>	tapwater: a very quick temporary one
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:36:03] <jmcarthur>	i'm going to be mixing up Zannick and Zaph_ for a whole two months
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:36:08] <j3camero>	Okay, anyone else in here want a beta testing account? Probably the last call for the night.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:36:09] <Zannick>	hahaha
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:36:09] <tapwater>	Zannick: must have been fun lol
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:36:20] <Zannick>	took me all of 2 minutes to code
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:36:34] <Zannick>	and it's been 40 minutes without a game :P
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:37:00] Quit	HarryD|cb has left this server (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:37:06] <Mathnerd314>	j3camero: last year, I wanted to use java namespaces (which require a folder structure). I'm guessing that's still hard to do this year?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:37:14] <jmcarthur>	Zaph_: that matchup finally happened
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:37:16] <j3camero>	ulope: can you try submitting a zip file with the main source file inside a folder (not in the root of the zip file)? Package it using the default method that would be used by a n00b using mac.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:37:23] <tapwater>	yay I beat phreeza!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:37:34] <j3camero>	Mathnerd314: yep it prolly won't work.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:37:54] <jmcarthur>	wait, why wouldn't it work?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:38:12] Quit	hyperwulf has left this server (Remote host closed the connection).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:38:17] <jmcarthur>	oh, java doesn't have a convenient dependency chasing build system built in
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:38:17] <ihodes>	question about using Clojure/other langs–does it look like they might be added before it all starts?
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:38:30] <hyperwulf>	amstan: here I am!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:38:30] <hyperwulf>	Top 10 players: zaphus(425), phreeza(418), cheese_bot(234), Max(232), seigen(39), jdonland(15), amstan(-138), bswolf(-139), rmotome(-141), dtkatch(-151)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:38:44] <amstan>	there... the whole number now
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:38:53] <Mathnerd314>	ihodes: if there's a starter package, yes
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:39:23] <Zaph_>	just in time for my triumph :-)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:39:36] <ulope>	j3camero: Ok, I uploaded a zip with a folder in the root level
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:39:37] <ihodes>	Mathnerd314: there is one posted on the forums–i made a github repo with it here: http://github.com/ihodes/ai-contest-planet-wars-clj
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:39:42] <j3camero>	ihodes: it's up to you. The admins are too busy to make the starter package themselves. Make it, and we can probably get support for Cljure up and running.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:39:53] <j3camero>	ulope: cool. Let me know if it compiles okay.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:39:55] Join	antrimatroidUni has joined this channel (83d90607@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.217.6.7).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:39:56] <amstan>	j3camero: hold on.. how can i not do updates deletes or inserts? what about adding new schools and all that
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:40:17] <hyperwulf>	rankings
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:40:27] <philhassey>	j3camero: can i get a beta account?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:40:27] <j3camero>	amstan: use your best judgement. If there is an operation where nothing can go wrong (like adding a new org) then go ahead.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:40:49] <jmcarthur>	> liftA2 (zipWith (-)) id tail $ [425,418,234,232,39,15,-138,-139,-141,-151]
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:40:50] <lambdabot>	  [7,184,2,193,24,153,1,2,10]
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:40:56] <j3camero>	philhassey: but of course. I will open account creation. Go ahead and sign up for an account on the website in 30 seconds.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:40:59] <jmcarthur>	not as even a spread as i thought it would be
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:41:02] <ulope>	j3camero: It seems to have worked
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:41:04] <ihodes>	j3camero: it's here: http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=673630 I already made it!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:41:06] <ihodes>	oops
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:41:13] <ihodes>	github.com/ihodes/ai-contest-planet-wars-clj
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:41:37] <Mathnerd314>	amstan: could you just let organization be a free-form text field?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:42:02] <jmcarthur>	^^ that's the distance between each consequtive player in the top ten, if it wasn't clear
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:42:12] <j3camero>	ulope: awesome. I will close that issue then.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:42:32] <amstan>	Mathnerd314: then you can't have rankings pages for each organization
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:42:33] <Zannick>	well, all of the organizations seem to be invalid according to organization_profile.php
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:42:41] <Zaph_>	philhassey:  Would love to see your ingame AI competing, they should let you leave that as a single submission as a benchmark and you can make another for competing (e.g. make a GalCon account with your game AI in it)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:42:44] <amstan>	Zannick: yes, i just noticed
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:42:44] <philhassey>	j3camero: thanks, i've signed in
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:43:10] <j3camero>	ihodes: that thread doesn't seem to have anything to do with a clojure starter package. Can you point me to you clojure starter package?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:43:14] <jmcarthur>	awesome. we'll be competing with the original AI?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:43:20] <j3camero>	philhassey: awesome. Let me know what you think.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:43:27] <ihodes>	j3camero: sorry about that: it's here: www.github.com/ihodes/ai-contest-planet-wars-clj
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:43:29] <jmcarthur>	(which of course was designed to play against human opponents)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:43:50] <Mathnerd314>	amstan: just compare them by using Google's "I'm Feeling Lucky" result URL
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:43:51] <philhassey>	hmn, yeah maybe i should create 2 accounts in case i do that ..
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:44:17] <amstan>	Mathnerd314: that is very complicated..
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:44:30] <j3camero>	ihodes: I have created an issue. I will do my best to support Clojure. Thanks so much for the starter package! :-) http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/detail?id=66
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:44:37] <Mathnerd314>	amstan: ok, I'll try a patch :p
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:44:55] <ihodes>	j3camero: no problem! I did it selfishly, of course :) I was to use Clojure
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:44:56] <amstan>	Mathnerd314: i don't think jeff will go for it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:44:59] <ihodes>	want to use*
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:45:17] Quit	HungerBot has left this server (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:45:33] <j3camero>	What would I not go for? (amstan)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:45:55] <amstan>	j3camero: he wants to make the organization field to be a textbox instead of a select box, where you can write anything
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:46:39] <j3camero>	amstan: I don't think that's really what he wants. Then there would be a difference between University of Waterloo and Waterloo University. People would have trouble finding their school rankings.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:47:01] <antrimatroidUni>	for the website, could we see the number of wins/loses/draws for teach bot in the leaderboards as well as ELO rankings? Also, in the final tournament, would you guys be willing to leave a live leaderboard up while disabling viewing games?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:47:41] <j3camero>	antrimatroidUni: If we can fit the columns without breaking the site on some browsers, I don't see why not.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:47:46] <Zannick>	yeah, i have no idea
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:48:14] <j3camero>	antrimatroidUni: another idea is to display people's win/loss/draw count on their profile page. What do you think?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:48:51] <antrimatroidUni>	j3camero: I think the first option is better, but would live with that otherwise ;)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:49:12] <antrimatroidUni>	I think a live leaderboard during the final tournament makes it more fun for the competitors, as well as giving you guys way more time to run the tournament without people getting too impatient about getting results
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:49:29] <Zannick>	ideally a good algorithm would retrieve from recent games and the ratings board
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:49:34] <Zannick>	but i do not know how to do that
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:49:39] <inverselimit>	no games yet, uploaded about 18 minutes ago.  Normal?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:49:54] <JCS^>	You could create a "basic start package" with just the game engine and basic instructions about the input a bot receives and the expected output format. It's not really important, but could help someone who don't want the given languages..
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:50:15] <Mathnerd314>	inverselimit: yes, scheduler is currently "pick two bots completely randomly"
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:50:24] <JCS^>	[it's not a real problem, since i have the delete key]
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:51:11] <j3camero>	antrimatroidUni: it's a decent idea to leave the leaderboard up. We really just took it down because it was embarassing listening to all the people crying foul play and accusations of rigging. We figured if we took it down until we had final conclusive results people would have less basis for such accusations. Maybe we don't have to worry about that so much now that all the code is open source for all to see.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:52:16] <Zaph_>	webpage bug:  The game times are shown with AM/PM, but the submission times are 24hr clock, makes it hard to compare at a glance
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:53:30] <j3camero>	Zaph_: submit an issue so I remember to fix it tomorrow, please! http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/list
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:54:07] <j3camero>	Okay guys. I would just like to say that I am a big killing machine. When I started there were like 7 high priority issues: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/list?can=2&q=&sort=priority&colspec=ID%20Type%20Status%20Priority%20Milestone%20Owner%20Summary
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:54:15] <j3camero>	bug killing*
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:54:25] <antrimatroidUni>	yep, that's fair enough, I think you should also consider extending the specified time for tunning the final tournament, and possibly even the number of turns before a draw, because at the moment games keep ending before a defininitive winner, and it's going to take longer for the scoreboard to stabilise this tme (i think)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:54:29] <j3camero>	And with that I bid you all good night.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:54:39] <tapwater>	nice work, j3camero
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:54:40] <antrimatroidUni>	night, thanks for working on all the issues
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:54:55] <j3camero>	No problem. I love it.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:55:00] <amstan>	any feature requests for the bot?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:55:20] <j3camero>	amstan: good night see you later!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:55:25] <amstan>	j3camero: cya
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:55:40] <j3camero>	amstan: thanks for all your help! I didn't even check the forums today, I am too scared of the number of new issues I will find.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:55:49] <amstan>	j3camero: not that many
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:56:11] <amstan>	j3camero: just go zzz
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:56:40] Quit	ihodes has left this server (Quit: ihodes).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:56:47] <antrimatroidUni>	have you guys considered just setting up a permanent ai website? people could continue playing around with bots for different games, then new games added once or twice a year for new tournaments
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:56:56] <amstan>	antrimatroidUni: yes, we did
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:57:04] <Zannick>	if someone has submission id X
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:57:14] <amstan>	antrimatroidUni: step one was to make it opensource
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:57:42] <Zannick>	does "SELECT MAX(timestamp) FROM games WHERE player_one = X OR player_two = X" get me the last game that submission player?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:57:47] <antrimatroidUni>	okay, well I'll happily put some time in with anything to do with that kind of thing after the contest
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:57:50] <Zannick>	*played
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:58:29] <amstan>	Zannick: i can test select statments for you if you want
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [22:58:45] <amstan>	jmcarthur: did you want something changed to your profile?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:00:05] <Zannick>	amstan: cool
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:00:12] <Zannick>	but i don't have a submission id anywhere
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:00:51] <j3camero>	antrimatroidUni: yes a permanent website is in the works.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:01:22] <j3camero>	antrimatroidUni: ideally, the goal is to let people submit new game engines just like you can submit new bots. Then the game engines would be ranked by popularity each week.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:01:33] <j3camero>	its so meta
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:01:33] <antrimatroidUni>	j3camero: well you have one volunteer here, just after my 150% load semester ends :P
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:02:18] <j3camero>	antrimatroidUni: excellent. Join the dev mailing list so that you're aware when things start rolling: http://groups.google.com/group/ai-contest-discuss
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:03:22] <j3camero>	I can clearly see that we're going to be wayyyy short of manpower while running this contest. amstan, I think we should change the exclusion policy to allow people to commit code to the contest and also participate. It's not a problem, now that it's open source. I would really like to just make everyone in this channel a committer.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:03:47] <a1k0n>	yeah it's too bad all the people participating in this contest aren't programmers
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:03:54] <Zannick>	hahaha
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:03:55] <jmcarthur>	:)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:03:57] <j3camero>	I mean, we would not be able to participate, since we're actually running the prod servers. But all the committers who are not admins could participate.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:04:02] <amstan>	j3camero: ok, we'll just check their changes before doing svn update on the production server
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:04:20] <j3camero>	a1k0n: exactly! The contestants are able to run teh cotnest themselves pretty much!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:04:30] <Zannick>	there may be a lot of changes
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:04:35] <jmcarthur>	the COTNEST
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:04:42] <antrimatroidUni>	I'd just let the contributers enter
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:04:49] <j3camero>	amstan: exactly yup. We would have to have mandatory code review. But that;'s no problem. It's how they roll over at Google, and it's a good thing.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:04:52] <antrimatroidUni>	if people want to bitch about that, tell them to go compete somewhere else
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:04:55] Quit	mog has left this server (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:05:37] <a1k0n>	i wonder if our russian friend will make an appearance
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:05:46] <antrimatroidUni>	russian friend?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:06:05] <j3camero>	Anyways, we will try to sort it out tomorrow. But everybody here should consider if they want to become a committer, and start helping us crunch through the backlog of feature requests.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:06:08] <a1k0n>	this dude who complained throughout the *entire contest* last time that the organizers were unfair and incompetent
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:06:20] <j3camero>	a1k0n: if he does not show up, I will invite him personally.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:06:34] <j3camero>	a1k0n: oh and he never did nuke the CSC.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:06:35] <amstan>	j3camero: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/wiki/OrganizingAgreement
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:06:56] <amstan>	j3camero: he didn't nuke it?? awww
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:07:00] <a1k0n>	haha well ebrahim was the one to watch for nukes
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:07:22] <antrimatroidUni>	anyway, it's time for analysis
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:07:47] <j3camero>	Looks good amstan. Just change contributors to committers, since both terms exist in our repo, and they are different.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:07:54] <amstan>	k.. everyone wanting commit access and who also wants to compete, please read this http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/wiki/OrganizingAgreement and sign it in a comment(put your contest username in there if it's not the same as you google code one)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:07:56] Quit	antrimatroidUni has left this server (Quit: Page closed).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:08:35] <amstan>	wait..
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:08:38] <j3camero>	Aight sweet. amstan, continue spreading the word. We need more devs. I will try to set this up tomorrow so we can allow more committers in an orderly way.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:08:41] <j3camero>	k\
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:08:45] <mightybyte>	a1k0n: Was ebrahim russian?  I thought he was Iranian.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:08:45] Join	mog has joined this channel (~mog@c-68-62-169-225.hsd1.al.comcast.net).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:08:46] <amstan>	nvm, no need to sign it if you're just comiting
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:09:16] <a1k0n>	he is, and his bot was part of the peaceful Iranian nuclear weap..i mean energy program
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:09:29] <mightybyte>	lol
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:11:29] <amstan>	irc bot feature requests?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:11:34] <amstan>	anyone..
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:11:53] <mightybyte>	Win the contest for me.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:12:25] Error	contestbot: No such nick/channel.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:12:42] Quit	hyperwulf has left this server (Remote host closed the connection).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:12:54] <Mathnerd314>	amstan: unless you want pm's to get more info, pretty much the only thing is the rankings
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:13:11] <amstan>	@help
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:13:12] <lambdabot>	help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:13:16] <amstan>	!help
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:13:18] <amstan>	~help
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:13:20] <amstan>	ok..
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:13:24] <amstan>	#help
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:13:45] <amstan>	which one is better, pick one: !, ~, #, @(taken)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:13:55] <Mathnerd314>	amstan: `help
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:14:30] <tapwater>	amstan: exhibition matches
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:14:32] <a1k0n>	ha the backwards play button on the visualizer plays forwards
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:14:43] <tapwater>	match <p1name> <p2name>
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:14:49] <tapwater>	returns link to view game
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:15:07] <amstan>	tapwater: that's a good idea, let me make an topic about it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:15:31] Nick	You are now known as contestbot.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:15:36] Nick	You are now known as amstan.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:15:52] Join	contestbot has joined this channel (~contestbo@nat/uwaterloo/x-gnkqtuamjiufbtwg).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:15:52] <contestbot>	Top 10 players: phreeza(484), zaphus(391), cheese_bot(390), Mathnerd314(338), Max(255), seigen(80), bswolf(47), jdonland(39), amstan(-114), rmotome(-118)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:15:56] <amstan>	cool
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:16:06] <Mathnerd314>	what? I'm player 338? p
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:16:11] <amstan>	Mathnerd314: elo score
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:16:32] <Mathnerd314>	oh, maybe put in rankings too then
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:16:35] Quit	philipj_ has left this server (Quit: Page closed).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:16:48] <a1k0n>	?  those are ranked
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:16:52] <amstan>	Mathnerd314: therey're top 10
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:17:02] Join	philipj_ has joined this channel (4ac0d906@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.192.217.6).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:17:05] <amstan>	Mathnerd314: first one's first... second's second... you get the idea
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:17:18] <Mathnerd314>	amstan: but actual numbers mean you can see what place you are
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:17:31] <millertime>	how are there ranks if it doesnt start for 3 more days? o.O
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:17:39] <amstan>	Mathnerd314: just count
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:17:46] <amstan>	millertime: beta
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:17:51] <millertime>	gotcha
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:18:06] <Zannick>	SELECT submission_id FROM submissions WHERE user_id = 3886
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:18:26] <Zannick>	amstan: can you try that? that should give me a number i can test my other commands with
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:18:26] <amstan>	Zannick: in a second..
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:19:00] <Zannick>	hahaha, another hilarious win by my bot
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:19:14] <amstan>	!rankings
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:19:15] <contestbot>	Top 10 players: phreeza(484), zaphus(391), cheese_bot(390), Mathnerd314(338), Max(255), seigen(80), bswolf(47), jdonland(39), amstan(-114), rmotome(-118)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:19:19] <amstan>	Zannick: ypi
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:19:23] <amstan>	you're phreeza?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:19:33] <Zannick>	no, bswolf
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:19:50] <millertime>	using PlayGame.jar.. is there a way to modify PlanetWars.py to hush the ouput?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:20:24] <millertime>	or with a command argument?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:20:29] <Zannick>	what part of the output?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:20:36] <Zannick>	the Turn x garbage?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:20:42] <millertime>	Turn x garbage yes :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:21:05] <Zannick>	are you on linux/unix?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:21:07] <amstan>	!hi
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:21:07] <contestbot>	hi amstan
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:21:29] <Zannick>	you can put "2>/dev/null" before the | and it should get rid of all that.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:21:39] <Zannick>	amstan: was "ypi" the result of the command?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:22:02] <mightybyte>	I wonder if the contest will degenerate into too many games like bswolf-vs-seigen
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:22:04] <amstan>	Zannick: no.. it was supposed to be "you", but i shifted over a letter when typing, and pressed enter by mistake
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:22:08] <millertime>	why the 2?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:22:09] <Zannick>	aha
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:22:18] <millertime>	i understand directing it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:22:36] <Zannick>	the stdout is already going to the ShowGame.jar, 2> does the stderr output
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:22:41] <Zannick>	which is what that actually is
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:22:49] <millertime>	ohhh wow, thanks!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:23:08] <amstan>	there we go: http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=436
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:23:14] <amstan>	Mathnerd314: http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=436
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:23:28] <millertime>	i have a python program throwing the command together for me, so that'll be an easy change :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:23:43] <HarryD|cb>	thats good
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:23:44] <Zannick>	mightybyte: well, cheese-bot does a fairly good job of defeating that strategy
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:23:47] <millertime>	i gotta get some automated testing of my bot vs all the example bots
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:23:59] <Zannick>	indeed :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:24:01] Notice	Sending notice "dude, what's up here?" to HarryD|cb.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:24:26] <millertime>	is "Player 2 wins" also going to stderr?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:24:38] <Zannick>	...yeah :/
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:24:40] <tapwater>	Zannick: your strat might work if it wasn't always one move behind
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:24:42] <millertime>	i would like the result to be catchable..
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:24:56] <mightybyte>	Zannick: Yeah, but I'm not talking about that specific strategy, but rather the possibility that multiple bots will converge on what is essentially "optimal" play and end up with drawish games like that.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:24:56] <amstan>	jmcarthur: so.. did you want me to edit your "about me"?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:25:09] <Zaph_>	I feel like I need to make clones of the best bots myself, just to test against locally - that cheese_bot is having a fun time!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:25:42] <amstan>	Zannick: 123474
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:25:43] <Zannick>	millertime: honestly i am running the server backend engine and not the PlayGame jar, and i hacked around with it a little
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:25:46] <amstan>	Zannick: your output
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:25:51] 	 * millertime waves at zacharyp
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:25:52] <Zannick>	tapwater: it works sometimes
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:25:55] <tapwater>	mightybyte: I don't think either of those bots were playing optimally :)
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:25:58] <Zannick>	it isn't supposed to, in general
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:26:02] <Zannick>	amstan: thanks!
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:26:09] <mightybyte>	tapwater: Yes, but that wasn't my point.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:26:25] <millertime>	Zannick: care to share your source?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:26:44] <tapwater>	mightybyte: out of pure curiosity, I'd like to see bots converge on an "optimal" play
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:26:48] <Zannick>	millertime: hahaha, for my joke submission?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:27:01] <Zannick>	it uses a reworked version of PlanetWars, but basically
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:27:13] <Zannick>	every turn it looks for enemy fleets that launched last turn
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:27:28] <Zannick>	and attempts to mirror it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:27:38] <amstan>	mirror bot?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:27:55] <millertime>	Zannick: no i meant the test harness
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:27:59] <Zannick>	oh
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:28:01] <Zannick>	uh
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:28:05] <mightybyte>	Are moves made simultaneously?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:28:12] <amstan>	Zannick: they had those in rps
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:28:20] 	 * Zannick confused by multiple conversations
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:28:29] <Zannick>	mightybyte: yes
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:29:03] <mightybyte>	Zannick: Then why was your bot one turn behind in that game vs seigen?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:29:09] <ulope>	Ugh already 5:30 am... need... sleep...
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:29:20] <Zannick>	mightybyte: moves are made simultaneously, as in, i don't know his moves until the next turn
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:29:23] <millertime>	sorry :P
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:29:38] <mightybyte>	Ahh, got it.  I hadn't read your above comment about the mirroring strategy.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:30:35] <Zannick>	my script is really just a run-once thing
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:30:42] <Zannick>	i don't have a full harness yet
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:30:48] <Zannick>	millertime: ^
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:31:15] <a1k0n>	asloane  41488   3.6 29.2  5711504 1223080 s005  S+    8:27PM   0:41.43 ./MyBot
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:31:18] <a1k0n>	wtfffffffffffffff
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:31:27] <Zannick>	whoops
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:31:44] <a1k0n>	it spins allocating memory after i kill it in the stock parser code?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:32:26] <millertime>	Zannick: alrighty, i'm not sure how to run the server's engine so thats why i was asking
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:32:37] <JCS^>	are the game engine sources available?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:32:45] <a1k0n>	oh sure enough, it doesn't check the return value of std::cin.get().  nice.
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:32:58] <Zannick>	amstan: SELECT MAX(timestamp) FROM games WHERE player_one = 123474 OR player_two = 123474
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:33:26] <amstan>	Zannick: 2010-09-07 22:31:28
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:33:52] <Zannick>	hm.
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[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:40:46] <Mathnerd314>	any idea why visualizer is being extra slow?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:41:07] <a1k0n>	man that sucks that if your bot outputs to stdout the game engine barfs
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:41:11] <a1k0n>	the last contest didn't care
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:41:20] <a1k0n>	Mathnerd314: it's parsing lots of text in java
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:42:01] <Zannick>	a1k0n: the game engine is nomming on the bot's stdout as the way to communicate with it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:42:09] <a1k0n>	stdout, yes, but not stderr
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:42:18] <a1k0n>	if you output to stderr it eventually "times out"
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:42:29] <Zannick>	i have not seen that occurr
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:42:41] <Zannick>	if i output to stderr it disappears but the bot keeps running
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:42:57] Quit	syntaxglitch has left this server (Quit: return ()).
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:43:00] <Zannick>	often when i do so it is because the bot has crashed, but exiting doesn't tell the engine
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:43:16] <a1k0n>	oh.  well, if you output like a line or two it doesn't.  it's after a certain amount of output
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:43:21] <Zannick>	so the engine reports that as a timeout
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:43:24] <a1k0n>	wow my bot is buggy as hell
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:43:50] <a1k0n>	i #ifdeffed my fprintf(stdout)s.  #define -> break, #undef -> works
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:44:02] <Utkarsh>	Is there any info on which version of Ruby will be used on the server?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:44:31] <a1k0n>	also, why the hell does ShowGame.java blow away log.txt
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:45:02] <a1k0n>	the nice thing about the last game was how easy it was to visualize
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:45:13] <amstan>	Utkarsh: probably the default for ubuntu 8.04
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:45:22] <a1k0n>	we need a friggin' aalib visualizer
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:45:26] <amstan>	Utkarsh: unless someone works to port it to 8.04
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:45:30] <amstan>	a1k0n: make one
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:45:59] <Mathnerd314>	a1k0n: I heard someone was writing a c++ & SDL visualizer
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:51:08] <millertime>	Zannick: so i am using regex to read results from "results.txt" :P
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:51:29] <millertime>	and piping to trash.txt :P
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:52:14] <Zannick>	not a bad idea
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:53:23] <Mathnerd314>	pipe to /dev/null :p
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:53:29] <Zannick>	hm
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:54:06] <Mathnerd314>	or better yet, take out of the source entirely to get a standalone tournament game runner
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:55:04] <Mathnerd314>	*take out the logging entirely
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:55:18] <Mathnerd314>	I'm getting incoherent; good night
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:57:21] <a1k0n>	hahahah awesome
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:57:25] <a1k0n>	my bot lost in 38 turns
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:57:39] <a1k0n>	by reducing all the big planets on the map to 0 population and taking none of them
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:57:52] <Zannick>	whoops
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:59:03] <a1k0n>	wait wut?  ok, so if a neutral planet has population 12, and you attack it with 13, shouldn't you take it?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:59:32] <jmcarthur>	bug?
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:59:39] <Mathnerd314>	there were/are a few off-by-one errors, IIRC
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:59:47] <a1k0n>	it ends up with 0 population, nobody owning it
[Tuesday 07 September 2010] [23:59:54] <jmcarthur>	http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/list
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:00:02] <Mathnerd314>	a1k0n: is this the server or the client?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:00:07] <Zannick>	a1k0n: when did you download that pack?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:00:18] <Zannick>	that is a bug i fixed yesterday or so
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:00:21] <a1k0n>	omg my bot is breaking the java engine
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:00:29] <a1k0n>	oh, back when it was announced.  guess i should update
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:00:42] <a1k0n>	did you at least subtract instead of iterating by 1?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:00:53] <Zannick>	no i just fixed the bug
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:00:56] <Zannick>	:P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:00:56] <a1k0n>	holy crap my bot actually won against DualBot
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:00:58] <a1k0n>	sigh
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:01:07] <amstan>	anyone familiar with making a wikipedia article?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:04:30] <jmcarthur>	wtf ubuntu. "error: C compiler cannot create executables"
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:05:13] <jmcarthur>	no wonder i can't get ghc to work. *nothing* works
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:05:41] <a1k0n>	g[asloane@wifi-a-128-247 a1k0n]$ grep attacking mybot.log |wc -l 2076
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:05:52] <a1k0n>	yikes no wonder this hurts the visualizer
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:06:14] <jmcarthur>	even that doesn't seem so large though
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:06:29] <jmcarthur>	seems like the visualizer should handle that easily if it is well designed at all
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:06:48] <a1k0n>	yeah peak seems to be 135 simultaneous fleets
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:06:48] <jmcarthur>	unless there is some sort of crazy preprocessing necessary (like what though?)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:07:25] <a1k0n>	i take that back.  236
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:07:47] <a1k0n>	i just think the code is tremendously inefficient
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:07:59] <millertime>	Mathnerd314: pipe to /dev/null results in "access denied"
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:08:15] <a1k0n>	that's impressive
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:09:21] <Zannick>	/dev/null isn't a program, you can't pipe to it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:09:26] <Zannick>	i think he means redirect
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:11:57] <a1k0n>	wow it loaded yay
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:11:57] Join	zaphus has joined this channel (~AndChat@120.155.65.146).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:12:04] <a1k0n>	asloane  41970   9.2  4.6  3181932 193508 s005  S+    9:01PM  10:46.26 java -jar tools/ShowGame.jar
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:12:17] <HarryD|cb>	oh dear god
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:12:55] <amstan>	does reddit remove comments after a while?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:13:06] <Zannick>	i don't think so
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:13:07] <jmcarthur>	amstan: not by design...
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:13:17] <jmcarthur>	but it's happened
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:13:18] <amstan>	http://www.reddit.com/search?q=google+ai+challenge&count=26&before=t3_aztbv
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:13:23] <a1k0n>	hahah oh man i wish i could submit my bot now
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:13:35] <amstan>	i'm trying to find the reddits of the old news
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:13:42] <jmcarthur>	amstan: you can't go by search on reddit. it sucks
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:13:44] <amstan>	that first reddit that made the challenge popular
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:13:56] <jmcarthur>	amstan: on google:   site:reddit.com google ai challenge
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:14:03] <jmcarthur>	oh i posted that :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:14:37] <jmcarthur>	http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ay7xs/google_ai_challenge_tron_accepting_entries_in/
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:14:53] <Zannick>	nice username
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:15:18] <jmcarthur>	heh
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:15:31] Quit	zaphus has left this server (Client Quit).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:15:46] <jmcarthur>	that username is a bit of a relic
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:15:51] <contestbot>	Top 10 players: phreeza(437), cheese_bot(359), zaphus(335), Max(191), inverselimit(110), seigen(15), jdonland(-22), bswolf(-75), UloPee(-76), j3camero(-76)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:16:32] <Zannick>	i dislike how my elo score keeps going down even when i'm not playing
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:17:23] <jmcarthur>	amstan: hey, how about every few hours or maybe just once a day contestbot features the top bot in the topic
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:17:39] <jmcarthur>	or maybe just whenever the top bot changes
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:17:42] <amstan>	yes, that can be done
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:17:48] <jmcarthur>	actually, the latter would be best :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:17:50] <amstan>	jmcarthur: can you post on the forums?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:17:54] <jmcarthur>	yeah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:18:06] <jmcarthur>	or do you want me to test right now?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:18:08] <Zannick>	great and terrible idea: have the bot post the result of every game
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:18:12] <jmcarthur>	ugh
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:18:13] <Zannick>	D:
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:18:14] <jmcarthur>	terrible idea
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:18:24] <Zannick>	yeah, don't do that
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:18:32] <amstan>	jmcarthur: terrible, there's going to be like 10 games per second
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:18:42] <amstan>	Zannick: we don't care about most of them
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:18:52] <amstan>	Zannick: especially if the players are not irc users
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:18:57] <Zannick>	amstan: yeah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:18:57] <jmcarthur>	amstan: i just mean whenever the *top* bot changes :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:19:14] <jmcarthur>	might be kind of volatile at first, but will probably slow down a lot
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:19:18] <amstan>	jmcarthur: yes, sorry, that was wp when i highlighted you
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:19:20] <JCS^>	the country link on profile page is broken
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:19:23] <jmcarthur>	ah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:19:32] <jmcarthur>	JCS^: yeah that bug has been filed already i think
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:19:34] <amstan>	JCS^: post an issue, see topic
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:19:57] <JCS^>	k, i'll check
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:20:12] <jmcarthur>	i think language pages are also broken
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:23:03] 	 * philhassey has sent in a python version of the iphone galcon bot
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:23:12] <Zannick>	...hm, 10 games a second is 600 games a minute, 3000 games every 5 minutes....
