2010-09-10T00:00:18 java is crashing my browser 2010-09-10T00:01:04 i've never had such a terrible experience with java applets before 2010-09-10T00:01:53 jmcarthur: For the 3-way battle algorithm, the repeated subtraction and elimination of the smaller fleet is equivalent to just grabbing the biggest two, and calculating results from there, right? 2010-09-10T00:02:02 any eta on opening registration yet? 2010-09-10T00:02:28 oh yeah, http://a1k0n.net/temp/PlayGame.jar and http://a1k0n.net/temp/ShowGame.jar 2010-09-10T00:02:34 ^ fixed and optimized 2010-09-10T00:03:40 phreeza: are you A/B testing your bots? haha 2010-09-10T00:03:42 a1k0n: what fixes on ShowGame.jar? 2010-09-10T00:03:46 bss03: with the one interesting fact that if the top top are tied then the result is 0 but belongs to neutral 2010-09-10T00:03:52 *if the top two 2010-09-10T00:03:57 a1k0n what is up with review 77? Is it still valid? 2010-09-10T00:04:41 hah, yeah, it is. sorry for the confusion 2010-09-10T00:05:00 review it as the diff between rev 220 and 229 2010-09-10T00:05:15 i submitted a review and subsequently fixed some bugs 2010-09-10T00:05:45 j3camero: which branch making changes to battle resolution did you merge? 2010-09-10T00:06:10 afaik that branch is the only one which actually fixes these issues 2010-09-10T00:06:20 unless you merged individual patches from the issue list 2010-09-10T00:06:56 jmcarthur: Ownership does change in a tie, right? I'm thinking of 3-way battle between players. X owns the planet but loses, Y and Z tie for winner. 2010-09-10T00:07:18 jmcarthur: In that case, planter remains property of X, right. It doesn't revert to Neutral, right? 2010-09-10T00:07:31 s/does/doesn't/ Blah! 2010-09-10T00:07:36 j3camero: look VV 2010-09-10T00:07:40 a1k0n: great fixes for Playgame - super fast now !!! and seems less buggy 2010-09-10T00:07:45 contestbot: game 4415956 2010-09-10T00:07:46 amstan: i02agsij vs cheese_bot: game played at 2010-09-09 20:16:29, on map 748, 123513 beat 123527. http://ai-contest.com/visualizer_canvas.php?game_id=4415956 2010-09-10T00:08:04 Zaphus: it is indeed 2010-09-10T00:08:35 i basically couldn't use the stock playgame.jar to do the all-bots-all-maps test 2010-09-10T00:08:42 now it's.. much less painful 2010-09-10T00:09:06 danielvf: do you use winner= and looser= ever? 2010-09-10T00:09:35 j3camero: i'll attempt a trunk merge, see what conflicts 2010-09-10T00:09:44 i am looking at a diff now 2010-09-10T00:11:17 amstan: you could modify game_info to get what you want from it 2010-09-10T00:11:22 a1k0n: thanks. I just noticed that the code review is old-ish. I wanted to get someone to merge trunk into that branch before trying to review it and merge it back. 2010-09-10T00:11:24 the SQL query... you can look up the player name 2010-09-10T00:11:41 perhaps add a new field 2010-09-10T00:11:54 a1k0n: thats 5-10x faster, at a glance (probably much more, given that the bots themselves use lots of time) - my 9hr all bots all maps test would now be done in under an hour 2010-09-10T00:12:22 j3camero: is it save to svn merge trunk to it and then merge back? 2010-09-10T00:12:27 ideally i'd git rebase 2010-09-10T00:12:37 but i don't know if i can git-svn on this https google code stuff 2010-09-10T00:14:14 a1k0n: the function PovRepresentation appears like it uses StringBuilder in trunk, but string appending in your branch 2010-09-10T00:14:26 whereas everywhere else it's the opposite 2010-09-10T00:14:27 which branch? 2010-09-10T00:14:37 the 61_64, etc. 2010-09-10T00:14:46 i think j3camero merged the optimization to trunk and it wasn't in that branch 2010-09-10T00:14:53 ah 2010-09-10T00:14:57 that's why it needs to be rebased 2010-09-10T00:16:03 1st place is a time right now :) 2010-09-10T00:16:17 hah! 2010-09-10T00:16:33 bss03: right, ownership doesn't change if the planet just ends up with 0 ships 2010-09-10T00:16:35 my name is lexically first, i should be in 1st 2010-09-10T00:17:49 you were 1st before last change (albert moving up), albert is the most recent 1st 2010-09-10T00:18:00 maybe that is taken into account 2010-09-10T00:18:11 a1k0n: I think it's a good idea to bring the branch back into line with trunk before reviewing. Basically, you have to merge all the trunk-changes that have happened since the branch was created. 2010-09-10T00:18:12 no, the entire rankings are redone every time 2010-09-10T00:18:36 yeah. ugh. i need git-svn 2010-09-10T00:18:52 haha maybe next time we should just use git. 2010-09-10T00:19:35 yes 2010-09-10T00:19:47 that way we can branch legitimately :P 2010-09-10T00:20:08 Sounds cool. 2010-09-10T00:20:33 i guess svn works iff you can figure out exactly what revision range to merge 2010-09-10T00:20:52 *** Zaphus has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-10T00:20:53 *** amstan has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-09-10T00:21:14 svn merge -r 220:HEAD trunk/ branches/issue64_69_72_73/ looks like it's doing the right thing 2010-09-10T00:21:21 ..very slowly 2010-09-10T00:21:27 svn is simpler in many cases. However, I think it's times like these (many people, many branches, many issues being fixed all at once) where git probably shines. 2010-09-10T00:21:51 yeah, the only time i used svn was when it was only me committing 2010-09-10T00:21:58 yes, github would make it very easy to figure out what's going on in comparison 2010-09-10T00:22:16 plus i make extensive use of 'git log' which is expensive as hell in svn 2010-09-10T00:22:31 (and git rebase, which doesn't exist) 2010-09-10T00:22:36 Well maybe we will do that for the next challenge. 2010-09-10T00:22:44 * bss03 loves some git rebase action. 2010-09-10T00:22:50 ugh, whitespace conflicts 2010-09-10T00:22:55 I was just doing some rebasing earlier. 2010-09-10T00:22:56 the indentation in this java code is _fucked_ 2010-09-10T00:23:24 a1k0n: I know what you mean. I think somebody edited that code in eclipse or something. It is so messed up. 2010-09-10T00:23:43 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T00:23:44 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2010-09-10T00:23:53 someone had mixed tabs and spaces with a 4-space indent, and then someone loaded it with a 2-space tab and substituted spaces for tabs 2010-09-10T00:24:01 way to go, someone 2010-09-10T00:24:12 anyway this wasn't even a whitespace conflict, svn is just idiotic 2010-09-10T00:24:52 *** rwa has quit IRC (Quit: rwa) 2010-09-10T00:25:00 if you are talking about Game.java and whatnot that annoyed me too. 2010-09-10T00:25:25 *** Zaphus has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T00:25:27 um, how do i get svn to say this conflict is resolved? it doesn't believe me 2010-09-10T00:25:31 *** vikhyat has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T00:25:36 pgpaskar_: yes, exactly. wtf? 2010-09-10T00:25:37 it's no darcs, but git beats svn any day :) 2010-09-10T00:25:41 usually svn resolved filename. 2010-09-10T00:25:50 a1k0n: i considered running it all through an indenter 2010-09-10T00:25:53 to make it go away 2010-09-10T00:25:55 darcs is sweet. I used that once on a project. 2010-09-10T00:25:56 ah, resolve_d_ 2010-09-10T00:25:58 but i wanted to avoid merge problems. 2010-09-10T00:26:01 code review requested for adjusted elo, by the way 2010-09-10T00:26:11 pgpaskar_: same; i just reindented the section i worked on 2010-09-10T00:26:36 jmcarthur: cool. I'm just updating the starter package. I will look at it in a sec. 2010-09-10T00:26:43 dang, forgot to assign you to it. oh well :) 2010-09-10T00:26:53 jmcarthur: oh well 2010-09-10T00:28:31 *** rwa has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T00:28:51 j3camero: ok, merged, rev 251 2010-09-10T00:29:34 jmcarthur: what sort of formula are you using to adjust the elo scores? Are you just taking the bottom of the confidence interval? 2010-09-10T00:29:38 though now the actual review request is basically useless 2010-09-10T00:29:42 j3camero: yes, that's it 2010-09-10T00:29:52 a1k0n: thanks! I will start reviewing shortly. 2010-09-10T00:30:07 ...unless you just set it to view the diff between r220 and r229 2010-09-10T00:30:07 a1k0n: do you want to close that review and open a new one? 2010-09-10T00:30:24 yeah, let's do that 2010-09-10T00:30:44 jmcarthur: do you know how wide the current confidence intervals are? I am having trouble picturing the effect this would have. 2010-09-10T00:30:59 a1k0n: k. I will look for it in a minute. 2010-09-10T00:31:24 j3camero: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=4MvZSfJw 2010-09-10T00:31:38 j3camero: that's the sample data i tested with. it's about an hour and a half recent 2010-09-10T00:31:48 from the official server 2010-09-10T00:31:51 *** JensTi has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2010-09-10T00:31:51 jmcarthur: it seems to me the reported confidence intervals were really really wide at the end of Tron. They overlapped in a big way. I am wondering if this change would end up making the rankings more random. 2010-09-10T00:32:15 j3camero: a1k0n and i discussed that agreed that this is better for during the contest and we could look into changing it near the end 2010-09-10T00:32:22 if you agree 2010-09-10T00:32:49 j3camero: this will have positive ramifications on testing and on game scheduling, in the meantime 2010-09-10T00:33:06 the main rationale is that we've seen people play 2 games, lose both of them to really highly ranked players, and then be ranked like 3rd 2010-09-10T00:33:20 (with a ginormous confidence interval) 2010-09-10T00:33:34 well, it will effect game scheduling once the scheduler looks for similarly ranked players, that is 2010-09-10T00:34:07 *** rwa has quit IRC (Quit: rwa) 2010-09-10T00:34:43 sometimes my typos make me look like a non-native speaker, i suspect 2010-09-10T00:35:06 dammit. 2010-09-10T00:35:18 the new code review is just as broken as a result of the trunk merge 2010-09-10T00:36:24 j3camero: by the way, here is a comparison of the results for that test data i used http://hpaste.org/fastcgi/hpaste.fcgi/view?id=29844 2010-09-10T00:36:33 i included games played for clarity 2010-09-10T00:36:48 the difference is not as drastic there as it would be in practice though 2010-09-10T00:36:58 but the drastic differences would only be for new bots :) 2010-09-10T00:37:02 which is the point 2010-09-10T00:37:34 jmcarthur: okay so the difference is not drastic. It doesn't look like anybody got totally screwed. 2010-09-10T00:38:09 *** rwa has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T00:38:31 j3camero: new review bug http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/source/branch?spec=issue95 but it's just as broken; actual diff is http://paste.lisp.org/display/114411 2010-09-10T00:39:06 @type fromInteger 2010-09-10T00:39:07 bss03: Error: "type" is not a valid command. 2010-09-10T00:39:31 My worry is that once 1000 people join, the confidence intervals may blow up. If 90% of the bots have less than 10 games, we don't know what will happen. If the rankings become too noisy, people will not get the nice ascending feedback they expect when they improve their bots. I am suspicious. This may be a good change for the top 5% of people, but the bottom 95% may be frustrated. 2010-09-10T00:40:05 *** mistabell has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T00:40:56 let's discuss it after 1000 people join and we can compare with some actual data 2010-09-10T00:41:02 j3camero: if 90% of the bots only have 10 games then 90% of the bots are penalized the same way 2010-09-10T00:41:26 it's up to the scheduler to ensure that doesn't happen, and the scheduler is also improving right? 2010-09-10T00:41:37 how much has the new scheduler been tested? 2010-09-10T00:41:56 we really need a backup copy of the entire site somewhere we can test experimental stuff on 2010-09-10T00:42:11 dev.ai-contest 2010-09-10T00:42:28 app.a1k0n.net isn't doing much but it doesn't have much ram either 2010-09-10T00:42:57 *** philipj_ has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-10T00:43:02 a1k0n: yeah, a good UAT environment would be awesome. 2010-09-10T00:43:28 weird glitch. sometimes on the java starter pack, my bot is winning until the last frame, then all my planets and ships disappear and it loses. No exception is thrown. any ideas? 2010-09-10T00:43:55 it either timed out, crashed, or issued a bad order 2010-09-10T00:43:57 mistabell: no idea 2010-09-10T00:44:01 haha, k 2010-09-10T00:44:10 it could be our fault. 2010-09-10T00:44:15 seems kind of odd 2010-09-10T00:44:15 they disappear? do the planets revert to neutral? 2010-09-10T00:44:19 didn't know if it was something obvious. probably my fault. I never use java 2010-09-10T00:44:22 mistabell: if you use the tcp server, you'll see an exception if there is one 2010-09-10T00:44:32 I have a log setup for the exceptions 2010-09-10T00:44:38 no, that's what happens when a bot is kicked from the game 2010-09-10T00:44:43 ah 2010-09-10T00:44:49 so the last turn will be the only player remaining 2010-09-10T00:44:50 oh yeah, heh 2010-09-10T00:44:56 maybe I'm issuing a negative amount or of a planet that's not mine 2010-09-10T00:45:18 *** rwa has quit IRC (Quit: rwa) 2010-09-10T00:45:21 anyway, i just don't think it would be so bad if a majority of bots had huge confidence intervals. relative to each other it would still be nicer than simply going by the means 2010-09-10T00:45:45 yeah, if they all had similarly huge confidence intervals it's a wash 2010-09-10T00:46:11 but there's no question that if you get more games you get a higher score, and you have no control over the former 2010-09-10T00:46:16 we might want to consider normalizing the scores in some way if they look really bad, but i don't htink it's a big deal 2010-09-10T00:46:22 *** rwa has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T00:46:23 If the confidence interval shrinks as games are played, we would be ranking 90% of the bots based solely on how many games they had played. It's a risk. 2010-09-10T00:46:55 yeah it penalizes submission, which was kind of what you strove to prevent last time 2010-09-10T00:47:17 heh, we could work the other way and add the '+' so everybody starts at the top :P 2010-09-10T00:47:23 haha 2010-09-10T00:47:34 that's kinda how it worked with the win:loss ratio 2010-09-10T00:47:37 but the fact that that puts a bad taste in my mouth is probably a good sign that we want the opposite of that :P 2010-09-10T00:48:03 Is there some problem with they way using Elo is working out? 2010-09-10T00:48:22 bss03: it's shooting people around the ranks fairly wildly until they have played many games 2010-09-10T00:48:26 a1k0n and jmcarthur: can we hold off on the adjusted elo scores until a few days into the contest? We can even try to produce a hidden leaderboard that displays the adjusted rankings, just to see how well it holds up under strain once a lot of users flood the contest. Ranking stability is so crucial to maintaining the interest of most players. 2010-09-10T00:48:33 bss03: then when you resubmit a bot it does it all over 2010-09-10T00:48:35 j3camero: yes, you have much bigger fish to fry 2010-09-10T00:49:18 when does the contest go live? (is it already?) 2010-09-10T00:49:20 that's fine 2010-09-10T00:49:23 Or, don't rate bots until they have completed X games 2010-09-10T00:49:31 I think that's mainly because there so few people in the contest so far. 2010-09-10T00:49:47 I think it works well enough right now. Ranking stability is just too important to take a risk like this. Let's re-evaluate in a week or so, and this might very well turn out to be a great idea. 2010-09-10T00:50:04 bss03: no, it's because they can play a top ranked bot and then have a huge confidence interval even if they lose, which puts them near the top 2010-09-10T00:50:19 Also, I'm familiar with a Elo-based system that limits the maximum motion per-match to like 8, so rankings tend to be more stable that way. 2010-09-10T00:50:22 ranking *stability* is precisely what this offers though 2010-09-10T00:50:23 any sense how many games/hr the server can process? 2010-09-10T00:50:29 if i can just hold onto #1 until the official contest opens, that'd be an awesome segue from the last one 2010-09-10T00:50:30 bss03: this isn't just Elo 2010-09-10T00:50:37 bss03: this is a bayesian estimate of Elo 2010-09-10T00:50:50 bss03: a couple of days ago we had someone in 3rd place on the ladder, and they had played 3 games for 3 losses -= thats where it just feels broken 2010-09-10T00:51:16 rwa: I think we're getting like 60 games/hour right now. That is probably not going to be enough. We need more servers. I am pretty sure the leaderboard is going to fall to pieces once the masses start to join. 2010-09-10T00:51:31 I don't think people would mind if you had to play a few games before you made the scoreboard 2010-09-10T00:51:31 on the official site it won't be as likely though; i believe last time it didn't even rank you until you had 10 games played 2010-09-10T00:51:41 Still, it seems like you could so a modified Elo that limited your score to (InitialElo - gamesPlayed * 8, InitialElo + gamesPlayed * 8) 2010-09-10T00:51:46 mistabell: agree 2010-09-10T00:51:47 i've seen a couple of players with 2 games in under a minute 2010-09-10T00:52:18 yeah but you have to count on people using their entire second of cpu time per move once things get under way 2010-09-10T00:52:31 the engine can still be optimized, plenty of opportunity for that 2010-09-10T00:52:39 bss03: the patch i've made does something a little more principled than that 2010-09-10T00:52:42 We may have to lower the 1 second limit. Maybe make it 500ms or 200ms or something. 2010-09-10T00:52:54 j3camero: how many servers exist? the same 8-core xeon as last time? 2010-09-10T00:53:00 j3camero, 200ms and the jvm can't even start up 2010-09-10T00:53:03 Last time we got a huge boost in ranking stability by making the engine 10X faster. 2010-09-10T00:53:09 Queue29: first move gets 3 seconds 2010-09-10T00:53:15 bss03: it gives you a score such that it's 95% sure that your actual elo score is at least as large 2010-09-10T00:53:19 jmcarthur: Limiting the amount you can modify your rating per game doesn't seem unprincipled to me. 2010-09-10T00:53:45 j3camero: dhartmei has an independently-developed C engine already for benzedrine.cx 2010-09-10T00:53:46 bss03: but that's just elo. we're talking about an estimate of elo based on fewer games than can actually be afforded on the server 2010-09-10T00:53:59 we can just bring his engine into spec and use that for the contest evaluator 2010-09-10T00:54:01 a1k0n: is it somewhat secure? 2010-09-10T00:54:02 not quite 2010-09-10T00:54:07 *based on fewer games than would be necessary to nail down an actual elo score 2010-09-10T00:54:16 j3camero: it's a publicly exposed server, i believe so but haven't reviewed 2010-09-10T00:54:25 i'm still wording this badly 2010-09-10T00:54:26 the engine waits 2 seconds before giving turn 1 state to players 2010-09-10T00:54:34 jmcarthur: Bah, just actually play the games. You telling me Google does have some extra CPU time available? :P 2010-09-10T00:54:35 *** hornairs has quit IRC (Quit: hornairs) 2010-09-10T00:54:43 *** Zaphus has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-10T00:54:47 s/does/doesn't/ # blah!! 2010-09-10T00:54:51 a1k0n: oh, he's using TCP, not running the people's entries himself. 2010-09-10T00:54:55 bss03: bayeselo attempts to estimate the score you would have if you continued to play more games than you actually have 2010-09-10T00:55:00 j3camero: correct. but the engine is the engine. 2010-09-10T00:55:08 and could be used on stdin/stdout, etc. 2010-09-10T00:55:14 google only sponsors the contest 2010-09-10T00:55:15 http://us.runesofmagic.com/content/rules/contest_terms_conditions.html 2010-09-10T00:55:25 bss03: and because it's estimating, it shoots up very large numbers before many games have been played 2010-09-10T00:55:43 ...bahaha 2010-09-10T00:55:44 bss03: so by lowering that number based on the confidence in it, we dampen its effects 2010-09-10T00:56:00 and we can actually do that such that the number is still meaningful in some way 2010-09-10T00:56:08 how did contestbot speak? 2010-09-10T00:56:16 amstan: "google" at the start of a line 2010-09-10T00:56:22 a1k0n: okay we can look into that. If we can get a faster engine, I am all for it. I suspect that the lion's share of the cPU time is spent by client programs processing, not in the engine itself. 2010-09-10T00:56:28 google supybot 2010-09-10T00:56:29 http://supybot.com/ 2010-09-10T00:56:30 why not just require a legitimate sample size before assigning a rating to a player 2010-09-10T00:56:35 (meaning that we are 95% sure that the actual elo score is at least the reported score) 2010-09-10T00:56:36 Zannick: i must disable that 2010-09-10T00:56:37 j3camero: very likely 2010-09-10T00:56:45 amstan: yes, you should 2010-09-10T00:56:51 rwa: isn't that basically a less useful version of the same thing? 2010-09-10T00:56:52 j3camero: though on the current crop of bots, it probably isn't necessarily true 2010-09-10T00:57:04 j3camero: anyway, how many servers and what configuration? 2010-09-10T00:57:14 I don't understand what's less useful about it 2010-09-10T00:57:21 rwa: it's the difference between being low in the ladder until you have more games and not appearing on the ladder at all until you have more games 2010-09-10T00:57:36 being low on the ladder can at least give you some information earlier 2010-09-10T00:57:47 *** JCS^ has quit IRC (Quit: \x00) 2010-09-10T00:58:01 why force estimates low? Just don't pretend you have an estimate until you have one. 2010-09-10T00:58:17 rwa: how do you define "when you have one" though? 2010-09-10T00:58:22 jmcarthur: i think you're going to have to fight this one out another day 2010-09-10T00:58:29 rwa: The algo does have an estimate. 2010-09-10T00:58:38 rwa: It just also has a large confidence interval. 2010-09-10T00:58:49 a1k0n: you're right 2010-09-10T00:58:56 with some confidence that people feel isn't "too large" to give the spurious behavior you don't want to see 2010-09-10T00:59:04 j3camero: anything new on the improved tournament manager? 2010-09-10T00:59:30 rwa: Now that jmcarthur has explained what I was missing a bit more, I think his approach seems sound. 2010-09-10T00:59:55 i just want my bot to stop timing out :( 2010-09-10T01:00:04 rwa: but nobody will agree on what that level is. by snapping to the lower end of the confidence interval we eliminate all need to argue about where the threshold is while still enjoying its benefits 2010-09-10T01:00:08 i wish i could debug line by line.. 2010-09-10T01:00:12 jmcarthur: After a few hundred games, the bayesianelo will basically be the elo score, right. So, bots that have been around a few weeks will be very will set in the ratings. 2010-09-10T01:00:13 or can i? 2010-09-10T01:00:25 using python 2010-09-10T01:00:26 bss03: well, only if nobody resubmits 2010-09-10T01:00:37 no, the elo scores as they are only use the last 3 days 2010-09-10T01:00:39 bss03: *if those bots aren't replaced, i mean 2010-09-10T01:00:46 Zannick: oh? 2010-09-10T01:00:49 that's kind of lame 2010-09-10T01:00:53 jmcarthur: Yeah, resumit means resetting the elo history. 2010-09-10T01:01:05 what is your definition of "lower end"? 2010-09-10T01:01:08 bss03: but yeah, after enough games, the scores are the same as they would have been anyway 2010-09-10T01:01:14 *** Queue29 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2010-09-10T01:01:27 rwa: 95% confidence of being at least as large is just a standard number to use 2010-09-10T01:01:50 rwa: xbox live actually uses 99% confidence... 2010-09-10T01:01:53 jmcarthur: Using that low-ish estimate (Your rating is likely [95%] above this) means you still get to climb the rating and feel the rush to make your bot better. 2010-09-10T01:02:06 that's just another arbitrary choice 2010-09-10T01:02:11 user registration open yet? 2010-09-10T01:02:13 eh sure 2010-09-10T01:02:27 a1k0n is right. this isn't worth arguing right now 2010-09-10T01:02:29 icefox: no not yet 2010-09-10T01:02:49 rwa an arbitrary choice that still leaves partial information available! 2010-09-10T01:03:19 whereas a threshold does not 2010-09-10T01:04:02 *shrug* - I don't think it's "wrong" in any sense, just a little odd 2010-09-10T01:04:44 although I suppose I can acknowledge an addictive effect of watching bots climb the ladder 2010-09-10T01:04:51 j3camero: did you see my ticket about kvm? 2010-09-10T01:04:57 *** Zannick has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-09-10T01:05:12 speaking of server performance 2010-09-10T01:05:18 *** Zaphus has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T01:05:30 In case people are taking off to go to bed, I just want to thank everybody for all their hard work. I appreciate it. Every time we knock off one of these issues, it helps hundreds of people instantly. It's all about bringing computer science to the masses by making learning fun. You guys rock! 2010-09-10T01:05:32 *** asloane has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2010-09-10T01:05:35 http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/detail?id=83 2010-09-10T01:05:36 *** Zannick has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T01:05:47 jmcarthur: I did see the ticket about kvm. Very interesting. 2010-09-10T01:05:59 did i miss any messages? 2010-09-10T01:06:22 rwa: I think we are open to negotiating 95%, 61.8%, 99.999% -- probably whatever can be done fastest (and is > 50%) is better. 2010-09-10T01:06:42 it's written for 95% already 2010-09-10T01:06:55 When I watch the website traffic on Google Analytics, I can see a direct correlation between fixing issues and traffic. Whenever we had a big issue-fixing day during the Tron contest, traffic would bump up by about 20% the next day and stay up. It really makes a difference. 2010-09-10T01:07:14 j3camero: interesting 2010-09-10T01:07:48 well, it's *roughly* 95%. i'm not 100% sure what the confidence interval bayeselo is reporting, so i'm assuming it's 95% because that is typical 2010-09-10T01:08:13 So a day like this helps reduce user frustration greatly. Which means that hundreds of people who didnt know much about programming before now know a little bit. They bring that experience to their schools and their jobs. It really changes lives. 2010-09-10T01:08:19 how many entries did the tron contest get total? 2010-09-10T01:08:43 j3camero: you're doing excellent work here. My hat's off to you. 2010-09-10T01:08:43 About 1200 people submitted working bots. 2010-09-10T01:09:18 excellent work in the sense of socially constructive work 2010-09-10T01:09:23 * jmcarthur made an actual hats-off motion with his hand 2010-09-10T01:09:56 Its all hats off to you. 2010-09-10T01:10:22 i've found several bugs just reading back through my code, but i need to test each of my functions and i'm not sure how to do so considering it loads the PlanetWars class instance in to all of them 2010-09-10T01:10:53 its not very useful to see "Player 1 timed out." and just know _something_ _somewhere_ is broken.. 2010-09-10T01:11:17 This is GAC4 that we're about to open. GAC1 got 2500 pageviews. GAC2 got 50,000. GAC3 got 1,300,000. This time we're going for over 20,000,000, and it cannot be done without a large and dedicated crew. I need your help. 2010-09-10T01:11:25 that's what debug logs are for... although you have to be careful that you don't burn too much time writing to a debug log... 2010-09-10T01:12:32 *** mightybyte has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2010-09-10T01:13:02 contestbot: grab j3camero 2010-09-10T01:13:02 amstan: The operation succeeded. 2010-09-10T01:13:17 contestbot: quote j3camero 2010-09-10T01:13:17 amstan: This is GAC4 that we're about to open. GAC1 got 2500 pageviews. GAC2 got 50,000. GAC3 got 1,300,000. This time we're going for over 20,000,000, and it cannot be done without a large and dedicated crew. I need your help. 2010-09-10T01:13:23 heheh 2010-09-10T01:14:37 rwa: whats the correct way to send output to a test log? 2010-09-10T01:14:40 you've probably passed GAC2 just from the testers :-) 2010-09-10T01:14:47 print foo doesnt seem to work.. 2010-09-10T01:14:55 millertime, what's your language of choice? 2010-09-10T01:14:59 python 2010-09-10T01:15:18 Well, I have a bot in the running, now, but it's just the example. :P 2010-09-10T01:16:24 millertime, this should get you started: http://pentangle.net/python/handbook/node35.html 2010-09-10T01:16:48 oh, manually! durrr 2010-09-10T01:17:02 thanks sir 2010-09-10T01:17:08 millertime: it can be useful to print enter/exit msgs from key fns, then when something goes wrong you'll likely have a bracket on the problem 2010-09-10T01:17:10 * millertime feels duuuumb 2010-09-10T01:17:38 I fumbled with stdout for a bit until I realized that can't work here... 2010-09-10T01:17:40 rwa: thank you very much.. i will be writing just about everything i can think of to a log 2010-09-10T01:18:24 millertime: i/o can be time consuming, so be careful you don't chew up your 1s writing out too much data 2010-09-10T01:18:33 a1k0n: I don't see any changes in that latest code review for the battle resolution. The diff seems to be composed of all the changes we've made the trunk this evening, and nothing more. 2010-09-10T01:18:59 you could cache all the log data in memory, then dump it out on exit (when you see the EOF) 2010-09-10T01:19:02 any chance I can score an account? all the cool kids have one already. 2010-09-10T01:19:38 rwa: all the cool kids are playing at http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/ 2010-09-10T01:19:42 Zaphus: excellent idea, i will create a string with debug data and at the end just write that string to the file 2010-09-10T01:20:10 j3camero: New viz. still not up? Or do I have to manually re-direct myself to it. My browser seems to want to use the Java version, and that's broken. 2010-09-10T01:20:12 tapwater: thanks. 2010-09-10T01:20:30 j3camero: did you see my paste.lisp.org link? 2010-09-10T01:20:40 rwa: np. see you on the top :) 2010-09-10T01:20:43 bss03: try vizualizer_canvas.php instead of visualizer.php 2010-09-10T01:20:51 j3camero: the review is showing all of the revisions on that branch, including the one that merged to trunk, so that really screwed it up 2010-09-10T01:20:57 a1k0n: nope could you send it again? 2010-09-10T01:21:04 http://paste.lisp.org/display/114411 2010-09-10T01:21:07 thx 2010-09-10T01:21:12 that's the diff between trunk and the branch 2010-09-10T01:22:35 a1k0n: okay reading... 2010-09-10T01:22:49 Haha! My bot is even worse than the example! It won't send a fleet if the *other* player has a fleet out. 2010-09-10T01:23:08 So, it sends it first fleet and never does anything else. LOL! 2010-09-10T01:24:18 a1k0n: have you tested the Java portions? 2010-09-10T01:24:43 very well, yes 2010-09-10T01:25:28 a1k0n: okay. The Java portions looks stylistically great, so I'll consider those kosher. Have you done any testing on the Python engine changes? 2010-09-10T01:25:48 a1k0n: if not, I can test those carefully, but I am too tired to do it now. It will have to wait until tomorrow. 2010-09-10T01:25:55 are the ai-contest.com entrants going to get wiped before it officially opens? 2010-09-10T01:25:59 j3camero: ok. i have done no testing on the python code 2010-09-10T01:26:11 a1k0n: alright that's fine. 2010-09-10T01:26:17 did the elo scores on profile page get reverted? 2010-09-10T01:26:33 j3camero: How many hours until official launch of the competition ? 2010-09-10T01:26:49 a1k0n: would you call the current state of the contest decent enough to open to the public? If I threw on account creation and went AFK for 16 hours, would that be okay? 2010-09-10T01:26:53 woohoo, batting 1.000 2010-09-10T01:27:56 a1k0n: I think it would be acceptable. It would suck less than the Tron contest when we first opened it. 2010-09-10T01:28:55 rwa: what does it mean when i get the "Player 1 has timed out" and I have no file created.. 2010-09-10T01:29:00 j3camero: as long as it includes the java changes, yes 2010-09-10T01:29:07 which, for me, is called debug.txt 2010-09-10T01:29:35 we definitely need the initial starter pack engine to not be totally broken 2010-09-10T01:29:38 millertime: do you play any turns before the timeout? 2010-09-10T01:29:41 millertime: either exceeded time limit per turn or failed to start.. 2010-09-10T01:29:50 and having fleets disappear without effect is pretty broken 2010-09-10T01:29:55 rwa: dont think so 2010-09-10T01:30:24 if you comment out your entire DoTurn() fn, does your bot run? 2010-09-10T01:30:31 is that a syntax error in my code? 2010-09-10T01:30:52 rwa: and not have a DoTurn() fn at all? 2010-09-10T01:30:54 millertime: maybe. I would try to get a no-op bot going first, then add stuff little by little 2010-09-10T01:31:22 have the fn, just have it do nothing to start. that will tell you if you've got something else causing you a problem or if its your bot code 2010-09-10T01:31:27 a1k0n: yes you are right. Distributing broken starter packages is dumb because it is impossible to recall the changes later. 2010-09-10T01:31:46 yes, and you'll be fielding bug requests from now on 2010-09-10T01:32:17 rwa: i figured it would require a valid turn to take place in order to not time out 2010-09-10T01:32:25 a1k0n: okay I will attempt to merge just the Java changes into trunk. Are all the Java changes located inside the planet_wars/viz directory? 2010-09-10T01:32:30 millertime: a valid turn is to issue no orders 2010-09-10T01:32:36 right on 2010-09-10T01:32:48 or I should say issuing no orders is a valid turn 2010-09-10T01:33:06 j3camero: would it be 'fun' to add the 3 best starter-package bots to the list of entrants, starterpack_rage, startpack_dual, starterpack_??? as a baseline for people ? 2010-09-10T01:33:10 j3camero: yes 2010-09-10T01:33:29 a1k0n: okay I will give it a shot. 2010-09-10T01:33:30 woot!, believe it or not, but this took 2 hours; http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~amstan/aichallenge/testjson/game_info.php?game_id=4161292 2010-09-10T01:33:48 Good show amstan! Sorry I was not of more help to you. 2010-09-10T01:34:06 lots of factors made it impossible to somehow get sample data, lol 2010-09-10T01:34:56 rwa: with nothing in DoTurn() except "return" i now get a ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException 2010-09-10T01:35:01 Zaphus: yes go ahead and do that if you like! 2010-09-10T01:35:05 j3camero: is sharing the activation_codes a security problem? 2010-09-10T01:35:25 amstan: yeah. Don't do that. 2010-09-10T01:35:36 *** Utkarsh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-09-10T01:35:38 j3camero: what should i blank out? pass, email activation_code? 2010-09-10T01:35:42 amstan: I am not sure how, but let's not do that. 2010-09-10T01:36:16 millertime: maybe start with a fresh starter kit? did you muck with some of the code somewhere outside of DoTurn? 2010-09-10T01:36:16 j3camero: basically you can just take my paste.lisp.org diff, trim the python stuff out, and use patch 2010-09-10T01:36:23 j3camero: i am sure many people in here are interested in sample sql 2010-09-10T01:36:24 amstan: anything that is personal data, or which you feel sketchy about, like activation codes or hashes of passwords. Remember that using the hashes you can sometimes get people's passwords. 2010-09-10T01:36:38 millertime: paste the command with which you start the game 2010-09-10T01:36:39 j3camero: do you want me to go and create three accounts then ? 2010-09-10T01:36:43 j3camero: i took them all out 2010-09-10T01:37:29 Zaphus: yes go ahead and create three accounts. I will open 'er up. 2010-09-10T01:37:53 wow minecraft with red/cyan 3d glasses is frickin awesome 2010-09-10T01:38:00 amstan: cool 2010-09-10T01:38:08 j3camero: will it let me use the same email address I've already used ? 2010-09-10T01:38:11 rwa: scratch that last comment, cause just having Python try to run the bot file gives me indentation errors cause of the block-commenting.. so dumb.. 2010-09-10T01:38:28 i found a new way to find small bugs 2010-09-10T01:38:36 "python MyBot.py" 2010-09-10T01:38:58 yep, all safe: http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~amstan/aichallenge/sample.sql 2010-09-10T01:39:04 Zaphus: no, but you can use the trick where you do zaphus+a@gmail.com, zaphus+b@gmail.com, etc. 2010-09-10T01:39:10 ok 2010-09-10T01:39:12 contestbot: learn sampledb as http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~amstan/aichallenge/sample.sql 2010-09-10T01:39:12 amstan: The operation succeeded. 