2010-09-11T00:00:27 *** vikhyat has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T00:00:43 j3camero: i sent a pm earlier, mind if i send you one now? 2010-09-11T00:03:23 millertime: sounds good. I would love to have you on board. Send me your @gmail.com address and I will add you as a committer on the open soruce repo. Be sure to read this before you do anything: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/wiki/HowToContribute. 2010-09-11T00:04:39 j3camero: you know you can use the vactoids 2010-09-11T00:04:51 Zannick: match is not done yet 2010-09-11T00:05:14 j3camero: factoids* : contestbot: learn key as value 2010-09-11T00:05:27 j3camero: then you use contestbot: what key , and it replies value 2010-09-11T00:05:29 amstan: kk 2010-09-11T00:05:36 Zannick: game is though.. 2010-09-11T00:06:02 contestbot: game 4434405 2010-09-11T00:06:03 amstan: Game played at 2010-09-10 22:14:54, on map 700, dmj111 beat albert. http://ai-contest.com/visualizer_canvas.php?game_id=4434405 2010-09-11T00:07:08 are we going to be able to use usernames in place of ids for the match command? 2010-09-11T00:07:21 jmcarthur: yes, once i get the json done 2010-09-11T00:07:24 awesome 2010-09-11T00:07:35 amstan: thanks 2010-09-11T00:07:36 jmcarthur: ids won't work anyway, same problem 2010-09-11T00:07:49 hm 2010-09-11T00:07:55 jmcarthur: gameinfo was easy because game_info.php already exists 2010-09-11T00:08:15 shall i change the link for games on the profile page to visualizer_canvas? 2010-09-11T00:08:39 Zannick: idk about that yet, i think there was a reason we didn't just replace the java one directly 2010-09-11T00:08:44 kk 2010-09-11T00:09:32 *** ademar has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T00:11:36 Issuing order: 1 3 37 2010-09-11T00:11:37 Zannick: add it to the issues 2010-09-11T00:11:37 :) 2010-09-11T00:12:38 *** blbrown_win3 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T00:12:56 has anyone tried the jvm langauges clojure/scala with this project. Did either work? 2010-09-11T00:15:30 amstan: sure, so someone is reminded to change it when you've decided? 2010-09-11T00:18:35 okay, done. 2010-09-11T00:18:46 Okay I am going to bed. I will be back at it pretty much all day tomorrow. 2010-09-11T00:18:48 i am now going to work on my bot 2010-09-11T00:19:52 contestbot: game 4434927 2010-09-11T00:19:53 sigh: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information. 2010-09-11T00:19:55 ^ this game is (dmj111 vs sighbot) appears as a draw in my profile but the visualiser says the game is only 1 turn long 2010-09-11T00:20:48 contestbot doesn't like it either :( 2010-09-11T00:20:49 sigh: Error: "doesn't" is not a valid command. 2010-09-11T00:22:07 contestbot is interpreting everything as a command 2010-09-11T00:22:08 Zannick: Error: "is" is not a valid command. 2010-09-11T00:22:16 :) 2010-09-11T00:22:29 depends on your definition of "is", contestbot 2010-09-11T00:23:26 since contestbot always replies to sigh with "sigh: " I am reminded of Marvin the depressed robot 2010-09-11T00:24:06 well, everything he's told me so far has been very negative :P 2010-09-11T00:24:27 sigh. Error: "doesn't" is not a valid command. 2010-09-11T00:24:32 yes. 2010-09-11T00:24:38 "Brain the size of a planet and he keeps asking me to compute numbers" 2010-09-11T00:26:45 contestbot: echo [unload aichallenge] [load aichallenge] [game 4434927] 2010-09-11T00:26:45 amstan: Error: You don't have the owner capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified. 2010-09-11T00:27:03 contestbot: echo [unload aichallenge] [load aichallenge] [game 4434927] 2010-09-11T00:27:14 amstan: Error: There was a problem accessing the interface to ai-contest.com 2010-09-11T00:27:29 contestbot: You're not the only one 2010-09-11T00:27:30 contestbot: game 4434927 2010-09-11T00:27:30 RobotCaleb: Error: "You're" is not a valid command. 2010-09-11T00:27:41 amstan: Error: There was a problem accessing the interface to ai-contest.com 2010-09-11T00:28:09 RobotCaleb, sigh: yeah... that's why it's erroring, i changed the error message, it should say this now 2010-09-11T00:28:18 contestbot: game 4434927 2010-09-11T00:28:29 amstan: Error: There was a problem accessing the interface to ai-contest.com 2010-09-11T00:28:58 contestbot: game 4434927 2010-09-11T00:29:00 come on! 2010-09-11T00:29:01 you can do it 2010-09-11T00:29:03 amstan: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information. 2010-09-11T00:29:10 heh 2010-09-11T00:29:13 now it totally failed 2010-09-11T00:29:20 amstan: the visualiser is broken for that game too 2010-09-11T00:29:26 server is taking a 5 minute break. 2010-09-11T00:29:34 Might as well take contestbot out back 2010-09-11T00:29:38 it's having a smoke out by the shed. 2010-09-11T00:29:56 aha.. this time it couldn't parse it.. 2010-09-11T00:30:57 oh god, rewriting planetwars is painful 2010-09-11T00:31:04 I just want to note that a1k0n is insane. :) 2010-09-11T00:31:06 antimatroid1: rewriting? 2010-09-11T00:31:10 RobotCaleb: how so? 2010-09-11T00:31:34 I worked on the MarioAI challenge with him and then another failed project after that. He's intimidating. :) 2010-09-11T00:31:48 RobotCaleb: lol 2010-09-11T00:31:56 he's a pretty awesome guy 2010-09-11T00:32:04 a1k0n is the bomb, just so you know. 2010-09-11T00:32:14 I'm not arguing any of that. 2010-09-11T00:32:25 Ode to a1k0n 2010-09-11T00:32:26 a1k0n: he is probably 4 to 7 times better than me at... everything. 2010-09-11T00:32:37 hehe 2010-09-11T00:32:54 j3camero: that's why we host... not play 2010-09-11T00:32:58 lol 2010-09-11T00:33:45 j3camero: where do the numbers come from? lol 2010-09-11T00:34:54 woohoo... broke into the top 10 2010-09-11T00:35:26 @ranking 2010-09-11T00:35:27 millertime: Top 10 players: dmj111(2859), a1k0n(2853), albert(2794), seigen(2761), drewrobb(2740), danielvf(2728), sighbot(2709), mistabell(2648), Kavish(2612), zaphus(2585) 2010-09-11T00:35:41 sigh: nice job :) 2010-09-11T00:35:44 :) 2010-09-11T00:35:49 j3camero: sent request to join ai-contest-discuss 2010-09-11T00:37:28 been seeing a common strategy: sending just enough ships to neutral planets to be able to take them 2010-09-11T00:37:44 millertime: isn't that a very bad idea? 2010-09-11T00:38:02 well ideally it gets you a lot of planets... 2010-09-11T00:38:18 but you're right. the downside would be when the enemy hits it at the same time 2010-09-11T00:38:21 amstan: id say it depends, it allows you to spread yourself out more to get lots of planets, but each of those are more vulnerable 2010-09-11T00:38:55 amstan: pretty much, I can't stand private variables/functions (I'm a communist in that respect), and I want to set fleets and planets up better 2010-09-11T00:39:25 millertime: downside is when your enemy hits the turn *after* 2010-09-11T00:39:42 exactly [what i meant] 2010-09-11T00:39:58 ah 2010-09-11T00:40:10 Well, RageBot still beats my bot. :( I guess I just don't apply enough pressure. :( 2010-09-11T00:40:21 RageBot is suprisingly good 2010-09-11T00:40:37 I beat him on 43 of the example maps. (Both bots are deterministic, so that's an always.) 2010-09-11T00:41:08 with RageBot you need to learn to defend 2010-09-11T00:41:28 the starter pack strategies have nothing to do with defence, so it lets you down there 2010-09-11T00:41:45 Hrm, okay. That's what I was gonna work on next anyway. 2010-09-11T00:42:02 *** phreeza has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-09-11T00:42:12 hmmm, if i have external variables in my bot, and it plays against itself, is that going to be a problem? 2010-09-11T00:42:29 antimatroid1: ... no 2010-09-11T00:42:35 sigh: ragebot has been my main tough point.. and i agree with you but just dont know good defense tactics 2010-09-11T00:42:38 antimatroid1: each bot runs it's own instance to my knowledge 2010-09-11T00:42:41 Right now, I never send fleets to my own planets, and rarely leave many defenders. >:) 2010-09-11T00:42:59 okay, just wasn't entirely sure how external varialbes work 2010-09-11T00:43:05 antimatroid1: the 2 bots and the engine don't share any variables 2010-09-11T00:43:26 external variable in that i intend it to be indexible across files 2010-09-11T00:43:28 antimatroid1: they're external processes, and communicate with stdin and stdout 2010-09-11T00:43:51 i will just do it and see how I go :) 2010-09-11T00:43:53 cheers 2010-09-11T00:43:58 sigh: maybe buffing up weak planets when you're being beaten? 2010-09-11T00:44:10 animatroid1: I think you'd have to work hard to share data between your bots. 2010-09-11T00:44:29 bss03, millertime: I just treat my planets that are under attack the same way I treat enemy planets 2010-09-11T00:44:43 i don't want to share data between bots, just files, i want to avoid the accessing those variables across files from happening across bots 2010-09-11T00:44:51 the more i think about it the more my worry seems retarded ;) 2010-09-11T00:44:56 The only tricky bit is projecting how many ships will be need to keep it under my control 2010-09-11T00:45:02 antimatroid1: Like use something persistent but not a file -- maybe persisent shared memory segment or something. 2010-09-11T00:45:23 i can use external variables in c++ 2010-09-11T00:45:30 sigh: is there available data about incoming attacks? 2010-09-11T00:45:34 i will test whether they affect each other, i don't think they will 2010-09-11T00:45:46 millertime: you can get a list of all the fleets in the universe from what ive seen 2010-09-11T00:45:46 millertime: fleets vector 2010-09-11T00:45:54 yes, look at the destination planet in the fleets 2010-09-11T00:46:00 source, destination, owner, turns till they reach 2010-09-11T00:46:09 atleast in the python project i have 2010-09-11T00:46:15 wow, that sounds like it gets complex 2010-09-11T00:46:48 I know the c++ pack has a GetFleets() method in the PlanetWars class, other langages should be similar 2010-09-11T00:47:00 millertime: If it wasn't complex, it wouldn't be fun :P 2010-09-11T00:47:28 * bss03 agrees with sigh. Complexity = fun. 2010-09-11T00:47:43 complexity = debug time 2010-09-11T00:48:01 took me long enough to fix the 50 bugs i had in my current bot :P 2010-09-11T00:48:04 oops sorry, the functions are MyFleets() and EnemyFleets() 2010-09-11T00:48:13 I love watching the really good bots kick the crap outta me. Always gives me ideas on how to improve things. 2010-09-11T00:48:19 stop writing bugs then :D 2010-09-11T00:48:28 Wins are also fun to watch, but they just don't seem to have as much information. 2010-09-11T00:48:32 *** phreeza has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T00:48:52 bss03: Also good to watch the bots near the top, and see their strategies 2010-09-11T00:48:53 well thank you, i will do more research/tweaking and possibly try to incorporate some sort of defense 2010-09-11T00:48:57 gotta beat this stupid ragebot 2010-09-11T00:49:07 but first -- taco bell! 2010-09-11T00:49:15 blech 2010-09-11T00:49:22 Oooh, get me a 7-saver burrito. 2010-09-11T00:49:32 s/saver/layer/ 2010-09-11T00:49:36 heh 2010-09-11T00:49:41 The letters are so close to each other 2010-09-11T00:49:59 * bss03 hands millertime my last $5. 2010-09-11T00:50:46 RobotCaleb: My "typos" are mostly my brain getting ahead of my hands, and my lack of grounding in touch-typing. 2010-09-11T00:51:03 um 2010-09-11T00:51:12 Totally. Sometimes if I don't pay attention I'll type whole sentences that I didn't mean 2010-09-11T00:51:33 www.ai-contest.com/visualizer_canvas.php?game_id=4433459 appears to have trouble displaying turn 33 2010-09-11T00:51:52 I have a bad habit or leaving out the "not" or "n't" in a sentence. Screws up my meaning badly. :( 2010-09-11T00:52:04 ...and turn 65 2010-09-11T00:52:19 i think it has problems displaying turns without fleets 2010-09-11T00:52:51 I saw that with my early bot. It'll "stop" on turns without fleets, which is sorta wierd. 2010-09-11T00:53:21 maybe it assumes fleets and get's struck trying to render nothing 2010-09-11T00:54:39 Zannick's link is not even loading for me :( 2010-09-11T00:56:28 the java planet wars visualizer needs variable speed playback 2010-09-11T00:57:14 it would also be nice if they allowed you to skip to an arbitrary point in the game 2010-09-11T00:57:26 a scrubber! 2010-09-11T00:57:58 scrubber? 2010-09-11T00:58:57 video players have sliders that move through the video 2010-09-11T00:59:00 that's a scrubber 2010-09-11T00:59:07 ah, hadn 2010-09-11T00:59:14 hadn't heard that term before 2010-09-11T00:59:37 TIL the term macroblocking 2010-09-11T01:00:25 are you from reddit? :P 2010-09-11T01:00:38 is there hope in sight for server relief? 2010-09-11T01:00:40 heh 2010-09-11T01:01:10 I haven't heard the term TIL outside of reddit 2010-09-11T01:01:18 nor I, but it works quite well 2010-09-11T01:01:27 :) 2010-09-11T01:01:29 I use it outside of reddit, but haven't heard anyone else 2010-09-11T01:01:40 fair enough 2010-09-11T01:01:43 I try to keep it out of spoken conversation 2010-09-11T01:01:53 As with most acronyms 2010-09-11T01:02:08 rather, as with most internet acronyms 2010-09-11T01:02:08 haha, yeah... that would be as stupid has saying "lol" out loud 2010-09-11T01:02:15 (yes i've heard it being done) 2010-09-11T01:02:18 I've heard people do that 2010-09-11T01:02:22 :( 2010-09-11T01:03:06 haha, RobotCaleb.faith_in_humanity-- 2010-09-11T01:03:25 lol 2010-09-11T01:03:36 loll 2010-09-11T01:03:42 loll is a word :P 2010-09-11T01:03:55 indeed 2010-09-11T01:04:12 I can't say I've ever seen it used in a non-past tense form, though 2010-09-11T01:04:24 well, maybe "lolling", but never "loll" 2010-09-11T01:06:17 i heard some one say "i lolled out loud" out loud on the train last week 2010-09-11T01:06:32 i laughed out loud out loud 2010-09-11T01:06:56 you heard someone say they laughed out loud out loud out loud on the train? 2010-09-11T01:07:00 lolol 2010-09-11T01:07:02 >< 2010-09-11T01:08:44 *** blbrown_win3 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2010-09-11T01:09:15 ell oh ell 2010-09-11T01:12:04 hmmm... the match pairings seem random, wouldn't it be better if bots were matched up with opponents closer to their rank? 2010-09-11T01:12:34 sigh: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/detail?id=23 2010-09-11T01:12:37 we're waiting on j3camero to push that change to trunk 2010-09-11T01:13:01 ah, cool 2010-09-11T01:13:31 how many moves are there? if i give the engine 50 turns, it does 0, 1, ..., 50, so 51 turns? 2010-09-11T01:13:32 dstufft: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/detail?id=68 2010-09-11T01:13:47 i know the thing is set at 200 2010-09-11T01:13:50 but is that 200 or 201 2010-09-11T01:14:29 200 2010-09-11T01:14:55 the server engine starts at 1 and goes to 200 2010-09-11T01:15:20 Say someone has 0 ships on a planet w/ 0 growth. If you send 1 ship, you take it over and have... how many ships? 2010-09-11T01:15:25 1 2010-09-11T01:15:45 if you see something else, you have an unpatched engine 2010-09-11T01:15:51 trying to navigate the issues page, why are all issue trackers terrible 2010-09-11T01:16:45 Zannick: say I instead send 0 ships. Do I now own the planet with 0 ships? :p 2010-09-11T01:16:59 i think 0 ships is illegal 2010-09-11T01:17:03 a fleet w/ 0 ships i mean 2010-09-11T01:17:36 it should be illegal or ignored 2010-09-11T01:17:47 but since 0 is not greater than 0 you won't conquer it 2010-09-11T01:17:51 is it possible to own a planet with 0 ships? 2010-09-11T01:18:05 sigh: no 2010-09-11T01:18:09 yes 2010-09-11T01:18:30 if, after growth, you are attacked with the exact number of ships on your planet 2010-09-11T01:18:31 0 is not neutral by def? 2010-09-11T01:18:42 fair enough, thanks 2010-09-11T01:19:11 reducing a planet to 0 does not change its ownership 2010-09-11T01:19:45 most actual games I've played have minimum ship count 1 to avoid this 2010-09-11T01:20:07 bug, imo. 0 pop cannot grow. 2010-09-11T01:20:22 yes it can 2010-09-11T01:20:40 Is it anywhere documented, what protocol a bot must follow for input and output? Not the format, that is straightforward enough, but the actual sequence of reads and writes that must take place? 2010-09-11T01:20:41 yeah, that's the bug 2010-09-11T01:21:06 I've spent the last two hours trying to debug input/output code, and I can't make any bloody sense of what's going on 2010-09-11T01:21:07 rwa: the planet is still allied to you, despite you having "abandoned" it 2010-09-11T01:21:18 if you own a factory it will keep going even when there are no soldiers there :-) 2010-09-11T01:21:37 rwallace: the format is simple, like you said 2010-09-11T01:21:55 a bot does not have to read at all 2010-09-11T01:22:21 hey sup 2010-09-11T01:22:28 it does if it wants to know the state of the universe 2010-09-11T01:22:29 output is orders, followed by a line that just says "go" 2010-09-11T01:22:40 there isn't a sequence 2010-09-11T01:22:45 Zannick, oh doesn't it? Try taking the Java starter pack and replacing the code with just plain output of the 'go' line, and watch the engine reporting the result as having crashed 2010-09-11T01:22:46 did anyone ever figure out what's up with playgame.jar in some subset of configurations not working? 2010-09-11T01:23:06 since they are two separate pipes on the server 2010-09-11T01:23:07 (my two year old says "playgame playgame playgame" all the time btw, and i can't help but think of that) 2010-09-11T01:23:28 rwallace: i'm sorry 2010-09-11T01:23:55 java is borked on my computer for some stupid reason and i don't feel like fixing it 2010-09-11T01:24:01 yeah, if you try to run a bot that's "yes go" it totally doesn't work 2010-09-11T01:24:14 i think the input parsing on that thing is just totally bonkers 2010-09-11T01:24:29 contestbot: what sampledb 2010-09-11T01:24:29 dstufft: sampledb = http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~amstan/aichallenge/sample.sql 2010-09-11T01:24:32 and the client engine is still buggy 2010-09-11T01:24:37 yeah? 2010-09-11T01:24:40 a1k0n, so at least I'm not hallucinating :-) I don't suppose you have any idea what the actual story is? 2010-09-11T01:24:47 haven't figured it out 2010-09-11T01:24:59 I'll try posting a question on the forum 2010-09-11T01:25:03 *** dhartmei has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T01:25:06 but it seems work on my actual bot isn't really necessary at this point so i'll just work on that 2010-09-11T01:25:15 (man i'm such a dick) 2010-09-11T01:25:17 I mean, presumably whoever wrote the Java starter pack, must have figured out what the protocol was 2010-09-11T01:25:50 the author of the protocol 2010-09-11T01:26:20 bss03: haha, sorry! i left too quick :P 2010-09-11T01:26:27 most starter bots go: read input until 'go', parse, output orders, output 'go', repeat 2010-09-11T01:26:29 now i have to spend your $5 on beer 2010-09-11T01:26:48 Zannick, yes, that's what I'm doing, but it gets reported as having crashed 2010-09-11T01:27:21 as actually crashed? 2010-09-11T01:27:29 as opposed to "timed out"? 2010-09-11T01:27:53 Yes. Timed out happens when you try to read past the last line of input, which is annoying, but at least comprehensible 2010-09-11T01:28:00 This is different 2010-09-11T01:28:27 the engine reports "crashed" when there's an error on it reading from the pipe 2010-09-11T01:28:44 you might be throwing an exception? 2010-09-11T01:29:16 nope, I wrapped my code in an exception handler that writes to a log file. And verified that the log file writing is working correctly 2010-09-11T01:29:31 copy a map to testmap.txt, put "go" on the last line, then run java MyBot < testmap.txt 2010-09-11T01:29:49 this will simulate your bot for one turn and its output will be shown 2010-09-11T01:30:50 *** Zeiris has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T01:31:48 With respect to ghc 6.8.2 - why the old version, and why no update? 2010-09-11T01:31:51 is 100 turns to beat rage bot and 140 to beat dualbot good? 2010-09-11T01:31:54 Security issues? 2010-09-11T01:41:41 Zeiris: difficulties updating; if you can get a recent GHC on Ubuntu Hardy 8.04 server, then go for it 2010-09-11T01:42:56 How about the latest Haskell platform? 2010-09-11T01:43:14 I recall that being fairly easy to install, as long as you ensure the new binaries are in your path, not old ones. 2010-09-11T01:43:41 Benefit of the Platform is you'd get many of the common libraries installed as well :) 2010-09-11T01:45:16 I don't remember much of the details; ping jmcarthur. But I think he wants to use GHC head and submit binaries. 2010-09-11T01:45:29 anyways, time for me to sleep. 2010-09-11T01:46:48 *** zaphus has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T01:48:19 oh, and the channel is logged now, so I can close my client :-) 2010-09-11T01:48:23 *** Mathnerd314 has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.8/20100722155716]) 2010-09-11T01:49:21 *** zaphus has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2010-09-11T01:49:34 i changed a single number in my bot. it seems to be better now. 2010-09-11T01:49:48 guess i'll resubmit on the site 2010-09-11T01:49:48 that is how ai works 2010-09-11T01:51:11 actually i'm not submitting till it bakes on tcpserver for a while as i want it to fight drewrobb 2010-09-11T02:02:04 is it possible to be told the average time each bot took to make their moves in a game? 2010-09-11T02:02:12 i think that'd be interesting to see among the top bots 2010-09-11T02:02:35 Zannik: :D 2010-09-11T02:02:53 mine takes like 10ms 2010-09-11T02:03:02 yeah, i mean like later in the competition 2010-09-11T02:03:05 yeah 2010-09-11T02:03:14 would be interesting to see what top bots are taking what time 2010-09-11T02:03:25 well i expect it'll be either like, 995ms or 50ms 2010-09-11T02:03:36 e.g. searching vs heuristics 2010-09-11T02:03:43 s/e.g./i.e./ 2010-09-11T02:03:54 i think you can easily use up a decent chunk of time with heuristics 2010-09-11T02:03:59 dependent on how good they are 2010-09-11T02:04:54 wow, been trying to submit for so long :( 2010-09-11T02:05:32 i wonder how many people will seriously enter this time 2010-09-11T02:05:34 I want to submit before I go to bed. I made a lot of changes since my last submission. 2010-09-11T02:05:40 i hope it's at least reasonably competitive for top 100 2010-09-11T02:05:58 imo if you put a decent search one in last time you ranked fairly high 2010-09-11T02:06:02 I can sometimes beat RageBot, which didn't happen at all before. 2010-09-11T02:06:26 Website down-ish again? 2010-09-11T02:07:01 anyone have a batch already written for running through a bunch of bots on all the maps? 2010-09-11T02:07:40 Cyndre: i have a python script but atm it only supports python/java bots 2010-09-11T02:07:41 I have all the maps vs. one bot. 2010-09-11T02:07:53 So it could be an inner part of your loop. 2010-09-11T02:07:57 it does a list of bots vs that list + example bots 2010-09-11T02:08:10 I have a python bot :) 2010-09-11T02:08:19 it takes a long fucking time though 2010-09-11T02:08:28 for i in {1..100}; do { java -jar tools/PlayGame.jar maps/map$i.txt 1000 200 PlayGame.log ./Main.sh example_bots/RageBot | tee last.out > /dev/null; } 2>&1 | tee last.err >/dev/null; grep 'Wins!' last.err; done | sort | uniq -c 2010-09-11T02:08:32 sec i'll gist it 2010-09-11T02:08:51 Adjust some of the re-directions to taste. It still takes a while. 2010-09-11T02:13:22 *** icefox has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T02:13:46 Confirming: The official engine does planet production before fleet movement, right? 2010-09-11T02:14:02 bss03: yes 2010-09-11T02:15:19 Cyndre: this script is a WIP, it works but there's not much in the way of configuration atm, at the end it will print out some stats and shit 2010-09-11T02:16:07 bss03: why do you have a tee there and then you /dev/null it? 2010-09-11T02:16:07 http://gist.github.com/574904 2010-09-11T02:16:32 amstan: I had a redirection to /dev/null to start, then ... 2010-09-11T02:16:48 ok 2010-09-11T02:16:51 amstan: I had to do some debugging and put the tee in, but once I figured out what was wrong ... 2010-09-11T02:17:26 amstan: I figured I'd put back in the /dev/null without removing the tee; easier to change/extend in the future, I think. 2010-09-11T02:17:40 ok 2010-09-11T02:17:48 http://pastebin.com/JaRZPxze output of that script (with a modificaiton to only use 5 map files) 2010-09-11T02:18:02 amstan: I didn't write it that way at first, but I've used it at least a dozen times today, so it's gone though a few changes. 2010-09-11T02:18:45 contestbot: ranks 2010-09-11T02:18:56 amstan: Error: There was a problem accessing the interface to ai-contest.com 2010-09-11T02:18:56 so it's not just me.. 2010-09-11T02:19:27 oh man 2010-09-11T02:19:35 it's taking forever just to load htop 2010-09-11T02:19:40 *** seigen has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-11T02:20:12 yeah, I can't access any of the pages 2010-09-11T02:20:35 Cyndre: if you want to use that gist, just edit bots.json to modify what bots of yours you want to test 2010-09-11T02:20:45 it isn't mysqld either.. it's the bots themselves 2010-09-11T02:21:02 idk why jeff thinks it's a good idea to run both bots and www on the same box 2010-09-11T02:21:05 yours is bullybot? 2010-09-11T02:21:05 * pgpaskar_ slaps amstan 2010-09-11T02:21:21 ahhh >< 2010-09-11T02:21:22 pgpaskar_: it's dying! 2010-09-11T02:21:22 amstan: bots and www are on the same box? 2010-09-11T02:21:26 dstufft: yes! 2010-09-11T02:21:30 eww 2010-09-11T02:21:31 What's dying? 2010-09-11T02:21:32 Cyndre: I think his is StupidBot and StillStupidBot. :P 2010-09-11T02:21:34 i know! 2010-09-11T02:21:39 pgpaskar_: the server 2010-09-11T02:21:41 look: 2010-09-11T02:21:47 contestbot: rankings 2010-09-11T02:21:51 nothing.. 2010-09-11T02:21:54 ya i know its not loading 2010-09-11T02:21:55 well stupidbot and stillstupidbot are the examples that came with the unoffical python starter kit 2010-09-11T02:21:58 amstan: Error: There was a problem accessing the interface to ai-contest.com 2010-09-11T02:22:08 amstan: i would have put the bots on vm's >.> 2010-09-11T02:22:14 constestbot: sigh 2010-09-11T02:22:25 apache is still running though 2010-09-11T02:22:27 contestbot: alias sigh echo i know... 2010-09-11T02:22:27 amstan: (alias [] []) -- Adds a new key for factoid associated with . is only necessary if there's more than one factoid associated with . The same action can be accomplished by using the 'learn' function with a new key but an existing (verbatim) factoid content. 2010-09-11T02:22:32 contestbot: alias add sigh echo i know... 2010-09-11T02:22:32 amstan: The operation succeeded. 2010-09-11T02:22:35 o_O 2010-09-11T02:22:36 just not getting enough cpu time or io to do something useful 2010-09-11T02:22:36 lol 2010-09-11T02:22:50 contestbot: sigh 2010-09-11T02:22:50 i know... 2010-09-11T02:22:57 oh wow I can see this taking some time 2010-09-11T02:23:01 contestbot: sigh is awesome 2010-09-11T02:23:01 i know... 2010-09-11T02:23:03 apache too? 2010-09-11T02:23:04 D: 2010-09-11T02:23:05 i thought the bots were running somewhere on their own on some separate box 2010-09-11T02:23:41 The bots should run nice'd by 10 or so. Faster than background processes, but less important than a snappy website. 2010-09-11T02:23:45 pgpaskar_: no.. he got a product: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.80GHz 2010-09-11T02:23:51 pgpaskar_: for everything! 2010-09-11T02:23:52 ouch 2010-09-11T02:24:03 pgpaskar_: that's worse than just caffeine 2010-09-11T02:24:08 (Assuming we can't get someone to donate a server in order to separate the loads.) 2010-09-11T02:24:09 not to mention corn-syrup 2010-09-11T02:24:59 ok well... 2010-09-11T02:25:19 no matter how many devs we'll put into this, no way to make it faster 2010-09-11T02:25:25 and it's only going to get worse 2010-09-11T02:25:59 really, having the website up is more important than having the bots run, atm 2010-09-11T02:26:01 imo 2010-09-11T02:26:20 i agree.. 2010-09-11T02:26:30 is it to late to split the www to it's own server 2010-09-11T02:26:32 could you do like a google cloud thing and just have the server run bots and accept uploads and then submit results to google cloud? 2010-09-11T02:26:45 apache just sent me the css 2010-09-11T02:26:47 for aicontest.com 2010-09-11T02:26:48 lmfao 2010-09-11T02:26:50 dstuft: Really? It's tied together than closely? 2010-09-11T02:26:55 pageload! :D 2010-09-11T02:27:03 bss03: no i'm am asking 2010-09-11T02:27:06 if it's too late 2010-09-11T02:27:12 w/e im going to sleep 2010-09-11T02:27:13 amstan: what's the limiting factor here? if you had some money to get server time would that fix it, or are there issues in that everything was set up to work on the same machine? 2010-09-11T02:27:16 dstufft: maybe not, we had it split last term 2010-09-11T02:27:20 hopefully you guys can figure this out amstan :P 2010-09-11T02:27:30 rwa: i have no idea, jeff is doing all of this 2010-09-11T02:27:44 is jeff j3camero ? 2010-09-11T02:27:51 or is that someone else 2010-09-11T02:27:56 yes 2010-09-11T02:28:22 I'm broke, but it seems like if 20 of us pitched in 20 bucks we could get a slice somewhere that would be beefy enough to handle the www stuff. 2010-09-11T02:28:23 ok 2010-09-11T02:28:27 the server that runs hypertriangle.com is more powerful than what he has.. 2010-09-11T02:28:39 and i brought it at a surplus sale for $30 2010-09-11T02:28:42 lol 2010-09-11T02:28:53 At least until Dec. 1 or so. 2010-09-11T02:29:02 any idea how much www trafic there is? 2010-09-11T02:29:17 dstufft: should make the script put the winners name after each match 2010-09-11T02:29:26 dstufft: it's not the traffic, it has 2 logical cpus, and they're both at 100% 2010-09-11T02:29:56 amstan: yea i understand, i'm just rolling thoughts around in my head about the possiblities of splitting www off to it's own 2010-09-11T02:29:58 I think the goal is something like 20*10^6 page views or smth like that for the whole contest. 2010-09-11T02:30:01 a phone call needs to go into google to gently remind them that their name is on this server which is sputtering... 2010-09-11T02:30:09 but seriously, compare ai-challenge.com: http://pastebin.com/E4Zjdcs3 2010-09-11T02:30:21 with hypertriangle.com, from surplus sale: http://pastebin.com/kEucBPTX 2010-09-11T02:31:10 My 5 year old desktop is faster than that! :P 2010-09-11T02:31:12 amstan: you said it's the bot's holding things up? Not apache at all? 2010-09-11T02:31:12 what is hypertriangle.com? 2010-09-11T02:31:27 dstufft: bots, mysqld, and then apache 2010-09-11T02:31:33 sigh: a server that i run 2010-09-11T02:31:41 sigh: from my residential dsl line 2010-09-11T02:31:42 *** Zaphus has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T02:31:54 i see 2010-09-11T02:31:59 contestbot: topic add Sorry about the slowness. 2010-09-11T02:31:59 *** contestbot changes topic to "Official Google AI Challenge: http://ai-contest.com/ || http://contestbot.hypertriangle.com/ || Developers wanted, contact j3camero. || Now your code reviews can be approved by any other developer, no need for admin intervention. || Sorry about the slowness." 2010-09-11T02:32:10 Jeff did mention that maybe he wanted to limit the bots to 500ms or even 200ms maybe. I guess that might take some load off. *shrug* 2010-09-11T02:32:38 @rank 2010-09-11T02:32:38 bss03: Error: The command "rank" is available in the Alias, ChannelStats, and Factoids plugins. Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "rank". 2010-09-11T02:32:43 @alias rank 2010-09-11T02:32:45 well honestly the www should be split off to it's own server 2010-09-11T02:32:47 lol 2010-09-11T02:32:54 bss03: Error: There was a problem accessing the interface to ai-contest.com 2010-09-11T02:33:04 that would be a better solution then limiting the bots 2010-09-11T02:33:10 do planet id's start from 0 or 1? 2010-09-11T02:33:15 dstufft: yes 2010-09-11T02:33:19 dstufft: it's not exactly the bots.. 2010-09-11T02:33:27 dstufft: they can be slowed down.. 2010-09-11T02:33:28 antimatroid: in the Haskell version they start at 0. 2010-09-11T02:33:39 dstufft: they'll still get their cpu time, just less matches played 2010-09-11T02:33:48 which we don't want either 2010-09-11T02:33:50 dstufft: problem is priorities 2010-09-11T02:34:03 antimatroid: It's not in the wire protocol, so it'll probably be whatever array base your PL uses. 2010-09-11T02:34:04 how can i renice all the apache workers? 2010-09-11T02:34:05 limiting the bots would be bad... especially after the rules were set at 1 second - but limiting them wouldnt help if it still ran full steam ahead. maybe he needs to throw a few seconds rest for the server in between each match 2010-09-11T02:34:07 priority: more server! 2010-09-11T02:34:36 or hit Google up for some help 2010-09-11T02:35:11 ps -ef | awk '/apache/ { print $2} | xargs -l1 -- renice 10 -p 2010-09-11T02:35:28 Change /apache/ to whatever regex matches them all. 2010-09-11T02:35:44 i think if you renice the parent process of apache, that should get transfered to any new child processes 2010-09-11T02:35:47 can i get a second oppinion on that? is it wise? 2010-09-11T02:36:21 problem is: 2010-09-11T02:36:22 alex@alex-desktop:~$ ssh ai-contest.com -l amstan 2010-09-11T02:36:23 amstan@ai-contest.com's password: 2010-09-11T02:36:25 Write failed: Broken pipe 2010-09-11T02:36:25 dstufft is correct, processes inherit the priority of their parent. 2010-09-11T02:36:26 alex@alex-desktop:~$ 2010-09-11T02:36:40 can't even ssh into it.. lol 2010-09-11T02:36:45 :( 2010-09-11T02:37:11 fun stuff 2010-09-11T02:37:12 lol 2010-09-11T02:37:15 ouch 2010-09-11T02:37:24 My xargs arguments are wrong -- it's "-n1" not "-l1". 2010-09-11T02:37:27 its opening for me 2010-09-11T02:37:27 yeah, screw this 2010-09-11T02:37:40 if jeff doesn't get more servers there's very little hope 2010-09-11T02:37:46 now.. what should i watch tonight? 2010-09-11T02:38:02 amstan: does there happen to be an ipkvm on the server? 2010-09-11T02:38:18 dstufft: how would that make a difference? 2010-09-11T02:38:37 an ipkvm would let you get into the console out of band 2010-09-11T02:38:42 since ssh isn't working 2010-09-11T02:39:19 dstufft: it probably needs a restart 2010-09-11T02:39:29 to kill the tournament engine 2010-09-11T02:39:37 that would work too 2010-09-11T02:39:47 what good is ipkvm if bash won't even start 2010-09-11T02:39:58 amstan: Install memlockd and make sure the ssh binary, your shell binary, and the .sos the link with are locked in memory. 2010-09-11T02:40:33 amstan: Then, you can at least (ssh box 'remote command here'), even under heavy swappage. 2010-09-11T02:40:42 it's not swappage 2010-09-11T02:40:50 ram usage is 600mb/2GB 2010-09-11T02:40:58 it only has 2 gigs?! 2010-09-11T02:41:03 it's the 100% of each of the logical..... cpus 2010-09-11T02:41:03 LOL 2010-09-11T02:41:35 amstan: You know if you're running apache with it's default configuration. There's usually a lot of room for improvement right there, like throwing a MaxChildren in to keep it from swamping your server with 250 PHP-MySQL-bound processes? 2010-09-11T02:41:35 oh speaking on which, what are the memory constraints on the bots? 2010-09-11T02:41:46 Seriously, I'm going to put $20 in an envelope. Where can I mail it so we can get a real server? 2010-09-11T02:41:48 kirkeby: but if i can't even ssh.. 2010-09-11T02:42:14 Yeah, then that won't help right now, but if you get into the box at some point... 2010-09-11T02:42:33 idk what jeff was thinkings 2010-09-11T02:42:36 thinking* 2010-09-11T02:43:23 Stamps are ready; as are from-address mailing-labels; $s are in the envelope. 2010-09-11T02:43:29 Address? :P 2010-09-11T02:43:43 do you guys have actual contacts at google? 2010-09-11T02:43:49 *** bss03 is now known as bss03-AFK 2010-09-11T02:44:23 Zannick: jeff does 2010-09-11T02:44:58 is tournament_manager.sh executed by a cron or something 2010-09-11T02:45:26 dstufft: i think he can turn it on and off 2010-09-11T02:45:42 so.. idk 2010-09-11T02:45:46 (trying to get the flow of the program figured out) 2010-09-11T02:45:48 i think it's in a screen session 2010-09-11T02:46:30 we need more servers.. 2010-09-11T02:47:20 i guess it's running more then one game at a time or something 2010-09-11T02:47:47 doubtful 2010-09-11T02:48:04 pretty sure it is.. somehow 2010-09-11T02:48:10 but depending on the frequency tournament_manager.py is restarting, it's issuing a lot of large selects 2010-09-11T02:48:46 tournament_manager.py can only run one game at a time 2010-09-11T02:48:49 it looks like tournament_manager.py is started once per game 2010-09-11T02:48:54 there would have to be multiple instances 2010-09-11T02:49:00 yea 2010-09-11T02:49:14 not necessarily restarted each time, though 2010-09-11T02:49:44 looking at tournament_manager.py, atleast on the svn, it appears it is 2010-09-11T02:49:46 there's a while loop that it stays in for the commandline-given duration 2010-09-11T02:51:08 granted, each game can take up to 200 seconds, so if that number is small it's restarted every time 2010-09-11T02:51:26 er, it would be, depending on how it is run 2010-09-11T02:51:59 i assume it does restart every so often, because the select query is only done once per run, and it is necessary to grab new submissions regularly 2010-09-11T02:53:21 i'm really confused what this code is trying to do, while time.time() - start_time < time_limit: suggests that this loop is going to keep running until this particular game runs out of time 2010-09-11T02:53:37 but then in each iteration of the loop, it selects a new match up 2010-09-11T02:53:52 unless timeout is just supposed to be how long until this script itself dies 2010-09-11T02:53:56 to prevent memory leaks or w/e 2010-09-11T02:54:01 well not prevent 2010-09-11T02:54:41 *** Palmik has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T02:54:44 *** McLeopold has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T02:55:27 http://pastebin.com/HxNg9qiL ty dstufft 2010-09-11T02:55:32 yea that's what it's doing 2010-09-11T02:55:43 that timeout is like maxrequests for apache 2010-09-11T02:55:47 np Cyndre 2010-09-11T02:55:59 that rage bot is a beast 2010-09-11T02:56:14 rage bot on map 30 is interesting... 