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:23:33] <millertime>	Zannick: just tested on all maps/all example bots. took about 2 minutes :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:24:06] <Zannick>	i'm trying to think how many games a single select query should do to get a reasonable chunk of time
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:24:20] <Zannick>	or
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:24:21] <Zannick>	well
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:24:30] <Zannick>	i could give it a time to go back to
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:28:06] <amstan>	anyone open to improving this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_Challenge
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:28:23] <a1k0n>	the title will probably want changing
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:28:47] <amstan>	it depends, it looks like we might not always be sponsored by google
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:29:38] <a1k0n>	i wish i could see the games i'm playing against dhartmei now.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:29:54] <a1k0n>	oh well, might as well wait for ze contest
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:30:14] <amstan>	lol.. i like how there's people that forked your code
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:30:22] <a1k0n>	on github?  heh
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:30:57] 	 * philhassey waits for his "galcon" entry to show up on the leaderboard
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:31:49] <millertime>	oh i forgot, i was only testing on 19 maps. took over 3 minutes.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:32:18] Join	antimatroidUni has joined this channel (83d90609@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.217.6.9).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:33:14] <Zannick>	amstan: okay, i have another one, but i just want to know if it returns something (say, give me the first result)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:33:39] <amstan>	Zannick: so.. like.. i can give you the whole output, it doesn't have to be this secret
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:33:45] <amstan>	as long as there's no password hashes in it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:34:14] <Zannick>	SELECT player_one, player_two, timestamp FROM games ORDER BY timestamp DESC WHERE timestamp >= 2010-09-07 23:19:00
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:34:25] <a1k0n>	my god the java tournament engine is just painfully slow
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:34:26] <Zannick>	no, i'm afraid it'll spit a bazillion rows out
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:34:31] <Zannick>	that's all :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:35:19] <amstan>	Zannick: You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near 'WHERE timestamp >= 2010-09-07 23:19:00 LIMIT 0, 30' at line 1
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:35:43] <Zannick>	hm
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:35:57] <Zannick>	SELECT player_one, player_two, timestamp FROM games ORDER BY timestamp DESC WHERE timestamp > 2010-09-07 23:19:00
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:36:02] <amstan>	deleted where, 250 000 results
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:36:25] <amstan>	Zannick: same problem
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:36:31] <Zannick>	huh
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:36:44] <Zannick>	i can order by timestamp but i can't compare?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:36:53] <Zannick>	or perhaps it's storing it automagically
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:38:37] <Zannick>	SELECT player_one, player_two, timestamp FROM games ORDER BY timestamp DESC WHERE timestamp > '2010-09-07 23:19:00'
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:39:51] <amstan>	SELECT *  FROM `games` WHERE `timestamp` > '2010-09-07 23:19:00' ORDER BY timestamp DESC
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:40:00] <amstan>	7 rows..
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:40:37] <Zannick>	ha, right, i guess i don't need the order by
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:40:45] 	 * Zannick silly
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:41:08] <Zannick>	i had that when i was using a limit to force the number of games
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:41:20] <Zannick>	also 7 rows? that's 7 games done in the past 20 minutes
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:42:37] <amstan>	Zannick: http://pastebin.com/fZ1R3Ca9
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:42:38] <antimatroidUni>	is the enemies fleet vector from the engine sorted by distance remaining or time since they were sent?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:43:19] <Zannick>	interesting
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:43:19] <antimatroidUni>	ie. is it ordered based on when the fleets will arrive, or does it just throw new fleets onto the back of the vector
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:43:36] <a1k0n>	i would guess the latter but i haven't checked so ignore me
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:43:54] <antimatroidUni>	yeah, that was my guess and preference, just wondering if anyone has checked that
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:44:11] <a1k0n>	hmm my bot goes totally crazy when it wins
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:44:19] <amstan>	jmcarthur: did you want me to edit your profile?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:44:37] <jmcarthur>	amstan: eh, not a big deal
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:44:43] <jmcarthur>	maybe some other time
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:44:45] <amstan>	jmcarthur: i can do it now..
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:44:55] <jmcarthur>	i just don't want to think about what to write there right now ;)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:45:15] <amstan>	jmcarthur: come on! i have phpmyadmin open
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:45:39] <amstan>	lol: @philhassey "I made Galcon.  Yarrr!"
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:46:59] <jmcarthur>	amstan: About Me: "My beard develops supernatural powers, the nature of which are different each time I regrow it, so I shave and grow my beard quite frequently in search of a power I wish to keep forever."
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:47:37] <jmcarthur>	i would have chosen to put something more... normal... but i'm tired and don't want to think about it ;)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:47:43] <amstan>	jmcarthur: http://ai-contest.com/profile.php?user_id=3888
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:47:59] <jmcarthur>	yay!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:48:22] <a1k0n>	what is your current superpower?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:48:38] <jmcarthur>	stabbing my own neck with little stubby hairs
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:48:43] <jmcarthur>	not a great power
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:49:42] <jmcarthur>	this one will be shaven off soon
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:50:03] <antimatroidUni>	amstan: what about allowing people to put a short "about my bot" comment on their page, with it only appearing once the contest ends
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:50:17] <jmcarthur>	forums are great for that :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:50:22] <amstan>	antimatroidUni: write a patch
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:50:26] <amstan>	:)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:50:37] <jmcarthur>	the last contest had a pretty active thread after the end of the contest divulging secrets and stuff
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:50:49] <amstan>	yes, the forums are good for that
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:51:08] <antimatroidUni>	yes I know, but would be cool for people just looking through the leaderboard to get an idea of what the bots did
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:51:23] <antimatroidUni>	i don't have time to be writing patches sorry, I have 6 assignments due in the next 2 days
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:51:37] Quit	JCS^ has left this server (Quit: \x00).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:51:56] <rwa>	any new test accounts this evening?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:52:10] <antimatroidUni>	rwa: wait a day? :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:52:17] <jmcarthur>	you have missed several opportunities :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:52:32] <rwa>	it's opening tomorrow?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:52:42] <antimatroidUni>	gah what's today where you are?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:52:51] <antimatroidUni>	it's almost 3pm thursday here
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:53:03] <jmcarthur>	@tell j3camero next time you open the beta for more users let rwa know
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:53:03] <lambdabot>	Consider it noted.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:53:08] <rwa>	umm, it's tuesday here
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:53:11] <antimatroidUni>	oh wait, it's wednesday
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:53:11] <antimatroidUni>	ahahaha
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:53:17] <jmcarthur>	tuesday
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:53:27] <jmcarthur>	well, it is here
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:53:38] <amstan>	jmcarthur: tell more users how?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:53:39] <jmcarthur>	for about 7 more minutes
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:53:53] <jmcarthur>	amstan: hmm?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:54:04] <amstan>	jmcarthur: we did the best we could about telling users
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:54:09] <amstan>	if they're afk.. there's not much we can do
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:54:16] <amstan>	i even highlighted rwa myself
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:54:31] <jmcarthur>	amstan: that wasn't a complaint. i was just letting j3camero know that it would be nice to ping rwa
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:54:39] <jmcarthur>	that's fine. i'm not complaining
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:54:45] <rwa>	I've got one of those job thingies... no huge deal.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:55:41] <antimatroidUni>	jobs, meh, my boss is away so I haven't worked in over a month
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:56:26] <jmcarthur>	jobs.... who needs em? ...
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:56:31] 	 * jmcarthur is "between jobs"
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:57:09] <rwa>	I remember being able to slack for a month... ah, grad school
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:57:15] <jmcarthur>	anyway, it's bed time
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:57:29] <jmcarthur>	gnite everybody
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:57:34] <rwa>	nite
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:57:36] <antimatroidUni>	rwa: I'm still undergrad, lots of slackage :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:57:44] <antimatroidUni>	night
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:57:47] <rwa>	oh yeah, that's full time slacking
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:57:57] <rwa>	slackin' ain't easy
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:58:12] <antimatroidUni>	it is now
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [00:58:24] <antimatroidUni>	i have done barely any work but ai since i heard abou tit
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:00:46] <rwa>	what games have you worke don
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:00:49] <rwa>	worked on
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:00:54] <rwa>	besides planet wars obv :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:01:15] <rwa>	or non-game ai...
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:04:19] <antimatroidUni>	since i heard about planetwars
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:04:45] <antimatroidUni>	my friend and I wrote a bot for tron, but we exceeded the time limit in the final tournament and didn't get to finish
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:05:02] <antimatroidUni>	otherwise i'm also working on a library for game theory stuff, but it's pretty useless for this game
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:06:15] <antimatroidUni>	anyway, I have a measre theory tute, see ya
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:06:58] <Zaph_>	I wish the viewer would show the ship counts for the two players so I can see how much I lost by in a game that runs out of time.. too many numbers to add up !
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:07:56] <Zannick>	heh
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:08:05] <Zannick>	especially when one of the spammer bots is playing
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:08:49] <Zannick>	uhhhh....
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:08:51] <Zannick>	AHAHAHAHA
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:09:17] <Zannick>	if an opponent hits a planet of mine with exactly as many ships as i have
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:09:25] <Zannick>	i retain the planet but with 0 ships
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:09:54] <Zannick>	this has shown me a very interesting bug
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:10:09] <Zannick>	because my bot decided to send 0 ships from it that very turn
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:10:43] <Zannick>	http://www.ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=4414223
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:10:45] <Zannick>	about halfway
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:11:26] <millertime>	there is no value pw.Production()
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:11:35] <millertime>	as far as i can tell
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:12:07] <millertime>	however, the tutorial says to check pw.Production(1) <= pw.Production(2)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:13:09] <millertime>	when i added that line my bot times out
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:13:26] <tapwater>	millertime: pw.Production() probably isn't implemented
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:14:05] <tapwater>	I had that same problem
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:14:12] <millertime>	does anyone here have an alternative way to see who is ahead?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:14:34] <Zannick>	you could implement it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:14:44] <tapwater>	millertime: you can try some function that operates on production, fleet count, and number of planets
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:14:49] <Zannick>	it's basically sum growth of your planets, sum growth over their planets
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:15:50] <contestbot>	Top 10 players: phreeza(415), cheese_bot(376), zaphus(278), inverselimit(274), Mathnerd314(269), Max(145), seigen(-10), bswolf(-37), j3camero(-50), jdonland(-67)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:18:01] <millertime>	well we basically just have number of planets and number of fleets
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:18:17] <millertime>	is that a total number of fleets for that team?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:18:26] <millertime>	s/team/Player
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:18:36] <Zannick>	you have the full planet and fleet info
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:18:49] <Zannick>	you just have to iterate over the lists containing them
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:21:41] <millertime>	you're saying i should sum the growth of all planets of each side?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:21:56] <millertime>	that seems simple enough
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:21:56] <Zannick>	that's what the Production() function was going to do, i assume
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:22:03] <millertime>	makes sense
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:22:07] <millertime>	thanks :)
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:27:30] Join	antimatroid1 has joined this channel (~Nick@85.308.dsl.mel.iprimus.net.au).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:28:47] <millertime>	hmm i think i did it right..
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:29:46] Quit	antimatroid has left this server (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:35:20] Join	pingu has joined this channel (45b58642@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.181.134.66).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:35:33] Quit	Utkarsh has left this server (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:36:38] <pingu>	hello everyone
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:36:49] <amstan>	pingu: hi
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:37:01] <pingu>	this is my first time on irc , so apologies if my manners are bad :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:37:19] <amstan>	you're doing just fine, don't worry
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:37:23] <a1k0n>	peepipipi peepipipi peeengu peeengu
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:37:36] <amstan>	umm
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:37:55] <Zannick>	don't mind the crazier among us
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:38:05] <a1k0n>	pingu is this bizarre claymation penguin show
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:38:10] <Zannick>	they are mostly harmless
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:38:55] <pingu>	i thought id pop in and wish everyone good luck ....
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:39:02] <pingu>	good luck , and good night everyone
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:39:13] <amstan>	pingu: there's a few interesting things to do here actually
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:39:29] <amstan>	pingu: you can brag, talk about strategies, annoy a1k0n(our last winner)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:39:30] <pingu>	@amstan : please go on ...
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:39:30] <lambdabot>	Unknown command, try @list
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:39:42] <amstan>	pingu: no @ necessary
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:39:45] <pingu>	@list
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:39:45] <lambdabot>	http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:39:55] <amstan>	he's a bot.. ^
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:40:21] <tapwater>	pingu is going to pwn all of us. I can feel it.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:40:48] <pingu>	tapwater : wait for my next question ... :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:40:51] <amstan>	there's also contest bot, which gives the latest rankings:
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:41:00] <amstan>	contestbot: rankings
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:41:01] <contestbot>	Top 10 players: phreeza(375), cheese_bot(326), zaphus(248), inverselimit(235), albert(203), Max(146), Mathnerd314(75), galcon(49), j3camero(-25), jdonland(-65)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:41:21] <amstan>	galcon bot's not really doing well
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:41:27] <pingu>	amstan: how can i submit my bot? i cant signup ...
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:41:38] <amstan>	pingu: we're having short beta signups
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:41:47] <amstan>	pingu: hang around here and you might be lucky
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:42:00] <amstan>	pingu: though... next one is probably tomorrow
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:42:10] <Zannick>	it's doing better than mine :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:42:19] <pingu>	amstan: awesome ... ill hang around and hope to get lucky
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:43:50] <pingu>	i have a question about testing my cpp bot ... what do i pass to the playgame.jar instead of "java mybot" ... i've tried "cpp mybot" , "c++ mybot" ...
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:44:01] <Zannick>	"./MyBot"
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:44:30] <amstan>	why is this so addicting? twitter.com/mistabell	
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:44:32] <amstan>	darn
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:44:38] <amstan>	this: http://images.4channel.org/f/src/8bit%20cat.swf
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:44:49] <Zannick>	galcon bot is doing fine
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:44:51] <Zannick>	he's 3-0
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:45:00] <Zannick>	granted, against only 2 people
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:45:30] <pingu>	Zannick: thanks a lot ...
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:46:37] <tapwater>	galcon bot looks like it'll do pretty well
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:47:25] <amstan>	@google amstan
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:47:27] <lambdabot>	http://www.amstan.com/
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:47:27] <lambdabot>	Title: Amstan Logistics - Home of Transportation Technology
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:47:31] <amstan>	aww..
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:47:36] <amstan>	@google hypertriangle
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:47:38] <lambdabot>	http://hypertriangle.com/
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:47:38] <lambdabot>	Title: HyperTriangle :: Home
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:47:44] <tapwater>	since growth rate is ridiculously high compared to galcon
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:47:46] <Zannick>	@google google
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:47:46] <lambdabot>	http://www.google.com/
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:47:46] <lambdabot>	Title: Google
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:47:54] <tapwater>	I think galcon bot's strat is great
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:48:09] <a1k0n>	@google a1k0n
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:48:10] <lambdabot>	http://www.a1k0n.net/
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:48:10] <lambdabot>	Title: a1k0n.net
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:48:14] <Zannick>	galcon is very aggressive
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:48:27] <a1k0n>	man i love chip music
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:48:33] Quit	pingu has left this server (Quit: Page closed).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:48:50] <Zannick>	hahaha i'm listening to a somewhat chip-tune-y oc remix right now
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:49:03] <a1k0n>	i'm listening to 8bitcat.swf
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:49:21] <a1k0n>	my wife is probably about to make me stop it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:51:07] <a1k0n>	can we pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease have opponent ELO score in the profile.php listing?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:51:18] <icefox>	Random bot ls
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:51:40] <Zannick>	a1k0n: i don't think that's too hard
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:51:51] <a1k0n>	that was like feature request #1 last time
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:51:52] <Zannick>	something called "oppo" is in the ratings file
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:51:56] <icefox>	RandomBot should always use the same seed for diagnostic purposes.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:52:00] <tapwater>	a1k0n: whas is this profile.php?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:52:05] <Zannick>	i can't see it, of course :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:52:11] <a1k0n>	http://ai-contest.com/profile.php?user_id=3890
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:52:23] <tapwater>	oh ok
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:52:56] <amstan>	@tell-topic
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:52:56] <lambdabot>	Unknown command, try @list
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:53:01] <amstan>	@topic-tell
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:53:02] <lambdabot>	Plugin `topic' failed with: Prelude.last: empty list
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:53:05] <amstan>	fail
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:53:15] <amstan>	@topic-tell amstan
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:53:15] <lambdabot>	Do not know that channel
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:53:22] <amstan>	@topic-tell #aichallenge
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:53:22] <lambdabot>	Official Google AI Challenge | All your space are belong to us. | http://ai-contest.com/ | Report issues at http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/list | Contest will start Friday September 10th.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:53:23] <lambdabot>	 | Good Luck!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:53:26] <amstan>	aha!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:53:36] <a1k0n>	i can't get the applet visualizer to load any games anymore
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:55:38] <a1k0n>	ah.  signature verification is bad.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:55:39] <amstan>	a1k0n: it must be the cats
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:56:18] Join	Cyndre has joined this channel (~Cyndre@DOCSIS-181-75.cable-lynx.net).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:56:28] <amstan>	Cyndre: welcome
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:56:43] <amstan>	Cyndre: did you participate in the tron contest too?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:56:44] <Cyndre>	evening
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:56:45] <millertime>	so if i want my bot to care more about the bigger planets with smaller fleets.. how would i adjust the formula --> 1+growth/numships
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:56:46] <Cyndre>	yea
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:56:58] <amstan>	Cyndre: yeah, i knew your name from somewhere
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:57:13] <Cyndre>	from the last one
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:57:16] <icefox>	Creating accounts is currently disabled.  Is that temporary?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:57:30] <millertime>	2+growth/ships?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:58:00] <Zannick>	icefox: opens on friday, or if you're lucky when jeff's around
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:58:00] <millertime>	sorry, forgot parens. it's (1+growth)/ships
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:58:25] <icefox>	Zannick: thanks.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:58:39] <millertime>	9/buffer move 6
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:58:46] <millertime>	...
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:59:37] 	 * millertime damn you, 9!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [01:59:49] <Cyndre>	lots of names I remember
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:05:46] <icefox>	How dumb are the included bots?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:05:53] <Zannick>	so much
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:06:05] <icefox>	Should you be be able to beat them all 100% of the time before submitting?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:06:09] <Zannick>	not terrible, but everyone can beat them
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:06:15] <Zannick>	you don't have to
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:06:21] <Zannick>	it's a good test
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:06:33] <Zannick>	barring making your own more clever bots
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:07:15] <philipj_>	a couple people (myself included) just submitted the starter package as their first bot.  Even if you can't beat all the bots you could probably beat us.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:08:54] <antimatroid1>	afternoon people
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:10:38] <icefox>	I'm currently at ~99.9% winning.  Wasn't sure how dumb the bots were and looking to make some better ones or just grab ones other people have made and made public to add to my local test pool
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:11:44] <antimatroid1>	my bot creation is still in the stages of creating data structures, my actual strategy is still being worked out :\
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:11:52] <Zannick>	wow my bot is hilarious
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:11:54] <millertime>	i can't get past 60% for some reason
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:13:31] Quit	rwa has left this server (Quit: rwa).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:15:26] <Cyndre>	so far all you see is just the turn number and the winning player?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:15:50] <contestbot>	Top 10 players: phreeza(379), cheese_bot(270), inverselimit(250), zaphus(249), albert(195), Max(148), galcon(117), Mathnerd314(76), j3camero(-27), bswolf(-61)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:18:26] <millertime>	Cyndre - are you running ShowGame.jar?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:20:12] <millertime>	people who are winning against the example bots a lot: have you begun to take distance into account?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:20:29] <icefox>	yes
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:21:02] <millertime>	yeah, i was thinking that might be a nice thing to add
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:21:18] <icefox>	At least in the c++ starter there is a helper function already there for you
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:21:32] <millertime>	ah, i've got the python package
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:21:41] <icefox>	not that it is much more then a small function
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:21:47] <Cyndre>	java -jar tools/PlayGame.jar maps/map7.txt 1000 1000 log.txt "python MyBot.py" "python MyBot.py" | java -jar tools/ShowGame.jar
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:21:54] <antimatroid1>	the functions in the starter packages aren't very efficient
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:21:59] <icefox>	that too
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:22:04] <antimatroid1>	nor do they do very much
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:22:09] <tapwater>	right now python is sweeping the top 3 :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:22:23] <antimatroid1>	tapwater: the competition isn't even officially open yet :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:22:24] <millertime>	then i gotta step up my game!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:22:32] <a1k0n>	all right, i'm submitting my shitty bot next opportunity
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:22:35] <icefox>	well signup is currently closed so it is a self selected group :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:22:48] <antimatroid1>	a1k0n: just come in late to rape everyone ;)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:22:50] <Cyndre>	millertime: do I just need to downlaod the java package and move some files over?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:23:04] <antimatroid1>	i'm not putting anything up until I want to see how it goes against other bots
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:23:15] <millertime>	Cyndre: i didnt need to
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:23:29] <Cyndre>	running it command line?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:23:35] <millertime>	yeah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:23:35] <antimatroid1>	Cendre: yep
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:23:42] <antimatroid1>	or you can automate it with a bat file
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:23:48] <antimatroid1>	assuming you're on windows
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:23:51] <a1k0n>	yeah right, i don't think i'm going to do so hot in this round
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:24:00] <Cyndre>	nm, found it - I had room for the cmd prompt but the java window moved to a new page of toolbar
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:24:03] <Cyndre>	sorry :(
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:24:04] <antimatroid1>	yeah, but i suspect everyone is feeling that way
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:24:07] <Zannick>	hokay
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:24:11] <a1k0n>	but i also think the game is going to change severely over the next seven weeks
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:24:12] <millertime>	i automated it with a python program :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:24:14] <antimatroid1>	i think top 50 is going to be a lot more competitive
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:24:15] <Zannick>	i think i have something that might work now
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:24:36] <a1k0n>	we def need a less shitty visualizer, this is just insane
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:24:52] <millertime>	i dont even watch that lol
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:24:53] <antimatroid1>	meh, i could live with the visualiser, just need bugs all fixed
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:25:05] <a1k0n>	it takes like five minutes to load a frigign game
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:25:14] <antimatroid1>	did people ever decide how to run the 3 way battle?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:25:30] <a1k0n>	my bot playing against itself is  pretty funny totally symmetric spamfest
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:25:30] <tapwater>	some other guys were working on a javascript visualizer
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:25:36] <tapwater>	lemme see if I can find the link
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:25:42] <millertime>	a1k0n: im not even running the visualizer and it takes that long. its the engine thats slow
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:25:52] <a1k0n>	well that too
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:26:04] <antimatroid1>	i still don't know  how the tournament is goign to work
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:26:05] <tapwater>	http://brains.s3.amazonaws.com/posts/2010/vis1/index.html
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:26:10] <antimatroid1>	games are goign to take a while each
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:26:15] <antimatroid1>	and i already think 1000 turns is too low
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:26:16] Join	Umsturz has joined this channel (55b449f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.180.73.240).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:26:22] <millertime>	the visualizer loads right away once the game has been calculated out
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:26:30] <antimatroid1>	i wish they'd let the competition run for a week with a live, updating leaderboard
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:26:33] <tapwater>	1000 is a lot, imo
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:26:57] <antimatroid1>	tapwater: it's not, with 23 maps and d (distance) turns for a fleet to get from Pi to Pj
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:27:03] <antimatroid1>	23 planets*
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:27:46] <icefox>	1000 turns?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:27:58] <antimatroid1>	i guess it depends on distances and growth rates
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:27:59] <a1k0n>	there must be some quadratic string allocation behavior or something
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:27:59] <icefox>	should be able to win in under 100
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:28:05] <tapwater>	antimatroid1: I'd respond, but I don't want to give away any hints :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:28:30] <a1k0n>	antimatroid1: er, they are going to let it run for nearly two months
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:28:43] <antimatroid1>	a1k0n: I mean the final tournament, not time to make bot
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:28:48] <Zannick>	i think the turn limit is 200 now
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:28:56] <a1k0n>	it is pretty odd that they released all the contest materials without actually "starting" the contest
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:29:02] <a1k0n>	antimatroid1: oh.  yeah.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:29:20] <antimatroid1>	a1k0n: I don't think they intended for it to be live, but then once people found it, it was hardly fair to shut others out
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:29:29] <millertime>	a1k0n: i like it, cause i needed the warmup time :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:29:39] <amstan>	questions about stuff?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:29:41] <amstan>	i can answer..
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:30:01] <antimatroid1>	amstan: what's the current number of turns per game?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:30:11] <amstan>	the info is out for the contest because it was always like this
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:30:16] <tapwater>	antimatroid1: should be 200
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:30:22] <amstan>	antimatroid1: not game specific.. lol
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:30:54] <amstan>	the tron challenge, i preparing my entry 2 weeks before launch, it's just that nobody knew what it was before reddit
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:30:55] <antimatroid1>	are you guys considering letting the competition run for a lot longer than a weekend?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:31:01] <amstan>	yes
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:31:22] <antimatroid1>	okay, I wont bring it up over and over then. :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:31:32] <antimatroid1>	well at least try not to
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:32:34] <philipj_>	I have a question.  I'm running my python bot against one of the premade java bots like the example: "java blah blah "python mybot" "java premadebot"
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:32:46] <philipj_>	and it says  "WARNING: player 1 timed out."
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:32:52] <antimatroid1>	you took too long to move
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:32:56] <tapwater>	oh I hate that warning.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:32:57] <Zannick>	"python mybot.py" ?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:33:03] <amstan>	philipj_: if you type just "python mybot" does it work?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:33:08] <amstan>	if it doesn't, that's your problemn
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:33:08] <Zannick>	you took too long to move or the bot didn't work
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:33:10] <tapwater>	it could mean your bot doesn't compile
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:33:14] <tapwater>	or a runtime error
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:33:21] <philipj_>	yeah, the command is working
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:33:21] <tapwater>	or it took too long to move
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:33:32] <philipj_>	but it's not taking too long, unless there's a bug in PlanetWars.py
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:33:46] <antimatroid1>	try commeting out the contents of makemove?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:33:47] <philipj_>	because it says that when it gets to pw.Distance(p,source)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:33:51] <antimatroid1>	then see if that will play
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:33:52] <Zannick>	it's probably crashing
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:33:57] <philipj_>	I have a print statement right after that that's not printing
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:34:26] <millertime>	i dont think you can do print statements... i tried a couple times..
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:34:31] <antimatroid1>	nope, output is annoying, I'm using an output file for any debugging
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:34:34] <tapwater>	philipj_: if you're piping it into ShowGame, run the command without the pipe and everything after the pipe
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:34:39] <antimatroid1>	cause then I can analyse the whole game etc.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:34:59] <antimatroid1>	but if you do that MAKE SURE you take it out before uploading it, it's againt the rules to write to files
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:35:24] <icefox>	It would be nice if PlayGame would output any stderr that the bots output
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:35:45] <antimatroid1>	it worked last comp to use std::cerr
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:36:21] <philipj_>	anyone have an idea of what's going on?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:36:43] <antimatroid1>	philipj_: comment out all of make move, recompile, and see if that will run
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:37:06] Join	otherAntimatroid has joined this channel (~Jet@ppp118-208-209-202.lns20.hba1.internode.on.net).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:37:14] <antimatroid1>	hi jet
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:37:29] <otherAntimatroid>	hi
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:37:30] <tapwater>	philipj_: try this command: echo -e "$(cat maps/map1.txt)""\n"go | python MyBot.py
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:37:33] <antimatroid1>	(we're making our bot together)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:37:51] <millertime>	so i'm thinking of getting a list of the planets that aren't mine and sorting it by size, number of fleets, and distance.. eliminating a few after each sort..
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:38:07] <millertime>	is that a horrible idea?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:38:34] <philipj_>	ok, I figured out the problem.  Stupid error, p was a planet instance, not the planet id like it should have been.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:38:52] <antimatroid1>	millertime: play around with different ideas, see what works best
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:39:03] <antimatroid1>	I would suggest playing around with pen and paper before actually coding anything
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:39:09] <millertime>	i'm discussing strategy :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:39:47] <philipj_>	However, is there a way I could have figured that out quicker??  I can't find out a fast way to debug :(  The error message only says it "Timed out" or it "Crashed"  is there a way to see what exception was thrown by python?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:42:02] <millertime>	only thing about a strict sort order... is outliers would get ignored..
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:42:15] <Zannick>	okay, i am submitting my tournament manager patch
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:42:46] Quit	philipj_ has left this server (Quit: Page closed).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:42:47] <a1k0n>	example_bots/BullyBot.jar : 100/100, avg turns: 113
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:42:49] <a1k0n>	this just takes forever
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:43:30] <philipj_>	crap I dropped. I'm new to IRC, where can I find chat logs?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:43:42] <Zannick>	you missed nothing
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:43:58] <a1k0n>	no!  you missed my hugely important announcement
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:44:00] <Zannick>	and there are only logs when someone keeps them
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:44:12] <a1k0n>	which was that i can beat bullybot
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:44:15] <Zannick>	okay, you missed a1k0n complaining about his bot taking 113 turns to beat bullybot
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:44:16] <philipj_>	lol
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:44:33] <philipj_>	did you get me saying I figured out what the problem was?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:44:50] <Zannick>	yes
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:45:12] <Zannick>	the last thing you asked was if there was a way to see python's exception trace
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:45:13] <a1k0n>	i actually changed my distance function to take planet references instead of ids
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:45:29] <a1k0n>	and made it static cuz why isn't it static?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:45:40] <philipj_>	haha
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:45:41] Quit	jmcarthur has left this server (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:45:43] <Zannick>	the very first thing i did
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:45:47] <Zannick>	was memoize all the distances
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:45:55] <Zannick>	the planets don't move
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:46:00] <Zannick>	that would be freaky
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:46:01] <philipj_>	ok, so is there a better way to debug than printing stuff and inspecting the log file?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:46:11] <a1k0n>	yeah but calculating that takes less time than fetching it from a hash table
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:46:12] <philipj_>	Yeah, that's what I'm doing too, caching the distance values
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:46:46] <Zannick>	*shrug*
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:46:49] <philipj_>	really?  There's a sqrt and a couple multiplies?  That's several more instructions than a load
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:46:56] <millertime>	how are you guys calculating distance?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:47:05] <millertime>	you said it's in the C++ package?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:47:11] <a1k0n>	a load from cache if you're lucky.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:47:16] 	 * millertime is sorry he doesnt remember simple algebra lol
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:47:27] <philipj_>	it's in PlanetWars.extension, or should by
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:47:37] <philipj_>	return int(ceil(sqrt(dx * dx + dy * dy)))
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:48:00] <millertime>	thx
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:48:10] <a1k0n>	anyway i'm not even close to the point where speed matters cuz i don't do any searching
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:48:59] <philipj_>	haha same for everybody else I bet
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:50:14] <Zaph_>	galcon is looking pretty good :-)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:52:17] <amstan>	Zaph_: thank philhassey, it's creator
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:52:19] <amstan>	:)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:52:24] <amstan>	its*
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:52:36] <antimatroid1>	I think this competition will be more about making use of the information you have better than anyone else rather than ability to search
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:52:59] <a1k0n>	omg, Game::DoTimeStep is a travesty of memory allocation
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:53:00] <Zaph_>	yeah, I knew that - I was the one that suggested creating the Galcon account for his default game AI :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:53:33] <a1k0n>	does it actually use galcon's AI?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:53:50] <Zaph_>	yep, he ported it across to Python a few hours ago then uploaded it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:53:56] <a1k0n>	that is truly awesome
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:54:11] <Zannick>	"a python version of the iphone galcon bot
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:54:12] <Zannick>	"
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:54:13] <tapwater>	antimatroid1: I agree
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:54:13] <Zannick>	to quote
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:54:38] <Zaph_>	gives us a great benchmark
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:54:52] <antimatroid1>	i still expect to see c++ claiming most of the top 10
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:55:04] <Zannick>	it is still quite early
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:55:10] <Zannick>	my bot is up there entirely as a joke
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:55:21] <Zannick>	well, it is a silly bot, not a serious entry
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:55:23] <icefox>	antimatroid1: what if the c++ bot is ported to python?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:55:30] <a1k0n>	omg hahaha
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:55:40] <a1k0n>	no wonder the engine is so slow
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:55:42] <antimatroid1>	icefox: ignore anything I say about languages, I've never properly learnt anything but c++ and love it to bits
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:55:56] <a1k0n>	  for (Planet p : planets) {
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:55:56] <a1k0n>	    gamePlayback += "" + p.Owner() + "." + p.NumShips() + ",";
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:55:58] <a1k0n>	etc etc etc
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:56:05] <philipj_>	oh geez....