2010-09-10T01:41:28 gah, finally got it to accept my comment blocks... bleh 2010-09-10T01:41:53 aaaand tomorrow i will not be working on my bot 2010-09-10T01:41:57 j3camero: did you happen to update game_info.php? i can do it now 2010-09-10T01:42:05 guess i get to miss the hiccups of day 1 2010-09-10T01:42:23 *** Utkarsh has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T01:42:38 someone's impersonating cheese_bot >_< 2010-09-10T01:43:02 amstan: I made no changes to game_info.php. What did you have in mind? 2010-09-10T01:43:19 j3camero: it's a small fix 2010-09-10T01:43:23 a1k0n: Are the only Java changes located in Game.java? 2010-09-10T01:43:42 amstan: oh right. I remember. Yes, go ahead and fix that. Are you a committer? 2010-09-10T01:43:53 j3camero: i'm not sure how to branch and do all that 2010-09-10T01:44:34 j3camero: yeah, provided you already got the engine.java ones which you did 2010-09-10T01:48:11 bedtime 2010-09-10T01:48:23 k, so ... game_info.php had a very nice sql injection 2010-09-10T01:48:27 don't stay up too late guys. get it done and get some sleep. tomorrow will be busy 2010-09-10T01:48:32 game_info was not escaped.. 2010-09-10T01:48:36 cool, eh? 2010-09-10T01:48:45 amstan: rock! 2010-09-10T01:48:55 same code was used for tron too 2010-09-10T01:49:01 funny how nobody hacked it 2010-09-10T01:49:09 yeah... funny... 2010-09-10T01:49:20 jmcarthur: thanks for all your help! 2010-09-10T01:49:26 gnite everybody 2010-09-10T01:49:43 my pleaure. i want this to be good :) 2010-09-10T01:50:46 okay, i have been working too much on improving this for now 2010-09-10T01:51:20 *** tapwater has quit IRC (Quit: tapwater) 2010-09-10T01:51:22 my patches and branches are all in the queue 2010-09-10T01:51:22 Ok, as a note - the RageBot.java code doesnt compile as it is :-) 2010-09-10T01:51:51 see you all around 2010-09-10T01:51:54 *** Zannick has left #aichallenge 2010-09-10T01:52:18 Zannick: thanks for your help. It is greatly appreciated. Remind me to share the traffic graphs with you, so you can see the fruits of your labors :-) 2010-09-10T01:53:18 Zaphus: i seem to remember changing something to fix that 2010-09-10T01:53:26 just the classname i believe 2010-09-10T01:53:44 classname, plus Distance() takes different parameters 2010-09-10T01:54:05 dualbot also doesnt compile, Production() isnt defined 2010-09-10T01:55:08 hehe, i tried to copy that line of code.. found out you have to determine Production() on your own ;) 2010-09-10T01:56:43 *** contestbot has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T01:56:44 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o contestbot 2010-09-10T01:57:34 woot! finally: 2010-09-10T01:57:43 @game 4415957 2010-09-10T01:57:44 amstan: Game played at 2010-09-09 20:16:34, on map 684, cheese_bot beat a1k0n. http://ai-contest.com/visualizer_canvas.php?game_id=4415957 2010-09-10T01:58:19 ok, Starterpack_Rage and Starterpack_Dual are now uploaded. Dont think there's much point doing the others, I found those two the strongest 2010-09-10T01:58:53 can someone tell me if they see any major reason for this to cause my bot to time out? http://pastebin.com/jajSRRva 2010-09-10T01:58:58 is there a certain number of games to play before you appear on rankings.php? 2010-09-10T01:59:12 PurplePanda: when did you upload your code? 2010-09-10T01:59:33 ~5 minutes and two games ago 2010-09-10T01:59:45 PurplePanda: yeah.. just wait a little 2010-09-10T01:59:48 millertime: opening, writing, and closing files can cause a timeout - I even get that on a windows PC occasionally 2010-09-10T01:59:54 PurplePanda: the rankings are a cronjob 2010-09-10T02:00:00 ah 2010-09-10T02:00:25 Zaphus: crap diddley.. should i only be doing so in main()? 2010-09-10T02:01:12 millertime: Honestly, try to write to a memory file or something and dump out at the end... OR - get someone to modify playgame.java to allow you to ignore timeouts (or set them higher) for debugging purposes 2010-09-10T02:01:37 damn that was a long day 2010-09-10T02:02:17 also why is the non canvas visualizer default? is it better? only i don't have java here :-) 2010-09-10T02:02:52 Zaphus: no need to modify PlayGame, its second argument is ms/turn.. 2010-09-10T02:03:11 ratatata: really ! wow, shows how much I looked at it :-) 2010-09-10T02:03:21 amstan: wow i got pwned by cheesebot 2010-09-10T02:03:30 yep 2010-09-10T02:03:39 it fooled me because I saw 1000 1000 and thought it was the number of turns twice 2010-09-10T02:03:47 Okay a1k0n I have pushed the new starter packages live. 2010-09-10T02:03:56 The contest is basically open now. 2010-09-10T02:04:04 has the python one changed? 2010-09-10T02:04:08 playgame ..iirc 2010-09-10T02:04:09 er that was a different game 2010-09-10T02:04:12 j3camero: awesome! 2010-09-10T02:04:25 Can people just help to check for mistakes by downloading one of the latest starter packages, and just running a few games? 2010-09-10T02:04:36 ratatata: lol just added a bunch of zeros.. 2010-09-10T02:05:23 j3camero: when do sign ups officially open? it's friday afternoon here 2010-09-10T02:06:14 *** vikhyat has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-09-10T02:07:44 PurplePanda: The canvas viz. doesn't work in IE, also it is still being worked on some. 2010-09-10T02:07:57 j3camero: C++ pack looks good to me 2010-09-10T02:08:17 kk. will keep typing _canvas :-) 2010-09-10T02:08:28 i still think elo scores should be translated such that they're all positive 2010-09-10T02:08:29 j3camero: I second that, C++ seems to work well 2010-09-10T02:09:10 will this work? ^http://ai-contest.com/visualizer_canvas.php?game_id=\s+(.*)$ 2010-09-10T02:09:13 PurplePanda: USe GreaseMonkey to edit the links for you. :P 2010-09-10T02:09:42 Starterpack_Rage has beaten Galcon twice :-) 2010-09-10T02:09:57 antimatroid1: they are open now 2010-09-10T02:10:17 bss03, on chrome? 2010-09-10T02:10:25 millertime: the problem in that code is not timeout.. the file open tag.. try open('filename','a') 2010-09-10T02:10:35 antimatroid1: good idea. I will add a big number to the elo scores. 2010-09-10T02:11:39 done, we're officially "youwillfail" this time around 2010-09-10T02:11:46 Man, I cannot even fathom all the work we've got done in the last three days. The contest is so much less suck than it would have been. 2010-09-10T02:12:15 PurplePanda: Oh, hrm, maybe something like it... 2010-09-10T02:12:26 j3camero: thaks for taking the time 2010-09-10T02:12:55 ratatata: wow i didnt realize i opened it for reading.. whoops. 2010-09-10T02:13:08 took that whole part out and it still times out 2010-09-10T02:16:01 hmm, took out the line debug = 2010-09-10T02:16:05 and now it doesnt time out 2010-09-10T02:16:32 millertime: try str(source).. python doesnt concatenate string+integer 2010-09-10T02:17:31 sdfjksladfsadklf 2010-09-10T02:17:34 i knew that 2010-09-10T02:17:37 *** vikhyat has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T02:17:46 Check out the new elo scores. They are... higher. 2010-09-10T02:18:07 Anyways, it looks like I am okay to go AFK for 16 hours or so. I will see you all tomorrow! 2010-09-10T02:18:11 The contest is now open! 2010-09-10T02:18:12 contestbot: rankings 2010-09-10T02:18:13 amstan: Top 10 players: a1k0n(2775), albert(2703), seigen(2693), zaphus(2544), RymbuVV(2498), cheese_bot(2471), mistabell(2451), inverselimit(2382), gvsmirnov(2279), phreeza(2271) 2010-09-10T02:18:23 what? why? 2010-09-10T02:18:24 night 2010-09-10T02:18:38 amstan: everyone just got way better all of a sudden. 2010-09-10T02:18:46 lol, how? 2010-09-10T02:18:50 j3camero: can i reddit it? 2010-09-10T02:19:05 added a constant amount to shift them all above zero 2010-09-10T02:19:46 but now even the lowest has 1380 ELO score, maybe added too much shift? 2010-09-10T02:19:53 j3camero: you sure it's open? 2010-09-10T02:20:06 amstan: I registered a couple of minutes ago 2010-09-10T02:20:32 *** kozlovsky has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T02:21:07 k! everyone: http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/dbys4/google_ai_challenge_planet_wars_is_now_open/ 2010-09-10T02:21:21 *** Palmik has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T02:21:27 I'd pull a thousand off that Elo score, we're not grandmasters yet :-) 2010-09-10T02:21:51 WOOHOO signed up! 2010-09-10T02:22:03 contestbot: topic swap 2 4 2010-09-10T02:22:03 *** contestbot changes topic to "Official Google AI Challenge: http://ai-contest.com/ || http://contestbot.hypertriangle.com/ || Developers wanted, contact j3camero. || Contest will start Friday September 10th." 2010-09-10T02:22:23 contestbot: topic remove 4 2010-09-10T02:22:23 *** contestbot changes topic to "Official Google AI Challenge: http://ai-contest.com/ || http://contestbot.hypertriangle.com/ || Developers wanted, contact j3camero." 2010-09-10T02:22:48 will a ruby bot work right now? 2010-09-10T02:23:49 sigh.. 2010-09-10T02:23:53 i put it in reddit.com 2010-09-10T02:23:54 darn! 2010-09-10T02:24:02 ha, just delete it :P 2010-09-10T02:24:48 you deleted right before i submitted a comment :( 2010-09-10T02:24:53 *** mistabell_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T02:24:55 sorry, lol 2010-09-10T02:25:00 now i can't resubmit it! 2010-09-10T02:25:02 noo!! 2010-09-10T02:25:05 I like the high scores 2010-09-10T02:25:06 my worst nightmare 2010-09-10T02:25:12 ha, wait 10 minutes :P 2010-09-10T02:25:20 and now someone else is going to do it 2010-09-10T02:25:30 i think it's better ifyou do 2010-09-10T02:25:37 as one of the organisers 2010-09-10T02:25:55 alright a1k0n. what's the secret 2010-09-10T02:26:09 @rankings 3 2010-09-10T02:26:10 amstan: Top 3 players: a1k0n(2778), seigen(2706), albert(2703) 2010-09-10T02:26:15 how the hell? 2010-09-10T02:26:20 he got to 3000 nwo 2010-09-10T02:26:41 *** mistabell has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-10T02:26:58 damnit. closed the wrong tab. 2010-09-10T02:27:30 there's a fine balance between sending a bunch of ships to other planets and sending them in one direction 2010-09-10T02:27:31 3 min left 2010-09-10T02:27:50 mistabell_: how? 2010-09-10T02:28:43 hahah what the hell? 2010-09-10T02:28:56 is someone adding 2000 to the ratings? if so, how did that go in? 2010-09-10T02:28:58 a1k0n: all scores got scaled 2010-09-10T02:28:59 a1k0n: it wouldn't be fun if you win again, lol 2010-09-10T02:29:05 antimatroid1: did they? 2010-09-10T02:29:08 upwards, so all are above 0 2010-09-10T02:29:10 @amstan, I wish I knew, haha 2010-09-10T02:29:11 mistabell_: Error: "amstan," is not a valid command. 2010-09-10T02:29:18 *** dhartmei has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T02:29:42 antimatroid1: was it part of the scheduling changes or something? 2010-09-10T02:29:44 (4:12:12 PM) j3camero: Check out the new elo scores. They are... higher. 2010-09-10T02:29:45 or did jeff just agree to do it? 2010-09-10T02:29:53 jeff did it just before 2010-09-10T02:29:55 I think it looks better with higher numbers 2010-09-10T02:30:08 haha 2010-09-10T02:30:10 oh ok 2010-09-10T02:30:12 word 2010-09-10T02:30:15 i don't think they needed to be that high, but it's not really important 2010-09-10T02:30:22 and i do think it's a good idea to have people above 0 2010-09-10T02:30:35 antimatroid1: what's the diff? 2010-09-10T02:30:36 *** jaspervdj has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T02:30:37 the Elo scores should be brought down by about 1000, but it's not really that important. you'd really have to suck to get 0 now :-) 2010-09-10T02:30:38 anyway i have to say it's funny that the bot threw together tuesday night is so strong 2010-09-10T02:30:42 auesthetics for new comers :P 2010-09-10T02:30:56 antimatroid1: at the tron one, i was in lead for 1 week before someone beat me 2010-09-10T02:30:59 dmj's is already stronger 2010-09-10T02:31:09 amstan: hah nice 2010-09-10T02:31:11 there we go: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/dbyuu/google_ai_challenge_planet_wars_is_now_open/ 2010-09-10T02:31:20 and so it began 2010-09-10T02:31:33 Woot! 2010-09-10T02:31:37 news.yc also 2010-09-10T02:31:40 ok, bets on how long until the server falls over one way or the other ? 2010-09-10T02:31:50 contestbot: topic add http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/dbyuu/google_ai_challenge_planet_wars_is_now_open/ 2010-09-10T02:31:50 *** contestbot changes topic to "Official Google AI Challenge: http://ai-contest.com/ || http://contestbot.hypertriangle.com/ || Developers wanted, contact j3camero. || http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/dbyuu/google_ai_challenge_planet_wars_is_now_open/" 2010-09-10T02:33:00 a1k0n: do you have the link for news.yc? 2010-09-10T02:34:01 news.ycombinator.com 2010-09-10T02:35:15 *** blkperl has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T02:35:22 * millertime waves at blkperl 2010-09-10T02:35:48 * blkperl waves back 2010-09-10T02:36:36 contestbot: rankings 100 2010-09-10T02:36:36 amstan: Error: Cannot do that many players. 2010-09-10T02:36:40 contestbot: rankings 50 2010-09-10T02:36:41 amstan: Error: Cannot do that many players. 2010-09-10T02:36:45 contestbot: rankings 40 2010-09-10T02:36:45 http://www.galcon.com/news/2010/09/10/google-ai-challenge-featuring-galcon/ - wheee 2010-09-10T02:36:45 amstan: Top 40 players: a1k0n(2827), albert(2754), seigen(2748), zaphus(2589), cheese_bot(2525), mistabell(2508), inverselimit(2436), gvsmirnov(2323), phreeza(2316), pepebotella(2197), galcon(2151), UloPe(2125), Max(2115), Starterpack_Rage(2103), tavator(2067), j3camero(2001), Starterpack_Dual(1993), Mathnerd314(1924), jdonland(1886), tarstars(1878), i02agsij(1863), grdshch(1860), tebele(1841), (1 more message) 2010-09-10T02:36:49 more 2010-09-10T02:36:59 that's a lot of people already 2010-09-10T02:37:27 * blkperl wonders how hard it would be to make a ruby starter kit 2010-09-10T02:37:49 blkperl: http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=401 2010-09-10T02:38:22 anyone else noticed that the time formats on the tables in profile pages are different? :) 2010-09-10T02:38:31 thank you 2010-09-10T02:38:34 ratatata: yeah, there's an issue for it 2010-09-10T02:39:16 anyone clever enough to monitor the standings and generate a graph of number of live bots over the next 24 hours ? 2010-09-10T02:41:06 did something end up getting implemented for conflict resolutions yet? I have time to throw up a stickyable forum thread on the topic now 2010-09-10T02:41:21 jaspervdj: It's late here (1AM). I think the pull request I just sent it is last one for the night. 2010-09-10T02:41:59 jaspervdj: Depending on how much time I have this weekend, I'll try and get all the example bots translated and send a pull request when that is done. 2010-09-10T02:42:33 antimatroid1: We went with the solution proposed by jmcathur. 2010-09-10T02:43:19 bss03: which one was that? 2010-09-10T02:43:40 antimatroid1: That's the n-way combat where fleets are combined based on owner, then one ship from each fleet is gradually eliminated. 2010-09-10T02:43:56 I don't have a link to the forum thread right now, and the forum doesn't seem to like my browser. :( 2010-09-10T02:44:23 contestbot: what botrepo 2010-09-10T02:44:23 amstan: botrepo could be http://github.com/amstan/contestbot. 2010-09-10T02:45:04 contestbot: later tell danielvf i added some things to game_info.php so it's easy to determine winner: http://github.com/amstan/contestbot/blob/master/gameinfo.py 2010-09-10T02:45:04 amstan: The operation succeeded. 2010-09-10T02:45:54 amstan: What starter package are you using? It seems to be crashing, or timeing out or something. 2010-09-10T02:46:04 bss03: idk 2010-09-10T02:46:06 i think the cpp 2010-09-10T02:46:08 amstan: http://ai-contest.com/visualizer_canvas.php?game_id=4420448 2010-09-10T02:46:11 any chance boost is installed on the server? 2010-09-10T02:46:14 up to 37 bots now 2010-09-10T02:46:20 has ruby been added to the server? 2010-09-10T02:46:35 contestbot: url issues 2010-09-10T02:46:35 amstan: issues could be http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/list. 2010-09-10T02:46:55 Utkarsh: my submission didn't work so i would guess not 2010-09-10T02:47:04 Utkarsh: it's in the works.. it'll come soon 2010-09-10T02:47:09 Utkarsh: probably this weekend 2010-09-10T02:47:35 vikhyat: is your ruby starter kit on github or something? 2010-09-10T02:47:46 Has someone noted that the oganization_profile page errors? 2010-09-10T02:47:52 blkperl: no, sorry 2010-09-10T02:47:54 * greghaynes waves to blkperl 2010-09-10T02:48:14 vikhyat: i can make patches if you put it on github :) 2010-09-10T02:48:19 * blkperl waves to greghaynes 2010-09-10T02:48:28 antimatroid1: http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=419#p2416 is the proposal we decided on. 2010-09-10T02:48:38 blkperl: i'll get to it in a minute 2010-09-10T02:49:18 nice :) 2010-09-10T02:49:39 bss03: It's early here :-) 2010-09-10T02:49:52 bss03: Getting all the example bots translated would be pretty cool 2010-09-10T02:50:15 bss03: I just moved from [Fleet] to IntMap Fleet BTW -- this might break some code :-/ 2010-09-10T02:50:39 amstan, vikhyat do you know if ruby1.9 will be used or 1.8? 2010-09-10T02:50:53 antimatroid1: Someone's already got a haskell implementation http://github.com/stephen-smith/ai-contest-2010/blob/simplify-engageMany/PlanetWars.hs -- function engageMany, lines 175-202 2010-09-10T02:50:54 amstan: Has someone taken note of this: http://ai-contest.com/organization_profile.php?org_id=81 ? 2010-09-10T02:50:56 @later tell j3camero these are still broken: http://ai-contest.com/organization_profile.php?org_id=120 http://ai-contest.com/language_profile.php?lang=Python 2010-09-10T02:50:56 amstan: The operation succeeded. 2010-09-10T02:50:59 rank 24, with a practically vanilla bot :P 2010-09-10T02:51:05 greghaynes: yes, it's in the issue list 2010-09-10T02:51:13 Ah, wheres that at? 2010-09-10T02:51:20 @where issues 2010-09-10T02:51:20 amstan: issues could be http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/list. 2010-09-10T02:51:21 So I dont pester about other things 2010-09-10T02:51:29 noice 2010-09-10T02:51:45 jaspervdj: That's fine. I'll try and follow your lead and fix up my code if you make incompatible changes. 2010-09-10T02:52:14 bss03: Also, I've added `step` and `engageAll` functions 2010-09-10T02:52:22 greghaynes: go reddit it: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/dbyuu/google_ai_challenge_planet_wars_is_now_open/ 2010-09-10T02:52:44 jaspervdj: grep0's repository was already using it for some things with fleets, so I feel pretty comfortable with it already. 2010-09-10T02:52:46 shit i think we (meaning i) may have broken IO on the java engine (maybe only on windows?) 2010-09-10T02:52:54 http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=470&p=2641#p2636 2010-09-10T02:53:16 a1k0n: oh man.. lol 2010-09-10T02:53:24 a1k0n: oh well.. just remember it for tomorrow 2010-09-10T02:53:25 jaspervdj: Yeah, I wrote you a mail sort of about step/engageAll. grep0 has a bunch of code to do evaluation in his branch already. 2010-09-10T02:53:40 kk 2010-09-10T02:53:49 I'll try to merge it then 2010-09-10T02:54:01 jaspervdj: So, you might think about merging instead of re-writing, but you step/engageAll does exactly match any of this current functions, maybe. 2010-09-10T02:54:13 Utkarsh: k.. ruby ruby 2010-09-10T02:55:15 hmm i didn't change any of the flushing stuff that was there 2010-09-10T02:55:19 Utkarsh: ruby's not installed yet, as said on the forums, it will probably be the default that comes with ubuntu hardy 2010-09-10T02:55:38 apt-get install ruby :) 2010-09-10T02:55:44 don't have sudo 2010-09-10T02:55:51 blkperl: http://github.com/vikhyat/ai-contest-ruby 2010-09-10T02:55:57 i was assuming you were in a root shell :) 2010-09-10T02:56:06 jaspervdj: I already optimized his combat resolver for the 3-way condition and sent him a pull request. 2010-09-10T02:56:06 vikhyat: thaks 2010-09-10T02:56:10 vikhyat: thanks :) 2010-09-10T02:56:23 amstan: apt-get install ruby1.9 would install ruby 1.9 on ubuntu hardy 2010-09-10T02:56:27 jaspervdj: Am I repeating my email, yet? :P I need sleep. 2010-09-10T02:57:01 vikhyat: can you still execute it with "ruby"? 2010-09-10T02:57:17 amstan: not sure, i'll have a look 2010-09-10T02:57:32 bss03: I'm going to study his combat resolver later 2010-09-10T02:57:45 upvote this guys: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/dbyuu/google_ai_challenge_planet_wars_is_now_open/ 2010-09-10T02:58:01 Do I need a reddit account? I don't think I have one. 2010-09-10T02:58:16 did the bug ever get fixed for two players both sending an illegal move on the last "turn" of the game 2010-09-10T02:58:19 it's very easy to make one 2010-09-10T02:58:20 rank 10 :D 2010-09-10T02:58:27 when i first played around with the engine that was happening 2010-09-10T02:58:28 @ranks 2010-09-10T02:58:29 amstan: Top 10 players: a1k0n(2855), albert(2780), seigen(2771), zaphus(2604), cheese_bot(2548), mistabell(2523), inverselimit(2460), gvsmirnov(2352), phreeza(2340), millertime(2300) 2010-09-10T02:58:34 millertime: congrats 2010-09-10T02:58:45 lol dude.. my bot is practically vanilla 2010-09-10T02:58:55 lol 2010-09-10T02:59:00 How do you win against dualbot on map 26? 2010-09-10T02:59:06 that's how it is... 2010-09-10T02:59:07 i saved that version before trying a bunch of new stuff (that i cant get working) 2010-09-10T02:59:46 * bss03 still just has the stupid bot in the contest. :( 2010-09-10T02:59:51 greghaynes: ew java 2010-09-10T03:00:41 omg the stock java viewer on the website just crushes my browser 2010-09-10T03:00:47 * bss03 is glad the contest lasts until Thanksgiving. 2010-09-10T03:01:01 bss03: it's both good and bad 2010-09-10T03:01:06 bss03: i asked for that, good idea, eh? 2010-09-10T03:01:30 bss03: See my note on http://github.com/stephen-smith/ai-contest-2010/commit/08f06520c218e9b5b6f1ebce854dd2ff92ded748 2010-09-10T03:01:35 amstan: consider doing a largely unofficial/official n-player games tournament a month after? :P 2010-09-10T03:01:39 (I'll be afk now, bye) 2010-09-10T03:01:48 my comp does weird high pitched noises when that java applet is loading 2010-09-10T03:02:04 * blkperl needs ruby installed so he can go beat millertime :) 2010-09-10T03:02:09 antimatroid1: we'll see, write a patch 2010-09-10T03:02:12 amstan: Yeah. 2010-09-10T03:04:23 *** bss03 is now known as bss03-AFK 2010-09-10T03:09:55 contestbot: scheduler repeat rankings 3600 echo [rankings] 2010-09-10T03:09:56 Top 10 players: a1k0n(2876), albert(2804), seigen(2788), zaphus(2633), cheese_bot(2570), mistabell(2544), inverselimit(2481), gvsmirnov(2377), phreeza(2366), pepebotella(2233) 2010-09-10T03:10:20 contestbot: scheduler list 2010-09-10T03:10:20 amstan: rankings: "echo Top 10 players: a1k0n(2876), albert(2804), seigen(2788), zaphus(2633), cheese_bot(2570), mistabell(2544), inverselimit(2481), gvsmirnov(2377), phreeza(2366), pepebotella(2233)" 2010-09-10T03:10:25 darn! 2010-09-10T03:10:27 no 2010-09-10T03:10:35 contestbot: scheduler remove rankings 2010-09-10T03:10:35 amstan: The operation succeeded. 2010-09-10T03:10:41 contestbot: scheduler repeat rankings 3600 "echo [rankings]" 2010-09-10T03:10:42 Top 10 players: a1k0n(2887), albert(2815), seigen(2797), zaphus(2638), cheese_bot(2579), mistabell(2557), inverselimit(2490), gvsmirnov(2387), phreeza(2378), pepebotella(2245) 2010-09-10T03:10:45 contestbot: scheduler list 2010-09-10T03:10:45 amstan: rankings: "echo [rankings]" 2010-09-10T03:10:52 better.. 2010-09-10T03:14:03 *** criis is now known as criisis 2010-09-10T03:17:17 amstan: are you guys going to change the official viewer to the better one any time? 2010-09-10T03:17:36 yes 2010-09-10T03:17:45 tomorrow 2010-09-10T03:20:10 *** ratatata has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-10T03:20:32 it takes awhile to show up on the ranking board I take it? 2010-09-10T03:20:45 oh there we go 2010-09-10T03:21:30 What's needed to get a haskell bot up and running? 2010-09-10T03:21:39 I see one on the scoreboard but nothing in the forum or starters 2010-09-10T03:22:53 *** aerique has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T03:24:57 nevermind. I scrolled up. 2010-09-10T03:26:09 it's better to pre de/increment iterators yeah? 2010-09-10T03:26:20 *** s_denchev has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T03:26:27 in c++* 2010-09-10T03:27:11 antimatroid1: as a rule, yes. Isn't always a win, though. 2010-09-10T03:28:19 do the downloadable started packages have updated engines? 2010-09-10T03:29:23 *** cbeck has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T03:29:42 I think I may find this contest seriously addicting. 2010-09-10T03:30:05 yeah, i'm already behind on other stuff because of it 2010-09-10T03:30:27 i got one and half hours sleep last night too 2010-09-10T03:30:55 never thought i'd use this damn thing, but tgif 2010-09-10T03:31:21 oh, the aus/nz regional acm is tomorrow 2010-09-10T03:34:59 *** philhassey has quit IRC (Quit: philhassey) 2010-09-10T03:38:47 @ranks 2010-09-10T03:38:48 rwa: Top 10 players: a1k0n(2824), albert(2751), seigen(2725), zaphus(2570), cheese_bot(2555), drewrobb(2522), mistabell(2495), vortex(2438), inverselimit(2430), phreeza(2320) 2010-09-10T03:41:44 *** ratatata has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T03:43:45 antimatroid1: where can i find the updated engines to add to my starter package? 2010-09-10T03:44:10 aerique: that's what I want to know :P 2010-09-10T03:44:41 antimatroid1: ha! :) 2010-09-10T03:45:06 you can update your code for conflict resolutions now 2010-09-10T03:45:26 What is the speed fleets travel at? 2010-09-10T03:45:43 Someone should add this to the problem description 2010-09-10T03:45:47 greghaynes: constant 1 velocity with distance being ceil(dist(a,b)) 2010-09-10T03:46:06 Ah, thanks 2010-09-10T03:46:15 if distance is one, your move essentially goes through straight away 2010-09-10T03:46:29 you can't have pi !- pj and d(i,j) = 0 2010-09-10T03:46:31 *** mtcbot has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T03:47:09 well, unless you physically put them in the same place 2010-09-10T03:47:17 but i'm not sure the game engine deals with that very well 2010-09-10T03:49:12 I should probably work on the bot rather than just refresh the rankings page every 5 secs... 2010-09-10T03:49:37 You definitely shouldnt 2010-09-10T03:49:42 ;) 2010-09-10T03:49:52 :) 2010-09-10T03:50:12 Do anyone know which languages will be supported? From the repo (compile_anything.py) i think a lot, but currently only the "starter" ones and Haskell work. 2010-09-10T03:56:27 there working on ruby 2010-09-10T03:57:11 mtcbot: did you have a language in mind you wanted? 2010-09-10T03:57:20 yes, i meant OCaml 2010-09-10T03:57:47 there is already a line with build command in compile_anything.py -- does it mean something? 2010-09-10T03:58:25 I don't know 2010-09-10T04:01:01 with the proposed conflict method, consider this example 2010-09-10T04:01:02 players both send 10 ships to neutral with 30 ships, am I right in saying the proposed method leaves neutral with 20? 2010-09-10T04:01:39 dw, that's fine 2010-09-10T04:01:49 just trying to work out exactly what it's doing 2010-09-10T04:01:52 *** Utkarsh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-09-10T04:03:07 animatroid1: I believe that is what was implemented (or proposed, or whatever) 2010-09-10T04:03:44 whereas the GalCon game would have left Neutral with 10 2010-09-10T04:03:45 yes, that's why i'm playing with it, to start working on my bot properly 2010-09-10T04:04:30 a1k0n is tough to beat 2010-09-10T04:06:41 *** Utkarsh has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T04:08:47 i'm unable to use the pw.Distance() function - causes bot to time out 2010-09-10T04:09:06 also unable to calculate distance myself because planet.X() does the same thing 2010-09-10T04:09:13 almost 70 bots up now 2010-09-10T04:09:30 i know so because i can comment it out and i dont time out 2010-09-10T04:10:43 Top 10 players: a1k0n(2870), albert(2797), seigen(2780), zaphus(2615), cheese_bot(2603), mistabell(2536), vortex(2507), inverselimit(2474), drewrobb(2462), Phate666(2413) 2010-09-10T04:12:43 millertime: what language ? 2010-09-10T04:14:08 millertime: are you doing pw.Distance() inside a loop ? if so you could cache the results because they never change, then just return the actual value 2010-09-10T04:14:51 yes its a for loop 2010-09-10T04:15:08 dependent on the source planet though 2010-09-10T04:15:16 *** otherAntimatroid has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T04:15:37 or are you suggesting i store distance between all planets 2010-09-10T04:15:41 yes 2010-09-10T04:15:43 Yep 2010-09-10T04:15:44 it's not very much 2010-09-10T04:15:52 23^2 2010-09-10T04:15:54 23*22 = under 500 2010-09-10T04:15:55 ? 2010-09-10T04:16:03 alrighty.. 2010-09-10T04:16:07 i can try that 2010-09-10T04:16:20 are you using c++? 2010-09-10T04:16:23 python 2010-09-10T04:16:36 just use a 2-dimensional array 2010-09-10T04:16:44 or does python have my beloved vectors? 2010-09-10T04:16:59 and if thats really slow, then do this: if (cacheddist[x][y] < 0) get pw.Distance(), cache it and use it, else use cached dist and init them to -1 on program boot 2010-09-10T04:17:10 that caches each one the first time you use it 2010-09-10T04:17:42 ahhh not a bad idea 2010-09-10T04:17:53 i wish it wasnt already 1am :( 2010-09-10T04:18:04 it isnt, it's 6:21pm friday night 2010-09-10T04:18:08 :-) 2010-09-10T04:18:13 6:12pl 2010-09-10T04:18:18 argh 6:12pm 2010-09-10T04:18:38 13* :P 2010-09-10T04:19:02 i'm looking forward to some warmer weather 2010-09-10T04:19:25 millertime you on the west coast of US? 2010-09-10T04:19:42 He is 2010-09-10T04:20:09 I see, Portland State 2010-09-10T04:20:12 :) 2010-09-10T04:20:13 Me also 2010-09-10T04:20:41 with my distance *not* working my bot has 0% success rate.. so i hope that changes it... 2010-09-10T04:21:01 millertime: at least you literally can't get any worse :P all up from here 2010-09-10T04:21:05 i simply cannot find a strat that gets me above %60 2010-09-10T04:21:20 above 60% against what? 2010-09-10T04:21:26 the example_bots 2010-09-10T04:21:49 the more i have modified the bot, the worse it has gotten 2010-09-10T04:21:54 the rage bot will probably do that well, except against itself 2010-09-10T04:22:14 but, it's day #1 - you've got some time to think about it and try ideas :-) 2010-09-10T04:22:31 i've been working on it a few days now 2010-09-10T04:22:43 oh, well you're screwed then lol 2010-09-10T04:22:57 millertime: my suggestion is to spend some time playing Galcon and then think about what you're doing and why, if you haven't done that already 2010-09-10T04:23:02 well.. not a few days solid.. just when i get time :P 2010-09-10T04:23:19 it does help to play some galcon, watch the games your bot loses, and think about the mistake it makes 2010-09-10T04:23:25 i do 2010-09-10T04:23:49 ive been mostly struggling to get bugs out lately 2010-09-10T04:23:49 @ranks 2010-09-10T04:23:50 rwa: Top 10 players: a1k0n(2880), albert(2816), seigen(2807), vortex(2654), zaphus(2637), cheese_bot(2624), mistabell(2552), drewrobb(2534), inverselimit(2498), s_denchev(2475) 2010-09-10T04:24:03 one thing I've done is look at the maps it struggles the most on, see what is different about those if I can 2010-09-10T04:24:13 bedtime for me. have fun everybody. 2010-09-10T04:24:14 damn, knocked down to 5th 2010-09-10T04:24:22 heheh... by me 2010-09-10T04:24:36 I lost to some dude called millertime 2010-09-10T04:24:55 a bit lazy to check manually.. does pw.Planets() return the list sorted in ascending order against planetIDs? or just random list? 2010-09-10T04:24:58 yes you did 2010-09-10T04:25:21 I've heard that millertime bot can't even beat the example bots... whats wrong with me ? :-( 2010-09-10T04:25:25 ratatata: i've been sorting the list so i wouldnt know ;) 2010-09-10T04:25:39 Zaphus: 2 different versions bro. 2010-09-10T04:26:03 ratatata: I think it does but I didn't want to depend on that 2010-09-10T04:26:08 you're going against the one that ran well against the examples, a few minutes after i downloaded the package.. 2010-09-10T04:26:36 it was *after* that when i started spiraling down :( 2010-09-10T04:26:44 millertime: you've been going downhill since then eh? 2010-09-10T04:27:01 my first idea has also been my best... 2010-09-10T04:27:31 wasnt an idea, was the sample code lol 2010-09-10T04:27:58 lol 2010-09-10T04:28:00 millertime: what is your strategy doing? 2010-09-10T04:30:10 losing? (sry...) 2010-09-10T04:31:38 Is there an easy way to make the PlayGame.jar show backtraces? 2010-09-10T04:31:51 It should just print out to stdout when running my bot 2010-09-10T04:32:34 I've just tried 5 variants on my magic numbers in my code, none made any difference (locally)... then I realised I was building release and testing the old debug version :-) 2010-09-10T04:33:25 ahhh, i'm curious as to how estimation methods go 2010-09-10T04:33:58 i think i'll keep trying to penetrate analytic advantages 2010-09-10T04:37:41 *** iFire has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T04:37:48 i don't like having to sort 3 integers all the time 2010-09-10T04:37:56 what was the 3 way tie resolution again? 2010-09-10T04:38:09 http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=419#p2416 2010-09-10T04:38:16 the smallest fleet is just ignored? 2010-09-10T04:38:20 yep 2010-09-10T04:39:29 i don't think this is an easy solution at all 2010-09-10T04:40:28 wait, yeah it is 2010-09-10T04:40:28 okay 2010-09-10T04:43:30 Zaphus: so not only are you declaring a 2d array of -1.. but you also have to enumerate the planets, yes? 2010-09-10T04:47:07 *** otherAntimatroid has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-09-10T04:47:49 So your python bot is probably crashing, if you want to get the traceback heres how to be clever (remove this before submitting your bot!) 2010-09-10T04:48:44 bleh, need sleep... bad. 2010-09-10T04:48:48 put the call to Do turn in a try: DoTurn(pw) except: traceback.print_exc(file=sime_file_you_created) 2010-09-10T04:49:14 *** otherAntimatroid has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T04:51:49 *** Zaphus has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-10T04:55:14 @ranks 2010-09-10T04:55:15 ratatata: Top 10 players: a1k0n(2884), albert(2815), seigen(2805), zaphus(2637), drewrobb(2636), cheese_bot(2625), mistabell(2570), vortex(2536), inverselimit(2502), gkisel(2456) 2010-09-10T05:00:09 Go starter kit written and no exploding in any obvious ways, will do a bit more testing in the morning and ship it off wherever it needs to go 2010-09-10T05:03:04 *** Vi0 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T05:04:52 *** kozlovsky has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-10T05:05:46 *** kozlovsky has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T05:10:02 *** rwa has quit IRC (Quit: rwa) 2010-09-10T05:10:44 Top 10 players: a1k0n(2870), albert(2801), seigen(2778), drewrobb(2703), vortex(2637), zaphus(2619), cheese_bot(2611), mistabell(2551), OkirFun(2516), inverselimit(2489) 2010-09-10T05:12:58 *** _Utkarsh <_Utkarsh!~admin@117.201.92.29> has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T05:14:06 *** Utkarsh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-09-10T05:21:21 *** mtcbot has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-10T05:23:25 *** FusionX has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-09-10T05:31:29 *** _Utkarsh is now known as Utkarsh 2010-09-10T05:31:58 *** Utkarsh has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T05:32:12 j3camero: we still don't have no wins/loses/draws for each bot either on the leaderboard or in the profiles :) 2010-09-10T05:37:56 What is the notation for owner of a planet? (0 = unowned?) 2010-09-10T05:38:37 yes and yours are 1 and higher are enemy 2010-09-10T05:38:39 greghaynes: 0 for neutral, 1 owned, 2 enemy 2010-09-10T05:38:48 thanks 2010-09-10T05:38:59 PurplePanda: Hello :) Are you competing? 2010-09-10T05:39:07 PurplePanda: ever encountered PlayerID>2 ? 