2010-09-11T02:56:59 so then my question would be, what timeout is tournament_manager.sh being called with, and how often is it being called with that 2010-09-11T02:57:12 ouch - that was nasty 2010-09-11T02:57:24 12 turns player2 wins 2010-09-11T02:58:20 Cyndre: you can mod it to provide that output fairly easily, i mostly plan on making test.py run automatically with github hooks and publish results to a webpage 2010-09-11T02:58:44 so i havn't added a ton of useful output other then some basic stuff 2010-09-11T02:59:46 nice 2010-09-11T03:00:58 dstufft, is the script publicly available? :) 2010-09-11T03:01:37 Palmik: sort of, i made a gist for it, but it's not "done", it does work for running tests and displaying the output on the shell 2010-09-11T03:01:58 output similar to what Cyndre pasted 2010-09-11T03:02:03 sec i'll get the gist link 2010-09-11T03:02:23 http://gist.github.com/574904 2010-09-11T03:02:33 Thank you very much :) 2010-09-11T03:02:58 test.py runs all the bots in bots.json against all the bots in bots.json + example.json (currently it only works for java and python bots) 2010-09-11T03:03:13 though adding in other bots would be easy 2010-09-11T03:03:31 just add a new elif to get_command for the language 2010-09-11T03:04:18 it's really slow though, since it runs every combination against all 100 maps 2010-09-11T03:04:47 (it's atleast smart enough to know that Bot1 vs Bot2 is the same as Bot2 vs Bot1) 2010-09-11T03:06:14 made some changes and survived to turn 57 on map30 against ragebot 2010-09-11T03:06:23 rerunning tests 2010-09-11T03:07:07 i also have a run.py that makes running bots easy lol 2010-09-11T03:07:15 but it only really makes it easier for python bots 2010-09-11T03:07:30 5/10 on ragebot now 2010-09-11T03:08:04 ./run.py stupidbot RageBot much easier then that long ass command 2010-09-11T03:09:34 http://gist.github.com/574932 2010-09-11T03:11:34 Hmm, why does not it like this as the location? : "location": ["../example_bots", "DualBot.jar"] 2010-09-11T03:13:05 where is test.py in relation to example_bots/ 2010-09-11T03:13:13 location is relative to test.py 2010-09-11T03:13:30 in /aaa/ directory :D 2010-09-11T03:14:01 well, I will have it in the same direcotory as /example_bots/ then 2010-09-11T03:14:53 ["..", "example_bots", "DualBot.jar"] 2010-09-11T03:14:56 try that 2010-09-11T03:15:03 ok 2010-09-11T03:15:13 it's using os.path.join(*location) 2010-09-11T03:15:23 well for java files anyways, forgot to didn't make it check 2010-09-11T03:15:32 forgot i* 2010-09-11T03:16:41 gotta run to the store (i have the script at /, my python bot at /botname.py, and /example_bots/DualBot.Jar) so that's the only thing i've tested 2010-09-11T03:17:20 *** jerkface03 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T03:17:26 Website's down 2010-09-11T03:17:33 we need aichallenge@home 2010-09-11T03:17:34 if you make a python script to join the tcp server let me know 2010-09-11T03:17:38 hiya jerkface03 2010-09-11T03:17:42 Yo 2010-09-11T03:17:46 http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/ 2010-09-11T03:18:34 dstufft, ok, thanks :) 2010-09-11T03:19:14 *** bss03-AFK is now known as bss03 2010-09-11T03:19:42 Well, I wanted to submit my new and improved bot and hopfully climb out of the 150s. :( 2010-09-11T03:19:59 But, I'm getting fed up with the website, and it's after 2AM here. 2010-09-11T03:20:11 do you beat the ragebot all the time bss03/ 2010-09-11T03:20:14 ? 2010-09-11T03:20:16 I hope things go more smoothly tomorrow. 2010-09-11T03:20:33 Cyndre: Nope. Only on 47/100 maps. But... 2010-09-11T03:20:44 jeff's gonna have a fun few days I think 2010-09-11T03:20:46 and DualBot? 2010-09-11T03:20:52 Cyndre: That's a marked improvemnt from my current bot, which beats it on 0/100 maps. 2010-09-11T03:21:17 Cyndre: I don't have a DualBot implementation, 'cause I'm using the unofficial Haskell starter package. 2010-09-11T03:21:32 dualbot is much easier to beat consistently 2010-09-11T03:21:47 Cyndre: I've got some more improvements to try and get 100/100 on RageBot. After that, ... 2010-09-11T03:21:49 8/10 2010-09-11T03:22:16 Cyndre: Or when I run out of simple improvements, I'll code up some more example bot implementations in Haskell and ... 2010-09-11T03:22:33 how is everyone approaching this 2010-09-11T03:22:35 Cyndre: Sumbit them to the guy that started the unofficial Haskell starter kit. 2010-09-11T03:22:44 Cyndre: very carefully ;) 2010-09-11T03:23:07 Anyone have a copy of the java starter package that they'd be able to forward me? 2010-09-11T03:23:08 5/10 on rage bot, 114 turns, 7/10 on dual bot 161 turns and others area all wins 2010-09-11T03:23:14 Cyndre: Can you read Haskell? My bot is Free Software. 2010-09-11T03:23:39 I can give it a shot 2010-09-11T03:23:40 Cyndre: http://github.com/stephen-smith/ai-contest-2010 2010-09-11T03:25:02 Cyndre: Basically, I substract attackers from my available ships, then find some juicy planets to attack using a fairly simple heuristic... 2010-09-11T03:26:13 Cyndre: I draw attackers from virtually all my planets, in proportion to how many ships they have available. 2010-09-11T03:26:24 Great. The Java visualizer doesn't work on my netbook :/ 2010-09-11T03:27:10 Cyndre: Repating this each turn results in rapid expansion and some aggresion, but leaves my planets ill defended. 2010-09-11T03:27:13 nice, currently Im only attacking if I can kill it all at once 2010-09-11T03:27:26 and I look for best loss to growth rate gain 2010-09-11T03:27:37 then check if I have a fleet incomming and dont send those ships off 2010-09-11T03:28:10 Cyndre: There's still some pretty "easy" optimizations to my strategy, plus I need to add code to reinforce planets that are being attacked, if I can save them. 2010-09-11T03:28:11 working on reinforcements or abandonment - not sure which is best - and deciding how to handle attacks 2010-09-11T03:28:17 lmao 2010-09-11T03:29:01 Im thinking sending them to my toughest planet and sending every ship from toughest to attacking planet 2010-09-11T03:29:26 everybody should go to bed... so I can get my code uploaded 2010-09-11T03:29:30 One thing is that even though I might attack 2-5 planets in a turn, I don't divvy up the fleet to my planets based on distance from the target. 2010-09-11T03:29:32 lmao 2010-09-11T03:29:33 using 1 planet as your attack staging point? 2010-09-11T03:29:47 bss03: thats something I want to work on as well 2010-09-11T03:29:51 that sounds like it'd end up wasting turns 2010-09-11T03:30:29 Also, I think some of the maps might benefit from a "waypoint" system, and calculating that on the first turn shouldn't east up too much time. 2010-09-11T03:30:30 *** Kastra has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T03:30:37 btw, sending around a ton of fleets size 1 is not good 2010-09-11T03:31:01 ooo waypoints 2010-09-11T03:31:12 "Oops! Google Chrome could not connect to ai-contest.com" :( 2010-09-11T03:31:21 dstufft: do you have a python implementation of the tcp server yet? 2010-09-11T03:31:38 Like if A -> C = 8, A -> B = 4, B -> C =4, then, at least most of the time, if you own A and B, you want to send troops from A to C via B. 2010-09-11T03:32:00 That way, you can redirect them half-way if the situation changes. 2010-09-11T03:33:11 *** _Utkarsh <_Utkarsh!~admin@117.201.81.60> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-09-11T03:33:15 BTW, the discussion here is about the bot I was trying to submit tonight. The current one I have up there is much stupider. 2010-09-11T03:33:57 do you only test against the ragebot and dualbot? 2010-09-11T03:34:13 ie am I wasting time on the others? 2010-09-11T03:34:14 It vastly overcommits to conquering a single planet, never attacks more than one planet in a turn, and may still completely miscalculate how many ships it takes to conquer an enemy planet. 2010-09-11T03:35:02 I test against RandomBot first. If I can't beat it 100/100, then I'm probably crashing, timing out, or sending illegal commands. 2010-09-11T03:35:28 Against RageBot I don't know if a loss is a error like that or just bad play. 2010-09-11T03:35:46 can anyone beat him often? 2010-09-11T03:35:50 let alone all the time? 2010-09-11T03:36:12 I'm betting some of the top 10 have no problem with RageBot. 2010-09-11T03:36:18 Cyndre: no i don't, honestly i just started a few hours ago 2010-09-11T03:36:21 I can beat RageBot 95% of the time 2010-09-11T03:36:24 with ai challenge 2010-09-11T03:36:43 others have claimed 100% 2010-09-11T03:36:50 I started 5 or so ago - Im 50% 2010-09-11T03:36:56 5 hours 2010-09-11T03:37:22 I told my roommate about rage bot, and he's like "Oh, he's easy to defeat". 2010-09-11T03:37:29 lmao 2010-09-11T03:37:39 He then proceeded to generate broken C++ code and still never won a game against RageBot. 2010-09-11T03:37:54 :( 2010-09-11T03:38:21 *** Utkarsh has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T03:38:33 would be cool if they had some serious computing power behind this 2010-09-11T03:38:36 Still, his bot is higher ranked then mine. My simplistic, over-aggressive, behavior is a horrible downfall. I give up my planets too eaay with the bot that is currently online. 2010-09-11T03:38:57 I think my new bot should be at least a little better about holding my current planets. 2010-09-11T03:39:00 I want to upload my new code :( 2010-09-11T03:39:09 Me too! 2010-09-11T03:39:16 I told it not to ship off ships that our going to die 2010-09-11T03:39:21 made a big diff 2010-09-11T03:40:49 *** Edgewort1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T03:40:53 Yeah, that's what I did as a first defense. If there are ships headed your way, hold enough of a defense back to win if possible, or at least take as many down as you can! 2010-09-11T03:41:33 Is it just me, or is the website down? 2010-09-11T03:41:37 it's down 2010-09-11T03:41:37 Still, I think being able to reinforce is going to be critical to breaking into the top. 2010-09-11T03:41:39 im sure 2010-09-11T03:41:45 yea 2010-09-11T03:41:51 It's been down for... 2 hours at least. 2010-09-11T03:41:52 reinforce or abandon 2010-09-11T03:42:00 even if you just simply abandoned 2010-09-11T03:42:10 Cyndre: i don't think abandoning is a good idea 2010-09-11T03:42:14 I don't think abandoning is really a good idea. 2010-09-11T03:42:21 abandoning can be i think 2010-09-11T03:42:41 For each ship you leave, it takes out one of theirs, so having them fly away is mostly a wash. 2010-09-11T03:42:44 vikyat: Im thinking of sending ships from dead planet to toughest planet, and sending all ships from toughest back to retake 2010-09-11T03:43:03 Cyndre: that would probably be a waste of turns 2010-09-11T03:43:19 oh i took abandoning to mean "let them kill the defense and take the planet" 2010-09-11T03:43:27 not get as many ships away as possible 2010-09-11T03:44:01 reinforce if possible, but if its dead, why leave ships to die? 2010-09-11T03:44:14 Cyndre: to make it easier to take back 2010-09-11T03:44:15 Cyndre: Because they kill your opps ships. 2010-09-11T03:44:35 Cyndre: If you are already ahead, it's a higher percentage of their fleet, so it hurts them more. 2010-09-11T03:44:59 Cyndre: If you are behind, well, then maybe abandoning is good, but you are slipping further behind. 2010-09-11T03:45:16 not abandoning but moving them somewhere more useful 2010-09-11T03:45:44 (Above) Ahead/behind in total # of ships, not production rate 2010-09-11T03:45:48 to the devs: is there a dev server included in the ai-contest source? 2010-09-11T03:45:53 ie: if you can kill the fleets source planet, send them their 2010-09-11T03:46:03 millertime: dev server? 2010-09-11T03:46:10 IMHO, it's better to try to keep the planet, because they lose the same amount of ships as you do, but you get to keep your 'income' -- If you can't save it however, you should take any planet you can with your ships on there. 2010-09-11T03:46:11 there is a localserver in the starter packs 2010-09-11T03:46:20 When I say "abandoning" I mean abandoning the planet by removing all your ships. Not abandoning your ship by leaving them on the planet but not sending reinforcements. 2010-09-11T03:46:27 Edgewort1: yea, what you said 2010-09-11T03:46:29 yeah, pardon my django lingo 2010-09-11T03:47:00 millertime the command to run the dev server is pretty long i forget it, are you using python bots by any chance? 2010-09-11T03:47:13 *** Edgewort1 is now known as Edgeworth 2010-09-11T03:47:21 http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/ 2010-09-11T03:47:22 i dont understand the question, i wanted to test the webserver 2010-09-11T03:47:29 *** syntaxglitch has quit IRC (Quit: return ()) 2010-09-11T03:47:30 oh the webserver 2010-09-11T03:47:41 i thought you wanted to make bots play a game against each other 2010-09-11T03:47:43 well, the website 2010-09-11T03:47:46 sorry 2010-09-11T03:47:55 i.e. run the php code 2010-09-11T03:47:56 i don't know if theres a dev server on the website, probably not 2010-09-11T03:48:10 millertime: The website source it on the Google Code Project, I think. But I'm not sure what they do to deploy. 2010-09-11T03:48:13 hmm, i guess i could configure apache to run it 2010-09-11T03:48:28 Or,. how well that process is automated / documented. 2010-09-11T03:48:48 millertime: the www/ directory has a lot of php files 2010-09-11T03:48:53 http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/source/browse/#svn/trunk/planet_wars/www 2010-09-11T03:49:17 i'm in it right now, locally. 2010-09-11T03:49:20 How many distance units do fleets travel in a turn? 2010-09-11T03:49:24 i'd like to run it locally 2010-09-11T03:49:41 Edgeworth: 1 2010-09-11T03:49:46 bss03: Thanks. 2010-09-11T03:50:29 Edgeworth: So, if distance = sqrt(dx^2 + dy^2) then totalTripTime = ceiling(distance). 2010-09-11T03:50:47 bss03: Yeah. 2010-09-11T03:51:05 I think a lot of the starter packages actually do the ceiling for you and just return an int. 2010-09-11T03:52:08 Hmm... I!m using the bashscript from forums to fight against all bots and it shows me, that I beath 2010-09-11T03:52:24 *beat all of them on all musp, but the script is imo broken 2010-09-11T03:52:29 *maps... man 2010-09-11T03:52:58 Don't you mean "*maps... mna"? 2010-09-11T03:53:05 :D 2010-09-11T03:55:32 Palmik: what's broken about it? 2010-09-11T03:55:41 btw, if you calculate all your spare ships first, and then you select some nasty planet to redirect them to, how do you go about distance? do you take average distance? Right now, all of my coordination happens only by chance, because I take planets with spare ships, sort planets, which would not be mine in the time the ships from the planet arrive there and then sort them by myGian + hisLoss / distance 2010-09-11T03:56:03 dstufft, I do not know, but I think that when I tried last time, the reage bot beat me 2010-09-11T03:56:12 *rage 2010-09-11T03:56:22 you need super secret coordination algorithm :D 2010-09-11T03:57:38 *** bss03 is now known as bss03-AFK 2010-09-11T03:58:59 *** Utkarsh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-09-11T03:59:44 PurplePanda, yeah, basically... or better, some super secret sure win one 2010-09-11T04:00:18 Palmik: i don't know the bash script all that well tbh or id help you :( 2010-09-11T04:01:17 I think it's this part [ "$RES2" = "Player 1 Wins!" ] because the output might have changed since then, gonna test it 2010-09-11T04:02:59 that should still be the output i think 2010-09-11T04:03:55 *** Utkarsh has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T04:25:23 *** mtcbot has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T04:28:22 *** mtcbot has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2010-09-11T04:28:29 *** mega1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T04:31:00 *** Kastra2 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T04:32:15 is it necessary to pointy-clicky to submit code, or can there be a cmdline way to do it? 2010-09-11T04:32:21 *** Kastra has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2010-09-11T04:32:41 rwa: someone on the forums mentioned having a curl script 2010-09-11T04:32:56 thanks 2010-09-11T04:33:24 the website uses cookies iirc 2010-09-11T04:33:30 so your curl script will have to save them 2010-09-11T04:34:12 the site is flat-out down now, isn't it? 2010-09-11T04:34:28 looks like it 2010-09-11T04:34:41 even though its late at night in the us 2010-09-11T04:35:14 theres probably a decent chance it ground to a halt and is deadlocked now 2010-09-11T04:39:48 *** Appleman1234 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T04:40:13 site down for anyone else ? 2010-09-11T04:40:19 Appleman1234: Yes 2010-09-11T04:40:21 yes 2010-09-11T04:40:29 thanks for the confirmation 2010-09-11T04:40:46 is a fix in the works ? 2010-09-11T04:41:01 Appleman1234: i think everyone who can fix it is asleep 2010-09-11T04:41:25 dstufft: Break into the server room and fix it. 2010-09-11T04:41:26 wow 2010-09-11T04:41:57 I am suprised someone doesn't have a laptop with ssh access and an email system with an alarm system 2010-09-11T04:42:13 Appleman1234: amstan couldn't ssh into it earlier 2010-09-11T04:42:23 Edgeworth: lol 2010-09-11T04:42:31 or nagios or some other monitoring solution with autoscripted diagnostics and solution 2010-09-11T04:42:46 dstufft, so the server / servers are physically down ? 2010-09-11T04:43:01 I am curious about the redundancy 2010-09-11T04:43:12 Appleman1234: We don't know if they are on the floor or not. Perhaps they should be elevated. 2010-09-11T04:43:14 Appleman1234: scroll up for a dose of reality 2010-09-11T04:43:32 scroll up ? I just got here ... 2010-09-11T04:43:35 server: crap. redundancy: none. 2010-09-11T04:43:44 server is a crap p4 2010-09-11T04:43:47 only 1 2010-09-11T04:43:52 running the bot's and the www 2010-09-11T04:44:00 ok 2010-09-11T04:44:33 so no mirror servers for www and not using same hosting arrangement as last years competiton 2010-09-11T04:44:46 i'm gonna offer to help and see if things can't get things split off and segregated properly 2010-09-11T04:44:53 but for tonight i go to bed 2010-09-11T04:44:58 Edgeworth, how literal are you 2010-09-11T04:45:06 Who do you think this is, google? ;) 2010-09-11T04:45:07 dstufft, understandable, sleep well 2010-09-11T04:45:23 greghaynes, I think this is university of waterloo comp sci club 2010-09-11T04:45:35 Appleman1234: Well, I could reply in a overly literal fashion, but I'm not going to. 2010-09-11T04:45:36 Yea, had to say it though 2010-09-11T04:45:51 with some sponsoring by google, to the tune of you can use our name on your competiton 2010-09-11T04:46:03 I bet they sponsor more than that 2010-09-11T04:46:06 I would hope... 2010-09-11T04:46:12 I don't know ... 2010-09-11T04:46:25 all I know is I tried to signup a week ago and it didn't let me 2010-09-11T04:46:46 At least the test system is much better this year, so you can still work on your bot with the servers down 2010-09-11T04:46:55 I signed up today , about one day late, then I go to a birthday for cousins and come back and the site is down 2010-09-11T04:47:08 I haven't even taken a look at the starter package yet 2010-09-11T04:47:18 Ah, maybe someone here has a vanilla one 2010-09-11T04:47:18 but thanks for the information regarding the test system 2010-09-11T04:47:20 Appleman1234: also check out the tcp server... 2010-09-11T04:47:26 well, you can test you bot on benzedrine in the meantime 2010-09-11T04:47:33 http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/ 2010-09-11T04:47:44 I have a vanilla starter package 2010-09-11T04:47:44 contestbot, tcpserver 2010-09-11T04:47:45 Palmik: tcpserver = http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/ 2010-09-11T04:47:45 Appleman1234: All the starter packs have a test app for running the bot 2010-09-11T04:47:47 thanks 2010-09-11T04:52:00 I wonder if the www site is being hosted by same site that hosts jpcameron.com 2010-09-11T04:52:14 as that also seems to be down 2010-09-11T04:55:31 *** Zaphus has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-11T04:55:31 a1k0n-0.2 souds scary :D 2010-09-11T04:55:36 *sounds 2010-09-11T04:56:21 *** Vio has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T05:12:03 *** s_denchev has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T05:12:47 *** levente_meszaros has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T05:13:48 hmmm 2010-09-11T05:15:14 *** mega1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-09-11T05:15:21 *** evgenius has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T05:15:24 *** Utkarsh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2010-09-11T05:16:49 *** Kastra2 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2010-09-11T05:17:14 greghaynes, do you know the syntax to run the test bot (the show / play game one shipped with starter package) ? 2010-09-11T05:18:18 Appleman1234 , which language do you use ? 2010-09-11T05:18:33 I am coding in c++ 2010-09-11T05:18:46 in fact I think that it doesn`t matter 2010-09-11T05:18:51 try something like this 2010-09-11T05:18:59 java -jar tools/PlayGame.jar maps/map%%i.txt 1000 1000 log.txt "java MyBot" "java -jar example_bots/BullyBot.jar" 2010-09-11T05:19:05 thanks 2010-09-11T05:19:14 *** tapwater has quit IRC (Quit: tapwater) 2010-09-11T05:19:24 *** amstan has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-09-11T05:19:32 and replace %%i with a number between 1 and 100 2010-09-11T05:19:39 Appleman1234: Replace 'java MyBot' with however you execute your program 2010-09-11T05:19:51 and java MyBot with your bot 2010-09-11T05:20:46 ok 2010-09-11T05:20:58 thanks 2010-09-11T05:21:00 *** Utkarsh has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T05:21:42 hey, guys. what does 1000 1000 in this command line? 2010-09-11T05:22:13 evgenius: One of them is the max time for a turn, the other is the max moves in a game 2010-09-11T05:23:05 thank you. quite useful 2010-09-11T05:23:28 take in mind that on the server max number of moves currently is 200 2010-09-11T05:23:40 *turns, not moves 2010-09-11T05:24:11 *** tebele has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T05:24:24 WHat's happening with the webpage? 2010-09-11T05:24:29 it doesn't work 2010-09-11T05:24:45 what's the difference between turns and moves? 2010-09-11T05:25:06 tebele: The server is currently down 2010-09-11T05:25:31 evgenius: About 4 letters 2010-09-11T05:25:51 :) 2010-09-11T05:26:53 in one turn you can make many moves. Move = sending a fleet to a planet 2010-09-11T05:27:07 ah, I got it 2010-09-11T05:27:30 *** s_denchev has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-11T05:27:46 Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Too many connections in /var/www/vhosts/ai-contest.com/www/mysql_login.php on line 17 2010-09-11T05:27:56 And where's Google? 2010-09-11T05:27:57 haha 2010-09-11T05:28:06 *** s_denchev has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T05:31:52 ahhh , Too many connections in /var/www/....mysql_login.php on line 17 :( 2010-09-11T05:31:54 I hope this is a DDoS attack, not just a server overload. because a DDoS can be stopped, but users trying to reach the site can't 2010-09-11T05:32:45 at least apache is back up now 2010-09-11T05:36:18 @rankings 2010-09-11T05:36:32 tebele: Error: There was a problem accessing the interface to ai-contest.com 2010-09-11T05:36:38 <@contestbot> tebele: Error: There was a problem accessing the interface to ai-contest.com 2010-09-11T05:36:39 jajaja 2010-09-11T05:38:07 *** tebele has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-11T05:39:33 wtf, i can get a debug statement out just before returning 1 on a function, but not directly after the call of it 2010-09-11T05:41:03 returning 1 will exit the function 2010-09-11T05:41:51 yes that would explain it 2010-09-11T05:41:56 i changged to void return types 2010-09-11T05:41:59 errr :P 2010-09-11T05:42:12 i just rewrote planet wars, i hope that is my only issue :P 2010-09-11T05:43:05 hmmm, no that was a different function that was void, poop 2010-09-11T05:43:32 vikhyat: it's directly after where I called the function that I can't output anything 2010-09-11T05:44:52 hmm... 2010-09-11T05:45:37 anybody up on the rules for multiple fleets? 2010-09-11T05:46:12 It looks like the tcp server will combine 2 orders if they come from the same source to the same dest and the same time. 2010-09-11T05:46:23 antimatroid1: the function might be doing something to your program flow 2010-09-11T05:46:47 McLeopold, it does 2010-09-11T05:46:55 combine indeed 2010-09-11T05:46:58 Good morning 2010-09-11T05:47:02 it's happening from passgamestate in planetwars :| 2010-09-11T05:47:08 Working on the website 2010-09-11T05:47:12 Is that for the official server as well? 2010-09-11T05:47:42 I was hoping I could mess up lazy programmers. :) 2010-09-11T05:48:17 What was the link for that tcp contest host? 2010-09-11T05:48:44 http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars 2010-09-11T05:48:47 McLeopold, it would be against the rules imo, if you do taht 2010-09-11T05:49:07 if it combines it, you are fine though 2010-09-11T05:49:32 morning danielvf 2010-09-11T05:49:42 Yea, it was annoying to write code to track it. 2010-09-11T05:49:48 phreeza: morning 2010-09-11T05:49:55 Looks like the website is sad 2010-09-11T05:50:05 would be sweet if the tcp server would tell you why the order is invalid :) 2010-09-11T05:50:17 Very sad 2010-09-11T05:50:25 hmmm 2010-09-11T05:50:34 I'm sure it does. I was accidentally sending it console logging with dates. 2010-09-11T05:50:40 just to clarify something 2010-09-11T05:50:47 you can issue multiple orders a turn 2010-09-11T05:50:49 It still played my games, but it sure did complain alot. 2010-09-11T05:51:02 McLeopold, it reports in format You issued an invalid order: src 2, dst 19, ships 1 2010-09-11T05:51:10 err 2010-09-11T05:51:38 Appleman1234, you can 2010-09-11T05:51:49 thanks 2010-09-11T05:51:54 right now I'm sending fleets of size one to make it simple :D 2010-09-11T05:52:00 vikhyat: it was me not remembering the program flow I myself wrote ;p 2010-09-11T05:52:49 Hey, I got a php error from the site rather than no response! 2010-09-11T05:52:52 Things are happening 2010-09-11T05:53:39 yep me too 2010-09-11T05:54:20 *** cobracom has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T05:56:25 *** rwa has quit IRC (Quit: rwa) 2010-09-11T05:57:02 *** mtcbot has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T05:59:13 now its snappy :) 2010-09-11T05:59:20 *** Vio has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2010-09-11T05:59:29 Yup. Rise website from the dead 2010-09-11T05:59:42 So I can cure you're illness 2010-09-11T05:59:47 *your 2010-09-11T05:59:48 Admins++ 2010-09-11T05:59:53 Thank you! :) 2010-09-11T06:00:30 *** icefox has quit IRC (Quit: icefox) 2010-09-11T06:00:34 Wow, It's up again 2010-09-11T06:00:48 all hail danielvf 2010-09-11T06:01:16 oh and i'm ranking higher than when it died :) 2010-09-11T06:01:39 @rankings 2010-09-11T06:01:50 I think its unhappy again 2010-09-11T06:01:50 phreeza: Error: There was a problem accessing the interface to ai-contest.com 2010-09-11T06:02:00 Yeah. 2010-09-11T06:02:00 Did it just go down again? 2010-09-11T06:02:03 All of yo at once 2010-09-11T06:02:04 gah, horrible error found 2010-09-11T06:02:09 "P 2010-09-11T06:02:18 I'm taking the website down for a sec 2010-09-11T06:02:24 I guess thats what happens when a million nerds upload at one 2010-09-11T06:02:27 er, once 2010-09-11T06:02:30 i was checking the first element of a vector in a vector of vectors, but not checking if the big vector was empty 2010-09-11T06:02:52 antimatroid1: C++: vectors of vectors of maps of vectors 2010-09-11T06:03:29 Edgeworth: I have a struct for nd tensors all compressed down into a 1d vector for a game theory library :P 2010-09-11T06:04:10 antimatroid1: That would make so much more sense if I knew what a tensor was :( 2010-09-11T06:04:18 *** mtcbot has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-11T06:04:26 Does anyone have a nifty script for running your bot across all bots on all maps and outputting a summary? 2010-09-11T06:04:45 there is one script on the forums 2010-09-11T06:05:23 Way to add to the anticipation of the sites' return ;) 2010-09-11T06:06:08 greghaynes, I haven't written one yet, as I just started brain stroming strategy ideas 2010-09-11T06:06:48 ah, well I think I can hack one out in bash, just didnt want to reinvent the wheel 2010-09-11T06:07:04 http://pastebin.com/J6CXSpeY - try this 2010-09-11T06:08:08 you need to change "./MyBot" to your bot command line, off course 2010-09-11T06:08:43 Website up, should stay up 2010-09-11T06:08:54 The profiles page was causing it to die 2010-09-11T06:08:56 evgenius: nice, thanks! 2010-09-11T06:09:03 So I've disabled that page for a sec 2010-09-11T06:10:29 *** Zaphus has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T06:12:16 did I miss much while I was gone ? seems the webserver is doing better, profiles disabled to improve performance I assume 2010-09-11T06:13:14 Zaphus: Yeah, that happened about a minute ago. 2010-09-11T06:13:22 Webserver was a zombie 2010-09-11T06:13:25 cool 2010-09-11T06:13:44 does anyone know what "oppo." means on the tcp server? 2010-09-11T06:13:51 Opponent ? 2010-09-11T06:14:11 Zaphus: it is listing a number there 2010-09-11T06:14:16 "Advanced Strategy Guide: I got nothin" -- lolwhat? 2010-09-11T06:14:42 Edgeworth: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/detail?id=24 2010-09-11T06:14:54 yay, i think my rewrite is mostly redone, sooo much better now 2010-09-11T06:16:32 vikhyat: I was wondering that too 2010-09-11T06:16:47 should probably read the elo documentation :) 2010-09-11T06:19:21 *** Kastra has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T06:19:28 Edgeworth: the tensor I refer to (a finite one) is like a matric, but with n indexing elements, like a database of information 2010-09-11T06:19:36 are profiles going to be back any time soon? how can we analyze the games of our bots? 2010-09-11T06:19:41 for games it's used to store payoffs for all possible combinations of players games 2010-09-11T06:19:47 matrix* 2010-09-11T06:20:23 is the edgeworth referring to an edgeworth box? 2010-09-11T06:22:19 nobody dugg my post to digg :-( ... either nobody loves me or digg really is dying fast with the latest version 2010-09-11T06:22:31 Zaphus: why are you on digg anyway? 2010-09-11T06:22:32 antimatroid1: It's actually a phoenix wright reference 2010-09-11T06:22:33 Its digg, no one loves it 2010-09-11T06:22:38 antimatroid1: But you can think of that if you want to. 2010-09-11T06:22:55 I'm part eco student, so I shall 2010-09-11T06:23:33 antimatroid1: And wow, there's actually someone who's name was Edgeworth. What an awesome 2010-09-11T06:23:36 antimatroid1: I just prefer digg, reddit feels... wrong... to me, or I just don't get it :-) too old 2010-09-11T06:23:48 Zaphus: you're doing it wrong 2010-09-11T06:24:24 www.reddit.com/r/math, /r/compsci, /r/askreddit, /r/programming, go have a read ;) 2010-09-11T06:24:35 vikhyat: It seems to be the average Elo of opponents it has played against 2010-09-11T06:25:03 phreeza: thanks! 2010-09-11T06:25:53 How do we find where our bot is ranked? (-- do we have to just ctrl-f on all ranking pages?) 2010-09-11T06:27:19 Not anymore, no 2010-09-11T06:27:30 ok r/math etc is pretty cool might have to pay more attention' 2010-09-11T06:27:41 Edgeworth: does it say on your profile? 2010-09-11T06:27:50 or write a better bot :P 2010-09-11T06:27:56 antimatroid1: It says 'profile temporarily disabled' 2010-09-11T06:28:26 antimatroid1: Oh wait, 2010-09-11T06:28:37 antimatroid1: Now it says 'lost connection to mysql server' :) 2010-09-11T06:28:50 hmm , strategies and decisions 2010-09-11T06:29:04 Edgeworth: now it's back to profile disabled. :P 2010-09-11T06:29:04 i think i've made most of my big decisions 2010-09-11T06:29:13 it's a matter of implementing and working out the dirty details 2010-09-11T06:29:35 my DoTurn function is still empty :| 2010-09-11T06:29:44 danielvf: so rankings are gone too now? :D 2010-09-11T06:30:11 mine is currently collecting comments, and once I have my strategies and metastragies sorted out I will start implementing 2010-09-11T06:30:12 No, just restarted mysql. Some non website code hammered it 2010-09-11T06:30:18 antimatroid1: I've coded up a bot. It seems to beat the example bots 2010-09-11T06:30:50 Appleman1234: whats a metastragtegy? oO 2010-09-11T06:30:53 i don't construct the god damn planets/fleets and planet wars objects every god damn turn anymore either 2010-09-11T06:31:22 phreeza, a strategy to choose when to use other strategies or combinations of strategies 2010-09-11T06:31:25 antimatroid1: Do you think that will impact a lot on the time? 2010-09-11T06:31:25 and no more getter/setter methods, communist programming <3 2010-09-11T06:31:41 Edgeworth, not really, but it's also made everything a lot simpler for me 2010-09-11T06:32:00 it was a bit of a fuckaround changing up all of planetwars and the main function in mybot 2010-09-11T06:32:11 I learnt my lesson last year, with my quick hacked up solution having less planning and my c++ rewrite having less bugs but peforming worse 2010-09-11T06:32:18 and i haven't looked at how long construction takes with fuckloads of fleets 2010-09-11T06:32:37 i learnt my lesson last year, I am being maticulous about not timing out 2010-09-11T06:32:42 well this year* 2010-09-11T06:32:49 antimatroid1: New plan: Make thousands of fleets. Timeout those who use the starter packages 2010-09-11T06:33:03 Edgeworth: I think the game engine now merges them 2010-09-11T06:33:12 but you still have quite a few in motion 2010-09-11T06:33:18 i only need to worry about processing new ones now 2010-09-11T06:33:31 you sitll have to read it from the game state string though 2010-09-11T06:33:43 it wouldn't be hard to implement timer code 2010-09-11T06:34:06 or even a stop hammer time condition after you have done truncation of relevant sorted lists / graphs 2010-09-11T06:34:10 no, but making sure you don't go too long without checking it is easy apparently 2010-09-11T06:34:25 timer code is easy.. I have it, but I wonder if I should disable it to find out if I am actually potentially timing out or not - can't tell if you dont let it happen 2010-09-11T06:34:39 I debug how long each turn takes 2010-09-11T06:34:46 as well as set up, update times etc. 2010-09-11T06:35:02 all goes into one file showing whatever I want each turn 2010-09-11T06:35:04 works quite well 2010-09-11T06:35:07 how do you do that on the target hardware? we get no info back 2010-09-11T06:35:18 you don't 2010-09-11T06:35:23 although you run your bot locally on tcp server 2010-09-11T06:35:37 so you don't really know if you have twice as much time, or half, on the real server 2010-09-11T06:35:45 nope 2010-09-11T06:35:47 cycles, not time 2010-09-11T06:36:01 i try to optimise strategy 2010-09-11T06:36:15 and just figure everyone gets fair number of cpu cycles on the server 2010-09-11T06:36:16 does the server still let fleets of 0 through ? 2010-09-11T06:36:21 not sure 2010-09-11T06:36:30 there was a simple proposed fix 2010-09-11T06:36:41 as in < == <= 0 for an illegal move or whaever 2010-09-11T06:36:47 I've been using those for debugging - sending fleets of 0 to planets I wanted to avoid, then I can see it in the replay :-) 2010-09-11T06:37:31 nice trick) 2010-09-11T06:39:32 is anyone trying global optimization yet? 2010-09-11T06:39:35 What port should I connect to for http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/ 2010-09-11T06:39:38 or thinks it can be done? 2010-09-11T06:39:47 global optimization? 2010-09-11T06:39:53 Edgeworth, it's 9999 2010-09-11T06:39:59 and it's in the comments 2010-09-11T06:39:59 i'm pretty sure I have a decent heristic at least 2010-09-11T06:40:01 Palmik: Thanks. 2010-09-11T06:40:06 i think searching is mostly out 2010-09-11T06:40:08 np 2010-09-11T06:40:14 antimatroid1 ya some form of actually searching the decision tree 2010-09-11T06:40:29 instead of just making decisions on the spot 2010-09-11T06:40:38 i can't seem to reduce the number of strategies enough while thinking i'll still get reasonable results 2010-09-11T06:40:40 based on some heuristic 2010-09-11T06:40:52 that is not to say I don't completely ignore the future 2010-09-11T06:41:08 yea theres so many choices... 2010-09-11T06:41:16 yep, that's what I like most aobut it 2010-09-11T06:41:27 and should be lots of competitors 2010-09-11T06:41:40 yea it makes it more diverse i guess 2010-09-11T06:41:48 there will be a lot of strategies 2010-09-11T06:41:53 theres a bit of Rock-Paper-Scissors about it, most strategies have a weakness. 2010-09-11T06:42:00 *** bartwe has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T06:42:05 hey 2010-09-11T06:42:22 Zaphus yea need to do some mixed strategies :) 2010-09-11T06:43:32 phreeza, I haven't tried it yet, and will probably do some of it using dp and various state based behaviours in a similar style to my tron bot last year 2010-09-11T06:43:50 not that my tron bot was anything spectacular or even decent 2010-09-11T06:45:26 ah i wonder if state is neccesary/desirable here 2010-09-11T06:45:36 except caching computations or stuff like that 2010-09-11T06:45:42 it fails in sending the confirmation email ? 