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:56:09] <icefox>	done c++ for 13 years.  C++ is only as good as the library you have
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:56:17] <philipj_>	that is terrible
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:56:24] <a1k0n>	i assume java strings are immutable and that is quadratic?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:56:37] <philipj_>	iirc you're right
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:56:47] <antimatroid1>	icefox: I'm still an undergrad, and have been using C++ only a little over a year, so stl still does me fine most of the time
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:56:48] <a1k0n>	  if (gamePlayback.charAt(gamePlayback.length() - 1) == ',') {
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:56:48] <a1k0n>	    gamePlayback = gamePlayback.substring(0, gamePlayback.length() - 1);
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:56:48] <a1k0n>	  }
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:56:48] <a1k0n>	  gamePlayback += ":";
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:56:55] <Zannick>	the online engine is in python
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:57:01] <a1k0n>	i feel like i just got punched in the stomach reading that
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:57:22] <Zannick>	you're reading java
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:57:27] <tapwater>	that's what open source is for
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:57:28] <antimatroid1>	although we had to write our own tensor struct for a library as c++ doesn't do general n-dimensional vector functions at all
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:57:31] <tapwater>	heal your own punch wounds
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:57:57] <antimatroid1>	and I wish I could overload operator precedence damnit!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:58:06] <icefox>	and the existing libs were not good enough?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:58:23] <icefox>	antimatroid1: so your a fortress guy? :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:58:29] <a1k0n>	also what the hell happened to the indentation of this code
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:58:36] <antimatroid1>	icefox: what existing libraries? :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:58:39] <antimatroid1>	fortress guy?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:58:52] <icefox>	the language fortress
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:59:02] <antimatroid1>	i don't understand?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:59:16] <Zannick>	fortran?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [02:59:21] <antimatroid1>	never touched it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:00:10] <icefox>	fortress != fortran.  Fortress is neat in that it lets you write using unicode and mathmatical symbols actually can mean what they really mean
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:00:37] <otherAntimatroid>	shivers fortress sounds mega
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:00:46] <Zannick>	i can use <= in python to check if a set is contained in another
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:00:47] <Zannick>	:3
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:00:59] <antimatroid1>	i am now officially a fortress guy
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:02:52] <antimatroid1>	woah, hang on a second
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:03:02] <antimatroid1>	"drawing from Java", no thanks
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:04:18] <antimatroid1>	i don't understand why anyone would use java, it's not even easier to learn, there's so much crap you need to learn for different things rather than consistency it's just blergh
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:04:39] <Zannick>	okay
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:04:55] <Zannick>	since i don't have commit access yet i will post this patch to issues
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:05:15] <icefox>	antimatroid1: ever used clojure?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:05:21] <phreeza>	is galcon the real deal?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:05:23] <icefox>	that is a good reason to use java
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:05:28] <phreeza>	the bot i mean
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:05:40] <antimatroid1>	phreeza: what do you mean?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:05:41] <icefox>	hey phreeza, going to put your bot up on github?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:05:43] <Zannick>	amstan: j3camero: i am posting a tournament manager patch
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:05:48] <antimatroid1>	it's not an exact replica of the game
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:05:54] <amstan>	we're sleeping
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:06:02] <Zannick>	so am i :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:06:09] <Zannick>	just fyi for when you wake up
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:06:13] <a1k0n>	okay i just made it 100 times faster using StringBuffer
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:06:16] <icefox>	phreeza: need a better bot to fight while waiting to get an account :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:06:23] <a1k0n>	now my fleet spam doesn't take so long to evaluate
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:06:32] <tapwater>	Zannick: does that patch happen to address match scheduling? :O
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:06:35] <Zannick>	and in about 19 hours i'll be back here to work some more
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:06:38] <a1k0n>	no idea whether the output is actually correct or anything
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:06:38] <Zannick>	tapwater: yes
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:06:41] <phreeza>	icefox: not for now, don't think so
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:06:46] <tapwater>	Zannick: sweet!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:06:57] <Zannick>	er, 17 hours.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:09:33] <Zannick>	anyway, good night
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:10:29] <antimatroid1>	night
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:10:41] <phreeza>	antimatroid1: true, but is it an adaptation of the real game AI then?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:11:04] <antimatroid1>	phreeza: what?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:11:17] <Zaph_>	yes, it's a straight port/adaption of Phils code from the iphone game
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:11:34] <Zaph_>	or the algorithm anyway, I guess
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:11:34] <phreeza>	Zaph_: aha, nice
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:12:22] <Zaph_>	one of my mates at work reckons he can beat the top level AI in GalCon 9/10 times, so I'm prodding him to write a bot and prove it :-)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:12:31] <philhassey>	the iphone code is all in C, but i ported it to python and made a few adjustments for some slight differences in production / distances / timing in this contest
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:13:11] <a1k0n>	very cool.  i assume the AI doesn't do any lookahead of the game state?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:14:17] <antimatroid1>	wait, what, is there a bot to test again that's reasonably intelligent?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:14:21] <antimatroid1>	where can we get it?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:15:10] <phreeza>	ouch, the aggie is taking a beating :D
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:15:50] <contestbot>	Top 10 players: phreeza(368), galcon(364), cheese_bot(282), inverselimit(257), albert(233), zaphus(219), Max(96), seigen(60), Mathnerd314(41), j3camero(13)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:16:14] <antimatroid1>	i think they should run a second competition a month later (with people resubmitting bots) but for games with n>=3 players
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:16:15] <philipj_>	phreeza:  hey that's me and it's just the starter pack :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:16:39] <phreeza>	philipj_: ah ok :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:20:03] <a1k0n>	ha, issue 69
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:20:03] <a1k0n>	http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/detail?id=69
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:20:40] <tapwater>	lol
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:20:48] <philipj_>	nice
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:21:01] <a1k0n>	this is at least 10 times faster on long games
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:22:47] <Umsturz>	Is there a phreeza galcon game?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:27:44] <philhassey>	how many rounds does the server complete during an hour?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:28:01] <tapwater>	philhassey: not very many >_<
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:28:56] <Zaph_>	I'd guess 5-10 rounds per hour.  Long games could go 200*2 sec, 7 minutes (unless the server is still set to 100 turns, havent checked that)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:29:08] <phreeza>	Umsturz: not yet
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:29:11] <a1k0n>	ha, the python code is smart enough to build the turn strings in an array
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:30:39] <philhassey>	python is my language of choice
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:31:08] <Umsturz>	why is that?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:31:37] <phreeza>	because of the way the server schedules matches i think
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:32:24] <antimatroid1>	i have been meaning to learn haskell and python, but it's hard to find the time, i assume python would be pretty straight forward from c++
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:32:25] <phreeza>	but i'm pretty sure when it takes place, my bot will meet his Umsturz :D
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:32:56] <phreeza>	antimatroid1: compared to haskell for sure
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:33:06] <philhassey>	python just makes everything easier (for the most part)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:33:23] <antimatroid1>	i like being able to do pretty much whatever I want with c++
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:33:38] <antimatroid1>	and it being fairly efficient at the same time
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:33:58] <philhassey>	i need to learn C++ better since that's what i've ended up having to use most of the time
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:36:57] <antimatroid1>	I seem to learn something new everytime I do something
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:37:20] <antimatroid1>	but building up a game theory library has forced me to learn a decent starting amount
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:38:08] <Palmik>	Hi
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:38:11] <antimatroid1>	hello
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:39:56] <phreeza>	hi
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:39:57] Quit	aerique has left this server (Client Quit).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:41:45] <Zannick>	oh, i realized why the server plays games really slowly
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [03:42:09] <Zannick>	filed another bug, one-line fix
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:00:09] <phreeza>	ha fleets with size 0 are allowed?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:02:50] <Zannick>	oh yeah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:02:58] <Zannick>	i forgot to do something about that, too
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:03:13] <Zannick>	eh, i really need to sleep
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:03:15] 	 * Zannick ->
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:07:53] <antimatroid1>	fleets of size 0 provides a major exploit
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:08:17] <antimatroid1>	because you can send as many fleets as you want from Pi to Pj (provided you own it and have the ships) on any turn
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:08:26] <antimatroid1>	people can essentially spam the engine
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:10:37] <phreeza>	antimatroid1: I guess that would count as unsportsmanlike
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:11:06] <antimatroid1>	yes, hence it should be considered ideal to prevent it from happening
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:11:10] <antimatroid1>	that's why i said it's an exploit
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:11:39] <tapwater>	it's not a very cool exploit either
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:11:41] <antimatroid1>	one could fix it by making a fleet of size 0 an illegal move (instant loss)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:12:00] <phreeza>	they are automatically executing other peoples code
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:12:02] <a1k0n>	you can also make 100 fleets of size 1 on your first turn, etc
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:12:08] <phreeza>	i think there are much worse exploits
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:12:24] <antimatroid1>	phreeza: like what? so they can be fixed
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:12:30] <antimatroid1>	i don't mind people spamming properly
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:12:44] <antimatroid1>	but it seems silly to allow heaps of fleets from the same planet to the same planet at the same time
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:13:14] <a1k0n>	dhartmei's server is back up; anyone want to play?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:13:28] <a1k0n>	it's just me killing him over and over on there now
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:13:34] <antimatroid1>	nowhere near having anything that's coded up
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:13:41] <a1k0n>	also i should go to bed
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:15:02] <drewrobb>	where is the server?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:15:15] <antimatroid1>	ahhh, another familiar username
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:15:16] <a1k0n>	http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:15:22] <drewrobb>	thanks
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:15:48] <drewrobb>	my bot is still braindead, but maybe tomorrow it will be competitive
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:15:50] <contestbot>	Top 10 players: galcon(345), phreeza(325), cheese_bot(321), albert(281), inverselimit(275), zaphus(189), j3camero(118), Max(80), seigen(46), philipjagielski(-29)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:15:50] <phreeza>	antimatroid1: like os.system("rm -rf /")
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:16:09] <a1k0n>	phreeza: system calls are verboten
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:16:18] <a1k0n>	other than write to stdout/stderr
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:16:28] <a1k0n>	(and read, obviously)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:17:15] <phreeza>	a1k0n: i'm no security expert but is it really possible to effectively sandbox stuff like that when executing arbitrary binaries?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:17:22] <a1k0n>	yep
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:18:18] <antimatroid1>	once I/we get a decent working bot we'll try to chuck it up on the unofficial server this time
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:19:02] <a1k0n>	they actually run it under qemu it seems
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:19:39] <antimatroid1>	i considered an idea the other day, what about an open account (maybe paypal) that people could "donate" money to, they would be split up among the winners
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:19:46] <antimatroid1>	would you guys like that idea?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:19:54] <antimatroid1>	(sorry a1k0n for being late for your interests :P)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:19:57] <a1k0n>	haha
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:20:30] <tapwater>	antimatroid1: I like that idea
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:20:48] <antimatroid1>	i think it'd need to be officially done through the organisers
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:21:06] <antimatroid1>	but seems like the best way to get some prizes going, and kind of lets people gamble on themsevles if they're really think they're that good
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:21:13] <antimatroid1>	they***
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:22:24] <ratatata>	hi
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:22:29] <antimatroid1>	evening
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:22:48] <phreeza>	were there any prizes last semester?
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:23:08] <antimatroid1>	don't think so, it was fun enough playing around with the construction of the bot imo
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:24:28] <a1k0n>	dhartmei: getting a visualizer going?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:24:36] <dhartmei>	yes, working on it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:24:39] <a1k0n>	rad
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:24:43] <dhartmei>	game data reversed
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:24:53] <a1k0n>	i better get to bed
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:24:59] <dhartmei>	how does the Visualizer.jar fetch the game data?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:25:00] <antimatroid1>	night
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:25:12] <dhartmei>	can the url be modified without recompiling the .jar?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:25:21] <dhartmei>	it doesn't seem to be relative...
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:25:23] <a1k0n>	svn co http://ai-contest.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/planet_wars/viz
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:25:28] <dhartmei>	ah, thanks!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:25:45] <dhartmei>	and good night to you
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:25:47] <a1k0n>	Viewer.java apparently
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:25:53] <a1k0n>	nighty night
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:25:53] <antimatroid1>	I think ELO scores should be translated such that the minimum is 0
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:26:25] <antimatroid1>	just to make the lower ranking players feel better :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:34:00] Join	criis has joined this channel (~criis@farnsworth.parabox.dk).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:37:49] <phreeza>	i wouldn't be surprised to see some math whiz come up with a relatively trivial optimal solution to this... it all seems so linear
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:38:59] <Javache>	got animation :) http://zeus.ugent.be/~javache/Planet-Wars-Canvas-Visualizer/
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:39:08] <drewrobb>	try finding an optimal solution for a simple 4 planet map
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:39:33] <antimatroid1>	yeah, it's not as simple as you think
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:39:51] <antimatroid1>	but i will persist trying that avenue
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:40:23] <dhartmei>	Javache: nice! do you parse the same input as the java viewer?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:40:37] <phreeza>	antimatroid1 drewrobb not saying its easy, but it seems like a possibility
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:40:39] <Javache>	dhartmei: we parse the gamestring
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:40:47] <Javache>	i think that's the same, yes
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:40:56] <phreeza>	some weird mix of knapsack and game theory maybe
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:41:53] <antimatroid1>	it might be linear, but there's a FUCKload of variables
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:42:00] <drewrobb>	i dont think the general solution is tractable
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:42:22] <drewrobb>	what exactly is linear?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:42:29] <drewrobb>	it would be linear without growth :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:42:40] <antimatroid1>	the growth is still linear
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:42:40] <phreeza>	the growth for example
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:42:42] <phreeza>	and the fights
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:43:36] <antimatroid1>	well, ignoring changing planet ownerships, but the growth rate is a constant number of ships added to a planet every turn
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:43:43] <antimatroid1>	provided the planet is owned by a player
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:44:06] <phreeza>	yea, linear growth.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:44:15] <phreeza>	not logistic or anything like that
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:45:13] <dhartmei>	Javache: e.g. you could fetch http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/getgame?game_id=1283935099|dhartmei|a1k0n and use that as input?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:45:46] <Javache>	dhartmei: it only knows how to parse the playback_string for now
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:45:51] <Javache>	but the rest could be added too
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:45:52] <drewrobb>	yeah but you can have things like strategy A and B are independently good ideas, but the superpositions of A and B is fail
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:46:27] <phreeza>	transition from one rounds state to the next can probably be described as matrix multiplication
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:46:44] <phreeza>	drewrobb yes, not linear in that sense
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:47:23] <drewrobb>	ah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:47:48] <drewrobb>	it would be very useful to find that expression
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:48:40] <s_denchev>	for the record I also started to search for math solution but ... even for 3 planets the number of possibilities is huge
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:49:34] <antimatroid1>	so who are the game theory fans in here?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:49:38] 	 * antimatroid1 raises hand
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:49:53] <s_denchev>	me too :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:50:05] <phreeza>	I enjoy reading about it but never went into it in depth
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:50:34] <drewrobb>	me
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:51:03] <antimatroid1>	do you guys use any libraries?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:51:22] <antimatroid1>	i've found the gambit code rather... gross, so started my own (with the other me in here)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:51:35] <antimatroid1>	not for these comps, just in general
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:52:23] <idevelop>	hi guys
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:52:31] <antimatroid1>	hello
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:52:57] <drewrobb>	never tried that, i haven't really done much computational game theory
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:53:48] <antimatroid1>	yeah, but I wanted something to play with and nothing good seemed to exist
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:55:16] <drewrobb>	seems like gambit would have been a useful tool for early study
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:55:41] <drewrobb>	i hate solving things by hand
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:55:57] <antimatroid1>	the code is bleh (although I've sort of learnt c++ doing this, so probably makes more sense now), and wasn't really easy to write your own programs using the library
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:56:04] <antimatroid1>	and input file formats were gross
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:56:14] <antimatroid1>	and i can break their extensive form algorithms easy as cake
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:56:23] <antimatroid1>	and it barely does anything
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:56:52] <antimatroid1>	unfortunately mixed strategy nash equilibrium in n player games is one hell of a beast, so I'm doing that as an honours thesis next year before releasing the library
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:57:07] <antimatroid1>	but that can be used for solving a lot of other equilibrium refinements
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:57:25] <drewrobb>	oh neat
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:57:55] <drewrobb>	were you also immediately annoyed when you found this contest way simultaneous play once again?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:58:17] <antimatroid1>	no, simultaneous is funner :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:58:43] <antimatroid1>	i think an ai comp for a differential chasing game would be cool
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:59:30] <antimatroid1>	although people would probably just end up trying numerical pde solutions i think
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [04:59:34] <antimatroid1>	dependent on how complicated it was
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [05:01:25] <drewrobb>	would you have to formulate that as an infinite game?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [05:01:34] <drewrobb>	i wouldn't even know how to begin with that problem
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [05:02:06] <antimatroid1>	think multiplayer optimal control theory
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [05:02:28] <antimatroid1>	so yes, continuous
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [05:02:57] <phreeza>	how would you implement that?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [05:03:04] <antimatroid1>	numerical methods
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [05:04:11] <antimatroid1>	in nd space would be mega
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [05:04:18] <antimatroid1>	but kinda impossibly to visualise
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [05:04:23] <antimatroid1>	even 2d would be kind of cool
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [05:04:44] <phreeza>	yes
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [05:05:04] <antimatroid1>	or just a robot unicorn attack ai contest
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [05:05:07] <antimatroid1>	who can get the highest score
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [05:05:17] <drewrobb>	is there a good way to parameterize nd paths in some limited space?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [05:05:22] <phreeza>	i wonder if there is a way to formulate it so that the numerical solving isn't actually exposed to the bot
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [05:05:24] <antimatroid1>	no idea
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [05:05:32] <phreeza>	make it seem continuous to the bot somehow
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [05:05:37] <drewrobb>	like you could do so locally with taylor series, etc
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [05:05:47] <drewrobb>	then you could work in a nicer space at least
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [05:06:07] <phreeza>	drewrobb: or splines
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [05:06:19] <drewrobb>	yeah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [05:06:20] <antimatroid1>	so messy yet so awesome
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [05:06:39] <antimatroid1>	i actually had to derive the formula for a cubic spline in an exam last semester, lame!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [05:06:47] <drewrobb>	you would probably need to bound the movement based on a local taylor expansion
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [05:07:25] <phreeza>	but the ai yould have to update its tailor expansion periodically still, right?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [05:07:37] <phreeza>	so it is still discretized
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [05:07:48] <antimatroid1>	there are solutions for 2d games
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [05:07:51] <drewrobb>	yeah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [05:07:58] <antimatroid1>	i have a couple of dover books on differential games in my room
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [05:08:09] <antimatroid1>	but i don't understand much of them yet
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [05:08:14] <phreeza>	cool
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:05:47] CTCP	Received Version request from frigg.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:05:48] Join	You have joined the channel #aichallenge (~amstan@206-248-161-147.dsl.teksavvy.com).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:05:48] Topic	The channel topic is "Official Google AI Challenge | All your space are belong to us. | http://ai-contest.com/ | Report issues at http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/list | Contest will start Friday September 10th. | Good Luck!".
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:05:48] Topic	The topic was set by jmcarthur!~jake@76.73.220.85 on 2010-09-07 19:33.
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:11:02] <danielvf>	dhartmei: It looks like the data is not being passed to the visualizer
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:11:30] <danielvf>	NVM
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:11:36] <danielvf>	Must just be that game

*** Logfile started
*** on Wed Sep 8 13:13:30 2010

[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:13:30] Join	You have joined the channel #aichallenge (~amstan@206-248-161-147.dsl.teksavvy.com).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:13:30] Topic	The channel topic is "Official Google AI Challenge | All your space are belong to us. | http://ai-contest.com/ | Report issues at http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/list | Contest will start Friday September 10th. | Good Luck!".
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:13:30] Topic	The topic was set by jmcarthur!~jake@76.73.220.85 on 2010-09-07 19:33.
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:15:59] <contestbot>	Top 10 players: albert(650), zaphus(474), inverselimit(356), phreeza(262), cheese_bot(204), mistabell(199), galcon(170), seigen(125), j3camero(123), Max(-39)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:16:24] <amstan>	oh man.. looks like there's new ppl on top
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:16:24] <lambdabot>	amstan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:16:33] <amstan>	@messages
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:16:33] <lambdabot>	jmcarthur asked 2h 25m 8s ago: what exactly is our relationship with google? are we tapping that resource as much as we can?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:17:18] <amstan>	jmcarthur: yes, it's mostly the use of their name, and the references after
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:17:23] <amstan>	anything more you'll have to ask jeff
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:18:05] <Javache>	hey amstan, have you seen the visualizer already?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:18:16] <amstan>	Javache: no!, any new visualizer?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:18:28] <Javache>	yeah, a canvas one
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:18:52] <Javache>	http://github.com/DanielVF/Planet-Wars-Canvas-Visualizer
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:18:52] <Zannick>	tapping that resource
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:18:54] <Zannick>	:D
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:19:06] <amstan>	Javache: do you have a demo?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:19:22] <danielvf>	http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1283965700|example|a1k0n
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:19:25] <danielvf>	He's using it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:19:36] <amstan>	yes!!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:19:42] <amstan>	omg, double rainbow all the way
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:19:42] <danielvf>	We've just added controls
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:19:58] <danielvf>	Going to upload a demo
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:19:58] Join	s_denchev has joined this channel (4f64afb0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.100.175.176).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:20:13] <amstan>	Javache: can you make the end more flashy?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:20:21] <amstan>	Javache: i think we always had that problem..
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:20:30] <amstan>	s_denchev: hey, welcome, i was about to reply to you to come here
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:20:56] <Zannick>	dang that's awesome
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:20:59] <amstan>	s_denchev: our beta periods are very short, we'll announce them here, registration is generally open 5 min at a time, you have to register yourself
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:21:01] <Javache>	amstan: sure, that's a possibility
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:21:10] <s_denchev>	OK
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:21:10] <Javache>	you can make tickets on the github page ^^
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:21:17] <amstan>	oh! right
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:21:27] <s_denchev>	I am at home so I have many free time :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:21:46] <mtcbot>	which browser/version do you need for the canvas visualiser ? does not work in firefox 3.0.6 (Debian Iceweasel)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:22:05] <amstan>	it worked in chrome just now
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:22:06] <Javache>	mtcbot: a recent firefox, webkit browser should work
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:22:26] <amstan>	personally... if this doesn't work in IE, no big deal
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:22:34] <amstan>	graceful degradation... you can still use the site
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:22:50] <danielvf>	Maybe we should try http://code.google.com/p/explorercanvas/
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:23:01] <amstan>	or that..
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:23:27] <danielvf>	Performance might be horrible though
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:23:37] <danielvf>	So degrading to the java applet might be best
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:24:18] <amstan>	danielvf: you know you can colour your labels in the issues
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:24:27] <danielvf>	Yeah.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:24:41] <danielvf>	Just have been having so much fun coding
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:24:48] <amstan>	danielvf: did you announce it on the forums?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:24:49] <danielvf>	Haven't worked up the issues yet.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:24:56] <danielvf>	No
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:25:05] <danielvf>	New version demo
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:25:06] <danielvf>	http://brains.s3.amazonaws.com/posts/2010/vis1.1/index.html
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:25:21] Part	kozlovsky has left this channel.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:25:44] <danielvf>	Few more tweaks needed on it, then it's good for use.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:25:49] <amstan>	danielvf: philhassey was saying something about the colour scheme, apparently red and green were hard to see
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:25:57] <amstan>	does red and blue solve that?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:26:08] <Javache>	amstan: what would help for the end state, could you make the replay include some  final state?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:26:22] <Zannick>	red and blue is fairly traditional, too
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:26:28] <amstan>	ok, good enough
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:26:33] <Javache>	could be just dhartmei's server, but an end state where all planets are taken would be very helpful
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:26:34] Join	kozlovsky has joined this channel (5d645927@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.100.89.39).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:26:51] <danielvf>	And I just liked the colors. :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:26:57] <dhartmei>	i can add an end state
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:27:02] <dhartmei>	that looks fantastic :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:27:04] <danielvf>	But yeah, red VS blue.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:27:22] <danielvf>	dhartmei: I'm going to add textual player names.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:27:27] Topic	The channel topic is "Official Google AI Challenge | All your space are belong to us. | http://ai-contest.com/ | Report issues at http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/list | Contest will start Friday September 10th. | Good Luck!".
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:27:27] Topic	The topic was set by jmcarthur!~jake@76.73.220.85 on 2010-09-07 19:33.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:27:37] <dhartmei>	ah, then i'll remove mine from the html code again
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:27:40] <danielvf>	Well, nah - later
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:27:46] <danielvf>	You will need the new html
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:27:51] <danielvf>	to have the controls
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:28:03] Quit	vikhyat has left this server (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:28:10] <danielvf>	You'll notice that this points at a slightly different url for the javascript
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:28:19] <danielvf>	didn't want to break your current system
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:28:41] <dhartmei>	ok, let me know when you want me to switch
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:28:53] <danielvf>	You can stitch now
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:29:04] <Palmik>	wow... the one with stepping is superb :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:29:20] <dhartmei>	ok, gimme a sec, i'll fetch it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:29:36] <Palmik>	seems like albers always sends +2 ships :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:29:42] <Palmik>	*albert
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:29:43] <mtcbot>	Javache: installed chrome, visualiser works, thanks
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:29:50] Topic	ChanServ sets the channel topic to "Official Google AI Challenge | http://ai-contest.com/ | Report issues at http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/list | We have a new visualizer! http://tinyurl.com/planetvisualizer | Contest will start Friday September 10th.".