2010-09-10T05:39:41 hello greghaynes, yes :D user id 3927 2010-09-10T05:40:04 ratatata, no, but I saw some code somewhere that suggested that 3 would be for a second enemy 2010-09-10T05:40:09 can't remember where that was now 2010-09-10T05:40:53 *** zaphus has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T05:41:52 *** zaphus has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2010-09-10T05:41:52 PurplePanda: alright thanks.. I guess I'll wait for my bot to explode before I account for that :) for tournament purposes, its 1v1 I believe 2010-09-10T05:43:17 oh crud 2010-09-10T05:43:52 if a player moves from distance 1 away, on the next move this will be represented inside the planetwars object as having already landed wont it? 2010-09-10T05:44:12 so you can't just update your information based off other players new incoming fleets? 2010-09-10T05:47:53 antimatroid1: yes, I think that fleet will never enter pw.Fleets() [or maybe with 0 distance remaining? haven't checked].. but, that information is quite insignificant 2010-09-10T05:48:11 ratatata: it is for how I was storing data 2010-09-10T05:49:33 antimatroid1: I would test on a custom map then 2010-09-10T05:49:38 well, updating how i store it anyway 2010-09-10T05:49:49 it wont be in fleets 2010-09-10T05:50:09 i wonder if people would be keen for defining distance as ceil(d) + 1 :P 2010-09-10T05:51:26 why the +1 ? 2010-09-10T05:51:41 so d = 1 can't happen :P 2010-09-10T05:51:56 well travel distance 2010-09-10T05:52:38 oh you mean people writing the engine :) 2010-09-10T05:54:27 I like how bots tend to ignore planets with 0 grow rate :) 2010-09-10T05:54:57 Palmik: unless it'd good for position, it's a waste of ships 2010-09-10T05:56:02 we are allowed to rewrite planetwars yeah? 2010-09-10T05:56:31 Usually, unless you want to store some of your ships on a safe place xD But they do not usually take it even if it would mean the would win... well, they win on 30th turn anyway, but 2010-09-10T05:57:28 antimatroid1: I believe so.. also you got me curious about the distance and I checked the source.. there is definitely a check for planets being too close.. but didn't look into it in depth 2010-09-10T05:58:11 the only real problem is if they're in exactly the same spot 2010-09-10T05:58:21 otherwise the ceil function shoots it straight to 1 2010-09-10T06:04:25 Is there a 'setup time' in addition to the 1s turn time limit? 2010-09-10T06:07:40 greghaynes: 'setup time' ? 2010-09-10T06:09:15 Does the 1s limit apply to the first turn also 2010-09-10T06:09:23 yes 2010-09-10T06:09:29 hrmm 2010-09-10T06:10:05 bots can time out in 1st turn.. but there was a talk about it here.. so, might be suspect to change, dunno 2010-09-10T06:10:44 That would open up some interesting options 2010-09-10T06:10:47 Top 10 players: a1k0n(2917), albert(2847), drewrobb(2830), seigen(2820), vortex(2715), zaphus(2667), cheese_bot(2659), mistabell(2594), OkirFun(2538), inverselimit(2535) 2010-09-10T06:11:58 some suggested that, but now that I think of it, I don't think so.. it's highly dynamic.. I'm finding it hard to calculate something that is both static and process heavy 2010-09-10T06:12:07 *** Vi0 has quit IRC () 2010-09-10T06:12:37 Not even relative distances between all planets? 2010-09-10T06:13:24 tested, takes between 1-8ms on java 2010-09-10T06:13:36 wow 2010-09-10T06:13:56 and it would stable if cpu cycles are used instead of time 2010-09-10T06:17:18 *** s_denchev has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-10T06:17:24 *** Vi0 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T06:25:23 *** s_denchev has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T06:29:26 *** mtcbot has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T06:32:30 *** mtcbot has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2010-09-10T06:34:33 *** stef2n has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T06:52:43 *** zaphus has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T06:55:14 *** idevelop has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T06:59:40 is it better to use unsigned integers for for loops with checking vector sizes or just typecast the size result? 2010-09-10T07:01:13 *** JensT1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T07:04:23 antimatroid1: I don't understand what you mean 2010-09-10T07:08:03 for(unsigned int i=0; i or for(int i=0; i<(int)vector.size(); i++)? 2010-09-10T07:10:15 using signed/unsigned makes practically no difference if you don't plan to go above index 2^^31.. I'd suggest using the cleaner and generic one 2010-09-10T07:10:44 Top 10 players: a1k0n(2914), albert(2849), seigen(2817), Adelf32(2810), drewrobb(2800), vortex(2713), zaphus(2678), cheese_bot(2663), rafsoaken(2599), mistabell(2591) 2010-09-10T07:11:00 *** JensT1 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2010-09-10T07:15:39 *** Queue29 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T07:19:18 I can't sign up for the contest! I get: SMTP Error: Data not accepted. "Failed to send confirmation email. Try again in a few minutes" 2010-09-10T07:19:56 uh oh 2010-09-10T07:20:18 worked for me not 15 minutes ago 2010-09-10T07:20:21 give it some space 2010-09-10T07:21:16 I 2010-09-10T07:21:24 Okay, I'll try back later. 2010-09-10T07:21:54 can we change the direction of our fleets after we have issued an order? the real galcon game allows 2010-09-10T07:22:04 No, you can`t 2010-09-10T07:24:22 made it over 100 bots on the server 2010-09-10T07:24:54 *** JensT1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T07:34:44 *** yp has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T07:37:35 *** Zaphus has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T07:39:56 evening all 2010-09-10T07:41:00 evening 2010-09-10T07:41:05 *** Nuriaion has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T07:41:44 hi 2010-09-10T07:42:01 *** mega1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T07:42:04 a bit quiet in here 2010-09-10T07:42:18 it's pretty early in the morning 2010-09-10T07:42:22 and a school/work day 2010-09-10T07:42:41 *** mtcbot has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T07:43:04 I've commit live streaming to the java PlayGame.jar 2010-09-10T07:43:23 Queue29: Thats a matter of opinion... I say it's 9:30pm on a Friday night depends on where you are! 2010-09-10T07:43:36 I've noticed two issues just now on the website: #1 IE still cannot see the forums, #2 Firefox doesnt seem to be able to see the rankings 2010-09-10T07:43:48 6:42 am here :p 2010-09-10T07:43:51 i use scala to develop my bot. 2010-09-10T07:44:12 So for me it would be easiest to directly upload a jar file to the server 2010-09-10T07:44:14 is the signup open now? Im getting ' * Failed to send confirmation email. Try again in a few minutes.' 2010-09-10T07:44:15 Zaphus, the java plugin doesn't even work on my machine, so i can't watch matches 2010-09-10T07:45:10 have somebody thought about accepting jar files and don't compile the bots on the server? 2010-09-10T07:45:30 hi guys 2010-09-10T07:45:31 Queue29: in the visualizer page; change 'visualizer.php' part to 'visualizer_canvas.php' 2010-09-10T07:45:37 Nuriaion, yep: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/detail?id=75 2010-09-10T07:46:03 I am with Firefox but I can see the rankings 2010-09-10T07:46:05 Queue29: Try editing the link name, make it: visualizer_canvas.php and see if that works (leave the rest the same) 2010-09-10T07:46:29 s_denchev: No rankings for me in Firefox 3.6.9 under Win7 (worked last night, but not now) 2010-09-10T07:46:51 3.6.9 on Xp -> everything is fine 2010-09-10T07:47:12 Queue29, thanks 2010-09-10T07:47:14 ratatata, Zaphus, lifesavers, both of you 2010-09-10T07:47:14 but the server is heavy loaded, I must wait a while before seeing any page 2010-09-10T07:47:46 ah, thank Javache and danielvf for coding that :) 2010-09-10T07:48:15 it is time to ask google for scaling :) 2010-09-10T07:48:48 s_denchev: thats not it for me, IE shows the rankings instantly, Firefox never shows them 2010-09-10T08:02:30 *** Vi0 has quit IRC () 2010-09-10T08:06:05 *** yp has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-09-10T08:10:46 Top 10 players: a1k0n(2885), albert(2821), seigen(2791), drewrobb(2753), Adelf32(2730), vortex(2699), zaphus(2649), cheese_bot(2631), Kavish(2611), mistabell(2549) 2010-09-10T08:13:23 *** seigen_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T08:13:39 wow, got busy on that leaderboard 2010-09-10T08:14:23 yep, that's what happens when the floodgates open 2010-09-10T08:15:45 grrrr, submiting without local compilation (at work :( ) is a real pain 2010-09-10T08:16:36 i don't know how you people get stuff up and running so fast 2010-09-10T08:18:30 has anybody successfully uploaded code recently? I have submitted twice in the past hour and neither has shown up as a recent submisssion 2010-09-10T08:19:20 I have uploaded twice 2010-09-10T08:22:01 I wish I could upload code at all :-| 2010-09-10T08:24:28 *** Nuriaion has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-09-10T08:29:45 aerique: you realise registrations are open now right? 2010-09-10T08:29:59 antimatroid1: yeah, but my language isn't supported yet :) 2010-09-10T08:30:12 ahhh, simple fix, use c++ :P 2010-09-10T08:30:26 animatroid1: registration isn't working for me. I get "Failed to send confirmation email. Try again in a few minutes" 2010-09-10T08:30:44 coventry`: it has been doing that, but it also works now and then :) 2010-09-10T08:30:46 have you tried another browser maybe? 2010-09-10T08:31:03 i have no idea about these kind of things 2010-09-10T08:31:12 *** Nuriaion has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T08:31:41 I just set up a script to attempt registration once a minute. It has failed 11 times in a row, so far (not counting the times before that when I attempted it manually.) It's definitely not a browser issue. 2010-09-10T08:32:54 *** otherAntimatroid has left #aichallenge 2010-09-10T08:33:49 perhaps it's because of people doing things like that :P 2010-09-10T08:33:57 and the rush now doors are open 2010-09-10T08:34:18 Once a minute is sane, but I can back off an order of magnitude if you like. 2010-09-10T08:36:15 it's got nothing to do with me :P 2010-09-10T08:37:21 i wish we could look at country/organisation leaderboards now 2010-09-10T08:37:32 and i think they should have them based off the information people provided on sign up 2010-09-10T08:39:05 *** jmreardon has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T08:40:58 antimatroid1: 'Other' would win :) 2010-09-10T08:49:42 is it known whether planet growth will always be between 1 and 5? 2010-09-10T08:50:31 http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=474 2010-09-10T08:50:37 would anyone care to check my logic on that? 2010-09-10T08:50:49 aerique: I wouldn't count on it 2010-09-10T08:52:06 current map generator source does max 5 growth.. but that doesn't mean it will stay like that 2010-09-10T08:52:33 contestbot: where tcpserver 2010-09-10T08:52:33 ratatata: Error: No factoid matches that key. 2010-09-10T08:52:37 alright, thanks. was wondering whether certain limits had officially been fixed 2010-09-10T08:52:47 @where tcpserver 2010-09-10T08:52:47 ratatata: Error: No factoid matches that key. 2010-09-10T08:53:05 help where 2010-09-10T08:53:20 @help where 2010-09-10T08:53:20 ratatata: (where ) -- Alias for "whatis $*". 2010-09-10T08:54:15 *** Queue29 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2010-09-10T08:56:12 anyone want to yay/nay my logic in that post? 2010-09-10T08:58:10 antimatroid1: Its as good as anyone else has managed :-) 2010-09-10T08:58:57 And that's a clear description of the strategic consequences. 2010-09-10T08:58:59 i want to know if it's right :P not how well it compares to others 2010-09-10T09:00:41 i think maybe it was best to just sort f1 and f2 with argmax to start with 2010-09-10T09:00:51 then index that information, but otherwise i think the logic is fine 2010-09-10T09:02:13 the maths looks right, although convoluted :-) noNeutralShips confused me, I thought it meant No Neutral Ships (i.e. 0) 2010-09-10T09:02:26 *** mtcbot has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-10T09:03:07 i'm open to less convoluted solutions :P 2010-09-10T09:03:20 that aren't insanely inefficient 2010-09-10T09:04:26 so are they just hammered over there? 2010-09-10T09:04:36 *** stef2n has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2010-09-10T09:05:13 contestbot: make me a sandwich 2010-09-10T09:05:14 ratatata: Error: "make" is not a valid command. 2010-09-10T09:05:36 contestbot: help 2010-09-10T09:05:36 seigen_: (help [] []) -- This command gives a useful description of what does. is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin. 2010-09-10T09:07:23 I have problems with sign up on the server: "Failed to send confirmation email. Try again in a few minutes" 2010-09-10T09:08:39 Nuriaion: I also can not sign up, due to same error 2010-09-10T09:09:57 patience guys, the organisers are asleep 2010-09-10T09:10:20 ah the different time zones... 2010-09-10T09:10:32 yep, i'm in australia, so it's only 11pm 2010-09-10T09:10:45 Top 10 players: a1k0n(2900), albert(2836), seigen(2805), drewrobb(2780), vortex(2713), zaphus(2667), Adelf32(2640), cheese_bot(2639), dmj111(2586), mistabell(2543) 2010-09-10T09:10:55 a1k0n again, heh 2010-09-10T09:11:17 top2 is 2 day old bot at least 2010-09-10T09:11:49 i wouldn't take much from the leaderboard atm 2010-09-10T09:11:58 nobody has really had time to implement anything major 2010-09-10T09:12:02 btw: if you are having problems registering but want to test your both against other 'better than example' bots, check this out: http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/ 2010-09-10T09:14:24 *** seigen_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-10T09:17:11 *** Utkarsh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-09-10T09:22:24 *** vikhyat has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-09-10T09:23:18 *** smhanov_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T09:26:53 *** smhanov has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2010-09-10T09:27:06 *** Utkarsh has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T09:27:44 so are signups still broken ? 2010-09-10T09:28:26 signups are broken?! 2010-09-10T09:28:30 * jmcarthur just woke up 2010-09-10T09:29:34 morning sir 2010-09-10T09:29:58 thats what people are saying 2010-09-10T09:30:15 there's been ~140 bots for a couple of hours 2010-09-10T09:30:18 jep signups are broken 2010-09-10T09:30:30 that sucks! 2010-09-10T09:30:55 i assume we are reddited already? 2010-09-10T09:31:14 i actually don't see it on proggit 2010-09-10T09:31:24 I'm about to post on Digg, since there's nothing there 2010-09-10T09:31:40 maybe we should wait for signups to work? 2010-09-10T09:31:40 yeah, it's on reddit let me find the link 2010-09-10T09:31:44 ah 2010-09-10T09:31:55 reddit link is in the title of this chatroom 2010-09-10T09:31:56 i posted it to /r/compsci about an hour ago 2010-09-10T09:32:01 oh 2010-09-10T09:32:03 didn't really pick up in proggit 2010-09-10T09:32:14 amstan posted it in /r/programming 2010-09-10T09:32:48 *** Utkarsh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-09-10T09:32:50 yeah i found it 2010-09-10T09:32:59 11 ups and 7 downs... 2010-09-10T09:33:04 i don't understand 2010-09-10T09:33:41 I might as well post on Digg - it's not going to make much difference until it gets dugg up a bit, and by then someone will have fixed the logins, right ? :) 2010-09-10T09:33:48 /r/programming is meh these days 2010-09-10T09:34:01 Zaphus: I'd wait 2010-09-10T09:34:10 Zaphus: is j3camero actually around to do that though? 2010-09-10T09:34:13 *** kozlovsky has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-10T09:34:21 they're asleep 2010-09-10T09:34:32 no idea... it's 11:30pm here, don't know what time it is there 2010-09-10T09:34:33 *** vikhyat has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T09:34:37 probably was a silly time to announce it aha 2010-09-10T09:34:39 there's a couple of them on reddit, this seems to be the official announcement: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/dbyuu/google_ai_challenge_planet_wars_is_now_open/ 2010-09-10T09:35:24 *** kozlovsky has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T09:37:41 i'm not a fan of these artifically inflated scores 2010-09-10T09:37:47 i'd rather they be normalized instead 2010-09-10T09:38:05 say to a range of 0-1000 or something like that 2010-09-10T09:38:30 they just need to subtract about 1000 and it will be approx correct 2010-09-10T09:38:33 yeah, i was just expecting > 0 2010-09-10T09:38:35 actually, 0-999 is nicer to be 2010-09-10T09:38:47 might have more than 1000 bots :P 2010-09-10T09:38:48 no, if it's Elo you need to let it get over 1000 2010-09-10T09:39:05 Zaphus: elo is not a specific range 2010-09-10T09:39:15 yeah true 2010-09-10T09:39:18 *** Utkarsh has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T09:40:00 i'm fine with the top bot getting better simply lowering everybody else's scores, personally 2010-09-10T09:40:27 Zaphus: not a range, but ratios - you will usually find there's a range of about 2000 in good Elo ranking systems, from ~400-~2700 - rarely over 3000 if ever 2010-09-10T09:40:56 why did I write that to myself... must be getting late 2010-09-10T09:40:59 heh 2010-09-10T09:41:11 okay ratios then... that can be worked still 2010-09-10T09:41:37 400pts == 10:1 advantage, approximately 2010-09-10T09:42:17 hmm 2010-09-10T09:43:01 is there a way we could just show the ratio relative to the highest bot? maybe express it as a percentage (0-100)? 2010-09-10T09:43:25 *** mightybyte has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T09:43:53 why would you want to do that ? 2010-09-10T09:44:06 so you know the percentage of people you're ranked higher than 2010-09-10T09:44:15 i think that's actually a pretty decent idea 2010-09-10T09:44:15 and can be done 2010-09-10T09:44:20 *** mtcbot has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T09:44:21 *** Utkarsh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-10T09:44:21 antimatroid1: unfortunately i don't think that's the effect it would have 2010-09-10T09:44:31 we could just do percentiles if we wanted that 2010-09-10T09:44:34 oh, well you could add that anyway - but I like the Elo score, gives me some feeling of 'score' 2010-09-10T09:44:36 which i think might also be nice 2010-09-10T09:44:41 no, elo is good for ranking 2010-09-10T09:44:55 but this then scales it 2010-09-10T09:45:00 it's an ordinal ranking 2010-09-10T09:45:15 this is really just bikeshedding, honestly 2010-09-10T09:45:16 so that doesn't matter 2010-09-10T09:45:24 what's wrong with that? :P 2010-09-10T09:45:27 heh 2010-09-10T09:45:41 I have to bikeshed, none of my coding ideas are working :-) 2010-09-10T09:45:43 i can say with certainty that i don't like just adding 2000 willy nilly like this 2010-09-10T09:45:54 it makes no difference 2010-09-10T09:46:10 no practical difference, but it feels cheap 2010-09-10T09:46:13 but surely you would agree having all greater than 0 is slightly more ideal 2010-09-10T09:46:19 i agree with that 2010-09-10T09:46:21 *unless* 2010-09-10T09:46:34 look at the other end of the ladder too - if you dropped everyone by 1000 it would be more in keeping with every other Elo score I've seen 2010-09-10T09:46:44 unless 0 is guaranteed to be the median 2010-09-10T09:46:52 i don't think it is 2010-09-10T09:46:52 *** Nuriaion_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T09:47:40 no, 0 probably isnt the median - although I actually have no idea what it is either 2010-09-10T09:47:43 i'd rather just not call it elo, especially since we don't even see confidence bounds on the estimate 2010-09-10T09:47:52 *** Nuriaion has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-09-10T09:47:52 *** Nuriaion_ is now known as Nuriaion 2010-09-10T09:48:06 then we can normalize the score to whatever range we choose 2010-09-10T09:48:17 Fixing the scoring system seems like a micro-optimization, compared to fixing the registration process. :-) 2010-09-10T09:48:24 agreed 2010-09-10T09:48:25 yep 2010-09-10T09:48:29 but none of us can do that, can we? 2010-09-10T09:48:30 we're speculating here 2010-09-10T09:48:35 we can't really speculate about that 2010-09-10T09:48:53 Oh, I didn't realize that. 2010-09-10T09:50:20 hmm, so it's a confirmation mail issue 2010-09-10T09:50:23 By my reckoning, it's 9:45am in Waterloo, CA - shouldnt someone be awake ? 2010-09-10T09:51:01 amstan j3camero? 2010-09-10T09:52:08 however, the term hasn't started at Waterloo yet 2010-09-10T09:52:38 give them another few hours then 2010-09-10T09:53:01 they need a batsignal 2010-09-10T09:53:51 i think reddit's bugginess is preventing the submission from showing in the list 2010-09-10T09:53:59 i've had it happen to my own submissions before 2010-09-10T09:54:14 it doesn't even show under "new" 2010-09-10T09:54:14 i think too many people downvoted it 2010-09-10T09:54:21 it would still show 2010-09-10T09:54:22 jmreardon: slackers 2010-09-10T09:54:45 it probably got stuck in the spam filter 2010-09-10T09:54:45 Zaphus? 2010-09-10T09:55:45 jmcarthur: Slack Uni students havent started their term yet :-) 2010-09-10T09:56:01 Zaphus: i think you just sent that to the wrong nick is all 2010-09-10T09:56:31 * jmreardon is a slacker too, in any case 2010-09-10T09:56:45 jmcarthur: nope, jmreardon said they hadnt started term 2010-09-10T09:57:42 ah 2010-09-10T09:57:46 oh woops 2010-09-10T09:58:03 i thought jmreardon was idle. didn't notice :) 2010-09-10T09:58:16 idle slacker :P 2010-09-10T09:58:38 it's not actually listing me as idle, is it? 2010-09-10T09:58:53 nah 2010-09-10T09:58:57 good 2010-09-10T09:59:52 well, it's almost midnight here, I'm calling it a night. I guess I'll hold off the Digg posting for now. Next I need to actually figure out a strategy for the game, before I get knocked too far down the ladder. 2010-09-10T09:59:53 i'm considering a compromise between allowing binaries and not allowing binaries to ease j3camero's inhibitions about it. only allow binaries for approved users. requires adding a column to the database and a little extra code in the compiler script 2010-09-10T10:00:37 and maybe it could even show for one of the existing languages instead of being listed as Binary 2010-09-10T10:00:50 just a thought 2010-09-10T10:01:09 Nice to see the "Starterpack_Dual" bot is holding its place at #41 out of 140 :-) 2010-09-10T10:01:13 wow 2010-09-10T10:02:16 it would be awesome to get the ratings.txt right now while most bots haven't played many games so i can see what their adjusted scored might look like 2010-09-10T10:02:28 the two of them make a nice benchmark (Startpack_Dual, Starterpack_Rage) - if you are below that mark then you need to look at those bots 2010-09-10T10:03:05 heh 2010-09-10T10:03:27 Most bots I've looked at have played quite a few games (30+ I'd say) 2010-09-10T10:05:34 Here's an idea... *if* you wanted a range of scores both above and below zero, then put the zero at one of the benchmark bots, either GalCon, or one of the starters :-) 2010-09-10T10:05:37 I don't think you can fairly allow some people to use binaries and not others 2010-09-10T10:06:36 how are people going with formulating strategies? 2010-09-10T10:06:54 http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/detail?id=99 anybody think of anything bad about this? 2010-09-10T10:06:58 i think i have a decent idea going, might be a while before it's uploadable though 2010-09-10T10:07:05 i could just go ahead and write a patch if not 2010-09-10T10:07:17 *** rwa has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T10:07:20 yeah mine is not uploadable for a while either 2010-09-10T10:07:38 especially if it's decided that binaries will not be allowed 2010-09-10T10:07:50 because then i will have to rewrite for ghc 6.8.2... 2010-09-10T10:08:05 jmcarthur: re: ratings.txt If you were going to make it accessable, why wouldnt you just make a webpage showing the info ? 2010-09-10T10:08:33 Zaphus: i've argued for more information on the rankings page too. i think people just don't want it to be noisy. i understand that 2010-09-10T10:09:03 jmcarthur: Two pages then, have a link "Detailed Ratings" on teh default one 2010-09-10T10:09:08 wo could 2010-09-10T10:09:10 *we could 2010-09-10T10:09:41 there's 143 bots up now 2010-09-10T10:09:52 ok, midnight, time for sleep. hope the logins get sorted soon and the numbers keep going up ! 2010-09-10T10:09:55 it would certainly be more work than just putting ratings.txt somewhere though 2010-09-10T10:10:04 america has an early lead 2010-09-10T10:10:08 we can't have that 2010-09-10T10:10:35 antimatroid1: are the signups working again, or did some bots just finally get their first games ? 2010-09-10T10:10:44 not sure 2010-09-10T10:10:56 An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information. 2010-09-10T10:10:58 just openly commenting on my observation 2010-09-10T10:11:51 why did contestbot do that? 2010-09-10T10:12:01 not sure 2010-09-10T10:12:06 err 2010-09-10T10:12:09 okay 2010-09-10T10:12:32 help not 2010-09-10T10:12:43 I guess contestbot is going emo once again 2010-09-10T10:13:22 @rank 2010-09-10T10:13:22 jmcarthur: Error: The command "rank" is available in the Alias, ChannelStats, and Factoids plugins. Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "rank". 2010-09-10T10:13:28 it was an alias... 2010-09-10T10:13:31 @rankings 2010-09-10T10:13:32 jmcarthur: Top 10 players: a1k0n(2896), albert(2837), seigen(2806), drewrobb(2742), vortex(2719), dmj111(2709), zaphus(2664), Adelf32(2646), cheese_bot(2640), mistabell(2540) 2010-09-10T10:13:46 @alias add rank rankings 2010-09-10T10:13:46 jmcarthur: The operation succeeded. 2010-09-10T10:13:49 @alias add ranks rankings 2010-09-10T10:13:49 jmcarthur: The operation succeeded. 2010-09-10T10:13:52 @alias add ranking rankings 2010-09-10T10:13:52 jmcarthur: The operation succeeded. 2010-09-10T10:15:23 *** Zaphus has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-10T10:16:51 is the visualizer hosed for anybody else when clicking through from the rankings list? 2010-09-10T10:19:54 rwa: both visualizer's are working for me 2010-09-10T10:21:05 i sometimes have to refresh the java viz to get it to work 2010-09-10T10:21:17 just playing some epic game sending fleets of 4K+ sjips xD 2010-09-10T10:21:29 *ships 2010-09-10T10:22:03 8K+ man... 2010-09-10T10:22:06 is there or will the be a viz link for that Palmik ? 2010-09-10T10:22:11 *there 2010-09-10T10:23:04 there will... just do not anticipate any super strategy, because as you could see from my rating, my bot is quite lame xD http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284128059 2010-09-10T10:23:22 heh 2010-09-10T10:23:50 those ridiculous numbers were because of my lame "select target planet" algorithm xD 2010-09-10T10:24:29 LOL 2010-09-10T10:24:32 that is awesome 2010-09-10T10:25:09 i like how this game is not very prone to draws 2010-09-10T10:27:16 What about RageBot.jar on map 26? 2010-09-10T10:27:55 icefox, hmm... what is so specific about that map? (Sadly, i do know them from ym head xD) 2010-09-10T10:28:02 does it usually tie on that map? 2010-09-10T10:28:09 i only said "not prone to" :P 2010-09-10T10:28:09 mine does 2010-09-10T10:28:18 it beats mine current code fast 2010-09-10T10:28:19 i best most bots don't 2010-09-10T10:28:40 Either I get a draw or lose 2010-09-10T10:29:00 atm it is the only map combo out of the 500 I fail 2010-09-10T10:29:44 waitaminute. i didn't notice this before. why are the + and - scores the same? http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=4MvZSfJw 2010-09-10T10:30:01 they should be different, shouldn't they? 2010-09-10T10:30:09 wtf i'm still in the lead? 2010-09-10T10:30:14 that's old 2010-09-10T10:30:23 but you are :) 2010-09-10T10:30:38 benzedrine can now host more than one game I see... or was that from the start? 2010-09-10T10:30:50 benzedrine actually has different values for + and - 2010-09-10T10:30:53 but the official doesn't 2010-09-10T10:31:02 something is wrong 2010-09-10T10:31:03 Palmik: it can host lots of games, since the contestants are the ones running their bots 2010-09-10T10:31:28 jmcarthur: is the bayeselo output available on the site? 2010-09-10T10:31:36 not recently 2010-09-10T10:31:44 a1k0n, I know... but they comunicate through server, and before I did not see more then one game running, perhaps because of the low population 2010-09-10T10:31:50 a1k0n: i have put up an issue to host ratings.txt publicly 2010-09-10T10:32:22 all i can do right now is compare http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=4MvZSfJw to http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/getratings 2010-09-10T10:33:39 don't know how i didn't notice that before 2010-09-10T10:34:24 http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284128689 :D 2010-09-10T10:34:44 i wonder if the reason for it is this exactdist line that's commented out here: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/source/browse/trunk/planet_wars/backend/readgames.py 2010-09-10T10:35:02 *** rwa has quit IRC (Quit: rwa) 2010-09-10T10:35:36 *** Nuriaion has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2010-09-10T10:36:52 it kind of breaks my adjustment patch if the lower bound is wrong 2010-09-10T10:37:44 i wonder about the asymmetry on benzedrine.cx 2010-09-10T10:38:21 but i guess perfect symmetry is more suspect unless it's using a gaussian estimation 2010-09-10T10:38:44 i know for sure that the assymmetry is intended 2010-09-10T10:39:03 does bayeselo do gibbs sampling or how does it work? 2010-09-10T10:39:05 for example, the top bot doesn't play bots better than it, so its + should probably be higher than its - after a while 2010-09-10T10:39:32 although it's actually the other way on benzen 2010-09-10T10:39:34 *** Utkarsh has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T10:39:37 *benzed 2010-09-10T10:39:40 hmm 2010-09-10T10:39:58 a1k0n: http://www.stat.psu.edu/~dhunter/papers/bt.pdf 2010-09-10T10:40:27 oh it's just maximum likelihood 2010-09-10T10:40:43 so the error bars come from the derivative no doubt 2010-09-10T10:40:58 Palmik: that game was awesome (1284128059).. at some point, victory is guaranteed bot the bot simply tortures :P 2010-09-10T10:41:00 (2nd derivative about the mode) 2010-09-10T10:41:25 *** Nuriaion has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T10:42:18 http://kaggle.com/chess?viewtype=leaderboard 2010-09-10T10:42:30 something interesting may come out of this 2010-09-10T10:43:11 hah, awesome 2010-09-10T10:43:46 that's cool 2010-09-10T10:44:01 ratatata, yeah :D 2010-09-10T10:44:31 hmm... 2010-09-10T10:44:57 the strategy i have in mind for my bot is likely to torture its opponent if it's guaranteed to win 2010-09-10T10:45:43 i guess i will just have a rude bot 2010-09-10T10:46:12 well the code has a bunch of matrix stuff in it, so i'm guessing it's using the hessian 2010-09-10T10:46:27 in which case i'm not sure how it gets the asymmetric results 2010-09-10T10:46:47 unless it's reprojecting from log space or something 2010-09-10T10:47:31 *** Nuriaion has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-09-10T10:48:50 veloLower[i] = veloUpper[i] = x * std::sqrt(vVariance[i]); 2010-09-10T10:49:22 where x is the position on the normal curve CDF where p=0.95 2010-09-10T10:49:42 *** Vi0 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T10:49:51 so in this version of bayeselo, at any rate, it looks like + and - are the same 2010-09-10T10:50:10 *** Utkarsh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-09-10T10:50:48 ahha, but it can also use a different algorithm 2010-09-10T10:51:18 *** hornairs has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T10:51:39 it looks like bayeselo has like 50 options and they're probably just set different between the two servers 2010-09-10T10:52:16 quick question: would running bots have access to the net? ie for the ProxyBot idea? 2010-09-10T10:52:18 and it's basically undocumented as far as i can tell 2010-09-10T10:52:29 hornairs: not on the contest server, no 2010-09-10T10:53:06 a1k0n did you see that thread in the forum about ProxyBot? Would it only be useful for testing and not durign the actual contest? 2010-09-10T10:54:04 *** Nuriaion has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T10:55:39 *** Utkarsh has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T10:56:06 hornairs: it's not for the actual contest 2010-09-10T10:56:07 hornairs: yeah. so you have a bot that runs in a persistent environment (like a lisp image) and a proxybot that just connects to it when you run it under the engine 2010-09-10T10:56:23 hornairs: it's indeed for local development and testing 2010-09-10T10:56:30 a1k0n: ah, then it's probably fine as it is 2010-09-10T10:56:47 aerique ah i see, neat idea 2010-09-10T10:57:22 canada boys should be up 2010-09-10T10:57:38 hornairs: in my bot network code doesn't even get compiled when compiling for submission 2010-09-10T10:58:22 *** rwa has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T10:58:34 a couple bots disappeared from rankings.. how does that happen? 2010-09-10T10:58:46 aerique i see, i'm way more familiar with interpreted languages so i don't think i share your pain as much but i can see why you would want to set it up that way 2010-09-10T10:59:04 though for this it might be worth diving into something faster 2010-09-10T10:59:08 ratatata: if you resubmit you disappear until games have been run 2010-09-10T10:59:38 a1k0n: I see, ty 2010-09-10T11:01:18 right, i need to check out of those other visualizers. i've been waiting for almost 10 minutes now for ShowGame.jar to show the game. 2010-09-10T11:02:25 aerique: just change visualizer.php to visualizer_canvas.php in the url 2010-09-10T11:02:59 aerique: get an updated starter pack.. i made showgame not so terrible 2010-09-10T11:03:01 *** Utkarsh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-09-10T11:03:36 *** alex79 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T11:03:42 the first version of showgame took O(N^2) time to read an N-byte input on stdin 2010-09-10T11:04:01 *** kozlovsky has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-10T11:04:09 (with a very large constant factor i might add) 2010-09-10T11:04:09 oh i thought aerique was talking about on the web site. by bad 2010-09-10T11:04:32 a1k0n: great, thanks 2010-09-10T11:04:35 *my bad, even 2010-09-10T11:04:49 gah, i'm not sure if i have the new one or not 2010-09-10T11:04:55 i downloadded it less than a day ago 2010-09-10T11:05:06 it was updated late last night 2010-09-10T11:05:17 well, US time 2010-09-10T11:05:40 i am contemplating rewriting most of planetwars object, i like the communist programming approach 2010-09-10T11:05:46 everything is public! 2010-09-10T11:05:55 a1k0n: Wow, that ShowGame improvement is a big help. 2010-09-10T11:05:56 me too. private is just annoying. 2010-09-10T11:06:18 mightybyte: i thought so. PlayGame is also much faster. 2010-09-10T11:06:34 *** Utkarsh has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T11:06:39 Excellent 2010-09-10T11:06:48 with limited debug ability like this, I'm pretty much tossing everything public 2010-09-10T11:07:16 I have to say I don't like the visualizer where the motion is shown as continuous rather than in discrete steps as the game actually occurs. Makes it harder to see what's going on/debug, etc. 2010-09-10T11:07:38 that's what stepping is for anyway, IMO 2010-09-10T11:07:41 rwa: seems fine to me going back throgh it 2010-09-10T11:07:50 was about to say the same thing 2010-09-10T11:07:51 although, i wish the stepping actually animated the step 2010-09-10T11:08:03 that would actually make it *easier* for me to follow 2010-09-10T11:08:15 Hey, I see some Haskell entries. That's encouraging. 2010-09-10T11:08:21 i expect it to just get harder to understand wtf they're doing 2010-09-10T11:08:23 does registration work yet? 2010-09-10T11:08:30 doubt it 2010-09-10T11:08:47 i think it's going to need someone to prod something 2010-09-10T11:09:26 mightybyte: you asked yesterday what i wanted to do that ghc 6.8.2 couldn't provide and i never answered... 2010-09-10T11:09:34 jmcarthur: Ahh, yes. 2010-09-10T11:09:42 whoa yeah, much faster 2010-09-10T11:09:43 mightybyte: basically i just hate being limited. i like type families. i like vector. i like speed 2010-09-10T11:10:17 jmcarthur: What do you need type families for? 2010-09-10T11:10:28 mightybyte: vector, for one 2010-09-10T11:10:40 jmcarthur: Yeah. Those I'll give you. 2010-09-10T11:10:56 An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information. 