2010-09-11T06:47:16 bartwe: the server has been overloaded with people registering today, just be a little patient ;) 2010-09-11T06:47:41 bartwe, gmail detects it as spam 2010-09-11T06:48:22 phreeza, not so much state and just condition checks, not like i implemented fsmes or anything 2010-09-11T06:48:46 aha 2010-09-11T06:55:22 *** Kastra has quit IRC (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de) 2010-09-11T06:56:10 *** smhanov has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T06:57:34 \ 2010-09-11T06:57:46 i'm missing information on which version of c# isbeing used 2010-09-11T07:01:14 *** Utkarsh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2010-09-11T07:01:48 loosing against a bot called "Simple" is especially frustrating 2010-09-11T07:02:28 phreeza: my username on the site this time is "youwillfail" :) 2010-09-11T07:03:00 *** Zeiris has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-09-11T07:03:20 *** Guest42921 is now known as Apophis 2010-09-11T07:06:42 *** Utkarsh has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T07:08:15 Can anyone help me get this hash function I wrote working? I'm pretty sure it should be rather trivial for someone good with C++ http://pastebin.com/Ax7iJZiy 2010-09-11T07:08:46 Once I make a long I just want to hash it how longs are normally hashed 2010-09-11T07:10:29 *** Appleman1234 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2010-09-11T07:10:50 what do you guys use for random number generators in c++? 2010-09-11T07:11:14 You're adding chance into your bot? 2010-09-11T07:11:31 it's not a major component 2010-09-11T07:11:36 possible future idea 2010-09-11T07:14:31 *** jaspervdj has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2010-09-11T07:15:08 *** aerique has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T07:24:27 antimatroid1: I usually use boost for that 2010-09-11T07:24:38 javagamer_Cpp: What behavior would you expect? 2010-09-11T07:24:50 what are the types of v.x and v.y? 2010-09-11T07:24:59 *** evgenius has left #aichallenge 2010-09-11T07:27:14 *** evgenius has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T07:27:44 Racko: does the server provide boost? 2010-09-11T07:28:09 Racko: using python for the moment but might switch later if it gets more computationally intensive 2010-09-11T07:28:19 afaik it does (did not upload a bot yet for this competition) 2010-09-11T07:28:28 http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/tcp.c does anybody have a Windows port of this? 2010-09-11T07:28:46 evgenius: should work with cygwin afaik 2010-09-11T07:28:54 *** danielvf has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-09-11T07:28:58 Racko, v.x and v.y are both ints 2010-09-11T07:29:02 i keep saying that after reading it, but has it actually worked for anyone? 2010-09-11T07:29:11 and I expected the hashing function for a long to change it 2010-09-11T07:29:17 i haven't got far enough to upload anything anywhere yet 2010-09-11T07:30:06 javagamer_Cpp: I guess I didn't "receive" the first part of your message. Only got "and I expected the hashing function for a long to change it" 2010-09-11T07:30:14 ah 2010-09-11T07:30:17 my mistake 2010-09-11T07:30:20 there it is^^ 2010-09-11T07:30:47 *** danielvf has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T07:31:04 size_t is defined as int or long? 2010-09-11T07:31:13 *** Vio has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T07:31:23 a1k0n: don't you think your employers could provide some servers? :D if google isn't stepping up 2010-09-11T07:31:34 I think it's defined as an int iirc 2010-09-11T07:31:50 ERROR: failed to start client: java -jar example_bots/RandomBot.jar 2010-09-11T07:31:50 Exception in thread "Thread-2" java.lang.ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException: 1 2010-09-11T07:31:50 at ViewerPanel.run(ViewerPanel.java:85) 2010-09-11T07:31:51 at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:619) 2010-09-11T07:31:52 unsigned int? 2010-09-11T07:33:09 Yeah, apparently an unsigned int http://www.cplusplus.com/reference/clibrary/cstring/size_t/ 2010-09-11T07:33:56 but i think thats not universal, might be different on 64 bit systems or microchips etc 2010-09-11T07:34:01 but thats just me guessing 2010-09-11T07:34:02 is there much chance of the website working in the next hour? don't know if to wait to be able upload code or go to sleep ... :) 2010-09-11T07:35:44 the commands on http://ai-contest.com/using_the_tools.php don't work for me 2010-09-11T07:35:53 ERROR: failed to start client: java -jar example_bots/RandomBot.jar 2010-09-11T07:36:46 PurplePanda: I'm working on it 2010-09-11T07:36:56 on windows i get immediate timeout warnings on the same example commands 2010-09-11T07:37:01 awesome i'll wait a while 2010-09-11T07:37:07 PurplePanda: it was up for about two hours 2010-09-11T07:37:27 well thats something ;D 2010-09-11T07:38:21 thar goes the server 2010-09-11T07:38:45 javagamer_Cpp: well ... either way: as printing the result with %ld prints a pretty (and correct) 64bit integer I guess size_t is big enough for both v.x and v.y so that your hash function doesn't have to do anything but put them next to each other in the size_t result. Better use << 32 and || rather than multiplicationand addition though. 2010-09-11T07:39:25 * greghaynes waves to PurplePanda 2010-09-11T07:39:33 Tach greghaynes :D 2010-09-11T07:39:46 I wrote a more interesting bot just now 2010-09-11T07:39:51 heh, me also 2010-09-11T07:40:01 javagamer_Cpp: Just hope v.x and v.y are 32 bit ints :P 2010-09-11T07:40:12 not so confident as to say effective, but interesting at least :) 2010-09-11T07:40:20 Ill be watching 2010-09-11T07:40:53 i should really work out how to test locally 2010-09-11T07:41:01 instead of submitting constantly :P 2010-09-11T07:41:26 Theres the jar app in the tools dir in each starter package 2010-09-11T07:41:31 It works well 2010-09-11T07:41:47 Almost as well as sleep... 2010-09-11T07:42:14 Racko, I was just thinking that while my code should produce a unique number per position there'd be too little change in similar numbers to make it a good hash function 2010-09-11T07:43:05 *** Umsturz has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T07:43:10 and I completely forgot about << (my C++ isn't quite up to par here), but now I see that's definitely the way to go 2010-09-11T07:43:24 mm well my jdk port is still broken since the time i pkg_deinstall'd open office. maybe i can fix that now 2010-09-11T07:47:21 javagamer_Cpp: The Java code for long hashs is (int)(this.longValue()^(this.longValue()>>>32)) 2010-09-11T07:47:30 website is back 2010-09-11T07:47:38 I guess you could just "translate" that^^ 2010-09-11T07:48:21 *** Appleman1234 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T07:50:28 Racko, thanks, that sounds good! 2010-09-11T07:51:28 So would: v.x || (v.y << 32); be how I combine v.x and v.y? 2010-09-11T07:51:48 ^ is xor and it's the same in cpp 2010-09-11T07:52:08 ah 2010-09-11T07:52:11 forget it 2010-09-11T07:52:14 Actually, now that I think about it I could probably just hash using this 2010-09-11T07:52:15 yes, it is 2010-09-11T07:52:30 that's what I said before 2010-09-11T07:52:37 to combine them into a long 2010-09-11T07:52:54 to hash a long to an int you would use (int)(this.longValue()^(this.longValue()>>>32)) 2010-09-11T07:53:16 I mean, rather than using a point as my key I could just convert it to a long first and use that 2010-09-11T07:53:23 right 2010-09-11T07:53:30 *** Obeleh has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T07:53:38 Though now that I've gone this far I might as well just use that, thanks a bunch! 2010-09-11T07:54:04 hey all :) 2010-09-11T07:54:42 *** Utkarsh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-09-11T07:55:46 hmm what strategies to code first 2010-09-11T07:56:04 *** McLeopold has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-09-11T07:56:14 some planet harvesting strategy was my first step 2010-09-11T07:57:05 I'm still trying to organize all my data as efficiently as I can, my strategy is just a slightly modified version of the starter pack 2010-09-11T07:57:20 does someone have decent code for testing Mybot versus exaplmebots on windows ? 2010-09-11T07:58:10 just a batch script 2010-09-11T07:59:00 All I did was put a compile line in it first then remove my old log file and then play one round 2010-09-11T07:59:55 I am trying to made a batch to play on all maps vs all example bots but I don`t know how to parse results well :( 2010-09-11T07:59:56 i'm looking forward to seeing the first haskell bots :) are there any playing on the tcp server yet? 2010-09-11T08:00:07 *** Utkarsh has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T08:01:36 danielvf: does the ranking show all bots at the moment? how come there are no negative elo scores? 2010-09-11T08:02:10 phreeza: I don't know how the elo scores work 2010-09-11T08:03:04 but theres no cutoff or anything? 339 contestants at the moment? 2010-09-11T08:03:19 phreeza: I think the ranking shows everyone who submitted a bot, and the bot has played games 2010-09-11T08:03:30 aha 2010-09-11T08:05:12 maybe the ones with no games yet are counted as -9999 and thats why the elo scores are so high 2010-09-11T08:05:30 phreeza: they boosted the elo scores yesterday 2010-09-11T08:05:36 * danielvf afk for mo 2010-09-11T08:05:40 phreeza: elo scores got boosted (at my request) 2010-09-11T08:05:55 ah ok :) psychological reasons? 2010-09-11T08:05:58 yep :P 2010-09-11T08:06:17 i figured it'd be better for the new comers and people who aren't as great at programming 2010-09-11T08:06:17 by how much? 2010-09-11T08:06:27 no idea, too much in the end 2010-09-11T08:06:31 2k? 2010-09-11T08:06:55 rofl at my line of thought 2010-09-11T08:07:20 lol at init's country selection 2010-09-11T08:07:29 phreeza: I think so 2010-09-11T08:07:37 that's what I was going to say anyway, but wasn't positive 2010-09-11T08:08:04 *** JensT1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T08:08:12 the first comment for the line of code I write is // if we are awesome do nothing .... 2010-09-11T08:08:50 there's already quite a few australians this time 2010-09-11T08:08:58 some decent competition hopefully 2010-09-11T08:10:24 you are australian antimatroid1 ? 2010-09-11T08:10:31 antimatroid1, I am not sure about how good competition I am 2010-09-11T08:10:53 I ended up doing pretty lousy last year 2010-09-11T08:11:05 but I have lots of fun, and that is the main thing for me 2010-09-11T08:11:41 you are australian Appleman1234 ? 2010-09-11T08:12:29 PurplePanda, Yes 2010-09-11T08:12:36 :D 2010-09-11T08:12:44 PurplePanda, antimatroid1 should be as well, from a whois 2010-09-11T08:12:45 * PurplePanda from melbourne 2010-09-11T08:13:01 PurplePanda, I think I remember your username from last year 2010-09-11T08:13:11 yeah I failed alot :D 2010-09-11T08:13:38 my bot has a new name this time. He is called "incarnadine" 2010-09-11T08:13:43 antimatroid1: hm i can't find the boosting in the source, do you know who did it? 2010-09-11T08:14:33 ah found it, nvm 2010-09-11T08:14:42 its 2000 2010-09-11T08:14:46 as i thought :) 2010-09-11T08:15:47 :) 2010-09-11T08:16:11 I don't know whether to feel proud or guility at the amount of geek references in my code 2010-09-11T08:16:18 a good thing would be to add the lowest score to everyone. then 0 is always the worst 2010-09-11T08:17:33 *** Zaphus has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-11T08:18:18 * antimatroid1 from tasmania 2010-09-11T08:18:30 phreeza: what boosting in the source? 2010-09-11T08:18:54 PurplePanda, you mean subtract? 2010-09-11T08:19:04 elo = int(elo) + 2000 2010-09-11T08:19:14 well they used to be negative 2010-09-11T08:19:14 thats what i was looking for :) but i found it 2010-09-11T08:19:15 Appleman1234: I originally planned to have my code resemble a bot for an isomorphic problem with candy mountains, rainbow attacks, unicorns etc. but it was too confusing, so I got ofer that 2010-09-11T08:19:20 so that would be add 2010-09-11T08:19:52 Still, subtracting a negative from the same negative will give you zero, adding would just double the lower score ;) 2010-09-11T08:20:13 erm 2010-09-11T08:20:16 yeah, i mean subtract :P 2010-09-11T08:20:18 antimatroid1, mine are just simple, mentions of awesome and defcon in variable names and such 2010-09-11T08:20:26 but i dont think of it like that :P 2010-09-11T08:21:47 i'm not sure about that solution 2010-09-11T08:21:59 actually dw 2010-09-11T08:24:10 *** levente_meszaros has quit IRC (Quit: ...) 2010-09-11T08:28:03 boo, how am I supossed to improve my bot if cant analyze games? :( 2010-09-11T08:28:18 and this on my last free weekend of the month 2010-09-11T08:28:28 JensT1: play on the tcp server 2010-09-11T08:28:39 http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/ 2010-09-11T08:28:49 k, thx 2010-09-11T08:28:51 gonna try that 2010-09-11T08:29:14 speaking of, a1k0n isn't on top anymore 2010-09-11T08:29:19 on official server invalid orders are not ingnored but you get auto loss, right? 2010-09-11T08:29:20 McLeopold 2010-09-11T08:29:33 reminds me of those things out of charlie the unicorn 2010-09-11T08:29:52 yep 2010-09-11T08:30:42 I would rather find out why am I sending invalid orders in the first place, but i guess some "send only if valied" function will do for now 2010-09-11T08:31:05 i would recommend such a function in your final bot 2010-09-11T08:31:14 provided you aren't exhausting most of your time 2010-09-11T08:32:15 yep 2010-09-11T08:32:27 how can i connect to that tcp thing with a python bot? 2010-09-11T08:32:38 Hey I uploaded a new version of my bot. Got the mail that it compiled but now I lost my spot on the rankings. Cant find it at all 2010-09-11T08:32:43 grab tcp.c and read the header 2010-09-11T08:33:02 Obeleh: rankings are reset when you upload a file 2010-09-11T08:33:20 K I just didn't expect it 2010-09-11T08:36:06 *** JensT1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-09-11T08:40:05 PurplePanda: Are you on windows? 2010-09-11T08:40:12 no 2010-09-11T08:40:19 FreeBSD 8.0-RELEASE 2010-09-11T08:40:56 tcp 213.3.30.106 9999 name myBot.py 2010-09-11T08:41:09 Assuming you have compiled his tcp code 2010-09-11T08:41:23 and you have chmod 755'd your bot 2010-09-11T08:41:46 and the bot's first line is #!/path/to/python 2010-09-11T08:42:36 Why does not the contest server like *.cpp? :'( 2010-09-11T08:44:33 danielvf, I don't know what this wants me to do http://codepad.org/oIwwsMKS 2010-09-11T08:44:47 *** davidr has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T08:44:57 is your bot's name MyBot.py? 2010-09-11T08:45:02 hi 2010-09-11T08:45:20 yep 2010-09-11T08:45:26 PurplePanda: try "./MyBot.py" 2010-09-11T08:45:31 Does it run if you type ./MyBot.py 2010-09-11T08:45:32 lol 2010-09-11T08:45:35 whay he said 2010-09-11T08:45:41 *what 2010-09-11T08:47:51 $./MyBot.py 2010-09-11T08:47:52 : No such file or directory 2010-09-11T08:47:56 :( 2010-09-11T08:48:18 almost finished writing my first draft 2010-09-11T08:48:29 PurplePanda: chmod u+x MyBot.py 2010-09-11T08:49:24 maybe i found it 2010-09-11T08:49:26 seriously... do all the source files have to be in one folder? no subfolders? 2010-09-11T08:49:58 no still not 2010-09-11T08:49:58 how many files do you need? 2010-09-11T08:49:59 How are you guys measuring time? 2010-09-11T08:50:13 *** JensT1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T08:50:29 javagame_Cpp: hold up, i'll code pad my timer code 2010-09-11T08:50:41 antimatroid1, not much... but I did not know about such restriction... not to rewrite half the includes :D 2010-09-11T08:52:41 http://codepad.org/bkZo4ELX 2010-09-11T08:52:45 thanks 2010-09-11T08:53:12 np 2010-09-11T08:53:29 should really be included in the start package imo 2010-09-11T08:54:10 *** davidr has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-11T08:54:41 *** Appleman1234 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2010-09-11T08:55:39 fine, it works now :) 2010-09-11T08:56:09 antimatroid1: I think we whould be happy there's a starters package to begin with :) 2010-09-11T08:56:27 *** JensT1 has left #aichallenge 2010-09-11T08:56:35 that was quick 2010-09-11T08:57:52 Anyone here that can do a code review? 2010-09-11T08:58:14 not i sorry 2010-09-11T08:58:15 you sure you wanna share you strategy? :D 2010-09-11T08:58:29 Palmik: proper code review for the comp 2010-09-11T09:00:39 lol 2010-09-11T09:01:09 It's for code going on the website - contest policy says a second person needs to read it. 2010-09-11T09:01:14 * a second dev 2010-09-11T09:01:18 * danielvf going afk 2010-09-11T09:01:28 ahaa :D 2010-09-11T09:02:06 http://pastebin.com/sze5SMrX for anyone looking for a small Java logger with timing 2010-09-11T09:03:19 *** rwa has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T09:04:24 ... and that's why I use c++ 2010-09-11T09:05:11 antimatroid1, it appears that my bot is in fact timing out, thank again 2010-09-11T09:05:13 for some reason each time I copy a vector it takes exponentially longer... 2010-09-11T09:07:28 *** mtcbot has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T09:07:35 it shouldn't be from the timer :| 2010-09-11T09:07:38 it works fine for me 2010-09-11T09:07:47 although i got kicked out of last contest for exceeding time limit 2010-09-11T09:07:50 Oh, I'm not blaming the timer 2010-09-11T09:07:59 but i'm pretty sure that wasn't a fault of the timer 2010-09-11T09:08:08 Last contest my bot did some kind of mysterious IO out of no where :/ 2010-09-11T09:08:26 we were sitting around 10th in final tournament when we timed out 2010-09-11T09:08:28 It was something I never saw in any of the testing, but it got kicked out of the contest for it 2010-09-11T09:08:32 was quite frustrating 2010-09-11T09:08:37 Ouch 2010-09-11T09:08:39 yep, same deal 2010-09-11T09:08:55 so i'm being maticulous this time around 2010-09-11T09:08:56 I was hoping to make it into the top 100, that must hurt even more 2010-09-11T09:09:10 i was expecting top 5 :| but oh well 2010-09-11T09:09:28 i don't think i'll (I should be saying we, I make my bot with a friend) do as well this time 2010-09-11T09:09:30 but we'll see 2010-09-11T09:09:33 I think I see what my problem is right now 2010-09-11T09:12:52 ? 2010-09-11T09:13:19 Hmm... seems I've made it even worse 2010-09-11T09:13:33 what are you doing? 2010-09-11T09:13:49 Trying to give each planet a pointer to every other planet 2010-09-11T09:14:02 i wouldn't bother 2010-09-11T09:14:05 profiles were causing a problem I guess? 2010-09-11T09:14:10 every planet can reach every other one 2010-09-11T09:14:17 just store distances 2010-09-11T09:14:21 Trying to sort them by distance 2010-09-11T09:14:27 sort indexes :P 2010-09-11T09:14:49 The problem is giving each planet a vector or pointers to the other planets though. 2010-09-11T09:14:54 I sort them by distance with no problem, but I guess my method is not optimal 2010-09-11T09:15:12 you already have a vector of planets right? 2010-09-11T09:15:13 By distance to some point, that is 2010-09-11T09:15:18 just use your index for that index value 2010-09-11T09:15:31 Hmm? 2010-09-11T09:15:32 *** mtcbot has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-11T09:16:04 I added a new private std::vector to each planet, is that the right way to go about things? 2010-09-11T09:16:18 for(i=0; i that is the kind of thing i do 2010-09-11T09:16:48 what should I do to run planetwars_tcp.c in MSVC? 2010-09-11T09:16:56 What includes do I need/ 2010-09-11T09:16:59 your above statement is correct otherwise though i think 2010-09-11T09:17:12 no idea about tcp thing sorry 2010-09-11T09:17:52 does anyone have a Windows binary for tcp server? 2010-09-11T09:18:14 I'm tired of trying to compile it under MinGW 2010-09-11T09:18:30 have you tried cygwin? 2010-09-11T09:18:38 javagamer_Cpp, it sure is one of the possible solutions... 2010-09-11T09:18:38 people say try that, but i haven't heard of anyone try 2010-09-11T09:18:43 downloading it 2010-09-11T09:18:45 so i'm curious as to whether it works or not 2010-09-11T09:19:01 evgenius: let me know how you go please :) 2010-09-11T09:19:02 http://pastebin.com/B7qWP2Tb <- is how I'm trying to copy references to the planets (sorting will come once I get this working) 2010-09-11T09:19:56 who has ObligatoryShampoo? 2010-09-11T09:21:09 not me 2010-09-11T09:21:15 javagamer_Cpp, if planets is array / vector of Planet it should work if closestPlanets is of appropriate size that is 2010-09-11T09:21:18 *** td has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T09:21:31 hey all 2010-09-11T09:22:01 closestPlanets is a std::vector so it should just resize to fit everything I put in, right? 2010-09-11T09:22:19 you have to use push_back 2010-09-11T09:22:21 afaik 2010-09-11T09:22:25 Oh yeah! 2010-09-11T09:24:11 is the server running games at the moment? 2010-09-11T09:24:13 That should just be copying a pointer right? b/c it looks like it's copying the object itself (which will result in an infinite loop since the objects will have a reference to themselves) 2010-09-11T09:24:24 *** JensT1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T09:24:36 *** td has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2010-09-11T09:25:48 yes, it should be just the pointer 2010-09-11T09:25:52 *** td has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T09:26:24 Alright b/c it's copying the first object fine, then spending forever on the second, so clearly I've messed something up 2010-09-11T09:27:07 woohoo, finally won a game against a1k0n 2010-09-11T09:27:14 O_O nice! 2010-09-11T09:28:05 how do you see which games you won if profiles are disabled? 2010-09-11T09:28:24 evgenius, he is probably talking about tcpserver 2010-09-11T09:28:43 Would anyone mind helping me get started? 2010-09-11T09:29:03 on the tcp server... 2010-09-11T09:29:21 td: what step are you up to? 2010-09-11T09:29:44 I've downloaded the C# starter package, and i'm trying to test this bot against itself... 2010-09-11T09:29:56 the readme states: The tools directory contains a game engine and visualizer. This is meant to be used to test your bot. See the relevant tutorials on the website for information about how to use the tools. 2010-09-11T09:30:12 td: this may also turn out to be relevant: http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=510&p=2846#p2846 2010-09-11T09:30:52 td, here is the command for running the bot http://ai-contest.com/starting_your_own.php 2010-09-11T09:32:06 javagamer_Cpp, btw... you loop right now is calculating the size of the vector for each iteratin 2010-09-11T09:32:29 except where it says "java MyBot", probably not going to use java to start a C# bot... 2010-09-11T09:32:56 ty rwa 2010-09-11T09:33:12 Palmik, I'm only running this code once, but I still probably should set the size once I know how big of a vector I'll be storing in it 2010-09-11T09:33:36 you are running it just once, but for each iteration of the loop the size is calculated gaian 2010-09-11T09:33:44 *again 2010-09-11T09:34:30 Oh, I meant something different, thanks for catching that 2010-09-11T09:34:37 hey the web site is going fast! 2010-09-11T09:34:37 I did it that a few times in my code already 2010-09-11T09:34:43 what did you guys do? 2010-09-11T09:35:04 whoever is using shredder, he timed out with me for the third time 2010-09-11T09:35:13 i see profiles are disabled 2010-09-11T09:35:18 jmcarthur, steroids! 2010-09-11T09:35:21 were they the big slowdown? 2010-09-11T09:35:55 probably a part of 2010-09-11T09:36:29 how long did it take for your bot to show up on the ladder? :) 2010-09-11T09:37:29 20-30mins 2010-09-11T09:37:36 before it play's it first match 2010-09-11T09:37:44 what is wrong with the c++ starter package? 2010-09-11T09:37:45 but the results are highly unstable 2010-09-11T09:37:48 i started off a fresh one earlier 2010-09-11T09:37:51 for the first hour 2010-09-11T09:38:18 could take longer as more people are joining 2010-09-11T09:38:48 fyi, once people have had their bots up for a while and you re-upload a new one, you will get lots of games quite fast as the server assigns you higher priority for games to work out your score 2010-09-11T09:38:56 only thing atm is everyone is trying to upload 2010-09-11T09:39:10 :) 2010-09-11T09:39:31 although having said that, games take longer for this than tron i think 2010-09-11T09:41:08 uploaded about 30 min ago, haven't appeared yet 2010-09-11T09:41:11 *** JensT1 has left #aichallenge 2010-09-11T09:42:01 Palmik, how did the size function take so long?! That was my problem, apparently the second time I ran that loop it took > 0.99 seconds. Now that I fixed it, the whole thing is <0.02 seconds 2010-09-11T09:42:03 thanks 2010-09-11T09:42:29 antimatroid1: a lot of bots this time around use hueristics instead of search, so they go surprisingly fast 2010-09-11T09:42:44 that's a good point 2010-09-11T09:42:44 its early in the contest 2010-09-11T09:42:55 it is 2010-09-11T09:42:55 search will happen soon enough 2010-09-11T09:42:56 i still expect a lot less bots to be trying to search 2010-09-11T09:43:08 but i still expect to be using a fair chunck 2010-09-11T09:43:08 i'm doing... psuedo-search 2010-09-11T09:43:21 yeah, try to most the most of what i know 2010-09-11T09:43:30 half-assed-search 2010-09-11T09:43:31 search is difficult in this case because the choice space per step is alot wider i guess 2010-09-11T09:43:32 * javagamer_Cpp is still working on organizing all the data 2010-09-11T09:43:42 *much* wider 2010-09-11T09:43:56 how many planets do most maps have? 2010-09-11T09:43:56 also, waiting i find difficult to model 2010-09-11T09:43:57 WAY WIDER 2010-09-11T09:44:06 23 2010-09-11T09:44:18 i think i could handle more 2010-09-11T09:44:58 so there could be 529 new fleets per turn if there are enough ships and all planets are currently owned 2010-09-11T09:45:11 oh, not that many 2010-09-11T09:45:17 506 2010-09-11T09:45:21 geh 2010-09-11T09:45:24 'only' 506 2010-09-11T09:45:27 yeah... 2010-09-11T09:45:42 that's fine 2010-09-11T09:45:43 so how many inflight fleets does that make ? 2010-09-11T09:46:43 i guess its possible to bring that down to numplanets*maxnumstepsbetweentwoplanets 2010-09-11T09:47:07 my bot doesn't really have a limitation based on that number 2010-09-11T09:47:31 bartwe: :) 2010-09-11T09:47:58 even better, i don't have planet wars setting up planets and fleet vectors every god damn turn 2010-09-11T09:48:32 reading that into object shouldn't cost much of anything 2010-09-11T09:49:04 but being able to retain that information without creating it anew means you can have a running analysis rather than having to start over each turn 2010-09-11T09:49:24 javagamer_Cpp, dunno :D no problem :) 2010-09-11T09:49:25 jmcarthur: careful, if planets are distances 1 appart, moves happen before you see it 2010-09-11T09:49:56 antimatroid1: dangit i thought of that but the reasoning in my head told me that i would still see the fleet... 2010-09-11T09:50:04 you wont 2010-09-11T09:50:09 dangit dangit dangit 2010-09-11T09:50:18 that's why i rewrote the entire planet wars thing 2010-09-11T09:50:31 why couldn't the engine just send diffs? why does it have to recreate the world? so annoying 2010-09-11T09:50:46 yeah i'm rewriting it anyway 2010-09-11T09:50:51 but the protocol still works that way 2010-09-11T09:50:59 then in that instance it's not too hard to account for 2010-09-11T09:51:00 so its equivalent to adding another wrapper to an existing starter anyway 2010-09-11T09:51:18 otherwise it was a nightmare 2010-09-11T09:51:19 I have updated my bot longtime ago. it's not in the ratings yet.. 2010-09-11T09:51:42 number of rated bots is steadily dropping... 2010-09-11T09:52:00 rwa, how so? 2010-09-11T09:52:21 *** JoeCroqueta has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T09:52:24 when I first started looking about 40 minutes ago there were 330 2010-09-11T09:52:33 yeah, people are timing out etc. i expect 2010-09-11T09:52:35 now down to 324 one by one 2010-09-11T09:52:42 you are right indeed 2010-09-11T09:52:44 Hello 2010-09-11T09:52:58 probably just people reuploading 2010-09-11T09:53:06 and that 2010-09-11T09:53:18 when you time out, you are removed from the ladder? 2010-09-11T09:53:21 rudd's bot really sucks 2010-09-11T09:53:24 Palmik: yeah 2010-09-11T09:53:26 I thought you would just lose a game 2010-09-11T09:53:27 stupid i know 2010-09-11T09:53:36 Palmik: bars for disqualification in the final tournament, be careful 2010-09-11T09:53:59 has the reason for that rule been explained? it's terribad 2010-09-11T09:54:05 how do I know if my bot has been disqualified? 2010-09-11T09:54:06 i think dc should be reserved for bots suspected/known of cheating 2010-09-11T09:54:24 rwa: the reason I was given was that they didn't want bots up there that waste time 2010-09-11T09:54:24 antimatroid1, I see 2010-09-11T09:54:37 but in reality they would have shorter games on average if they just time out all the time 2010-09-11T09:54:45 exactly 2010-09-11T09:54:50 Scrap: once profiles are working again it will say there 2010-09-11T09:55:28 to play the other side, i do think it's annoying to have a lot of your wins be timeouts and errors on your opponents' parts 2010-09-11T09:55:28 I didn't even know time out resulted in dc till it happened during the last comp 2010-09-11T09:55:35 i had always expected it to be a lost game 2010-09-11T09:55:55 jmcarthur: at least allow a few timeouts before kicking them 2010-09-11T09:56:09 mine was the first in hundreds and hundreds of other games 2010-09-11T09:56:39 what's annoying about that? I'll take a win any way my opponent wants to give it to me 2010-09-11T09:57:02 it's not fun and everyone else got that win, so you're no better off 2010-09-11T09:57:08 *** JensT1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T09:57:13 rwa: in the final tournament, sure. but when i'm trying to test my bot against the other bots i want an accurate measurement of my bot's skill against other *working* bots 2010-09-11T09:57:13 profiles renabled. Fast now. 2010-09-11T09:57:21 danielvf: you rock! 2010-09-11T09:57:39 danielvf: if i was female I would happily bear your children 2010-09-11T09:57:42 lol 2010-09-11T09:57:51 just needed some good indexes 2010-09-11T09:58:07 and one evil sql in the tournament manager fixed. 2010-09-11T09:58:15 jmcarthur: yeah I can see that 2010-09-11T09:58:23 so when are you switching official visualiser over to the better one? 2010-09-11T09:58:43 Soon as some other dev comes along and okays it. 2010-09-11T09:58:43 and is the jar thing on the website updated? still seems to take forever to load 2010-09-11T09:58:44 hallelujah 2010-09-11T09:58:53 make it a profile option if nothing else 2010-09-11T09:58:54 awesome 2010-09-11T09:58:57 paging a1k0n? 2010-09-11T09:59:00 or amstan 2010-09-11T09:59:02 or j3camero 2010-09-11T09:59:03 Yeah 2010-09-11T09:59:09 * danielvf off to breakfast 2010-09-11T09:59:10 a1k0n probably not up yet 2010-09-11T09:59:21 hasn't he got a 2 year old kick? 2010-09-11T09:59:31 surely he's awoken at like the crack of dawn 2010-09-11T09:59:59 good pt 2010-09-11T10:00:16 danielvf: thanks 2010-09-11T10:00:37 some bots seem to use a very similar strategy to mine - we get into pretty symmetric stalemates 2010-09-11T10:01:14 rwa: can you post a link? i haven't seen a real stalemate so far i think 2010-09-11T10:01:29 I have sort(closestPlanets.begin(), closestPlanets.end(), this->sortByDistance); where the object which contains this code has a function called sortByDistance I want this sort to use. The function is dependent on variables specific to the instance of the class. 2010-09-11T10:01:36 i've given the patch to use the canvas viz a positive score, but i have reservations since it rules out IE users and i don't know how many IE users we have 2010-09-11T10:02:08 How long does the contest run? 2010-09-11T10:02:08 there were some cool stalemates the other day where both bots were simultaneously sending the same amounts to a planet 2010-09-11T10:02:14 once with 4 planets doing this 2010-09-11T10:02:23 20 november entries close 2010-09-11T10:02:28 jmcarthur: how about detecting it from the request? or even putting up 2 links so one can choose 2010-09-11T10:02:32 still trying to get them to run the final tournament for longer 2010-09-11T10:02:35 oh, wow. That's a long time 2010-09-11T10:02:40 but otherwise a bit over a weekend 2010-09-11T10:02:47 phreeza: yeah, but that's not in the currently proposed patch 2010-09-11T10:03:06 http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284211379|vortex.6|dmj.4 2010-09-11T10:03:09 if the stats are low enough i'm willing to sacrifice them i think, but it just depends 2010-09-11T10:03:29 Is anyone here using the C# package? 2010-09-11T10:03:32 does the game engine merge fleets with the same start time, source and destination yet? 2010-09-11T10:04:05 phreeza: I guess I squeak this one out on ship count 2010-09-11T10:04:43 antimatroid1: i don't think so 2010-09-11T10:04:49 notice that we populate the "same" planets and mostly attack the same targets 2010-09-11T10:04:50 td: couldn't compile mine 2010-09-11T10:04:59 damnit, if they don't change it i'm changing my bot to spam my fleets 2010-09-11T10:05:00 >_<.... great 2010-09-11T10:05:00 * jmcarthur checks to see if we have an issue for that 2010-09-11T10:05:16 rwa: ah but yea really dooes look like a stalemate 2010-09-11T10:05:43 antimatroid1: we have a ticket for 0 fleet size but not for merging fleets 2010-09-11T10:05:50 antimatroid1, the tcpserver engine does 2010-09-11T10:06:09 Scrap: are you using a different package now, or? 2010-09-11T10:06:16 antimatroid1: i'll add one 2010-09-11T10:06:23 td: I use java now :) 2010-09-11T10:06:31 Scrap: c++ is nicer 2010-09-11T10:06:35 taking over an hour to get a rank at the moment 2010-09-11T10:06:35 jmcarthur: awesome 2010-09-11T10:07:00 antimatroid1: if you know any c++ ) 2010-09-11T10:07:09 it's really quite simple 2010-09-11T10:07:12 it's certainly easier than java 2010-09-11T10:07:27 to actually do anything algorithm wise anyway 2010-09-11T10:07:35 phreeza: since dmj is currently #1, I take it as a good sign that my basic idea is sound... 2010-09-11T10:07:57 rwa: don't read too much from current standings 2010-09-11T10:08:40 I love some of the names on the tcp server 2010-09-11T10:08:46 OminousBirthdayCake 2010-09-11T10:08:59 yeah 2010-09-11T10:09:07 probably cousin to ObligatoryShampoo 2010-09-11T10:09:20 I can relate 2010-09-11T10:09:50 antimatroid1: because it's early or for some other reason? 2010-09-11T10:10:29 antimatroid1: issue 112 if you want to track it 2010-09-11T10:10:35 because it's early and people haven't had time to really implement anything yet 2010-09-11T10:10:42 yeah, me either 2010-09-11T10:10:57 Scrap: how are you compiling the java one... javac *.java ? 2010-09-11T10:11:05 jmcarthur: got it, thanks 2010-09-11T10:11:12 td: yes sure 2010-09-11T10:11:19 Not working for me :s 2010-09-11T10:11:25 http://pastebin.com/ziraB8cZ <- my sorting problem :/ 2010-09-11T10:11:35 td: what does it say? 2010-09-11T10:11:36 wtfbbq is pretty funny, too 2010-09-11T10:11:47 not recognized command 2010-09-11T10:12:16 rwa yea 2010-09-11T10:12:18 what timezone does the server reside in? 2010-09-11T10:12:24 canada 2010-09-11T10:12:26 javagamer_Cpp, I can send you my distance sorting functor if you wish 2010-09-11T10:12:32 the canada timezone 2010-09-11T10:12:41 ;) 2010-09-11T10:12:45 :D 2010-09-11T10:12:57 Palmik, I want to get it working w/ the normal sort code, it seems my only problem is getting it to accept my function 2010-09-11T10:12:58 i think the server is running on GMT though 2010-09-11T10:13:00 can you show up the current time somewhere on the site? 2010-09-11T10:13:02 despite its location 2010-09-11T10:13:09 i heard that, anyway 2010-09-11T10:13:20 jmcarthur, I!m using normal sort code :D 2010-09-11T10:13:35 Palmik: wrong nick ;) 2010-09-11T10:13:35 last night it was determined they were running the server on Voyager 2 2010-09-11T10:13:53 i was lazy and just used a priority queue for finding closest neighbours aha 2010-09-11T10:13:57 rwa: oh, so it's just relativistic effects making it appear to go slow 2010-09-11T10:14:06 jmcarthur, sorry :D 2010-09-11T10:14:13 long round trip time, too 2010-09-11T10:14:33 rwa: sure, if you want to state the more obvious explanation :P 2010-09-11T10:15:18 Profiles are starting to work again :D 2010-09-11T10:15:27 starting? 2010-09-11T10:15:33 they are working again :p 2010-09-11T10:15:42 they've been up for about 25 minutes :P 2010-09-11T10:15:57 oh, less than that 2010-09-11T10:16:00 a bit under 20, my bad 2010-09-11T10:16:03 My bot is supposed to play some matches first before I can see that thats working too 2010-09-11T10:16:27 When I uploaded my bot the first time it took only 15 mins to get a match 2010-09-11T10:16:52 Obeleh: currently over an hour and counting for me 2010-09-11T10:16:52 Obeleh: lots of people are uploading their bots, the server is trying to give them all games 2010-09-11T10:16:54 takes time 2010-09-11T10:17:07 I know 2010-09-11T10:17:12 And I understand ;) 2010-09-11T10:18:35 javagamer_Cpp, the problem is, that you have the sort function made in way that it sorts objects, but you need it to take pointers to objects as arguments 2010-09-11T10:20:03 javagamer_Cpp, http://pastebin.com/hetF8Eti might work 2010-09-11T10:20:42 Palmik, wow, I feel kind of good b/c I just tried before I saw the pastebin :) 2010-09-11T10:20:48 but it still doesn't work :/ 2010-09-11T10:21:01 jmcarthur: It doesn't rule out IE users, it falls back to the java applet if canvas is not supported 2010-09-11T10:23:13 danielvf: oh? i didn't see that in the patch 2010-09-11T10:23:26 oh it was already in there? 2010-09-11T10:23:29 Yeah 2010-09-11T10:23:31 maybe that's why 2010-09-11T10:23:34 *** aerique has quit IRC (Quit: ...) 2010-09-11T10:23:37 i should look more closely 2010-09-11T10:23:39 javagamer_Cpp, what does the error look like with the modified code? 2010-09-11T10:23:44 *error 2010-09-11T10:24:55 Palmik, identical as far as I can tell 2010-09-11T10:26:15 danielvf: okay i see. i haven't tested it in IE, but if its already tested than i approve 2010-09-11T10:26:30 test it again, just so we are sure. :D 2010-09-11T10:26:42 Well, I sort like this http://codepad.org/c8ki3lEt and if I was sorting containers of Planet* I would sort like this http://codepad.org/qRltq5oY 2010-09-11T10:26:50 i can't 2010-09-11T10:27:01 no windows, no ie24linux installed 2010-09-11T10:27:07 *ies4linux 2010-09-11T10:27:33 *** Bobng has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T10:27:35 any windows users here? 2010-09-11T10:27:39 yes 2010-09-11T10:28:06 Bobng: http://ai-contest.com/visualizer_canvas.php?game_id=4435964 2010-09-11T10:28:11 Bobng: do that in IE 2010-09-11T10:28:16 Bobng: do you see the java applet? 