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:29:50] <danielvf>	The next changes will just be in the js stick in the JS
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:29:51] <dhartmei>	the huge fleet lists where crashing the server ;)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:30:01] <philhassey>	amstan: http://www.philhassey.com/blog/2008/08/06/galcon-color-blind-test/ - all a response to a lot of support emails i got complaining about planet visibility, figured switching colors here would help the same group of people
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:30:14] <dhartmei>	or, rather, are
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:30:36] <danielvf>	dhartmei: Are you combining fleets?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:30:44] <dhartmei>	not yet
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:30:47] <danielvf>	Okay
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:30:59] <Zannick>	combining fleets only works when the fleets are combinable
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:31:06] <Zannick>	if they're one turn off, you're out of luck
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:32:05] <danielvf>	Right, but still keeps you from being DOS'd by stupidness
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:32:13] <amstan>	we might have a problem, from what i see in the visualizer: lots of ship spam
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:32:32] <antimatroid1>	amstan: I said that days ago :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:32:53] <antimatroid1>	i think fleets of size 0 at least need to be canned
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:33:04] <amstan>	ew.... what?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:33:08] <amstan>	size 0?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:33:24] <antimatroid1>	you can send a fleet from one of your planets of size 0 yeah?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:33:40] <Zannick>	i figure tonight i can work on a patch to disable 0-size fleets and combine simultaneous identical fleets
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:34:03] <danielvf>	Zannick: Great
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:34:26] <amstan>	Zannick: make it so it combines fleets too if they're sent in the same turn
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:34:39] <Zannick>	unless someone else wants to, it's pretty easy and i'll be at work for the next 8 or so hours
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:34:47] <Zannick>	amstan: that's what i mean
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:34:57] <dhartmei>	i have to do this first, otherwise i'm sending >65KB turns to the clients, and my pipe gets exhausted :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:35:24] <dhartmei>	and maybe limit the turns to 300? after that, there are 20K ships around, and many fleets :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:35:44] <Zannick>	the main server uses 200 turns
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:35:49] <dhartmei>	ah, ok
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:36:07] <danielvf>	dhartmei: Can you turn on GZIP / DEFLATE on your server?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:36:08] <Zannick>	though that has been debated
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:36:16] <danielvf>	200 seems good.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:36:25] <a1k0n>	200 turns is just right.  proof: http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1283967055|ademar|a1k0n
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:36:46] <a1k0n>	though really the game shouldn't have ended there
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:36:56] <amstan>	a1k0n: how do you guys paste the game with the names at the end?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:36:58] <s_denchev>	I am for endless game with control of situations where we can declare draw
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:37:12] <ulope>	Thare are a lot of matches that seem to be on the verge of a turnaround wich are cut off by the 200 turn limit
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:37:19] <a1k0n>	amstan: those are the urls generated by benzedrine.cx
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:38:39] <amstan>	danielvf: ok.. you deserve a medal of honour
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:38:54] <danielvf>	amstan: Cool!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:39:12] <amstan>	DanielVonFange, right?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:39:35] <danielvf>	Yes, on the forum
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:39:43] <amstan>	k, you're blue now
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:39:51] <danielvf>	Coolness. Thanks
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:40:11] <danielvf>	Whoa, so it is.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:41:30] <dhartmei>	gzip, yes, i'll check
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:41:46] <danielvf>	You running apache?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:42:16] <dhartmei>	no, thttpd, but i've done it before, just need to dig out the example
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:42:43] <danielvf>	Okay
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:42:49] Join	ChrKroer has joined this channel (~chrkroer@130.225.165.18).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:43:52] <danielvf>	amstan: A lot of the visualizer code is Javache's, can you MOH him too? It's my github repo, but we're equally coding.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:43:53] <Utkarsh>	is it just me or the java visualizer is *too* slow? was there any update to it in the last 4-5 days?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:44:01] <a1k0n>	yeah thttpd can totally gzip stuff
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:44:01] <amstan>	oh.. ok
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:44:10] <danielvf>	amstan: Thanks
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:46:56] <dhartmei>	merging is active
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:47:23] <amstan>	yes!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:47:26] <amstan>	much better
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:48:28] <amstan>	dhartmei: there still seems to be groups of ships
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:49:00] <dhartmei>	which game? only the most recent one is with that code already
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:49:07] <amstan>	i see
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:49:11] <amstan>	can you give me a link?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:50:46] <dhartmei>	http://10.1.1.2/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1283968107|a1k0n|ademar
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:50:53] <dhartmei>	er, www.benzedrine.cx as host
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:51:02] <a1k0n>	http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1283968107|a1k0n|ademar
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:51:06] <a1k0n>	does that actually make a difference?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:51:14] <amstan>	no, still groups
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:51:16] <a1k0n>	my bot isn't sending multiple copies of the same order is it?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:51:44] <danielvf>	We'll need to move the numbers around, or drop the ship icons, and just show numbers
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:51:57] <amstan>	danielvf: nah, put the icon closer to the number
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:53:23] <dhartmei>	either a1k0n or ademar is sending multiples, i see them merged
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:53:51] <a1k0n>	in the stdout from tcp am i seeing my moves or my opponent's moves?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:54:13] <dhartmei>	you see the resulting planet and fleet list at the end of the move
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:54:25] <a1k0n>	yeah and then you see a list of moves and a go
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:54:34] <dhartmei>	ah, those must be yours
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:54:34] <a1k0n>	i think it must be my own moves and my bot is duplicating them  hmm.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:55:46] <a1k0n>	oh haha shit
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:57:14] <a1k0n>	that explains why it goes nuts to defend an incoming attack
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:57:34] <a1k0n>	it fails to account for incoming defense handling an incoming attack
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:57:44] <a1k0n>	and just does that over and over doh
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:57:49] <danielvf>	dhartmei: You can use the new visualizer code anytime now
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [13:57:58] <dhartmei>	ok, sec
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:01:31] <Zannick>	haha
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:02:26] <a1k0n>	i need to rewrite this piece of crap but it isn't bad for an evening hack
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:02:36] <a1k0n>	this contest is gonna rule
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:03:58] <danielvf>	Yeah - it's gonna be fun.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:04:13] <danielvf>	I think the winning bot is going to be scary good
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:05:23] <Zannick>	and just plain scary
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:05:29] <a1k0n>	the low-tech ones we have now are already too hard for a human to play against
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:05:42] <Zannick>	a human could beat mine
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:05:55] <Zannick>	though not always
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:06:03] <a1k0n>	mine requires a zerg counterswarm
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:06:13] <Zannick>	mine's a pretty dumb exercise
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:06:47] <a1k0n>	i can't wait to write one that can actually look ahead
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:07:02] <a1k0n>	but i should probably get to work
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:07:10] <danielvf>	Lol
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:07:20] <danielvf>	I'm two days not working at this point.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:07:39] <danielvf>	I guess I'll go do that too
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:07:40] <a1k0n>	i was trying to prevent this from happening but it already took over my subconscious
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:07:40] <amstan>	danielvf, Zannick: can you guys give me commit access?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:07:47] <amstan>	i would like to work on it too
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:08:03] <Zannick>	i do not have commit access nor the ability to give it, afaik
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:08:15] <amstan>	Javache: ^^
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:08:20] <amstan>	Zannick: sorry, wp
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:08:25] <Zannick>	ah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:08:25] <amstan>	oh man... i get so confused
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:08:27] <Zannick>	no problem
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:08:42] <amstan>	and it is just me or did len(people in the channel) double?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:09:02] <danielvf>	amstan: sure, but I don't like I'll throw it out. :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:09:32] <amstan>	danielvf: that's fine
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:09:44] <danielvf>	Added
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:09:45] <amstan>	i can use my own branch
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:10:13] <danielvf>	Okay.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:10:23] <danielvf>	What are you going to be adding?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:10:58] <dhartmei>	danielvf: do you use game_id, winner, loser, etc?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:11:07] <dhartmei>	somethings still missing, maybe you spot it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:11:29] <danielvf>	danielvf: names from there, not the id's
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:11:32] <danielvf>	Looking
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:11:40] <amstan>	danielvf: end screen, get the ships closer to the number, minor things like that
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:12:25] <danielvf>	dhartmei: No closing script tag for the data
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:12:58] <danielvf>	amstan: Okay. FYI: I just moved the ships, some, though feel free to play with it.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:13:22] <amstan>	danielvf: oh.. and what about a CIA bot?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:13:27] <dhartmei>	fixed, works now, great!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:14:11] <danielvf>	amstan: As in post to IRC on commits?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:14:25] <amstan>	yes, are you open to that?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:14:43] <danielvf>	Yes, should it be here, or another channel?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:14:50] <amstan>	here's fine
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:14:56] <amstan>	we're in development mode for now
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:15:13] <amstan>	we can move it later if we're having crowding issues
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:15:21] <danielvf>	setting it up
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:15:34] <amstan>	i can do cia.vc, you do the github setttings
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:15:54] <contestbot>	Top 10 players: albert(664), zaphus(498), inverselimit(354), phreeza(264), cheese_bot(261), mistabell(196), galcon(170), j3camero(115), seigen(113), Max(-37)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:16:54] <amstan>	danielvf: project/aichallenge
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:17:03] <danielvf>	Ah.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:17:11] <amstan>	in case there's more projects
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:19:37] Join	CIA-1 has joined this channel (~CIA@208.69.182.149).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:19:41] <amstan>	there we go
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:19:47] <danielvf>	Cool.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:19:58] <danielvf>	I've got github setup, but it's not joining
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:19:59] <amstan>	danielvf: there's a test button on github, when you press it it should say somethign
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:20:08] <danielvf>	Yeah, not doing anything there
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:20:34] <a1k0n>	awesome, someone made a bot that doesn't suck
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:20:41] <s_denchev>	amstan, are you gonna open the test registration soon ?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:20:56] Join	GitHub109 has joined this channel (~GitHub109@sh1-ext.rs.github.com).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:20:57] <GitHub109>	Planet-Wars-Canvas-Visualizer: master Pieter De Baets * df7b302 (3 files in 2 dirs): Parse new format and add player names
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:20:57] <GitHub109>	Planet-Wars-Canvas-Visualizer: master Daniel Von Fange * 9753ea5 (1 files in 1 dirs): When replay is over, pressing play sends you to start and begins play.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:20:57] <GitHub109>	Planet-Wars-Canvas-Visualizer: master Daniel Von Fange * 7df035d (1 files in 1 dirs): Trying moving numbers closer to ships.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:20:57] <GitHub109>	Planet-Wars-Canvas-Visualizer: master commits 69ec4db...7df035d - http://bit.ly/cTI31e
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:20:57] Part	GitHub109 has left this channel.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:21:02] <danielvf>	Got it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:21:03] <s_denchev>	because I have something to do and the irc is a little distraction :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:21:07] <amstan>	danielvf: no.. that's not right
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:21:22] <amstan>	s_denchev: no, it's not open yet, jeff cameron is the only one to open it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:21:23] <danielvf>	?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:21:35] <s_denchev>	OK, I will wait
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:21:38] <amstan>	s_denchev: it'll be done when he probably gets home... so ~4 hours
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:22:02] <amstan>	danielvf: in the service hooks, you have to get CIA, not IRC
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:22:22] <danielvf>	Oh, misunderstood yah.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:22:54] <danielvf>	CIA testhook sent
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:23:14] <amstan>	danielvf: you have to give it the right project name
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:23:36] <danielvf>	There's no setting in github for that
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:23:44] <Palmik>	terminate called after throwing an instance of 'std::out_of_range'
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:23:45] <Palmik>	  what():  vector::_M_range_check
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:23:46] <amstan>	hmm, you're right
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:23:48] <Palmik>	:D
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:24:21] Join	McLeopold has joined this channel (~scott@c-76-121-152-123.hsd1.wa.comcast.net).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:25:21] <amstan>	danielvf: test it again, i think it's good now
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:25:32] <CIA-1>	Planet-Wars-Canvas-Visualizer: Pieter De Baets master * rdf7b302 / (index.php input js/visualizer.js): Parse new format and add player names - http://bit.ly/b0rplI
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:25:35] <CIA-1>	Planet-Wars-Canvas-Visualizer: Daniel Von Fange master * r9753ea5 / js/visualizer.js : When replay is over, pressing play sends you to start and begins play. - http://bit.ly/9rlPXU
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:25:36] <danielvf>	nice and fast
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:25:37] <CIA-1>	Planet-Wars-Canvas-Visualizer: Daniel Von Fange master * r7df035d / js/visualizer.js : Trying moving numbers closer to ships. - http://bit.ly/9ptYyP
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:25:44] <amstan>	yep
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:29:39] <amstan>	omg, yes, html5
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:29:42] <amstan>	my first time with it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:30:08] <danielvf>	Not so weird, really.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:30:18] <McLeopold>	it would be nice if the planet number was displayed on each planet, for debugging
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:30:50] <dhartmei>	a checkbox toggling ship numbers and planet id, maybe?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:31:02] <amstan>	darn, it's php
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:31:04] <McLeopold>	yeah, that would be good.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:31:09] <danielvf>	amstan
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:31:28] <danielvf>	You can replace that tiny piece of php
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:31:41] <danielvf>	with just the data string
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:31:43] <McLeopold>	heck, maybe even some text displaying the orders for a round
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:31:47] <danielvf>	and go on.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:31:57] <amstan>	i think the old visualizer used javascript to open the data
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:32:09] <a1k0n>	McLeopold: nice bot ,btw
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:32:22] <a1k0n>	i'm tired of beating up on ademar
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:32:29] <McLeopold>	thanks! I was surprised i won
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:32:39] <a1k0n>	(who just beat me)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:32:50] <a1k0n>	my bot is very stupid, so i'm not
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:33:13] <McLeopold>	I looks like it just spams the universe
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:33:39] <a1k0n>	kinda.  it has some vague notions of the minimum number of ships it needs to hold onto to defend but isn't capable of any sort of lookahead
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:33:52] <a1k0n>	i just threw it together last night to have something
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:34:02] <amstan>	!rankings
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:34:03] <contestbot>	Top 10 players: albert(680), zaphus(504), inverselimit(358), cheese_bot(279), phreeza(272), mistabell(200), galcon(175), j3camero(116), seigen(98), Max(-45)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:34:15] <amstan>	a1k0n: didn't you get in there?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:34:19] <a1k0n>	nope
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:34:22] <amstan>	why not?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:34:37] <a1k0n>	so i wouldn't get sucked in
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:34:40] <a1k0n>	but that didn't work
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:34:41] <jmcarthur>	the visualizer is looking really sweet
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:34:57] <jmcarthur>	can we eventually replace the java applet with the canvas version?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:35:06] <amstan>	jmcarthur: yep
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:35:10] <jmcarthur>	awesome
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:35:16] <a1k0n>	anyway i don't want to open up any accusations of favoritism
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:35:24] <a1k0n>	usernam doesn't need any more ammunition
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:35:43] <jmcarthur>	heh
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:35:44] <amstan>	a1k0n: there's always the banhammer
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:36:39] <ulope>	amstan: I noticed today that only about 30 matches are being held per hour. Is that a matter of you guys needing more servers / vms or just that you didn't get around to have the tournament run on multiple boxes?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:37:13] <amstan>	i am not sure, you have to ask jeff
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:37:28] <Zannick>	i submitted a bug to fix that
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:37:34] <jmcarthur>	a patch :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:37:37] <a1k0n>	is there a somewhat constant per-player rate of games?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:37:39] <Zannick>	er, a patch
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:37:45] <amstan>	danielvf: no need to replace for me: http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~amstan/aichallenge/canvas-visualizer/
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:37:51] <a1k0n>	Zannick: against the tournament server?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:37:56] <danielvf>	Okay
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:37:59] <danielvf>	Great
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:38:06] <amstan>	is it me or is there artifacts in the visualizer?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:38:19] <danielvf>	amstan: Could be, where?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:38:24] <Zannick>	a1k0n: yes
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:38:37] <jmcarthur>	if the visualizer could just simulate one extra turn with no actions then the end game would look better
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:38:42] <icefox>	When you get "WARNING: player 1 timed out." does that mean it kills your bot?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:39:17] <danielvf>	jmcarthur: Ah, since that last kill is never shown?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:39:25] <jmcarthur>	yeah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:39:48] <a1k0n>	yeah, and then maybe pop up a statistics box like you see at the end of a round in (insert deathmatch fps here)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:39:54] <Zannick>	that's not a visualizer problem, that's the engine not sending the final state to the visualizer
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:40:06] <jmcarthur>	yeah, but the visualizer can still account for it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:40:07] <dhartmei>	i'm adding the last state to the data now
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:40:14] <danielvf>	dhartmei: cool
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:40:21] <a1k0n>	dhartmei: is there a round limit?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:40:23] <jmcarthur>	ah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:40:30] <amstan>	danielvf: http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~amstan/aichallenge/artifacts.png
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:40:35] <dhartmei>	a1k0n: 200 turns now
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:40:36] <danielvf>	a1k0n: The plan is to have stats and graphs below
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:40:37] <amstan>	i upped the contrast so you can see it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:40:50] <jmcarthur>	woah your artifacts are a lot worse than mine
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:40:52] <jmcarthur>	ah that's why
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:40:57] <danielvf>	Freeky.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:41:07] <danielvf>	We are repainting the background
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:41:18] <danielvf>	* dirty sections
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:41:20] <jmcarthur>	at 99% opacity? :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:41:21] <danielvf>	let me see
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:41:24] <amstan>	lol
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:41:44] <ulope>	danielvf: could you maybe add an outline to the ships? Its a bit difficult to track them when they move over planets of the same color
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:42:24] <danielvf>	ulope: It's possible. Might just use a slightly different color for the ships.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:42:35] <ulope>	danielvf: or that yeah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:42:37] <jmcarthur>	dang, i just can't get a working up-to-date ghc binary on hardy. i'm thinking about... giving up :(
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:42:49] <jmcarthur>	i'll ask around in #haskell first though
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:42:57] <a1k0n>	or maybe it's antialiasing the fractional pixel boundary
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:43:12] <a1k0n>	try rounding dirty regions to full pixels?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:43:48] <danielvf>	a1k0n: that could be it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:44:14] <danielvf>	amstan: What browser are you using?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:44:29] <amstan>	Chromium 7.0.516.0 (58618) Ubuntu 10.04
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:44:40] <coventry>	Can python submissions include extension modules?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:44:59] <amstan>	coventry: as long as they're present, yes
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:45:37] <coventry>	No, I mean can I write a C/C++ extension module myself, and include it in a submission?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:46:03] <coventry>	But now that you mention it, does the python install include scipy?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:46:47] <danielvf>	amstan: pushed possible fix, you want to test?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:46:56] <CIA-1>	Planet-Wars-Canvas-Visualizer: Daniel Von Fange master * r08723b1 / js/visualizer.js : Possible fix for background repainting showing. - http://bit.ly/cE8frX
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:47:35] <amstan>	hold on, key trouble
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:48:05] <a1k0n>	might want to round the right/bottom up rather than down
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:48:09] <Javache>	danielvf: all those params are ints already, I don't think that helps
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:48:29] <a1k0n>	aha
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:49:05] <a1k0n>	there's no way those are ints
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:49:10] <a1k0n>	          disp_x += -11 * Math.cos(angle);
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:49:10] <a1k0n>	          disp_y += -11 * Math.sin(angle) - 5;
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:49:14] <a1k0n>	          this.dirtyRegions.push([disp_x - 35 , this.canvas.height - disp_y - 35, 70, 70])
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:49:29] <amstan>	nope..
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:49:30] <amstan>	fixed
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:49:32] <Javache>	hmm, true
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:49:33] <amstan>	no artifacts
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:49:36] <Javache>	ok great then :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:49:38] <a1k0n>	woot.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:49:38] <danielvf>	Coolness
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:49:44] <a1k0n>	so what browser is that amstan ?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:49:46] <danielvf>	Let that be a lesson to us all.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:49:46] <a1k0n>	that's def a bug
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:50:00] <a1k0n>	cuz you're just painting a black rect right?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:50:04] <danielvf>	Yeah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:50:09] <amstan>	a1k0n: was a bug, fixed; chromium 7.xx
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:50:21] <a1k0n>	amstan: er you upgraded your browser and that fixed it?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:50:28] <amstan>	no, git pulled
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:50:50] <a1k0n>	what i'm saying is it's a bug in chromium that painting a black rect on a black background at a fractional pixel boundary leaves junk on the screen
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:51:31] <icefox>	:(  When you have a timeout it shouldn't say WARNING, it should say KILLING BOT.  Killing a bot != warning
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:51:34] <ulope>	a1k0n: maybe it interpolates the value across the pixel boundary?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:51:47] <a1k0n>	yeah, but interpolating from 0 to 0 ought to be 0.:)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:52:04] <ulope>	a1k0n: uhm right :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:52:11] <amstan>	how's this? http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~amstan/aichallenge/canvas-visualizer/
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:52:18] <amstan>	changed the colours a little
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:52:46] <a1k0n>	now we just need galcon-style routing ships around planets
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:52:57] <amstan>	philhassey: how did you do that?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:53:03] <a1k0n>	that isn't that hard
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:53:14] <Zannick>	splines, i figure
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:53:26] <a1k0n>	no
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:53:49] <a1k0n>	if the ship would be within the radius of a planet it just bumps it out along the radius and calculates a new direction vector
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:53:51] <ulope>	amstan: nice, thou the buttons look a bit odd, esp. the big "pause" one
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:53:56] <Zannick>	probably there are better ways, i am not a gui person
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:54:08] <amstan>	is there any colour functions, desaturate maybe?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:54:17] <icefox>	amstan: awsome
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:54:28] <icefox>	awesome even :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:54:45] <amstan>	it's not my creation it's danielvf's, i'm just playing with colours
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:55:09] <amstan>	danielvf: i hope that's ok
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:55:34] <ulope>	A total ship count by player would also be cool
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:55:37] <icefox>	Any easy way to total each side's ship count next to the names?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:55:42] <icefox>	hah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:55:44] <ulope>	:)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:56:09] <danielvf>	amstan: Trying to decide if I like the different colors
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:56:16] <a1k0n>	total ships and total per-turn growth
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:56:53] <amstan>	danielvf: it makes the neutral planets look more different than the blue ones
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:57:17] <Zannick>	a play-by-play featuring the fleets launched
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:57:54] <danielvf>	amstan: Yeah, I see that. For now I like do my colors better. I want it to look a little like a futuristic diagram
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:58:15] <a1k0n>	i like the original colors better also
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:58:56] <amstan>	danielvf: so, which ones you like? mine or original?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [14:59:06] <danielvf>	Original
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:00:07] <amstan>	ok
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:00:31] <amstan>	danielvf: ok, do you mind if i cover them to hex at least?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:00:43] <danielvf>	Go for it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:00:53] <jmcarthur>	think i might play with colors myself
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:01:12] <a1k0n>	i always go to kuler.adobe.com when i require colors
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:01:24] <jmcarthur>	kuler is really nice :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:01:32] <Palmik>	hmm... when I get report of invalid order in this format (1 1 0), which number means what?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:01:43] <Palmik>	I guess the first is the number of ships?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:01:45] <danielvf>	a1k0n: These came from http://www.colourlovers.com/palette/159423/Rocket_to_the_Moon!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:01:46] <a1k0n>	you're sending 0 ships from planet 1 to planet 1
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:01:53] <Zannick>	Palmik: from, to, ships
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:02:06] <a1k0n>	ah nice.  very kuler-like.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:02:14] <Palmik>	ah, si it's the same as the order of arguments in IssueOrder
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:02:18] <Palmik>	thanks...
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:03:10] <a1k0n>	wow colourlovers.com is cool as hell
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:03:31] <danielvf>	Aye.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:03:34] <danielvf>	Coolest I've found
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:03:35] <Scrap>	Why does the line  double score = 1.0 / (1 + p.NumShips()); is changed to double score = (double)(1 + p.GrowthRate()) / p.NumShips(); ? Wouldn't there be a division by zero error if there is no ships on the planet?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:04:36] <a1k0n>	wut?  whose bot are you looking at?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:05:20] <a1k0n>	oh the examples
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:05:25] <Scrap>	yes
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:05:30] <a1k0n>	yeah, it would, but these examples aren't necessarily robust
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:05:55] <a1k0n>	in any case the score will be positive infinity so it'll just pick the one with 0 ships on it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:06:51] <a1k0n>	unless java throws divide by 0 exceptions on doubles, i dunno
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:07:09] <Scrap>	double score = (double)(1 + p.GrowthRate()) / (p.NumShips() +1); might be better
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:09:05] <jmcarthur>	most languages don't care about divide by zero on floating point
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:09:08] <jmcarthur>	> 1/0
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:09:09] <lambdabot>	  Infinity
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:09:16] <Scrap>	ok
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:09:30] <Scrap>	thanks
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:09:45] <amstan>	awww, where's my commit, cia's being annoying
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:10:22] <jmcarthur>	@let score growth ships = (1 + growth) / ships
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:10:25] <lambdabot>	 Defined.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:10:42] <amstan>	jmcarthur: pretty cool bot, i must say
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:10:59] <jmcarthur>	> liftA2 score [0..5] [0,5..25]
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:11:01] <lambdabot>	  [Infinity,0.2,0.1,6.666666666666667e-2,5.0e-2,4.0e-2,Infinity,0.4,0.2,0.133...
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:11:06] <jmcarthur>	too many
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:11:16] <jmcarthur>	amstan: :D
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:11:36] <amstan>	how do you make it say recorded stuff?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:11:45] <jmcarthur>	@where tcpserver
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:11:45] <lambdabot>	http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:11:47] <jmcarthur>	@quote
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:11:47] <lambdabot>	roconnor says:  O(n) is slow when n=infinity
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:12:02] <amstan>	@help
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:12:02] <lambdabot>	help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:12:03] <Zannick>	haha
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:12:05] <amstan>	@list
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:12:06] <lambdabot>	http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:12:18] <amstan>	jmcarthur: how do i make a new @what
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:12:41] <jmcarthur>	@where+ github http://github.com
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:12:41] <lambdabot>	Nice!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:12:47] <jmcarthur>	@where github
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:12:47] <lambdabot>	http://github.com
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:12:53] <amstan>	what about @what+?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:12:55] <amstan>	it's not in there
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:13:03] <jmcarthur>	i don't know what @what is
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:13:11] <amstan>	"where provides: where url what where+"
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:13:13] <a1k0n>	@what @what
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:13:13] <lambdabot>	I know nothing about @what.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:13:21] <jmcarthur>	ah it's probably a synonym for @where
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:13:21] <a1k0n>	it doesn't meta-what
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:13:24] <jmcarthur>	@what github
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:13:24] <lambdabot>	http://github.com
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:13:27] <amstan>	aha
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:13:36] <jmcarthur>	several commands are just synonyms
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:13:41] <jmcarthur>	for example, @ask and @tell are the same
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:13:56] <jmcarthur>	and @type and :t
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:14:13] <Palmik>	Hmm, weird, where did the ships of defender in 1. turn vanished to? :D http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1283972406
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:14:56] <jmcarthur>	weird
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:15:00] <jmcarthur>	also, why did it end?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:15:01] <Zannick>	wow
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:15:13] <a1k0n>	whoa
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:15:25] <a1k0n>	are you sending multiple copies of the command on the first turn?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:15:54] <contestbot>	Top 10 players: albert(706), zaphus(533), inverselimit(356), cheese_bot(295), phreeza(245), mistabell(219), galcon(171), seigen(98), j3camero(90), Max(-53)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:15:55] <jmcarthur>	doesn't looks like. the planet he takes only decrements by 2 when they arrive
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:15:58] <jmcarthur>	*look
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:16:02] <Palmik>	this is what I!m doing http://codepad.org/r0zACaTT
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:16:09] <Palmik>	*I'm
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:16:31] <Zannick>	when you play the game to the end, then hit the step forward once button, its steps one back
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:16:53] <dhartmei>	he's sending to the same planet src==dst, the code bugs out and removes before taking away from src
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:17:48] <jmcarthur>	oh here's a fun one
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:17:50] <Zannick>	that's definitely a bug, it should be either illegal or a noop
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:17:50] <jmcarthur>	> fix error
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:17:51] <lambdabot>	  "*Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *E...
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:30:58] 	 * jmcarthur votes for noop
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:31:08] <jmcarthur>	since, technically, that's what it should be
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:38:21] <amstan>	!rankings
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:38:21] <contestbot>	Top 10 players: albert(724), zaphus(516), inverselimit(340), cheese_bot(296), phreeza(267), mistabell(218), galcon(174), seigen(95), j3camero(92), Max(-52)
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:39:58] <icefox>	Anyone know how to turn off the timeout?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:42:22] <icefox>	hard to profile when the profiler takes more then a sec to start up
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:44:56] <jmcarthur>	ew
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:45:28] <jmcarthur>	just use a language with a built in profiler :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:46:56] <icefox>	How would that work around tools/PlayGame.jar?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:47:39] <jmcarthur>	it would mean you don't have to sit there while a separate profiler starts up
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:47:55] <icefox>	?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:47:55] <jmcarthur>	and the timeout wouldn't really be an issue
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:48:05] <jmcarthur>	perhaps i misunderstand your situation
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:48:07] <icefox>	the timeout is already an issue without my profiler
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:48:16] <jmcarthur>	oh. something's very wrong then
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:48:37] <jmcarthur>	oh i see now. your reasons for profiling are to figure out what's taking so long?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:48:49] <icefox>	yah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:48:56] <icefox>	what do you use profilers for?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:49:12] <jmcarthur>	well, for speeding things up, but i didn't realize your bot was going slow enough to be timing out
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:49:23] <icefox>	only vary rarely
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:49:26] <Scrap>	 there are lines like these in an example - boolean attackMode = false; if (pw.Production(1) >= pw.Production(2)) {. The "production" is not in the PlanetWars.java, Planet.java files and the attackMode variable is not used. Why is it like that? What is "production"?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:49:34] <jmcarthur>	*for analyzing performance characteristics in order to speed it up
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:50:11] 	 * jmcarthur shrugs
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:50:37] <icefox>	so it would be nice if PlayGame's warning was really just that, a warning of if there was an environment variable to turn it from a error into a warning
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:52:46] <jmcarthur>	i don't even see PlayGame in the repository...
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:53:55] <icefox>	tools/PlayGame.jar in the starter package
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:54:17] <jmcarthur>	yeah, a .jar
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:54:20] <jmcarthur>	where's the .java?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:55:06] <jmcarthur>	ah the files are under viz
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [15:55:53] <jmcarthur>	icefox: i think the relevant code is in this file http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/source/browse/trunk/planet_wars/viz/Engine.java
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:00:22] <Zannick>	icefox: the first of the large numbers you supply to the PlayGame.jar is the timeout, you can add a few zeroes
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:01:12] <tigreton>	hi
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:01:17] <icefox>	Zannick: thanks, I guess the first one was number of turns as they were both 1000
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:01:38] <Zannick>	no, the first is timeout, the second it number of turns
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:01:44] <tigreton>	for when php?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:01:46] <icefox>	yup, makes sense now
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:02:50] <jmcarthur>	heh i clearly haven't even used the simulator yet
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:02:59] <jmcarthur>	tigreton: php?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:04:08] <Scrap>	Is there any decent documentation on the available data?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:04:10] <tigreton>	yes
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:04:18] <tigreton>	jmcarthur
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:04:31] <tigreton>	i love php and can't programm the bot with php
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:05:00] <tigreton>	or i dont know how
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:05:10] <tigreton>	in forum i read that now it impossible
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:06:16] <jmcarthur>	tigreton: if you want to use php to program your bot you will have to write up some instructions for the maintainers on how to get it working on the server and also maybe create a starter package
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:06:31] <jmcarthur>	or you could just learn another language
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:06:36] <tigreton>	just
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:06:40] <jmcarthur>	tigreton: ruby and python might be similar enough to php for you
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:06:42] <tigreton>	in les than 1 month
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:06:49] <jmcarthur>	the contest is over 2 months
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:06:51] <tigreton>	and i saw java and is "easy"
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:07:04] <tigreton>	but don't know how to do a starter pack
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:07:12] <tigreton>	dont have documentation about it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:07:20] <jmcarthur>	http://ai-contest.com/quickstart.php
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:07:51] <jmcarthur>	i would recommend ruby or python if you are familiar with php
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:07:58] <jmcarthur>	i think there is a ruby start in the forums somewhere
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:08:01] <jmcarthur>	*starter
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:08:45] <jmcarthur>	this is all assuming of course that you don't assist the maintainers in getting php up and running in a suitable manner for your bot on the server
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:15:54] <contestbot>	Top 10 players: albert(732), zaphus(523), inverselimit(346), cheese_bot(301), phreeza(281), mistabell(218), galcon(179), seigen(100), j3camero(94), Max(-50)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:18:53] <a1k0n>	icefox: PlayGame.jar takes a commandline argument for the timeout, you can just bump it up from 1000ms
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:19:04] <icefox>	yah got it :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:19:07] <a1k0n>	(skimming the backlog, sorry)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:20:34] <icefox>	turns out most of the  time the c++ PlanetWars string parser code eats up all the time.  I'll look to see if I can't improve that later
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:28:27] <a1k0n>	oh nice.  yeah i was thinking of discarding that
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:28:32] <a1k0n>	maybe i'll just use flex
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:28:38] <a1k0n>	or.. scanf
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:28:47] <Scrap>	does anyone have the binaries for windows (www.benzedrine.cx) ?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:29:13] <a1k0n>	icefox: are you compiling with optimization at least?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:29:21] <icefox>	yup
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:29:35] <icefox>	we should add that to the default c++ makefile :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:29:49] <icefox>	and Wall
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:32:51] <ratatata>	are the games on website played on PlayGame.jar or is there a different engine?
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:33:53] <a1k0n>	they're probably using the python engine
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:33:54] <hornairs>	does anyone have any suggestions for introductory reading topics or books that would offer some guidance for this year's challenge?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:34:15] <a1k0n>	ratatata: all the code is here: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/source/checkout
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:35:12] <a1k0n>	i suspect linear algebra might play a role this year but that remains to be seen.  i don't think there's been enough theory development (in public) yet for a recommendation
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:36:11] <a1k0n>	hornairs: all i did with my bot so far is try to figure out how many ships my opponent could send at me, and is currently sending at me, and try to expand as much as possible under that constraint
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:37:27] <hornairs>	a1k0n: i see i see, thanks for the tips. im in a linalg class right now haha. i suspect there might be some interesting angles to take with heatmapping and a lot of optimization to be done with minimum flight time
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:38:12] <Utkarsh>	is it possible to get an account now, to test out our bots? (I read somewhere in the forums)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:38:15] <a1k0n>	the first thing i did was try to solve the system of equations defining the minimum number of ships necessary for defense on each planet for each player, but it results in a singular matrix so there's no simple optimum
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:38:34] <a1k0n>	Utkarsh: whenever j3camero comes back he might open it up again
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:39:37] <a1k0n>	i can't believe my bot has a 90% win rate, i suspect that won't last long
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:40:56] <MDM>	hey, anyone know what the map size is and if its a constant size?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:41:23] <phreeza>	alrighty new bot submitted
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:41:23] <jmcarthur>	i'm not even sure whether a map size makes much sense/difference
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:41:35] <a1k0n>	yeah, why does it matter how big the map is?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:41:40] <a1k0n>	there isn't a constant map size though, no
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:41:47] <a1k0n>	and its maximum is unspecified
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:41:56] <phreeza>	a1k0n: i'm going to try to compile the tcp client now, you still waiting for someone to play?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:42:03] <a1k0n>	phreeza: bring it on
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:42:04] <MDM>	my bot is going to normalize the planet vectors to determine a more accurate average for detecting who's has a strategic advantage
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:42:10] <a1k0n>	i've been beating up ademar for the last 3 hours or whatever
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:42:17] <MDM>	so I need to know map size
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:42:20] <a1k0n>	(who does beat me sometimes though)
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:42:28] <jmcarthur>	MDM: why not just use the max distance in the map?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:42:51] <a1k0n>	the space is effectively non-euclidean; planet distances are ceil(euclidean distance)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:43:11] <a1k0n>	it doesn't necessarily satisfy the triangle inequality that way
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:43:13] <MDM>	because max distance implies the size of the map is dynamic, i need to make sure I don't need to do real-time detection for map size
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:43:31] <a1k0n>	well it's not like new planets are going to appear during a game
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:43:57] <a1k0n>	so anyway what i'm saying is you should probably think of the map as a general graph, not necessarily a plane
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:44:24] <MDM>	hmmm
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:44:46] <a1k0n>	(i wonder if solving max flow/min cut will come into play)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:45:17] <phreeza>	a1k0n: do i need to sign up for a username?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:45:29] <a1k0n>	phreeza: on benzedrine.cx?  no, you can just type whatever
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:45:35] <phreeza>	ah ok
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:45:37] <a1k0n>	no passwords either, so go ahead and ruin my record
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:45:40] <Zannick>	there is not maximum flow between planets, though
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:46:03] <a1k0n>	oh true, it's just constrained by the number of ships that exist
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:47:04] <icefox>	a1k0n: a big enough battle on a planet and it is destroyed :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:47:16] <phreeza>	hum...
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:47:18] <phreeza>	./tcp 213.3.30.106 9999 phreeza "python SackBot.py"
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:47:18] <phreeza>	execv: python SackBot.py: failed
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:47:40] <a1k0n>	phreeza: oh, it's doing something dumb; you need to make a wrapper script or make SackBoy.py executable
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:47:50] <a1k0n>	#!/usr/bin/env python or whatever
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:49:25] <a1k0n>	phreeza: don't you ahve a bot on the official server?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:49:37] <phreeza>	a1k0n: yea i do
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:49:46] <a1k0n>	it doesn't seem to be up now
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:50:04] <a1k0n>	got DQ'd on a timeout or something?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:50:04] <phreeza>	gets blanked out until the first match i think
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:50:10] <a1k0n>	oh you resubmitted
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:50:14] <phreeza>	yea
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:50:17] <phreeza>	5mins ago
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:50:40] <mistabell>	for testing, I've been using "java -jar tools/PlayGame.jar maps/map96.txt 500 500"  what settings does the official server use?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:52:34] <a1k0n>	1000ms timeout, 200 turn limit
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:52:37] <ratatata>	mistabell: 1000 200 I believe
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:52:38] <a1k0n>	maps random
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:52:44] <mistabell>	cool
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:52:47] <mistabell>	thanks
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:53:07] <mistabell>	can your bots beat all the others on all the levels yet?  (I'm alllmost there)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:53:34] <mistabell>	the example bots that is
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:53:34] <icefox>	nearly all of them
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:54:01] <mistabell>	sweet game
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:54:30] <a1k0n>	mistabell: http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=395&sid=ae76e04038e072140b0d602908816b3c&start=10#p2503
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:54:39] <phreeza>	a1k0n: runnnig now
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:54:47] <a1k0n>	word
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:54:53] <phreeza>	you WIN agains example
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:54:54] <phreeza>	yay
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:54:55] <a1k0n>	did i get you or someone else?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:54:55] <phreeza>	hahah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:54:56] <mistabell>	awesome
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [16:55:43] <mistabell>	"it's a bit slow on destroying the opponent" haha with all 100/100 wins under 200 moves
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:04:19] <a1k0n>	well others are reporting much faster wins against eg bullybot
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:04:19] <a1k0n>	my bot doesn't actively seek to destroy the opponent, it just seeks growth
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:04:20] <a1k0n>	mistabell: btw the patch to PlayGame is highly recommended
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:04:20] <a1k0n>	maybe my jre just sucks i dunno
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:04:20] <mistabell>	ah, I'll get that right now
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:04:20] <a1k0n>	if you get the svn code, cd to planet_wars/viz and make PlayGame.jar it also fixes some other bugs
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:04:21] Quit	greghaynes has left this server (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:04:21] <a1k0n>	or.. http://a1k0n.net/temp/PlayGame.jar
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:04:21] <mistabell>	is it in the revised Java Starter Pack?