2010-09-10T11:11:21 mightybyte: i also have a habit of writing combinators that are designed to fuse well, and 6.8.2 just doesn't handle that well. i like to write for performance 2010-09-10T11:11:47 jmcarthur: Right, but that alone shouldn't preclude 6.8.2 2010-09-10T11:11:54 no, certainly not 2010-09-10T11:12:15 in the last one i just had all kinds of problems. things wouldn't build, etc. stuff that was stupid 2010-09-10T11:13:24 jmcarthur: when you say vector, do you mean list/scheme type vectors? (not java vectors I assume?) 2010-09-10T11:13:33 *lisp/scheme 2010-09-10T11:13:38 ratatata: i mean the "vector" package 2010-09-10T11:13:56 ratatata: i'm not sure of the difference between those vectors you mentioned 2010-09-10T11:14:23 there are list-like vectors and array-like vectors (and usually separately are things like linear algebra vectors) 2010-09-10T11:14:33 the vector package is array-like 2010-09-10T11:14:49 I don't know about the package.. scheme type vector is pretty much the same as an array.. O(n) access 2010-09-10T11:15:17 this is O(1) access 2010-09-10T11:15:28 java vector is a wrapper around an array with methods similar to list using array as internal storage.. afaik 2010-09-10T11:15:31 well, O(1) lookup, i should say 2010-09-10T11:15:40 jmcarthur: sorry... I meant O(1) 2010-09-10T11:16:23 ratatata: vector provides purely functional arrays but uses fancy fusion and stuff to avoid creating intermediate arrays 2010-09-10T11:16:36 ratatata: and actually uses mutation for a lot of things 2010-09-10T11:16:43 ratatata: it also provides some mutable arrays too 2010-09-10T11:17:01 jmcarthur: So is vector strictly preferrable to any of the Data.Array.*? 2010-09-10T11:17:33 mightybyte: it lacks the ability to index on an arbitrary Ix i => i 2010-09-10T11:17:41 so not "strictly" 2010-09-10T11:18:00 jmcarthur: Ahhh, yes. 2010-09-10T11:18:04 mightybyte: but it provides a lot of nice functionality that you'd never get from Data.Array, like list-like functions and stuff 2010-09-10T11:18:51 they would be too inefficient with Data.Array because it would have to construct intermediate arrays all the time 2010-09-10T11:19:01 when you compose them, that is 2010-09-10T11:19:05 *** aerique has quit IRC (Quit: ...) 2010-09-10T11:19:27 Do you think that the now best bots will improve drastically since now up until the end of the competition? 2010-09-10T11:19:40 Palmik: yes, they will improve all the way to the end 2010-09-10T11:19:46 if the last contest is any indication 2010-09-10T11:20:08 jmcarthur: array-heavy applications are one area where I typically still shy away from Haskell. I need to bite the bullet and get some experience using the best-practices libraries. 2010-09-10T11:20:39 mightybyte: i tend to use vector or IntMap for most of those applications, for the record 2010-09-10T11:21:28 IntMap for when i need that free undo or for "sparse arrays" 2010-09-10T11:21:36 although sparse arrays can be emulated with arrays, too 2010-09-10T11:21:52 Yeah 2010-09-10T11:22:12 IntMap was integral to my game tree search in the last contest 2010-09-10T11:22:36 Ok 2010-09-10T11:22:59 I probably should have done the last contest in Haskell just for the practice. 2010-09-10T11:23:18 But I doubt I would have placed as high. 2010-09-10T11:23:21 you did pretty well with C++ didn't you? 2010-09-10T11:23:25 yeah 2010-09-10T11:23:27 Yeah 2010-09-10T11:23:29 10th 2010-09-10T11:23:37 i would have placed higher if i had just had the stinking time to finish 2010-09-10T11:23:41 but work got in the way 2010-09-10T11:23:57 the bot that made it into the final tournament was very incomplete :( 2010-09-10T11:24:47 my bot this year will be kind of efficiency-critical, so i really really want to avoid ghc 6.8.2 2010-09-10T11:24:56 Ahhh. 2010-09-10T11:25:03 i'm currently building it with ghc head because it has some really nice inlining changes 2010-09-10T11:25:12 I was thinking this contest is much less in need of peak efficiency. 2010-09-10T11:25:19 well, not for me :) 2010-09-10T11:25:21 jmcarthur: how much better did you tron bot get after the competition? 2010-09-10T11:25:23 heh 2010-09-10T11:25:28 (i'm not doing game tree search, btw) 2010-09-10T11:25:37 Yeah, I didn't expect you were. 2010-09-10T11:25:48 don't utter utc here, please 2010-09-10T11:25:53 mega1: i stopped working on it, but i think i could have placed in the top 30-50 easily, instead of being 105th 2010-09-10T11:26:02 mega1: utc? 2010-09-10T11:26:08 i'm not doing utc :P 2010-09-10T11:26:15 mightybyte: UTC was my algorithm for tron 2010-09-10T11:26:15 I'm confused about how I get ranked 7th by loosing twice 2010-09-10T11:26:21 uct 2010-09-10T11:26:26 lol 2010-09-10T11:26:28 uct yes 2010-09-10T11:26:31 you threw me off 2010-09-10T11:26:39 Wait, what does that stand for again? 2010-09-10T11:26:57 nothing, forget it 2010-09-10T11:27:14 upper confidence bounds applied to trees 2010-09-10T11:27:18 are registrations working? 2010-09-10T11:27:21 Ahh, yes. 2010-09-10T11:27:22 there are 147 bots up 2010-09-10T11:27:55 *** hornairs has quit IRC (Quit: hornairs) 2010-09-10T11:28:40 mightybyte: basically monte carlo with a particular algorithm for focusing on paths that seem to do well without ignoring other possibilities. has some statistical properties that make it nice 2010-09-10T11:29:03 jmcarthur: Yeah, I remember now. Just couldn't remember what uct stood for. 2010-09-10T11:29:23 mega1: is that what you did for tron? 2010-09-10T11:29:58 a1k0n: what I had in mind and also what I gave up on 2010-09-10T11:30:04 heh 2010-09-10T11:30:14 i was making a number of improvements to the core of my algorithm regarding efficiency and some constants, and i was also going to adapt the uct algorithm to something more simulataneous-play friendly 2010-09-10T11:30:58 i had made some progress on all three fronts, but didn't get a chance to upload the last version of my bot, and i didn't really *finish* any of those goals 2010-09-10T11:32:01 *** flaran has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T11:32:17 Oh hi. 2010-09-10T11:32:50 any opinions yet on whether planetwars is an interesting problem? 2010-09-10T11:33:23 I feel like any problem that doesn't have a clear most efficient solution is interesting in a way 2010-09-10T11:33:24 so far i think it is 2010-09-10T11:33:36 *** vikhyat has left #aichallenge ("Leaving") 2010-09-10T11:34:32 at first i wasn't sure, but i'm convinced now that the game has enough going on that we can get some very interesting bots 2010-09-10T11:34:34 *** vikhyat has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T11:34:52 I hope to see some diversity in the algos. 2010-09-10T11:35:03 i think we will see a lot of diversity 2010-09-10T11:35:03 I guess that can be a social problem. 2010-09-10T11:35:18 especially since there isn't an obviously best approach 2010-09-10T11:35:36 I think there is potential for the top bots to converge on an optimal strategy, but by no means is that a forgone conclusion. 2010-09-10T11:35:40 too much cross pollination and all that 2010-09-10T11:35:51 mightybyte: i think that is destined even for the most complex of problems 2010-09-10T11:36:10 Well there is an obvious first approach 2010-09-10T11:36:11 mightybyte: but i think that would happen even if the strategy is very suboptimal 2010-09-10T11:36:17 Of course, but I think it's within the realm of possibility to actually happen in this contest. 2010-09-10T11:36:50 i still don't believe that minimax was a great approach to tron 2010-09-10T11:36:56 yet all the top bots used it 2010-09-10T11:36:58 well, that's assuming that we will find a single optimal strategy 2010-09-10T11:37:01 ...which would not be the case for something like chess or dots-and-boxes. 2010-09-10T11:37:07 i guess i'm not one to talk since i didn't get to the top though 2010-09-10T11:37:21 flaran: Yes, I did say "potential". 2010-09-10T11:37:43 i think what will happen is we will settle on a local maxima 2010-09-10T11:38:07 I'm not sure how big the inherent randomness of the game is. 2010-09-10T11:38:12 mightybyte: true, didn't catch that :) -- I have an odd feeling we'll see a good bit of variation though 2010-09-10T11:38:46 mega1: the engine should be deterministic, shouldn't it? or are you talking about whether good strategies will involve a lot of randomness? 2010-09-10T11:39:28 *** pingu has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T11:39:40 jmcarthur: just wondering whether the outcome of a game between two good players is mostly determined by chance 2010-09-10T11:40:12 is it like football (soccer) where there is a lot of randomness? 2010-09-10T11:40:47 or is it more like basketball (which is a bit less so 2010-09-10T11:40:49 )? 2010-09-10T11:41:49 *** Utkarsh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2010-09-10T11:42:41 mega1: so far that does not appear to have been the case 2010-09-10T11:43:00 I looked at a1k0n's lost games. 2010-09-10T11:43:01 but we don't have great bots yet 2010-09-10T11:43:12 yeah, the bots are too dumb right now for any kind of consistent results 2010-09-10T11:43:13 That was my impression. 2010-09-10T11:43:21 I still can't sign up... 2010-09-10T11:43:39 some bots utterly destroy others on certain maps, and get destroyed by the same bots on other maps 2010-09-10T11:43:39 It seems registration is broken. 2010-09-10T11:43:49 my bot actually prefers to be player 2 which is probably a bug 2010-09-10T11:43:55 heh 2010-09-10T11:43:56 flaran: yeah, email gateway problem? 2010-09-10T11:44:00 *** rwa has quit IRC (Quit: rwa) 2010-09-10T11:44:27 as soon as amstan wakes up we will hound him mercilessly 2010-09-10T11:45:07 @tell amstan registration is broke! 2010-09-10T11:45:17 umm 2010-09-10T11:45:30 a1k0n: Yeah, some of the strategies I've thought of definitely would be inappropriate on certain maps. 2010-09-10T11:45:33 @help 2010-09-10T11:45:33 jmcarthur: (help [] []) -- This command gives a useful description of what does. is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin. 2010-09-10T11:45:37 @help tell 2010-09-10T11:45:37 jmcarthur: (tell ) -- Tells the whatever is. Use nested commands to your benefit here. 2010-09-10T11:45:56 a1k0n: Apparently. 2010-09-10T11:46:02 *** s_denchev has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-10T11:46:12 @help later 2010-09-10T11:46:12 jmcarthur: Error: There is no command "later". 2010-09-10T11:46:38 err 2010-09-10T11:46:45 @help list 2010-09-10T11:46:45 PurplePanda: (list [--private] []) -- Lists the commands available in the given plugin. If no plugin is given, lists the public plugins available. If --private is given, lists the private plugins. 2010-09-10T11:46:52 @later tell amstan registration is broken! 2010-09-10T11:46:53 jmcarthur: The operation succeeded. 2010-09-10T11:47:01 stupid bot doesn't have @later documented 2010-09-10T11:48:31 Yeah. It says "SMTP Error: Data not accepted" 2010-09-10T11:48:51 contestbot: list 2010-09-10T11:48:51 seigen: AIChallenge, Admin, Alias, BadWords, Channel, ChannelLogger, ChannelStats, Config, Ctcp, Dict, Dunno, Factoids, Filter, Format, Games, Google, Herald, Internet, Later, Limiter, Math, Misc, Network, News, Note, Owner, Plugin, Quote, QuoteGrabs, RSS, Reply, Scheduler, Seen, Services, ShrinkUrl, Status, String, Success, Time, Todo, Topic, URL, Unix, User, Utilities, and Web 2010-09-10T11:49:02 @pl \x -> f x a b c d e 2010-09-10T11:49:03 mightybyte: Error: "pl" is not a valid command. 2010-09-10T11:49:07 contestbot: list AIChallenge 2010-09-10T11:49:07 seigen: game, match, and rankings 2010-09-10T11:49:19 i think it has become very apparent that early game is extremely critical 2010-09-10T11:49:21 contestbot: match 2010-09-10T11:49:22 seigen: (match player1 [player2]) -- Get the most recent match of $player1. If $player2 is specified, then the most recent match between $player1 and $player2 2010-09-10T11:49:30 contestbot: match seigen 2010-09-10T11:49:31 seigen: (match player1 [player2]) -- Get the most recent match of $player1. If $player2 is specified, then the most recent match between $player1 and $player2 2010-09-10T11:49:31 mightybyte: contestbot is not lambdabot :( 2010-09-10T11:50:04 contestbot: rankings 2010-09-10T11:50:05 seigen: Top 10 players: a1k0n(2881), albert(2824), seigen(2790), drewrobb(2733), dmj111(2729), vortex(2670), zaphus(2649), Adelf32(2629), cheese_bot(2626), mistabell(2536) 2010-09-10T11:50:07 jmcarthur: I thought you had lambdabot here. 2010-09-10T11:51:09 mightybyte: i did, but amstan wanted contestbot to have the @command syntax, so i pull LB out 2010-09-10T11:51:13 *pulled 2010-09-10T11:51:19 damn 2010-09-10T11:51:26 Ahh 2010-09-10T11:51:31 what version of python are you guy's running? 2010-09-10T11:51:37 2.5, i think. 2010-09-10T11:51:41 JensT1: the server has 2.5 2010-09-10T11:51:54 :( 2010-09-10T11:51:59 yeah 2010-09-10T11:52:03 i feel your pain 2010-09-10T11:52:04 I need a decent fifo for python 2010-09-10T11:52:09 I'm over my 1second limit 2010-09-10T11:52:09 Too bad. We could unleash all kinds of esoteric strangeness. :) 2010-09-10T11:52:29 have to write one myself then 2010-09-10T11:52:43 mightybyte: personally i was happier with contestbot just doing rankings and other contest-specific tasks and using lambdabot for all other things 2010-09-10T11:52:51 We should open an issue for switching the servers to arch linux. :) 2010-09-10T11:52:58 heh 2010-09-10T11:53:10 that would certainly solve our version woes ;) 2010-09-10T11:53:17 but so would just dist-upgrading 2010-09-10T11:53:17 Yep 2010-09-10T11:54:19 are the compiler versions documented somewhere? 2010-09-10T11:57:05 or at least which distribution and version it is 2010-09-10T11:57:51 Are rating on the website broken again? 2010-09-10T11:58:17 bss03-AFK: in what way? 2010-09-10T11:58:33 *** pingu has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-10T11:59:46 *** bss03-AFK is now known as bss03 2010-09-10T11:59:56 Um, It doesn't display anything. 2010-09-10T12:00:13 I get the top navigation buttons, then immediately the bottom naviagation buttons. 2010-09-10T12:00:16 No table in the middle. 2010-09-10T12:01:03 weird 2010-09-10T12:01:05 works for me 2010-09-10T12:01:40 I hoped that they got more iron. 2010-09-10T12:01:59 it was a bummer to play on mini maps last time around 2010-09-10T12:02:22 i just realied something that's missing from the last contest 2010-09-10T12:02:28 Firefox/Iceweasel 3.5.11 2010-09-10T12:02:38 in the last contest, contestants had little graphs showing their rank over time 2010-09-10T12:02:42 that was nice 2010-09-10T12:02:49 *realized 2010-09-10T12:03:31 it would also be nice to plot the total number of units and the total rate of growth each player has over a game 2010-09-10T12:03:53 Hrm, I think AdBlock PLus screws the rankings up. :/ 2010-09-10T12:04:20 *** mtcbot has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-10T12:04:38 mega1: the new viz already does that 2010-09-10T12:04:45 mega1: well, total units for each player, anyway 2010-09-10T12:04:46 oh 2010-09-10T12:04:48 *** seigen has quit IRC (Quit: back to real work :() 2010-09-10T12:05:10 jmcarthur, is that you the HaskellTest1 bot? :) 2010-09-10T12:05:15 mega1: http://ai-contest.com/visualizer_canvas.php?game_id=4426649 2010-09-10T12:05:17 Palmik: no 2010-09-10T12:05:25 Palmik: i will appear as jmcarthur once i submit a bot 2010-09-10T12:05:54 mega1: the graph is underneath it 2010-09-10T12:06:47 when dhartmei wakes up we should get benzedrine.cx's engine into spec today 2010-09-10T12:06:50 maybe i'll work on a patch 2010-09-10T12:07:57 lol http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=484 2010-09-10T12:10:47 Top 10 players: a1k0n(2879), albert(2823), seigen(2789), drewrobb(2709), dmj111(2694), vortex(2665), zaphus(2650), cheese_bot(2625), FlagCapper(2623), Adelf32(2601) 2010-09-10T12:11:36 There seems to be emphasis by folks on winning FAST. Is there no love for the slow game? 2010-09-10T12:12:15 Game is over in 200 turns. 2010-09-10T12:12:36 Plus, because of the pop growth stuff, an early lead just gets wider. 2010-09-10T12:12:39 you gotta grab land before your opponent does 2010-09-10T12:13:01 sorry-- didn't realize game only lasted 200 turns in comp 2010-09-10T12:13:05 that makes a lot more sense now 2010-09-10T12:13:47 the early game is the most important, i think 2010-09-10T12:14:10 i'm inclined to think that 200 turns is okay for now, but once more bots get good we might have to lengthen it 2010-09-10T12:14:33 two good bots against each other will probably have a long early game 2010-09-10T12:14:53 how are ties broken? is there a good link on how the process works on the judge-server end? 2010-09-10T12:15:03 flaran: they aren't broken. they are declared as draws 2010-09-10T12:15:19 flaran: you can look into bayeselo if you want to know how scoring works 2010-09-10T12:15:29 the backend just uses it 2010-09-10T12:16:58 is anyone running ubuntu here? 2010-09-10T12:17:22 *** mtcbot has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T12:17:27 yes, why? 2010-09-10T12:17:27 a1k0n: i have an installation of ubuntu server 8.04 in a vm that i was using to try to get a recent ghc working on it 2010-09-10T12:17:48 http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=470 2010-09-10T12:18:00 new jars apparently don't work? 2010-09-10T12:18:07 hmm 2010-09-10T12:18:08 works fine for me on os x and redhat 2010-09-10T12:18:24 Working fine for me on ubuntu. 2010-09-10T12:18:24 i haven't tried them yet 2010-09-10T12:18:42 hold on 2010-09-10T12:19:02 Wow, they start slow at UW. 2010-09-10T12:19:03 jmcarthur: I see. It could show the current time as well on that graph. 2010-09-10T12:19:21 mega1: i think there is an effort to get a line to move through it as the game progresses 2010-09-10T12:20:09 I just ran it and got identical results to the original two 2010-09-10T12:20:30 lemme try it on my arch machine. gotta download first 2010-09-10T12:20:42 a1k0n: so maybe it has to do with someone's particular software setup? 2010-09-10T12:21:03 seems that way, not sure what the details are. java version maybe? 2010-09-10T12:21:50 hey 2010-09-10T12:21:56 *** tapwater has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T12:21:59 no makefile in the java starter kit? 2010-09-10T12:22:01 amstan: hey. emails for regs aren't getting sent 2010-09-10T12:22:12 and in fact reg just fails hard 2010-09-10T12:22:12 or for compiler errors 2010-09-10T12:22:31 ... 2010-09-10T12:22:43 i have no idea what j3camero did 2010-09-10T12:22:57 amstan: SMTP Error: Data not accepted." 2010-09-10T12:22:58 he has this weird php file that sends emails 2010-09-10T12:23:06 is it in the source tree? 2010-09-10T12:23:10 yeah 2010-09-10T12:23:17 gmail.php 2010-09-10T12:23:19 in www/ 2010-09-10T12:23:25 oh right 2010-09-10T12:23:36 but even if someone fixes it, i don't have any access to change it 2010-09-10T12:23:48 ?! 2010-09-10T12:23:56 yeah.. tell me about it 2010-09-10T12:23:58 well what good are you, geez 2010-09-10T12:24:09 i can give software versions to ppl, lol 2010-09-10T12:24:23 are there javadocs for the PlanetWars class? 2010-09-10T12:24:40 that's pretty lame though. let's start a contest, and then leave someone in charge powerless to fix it 2010-09-10T12:24:56 *** flaran has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-09-10T12:24:59 a1k0n: first player keeps timing out for me 2010-09-10T12:25:07 registrating still not working? 2010-09-10T12:25:10 jmcarthur: oh really 2010-09-10T12:25:16 a1k0n: no matter what bot i choose, apparently 2010-09-10T12:25:44 are you able to build the PlayGame jar from svn? 2010-09-10T12:25:58 i'll try in a second 2010-09-10T12:26:03 trunk? 2010-09-10T12:26:04 a1k0n: can you find what's wrong with it? 2010-09-10T12:26:19 so.. how come it broke all of the sudden? it worked yesterday 2010-09-10T12:26:37 a1k0n: this is on my arch box, not the ubuntu vm, btw 2010-09-10T12:26:57 amstan: it looks like a configuration problem 2010-09-10T12:27:11 like the official contest gmail account's password got changed 2010-09-10T12:27:19 java version "1.6.0_18" ; OpenJDK Runtime Environment (IcedTea6 1.8.1) (ArchLinux-6.b18_1.8.1-1-x86_64) ; OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM (build 14.0-b16, mixed mode) 2010-09-10T12:27:20 jmcarthur: yeah trunk 2010-09-10T12:27:27 'make PlayGame.jar' 2010-09-10T12:27:33 in planet_wars/viz/ 2010-09-10T12:27:35 *** PurplePanda has left #aichallenge 2010-09-10T12:27:41 okay 2010-09-10T12:27:47 a1k0n: the password that's in the repo? 2010-09-10T12:28:14 ... in the repo? 2010-09-10T12:28:24 yeah, in gmail.php 2010-09-10T12:28:35 @what issues 2010-09-10T12:28:35 amstan: issues could be http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/list. 2010-09-10T12:29:03 nvm, no password here 2010-09-10T12:29:10 Where in the repo is the password? "rgrep mailer_password ai-contest-read-only" returns nothing informative, for me. 2010-09-10T12:30:18 it's in server_info.php 2010-09-10T12:31:58 amstan: is this how emails were sent last time around? 2010-09-10T12:32:03 a1k0n: i just built PlayGame from scratch and ran a script to run every bot against every other bot. player 2 won every time because player 1 timed out 2010-09-10T12:32:13 a1k0n: properly.. with the sendmail system 2010-09-10T12:32:14 *every sample bot 2010-09-10T12:32:22 a1k0n: but this is not *.csclub.uwaterloo.ca anymore 2010-09-10T12:32:41 a1k0n: nope, email is fine, the address works 2010-09-10T12:32:54 i'm guessing it's exceeding the rate gmail allows 2010-09-10T12:33:23 hmm but now google is the mx for the domain 2010-09-10T12:33:26 oh course: 2010-09-10T12:33:28 amstan@ltfs1110:/var/log$ cd apache2/ 2010-09-10T12:33:30 -bash: cd: apache2/: Permission denied 2010-09-10T12:33:38 *sigh* 2010-09-10T12:33:54 i give up.. 2010-09-10T12:34:10 if this is a real server, why didn't he use a real sendmail server? 2010-09-10T12:34:11 j3camero needs to give you some flipping permissions 2010-09-10T12:34:20 and yeah, gmail is a strange way to do this 2010-09-10T12:34:40 gmail i use on hypertriangle.com, because i'm residential isp and nothing else works 2010-09-10T12:35:54 yeah, i think the contest site just sent too many emails via the smtp gateway 2010-09-10T12:36:05 Has anyone tried calling Jeff? His phone number's on his CV. 2010-09-10T12:36:07 you'll need your own sendmail/qmail/postfix MTA 2010-09-10T12:36:20 and change the mx record for the domain 2010-09-10T12:36:24 coventry`: he's at work, i doubt he can do much from there 2010-09-10T12:36:34 coventry`: especially if he needs to do all this ^^^ 2010-09-10T12:36:49 Ah, OK. It'll probably happen this evening, then. 2010-09-10T12:36:54 lame 2010-09-10T12:37:26 Well, you can hardly blame him for prioritizing his paying job. :-) 2010-09-10T12:37:46 relax, just give a1k0n his moment of glory at the top :-) 2010-09-10T12:38:05 *** rwallace has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T12:38:15 contestbot: rankings 3 2010-09-10T12:38:19 amstan: Top 3 players: a1k0n(2884), albert(2803), seigen(2787) 2010-09-10T12:38:26 heheh 2010-09-10T12:38:44 hoho 2010-09-10T12:38:50 i think drewrobb may rob me 2010-09-10T12:40:33 Isn't he going to be disqualified? I mean he's the previous winner who's supposed to hand over the crown. And he didn't mention world peace the last time around. 2010-09-10T12:41:02 oh yeah, i totally blew my speech 2010-09-10T12:42:27 meh, not part of the rules, lol 2010-09-10T12:50:09 *** Guest77645 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T12:53:26 *** mtcbot has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-10T12:54:47 *** idevelop has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-10T12:55:55 *** scott__ has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T12:59:50 *** McLeopold has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T13:00:10 *** phreeza has quit IRC (Quit: kthxbai) 2010-09-10T13:01:50 I'm noticing a difference in the planet production calc between the tcp server and the official server. 2010-09-10T13:02:28 It looks like the tcp server awards a newly taken over neutral planet the production for that round, but the other server does not. 2010-09-10T13:04:56 That goes for a take over of enemy planets as well. 2010-09-10T13:06:54 *** Utkarsh has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T13:08:16 *** vikhyat has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-09-10T13:09:01 McLeopold: yep, tcpserver does production last instead of first, and has other issues with simultaneous arrivals by different parties 2010-09-10T13:09:22 when dhartmei gets back i hope we can get that fixed 2010-09-10T13:10:22 *** krakrjak has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T13:10:48 Top 10 players: a1k0n(2858), albert(2776), seigen(2766), drewrobb(2713), i02agsij(2680), dmj111(2655), zaphus(2640), vortex(2605), Adelf32(2546), Kavish(2540) 2010-09-10T13:13:01 *** ckoehler has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T13:13:24 hi there 2010-09-10T13:13:33 having trouble signing up, telling me the confirmation email can't be sent 2010-09-10T13:13:53 and SMTP error: data not accepted 2010-09-10T13:14:02 ckoehler: yes, we know 2010-09-10T13:14:12 contestbot: remove topic 4 2010-09-10T13:14:12 amstan: Error: The command "remove" is available in the Alias, BadWords, Dunno, Herald, Later, News, Quote, RSS, Scheduler, Success, Todo, and Topic plugins. Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "remove". 2010-09-10T13:14:21 contestbot: topic remove 4 2010-09-10T13:14:21 *** contestbot changes topic to "Official Google AI Challenge: http://ai-contest.com/ || http://contestbot.hypertriangle.com/ || Developers wanted, contact j3camero." 2010-09-10T13:14:49 k cool 2010-09-10T13:14:49 contestbot: topic add Sorry about the hick-up with the signups, our mailing system is currently having difficulties. 2010-09-10T13:14:49 *** contestbot changes topic to "Official Google AI Challenge: http://ai-contest.com/ || http://contestbot.hypertriangle.com/ || Developers wanted, contact j3camero. || Sorry about the hick-up with the signups, our mailing system is currently having difficulties." 2010-09-10T13:15:49 ckoehler: it will have to wait until some time this evening :( 2010-09-10T13:16:02 I there an official way to resolve simultaneous arrivals? 2010-09-10T13:16:03 ckoehler: in the meantime, you can try the tcp server if you want 2010-09-10T13:16:13 @where tcpserver 2010-09-10T13:16:13 amstan: Error: No factoid matches that key. 2010-09-10T13:16:21 huh? 2010-09-10T13:16:22 ... 2010-09-10T13:16:24 that's alright, i don't have much time to invest anyway, was just gonna play for a bit 2010-09-10T13:16:29 i've noticed contestbot resets a lot 2010-09-10T13:16:41 For things like simultaneous arrivals, can we take it that the way game.class in the Java starter package does things, represents the official rules? 2010-09-10T13:16:44 jmcarthur: resets? 2010-09-10T13:16:51 amstan: "forgets" 2010-09-10T13:16:57 jmcarthur: i think i forgot to read tcpserver 2010-09-10T13:17:10 amstan: i added it a while ago 2010-09-10T13:17:13 jmcarthur: i upgraded the factoids to sqlite3, so i could have a web interface for it 2010-09-10T13:17:17 amstan: it also had forgotten those rankings aliases 2010-09-10T13:17:21 a 2010-09-10T13:17:22 @rank 2010-09-10T13:17:22 amstan: Error: The command "rank" is available in the Alias, ChannelStats, and Factoids plugins. Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "rank". 2010-09-10T13:17:23 h 2010-09-10T13:17:26 :O 2010-09-10T13:17:29 i added it back 2010-09-10T13:17:30 wat 2010-09-10T13:17:34 @ranks 2010-09-10T13:17:35 amstan: Top 10 players: a1k0n(2860), albert(2779), seigen(2769), drewrobb(2717), i02agsij(2682), dmj111(2654), zaphus(2642), vortex(2606), Adelf32(2557), Kavish(2541) 2010-09-10T13:17:39 yeah.. nvm 2010-09-10T13:17:39 lamo 2010-09-10T13:17:46 @alias rank 2010-09-10T13:17:47 amstan: Top 10 players: a1k0n(2860), albert(2779), seigen(2769), drewrobb(2717), i02agsij(2682), dmj111(2654), zaphus(2642), vortex(2606), Adelf32(2557), Kavish(2541) 2010-09-10T13:17:53 *** Scrap has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-10T13:18:07 McLeopold/rwallace: yes, the latest starter pack does it the correct way as assented to by j3camero 2010-09-10T13:18:10 has anyone posted some bash script online to run numerous matches? 2010-09-10T13:18:17 Cool, thanks 2010-09-10T13:18:35 on the forum ratatata 2010-09-10T13:18:54 Vi0: thanks! 2010-09-10T13:19:02 "prelim brag" thread 2010-09-10T13:23:20 McLeopold: Yes. 2010-09-10T13:23:36 anyone want to help me mod the forums? 2010-09-10T13:23:45 McLeopold: It is the method proposed my jmcarthur. Simultaneous combat. 2010-09-10T13:24:18 *** mtcbot has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T13:25:24 *** mtcbot has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2010-09-10T13:26:16 @where issues 2010-09-10T13:26:16 amstan: issues could be http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/list. 2010-09-10T13:27:22 *** danielvf has left #aichallenge 2010-09-10T13:27:59 amstan: what's the protocol for submitting starter packs for new langs? 2010-09-10T13:28:38 contestbot: learn newlanguage as post in here: http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=414 2010-09-10T13:28:38 amstan: The operation succeeded. 2010-09-10T13:28:46 cbeck: that ^^ ;) 2010-09-10T13:29:34 Danke 2010-09-10T13:31:39 *** danielvf has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T13:32:11 *** apophis_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T13:32:29 I think I know what must have happened with the mailing failure: Suddenly, outgoing mail from that account spiked, and google's spam mitigation logic shut the account down. 2010-09-10T13:32:37 coventry`: probably 2010-09-10T13:32:52 coventry`: it's funny.. because we are google.. 2010-09-10T13:33:01 Yeah, I was thinking that... 2010-09-10T13:33:44 jeff might know a friend of his to contact to raise the spam limit 2010-09-10T13:33:51 but that might take even longer 2010-09-10T13:33:57 easier to get sendmail probably 2010-09-10T13:34:03 *** apophis_ is now known as Apophis 2010-09-10T13:36:40 something eerie about seeing people who work for Google 2010-09-10T13:36:52 never met one 2010-09-10T13:37:14 ckoehler: very few actually do 2010-09-10T13:37:19 *** s_denchev has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T13:37:21 not even jeff, he did work there 2010-09-10T13:39:17 ah okay 2010-09-10T13:39:26 just thought by the "we are google" 2010-09-10T13:40:06 *** s_denchev has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2010-09-10T13:40:13 *** vikhyat has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T13:40:50 amstan: Sep 10 12:35:02 ltfs1110 qmail: 1284140102.805608 delivery 36943: failure: This_address_no_longer_accepts_mail./ 2010-09-10T13:41:08 *** alex79 has left #aichallenge 2010-09-10T13:41:48 so what do you guys need developers for? 2010-09-10T13:42:25 ckoehler: Look around, pick something. ;) 2010-09-10T13:43:46 that's for the bot? not sure where to look around at :) 2010-09-10T13:44:12 *** awwaiid has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T13:44:29 ckoehler: get patches for these issues: 2010-09-10T13:44:32 @url issues 2010-09-10T13:44:32 amstan: issues could be http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/list. 2010-09-10T13:46:06 i wish it didn't add periods like that 2010-09-10T13:48:30 *** Utkarsh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-09-10T13:48:33 cool thanks 2010-09-10T13:49:10 @url issues 2010-09-10T13:49:10 amstan: issues is http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/list 2010-09-10T13:49:15 jmcarthur: there ^ 2010-09-10T13:49:43 woot 2010-09-10T13:49:51 *** flaran has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T13:51:16 we're going to need to work on optimizing the rankings pages. it's already pretty slow 2010-09-10T13:51:54 yay, lol, slowness ftw 2010-09-10T13:52:11 146 running entries already 2010-09-10T13:53:00 *** phreeza has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T13:53:12 should be more :( 2010-09-10T13:53:23 http://ai-contest.com/visualizer_canvas.php?game_id=4428074 2010-09-10T13:53:27 that was a draw 2010-09-10T13:53:50 why the hell is my bot still in the lead/! 2010-09-10T13:53:51 Server bug? 2010-09-10T13:53:55 can someone do a grep -R gmail.php . in the www folder in the repo? 2010-09-10T13:53:57 some kind of hiccup 2010-09-10T13:54:06 i think we should just statically generate rankings pages whenever the elo script runs 2010-09-10T13:54:12 or at least the table part of it 2010-09-10T13:54:23 jmcarthur: totally, or just memcache the page 2010-09-10T13:54:33 of course, we haven't profiled any of this, but that is the most logical optimization anyway 2010-09-10T13:54:48 it's doing way too many table joins IMO 2010-09-10T13:54:56 a1k0n: well i assume that we can't cache the entire thing because the header should be different if you are logged in, but aside from that... 2010-09-10T13:55:08 *** Utkarsh has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T13:55:09 jmcarthur: ah, yeah. well the table itself can be, yes 2010-09-10T13:56:01 rankings_widget.php should just read/write a flatfile as long as the file is not too old (assuming we don't go for a more industrial-strength general caching solution of some sort) 2010-09-10T13:56:07 Better yet, cache the whole thing, set that header from javascript 2010-09-10T13:56:15 Set a username cookie 2010-09-10T13:56:20 yeah as long as the site is just one machine, a flatfile works 2010-09-10T13:56:24 danielvf: ooh yea 2010-09-10T13:56:29 and just have the page insert that 2010-09-10T13:56:41 a1k0n: well, rankings_widget might be used on the user pages too i suspect. didn't check 2010-09-10T13:56:43 heh that's what we did for vendetta-online.com 2010-09-10T13:56:51 a1k0n: so the file might have to be names after the user id or something 2010-09-10T13:56:53 @where issues 2010-09-10T13:56:53 amstan: issues = http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/list 2010-09-10T13:56:56 jmcarthur: profile_games_widget is used there 2010-09-10T13:56:59 ah 2010-09-10T13:57:02 nevermind then :) 2010-09-10T13:57:11 but i think that could also use caching to some extent 2010-09-10T13:57:22 as people see a game, then back out to see more 2010-09-10T13:57:42 that was a major annoyance last time how long it took to load my user page 2010-09-10T13:58:03 a1k0n: Yeah - should not be that way 2010-09-10T13:58:07 the main rankings page is the worst though, and since we know it won't change except when the script runs, it's probably best to just have the script update the flatfile 2010-09-10T13:58:17 holy pwnage http://ai-contest.com/visualizer_canvas.php?game_id=4428602 2010-09-10T13:58:33 *** tebele has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T13:58:33 jeez 2010-09-10T13:58:37 hi 2010-09-10T13:58:48 tebele: Hi 2010-09-10T13:58:51 jmcarthur: totally 2010-09-10T13:59:13 How long does it take from when you submit a bot, to when it shows? 2010-09-10T13:59:25 does anybody know how to run my bot in a webpage that a username posted in forums, but in C#? 2010-09-10T13:59:28 usually just a few minutes 2010-09-10T13:59:31 *** s_denchev has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T13:59:35 dmj111 is making it such that as soon as you take a planet his forces sweep in and take it back while you are weak 2010-09-10T14:00:00 yeah and my bot underestimates the forces it needs to keep there 2010-09-10T14:00:02 (by design) 2010-09-10T14:00:26 i have a version which overestimates but it doesn't expand fast enough 2010-09-10T14:00:30 *** Utkarsh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-09-10T14:00:47 i'll add an issue for the rankings cache 2010-09-10T14:01:10 jmcarthur: good 2010-09-10T14:02:24 a1k0n 2010-09-10T14:02:48 there are some times where a fleet arrives a planet but it doesn't change. I mean, the planet keep neutral. Why? 2010-09-10T14:03:04 *** stef2n has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T14:03:13 if you send 5 ships to a planet that grows 5 ships per turn then the planet size stays constant that turn 2010-09-10T14:03:40 tebele: or do you mean like a fleet that should take over just disappears without effect? 