2010-09-11T10:28:18 ha, i fear haskell bots 2010-09-11T10:28:22 eww IE. one sec 2010-09-11T10:28:35 Palmik, I guess I can go with something like that 2010-09-11T10:28:40 thats one nice visualizer.... 2010-09-11T10:28:42 Palmik, thanks for your help 2010-09-11T10:28:47 Bobng: ha, i just realized you're completely out of context here :) 2010-09-11T10:28:47 works in chrome 2010-09-11T10:28:56 works in IE 2010-09-11T10:29:02 Bobng: we need to make sure that in IE that falls back to the java applet 2010-09-11T10:29:03 javagamer_Cpp, np 2010-09-11T10:29:04 wait 2010-09-11T10:29:05 no 2010-09-11T10:29:23 jmcarthur: it works, but its not very good 2010-09-11T10:29:31 jmcarthur: Why not use http://code.google.com/p/explorercanvas/? 2010-09-11T10:29:36 where can I get runtime info about all suported languages? 2010-09-11T10:29:42 like, what version of python you have etc 2010-09-11T10:29:47 Bobng: as in it's the ugly java applet? yeah we know :( 2010-09-11T10:29:50 especialy for ruby and perl or go 2010-09-11T10:29:58 canvas visualizer is great, but why blue instead of green? it's hard to distinguish from grey neutral planets 2010-09-11T10:30:11 yeah, the canvas is much nicer. But yeah it works in IE jmcarthur 2010-09-11T10:30:16 danielvf: kirkeby brought this up http://code.google.com/p/explorercanvas/ 2010-09-11T10:30:17 kirkeby: Because I've heard it's uber slow 2010-09-11T10:30:18 evgenius: I know colorblind people why disagree with you on that. 2010-09-11T10:30:19 danielvf: have we tried that 2010-09-11T10:30:21 oh 2010-09-11T10:30:24 one small bug though 2010-09-11T10:30:31 danielvf: Have you ever used Java? Nothing is as slow as an applet. 2010-09-11T10:30:40 it finishes but the play button does not appear again if you rewind the simulation 2010-09-11T10:30:52 Bobng: ah that sounds like it's the java applet's fault 2010-09-11T10:30:58 sorry, disregard that 2010-09-11T10:31:04 it just doesn't play when you rewind it. 2010-09-11T10:31:08 ah okay 2010-09-11T10:31:09 kirkeby: I think explorer canvas is about 20x slower 2010-09-11T10:31:10 Bobng: thanks! 2010-09-11T10:31:17 I guess I!m ok if the java applet does not even load :P 2010-09-11T10:31:21 *I'm 2010-09-11T10:31:23 danielvf: we have verification from Bobng that the applet load in IE now at least :) 2010-09-11T10:31:24 Which is okay for drawing something once 2010-09-11T10:31:26 *loads 2010-09-11T10:31:28 Okay 2010-09-11T10:31:40 I'll see if I can make it live 2010-09-11T10:31:44 oh no wait, it does play, but the buttons are messed up. 2010-09-11T10:31:45 danielvf: Oh, well. You're probably right, especially if you've actually tried it :) 2010-09-11T10:31:57 the skip to the start/end buttons are squashed into the corner and only a few pixels wide 2010-09-11T10:32:00 Bobng: the ones on the left and right are cut off largely? they do that in mine too 2010-09-11T10:32:06 yeah ^ 2010-09-11T10:32:10 anybody on the board that submitted in the last few hours? 2010-09-11T10:32:11 Bobng: that's the same situation that we already have publicly though 2010-09-11T10:32:17 Bobng: so this is now worse at least :) 2010-09-11T10:32:20 *no worse 2010-09-11T10:32:42 at least now *most* users won't see that 2010-09-11T10:33:07 Bobng: currently we just have this http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=4435964 for *all* browsers :( 2010-09-11T10:33:26 (that link might suddenly be nicer if danielvf gets it integrated before you click it) 2010-09-11T10:33:29 eww 2010-09-11T10:33:31 yeah 2010-09-11T10:33:48 can I make one comment about the contest? 2010-09-11T10:33:51 or rather about the site 2010-09-11T10:33:55 Bobng: thanks for your help. you accelerated the integration of the improved visualizer :) 2010-09-11T10:34:00 sure, please, any feedback 2010-09-11T10:34:07 going afk again 2010-09-11T10:34:30 well i'm a new user and this contest looks cool, it should focus my python skills into something constructive 2010-09-11T10:34:38 but I can't find any info on the game mechanics 2010-09-11T10:35:00 yeah we need a spec. there are a few informal things hanging around. let me find some stuff for you 2010-09-11T10:35:21 for example I don't know the rate at which planets create extra points 2010-09-11T10:35:39 just stuff like that. its no big deal 2010-09-11T10:36:31 Bobng: this isn't actually a spec of the engine at all, but it can give you some idea of what's happening http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/wiki/PlanetWarsFileFormats 2010-09-11T10:36:42 Bobng: i'll file a ticket to make a specification for the game though 2010-09-11T10:36:48 i think it's important 2010-09-11T10:37:07 Bobng: you can get some idea of the game by checking out Galcon, by the way 2010-09-11T10:37:22 although there are some differences 2010-09-11T10:37:29 just like how the game actually works. I understand it now, but when I first found the site there was no info on how the game actually works - the site seems to focus on how to create a bot and upload it 2010-09-11T10:37:38 yeah 2010-09-11T10:37:40 yeah I had a peek at that, and the video helped a lot 2010-09-11T10:37:47 i agree 100% with you 2010-09-11T10:37:54 mentioned it before, but didn't file a ticket and forgot 2010-09-11T10:38:03 i'll do that now 2010-09-11T10:38:23 i'm going to run some games on *much* bigger maps just for fun 2010-09-11T10:38:35 Planets make ships at their growth rate 2010-09-11T10:38:41 so a 5 planet makes 5 per turn 2010-09-11T10:38:44 alright, thanks. When I get back from work I will bash out a bot and have a play 2010-09-11T10:38:48 yeah he figured it out, but it took a while 2010-09-11T10:38:49 Go for it. 2010-09-11T10:39:08 because so far my algorithm still scales well with number of planets :) probably won't be like that forever 2010-09-11T10:39:37 lol triple j are playing that song from the montake of the guys pretending to kill each other in slow motion 2010-09-11T10:39:45 i can't not think of that video when i hear it 2010-09-11T10:39:49 montage* 2010-09-11T10:40:32 tripple j? 2010-09-11T10:40:38 radio station in australi 2010-09-11T10:40:48 ah :) 2010-09-11T10:41:14 radio station? 2010-09-11T10:41:19 :P 2010-09-11T10:41:28 :)) 2010-09-11T10:41:28 anyone know what includes I can use in MSVC instead of these ? 2010-09-11T10:43:40 quick search game be Winsock2.h 2010-09-11T10:43:48 for sys/socket.h 2010-09-11T10:43:57 *gave me... 2010-09-11T10:44:11 oh, profiles work again 2010-09-11T10:44:13 cool 2010-09-11T10:45:08 I think we should be grateful we even have a website :P 2010-09-11T10:46:32 JensT1: and fast even 2010-09-11T10:46:42 indeed 2010-09-11T10:46:51 antimatroid1: true true 2010-09-11T10:47:00 Server load average is "1.39" 2010-09-11T10:47:09 how much cpu's? 2010-09-11T10:47:10 Not bad for a multi core box 2010-09-11T10:47:19 was 128 when I woke up 2010-09-11T10:48:01 *** ajhager has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T10:48:05 dual P4 2,8gz 2010-09-11T10:49:40 are there any games played currently? I see "Current Rank: N/A. No ranking available" for a long time already 2010-09-11T10:50:57 *** Edgeworth has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2010-09-11T10:51:16 How long is a long time? 2010-09-11T10:52:11 about an hour, but I reuploaded recently 2010-09-11T10:52:25 evgenius: my lat game is from Sep 11 01:19:36 AM 2010-09-11T10:52:46 and one before that was Sep 11 12:35:32 AM 2010-09-11T10:53:09 so 40-60mins wait time is normal 2010-09-11T10:55:54 hey who was it that was talking about trying maps that weren't randomly generated? 2010-09-11T10:56:01 it was a couple days ago i think 2010-09-11T10:56:24 JensT1: that's terrible though 2010-09-11T10:57:00 I'm waiting for more than 2 hours already :) 2010-09-11T10:57:06 jmcarthur: there's over 350 people playing 2010-09-11T10:57:14 no biggie, thanks to tcpserver and such 2010-09-11T10:57:33 and it takes around 7-10sec/game 2010-09-11T10:57:41 and contestants are choosen randomly 2010-09-11T10:57:52 Canvas visualizer is live 2010-09-11T10:57:57 as the default 2010-09-11T10:58:09 JensT1: no excuse. we need more hardware 2010-09-11T10:58:10 danielvf, great :) 2010-09-11T10:58:10 ranked count down to 318 now... 2010-09-11T10:58:17 yay! 2010-09-11T10:58:32 rwa: i still think that may be due to new uploads 2010-09-11T10:58:37 http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=4434927 draw :D 2010-09-11T10:58:48 jmcarthur: yeah, well, I've set up my private version of the site, and competing there with friends 2010-09-11T10:58:52 so it's ok for me 2010-09-11T10:58:55 *** sigh has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-09-11T10:59:11 I try there till It's working ok, then upload to official site 2010-09-11T10:59:19 yep, it's probably because of uploads... maybe remove one from ladder after his new bot played at least 1 game? 2010-09-11T11:00:02 Palmik: yeah bots don't appear until they have played 2010-09-11T11:00:31 canvas visualizer gives a JavaScript exception for me 2010-09-11T11:00:59 what's the rationale behind the canvas vs java visualiser? 2010-09-11T11:01:05 the java visualiser worked way faster for me :p 2010-09-11T11:01:06 and buttons don't work 2010-09-11T11:01:19 evgenius: you mean java? 2010-09-11T11:01:22 evgenius: canvas is javascript 2010-09-11T11:01:31 JensT1: it did? 2010-09-11T11:01:33 that's amazing 2010-09-11T11:01:51 yeah, it only took like 2% cpu 2010-09-11T11:01:51 the canvas one is *drastically* faster and *drastically* nicer than the java one for me 2010-09-11T11:01:59 where the canvas is taking an enitre core 2010-09-11T11:02:05 try using safari or chrome 2010-09-11T11:02:06 weird 2010-09-11T11:02:26 it still takes 100% cpu on chromium, but works faster indeed 2010-09-11T11:02:37 slower in ff 2010-09-11T11:02:39 JensT1: You on old firefox? 2010-09-11T11:02:45 3.6.9 2010-09-11T11:02:57 It's coded to use 100% ish. 2010-09-11T11:03:07 Just does smother animation up to 30fps 2010-09-11T11:03:08 oh, 3.6.8 2010-09-11T11:03:10 ok, updating 2010-09-11T11:03:38 *** evgenius has left #aichallenge 2010-09-11T11:03:42 still, I had it on my desktop as well 2010-09-11T11:03:50 java applet worked very smootly 2010-09-11T11:04:05 it had less frames/sec probably, but that's what it was made like 2010-09-11T11:04:26 Maybe we can code a "use alternate visulizer" button 2010-09-11T11:04:31 *** jmreardon has quit IRC (Quit: jmreardon) 2010-09-11T11:04:37 That remembers your choice. 2010-09-11T11:06:14 well, it works , like 0.7 frames/sec 2010-09-11T11:06:26 but takes up all my cpu 2010-09-11T11:06:32 in firefox 2010-09-11T11:07:09 the java one does like 2 frames per sec. somewhere the animation code was neutered 2010-09-11T11:07:16 *** jmreardon has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T11:07:22 note that it is not being maintained or looked at anymore 2010-09-11T11:07:57 albert is working on a c++ version of the game engine, i think he plans to make it public, too 2010-09-11T11:09:04 i'm pretty happy with my new copy 2010-09-11T11:09:09 but i ain't sharing sorry 2010-09-11T11:09:22 hehe 2010-09-11T11:09:28 yours c++ too? 2010-09-11T11:09:31 yep 2010-09-11T11:09:45 mine is sort of a completely rewritten old one 2010-09-11T11:09:56 phreeza, whole engine or just the data structures from PlanetWars.cc? 2010-09-11T11:10:18 *** vikhyat has quit IRC (Read error: No route to host) 2010-09-11T11:10:19 Palmik: engine works but tossing around strings 2010-09-11T11:10:22 Palmik the whole deal i think, for internal simulations 2010-09-11T11:11:08 nice 2010-09-11T11:12:55 In Java what is the equivalent of Map that can hold duplicate keys? 2010-09-11T11:14:24 MultiMap ? 2010-09-11T11:15:01 not sure if there is one that allows that 2010-09-11T11:16:00 Or some other structure if there is one 2010-09-11T11:17:49 *** Mathnerd314 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T11:19:05 *** vikhyat has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T11:20:26 lol, i can see unicorns 2010-09-11T11:20:32 triple j is now playing robot unicorn attack song aha 2010-09-11T11:20:55 that one is great, even more with the videoclip :P 2010-09-11T11:21:13 *** hornairs has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-09-11T11:21:17 *** FlagCapper has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-11T11:22:22 Could someone help me with compiling MyBot? 2010-09-11T11:23:53 Basically all i'm getting is 'javac' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file. 2010-09-11T11:24:07 *** rwa has quit IRC (Quit: rwa) 2010-09-11T11:24:23 td, you need to install the java SDK 2010-09-11T11:24:28 I have.. 2010-09-11T11:24:29 in the cmd type something similar to : 2010-09-11T11:25:01 set path=%path%'C:\program files\java\jdk\bin 2010-09-11T11:25:10 C:\"Program Files"\Java\"jdk1.6.0_21"\bin\javac *.java 2010-09-11T11:25:43 or just get eclipse and compile in the ide 2010-09-11T11:26:23 *** rwa has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T11:26:47 *** cobracom has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-11T11:27:11 earlier I was right clicking MyBot, selecting open with and clicking on javac in the java folder 2010-09-11T11:27:13 *** Astery has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T11:27:26 creative 2010-09-11T11:27:29 that worked the first time i did it, but wouldn't re-compile it, if that makes sense 2010-09-11T11:28:14 *** PurplePanda has left #aichallenge 2010-09-11T11:28:30 *** Scrap has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-11T11:28:33 *** ihodes has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T11:29:19 wondering if anyone can help me with the registration: i signed up last night; still no email, nothing in the junk mail, and i can't sign up (username i registered is in use – so i'm assuming my registration went through) or sign in 2010-09-11T11:30:04 ihodes: there were problems yesterday. I think they are going to delete all registrations that have not been confirmed 2010-09-11T11:30:11 so that you can reregister 2010-09-11T11:30:15 ah alright - thanks for the update :) 2010-09-11T11:30:17 danielvf: are there games being played atm? 2010-09-11T11:30:25 ihodes: oh a familiar name :) 2010-09-11T11:30:33 hey phreeza! 2010-09-11T11:30:39 since everybody's I know has been waiting for over an hour 2010-09-11T11:30:48 JensT1: 5 games 2010-09-11T11:30:52 hi! 2010-09-11T11:30:55 concurent? 2010-09-11T11:31:11 yes 2010-09-11T11:31:16 danielvf: on same server, or are you using more machines? 2010-09-11T11:31:20 *** l4u has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T11:31:29 phreeza: when i finally got around to reading through the code, the buzz on github had died down. i still think it's an awesome idea…would make for a great ai-contest 2010-09-11T11:31:31 since the jails use ssh anyway 2010-09-11T11:31:45 So 6 minutes per game, divided by 5, times 400 players 2010-09-11T11:31:59 6minutes/game :o 2010-09-11T11:32:08 MAx 2010-09-11T11:32:18 ihodes: yea thats what i was thinking... I got sidetracked myself. Thinking of using the tournament server from here for cells though. 2010-09-11T11:32:19 oh yeah :) 2010-09-11T11:32:20 200 turns at 2 seconds per turn 2010-09-11T11:32:35 but if I run them they don't seem to take more then 10secs 2010-09-11T11:33:05 phreeza: i was thinking the same thing haha. i also was thinking about taking the stdin/stdout model so any language could be used to make cell-bots 2010-09-11T11:33:15 using* not taking haha 2010-09-11T11:33:37 danielvf: oh, could be more 2010-09-11T11:33:42 since players are choosen randomly? 2010-09-11T11:33:44 ihodes: thats tricky though, because a central point in cells is that there isn't a central controller 2010-09-11T11:33:52 yes 2010-09-11T11:33:56 you could just have a bad run and not get picked for 5hours 2010-09-11T11:33:59 ok,cool :) 2010-09-11T11:34:07 nice job 2010-09-11T11:34:10 it will get better 2010-09-11T11:34:16 patience young grasshopper 2010-09-11T11:34:36 oh wow, turns out there was a mistake in my coding, causing it to not compile correctly and not display any sort of error message... =< 2010-09-11T11:34:37 phreeza: but a central "gamemaster" process could start both bots and monitor them, making sure they're doing legal things, and handle the visualization 2010-09-11T11:35:07 I've uploaded my code 3 hours ago. I really hope to see some matches :( 2010-09-11T11:35:17 ihodes: Yeah, that's a good idea 2010-09-11T11:35:40 *** gilaniali has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T11:36:05 Hello 2010-09-11T11:36:06 What are the possible maximum and minimum values for Distance, GrowthRate and total_trip_length? 2010-09-11T11:36:39 distance 0-sqrt(1000^2*1000^2) 2010-09-11T11:36:43 growthrate 0-5 2010-09-11T11:36:55 total trip length about the same as distance I think? 2010-09-11T11:37:11 max growth of 5 is boring 2010-09-11T11:37:48 hardly matters 2010-09-11T11:38:08 with a too high rate it gets a boring game of 'highest growth rate wins' 2010-09-11T11:38:22 yeah, I go for planets with 0 growthrate, they are cool 2010-09-11T11:38:30 ehmz 2010-09-11T11:38:31 there are Palmik 2010-09-11T11:38:36 lol 2010-09-11T11:39:00 growthrate propertional of the force present 2010-09-11T11:39:05 aren't they? :P 2010-09-11T11:39:05 in my random created maps I have a map with a neutral planet growthrate of 0 and 180troops in the middle 2010-09-11T11:39:14 it gets ignored by all bots :( 2010-09-11T11:39:27 inverse proportional would be somethign too 2010-09-11T11:39:47 bartwe: that would make things even harder yeah 2010-09-11T11:39:55 altought, just giving less degrees of freedom 2010-09-11T11:39:59 for an optimal solution 2010-09-11T11:40:12 with inverse growth 2010-09-11T11:40:45 anything that increases the number of possible nash equilibriums that exclude eachother ... 2010-09-11T11:40:47 *** Obeleh has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-11T11:40:52 har 2010-09-11T11:40:58 hmm, would involve continuesly sending all troops from one planet to the other :p 2010-09-11T11:41:29 so loads of troops in flight 2010-09-11T11:41:36 JensT1: so the lower left corner has coordinates of 0,0 and the top far right corner is 1000,1000 2010-09-11T11:41:55 *** l4u has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2010-09-11T11:42:05 after alteast a kline of code, i have yet to start at a bot ai itself ... 2010-09-11T11:42:47 gilaniali: no, I think I might be wrong there 2010-09-11T11:43:01 hold on, I'll check 2010-09-11T11:43:09 JensT1: Where did you find the value for growth rate of 0-5 2010-09-11T11:43:12 JensT1: k, thanks 2010-09-11T11:43:31 *** mega1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T11:43:37 *** xenon_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T11:44:35 gilaniali: from the map_generator.py file 2010-09-11T11:44:39 in the official source code 2010-09-11T11:44:44 for the rank the use random.randint(0, 5) 2010-09-11T11:45:09 are bros that go for planets with 0 growth more "authentic"? 2010-09-11T11:46:42 rankings <10> 2010-09-11T11:46:46 *** xenon_ has left #aichallenge 2010-09-11T11:46:52 gilaniali: the maps don't get a implicit size, they just are big enought to fit in every planet 2010-09-11T11:46:56 @rankings 2010-09-11T11:46:57 jmcarthur: Top 10 players: dmj111(2860), a1k0n(2854), albert(2800), seigen(2766), danielvf(2709), drewrobb(2701), Kavish(2676), cheese_bot(2652), sighbot(2652), zaphus(2595) 2010-09-11T11:47:11 and planet coordinates come from '(random.random() * 2.0 - 1.0) * 12' 2010-09-11T11:47:55 which translates to min-max -12 to 12 2010-09-11T11:48:03 waitaminute 2010-09-11T11:48:11 what is the range of random.random()? 2010-09-11T11:48:11 phreeza, definitely, go for it 2010-09-11T11:48:14 phreeza: unless they have a small occupation force (<20, from a random guess) they're pretty much useless 2010-09-11T11:48:19 0-1 I think 2010-09-11T11:48:27 JensT1: I have downloaded the python starter package, but i cant seem to find the map_generator.py file. 2010-09-11T11:48:28 *** danielvf has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-09-11T11:48:43 why double it and subtract 1 then? 2010-09-11T11:48:50 *** danielvf has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T11:48:52 gilaniali: it's not in there 2010-09-11T11:49:08 actually, i guess that's not equivalent 2010-09-11T11:49:21 with * 2 - 1 it can result in -1 2010-09-11T11:49:26 right 2010-09-11T11:49:29 i was mixed up 2010-09-11T11:49:39 gilaniali: it's in here 2010-09-11T11:49:40 http://www.google.com/codesearch/p?hl=en#x1_S7f08B_U/trunk/planet_wars/backend/map_generator.py&q=map%20generator%20package:http://ai-contest\.googlecode\.com&sa=N&cd=1&ct=rc 2010-09-11T11:49:56 i was looking at the upp bound but not the lower 2010-09-11T11:49:57 it's -12 to 12 2010-09-11T11:49:58 *upper 2010-09-11T11:49:59 so that means the longest distance is 34 2010-09-11T11:50:13 that's pretty long, actually 2010-09-11T11:51:02 > 200 `divMod` 34 2010-09-11T11:51:08 dang, i forgot lambdabot was gone 2010-09-11T11:51:19 jmcarthur: 24, not 34 2010-09-11T11:51:20 (5,30) 2010-09-11T11:51:21 eh? 2010-09-11T11:51:24 ah 2010-09-11T11:51:25 *** Umsturz has quit IRC (Quit: Umsturz) 2010-09-11T11:51:29 (8,8) 2010-09-11T11:51:39 Mathnerd314: no, 34 2010-09-11T11:51:44 Mathnerd314: 34 2010-09-11T11:51:47 lol 2010-09-11T11:51:52 okay then ignore my second result 2010-09-11T11:51:52 argh, why? 2010-09-11T11:51:58 math.sqrt(24**2 + 24**2) 2010-09-11T11:52:45 then why do they call it *radius*? :p 2010-09-11T11:52:51 down left to upper right 2010-09-11T11:52:53 who calls it radius? 2010-09-11T11:52:57 lol 2010-09-11T11:53:09 Mathnerd314: the code does 2010-09-11T11:53:14 is there a way to detect the destination of enemy ships? 2010-09-11T11:53:18 depends on what distance function you choose 2010-09-11T11:53:20 nice 2010-09-11T11:53:35 but ingame it's the euclidian distance 2010-09-11T11:53:35 td: yes 2010-09-11T11:53:45 td, yes... in starters it's something like fleetObject.destinationPlanet 2010-09-11T11:53:48 the creator can use a taximetric if it chooses to :p 2010-09-11T11:54:06 i was thinking that circular maps might be nice, as opposed to rectangular 2010-09-11T11:54:06 ok.. thanks 2010-09-11T11:54:27 getting a bit confused with all this stuff... so a "fleet" is the number when it's travelling towards a planet, right? 2010-09-11T11:54:41 yeah 2010-09-11T11:54:49 the number is the number of ships in the fleet 2010-09-11T11:54:53 *** l4u has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T11:55:22 is j3camero around? 2010-09-11T11:55:55 is everything working today? 2010-09-11T11:56:10 anyway, the max possible distance in a single flight is 34, so a single ship would have time to make that trip 5 times (one way) and then have 30 turns left. that's not many 2010-09-11T11:56:27 Cyndre: "everything" is a strong word 2010-09-11T11:56:37 many things are working today that were not working yesterday though :) 2010-09-11T11:56:42 will my new code fight battles if I am patient enough 2010-09-11T11:56:47 yes 2010-09-11T11:56:50 cool 2010-09-11T11:56:54 but you have to be *very* patient 2010-09-11T11:56:57 anyone make a python tcp server client yet 2010-09-11T11:57:06 i don't think so 2010-09-11T11:57:11 but somebody would kill for one i think 2010-09-11T11:57:16 i forget who that was 2010-09-11T11:57:17 enough is weak word :D 2010-09-11T11:57:18 I would 2010-09-11T11:57:19 lmao 2010-09-11T11:57:22 Just want to check my reading of engine.py: In a given round, the 1s durations of computation allowed to both players occur concurrently based on the same board state, correct? It's not player1 moves, then player2 moves in response, etc... 2010-09-11T11:57:23 jmcarthur: a planet has radius of at least 1 I think, so it could make the trip 6 times? 2010-09-11T11:57:38 JensT1: the radius of the planet matters? 2010-09-11T11:57:38 oh, no, it's 0 2010-09-11T11:57:42 i thought it was center to center 2010-09-11T11:57:44 for the growthrate 2010-09-11T11:58:04 yeah, but not for travel time 2010-09-11T11:58:37 jmcarthur: yeah, but like on turn 0 you already see fleets at distance 0 of the planet 2010-09-11T11:58:48 distance1 from the planet* 2010-09-11T11:58:54 umm 2010-09-11T11:59:17 there shouldn't be any fleets on the move on turn 0 should there be? 2010-09-11T12:00:01 oh yes, the old visualiser starts at turn 1 2010-09-11T12:00:07 right 2010-09-11T12:00:32 coventry`: correct 2010-09-11T12:00:36 coventry`: it's simultaneous play 2010-09-11T12:00:41 *** Astery has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-11T12:01:09 coventry`: makes it more fun :) 2010-09-11T12:01:17 afk 2010-09-11T12:01:22 is 200 step the guaranteed horizon on the number of steps ? 2010-09-11T12:01:34 bartwe: not guaranteed yet, but i'm pushing for a fixed number 2010-09-11T12:01:41 it has a big influence on possible endgame tactics 2010-09-11T12:01:42 bartwe: but it can change for now 2010-09-11T12:01:44 i know 2010-09-11T12:01:45 jmcarthur: thanks. 2010-09-11T12:01:49 it influences mine critically 2010-09-11T12:02:02 I need to take distance into account 2010-09-11T12:02:07 jmcarthur: ok, i'll keep a lookout for that if it gets fixed. 2010-09-11T12:02:10 bartwe: i have asked for now that we at least make changes in turn count very public 2010-09-11T12:02:29 bartwe: and hopefully we can have it fixed for the last month or so so we don't have to worry about it at all 2010-09-11T12:02:30 Im patiently waiting for a game - can anyone force it 2010-09-11T12:02:56 Cyndre: you're not waiting all that patiently if you are wanting to force it :P 2010-09-11T12:03:18 jmcarthur: oh yes, just seein if anyone else can give it a shove in the right direction 2010-09-11T12:03:21 Cyndre: some people have waited for over an hour, btw 2010-09-11T12:03:31 jmcarthur ewwww 2010-09-11T12:03:39 but it's still going. it's not hung or anything 2010-09-11T12:03:53 Cyndre: in the meantime, the tcp server is your friend :) 2010-09-11T12:03:55 even for 3 hours and counting :P 2010-09-11T12:04:00 Palmik: really?! 2010-09-11T12:04:03 yes 2010-09-11T12:04:05 lmao 2010-09-11T12:04:06 dang 2010-09-11T12:04:23 can someone please make a python one or a windows exe 2010-09-11T12:04:32 okay i'm going to put this channel in another workspace so i can get some work on my bot done 2010-09-11T12:04:41 Cyndre: you can do it! :D 2010-09-11T12:04:45 lol, go for it jmcarthur 2010-09-11T12:05:01 jmcarthur: :( 2010-09-11T12:05:13 *** McLeopold has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T12:05:41 is there any guide on how to get the tcp.c running on a linux machine? 2010-09-11T12:06:21 Cyndre: its in the first few lines of comments in the file itself 2010-09-11T12:06:34 *** laetitia has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T12:06:41 k 2010-09-11T12:06:52 Cyndre: its very easy 2010-09-11T12:06:57 you need gcc obviously 2010-09-11T12:07:05 should already have it 2010-09-11T12:08:08 beyond simple 2010-09-11T12:08:37 so stupid sometimes - instead of clicking and reading I just assumed it was "hard" should have the guide about how easy it is on the main page 2010-09-11T12:11:46 a1k0n beat me down 2010-09-11T12:12:30 dangit, i'm thinking of writing out that engine spec just so i know that i'm simulating it correctly after peer review 2010-09-11T12:13:35 *** cobracom has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T12:13:37 running my bot on tcp server now 2010-09-11T12:13:55 as Cyndre? 2010-09-11T12:14:00 yea 2010-09-11T12:14:27 how long for rankings and such to get updated so I can watch my games? 2010-09-11T12:14:31 *** gefunkt has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T12:14:39 Cyndre: it should be a minute 2010-09-11T12:14:50 cool 2010-09-11T12:15:12 need to take distance in to account 2010-09-11T12:17:12 hehe theres a bot called deepblue now :D 2010-09-11T12:18:22 my bot blows 2010-09-11T12:18:37 http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284221320|FlagCapper|Cyndre 2010-09-11T12:19:34 that is weird, I was informed that I'm sending invalid orders, so i went and added few more conditions to figure what is causing it, now I have this and still am sending invalid orders :D http://codepad.org/oXP8I47N (that is the only place where I issue orders) 2010-09-11T12:19:50 Cyndre, so does mine, do not worry :P 2010-09-11T12:20:06 *** sinan has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T12:20:08 is there any actual tutorial on how to get started with a language other than java? -.- 2010-09-11T12:20:35 Plamik: I created http://codepad.org/d2mBKLl8 2010-09-11T12:20:39 guys, i've uploaded my code about 1 hour ago, my rank is still "N/A". I also didn't get the email confirming the compilation was ok. Is this normal? 2010-09-11T12:21:26 I think it's the same, only thing that is different is launching your bot, where you do not use "java ./MyBot" but "python ./MyBot" or "./MyBot" depending on the language 2010-09-11T12:21:49 *** rwallace has left #aichallenge 2010-09-11T12:22:16 that was intended for td 2010-09-11T12:22:29 Cyndre, that is basically what I have in my conditions... weird 2010-09-11T12:23:19 you might be sending 0 or negative ships 2010-09-11T12:23:25 i'm trying to use C#, as it's the only programming language i've had experience writing with, but I know nothing about how to compile it and get some visual results.. ;( 2010-09-11T12:24:00 Cyndre, I thoight about that as well, but that is not the case 2010-09-11T12:24:17 *thought 2010-09-11T12:24:20 Palmik: Have you modified the PlanetWars machinery? One way that could happen is if your picture of the current board is out of sync with the engine's. 2010-09-11T12:24:55 *** gefunkt__ has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T12:25:20 *** danielvf has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-09-11T12:25:21 coventry`, not in a way that could cause this (e.g. I just renamed few methods) 2010-09-11T12:25:43 are you leaving 1 ship on your home planet 2010-09-11T12:25:49 but I definitely f*cked up somewhere, that is for sure :P 2010-09-11T12:25:55 *** danielvf has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T12:26:02 Cyndre, yep, I have shipsToSend < attackingPlanet.shipsCount() 2010-09-11T12:26:04 it looks like if source.planet.numships = 1 and target.planet.numships = 0 you will dispatch your only ship 2010-09-11T12:26:59 lol... I just noticed something... 2010-09-11T12:27:09 have to verify it first 2010-09-11T12:28:03 * ulope suddenly has all sorts of new ides for his bot after 14 hours of uninterrupted sleep 2010-09-11T12:28:15 *** gefunkt has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-11T12:28:15 *** gefunkt__ is now known as gefunkt 2010-09-11T12:28:26 lmao 2010-09-11T12:30:24 *** Scrap has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T12:30:56 *** sinan is now known as staii 2010-09-11T12:31:00 *** staii is now known as staiii 2010-09-11T12:31:03 *** Janzert has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T12:31:25 My bot does not get rated however it was submitted long ago: Sep 11th 09:37:42 Why is thatÉ 2010-09-11T12:31:41 *** pierce_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T12:31:49 *** syntaxglitch has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T12:31:50 mine took 3 hours to compile last night and still hasnt played a game 2010-09-11T12:31:53 I'm not rated as well and I submitted Sep 11th 07:48:14 :) 2010-09-11T12:32:05 I suggest using tcp server http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/ or running tests locally 2010-09-11T12:32:06 It was compiled instantly though 2010-09-11T12:32:22 whoever set up benzedrine, thank you 2010-09-11T12:32:48 it looks like no games have been played after approximately 1am or 2am last night 2010-09-11T12:33:26 *** JoeCroqueta has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-11T12:33:30 what's the IP and port of the TCP server? 2010-09-11T12:33:37 that would be dhartmei 2010-09-11T12:33:39 staiii, it's in the comments 2010-09-11T12:33:50 take a look at http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/ 2010-09-11T12:33:50 Palmik: thx 2010-09-11T12:33:53 Scrap: unless it got fixed in the meantime, the scheduler is just randomly picking bots and running one match at a time (that another issue under discussion) so with this many bots its taking a long time 2010-09-11T12:34:46 *** danielvf_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T12:34:53 *** danielvf has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-09-11T12:34:53 *** danielvf_ is now known as danielvf 2010-09-11T12:35:31 * syntaxglitch still can't activate his account :( 2010-09-11T12:37:13 *** danielvf has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-09-11T12:37:23 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T12:37:24 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2010-09-11T12:37:30 *** danielvf has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T12:38:08 *** gilaniali has quit IRC (Quit: gilaniali) 2010-09-11T12:39:17 *** RobinB has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T12:39:20 *** gilaniali has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T12:39:20 hi 2010-09-11T12:39:27 amstan, did anyone ever nuke the unactivated accounts? I tried to sign up again and it still says the username is taken :( 2010-09-11T12:39:32 RobinB: hello ! 2010-09-11T12:39:37 JensT1: is the growth rate 2010-09-11T12:39:52 *** jaspervdj has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T12:39:58 Using the visualizer to find it, the last game played appears to be 4436183 between charles and alex457 and was at 3:33AM. Also the last several games were 1 move draws. So it does seem the games are not being played right now. 2010-09-11T12:41:12 oh boy, i have a lot of debugging to do now 2010-09-11T12:41:22 i just went through and wrote some horrible functions 2010-09-11T12:42:53 *** AJC has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T12:44:56 contestbot: seen j3camero 2010-09-11T12:44:56 amstan: j3camero was last seen in #aichallenge 12 hours, 12 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: hehe 2010-09-11T12:45:01 I built my entire bot around grabbing the best growth rate planets, but turns are far more important - off to go rip it apart 2010-09-11T12:45:09 syntaxglitch: that's a no 2010-09-11T12:45:21 amstan, ah well 2010-09-11T12:45:33 it's not like I even have a bot ready yet 2010-09-11T12:45:44 syntaxglitch: i think i could activate it manually 2010-09-11T12:46:12 that'd be awesome as well, username is camccann 2010-09-11T12:48:04 syntaxglitch: k.. try logging in 2010-09-11T12:48:17 Cyndre: growth is constant :P 2010-09-11T12:48:29 *** danielvf has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-09-11T12:48:38 *** danielvf has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T12:48:48 syntaxglitch: hmm.. i don't think that did it 2010-09-11T12:48:49 not when you need to start over 2010-09-11T12:48:56 amstan, yeah, doesn't seem to work 2010-09-11T12:49:07 syntaxglitch: yeah.. i changed you from not a ... 2010-09-11T12:49:08 nvm 2010-09-11T12:49:12 activated field, set it to 1 2010-09-11T12:49:23 syntaxglitch: try now 2010-09-11T12:49:35 syntaxglitch: you just login, there will be no email 2010-09-11T12:49:35 it worked! :D 2010-09-11T12:50:20 Janzert: dang that sucks 2010-09-11T12:50:45 amstan, speaking of email, the address I used forwards to gmail, dunno if that's related to why I never got the original confirmation 2010-09-11T12:50:52 danielvf: Using the visualizer to find it, the last game played appears to be 4436183 between charles and alex457 and was at 3:33AM. Also the last several games were 1 move draws. So it does seem the games are not being played right now. 2010-09-11T12:51:02 syntaxglitch: check the spam folder 2010-09-11T12:51:07 *** staiii has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2010-09-11T12:51:10 jmcarthur: Okay 2010-09-11T12:51:12 amstan, first thing I did :P 2010-09-11T12:51:13 Checking into it 2010-09-11T12:51:14 *** Scrap has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-11T12:51:33 syntaxglitch: oh.. when did you try making an account? 2010-09-11T12:51:49 syntaxglitch: if it was more than 22 hours ago, you wouldn't of recieved it 2010-09-11T12:51:51 amstan, yesterday, maybe an hour or so after the SMTP errors were fixed 2010-09-11T12:52:13 syntaxglitch: dang i can't believe you still aren't in 2010-09-11T12:52:14 *** rwa has quit IRC (Quit: rwa) 2010-09-11T12:52:21 jmcarthur, I am now 2010-09-11T12:52:24 oh okay 2010-09-11T12:52:26 amstan activated my account manually 2010-09-11T12:52:33 well good 2010-09-11T12:52:46 Is anyone here using C# ? 2010-09-11T12:53:09 *** staiii has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T12:53:10 yeah, props to amstan and everyone else running this 2010-09-11T12:53:18 hope they can get through without having a nervous breakdown 2010-09-11T12:54:02 how can i visualize the output from the tcpserver without having to code a visualizer myself? :) 2010-09-11T12:55:12 staiii, pipe it in to the Java visualizer in the starter kits? 2010-09-11T12:55:25 staiii: the games are visualized on the tcpserver 2010-09-11T12:55:32 syntaxglitch: it doesn't give the final output with the ton of numbers. 2010-09-11T12:55:35 Mathnerd314: ah! thanks :) 2010-09-11T12:57:22 *** laetitia has left #aichallenge 2010-09-11T12:58:35 *** AJC has left #aichallenge 2010-09-11T12:58:51 staiii, and you can even use canvas visualiser (the one the one used on benzedrine and now even on the offical page) locally as well 2010-09-11T12:59:09 It would be nice to have the canvas visualiser for local games. How hard would it be to modify it for that purpose? Which part of the code specifies the input stream? 