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:04:21] <mistabell>	haha, sweet
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:04:21] <phreeza>	damnit lost agains ademar
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:04:22] <Palmik>	hmm, have anyone incorporated the tcp code into their bot it tries to connect automatically when you run the bot?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:04:23] <Utkarsh>	a1k0n: how would I go about applying that patch? I checked out from svn repo. Is there any git mirror?
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:04:54] <a1k0n>	okay now that the irc server is back.. http://a1k0n.net/temp/PlayGame.jar is my patched engine
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:05:33] <Utkarsh>	a1k0n: thanks. works much better now.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:06:01] <Utkarsh>	showgame is still very slow though. I dont think it was updated in the last few days
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:06:42] <a1k0n>	yeah i'll look at that tonight if nobody else figures out its problem
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:07:04] <jmcarthur>	i don't normally go to extremes like this, but just for kicks i'm putting fleet and planet owners into the type system so that i can't mix them up. i may end up reverting this stuff though
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:08:31] <tapwater>	jmcarthur: are you still goin haskell mode?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:08:48] <jmcarthur>	oh yeah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:08:56] <jmcarthur>	i'll be doing haskell no matter what. i love haskell
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:09:16] <tapwater>	I do too... but I'm still a total noob at it haha
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:09:25] <tapwater>	are you using the state monad?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:09:46] <jmcarthur>	i probably won't be using the state monad
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:10:27] <a1k0n>	phreeza: haha you just have one loss to albert, and that's it, and your ELO is 638
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:10:43] <phreeza>	a1k0n: yea elo is weird like that :D
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:10:46] <phreeza>	optimistic
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:10:57] <phreeza>	so i can go play chess, only 2 match
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:11:05] <phreeza>	against the world champion
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:11:05] <a1k0n>	they prolly should include the +/- numbers during the contest
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:11:08] <tapwater>	did the scheduler get updated yet?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:11:09] <phreeza>	and i'll be second
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:11:26] <Zannick>	i don't think jeff's looked at anything since last night
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:11:36] <jmcarthur>	a1k0n: i agree
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:11:38] <a1k0n>	he's working or something
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:12:20] <a1k0n>	phreeza: you want to play on benzedrine.cx?  maybe if we both start at once we'll get matched?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:12:52] <phreeza>	yea we can try
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:12:58] <phreeza>	ready?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:13:01] <a1k0n>	ready
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:13:03] <phreeza>	3
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:13:04] <phreeza>	2
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:13:04] <phreeza>	1
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:13:15] <JensTi>	hope I got in
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:13:21] <JensTi>	:P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:13:24] <phreeza>	hahaha
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:13:28] <a1k0n>	hahah
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:13:42] <a1k0n>	shit man i got example
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:13:45] <phreeza>	eh
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:13:49] <phreeza>	i crashed
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:13:52] <phreeza>	i think
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:14:28] <a1k0n>	JensTi: are you albert?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:14:38] <JensTi>	naah, I was joking
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:14:46] <a1k0n>	albert just showed up yay
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:15:42] <phreeza>	boo
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:15:50] <phreeza>	lost against you
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:15:53] <contestbot>	Top 10 players: albert(774), zaphus(480), phreeza(372), inverselimit(316), cheese_bot(246), galcon(220), j3camero(146), Max(-17), UloPee(-90), Mathnerd314(-145)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:16:11] <a1k0n>	hah wow
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:16:18] <a1k0n>	33 turns. :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:16:55] <phreeza>	yea didn't stand a chance
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:17:02] <phreeza>	back to the drawing board :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:17:16] <a1k0n>	awesome let's see whether albert or a1k0n is better
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:18:20] Quit	Palmik has left this server (Remote host closed the connection).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:19:27] <a1k0n>	hey you beat albert
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:19:39] <a1k0n>	...and so did i
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:19:51] <JensTi>	benzedrine doesn't work corectly does it?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:19:58] <a1k0n>	it does now
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:20:07] <phreeza>	yea you too :D
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:20:07] <a1k0n>	the killing-your-own-dudes bug got fixed
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:20:26] <javagamer>	Can you play more than 2 bots at a time?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:20:39] <JensTi>	oh ok, 2010-09-08 21:17:42 still showed that bug
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:20:40] <a1k0n>	maybe we could set up an alternate server for that
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:21:04] <a1k0n>	JensTi: what?  UTC?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:21:15] <JensTi>	uhu
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:21:20] <a1k0n>	three minutes ago?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:21:29] <JensTi>	uhu
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:21:33] <a1k0n>	what game?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:21:36] <JensTi>	http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1283980662|a1k0n|foomatic
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:22:07] <a1k0n>	i don't see anything amiss but i'm biased :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:22:16] <a1k0n>	which planet/turn?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:22:50] Quit	hornairs has left this server (Quit: hornairs).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:23:10] <a1k0n>	oh yeah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:23:30] <a1k0n>	er, no
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:23:38] <JensTi>	sorry, my bad
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:23:38] <a1k0n>	are you talking about the 77->61 transition?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:23:42] <JensTi>	you were also sending out
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:24:20] <Zannick>	i see something amiss
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:24:47] <a1k0n>	when/where?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:24:47] <Zannick>	turn 8, a ship of 28 is about to take a neutral planet of 27.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:25:00] <Zannick>	turn 9, the planet is taken, has 5 ships
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:25:25] <a1k0n>	oh, the growth should happen before, not after, the takeover
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:25:28] <Zannick>	is the benzedrine engine adding growth before or after ship movement?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:26:06] <JensTi>	also friend just told me the official engine doesnt allow 2 planets to be overtaken at the same turn?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:26:28] <Zannick>	i've read the official engine, that shouldn't be true
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:26:45] <a1k0n>	dhartmei's server source is updated on there
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:27:15] <a1k0n>	yes, it's adding growth last instead of first
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:27:36] <a1k0n>	easy fix
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:31:06] <jmcarthur>	is there actually any advantage in sending forces to attack neutrals as they generate, keeping the number of forces at your planet constant? i've been seeing that happen a lot. is that really better than just waiting until you have enough forces to do it in one fleet?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:31:48] <a1k0n>	if you have no actual ability to look ahead in time, then it is, otherwise probably not
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:31:58] <Zannick>	some people might just be doing it to make it more difficult to examine all the fleets
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:32:08] <a1k0n>	my bot does it because it is stupid
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:32:11] <jmcarthur>	heh
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:32:17] <jmcarthur>	i do think it looks pretty :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:32:19] <a1k0n>	but really
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:32:21] <jmcarthur>	at least in the new visualizer
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:32:22] <Zannick>	my bot does it because other bots do it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:32:26] <jmcarthur>	lol
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:32:35] <Zannick>	(have you seen my bot?)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:32:38] <jmcarthur>	yeah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:32:39] <a1k0n>	what's happening is that it decides how many ships it needs to have on each planet, and any extra are reallocated where they're needed
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:33:15] <jmcarthur>	ah, so it's just a "i want this many over there, and i don't have that yet, so send some ships immediately"?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:33:43] <a1k0n>	yeah.  it's actually "i have 50 ships i don't need right here.  where can i put them?" so it really is biased towards sending stuff out
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:33:58] <jmcarthur>	ah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:34:19] <a1k0n>	which makes it extremely vulnerable to attack if it guesses wrong on its defense needs
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:35:24] <JensTi>	I think it's bad to send little packets out, because you weaken the neutral planet, and then the enemy can easily take over
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:35:59] <a1k0n>	yeah probably.  and spending ships on neutral planets before taking it over actually gives the enemy an advantage
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:36:19] <jmcarthur>	yeah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:36:21] <a1k0n>	i might try a variant that doesn't do that
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:36:38] <jmcarthur>	i'm kind of relieved that it's bad to do that, because i find the spam bots a little annoying to study
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:37:49] <tapwater>	I hate python
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:38:06] <tapwater>	I just spent an hour for a stupid typo
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:39:47] <jmcarthur>	haha
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:39:56] <jmcarthur>	wait that's not funny
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:40:05] <tapwater>	lol
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:40:08] <tapwater>	in retrospect it is
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:40:22] <jmcarthur>	well, sort of. i laughed because you've been talking about haskell this whole time and then you have a python typo that the interpreter didn't catch for you :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:40:29] <Zannick>	i did that all the time in a several-hundred line codebase
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:40:54] <Zannick>	i use pychecker now :P
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:41:46] <a1k0n>	yep, it's stronger not to spam.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:42:06] <a1k0n>	will update my bot
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:42:29] <jmcarthur>	yeah just what i need to do... help a1k0n
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:42:43] <Zannick>	there's a balance somewhere.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:42:44] <jmcarthur>	:)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:43:13] <Zannick>	spamming yourself or your opponent might be valid strategies
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:43:31] <a1k0n>	it still wants to spam itself for defense
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:43:36] <a1k0n>	and that's fine
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:43:50] <jmcarthur>	yeah that's alright, surely
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:43:55] <Cyndre>	is albert in here?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:43:56] <jmcarthur>	probably good, in fact
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:44:03] <jmcarthur>	it's Cyndre!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:44:16] <Zannick>	the upside to that is that the opponent isn't entirely sure where you're strong
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:44:17] <phreeza>	Cyndre: no, i keep trying to get him to come
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:44:19] <Cyndre>	couldnt miss another contest
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:44:30] <Zannick>	the downside is you can't react as fast for some situations
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:44:31] <phreeza>	Cyndre: but i can relay a message ;)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:44:37] <Zaphus>	anyone know what time it is in serverland ?   probably need a 'current time' thing on your matches page so you can tell how long it's been since your last match
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:44:51] <Cyndre>	just watching his games
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:45:09] <Zannick>	Zaphus: i think it's 16:45?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:45:28] <Zannick>	based on the offset i remember from last night on my games
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:50:56] Quit	MDM has left this server (Quit: MDM).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:53:28] <a1k0n>	better? http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1283982669|ademar|a1k0n
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:54:42] <Zaphus>	nice work a1k0n !
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:55:18] <Cyndre>	much nicer :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:55:20] <a1k0n>	ahhh
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:55:28] <a1k0n>	well here's the problem with that
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:55:29] <jmcarthur>	the visualizer could make the numbers more prominent on top of planets of their own color
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:55:33] <a1k0n>	it can't coordinate attacks from multiple planets
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:55:44] <a1k0n>	because it isn't smart enough
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:55:49] <jmcarthur>	if you step slowly you can see the number on the planet go down but you can't see how many fleets it sent out
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:55:59] <Zaphus>	now you need to find an artist to make it look pretty :-)   stars in the background, planets that look more like spheres than disks
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:56:01] <Zannick>	you still have two days before the tourney even opens
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:56:09] <jmcarthur>	at least not until another turn
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:56:14] <JensTi>	a drop shadow?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:56:16] <a1k0n>	yeah i'm going to throw all this code away anyway
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:56:28] <JensTi>	or just white numbers
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:56:31] <JensTi>	everywhere
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:57:20] <amstan>	did j3camero drop by?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:57:30] <Zaphus>	can you do tooltips, so when you put the cursor over the planet it draws a box with the owner, number of ships, growth rate, planet ID, etc ?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:58:17] <jmcarthur>	amstan: nah not yet
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:59:02] <amstan>	Javache, danielvf: Can i use this new visualizer somehow on my local machine?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:59:04] Quit	s_denchev has left this server (Quit: Page closed).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [17:59:40] <Mathnerd314>	could the canvas visualizer have a "play in reverse" button? (like the broken button in the Java visualizer)
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:01:19] <jmcarthur>	does anybody get use out of that?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:01:27] Quit	coventry has left this server (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:01:39] <Mathnerd314>	well, I've never seen it working, so there's always a first time. :-)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:02:19] <ulope>	dhartmei: How often do the stats on your server get updated?
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:04:13] <jmcarthur>	okay, i predicted correctly that this ubertyping would get annoying :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:04:28] <jmcarthur>	haskell just isn't quite powerful enough to make it nice
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:05:22] <jmcarthur>	simulating dependent types in haskell is like using C++ templates
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:08:55] <a1k0n>	amstan: no j3camero today
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:10:18] <javagamer>	Anyone know why I might not be able to see stuff printed to stderr?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:10:39] <amstan>	javagamer: stdout you definatelly can't, stderr, idk
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:10:47] <jmcarthur>	i'd write to a file
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:10:48] <amstan>	check the code for the engine?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:10:52] <amstan>	yeah.. file would be best
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:11:01] <amstan>	or a named pipe
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:11:14] <Zannick>	the engine is probably dumping it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:11:16] <jmcarthur>	files are easier to save for later analysis :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:11:41] Quit	alainesse has left this server (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:13:22] <JensTi>	javagamer: PrintStream err = new PrintStream("bot.err.txt"); System.setErr(err);
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:13:54] <a1k0n>	javagamer: i've been wondering that myself; i resorted to a logfile
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:14:05] <a1k0n>	but if you submit something that writes a logfile you get DQd
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:14:59] <jmcarthur>	use an environment variable to control how it builds
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:15:34] <jmcarthur>	or just a special makefile rule
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:15:44] <jmcarthur>	actually
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:15:46] <jmcarthur>	don't do that
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:15:48] <a1k0n>	ah yeah since it discards your makefile
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:15:53] <contestbot>	Top 10 players: albert(699), zaphus(416), inverselimit(304), cheese_bot(227), galcon(179), seigen(136), j3camero(128), phreeza(79), mistabell(56), Max(-5)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:15:58] <jmcarthur>	use an environment variable to determine at runtime whether to log
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:16:19] <jmcarthur>	hmm... unless you can't do that
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:16:26] <jmcarthur>	dunno if the server would appreciate it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:16:36] <Zannick>	you could use a static variable
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:16:48] <jmcarthur>	i'm leaning toward makefile
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:16:49] Quit	kozlovsky has left this server (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:16:50] <Zannick>	if i decide i need logging, i would use a macro, for example
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:16:56] <jmcarthur>	well yeah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:16:59] <Mathnerd314>	where do I submit visualizer patches?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:17:09] <jmcarthur>	@where visualizer
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:17:10] <lambdabot>	http://github.com/DanielVF/Planet-Wars-Canvas-Visualizer
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:17:18] <jmcarthur>	you mean the canvas one, right?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:17:28] <jmcarthur>	if you mean the java one...
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:17:30] <jmcarthur>	@where issues
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:17:31] <lambdabot>	http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/list
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:17:34] <Mathnerd314>	yeah, canvas
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:17:48] <jmcarthur>	yeah that'd be the first one then
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:18:10] <Mathnerd314>	I guess I'll fork, commit, and send a pull request?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:18:13] <jmcarthur>	yes
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:18:23] <lambdabot>	@help where+
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:18:30] <Utkarsh>	anyone compiled this on windows? http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/tcp.c
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:18:31] <jmcarthur>	and maybe ping danielvf
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:18:39] <lambdabot>	@where+ rankings
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:18:44] <amstan>	@where rankings
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:18:46] <a1k0n>	amstan: you need to make a new video with a huuuuuuuuge map and the new visualizer
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:18:56] <lambdabot>	@where+ rankings !rankings
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:19:01] <amstan>	a1k0n: lol
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:19:04] <amstan>	@where rankings
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:19:04] <lambdabot>	!rankings
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:19:05] <contestbot>	Top 10 players: albert(699), zaphus(416), inverselimit(304), cheese_bot(227), galcon(179), seigen(136), j3camero(128), phreeza(79), mistabell(56), Max(-5)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:19:07] <amstan>	heheh
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:19:12] <a1k0n>	man albert
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:19:17] <jmcarthur>	wow
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:19:19] <a1k0n>	now i want an account
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:19:21] <jmcarthur>	@where+ http://ai-contest.com/rankings.php
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:19:21] <lambdabot>	Done.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:19:30] <jmcarthur>	no need in having them do the same thing
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:19:38] <amstan>	jmcarthur: yes... this is funnier
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:19:41] <javagamer>	I switched to a log file
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:19:48] <javagamer>	Also, I never got a confirmation emaikl
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:19:51] <javagamer>	*emaik
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:19:53] <javagamer>	**email
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:20:01] <amstan>	javagamer: for the site?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:20:10] <amstan>	javagamer: or is it for the forums?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:20:24] <jmcarthur>	a1k0n: heh, i could submit a bot on your behalf under my name :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:20:38] <jmcarthur>	i don't have one to submit yet
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:20:46] <jmcarthur>	but i have an account
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:20:53] <phreeza>	is benzadrine limited to 100 turns now?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:20:54] <javagamer>	For the site
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:20:59] <phreeza>	or has it always been?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:21:07] <JensTi>	300 I guess
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:21:11] <jmcarthur>	i thought it was like 500
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:21:15] <jmcarthur>	keeps changing though i guess
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:22:25] <jmcarthur>	yes, make a ginormous map and a video from it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:24:22] <a1k0n>	ooh he got me http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1283984353|a1k0n|albert
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:25:47] <Mathnerd314>	danielvf: sent you a pull request
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:36:10] <Mathnerd314>	though I sense off-by-one errors
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:36:48] <amstan>	(06:35:58 PM) Alex: also: http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1283984353|a1k0n|albert
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:36:48] <amstan>	(06:36:28 PM) Jeff Cameron: Ohhh my goodness are you shitting me.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:37:21] <amstan>	apparently he likes it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:37:53] <amstan>	he'll be here in 30 min
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:40:42] <amstan>	danielvf, Javache ^^
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:46:12] <antimatroid1>	I'm not sure you could not like it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:46:44] <amstan>	lol
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:46:58] <antimatroid1>	although, are the arrows on fleets just clogging up the space once we get a lot of fleets going?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:47:09] <amstan>	we have to merge ships
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:47:15] <amstan>	then it won't have this problem
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:47:36] <a1k0n>	if it sends a stream of 1 ship every turn you can't merge them
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:47:40] <antimatroid1>	you can only merge ships that are expected to arrive at the same time
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:47:51] <a1k0n>	though i guess you could draw a single number above the stream of arrows showing the sum in the centroid
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:47:52] <antimatroid1>	merge fleets*
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:47:55] <amstan>	oh, yeah, that's one problem
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:48:13] <amstan>	but that case, they should be spaced apart
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:48:30] <a1k0n>	or instead of numbers we should just draw arrows for each ship
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:48:43] <a1k0n>	that would be insane
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:48:57] <amstan>	1 arrow for every 3 ships?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:49:00] <seigen>	hey all
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:49:09] <antimatroid1>	no, it's nice seeing the number of ships definitively
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:49:17] <antimatroid1>	hi sigen
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:58:25] <seigen>	hey hey
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:58:48] <seigen>	fixed a nice bug when planets reached zero ships
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:58:51] <seigen>	and back on the board!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:59:33] <antimatroid1>	which bug?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [18:59:50] <antimatroid1>	i'm not sure a decision has been made about how to run simultaneous attacks on neutral planets
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:02:21] <seigen>	i had an error in my bot when a planet reached zero ships
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:02:34] <a1k0n>	woot i have now played 200 games
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:03:03] <seigen>	a1k0n: on tcpserver?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:03:07] <a1k0n>	yep
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:03:17] <a1k0n>	ademar's up to 279 already
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:04:06] <seigen>	do you have a script to keep rerunning it?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:04:45] <a1k0n>	while true; do ./tcp etc etc etc; sleep 30; done
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:05:09] <a1k0n>	the sleep makes it so i can kill it without losing and mixes up who i'm playing against
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:05:29] <ulope>	i keep hitting example those matches are not very interesting ;)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:05:38] <seigen>	haha
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:05:39] <a1k0n>	yeah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:05:43] <JCS^>	is there an way to run the tcp client on win?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:06:12] <a1k0n>	unknown.  windows doesn't really deal with pipes the same way
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:06:15] <a1k0n>	it'd work in cygwin i'm sure
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:06:26] <a1k0n>	...if you compile your bot with cygwin
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:06:50] <ulope>	JCS^: Well the protocol is not very difficult, you could build your own wrapper
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:07:43] <JCS^>	yeah, I'll try cygwin first, thanks
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:08:09] Quit	mistabell has left this server (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:11:06] <mightybyte>	Anyone using alphabeta in their engine?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:11:19] <a1k0n>	thinking about it, not even close to starting
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:11:33] <jmcarthur>	i have a visualizer idea for the game. i just need to convince myself to make it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:11:38] <a1k0n>	i don't think there's anything close to that smart out there yet
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:11:53] <Mathnerd314>	jmcarthur: describe it and maybe I'll do it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:12:00] <mightybyte>	It's a bit tougher to apply to this problem.
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:12:19] <a1k0n>	yeah it's going to be very approximate
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:12:45] <Mathnerd314>	hmm, I just realized I have enough info to do that :p
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:13:00] <Mathnerd314>	(Alphabeta pruning)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:13:13] <a1k0n>	do you have a bot running yet?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:13:39] <Mathnerd314>	yeah, doesn't have any interesting code yet
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:13:46] <jmcarthur>	Mathnerd314: time goes from left to right. planets are horizontal lines, where the thickness denotes the number of ships at the planet at any particular time, color denotes which player owns it at any particular time. moving fleets are represented as diagonal lines from planet to planet such that departure and arrival times are correct. thickness and color denotes the same information as for
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:13:48] <jmcarthur>	planets.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:14:12] <a1k0n>	ah, an interaction diagram
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:14:15] <mightybyte>	Have we been given any kind of an upper bound on the number of planets?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:14:15] <jmcarthur>	this is not an animated visual, if it wasn't obvious
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:14:22] <jmcarthur>	basically, yeah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:14:24] <a1k0n>	might also be cool to have a graph of number of ships owned by each player alongside that
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:14:31] <a1k0n>	a stacked graph perhaps
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:14:51] <jmcarthur>	all kinds of stuff we could do once we are working with a timeline
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:14:52] <a1k0n>	scaled by the square root maybe
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:15:35] <Mathnerd314>	jmcarthur: how to see distance between planets, though?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:15:54] <contestbot>	Top 10 players: albert(628), zaphus(369), inverselimit(282), UloPee(249), galcon(199), cheese_bot(157), j3camero(108), seigen(105), mistabell(60), phreeza(48)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:16:08] <jmcarthur>	Mathnerd314: that would be lossy. basically would just have to do your best to arrange for the lines to approximate it by their ordering
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:16:18] <a1k0n>	find the eigenvectors of the covariance matrix across x,y to find the best axial basis, and then project to the longest axis
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:16:21] <jmcarthur>	Mathnerd314: but the distance would also be apparent from the length of the fleet lines
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:16:35] <jmcarthur>	pca?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:16:39] <a1k0n>	yeah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:16:42] <jmcarthur>	that would work
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:16:56] <Mathnerd314>	no idea what you're saying :p
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:17:11] <a1k0n>	since the maps are all symmetric it would probably jsut find the axis of symmetry and planets would all overlap though
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:17:11] <jmcarthur>	Mathnerd314: principal components analysis. google rocks :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:17:35] <a1k0n>	actually like
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:17:42] <a1k0n>	just use the axis drawn between the starting planets
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:17:43] <jmcarthur>	well, it would find *an* axis of symmetry
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:17:47] <a1k0n>	so players are on opposite ends or something
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:17:53] <jmcarthur>	there are two aren't there?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:18:00] <a1k0n>	one per player
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:18:03] <jmcarthur>	wait, it's rotational symmetry isn't it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:18:09] <a1k0n>	true
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:18:13] <jmcarthur>	ah that could be nice though
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:18:30] <a1k0n>	you'd have to stretch planets that are really close together though
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:18:51] <jmcarthur>	i think the ideal would be to have the planets all the same distance apart in the timeline
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:18:52] <a1k0n>	also there may be a lot of them so the graph would look pretty cluttered
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:18:56] <jmcarthur>	even if it's "wrong"
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:19:05] <a1k0n>	but ordered by that axis, sure
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:19:08] <jmcarthur>	just have ordering roughly represent distance
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:19:10] <jmcarthur>	yeah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:19:19] <jmcarthur>	distance from some origin on an axis
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:19:54] <jmcarthur>	like i said, distance will be inferrable from the fleet lines anyway
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:20:00] <jmcarthur>	just maybe not as obvious as we might like
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:20:37] <Mathnerd314>	why not do a 3d visualization? have planets be cylinders on the z-axis, ships be 3d lines...
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:20:49] <jmcarthur>	Mathnerd314: basic that requires fancy navigation to use effectively
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:21:02] <jmcarthur>	*to view effectively
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:21:27] <Mathnerd314>	surely somebody's written an open-source 3d viewer
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:21:41] <jmcarthur>	maybe would could just have a picture of the map on the left and have all the planet lines project from those planets at angles such that they parallelize and then become time lines
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:22:06] <jmcarthur>	vague wording for a common visual idea... :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:22:40] <ulope>	Does this replay load for you: http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=4414756 ?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:23:03] <ulope>	ah nvm. it was just dog slow
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:24:39] Quit	philipj_ has left this server (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:25:31] <Mathnerd314>	yeah, can't wait for the canvas viewer to become official :p
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:27:14] <Zannick>	yeah, then i could watch official games at work :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:27:32] <seigen>	who's on the tcpserver?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:27:54] <ulope>	seigen: a1k0n said he was and i'm on and off
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:28:28] <a1k0n>	yep, i've been running it in a loop all day
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:28:39] <a1k0n>	i keep getting example now
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:29:17] <seigen>	me too
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:29:29] <phreeza>	i'm trying to debug mine, i'm on every now and then
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:29:58] <phreeza>	just lost to example that way :(
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:30:14] <ulope>	it would be nice if there was an option to exclude example
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:33:41] <ulope>	hm 5 games against example in a row
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:33:57] <a1k0n>	i had 16
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:34:25] <ulope>	:)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:34:29] <Mathnerd314>	this game is so cheap: http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=4414739 :-)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:34:54] <a1k0n>	we should make the match delay longer if the misfit between your elo and your opponents' is that bad
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:35:30] <a1k0n>	baha
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:35:47] <a1k0n>	the "golgafrincham ark b" strategy
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:36:24] 	 * Mathnerd314 googles
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:37:03] <a1k0n>	not a very apt metaphor really
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:37:04] <seigen>	a1k0n: congrats, you seem to be kickin' my ass
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:37:23] <Zaphus>	Mathnerd314:  What do you mean by 'cheap' ?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:37:25] <a1k0n>	heh thanks.  are you kitani?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:37:32] <j3camero>	Okay I am here.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:37:32] <lambdabot>	j3camero: You have 3 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:37:37] <a1k0n>	heh
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:37:49] <a1k0n>	i want an account now that i found out my bot actually works well
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:37:57] <Mathnerd314>	Zaphus: he's taking a cheap shot
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:38:18] <a1k0n>	albert is?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:38:37] <Mathnerd314>	no, Zaphus's bot
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:38:54] <seigen>	a1k0n: yes, although i'm using tcpserver to debug
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:40:09] <Zaphus>	really not sure what you mean by 'a cheap shot' - I quite like the outcome of that game :-)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:40:16] <j3camero>	Okay, I have heard that a bunch of people are developing really cool 3rd party software for the contest. I want to get these people committer access to the repo so they can be first party apps!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:40:50] 	 * Mathnerd314 gets idea for bot action
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:40:57] <amstan>	j3camero: danielvf and Javache made the visualizer
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:41:12] <Zannick>	j3camero: there is a revised game scheduler on the issues list
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:41:54] <Zannick>	i'm still at work for a couple more hours, though
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:42:26] <a1k0n>	j3camero: and some serious optimizations to the java game engine on the issues list
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:42:29] <tapwater>	how do I play on the unofficial server? the compiled tcp program keeps saying "execv failed"
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:42:31] Quit	phreeza has left this server (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:42:49] <a1k0n>	tapwater: the command to execute must be a file, not a commandline, so write a wrapper script if you have to
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:43:00] <a1k0n>	we should really fix that
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:43:20] <tapwater>	a1k0n: yeah, I tried that too
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:43:37] <tapwater>	I have a wrapper script that just has "python MyBot.py"
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:43:37] <a1k0n>	did you chmod the script?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:43:40] <tapwater>	yup
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:43:44] <a1k0n>	#!/bin/sh at the top?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:43:52] <j3camero>	lololol there is an unofficial game server?? Woah!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:43:55] <a1k0n>	you could also 755 MyBot.py and add #!/usr/bin/env python at the top
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:44:04] <tapwater>	ok I'll try that
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:44:13] <a1k0n>	j3camero: just like last time for tron, http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:44:28] <a1k0n>	also my bot kicks albert's ass on there
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:44:51] <a1k0n>	oh, and are you using ./MyBot.py instead of MyBot.py?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:44:59] <a1k0n>	(or whatever)
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:48:14] <j3camero>	a1k0n right now it's invoking with "python MyBot.py". Is there a difference?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:48:46] <mightybyte>	Anyone had a problem with the game visualizer/player not showing you captured a planet?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:49:02] <a1k0n>	j3camero: the tcp client for the unofficial server has issues running commandlines
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:49:25] <Zannick>	mightybyte: that's actually a problem with the engine or your bot, as the engine doesn't think you captured it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:49:45] <mightybyte>	What engine?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:49:58] <Zannick>	the player
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:50:11] <a1k0n>	PlayGame.java outputs the status of each planet each turn
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:50:12] <Zannick>	i call it an engine, sorry for the confusion
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:50:19] <a1k0n>	s/java/jar/
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:50:26] <mightybyte>	Zannick: The program that facilitates the game?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:50:50] <Zannick>	PlayGame.jar
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:50:56] <mightybyte>	Yeah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:50:57] <Zannick>	the server version is engine.py
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:51:04] <mightybyte>	That's what I meant by visualizer/player.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:51:20] <mightybyte>	Ahhh
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:51:24] <Zannick>	ah, the visualizer is ShowGame.jar and is completely unnecessary
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:51:49] <a1k0n>	anyway, yes, if you send exactly the same number of ships as the planet has, plus one, it will fail to capture (there was a bug)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:51:52] Join	JCS^ has joined this channel (jcs@189-46-217-230.dsl.telesp.net.br).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:52:05] <a1k0n>	http://a1k0n.net/temp/PlayGame.jar has the latest code plus some optimization
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:52:30] <mightybyte>	Zannick: Yeah, but I saw the problem through the visualizer, so I couldn't determine whether it was PlayGame.jar or ShowGame.jar that was at fault.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:52:36] <Zannick>	yeah, if you grabbed a starter pack way back when there might still be bugs
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:52:44] <ulope>	j3camero: I noticed today that only about 30 matched are being run per hour. Is this because you haven't gotten around to run the engine on more hosts or because you don't have more hosts to run it on? (I'm asking b/c i have a root server doing pretty much nothing all day long, and would be happy to put a few vms on it if that hepls)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:52:47] <mightybyte>	Ok
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:52:51] <j3camero>	a1k0n did you submit your changes on the issue tracker so I can update the official PlayGame.jar?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:53:01] <a1k0n>	yes, it is issue 69
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:53:11] <a1k0n>	http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/detail?id=69
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:53:14] <j3camero>	ulope: I might take you up on that.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:53:22] <Zannick>	ulope: j3camero: see issue 70
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:53:22] <j3camero>	Thanks a1k0n. You rock.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:53:28] <j3camero>	I will chug through those issues soon.\
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:53:47] <ulope>	Zannick: that too, but still more hardware = more good ;)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:53:47] <Zannick>	the server engine waits 1 sec each turn.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:53:56] <Zannick>	yes :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:54:01] <Zannick>	but i suspect that is why
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:54:12] <Zannick>	if the server is not running games in parallel
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:54:37] <ulope>	j3camero: ok just ping me here or in the forum
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:54:59] <mightybyte>	a1k0n: Your PlayGame.jar has the same problem.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:55:32] <a1k0n>	what is the problem exactly?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:55:52] <mightybyte>	Some of my attacks don't show up as capturing the planets.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:55:57] <Zannick>	oh, is this the fleets disappearing in newer playgame.jar?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:56:03] <a1k0n>	have you figure out under what circumstances?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:56:05] <mightybyte>	(although it still could be in ShowGame.jar)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:56:07] <Zannick>	issue 72?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:56:18] <a1k0n>	yeah, see issue 72?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:56:24] <mightybyte>	a1k0n: Not the nature of the circumstances.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:56:34] <Zannick>	i'll look into it tonight if i can
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:57:00] <a1k0n>	we should just port dhartmei's code back into game.java
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:57:09] <a1k0n>	(with the growth-first bug fixed)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:58:07] <j3camero>	You guys know more about the code than I do!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:58:30] <Zannick>	j3camero: i've done little but fix it over the past few days!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:58:33] <Zannick>	:P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:58:35] <Zannick>	:)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:58:37] <jmcarthur>	heh
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:58:46] <j3camero>	Okay, I am going to quickly create a framework so that I can give a bunch of you committer access on the code repo. I will be back in a few minutes, okie?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:58:57] <jmcarthur>	making it open source was clearly a good idea
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:59:05] <a1k0n>	you guys need to write ICFP contest-style super-precise specs
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:59:07] <j3camero>	Yes clearly it was.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:59:33] <seigen>	j3camero: i also might have a server that can help out...