2010-09-10T14:03:59 it just disappears without effect 2010-09-10T14:04:04 yay i made issue 100 2010-09-10T14:04:08 get an updated starter pack, it was a bug 2010-09-10T14:04:15 I use C# 2010-09-10T14:04:28 is there any updated starter pack? How to know it? 2010-09-10T14:04:47 they were updated last night 2010-09-10T14:04:55 i dunno, they're doing a terrible job of telling people about it 2010-09-10T14:05:03 great 2010-09-10T14:05:04 *last night in US time zones 2010-09-10T14:05:14 j3camero should put version numbers on the starter packs and 'last updated version ' on the starter_packages.php page 2010-09-10T14:05:26 I like this game, http://ai-contest.com/visualizer_canvas.php?game_id=4428692 2010-09-10T14:05:28 and how could I know my version? 2010-09-10T14:05:57 md5sum tools/PlayGame.jar 2010-09-10T14:06:23 new starter pack: a0996be312bd5c7856069db432dedabe PlayGame.jar 2010-09-10T14:06:49 however the new one is apparently broken in some versions of ubuntu (sigh) 2010-09-10T14:06:57 and arch 2010-09-10T14:07:06 i think it might be java versions or something 2010-09-10T14:07:38 why do we even have separate client and server engines, anyway? 2010-09-10T14:07:51 *** levente_meszaros has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T14:07:51 seriously, it should just use python 2010-09-10T14:08:12 i think the java one is more compatible, except where it doesn't work at all 2010-09-10T14:09:34 awwaiid: wow drewrobb's bot is very similar to albert's there 2010-09-10T14:09:55 so, I keep getting "WARNING: player 1 timed out." 2010-09-10T14:10:00 does this mean my bot is too slow? 2010-09-10T14:10:07 do the example bots work? 2010-09-10T14:10:17 yes. 2010-09-10T14:10:18 *** Utkarsh has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T14:10:29 flaran: do they work when they are player 1? 2010-09-10T14:10:36 (2) 2010-09-10T14:10:43 er nm 2010-09-10T14:10:43 jmcarthur: yes 2010-09-10T14:10:50 okay, not the same issue as me then 2010-09-10T14:10:58 An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information. 2010-09-10T14:11:03 flaran: try upping the first number on the PlayGame.jar commandline (1000 is timeout in ms) 2010-09-10T14:11:37 a1k0n: thanks. 2010-09-10T14:11:44 also i highly recommend (cat maps/map7.txt; echo go) | time ./yourbot 2010-09-10T14:11:47 I think my bot is just hanging up somewhere 2010-09-10T14:11:52 flaran, I got that when I tried writing debug information to standard error, so make sure you aren't doing that are 2010-09-10T14:11:54 contestbot needs to stop erroring publicly 2010-09-10T14:11:55 jmcarthur: Error: "needs" is not a valid command. 2010-09-10T14:11:58 if the TimeOut happens at 1st turn, your bot might be crashing too 2010-09-10T14:12:02 hahaha 2010-09-10T14:12:42 ha! :) 2010-09-10T14:13:22 jmcarthur: i think that was an attemp to download the rankings 2010-09-10T14:13:25 I tried scripts I found on forums for multiple matches.. and no matter what I do, only 1 game gets played for each bot.. can't figure out why :/ 2010-09-10T14:13:32 *** vikhyat has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2010-09-10T14:14:08 yep: URLError: 2010-09-10T14:14:13 heh 2010-09-10T14:14:31 *** contestbot has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T14:14:32 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o contestbot 2010-09-10T14:14:33 stupid screen 2010-09-10T14:14:44 a1k0n: look at https://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284141893|a1k0n|dhartmei :) 2010-09-10T14:15:01 is it just me or is that a 404? 2010-09-10T14:15:06 https? 2010-09-10T14:15:14 ah, no, just http:// sorry 2010-09-10T14:15:32 just a funny draw 2010-09-10T14:15:39 oh man 2010-09-10T14:15:48 it's a draw? haha 2010-09-10T14:16:01 did you see that? 2010-09-10T14:16:10 first part.. 2010-09-10T14:16:11 there's no way this is a draw.. you pwn me 2010-09-10T14:16:16 the planet with 6 neutral 2010-09-10T14:16:28 well, i win only due to turn limit 2010-09-10T14:16:38 funny defending 2010-09-10T14:16:39 yeah but you would have won anyway, you were dominating 2010-09-10T14:16:46 dharmatei sent tons of ships, and nothing happened 2010-09-10T14:16:55 cuz i countered them exactly every time 2010-09-10T14:17:02 there's an off by one somewhere 2010-09-10T14:17:09 there's a stream of 7,8,9,10,11 ships coming from both of us 2010-09-10T14:17:10 i should let you take the planet, kill the neutral, THEN take you 2010-09-10T14:17:17 and 12 2010-09-10T14:17:23 there was a three-way that completely screwed things up in there 2010-09-10T14:17:59 and yeah under the newly-revised rules the planet should have gone down to 0 2010-09-10T14:18:14 dhartmei: we need to get your server using the new 3-way battle rules and also growth-first instead of last 2010-09-10T14:18:25 ok, i'll try to get this done tonight 2010-09-10T14:18:46 but not i can't find which one it is 2010-09-10T14:18:47 *** vikhyat has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T14:18:49 *** Utkarsh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-10T14:19:10 oh hey, on turn 16-17 2010-09-10T14:19:36 nm, i countered with a 13 there, just hard to see it 2010-09-10T14:19:58 dhartmei: people are complaining, lol: http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=424&start=10 2010-09-10T14:19:59 (the red 11 planet, and that's an 18, argh) 2010-09-10T14:20:51 so growth comes before battle, and the 3-way battle code is the java one in the repo now? 2010-09-10T14:20:59 dhartmei: correct 2010-09-10T14:21:00 *** Doctor has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T14:21:12 ok, i'll duplicate that asap 2010-09-10T14:21:22 *** vikhyat has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-09-10T14:21:29 how did this happen? 63R vs. 6B vs. 62N ==> 6N 2010-09-10T14:21:33 what in the world is the rule right now? 2010-09-10T14:21:34 dhartmei: you have to merge all fleets from each party, find the top 2, and subtract and give the planet to the winner 2010-09-10T14:21:48 jmcarthur: it just processes fleets in order 2010-09-10T14:22:02 i still don't see how it ended up with 6N there 2010-09-10T14:22:02 wait that doesn't make sense 2010-09-10T14:22:26 yeah 5 I could see 2010-09-10T14:22:27 turn 58 is the attack 2010-09-10T14:22:32 in my current code, the players battle first, then the winner takes on the planet 2010-09-10T14:22:36 maybe i'm seeing the B wrong 2010-09-10T14:22:47 *** Zannick has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T14:22:48 and THEN growth happens 2010-09-10T14:23:08 woot! email was fixed.. i think 2010-09-10T14:23:22 noway 2010-09-10T14:23:24 how? 2010-09-10T14:23:44 oh i think this is 7B, not 6B 2010-09-10T14:23:46 planet ship growth first, then doesn't reinforcement growth come next, and then battle last? 2010-09-10T14:23:49 thank zepp: [14:18] i made it use the smtp server that is already running on that machine apparently :P 2010-09-10T14:23:52 then that makes sense 2010-09-10T14:23:53 which is even stranger i think 2010-09-10T14:23:55 really? 2010-09-10T14:24:07 ahyeah 2010-09-10T14:24:08 jmcarthur: 63-7 vs 62 2010-09-10T14:24:18 okay now i follow 2010-09-10T14:24:45 the viz really needs to make numbers easy to see on top of similar-colored planets 2010-09-10T14:24:48 amstan: hah, ok. it might get spamfiltered since the mx record points to google but at least the email will go somewhere 2010-09-10T14:25:02 a1k0n: that's their problem.. lol 2010-09-10T14:25:30 yeah there should be a somewhat contrasting color for fleets over planets 2010-09-10T14:25:40 *** hornairs has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T14:25:48 maybe red's fleets are pinkish 2010-09-10T14:26:03 a1k0n: An outline would also work well 2010-09-10T14:26:10 Yay, registration finally happened! 2010-09-10T14:26:17 if possible, yeah 2010-09-10T14:26:20 a shadow 2010-09-10T14:26:28 contestbot: topic remove 4 2010-09-10T14:26:28 *** contestbot changes topic to "Official Google AI Challenge: http://ai-contest.com/ || http://contestbot.hypertriangle.com/ || Developers wanted, contact j3camero." 2010-09-10T14:26:30 that'd probably look better than outlined numbers 2010-09-10T14:26:41 @topic add Registration is now open! 2010-09-10T14:26:41 *** contestbot changes topic to "Official Google AI Challenge: http://ai-contest.com/ || http://contestbot.hypertriangle.com/ || Developers wanted, contact j3camero. || Registration is now open!" 2010-09-10T14:27:25 woot! finally signed up :) 2010-09-10T14:27:32 http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=492 2010-09-10T14:27:33 el oh el 2010-09-10T14:27:45 a1k0n: yes, replying to that 2010-09-10T14:27:47 wow.. 2010-09-10T14:27:48 bahahaha 2010-09-10T14:28:02 i liked how he marked it as [Important] 2010-09-10T14:28:10 lol 2010-09-10T14:28:10 i didn't realize the java applet situation was *this* bad, but i guess that's why nobody uses them 2010-09-10T14:28:20 screw java 2010-09-10T14:28:22 *** Utkarsh has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T14:28:32 screw it sideways and upside down and inside out 2010-09-10T14:28:34 a flash game viewer might even be prefereable to canvas 2010-09-10T14:28:46 (just for compatibility) 2010-09-10T14:29:07 i could probably knock one out 2010-09-10T14:29:35 ...using the js code 2010-09-10T14:29:36 i like canvas, but i guess it doesn't work for everybody 2010-09-10T14:30:05 a1k0n: OTOH canvas works on most newish smartphone but flash doesn't 2010-09-10T14:30:17 ulope: yeah, there's a case for both 2010-09-10T14:30:26 hell opera mini even renders canvas which is amazing 2010-09-10T14:30:35 (noninteractively, but still) 2010-09-10T14:30:48 honestly, with this many developers, I'm sure someone will volunteer to make it for their favorite platform :P 2010-09-10T14:31:27 i've considered making a greasemonkey script just to replace visualizer.php with visualizer_canvas.php until it gets switched over all the way 2010-09-10T14:31:38 yeah i'd rather use canvas than flash so i'll leave it for someone who really needs it 2010-09-10T14:31:43 but i don't even know how to use greasemonkey yet 2010-09-10T14:31:54 it's not very hard but it's finicky 2010-09-10T14:31:59 Why not just put in the existing canvas version and place a link below "Old crappy java version here" 2010-09-10T14:32:13 ulope: idk 2010-09-10T14:32:34 clicking a 'view game' link without editing the url first currently fucks up my browser 2010-09-10T14:32:44 same 2010-09-10T14:32:50 (safari) 2010-09-10T14:33:01 my comp makes high pitched noises when the applet loads 2010-09-10T14:33:12 then java proceeds to use 100% cpu even after i close it 2010-09-10T14:33:15 i've had the browser frame actually freeze for good 2010-09-10T14:33:22 i wouldn't even normally have java installed except that this contest uses it 2010-09-10T14:33:39 that's a one line fix that should go in asap 2010-09-10T14:33:44 It would be nice if you could use the canvas visualizer locally 2010-09-10T14:33:45 woot: Most users ever online was 46 on Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:26 pm 2010-09-10T14:33:49 to change the link to _canvas 2010-09-10T14:33:52 I don't have any Java hate in general, but applets are kind of useless. 2010-09-10T14:34:03 that's even more than after the finals for tron 2010-09-10T14:34:15 applets *could* be awesome, but there is just way too much overhea 2010-09-10T14:34:16 d 2010-09-10T14:34:17 flaran: they're an interesting idea 2010-09-10T14:34:41 they were, several years ago 2010-09-10T14:34:44 the JVM is a remarkable piece of machinery... for anything noninteractive 2010-09-10T14:34:51 re 3-way battle: what if the planet is neutral with 5 ships, and both players arrive with 5 each? top 2 prioritizes neutral? 2010-09-10T14:35:02 Java the language is okay for the time it was created 2010-09-10T14:35:14 dhartmei: 0N 2010-09-10T14:35:21 ok 2010-09-10T14:35:51 dhartmei: if the top two are even the result is always 0N 2010-09-10T14:35:52 yeah and reducing a planet pop to 0 doesn't change its owner 2010-09-10T14:36:01 amstan: and a bad implementation 2010-09-10T14:36:05 right, but in a three way the owner must be N 2010-09-10T14:36:37 but yeah, if it's just 1v1 then a tie results in O 2010-09-10T14:36:47 or rather, in all cases 2010-09-10T14:37:39 Can someone send me the results of "uname -a", "cat /etc/issue" and "python --version" on the virtual machine in which the bots run? I'd like to ensure that I'm building C extensions to the right target. 2010-09-10T14:38:50 for those who understand haskell, here's my battle resolution code: http://hpaste.org/fastcgi/hpaste.fcgi/view?id=29863#a29863 2010-09-10T14:39:06 dang i need to say what Group is 2010-09-10T14:39:54 coventry`: python 2.5.2 2010-09-10T14:39:59 http://hpaste.org/fastcgi/hpaste.fcgi/view?id=29863#a29864 2010-09-10T14:40:07 coventry`: 2.6.24-24-server #1 SMP Fri Sep 18 17:24:10 UTC 2009 i686 GNU/Linux 2010-09-10T14:40:17 *** Zannick has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2010-09-10T14:40:24 coventry`: Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS 2010-09-10T14:40:30 Thanks, amstan. 2010-09-10T14:40:57 * jmcarthur should build his haskell program as a C extension for python 2010-09-10T14:41:11 then i can upload binaries 2010-09-10T14:41:21 I don't know whether this is going to work yet, or not. :-) 2010-09-10T14:41:33 you might scare j3camero if it works 2010-09-10T14:41:40 hopefully into just allowing binaries 2010-09-10T14:42:18 *** Zannick has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T14:42:20 If it's a standard python install, it *should* work, unless the game setup includes stripping *.so binaries from the zip file contents. 2010-09-10T14:42:25 i wonder if it will keep the executable permissions if it untars with them 2010-09-10T14:42:32 coventry`: no, it doesn't do that 2010-09-10T14:42:51 a1k0n: shouldn't matter. it's just an object file that gets linked in 2010-09-10T14:43:08 so's need to be executable to be dlopened 2010-09-10T14:43:14 oh wait, no they don't 2010-09-10T14:43:21 a1k0n: the compile script sets permissions on MyBot.ext for scripting languages to 644, iirc 2010-09-10T14:43:27 that's it 2010-09-10T14:44:43 hmm... surely the sandbox doesn't allow launching new processes, right? 2010-09-10T14:44:50 dmj111's gonna take the lead soon 2010-09-10T14:44:52 i haven't checked for that specifically 2010-09-10T14:45:07 it shouldn't 2010-09-10T14:45:15 * jmcarthur won't even bother looking 2010-09-10T14:46:38 man the database is already hosed 2010-09-10T14:47:11 dang... 2010-09-10T14:47:16 lol.. now the rankings.php is timing out.. 2010-09-10T14:47:18 wow 2010-09-10T14:47:23 we need that caching soon 2010-09-10T14:47:27 are all these tables MyISAM? 2010-09-10T14:47:27 like... now 2010-09-10T14:47:40 he needs to get a better server, this one is even worse than the tron one 2010-09-10T14:47:45 yeah and something is really wonky anyway if this is all it takes to overload the db 2010-09-10T14:47:45 there's way too much locking going on i suspect if it can't even grab a game 2010-09-10T14:47:46 hey 2010-09-10T14:47:57 in fact games should just be stored as flat files 2010-09-10T14:48:07 what changes are between the two different version of the starter pack? just the PlayGame.jar?? 2010-09-10T14:48:13 and just accessible without php 2010-09-10T14:48:16 (to fix some bugs) 2010-09-10T14:48:23 tebele: and ShowGame.jar, which is much faster 2010-09-10T14:48:26 yep, all MyISAM 2010-09-10T14:48:28 of course now it works fine 2010-09-10T14:48:28 great 2010-09-10T14:48:32 and it added a missing C++ function 2010-09-10T14:48:39 so I have to replace just these two files? 2010-09-10T14:48:43 yep 2010-09-10T14:48:59 ok, thx 2010-09-10T14:49:08 *** ermau has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T14:50:06 amstan: thanksgiving is <2 months away, not 3. :) 2010-09-10T14:50:28 in fact storing games in mysql is totally nuts 2010-09-10T14:50:35 oh 2010-09-10T14:50:43 now I replaced the two files 2010-09-10T14:50:46 serving them up from the filesystem would be way faster 2010-09-10T14:50:51 the example bots don't work!! 2010-09-10T14:50:59 they time up 2010-09-10T14:51:00 tebele: they time out? 2010-09-10T14:51:04 yes 2010-09-10T14:51:09 shit, i've been trying to diagnose that, cuz i don't see it 2010-09-10T14:51:19 :S 2010-09-10T14:51:21 let me build a playgame jar that might fix it 2010-09-10T14:51:30 i'm using the C# pack 2010-09-10T14:51:42 please, cause I want to improve my bot and now I can't test it 2010-09-10T14:52:26 tebele: http://a1k0n.net/temp/PlayGame.jar 2010-09-10T14:52:30 any difference? 2010-09-10T14:52:30 md5sum PlayGame.jar : a0996be312bd5c7856069db432dedabe -> my ships still mysteriously disappear 2010-09-10T14:52:49 what should I do with that file? 2010-09-10T14:53:09 download it, and try it instead of Playgame.jar from the starter pack 2010-09-10T14:53:13 ha! ok, I'll test it 2010-09-10T14:53:20 wait a second 2010-09-10T14:54:00 no, it doesn't work. the same as before. 2010-09-10T14:54:08 ok, i figured 2010-09-10T14:54:18 has that bugfix not been pushed to trunk? 2010-09-10T14:54:35 Zannick: disappearing ships? it should be fixed, maybe there's yet another problem 2010-09-10T14:54:48 that was the "remove that break statement" fix 2010-09-10T14:54:51 tebele: looking for another potential problem 2010-09-10T14:54:55 so i think it should be there 2010-09-10T14:55:02 ok 2010-09-10T14:55:05 oh, *that* fix wasn't pushed to trunk because it was supplanted by the new fleet resolution code 2010-09-10T14:55:11 >.< 2010-09-10T14:55:34 ratatata: can you share your replay log? 2010-09-10T14:56:17 the log.txt that gets sent to visualizer right? where shall I put it? here? 2010-09-10T14:56:51 not log.txt, but what gets piped to the visualizer 2010-09-10T14:56:53 *** hornairs has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-09-10T14:57:03 run PlayGame.jar >file 2010-09-10T14:57:40 and i dunno, it's a huge single line of text so i dunno if it'll work on a pastebin 2010-09-10T14:57:42 change "| java -jar ShowGame.jar" to "> replay.log", for example 2010-09-10T14:57:52 it'll work on pastebin 2010-09-10T14:59:01 tebele: does it timeout instantly or does it take a second? 2010-09-10T14:59:21 it timeout in the turn 1 2010-09-10T14:59:28 same issue again 2010-09-10T14:59:32 but immediately? 2010-09-10T14:59:37 "timeout" is playgame.jar for "died, didn't start, or took too much time" 2010-09-10T14:59:46 what if a neutral planet has one ship, and both players arrive with 5 ships each? 2010-09-10T14:59:54 mm yes, 2010-09-10T15:00:01 what i've been seeing is that P1 always times out 2010-09-10T15:00:08 and in the viewer the enemy has no planets 2010-09-10T15:00:34 jmcarthur: we are player 1, aren't we? 2010-09-10T15:00:58 i mean whichever one you specify first in the command line 2010-09-10T15:01:12 right 2010-09-10T15:01:38 P1 times out, so P2 wins 2010-09-10T15:03:42 amstan: the IP of the contest site is greylisted to Y!Mail so it's getting marked as spam 2010-09-10T15:03:45 we're whitelisting it 2010-09-10T15:03:56 fun 2010-09-10T15:03:57 *** powhatanbob_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T15:03:57 pulling up history now 2010-09-10T15:04:06 good place to work :) 2010-09-10T15:04:14 any news, a1k0n? 2010-09-10T15:04:27 what's in the log file? 2010-09-10T15:04:32 i have no idea why it doesn't work. i need someone who can reproduce to debug 2010-09-10T15:04:40 (*cough* jmcarthur) 2010-09-10T15:05:12 a1k0n: http://pastebin.com/VCL83HzV also: at the end of log.txt, I saw an unusual line following 'dropping player1' 2010-09-10T15:05:13 specifically lines like "player 1 > engine: " 2010-09-10T15:05:20 this is the diff that broke it: http://paste.lisp.org/display/114426 2010-09-10T15:05:25 well, while you work in the problem, i continue trying with my old PlayGame.jar 2010-09-10T15:05:27 thanks! 2010-09-10T15:05:42 but i hate working with java :( 2010-09-10T15:05:50 * jmcarthur takes a look 2010-09-10T15:05:58 oh that one 2010-09-10T15:06:15 *** hornairs has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T15:08:21 a1k0n: if two players arrive with 5 ships each on a neutral planet with 1 ship, what's the result? it remains neutral, with 0 ships? 2010-09-10T15:08:42 right 2010-09-10T15:09:18 ratatata: well if you got droped then your ship will disappear.. did you maybe send an invalid command? 2010-09-10T15:09:22 ships 2010-09-10T15:09:53 *** hemingway has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T15:10:32 Question: I have just uploaded a new code. My rank will be reseted? 2010-09-10T15:10:38 I thought the 5 ships cancel and the 1 neutral remains? 2010-09-10T15:10:39 *** hemingway has left #aichallenge 2010-09-10T15:11:06 tebele: rank is only based on games played by most recent submission 2010-09-10T15:11:07 (1) Combine fleets. (2) Compare the top two (A and B). (3) If one is strictly greater than the other (say, A), winner is A with A-B ships. Otherwise, the previous owner of the planet retains ownership with 0 ships. 2010-09-10T15:11:10 a1k0n: I don't think I've sent a wrong command, the code that gets evaluated at that point is pretty much the same 10 turns before.. I will review anyway 2010-09-10T15:11:13 dhartmei: ^^ 2010-09-10T15:11:18 thanks zann 2010-09-10T15:11:42 thanks 2010-09-10T15:11:59 What if the neutral had 6 ships? Is it reduced to 1? 2010-09-10T15:12:20 McLeopold: what if it's 5R, 5G, and 6N? 2010-09-10T15:12:26 McLeopold: the result is 1N in that case 2010-09-10T15:12:31 @ranking 2010-09-10T15:12:38 @ranking 2010-09-10T15:12:40 ? 2010-09-10T15:12:42 ratatata: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information. 2010-09-10T15:12:47 So the neutral is considered a third fleet. 2010-09-10T15:12:52 right 2010-09-10T15:12:53 tebele: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information. 2010-09-10T15:12:59 <@contestbot> tebele: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information. 2010-09-10T15:13:07 McLeopold: neutral is treated the same way as a player except that it can't move or grow 2010-09-10T15:13:09 come on 2010-09-10T15:14:00 everything has been broken this week 2010-09-10T15:14:24 McLeopold: you can think of it as these groups of ships cancelling out: RGN RGN RGN RGN RGN. that leaves a single N 2010-09-10T15:14:28 Top 10 players: a1k0n(2869), wtfbbq(2864), albert(2803), dmj111(2802), seigen(2776), drewrobb(2709), cheese_bot(2641), zaphus(2622), HIPIH_(2564), Adelf32(2562) 2010-09-10T15:15:11 *** aerique has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T15:15:41 wtfbbq is 2nd with 6 games :) 2010-09-10T15:16:36 yeah, contestbot is getting annoying 2010-09-10T15:16:56 2nd with 6 games sucks 2010-09-10T15:17:10 how are the points counted? 2010-09-10T15:17:11 i really want those adjusted scored to be used :\ 2010-09-10T15:17:18 tebele: bayeselo 2010-09-10T15:17:27 * ermau shudders at the version of Mono 2010-09-10T15:17:37 ermau: i shudder at the version of everything 2010-09-10T15:17:45 another way of putting it: A wins iff A > B && A > N, B wins iff B > A && B > N, otherwise N wins. remaining := largest number - second largest number 2010-09-10T15:17:48 correct? 2010-09-10T15:18:03 jmcarthur: which is the formula? 2010-09-10T15:18:14 tebele: it's complex 2010-09-10T15:18:19 haha 2010-09-10T15:18:23 tebele: it's well-researched and actually means something though 2010-09-10T15:18:24 that's right, no problem 2010-09-10T15:18:37 it's a monkey typing random numbers 2010-09-10T15:18:37 @rankings 2010-09-10T15:18:38 amstan: Top 10 players: a1k0n(2874), wtfbbq(2847), dmj111(2810), albert(2809), seigen(2782), drewrobb(2717), cheese_bot(2644), zaphus(2627), Adelf32(2591), HIPIH_(2570) 2010-09-10T15:18:39 tebele: i can look up the nice property the number has to paste for you in a sec 2010-09-10T15:19:08 anyone up for a duel in sauerbraten? 2010-09-10T15:19:09 dhartmei: umm... that seems about right 2010-09-10T15:19:26 javagamer_Cpp: you would have it ^ 2010-09-10T15:19:51 tebele: okay, some background: elo is supposed to be a number that denotes your "skill". it's usually determined after a lot of matches have been played. 2010-09-10T15:20:11 tebele: bayeselo attempts to guess what your elo is before you have played enough matches to be 100% sure 2010-09-10T15:20:53 and why wtfbbq is 2nd with 6 games? 2010-09-10T15:20:57 tebele: E=1/(1+10^(D/400)) <-- D is the difference between two bots' scores. E is the expected result of the game 2010-09-10T15:21:08 tebele: because it's just guessing 2010-09-10T15:21:09 we shouldn't be ranked until we've played enough matches 2010-09-10T15:21:21 tebele: i have proposed a change that would make people rise slowly through the ranks rather than jumping around 2010-09-10T15:21:27 while still eventually arriving at their elo score 2010-09-10T15:21:34 sure 2010-09-10T15:21:39 and what happened? 2010-09-10T15:22:35 tebele: my patch makes it such that you elo score has a 95% chance of being *higher* than the reported value 2010-09-10T15:22:59 tebele: the patch is pending while we get some more contestants so we can see what effect it will have before applying it 2010-09-10T15:23:12 great 2010-09-10T15:23:32 ah 2010-09-10T15:23:45 tebele: anyway, since the value reported by my patch only reports the lower end of the confidence interval, the result is that bots should gradually rise over time rather than jumping up too quick :) 2010-09-10T15:24:13 at the moment of choosing the winner, the scores will be set to 0 to everyone so we all have the same opportunities? 2010-09-10T15:24:26 tebele: but either way, it's not just a monkey typing numbers. it's a very meaningful number. it's just not a very good guess at the number until more games are played 2010-09-10T15:24:44 yeah i think the final tournament will be from scratch 2010-09-10T15:24:47 can someone tell me why this game is a draw ? http://ai-contest.com/visualizer_canvas.php?game_id=4429723 2010-09-10T15:24:53 jaja. thx for all jm 2010-09-10T15:24:56 where are u from? 2010-09-10T15:25:01 huntsville, al, usa 2010-09-10T15:25:06 seems that none of the bots played a move ? 2010-09-10T15:25:13 Turn: 1 of 1 2010-09-10T15:25:18 exactly 2010-09-10T15:25:22 s_denchev: then that's why it's a draw :P 2010-09-10T15:25:25 or both timeout 2010-09-10T15:25:27 i bet they both errored out or something 2010-09-10T15:25:38 yeah, but my both played just previous game 2010-09-10T15:26:00 a1k0n: sorry i can't really look at this code right now. i need to get some work done right now 2010-09-10T15:26:06 i'll get to it tonight 2010-09-10T15:26:11 I've uploaded a new pack 20 minutes ago, and I've not played any match yet :S 2010-09-10T15:26:24 yeah we really need some more horsepower 2010-09-10T15:26:27 IMO 2010-09-10T15:26:45 the sandboxes use Qemu and we're not even using KVM :( 2010-09-10T15:26:49 perhaps a donation page to collect money for some iron 2010-09-10T15:27:19 Question: When you submit a .jar file, does it need the source or just the class files? 2010-09-10T15:27:21 i think there have been a couple volunteers willing to donate some CPU, too 2010-09-10T15:27:27 dunno if that will work or not 2010-09-10T15:27:30 how can I test the amount of time my bot will take for one turn? 2010-09-10T15:27:41 Doctor: currently the server requires the source so it can build it itself 2010-09-10T15:27:42 I remember someone mentioning a good way to do this earlier, but I did not save it 2010-09-10T15:27:46 that supposes that the tournament scheduler / engine has the capability to be modified to be distributed 2010-09-10T15:27:48 ty 2010-09-10T15:27:56 Doctor: see http://ai-contest.com/starting_your_own.php 2010-09-10T15:27:58 the bottom 2010-09-10T15:28:03 "Submit your code online" 2010-09-10T15:28:46 Thanks. Eclipse jars w/o the source files by default. 2010-09-10T15:28:56 yeah, a jar file isn't even necessary 2010-09-10T15:29:09 you only need the source, and your main needs to be MyBot.java 2010-09-10T15:29:38 Ah, I see. Thanks. 2010-09-10T15:29:40 HELP. 2010-09-10T15:29:47 My submission time: Sep 10th 14:01:46 2010-09-10T15:29:49 I posted a minimal bot close to an hour ago, no e-mail confirmation as yet (did get e-mail confirmation of registration, but not code submission). I assume that's because the server is just overloaded at the moment? 2010-09-10T15:30:03 Current Rank: N/A. No ranking available Latest Games No game information available at this time. 2010-09-10T15:30:11 wtfbbq is in 2nd now with 7 2010-09-10T15:30:22 tebele: just give it time 2010-09-10T15:30:26 tebele: did you receive an email? 2010-09-10T15:30:48 not yet 2010-09-10T15:30:53 rwallace: there have been some issues today... 2010-09-10T15:31:13 we need to get this worked out. it can't really be handled properly until this evening :( 2010-09-10T15:31:18 nice match: http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=4429634 2010-09-10T15:31:24 tebele, I think you're in the same boat as me, then :-) we just have to wait for the bottleneck to be cleared 2010-09-10T15:31:33 jmcarthur, entirely understandable! 2010-09-10T15:31:46 For Java, I assume the main class has to be "MyBot"? 2010-09-10T15:31:53 yes rwa, we've to wait 2010-09-10T15:32:07 Doctor: i guess. i don't know the java side of things very well 2010-09-10T15:32:08 Doctor, you have to upload the 4 classes 2010-09-10T15:32:21 Fleet, Planet, PlanetWars and MyBot 2010-09-10T15:32:26 jesus there seems to be no good way to debug this in python 2010-09-10T15:32:31 and if you have created more classes, too. 2010-09-10T15:32:58 tebele: btw, there is a nicer visualizer that we just don't have as the default yet :) http://ai-contest.com/visualizer_canvas.php?game_id=4429634 2010-09-10T15:33:23 you're right. How could we update it? xD 2010-09-10T15:33:34 *** dstufft has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T15:34:14 Any recommendations on debugging in Java? 2010-09-10T15:34:48 Hey all, my default visualizer is the old one, how to set the new one (visualizer_canvas) as the default? 2010-09-10T15:35:37 Doctor, that's a good question actually, I haven't had time to really try yet, but the best I've been able to think so far is dump stuff to a log file (since dumping stuff to standard error hangs) 2010-09-10T15:35:49 please check 3-way battles on benzedrine.cx, the new code is in 2010-09-10T15:36:13 Of course being careful to disable the debugging code before submitting, since you're not allowed do any file writing on the server 2010-09-10T15:36:34 tebele: that would be a global setting that the maintainers have to do 2010-09-10T15:36:38 Probably the debugging code had better be guarded by a flag set only in your IDE 2010-09-10T15:36:41 tebele: i don't think you can right now 2010-09-10T15:36:41 ok 2010-09-10T15:36:45 dhartmei: 3 way battles? i thought it was all 2ways? 2010-09-10T15:36:52 tebele: in the meantime you can just manually replace visualizer.php with visualizer_canvas.php 2010-09-10T15:36:55 p1, p2, neutral 2010-09-10T15:36:56 in the url 2010-09-10T15:37:01 If anyone has a better idea, I'm all ears! 2010-09-10T15:37:03 and it will work? 2010-09-10T15:37:27 tebele: yeah 2010-09-10T15:37:32 :D 2010-09-10T15:37:33 tebele: just like the link i gave you 2010-09-10T15:37:36 *** ratatata has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-10T15:37:55 tebele: the hesitation for it is that it won't work in all browsers 2010-09-10T15:38:07 Thanks, rwallace. I was hoping for a better answer, but that will have to do! :-) 2010-09-10T15:38:07 since it uses canvas 2010-09-10T15:39:13 in IE8 it won't work so 2010-09-10T15:39:14 hahah 2010-09-10T15:39:23 neither in IE7, IE6, etc 2010-09-10T15:39:35 perhaps in IE9, who knows? :P 2010-09-10T15:39:56 Doctor: Debugging is something of an acquired skill. Strategically placed print statements are the most flexible form of debugging known to man. When stdout is unavailable just write to files instead. 2010-09-10T15:40:04 well. My first opponent: wtfbbq 2010-09-10T15:40:05 fuck. 2010-09-10T15:40:28 *** choas has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T15:40:45 Doctor: Sometimes debugging with print statements will involve instrumenting your code with extra control. 2010-09-10T15:41:00 Doctor: ...i.e. debug flags and the like. 2010-09-10T15:41:26 tebele: lol 2010-09-10T15:41:38 he is now at the top 2010-09-10T15:41:51 I was winning!!! But my bot crashed! :( 2010-09-10T15:41:55 http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=4429906 2010-09-10T15:41:57 aw man 2010-09-10T15:42:02 *** Vi0 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-09-10T15:42:18 bad luck 2010-09-10T15:42:22 tebele: i bet it actually placed you fairly high in the ranks though 2010-09-10T15:42:33 tebele: which is dumb, but that's how it works right now 2010-09-10T15:42:44 Doctor: In long-running programs where bugs can take hours, days, or longer to occur, you'll typically set the debug flags to false and then write code to detect conditions closer to the bug and enable debugging. 2010-09-10T15:42:45 what? 2010-09-10T15:42:52 I didn't undertand u 2010-09-10T15:43:06 tebele: because the match didn't give much information, so the guess isn't going to be all that low 2010-09-10T15:43:12 because wtfbbq is the top player 2010-09-10T15:43:22 doesn't say much that your beaten by the top player 2010-09-10T15:43:26 *you're 2010-09-10T15:43:28 aah sure. I'm 6 now 2010-09-10T15:43:42 tebele: yup 2010-09-10T15:43:51 that's how screwed up the ranking is right now :P 2010-09-10T15:44:06 three losses, 6th place 2010-09-10T15:44:18 wow 2010-09-10T15:44:32 in all the matches my bot crashed 2010-09-10T15:44:38 I've to check it NOW 2010-09-10T15:44:43 hey, aside from that your bot isn't that bad :) 2010-09-10T15:44:52 :$ 2010-09-10T15:45:25 Doctor: In situations like this where you upload your program to a machine you don't control, it can be even more difficult. Typically you'll want to reproduce the problem locally. This would mean downloading the game where your program crashed and using that to debug. 2010-09-10T15:46:01 jmcarthur: heh that's ok, i'm in the same boat 2010-09-10T15:46:19 hopefully someone can spot something in the diff i posted 2010-09-10T15:46:20 web apps are so boring.. 2010-09-10T15:46:36 i studied it a little. nothing jumped out at me 2010-09-10T15:47:10 Doctor: In situations where you can't even do that, you might have to fall back to debugging based on the model of your program that you hold in your head, and experience with common sources of bugs. In these circumstances, debugging becomes much more of an art than a science. 2010-09-10T15:47:37 Doctor: Is that a better answer? ;) 2010-09-10T15:49:31 I appreciate the information, but my Ph.D. is in CS and I've been programming for 34 years, so I knew most of it :-) 2010-09-10T15:49:57 :D 2010-09-10T15:50:03 Doctor: lol, oops. 2010-09-10T15:50:22 What were you hoping for? 2010-09-10T15:50:37 i think Doctor was hoping for a more pleasing answer, not a more detailed one :) 2010-09-10T15:50:54 like whether there was a good way to debug crap on the server and stuff 2010-09-10T15:51:39 Yes, something along those lines. But I can do log files if necessary. 2010-09-10T15:51:46 Are we allowed to open network sockets? 2010-09-10T15:51:57 no 2010-09-10T15:52:00 You might be able to get more direct info from the server that way. 2010-09-10T15:52:03 Aww, too bad. 2010-09-10T15:52:25 Doctor: the server won't allow you to write a log file though, so the source you upload shouldn't do it, at least not without a #define or env variable 2010-09-10T15:52:26 you're technically not allowed to open log files on the contest server either 2010-09-10T15:52:37 and stderr gets eaten, which is irritating 2010-09-10T15:52:49 Yeah, it's difficult. 2010-09-10T15:52:55 i do wish stderr would be given to you through the web page or something 2010-09-10T15:53:14 that would be cool but abused 2010-09-10T15:53:19 probably :\ 2010-09-10T15:53:27 how about the first 10 lines of stderr :D 2010-09-10T15:53:31 you'd get 80 gigs of peoples logs filling up the disk in no time 2010-09-10T15:53:40 heh, that might work 2010-09-10T15:53:42 i submitted a patch to have game_info tell why your bot lost if it timed out or made a bad order 2010-09-10T15:53:46 well. that first 10 lines of 80 columns 2010-09-10T15:53:46 I think you'd have to worry more about stripping out URLs 2010-09-10T15:54:10 jmcarthur: make it a round 1000 characters 2010-09-10T15:54:10 Zannick: that's a start 2010-09-10T15:54:16 a1k0n: yeah 2010-09-10T15:54:18 This of course, is a good argument for contestants running their programs locally like on dhartmei's server. 