2010-09-11T12:59:16 It appears that the server has been busy playing games, but the results have not been being written to the DB. 2010-09-11T12:59:24 Palmik: i'll look into the source code, thanks :) 2010-09-11T12:59:31 coventry: http://github.com/DanielVF/Planet-Wars-Canvas-Visualizer 2010-09-11T12:59:33 *** s_denchev has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-11T12:59:38 danielvf: "Does /dev/null support sharding?" 2010-09-11T12:59:42 coventry`, it's already done :) 2010-09-11T12:59:48 It's webscale 2010-09-11T12:59:52 lol 2010-09-11T12:59:53 Thanks, danielvf, Palmik. 2010-09-11T13:00:36 amstan: any chance i might get a confirmation email? anything i can do? 2010-09-11T13:01:43 *** JensT1 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2010-09-11T13:03:18 danielvf: I am here for a few minutes. I will be able to put in a good number of hours this evening. 2010-09-11T13:03:25 j3camero: Okay 2010-09-11T13:03:39 j3camero: You see notes from earlier in the day? 2010-09-11T13:03:44 danielvf: I will probably be starting at around 4 PM EST. 2010-09-11T13:03:44 *my notes 2010-09-11T13:03:54 *** adrian3 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T13:04:01 danielvf: yep I saw the notes on the mailing list. Very good stuff. I am impressed. 2010-09-11T13:04:36 It was just pointed out to me that there were no new games going onto the site 2010-09-11T13:05:13 I tried killing the existing game managers, and letting them restart. 2010-09-11T13:05:15 danielvf: hehe that is a problem. I can debug that tonight by running the touranment manager (TM) manually. 2010-09-11T13:05:29 However, they are still not going. 2010-09-11T13:05:30 Okay 2010-09-11T13:05:44 Alright. I will take down the backend for now. 2010-09-11T13:05:51 *** hornairs has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T13:06:05 last game but one was timestamped '2010-09-11 01:42:32' 2010-09-11T13:06:18 j3camero: you just commenting out the cron on that/ 2010-09-11T13:06:28 j3camero: we have to talk 2010-09-11T13:06:29 I just went into contest's crontab and disabled the TM and the ranking updater. I will start running them manually later to see if I can see what the problem is. 2010-09-11T13:07:02 Okay 2010-09-11T13:07:23 danielvf: did you see how the backend works? It is all just cron jobs that restart themselves every few minutes, then go to sleep after a time. 2010-09-11T13:07:42 j3camero: I've not dived into them yet 2010-09-11T13:08:04 danielvf: that's fine, as long as you know how to start/stop the backend. You just comment out the cron jobs. 2010-09-11T13:08:34 imma add a note to the top of the leaderboard to let people know what's going on.\ 2010-09-11T13:08:38 *** danielvf has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-09-11T13:08:45 *** danielvf has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T13:09:11 (wireless router restart) 2010-09-11T13:10:34 *** yellowseed has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T13:11:41 oh no, i just uploaded a new bot and the games aren't running? 2010-09-11T13:11:49 *** hornairs is now known as airhorns 2010-09-11T13:11:52 j3camero: can I restart kvm? 2010-09-11T13:12:17 i have a couple db schema changes in mind that might help immensely; i'm gonna start testing 2010-09-11T13:12:33 a1k0n: oh? 2010-09-11T13:12:45 primarily switching a couple tables to innodb and changing the indexes 2010-09-11T13:13:38 danielvf: I think a1k0n is referring to his own local copy of the contest, right? If the changes go well on a1k0n's end then we can try to make them on the live server if they make sense. 2010-09-11T13:13:46 correct 2010-09-11T13:13:53 danielvf: what are we using kvm for? 2010-09-11T13:13:57 my own local copy of the contest that i haven't set up yet 2010-09-11T13:13:59 a1k0n: http://dpaste.com/241983/ 2010-09-11T13:14:10 a1k0n: Email I sent to dev's this morning 2010-09-11T13:14:23 j3camero: how are the vm's run? 2010-09-11T13:14:25 a1k0n are you on the dev mailing list yet? 2010-09-11T13:14:28 oh awesome, you got the games indexes 2010-09-11T13:14:38 the rankings table could use a similar set of indexes 2010-09-11T13:14:43 well just one index really 2010-09-11T13:14:55 a1k0n: on? 2010-09-11T13:15:19 KEY `submission_id` (`submission_id`) 2010-09-11T13:15:22 rankings has separate keys for leaderboard_id and submission_id 2010-09-11T13:15:27 it's always looking them up jointly 2010-09-11T13:15:33 as far as i can tell anyway 2010-09-11T13:15:36 danielvf: we are not using the VM-based sandboxing anymore. All the untrusted code is run as jailuser1, jailuser2, jailuser3, etc... These users are created by the script planet_wars/backend/create_jail_users.py and have very few priviledges. 2010-09-11T13:15:50 we could drop all these individual keys 2010-09-11T13:16:07 j3camero: Ah. 2010-09-11T13:16:13 *** dolphin278 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T13:16:14 j3camero: meaning you're not using qemu? meaning system calls like fork are allowed? 2010-09-11T13:16:25 or are you using the thing that traps syscalls 2010-09-11T13:16:57 strace or ptrace? 2010-09-11T13:17:02 *** staiii has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-09-11T13:17:03 yeah ptrace 2010-09-11T13:17:06 *** mega1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-09-11T13:17:08 a1k0n: you probably can do fork right now. But the user that's running your4 code has a very low process limit. After a short while, it will stop giving you new processes. 2010-09-11T13:17:23 hmm 2010-09-11T13:17:31 ah, so you're using limit 2010-09-11T13:17:39 weren't you using ptrace last time? 2010-09-11T13:17:44 so i guess i should just close that kvm ticket i made? 2010-09-11T13:18:01 ptrace and systrace are not being used. The contestants' code is just running on bare metal as a user with very few privileges. Low memory limit, low process limit, no internet access, limited file system access, etc. 2010-09-11T13:18:13 eek 2010-09-11T13:18:21 It's scary I know. 2010-09-11T13:18:26 i would be hesitant about running arbitrary binaries too then 2010-09-11T13:18:32 Believe it or not, it seems to catch most of the ugly things people can do. 2010-09-11T13:18:35 yeah 2010-09-11T13:18:49 but.... my last job was in bare metal security, and that sounds no good 2010-09-11T13:19:01 it can open sockets then too 2010-09-11T13:19:02 It seems fairly resistant to forkbombing, deleting all the files, calling home, etc. 2010-09-11T13:19:18 or does the jail have an internal ip 2010-09-11T13:19:32 j3camero: are you using chroot? 2010-09-11T13:20:06 jmcarthur: security is something we have really struggled with. There is really no good way to sandbox untrusted code on a Linux box... VMs would have been great if qemu didn't suck so much. If someone can get it working for sandboxing propramatically, you would be a god. 2010-09-11T13:20:15 ulope: no chroot. 2010-09-11T13:20:31 isn't the ptrace solution pretty much ideal? 2010-09-11T13:20:36 ptrace would work 2010-09-11T13:20:36 I will be the first to admit that we are shaky on security this time around. 2010-09-11T13:20:44 kind of slows things down slightly, but not as much as qemu 2010-09-11T13:20:55 On the wiki I wrote an article on why we abandoned ptrace/systrace. 2010-09-11T13:20:58 j3camero: waht were your main paint points with qemu? 2010-09-11T13:21:07 if we were using ptrace i would be confidence running arbitrary binaries. if i had known that we weren't i wouldn't have been pushing it 2010-09-11T13:21:12 okay i'll read it 2010-09-11T13:21:43 There are some deep issues with security code with ptrace. Namely, it completely breaks Java. That's why Java sucked last time. 2010-09-11T13:22:06 it wouldn't break if we could just limit according to cpu time... :\ 2010-09-11T13:22:23 you use physical servers for contest, or some cloud nodes? 2010-09-11T13:22:33 just one server, dolphin278 2010-09-11T13:22:34 because I have quite a few production servers running on qemu/kvm with no major problems 2010-09-11T13:22:48 ahhh 2010-09-11T13:22:49 ulope: kvm being the key there 2010-09-11T13:22:51 ouch 2010-09-11T13:22:58 ulope: i think j3camero was trying it without kvm 2010-09-11T13:23:18 jmcarthur: ahh... yeah i can see how that would suck indeed 2010-09-11T13:23:24 if we could use another machine we could try bsd jails. they are very secure 2010-09-11T13:23:31 but then that would be changing the build target and everything 2010-09-11T13:23:37 ulope: the model with qemu was to have a saved VM image. When we want to run a bot, we kick off the VM from that saved state (takes a few ms at most), use scp to send the files into the VM, then exec the bot inside the vm using the ssh command from the host. This allows the engine (running on the host) to communicate with the bot (running on the guest) through its stdin/stdout channels. 2010-09-11T13:23:45 well, not necessarily. freebsd has linux binary compatibilty 2010-09-11T13:23:50 *compatibility 2010-09-11T13:24:07 *** gilaniali has quit IRC (Quit: gilaniali) 2010-09-11T13:24:33 *** adrian3 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2010-09-11T13:24:57 are ships sent out before or after growth of planets, and are ships sent out before or after fleet arrivals? 2010-09-11T13:25:15 ulope: I did build this up, and it worked okay. It was slow (no kvm due to Ubuntu). The latest problem I was having was that when I kicked off the VM from a saved state, I could not SSH into it. For some reason saving the state then loading the state back would break its connectivity. 2010-09-11T13:25:48 Mathnerd314: depart, grow, arrive 2010-09-11T13:26:16 hopefully the spec i'm writing up will clear up questions like that easily in the future 2010-09-11T13:26:37 jmcarthur: that would be great. MAybe you could also edit the FAQ page on the website. 2010-09-11T13:27:02 *** McLeopold has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2010-09-11T13:27:06 j3camero: i'm currently working on it as a wiki page so we can edit it a little before perhaps transcribing it to the web site 2010-09-11T13:27:07 jmcarthur: so I have to wait an extra turn before sending out newly-arrived ships? (example: planet with 0 ships/growth, 100 ships arrive, can only send out on *next* turn) 2010-09-11T13:27:21 j3camero: Hm another reason to upgrade to a recent ubuntu release then. In 10.4 kvm is quite pleasant to setup and use 2010-09-11T13:27:30 ulope: if you're interested in security, I encourage you to produce a proof of concept of a sandboxing method that scales up well, and show it to everyone. We still don't have a truly satisfying answer for sandboxing. We're going to need it though. 2010-09-11T13:27:52 *** phreeza_mobile has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T13:28:10 ulope: decent idea! Next contest we will use a better Ubuntu. 2010-09-11T13:28:10 Mathnerd314: bot actions -> depart -> grow -> arrive -> bot actions -> depart -> grow -> arrive -> etc., i think 2010-09-11T13:28:25 *** gilaniali has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T13:28:30 *** blueiris has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T13:28:32 *** ihodes has quit IRC (Quit: ihodes) 2010-09-11T13:28:46 jmcarthur: I believe that is correct. 2010-09-11T13:29:03 brb 2010-09-11T13:29:12 On irc from my phone this is the future 2010-09-11T13:29:42 @rankings 2010-09-11T13:29:42 you are 10 years late :) 2010-09-11T13:29:43 phreeza_mobile: Top 10 players: dmj111(2824), albert(2822), seigen(2780), danielvf(2704), drewrobb(2695), Kavish(2679), cheese_bot(2657), sighbot(2636), zaphus(2585), zuko3d(2568) 2010-09-11T13:29:57 j3camero: What was the problem of getting kvm running on 8.04? 2010-09-11T13:29:59 :| 2010-09-11T13:30:18 ulope: one thing that will help a lot is getting rid of our current engine/bot communication model. Ideally, the engine and bot would talk through TCP. 2010-09-11T13:30:20 A1k0n resubmitted? 2010-09-11T13:30:23 i am wondering - can contest be spreaded around several machines? maybe we can just move it to cloud? 2010-09-11T13:30:23 yep 2010-09-11T13:30:28 and games aren't running. haha. 2010-09-11T13:30:36 Hehe 2010-09-11T13:30:38 i changed one number which improves my bot on benzedrine.cx 2010-09-11T13:31:01 dolphin278: we want to do this. Want to help build it? It would be great to start doing this. 2010-09-11T13:31:05 Yea i saw that 2010-09-11T13:31:35 j3camero: I was wondering about that. Was this sdin/out model just born out of the qemu necessities? 2010-09-11T13:31:39 ok, i'll try, and get back if i would have some working stuff. 2010-09-11T13:32:16 I think it would be cool to have many worhorse servers that just run bots. The engine would run on one server, and accept TCP connections from bots running on all the child servers. That way we could scale massively, and we would get so many games per minute. 2010-09-11T13:32:52 do you have the machines to scale like that? it wouldn't be hard to implement at all if everything comes through mysql 2010-09-11T13:33:01 ulope: nope, the stdin/stdout communication model was just a carryover from the first ever contests that I ran. It was inspired by the way that chess engines work, with programs like winboard. 2010-09-11T13:33:22 j3camero: do you still intend to use that server for general bot running? 2010-09-11T13:33:23 a1k0n: we don't have the machines right at the moment, but we could get them pretty fast. 2010-09-11T13:33:39 with google sticker :D 2010-09-11T13:33:46 j3camero: seriously: ai-contest.com server: http://pastebin.com/E4Zjdcs3 , hypertriangle.com surplus sale server($30) http://pastebin.com/kEucBPTX 2010-09-11T13:33:46 I think youd need more than one instance of the engine though 2010-09-11T13:34:22 phreeza_mobile: sure. But the current bottleneck is definitely finding more CPU for the bots. 2010-09-11T13:34:32 j3camero: but would you change the communication method at this point? 2010-09-11T13:34:52 ulope: yes. We would probably do TCP based communication at that point. 2010-09-11T13:35:02 j3camero: I mean for the current contest 2010-09-11T13:35:08 I think benzedrine slows down with 5 games i think but i can run 3 bots with hardly any cpu load 2010-09-11T13:35:21 -i think 2010-09-11T13:35:59 it's the internet pipe that is the problem, not the cpu 2010-09-11T13:36:06 FYI: server is playing games again. 2010-09-11T13:36:13 the neat thing about distributing the bots is that we could even use servers at different sites. If someone has an extra server in their basement, it could be used as a remote workhorse node. 2010-09-11T13:36:14 Woot 2010-09-11T13:36:15 And recording them 2010-09-11T13:36:38 j3camero: that possibility is precisely why i think each of those servers should run their own engine 2010-09-11T13:36:40 j3camero: yeah, but there would have to be a minimum/maximum spec to keep things fair 2010-09-11T13:36:54 (and yeha they'd have to run their own engines and just send results back) 2010-09-11T13:36:59 a1k0n: or find a way to use CPU time, then specs don't matter 2010-09-11T13:37:04 danielvf fixed the engine, I can only assume? 2010-09-11T13:37:08 dhartmei: your pipe? 2010-09-11T13:37:09 (unless you don't trust them, in which case you're just doomed anyway) 2010-09-11T13:37:09 well, CPU specs don't 2010-09-11T13:37:24 jail_users table was full of locks 2010-09-11T13:37:47 J3camero that could be done already with the tcp.c and the benzedrine server,right? 2010-09-11T13:38:13 danielvf: oh of course. It's amazing I didn't think of that. Every few days it fills up, and has to be cleared manually. I am not sure why those locks arent' being released. 2010-09-11T13:38:41 danielvf: there is a script, planet_wars/backend/release_all_jail_users.py. Just run that if this happens again. 2010-09-11T13:38:45 We could put the submissions up on S3 2010-09-11T13:38:48 ugh 2010-09-11T13:38:48 *** strank has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T13:39:00 (if you were looking at cloud servers) 2010-09-11T13:39:14 The master server would have an https api to hand out a game 2010-09-11T13:39:25 Even if time measurement was switched to CPU time (and it really should IMHO) different CPUs would still induce a bit of "unfairness" 2010-09-11T13:39:39 hmm, no the pipe isn't a problem, http://www.benzedrine.cx/pfstat.html not even 200 kbits/s 2010-09-11T13:39:50 client, running x number of workers would fetch which bots to play, fetch the bots, and then kick of the game 2010-09-11T13:39:57 ulope: true 2010-09-11T13:40:02 the cpu isn't, either: 99.0% idle 2010-09-11T13:40:12 *** s_denchev has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T13:40:17 when done, it would post the results back to the master 2010-09-11T13:40:17 ulope: but nowehere near as bad as the unfairness of using wall clock time 2010-09-11T13:40:28 *** mega1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T13:40:45 A single server could have multiple workers (up to the number of cores) 2010-09-11T13:40:55 jmcarthur: Sure, as I said I would be all for it to use cpu time 2010-09-11T13:41:50 contestbot: ping 2010-09-11T13:41:50 pong 2010-09-11T13:42:11 *** amstan has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-09-11T13:42:19 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T13:42:19 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2010-09-11T13:42:53 is it just me or is irc.quakenet down? 2010-09-11T13:42:57 danielvf: that's correct. That's what I am picturing. 2010-09-11T13:43:24 *** FlagCapper has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T13:43:38 danielvf: the main server could actually hand a set of submissions to a node, the node would run a full roundrobin of them, then send back all the game results. 2010-09-11T13:44:20 j3camero: Does that help knowing which is the better bot? 2010-09-11T13:44:21 danielvf: okay so I guess the leadeerboard is chugging along again, and I can take down the message at the top of the leaderboard? 2010-09-11T13:44:26 Yeah 2010-09-11T13:44:42 danielvf: what do you mean? I don't udnerstand. 2010-09-11T13:45:36 is playing a bunch of games roundrobin better at ranking people than playing individual random opponents? 2010-09-11T13:45:47 The message has been removed from the leaderboard. a1k0n, you are good to go! I bet you're pretty pissed about being number 2, huh? :-P 2010-09-11T13:46:36 Hah! I've moved up to #4 2010-09-11T13:46:45 the best way to find your rank is to play similarly ranked bots 2010-09-11T13:46:54 Are the bots still playing games or has that been halted? 2010-09-11T13:46:55 we need the scheduler to encourage that 2010-09-11T13:47:06 FlagCapper: they are playing now 2010-09-11T13:47:09 k 2010-09-11T13:47:12 FlagCapper: they haven't been all morning though 2010-09-11T13:47:21 jmcarthur: that's what I was guessing. 2010-09-11T13:47:31 j3camero: haha, not really, but my bot is slightly better than dmj's :) 2010-09-11T13:47:31 *** ermau has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T13:47:32 danielvf: neither is optimal. We have found the best way to schedule is to play bots against other bots of like strength. So the main server would take bots ranked 60 to 69, send them off to a worker node, which would play them all against one another, then send back the game results. The master would periodically re-rank. This means bots would get a lot of play against bots of like strength, and we would be making best use of bandwidth 2010-09-11T13:47:47 j3camero: i like that 2010-09-11T13:47:57 but i'm not even #2 now that i resubmitted until games start being played 2010-09-11T13:48:05 j3camero: Yes, that sounds best 2010-09-11T13:48:23 oh i got a game yay 2010-09-11T13:48:31 so, are we planning to try something like that for *this* contest, or just for the *next* one? 2010-09-11T13:48:36 So what's the deal with games ending as a draw on the first turn? 2010-09-11T13:48:38 danielvf, j3camero sorry I'm harping on about this but if the measurememt on the nodes would be measuring cpu time, one ,achine should easily be able to run 10 or more matches at once 2010-09-11T13:48:45 ermau: maybe both bots crashed? 2010-09-11T13:48:54 or timed out 2010-09-11T13:48:56 oh hey canvas is the default vis now 2010-09-11T13:49:00 Given that you spend the bandwidth to send a bunch of bots to a worker node, you might as well have the node play as many games as it can (a full roundrobin). This is based on the assumption that bandwidth is more precious than CPU time. 2010-09-11T13:49:18 j3camero: so far that has not been the case ;) 2010-09-11T13:49:21 jmcarthur: Is there any way to know what map a game was so I can test locally? 2010-09-11T13:49:28 jmcarthur: Because I really doubt mine is crashing or timing out 2010-09-11T13:49:34 would you organizers be able to get someone at google to give you free app engine credits? 2010-09-11T13:49:39 ermau: replace visualizer in the url with game_info, iirc 2010-09-11T13:49:39 j3camero: but response time on games is important too and anyway the bandwidth to report 'player A won' is miniscule 2010-09-11T13:49:53 airhorns: App engine wont do much good 2010-09-11T13:49:56 jmcarthur: Ah thanks 2010-09-11T13:50:01 j3camero: if all games were on amazon ec2, then all servers would be identical, and bandwidth from and to s3 is free 2010-09-11T13:50:27 At least the site is speedy today :) 2010-09-11T13:50:29 yeah ec2 would be the best for this 2010-09-11T13:50:31 ulope shit i donno what i was thinking nvm 2010-09-11T13:50:55 I ahve looked into EC2. I found it was pretty pricey. If we wanted to spend the money, it would definitely be great. I agree. 2010-09-11T13:51:03 pricey? really? 2010-09-11T13:51:14 http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/#pricing 2010-09-11T13:51:29 Okay I gotta go now. These are all great ideas. I think we should pursue all of them to make the next contest 20X bigger than this one. 2010-09-11T13:51:42 Although playing multiple games with the same bots would work will to even out statistical things before updating the rankings. 2010-09-11T13:51:49 j3camero: laters 2010-09-11T13:51:49 I will be back around 4 PM EST and I will do a bunch of work on stuff. 2010-09-11T13:52:14 how many CPU hours do you think we would have to buy from ec2? 2010-09-11T13:52:25 danielvf: you are the star of the last 24 hours. I really appreciate having you helping out. Seriously. You have helped hundreds of people. 2010-09-11T13:52:49 * jmcarthur claps 2010-09-11T13:53:04 Seconded 2010-09-11T13:53:09 thirded 2010-09-11T13:53:21 An engineers inability to resist playing with shiny things. 2010-09-11T13:53:42 is the tournament engine running on its own now? 2010-09-11T13:53:45 * jmcarthur never thought of a p4 as all that shiny 2010-09-11T13:53:46 jmcarthur: Hmm, map_id=743? I thought there were only 100 maps (at least that's all I have locally) 2010-09-11T13:53:57 ermau: there may be more on the server 2010-09-11T13:54:12 ermau: you should be able to get a full replay from that though 2010-09-11T13:54:17 including map info 2010-09-11T13:54:19 it 2010-09-11T13:54:21 dang 2010-09-11T13:54:24 it's just a different format 2010-09-11T13:54:29 *** braddunbar has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T13:54:45 Ooh I see the canvas is default now, nice 2010-09-11T13:54:53 Anyone else notice it stopping at random though? 2010-09-11T13:54:54 ermau: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/wiki/PlanetWarsFileFormats playback format at the bottom, i think 2010-09-11T13:54:56 jmcarthur: time for a small script then. 2010-09-11T13:55:03 man the site is actually like, fast 2010-09-11T13:55:37 did i hear someone say that minimax wasn't applicable to galcon a while ago? 2010-09-11T13:55:49 Yeah yesterday 2010-09-11T13:55:52 why is that 2010-09-11T13:55:56 is there anything feasible that we can do to increase security of the sandbox for *this* contest? 2010-09-11T13:55:59 That seems to be what some ppl think 2010-09-11T13:56:02 probably the simultaneous turns argument 2010-09-11T13:56:13 but i think minimax can be used to good effect anyway 2010-09-11T13:56:21 And the vastness of the search tree? 2010-09-11T13:56:22 i'm not going to say *not* applicable, but i will say not the best fit 2010-09-11T13:56:22 airhorns: absurdly high branching factor 2010-09-11T13:56:24 with some really serious pruning 2010-09-11T13:56:57 i could see game tree search if you are only searching for different decisions that a hueristic bot would make 2010-09-11T13:57:09 rather than searching everything or even pruning from everything 2010-09-11T13:57:13 i uploaded a new submission this morning, but I'm not get compiler-bot emails and I'm no longer in the rankings, is anyone else having this problem? 2010-09-11T13:57:33 braddunbar: Games are now playing again 2010-09-11T13:57:40 *** tapwater has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T13:57:47 braddunbar: starting about a half hour ago 2010-09-11T13:57:51 braddunbar, I uploaded 5 hours ago, it got compiled instantly... but I!m not in the rankings yet :) 2010-09-11T13:57:55 braddunbar: games were not running all morning but are not, so not appearing in the rankings makes some sense. and not getting a compiler email may not mean anything because we had some email issues earlier too 2010-09-11T13:57:56 i really liked the investment portfolio idea listed on the advanced strategy page issue in google issues 2010-09-11T13:57:58 *I'm 2010-09-11T13:58:23 danielvf: i'm sitll not listed though, is this normal? (30 min time to run a game that is) 2010-09-11T13:58:35 airhorns, what advanced strategy page? :) 2010-09-11T13:58:42 Palmik: Ah, ok...just so long as i'm not the only one =) 2010-09-11T13:58:48 the issue for it on the google issue tracker, not the page itself 2010-09-11T13:58:52 jmcarthur: Best I can tell, neither bot gave any orders, it just ended http://ai-contest.com/game_info.php?game_id=4434882 2010-09-11T13:58:53 Palmik: the ticket intended for adding information to it 2010-09-11T13:58:56 braddunbar: you can resubmit, just incase 2010-09-11T13:58:58 *** vikhyat has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2010-09-11T13:59:08 I see... I thought he meant "I got nothin" page :D 2010-09-11T13:59:16 danielvf: just did, i'll keep checking - thanks 2010-09-11T14:01:47 *** cobracom has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-11T14:03:07 *** wvdschel has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T14:03:07 I think i asked this before, is there numpy on the servers? 2010-09-11T14:03:32 phreeza_mobile: last time it was there 2010-09-11T14:03:38 and boost :) 2010-09-11T14:03:53 serious bug in the c# code regarding the parsing of floats 2010-09-11T14:03:58 ermau: it's possible that the engine (stupidly) does that if the bots error out. it's hard to tell :\ 2010-09-11T14:04:06 ermau: could check the source to the engine, i guess 2010-09-11T14:04:08 it should be fixed to a culture that uses '.' as a decimal seperator 2010-09-11T14:05:38 Wouldn't it be great if stderr output of the bots was saved and could be viewed from the "my profile" page? 2010-09-11T14:05:58 *** Umsturz has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T14:06:35 ulope: i would want some harsh conditions on that 2010-09-11T14:07:05 ulope: i would want only the first n characters of stderr to be logged, and i would want that information to be private for the owner of the bot 2010-09-11T14:07:16 where the former condition is more important than the latter, to me 2010-09-11T14:08:08 *** Obeleh has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T14:08:31 jmcarthur: sure. it should be limited to some reasonable amount (idk.. 1k or so) and I assumed that it should be private 2010-09-11T14:09:08 *** AJC has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T14:09:30 how are you guys debugging your Python bots? stdout and stderr don't seem to cooperate with the suggested command line to run the bot 2010-09-11T14:09:42 AJC: logging 2010-09-11T14:09:49 to file? 2010-09-11T14:10:19 Ajc i redirect stderr to a file 2010-09-11T14:10:41 OK, thanks. 2010-09-11T14:10:45 AJC: I posted an update to PlayGame.jar on the forums that forwards stderr to the console - lemme get the url 2010-09-11T14:10:48 Has the added bonus that i get interpreter messages too 2010-09-11T14:10:52 *** Mathnerd314 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-09-11T14:11:23 phreeza_mobile: yeah, that's the problem I'm having. 2010-09-11T14:11:24 AJC: http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=455 2010-09-11T14:11:27 AJC: yes. Look at http://github.com/ulope/planetwars-python-kit its an alternative replacement for the python starter kit I made that sets up logging for you 2010-09-11T14:11:38 phreeza_mobile: care to share your snippet? :-) 2010-09-11T14:11:44 among other things it does 2010-09-11T14:11:44 Ulope nice 2010-09-11T14:11:59 ulope: ah, I just saw that! 2010-09-11T14:11:59 Ajc i'm on my cellphone 2010-09-11T14:12:13 Otherwise sure 2010-09-11T14:12:29 ulope: do you get the interpreter messages too? 2010-09-11T14:12:56 AJC: tracebacks oyu mean? 2010-09-11T14:13:12 yeah 2010-09-11T14:13:56 AJC: yes. If logging is enabled (--logfile on the commadn line) it catches any exception your bot code throws and writes it (including traceback) to the logfile 2010-09-11T14:14:27 braddunbar: thanks... I guess it's not official yet. 2010-09-11T14:14:36 I'm going to update the repo with an example bot that uses logging 2010-09-11T14:15:05 AJC: nor will it be I don't think, I just built it locally....but will work with any language i believe 2010-09-11T14:15:14 *** rwa has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T14:16:22 braddunbar: hrm 2010-09-11T14:17:19 braddunbar: put a patch up on http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/list 2010-09-11T14:17:24 we'll get it in the official one 2010-09-11T14:17:36 i was thinking of doing the stderr passthrough myself 2010-09-11T14:17:57 also needs some sort of line terminator and locale fixing it seems 2010-09-11T14:18:54 *** yellowseed has left #aichallenge 2010-09-11T14:19:26 a1k0n: will do 2010-09-11T14:20:13 just as a point of ref: my bot has had one game in 5 hours 2010-09-11T14:20:32 i guess i should feel lucky with my three then 2010-09-11T14:20:43 *** alainesse has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T14:21:39 was a final decision made about neutral planet battle resolutions? 2010-09-11T14:22:01 is there any chance timeouts depend on server load? 2010-09-11T14:22:12 my one game I timed out - I've never timed out before 2010-09-11T14:23:17 probably, since there was a reported load of >100 on the server this morning 2010-09-11T14:24:08 Oo linux load averqge?? 2010-09-11T14:25:08 a1k0n: patch submitted, http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/detail?id=122 2010-09-11T14:25:11 j3camero: around? 2010-09-11T14:25:29 ugh, tabs 2010-09-11T14:25:49 oh, huh, you have to explicitly read the error stream eh 2010-09-11T14:26:15 visualizer on site is broken if no fleets are sent out 2010-09-11T14:26:24 i was just noticing that 2010-09-11T14:26:28 a1k0n: yep, that's the only way that worked for me 2010-09-11T14:26:29 http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=4436815# 2010-09-11T14:26:46 contestbot: game 4436815# 2010-09-11T14:26:46 amstan: Error: '4436815#' is not a valid integer. 2010-09-11T14:26:47 contestbot: game 4436815 2010-09-11T14:26:48 amstan: Game played at 2010-09-11 13:15:32, on map 741, t33kkk beat Cryptologist. http://ai-contest.com/visualizer_canvas.php?game_id=4436815 2010-09-11T14:26:54 that's interesting. it means java doesn't handle read buffer overruns at all 2010-09-11T14:27:02 or something is funky there 2010-09-11T14:27:07 link is broken? aww 2010-09-11T14:27:32 visualizer.php is now the canvas one amstan 2010-09-11T14:27:38 what about the java one? 2010-09-11T14:27:42 or it autodetects and does java if necessary it looks like 2010-09-11T14:27:47 oh, ok 2010-09-11T14:27:55 ulope: is there a way to get all planets? 2010-09-11T14:28:03 if(document.getElementById('display').getContext==undefined){ 2010-09-11T14:28:08 *** phreeza_mobile has quit IRC (Quit: Bye) 2010-09-11T14:28:10 pretty cool 2010-09-11T14:28:13 AJC: self.universe.planets 2010-09-11T14:28:32 ulope: ah, I was looking through find_planets and thought I'd have to dig into the cache 2010-09-11T14:28:32 hehe 2010-09-11T14:29:23 *** alainesse has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-11T14:29:36 i've begun a draft of the game specification on the wiki. if anybody would like, it's ready for review up to the end of the "The Map" section. i am obviously still working on it below that, and things are still subject to change, but here's an early preview: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/wiki/GameSpecification 2010-09-11T14:29:37 AJC: Yeah I should probably document that one a bit better. Another way would be: .find_planets(owner=player.EVERYBODY) 2010-09-11T14:29:49 ulope: and the distance calculation? 2010-09-11T14:30:15 planet1.distance(planet2) or planet1 - planet2 2010-09-11T14:30:34 ulope: thanks! 2010-09-11T14:30:36 ulope: you made the unoffical python starter kit didnt you? 2010-09-11T14:30:44 dstufft: yes 2010-09-11T14:30:52 ulope: just fyi it doesn't run on windows 2010-09-11T14:30:56 jmcarthur: might want to clarify that if a player loses all ships in both fleets and planets he loses 2010-09-11T14:30:58 windows doesn't have SIGALRM 2010-09-11T14:31:16 jmcarthur: do you know if was a final decision made about neutral planet battle resolutions? 2010-09-11T14:31:18 dstufft: Ah.. ok that for letting me know. Will fix it 2010-09-11T14:31:20 wrapping the signal.signal in try: except AtrributeError fixed it 2010-09-11T14:31:27 tapwater: yes 2010-09-11T14:31:42 a1k0n: it currently says "The game may also end earlier if one of the players loses all his ships, in which case the player that has ships remaining wins instantly." but there may be a better way to word it 2010-09-11T14:31:43 woah bot count has exploded agian 2010-09-11T14:31:48 i am so sick of debugging aha 2010-09-11T14:32:15 jmcarthur: right. unfortunately it's before fleets are explained. 2010-09-11T14:32:27 tapwater: we have opted for the "all three sides fight at once" method 2010-09-11T14:32:32 a1k0n: i will be restating it later 2010-09-11T14:32:39 a1k0n: that's just the overview section 2010-09-11T14:32:53 any news on ruby being added to the server? 2010-09-11T14:32:53 we can assume maps wont start with fleets yeah? 2010-09-11T14:32:58 AJC: Another thing that not really documented well: Everything that comes back from find_planets() or find_fleets() is a set, so you can do set "arithmentic" (i.e. intersection and the like) with it 2010-09-11T14:33:02 a1k0n: there will be a whole section for endgame conditions 2010-09-11T14:33:13 yeah fleets are probably not even valid in map files 2010-09-11T14:33:23 jmcarthur: oh i see, yeah 2010-09-11T14:33:25 woot! just won my first game! 2010-09-11T14:33:26 ulope: ah, thanks. I'm going for brute force so I just need all planets :-) 2010-09-11T14:33:32 a1k0n: fleets are valid in map files according to the spec that j3camero wrote a long time ago 2010-09-11T14:33:33 ulope: how about that logging? how do I set it up? 2010-09-11T14:33:36 AJC: good luck with that 2010-09-11T14:33:41 you're going to need it 2010-09-11T14:33:43 a1k0n: but only because it shares format with state updates 2010-09-11T14:33:47 antimatroid1: let's see :-) 2010-09-11T14:33:51 right-o 2010-09-11T14:33:54 AJC: I'm just about to post an update to the repo which will ahve sample code 2010-09-11T14:33:54 i may want to mention that 2010-09-11T14:34:00 jmcarthur: ah ok thanks 2010-09-11T14:35:10 i will also be adding a nav bar to it 2010-09-11T14:35:23 of course that would have to be redone if it's ported over to the main web site 2010-09-11T14:35:31 but whatever 2010-09-11T14:35:59 a1k0n: i may actually remove some of the details from the overview section when i add them to later sections 2010-09-11T14:36:13 is there any hope of moving to a distributed system for game evaluation? Or does existing investment in code make that unlikely? 2010-09-11T14:36:41 rwa: we might eventually do that, but i don't know the likelyhood for this particular contest. maybe just a later contest 2010-09-11T14:36:45 ulope: cool, let me know! 2010-09-11T14:37:18 jmcarthur: thanks. I am willing to put money towards hardware if it becomes feasible 2010-09-11T14:37:24 rwa imo should probably use something like celery and distribute game evaluation like that 2010-09-11T14:38:07 then adding a new game node is easy 2010-09-11T14:38:14 so is removing 2010-09-11T14:38:35 rwa: cool j3camero is the guy to talk to about that 2010-09-11T14:39:05 matches are speeding up now :D 2010-09-11T14:39:26 Time between them is shorter 2010-09-11T14:39:28 Yeah, we are playing a match every four seconds 2010-09-11T14:39:32 rock! 2010-09-11T14:39:47 gj 2010-09-11T14:40:22 yay... after more then 5 hours, I'm finally in the ladder :D 2010-09-11T14:40:38 491 bots now! 2010-09-11T14:40:48 I have two wins but no rank? o_O 2010-09-11T14:41:03 ermau: the rank updater run periodically 2010-09-11T14:41:09 ermau: it doesn't take too long 2010-09-11T14:41:14 *runs 2010-09-11T14:41:26 Ah, it was just weird because I had a rank right after the first game.. and then it went away 2010-09-11T14:41:32 oh, that is weird 2010-09-11T14:41:51 nice, I beat some with 4 wins which gave me a lot of rating :) 2010-09-11T14:43:04 okay, since it looks like nobody has any more feedback for me, i will continue with the spec now 2010-09-11T14:44:54 i think theres something wrong with the canvas, it stops playing for me on this game http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=4436648 2010-09-11T14:44:57 at turn 33 2010-09-11T14:45:01 *** Vio has quit IRC () 2010-09-11T14:45:13 phreeza: same for me 2010-09-11T14:45:21 it stops when there's no fleets 2010-09-11T14:45:24 for whatever reason 2010-09-11T14:45:25 ah 2010-09-11T14:45:27 ok 2010-09-11T14:45:30 is there a ticket? 