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:59:34] <mightybyte>	http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/mightybyte/game.out
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:59:42] <mightybyte>	That's the transcript of the game.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [19:59:56] <amstan>	a1k0n: ICFP?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:00:17] <mightybyte>	Speaking of ICFP...anyone here going this year?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:00:38] <a1k0n>	i can't believe i completely missed the icfp contest this year
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:00:52] <seigen>	it sucks how you can win a game and have your rating go down
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:00:56] <a1k0n>	amstan: http://icfpcontest.org/2010/task/
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:01:35] 	 * danielvf back. Taking a look at Mathnerd314's push
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:01:43] <danielvf>	*pull request
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:01:47] <Mathnerd314>	ah, thanks
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:01:48] <j3camero>	seigen: that's how elo works, hehe
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:02:07] <seigen>	j3camero: the tyranny of the random pair! :(
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:02:08] <seigen>	;)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:02:16] <seigen>	what was mathnerd's pull req?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:02:25] <a1k0n>	or in dagaren's case, do nothing but lose two games and be in 2nd place
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:02:33] <Mathnerd314>	seigen: reverse play
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:02:38] <seigen>	?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:03:00] <Mathnerd314>	so you can watch the game in reverse
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:03:57] <seigen>	oh, nice
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:04:06] <ulope>	I still think the fleets should either have an outline or be of a different color. Simetimes i can hardly follow whats happening even when single stepping frames
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:04:40] <seigen>	ulope: i think it's harder when single stepping.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:04:44] <seigen>	your eyes don't get any motion cues
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:04:58] Join	hornairs_ has joined this channel (~hornairs@modemcable004.116-201-24.mc.videotron.ca).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:05:05] Quit	hornairs has left this server (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:05:29] <ulope>	seigen: true. But sometimes fleets seem to vanish but in reality they have reached their goal but you vant see it b/c the planet is of the same color
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:05:45] <jmcarthur>	i think when you single step there could be some arrows or motion blur or something to show the movement
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:06:27] <ulope>	Maybe show the animation stem from the frame before...
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:06:35] <jmcarthur>	also a highlight when ships leave a planet and a blink when they arrive at a planet :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:06:36] <ulope>	s/stem/step/
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:06:50] <mightybyte>	Ugh, this playback format is rather miserable to read.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:06:58] <a1k0n>	yep.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:07:04] Quit	Mathnerd314 has left this server (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.8/20100722155716]).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:08:53] <danielvf>	amstan: You asked about running it localy?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:08:54] <seigen>	anyone else on the tcpserver?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:09:01] <seigen>	i keep getting paired against example :(
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:09:08] <amstan>	danielvf: not me, someone from the forums
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:09:14] <danielvf>	Ah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:09:15] <danielvf>	Okay
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:10:35] <seigen>	a1k0n: i think i'm beating you on tcpserver
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:10:49] <a1k0n>	You LOSE against inverselimit
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:11:01] <seigen>	seigen: i lied, it was cheese_bot i was playing
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:11:05] <danielvf>	Lol, a1k0n, you gotta love how happy it makes people to beat you. :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:11:14] <seigen>	a1k0n: it was cheese-bot i was playing
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:11:17] <inverselimit>	Did you change something?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:11:17] <seigen>	:P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:11:32] <a1k0n>	nice.  i was hanging in there for a while but ultimately doomed
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:11:47] <seigen>	who's inverselimit?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:11:49] <seigen>	mathnerd?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:12:01] <a1k0n>	no, inverselimit is inverselimit
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:12:10] <a1k0n>	i didn't change anything
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:12:17] <seigen>	how bad is it i can recognize the example bot from the fleet printouts scrolling by :(
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:12:18] <a1k0n>	you keeled me fair and square
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:12:44] <a1k0n>	you are now tied with dagaren.. who should probably be purged
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:13:42] <mightybyte>	jmcarthur: Are you working on an engine?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:13:48] <inverselimit>	My bot is still extremely stupid, just tweaking a bit.  Probably just a luck board this time.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:14:50] <a1k0n>	mine is also extremely stupid.  i don't think it will survive the first couple days of the contest as-is
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:14:54] <seigen>	a1k0n: that works really well :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:14:55] <ulope>	who's kitani-exp on tcp?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:15:01] <seigen>	i am.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:15:02] <a1k0n>	it's just a really lucky combination of simple ideas
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:15:20] <ulope>	ah ok :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:15:24] <seigen>	i have a hunch that ideal play here is following a straightforward economic model
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:15:34] <danielvf>	NPV
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:15:39] <seigen>	yeah.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:15:44] <danielvf>	Now I've given away my secrets
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:15:53] <contestbot>	Top 10 players: albert(746), zaphus(403), inverselimit(402), galcon(196), j3camero(194), mistabell(129), seigen(126), Max(15), phreeza(1), Mathnerd314(-111)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:16:08] <seigen>	har har.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:16:17] <seigen>	i'm really bad at crushing that final fleet.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:16:25] <a1k0n>	NPV looks like it derives from markov decision processes
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:16:32] <inverselimit>	agree, mine is economically motivated as well
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:16:39] <a1k0n>	reinforcement learning is isometric
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:16:39] <seigen>	which probably means my "reinforce planets with incoming fleets" is probably buggy.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:16:49] <seigen>	a1k0n: NPV = net present value?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:16:50] <jmcarthur>	mightybyte: define engine
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:16:55] <a1k0n>	seigen: yes
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:17:00] <jmcarthur>	mightybyte: i'm doing my bot from scratch, if that's what you mean
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:17:04] <mightybyte>	jmcarthur: A competing entry
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:17:15] <jmcarthur>	yeah i'm competing
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:17:17] <a1k0n>	the bellman equation is a generalization
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:17:24] <mightybyte>	jmcarthur: Using haskell?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:17:27] <jmcarthur>	yup
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:17:30] <mightybyte>	Me too
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:17:35] <jmcarthur>	awesome
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:17:37] <mightybyte>	Bit the bullet this time.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:17:39] <jmcarthur>	you did C++ last time right?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:17:42] <mightybyte>	Yeah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:17:53] <seigen>	a1k0n: is "discounted cash flows" not a close enough approximation?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:17:53] <mightybyte>	Leveraging a lot of other game code I'd written.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:18:03] <jmcarthur>	well i look forward to competing with you more directly then :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:18:04] <a1k0n>	seigen: no idea!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:18:22] <mightybyte>	jmcarthur: Did you use jaspervdj's starter kit?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:18:23] <seigen>	well, dagaren is not completely idle, btw.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:18:33] <seigen>	just played him.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:18:42] <a1k0n>	oh good
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:19:01] <seigen>	and won :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:19:02] <jmcarthur>	mightybyte: i'm not using it, although i'm taking some inspiration from it in certain ways
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:19:22] <jmcarthur>	i'm a reinvent the wheel kind of guy, i guess
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:20:35] <a1k0n>	ah interesting.  so you promote the value of planets closer to your opponent?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:20:41] <jmcarthur>	mightybyte: i was trying for the past couple of days to get ghc 6.12.3 to work on ubuntu 8.04 (what the official server is running), but failed miserably
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:20:51] <a1k0n>	or closer to other planets that could be overtaken
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:21:25] <Zaphus>	I'm more a "I wonder if this AI change will work...   oh, nope, it didnt... oh crap, forgot to back up the old file..." kind of guy.   Really should get some source control going at home, except I use a removable drive in multiple locations - need a portable source control
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:21:48] <jmcarthur>	Zaphus: you mean like distributed version control? ;)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:22:04] <a1k0n>	heh.  i already have 13 git commits
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:22:09] <seigen>	noooo inverselimit :(
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:22:26] <a1k0n>	yessss inverselimit
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:22:30] <jmcarthur>	Zaphus: most of us here are probably using git. i'm more of a darcs guy. there may be some mercurial guys here. any of those would work for you
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:22:32] <seigen>	Zaphus: yeah, i've got quite a git log already
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:22:33] 	 * a1k0n has a vested interest in inverselimit's elo now
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:22:39] <seigen>	i'm on mercurial
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:23:25] <Zaphus>	can git handle me working offline ?  I sometimes connect the removable drive to a machine I cannot install stuff on (work machines) so would have no git there
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:23:51] <a1k0n>	git doesn't require you to be online ever
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:23:59] <a1k0n>	unless you want to expliclty push code to another machine
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:24:11] <Zaphus>	doesnt require an install either ?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:24:28] <a1k0n>	oh, well, not necessarily though you could just edit code and commit it later
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:24:45] <a1k0n>	i dunno how self-contained it is
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:24:58] <jmcarthur>	it requires something to be installed, yes
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:25:10] <jmcarthur>	well. i think it at least has a few files spread out around the hard drive
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:25:12] <a1k0n>	you can ./configure --prefix=$HOME and install it in your homedir
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:25:20] <jmcarthur>	darcs is a self-contained binary, i think
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:25:34] <jmcarthur>	dunno about mercurial. it's python, so is probably in a million pieces ;)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:25:50] <Zaphus>	I'd rather something self contained that lived on the removable drive so I could just plug in and go anywhere, no need to install stuff on the machine
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:26:26] <jmcarthur>	any of them would probably work if you don't mind having a some bin and lib directories on your portable drive
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:26:35] <seigen>	a1k0n: :(
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:26:35] <jmcarthur>	although darcs would probably be the cleanest of them since it's just a binary
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:26:37] <seigen>	back to tweakin!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:26:50] <jmcarthur>	it also has docs and stuff, but i guess you don't need that
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:27:34] <jmcarthur>	darcs is also easiest to learn, IMO
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:27:51] <jmcarthur>	and i could make a point or two for it being the most powerful, but that would just be controversial :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:28:34] <jmcarthur>	i bet i'm the only darcs fan in here
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:28:46] <icefox>	j3camero: heard that you had the ability to turn on account creation for a minute, can I join or should i wait till friday?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:28:49] <a1k0n>	probably but i won't deny git is a pain to learn
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:29:02] <Zaphus>	I'll have a look, don't care how much stuff lives on the drive, just want it to be extremely portable
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:29:22] Quit	seigen has left this server (Quit: time to go home).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:30:36] <jmcarthur>	i actually found git pretty enjoyable, especially when i was first learning it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:30:46] <jmcarthur>	didn't find the learning curve very steep
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:30:57] <jmcarthur>	but whenever i use it now i just feel like i'm missing critical features
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:31:07] <jmcarthur>	(of course darcs would feel the same way to a git user)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:31:26] <CIA-1>	Planet-Wars-Canvas-Visualizer: Daniel Von Fange master * r738067b / (css/style.css index.php js/visualizer.js): Show title above canvas. I think I like this better. Comments welcome. Also set browser title with player names. - http://bit.ly/cxywTe
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:32:22] <jmcarthur>	@where+ haskell-starter http://github.com/jaspervdj/planet-wars-haskell
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:32:22] <lambdabot>	I will never forget.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:32:38] <mightybyte>	a1k0n: Yeah, it looks like there's a bug in your improved PlayGame.jar.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:32:50] <jmcarthur>	@where+ jmcarthur http://ai-contest.com/profile.php?user_id=3888
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:32:50] <lambdabot>	It is forever etched in my memory.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:34:03] <jmcarthur>	!rank
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:34:03] <contestbot>	I am not sure what you mean by "rank"
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:34:06] <jmcarthur>	!ranks
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:34:06] <contestbot>	I am not sure what you mean by "ranks"
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:34:08] <jmcarthur>	!rankings
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:34:08] <contestbot>	Top 10 players: albert(693), zaphus(421), inverselimit(400), j3camero(213), galcon(208), seigen(172), mistabell(164), Max(24), phreeza(7), cheese_bot(-34)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:34:50] <JCS^>	!help
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:34:50] <contestbot>	I am not sure what you mean by "help"
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:35:06] <JCS^>	!rankings
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:35:06] <amstan>	JCS^: rankings is all he does
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:35:06] <contestbot>	Top 10 players: albert(683), zaphus(415), inverselimit(386), mistabell(198), galcon(197), j3camero(183), seigen(170), Max(13), phreeza(7), cheese_bot(-37)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:35:12] <JCS^>	ahah, ok
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:35:40] <a1k0n>	mightybyte: svn co http://ai-contest.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/planet_wars/viz
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:35:46] <ulope>	I've just put my complete rewrite of the python interface (more pythonic, sone nice set based operations on fleets and planets) on github in case anyone is interested: http://github.com/ulope/planetwars-python-kit
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:36:28] <jmcarthur>	@where+ python-starter-unofficial http://github.com/ulope/planetwars-python-kit
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:36:29] <lambdabot>	It is stored.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:36:35] <a1k0n>	mightybyte: the combat resolution is utterly crazy as you'll see
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:36:46] <mightybyte>	heh
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:37:46] <a1k0n>	(as is the indentation)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:37:59] <a1k0n>	Game.java circa line 212
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:39:14] <mightybyte>	Ugh
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:40:21] <inverselimit>	ulope: nice
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:40:33] <a1k0n>	i WIN against example!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:40:48] <ulope>	inverselimit: thanks.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:41:04] <mightybyte>	Open up http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/mightybyte/game.out with ShowGame.jar and you'll see the problem.  Several fleets just disappear.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:42:14] <jmcarthur>	i can't wait to replace that with the canvas visualizer
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:42:37] <a1k0n>	we do need a client-side game visualizer that isn't the sucky java one
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:42:47] <a1k0n>	or maybe the java one could just be made not sucky
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:42:55] <jmcarthur>	hmm
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:43:09] <mightybyte>	Grrrr, maybe I'm going to have to bite the bullet and write my own in Haskell.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:43:23] <jmcarthur>	we could make a tourny script that generates a bunch of game logs and a handy html page with info and links to replays
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:43:34] <jmcarthur>	replays in the canvas visualizer, that is
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:43:45] <jmcarthur>	it wouldn't be something you can watch live though
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:44:02] <a1k0n>	yeah we need live visualiztion
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:44:20] <a1k0n>	mightybyte: whoa wtf.  i've never seen that
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:44:24] <a1k0n>	what JRE are you using?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:44:32] <mightybyte>	Uhhhhh...
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:44:41] <danielvf>	jmcarthur: We definilty need that
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:45:00] <mightybyte>	Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0_20-b02-279-10M3065)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:45:04] <danielvf>	To really know how good your bot is, you can't go off one game
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:45:13] <a1k0n>	Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0_20-b02-279-10M3065)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:45:18] <jmcarthur>	danielvf: yeah, but it would be nice if you could watch it live as well
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:45:20] <ratatata>	a1k0n: was the PlayGame.jar you linked fixed against 'disappearing fleets' ?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:45:22] <a1k0n>	same one.  huh.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:45:24] <jmcarthur>	danielvf: like the one we had in the last contest
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:45:35] <jmcarthur>	i forget who made that...
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:45:35] <a1k0n>	ratatata: it appears not, though it was current svn code
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:45:53] <a1k0n>	a combined engine/viz would be nice
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:46:03] <danielvf>	The visualizer can easily be modified to handle new turns added live
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:46:10] <danielvf>	What about Titanioum
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:46:12] <tapwater>	personally, I like how the engine and visualizer are separate
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:46:19] <tapwater>	that's what made the js visualizer possible
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:46:24] <danielvf>	http://www.appcelerator.com/
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:46:28] <jmcarthur>	tapwater: it's nice to play replays, but it's also nice to watch live
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:46:36] <danielvf>	Run a python enigine
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:46:37] <a1k0n>	or if the engine output compressed base64 strings that a viz could parse and you could use to debug frames
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:46:51] <danielvf>	and display in a webkit window
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:47:44] <tapwater>	jmcarthur: for live games, something will need to read the engine and broadcast in real time
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:47:52] <tapwater>	I don't think combining the two is necessary
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:48:08] <jmcarthur>	tapwater: no they dont' need to be the same program
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:48:21] <jmcarthur>	but it'd be nice to at least have a visualizer that doesn't require the whole game in advance
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:48:31] <tapwater>	true
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:48:59] <tapwater>	I'm sure it'll be easy to mod the js visualizer to read via websockets :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:49:21] <danielvf>	jmcarthur: I build a node.js server that streamed selections from the log  file live to the visualizer
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:49:26] <jmcarthur>	danielvf: so your idea is to have a client side python engine that interfaces with the visualizer via ajax or something?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:49:59] <jmcarthur>	"client side" meaning "local"
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:50:09] <jmcarthur>	not "browser" of course
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:50:18] <danielvf>	With titanium, I think they give you API's to have python scripts talk directly to the apps window
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:50:27] <danielvf>	which is running it's own webkit browser
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:50:27] <jmcarthur>	i'm just not familiar with it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:50:31] <jmcarthur>	ah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:50:39] <a1k0n>	tapwater: hey that's a good idea
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:50:56] <a1k0n>	or yeah node.js
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:51:10] <danielvf>	But then the user has to install node. :(
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:51:13] <mightybyte>	Are any of the contest organizers here right now?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:51:26] <danielvf>	Better to hack the streaming onto python perhaps
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:51:32] <jmcarthur>	i wouldn't mind installing some stuff to get decent local real-time viewing
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:51:34] <danielvf>	or even the java one
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:51:47] <jmcarthur>	or is node.js a lot of work to set up?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:51:56] <a1k0n>	it's pretty easy to install
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:51:58] <hornairs_>	i think a node.js server just watching the log file for changes would be sufficient
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:52:09] <hornairs_>	a1k0n is right its not bad at all
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:52:10] <jmcarthur>	amstan, j3camero: around?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:52:12] <a1k0n>	it installs a binary called 'node' which runs javascript code
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:52:13] <danielvf>	The advantage of titanium is that you would have a one  version for all OS.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:52:18] <amstan>	jmcarthur: idk
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:52:23] <danielvf>	node doesn't run on windows though
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:52:28] <danielvf>	not at the moment
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:52:28] <jmcarthur>	heh
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:52:31] <mightybyte>	amstan: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/detail?id=73
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:52:32] <a1k0n>	ah yeah.  windows.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:53:03] <jmcarthur>	screw windows :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:53:22] <a1k0n>	mightybyte: if you (cat maps/map(whichever).txt; echo go) | ./yourbot, what does it print?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:54:05] <a1k0n>	and which map is it?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:54:18] <mightybyte>	map7
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:54:58] <hornairs_>	danielvf you want to make something to visualize local games live right? wouldn't something to visualize games during the competition be better since everyone could watch it?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:55:09] <a1k0n>	i want to see if i can reproduce by using (cat your_cmds; yes go) as a bot
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:55:18] <jmcarthur>	hornairs_: this is for testing and debugging
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:55:35] <danielvf>	hornairs_:  During the competition, a delay of a couple minutes is fine
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:55:39] <danielvf>	for debugging, it's not
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:55:46] <danielvf>	http://brains.s3.amazonaws.com/posts/2010/vis1.2/index.html
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:55:50] <jmcarthur>	hornairs_: it stinks to wait through a whole game just to open up the viewer and see that the first couple of moves were stupid buggy things that you could have fixed immediately if you had been able to see it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:55:55] <mightybyte>	a1k0n: 1 17 5; 1 18 5; 1 11 13; 1 12 13; 1 0 38; 1 5 23; go
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:56:08] <mightybyte>	Where semicolons are actually newlines.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:56:11] <hornairs_>	jmcarthur i understand, hm
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:56:15] <danielvf>	(Not an official version) - Mouse over to see numbers.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:56:40] <danielvf>	Thoughs?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:56:56] Quit	McLeopold has left this server (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:57:17] <jmcarthur>	danielvf: it's prettier but not very useful :\
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:57:41] <jmcarthur>	a button to toggle them might be better
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:57:57] <jmcarthur>	and use mouseovers to give stats on individuals rather than on all of them?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:58:02] <ulope>	danielvf: very nice with the mouseover-only display of fleet strength
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:58:05] <jmcarthur>	dunno, just thinking aloud
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:58:24] <danielvf>	The target audience for the visualizer is coders. So numbers are important.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:58:44] <jmcarthur>	yeah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:59:04] <ulope>	jmcarthur: Individual stat would be even cooler though.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:59:34] <jmcarthur>	individual stats could also include more information
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [20:59:49] <jmcarthur>	like turns remaining, highlight the source and destination planets, etc.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:00:50] <jmcarthur>	i still don't like how if you go to the beginning of the game and then step one turn the planet's numbers drop but you don't see any fleets
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:00:57] <jmcarthur>	because they are just overlapping the planets
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:01:12] <tapwater>	wait, so is growth supposed to happen before or after movement?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:01:51] <danielvf>	Yeah. I think I'm going to go back to numbers, and leave in the if for turning them on and off, so I can do it with the console for my own viewing
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:01:57] <jmcarthur>	all i know is it's supposed to happen before attacks. i don't know about before or after departures
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:02:21] <tapwater>	ah ok
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:02:26] <tapwater>	cause that's not happening haha
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:02:56] <tapwater>	my planets are being captured when a growth before attack would have saved them
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:03:01] <jmcarthur>	does anybody know about whether growth is supposed to be before or after departures?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:03:23] <mightybyte>	rtfc
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:03:24] <danielvf>	jmcarthur:  check the source
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:03:25] <mightybyte>	:)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:03:28] <a1k0n>	supposed to be before, tcp server has it after
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:03:29] <danielvf>	lol
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:03:36] <jmcarthur>	the source is always inconsistent!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:03:42] <jmcarthur>	see?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:03:42] <a1k0n>	oh shit, i have the disappearing fleet problem too
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:03:44] <jmcarthur>	:P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:03:47] <a1k0n>	i somehow didn't notice that
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:03:48] <mightybyte>	Good
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:03:57] <a1k0n>	if i send two extra ships it seems to take over
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:04:05] <mightybyte>	Very strange
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:04:13] <a1k0n>	actually whoa
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:04:20] <mightybyte>	Integer rounding error? :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:04:21] <CIA-1>	Planet-Wars-Canvas-Visualizer: Daniel Von Fange master * r742b109 / js/visualizer.js : Allow toggling via javascript of showing or hiding fleets ship counts. No UI yet - don't want to clutter things. Maybe oneday with we have a very unobtrusive options menu. - http://bit.ly/aQffVD
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:04:22] <a1k0n>	it sends 13 to the empty 12 planet
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:04:24] <a1k0n>	loses the fleet
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:04:29] <a1k0n>	does it again, and that time it wins with 1
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:05:10] <mightybyte>	Someone needs to set issue 73 to high priority.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:06:26] <a1k0n>	we also need to check whether the python engine does it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:06:34] <j3camero>	mightybyte: I will look at the issues in a few minutes. I am just setting up some structure so I can give a bunch of people in this channel committer access on the repo.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:06:46] <mightybyte>	Ahh, ok.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:07:22] <mightybyte>	Does the tourney server use Java or Python?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:07:41] <a1k0n>	python afaik
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:09:51] <j3camero>	python
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:10:08] <j3camero>	Let me be clearer there. The python engine, engine.py, is used by the server.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:10:50] <mightybyte>	And that can't easily be used by us for testing right?  (due to db stuff amongst other things)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:10:53] <jmcarthur>	hmm... i think i may have found an exploit
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:11:03] <jmcarthur>	i am going to try a harmless effect
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:11:14] <jmcarthur>	it will take a few minutes of coding first
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:12:35] <ratatata>	g'night!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:13:31] Quit	ratatata has left this server (Quit: Page closed).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:15:01] <jmcarthur>	it's not much of an exploit really, i guess
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:15:05] <jmcarthur>	i'm still gonna try it though
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:15:10] <jmcarthur>	before i explain it ;)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:15:52] <contestbot>	Top 10 players: albert(644), cheese_bot(444), zaphus(375), UloPee(316), inverselimit(312), mistabell(241), galcon(143), j3camero(106), seigen(92), Max(-52)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:17:38] <tapwater>	example bot needs to die >_<
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:18:11] <a1k0n>	hey that's a cool map: http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1283994970|UloPe|a1k0n
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:18:18] <ulope>	tapwater: very true
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:19:01] <tapwater>	a1k0n: I don't like distant maps like that lol
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:19:02] <ulope>	a1k0n: very "atoll" like
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:19:15] <tapwater>	distance is my bot's weakness
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:19:43] <CIA-1>	Planet-Wars-Canvas-Visualizer: Daniel Von Fange master * r4653b08 / js/visualizer.js : Keyboard control for play/pause, forward step, and reverse step. Space, left arrow, and right arrow. - http://bit.ly/9PtOjA
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:20:20] <danielvf>	tapwater:  Yeah, it's very pretty
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:20:48] <danielvf>	Whoops, meant that for a1k0n
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:23:15] <ulope>	Something strage happend here: http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1283995198|UloPe|example
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:23:47] <a1k0n>	hahah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:23:58] <ulope>	I kept getting this message: "You issued an invalid order: src 2, dst X, ships YY"
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:24:05] <CIA-1>	Planet-Wars-Canvas-Visualizer: Daniel Von Fange master * r709a27b / js/visualizer.js : Start fleets out not at the center of the planet, but closer to the edge. - http://bit.ly/a3KYO1
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:24:33] <danielvf>	You sent ships from planet A to planet A?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:25:09] <danielvf>	dhartmei: You around?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:25:42] <ulope>	danielvf: no either the engine odr my bot faild to notice thet i already own that planet in the top right
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:26:02] <danielvf>	Ah.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:26:05] <ulope>	sadly i have no log for that game...
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:26:35] <danielvf>	lambdabot: help
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:30:29] Quit	Utkarsh has left this server (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:31:59] <danielvf>	Whenever someone sees dhartmei arount, tell him new visualizer code is up at http://brains.s3.amazonaws.com/posts/2010/vis1.2/index.html
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:32:25] <danielvf>	All he needs to do is change the HTML in the <header> tags
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:32:35] <danielvf>	And point to the 1.2 css and js
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:33:06] <ulope>	danielvf: you can use @ tell (w/o the space) to msg him
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:33:18] <danielvf>	Thanks
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:33:26] <ulope>	@tell danielvf some msg
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:33:26] <lambdabot>	Consider it noted.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:33:35] <ulope>	danielvf: say smthng.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:33:53] <danielvf>	@tell dhartmei new visualizer code is up at http://brains.s3.amazonaws.com/posts/2010/vis1.2/index.html
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:33:54] <lambdabot>	Consider it noted.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:34:04] <danielvf>	Hello (test)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:34:05] <lambdabot>	danielvf: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:34:10] <danielvf>	Nice
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:34:34] <danielvf>	@tell dhartmei all you need to do is change the HTML in the <header> tags
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:34:34] <lambdabot>	Consider it noted.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:34:46] Join	Utkarsh has joined this channel (~admin@117.201.81.198).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:34:52] <danielvf>	@tell dhartmei And point to the 1.2 css and js
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:34:52] <lambdabot>	Consider it noted.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:35:43] <danielvf>	BTW, try out http://brains.s3.amazonaws.com/posts/2010/vis1.2/index.html and see if the keyboard stuff works for you.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:38:40] Join	PurplePanda has joined this channel (~PurplePan@unaffiliated/purplepanda).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:39:16] <Zaphus>	On the website, in the Organisation field - any chance that we could have "Private Citizen" or something like that (self, etc), for people who are not affilliated with anything ?   Other implies some other affiliation rather than none
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:39:19] <ulope>	danielvf: Works nice in chrome
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:39:36] <danielvf>	ulope: thanks
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:39:57] <ulope>	danielvf: I thnk i liked the player names inside the canvas with the colord boxes better
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:42:05] <amstan>	Zaphus: put the request on the forums
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:42:20] Join	McLeopold has joined this channel (~scott@c-76-121-152-123.hsd1.wa.comcast.net).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:43:10] <j3camero>	Okay, who wants to become a committer so they can help out with these issues, and add new features? Give this page a read: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/wiki/HowToContribute. You will still be able to participate in the contest.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:43:13] <danielvf>	ulope: Okay. Noted. I'm still trying to think about it.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:43:33] <j3camero>	danielvf, did you make the canvas visualizer?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:43:46] <danielvf>	j3camero: Javache and I.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:44:10] <j3camero>	danielvf: I cannot express how impressed I am with that visualizer. I think we should use it instead of the one that's there now. What do you think?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:44:45] <danielvf>	j3camero: I think it's definitely better. Just detect IE and serve it the old one.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:47:09] <jmcarthur>	do it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:47:37] <JCS^>	!rankings
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:47:37] <contestbot>	Top 10 players: albert(641), zaphus(376), cheese_bot(373), inverselimit(317), UloPee(231), mistabell(181), galcon(159), seigen(106), j3camero(88), Max(-33)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:47:43] <amstan>	jmcarthur: you need a @how
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:47:51] <amstan>	@how tocontribute
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:47:51] <lambdabot>	Maybe you meant: show yow
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:47:57] <danielvf>	Okay.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:48:15] <jmcarthur>	amstan: heh
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:48:26] <jmcarthur>	amstan: unfortunately i do not maintain this instance of lambdabot
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:48:32] <amstan>	jmcarthur: who does?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:48:35] <jmcarthur>	amstan: i could run my own, but i'd have to learn how first
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:48:40] <jmcarthur>	i forget
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:48:59] <jmcarthur>	one of the past maintainers actually lives nearby though
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:50:13] <amstan>	k.. start whoising li85-105.members.linode.com 
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:50:38] <j3camero>	danielvf: will you do me the honor of becoming a committer in the code repo. Even if you just commit your visualizer then never come back, I would love to have you.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:51:06] <danielvf>	I'd love to.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:51:58] <Zaphus>	@tell j3camero  Put me down as a committer, I can't promise I'll do it (damn, will need to install SVN too won't I) but some small improvements might come from me if I get the time :-)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:51:58] <lambdabot>	Consider it noted.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:52:04] <CIA-1>	Planet-Wars-Canvas-Visualizer: Daniel Von Fange master * r7b4e06e / js/visualizer.js : Shrunk size and centered dirty overpainting box, since that's still the slowest part of the visualizer. - http://bit.ly/ai0hWV
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:52:08] <madsy>	Is this a bug? In the recording format, when new fleets are created, the ETA is always one less than the total trip time.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:52:43] <amstan>	"This could cause you to accidentally commit a change to trunk. If you do this, the world will end."