2010-09-10T15:54:22 i can't do much more than that 2010-09-10T15:54:37 mightybyte: yeah, but sometimes things just happen on the server and you can't duplicate it 2010-09-10T15:54:38 yeah, the problem is what you do when it doesn't work on the contest server but works on your own machine 2010-09-10T15:54:43 Right 2010-09-10T15:54:52 mightybyte: i had that issue a lot in the last one, mainly due to ghc version issues 2010-09-10T15:54:59 Like compiling and package versions. 2010-09-10T15:55:13 i couldn't get 6.8.2 to build locally, and i could get 6.10 or 6.12 to build on the server :( 2010-09-10T15:55:18 *couldn't 2010-09-10T15:55:23 at the very least the jar files should put the error in another log file 2010-09-10T15:56:58 Hmmm, looks like the ranking page is down again. 2010-09-10T15:59:04 wtfbbq dropped to 4th now at least 2010-09-10T15:59:16 wtfbbq is pretty good 2010-09-10T15:59:46 CAN I send more than one pw.IssueOrder() in a turn? 2010-09-10T15:59:50 *** kersny has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T15:59:56 tebele: you can send as many as you like 2010-09-10T16:00:06 oh 2010-09-10T16:00:20 hence the gigantic swarms you see 2010-09-10T16:08:04 *** JoeCroqueta has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T16:08:08 Hello 2010-09-10T16:08:36 *** Umsturz has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T16:09:04 *** JCS^ has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T16:09:07 your tiebreaker code might still need tweaking 2010-09-10T16:09:09 http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284148627|drewrobb0.2|wtfbbq 2010-09-10T16:09:16 turns 58-59 2010-09-10T16:10:31 awesome, i can even zoom dhartmei's visualizer in and out so it fits on my netbooks' screen 2010-09-10T16:11:44 sigh, another fix is in 2010-09-10T16:12:43 lol, just received a galcon email about the challenge 2010-09-10T16:13:08 yeah, looks like the tie isn't leaving the planet in control of its owner as it should 2010-09-10T16:13:32 JCS^: That's how I heard about it 2010-09-10T16:13:41 Glad they sent it out, this is pretty sweet 2010-09-10T16:14:29 Top 10 players: a1k0n(2884), albert(2816), seigen(2789), dmj111(2769), wtfbbq(2745), drewrobb(2727), Kavish(2695), zaphus(2632), cheese_bot(2628), vallde(2580) 2010-09-10T16:14:35 nice http://www.galcon.com/ 2010-09-10T16:15:28 awesome 2010-09-10T16:15:37 nice 2010-09-10T16:15:54 the news.yc and reddit stories didn't get any traction 2010-09-10T16:16:35 galcon is not quite tron 2010-09-10T16:17:22 yeah it doesn't have the 80s nostalgia effect 2010-09-10T16:17:27 Aha.. My viewer crashes because I assumed all the planets are updated per turn. Why is this not the case? 2010-09-10T16:17:32 i found it in the planet python rss feed... 2010-09-10T16:17:47 When is a planet updates in the demo format? 2010-09-10T16:17:51 updated* 2010-09-10T16:17:56 clearly it should be called 'the last starfighter challenge' 2010-09-10T16:18:24 next one will be optimizing rubik's cubes 2010-09-10T16:19:00 madsy: wut? planets are updated each turn 2010-09-10T16:19:20 first they grow by their growth if they're owned, then the incoming fleets are resolved 2010-09-10T16:19:52 a1k0n: I managed to generate a match here where some planets are missing. 2010-09-10T16:20:31 that's disturbing 2010-09-10T16:21:04 i love how we fix one bug and introduce two more 2010-09-10T16:22:14 *** quest88 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T16:22:14 Good news: I know how to minimize the number of bugs then! 2010-09-10T16:22:44 server's taking a beating it seems like ;) 2010-09-10T16:23:06 kirkeby, but the question is, after we have fixed infinitely many bugs, is the remaining bug count infinity or zero? :-) 2010-09-10T16:23:10 a1k0n: Nevermind, I had a brainfart 2010-09-10T16:23:23 i would be a lot more productive if the rankings updated less frequently 2010-09-10T16:24:25 hahah http://ai-contest.com/visualizer_canvas.php?game_id=4428792 2010-09-10T16:24:28 pay attention to the center 2010-09-10T16:24:43 *** mtcbot has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T16:25:01 lol 2010-09-10T16:25:13 damn it, i can't find the mistake 2010-09-10T16:25:26 Mathnerd314: you broke it! 2010-09-10T16:25:32 tebele: look at the numbers 2010-09-10T16:25:36 fleets of size 0? 2010-09-10T16:25:40 :) 2010-09-10T16:25:43 yup 2010-09-10T16:26:27 in my code 2010-09-10T16:26:30 in my bot 2010-09-10T16:26:33 decoy! 2010-09-10T16:26:38 it crashes, and i don't know why 2010-09-10T16:26:49 god that match slows my browser a little 2010-09-10T16:27:07 tebele: find it hurry the world is depending on you 2010-09-10T16:27:09 it would be interesting to try and find cases where optimal play involves taking defended planets with no growth rate 2010-09-10T16:27:12 *** Vio has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T16:27:13 hahaha 2010-09-10T16:27:14 lol both bots just left a neutral planet with 0 for most of the game 2010-09-10T16:27:30 wow, there is even grow rate graph 2010-09-10T16:27:34 yup 2010-09-10T16:27:42 except it's totals, not rate 2010-09-10T16:27:47 I see 2010-09-10T16:28:17 there are so many fleets in that match : 2010-09-10T16:28:17 rate = d(total) / dt, so it's more information! 2010-09-10T16:28:19 :o 2010-09-10T16:28:41 total is more information than rate 2010-09-10T16:28:50 total = integral(rate) + C 2010-09-10T16:28:53 rwallace: A countable infinity I would think. But that's not based on math, just on my experience with my own code :P 2010-09-10T16:28:55 the + C is extra info :) 2010-09-10T16:29:14 anyway... will that be introduced and benzedrine? :) 2010-09-10T16:29:14 jmcarthur: but we know C 2010-09-10T16:29:20 but we know what C is :) 2010-09-10T16:29:36 Zannick: it's only given if you look back at the first turn 2010-09-10T16:29:37 jmcaruther: I guess my meaning was ambiguous. 2010-09-10T16:29:50 jmcarthur: always 100 :P 2010-09-10T16:29:53 jmcaruther: I guess my meaning was I meant the current graph is more information than a rate graph. 2010-09-10T16:30:08 nice, win in 13 turns: http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284150211|drewrobb0.2|dhartmei 2010-09-10T16:30:26 that is invalid 2010-09-10T16:30:52 that should not be a win on that turn 2010-09-10T16:30:57 it was crash 2010-09-10T16:31:09 my bot has bugs 2010-09-10T16:31:10 of some sort 2010-09-10T16:31:35 oh potentially red launched ships when he didn't have planets 2010-09-10T16:31:37 ah, yes, i missed the 7 2010-09-10T16:32:00 also the 10, and the 11 and 19 and the two fives 2010-09-10T16:32:16 @later tell Mathnerd314 you broke it! (look at the middle) http://ai-contest.com/visualizer_canvas.php?game_id=4428792 2010-09-10T16:32:16 jmcarthur: The operation succeeded. 2010-09-10T16:32:22 no, if the growth gets added first the seven disapears 2010-09-10T16:32:26 the planet disapears 2010-09-10T16:33:01 right! 2010-09-10T16:33:04 it's a win :P 2010-09-10T16:33:09 but yeah, the 5 and 5 would give ships to that place, and if then blue would just abandon a planet, it could be back overtaken 2010-09-10T16:33:11 so not a win 2010-09-10T16:33:14 in console, you are informed about disconnect and stuff, but I can not find such info at the game list, not a big deal though since rating resets anyway. 2010-09-10T16:33:24 it will be a win 2010-09-10T16:33:27 but it is not a win 2010-09-10T16:33:30 blue could play really bad, and still lose :p 2010-09-10T16:33:41 dhartmei: does your server have logs anywhere? 2010-09-10T16:33:51 *** mistabell_ has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-10T16:33:52 i should really be logging my games somewhere 2010-09-10T16:34:16 not beyond the data stored for the canvas replay 2010-09-10T16:34:21 there are so many problems with the engines ;_; 2010-09-10T16:34:43 there's no problem with the official engine :) 2010-09-10T16:34:54 it doesn't yet tell you why you lost 2010-09-10T16:35:18 the official engine isn't even running the updated 3-way resolution code 2010-09-10T16:35:39 hence there are no problems :P 2010-09-10T16:36:37 ok, first time I submitted my code to the official site 2010-09-10T16:36:42 *** dhartmei has quit IRC (Quit: bbl) 2010-09-10T16:36:43 how long does it take to process? 2010-09-10T16:36:55 JensT1: it can take a while 2010-09-10T16:37:00 haven't gotten a mail in 20mins 2010-09-10T16:37:04 it shouldn't say 5mins then 2010-09-10T16:37:12 JensT1: i know :\ 2010-09-10T16:37:22 but appart from that, ok, fine :) 2010-09-10T16:37:29 the email stuff is pretty broken on the server i think 2010-09-10T16:37:42 it may have just tried and failed to send it 2010-09-10T16:37:52 *** quest88 has left #aichallenge 2010-09-10T16:38:03 *** avorntur has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T16:38:04 well,I'm not getting any games 2010-09-10T16:38:10 so I think it's not started yet :) 2010-09-10T16:38:11 games are what i meant take a while 2010-09-10T16:38:18 cool cool, I'll wait 2010-09-10T16:38:19 the compilation and stuff is actually pretty quick 2010-09-10T16:38:32 so if you didn't get anything it's because the mail sending is busted 2010-09-10T16:38:51 I had a little question... when your program runs on the server, is it one instance per round or per game? 2010-09-10T16:38:56 when you submit, does your bot play against all bots or how is that done? 2010-09-10T16:39:04 Palmik: currently, random bots 2010-09-10T16:39:08 avorntur: per game 2010-09-10T16:39:09 I didn't get mail, but it compiled fine. 2010-09-10T16:39:12 Palmik: eventually, bots near your rank 2010-09-10T16:39:16 JensT1: ty, great news :) 2010-09-10T16:39:33 jmcarthur, ok, thanks :) 2010-09-10T16:39:46 they entire environment is recreated for each game 2010-09-10T16:40:35 which is just a new directory actually, not an entire virtual machine 2010-09-10T16:40:41 think that would be to costly 2010-09-10T16:40:53 http://ai-contest.com/advanced_strategy_guide.php he got nothin :/ 2010-09-10T16:40:53 but they do have the code for that 2010-09-10T16:44:07 I guess the bots play continually even if no new bot is added, right? 2010-09-10T16:46:28 *** Vio has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-09-10T16:49:13 yeah 2010-09-10T16:49:40 although i think if it's not already doing this it will eventually be prioritizing newer bots over older ones 2010-09-10T16:50:05 but older ones will still get to play sometimes too, afaik 2010-09-10T16:50:07 hmm... I uploaded wrong version on the server and then uploaded the right one, hope they will not even try to compile the old one... 2010-09-10T16:50:38 new goes even for new bots by the same user I guess 2010-09-10T16:51:06 the server stops playing bots once you submit a new version 2010-09-10T16:51:07 yeah 2010-09-10T16:51:13 . 2010-09-10T16:51:19 thanks :) 2010-09-10T16:51:29 "older" bots as in bots without recent games are the ones prioritized 2010-09-10T16:51:37 but this is not in trunk yet 2010-09-10T16:52:03 jmcarthur: so I'm sending out my 0-ships from my 0-planet? 2010-09-10T16:52:18 Mathnerd314: at least apparently. it could be an engine or visualizer bug 2010-09-10T16:52:38 actually, i didn't check on the java visualizer 2010-09-10T16:52:55 on benzedrine it's treated as illegal move (sending 0size fleets) iirc 2010-09-10T16:53:32 maybe the moves were illegal for some othe reason though 2010-09-10T16:53:32 the java viz does it too 2010-09-10T16:53:37 ah 2010-09-10T16:53:41 btw, sending more ships than a planet has makes you surrender 2010-09-10T16:53:55 without an errror/warning 2010-09-10T16:53:59 *** Vio has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T16:54:03 yea, but sending 0 ships doesn't fit that criterion ;) 2010-09-10T16:54:22 right, but it should be illegal 2010-09-10T16:54:25 ye, but I just mentioned it because it was something that took some debugging :P 2010-09-10T16:54:45 Zannick: or it shouls just be ignored 2010-09-10T16:54:45 it should be illegal in the same sense that src==dst should be illegal 2010-09-10T16:55:03 is that illegal? 2010-09-10T16:55:12 i was convinced by antimatroid1 that this kind of stuff should be illegal to prevent this situation: 2010-09-10T16:55:17 ignored, right 2010-09-10T16:55:32 I just realized that that occurs in my program 2010-09-10T16:55:36 src==dst 2010-09-10T16:55:40 if people see that spamming tiny fleets everywhere causes their opponents to spend more time processesing it, people will do it 2010-09-10T16:55:43 you could spam your opponent with such actions, which would mean more calculations or whatever for him 2010-09-10T16:55:50 you beat me to it :P 2010-09-10T16:56:08 while i think that may be an interesting tactic, it isn't in the spirit of this contest, IMO 2010-09-10T16:56:32 I think it would violate the spirit of fair and sportsmanlike competition :D 2010-09-10T16:56:35 just like i think it would be interesting for your bot to try hacking the server and controlling its opponent 2010-09-10T16:56:44 ... just not really the right thing to do :) 2010-09-10T16:57:05 well, IMO, the competition should be as forgiving as it can to people's bots 2010-09-10T16:57:10 That is also not allowed and the policy is to always prosecute is such thing were to happen :D 2010-09-10T16:57:19 i think allowing bots to be spammed hard is unforgiving 2010-09-10T16:57:44 Mathnerd314, allow it maybe... bot do not send it as a command to the enemy 2010-09-10T16:57:48 basically i just think 0 sized fleets should be ignored, src==dst should be ignored, and multiple fleets with the same sources and destinations should be ignored 2010-09-10T16:57:56 like... you can issue such order, but it whould be filtered out 2010-09-10T16:57:57 but you shouldn't be punished for those, on the other hand 2010-09-10T16:58:02 err 2010-09-10T16:58:11 that last one shouldn't be ignore. they should be merged, is what i meant 2010-09-10T16:59:05 basically the engine should just send minimal information 2010-09-10T16:59:38 @later tell amstan i think proggit simply screwed up and isn't showing your submission. maybe we should try again later 2010-09-10T16:59:38 jmcarthur: The operation succeeded. 2010-09-10T16:59:51 jmcarthur: i noticed 2010-09-10T17:00:30 delete and try again, i suggest 2010-09-10T17:00:50 i also have meant to submit to the haskell reddit 2010-09-10T17:02:09 alright, it's in the haskell one 2010-09-10T17:02:18 *** JoeCroqueta has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-10T17:02:46 I added a link in our`s company internal site/forum 2010-09-10T17:03:21 is anyone doing a go version already btw? 2010-09-10T17:04:15 jmcarthur: nah.. it fails.. 2010-09-10T17:04:41 jmcarthur: that link has already been submitted, but you can try to submit it again. 2010-09-10T17:04:46 well, it's on the haskell reddit now at least 2010-09-10T17:04:53 did you delete the old one? 2010-09-10T17:04:57 yeah 2010-09-10T17:04:58 you may have to wait for a minute or two 2010-09-10T17:05:03 it keeps pointing me to the one 8 days ago 2010-09-10T17:05:08 gah 2010-09-10T17:05:16 try adding a # or ? to the url? 2010-09-10T17:05:17 submit it again makes it go to reddit.com 2010-09-10T17:06:03 amstan: http://ai-contest.com/?begin will probably work 2010-09-10T17:06:11 jmcarthur: try this: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/dc94i/google_ai_challenge_planet_wars_is_now_open/ 2010-09-10T17:06:16 jmcarthur: can you find it? 2010-09-10T17:06:37 amstan: it appears on the new links page 2010-09-10T17:06:46 cool 2010-09-10T17:06:47 yeah i see it 2010-09-10T17:06:50 on the main proggit as well 2010-09-10T17:07:04 everybody here should upvote that 2010-09-10T17:07:05 contestbot, rankings 2010-09-10T17:07:06 Palmik: Top 10 players: dmj111(2882), a1k0n(2862), albert(2803), seigen(2764), rodrigoolmo(2734), wtfbbq(2712), drewrobb(2701), zaphus(2596), cheese_bot(2591), i02agsij(2572) 2010-09-10T17:07:11 reddit was a big source of traffic last time 2010-09-10T17:07:26 a1k0n: zomg, someone beat you 2010-09-10T17:08:12 yay! 2010-09-10T17:08:18 i mean... sorry a1k0n :) 2010-09-10T17:08:20 jmcarthur: let's hope the servers can hold 2010-09-10T17:08:25 server* 2010-09-10T17:08:35 i predict something bad is going to happen 2010-09-10T17:08:37 lol 2010-09-10T17:08:56 "Given 'er all she's got, Captain!" 2010-09-10T17:08:57 jmcarthur: I'll bet that a1k0n is happy that he isn't winning :p 2010-09-10T17:09:02 probably 2010-09-10T17:09:42 *** Naktibalda has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T17:09:47 *** Doctor has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-10T17:09:51 hi 2010-09-10T17:10:42 *** zaphus has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T17:10:59 Will the canvas visualiser be made default eventually? Only stopper I can think of is that someone might have some ancient browser, but also not everyone has a java in their browsers. 2010-09-10T17:11:14 Palmik: i think that's the plan 2010-09-10T17:11:31 great then :) 2010-09-10T17:11:37 Palmik: or IE 2010-09-10T17:13:03 i.e. ancient in new looking robe :P 2010-09-10T17:13:23 amstan: you should install varnish. at least if game visualizations hit db, etc. 2010-09-10T17:13:23 Morning all. How is it all going ? Did any major bugs show up 2010-09-10T17:13:25 sometimes not even that :) 2010-09-10T17:13:38 zerd: put it on the issues list 2010-09-10T17:14:30 Top 10 players: dmj111(2889), a1k0n(2869), albert(2806), seigen(2766), rodrigoolmo(2741), drewrobb(2701), zaphus(2602), cheese_bot(2591), i02agsij(2577), DaTwinkDaddy(2567) 2010-09-10T17:15:20 what was the final number of contestants last time and what do you think it will be this time? 2010-09-10T17:15:25 *** Vio has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-09-10T17:15:37 idk, a lot, ask j3camero 2010-09-10T17:15:45 Palmik: depends who you ask 2010-09-10T17:16:03 *** kersny has quit IRC (Quit: I'm Out) 2010-09-10T17:16:06 Palmik: j3camero will say 1200 working bots, but i think quite a few of those were just starters 2010-09-10T17:16:10 jmcarthur, whoever is willing to answer :) 2010-09-10T17:16:21 hmm, I see 2010-09-10T17:16:22 Palmik: i think the final list had 700-800 2010-09-10T17:16:23 Palmik: the old rankings are still up: http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/contest/rankings.php 2010-09-10T17:16:29 after we removed some starters 2010-09-10T17:16:40 708 there 2010-09-10T17:16:44 what are the max dimensions of the map? 2010-09-10T17:16:50 hornairs: limitless! 2010-09-10T17:16:55 well shit 2010-09-10T17:16:58 a1k0n: zomg, you're from that town from the 70s show 2010-09-10T17:17:09 hornairs: does that actually affect your strategy somehow? 2010-09-10T17:17:27 yeah because i can only afford to look ahead so many turns 2010-09-10T17:17:30 In the C++ starter pack ints are used for the positions 2010-09-10T17:17:33 oh i see 2010-09-10T17:17:35 *** Vio has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T17:17:38 and some fleet travel times are going to be so long 2010-09-10T17:17:42 So I'm assuming that limits the positions 2010-09-10T17:17:46 Nice, 3 fellow countrymen in top 100 of last competition :) 2010-09-10T17:18:01 hornairs: there's a current max turn limit of 200 at least 2010-09-10T17:18:14 jmcarthur ok thanks for the help 2010-09-10T17:18:15 Not really limitless surely. If all planets are 500 units apart, a 200 turn game will be dull 2010-09-10T17:18:25 *** mtcbot has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-10T17:18:28 200 moves deep is very deep anyway, but at least it's something 2010-09-10T17:18:38 hornairs: don't take that 200 as gospel. it's not set in stone yet 2010-09-10T17:18:43 kk 2010-09-10T17:18:46 i wish it was 2010-09-10T17:18:55 @rank 2010-09-10T17:18:55 bss03: Error: The command "rank" is available in the Alias, ChannelStats, and Factoids plugins. Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "rank". 2010-09-10T17:18:57 because that affects my strategy a *lot* 2010-09-10T17:18:59 rank 2010-09-10T17:19:07 @alias rank 2010-09-10T17:19:08 bss03: Top 10 players: a1k0n(2871), dmj111(2852), albert(2809), seigen(2771), drewrobb(2703), zaphus(2602), cheese_bot(2599), i02agsij(2581), DaTwinkDaddy(2571), vortex(2556) 2010-09-10T17:19:14 Woot! :P 2010-09-10T17:19:46 wow... everlasting battle for 1st position :D 2010-09-10T17:19:59 it will be that way for two months 2010-09-10T17:20:14 oh, looks like leaderboard doesn't support firefox :) 2010-09-10T17:20:26 it should 2010-09-10T17:20:44 Natktibalda: Turn off AdBlock. 2010-09-10T17:20:45 jmcarthur: no, it will be that way until I finish my bot; then I'll just be first :p 2010-09-10T17:20:46 Naktibalda, AdBlock does not like leaderbord 2010-09-10T17:20:49 ah 2010-09-10T17:21:05 * Palmik slaps Mathnerd314 around a bit with a chainsaw 2010-09-10T17:21:06 :D 2010-09-10T17:21:08 Naktibalda: it works in mine 2010-09-10T17:21:21 wait, why does adblock not like it? 2010-09-10T17:21:59 it probably comes from some hideous source :D 2010-09-10T17:22:29 alright, I have a nice working version of my bot ready :) 2010-09-10T17:22:31 let's go 2010-09-10T17:22:48 adblock has no problem with the leaderbord for me 2010-09-10T17:22:57 what filter are you using? 2010-09-10T17:23:19 I!m using rekonq with adblock and I am fine as well 2010-09-10T17:23:29 *I'm 2010-09-10T17:23:41 Palmik: dvorak? 2010-09-10T17:23:47 I'm using AdBlock and NoScript in Iceweasel and the leaderboard works fine for me 2010-09-10T17:24:14 avorntur, you mean the filter? 2010-09-10T17:24:16 Mathnerd314: yeah, until i finish mine :P 2010-09-10T17:24:36 Palmik: I meant your keyboard layout :P 2010-09-10T17:24:37 Mathnerd314: i'm trying to stick to a every-other-day dev schedule, so it will be a bit slow coming 2010-09-10T17:24:49 That is, until mine's done :p 2010-09-10T17:25:00 avorntur, dunno how it's called, not the us/gb one though xD 2010-09-10T17:25:02 yes, it blocks ##.leaderboard 2010-09-10T17:25:03 Mathnerd314: you're using java. you can't win 2010-09-10T17:25:16 jmcarthur: I'll switch to Haskell if I have to :-) 2010-09-10T17:25:25 "if you have to" bah! 2010-09-10T17:25:27 g2g eat 2010-09-10T17:25:34 avorntur, but yeah, ! and ' are next to each other :) 2010-09-10T17:25:54 hehe 2010-09-10T17:26:31 *** zaphus has quit IRC (Quit: Bye) 2010-09-10T17:27:06 jmcarthur: have you written/used any monads (other than IO) yet? 2010-09-10T17:27:08 *** tebele has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-10T17:27:56 jmcarthur: s/monads/functors/ 2010-09-10T17:30:45 jmcarthur: I think he's gone, but I'm sure he's used State, Reader, and maybe Writer monads 2010-09-10T17:30:55 Er, I meant Mathnerd314 ^^ 2010-09-10T17:31:32 Mathnerd314: Probably even uses the list and Maybe types Monadicly from time to time. 2010-09-10T17:36:46 ahhh, i`ve gone to the second page. Probably it is time to think by myself instead of relying on the guides :) 2010-09-10T17:38:02 @rankings 2010-09-10T17:38:13 amstan: Error: There was a problem accessing the rankings page. 2010-09-10T17:38:19 hehe 2010-09-10T17:38:21 @rankings 2010-09-10T17:38:32 amstan: Top 10 players: dmj111(2882), a1k0n(2864), albert(2799), seigen(2765), Cpt_Keen(2715), drewrobb(2694), cheese_bot(2608), _simu_(2605), zaphus(2594), mewotwo(2592) 2010-09-10T17:38:52 *** stef2n has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2010-09-10T17:40:27 *** powhatanbob_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-10T17:42:46 Is a planet supposed to be able to go neutral if forces cancel each other out? 2010-09-10T17:43:06 *** hornairs has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-09-10T17:43:38 only if it was neutral before battle 2010-09-10T17:44:17 should stay the original owner... some versions are bugged 2010-09-10T17:44:20 the rule is that the planet will stay with the same owner and 0 ships 2010-09-10T17:44:20 amstan: did you ever dump the db schema ? 2010-09-10T17:44:30 amstan: what, oconomowoc? 2010-09-10T17:44:32 contestbot: what dbsample 2010-09-10T17:44:32 amstan: Error: No factoid matches that key. 2010-09-10T17:44:38 contestbot: factoid search * 2010-09-10T17:44:39 amstan: Error: "factoid" is not a valid command. 2010-09-10T17:44:43 contestbot: factoids search * 2010-09-10T17:44:43 amstan: 'botdoc', 'botrepo', 'bottopic', 'forums', 'issues', 'newlanguage', 'repo', 'repository', 'sampledb', and 'visualizer' 2010-09-10T17:44:50 ha, i knew dmj111 would beat my bot 2010-09-10T17:44:51 contestbot: what sampledb 2010-09-10T17:44:51 amstan: sampledb = http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~amstan/aichallenge/sample.sql 2010-09-10T17:44:57 danielvf: ^^ 2010-09-10T17:44:58 Thanks 2010-09-10T17:45:48 *** Zaphus has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T17:48:20 amstan: I posted PHP starter package 3 days ago. Any chance that it will be accepted? 2010-09-10T17:48:30 amstan: What time does jeff show up on here? 2010-09-10T17:48:41 danielvf: idk.. around 6 2010-09-10T17:48:43 7 2010-09-10T17:48:47 contestbot: time 2010-09-10T17:48:47 amstan: 05:48 PM, September 10, 2010 2010-09-10T17:48:49 Okayy 2010-09-10T17:48:57 *okay 2010-09-10T17:49:03 *** evgenius has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T17:49:07 Naktibalda: was there actually a starter package? or just a suggestion? 2010-09-10T17:49:46 http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=434 2010-09-10T17:50:38 amstan: the sample db is superb, thank you 2010-09-10T17:50:39 Naktibalda: cool, let me put it on the list 2010-09-10T17:51:12 hey guys, I got a questions... some of you are always talking about how the engine should ignore two fleets leaving the same source planet for the same destination... is that something that will be implemented at one point? 2010-09-10T17:51:13 a1k0n: yes.. it took me forever to get it 2010-09-10T17:51:21 a1k0n: just remember that there's no emails, passwords and hashes 2010-09-10T17:51:30 i see that. :) 2010-09-10T17:52:06 the playback_string should really, really not be in that table 2010-09-10T17:52:09 but yeah, it took me forever to get it 2010-09-10T17:52:24 the whole db is 700mb big 2010-09-10T17:52:36 i had to get them separate and all that 2010-09-10T17:52:41 how big is games.MYD 2010-09-10T17:53:01 well.. i took only like 5 rows from games 2010-09-10T17:53:12 and the size for the db is now 2.2mb 2010-09-10T17:53:14 i know, but how big is it now? 2010-09-10T17:53:28 for how many games played? 2010-09-10T17:53:34 hold on, cd /var/lib/mysql 2010-09-10T17:53:44 select count(*) from games 2010-09-10T17:53:53 i can't cd into it 2010-09-10T17:53:59 oh lame 2010-09-10T17:54:07 but you have the mysqldump i take it 2010-09-10T17:54:18 nope 2010-09-10T17:54:44 nvm, i do: -rw-r--r-- 1 amstan amstan 695M 2010-09-10 00:14 db.sql 2010-09-10T17:55:02 should of been deleted yesterday 2010-09-10T17:55:22 count(*) 269913 2010-09-10T17:55:45 what is the point of leaderboards? 2010-09-10T17:56:03 a1k0n: there's a script which takes all the games and calculates rankings 2010-09-10T17:56:07 then dumps them into leaderboards 2010-09-10T17:56:13 and rankings 2010-09-10T17:56:16 rankings.php reads leaderboards 2010-09-10T17:56:24 it appears leaderboards is used to determine which is the most recent set of ranking 2010-09-10T17:56:28 oh.. 2010-09-10T17:56:30 yeah 2010-09-10T17:56:31 nvm 2010-09-10T17:56:33 you're right 2010-09-10T17:56:39 it's jeff's system 2010-09-10T17:57:34 notice how in the games table.. there's games from may 2010-09-10T17:57:41 i don't think jeff pruned them. 2010-09-10T17:58:02 we need a cleanup script 2010-09-10T17:58:04 Hey guys, an idea for the leaderboards page: Add some overall stats figures: Total games played, total players, total ships destroyed (if we could track that) not per user, just overall - would be cool to see 2010-09-10T17:58:14 Zaphus: VV 2010-09-10T17:58:18 contestbot: where issues 2010-09-10T17:58:18 amstan: issues = http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/list 2010-09-10T17:58:42 *** Apophis has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-09-10T18:00:13 contestbot: where repo 2010-09-10T18:00:13 amstan: repo = http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/ 2010-09-10T18:06:58 This probably is in the FAQ, but what is the hardest example bot? 2010-09-10T18:08:07 danielvf: DuelBot AFAIK 2010-09-10T18:08:25 Mathnerd314: Thanks 2010-09-10T18:08:56 Know of any hard open source ones I can fight localy? 2010-09-10T18:09:06 *** seigen has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T18:09:14 danielvf: Check the rankings, the Starterpack_Dual and Starterpack_Rage are in there, gives you an idea of their strength (even if I used the wrong spelling of Duel) 2010-09-10T18:09:21 my bot should be an example bot 2010-09-10T18:09:29 Thanks 2010-09-10T18:09:39 Looks like the launch has gone really well! Congratulations! 2010-09-10T18:09:44 everyone should be able to beat copybot 2010-09-10T18:09:53 They are at 64 and 86 respectively (the starterpacks) 2010-09-10T18:10:21 It'd be really nice if it told me why I lose at random, it's not crashing or timing out.. just ending. 2010-09-10T18:10:31 ermau: have you tried the tcp server? 2010-09-10T18:10:40 My bot crashed in a game and after watching the replay a few times I realized that in the last 3-4 turns my fleets disappear when they "collide?" at the center of the map, was that a bug? ok, never mind, there's a little planet at the center of the map, sry 2010-09-10T18:10:50 seigen: I have not 2010-09-10T18:11:22 ermau: it's very nice, because you run your code locally and connect to the engine, so you can display whatever debugging information you want to stderr 2010-09-10T18:12:00 i'm using python, for instance, and PlayGame.jar would swallow whatever stacktraces happened when i blew things up 2010-09-10T18:12:12 give it ago 2010-09-10T18:12:31 contestbot: tcpserver 2010-09-10T18:12:32 seigen: Error: "tcpserver" is not a valid command. 2010-09-10T18:12:35 contestbot: help 2010-09-10T18:12:35 seigen: (help [] []) -- This command gives a useful description of what does. is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin. 2010-09-10T18:12:39 contestbot: list 2010-09-10T18:12:39 seigen: AIChallenge, Admin, Alias, BadWords, Channel, ChannelLogger, ChannelStats, Config, Ctcp, Dict, Dunno, Factoids, Filter, Format, Games, Google, Herald, Internet, Later, Limiter, Math, Misc, Network, News, Note, Owner, Plugin, Quote, QuoteGrabs, RSS, Reply, Scheduler, Seen, Services, ShrinkUrl, Status, String, Success, Time, Todo, Topic, URL, Unix, User, Utilities, and Web 2010-09-10T18:13:01 contestbot: list news 2010-09-10T18:13:02 seigen: add, change, news, old, and remove 2010-09-10T18:13:11 contestbot: list dict 2010-09-10T18:13:11 seigen: dict, dictionaries, random, and synonym 2010-09-10T18:13:22 contestbot: list alias 2010-09-10T18:13:22 seigen: add, bye, hi, lock, rank, ranking, ranks, remove, slap, unlock, url, what, and where 2010-09-10T18:13:34 Zannick: copybot? 2010-09-10T18:13:35 danielvf: couldn't you just use the tcpserver? why do you need the source of the opponents? 2010-09-10T18:13:39 contestbot: what tcpserver 2010-09-10T18:13:39 seigen: Error: No factoid matches that key. 2010-09-10T18:13:49 contestbot: what tcp 2010-09-10T18:13:49 seigen: Error: No factoid matches that key. 2010-09-10T18:13:52 Naktibalda: can you make an issue about the php? 2010-09-10T18:13:54 Mathnerd314: just to run locally over and over 2010-09-10T18:13:59 seigen: it's not in there 2010-09-10T18:14:02 I do so many stupid coding things 2010-09-10T18:14:13 that I'd rather not even wait for the tcp bot 2010-09-10T18:14:19 contestbot: learn tcpserver as http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/ 2010-09-10T18:14:19 amstan: The operation succeeded. 2010-09-10T18:14:28 danielvf: then fight against old versions of your bot 2010-09-10T18:14:29 amstan: thanks! didn't remember the command 2010-09-10T18:14:30 Top 10 players: a1k0n(2882), dmj111(2831), albert(2815), seigen(2784), drewrobb(2722), mewotwo(2621), zaphus(2613), Kavish(2594), cheese_bot(2590), vortex(2577) 2010-09-10T18:14:36 avorntur: the bot running as bswolf on the official server copies what its opponent does 2010-09-10T18:14:38 Math, good idea 2010-09-10T18:15:00 a1k0n, still my nemesis :) 2010-09-10T18:15:10 Zannick: with 1 turn delay or... what? 2010-09-10T18:15:30 yeah, there's a 1 turn delay cause i can't know what they do at the same time they do it 2010-09-10T18:15:48 it wins sometimes 2010-09-10T18:15:50 else you'd prolly tie? :P 2010-09-10T18:15:56 can you link to it's profile page? 2010-09-10T18:16:22 http://ai-contest.com/profile.php?user_id=3886 2010-09-10T18:16:30 but afaik, when you send fleet with totalTripLegth == 1, it's not shown in the Fleets 2010-09-10T18:17:18 too bad you can't force a match between two profiles :( 2010-09-10T18:17:31 could test versus a friend, and copybot :p 2010-09-10T18:17:48 actually, anyone know if there are plans to make the tournament manager pair within elo bands? 2010-09-10T18:18:02 bands? 2010-09-10T18:18:21 the pipelined improvement does rank +/- n 2010-09-10T18:19:16 @yay 2010-09-10T18:19:16 Double rainbow all the way! 2010-09-10T18:19:48 *** Vio has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-09-10T18:20:05 I wish there was a way to show my history against a single bot, so I could see if the latest result was an anomoly or not. actually if there was a way to show the list sorted alphabetically it would give me that info (alphabetically first, then reverse time order second) 2010-09-10T18:21:17 *** amstan sets mode: -c 2010-09-10T18:21:18 *** ChanServ sets mode: +c 2010-09-10T18:21:28 im trying to get this to work on windows, however my bot keeps crashing for some reason, but works just fine in linux and osx 2010-09-10T18:21:38 http://pastebin.com/3Kcrj1wC 2010-09-10T18:21:41 is the error 2010-09-10T18:22:16 java -jar tools/PlayGame.jar maps/map61.txt 1000 1000 log.txt "python stupidbot.py" "java -jar example_bots/RageBot.jar" | java -jar tools/ShowGame.jar is the command i ran 2010-09-10T18:22:46 avorntur: you can always test against your friends just by asking them to send you their .exe / .jar / .whatever and do it locally. *if* you trust them not to put trojan evilwhere in it 2010-09-10T18:23:24 Zaphus: we both use python, though I guess the pyc would be relatively closed 2010-09-10T18:23:34 *** amstan sets mode: -c 2010-09-10T18:23:38 copybot is really easy to implement 2010-09-10T18:23:53 dstufft: Heres a helpful hint, make log.txt be mylog.txt or *any* other name, because showgame overwrites log.txt - very annoying 2010-09-10T18:24:02 dstufft: you need tools\PlayGame etc 2010-09-10T18:24:09 not / on windows, but \ 2010-09-10T18:24:11 ;) 2010-09-10T18:24:11 er 2010-09-10T18:24:14 yea dumb 2010-09-10T18:24:54 *** aerique has quit IRC (Quit: ...) 2010-09-10T18:25:30 Aha! Thanks, that actually answered my problem 2010-09-10T18:26:13 java -jar tools\PlayGame.jar maps\map61.txt 1000 1000 mylog.txt "python stupidbot.py" "java -jar example_bots\RageBot.jar" | java -jar tools\ShowGame.jar 2010-09-10T18:26:16 still crashed 2010-09-10T18:26:34 dstufft: does it work for ragebot vs ragebot 2010-09-10T18:27:02 dstufft: dus python stupidbot.py just work? 2010-09-10T18:27:14 is python in your path? 2010-09-10T18:27:44 *** Kastra has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T18:28:19 Zannick: (from previously) yeah, rank +/- n. Bands is more like a swiss-mcmahon thing 2010-09-10T18:28:24 dstufft: do "python MyBot.py < test.txt", where test.txt contains a map, with at the end on a new line the word 'go' 2010-09-10T18:28:25 but it's pretty much the same 2010-09-10T18:28:34 dstufft: helps a lot with debugging 2010-09-10T18:30:06 dstufft: ehm, stupidbot.py instead of MyBot.py ofcourse, in your situation :P 2010-09-10T18:30:43 *** ratatata has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T18:30:47 *** Palmik has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-09-10T18:31:03 *** Racko has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2010-09-10T18:31:09 *** Racko has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T18:31:56 is there any sort of prize for winning? 