2010-09-11T14:45:46 phreeza: and it continues if you hit the step button 2010-09-11T14:45:59 jmcarthur: yea is that intended or what? :D 2010-09-11T14:46:01 and then if you hit play again it stops again shortly after 2010-09-11T14:46:06 i doubt it's intended 2010-09-11T14:46:17 i haven't seen that before and doubt there is a ticket for it yet 2010-09-11T14:46:17 It skips a turn if you do that 2010-09-11T14:46:25 ermau: right 2010-09-11T14:46:42 it skips the turn with no fleets 2010-09-11T14:46:55 ugh svn is horrible 2010-09-11T14:47:03 why won't you commit >.> 2010-09-11T14:48:02 *** danielvf_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T14:48:35 http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/detail?id=123 2010-09-11T14:49:01 *** _habnabit <_habnabit!~ferazel@bean.habnabit.org> has left #aichallenge 2010-09-11T14:51:29 AJC: Have a look in the repo now. There is a new sample bot "loggingbot.py" 2010-09-11T14:51:49 *** danielvf has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-09-11T14:51:50 *** danielvf_ is now known as danielvf 2010-09-11T14:51:52 ulope: so I'm looping through self.universe.planets, they're planet ids apparently. how do I get the Planet object? 2010-09-11T14:52:00 ulope: thanks! I just found the --log parameter and that's working great. 2010-09-11T14:53:09 AJC: Hm yeah I should probably fix that. .planets is a dict so you can do for id, planet in self.universe.planets: 2010-09-11T14:53:33 ulope: thanks, that's OK if it's documented... 2010-09-11T14:53:36 AJC: Ah sorry that should be: for id, planet in self.universe.planets.items() 2010-09-11T14:54:01 *** phreeza has quit IRC (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep) 2010-09-11T14:54:23 AJC: I will probably cahnge that to also beeing a Planets set 2010-09-11T14:55:04 *** gggggggggggggggg has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T14:55:19 ggggggggg? 2010-09-11T14:55:46 ulope: ugh, yeah... the interface would be more consistent. how do you get the Planet object from the set? 2010-09-11T14:56:28 AJC: just a single one you mean? 2010-09-11T14:56:42 I have my_planets, looping over it, getting the ids as well. 2010-09-11T14:57:18 ulope: I should look it up myself in .planets 2010-09-11T14:57:40 AJC: the result from .my_planets should be a set 2010-09-11T14:57:56 is it intended that game data is available and fair game to use in your AI? 2010-09-11T14:58:17 AJC: not really (at least thats not how its suppodes to work) ;) 2010-09-11T14:59:10 AJC: how are you looping over it? Can you paste the code somewhere? 2010-09-11T14:59:38 ulope: "for p in self.universe.my_planets" 2010-09-11T14:59:49 ggggg was me 2010-09-11T14:59:51 lol 2010-09-11T15:00:07 AJC: yeah that should be a set of Planet objects 2010-09-11T15:00:07 checking the freenode webchat link 2010-09-11T15:01:06 rwa: what do you mean? 2010-09-11T15:01:23 ulope: right, thanks. got confused by the fact the log file persisted between multiple runs! 2010-09-11T15:01:40 AJC: been there, done that :) 2010-09-11T15:01:52 Zannick: as in the data used to visualize past games. Data mining that is fair game? 2010-09-11T15:02:53 yeah, i think 2010-09-11T15:03:30 you're not allowed to condition on the name of your opponent, but using old game data to train your bot is okay 2010-09-11T15:03:55 hmz, why is sending a single unit to a neutral planet with no ships not enough to capture it ? 2010-09-11T15:04:20 bartwe: because you need to get a newer version of that jar file 2010-09-11T15:04:23 to provoke the opponent into taking out the rest of the neutral ships? :) 2010-09-11T15:04:54 Zannick: how new isthe new version ? i down graded because the version of 5 hours ago did not work 2010-09-11T15:05:32 well, the version of 5 hours ago i guess still has problems 2010-09-11T15:05:42 the off-by-one thing was fixed on, like, tuesday 2010-09-11T15:06:01 ehhh 2010-09-11T15:06:24 so if i upgrade it stops working most likely ? 2010-09-11T15:06:54 http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=510 2010-09-11T15:07:14 *** aerique has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T15:07:31 http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=498 2010-09-11T15:08:20 *** bss03-AFK is now known as bss03 2010-09-11T15:08:38 Website seems at least functional today, if not quick. 2010-09-11T15:08:52 Also, I really appreciate the canvas viwer being the default. 2010-09-11T15:08:56 bss03, it's quite quic imo :) 2010-09-11T15:09:01 k 2010-09-11T15:09:17 *** braddunbar has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2010-09-11T15:12:35 *** ademar has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-09-11T15:13:08 Hmm, could anyone recommend some papers / articles / books on some basic ai algorithms? What I'm using now does not seem to be the optimal approach (as I'm basicly just sorting to obtain the planets I want to conquer) 2010-09-11T15:14:34 Norvig`s AIMA :) 2010-09-11T15:15:00 http://aima.cs.berkeley.edu 2010-09-11T15:15:33 Thanks, will check it out :) 2010-09-11T15:18:22 *** Utkarsh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2010-09-11T15:19:22 *** gilaniali has quit IRC (Quit: gilaniali) 2010-09-11T15:22:25 contestbot: sample db 2010-09-11T15:22:25 dstufft: Error: 'db' is not a valid positive integer. 2010-09-11T15:23:27 *** Utkarsh has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T15:23:31 http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=4433459 LOL 2010-09-11T15:24:13 clarification needed: in the map format, are planet IDs numbered from 0 or from 1? the wiki says 0 but it looks to me like the engine actually uses 1? 2010-09-11T15:24:51 yeah... it seems to be 1, not sure though 2010-09-11T15:25:05 I never seen 0 that is and I always start at 1 2010-09-11T15:25:38 http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/wiki/PlanetWarsFileFormats says "Planets are implicitly numbered starting from zero, in the order that they are encountered in the file." 2010-09-11T15:25:43 i'll update it if it's wrong 2010-09-11T15:26:38 *** gilaniali has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T15:27:14 http://codepad.org/ZzvX93Xx seems to be from 0 after all from this snippet 2010-09-11T15:27:43 but it can differe from starter package to starter package 2010-09-11T15:27:47 *** fucawb has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T15:28:03 0 is always the center planet 2010-09-11T15:28:17 ah okay 2010-09-11T15:28:21 *differ 2010-09-11T15:28:21 now it makes sense 2010-09-11T15:28:26 it starts at0 2010-09-11T15:28:29 * at 0 2010-09-11T15:28:37 then 1 and 2 are the starting planets 2010-09-11T15:29:12 and maps are 180-degree rotationally symmetric about the center planet 2010-09-11T15:29:36 game spec updated up through the I/O section: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/wiki/GameSpecification 2010-09-11T15:29:55 still working on that later stuff, and might have to give it a once over to make sure everything in there 2010-09-11T15:30:14 so planets 4 and 5 for example are "clones" of each other? 2010-09-11T15:30:30 Palmik: at least in the generator 2010-09-11T15:30:38 nice :) 2010-09-11T15:30:42 i'm not assuming anything like that though in case we end up adding some handmade maps 2010-09-11T15:30:50 of course :) 2010-09-11T15:31:06 but that would make copybot cry 2010-09-11T15:31:16 Palmik: actually i think 3 and 4 are mirrors, not 4 and 5 2010-09-11T15:31:40 jmcarthur, you are right :) 1, 2; 3, 4; ... 2010-09-11T15:31:49 that would make copybot do a lot of silly things 2010-09-11T15:32:01 and cry :'( 2010-09-11T15:32:20 actually, my copybot wouldn't crash 2010-09-11T15:32:24 i like how the wiki's syntax highlighter happens to look good for these map and command protocols 2010-09-11T15:32:45 and for the faux BNF 2010-09-11T15:33:05 I meant cry as an act of expressing sadness :) 2010-09-11T15:34:07 *** sinan has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T15:34:15 *** sinan is now known as staiii 2010-09-11T15:34:37 jmcarthur: any timeline for newline/culture/timeout fixes for the java jars in the starterpackages 2010-09-11T15:34:38 ? 2010-09-11T15:35:11 bartwe: not a clue 2010-09-11T15:35:19 ha :) 2010-09-11T15:35:22 these are not things i'm working on 2010-09-11T15:36:10 *** Utkarsh has quit IRC () 2010-09-11T15:38:01 *** mistabell has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T15:38:03 *** Utkarsh has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T15:39:32 contestbot: later tell j3camero People are still having problems with the email(registering and compiling), see this: http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=479 2010-09-11T15:39:32 amstan: The operation succeeded. 2010-09-11T15:39:56 ugh 2010-09-11T15:40:18 *** chevap has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T15:41:38 the new viz pauses after some turns on my end 2010-09-11T15:41:53 mistabell: that has been filed as a ticket 2010-09-11T15:42:03 cool 2010-09-11T15:42:12 mistabell: you can still advance the game step by step if you want to 2010-09-11T15:42:16 in the meantime 2010-09-11T15:42:22 *** chevap has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2010-09-11T15:42:39 *** chevap has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T15:44:12 wow, 500+ submissions already 2010-09-11T15:44:17 *** aerique has quit IRC (Quit: ...) 2010-09-11T15:46:02 *** dolphin278 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-11T15:48:07 nice 2010-09-11T15:54:12 geh, the contest runner is eating loads of cpu 2010-09-11T15:54:48 *** ratatata has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T15:54:59 hello again 2010-09-11T15:55:36 *** gilaniali has quit IRC (Quit: gilaniali) 2010-09-11T15:56:29 *** ratatata has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2010-09-11T15:57:33 The copybot strategy doesn't actually work even with symmetric planets, does it? Being one move behind is a huge disadvantage. 2010-09-11T15:58:11 *** ratatata has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T16:00:04 not sure if you can win in that strategy 2010-09-11T16:00:07 huzzah, took a whole night 2010-09-11T16:00:13 but i think that works now 2010-09-11T16:00:14 he won few times 2010-09-11T16:00:18 and tied 2010-09-11T16:00:24 atleast i got somethign to run on benzedrine 2010-09-11T16:00:24 the one tie was hilarious :) 2010-09-11T16:02:25 bartwe: try http://a1k0n.net/temp/PlayGame.jar 2010-09-11T16:02:48 a1k0n: thanks 2010-09-11T16:03:05 what's different in that PlayGame ? 2010-09-11T16:03:22 changed String.format to a bunch of string concatenations like in the original 2010-09-11T16:03:37 i suspect the locale handling in String.format is switching . and , which results in an invalid planet format 2010-09-11T16:03:58 coventry`: yes, but there are cases where it wins 2010-09-11T16:04:18 bartwe: yes, in fact, copybot does win sometimes 2010-09-11T16:04:34 a good bot should never lose to it 2010-09-11T16:04:46 also, i should run copybot on the tcp server, shouldn't i? 2010-09-11T16:04:47 *** rwa has quit IRC (Quit: rwa) 2010-09-11T16:04:52 Zannick: intresting, do you run a copybot on the tcp thing ? 2010-09-11T16:05:03 ah please do, i'm intrested 2010-09-11T16:05:03 @where tcp 2010-09-11T16:05:03 Zannick: I do not know about 'tcp', but I do know about these similar topics: 'tcpserver' 2010-09-11T16:05:05 Zannick, please :) 2010-09-11T16:05:12 contestbot, tcpserver 2010-09-11T16:05:13 Palmik: tcpserver = http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/ 2010-09-11T16:05:13 http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/tcp.c 2010-09-11T16:05:25 works with cygwin if your on windows 2010-09-11T16:05:30 on linux 2010-09-11T16:05:57 bartwe: does my updated jar work at all? 2010-09-11T16:06:03 i need feedback before i commit 2010-09-11T16:06:09 as i can't repro 2010-09-11T16:06:12 1 min 2010-09-11T16:06:45 *** mega1 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-09-11T16:06:47 *** mega1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T16:07:24 a1k0n: looking good so far 2010-09-11T16:07:29 excellent 2010-09-11T16:07:39 a1k0n: it hasn't completed a full round yet 2010-09-11T16:07:46 a1k0n: yep flawless 2010-09-11T16:07:48 but it didn't utterly fail like it used to 2010-09-11T16:08:16 more updates to the spec. written up through battling http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/wiki/GameSpecification 2010-09-11T16:08:52 a1k0n: Wow your new PlayGame completely changes the game outcome. Is this the result of the fixed battle resolution code? 2010-09-11T16:09:04 ulope: yep 2010-09-11T16:09:09 almost done with the draft, then i'll get you guys to study it a bit before i declare it ready for mass consumption 2010-09-11T16:09:21 ulope: well, probably. also many bugfixes over the original 2010-09-11T16:09:24 like randomly disappearing fleets 2010-09-11T16:09:38 a1k0n: Yeah I've seen some of those 2010-09-11T16:09:50 hmz, no time to fix bugs 2010-09-11T16:09:55 a1k0n: locale handling. nice 2010-09-11T16:09:56 meh, more time tomorrow 2010-09-11T16:10:51 *** braddunbar has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T16:11:01 coventry`: being one move behind can also be an advantage. it means you have a chance to wipe out a fleet after it's still weak from battling neutral ships 2010-09-11T16:11:34 Oh, right. 2010-09-11T16:11:47 *** mega1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-09-11T16:11:59 *** mega1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T16:12:19 *** gefunkt has quit IRC (Quit: gefunkt) 2010-09-11T16:14:20 winning due to a code bug 2010-09-11T16:14:33 hm, i had a number of invalid orders for some reason 2010-09-11T16:15:21 what do you guys do to make debugging easy/possible ? 2010-09-11T16:15:34 I logged into file 2010-09-11T16:15:42 DeepBlue seems to have implemented the Go proveb "Rich men don't pick fights." :-) http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284234315|deepblue|a1k0n-0.2 2010-09-11T16:16:08 *** mega1 has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2010-09-11T16:16:25 lol, nice 2010-09-11T16:16:28 hehe 2010-09-11T16:16:44 oh the struggle 2010-09-11T16:16:47 strange tactics 2010-09-11T16:16:49 *** gilaniali has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T16:16:57 But somehow awesome 2010-09-11T16:17:02 lots of wealth but not picking some of the neutrals 2010-09-11T16:17:04 bartwe: I'm planning to use manhole or whatever the current popular python equivalent is. http://blog.vrplumber.com/index.php?/archives/1631-Minimal-example-of-using-twisted.manhole-Since-it-took-me-so-long-to-get-it-working....html 2010-09-11T16:17:14 not making a nice killer force 2010-09-11T16:18:10 *** mega1_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T16:18:40 http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284235705|bartwe|dmj.4 for some stupid reason/bug it keeps sending small attacks 2010-09-11T16:18:44 no clue why 2010-09-11T16:19:50 does anyone know how many games the contest site is running per (unit time)? 2010-09-11T16:20:09 exceeding the time limit currently leads to DQ. is crashing treated the same way, or is it just a forfeit? 2010-09-11T16:20:15 and is it using the contributed scheduler? 2010-09-11T16:20:18 *** Theobon has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T16:20:23 i think it's still random :( 2010-09-11T16:20:44 a1k0n: danielvf reported 1 game every 4 seconds earlier 2010-09-11T16:20:58 And is it wall time or CPU time? engine.py suggests wall time, but that seems unpredictable. 2010-09-11T16:21:05 coventry`: wall time :( 2010-09-11T16:21:10 (Particularly if the games are running on the same machine as the server.) 2010-09-11T16:21:13 a1k0n: no :( 2010-09-11T16:21:32 everybody check these endgame conditions and let me know if they are wrong or incomplete http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/wiki/GameSpecification#Endgame_Conditions 2010-09-11T16:21:36 jmcarthur: wow really? 2010-09-11T16:21:42 jmcarthur: 1 game every 4 seconds? Are they running simultaneous now? 2010-09-11T16:21:50 ulope: they had been, i thought 2010-09-11T16:22:10 damn it, i've lost all but 1 of around 20 games on the tcp server 2010-09-11T16:22:25 a1k0n: Yeah, we are playing a match every four seconds 2010-09-11T16:22:27 jmcarthur: Hm maybe they cahnged it then. 2010-09-11T16:22:28 jmcarthur: the 'own all planets' condition is out? 2010-09-11T16:22:40 I suck as badly, though my new bot might be better - its 8/10 for dual and 9/10 for rage 2010-09-11T16:22:46 dhartmei: is that sufficient even if the opponent has a fleet? 2010-09-11T16:22:50 *** mega1_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-09-11T16:22:50 ok, i'm out 2010-09-11T16:23:01 not sure, the initial description mentioned it 2010-09-11T16:23:08 I finally hit 100/100 on all bots last night 2010-09-11T16:23:33 mistabell: The example bots 2010-09-11T16:23:36 ? 2010-09-11T16:23:43 yeah, that was kind of my personal goal. haha 2010-09-11T16:23:52 :) 2010-09-11T16:23:57 "The objective is to take over all the planets on the map, or altenatively eliminate all of your opponents ships." 2010-09-11T16:23:59 dhartmei: i seem to recall a game that went on all the way until a fleet arrived even though it was the only remaining force and all planets were captured, but i could be making that up 2010-09-11T16:24:03 why mention it at all there? 2010-09-11T16:24:20 did i write that? 2010-09-11T16:24:27 no, problem description page 2010-09-11T16:24:30 oh, no 2010-09-11T16:24:31 okay 2010-09-11T16:24:33 hmm 2010-09-11T16:24:45 jmcarthur, I saw that with the "fleet only" many times 2010-09-11T16:24:46 *** tebele has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T16:24:53 hi :) 2010-09-11T16:24:53 but the official engine doesn't check that condition, either 2010-09-11T16:25:08 so, maybe drop it, and adjust the problem description page? 2010-09-11T16:25:11 do you guys think i should add it to the spec anyway? it could be a bug? 2010-09-11T16:25:14 a1k0n, did u fix the C# package? 2010-09-11T16:25:27 *** gefunkt has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T16:26:30 also, any other thoughts on the spec? 2010-09-11T16:27:08 Yes, the problem description page is wrong. You win if you have more ships than your opponent at round 200. You don't have to wipe them out or take over all the planets. 2010-09-11T16:27:17 dhartmei: you being one who has reimplemented the engine, i'd especially like it if you skimmed over it, if you have the time 2010-09-11T16:27:21 more ships or more planets? 2010-09-11T16:27:38 tebele: more ships 2010-09-11T16:27:52 jmcarthur: when the turn limit is hit, is this last turn evaluated or not? 2010-09-11T16:27:52 including fleets 2010-09-11T16:27:58 engine.py: "outcome["winner"] = player_with_most_ships(planets, fleets)" 2010-09-11T16:28:02 RobinB: i do not know. good question 2010-09-11T16:28:05 and in forums say more ships AND growther rate 2010-09-11T16:28:21 *** JensT1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T16:28:22 might make a difference when arriving at neutral planets, thus changing the number of ships 2010-09-11T16:28:30 does anybody know if it's 200 sets of commands or just 200 game states? 2010-09-11T16:28:41 jmcarthur, how to speak in red here, directly to a user? 2010-09-11T16:28:42 200 including initial state, that is 2010-09-11T16:28:47 looks good to me, except maybe: "A bot exceeds the time limit without completing its orders", you mean "sends its 'go', ending its turn", right? 2010-09-11T16:28:59 200 sets 2010-09-11T16:29:02 dhartmei: i will clarify that 2010-09-11T16:29:12 and 200 game states 2010-09-11T16:29:16 Zannick: thanks. i'll be more clear about that too 2010-09-11T16:29:19 Zannick: err 2010-09-11T16:29:30 Zannick: so the last game state is not sent then. makes sense 2010-09-11T16:29:44 *** mega1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T16:30:54 did anyone ever code version coming from git to version checks inside programs, or version reporting? 2010-09-11T16:31:45 I read the sentence 5 times... still don't know what you try to ask amstan ... 2010-09-11T16:32:03 me either 2010-09-11T16:32:06 so.. inside one of my programs, i have a version check if checkInData["software_version"]!="ed0877e4d874ad81947ddd8305c8c74c1c73afc2": 2010-09-11T16:32:10 *** alex79 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T16:32:24 is it possible to get git to update that hash on every commit? 2010-09-11T16:32:45 i attempted to clarify the meaning of "200 turns" under Turns, immediately above Bot I/O: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/wiki/GameSpecification#Turns 2010-09-11T16:32:50 amstan: pre-commit hook 2010-09-11T16:32:51 Zannick: does that look right to you? 2010-09-11T16:33:50 *** tebele has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-11T16:33:53 jmcarthur: yeah 2010-09-11T16:33:57 thanks 2010-09-11T16:37:34 woot http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284236692|dhartmei|Cyndre 2010-09-11T16:38:48 *** danielvf has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-09-11T16:39:05 *** mega1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-09-11T16:39:16 *** danielvf has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T16:39:18 I'm back 2010-09-11T16:39:23 wb 2010-09-11T16:39:29 jmcarthur: Thanks for writing up the spec 2010-09-11T16:39:32 Really needed 2010-09-11T16:39:34 np 2010-09-11T16:39:48 now i just want to have it reviewed heavily before we declare it canon 2010-09-11T16:40:45 jmcarthur: So is 200 going to be THE-NUMBER then? I'm stillhoping for it to be raised 2010-09-11T16:40:46 then we can work out what to do with it. i'm thinking we could perhaps integrate it in with Problem Description or something 2010-09-11T16:41:05 ulope: i wrote in the spec that it's subject to change but will be hardened later 2010-09-11T16:41:21 i should say that everywhere that the number 200 is mentioned though 2010-09-11T16:41:26 doing that now 2010-09-11T16:41:51 jmcarther: if two planet occupy the same coordinate, is the totalTipTime then 1 or 0 2010-09-11T16:41:52 jmcarthur: Ah I've just seen it. 2010-09-11T16:42:02 ulope: oh, i already do that. :) 2010-09-11T16:42:11 now that I've played a bunch, I think 200 isn't too bad 2010-09-11T16:42:24 bartwe: two planets should not occupy the same coordinates, i think, but i don't know 2010-09-11T16:42:25 On the tcpserver, games under a given name are aggregated even if the client disconnected from the server in between games, right? 2010-09-11T16:42:38 coventry`: should be 2010-09-11T16:42:40 jmcarthur: put it in the spec then :) 2010-09-11T16:42:54 bartwe: i'm going to check the source of the map generator first 2010-09-11T16:43:29 bartwe: ah, there is a function for making sure planets are not too close 2010-09-11T16:43:34 adding to the spec 2010-09-11T16:45:06 Thanks, jmcarthur. It makes it a little harder to assess a bot's strategies, because it's presumably under development between games. 2010-09-11T16:45:40 bartwe: oh, apparently that can happen in the generator 2010-09-11T16:46:02 jmcarthur: Maybe you should add a part about planet ids (i.e. will always be send in the same order, numbered from 0 to n...) 2010-09-11T16:46:05 jmcarthur: i think it can then underflow the 'turns remaining' 2010-09-11T16:46:10 bartwe: if two planets have zero growth rate that could theoretically be on top of each other and pass that check 2010-09-11T16:46:11 *** bss03 is now known as bss03-AFK 2010-09-11T16:47:05 coventry`: yeah :( i'd like to harden it asap 2010-09-11T16:47:06 *** danielvf has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-09-11T16:47:20 ulope: good idea 2010-09-11T16:47:35 *** mega1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T16:47:37 bartwe: good call. that might actually be a (unlikely to trigger) bug 2010-09-11T16:47:43 *** danielvf has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T16:48:11 jmcarthur: is the map guaranteed to be symmetric? 2010-09-11T16:48:13 bartwe: i will say in the spec that planets are not allowed to occupy the exact same position, and then file a bug report on the map generator 2010-09-11T16:48:15 staiii: no 2010-09-11T16:48:21 jmcarthur: damn :P 2010-09-11T16:48:43 the current map generator, however, makes only symmetric maps 2010-09-11T16:48:56 and only the center planet may have growth 0 2010-09-11T16:49:08 Zannick: oh, if that's true then there is no bug 2010-09-11T16:49:29 some might say the bug is allowing that planet to have 0 growth :) 2010-09-11T16:49:36 it's just a subtle detail that might creep in later if we modify the generator 2010-09-11T16:49:52 i don't think 0 growth is so bad 2010-09-11T16:50:02 i suspect that 5 growth may be too high though 2010-09-11T16:50:10 5 growth is so op 2010-09-11T16:50:30 growth in general is crazy fast compared to galcon 2010-09-11T16:51:29 the maximum growth rate doesn't really change the competition-problem though 2010-09-11T16:51:56 except if you hard-code them in your solution, which would be somewhat dumb 2010-09-11T16:52:00 Someone want to youtube a canvas visualized game so we can use it on the home page? 2010-09-11T16:52:41 RobinB, indeed, those planets might even make it interesting, since most AI's will fight very hard for them 2010-09-11T16:52:43 *** alarisrt has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-11T16:52:55 does the PlayGame.jar take and argument to just ignore invalid commands? 2010-09-11T16:53:05 but there may be to many high-growth planets 2010-09-11T16:53:06 *take some argument 2010-09-11T16:53:14 RobinB: indeed. it's not a bug. it's just boring :P 2010-09-11T16:54:09 hm, wouldn't changing the max-growth rate be equivalent with changing the fleet speed? I'm not sure how it affects games 2010-09-11T16:54:10 i wonder if a planet having negative growth would penalize poorly coded bots :) 2010-09-11T16:54:23 that would be cool, hehe 2010-09-11T16:54:27 RobinB: it would also change the demand for planets 2010-09-11T16:54:45 why would you even land on such planet? 2010-09-11T16:54:50 Palmik: exactly 2010-09-11T16:54:54 it would be a bad bot to do that 2010-09-11T16:54:55 positional advantage? 2010-09-11T16:54:56 clearly, to make copybot take it 2010-09-11T16:54:58 *** Scrap has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T16:55:03 hi RobinB 2010-09-11T16:55:07 uh oh, sites not happy again 2010-09-11T16:55:08 oh, hey Caleb 2010-09-11T16:55:13 :) 2010-09-11T16:55:23 I can see some use for the 0 growth one (like storing your ships on a "safe" place, plus it's in the middle) 2010-09-11T16:55:35 danielvf: check for database locks again? :\ 2010-09-11T16:56:26 well, i could see a use for a non-defended negative growth planet, if the position is exceptionally good it would allow for quick counter-reactions. but i'm not sure if it actually would improve the game outcome 2010-09-11T16:56:55 dunno 2010-09-11T16:57:13 *** mega1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-09-11T16:57:13 jmcarthur: The game runner is hogging the db 2010-09-11T16:57:21 dang 2010-09-11T16:57:31 maybe we should run fewer games at a time 2010-09-11T16:57:38 jmcarthur: no, that's not it 2010-09-11T16:57:49 Just when a game player starts up 2010-09-11T16:57:57 to run a couple hundred games 2010-09-11T16:58:04 oh i see 2010-09-11T16:58:05 *** mega1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T16:58:10 it askes for all the games in the database 2010-09-11T16:58:11 so it's something that just slows the site down periodically? 2010-09-11T16:58:21 the problem description is much to vague and not start-pack agnostic 2010-09-11T16:58:29 *** Queue29 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T16:58:37 wvdschel: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/wiki/GameSpecification 2010-09-11T16:58:37 I can't even find out what the input format means 2010-09-11T16:58:40 Yes, website back without me doing anything 2010-09-11T16:58:43 ah, thx 2010-09-11T16:58:44 wvdschel: i just finished writing that :D 2010-09-11T16:58:50 thx jmcarthur 2010-09-11T16:58:53 :) 2010-09-11T16:58:57 danielvf: this is in tournament_manager.py? 2010-09-11T16:59:03 wvdschel: hopefully there aren't too many errors 2010-09-11T16:59:07 in readgames.py 2010-09-11T16:59:12 wvdschel: if you find anything vague, please ask. i want it to be clear 2010-09-11T16:59:24 *** gilaniali has quit IRC (Quit: gilaniali) 2010-09-11T16:59:42 jmcarthur, I'm going to start without a starter pack (as I did last time) 2010-09-11T16:59:49 *** ippeb has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T17:00:08 so I'll probably bug you if I still have questions :) 2010-09-11T17:00:15 hey, if anybody wants to draw up some nice diagrams or anything to go with the spec for clarity, that would be awesome 2010-09-11T17:00:15 additional goodies in the visualizer on benzedrine, from zerd! :) 2010-09-11T17:00:30 i can do diagrams, but i'm so slow. i'm sure somebody else out there is faster than i am 2010-09-11T17:00:37 *** ippeb has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2010-09-11T17:00:38 dhartmei: sweet! 2010-09-11T17:00:59 hmmm, i just put in a very naive one 2010-09-11T17:01:24 dhartmei: is that ships/growth? 2010-09-11T17:01:26 i'm not even sure if my code works properly and it's just making use of some bits of information rather than trying to do anything specific 2010-09-11T17:01:42 the organisation profile page seems broken, btw. http://ai-contest.com/organization_profile.php?org_id=133 2010-09-11T17:02:02 so does country profile 2010-09-11T17:02:06 jmcarthur: yes 2010-09-11T17:02:25 jmcarthur, I may have missed it, but it doesn't say what the speed of ships is 2010-09-11T17:02:30 I assume it's 1? 2010-09-11T17:02:44 *** mega1 has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2010-09-11T17:02:54 wvdschel: yes. i'll try to clarify that. at what point in the document did it occur to you that it didn't say that? 2010-09-11T17:03:19 jmcarthur, the part where it said how to issue orders 2010-09-11T17:03:19 wvdschel: actually, it does say how many turns it takes to get from one planet to another 2010-09-11T17:03:38 ah right 2010-09-11T17:03:40 hmm 2010-09-11T17:03:48 but i can't find it. maybe i should say it redundantly 2010-09-11T17:03:49 you shouldn't mention the speed, it's implicit 2010-09-11T17:03:55 RobinB: right 2010-09-11T17:03:57 also, it's not exactly 1 2010-09-11T17:04:16 RobinB, how so? 2010-09-11T17:04:17 *** permutatie has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T17:04:21 might confuse people ... the time it takes is given by ceil(distance(a,b)) 2010-09-11T17:04:30 ah ok 2010-09-11T17:04:34 the rounding influences the speed 2010-09-11T17:04:40 i'll copy over from the Fleets section to the Bot Orders section 2010-09-11T17:04:53 wvdschel: what language are you making yours in? 2010-09-11T17:05:05 CL or lua 2010-09-11T17:05:27 i know that there are like 12 CL starter packs, but I don't want someone else's scaffolding 2010-09-11T17:05:54 I'm going to go away and code for a few 2010-09-11T17:06:17 JensT1, is there lua support at this point? 2010-09-11T17:07:21 acording to the source code there is 2010-09-11T17:07:41 not on the zeus server thought :p 2010-09-11T17:07:51 does it use luajit? :P 2010-09-11T17:08:03 because I'm sticking to CL if it doesn't use luajit 2010-09-11T17:08:08 *** gefunkt has quit IRC (Quit: gefunkt) 2010-09-11T17:08:18 JensT1, is there CL support on our server? 2010-09-11T17:08:44 clojure? 2010-09-11T17:08:50 okay, i stated it again under Departure rather than under Bot Orders 2010-09-11T17:08:50 Common Lisp 2010-09-11T17:09:03 jmcarthur, thx! 2010-09-11T17:09:10 hmm... after 3 wins my ranking did not change, unlucky guy xD 2010-09-11T17:09:14 wvdschel: nope 2010-09-11T17:09:26 only java, python, c and c++ 2010-09-11T17:09:27 atm 2010-09-11T17:10:54 wvdschel: you can check by sending in a dummy zip package with no sourcecode in it, it will reply to you what source files are accepted 2010-09-11T17:11:01 *** deepblue has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T17:11:10 but cant do that now since I have a bot that I would like to keep into competition 2010-09-11T17:11:14 *** gefunkt has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T17:11:25 haskell is also supported 2010-09-11T17:11:30 heya deepblue 2010-09-11T17:11:33 just no official starter 2010-09-11T17:11:33 oh, that is, if the mail system is working again? 2010-09-11T17:11:49 hey all 2010-09-11T17:12:03 dhartmei thanks for the awesome tcp thing 2010-09-11T17:12:27 ulope: is there a shorthand to check if "planet.owner in player.ENEMIES"? 2010-09-11T17:12:28 my pleasure 2010-09-11T17:12:29 works like a charm and helps me a lot and I love your visualisation :) 2010-09-11T17:12:57 yea, your visualizer is looking very nice now 2010-09-11T17:13:06 oh hey, shipcounts and total production, very nice 2010-09-11T17:13:53 543 bots in play atm 2010-09-11T17:13:58 how do I send something to the log file? 2010-09-11T17:14:14 *** mega1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T17:14:40 Cyndre: you make your own log file ;) 2010-09-11T17:15:01 Cyndre: i heard you need to specify another name then log.txt 2010-09-11T17:15:04 okay, maybe i can finally get around to coding me bot now 2010-09-11T17:15:06 since that gets overwritten 2010-09-11T17:15:09 was wondering that - with the java game command using log.txt 2010-09-11T17:15:21 specify mylog.txt in the startup command and it should work 2010-09-11T17:16:40 *** JCS^ has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T17:16:41 i haven't done any part of the visualizer, all that was done by danielvf, javache, and zerd :) 2010-09-11T17:17:03 but I see you worked on a nice bot yourself 2010-09-11T17:17:05 cool, ty 2010-09-11T17:17:12 jmcarthur: what is the official extention for haskel files? 2010-09-11T17:17:21 JensT1: hs 2010-09-11T17:17:25 MyBot.hs 2010-09-11T17:17:29 yeah, but top ten in the first few days means nothing, if the past repeats :) 2010-09-11T17:17:30 thx 2010-09-11T17:17:31 ulope: got it, it's a simple set... planet.owner in player.ENEMIES. 2010-09-11T17:17:38 is there a list of all oficial extentions jmcarthur? 2010-09-11T17:17:43 since I know it's in the database 2010-09-11T17:17:48 *** phreeza_mobile has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T17:17:50 AJC: I was just about to write it :) 2010-09-11T17:17:59 ulope: thanks, it's looking good. 2010-09-11T17:18:06 i'm not sure if I should update my bot on the official site so far its running just a modified sample 2010-09-11T17:18:15 ulope: brute force loop through planets twice nested and all fleets is 2ms 2010-09-11T17:18:16 JensT1: there are some in the source code, but not all of them are in the db and are thus still not supported 2010-09-11T17:18:25 there are almost no games right now, it will just drop out of the rankings 2010-09-11T17:18:27 thats awsome - prints write to the log file - ty a lot JensT1 2010-09-11T17:18:29 i wish i could get a dump from the db of that info 2010-09-11T17:18:34 yeah, that's what I want to know 2010-09-11T17:18:39 which ones are in the db? 2010-09-11T17:18:48 * jmcarthur shrugs 2010-09-11T17:18:50 someone should updata the page witht he command on it to show mylog.txt 2010-09-11T17:18:57 I guess I wait until everything runs faster and have fun with the tcp in the mean while 2010-09-11T17:18:57 i know the starter pack languages and haskell. that all i know 2010-09-11T17:19:05 AJC: I've made a few more updates to the repo (including changing universe.planets to be set) 2010-09-11T17:19:07 deepblue: that's my plan as well 2010-09-11T17:19:08 yours is peculiar, not resembling any other games i have watched so far 2010-09-11T17:19:13 *** ckoehler has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2010-09-11T17:19:15 @rankings 2010-09-11T17:19:16 phreeza_mobile: Top 10 players: albert(2816), dmj111(2792), seigen(2776), Kavish(2734), danielvf(2706), drewrobb(2692), strank(2651), cheese_bot(2643), sighbot(2623), zaphus(2589) 2010-09-11T17:19:18 ulope: I saw, just updated... still works! 2010-09-11T17:19:30 i'll keep an eye on it :) 2010-09-11T17:19:45 jmcarthur: ok, I could test by sending a zip with an unsuported format, and Iwould get a reply mial telling me witch files are ok 2010-09-11T17:19:54 but don't wanna get my bot out of competition :p 2010-09-11T17:19:57 thx anyway 2010-09-11T17:20:36 JensT1: i'll do it 2010-09-11T17:20:44 i don't have a bot up right now, but i do have an account 2010-09-11T17:21:01 *** strank has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-09-11T17:21:02 a1k0n is a great opponent too 2010-09-11T17:21:10 Hmm, the breaks on the graphs are always in the same direction at the same time for both bots more or less 2010-09-11T17:21:18 I see why now 2010-09-11T17:21:23 it's num ships 2010-09-11T17:21:26 :) 2010-09-11T17:21:34 Palmik: not always at the same time. sometimes they attack neutrals instead 2010-09-11T17:21:54 yeah, more or less :P 2010-09-11T17:22:32 JensT1: okay now it's just a waiting game 2010-09-11T17:22:33 *** mega1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-09-11T17:22:41 k, thx :) 2010-09-11T17:23:04 *** phreeza_mobile has quit IRC (Quit: Bye) 2010-09-11T17:24:14 *** Kastra has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T17:24:30 *** dolphin278 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T17:24:43 wow the new viz on benzedrine shows ships & growth, that's rad 2010-09-11T17:24:44 *** staiii has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2010-09-11T17:25:04 i just tried getting cygwin to work 2010-09-11T17:25:10 but it wont even pick up gcc :| 2010-09-11T17:25:15 I'm off to bed, gn :) 2010-09-11T17:25:17 *** Palmik has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-09-11T17:25:44 Does anyone know if the box playing the games is powerful enough to calc a planet distance map in python? My box isnt able to but its a pretty weak one 2010-09-11T17:25:48 it's 7 20am here, oops 2010-09-11T17:26:36 greghaynes: your box seriously can't do that? 2010-09-11T17:26:42 greghaynes: by box you mean pc? 2010-09-11T17:26:47 * jmcarthur thinks greghaynes is doing something wrong 2010-09-11T17:26:48 Im on my laptop... 