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:52:44] <danielvf>	madsy: no, since when the fleet arrives it does battle calculations
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:52:53] <madsy>	So if the distance it should travel is 17, then ETA is 16 rounds.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:53:09] <madsy>	danielvf: Pardon?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:53:17] <madsy>	s/rounds/turns
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:53:18] <danielvf>	oh, nvm, wrong end
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:53:51] <danielvf>	madsy: the server reports how the map looks at the end of a turn
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:54:10] <madsy>	Yes I know that. That's not what I mean.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:54:29] <madsy>	I mean when new fleets are initially created.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:54:44] <danielvf>	They are created one turn away
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:54:52] <madsy>	Yes, isn't that a bug?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:54:57] <danielvf>	No
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:55:01] <j3camero>	danielvf and Zaphus: read the following document then send me your @gmail address. Tell me that you will always use a branch instead of committing directly to trunk, and I will add you as committers. I would love to have you both! http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/wiki/HowToContribute
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:55:01] <lambdabot>	j3camero: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:55:23] <danielvf>	if you are on turn 1, and sent a ship to a planet 3 away
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:55:32] <danielvf>	it should take two turns
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:55:43] <danielvf>	The server comes back to you at the start of turn 2
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:55:56] <madsy>	I think it should take three, but oh well :-P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:56:21] <danielvf>	Yeah, I meant to say a planet two awat
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:56:22] <madsy>	danielvf: Thanks
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:56:33] <danielvf>	and would arrive on turn three
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:56:56] Join	dmj has joined this channel (6c01e855@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.1.232.85).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:57:06] <danielvf>	..and server says, here's a fleet, total travel time will be 2, eta 1
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:57:11] <danielvf>	j3camero: reading it now
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:57:19] <madsy>	I was puzzled, because I'm coding a viewer. And I assumed the ships would initially start in the planet center.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:57:49] <danielvf>	They sort of do, but it all happens inside the server
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:58:01] <danielvf>	when it's processing the turn
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:58:05] <j3camero>	I think they probably should start in the center. If the travel distance is 2, and we are on turn 1, then they should arrive at turn 3.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:58:23] <danielvf>	Right, but the client doesn't find out about them until turn 2
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:58:32] <j3camero>	True enough.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [21:59:44] <j3camero>	I think the problem is that the game loop goes: (1) Process client orders (2) Advance one turn (3) Report game state. Would it fix the problem if it was 1, 3, 2 instead?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:00:31] <danielvf>	j3camero: That would seem wrong from a clients pov.
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:00:48] <Zaphus>	3 1 2 ?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:00:58] <danielvf>	Since things like ship building would have taken place, but the client would not know about them.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:01:08] <ulope>	3 1 2 == 1 2 3
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:01:32] <ulope>	Zaphus: just shifted by one
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:04:09] <JCS^>	it would be really nice if dhartmei's server send the game_id on game end
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:05:08] <danielvf>	@tell dhartmei JCS^: it would be really nice if dhartmei's server sent the game_id on game end
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:05:08] <lambdabot>	Consider it noted.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:05:21] <j3camero>	Is dhartmei here now?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:05:33] <j3camero>	Is he the one who built the third part TCP game server?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:05:43] <danielvf>	j3camero: yes, that's him
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:05:49] <danielvf>	I think he's afk
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:05:55] <ulope>	j3camero: doesn't seem to be on atm
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:06:11] <jmcarthur>	eh, my exploit won't work (for now)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:06:52] <jmcarthur>	well, actually........
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:10:47] <j3camero>	@tell dhartmei: Hey dhartmei, it's Jeff Cameron, the contest organizer. I hear you have created a TCP game server, like during the Tron contest. That is wicked cool. I would really like it if you would accept commit access on the main repository, so you can build features and improve the contest if the urge strikes you. Can you send me your Gmail address so I can add you? Also, can you join the developer mailing list at http://groups.go
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:10:47] <lambdabot>	Consider it noted.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:11:22] <j3camero>	Speaking of, danielvf what is your @gmail address, so I can add you?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:11:27] <danielvf>	j3camero: So you need a gmail...
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:11:40] <j3camero>	I believe only @gmail addresses work yeah.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:11:43] <j3camero>	Not sure why.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:12:07] <ulope>	<snark>Maybe because google code is the new sourceforge</snark>
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:12:18] <j3camero>	Zing.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:12:29] <amstan>	you mean github is the new sourceforge?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:12:31] <j3camero>	Okay, anybody want to become a committer? I seriously want as many people as possible.
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:13:26] <ulope>	amstan: That depends on wether sf is something good or bad in your book
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:13:41] <jmcarthur>	oh my sploit failed because haskell is not yet enabled on the server
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:13:54] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: what kind of sploit?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:14:15] <jmcarthur>	one that i want to test before declaring :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:14:23] <j3camero>	lol
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:14:23] <jmcarthur>	(my payload is harmless)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:14:29] <j3camero>	Okay fine.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:14:32] <ulope>	j3camero: I would give it a go, but can't promise that i'll actually do anything
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:14:43] <jmcarthur>	if it works it will create a file one level up from my projects working directory on the server
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:14:46] Quit	Candid has left this server (Client Quit).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:14:49] <jmcarthur>	called SPLOIT
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:15:00] Part	PurplePanda has left this channel.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:15:19] <mistabell>	is there a .java of the ShowGame.jar file on the svn?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:15:37] <j3camero>	That's fine ulope. Read this http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/wiki/HowToContribute, let me know that you understand never to commit to trunk, then let me know your @gmail address.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:15:52] <contestbot>	Top 10 players: cheese_bot(630), albert(610), zaphus(388), inverselimit(297), UloPee(250), mistabell(182), galcon(142), seigen(84), j3camero(67), Max(-53)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:16:04] <j3camero>	mistabell: why yes there is. Would you like to become a committer so you can take a crack at fixing what's wrong with it?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:16:10] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: the thing is, if this works i'm not entirely sure how to fix it...
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:16:18] <jmcarthur>	aside from banning haskell :(
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:16:19] <mistabell>	hrm.  I didn't see it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:16:34] Quit	JensTi has left this server (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:16:58] <mistabell>	I just want to speed it up
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:17:10] <jmcarthur>	it works locally for me
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:17:13] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: I am fine with people trying sploits, as long as you communicate with an admin very closely, so we can watch while you try it, and so we can have a say before something potentially dangerous happens. Give it a go, and let me know how it goes.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:17:25] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: did you enable haskell?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:17:39] <j3camero>	Hang on.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:17:42] <jmcarthur>	k
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:18:23] <j3camero>	How does one invoke a haskell program that has been compiled with ghc?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:18:24] <ulope>	j3camero: Read & understood. (And remembered why I switched to git ;))
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:18:32] <jmcarthur>	directly as a binary
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:18:36] <j3camero>	ulope: yeah I know. svn blows.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:18:41] <jmcarthur>	but that's not the sploit
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:18:47] <danielvf>	ulope: Lol, you are telling me
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:18:57] <j3camero>	ulope: what is your @gmail?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:19:02] <j3camero>	Or PM it to me
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:19:14] <danielvf>	I'm about to head out for the night
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:19:47] <ulope>	Uh.. i tought i msg'd you j3camero
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:19:53] <jmcarthur>	actually i bet this can be corrected if it works
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:20:25] <dmj>	j3camero: I'm probably in the same boat as ulope.  I might not help much, but I can look around.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:20:34] <mightybyte>	j3camero: The best thing is to build the haskell program with "ghc --make" and then run the resulting binary.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:20:56] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: oh are you trying to build and run what i just uploaded?
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:21:31] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: the repository already has the code to compile haskell. it just needs to be added to the database i think
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:21:36] <j3camero>	ulope, danielvf, Zaphus: you are all committers now. Enjoy! If the urge strikes you, fix an issue or add a feature. But there is no pressure. Good to have you on board.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:21:45] <danielvf>	j3camero: Thanks
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:21:57] <ulope>	j3camero: cool, thanks
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:22:57] <danielvf>	ulope: you could make your python code cache planet distances
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:23:58] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: give it a shot now. I enabled Haskell. Please always plan attempted sploits carefully with an admin. It's good for security if done this way.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:24:19] <Zaphus>	first commit:     if (botname=='zaphus') then send otherbots move through to zaphus before asking for zaphus's move   :-)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:24:33] <ulope>	danielvf: yes I thought about that and will probably build something along those lines but I wanted to have an api where it would be possible to query ba range (e.g. all planets from 1 to 6 turns distance)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:24:45] <j3camero>	danielvf: do you feel like creating a branch and replacing the web visualizer with the one you made?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:25:26] <j3camero>	Zaphus: if (botname == "Accoun") { lose_game(); }
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:25:47] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: "The auto-compile environment could not locate your main code file."
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:25:48] <danielvf>	j3camero: I was thinking about making a second php file for the new visualizer, so that it can be they can be live in parallel for testing, then just replace the old after we know it works.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:26:15] <Zaphus>	you'll need to get it working on IE (doesnt seem to work there)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:26:25] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: i did have a MyBot.hs in it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:26:49] <danielvf>	Zaphus: We'll fall back to the old visualizer for IE
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:26:51] <ulope>	Ok I'm off to bed. Its 4:30 am for me already (again, argh!)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:26:51] Quit	mistabell has left this server (Quit: Page closed).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:26:59] <danielvf>	ulope: Night
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:27:08] <ulope>	night all
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:28:36] <j3camero>	danielvf: that sounds like a solid approach. Still use a branch, since it's not that much extra work.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:28:58] <danielvf>	j3camero: Right. Got that part. :D
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:29:02] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: it should list the files it's looking for in that email. Did it list MyBot.hs?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:29:11] <jmcarthur>	yes it did
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:29:12] 	 * danielvf goes to bed
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:29:17] <jmcarthur>	but it still claimed not to see it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:29:27] <j3camero>	danielvf: awesome. I can't wait to get that new viz up and running. It's so much smoother and prettier.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:29:28] <amstan>	perhaps we need to make a devel forum
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:29:55] <danielvf>	j3camero: yeah, me either.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:31:02] <j3camero>	amstan: will the mailing list work? http://groups.google.com/group/ai-contest-discuss
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:31:35] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: Try submitting it once more. I am not sure why it's not picking up your file. If not, send the zip file to jeff@ai-contest.com.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:31:40] <jmcarthur>	k
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:32:12] <amstan>	"How do you want to read this group?" this is so complicated... lol
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:32:14] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: oh i know why :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:32:18] <jmcarthur>	it's my fault
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:32:22] <jmcarthur>	sorry bout that
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:33:50] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: okay, the compilation succeeded
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:34:08] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: now just look for a file called SPLOIT above my bot's directory (where i shouldn't have access)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:34:19] <amstan>	jmcarthur: i can do this too
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:34:36] <jmcarthur>	amstan: or you then :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:36:04] <amstan>	j3camero: what's with the shell? tab completion doesn't work, up down don't work
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:36:21] <jmcarthur>	oh, SPLOITED, not SPLOIT
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:36:34] <jmcarthur>	i forgot what i called it :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:36:55] <j3camero>	amstan: change your shell then, n00b
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:37:16] <amstan>	zomg, much better
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:37:17] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: just so I know where to look, is this file being create during compilation, or during runtime?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:37:20] <amstan>	stupid /bin/sh
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:37:22] <jmcarthur>	and sadly i just attempted what i thought might fix it here, but my fix didn't work
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:37:25] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: compile time
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:37:51] <amstan>	find SPLOITED in /home does not give me anything
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:38:08] <jmcarthur>	encouraging
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:38:15] <j3camero>	amstan: wrong place to look
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:38:19] <jmcarthur>	discouraging
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:38:25] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: okay it worked. SPOLITED was there.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:38:30] <amstan>	j3camero: where?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:38:32] <jmcarthur>	dang
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:38:44] <amstan>	jmcarthur: so.. what did you do?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:38:52] <jmcarthur>	we need a way to disable template haskell
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:38:58] <j3camero>	In planet_wars/submissions/ in the contest environment. where the stuff gets compiled.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:39:17] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: lol. I didn't think any languages would let you do that...
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:39:21] <amstan>	j3camero: where's that?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:39:36] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: it's basically the ability to run arbitrary haskell code at compile time
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:39:39] <j3camero>	amstan: /home/contest/ai-contest/planet_wars/submissions/
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:39:50] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: i didn't consider performing IO with it until just now though
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:39:56] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: wow fuck. That is bad news for Haskell, haha.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:40:09] <jmcarthur>	yeah :(
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:40:10] <Mathnerd314>	jmcarthur, j3camero: couldn't you just apply the same restrictions to compile-time that you apply to runtime?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:40:18] <jmcarthur>	i'm asking in #haskell if there is a way
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:40:24] <jmcarthur>	to disable it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:40:29] <j3camero>	Oh gawd. Now I need to think about sandboxing the compile pipeline like we do with the runtime. Ugh.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:40:48] <amstan>	j3camero: sandbox, but allow creation of object files
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:40:51] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: much appreciate. Wanna become a committer so you can fix the problem if there is a way to fix it?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:41:01] <jmcarthur>	sure
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:41:13] <jmcarthur>	i'm researching it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:41:18] <j3camero>	Nice
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:41:34] <jmcarthur>	because... well... i really want to be able to use haskell :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:41:46] <jmcarthur>	the only other way i can think of would be to allow me to upload binaries
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:41:46] <j3camero>	amstan: I think we could sandbox the compile pipeline pretty easily. We would just have to move all the files into the sandbox, compile them in the sandbox, then send all the files back out.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:41:53] <jmcarthur>	which is oddly safer than allowing haskell right now :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:42:11] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: strangely enough...
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:42:52] <jmcarthur>	(and i wouldn't be opposed to uploading binaries *cough cough*)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:44:57] <JCS^>	a1k0n's bot really owns with the expansion tatics
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:45:58] <Mathnerd314>	JCS^: game?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:46:27] <JCS^>	hm, sorry?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:46:50] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: okay i have a fix. not completely ideal, but it's probably okay
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:46:56] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: ghc-pkg hide template-haskell
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:46:59] <Mathnerd314>	JCS^: which game in particular does he own in?
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:47:20] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: that at least hides the functions that allow arbitrary IO to execute at compile time
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:47:35] <jmcarthur>	it also hides all other template haskell functions, which is probably okay
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:47:47] <amstan>	jmcarthur: it seems that #haskell is ignoring you
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:47:52] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: that should be a run-once command
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:47:59] <jmcarthur>	amstan: yeah. unusual
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:48:09] <JCS^>	Mathnerd314: everygame, http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/getplayer?player=a1k0n
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:48:18] <Zaphus>	jmcarthur:    1 match, a loss, and you take 3rd place on the ladder...   thats why people think the rankings are bjorked, even if the maths is correct
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:48:27] <jmcarthur>	Zaphus: lol
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:48:34] <jmcarthur>	Zaphus: my bot is set up to crash, actually
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:48:49] <Zaphus>	even more impressive to take 3rd place then!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:48:52] <jmcarthur>	it shouldn't win any matches at all
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:49:10] <jmcarthur>	!rankings
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:49:10] <contestbot>	Top 10 players: albert(584), cheese_bot(455), jmcarthur(436), zaphus(375), UloPee(337), inverselimit(278), mistabell(185), galcon(93), j3camero(42), seigen(-14)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:49:11] <JCS^>	Mathnerd314: my user is "javatest", running DualBot, on my java client,
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:49:13] <jmcarthur>	lol
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:50:24] <Mathnerd314>	JCS^: I just forgot a1k0n didn't have an account on the main site yet :p
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:51:12] <jmcarthur>	amstan: if you are able to run the command i just mentioned earlier i recommend going ahead and doing it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:51:26] <amstan>	jmcarthur: do what?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:51:33] <jmcarthur>	amstan: ghc-pkg hide template-haskell
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:51:38] <jmcarthur>	it has to be as root
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:51:45] <amstan>	i don't think i have root
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:51:53] <jmcarthur>	okay
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:52:08] <amstan>	amstan is not in the sudoers file.  This incident will be reported.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:52:19] <jmcarthur>	you're in trouble now
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:52:19] <amstan>	j3camero: perhaps i should get sudo
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:53:05] <Zaphus>	!rankings
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:53:06] <contestbot>	Top 10 players: albert(584), jmcarthur(436), cheese_bot(434), zaphus(374), UloPee(325), inverselimit(279), mistabell(185), galcon(95), j3camero(44), seigen(-16)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:53:16] <Zaphus>	thats from 3 losses - this ratings system needs looking at
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:53:16] <jmcarthur>	!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:53:17] <contestbot>	I am not sure what you mean by ""
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:53:32] <jmcarthur>	thanks contestbot
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:53:55] <jmcarthur>	maybe contestbot should just stay silent for commands it doesn't know
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:54:04] <amstan>	jmcarthur: i can do that
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:54:13] <jmcarthur>	:D
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:54:33] <Zaphus>	3 / 3 losses, no Elo system would ever put you in 2nd place against people with 90%+ win ratings
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:54:58] <jmcarthur>	i would feel better if it would just show a flipping confidence interval
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:55:19] Quit	contestbot has left this server (Remote host closed the connection).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:55:22] <jmcarthur>	hey i dropped now
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:55:26] <jmcarthur>	12th
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:55:29] Join	contestbot has joined this channel (~contestbo@nat/uwaterloo/x-hcabvatvlhlkjxbs).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:55:29] <contestbot>	Top 10 players: albert(601), cheese_bot(461), zaphus(399), UloPee(353), inverselimit(312), mistabell(214), galcon(116), j3camero(72), seigen(19), Max(-25)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:55:34] <amstan>	!fdshf
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:55:38] <amstan>	!rankings 13
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:55:39] <contestbot>	Top 13 players: albert(601), cheese_bot(461), zaphus(399), UloPee(353), inverselimit(312), mistabell(214), galcon(116), j3camero(72), seigen(19), Max(-25), phreeza(-42), jmcarthur(-97), Mathnerd314(-159)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:55:45] <jmcarthur>	ah nice
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:55:51] <jmcarthur>	!rankings 100
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:55:52] <contestbot>	Top 100 players: albert(601), cheese_bot(461), zaphus(399), UloPee(353), inverselimit(312), mistabell(214), galcon(116), j3camero(72), seigen(19), Max(-25), phreeza(-42), jmcarthur(-97), Mathnerd314(-159), jdonland(-245), bswolf(-284), amstan(-411), rmotome(-414), jeff_cameron(-433), dtkatch(-438)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:55:59] <jmcarthur>	would it really try to show all 100?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:56:07] <Zaphus>	!rankings -1
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:56:08] <contestbot>	Top -1 players: albert(601), cheese_bot(461), zaphus(399), UloPee(353), inverselimit(312), mistabell(214), galcon(116), j3camero(72), seigen(19), Max(-25), phreeza(-42), jmcarthur(-97), Mathnerd314(-159), jdonland(-245), bswolf(-284), amstan(-411), rmotome(-414), jeff_cameron(-433)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:56:08] <amstan>	jmcarthur: it's rankings[:number]
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:56:28] <amstan>	Zaphus: that will do all except the last one
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:56:36] <jmcarthur>	what is this? ruby?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:56:39] <amstan>	python
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:56:43] <Mathnerd314>	!rankings -1000
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:56:44] <contestbot>	Top -1000 players:
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:57:02] <Mathnerd314>	!rankings 1.5
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:57:03] <Zaphus>	!rankings everyone except for jmcarthur   :-)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:57:09] <jmcarthur>	!rankings 1+1
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:57:16] <jmcarthur>	!rankings 1
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:57:16] <contestbot>	Top 1 players: albert(601)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:57:36] <amstan>	jmcarthur: it takes everything after ! or contestbot:, splits(" ")
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:57:39] <j3camero>	!rankings 7
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:57:39] <contestbot>	Top 7 players: albert(601), cheese_bot(461), zaphus(399), UloPee(353), inverselimit(312), mistabell(214), galcon(116)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:57:43] <JCS^>	you could create a !find command
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:57:45] <j3camero>	!rankings 99999
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:57:46] <contestbot>	Top 99999 players: albert(601), cheese_bot(461), zaphus(399), UloPee(353), inverselimit(312), mistabell(214), galcon(116), j3camero(72), seigen(19), Max(-25), phreeza(-42), jmcarthur(-97), Mathnerd314(-159), jdonland(-245), bswolf(-284), amstan(-411), rmotome(-414), jeff_cameron(-433), dtkatch(-438)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:57:52] <j3camero>	That's gonna get annoying.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:57:53] <jmcarthur>	i'm going to have a bot that accumulates a lot of losses now
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:57:58] <Mathnerd314>	!rankings "1"
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:58:24] <amstan>	Mathnerd314: that's like doing int("\"1\"")
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:58:30] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: did you see my fix above?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:58:34] <j3camero>	!rankings system("rm -rf /")
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:58:40] <amstan>	jmcarthur: i need a json interface for rankings
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:58:43] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: it can be with no changes to code
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:58:54] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: I did not see the change. What is it?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:58:56] <amstan>	jmcarthur: wp, j3camero: i need a json interface
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:58:59] <Mathnerd314>	j3camero: the server isn't vulnerable to SQL injection, right?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:59:00] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: ghc-pkg hide template-haskell
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:59:12] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: that needs to be run as root once for all time :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:59:27] <j3camero>	Mathnerd314: I don't think so. You can check the PHP code if you're curious. If oyu do find something let me know or submit a ticket.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:59:35] <dmj>	i imagine the !rankings command is using int to parse the string.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [22:59:47] <amstan>	dmj: it is
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:00:01] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: that's done. Try your sploit again to be sure.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:00:05] <jmcarthur>	k
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:00:40] <amstan>	dmj: one of my first python projects, was an irc bot called hyperwulf: http://pastebin.com/kXj5Ufd5
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:00:48] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: compile failure (correct behavior)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:00:54] <amstan>	i just took him apart, deleted useless stuff, and made it only parse rankings
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:01:04] <jmcarthur>	Sploit.hs:4:7:
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:01:06] <jmcarthur>	    Could not find module `Language.Haskell.TH':
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:01:08] <jmcarthur>	      it is a member of package template-haskell, which is hidden
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:01:10] <jmcarthur>	Failure: output file MyBot was not created
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:01:26] <amstan>	jmcarthur: you sure you can't import modules which are hidden?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:01:39] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: wicked. Send me your gmail so I can add you as a committer. Also, read this: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/wiki/HowToContribute. Really the only rule is don't commit any changes to trunk.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:01:48] <dmj>	amstan:  awesome.   My first hack up of someones bot was adding all sorts of responses to an emacs lisp bot.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:01:50] <jmcarthur>	amstan: i can't think of a way
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:02:10] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: Jake.McArthur@gmail.com
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:02:12] <jmcarthur>	reading
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:02:34] <dmj>	amstan:  one of which was a python script to create random sentences from the chat lot using Markov chains.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:02:55] <dmj>	s/lot/log/
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:03:07] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: you are a committer now.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:03:58] <j3camero>	General announcement: I am still looking for more people who want commit access to the code repository. If you are interested in maybe fixing some issues or adding new features, do let me know. I can add you right now.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:04:13] Topic	The channel topic is "Official Google AI Challenge | http://ai-contest.com/ | Report issues at http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/list | We have a new visualizer! http://tinyurl.com/planetvisualizer | Contest will start Friday September 10th.".
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:04:13] Topic	The topic was set by amstan on 2010-09-08 13:29.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:04:57] Topic	ChanServ sets the channel topic to "Official Google AI Challenge | http://ai-contest.com/ | Contest will start Friday September 10th. | Developers wanted, contact j3camero.".
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:05:03] <Mathnerd314>	j3camero: mathnerd314.gph@gmail.com, if you want to add me
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:05:05] <a1k0n>	hmm
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:05:19] <j3camero>	Thanks amstan. I assume that was you who changed the topic.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:05:24] <amstan>	j3camero: yep
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:05:24] <a1k0n>	i might as well sign up.  andy.sloane@gmail
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:05:49] <a1k0n>	the java stuff needs fixing and i aim to do it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:05:53] <amstan>	j3camero: a little more and this channel will get bigger than #csc
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:06:02] <amstan>	bring your bots ppl! lol
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:06:18] <j3camero>	Mathnerd314: you have been added. Please read and abide by this: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/wiki/HowToContribute. Never commit to trunk. Always use branches, as described.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:06:34] <Queue29>	do you guys have the ability to support D?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:06:36] <Mathnerd314>	j3camero: yes, I read it. thanks :-)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:06:46] Join	PurplePanda has joined this channel (~PurplePan@unaffiliated/purplepanda).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:06:53] <amstan>	@where+ commit Please read and abide by this: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/wiki/HowToContribute. Never commit to trunk. Always use branches, as described.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:06:53] <lambdabot>	I will remember.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:06:56] <amstan>	@what commit
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:06:57] <lambdabot>	Please read and abide by this: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/wiki/HowToContribute. Never commit to trunk. Always use branches, as described.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:07:03] <PurplePanda>	what version of python are we using?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:07:32] <amstan>	PurplePanda: 2.5 for now, if you want something better you have to give us instalation instructions for ubuntu server 8.04
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:07:35] <j3camero>	a1k0n: you have been added as a committer. Please read and abide by this: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/wiki/HowToContribute. Never commit to trunk. Instead, use branches for all changes, as described in the wiki article.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:07:46] <a1k0n>	j3camero: thanks much
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:08:16] <a1k0n>	is there a branch naming scheme we should use?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:08:25] <j3camero>	a1k0n you rule. Fixing stuff is awesome. Do they have 20% projects at Yahoo?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:08:28] <a1k0n>	e.g. issue72?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:08:38] <amstan>	a1k0n: that would be fine too
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:08:46] <a1k0n>	depends on the group.  not as a company-wide thing, but some managers are open to it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:09:00] <dmj>	j3camero:  not sure I will do much, and I have only been hanging around here an hour , but I did spend too much time on this last year :)  dmj111@gmail
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:09:11] <a1k0n>	i believe it's the same at google, where some managers just assign 120% of work
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:09:13] <j3camero>	a1k0n: it's up to you. I am easy. Naming after issues could actually be really descriptive. Alternatively, just use some descriptive name: branches/fixing_timeout_bug_in_java_visualizer.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:09:28] Quit	madsy has left this server (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:09:54] <amstan>	PurplePanda: people are already working on getting 2.6/2.7
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:10:18] <PurplePanda>	amstan, thanks. If someone gave you installation instructions for 3.0 you would use them? that would break my 2.5 code.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:10:32] <j3camero>	dmj: you have been added. Please read and abide by this wiki page: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/wiki/HowToContribute. Never commit to trunk. Use branches as described in the article.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:11:06] <amstan>	PurplePanda: depends on how easy it would be to run 2 versions at the same time(3, with the default 2.5 that comes with the system)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:11:10] <a1k0n>	j3camero: are you opening up beta accounts on the main site tonight?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:11:17] <amstan>	@where repository
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:11:17] <j3camero>	PurplePanda I would say we'll probably stick with 2.x
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:11:18] <lambdabot>	I know nothing about repository.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:11:34] <lambdabot>	help
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:11:40] <lambdabot>	@help
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:11:41] <j3camero>	a1k0n: sure, why not? Do you not have one yet?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:11:44] <a1k0n>	i do not
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:11:56] <a1k0n>	i was trying to avoid getting sucked in.  as you can see, that didn't work at all.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:11:59] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: months ago we discussed allowing binaries even if only on a case-by-case basis. is that still a possibility? i can't get a recent version of ghc to play nice with ubuntu 8.04 and i really feel the need to use a more recent version than the one on the server
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:12:02] <PurplePanda>	arf "probably" does not exactly fill me with confidence, but okay, I will write for 2.5 :-)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:12:39] <j3camero>	Okay a1k0n create an account.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:13:13] <a1k0n>	signup.php is a 404
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:13:22] <a1k0n>	oh heh
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:13:31] <PurplePanda>	I got that yesterday before I refreshed
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:13:40] <j3camero>	PurplePanda we will do our best. We are always open to suggestions. On this issue, I can see people having a serious reason to want 2.6 over 2.5, but I can't imagine someone truly needing 3.x. So I think we will stick with 2.x.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:14:00] <a1k0n>	j3camero: thx, done
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:14:15] <j3camero>	a1k0n: is there a broken link that points to signup.php?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:14:17] <a1k0n>	j3camero: FYI the login page points to signup.php whereas the 'sign up' link in the header points to register.php (which works)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:14:27] <j3camero>	Yikes. Fixing now.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:15:25] <dmj>	j3camero: thanks, and it is read.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:15:41] <Mathnerd314>	a1k0n: I'm worried that you'll win the contest again, and that all my careful programming will go to waste.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:15:44] <PurplePanda>	j3camero, for myself I don't mind at all which version. I'm just looking for someone to tell me what to write for, and a grantee that you won't break that by changing
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:16:44] <amstan>	PurplePanda: 2.5
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:16:58] <amstan>	PurplePanda: since 2.6/2.7 is backwards compatible
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:17:00] <j3camero>	PurplePanda: as usual, no guarantees :-) But I am telling you that I can't imagine any good reason why we would move to 3.x. Odds are you'll be okay.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:17:37] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: not to nag but... binaries?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:17:50] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: right. I am not ignoring you, haha.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:17:52] <j3camero>	just busy.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:17:57] <jmcarthur>	heh i understand
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:18:04] <j3camero>	I feel kind of sketch about accepting binaries.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:18:09] <jmcarthur>	just making sure i'm not lost in the flood of nick pings ;)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:18:13] <j3camero>	That being said, I can't see any reason not to, really.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:18:27] <a1k0n>	Mathnerd314: i'm worried people will expect me to do well in this contest
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:18:28] <jmcarthur>	yeah if you are allowing C you're allowing anything
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:18:43] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: exactly
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:18:56] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: you mentioned before that you feared bandwidth issues though
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:19:07] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: i could try to come up with a way to address that if it would make you feel better
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:19:24] <jmcarthur>	but first i should just do some math anyway to see if it really could be an issue
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:19:38] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: do you think a typical binary will be under 2 MB?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:19:42] <a1k0n>	jmcarthur: how did your exploit experiment go?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:19:50] <j3camero>	a1k0n: it worked!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:19:52] <jmcarthur>	a1k0n: i succeeded and we patched it :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:19:55] <a1k0n>	j3camero: if it's stripped it will almost always be under 2MB
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:19:58] <dmj>	a1k0n:  the price of fame :( On a serious note, your post mortem was really well done.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:20:03] <a1k0n>	awesome.  what was it?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:20:14] <a1k0n>	dmj: thanks!  glad you enjoyed it.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:20:28] <mightybyte>	Has a decision been made on the official battle resolution algorithm?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:20:32] <a1k0n>	i guess i need to write the story about how the contest/my post mortem changed my life
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:20:32] <j3camero>	He found a way to execute arbitrary Haskell at compile-time.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:20:45] <a1k0n>	ooh, hahah
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:20:46] <dmj>	its sitting next to me while I plan this contest.  bwa hah ha ha.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:21:00] <Mathnerd314>	a1k0n: yes, write it to inspire me to do better than you :p
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:21:04] <a1k0n>	dmj: my post mortem is?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:21:15] <j3camero>	mightybyte: I don't think anything official has happened. You could decide if you want.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:21:38] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: i don't know what kind of bandwidth we expect the server to have to deal with. what is expected and what is "bad"?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:21:57] <mightybyte>	I kind of like the two-attacking-fleets-take-each-other-out-before-attacking-the-planet approach.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:21:59] <dmj>	a1kon:  sorry, my sense of tiredness overcame my sense of humor.  But yeah, I was thinking about the stuff you did to really optimize your algorithm.  The tools and stuff.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:21:59] <Zaphus>	j3camero:  Accepting binaries means no way for you to see what it is doing, accepting code means you (or someone not competing) could check to make sure it appears safe
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:22:06] <j3camero>	mightybyte: do you want to have commit access to the code repo, just in case the urge to fix issues or make new features strikes?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:22:10] <mightybyte>	...but it doesn't scale very well to more than two players.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:22:34] <dmj>	a1kon:  last time, I kept thinking of a bunch of tools that would have made testing a lot easier, but I kept saying "not enough time to do that stuff...."