2010-09-10T18:32:14 ah apparently the starter kit bot i got (unoffical) uses SIGALRM 2010-09-10T18:32:18 which doesn't exist on windows 2010-09-10T18:33:21 *** FlagCapper has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T18:33:44 Guest77645: you will be referenced to google, ask a1k0n what kind of reputation he got for winning 2010-09-10T18:34:26 you will probably be referred 2010-09-10T18:34:27 what kind is it? 2010-09-10T18:34:36 referenced is an entirely different thing ;) 2010-09-10T18:34:43 Zannick: oh, sorry 2010-09-10T18:34:45 lol 2010-09-10T18:35:08 *** smhanov_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-10T18:35:15 *** choas has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2010-09-10T18:37:01 @yay 2010-09-10T18:37:01 Double rainbow all the way! 2010-09-10T18:38:05 pretty colors 8) 2010-09-10T18:38:37 oh dear 2010-09-10T18:39:01 @rainbow chicken 2010-09-10T18:39:01 Kastra: chicken 2010-09-10T18:40:02 heh, it's actually trying to color the spaceas 2010-09-10T18:40:05 * spaces 2010-09-10T18:40:39 is there something the matter with the uploading process or is it just not as snappy with sending the confirmation emails as it used to be? 2010-09-10T18:40:50 @rainbow rainbow 2010-09-10T18:40:50 Zaphus: rainbow 2010-09-10T18:40:52 server load, perhaps 2010-09-10T18:41:06 *** tebele has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T18:41:09 hi :) 2010-09-10T18:41:10 phreeza: used to be? 2010-09-10T18:41:26 phreeza: oh.. i think there's still an issue with the email sending from uploads 2010-09-10T18:41:31 earlier today I uploaded some versions of my bot and didn`t received confirmation mail 2010-09-10T18:41:33 amstan: 2 days ago i got my email straight away 2010-09-10T18:41:39 ok 2010-09-10T18:41:47 so do i 2010-09-10T18:41:48 I don't even get emails 2010-09-10T18:41:54 any confirmation mail recieved 2010-09-10T18:42:17 contestbot: topic add There is still an issue with the email sending for code compiling, stay stuned. 2010-09-10T18:42:18 *** contestbot changes topic to "Official Google AI Challenge: http://ai-contest.com/ || http://contestbot.hypertriangle.com/ || Developers wanted, contact j3camero. || Registration is now open! || There is still an issue with the email sending for code compiling, stay stuned." 2010-09-10T18:42:24 aha alright alls well then i guess 2010-09-10T18:42:27 and the time between the last submission and the first match is so looooong 2010-09-10T18:42:33 stuned. 2010-09-10T18:42:42 stay stunned! 2010-09-10T18:42:55 What is the tcp sever thing I have seen some people talk about? 2010-09-10T18:42:57 amstan: ETA to fixing still 3 hours-ish? http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=479&start=20#p2803 2010-09-10T18:43:12 Mathnerd314: when jeff comes back 2010-09-10T18:43:31 icefox: http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/ 2010-09-10T18:43:34 it rocks 2010-09-10T18:44:34 j3camero: I'm seeing some draw's that aren't actuall draws 2010-09-10T18:44:41 interesting, I will have to investigate it 2010-09-10T18:44:47 JensT1: write a patch 2010-09-10T18:44:50 they happen when the ssh's connection breaks 2010-09-10T18:45:08 ssh? what? 2010-09-10T18:45:21 tournament manager uses ssh to connect to a jail where the user is in 2010-09-10T18:45:26 icefox: it lets you run your bot against others from your local machine, a lot better for debugging etc, because you can get logs 2010-09-10T18:45:27 (on localhost) 2010-09-10T18:45:28 oh, ok 2010-09-10T18:45:42 phreeza: no, not that 2010-09-10T18:45:49 *** Kastra has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2010-09-10T18:45:51 on the actuall server 2010-09-10T18:46:15 they show up like this http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=4431723 2010-09-10T18:46:16 JensT1: i was just talking about tcpserver to icefox 2010-09-10T18:46:25 phreeza: yeah, sorry, vnmd :p 2010-09-10T18:46:31 @tell icefox [where tcpserver] 2010-09-10T18:46:47 So what ip/port do I use and just pick a username? 2010-09-10T18:46:50 icefox: did that work? 2010-09-10T18:46:58 phreeza 2010-09-10T18:47:02 *** mega1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-09-10T18:47:03 sent me the link that phreeza sent me 2010-09-10T18:47:07 how does this server works? 2010-09-10T18:47:21 this one: http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/ 2010-09-10T18:47:25 how does it works? 2010-09-10T18:47:32 icefox: cool. 2010-09-10T18:47:43 @echo Mathnerd314 [where tcpserver] 2010-09-10T18:47:43 Mathnerd314 tcpserver = http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/ 2010-09-10T18:47:52 *** hornairs has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T18:47:52 oh, more useful :p 2010-09-10T18:47:57 icefox: it says in the comment at the beginning of the sourcefile 2010-09-10T18:48:03 Mathnerd314: i can make an alias for it 2010-09-10T18:48:13 amstan: sounds good. 2010-09-10T18:48:20 how to connect using tcp.c??? 2010-09-10T18:48:25 tebele: you download the client and compile it 2010-09-10T18:48:34 *** hornairs has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2010-09-10T18:48:37 which program to compile it? 2010-09-10T18:48:43 Mathnerd314: give me a semantic name though 2010-09-10T18:48:52 gcc, it says in the source file 2010-09-10T18:48:57 tebele: cygwin if you're on windows 2010-09-10T18:49:08 in ubuntu?= 2010-09-10T18:49:11 gcc 2010-09-10T18:49:16 *** _habnabit <_habnabit!~ferazel@bean.habnabit.org> has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T18:49:21 Mathnerd314, bss03: once you've used haskell enough you're using to using monads pretty much everywhere 2010-09-10T18:49:33 *** hornairs has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T18:49:40 gcc what? 2010-09-10T18:49:43 best to read the comment in tcp.c 2010-09-10T18:49:46 it says there 2010-09-10T18:49:54 gcc tcp.c? 2010-09-10T18:49:58 amstan: IMO tell should be what I wanted, current @tell should be @msg 2010-09-10T18:50:00 tcp -o tcp tcp.c 2010-09-10T18:50:04 eh 2010-09-10T18:50:04 or gcc server.tar.gz? 2010-09-10T18:50:07 <_habnabit> Anyone working on an alternate visualizer for the playback data? I was going to start on writing one in javascript. 2010-09-10T18:50:11 haha 2010-09-10T18:50:12 the first should be gcc 2010-09-10T18:50:16 not tcp 2010-09-10T18:50:18 hehe 2010-09-10T18:50:24 gcc -o tcp tcpc 2010-09-10T18:50:27 tcp.c? 2010-09-10T18:50:30 yea 2010-09-10T18:50:33 _habnabit: there's a canvas one on the site 2010-09-10T18:50:38 <_habnabit> Zannick, oh, where? 2010-09-10T18:50:44 jmcarthur: but *which* monads are you using? 2010-09-10T18:50:48 if you change "visualizer" to "visualizer_canvas" on any game 2010-09-10T18:50:54 If you are so inclined, go digg up the link on Digg - the more the merrier (until the server dies anyway) http://digg.com/news/technology/google_ai_challenge_3 2010-09-10T18:51:34 Mathnerd314: that's kind of an odd question. i use any monad i want to 2010-09-10T18:51:37 <_habnabit> Awesome. 2010-09-10T18:51:48 * ermau thinks it's already dead 2010-09-10T18:51:49 nothing happens phreeza 2010-09-10T18:51:58 Mathnerd314: that's like asking which arithmetic operations i use 2010-09-10T18:52:17 jmcarthur: yes, it tells me how you're doing things but not what you're doing :p 2010-09-10T18:52:38 oh man.. this guy is so right: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/dc94i/google_ai_challenge_planet_wars_is_now_open/c0z4ger 2010-09-10T18:52:58 <_habnabit> Oh, and I improved the python starter pack a bunch. 2010-09-10T18:53:09 <_habnabit> Should I post that somewhere? 2010-09-10T18:53:17 i don't honestly know what google's role in this contest is 2010-09-10T18:53:42 amstan: do you get money/computers or just get to attach google's name for some reason? 2010-09-10T18:53:43 _habnabit: what did you change? 2010-09-10T18:53:48 please post somewhere : 2010-09-10T18:53:50 :) 2010-09-10T18:54:01 I guess they're just using the name of Google 2010-09-10T18:54:13 servers suck 2010-09-10T18:54:23 <_habnabit> JensT1, removed all the silly accessors; added __eq__ and __hash__; made things like Fleet.destination refer to planet objects instead of IDs. 2010-09-10T18:54:32 tebele: what do you mean nothing happened :D 2010-09-10T18:54:33 Mathnerd314: in my bot i'm currently using IO, Maybe, [], Vector (my own newtype around it that forms a monad, anyway), ((->) a), Monoid a => (,) a, Map (which would be a monad if its semantics were slightly different), and i'm sure various others 2010-09-10T18:54:36 you compiled it 2010-09-10T18:54:40 and now? 2010-09-10T18:54:50 I wrote gcc -o tcp tcp.c 2010-09-10T18:54:51 and now? 2010-09-10T18:55:05 now you run it. as i said, read the comment in the first 10 lines of the source 2010-09-10T18:55:12 Mathnerd314: that doesn't really say anything about how i'm doing stuff though 2010-09-10T18:55:19 _habnabit: yeah, the accessors just slow things down right? 2010-09-10T18:55:22 _habnabit: er, making it refer to objects or passing objects probably makes it less efficient 2010-09-10T18:55:28 <_habnabit> Zannick, oh no!!! 2010-09-10T18:55:34 Zannick: ask jeff, or look here: http://ai-contest.com/faq.php 2010-09-10T18:55:35 <_habnabit> Zannick, (also you're wrong, but.) 2010-09-10T18:55:59 *** evgenius has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-10T18:56:01 <_habnabit> JensT1, plus it's pointless. 2010-09-10T18:56:05 in some languages i'd be worried about copying the objects...but i don't know if that's always the case 2010-09-10T18:56:10 no, it's good practice :p 2010-09-10T18:56:21 amstan: the page is very vague 2010-09-10T18:56:26 <_habnabit> Zannick, maybe you're too used to php. Python never implicitly copies anything. 2010-09-10T18:56:37 python doesn't copy, unless asked to 2010-09-10T18:56:39 jmcarthur: yes it does... :-) 2010-09-10T18:56:39 i don't use php 2010-09-10T18:56:44 Zannick: i don't know more than that 2010-09-10T18:56:51 who has hn1? 2010-09-10T18:56:53 Mathnerd314: Vector is about the only telling things at all 2010-09-10T18:56:56 *thing 2010-09-10T18:56:58 <_habnabit> Well, php is the only language I know with crazy unpredictable copying semantics. 2010-09-10T18:57:04 i'm too used to c and java where it actually does copy 2010-09-10T18:57:07 <_habnabit> Oh, whoops, forgot about C++. 2010-09-10T18:57:08 WTF I see a lot of numbers :S 2010-09-10T18:57:19 <_habnabit> Nah, java's object model is identical to python's. 2010-09-10T18:57:22 <_habnabit> It doesn't copy either. 2010-09-10T18:57:55 C and C++ don't copy when you use pass-by-reference, and they only copy pointers when you pass pointers of course 2010-09-10T18:58:08 hell yeah my coworker uploaded a bot 2010-09-10T18:58:08 rather than copying the data in the heap 2010-09-10T18:58:12 woot 2010-09-10T18:58:16 now you can beat him down 2010-09-10T18:58:18 <_habnabit> (C only has pass-by-value, but passing a pointer by value doesn't copy what it points to.) 2010-09-10T18:58:22 pointers are primitives 2010-09-10T18:58:31 so yes 2010-09-10T18:58:37 java and python copy pointers too 2010-09-10T18:58:41 but that's muddying waters 2010-09-10T18:58:44 i can retaliate for his superiority in foosball 2010-09-10T18:58:50 <_habnabit> jmcarthur, implementaiton details~ 2010-09-10T18:59:02 yay: "Cool, the confirmation email for my Google AI account was determined spam by Google Mail." ~ reddit post 2010-09-10T18:59:07 a1k0n: if i worked with you i would own you at foosball 2010-09-10T18:59:18 a1k0n: did i say "own"? i meant "scare" 2010-09-10T18:59:28 i'm a scary foosball player 2010-09-10T18:59:33 man :( 2010-09-10T18:59:36 <_habnabit> Zannick, what, you mean in java? Java doesn't have pointers. 2010-09-10T18:59:47 in c 2010-09-10T18:59:58 <_habnabit> ... C has something that's not a 'primitive' ? 2010-09-10T19:00:02 so is the entire Y! antispam team. 2010-09-10T19:00:02 why would i be talking about java for pointers 2010-09-10T19:00:14 my coworker's husband does pro foosball competitions 2010-09-10T19:00:16 _habnabit: structs 2010-09-10T19:00:24 no, i mean i'm literally a scary one 2010-09-10T19:00:25 and unions 2010-09-10T19:00:30 hahah i see 2010-09-10T19:00:38 people avoid the room when i'm playing 2010-09-10T19:00:39 passing a struct by value copies the entire thing 2010-09-10T19:00:40 *** tebele has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-10T19:00:50 you skewer your opponents and hit them with the ball? 2010-09-10T19:01:04 no skewering, that's just low class 2010-09-10T19:01:07 <_habnabit> Yes. C only has pass-by-value. 2010-09-10T19:01:08 <_habnabit> Nothing else. 2010-09-10T19:01:13 <_habnabit> Everything is copied, always. 2010-09-10T19:01:16 *** Scrap has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T19:01:25 wow the site is getting *crushed*, even the forum isn't very responsive 2010-09-10T19:01:36 but i hit the ball hard, put crazy spin on it, aim for objects on the walls, etc. 2010-09-10T19:01:42 and have drawn blood from coworkers... 2010-09-10T19:01:48 from the ball hitting their faces 2010-09-10T19:02:20 a1k0n: i noticed that too, any idea whats going on? slashdot or anywhere else picked it up maybe? 2010-09-10T19:02:26 reddit did 2010-09-10T19:02:31 but i've hurt myself too, and much worse, so they got the last laugh 2010-09-10T19:02:45 Just use the tcp server 2010-09-10T19:02:51 If the main site doesn't work. 2010-09-10T19:04:30 haskell never copies! :D 2010-09-10T19:04:30 Might be time for j3camero to ask Google for more help :-) 2010-09-10T19:05:37 Zaphus: but j3camero isn't here o_O 2010-09-10T19:05:37 or for us to optimize the shit out of the site 2010-09-10T19:05:51 260 bots :o 2010-09-10T19:06:39 *** Umsturz has quit IRC (Quit: Umsturz) 2010-09-10T19:06:49 it would be really nice to have a test site up somewhere that we can experiment changes with 2010-09-10T19:07:09 a1k0n, amstan: maybe caching would work? 2010-09-10T19:07:10 well, better to get hit hard now and beef things up 2010-09-10T19:07:11 jmcarthur: http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/ 2010-09-10T19:07:12 *** rwa has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T19:08:04 FlagCapper: that's not what i meant 2010-09-10T19:08:13 FlagCapper: i'm talking changing the codebase of the official site 2010-09-10T19:08:19 oh 2010-09-10T19:08:28 *** seigen has quit IRC (Quit: bye!) 2010-09-10T19:08:31 it's open source 2010-09-10T19:08:36 *** amstan has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-09-10T19:08:40 and we've been patching it up furiously 2010-09-10T19:08:49 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T19:08:49 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2010-09-10T19:09:57 amstan: hey, do you mind dropping me an updated copy of ratings.txt now that we have a large number of new bots so i can test out the adjusted elo proposal? 2010-09-10T19:11:15 jmcarthur: how does the adjusting work? 2010-09-10T19:11:34 <_habnabit> Who's running the tcp server? 2010-09-10T19:12:07 *** alarisrt has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T19:12:15 hello 2010-09-10T19:12:32 is someone running the tcp server with a python MyBot? 2010-09-10T19:12:33 btw, six char minimum for username is kinda annoying 2010-09-10T19:12:35 <-- 2010-09-10T19:12:36 icefox: does your bot just resign at some point and not bother fighting on? :D 2010-09-10T19:12:54 http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284159844|phreeza_v0_2|icefox 2010-09-10T19:12:55 <_habnabit> alarisrt, yerp. 2010-09-10T19:12:56 contestbot: echo ermau: can you post an issue at [what issues] 2010-09-10T19:12:56 ermau: can you post an issue at issues = http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/list 2010-09-10T19:12:57 *** apophis has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T19:13:25 *** apophis is now known as Guest42921 2010-09-10T19:13:26 _habnabit, how? i'm getting nasty errors 2010-09-10T19:13:41 <_habnabit> alarisrt, what kind of errors? 2010-09-10T19:13:44 phreeza: :) 2010-09-10T19:13:52 ./tcp 213.3.30.106 9999 abc ./MyBot.py : No such file or directory 2010-09-10T19:13:58 phreeza: trying out a defensive test 2010-09-10T19:14:22 <_habnabit> alarisrt, sounds like it doesn't exist. 2010-09-10T19:14:40 amstan: Error: There was a problem accessing the rankings page. 2010-09-10T19:15:49 JensT1: http://pastebin.com/9CzxgtVR 2010-09-10T19:15:52 jmcarthur: http://pastebin.com/9CzxgtVR 2010-09-10T19:15:54 JensT1: sorry, wp 2010-09-10T19:16:03 *** caytchen has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T19:16:08 *** alex79 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T19:16:20 icefox: hn1 is me 2010-09-10T19:16:22 amstan: thanks 2010-09-10T19:16:28 jmcarthur: how does this adjustment work? 2010-09-10T19:17:12 zerd: http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284158718|icefox|hn1 looks like it could have beat me much easier 2010-09-10T19:17:26 JensT1: reports the lower bound of the score rather than the mean. prevents people from jumping around when they haven't played many games. means they gradually rise as they play more games rather than jumping to the top just because they lost a game to a top bot 2010-09-10T19:18:44 JensT1: i'm just planning to generate the normal rankings next to the adjusted ones to show how much or how little they change and how much or little sense they make 2010-09-10T19:18:57 as a litmus test for a patch i wrote yesterday 2010-09-10T19:19:04 which is not applied yet 2010-09-10T19:19:13 it works now, thanks _habnabit 2010-09-10T19:19:39 icefox: hehe.. yeah, indeed. I only attack if 1 single planet has enough ships to take a planet :p 2010-09-10T19:19:48 the official website is really slow 2010-09-10T19:19:55 cool, cool 2010-09-10T19:19:57 zerd: need to combine forces :) 2010-09-10T19:20:22 yeah, but then it starts to get advanced :p 2010-09-10T19:22:02 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T19:22:43 zerd: hn as in hacker news? :D 2010-09-10T19:23:06 haha 2010-09-10T19:23:37 jmcarthur: as long as it makes me get a higher rank in the end :p 2010-09-10T19:23:45 hmm, I'm getting connection errors on the site now 2010-09-10T19:23:55 I think everyone is 2010-09-10T19:24:49 yep 2010-09-10T19:24:51 I've stopped refreshing 2010-09-10T19:24:53 connection timeouts 2010-09-10T19:25:21 thought that hitting f5 couldn't be a good thing for the hamster 2010-09-10T19:25:23 contestbot help 2010-09-10T19:25:23 Scrap: (help [] []) -- This command gives a useful description of what does. is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin. 2010-09-10T19:25:24 JensT1: if the bots keep playing for long enough their scores settle to the same thing that they would without the patch 2010-09-10T19:26:04 is there a way to get the raiting of a specific nickname from the bot? 2010-09-10T19:26:32 @ranking 2010-09-10T19:26:43 s_denchev: Error: There was a problem accessing the rankings page. 2010-09-10T19:26:52 doh :) 2010-09-10T19:28:04 the website doesnot work. I could not update a bot 2010-09-10T19:29:27 how important are the current rankings? 2010-09-10T19:29:44 or are they just for fun and practise, and every ranking before the deadline = irrelevant? 2010-09-10T19:30:18 avorntur: these are irrelevant I think 2010-09-10T19:30:30 when you upload a new version of the bot its rank is returned to default 2010-09-10T19:30:32 well i would assume that every ranking before the deadline is irrevelant, but if your question is if this challenge is already over, then i think the answer is 'no' :) 2010-09-10T19:30:38 don't think there's a system where every player gets points now depending on how long he's on top of the list 2010-09-10T19:31:14 which is ok, since you have to prove yourself by starting with an average elo again everytime you upload a bot 2010-09-10T19:33:56 avorntur: the way i understand it is after the deadline ends a complete tournament will be held and the rankings from that are what counts. 2010-09-10T19:34:11 ah cool 2010-09-10T19:34:30 /sleep now :) 2010-09-10T19:34:35 *** avorntur has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-10T19:38:38 google, where are you ? we need you(and your servers) :) 2010-09-10T19:38:52 *** JCS^ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-09-10T19:38:53 busy running google instant 2010-09-10T19:41:43 I have what could be a quick question. How do I call the hash function for a long on theLong here: http://pastebin.com/790gDNzw 2010-09-10T19:42:44 My C++ is definitely not up to the level of everyone else here, but I'm learning as I go 2010-09-10T19:42:56 *** levente_meszaros has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2010-09-10T19:44:23 To anyone using the tcp server: can you view your userpage? 2010-09-10T19:44:49 <_habnabit> Nope. 2010-09-10T19:46:08 *** JensT1 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2010-09-10T19:46:52 FlagCapper: i can see it but it says no games found 2010-09-10T19:47:22 Yeah that's what I meant 2010-09-10T19:47:48 Sometimes it'll just load a few of them, but not the most recent ones. 2010-09-10T19:47:54 Most of the time it just doesn't show. 2010-09-10T19:48:09 yea 2010-09-10T19:48:20 db issues i guess 2010-09-10T19:48:38 Now both sites are slow :( 2010-09-10T19:49:25 javagamer_Cpp: I'm a bit rusty, but I think you want something like { hash h = hash(); h(theLong) }; 2010-09-10T19:50:07 is ai-contest.com down? 2010-09-10T19:50:20 it can be said so 2010-09-10T19:50:28 :( 2010-09-10T19:50:34 It's getting hammered 2010-09-10T19:50:54 in fact it works, but very slow and with timeouts and etc 2010-09-10T19:55:19 wow.. 2010-09-10T19:56:33 http://hpaste.org/fastcgi/hpaste.fcgi/view?id=29882#a29882 2010-09-10T19:56:41 i wonder why they didn't go with a game server to begin with.. 2010-09-10T19:57:15 nice 2010-09-10T19:58:00 after all some people may want to write their contest entry in lolcode or brainfuck ;o 2010-09-10T19:58:06 *** _Utkarsh <_Utkarsh!~admin@117.201.81.60> has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T19:58:26 the adjusted score would probably be the most impressive if we could actually see a bot move up the ranks and compare that to the same bot jumping around the ranks 2010-09-10T19:59:16 *** icefox has quit IRC (Quit: icefox) 2010-09-10T20:00:53 most drastic change i see in the adjusted is somebody moving from 34th to 95th (because they had only played three games) 2010-09-10T20:01:03 most drastic i've seen studying it so far 2010-09-10T20:01:51 *** Utkarsh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-09-10T20:02:05 morning 2010-09-10T20:02:24 it moves Mathnerd314 up from 107th to 66th, presumably because that bot has been there for quite some time 2010-09-10T20:02:54 yay :-) 2010-09-10T20:03:21 *** syntaxglitch has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T20:03:26 Mathnerd314: on the other hand it changes your score from 43 to 7 :P 2010-09-10T20:03:34 website is at a crawl then? or is that just me? 2010-09-10T20:03:45 Mathnerd314: meaning it's 95% sure that your score is at least 7 2010-09-10T20:04:04 Mathnerd314: whereas the 43 is the "most likely" score 2010-09-10T20:04:22 antimatroid1: it's going very slow 2010-09-10T20:05:20 well, i'll link to that in the issue tracker for further discussion later 2010-09-10T20:05:41 i think the slow site takes precedence 2010-09-10T20:05:41 antimatroid1: getting hammered from reddit it seems 2010-09-10T20:05:56 * syntaxglitch didn't get a confirmation email when trying to sign up :( 2010-09-10T20:07:11 Starterpack_Rage moves up 30 spots in the new ranking method! 2010-09-10T20:07:19 people in r/compsci seemed to have been semi interested 2010-09-10T20:07:41 Zaphus: presumably for being around longer? 2010-09-10T20:07:46 any, bbl 2010-09-10T20:08:02 How do I get a #DEFINE to work in string? 2010-09-10T20:08:11 eh? 2010-09-10T20:08:51 javagamer_Cpp: what are you trying to accomplish? 2010-09-10T20:08:52 I have something like "The maximum int is INT_MAX" 2010-09-10T20:09:16 syntaxglitch: don't worry, most other people didn't either 2010-09-10T20:09:26 I realize I can do it w/ printf, but I'm curious if there's another way 2010-09-10T20:10:16 you should probably look into stringstreams 2010-09-10T20:10:17 hmm page still wont load 2010-09-10T20:10:23 how many bots were up last time one checked? 2010-09-10T20:10:39 Mathnerd314, I tried earlier today, sometime after it stopped spitting "NO EMAIL FOR YOU" errors :( 2010-09-10T20:10:56 drewrobb is now leading the unofficial server :) 2010-09-10T20:11:00 Is there a known issue being worked on? Or do I need to contact someone :( 2010-09-10T20:11:11 basically you can do something like this with them: std::stringstream stream; stream << "I'm " << 11 << " years old and INT_MAX is " << INT_MAX; stream.str() gives you a std::string then 2010-09-10T20:13:32 how is a winner determined if you reach the last turn? 2010-09-10T20:13:51 dstufft: Most ships alive 2010-09-10T20:13:58 Zaphus: thanks 2010-09-10T20:14:08 the official game server currently stops at 200 turns? 2010-09-10T20:14:41 amstan: Error: There was a problem accessing the rankings page. 2010-09-10T20:14:56 contestbot: scheduler remove rankings 2010-09-10T20:14:56 amstan: The operation succeeded. 2010-09-10T20:15:36 bss03, the code you suggested compiled, but isn't working: Before hash 12884901905 after hash 12884901905 and 2147483647 + 1 is 2147483648 2010-09-10T20:15:36 Before hash 32212254726 after hash 32212254726 and 2147483647 + 1 is 2147483648 2010-09-10T20:15:36 Before hash 19327352840 after hash 19327352840 and 2147483647 + 1 is 2147483648 2010-09-10T20:15:36 Before hash 25769803790 after hash 25769803790 and 2147483647 + 1 is 2147483648 2010-09-10T20:15:36 Before hash 4 after hash 4 and 2147483647 + 1 is 2147483648 2010-09-10T20:15:37 Before hash 47244640275 after hash 47244640275 and 2147483647 + 1 is 2147483648 2010-09-10T20:15:38 amstan: got channel logging yet? 2010-09-10T20:15:39 Before hash 23622320139 after hash 23622320139 and 2147483647 + 1 is 2147483648 2010-09-10T20:15:43 Before hash 40802189312 after hash 40802189312 and 2147483647 + 1 is 2147483648 2010-09-10T20:15:45 Before hash 4294967318 after hash 4294967318 and 2147483647 + 1 is 2147483648 2010-09-10T20:15:47 Mathnerd314: yes, see topic 2010-09-10T20:15:47 Before hash 27917287426 after hash 27917287426 and 2147483647 + 1 is 2147483648 2010-09-10T20:15:48 yay i can get the stats again 2010-09-10T20:15:49 Before hash 19327352853 after hash 19327352853 and 2147483647 + 1 is 2147483648 2010-09-10T20:15:51 Before hash 21474836480 after hash 21474836480 and 2147483647 + 1 is 2147483648 2010-09-10T20:15:53 Before hash 23622320139 after hash 23622320139 and 2147483647 + 1 is 2147483648 2010-09-10T20:15:55 javagamer_Cpp: dude.. stop flooding 2010-09-10T20:15:55 Before hash 32212254726 after hash 32212254726 and 2147483647 + 1 is 2147483648 2010-09-10T20:15:57 Before hash 4294967318 after hash 4294967318 and 2147483647 + 1 is 2147483648 2010-09-10T20:15:59 Before hash 4 after hash 4 and 2147483647 + 1 is 2147483648 2010-09-10T20:15:59 D: 2010-09-10T20:16:01 Before hash 19327352840 after hash 19327352840 and 2147483647 + 1 is 2147483648 2010-09-10T20:16:03 Before hash 40802189312 after hash 40802189312 and 2147483647 + 1 is 2147483648 2010-09-10T20:16:05 Before hash 25769803790 after hash 25769803790 and 2147483647 + 1 is 2147483648 2010-09-10T20:16:07 Before hash 19327352853 after hash 19327352853 and 2147483647 + 1 is 2147483648 2010-09-10T20:16:09 javagamer_Cpp: wth? 2010-09-10T20:16:09 Before hash 27917287426 after hash 27917287426 and 2147483647 + 1 is 2147483648 2010-09-10T20:16:09 *** javagamer_Cpp was kicked by amstan (User terminated!) 2010-09-10T20:16:14 lol 2010-09-10T20:16:19 he'll come back 2010-09-10T20:16:20 *** tapwater has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-10T20:16:21 i hope.. lol 2010-09-10T20:16:26 someone pressed paste 2010-09-10T20:16:30 *** javagamer_Cpp has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T20:16:34 I've done that before 2010-09-10T20:16:35 sry, did it stop? 2010-09-10T20:16:38 forgot what I had on my clipboard 2010-09-10T20:16:38 javagamer_Cpp: yeah, lol 2010-09-10T20:16:44 woah, 270 bots up already 2010-09-10T20:16:45 I tried to post a link, but it didn't copy :/ 2010-09-10T20:16:45 think I got K-lined once 2010-09-10T20:16:48 http://pastebin.com/Ax7iJZiy 2010-09-10T20:16:52 That's what I meant to post 2010-09-10T20:16:56 log.addHandler(irc) ??? 2010-09-10T20:17:35 amstan: when are we goign to have rankings by country/organisation etc.? and are you goign to add one for the "level of user" selected upon sign up? 2010-09-10T20:17:52 i think the first year uniers would like that the most 2010-09-10T20:18:03 antimatroid1: idk, j3camero needs to fix that 2010-09-10T20:19:18 looks like people didn't start bitching about the proposed resolution method yet :) 2010-09-10T20:19:31 *** icefox has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T20:20:20 yeah cuz they can't log into the forums 2010-09-10T20:20:29 i can 2010-09-10T20:21:27 a1k0n: I'm now using the pseudo code I mention on this page, is it correct? 2010-09-10T20:21:27 http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=474 2010-09-10T20:22:18 i will probably change my implementation just order players one and two first rather than compare their values more than once, but I don't think it works nicely to just sort all three ship amounts 2010-09-10T20:23:08 doing all 100 maps takes awhile >.> 2010-09-10T20:23:39 loading the forums takes a while, heh 2010-09-10T20:24:14 lol 2010-09-10T20:24:40 i got bored so wrote a .py to run all my bots against themselves + example bots through all 100 maps, and then print the stats >.> 2010-09-10T20:24:43 a little slow today? 2010-09-10T20:25:20 yeah there's a shell script on the forums that does that too 2010-09-10T20:25:35 i had to optimize PlayGame.jar to run it in any reasonable amount of time 2010-09-10T20:25:39 Cyndre: yep, it's become popular 2010-09-10T20:25:52 there are almost 300 bots up though 2010-09-10T20:25:56 nice 2010-09-10T20:26:02 now for them to chnge from start package level 2010-09-10T20:26:21 is ruby on the server yet? 2010-09-10T20:27:28 a1k0n: are your optimizations available anywhere? 2010-09-10T20:27:52 today, helping the competetion. hehe ;) 2010-09-10T20:29:07 does anyone have a system to use the canvas visualizer for local testing? 2010-09-10T20:29:24 dstufft: err what? 2010-09-10T20:29:37 http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/ai-contest.com 2010-09-10T20:29:52 antimatroid1: ? 2010-09-10T20:30:07 what optimizations? 2010-09-10T20:30:25 drewrobb: http://github.com/DanielVF/Planet-Wars-Canvas-Visualizer look at "visualize_localy.py" 2010-09-10T20:31:04 website and forums are crawling again 2010-09-10T20:31:09 Woah, it's responding quickly again 2010-09-10T20:31:12 antimatroid1: < a1k0n> i had to optimize PlayGame.jar to run it in any reasonable amount of time 2010-09-10T20:31:16 ulope: thank you! 2010-09-10T20:31:33 * ermau spoke too soon 2010-09-10T20:31:46 ermau: definitely 2010-09-10T20:32:15 Welp, I'm just glad I got my latest revision in before I left for a few hours 2010-09-10T20:33:35 *** ermau has quit IRC (Quit: ermau) 2010-09-10T20:37:41 *** rwa_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T20:37:59 oh god, why did i agree to be a reserve for regional acm today, now I have to go down to uni just to leave again :| 2010-09-10T20:38:03 You LOSE against a1k0n 2010-09-10T20:38:04 :( 2010-09-10T20:39:02 can someone update me on the status of the battle resolution rules and implementation? I just ran my tests against the latest PlayGame.jar and it still seems to have the off-by-one against neutrals bug. Is this bug in the server code, too? 2010-09-10T20:39:59 rwa_: how do you mean? 2010-09-10T20:40:03 rwa: http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=474 2010-09-10T20:40:08 if a neutral planet has 10 ships you need to send 11 to take it 2010-09-10T20:40:10 I'm pretty sure I got that right 2010-09-10T20:40:46 a1k0n: it was previously taking 2 ships to go past 0 2010-09-10T20:41:09 *** tapwater has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T20:41:26 i haven't run any games in qutie a while though 2010-09-10T20:41:38 what antimatroid1 said... 2010-09-10T20:42:14 yeah, it no longer takes 2. that was fixed right? 2010-09-10T20:42:25 i haven't looked, that was the question :P 2010-09-10T20:42:26 i definitely see that fixed 2010-09-10T20:42:30 is the PlayGame.jar in the starter pack up to date, or do i need to update it from somewhere? 2010-09-10T20:42:31 okay, good 2010-09-10T20:42:37 my bot always sends N+1 to neutrals 2010-09-10T20:42:55 i believe it's more complicated than that 2010-09-10T20:42:56 dstufft: they released new starter packs last night; unfortunately they don't provide times or version numbers on them 2010-09-10T20:43:04 i think i have a pretty good idea, it's just going to take a little while 2010-09-10T20:43:16 a1k0n: ok then i have the latest version 2010-09-10T20:43:22 to take neutrals in general? yes, you'll need a lot more ships to take the neutral sitting right next to your opponent 2010-09-10T20:43:38 now to figure out how to unjar so i can apply the patch you made >.> 2010-09-10T20:43:44 a1k0n: to cover the strategic side of situations 2010-09-10T20:43:56 dstufft: it should have the patch 2010-09-10T20:44:08 dstufft: at any rate http://a1k0n.net/temp/PlayGame.jar has my latest one 2010-09-10T20:44:14 (and ShowGame.jar) 2010-09-10T20:45:44 wow this ship count graph is great 2010-09-10T20:46:03 drewrobb: what? 2010-09-10T20:46:11 on the canvas visualizer 2010-09-10T20:46:46 a1k0n: thanks 2010-09-10T20:46:53 trying to see if i can get this to run any faster 2010-09-10T20:47:04 before i say screw it and just take a random sample of the 100 maps 2010-09-10T20:48:55 oh jesus yours is way faster 2010-09-10T20:49:10 *** ratatata has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-10T20:55:44 *** s_denchev has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-10T20:59:23 ShowGame is also much less painful to load 2010-09-10T21:00:06 *** McLeopold has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2010-09-10T21:01:32 maybe i'll speed this up by running a bunch of these at once instead of one at a time 2010-09-10T21:01:51 *** alex79 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-09-10T21:07:01 *** otherAntimatroid has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T21:08:51 *** smhanov has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T21:09:15 so anyway, looks like I never did get a confirmation email. :( It's not in my junk mail folder either. Should I post something on the forum, or is there someone I'm supposed to contact directly? 2010-09-10T21:09:59 syntaxglitch: when did you try? 2010-09-10T21:10:21 j3camero: How about switching the canvas visualizer in 2010-09-10T21:11:34 amstan, earlier today... probably sometime shortly after the SMTP errors were fixed 2010-09-10T21:11:45 syntaxglitch: after? 2010-09-10T21:11:49 syntaxglitch: it should of worked then 2010-09-10T21:12:00 syntaxglitch: wait.. confirmation for what? 2010-09-10T21:13:13 for creating an account to enter the contest. It seemed to work but I never saw the email. 2010-09-10T21:13:31 i love it when people time out, you can feel the debugger kicking in! 2010-09-10T21:13:43 If I try again it tells me the username (camccann) is taken so something must've worked at least 2010-09-10T21:15:26 does dhartmei's server only store a fixed number of games? 2010-09-10T21:15:45 or games for a fixed time? 2010-09-10T21:16:15 they eventually get wiped i think 2010-09-10T21:17:42 *** phreeza_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T21:18:08 *** phreeza has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) 2010-09-10T21:18:26 Epic figth 2010-09-10T21:18:27 http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284167174|danielvf|hsBot10.01 2010-09-10T21:18:38 I remember dhartmei saying he wipes them every 24 hours 2010-09-10T21:18:55 it seems to be a continuous process 2010-09-10T21:19:05 contestbot: seen j3camero 2010-09-10T21:19:05 amstan: j3camero was last seen in #aichallenge 19 hours and 26 seconds ago: amstan: everyone just got way better all of a sudden. 2010-09-10T21:19:11 where is he? 2010-09-10T21:20:18 hiding 2010-09-10T21:20:58 any particular starter package I should redownlaod and use? 2010-09-10T21:21:10 jmcarthur, how's the contest going for you so far? 2010-09-10T21:21:32 jmcarthur: probably 2010-09-10T21:21:38 contestbot: rankings 2010-09-10T21:21:49 amstan: Error: There was a problem accessing the rankings page. 2010-09-10T21:21:55 of course.. 2010-09-10T21:21:57 syntaxglitch: i haven't been able to pay it much attention yet 2010-09-10T21:22:16 *** kersny has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T21:22:20 Helloooo! 