2010-09-11T17:26:59 greghaynes: yeah, it doest that 20times a second in my bot 2010-09-11T17:27:09 only 20? 2010-09-11T17:27:12 even that seems low 2010-09-11T17:27:16 Hey, deepblue, I see that you sit for the first turn, to see whether your opponent does anything exploitable. How long would you sit if the other guy sat too? :-) 2010-09-11T17:27:18 heh, thats more than I wanted to know :) 2010-09-11T17:27:20 Thanks 2010-09-11T17:27:24 well, I only made it do it 20 times or so :p 2010-09-11T17:27:44 every turn 2010-09-11T17:27:47 it's only 529 distances, and thats if you check planets against themselves too 2010-09-11T17:27:54 *** evgenius has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T17:27:54 coventry` hehe only one turn 2010-09-11T17:28:12 which bot is yours? 2010-09-11T17:28:33 I may be doing somethign wrong if it should be that fast...I even took the sqrt out of the distances and cant do it 2010-09-11T17:28:34 I haven't made one, yet. I'm just looking and getting ideas. 2010-09-11T17:28:41 *** gilaniali has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T17:28:44 o greghaynes, an entire map? 2010-09-11T17:28:49 Yep 2010-09-11T17:28:54 then go ahead it's fun! 2010-09-11T17:28:55 *** Obeleh has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-11T17:28:55 I do about 20 distances, and that's ok 2010-09-11T17:28:57 haha, I'd say my bot has a bug, watch top right at turn 63: http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=4438407 2010-09-11T17:29:05 but the first turn you have 3 seconds 2010-09-11T17:29:11 hrmm 2010-09-11T17:29:12 so it should work the first turn if you try 2010-09-11T17:29:32 i calculate distance between fleets and planets several times each turn and it seems ok even on contest machine 2010-09-11T17:29:36 *** mega1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T17:29:45 deepblue: Yeah, but there's more room for creativity before you take the first step. (As your "wait a turn" strategy shows.) 2010-09-11T17:29:52 dolphin278: This is for all planets between each other 2010-09-11T17:30:00 would be an optimazation to work out a full map the first turn instead of doing it 20 times every turn 2010-09-11T17:30:15 *** mega1 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-09-11T17:30:16 right now - no, but one of my version used that, and it's work ok 2010-09-11T17:30:22 damn, that hsBot is strong 2010-09-11T17:30:28 greghaynes: shows us your map code if you like. No way it should take that long. 2010-09-11T17:30:28 coventry it's more a bug than a feature :D 2010-09-11T17:31:05 deepblue: Ha ha. 2010-09-11T17:31:48 *** canihazbacon has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T17:32:04 hi 2010-09-11T17:32:37 coventry`: relevant code: http://pastebin.com/AwXum2b0 2010-09-11T17:32:39 what, i issued an order with -4 ships? 2010-09-11T17:32:51 Or anyone else who wants to check it out 2010-09-11T17:34:31 storms are awesome 2010-09-11T17:34:46 storms? 2010-09-11T17:35:04 i guess new submissions aren't showing up fast yet :P 2010-09-11T17:35:23 holy shit that was loud 2010-09-11T17:35:54 I kinda wish the tutorial didn't suggest people submit the starter bot 2010-09-11T17:35:57 So many pointless wins 2010-09-11T17:36:11 jmcarthur: you should have seen the lightning storm we had at a music festival i was at over nye 2010-09-11T17:36:25 each time there was lightning there was multiple strikes and the entire sky was lighting up 2010-09-11T17:36:26 jmcarthur: Heh, just started storming here, you're not in FL are you? 2010-09-11T17:36:27 *** deepblue has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-11T17:36:44 then to top it off I saw a meteor for the first time that night, didn;t work out what it was till the next day 2010-09-11T17:36:46 *** deepblue has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T17:36:55 Wow, just realized after writing all my hashing code that I need to hash two doubles rather than integers :/ 2010-09-11T17:37:01 greghaynes: Are you sure that code is taking over a second? Did you profile it? What hardware are you running it on? A droid? 2010-09-11T17:37:04 bad WLAN :/ 2010-09-11T17:37:15 oh man...I think I know what I did wrong 2010-09-11T17:37:17 * greghaynes facepalms 2010-09-11T17:37:29 ermau: alabama 2010-09-11T17:37:42 Im calling that method in ParseGameState...so its per line 2010-09-11T17:37:43 hehe 2010-09-11T17:37:44 Ah 2010-09-11T17:37:48 antimatroid1: nye? 2010-09-11T17:38:12 greghaynes: Ah, that could be it. :-) 2010-09-11T17:38:33 That would have been pretty cool if it worked still ;) 2010-09-11T17:38:57 i was sitting out on the back porch while it was raining and then it got all awesome and then it got all scary 2010-09-11T17:38:58 :) 2010-09-11T17:39:05 new years eve :P 2010-09-11T17:39:12 so i came back inside 2010-09-11T17:39:24 *** wvdschel has quit IRC (Quit: ragequit) 2010-09-11T17:39:28 it's still awesome. it's just distracting :P 2010-09-11T17:39:30 and wet 2010-09-11T17:39:31 greghaynes: There are a lot of function calls in that code. It's one of the drawbacks of the python starter kit. It appears to have been written by a Java/C++ refugee. 2010-09-11T17:39:52 greghaynes: (Function calls are relatively expensive in python.) 2010-09-11T17:39:58 that's sad 2010-09-11T17:40:13 Yeaa, ive noticed. Its on my to-do list to fix 2010-09-11T17:40:15 coventry`: heh, so does the C# kit 2010-09-11T17:40:26 "screw decomposition" - python 2010-09-11T17:40:34 greghaynes: there was a guy in here that updated the python starters pagacke some hours aga... 2010-09-11T17:40:39 eh, they just like their hash tables 2010-09-11T17:40:46 JensT1: Yeah, ulope, I think. 2010-09-11T17:40:55 * ermau has an updated C# kit ready to go if the Mono version gets updated 2010-09-11T17:41:10 *** dolphin278 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-11T17:41:19 JensT1: http://github.com/ulope/planetwars-python-kit 2010-09-11T17:41:30 i'm already operating at the time limit of 1 second and that with raw C power 2010-09-11T17:41:37 coventry`: yes although its a complete rewrite not an update ;) 2010-09-11T17:42:18 deepblue: some of the tactics your bot uses are very impressive. 2010-09-11T17:42:30 ah sorry meant to say that to JensT1, not coventry` 2010-09-11T17:42:33 And youre deepblue, so you must REALLY be doing some computations 2010-09-11T17:42:40 lol :D 2010-09-11T17:42:46 it does 2010-09-11T17:42:58 i'm sleep deprived my whole last night went into it 2010-09-11T17:43:08 deepblue: e.g. http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284238654|a1k0n-0.2|deepblue 2010-09-11T17:43:48 hehe I think not possible to kill a1k0n faster than that ;) 2010-09-11T17:43:58 deepblue: If you're CPU-constrained, you probably want to test your code on the server itself. It is probably substantially slower than the hardware you're running on with the tcpserver. 2010-09-11T17:44:10 yeah 2010-09-11T17:44:12 i now 2010-09-11T17:44:18 it adapts itself though 2010-09-11T17:44:22 so I'm optimistic 2010-09-11T17:44:28 ok 2010-09-11T17:44:35 I'll upload it now and see what happens 2010-09-11T17:44:45 http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284239914|copybot|drewrobb0.2 2010-09-11T17:44:53 hahaha copybot 2010-09-11T17:44:58 *** staiii has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T17:45:02 *** zaph has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T17:45:21 grr, there's another negative ships order 2010-09-11T17:45:28 *** staiii has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2010-09-11T17:45:37 rofl 2010-09-11T17:45:42 great idea the copybot 2010-09-11T17:45:51 the only way that can happen is if i screw up the planets counting 2010-09-11T17:46:12 Anyone have any hints on how to hash two doubles? 2010-09-11T17:47:06 make integers out of them and has those? 2010-09-11T17:47:15 *** Zeiris has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T17:47:39 *** kay has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T17:47:50 What's the best way to make them into integers w/o losing too much info? The doubles correspond to the positions of the planets so I don't want two close planets to be treated as the same one. 2010-09-11T17:48:20 multiply by 100 2010-09-11T17:48:28 ^^ 2010-09-11T17:48:31 Then just cast to ints? 2010-09-11T17:48:41 jop 2010-09-11T17:48:47 i mean yes 2010-09-11T17:48:52 alright 2010-09-11T17:48:54 well, since copybot isn't my real submission, i don't have to worry about this, but still, that means the framework i wrote is slightly bad 2010-09-11T17:49:26 i'm glad nobody has to reuse my code 2010-09-11T17:49:30 *** dolphin278 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T17:50:22 website needs a kick again 2010-09-11T17:52:38 yep 2010-09-11T17:52:44 *** Umsturz has quit IRC (Quit: Umsturz) 2010-09-11T17:54:26 deepblue: i'm glad to see that a search bot is doing well 2010-09-11T17:54:33 since that is kind of what i'm trying too 2010-09-11T17:55:01 :) 2010-09-11T17:55:14 i'm astounded that my bot ever beats a bot that can search 2010-09-11T17:55:16 jmcarthur: i intend to pants you guys searching 2010-09-11T17:55:19 Oh, thanks for the suggestion about my hash table, seems to be working 2010-09-11T17:55:29 The more improvements in my bot i made, the worse is result... :) Kind of "over-educated". 2010-09-11T17:55:37 although it depends what counts as searching 2010-09-11T17:55:50 dolphin I have/had the same problem 2010-09-11T17:56:19 antimatroid1: yeah mine is a search bot in a very nontraditional sense, i think 2010-09-11T17:56:29 i hope it does well 2010-09-11T17:56:32 Do both players make their moves at the same time? 2010-09-11T17:56:32 hi a1k0n, you bot is a fun opponent 2010-09-11T17:56:36 javagamer_Cpp: yes 2010-09-11T17:56:42 k 2010-09-11T17:56:49 it's pretty dumb, you should always be able to beat it. :) 2010-09-11T17:57:06 hehe 2010-09-11T17:57:10 i haven't really got started on a real bot yet 2010-09-11T17:57:13 maybe tonight 2010-09-11T17:57:18 awesome 2010-09-11T17:57:23 looking forward to it :) 2010-09-11T17:58:01 it'll be funny if a1k0n's dumb bot ends up being better than his "real" bot 2010-09-11T17:58:17 yea ) 2010-09-11T17:58:31 http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284241614|McLeopold|deepblue 2010-09-11T17:58:39 see mine still has bugs 2010-09-11T17:59:06 too defensive 2010-09-11T17:59:21 well it's not supposed to sit there and do nothing :D 2010-09-11T18:00:15 the online visualizer looks better than the official "PlayGame.jar" -- is there a way I can switch? :-) 2010-09-11T18:00:25 you mean ShowGame 2010-09-11T18:00:25 if my profile isn't even recognising me uploading something a while ago, is that because it fucked it up or because it's just not even showing that yet? 2010-09-11T18:00:33 dstufft: yes, I was about to correct. 2010-09-11T18:00:59 i think the official page is kind of broken right now 2010-09-11T18:01:08 AJC: you would need to download and run the javascript against the output of playgame.jar 2010-09-11T18:01:15 it hangs every several minutes 2010-09-11T18:01:31 Cool, the canvas player works on my Android phone , sweet 2010-09-11T18:01:51 Yup, was watching some replays on my iPhone at Applebees last night lol 2010-09-11T18:02:17 Uploaded a bot before I left, had to see how it did 2010-09-11T18:03:24 *** ippeb24 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T18:03:39 * javagamer_Cpp facepalms. 2010-09-11T18:04:01 I spent a while trying to find why the last 3 things I output here were coming out wrong, here's my code: http://codepad.org/fWtTVdNV 2010-09-11T18:04:14 ermau: That's very cool! 2010-09-11T18:04:21 Perhaps the stupidest mistake I've made this contest 2010-09-11T18:04:35 Zannick: oh, I thought it was Java online too. wasn't it originally? 2010-09-11T18:04:47 yes, originally 2010-09-11T18:04:48 danielvf: Well, <3 to whoever wrote the canvas version 2010-09-11T18:04:52 recently switched to canvas 2010-09-11T18:05:00 * danielvf wrote it 2010-09-11T18:05:00 Zannick: ah, I missed that part. looks sexy. 2010-09-11T18:05:04 danielvf: Oh, lol 2010-09-11T18:05:10 ermau: :P 2010-09-11T18:05:29 danielvf: Well good job, it's not perfectly smooth on the iPhone 4, but much faster than the java version on my desktop so GJ 2010-09-11T18:05:43 Now if it wouldn't pause all the time ;) 2010-09-11T18:06:21 gzip compression now enabled on the benzedrine.cx canvas pages 2010-09-11T18:06:47 jmcarthur : are the rankings still looking fair? I find it hard to believe I am still in 10th spot 2010-09-11T18:06:57 Oooh, should the new version run on my ancient iPod Touch like in the last contest? If so danielvf is the greatest person ever. 2010-09-11T18:06:59 zaph: not at the moment 2010-09-11T18:07:08 it will get better once there aren't so many bots uploaded at once 2010-09-11T18:07:17 dhartmei: great 2010-09-11T18:07:21 i do think they need to run the tournament for longer 2010-09-11T18:07:22 \msg contestbot more 2010-09-11T18:07:42 zaph: I'm having trouble with my placing as well. Can't believe it 2010-09-11T18:07:42 zaph: i can only tell that with any certainty if danielvf gives me another copy of ratings.txt 2010-09-11T18:08:34 danielvf: that's a request if you have the time :) 2010-09-11T18:09:01 jmcarthur: Will be a few. :D 2010-09-11T18:09:05 kk 2010-09-11T18:09:10 Jmcarthur I would love a copy too 2010-09-11T18:09:47 zaph: you have played quite a few games now. i'd say your position is probably deserved based on that 2010-09-11T18:10:07 hey cool bug making the username disappear like that http://ai-contest.com/profile_games.php?user_id=3894 2010-09-11T18:11:22 True, it is probably the random schedule that is saving me too - not fighting my peers 2010-09-11T18:12:06 if that's true then the adjusted should at least say something useful about it 2010-09-11T18:12:12 quality of php scripts aren't top level :) 2010-09-11T18:12:24 what php scripts are ever top level quality? 2010-09-11T18:12:25 Makes me not want to upload new code and lose my ranking 2010-09-11T18:12:52 I mean that it's low 2010-09-11T18:13:10 i got that :P 2010-09-11T18:13:20 zaph: the later you upload new bot, the later you will know it's quality tho 2010-09-11T18:13:27 i was making a remark about php coders 2010-09-11T18:13:33 one that is probably unfair 2010-09-11T18:14:18 but not altogether untrue :p 2010-09-11T18:14:27 country profiles doesn't work either http://ai-contest.com/country_profile.php?country_id=52 2010-09-11T18:14:39 *** Kastra has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2010-09-11T18:14:54 *** Theobon has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-11T18:16:32 oh, it looks like contest_countries table doesn't exist 2010-09-11T18:16:48 Can you say, what the most common crash reason? negative fleet size? timeout? what else? 2010-09-11T18:17:47 dolphin278, well 100% of the crashes involve submitting a bot in the first place 2010-09-11T18:17:50 *** ippeb24 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-11T18:19:57 dolphin278: what do you mean with 'crash' because neither negative fleet nor timeout reports "player x crashed" afaik 2010-09-11T18:21:50 i am investigating my bot crashes on contest server, not my local machine, and since i doesn't have any access to my bot logs, i am trying to remember all possible reasons of crash. 2010-09-11T18:22:09 *** mistabell has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-11T18:23:05 *** ihodes has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T18:24:51 hmm, trying to run the tcp thing but I just keep getting execv: failed 2010-09-11T18:25:01 Jmcarthur , the rankings look ok. Daniel is in 5th after about 24hrs - hasn't lost a game, that feels believable 2010-09-11T18:25:01 dolphin278: are you talking about actually crashing or just doing something invalid 2010-09-11T18:25:40 dolphin278: your ships suddently disappearing is usually not crash but getting dropped if that is the case with you 2010-09-11T18:26:01 i am talking about games, where i have more that 3/4 of map, and game suddently stops at turn, say 43, and i am lose :) 2010-09-11T18:26:07 if i send two fleets from a to b in the same tick, will they get merged into one on the server? 2010-09-11T18:27:30 RobinB: ideally 2010-09-11T18:27:35 RobinB: that is a ticket 2010-09-11T18:27:53 *** permutatie has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-11T18:28:01 *** zaph has quit IRC (Quit: Bye) 2010-09-11T18:28:08 I've tried both using quotes and trying to wrap the command in a script.. just fails every time 2010-09-11T18:28:08 dolphin278: some things that cause the game to end are listed here: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/wiki/GameSpecification#Endgame_Conditions 2010-09-11T18:28:20 dolphin278: that list may be incomplete, or even incorrect in some parts 2010-09-11T18:28:42 RobinB: eventually, that change is not in yet 2010-09-11T18:28:49 ermau: "./command" ? 2010-09-11T18:28:49 thanks 2010-09-11T18:29:03 jmcarthur: thank you 2010-09-11T18:29:11 jmcarthur: Well, the command is "mono bin/Debug/MyBot.exe" 2010-09-11T18:29:37 ermau: ah, n/m then 2010-09-11T18:29:40 make a MyBot.bat script. which contains that line. then run tcp with just "MyBot.bat" as argument 2010-09-11T18:30:18 I did that with a bash script already 2010-09-11T18:30:20 Same thing 2010-09-11T18:30:29 (this is OSX, not Windows) 2010-09-11T18:30:33 *** airhorns has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-09-11T18:30:37 well, what's the script called? 2010-09-11T18:30:38 i'm about to link to the specification i wrote up in the forums for more review 2010-09-11T18:30:55 can you run it manually on the shell? without any arguments? 2010-09-11T18:31:08 dhartmei: mybot 2010-09-11T18:31:09 *** zaph has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T18:31:10 dhartmei: Yes 2010-09-11T18:31:14 did you set execute permissions? chmod a+x mybot 2010-09-11T18:31:23 I set +x 2010-09-11T18:31:24 ./mybot yay, the official server does have enough power :) 2010-09-11T18:32:35 http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284241614|McLeopold|deepblue 2010-09-11T18:32:37 dhartmei: Not sure 2010-09-11T18:32:39 what happens here ? 2010-09-11T18:32:46 why is deepblue so passive in that round ? 2010-09-11T18:32:53 bug! 2010-09-11T18:32:57 *** evgenius has left #aichallenge 2010-09-11T18:33:01 sadly 2010-09-11T18:33:02 dhartmei: Shouldn't simply "mono app.exe" work as the argument? 2010-09-11T18:33:07 what kind of bug ? 2010-09-11T18:33:15 We really need to show why a game ended. I cannot believe the #1 bot did an illegal move on the first turn, along with his opponent - I have seen other cases of this too. 2010-09-11T18:33:19 ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=4434541 2010-09-11T18:33:19 deepblue: search bot fail on the official server? :( 2010-09-11T18:33:23 no, it only runs execv() with a single argument (the binary name) 2010-09-11T18:33:32 ah 2010-09-11T18:33:43 http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=4439859 2010-09-11T18:33:45 works 2010-09-11T18:33:47 zaph: illegal move ? 2010-09-11T18:34:08 http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284243114|copybot|mharris717 2010-09-11T18:34:10 dhartmei: Would I need anything more than just "mono app.exe" (sans quotes) in the script? 2010-09-11T18:34:11 hahaha 2010-09-11T18:34:30 http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=527 2010-09-11T18:34:43 #!/bin/sh as the first line, then the rest on the second 2010-09-11T18:34:45 the copybot is amusing 2010-09-11T18:35:03 ha 2010-09-11T18:35:05 copybot loves to show you problems with your bot 2010-09-11T18:35:07 copybot is winning :) 2010-09-11T18:35:12 dhartmei: erm.. *whistles* 2010-09-11T18:35:21 * ermau has never needed a shebang line before 2010-09-11T18:35:50 http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284242636|copybot|deepblue 2010-09-11T18:35:57 bartwe , on a bot with no record of failure, and its opponent did too? I doubt it, I think thee is a bug or they were not given any CPU time by the machine 2010-09-11T18:36:03 dhartmei: Thanks 2010-09-11T18:36:07 benzedrine needs a bit of elo buffering for people with a single game in the top 10 2010-09-11T18:36:51 I want to play McLeopold again :) 2010-09-11T18:36:58 anyone else now locked out of logging in to website? 2010-09-11T18:37:17 antimatroid1: i can log in 2010-09-11T18:37:21 revermind 2010-09-11T18:37:28 apparently i can type a password wrong twice 2010-09-11T18:37:31 heh 2010-09-11T18:37:39 wait, maybe not 2010-09-11T18:37:41 werid 2010-09-11T18:37:44 deepblue: what did you think of http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284241949|deepblue|bartwe 2010-09-11T18:38:00 i'm still not sure how to beat you in that one 2010-09-11T18:38:32 bartwe, you're doing great defense 2010-09-11T18:39:07 nah, its attack on a low defense target. ie. the just lost planet, and immediatly regained planet 2010-09-11T18:39:14 http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284244040|copybot|mharris717 2010-09-11T18:39:40 hahaha 2500 ships on one planet 2010-09-11T18:39:45 ah i see 2010-09-11T18:39:51 lol copybot 2010-09-11T18:40:15 it loses most of its games, but its wins are entertaining 2010-09-11T18:40:30 deepblue: so your strength is in delaying actions into next phases ? 2010-09-11T18:40:31 *** hellovoid has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T18:41:00 any word on ruby support yet? 2010-09-11T18:41:00 so far my only strength is using errors of the opponent I think 2010-09-11T18:41:11 *** zaph has quit IRC (Quit: Bye) 2010-09-11T18:41:14 ok guys 2010-09-11T18:41:17 I have to head out 2010-09-11T18:41:23 good night 2010-09-11T18:41:26 first dinner than machete :D 2010-09-11T18:41:28 me too, good night 2010-09-11T18:41:31 * ermau starts a new bot from scratch 2010-09-11T18:41:39 later 2010-09-11T18:41:43 * Zannick starts in scratch from c 2010-09-11T18:41:46 *** deepblue has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-11T18:41:52 er, from scratch, in c 2010-09-11T18:41:56 *** dhartmei has quit IRC (Quit: bbl) 2010-09-11T18:42:03 * dolphin278 starting bot v4 2010-09-11T18:42:43 * jmcarthur still hasn't finished bot v1 2010-09-11T18:42:52 :) 2010-09-11T18:43:07 still waiting for a round against copy bot 2010-09-11T18:43:09 even if i had it wouldn't run on the server as is 2010-09-11T18:43:22 it requires features from a newer version of ghc 2010-09-11T18:43:45 i will either have to change it a lot or finally get binaries allowed 2010-09-11T18:43:58 Yeah, most things take me so much longer to do with such an ancient version of Mono 2010-09-11T18:44:09 LINQ makes finding things absurdly easier 2010-09-11T18:44:12 http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284244073|bartwe|drewrobb0.3 wooo insane 2010-09-11T18:44:30 i'm mainly using features that give me greater speed 2010-09-11T18:44:30 almost lost it just before the last round, still won 2010-09-11T18:44:54 ermau: linq is great, at loads of small allocs 2010-09-11T18:45:04 ermau: in things like this i move back to arrays 2010-09-11T18:45:19 * ermau can't imagine needing a full second for any strategy he can come up with 2010-09-11T18:45:37 enough strategies that require all the time in the universe 2010-09-11T18:45:56 full red/black tree of all possible moves (ie. loads) 2010-09-11T18:46:00 *** Scrap has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-11T18:46:18 i think close to 1000000 possible moves per timestep are possible 2010-09-11T18:46:37 Code review needed on home page text- http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/source/branch?spec=issue128&branch=%2Fbranches%2F118-home-page-improvements%2F 2010-09-11T18:46:43 * jmcarthur looks 2010-09-11T18:47:05 *** mistabell has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T18:47:15 bartwe: very small subset of this whole amount makes any sense, so it can be easily narrowed. 2010-09-11T18:47:26 bartwe: Yeah, I don't have any fanciful strategies or algorithms that require anything like that 2010-09-11T18:47:28 danielvf: good to go 2010-09-11T18:47:44 bartwe: Way to go 2010-09-11T18:47:48 jmcarthur: Thanks 2010-09-11T18:48:21 dolphin278: true 2010-09-11T18:48:51 The new viz plays pretty smooth on my iPhone. cool stuff 2010-09-11T18:51:53 i'm going to wait for some more feedback on the spec and then make a web page for it tonight 2010-09-11T18:52:10 *** JensT1 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-09-11T18:53:06 mistabell: Its kind of broken on the ipad unfortunately... Seems the ipad safari has a few more bugs 2010-09-11T18:54:10 so any chance of google throwing some more computing power at this 2010-09-11T18:54:52 google doesn't run the contest 2010-09-11T18:54:53 http://www.thecutekid.com/parent-center/contests/regis-kelly-2010-baby-contest-coming-soon/ 2010-09-11T18:55:09 Wha? 2010-09-11T18:55:13 are they not sponsoring it? 2010-09-11T18:55:17 arg amstan didn't you turn that off yet? 2010-09-11T18:55:20 stupid bot 2010-09-11T18:55:29 they're sponsoring it, but i have no idea what that means 2010-09-11T18:56:10 Someone said it was mostly the name they're sponsoring... 2010-09-11T18:56:20 lmao 2010-09-11T18:56:34 contestbot: config supybot.plugins.google.searchSnarfer 2010-09-11T18:56:34 amstan: Global: False; #aichallenge: False 2010-09-11T18:56:35 Zannick would be great if G supports contest with infrastructure 2010-09-11T18:56:37 they should sponsor some hardware, or at least give them access to x comps 2010-09-11T18:56:39 google something 2010-09-11T18:56:44 @yay 2010-09-11T18:56:44 Double rainbow all the way! 2010-09-11T18:56:58 lol 2010-09-11T18:57:23 Is this always going to just be 2 players or 4 like the java viewer suggests? 2010-09-11T18:57:23 dolphin278: yes, and j3camero should talk to his contacts at google for that 2010-09-11T18:57:28 and even if they just gave the servers to the university after the contest as a donation 2010-09-11T18:57:41 i cannot do anything myself 2010-09-11T18:58:09 ermau: it was simply coded to be easy to adapt for four, but there are no particular plans 2010-09-11T18:58:14 ermau: two for now 2010-09-11T18:58:18 dinner time! 2010-09-11T19:00:42 *** delt0r_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T19:01:30 http://pastebin.com/HPGqHMuy ooo getting better 2010-09-11T19:02:58 how do you run it? 2010-09-11T19:03:38 quick question. The submission (java in this case) is just a zip of the *source files* or is it source + jar ? 2010-09-11T19:03:45 source 2010-09-11T19:03:50 server compiles 2010-09-11T19:03:59 danielvf: makes sense --thanks 2010-09-11T19:04:00 theres a github thing dstufft made 2010-09-11T19:04:08 a gist 2010-09-11T19:04:15 lmao 2010-09-11T19:04:22 And i need to include Fleet etc right 2010-09-11T19:04:31 http://gist.github.com/574904 test.py <- 2010-09-11T19:04:51 only really works for testing python bots and java bots 2010-09-11T19:05:00 *** hellovoid has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-11T19:05:01 adding other languages would be easy though 2010-09-11T19:05:16 thanks 2010-09-11T19:05:22 there's a sh script on the forum that tests a batch 2010-09-11T19:05:33 by default that will test against all 100 maps Naktibalda 2010-09-11T19:05:46 all the bots listed in bots.json against bots.json + examples.json 2010-09-11T19:05:50 it takes a long time 2010-09-11T19:06:00 http://pastebin.com/Lvq0kWRg 2010-09-11T19:06:23 adding a [:X] to the end of line 51 (replacing X with an integer) will let you limit the number of maps 2010-09-11T19:08:08 need like a data center that splits it up to 100 comps and then rent it out to us 2010-09-11T19:08:33 make a change, run 3000 games instant and see how you did 2010-09-11T19:08:42 Cyndre: i messed around a little running multiple maps at the same time 2010-09-11T19:08:50 yeah... then run a genetic algorithm over that. breed some super bots 2010-09-11T19:08:55 lmao 2010-09-11T19:08:57 Cyndre: I have access to about 1200 nodes :D 2010-09-11T19:09:12 however i didn't really think when i was messing around 2010-09-11T19:09:19 and i just spawned all the processes 2010-09-11T19:09:25 then went back later and checked on the results 2010-09-11T19:09:33 even if you just assigned a node to a map and ran each bot on it 2010-09-11T19:09:42 my poor computer ground to a halt running like 600 instances of the java server 2010-09-11T19:09:46 *** JensT1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T19:09:47 lmao 2010-09-11T19:10:38 i still want to make it run multiple maps in parallel 2010-09-11T19:10:43 but only 5 or so at a time 2010-09-11T19:10:47 not 600 D: 2010-09-11T19:11:41 Anyone here writing their bot in C#? 2010-09-11T19:11:45 Yes 2010-09-11T19:12:07 Mine keeps failing. 2010-09-11T19:12:13 To compile? 2010-09-11T19:12:16 It's not sending out any fleets. 2010-09-11T19:12:19 D: 2010-09-11T19:12:26 Has nothing to do with C# 2010-09-11T19:12:41 Has everything to do with the fact that i'm shit with C# :D 2010-09-11T19:12:45 Keep in mind, it's Mono 1.2.6, only use C# and .NET 2.0 features 2010-09-11T19:12:52 *** ihodes has quit IRC (Quit: ihodes) 2010-09-11T19:13:04 ermau, is stdout flushed at the end of the IssueOrder function? 2010-09-11T19:13:13 dstufft: I got this error http://gist.github.com/575653 2010-09-11T19:13:34 http://pastebin.com/wcDdxGpM that sucks 2010-09-11T19:13:53 Queue29: It is in the starter kit, yeah. 2010-09-11T19:13:59 td: You used the starter kit, right? 2010-09-11T19:14:04 Naktibalda: no one is winning, something is happened, um se 2010-09-11T19:14:05 sec 2010-09-11T19:14:08 ermau: yeah 2010-09-11T19:14:42 * ermau shrugs 2010-09-11T19:14:48 Been working for me 2010-09-11T19:14:59 Naktibalda: line 87, add print stderr 2010-09-11T19:15:06 Set the timeouts insanely high locally and use a debugger 2010-09-11T19:15:11 and tell me the output 2010-09-11T19:15:21 *** test has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T19:15:58 below communicate() ? 2010-09-11T19:16:02 yea 2010-09-11T19:16:09 *** AJC has left #aichallenge 2010-09-11T19:16:26 (the script isn't finished really, it works, but theres not a lot of error checking etc) 2010-09-11T19:16:51 my bot crashed 2010-09-11T19:17:02 *** dmj111 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-09-11T19:17:22 err, player 1, is it my or example? 2010-09-11T19:17:44 yea, normally if you get the error about _turns being used before init it means that the server never found "Player 1/2 Wins!" 2010-09-11T19:17:44 should be mine :) 2010-09-11T19:17:47 player 1 is you 2010-09-11T19:19:51 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T19:19:59 *** Appleman1234 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T19:21:00 somehow it adds a lot of slashes to command 2010-09-11T19:21:02 http://gist.github.com/575661 2010-09-11T19:21:12 td: Make sure you're not using "log.txt" as your output, that gets overwritten. Change it to "mylog.txt" and review it. 2010-09-11T19:21:28 Naktibalda: oh 2010-09-11T19:21:42 "location": ["TutorialBot.php"] 2010-09-11T19:21:44 do that 2010-09-11T19:21:50 jmcarthur: have you considered using amazon AWS to scale your "hardware"? 2010-09-11T19:22:23 it works now, thanks 2010-09-11T19:22:55 I ran a pretty cpu intensive site/app once upon a time, and I ran it on quite modest hardware that didn't scale to 400+ users, so I simply loaded up a half decent amazon vps to ease the load. worked pretty well. 2010-09-11T19:22:56 *** alex791 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T19:23:05 Naktibalda: the gist is public, so you should be able to add your modifications (to add the php language) 2010-09-11T19:23:08 i think anyways 2010-09-11T19:23:18 if not paste them and i'll add them in if you want to share 2010-09-11T19:23:24 hmm 2010-09-11T19:23:33 *** alex79 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-09-11T19:24:05 What kind of sandboxing does ai-challenge have? I mean you are running untrusted code that can do anything 2010-09-11T19:24:06 I will 2010-09-11T19:24:23 Bobng: the bot's are chrooted in a directory 2010-09-11T19:24:33 I think it's using qemu 2010-09-11T19:24:34 they planed to run each one in their own vm 2010-09-11T19:24:42 haha 2010-09-11T19:24:48 but I think that's to much overhead 2010-09-11T19:24:50 each in their own vm would be expensive 2010-09-11T19:24:58 *** Zaphus has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T19:24:59 *** Theobon has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T19:25:01 the code is in place Bobng 2010-09-11T19:25:18 Really? I will take a look at the git 2010-09-11T19:25:24 *** caytchen has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T19:25:35 but it uses ssh to connect to each bot, so starting vm's on different machines could scale if you have enought machines 2010-09-11T19:25:52 not that expensive really, you get a VM solution with snapshots, boot up the VM, take a snapshot, deploy submission, compile, run it, get results, rollback, repeat minus the bootup 2010-09-11T19:26:00 whats the github url again? 2010-09-11T19:26:23 vm never get's shutdown, just constantly get's rolled back to a known good configuration 2010-09-11T19:26:30 Bobng: for what? 2010-09-11T19:26:32 a1k0n: Yikes. 2010-09-11T19:26:36 for the site/backend. 2010-09-11T19:26:41 it's not github 2010-09-11T19:26:42 it's svn 2010-09-11T19:26:44 on google code 2010-09-11T19:28:03 using qemu it would be 2010-09-11T19:28:06 I think 2010-09-11T19:28:22 http://www.google.com/codesearch/p?hl=en#x1_S7f08B_U/trunk/planet_wars/backend/vm_sadbox.py&q=vm%20package:http://ai-contest\.googlecode\.com&sa=N&cd=1&ct=rc 2010-09-11T19:28:33 vm_sadbox 2010-09-11T19:28:36 lol 2010-09-11T19:28:37 theres that sadbox again :-) 2010-09-11T19:29:18 but the current tournament manager uses user_sadbox 2010-09-11T19:29:30 http://www.google.com/codesearch/p?hl=en#x1_S7f08B_U/trunk/planet_wars/backend/user_sadbox.py&q=sadbox%20package:http://ai-contest\.googlecode\.com&sa=N&cd=2&ct=rc 2010-09-11T19:29:39 Bobng: it's not my hardware. i'm not even an organizer 2010-09-11T19:29:50 i'm just a contributor 2010-09-11T19:30:10 ahh 2010-09-11T19:30:26 dstufft: http://pastebin.com/haLwQe0v that's it :) 2010-09-11T19:30:29 Bobng: we aren't using qemu. there's just some code to do it 2010-09-11T19:30:29 anyone know if the scheduler changes got reviewed and approved ? 2010-09-11T19:30:39 Bobng: right now it's... not quite as secure as it should be 2010-09-11T19:30:45 Zaphus: not that i know of yet 2010-09-11T19:30:52 Zaphus: there is a patch already? 2010-09-11T19:31:01 if there is i'll take a look 2010-09-11T19:31:10 *** mistabell has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-11T19:31:14 jmcarthur: I thought so, although I want to take a look at it too - where do I go ? 2010-09-11T19:31:16 issue 68 2010-09-11T19:31:44 Zaphus: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/detail?id=68 2010-09-11T19:31:45 jmcarthur: yeah, your users can still read and write outside their own dir? 2010-09-11T19:31:55 you should just perform a chroot command before starting them 2010-09-11T19:31:58 JensT1: i doubt that 2010-09-11T19:32:02 can they really? 2010-09-11T19:32:07 would make it more secure 2010-09-11T19:32:22 yeah chroot would be good, but i wasn't aware that they could do that anyway 2010-09-11T19:32:33 i'm not familiar with the sandbox, really 2010-09-11T19:32:35 well, i don't see any code to disallow them 2010-09-11T19:32:48 wow - a graph now to - thats awsome 2010-09-11T19:33:01 http://www.google.com/codesearch/p?hl=en#x1_S7f08B_U/trunk/planet_wars/backend/compile_anything.py&q=vm%20package:http://ai-contest%5C.googlecode%5C.com&d=3 2010-09-11T19:33:08 Surely you can compile python to .pyc 2010-09-11T19:33:19 at the moment it just chmods it. 2010-09-11T19:33:49 Zaphus: that's too big a patch for me to eyeball. i'd have to test is and i don't have a test server set up 2010-09-11T19:34:00 @tell j3camero if you get a chance, please look over issues 68 and 96. they are patches people keep asking to have but need admins to approve/test 2010-09-11T19:34:03 Zaphus: i could make a branch for it so it's easy to merge in later though, if you'd like 2010-09-11T19:34:12 contestbot: @tell j3camero if you get a chance, please look over issues 68 and 96. they are patches people keep asking to have but need admins to approve/test 2010-09-11T19:34:13 Zannick: Error: "@tell" is not a valid command. 2010-09-11T19:34:17 Zannick: we committers can approve patches now 2010-09-11T19:34:30 not these patches 2010-09-11T19:34:30 *** delt0r___ has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T19:34:33 jmcarthur: Just reading the patch myself (I didnt write it) - will add some comments 2010-09-11T19:34:56 Zannick: the command is "later tell" for some reason 2010-09-11T19:34:58 one will break the website if the appropriate column isn't added to the table 2010-09-11T19:35:01 Zannick: later tell 2010-09-11T19:35:07 contestbot: later tell j3camero if you get a chance, please look over issues 68 and 96. they are patches people keep asking to have but need admins to approve/test 2010-09-11T19:35:07 Zannick: The operation succeeded. 2010-09-11T19:35:12 thanks 2010-09-11T19:35:21 true we can't get them running 2010-09-11T19:35:53 either way, i certainly can't approve this one 2010-09-11T19:35:55 jmcarthur: cant find any code to disallow them to read any public readable files on the server outside their dir 2010-09-11T19:35:57 Zannick: i guess contestbot appreciates your kindness. 