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:22:51] <mightybyte>	j3camero: Nah, I'm short on time.  I have enough on my plate just trying to make an entry of my own.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:22:58] <jmcarthur>	Zaphus: if it does something malicious it could just cover its tracks before anybody suspects anyway
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:23:01] <j3camero>	mightybyte: cool dawg
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:23:06] <jmcarthur>	Zaphus: binary or not
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:23:14] <a1k0n>	ah, yeah.  my "tools" were extremely crude but they got me the game analysis data i needed
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:23:15] <Zannick>	j3camero: i'll take commit access
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:23:24] <Zannick>	i'm jokeserver
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:23:30] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: yeah. To tell you the truth, I have actually never looked at a contestants' code before.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:23:43] <a1k0n>	not having a frame-by-frame ascii dump in the log of the game is going to make it harder this time
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:23:47] <j3camero>	Zannick: alright. Waht's your @gmail address?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:24:25] <Zannick>	j3camero: jokeserver@
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:24:29] <j3camero>	a1k0n: the PlayGame.jar outputs such a log I believe.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:24:35] <dmj>	a1k0n:  that new visualizer is super nice.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:24:53] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: my bot from the tron contest stripped and zipped weighs in at 516K
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:25:09] <a1k0n>	dmj: yeah it's really excellent.  i just need a way to stitch visualization together with my debug output
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:25:09] <Queue29>	j3camero, can you tell if the commands I have posted here: http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=423#p2579  work on Ubuntu 8.04 ?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:25:14] <Zaphus>	jmcarthur:  True, but binaries are just asking for it :-)   anyway I'm being selfish, I cant make binaries for it because I'm working in Windows :-)    - if you are going to allow binaries, then allow makefiles to be uploaded too so we can turn on optimisations
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:25:37] <jmcarthur>	Zaphus: but that is actually more dangerous because the compilation is not sandboxed
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:25:37] <a1k0n>	j3camero: yeah, it's suitable for viz but it only outputs after the entire game is processed
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:25:42] <j3camero>	Zannick: you have commit access. Please read this: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/wiki/HowToContribute. Never commit to trunk. Always use a branch for every change as described in the article. I am really glad to have you on board!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:25:46] <jmcarthur>	Zaphus: that was the core of my exploit earlier
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:25:48] <dmj>	a1k0n:  I see.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:25:59] <dmj>	Later
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:26:11] <a1k0n>	cya
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:27:34] <j3camero>	a1k0n: it doesn't need to be that way. You could patch the client-side engine to output as the game goes on.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:27:47] <Zaphus>	jmcarthur:  Ok, the sandboxing does make a difference.   Still feel like theres no way for anyone to even try and check if a bot is attempting to cheat when it is a .exe, at least you *could* look at code if required, even if you couldnt figure it out
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:28:03] <j3camero>	a1k0n: it would be such an easy patch. Just replace gamePlayback += with System.out.println(
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:28:05] <Zaphus>	then again, obfuscurate the code...  same problem I guess
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:28:07] <a1k0n>	j3camero: i was just thinking of doing that
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:28:28] <a1k0n>	j3camero: i have a patch to replace gamePlayback += with gamePlayback.append and make it a stringbuffer, because the += is *really slow* on a long game
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:28:42] <a1k0n>	but yeah it might as well just go to stdout immediately
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:28:43] <Zannick>	j3camero: great, thanks
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:29:18] <Zannick>	i'm going to commit a couple of my patches that have been sitting in the issues list for a few days
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:29:26] <j3camero>	a1k0n: jsut remember to System.out.flush() after every call so the game doesn't hang.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:29:54] <a1k0n>	the game won't hang if it isn't flushed; it's not flushed now.  but still, yes
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:29:56] <j3camero>	Zannick: awesome. That's what I was hoping would start to happen. I have been trying to get to them.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:30:24] <j3camero>	a1k0n: I suspect you're right. Still, I have learned from experience to just always flush.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:30:27] <Zannick>	obv you'll still have to review them :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:30:28] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: my zipped binary is half the size of the zipped java starter pack! ;)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:30:29] <Zaphus>	j3camero:  Any sign of the updated scheduler being rolled out to the live server ?   (although the 30 minute figure seems too small for me, I'd have thought a few hours given how slow the games are)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:31:01] <a1k0n>	iirc they're using an 8-core server and running up to 4 games in parallel
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:31:06] <jmcarthur>	less than, even
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:31:14] <j3camero>	Zannick: yep. In practice, you will probably enentually become a "reviewer" who can merge to trunk.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:31:40] <a1k0n>	it'd be really cool if you could see which games are being played live
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:31:41] Quit	dmj has left this server (Quit: Page closed).
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:31:49] <a1k0n>	like a constant tournament stream
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:32:09] <Mathnerd314>	rss feed? :p
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:32:20] <a1k0n>	that would't be too hard
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:32:49] <j3camero>	Zaphus: yes I will roll out the updated scheduler asap. I still need to try out the patch. I will do it though. It's a must-have for Friday.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:33:21] <a1k0n>	Zaphus: did you do anything beyond removing the unnecessary sleep?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:33:27] <j3camero>	Zaphus: I will take care of it, since it needs to be tested on the live server (shitty, I know. My poor design. But we're stuck with it ATM)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:33:29] <Zaphus>	it would be good to get 24hrs of testing on it.    is it worth letting some of us create a second account  (TESTzaphus) to add more bots for load/schedule testing ?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:33:32] <Mathnerd314>	a1k0n: that + PubSubHubbub
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:34:02] <Zaphus>	a1k0n:  wrong person, I didnt do the code - just admired it :-)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:34:10] <j3camero>	Zaphus: nah, I have a script that can create hundreds of bots and submit thousands of bots that all behave differently.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:34:14] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: i'll just make a ticket instead of continuously hassling you about it
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:34:23] <a1k0n>	can we mark issue 73 a dupe of 72?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:34:42] <mightybyte>	Looks like they are probably the same.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:35:10] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: good idea. I am not sure about the wisdom of allowing binaries. There are arguments on both sides of that one. It feels scary. Let's decide it in a few days.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:35:24] <a1k0n>	my bot isn't getting any games yet :(
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:35:26] <j3camero>	a1k0n let me check out the 72/73 thing
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:35:39] <j3camero>	a1k0n: it's because of the shitty scheduler. My bad.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:35:55] <a1k0n>	ahh, issue 68
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:36:23] <Zaphus>	Anyone feel like writing a twitter app, to tweet the top 10 every hour or something like that ?   or better, one that you link yourself and your bot to so it tweets you when you play a game ?  :-)
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:36:53] <j3camero>	Can someone send an email to jeff@ai-contest.com just so I can see if the forwarding works right?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:37:00] <a1k0n>	sure
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:38:05] <a1k0n>	man you totally should have open sourced it last time
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:38:20] <a1k0n>	by the third contest you should have the most awesome live contest match scheduler ever
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:38:24] <j3camero>	a1k0n: i know. but I didn't expect 2500 people to compete, haha.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:39:03] <a1k0n>	heh!
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:39:04] <a1k0n>	i'm trying to recruit some coworkers
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:39:04] <j3camero>	a1k0n: it's a miracle the servers did not crumble. It was only meant for like 200 people.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:39:04] <a1k0n>	the antispam team i'm in now has some really awesome machine learning people
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:39:11] <j3camero>	a1k0n I am not sure if 72/73 are dupes. We shall see once we get to those.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:39:38] <j3camero>	a1k0n: if you can recruit some of them to help out with the contest itself, that would be so cool. I have a feeling we're gonna need manpower.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:39:41] <a1k0n>	i am able to verify on, e.g., map 7 if you send 13 ships to the open 12-ship neutrals, your fleets just disappear on arrival
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:39:49] <mightybyte>	j3camero: I think those two issues should be pretty high on the priority list.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:40:00] <j3camero>	mightybyte: agreed.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:40:05] <a1k0n>	i don't know if the python engine has the same problem or not
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:40:07] <Zaphus>	j3camero:  Question, for the preliminaries (i.e. not the finals) are the maps the same ones as given in the startup pack ?   if so, can we get the mapnum displayed in the match history.   If not... is there any way to let us get the map definition so we can try at home with the same map that we suck on ?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:40:32] <a1k0n>	j3camero: but i think the battle resolution code could use a rewrite as it's very buggy and much more complicated than it needs to be
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:40:53] <mightybyte>	There's a patch for that too.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:41:07] <a1k0n>	there is?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:41:29] <mightybyte>	http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/detail?id=64
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:41:33] <Zaphus>	I suggest locking this competition down to 2 players, go with the nice 2-player resolution code.   If 3-4 players are to be done later then new resolution code can be figured out at that point
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:41:47] <a1k0n>	oh hell yes
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:41:53] <a1k0n>	that will probably fix 72&73
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:42:12] <mightybyte>	I think the patch in 64 is arguably the best way to do it.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:42:18] <jmcarthur>	alright, issue 75 is about binary submissions
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:42:32] <mightybyte>	It supports more than two players trivially, and it also is extremely simple.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:43:10] <jmcarthur>	is that the one that implements my proposed algorithm
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:43:11] <jmcarthur>	?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:43:18] <a1k0n>	i also think dhartmei's code works similarly
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:43:21] <mightybyte>	Yeah, I think so.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:43:58] <a1k0n>	jmcarthur: i dunno, does your proposed algorithm match what it says in the link?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:44:17] <Zaphus>	for 3 players,  #64 is effectively a mexican standoff where they all shoot at the same time ?   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_standoff
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:44:39] <jmcarthur>	ah looks like it was submitted by somebody who agreed with my proposal, so i imagine it is mine
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:45:15] <j3camero>	a1k0n: I like the idea of fixing the battle resolution code. It is kind of horrible.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:45:18] <jmcarthur>	Zaphus: looks like a mexican standoff normally doesn't end in a tie :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:46:00] <Zaphus>	jmcarthur:  true, I'm just imagining them all firing at once.   A shoots B, B shoots C, C shoots A    thats how you get the tie
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:46:07] <a1k0n>	hmm, my bot loses against albert on the official server, and it looks like it's due to the growth-before vs growth-after battles
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:46:24] <j3camero>	Zaphus: isn't the entire map definition contained in the game playback string?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:46:57] <Zaphus>	j3camero:  Yes, it is - but we dont get the playback strings from the official server.  I want to test on the same map that XXX crushed me
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:47:42] <a1k0n>	Zaphus: http://ai-contest.com/game_info.php?game_id=<x>
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:47:44] <j3camero>	Oh man, there is a way to get the playback strings. I dunno if I should popularize it though, otherwise people are going to crawl every game_id sequentially.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:47:50] <j3camero>	Fuuuuuu....
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:47:58] <a1k0n>	j3camero: well that is what i did last contest..
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:48:07] <a1k0n>	but not sequentually, i scraped the top-100 players
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:48:17] <j3camero>	a1k0n: yeah no biggie: I will keep an eye on the bandwidth and buy more if necessary.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:48:22] <Mathnerd314>	j3camero: just be nice and provide a compressed copy of all the games :p
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:48:34] <j3camero>	Mathnerd314: good idea.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:48:48] <j3camero>	Mathnerd314: maybe daily data files?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:48:54] <Mathnerd314>	yeah, sounds good
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:48:58] <a1k0n>	argh the java applet gets into a mode in my browser where it stops loading any new games
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:49:14] <a1k0n>	a data feed like that would be most excellent.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:49:37] <a1k0n>	especially since a statistical analysis might be necessary play well
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:49:48] <j3camero>	a1k0n for sure
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:50:04] <j3camero>	checking bandwidth usage...
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:50:22] <j3camero>	If we go over 5 TB on the month we're fucked. And by fucked I mean I would have to pay them more money.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:50:40] <a1k0n>	can you put google ads up?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:50:48] <Zaphus>	can you include the map itself in the normal map format ?   the playback string is in a different format to the map files
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:51:03] <a1k0n>	Zaphus: chop off everything in front of the |
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:51:07] <a1k0n>	oh that is different nm
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:51:48] <jmcarthur>	yeah i think perhaps if we simply encourage people to use torrents of the game logs then the bandwidth wouldn't be a big deal :)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:51:54] <a1k0n>	but the format is similar; grab everything up to the |, then split lines at : and turn , into space and prepend a P to each line
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:52:23] <jmcarthur>	like, just put up a new one each week or so
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:52:27] <Mathnerd314>	j3camero: jmcarthur's idea seems awesome :p
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:52:29] <a1k0n>	good idea.  just put a torrent tracker up and only post .torrents
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:53:55] <a1k0n>	issue 64 is a dupe of 23
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:54:26] <j3camero>	jmcarthur: yep I'm pretty sure I will have to post regular datafiles.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:54:46] <Mathnerd314>	a1k0n: no. 23 is about tournament, 64 is about game.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:54:58] <jmcarthur>	j3camero: especially after a1k0n blogged about data mining after winning the last one! :P
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:55:10] <a1k0n>	oops i mean 68
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:55:28] <contestbot>	Top 10 players: albert(522), cheese_bot(484), a1k0n_(369), UloPee(338), zaphus(307), inverselimit(192), mistabell(178), galcon(118), j3camero(-7), Max(-16)
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:56:22] <Mathnerd314>	a1k0n: if you are a committer for the project, you should be able to resolve those as duplicates
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:56:36] <Mathnerd314>	but will j3camero let you resolve them as duplicates?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:56:39] <a1k0n>	i can't seem to do anything on the issue tracker
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[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:57:27] <j3camero>	a1k0n: oh damn. I think you should be able to resolve issues. Is there a way for me to enable you on the issue tracker?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:57:43] <a1k0n>	maybe?  i have no idea
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:57:56] <j3camero>	haha I missed a decimal point and thought we used 3 TB of bandwidth today. Fuck me I almost lost it. That would have cost a lot of money.
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:58:09] <Mathnerd314>	a1k0n: go to issue, click in textbox "add or make changes", do you get issue fields to edit?
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:58:18] <Zannick>	a1k0n: click "add a comment and make changes"
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:58:35] <a1k0n>	oh hah duh
[Wednesday 08 September 2010] [23:58:39] <a1k0n>	yep, thanks
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:00:32] <j3camero>	Sweet.
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:00:46] <j3camero>	Nice a1k0n. I am so glad to have you helping out, even if just a little bit.
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:01:03] <Mathnerd314>	j3camero: you could have a bandwidth usage meter
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:01:12] <a1k0n>	cool.  though you have some much better contributors already.
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:01:23] <j3camero>	Okay, so according to my math, we can have 20M pageviews per month and not get fucked on bandwidth. This is good news. If we get 20M pageviews, I would gladly pay for more bandwidth.
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:01:41] <a1k0n>	if you get 20M pageviews, google ads will pay for more bandwidth
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:01:54] <j3camero>	This is true. Do you think people would hate me for using google ads?
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:02:11] <j3camero>	Well whatever. We will consider ads later. For now I am not worrying about it.
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:02:23] <a1k0n>	on the google ai challenge?  i wouldn't mind if the bandwidth were an issue
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:02:36] <a1k0n>	fair enough
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:02:45] <a1k0n>	i badly want a rematch against albert on the official server
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:02:48] <Mathnerd314>	j3camero: channel is getting large enough that you might consider publicly logging it
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:03:31] <Mathnerd314>	amstan already has a bot, so you just need to put up logs somewhere
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[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:04:11] <amstan>	Mathnerd314: i'm mostly the channel admin guy
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:04:14] <amstan>	Mathnerd314: logging? why?
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:05:29] <Mathnerd314>	so people can see what happened while they were gone. not everyone has a server they can keep running all day.
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:05:45] <jmcarthur>	and even those who do lose power sometimes *ahem*
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[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:06:43] <j3camero>	Haha who else is running irssi in a screen session on taurine right now? Say whaaaa.
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:06:51] <amstan>	j3camero: not me
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:07:00] <amstan>	Mathnerd314: ok, will consider
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:07:15] <amstan>	Mathnerd314: sometimes in the next week..
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:07:23] <Mathnerd314>	amstan: should I make an issue in the tracker to remind you?
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:07:31] <jmcarthur>	weechat in a tmux session on my htpc, here
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:07:43] <amstan>	Mathnerd314: that's fine, i'm constantly reminded when i use the bot
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:07:52] <Mathnerd314>	amstan: or add it to the bot feature request list on the forum?
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:08:01] <amstan>	Mathnerd314: sure
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[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:08:28] <jmcarthur>	> 20e6*30
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:08:29] <lambdabot>	  6.0e8
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:09:01] <jmcarthur>	oh that was per month
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:09:09] <jmcarthur>	i was about to say that's an *insane* number of page views
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:09:26] <Zannick>	well
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:09:30] <jmcarthur>	it still is
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:09:33] <Zannick>	i think something is wrong with my java compiler
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:09:34] <jmcarthur>	but not *that* insane
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:09:36] <Zannick>	how. lovely
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:09:41] <jmcarthur>	rock
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:09:55] <amstan>	Mathnerd314: i was thinking to make a bot based on http://sourceforge.net/projects/supybot/
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:09:58] <jmcarthur>	@faq Can Haskell compile better than Java?
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:09:58] <lambdabot>	The answer is: Yes! Haskell can do that.
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:10:06] <Zannick>	it is complaining about things that are "only available if source level is 5.0"
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:10:18] <jmcarthur>	"source level"? what's that?
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:10:23] <Zannick>	as in, java 5.0
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:10:25] <jmcarthur>	ah
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:10:34] <Zannick>	as in, things that have been out for what, 7 years?
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:10:47] <Mathnerd314>	amstan: never tried setting up a bot, so whatever you think of.
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:11:03] <amstan>	Mathnerd314: same software #ubuntu uses for their bot
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:11:09] <amstan>	i think it also does logging
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:11:33] <lambdabot>	i can't log, unfortunately :(
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:11:48] <amstan>	lambdabot: you sure? you have a log module
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:11:57] <amstan>	lambdabot: also.. who's your master?
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:12:23] <lambdabot>	i shall never say
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:12:33] <amstan>	lambdabot: you should.. i'm op
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:12:39] <Mathnerd314>	amstan: AFAIK jmcarthur is
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[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:12:52] <amstan>	apparently he's not
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:12:52] <jmcarthur>	well, i'm the one making lambdabot talk, but i'm not lambdabot's master
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:12:57] <j3camero>	Okay going to bed. Believe it or not, I have averted many crises today, despite the fact that I fixed zero issues.
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:13:11] <mightybyte>	j3camero: I've got a fix for you.
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:13:13] <amstan>	j3camero: lol
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:13:30] <jmcarthur>	i merely have the authority to make lambdabot do a few things that most people can't. i do not actually run the bot
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:13:31] <amstan>	j3camero: you think we can still launch tomorrow?
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:13:44] <amstan>	jmcarthur: ok.. well.. i just want to know who it is
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:14:01] <amstan>	not that i want it off, especially if ppl use it
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:14:19] <j3camero>	mightybyte: oh if you've got a code review I will do it before bed so you're not blocked.
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:14:51] <mightybyte>	Give me one second to upload a patch.
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:14:56] <a1k0n>	amstan: tomorrow is thursday
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:15:07] <a1k0n>	or are you launching midnight GMT?
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:15:08] <amstan>	a1k0n: darn
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:15:10] <mightybyte>	j3camero: http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/mightybyte/two.patch
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:15:32] <mightybyte>	That patch merges the patches contained in issues 64 and 69
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:15:37] <amstan>	a1k0n: i tought it was still yesterday
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:15:50] <mightybyte>	And I just verified that it fixes issues 73
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:15:52] <j3camero>	mightybyte: can you put the patch into an issue so that I find it tomorrow? I pretty much have to fix all the urgent issues tomorrow no matter what.
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:16:10] <a1k0n>	that's a roll-up of patches already attached to issues
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:16:16] <mightybyte>	Yeah, I can do that.
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:16:27] <a1k0n>	i can commit them all to a branch if you like
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:16:34] <mightybyte>	a1k0n: Yes, but those patches conflicted, so I had to resolve them manually.
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:16:42] <a1k0n>	ahh
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:16:42] <j3camero>	Going to bed now. Thanks so much for the help! If anyone finds other people who want to be committers, email me jeff@ai-contest.com.
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:16:56] <mightybyte>	a1k0n: Can you just commit the patch now so I don't have to file another issue?
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:16:59] <tapwater>	who is running example bot?
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:17:02] <tapwater>	example bot needs to die
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:17:11] <tapwater>	it needs to die with fire
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:17:12] <mightybyte>	a1k0n: Or should i still file the roll-up issue with the patch?
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:17:14] <a1k0n>	i can't commit to trunk but i can make a branch to resolve those issues
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:17:23] <Mathnerd314>	tapwater: blame sleeping dhartmei
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:17:27] <j3camero>	a1k0n: if you feel up to it, you could create a branch with a bunch of fixes in it, and we can review it tomorrow. I can maybe even sneak in a review in the morning while I am at work so you're not blocked.
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:17:40] <a1k0n>	ok.  i'll do that, and the issue tracking admin stuff
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:18:10] <mightybyte>	a1k0n: Ok.  You're getting my patch from the above link, or do you want me to do something else with it?
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:18:17] <j3camero>	Nice a1k0n. You da man. So much for not getting sucked in.
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:18:27] <a1k0n>	from your resolved patch link.  thanks.
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:18:45] <mightybyte>	Ok, good.
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:20:34] <Zannick>	oh well, screw this
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:20:38] <Zannick>	i'll just stay away from java
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[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:24:16] <jmcarthur>	good idea
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:24:24] <jmcarthur>	:)
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:34:29] <a1k0n>	svn: Server sent unexpected return value (500 Internal Server Error) in response to MKACTIVITY request for '/svn/!svn/act/0f56290e-467a-4f71-a480-3b6203e77e10'
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:34:36] <a1k0n>	well that's a good sign
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:36:36] <antimatroid1>	have we got a neutral planet conflict decision yet?
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:37:03] <a1k0n>	antimatroid1: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/detail?id=64
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:37:32] <antimatroid1>	thanks
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:37:39] <a1k0n>	jklandis took ownership and submitted a patch so i think it's likely that's what will be resolved
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:38:05] <a1k0n>	a non-buggy, consistent implementation of any kind beats the buggy one now
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[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:39:57] <Mathnerd314>	hmm, I think it should be A - B - C.
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:40:03] <Zannick>	http://www.ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=4414815
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:40:28] <Zannick>	this is the most hilarious game i have seen yet.
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:40:44] <jmcarthur>	lol
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:40:52] <jmcarthur>	that is awesome
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:41:08] <a1k0n>	hahahah
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:41:14] <antimatroid1>	yep, i don't really mind which way it goes, provided it works and is fair :P
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:45:03] <Mathnerd314>	like, say A sends 10000 ships, B sends 9999 ships,C (neutral) has 2 ships.
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:45:19] Join	Utkarsh has joined this channel (~admin@117.201.81.198).
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:45:40] <Mathnerd314>	IMO, C is neutral, so it doesn't get attacked until A and B fight it out
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:46:00] <a1k0n>	yeah, in fact as written that isn't right
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:46:35] <antimatroid1>	wait. what happens if (20,10) arrives on a neutral planet with 20 ships?
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:47:02] <antimatroid1>	i think that's unfair
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:47:16] <antimatroid1>	if it's causing player 1 and player 2 to both lose all their ships
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:47:19] <a1k0n>	yeah that patch is wrong
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:47:40] <a1k0n>	as written it treats the defense as just another 'fleet'
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:47:57] <a1k0n>	so a neutral with 20 attacked by 20 and 10 simultaneously means there's a tie for the two 20 fleets and the 10 gets it
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:48:06] <antimatroid1>	no
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:48:10] <Zannick>	no, that patch means no one gets it
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:48:10] <a1k0n>	or actually the 10 just doesn't get anything
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:48:13] <antimatroid1>	i would say player 2 ends up with the planet
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:48:15] <antimatroid1>	in a fair game
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:48:24] <antimatroid1>	player 1**
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:48:38] <a1k0n>	luckily i can't create an svn branch
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[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:48:50] <amstan>	contestbot will be down for a while
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:48:54] <antimatroid1>	hmmm, now i'm not sure what the best way is to run the 3 way battle
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:49:05] <antimatroid1>	amstan: did you just read the above?
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:49:34] <amstan>	antimatroid1: i am not sure, i saw a suggestion of fighting red and blue before fighting with neutral
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:50:57] <antimatroid1>	i think that pairing off half ships to battle thing might be best
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:51:01] <antimatroid1>	are there any problem cases for that?
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:51:06] <a1k0n>	i think fairest would be to repeatedly eliminate the smallest fleet with the next-smallest
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:51:09] <antimatroid1>	my one had an issue in the end
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:51:50] <a1k0n>	with ties going to attackers instead of defenders
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:52:12] <a1k0n>	(meaning attackers get eliminated first)
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:52:29] <tapwater>	a1k0n: good match http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284007587|a1k0n|cheese_bot
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:52:46] <a1k0n>	is cheese_bot yours?  it's good
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:52:56] <tapwater>	thanks :)
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:53:14] <tapwater>	still can't beat yours more than half the time
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:53:50] <antimatroid1>	tapwater: a1k0n won last time, I wouldn't take that as much of a bummer
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:54:20] <tapwater>	antimatroid1: I don't see it as a bummer, I see it as a goal :)
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:54:45] <a1k0n>	it shouldn't be that hard to beat this bot
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:55:14] <a1k0n>	(not trying to be a smug asshole or anything, it's pretty lucky it works at all)
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:55:28] <tapwater>	haha no offense taken
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:55:35] <tapwater>	the real fun part is incrementally improving your own bot
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:55:41] <a1k0n>	yeah
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:55:45] <tapwater>	and watching it get better and better
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:56:00] <a1k0n>	yeah it's way more fun when you have a lot of competitors to judge it against
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:56:20] <tapwater>	yup
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:56:35] <a1k0n>	i'm basically astonished mine is doing so well
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:56:39] <tapwater>	if it wasn't for the unofficial tcp server, my bot would suck even harder
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:56:51] <a1k0n>	yeah, i probably wouldn't have won last time without it
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:56:57] <tapwater>	instant feedback is too good
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:57:53] <tapwater>	lol http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284008112|cheese_bot|ademar
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:57:59] <jmcarthur>	Mathnerd314: here are a few properties about three ways to evaluate three-way battles: http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=419&start=0#p2419
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:57:59] <tapwater>	the cheese bot just got cheesed
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [00:58:33] <jmcarthur>	antimatroid1, a1k0n ^^
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[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:00:25] <a1k0n>	yeah, what jkl implemented doesn't match any of those from what i can tell
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:00:43] <Mathnerd314>	a1k0n: I think it's proposal (3)
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[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:00:55] <jmcarthur>	a1k0n: he at least intended to do the third i think
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:01:22] <antimatroid1>	jmcarthur: with the third option, what about when (20,10) arrives at a neutral planet with 20 ships?
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:01:28] <Mathnerd314>	maybe we can resolve this with a friendly game of Galcon
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:01:37] <a1k0n>	for a player to take a planet, doesn't the sum of its fleets need to be greater than the sum of all other arriving fleets and the defending fleet?
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:01:45] <jmcarthur>	antimatroid1: that would be all three sides die
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:01:53] <antimatroid1>	i don't like that
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:02:41] <antimatroid1>	i think expansion should perhaps be encouraged? so I would put my vote in for players ships fighting neutral then each other
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:03:18] <jmcarthur>	the first option would have neutral left with 10. the second would have a player left with 5.
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[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:03:55] <seigen-web>	anyone still up in here?
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:03:56] <a1k0n>	5?
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:03:57] <antimatroid1>	my vote is with option 2
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:04:00] <seigen-web>	a1k0n
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:04:06] <seigen-web>	my nemesis!
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:04:06] <antimatroid1>	can anyone come up with any problem cases for that?
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:04:20] <jmcarthur>	for one, option 2 is the most difficult to reason about
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[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:04:32] <tapwater>	I prefer option 1
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:04:33] <a1k0n>	wouldn't the second option have 10 left?
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:04:38] <a1k0n>	seigen-web: hoho
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:04:48] <tapwater>	I don't see how it will discourage expansion
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:04:50] <jmcarthur>	in fact, i am certain i got one of the properties about option 2 wrong in that post
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:05:06] <jmcarthur>	tapwater: because neutral will be very powerful in a 3-way
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:05:07] <seigen-web>	a1k0n: actually, it's been nice, as i completely rewrite my jenks
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:05:14] <seigen-web>	a1k0n: to have a good benchmark
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:05:26] <a1k0n>	wow gheesebot takes the lead on the official server
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:05:29] <a1k0n>	s/g/c/
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:05:43] <a1k0n>	seigen-web: i'm still astounded mine's doing so well
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:05:45] <jmcarthur>	a1k0n: let's see... if both players team up on neutral first, then neutral will take 10 from each of them. yeah, you're right
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:05:45] <antimatroid1>	i think there was a problem with my old reasoning for option 2
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:05:58] <seigen-web>	a1k0n: pretty basic?
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:06:04] <tapwater>	jmcarthur: should we worry about 3 ways?
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:06:05] <a1k0n>	it's stupid simple
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:06:21] <jmcarthur>	tapwater: yeah. i'd say how that case is handled is pretty important
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:06:30] <a1k0n>	no prediction at all, just basic accounting
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:06:45] <tapwater>	for the contest, I think we should focus on 1v1
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[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:06:58] <jmcarthur>	tapwater: i agree, but neutral adds a third force to fight
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:06:59] <tapwater>	and not pre-optimize for more than that
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:07:13] <jmcarthur>	every planet starts with neutral ships on it
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:07:19] <antimatroid1>	no
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:07:22] <antimatroid1>	you own one
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:07:24] <jmcarthur>	except for home
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[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:07:41] <antimatroid1>	i'm curious as to whether the number of starting home planets is fixed at one, so far I've just been told not to count on it
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:08:03] <seigen-web>	a1k0n: yeah.  I got prematurely fancy and tried to keep my fleet centralized
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:08:04] <jmcarthur>	i am just playing the "don't count on it" game. i don't think it will drastically effect my strategy
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:08:23] <jmcarthur>	unlike number of turns...
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:08:26] <a1k0n>	i threw together the simplest thing that could possibly work last night
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:08:26] <seigen-web>	i.e., weighted targets by their distance to the centroid of my fleet.  But, i don't play defence
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:08:38] <a1k0n>	added two lines of code today that seemed to improve it, that's it
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:08:57] <seigen-web>	yeah.
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:09:04] <a1k0n>	yeah, i'm sure there are some improvements to target selection that could be done
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:09:10] <a1k0n>	i just grab for growth
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:09:32] <seigen-web>	i'm still pretty much doing the same simple thing that i was doing, but i rewrote it to do a few more things at once.
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:11:29] <antimatroid1>	a1k0n: you still beat everyone else at a mock up bot :P
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:12:03] <antimatroid1>	of course, none of the current bots will/would be anywhere near the top in a week or two once people have had time to put a bit more oomph into the strategy side
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[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:13:20] <antimatroid1>	i wish we had 3 seconds set up, but oh well
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:13:27] <antimatroid1>	i think that's really going to hurt the non c++ competitors
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:14:25] <jmcarthur>	there's a tradeoff between speed and expressiveness that i like having around
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:14:42] <jmcarthur>	and the tradeoff isn't as bad as it may lead some to think, anyway
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:16:24] <antimatroid1>	hmmmm, resolve this case for me
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:16:25] <antimatroid1>	(6,3) arriving at neutral with 7 ships
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:16:35] <antimatroid1>	or think about it anyway
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:17:09] <a1k0n>	i think fighting each other first is easiest to resolve and fair and the bias isn't that bad
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:17:19] <a1k0n>	so neutral wins with 4 ships
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:18:17] <antimatroid1>	i think i'd have to agree, but only because of the ease of resolving it
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:18:39] <antimatroid1>	i think it's more likely to lead to deadlocks
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:18:54] <antimatroid1>	which is no fun
[Thursday 09 September 2010] [01:20:34] 	 * AlliedEnvy wonders what the rule is in galcon
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