2010-09-10T21:22:20 syntaxglitch: i'm still on the preliminary stages of my bot. trying to squeeze it in with stuff 2010-09-10T21:22:26 j3camero: HEY 2010-09-10T21:22:37 you need to quit your job 2010-09-10T21:22:38 j3camero: world is burning 2010-09-10T21:22:46 So we've had a few glitches today, haha. To tell the truth, I am amazed that the webserver was not crushed. 2010-09-10T21:22:49 j3camero: mail server failed, server's getting slow 2010-09-10T21:22:55 jmcarthur, yeah, this is the first chance I've had to really sit down and look at anything 2010-09-10T21:22:56 well it kinda was 2010-09-10T21:23:07 j3camero: please tell me you have 10 other servers like this that you can activate this weekend 2010-09-10T21:23:31 a1k0n: yeah I guess that's true. The site is basically unavailable for stretches at a time. We have to create a slow query log to see what's wong. 2010-09-10T21:23:51 j3camero: give amstan access to /var/db/mysql at least 2010-09-10T21:24:00 no, give amstan root 2010-09-10T21:24:07 amstan: sadly, no. I doubt getting more servers will help. This problem looks like it's just a slow mysql query. 2010-09-10T21:24:29 j3camero: why is the server a p4? 2010-09-10T21:24:39 amstan: do you want root? I will give it to you. You have time during the day, I don't. 2010-09-10T21:24:50 j3camero: what do you think about moving the game logs out of the database entirely so that they can at least be a fast web request instead of a php/database hit 2010-09-10T21:24:51 j3camero: well.. i had time, this week 2010-09-10T21:24:58 j3camero: yeah.. go ahead 2010-09-10T21:24:59 j3camero: Probably add generous amounts of memcahed and / or varnish 2010-09-10T21:25:07 yes, that ^^ 2010-09-10T21:25:43 i got to go eat 2010-09-10T21:26:07 We clearly need more admins. Anybody here willing to not be a contestant so they can help out with these things? I will also yell for help in the #CSC channel to see if I can get some of the awesome people who helped with TRon. 2010-09-10T21:26:28 i would like to help but i would like to be a contestant more :/ 2010-09-10T21:26:32 asking somebody not to compete is a heavy order 2010-09-10T21:26:51 i too wish to compete 2010-09-10T21:26:54 a1k0n: I wanted to ask you if you wanted to become a "gatekeeper" on the code repo, to help me increase the turnaround time on these code reviews. You would still just be dealing with the open soruce project, so you would still compete. Let me know. 2010-09-10T21:27:17 perhaps but i don't have any way to test the backend 2010-09-10T21:27:20 Yeah, I suppose you all want to compete. That's what it's all about! 2010-09-10T21:27:44 yeah, I'm a programming contest junkie :( 2010-09-10T21:27:49 a1k0n: what would you need? I can do a database schema dump so you can set up your own instance for example. 2010-09-10T21:27:51 but i do think it's vital that we start version-numbering the starter packs 2010-09-10T21:28:00 j3camero: amstan provided one already actually 2010-09-10T21:28:08 i guess i could set something up 2010-09-10T21:28:23 i probably won't have any time this weekend tho 2010-09-10T21:28:55 a1k0n: awesome. I am going to do a bunch of work on testing the python engine tomorrow. Right now I just have to do some public facing stuff (updating the website etc) and then sleep. I haven't slept more than 4 hours a night all week. 2010-09-10T21:29:11 ugh 2010-09-10T21:29:29 j3camero: i would certainly help out but I at least would want to compete "out-of-the-running" (i.e. still be able to submit code but not "get" anything should I win (which isn't going to happen anyway so..)) 2010-09-10T21:30:17 kind of steals somebody's thunder if you beat them despite being disqualified 2010-09-10T21:30:48 *** mightybyte has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2010-09-10T21:30:50 jmcarthur: well as I said chances are I'l be somewhere around rank 200 ;) 2010-09-10T21:30:52 jmcarthur: ulope: haha yeah it would. We have discussed in the past having a secret (possibly authenticated) leaderboard to deal with this situation. 2010-09-10T21:30:54 heh 2010-09-10T21:31:06 *** zeiris has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T21:31:47 i think even with that possibility i'm still out. if i win i want the reward of recognition because i'm selfish like that 2010-09-10T21:31:48 I would really like someone who can do a bit of sysadminning. Right now, the most critical thing is to set up a mysql slow query log (google mysql slow query log) so we can find out what's locking up the website. 2010-09-10T21:31:55 j3camero: I'd be willing to step out of the contest and help with website admin 2010-09-10T21:32:14 jmcarthur: totally understandable for sure. I only asked in case there was someone dying to become an admin. 2010-09-10T21:33:27 j3camero, the next AI challenge should be to write the best AI challenge server 2010-09-10T21:33:29 danielvf: would you feel confident taking a crack at the mysql slow query log thing, and possibly profiling the PHP code? I am not sure what your background is. I have seen many quality issues and patches from you, so I dig this idea. I just want to get to know your background a bit out of curiosity. 2010-09-10T21:33:41 danielvf: anybody willing to do that earns uber respect in my book 2010-09-10T21:33:50 I've been full time freelance web apps since 2004 2010-09-10T21:33:52 *2003 2010-09-10T21:33:57 *** sigh has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-09-10T21:34:02 syntaxglitch: this idea is alreayd in the works :-) The goal is to have people be able to submit new game engines just like you currently submit bots. 2010-09-10T21:34:09 I currently maintain about a dozen webservers 2010-09-10T21:34:26 j3camero, but will it have a leaderboard? :P 2010-09-10T21:34:36 j3camero: Well I guess nobody who isn't an admin by profession really wants to be one, but sometimes it's just what you have to do ;) 2010-09-10T21:34:53 danielvf: okay then you are exactly who I dreamed to find. Final answer? Once I send you root, there is no turning back. 2010-09-10T21:35:03 j3camero, also that would be "like everyone else submits bots" because I still don't have an account :( :( :( 2010-09-10T21:35:23 j3camero: I'll step carefully. Won't do evil. 2010-09-10T21:35:36 syntaxglitch: yes sorry about the mail issue. Fucking gmail SMTP servers banning me! 2010-09-10T21:35:42 Nice to see a1kon joining this contest too, and at the top of the ladder :D 2010-09-10T21:35:47 danielvf: i think he meant "this is your last chance to stay in the competition" 2010-09-10T21:36:11 danielvf: okay I will get you into the box with full root access. Are you a committer on the code repo yet? 2010-09-10T21:36:16 Ah. Then yes, that's okay. 2010-09-10T21:36:21 j3camero, haha is that really what happened? bit ironic given the challenge's sponsor... 2010-09-10T21:36:21 Yes, I'm a commiter. 2010-09-10T21:37:22 danielvf: would you pm me your personal email address? Also, join the mailing list linked from the home page of the Google Code project. I will send you the details you need to get in. 2010-09-10T21:37:23 does contestbot have a karma counter? 2010-09-10T21:37:30 @help karma 2010-09-10T21:37:30 jmcarthur: Error: There is no command "karma". 2010-09-10T21:37:32 j3camero: how are you using the gmail smtp server (i.e. are you loggin gin with a specific username / password)? 2010-09-10T21:37:48 ulope: yes 2010-09-10T21:38:14 just sending outgoing email using SMTP as donotreply@ai-contest.com, through google apps 2010-09-10T21:38:22 j3camero: and I assume you send all of the sites emails through that? 2010-09-10T21:38:24 but apparently I got cut off 2010-09-10T21:38:29 yes 2010-09-10T21:38:47 Not any more though. The amazing mike ellis changed the mail so it got fixed... sort of. 2010-09-10T21:38:49 j3camero: how about using csclub as a mirror? 2010-09-10T21:38:58 j3camero: now it's being spam filtered 2010-09-10T21:38:59 j3camero: group membership pending. 2010-09-10T21:39:24 amstan: the problem isnt that we are exceeding our server's capacity. It's just tht we have some poorly design sql query somewhere in the pipe that is locking a bunch of tables for seconds at a time. 2010-09-10T21:39:37 is "donotreply@ai-contest.com" registered as an alias of the google apps account youre using? 2010-09-10T21:39:38 contestbot: ranks 2010-09-10T21:39:39 amstan: Top 10 players: a1k0n(2845), dmj111(2828), albert(2796), seigen(2755), drewrobb(2736), FlagCapper(2694), mewotwo(2660), Kavish(2655), tzukanion(2647), Molehill(2635) 2010-09-10T21:39:55 j3camero: most of the time ^^ that doesn't work, i get timeout errors 2010-09-10T21:39:57 ulope: yes it is an actual email address with a gmail inbox. 2010-09-10T21:40:22 amstan: what doesn't work, sorry? 2010-09-10T21:40:47 j3camero: the rankings.php page, it times out for my bot 2010-09-10T21:40:57 j3camero, so, not to be pushy since you guys are pretty overworked, but any chance I can get my confirmation email sent? :( 2010-09-10T21:41:16 j3camero: yes, confirmation/error mail for compiling don't work 2010-09-10T21:41:20 only the registering mails 2010-09-10T21:41:27 j3camero: that should be one of the first things 2010-09-10T21:41:42 j3camero: You got my PM? 2010-09-10T21:41:46 syntaxglitch: yes. I am going to go through soon and remove all the accounts that have not yet been confirmed. After that you'll be able to remake your account. 2010-09-10T21:41:46 j3camero: Hm.. In theory that should work but I had similar problems in the past. Did you consider setting up a simple exim outgoing only server on the conest machine? 2010-09-10T21:42:07 j3camero, awesome 2010-09-10T21:43:20 *** FlagCapper has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-10T21:44:34 j3camero: You can't re-trigger the confirmation emails for those that haven't confirmed ? 2010-09-10T21:45:15 *** FlagCapper has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T21:47:21 Hi flagcapper. 2010-09-10T21:51:51 Okay I am taking a quick break for food. Be back in a bit. 2010-09-10T21:52:00 danielvf: Laters 2010-09-10T21:52:04 lol 2010-09-10T21:52:22 Thanks everyone for their patience. I am doing what I can to find more admins, developers, code reviewers etc so that stuff isn't so dependent on me. 2010-09-10T21:52:31 Speaking to yourself .. mental healt... you know ;) 2010-09-10T21:52:42 :P 2010-09-10T21:53:00 danielvf: start polking around if you want. Let's talk in a few minutes. 2010-09-10T21:53:10 j3camero: Okay 2010-09-10T21:53:30 danielvf: It's kind of telling. You're an admin for less than 10 minutes and already starting to crack up :) 2010-09-10T22:00:03 *** Zaphus has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-10T22:08:53 *** icefox has quit IRC (Quit: icefox) 2010-09-10T22:19:23 Grr, my program is timing out locally. When I run a profiler across it, it seems to spend most of it's time in code I didn't write. 2010-09-10T22:19:42 You know, the broiler-plate main that does all the I/O. :( 2010-09-10T22:20:11 bss03: reading or writing? 2010-09-10T22:20:11 boy that was a long ride for nothing 2010-09-10T22:20:13 *** PurplePanda has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T22:20:51 Reading. 2010-09-10T22:21:19 jmcarther: 82% of the time it is in buildGameState, which is called which each line of input. 2010-09-10T22:21:29 bss03: are you using the newest engine? 2010-09-10T22:21:37 the newest version of it, i mean 2010-09-10T22:21:57 what language? 2010-09-10T22:22:01 I downloaded the Java start kit today. 2010-09-10T22:22:10 To put of PlayGame.jar and ShowGame.jar 2010-09-10T22:22:12 bss03, why rebuild the game state every time? 2010-09-10T22:22:16 s/put/pull/ 2010-09-10T22:22:42 syntaxglitch: buildGameState should be called updateGameState 2010-09-10T22:23:25 syntaxglitch: It takes an existing game state and a line of input from the server then returns a new state with the new object added. 2010-09-10T22:23:43 which language? 2010-09-10T22:23:51 oh java 2010-09-10T22:23:58 jmcarthur: Haskell is what I'm writing in. 2010-09-10T22:24:00 how could someone possibly fuck that up so badly? i'm using the c# one and while its crap it doesn't have exponential complexit hehe. 2010-09-10T22:24:07 bss03: oh, so this is your own starter? 2010-09-10T22:24:09 jmcarthur: I'm using the Java engine and viewer locally though. 2010-09-10T22:24:27 jmcarther: Not really, jaspervdj wrote the broilerplate. 2010-09-10T22:24:36 because jaspervdj's starter doesn't have that function, as far as i can see 2010-09-10T22:24:47 oh wait, yeah it does 2010-09-10T22:24:49 nevermind 2010-09-10T22:24:58 jmcarthur: buildGameState is in PlanetWars.hs 2010-09-10T22:25:50 yeah that function looks slower than necessary to me. i'm not a fan of the lazy IO in that whole thing. unpredictable performance. plus there's the NoBuffering thing, which would probably be better with LineBuffering 2010-09-10T22:26:16 buildGameState uses (!!) rather than pattern matching, too, which is strange 2010-09-10T22:26:22 not sure if it should be taking *that* long though 2010-09-10T22:26:27 are you compiling with optimizations? 2010-09-10T22:27:04 jmcarthur: Yeah, I thought maybe the (!!) was an issue, but it's not. I added SCC annotations on the case results and the times spend there is relatively low. 2010-09-10T22:27:13 where is it long? 2010-09-10T22:27:32 Hrm, you know, probably not using -O2. Maybe I just need that. :P 2010-09-10T22:27:38 heh 2010-09-10T22:27:41 yeah -O2 is magical :) 2010-09-10T22:28:13 Well, buildGameState takes 82% of my time. 2010-09-10T22:28:13 the server uses -O2, for the record 2010-09-10T22:28:20 that's still bad, yes 2010-09-10T22:28:44 But, addFleet (the "F" exprssion) and addPlanet (the "P" expression) only take 0.3% of the time. 2010-09-10T22:28:57 i'm planning to write my own IO. i might release my own starter when its ready 2010-09-10T22:29:22 I'll try -O2 and see if I get lucky with some magic. 2010-09-10T22:30:16 Nope, no magic luck. :( 2010-09-10T22:30:23 darn 2010-09-10T22:30:27 would it be worth posting about ai thing in /r/math as well, or would anyone in there that cares have already seen it? 2010-09-10T22:30:38 maybe i should try it 2010-09-10T22:30:44 i'll do that 2010-09-10T22:30:49 bss03: so wheres the big performance loss? all in blocking IO? 2010-09-10T22:31:29 *** Zaphus has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T22:32:45 I'm putting together a Haskell package for thi... Wait. Is there a Haskell package already? 2010-09-10T22:32:49 caytchen: I guess. I'm not sure. 2010-09-10T22:33:15 zeiris: On GitHub. User jaspervdj. 2010-09-10T22:33:22 zeris: I don't have a link ready. 2010-09-10T22:36:14 bss03: have you tried the stock starter kit without any modifications? 2010-09-10T22:36:18 bss03: it's working fine for me 2010-09-10T22:36:46 Oh, yes. I have a badly written bot in the competition right now, and it *never* times out. :P 2010-09-10T22:36:59 I'm quite confused at my predicament. 2010-09-10T22:37:00 bss03: i could still try to hunt down bottlenecks if you want, but i'm not timing out like you are 2010-09-10T22:37:27 a1k0n: hey look at that, the example bots are timing out in PlayGame but not the haskell starter 2010-09-10T22:37:32 jmcarthur: My bot loses a lot, but it doesn't time out -- http://ai-contest.com/profile.php?user_id=3913 2010-09-10T22:38:13 jmcarthur: I'm just getting timeouts locally. I thought it might be some of my new code that I'm testing, so I did one pass at optimizing that. 2010-09-10T22:38:46 jmcarthur: Then, still timing out, I decided to throw a profiler at the problem and it's saying buildGameState is the issue. :( 2010-09-10T22:39:10 * Mathnerd314 notices that he's been too involved in this contest to shower for at least a week 2010-09-10T22:39:28 * Zaphus shudders 2010-09-10T22:40:10 Good thing they haven't invented the smellernet. 2010-09-10T22:40:38 jmcarthur: My profiling data: http://hpaste.org/fastcgi/hpaste.fcgi/view?id=29888#a29888 2010-09-10T22:40:48 bss03: i'm about to run my own real quick 2010-09-10T22:42:01 did you guys rewrite planet wars to merge fleets when constructing it's fleet vector from game data? or after with your own data structures 2010-09-10T22:42:10 i want to do the former, but i'm worried about fucking it up 2010-09-10T22:42:27 antimatriod1: So far, I'm doing it in my own code. 2010-09-10T22:42:40 jmcarthur are you on the dev mailing list? If not, you should join. 2010-09-10T22:43:05 antimatroid1: But, I don't see how doing some merging in PlanetWars would be bad. 2010-09-10T22:43:17 I am about to propose that we loosen the rules so that code reviews do not have to be approved by me. A code review could be approved by any other dev that is not you. 2010-09-10T22:43:34 j3camero: make it 2 other developers 2010-09-10T22:43:53 or maybe not 2010-09-10T22:44:02 antimatroid1: can you share yor reasons why? from experience? 2010-09-10T22:44:05 bss03: for some reason i am failing to get profiling data out of mine... 2010-09-10T22:44:11 Hrm, I don't think it is timing out, exactly. It is crashing, I'm not not seeing the error message. 2010-09-10T22:44:28 j3camero: i'll join in a minute 2010-09-10T22:44:35 j3camero: I have no experience in open source stuff, just seems better to have 2 other eyes look than one 2010-09-10T22:44:36 jmcarthur: awesome. 2010-09-10T22:44:38 jmcarthur: I only got 4 ticks, which isn't much, and my program ran for a bit. 2010-09-10T22:45:07 jmcarthur: Yep, strace shows I tried an integer divide by zero. Boo me. 2010-09-10T22:45:07 bss03: that sucks... 2010-09-10T22:45:19 jmcarthur: Sorry for the noise. :P 2010-09-10T22:45:24 bss03: if that didn't throw a ghc exception there is a bug in the runtime... 2010-09-10T22:45:33 bss03: unless you are using FFI or something? 2010-09-10T22:45:49 actually 2010-09-10T22:45:50 err 2010-09-10T22:45:54 It did, but I guess I had redirected that particular output somewhere incorrectly and wasn't seeing it. 2010-09-10T22:46:02 oh okay 2010-09-10T22:46:05 that explains it then 2010-09-10T22:46:18 now i'm mystified about why i can't seem to get profiling data out of this thing... 2010-09-10T22:46:19 Looks like it wrote to stderr, which I was pretty sure I was viewing. 2010-09-10T22:46:54 Maybe PlayGame.java hooks up to that fd in the child unintentionally? 2010-09-10T22:46:54 j3camero: is that the ai-contest-discuss list? 2010-09-10T22:47:07 maybe 2010-09-10T22:47:45 i've applied for the list 2010-09-10T22:49:28 hmmm, would you guys consider it safe to go with the current c++ starter package? 2010-09-10T22:49:40 i'm planning to fuck around with planet wars quite a bit 2010-09-10T22:50:34 j3camero: also.. who's an organizer now? 2010-09-10T22:50:36 *** rwa_ has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2010-09-10T22:50:48 j3camero: you know.. to get them forums permissions and all that 2010-09-10T22:50:58 antimatroid1: my bot is based on the earlier version of the starter, but I've been updating it to match the current starter each time, it was good yesterday but I havent checked today 2010-09-10T22:51:37 submitted my first bot - oooo 2010-09-10T22:51:47 grats :) 2010-09-10T22:51:53 we shall see 2010-09-10T22:51:55 just submitted my first "real" work 2010-09-10T22:52:03 its rather lame right now so I dont expect much 2010-09-10T22:52:09 before this i was rank 100 with hardly anything modified :P 2010-09-10T22:52:14 yeah but I want to change how fleets are set up and make everything public etc. 2010-09-10T22:52:34 cmon bot, fight!! 2010-09-10T22:52:37 so will be hard to merge with any future versions of planetwars.h unless it's obvious semantic fixes 2010-09-10T22:52:55 *** zeiris has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2010-09-10T22:52:58 thats what Im waiting for :) 2010-09-10T22:53:04 my bot is going to beat your bot up 2010-09-10T22:53:17 antimatroid1: honestly nothing much has changed of recent, it's mostly been the .jar files - but I;ll grab latest and compare 2010-09-10T22:53:26 my changes are fundamental enough that i'm just writing my own starter instead of using an existing one 2010-09-10T22:54:09 jmcarthur: I'll do that at some point, but for now it's enough for me to experiment with (and stay in top 10 more or less) 2010-09-10T22:55:12 Cyndre: bring it on ;) 2010-09-10T22:55:20 waiting 2010-09-10T22:55:21 lol 2010-09-10T22:55:26 do you test against all the sample bots? 2010-09-10T22:55:41 actually, I am running with the latest starter pack. 2010-09-10T22:55:59 amstan: imma hook you up with shell access 2010-09-10T22:56:04 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T22:56:05 millertime: initially I did, now just against Dual and Rage, plus some early versions of my own bot 2010-09-10T22:56:15 I tested against the MyBot.py original 2010-09-10T22:56:54 oh, and I created a "DormantBot" initially, it issues no orders - I'd occasionally lose to that and know it was due to an illegal move or a timeout :) 2010-09-10T22:57:01 *** RobotCaleb has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T22:57:23 Zaphus: not necessarily 2010-09-10T22:57:40 it's possible that you somehow failed to take out a neutral and lost more ships :P 2010-09-10T22:57:41 Cyndre: i think Prospector bot is the same as the sample 2010-09-10T22:58:10 although, admitidely, unlikely 2010-09-10T22:58:11 but like Zaphus pointed out, i think Rage and Dual are the only ones you should worry about getting marginally beaten by 2010-09-10T22:58:48 antimatroid1: Whatever the cause, it would set off alarm bells, you really shouldn't lose to it :-) 2010-09-10T22:58:50 they need more game servers now :) 2010-09-10T22:59:26 what's the best way to debug these things? just using print statements? 2010-09-10T22:59:27 yes, but i wouldn't use it as a strict test of time out/illegal move 2010-09-10T22:59:37 i'm using output files 2010-09-10T22:59:43 and outputing whatever I want on each turn 2010-09-10T23:00:10 how long till you will see your first game? 2010-09-10T23:00:25 hard to say when it's this busy 2010-09-10T23:00:26 it takes a little while right now 2010-09-10T23:00:39 try the tcp server ;) 2010-09-10T23:00:42 is there a private server yet? 2010-09-10T23:00:44 lots of bots are being added with similar priorities for new games 2010-09-10T23:00:49 there is 2010-09-10T23:00:55 http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/ 2010-09-10T23:01:16 *** phreeza_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2010-09-10T23:01:19 *** kersny has quit IRC (Quit: I'm Out) 2010-09-10T23:01:28 a1k0n down to third on tcp 2010-09-10T23:01:29 dstufft: you will probably hear a few answers.. but my easiest debugging to find problematic lines.. is just comment everything and remove the hash from one line at a time 2010-09-10T23:02:03 thats probably a dumb noob way of doing it though 2010-09-10T23:02:19 *** phreeza has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T23:02:26 millertime: output per move to an output file and you can go back through the entire game of states 2010-09-10T23:02:31 including smaller maps you wish to create 2010-09-10T23:02:42 also, if anyone cares, my C# stuff for using the tcp server: http://pastie.org/private/qayjiajr1b4drxkyqlbaxq 2010-09-10T23:03:02 antimatroid1: i'm probably just a huge noob but getting output to cooperate was much more difficult than just spamming my code with comment marks 2010-09-10T23:03:40 I'm not much of a programmer either, are you using c++? just use ofstreams 2010-09-10T23:03:42 anyone using a python bot on tcp server yet? 2010-09-10T23:03:55 Cyndre: you run your bot locally 2010-09-10T23:04:03 did someone make a tcp bit of code to run on win32 ? the supplied one wont compile, I remember someone said there was another ? 2010-09-10T23:04:12 so you can also output debug locally too 2010-09-10T23:04:28 i think some people got it going witha vm 2010-09-10T23:04:32 or maybe even cygwin? 2010-09-10T23:04:39 too much effort :) 2010-09-10T23:04:51 cygwin shouldn't be 2010-09-10T23:05:06 yeah cygwin has a nice installer and everything for you 2010-09-10T23:05:44 won my first game against gefunkt 2010-09-10T23:05:53 wubi > cygwin 2010-09-10T23:05:57 ;) 2010-09-10T23:06:04 wubi is nice if you like ubuntu.. 2010-09-10T23:06:22 i personally can't stand ubuntu 2010-09-10T23:06:25 eh, as far as i know you can still put xmonad on wubi :) 2010-09-10T23:06:39 sure, but that doesn't make me like ubuntu any better 2010-09-10T23:06:51 *** Doctor has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T23:07:55 agreed, but if you have to work around windows.. i find wubi the best way to do so :) 2010-09-10T23:08:02 ok, so if I got cygwin - how does that help ? what do I do with it ? 2010-09-10T23:08:14 use it like a command line? that's what i do aha, seems to work 2010-09-10T23:08:21 although i haven't tried it for this thing 2010-09-10T23:08:40 but I'd also need to get gcc too, right, and probably more things 2010-09-10T23:08:44 Zaphus: it basically gives you a unixy command line to use 2010-09-10T23:08:49 jmcarthur: Funny that, switching to xmonad on ubuntu was what made it not worth my time to move to another distro 2010-09-10T23:08:51 I have not tried it either, but you should be able to get gcc. 2010-09-10T23:08:51 is j3camero around 2010-09-10T23:08:53 well cygwin does offer gcc and stuff ;) 2010-09-10T23:08:54 (with cygwin) 2010-09-10T23:08:54 Zaphus: cygwin should offer you a choice to install gcc automatically 2010-09-10T23:09:09 Zaphus: it kind of functions like a package manager of sorts 2010-09-10T23:09:34 cbeck: i can't stand maintaining ubuntu 2010-09-10T23:09:37 jmcarthur: yeah, I think I'll pass - not really wanting to install that much stuff on this machine. maybe I'll just have to do a winsock version of tcp.c 2010-09-10T23:09:37 for my linux-based laptop i definitely got rid of ubuntu when i discovered the wonder of ARCH :D 2010-09-10T23:09:38 hmmm i'm using mingw compiler, is that going to cause issues? I know nothing about these things 2010-09-10T23:09:57 arch is love :D 2010-09-10T23:09:59 for trying to do stuff with tcp that is 2010-09-10T23:10:31 dang i went up to rank 39 :) 2010-09-10T23:11:36 nice 2010-09-10T23:11:58 he made an illegal move :( 2010-09-10T23:12:00 only one game so far though :P and a loss, at that 2010-09-10T23:12:18 *** Doctor has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-10T23:12:27 Cyndre: who? 2010-09-10T23:12:40 gefunkt 2010-09-10T23:12:55 what you mean illegal move 2010-09-10T23:13:11 like sending ships from a planet you don't own 2010-09-10T23:13:13 Cyndre's first win 2010-09-10T23:13:25 well moves you can't do, like sending ships from a planet to itself 2010-09-10T23:13:42 i actually did that when building some protection code.. 2010-09-10T23:13:50 i think that should just be a nop personally 2010-09-10T23:14:13 is there a penalty to it right now? 2010-09-10T23:14:18 dunno 2010-09-10T23:14:26 i'm not planning to send such orders, so i haven't paid attention 2010-09-10T23:14:54 caytchen: Yes, you instantly lose the game 2010-09-10T23:15:13 not on tcp i guess heh 2010-09-10T23:16:30 if you want to be able to issue orders like that, the the simplest is to modify IssueOrder to silently ignore them 2010-09-10T23:16:43 or to throw an error 2010-09-10T23:16:44 yeah i'm planning to rewrite the framework anyway 2010-09-10T23:16:49 *** zeiris has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T23:16:52 at least throw an error locally 2010-09-10T23:17:08 i'm using the starter kit right now but it's like a direct java port with ugly accessors instead of properties etc. 2010-09-10T23:17:38 i considered for a brief second writing my bot in agda... 2010-09-10T23:18:03 i don't think that would work out well for me 2010-09-10T23:18:30 lol 2010-09-10T23:18:35 thats close to brainfuck 2010-09-10T23:18:46 no, it's a lot nicer than brainfuck :) 2010-09-10T23:19:16 malbolge! 2010-09-10T23:19:18 well i guess for its specific niche heh 2010-09-10T23:19:18 i'm just not good at it, and it's not very complete, lacking things like a good standard library and such... 2010-09-10T23:20:13 contestbot: rank 2010-09-10T23:20:13 millertime: Error: The command "rank" is available in the Alias, ChannelStats, and Factoids plugins. Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "rank". 2010-09-10T23:20:16 i wish it could be used for everyday programming, but i kind of see it like i imagine a lot of people see haskell 2010-09-10T23:20:26 contestbot: @rank 2010-09-10T23:20:27 millertime: Error: "@rank" is not a valid command. 2010-09-10T23:20:39 how do i see rankings 2010-09-10T23:20:44 @rankings 2010-09-10T23:20:45 Zannick: Top 10 players: a1k0n(2858), dmj111(2844), albert(2804), seigen(2760), drewrobb(2741), Kavish(2623), mistabell(2617), cwbowron(2600), zuko3d(2598), zaphus(2596) 2010-09-10T23:20:47 *** caytchen has quit IRC () 2010-09-10T23:20:49 that canvas viewer is nice, but it's too big for my laptops screen, I cant see the graph at the same time as the action :-( 2010-09-10T23:20:50 oh :P 2010-09-10T23:21:02 the id number of a planet is constant yes? 2010-09-10T23:21:03 Zaphus: the graph isn't animated anyway 2010-09-10T23:21:09 antimatroid1: think so 2010-09-10T23:21:11 hope so 2010-09-10T23:21:24 jmcarthur: doesnt stop me wanting to look at it :-) 2010-09-10T23:21:25 yes 2010-09-10T23:22:07 i wish fleets had ids 2010-09-10T23:22:17 they...do... 2010-09-10T23:22:21 err 2010-09-10T23:22:29 might not be consistent :P 2010-09-10T23:23:02 i don't see fleet ids 2010-09-10T23:23:21 danielvf: forum contest organizer time? 2010-09-10T23:23:32 F 2010-09-10T23:23:36 Did you guys see the new policy for merging changes into trunk? It's decentralizing. Now your code reviews can be approved by any other developer. Be responsible, though. Try to get negative reviews. Don't avoid critical reviewers just to push your change. 2010-09-10T23:23:53 jmcarthur: er, the original PlanetWars.h i have has "const Fleet& GetFleet(int fleet_id) 2010-09-10T23:23:54 contestbot: topic remove 4 2010-09-10T23:23:54 *** contestbot changes topic to "Official Google AI Challenge: http://ai-contest.com/ || http://contestbot.hypertriangle.com/ || Developers wanted, contact j3camero. || There is still an issue with the email sending for code compiling, stay stuned." 2010-09-10T23:23:56 " 2010-09-10T23:24:09 stuned 2010-09-10T23:24:16 contestbot: topic remove 4 2010-09-10T23:24:16 *** contestbot changes topic to "Official Google AI Challenge: http://ai-contest.com/ || http://contestbot.hypertriangle.com/ || Developers wanted, contact j3camero." 2010-09-10T23:24:18 Zannick: that id is generated by your bot not the server 2010-09-10T23:24:21 stay stoned 2010-09-10T23:24:29 no thanks 2010-09-10T23:24:35 no, it's generated by the engine, as it passes the fleets in order 2010-09-10T23:24:43 contestbot: topic add Now your code reviews can be approved by any other developer, no need for admin intervention. 2010-09-10T23:24:43 *** contestbot changes topic to "Official Google AI Challenge: http://ai-contest.com/ || http://contestbot.hypertriangle.com/ || Developers wanted, contact j3camero. || Now your code reviews can be approved by any other developer, no need for admin intervention." 2010-09-10T23:24:47 Zannick: oh implicit ids? 2010-09-10T23:24:58 it is useless for everything but accessing from the list of fleets 2010-09-10T23:25:11 i tore that apart 2010-09-10T23:25:36 i might just program from scratch in c 2010-09-10T23:25:52 hmm... i think my confusion was the spec 2010-09-10T23:26:06 is says that planets have implicit ids, but it doesn't say the same for fleets 2010-09-10T23:26:14 holy shit, indentation fixes are a life saver 2010-09-10T23:26:19 if fleets are always given in the same order then i am a little happier 2010-09-10T23:26:22 fixers* 2010-09-10T23:26:37 jmcarthur: yes, but some will disappear and some will appear 2010-09-10T23:26:44 of course 2010-09-10T23:26:52 meaning some ids will shift 2010-09-10T23:26:55 okay 2010-09-10T23:27:26 okay, so then... like i said earlier... i wish fleets had ids. 2010-09-10T23:27:30 *explicit* ones 2010-09-10T23:27:35 that don't change from turn to turn 2010-09-10T23:27:59 it would allow me to avoid processing fleets that i already know about 2010-09-10T23:28:00 make up something? 2010-09-10T23:28:11 making it up wouldn't help :P 2010-09-10T23:28:18 like hash the src and turn launched 2010-09-10T23:28:25 er, src, dest, turn launched 2010-09-10T23:28:27 You could diff the state each time, and find the changes. 2010-09-10T23:28:38 Then from that, build your own representation. 2010-09-10T23:28:46 yucky 2010-09-10T23:28:50 jmcarthur: oh, you want to only process *new* fleets? 2010-09-10T23:28:54 right! 2010-09-10T23:28:57 Yeah, fairly. :\ 2010-09-10T23:29:04 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o danielvf 2010-09-10T23:29:06 only new ones. i don't care about the ones i know about already 2010-09-10T23:29:06 hint: those are the ones with totaltraveltime - turnsremaining = 1 2010-09-10T23:29:09 Hide it in an abstraction, then pretend the code doesn't exist :) 2010-09-10T23:29:13 yeah i know 2010-09-10T23:31:25 i guess that is sufficient 2010-09-10T23:34:19 *** blbrown_win3 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T23:34:43 it is on, 2010 2010-09-10T23:34:46 Er, crap. 2010-09-10T23:34:59 I have a game result that ShowGame.jar won't display. 2010-09-10T23:35:03 Does the server have the Vector library available on it? 2010-09-10T23:35:13 It crashes with an IndexOutOfBoundsException. :( 2010-09-10T23:35:15 *** smhanov has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2010-09-10T23:35:35 any easy way to run the tcp server from windows? 2010-09-10T23:35:49 Nooo, that's not true. This file just has junk in it. 2010-09-10T23:40:09 when are organization links going to be fixed? 2010-09-10T23:40:11 is it possible to change the description you write on your profile? 2010-09-10T23:40:28 zeiris: the Vector haskell library? 2010-09-10T23:40:43 zeiris: i doubt it. i doubt vector even works well with ghc 6.8.2 2010-09-10T23:41:20 millertime: if you ask a maintainer really nicely 2010-09-10T23:41:21 *** Zaphus has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-10T23:43:58 *** blbrown_win3 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2010-09-10T23:44:32 *** zeiris has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-09-10T23:46:48 jmcarthur: oh, not a big deal 2010-09-10T23:48:42 *** seigen has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-10T23:49:20 @ping 2010-09-10T23:49:20 pong 2010-09-10T23:49:31 @match 2010-09-10T23:49:32 seigen: (match player1 [player2]) -- Get the most recent match of $player1. If $player2 is specified, then the most recent match between $player1 and $player2 2010-09-10T23:50:00 @match seigen aqkpn 2010-09-10T23:50:01 seigen: Error: 'seigen' is not a valid integer. 2010-09-10T23:50:26 @match 3886 2010-09-10T23:50:27 Zannick: (match player1 [player2]) -- Get the most recent match of $player1. If $player2 is specified, then the most recent match between $player1 and $player2 2010-09-10T23:50:40 helpful 2010-09-10T23:54:24 will turns_remaining of a fleet always be above 0? 2010-09-10T23:55:12 turns remaining = 1 means that you have one turn before it lands 2010-09-10T23:55:15 so yes 2010-09-10T23:55:20 I put a little note on the front page: http://ai-contest.com 2010-09-10T23:55:23 thanks 2010-09-10T23:56:31 j3camero: are you still looking for people to help? 2010-09-10T23:57:38 dstufft: yes. What are your interests? 2010-09-10T23:57:53 dstufft: what sort of stuff do you like to work on? 2010-09-10T23:58:08 hi guys 2010-09-10T23:58:21 @match 3957 2010-09-10T23:58:22 I'm a web dev by trade mostly Django/Python lately, manage my own servers etc as well 2010-09-10T23:58:22 millertime: (match player1 [player2]) -- Get the most recent match of $player1. If $player2 is specified, then the most recent match between $player1 and $player2 2010-09-10T23:58:36 and used to work doing networking for a small town ISP 2010-09-10T23:58:37 @match millertime 2010-09-10T23:58:38 millertime: Error: 'millertime' is not a valid integer. 2010-09-10T23:58:46 @match 3886 3957 2010-09-10T23:58:47 Zannick: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information. 2010-09-10T23:58:54 ouch 2010-09-10T23:58:57 millertime: He seems up to the task. :) 2010-09-10T23:59:04 i do not believe this is a working command 2010-09-10T23:59:17 same 2010-09-10T23:59:21 i think it's just the server timing out 2010-09-10T23:59:28 that last one anyway 2010-09-10T23:59:44 329 bots up now 2010-09-10T23:59:44 j3camero: if i can help get the PSU organization page to work.. i'd be happy to help there