2010-09-11T19:36:20 they do get disallowed from using the network using iptables 2010-09-11T19:36:27 a simple chroot would be more secure 2010-09-11T19:36:33 *** delt0r_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2010-09-11T19:36:45 *** gilaniali has quit IRC (Quit: gilaniali) 2010-09-11T19:36:47 not fully secure, a good hacker can break out of it, but at least some more secure 2010-09-11T19:37:00 even a script kidie I think 2010-09-11T19:37:07 JensT1: the whole thing sucks 2010-09-11T19:37:08 Definitely a script kiddie 2010-09-11T19:37:18 security was my last job of a couple years 2010-09-11T19:37:32 i never did any sandboxing at my job though 2010-09-11T19:37:40 sandboxing is annoying 2010-09-11T19:38:08 there is a 10 processes limit 2010-09-11T19:38:11 i did research related things, but only in brainstorming sessions 2010-09-11T19:38:20 *** phreeza has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T19:38:43 i always went for VM's anytime i sandboxed because i hated trying to lock down a user enough that id let untrusted code run 2010-09-11T19:38:52 I've just read a bit and from what i've seen it should be no big problem to get kvm running on ubuntu 8.04 2010-09-11T19:39:02 ulope: that's what i hoped to hear :) 2010-09-11T19:39:21 ulope: we'd want to try it in a VM first though (so meta) 2010-09-11T19:39:30 actually, kvm would run in a vm, will it? 2010-09-11T19:39:34 *wouldn't 2010-09-11T19:39:43 jmcarthur: should be possible 2010-09-11T19:39:46 and what would be even more awesome inside the VMs there's no reason not to run a more recent version of ubuntu 2010-09-11T19:39:58 jmcarthur: qemu will run but kvm not i think 2010-09-11T19:40:02 or openbsd 2010-09-11T19:40:10 hardened kernels A++ 2010-09-11T19:40:13 I just use virtualbox, 2010-09-11T19:40:17 jmcarthur: Just added a comment, I can't tell if it's a good patch or not - too complex a diff to be sure, would need to see it in the wild ! 2010-09-11T19:40:22 dstufft: that'd be great if we could switch it over in the middle of a contest :\ 2010-09-11T19:40:30 jmcarthur: but I think it has a bug in it anyway 2010-09-11T19:40:36 VBoxManager startvm --type headless testmachine 2010-09-11T19:40:57 yeah virtualbox is great :) 2010-09-11T19:41:08 jmcarthur: suppose it might cause issues with the compiled languages 2010-09-11T19:41:32 http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/detail?id=130 2010-09-11T19:41:43 dstufft: i don't know about openbsd, but freebsd has binary compatibility with linux 2010-09-11T19:41:44 TutorialBot vs RandomBot 99/100 Avg Turns: 198.0 2010-09-11T19:41:46 can someone assign that to me? 2010-09-11T19:42:09 it's not as "hardened," but honestly i'm not sure how much more secure openbsd actually is than freebsd anyway 2010-09-11T19:42:12 example is on 4th on the tcpserver? 2010-09-11T19:42:16 weird 2010-09-11T19:42:27 jmcarthur: to be honest i don't work with compiled languages so i don't if theres issues 2010-09-11T19:42:40 wait, what is the current contest running on? freebsd? 2010-09-11T19:42:43 phreeza: might be new with few lucky games, sth like that 2010-09-11T19:42:43 *** dwchandler has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T19:42:48 Bobng: ubuntu 8.04 2010-09-11T19:42:56 dstufft: shouldn't be an issue 2010-09-11T19:42:59 ah 1 game actually 2010-09-11T19:43:05 that's why we get python 2.5 instead of 2.7 2010-09-11T19:43:07 hehe 2010-09-11T19:43:09 etc 2010-09-11T19:43:14 jmcarthur: but if your running bots in a VM, is there any reason you couldn't put openbsd/freebsd etc on the vm 2010-09-11T19:43:14 I wouldn't switch to freebsd, there is a fresh local root exploit in the wild. 2010-09-11T19:43:19 ghc 6.8.2 instead of 6.12.3 :( 2010-09-11T19:43:20 Is anyone else using the tcp server getting forfeited for timing out? 2010-09-11T19:43:21 *** alex791 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2010-09-11T19:43:25 Bobng: nice 2010-09-11T19:43:42 not nice, my two shellservers got rooted and rm'ed 2010-09-11T19:43:54 by a paying customer -_- 2010-09-11T19:43:55 dstufft: because the bsds don't support the same versions of software as linux? 2010-09-11T19:44:00 does mono even work on the bsds? 2010-09-11T19:44:06 FlagCapper: didn't happen to me yet 2010-09-11T19:44:17 k 2010-09-11T19:44:17 i think ghc on openbsd is still at version 6.6 2010-09-11T19:44:32 basically the situation is even worse than this old version of ubuntu 2010-09-11T19:44:34 mono works on freebsd 2010-09-11T19:44:35 ghc on open recently got an update 2010-09-11T19:44:40 atleast 2010-09-11T19:44:43 dwchandler: to what? 2010-09-11T19:44:48 It was working fine for me yesterday and making a move takes almost no time on my machine :( 2010-09-11T19:44:50 FlagCapper: also, i've lost a bunch of games to you with my insanely sophisticated bot. 2010-09-11T19:44:51 let me check for sure... 2010-09-11T19:45:01 but then it also fails on the example bots /sad 2010-09-11T19:45:22 jmcarthur: 6.12.3 2010-09-11T19:45:22 :( 2010-09-11T19:45:24 *** jaspervdj has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2010-09-11T19:45:27 dwchandler: nice! 2010-09-11T19:45:39 yeah, thanks to kili 2010-09-11T19:45:40 you're sure that's openbsd, not freebsd? 2010-09-11T19:45:43 ah 2010-09-11T19:46:02 jmcarthur: http://openports.se/lang/ghc 2010-09-11T19:46:14 +1 for openbsd then 2010-09-11T19:46:50 dstufft: either way, if we already VM the bots there isn't much reason to use a hardened kernel in the vm 2010-09-11T19:46:57 although you'd still be fine running a linux as a VM too, since the point of aVM is to isolate so you can blow away anything the bot did anyways 2010-09-11T19:47:00 lol 2010-09-11T19:47:03 great minds 2010-09-11T19:47:54 is there a way to run wars localy w/out java, or with java 1.5? 2010-09-11T19:47:58 If we go for kvm the guest should be using a recent kernel (i.e. ubuntu 10.04) sonce thay support virtio out of the box 2010-09-11T19:50:16 dwchandler: you could modify the official python engine. 2010-09-11T19:50:17 ulope: hey, and if we did the compilation on it we could use recent versions of these languages! 2010-09-11T19:50:36 jmcarthur: thats the idea :) 2010-09-11T19:51:47 of course, then we could just use arbitrary binaries anyway 2010-09-11T19:51:55 next step: start two vms, create some pipe between them to relay the stdout stuff, have windows apps run against linux apps. ultimate profit ;p 2010-09-11T19:52:01 how fast do fleets move? 2010-09-11T19:52:16 Bobng: it's not quite like that 2010-09-11T19:52:16 Bobng: one turn a turn i think. 2010-09-11T19:52:16 1 unit of distance per turn 2010-09-11T19:52:26 Bobng: the distance between planets is given in "turns" 2010-09-11T19:52:36 Bobng: euclidean distance rounded up 2010-09-11T19:52:39 it takes ceil(distance(a)(b)) turns to travel between a and b 2010-09-11T19:53:18 aha, I see dhartmei is on it. prolly all I need then :D 2010-09-11T19:53:21 Bobng: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/wiki/GameSpecification 2010-09-11T19:54:21 Bobng: you were the one wanting a spec earlier today right? :) 2010-09-11T19:54:34 yep :) 2010-09-11T19:54:47 You WIN against copybot 2010-09-11T19:54:51 so its possible to plan a trip to a planet beforehand and work out how many turns until the fleet reaches it? 2010-09-11T19:54:52 man that rules. whose is copybot? 2010-09-11T19:55:07 still mine 2010-09-11T19:55:15 nice work. 2010-09-11T19:55:23 heh 2010-09-11T19:55:27 Oh, I see a distance function -_- 2010-09-11T19:55:28 i haven't touched it since tuesday 2010-09-11T19:55:29 does it just add the planet's growth before sending a fleet if it's an opponent's planet? 2010-09-11T19:55:34 there you go 2010-09-11T19:55:44 i somehow didn't notice it 2010-09-11T19:55:55 i only got it on tcp today 2010-09-11T19:56:03 and it always adds the growth 2010-09-11T19:56:08 ah 2010-09-11T19:56:09 so it's not quite a copybot exactly 2010-09-11T19:56:48 hm 2010-09-11T19:56:52 i should remove that 2010-09-11T19:56:55 *** McLeopold has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T19:57:17 cause copybot really fails when it launches multiple fleets from the same planet in one turn 2010-09-11T19:57:49 you mean cuz it doesn't have enough ships? 2010-09-11T19:57:59 like, it sent 57 to a 60-planet in response to you sending 61 to a 60-planet 2010-09-11T19:58:02 yeah 2010-09-11T19:58:25 yeah but it'll just be extra-ineffective without that. dunno. 2010-09-11T19:58:33 except if i do change that, it'll be guaranteed to lose 2010-09-11T19:59:02 well, unless the opponent hits the center for less than its starting ships 2010-09-11T19:59:16 actually it could work, i mean, if your opponent wipes out all the neutral ships and you arrive one turn later with just as many you're probably going to take it 2010-09-11T19:59:29 er, also for just the center 2010-09-11T19:59:37 hm 2010-09-11T19:59:48 but my bot will always respond with extra reinforcements on the following turn so it'll just be taking turns adding ships onto the pile 2010-09-11T20:00:45 oh right, just for the center. duh. 2010-09-11T20:01:10 well, there are some odd cases 2010-09-11T20:01:22 have it just not add the extra ships if the target is neutral, and leave everything else alone 2010-09-11T20:01:37 Okay I am back. Time to clear some issues! 2010-09-11T20:01:44 yey 2010-09-11T20:01:49 I see we have had quite a lot of new contestants joining us. 2010-09-11T20:01:50 we need more games scheduled *whine* 2010-09-11T20:02:09 also new starter packs, and please put version numbers on them 2010-09-11T20:02:10 we have a spec! 2010-09-11T20:02:22 j3camero, welcome back 2010-09-11T20:02:25 Yeah, I want to fix the scheduler so it also plays you against people of like skill. So I am going to basically ignore the IRC channel for a while and not get distracted. I wanna fix these issues. 2010-09-11T20:02:26 j3camero: so did you want to allow me to commit to trunk? cuz there are some merges that should go in 2010-09-11T20:02:26 okay, new copybot is running 2010-09-11T20:02:36 *** gilaniali has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T20:02:41 j3camero: ok. someone submitted a patch for that already but i believe you konw that 2010-09-11T20:03:23 a1k0n: yes, go ahead. The new policy is that any committer can approve a code review (except your own), and potentially contentious ones need to be discussed and approved by some sort of consensus. 2010-09-11T20:03:43 a1k0n: yeah I will start with their patch for the scheduler, and get it working right. 2010-09-11T20:03:49 ok cool. 2010-09-11T20:03:51 :) 2010-09-11T20:03:55 *** RainCT has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T20:04:09 so i need another committer to look at http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/source/branch?spec=issue125&branch=%2Fbranches%2F124-playgame-parsing 2010-09-11T20:04:10 *** Bobng has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2010-09-11T20:04:18 j3camero: Read my comments on that change first (scheduler) 2010-09-11T20:04:24 (though the fix is tested) 2010-09-11T20:04:37 Zaphus: will do. 2010-09-11T20:04:55 *** JensT1 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2010-09-11T20:04:58 *** testuser has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T20:05:20 *** testuser has left #aichallenge 2010-09-11T20:05:36 Okay, right now I am going to focus on (1) getting emails out to the people whose accounts are in limbo due to the mail outage yesterday (2) fixing the scheduler (3) adding a shitload of new starter packs 2010-09-11T20:05:57 j3camero: are you guys sending email out through gmail? 2010-09-11T20:05:58 word. i'm going to once again request that you start putting version numbers on starter packs. 2010-09-11T20:06:24 people are very confused about the two versions out ther ein the wild already 2010-09-11T20:06:29 a1k0n: how should I do that? Just ascending integers in the file name? Like python_starter_package_1.zip? 2010-09-11T20:06:53 date and time would be a start ! maybe a revision history text file ? 2010-09-11T20:06:59 dstufft: we were using gmail for outbound mail until yesterday, when we got blacklisted. 2010-09-11T20:07:00 j3camero: i suggest python_starter_package-1.2.zip, and retroactively calling the last two 1.0 and 1.1. 2010-09-11T20:07:28 a1k0n: cool. Will do. 2010-09-11T20:07:30 my latest revision is PhpStarterpackage-1.1.1.zip :) 2010-09-11T20:07:31 j3camero: ah i saw the gmail.py, I was going to say that you know that gmail silently stops sending email if you send out X number of emails per day 2010-09-11T20:07:34 and also put a blurb on the page saying "Starter packages 1.2 released 10/11/2010; including fixes for x y and z) 2010-09-11T20:07:36 without logging into the web interface 2010-09-11T20:08:33 how do users know when there is a start pack update? 2010-09-11T20:08:40 *starter 2010-09-11T20:08:51 right now, they have no idea, leading to the aforementioned confusion 2010-09-11T20:09:01 yeah 2010-09-11T20:09:07 Ideally we would just avoid releasing any more shitty starter packages. 2010-09-11T20:09:16 well, too bad, it's going to happen again. 2010-09-11T20:09:17 does it really matters? any bot should be improved a lot 2010-09-11T20:09:34 Naktibalda: the ShowGame.jar and PlayGame.jar are really the things that are changing 2010-09-11T20:09:39 Okay, I am off to start fixing issues. 2010-09-11T20:09:42 not the crummy code to start from necessarily 2010-09-11T20:09:44 ah, right 2010-09-11T20:09:46 mostly the problems are with the engine and visualizer that are put in the packs 2010-09-11T20:10:08 also last time a whole bunch of extra maps were put into the starter packs and i had no idea 2010-09-11T20:10:14 maybe you should separate them from starting code? 2010-09-11T20:10:43 Naktibalda: yeah, maybe an 'engine and map pack' or something 2010-09-11T20:12:37 a1k0n: new maps ? when did that happen ? 2010-09-11T20:12:49 Zaphus: in the tron challenge 2010-09-11T20:12:59 a1k0n: oh, ok :-) 2010-09-11T20:13:40 a1k0n: haha, I was gonna say. 2010-09-11T20:13:45 I think even keeping the engine and maps seperate would be good... engine shouln't be updated often, maps might be 2010-09-11T20:13:50 i would put it within the realm of possibility that really interesting maps exist somewhere out there in the design space and that it might be a good idea to include them 2010-09-11T20:14:03 Speaking of maps, assuming there's no successful monte-carlo bots, and variations in turn run times don't end up affecting lookahead depth significantly... Won't that mean game outcomes between two bots are deterministic in the map? 2010-09-11T20:14:38 they mostly are already, perhaps 2010-09-11T20:14:53 currently all the games I've played locally are deterministic 2010-09-11T20:14:54 Zeiris: i dunno, on the closed set of tron maps, the turn run time was the only nondeterministic thing and there was a lot of nondeterministic behavior as a result 2010-09-11T20:14:58 j3camero: please please please extend the time for which you're planning to run the final contest for 2010-09-11T20:14:59 Wouldn't it then be best to have hundreds of slightly different maps? 2010-09-11T20:15:16 a week + with a live leaderboard throughout would best imo 2010-09-11T20:15:32 Zeiris: you also want to rank the bots 2010-09-11T20:15:33 *** Theobon has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-11T20:15:33 The fact that this ends before winter break is a tad strange. 2010-09-11T20:15:44 will you run every bot against every other bot on every map or how will you determine the final winner? 2010-09-11T20:15:53 *** will has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T20:16:04 canihazbacon: they just run it till scores have pretty much stabilised 2010-09-11T20:16:08 Well, presumably if there's a large number of maps, and you can run a sufficient number of games, map choice shouldn't affect ELO... 2010-09-11T20:16:12 @Zeiris: good grades or a good rank - you have to pick one 2010-09-11T20:16:13 canihazbacon: Error: "Zeiris:" is not a valid command. 2010-09-11T20:16:19 Heh. 2010-09-11T20:16:28 oops 2010-09-11T20:16:32 Zeiris: good grades or a good rank - you have to pick one 2010-09-11T20:16:42 contestbot is overly eager 2010-09-11T20:16:43 sigh: Error: "is" is not a valid command. 2010-09-11T20:16:49 sigh is awesome 2010-09-11T20:16:51 lol 2010-09-11T20:16:56 i love when it replies to you 2010-09-11T20:16:58 it sounds so sad 2010-09-11T20:17:04 contestbot: sigh is waesome 2010-09-11T20:17:04 i know... 2010-09-11T20:17:16 how to communicate with contest bot? 2010-09-11T20:17:18 wae is you 2010-09-11T20:17:25 haha 2010-09-11T20:18:03 Zeris: the map choice is pretty critical, I hope they are able to run a round robin on all maps for the finals, e.g. map 30 has a completely different strategy to map1 (well, it can have) 2010-09-11T20:18:31 or just run through all 100 maps ! 2010-09-11T20:18:47 google could sponsor some servers ;-) 2010-09-11T20:18:53 map30 is a bit insane 2010-09-11T20:19:08 Just run the finals over a week, keep the scoreboard updating, it would actually be fun to watch 2010-09-11T20:20:00 round-robin the top n, where every match is all the maps 2010-09-11T20:21:35 Zannick: sounds like a good compromise 2010-09-11T20:21:51 It's fascinating that Python' seems to be doing well. 2010-09-11T20:21:54 a1k0n: can you find a committer (or recommend one) to review and merge some of your changes? Also, can you review and merge some of the other code reviews? Let's make some big improvements today. 2010-09-11T20:21:59 yeah, wouldnt take too long if n is kept under control 50 players would be 245,000 matches, which wouldnt take as long as it sounds, just a few days 2010-09-11T20:22:09 a1k0n: and fire emails out to the mailing list whenever you need something. 2010-09-11T20:22:30 sure. um, which mailing list? 2010-09-11T20:22:34 Zaphus: you could speed it up by running more of them concurrently 2010-09-11T20:22:57 +1 for round robin tob x 2010-09-11T20:22:58 dstufft: indeed, or just let it run over several days because it would be fun to watch as it progresses, not just a final score 2010-09-11T20:22:59 top* 2010-09-11T20:23:10 a1k0n: http://groups.google.com/group/ai-contest-discuss?hl=en 2010-09-11T20:23:16 http://codepad.org/PMg2WSKf <- really simple problem w/ an unordered_map, but I can't seem to find it 2010-09-11T20:23:17 note the part about wanting to be able to watch the tournament unfold 2010-09-11T20:23:35 Will the maps used in the finals be made public or kept secret before submissions close? 2010-09-11T20:23:36 I just got Zaphus' earlier messages about issues 68 and 96. Will take a look at those before starting with the scheduler. 2010-09-11T20:23:46 well, we could have a page with the match results of x vs y in the final tourney 2010-09-11T20:23:49 If that was the case, people ca precomute and store strategies 2010-09-11T20:23:49 one of them is the scheduler 2010-09-11T20:23:54 j3camero: 68 is the scheduler 2010-09-11T20:23:57 ...and that was me :) 2010-09-11T20:24:49 Anyone got links to "good" games between good bots? 2010-09-11T20:25:06 I'm tired of looking for stuff that doesn't involve the default one-at-a-time bots. 2010-09-11T20:25:25 zeiris: whats the definition of 'good' ? 2010-09-11T20:25:26 Zeiris, just check out benzedrine.cx/planetwars/ hehe 2010-09-11T20:25:45 Zaphus, where the opponent isn't firing one fleet at a time. 2010-09-11T20:25:52 j3camero: join requested 2010-09-11T20:25:55 i usually look at the matches where the top bots lose 2010-09-11T20:26:12 yeah, top bots losing is very interesting to look at 2010-09-11T20:26:28 found one of mine where I had a clear lead and managed to throw it away through bad choices 2010-09-11T20:26:30 that formed the basis of my analysis last time 2010-09-11T20:26:42 Zaphus: link? 2010-09-11T20:26:45 QuickStart Guide shouldn't encourage people to upload starter packages.. too much clutter, wasted processing power, less games for actual bots etc 2010-09-11T20:26:54 ratatata: i agree 2010-09-11T20:27:05 didn't the last challenge "garbage collect" these? 2010-09-11T20:27:07 we already know starter packs upload fine. we don't have to have other people do it 2010-09-11T20:27:09 caytchen: yeah 2010-09-11T20:27:20 My not just md5 the starter packages, put them in their own 'sandbox' land 2010-09-11T20:27:52 alternatively, hash the starter packages and fake the output to the end user for those 2010-09-11T20:27:52 er, why 2010-09-11T20:27:54 i'd say take out the "upload starter package" and replace the sloooow, bad video on the front page with some action videos 2010-09-11T20:27:54 or if md5 = starter package max games = 1 2010-09-11T20:28:12 greghaynes: why not allow peoples first version to be the starter pack ? they will update it anyway, and then it will be gone 2010-09-11T20:28:12 allowing them to see a result instantly and get into it 2010-09-11T20:28:14 *** gilaniali has quit IRC (Quit: gilaniali) 2010-09-11T20:28:20 Okay guys I am going to take down the contest backend to test the fixes for issues 68 and 96. They both relate to improving the backend. 2010-09-11T20:28:30 w00t 2010-09-11T20:28:45 do it 2010-09-11T20:29:24 j3camero: 68 and 96 - awesome, I like those two fixes 2010-09-11T20:29:35 j3camero: any chance of switching to the adjusted elo while we're at it? 2010-09-11T20:29:53 j3camero: did you see my more up to date comparison with a bunch of new bots? 2010-09-11T20:30:43 greghaynes: there is not much point in letting starter bots run many games.. I mean.. I bet loads of people will never update the starter pack.. = waste 2010-09-11T20:30:45 http://hpaste.org/fastcgi/hpaste.fcgi/view?id=29882#a29882 2010-09-11T20:31:03 that was yesterday some time 2010-09-11T20:31:19 *** will has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-11T20:31:43 jmcarthur: try doing it now, and it'll totally suck 2010-09-11T20:31:44 imo starter packs don't need to be run at all, or ran once, and should be not be entered into the rankings 2010-09-11T20:31:49 my bot desperately needs more games 2010-09-11T20:32:00 a1k0n: i'd try it if somebody could give me a ratings.txt 2010-09-11T20:32:16 ratatata: Yes, maybe my suggestion wasnt worded so well: I meant just hash them and dont have them be full participants in the tourney on upload 2010-09-11T20:32:17 really we could define an objective function to find the next matches based on increasing the overall probability of the model 2010-09-11T20:32:25 *** test has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-11T20:32:33 (in other words, allocating games where it would narrow the confidence interval the most) 2010-09-11T20:32:33 a1k0n: interesting idea 2010-09-11T20:32:38 zaphus: greghaynes: actually my answer was to Zaphus.. my bad :) 2010-09-11T20:32:44 a1k0n: that's normally just closely ranked bots, isn't it? 2010-09-11T20:32:47 heh, np 2010-09-11T20:32:52 *** canihazbacon has left #aichallenge 2010-09-11T20:33:21 ratatata: yeah, thats a good reason - but its not going to differ much from someone who edits one line then abandons their bot 2010-09-11T20:34:05 jmcarthur: I dont think fix 68 does close-ranked matching, just helps those who havent played in a while 2010-09-11T20:34:23 Zaphus: ah 2010-09-11T20:34:26 jmcarthur: well, no, it's bots with not enough games to decide their ranking, and narrowing that down narrows down the rankings of everyone else who played against them 2010-09-11T20:34:28 oh lol, my first win! 2010-09-11T20:34:29 hah. 2010-09-11T20:34:50 jmcarthur: at least thats from what I could figure reading the patch file. It also tries to avoid repeat matches 2010-09-11T20:34:59 *** td has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-11T20:35:00 a1k0n: that's kind of what the new scheduler should do if what Zaphus says is true 2010-09-11T20:35:31 jmcarthur: well, yeah, but it's more of a 30-game threshold kind of thing iirc 2010-09-11T20:35:35 ah 2010-09-11T20:35:45 repeat matches can also be good 2010-09-11T20:35:52 also, does anyone know if the mono version was updated on the official contest servers? 2010-09-11T20:36:05 caytchen: doubtful 2010-09-11T20:36:07 my stuff is full of LINQ. 2010-09-11T20:36:07 a1k0n: I know nothing about how the confidence range stuff works, but if a scheduler could choose an opponent that would help increase confidence, while making sure everyone gets a game every X minutes, that would be awesome 2010-09-11T20:37:04 Zaphus: i think the idea is to give some priority to bots with a wide confidence interval 2010-09-11T20:37:05 right now it's totally random? 2010-09-11T20:37:11 yeah. horrible 2010-09-11T20:37:26 so you get binomial(x;rate,time) games per time 2010-09-11T20:37:51 where rate is games per second/number of players 2010-09-11T20:37:58 Whoever wrote the visualiser: good job, it's sexy. 2010-09-11T20:38:00 Zaphus: basically instead of focusing on bots with few recent games, you focus on bots that we are less certain about their scores 2010-09-11T20:38:06 which is like 1/2000 2010-09-11T20:38:14 Zaphus: those overlap a lot, but not completely 2010-09-11T20:38:33 yeah, programming is hard 2010-09-11T20:38:37 jmcarthur: I like it, as long as it doesnt keep playing A vs B, or ignoring bots for a long time - everyone needs a game every X hours 2010-09-11T20:39:02 yeah, the objective could just be optimized under that constraint as long as it's a realistic constraint 2010-09-11T20:39:23 Zaphus: for example, if A, B, C, D, and E have all played a few round robins and then E resubmits, A, B, C, and D will all have a wider confidence interval and might get to play a little more again. plus E will get to play a lot 2010-09-11T20:39:26 Also newly uploaded bots should get at least one game eraly on 2010-09-11T20:39:42 *** RobinB has left #aichallenge 2010-09-11T20:39:57 actually, no, A-D won't get a wider interval 2010-09-11T20:39:59 n/m 2010-09-11T20:40:08 they keep their matches against older bots, don't they? 2010-09-11T20:40:08 jmcarthur: Question on bayeselo, for your own bot it uses just the matches since you last uploaded, right ? what does it do with the older results when scoring other peoples bots ? eg. jmcarthur played zaphus yesterday, I upload a new bot, is your old result modified in some way ? 2010-09-11T20:40:09 they will 2010-09-11T20:40:19 actually hmm, not sure 2010-09-11T20:40:33 hm 2010-09-11T20:40:47 the repo isn't sending notifications anymore 2010-09-11T20:40:50 a1k0n: i think you're right, but maybe just because there is a new E and they haven't played it yet, not because the old E is gone 2010-09-11T20:40:50 no, because when it has to re-do the bayeselo thing, it doesn't have a "user-from-some-previous-submission" in there 2010-09-11T20:40:59 oh? 2010-09-11T20:41:00 okay 2010-09-11T20:41:01 so their games just disappear to bayeselo 2010-09-11T20:41:05 then their intervals will get wider 2010-09-11T20:41:11 nearly 11 hours behind a important comment 2010-09-11T20:41:35 a1k0n: so if I resubmit, I can destroy the ranking of the top bot just by pretending I didnt exist when it beat me? 2010-09-11T20:41:42 Zaphus: i think my old result would become less certain 2010-09-11T20:41:44 Zaphus: to some extent yes 2010-09-11T20:42:03 it's not as bad as it sounds 2010-09-11T20:42:18 and under the proposed kind of scheduler, the top bots would then play a little more and fix it up again 2010-09-11T20:42:19 jmcarthur: really, it does sound bad :-) 2010-09-11T20:42:27 it could feed "username-submissionid" into bayeselo actually and get better results 2010-09-11T20:42:32 Zaphus: it wouldn't *destroy* their scores 2010-09-11T20:42:41 maybe it's still even doing that, i haven't actually looked 2010-09-11T20:42:42 a1k0n: that could be a good idea 2010-09-11T20:42:53 a1k0n: ratings.txt doesn't show old bots 2010-09-11T20:42:58 so it's not doing that 2010-09-11T20:43:04 a1k0n: agreed, that would be a good way to handle it - you beat the 'old' zaphus but not the new one 2010-09-11T20:43:05 yeah 2010-09-11T20:43:06 but i'm thinking maybe it should, now 2010-09-11T20:43:27 and each submission is independent, so it's fair, and it gives a lot more data 2010-09-11T20:43:32 except then you might have ten versions of your bot in the top fifty 2010-09-11T20:43:48 but it might actually add too many parameters to the model and just be crazy bad. 2010-09-11T20:43:49 you'd have to exclude them from rankings even while giving them ratings 2010-09-11T20:44:02 Zannick: well right, it'd filter out old submissions on the output 2010-09-11T20:44:09 a1k0n: there's also trueskill instead of elo. trueskill accounts for skills changing over time. then we could just count them all as the same bot 2010-09-11T20:44:22 a1k0n: the other option is simple, dont reset the scores at all - just let them move as you win/lose 2010-09-11T20:44:34 jmcarthur: i wouldn't want a buggy old version of my bot biasing my final results 2010-09-11T20:44:36 also yeah, not sure how bayeselo would like having similar players that never play against each other 2010-09-11T20:44:46 a1k0n: it wouldn't bias them. that's the design of trueskill 2010-09-11T20:44:50 i like this game http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284230364|phreeza-0.2|hsBot10.01 2010-09-11T20:44:57 even though my bot lost 2010-09-11T20:44:58 as soon as there is a change in your skill, your old result become suspect 2010-09-11T20:45:02 trueskill doesnt cater for you resetting every few days though 2010-09-11T20:45:08 *** gw has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T20:45:27 but the nice thing is that when you reupload you start next to bots that you were close to on the last version and then change if necessary 2010-09-11T20:45:39 phreeza: wow! you were so close to winning 2010-09-11T20:45:43 twice 2010-09-11T20:45:46 Zaphus: new submission == skill change 2010-09-11T20:45:54 *** flaran has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2010-09-11T20:46:16 jmcarthur: but Elo handles change in skill over time (as does trueskill) - why bother resetting ? 2010-09-11T20:46:43 yea... a lot to learn from that... i'm never sure which calculations to make just exactly right and where i should include tolerances 2010-09-11T20:47:42 Zaphus: elo doesn't handle it 2010-09-11T20:47:49 Zaphus: oh you mean board resetting? 2010-09-11T20:48:08 Zaphus: yeah that's necessary for (bayes)elo, but wouldn't be necessary for trueskill 2010-09-11T20:48:21 jmcarthur: I mean elo handles human beings who change in skill over time, we dont reset the chess leaderboards every time someone reads a book to improve their skill 2010-09-11T20:48:33 Zaphus: real elo does, but i doubt bayeselo does 2010-09-11T20:48:46 Zaphus: real elo takes a long time to hone in on, too 2010-09-11T20:49:45 Zaphus: actually, elo doesn't do well for people *dropping* in skill, either. it's really only okay with people *rising* in skill. (this is all "if i recall correctly") 2010-09-11T20:49:58 jmcarthur: does bayeselo get used for anything that human beings do ? 2010-09-11T20:50:54 Elo handles dropping in skill very well, you lose heaps of points for losing to someone down the ladder that you were supposed to beat 9/10 times 2010-09-11T20:51:19 okay you're right, but here's something i know elo handles badly: uncertainty. that's why we are using bayeselo in the first place 2010-09-11T20:51:30 trueskill handles uncertainty natively though 2010-09-11T20:51:41 *** sigh has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-09-11T20:51:46 partly through games played, but also through skill changes 2010-09-11T20:51:49 trueskill doesnt need resets though, right ? when someone changes their skill it just handles it 2010-09-11T20:51:53 right 2010-09-11T20:52:29 when they start winning or losing matches that are against the prediction the curve gets wider again 2010-09-11T20:53:32 a1k0n: aprooved 2010-09-11T20:53:39 amstan: thanks 2010-09-11T20:53:42 Zaphus: trueskill even has a matching system included! 2010-09-11T20:54:07 it just feels wrong to throw everything away from your old historical matches when you resubmit. trueskill sounds like the winner to me :-) 2010-09-11T20:55:15 trueskill actually shares a lot in common with bayeselo in that it actually keeps a mean and standard deviation associated with each player rather than just a single number like elo does 2010-09-11T20:56:03 yeah, I really like trueskill - I remember reading a bit about it way back when working on some xbox games 2010-09-11T20:56:04 if i could get a bunch of historical data i could play around with it some 2010-09-11T20:56:12 actually, that would be fun 2010-09-11T20:56:22 hey i want some historical games data! 2010-09-11T20:56:40 followed by hysterical games data! 2010-09-11T20:57:27 *** dmj111 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T20:57:33 *** smhanov has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2010-09-11T20:57:35 trueskill is also iterative, so doesn't require big batch jobs like bayeselo 2010-09-11T20:58:07 jmcarthur: that would only be an issue if the servers were getting hammered... oh, wait :-) 2010-09-11T20:58:11 heh 2010-09-11T20:58:16 lol 2010-09-11T20:58:21 copybot makes for some massive fleets 2010-09-11T20:58:33 i want to see copybot vs hsbot 2010-09-11T20:58:36 * jmcarthur checks benz 2010-09-11T20:58:42 caytchen: not when playing copybot it doesnt 2010-09-11T20:58:42 trying to coordinate attack against 15 with 1040 ships (aim: 1274)... 2010-09-11T20:59:11 *** s_denchev has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-11T20:59:18 aw no matched between hsbot and copybot 2010-09-11T20:59:25 hsbot spams fleets pretty heavily 2010-09-11T21:00:03 I really need to get on that tcp server dont I. can't believe I'm the only person on the planet not using *nix or gcc :-) 2010-09-11T21:00:36 yeah seriously 2010-09-11T21:00:46 really, cygwin 2010-09-11T21:00:48 it's easy 2010-09-11T21:00:57 *** Mathnerd314 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T21:00:58 not on a work laptop it isnt 2010-09-11T21:00:58 just build a windows client it's damn easy :o 2010-09-11T21:01:29 caytchen: I think thats the only option, rewrite the code to compile under win32 2010-09-11T21:01:31 now that i think of it, i might just turn my c# stuff for the tcp server into some standalone 2010-09-11T21:01:48 god just install a linux vm. so much easier than rewriting the whole thing 2010-09-11T21:02:07 the tcp client code isn't that complicated, be pretty easy to replicate in C# 2010-09-11T21:02:27 *** ath888 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T21:03:00 Is it my connection, or is the forum very slow sometimes? 2010-09-11T21:03:13 ermau: no, in Java - then it can be semi-officially part of the contest 2010-09-11T21:03:23 Someone already did a java one 2010-09-11T21:03:26 ath888: read end of topic 2010-09-11T21:03:26 It's in the thread 2010-09-11T21:03:52 which thread ? 2010-09-11T21:03:59 The TCP thread 2010-09-11T21:05:21 Whoa, the website is barely responding right now. Does anybody know what's going on? 2010-09-11T21:05:38 not a clue 2010-09-11T21:05:43 i gtg, stuff is merged 2010-09-11T21:05:50 j3camero: I thought it was you taking it down for an update 2010-09-11T21:06:06 *** ihodes has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T21:06:40 Zaphus: I have turned off the tournament manager. If anything, that should make the website faster. 2010-09-11T21:06:41 someone said the tournament_manager was hogging the database every time an instance of it started up 2010-09-11T21:06:49 ha 2010-09-11T21:07:22 Fack. The website is completely down. Damn. 2010-09-11T21:07:24 no idea, then :/ 2010-09-11T21:07:30 I have no idea what's going on, haha. 2010-09-11T21:08:07 CPU usage is fine. 2010-09-11T21:08:18 Grr why is it not serving pages. 2010-09-11T21:09:08 *** RainCT has quit IRC (Quit: good night) 2010-09-11T21:09:12 Fuck. Gonna try restarting apache. 2010-09-11T21:11:11 maybe everybody paniced when they stopped playing matches and started refreshing like mad 2010-09-11T21:11:17 *panicked 2010-09-11T21:13:08 Hmm, I think I need to be more aggressive, all of the defensive bots get overwhelmed by offense prioritized bots 2010-09-11T21:18:11 *** phreeza_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T21:18:38 j3camero: yeah... umm.. forum's offline too 2010-09-11T21:20:25 Website is back up. 2010-09-11T21:20:37 *** phreeza has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-09-11T21:20:47 Managed to get apache to start back up. Not sure what went wrong yet. I assume it's going to tank again in a few minutes I we don't figure out what the problem was. 2010-09-11T21:20:53 j3camero: you sure? 2010-09-11T21:20:59 nothing for me 2010-09-11T21:21:17 hehe oaky then. That was fast. 2010-09-11T21:21:28 It tanked in a few seconds. Damn. What the fuck is going on. 2010-09-11T21:21:46 df -PhT 2010-09-11T21:21:49 Out of disk space? 2010-09-11T21:22:02 *** bss03-AFK is now known as bss03 2010-09-11T21:22:07 j3camero: [Sat Sep 11 20:14:33 2010] [warn] Init: SSL server IP/port conflict: default-207-150-202-47:443 (/etc/apache2/conf.d/zz010_psa_httpd.conf:78) vs. taraclark.ca:443 (/var/www/vhosts/taraclark.ca/conf/httpd.include:12) 2010-09-11T21:22:29 No, we are at 13% of disk space. Must be something else. 2010-09-11T21:22:33 nvm, not related 2010-09-11T21:22:55 maybe some evil person hacked the server :-/ 2010-09-11T21:23:13 ulimits are too small for a fork bomb... 2010-09-11T21:23:20 j3camero: how about kill all apache processes 2010-09-11T21:23:37 j3camero: then try starting again 2010-09-11T21:23:46 seems like it stays on for some reason 2010-09-11T21:23:49 So, I doubt you are out of PIDs. 2010-09-11T21:24:18 RAM hasn't been an issue... So it seems like it would show up in the Apache logs. 2010-09-11T21:24:59 j3camero: yep, that worked 2010-09-11T21:25:02 j3camero: Is it just dynamic pages that are not beeing served. Or static files as well? 2010-09-11T21:25:05 j3camero: it forgot its own ping 2010-09-11T21:25:08 pid* 2010-09-11T21:25:09 bss03: do you have decent sysadmin experience? Run a big web server before? 2010-09-11T21:25:11 so it couldn't stop 2010-09-11T21:25:26 ulope: apache is getting crushed. The entire site is down. 2010-09-11T21:25:38 j3camero: it's up now, my restart worked 2010-09-11T21:25:39 bss03: Not a big one; just a small one. www.freegeekarkansas.org 2010-09-11T21:25:48 *** hornairs has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T21:25:57 What does this mean? 2010-09-11T21:26:00 And a personal one: www.iguanasuicide.net 2010-09-11T21:26:05 jeff@ltfs1110:~$ sudo /etc/init.d/apache2 start 2010-09-11T21:26:05 * Starting web server apache2 2010-09-11T21:26:05 (98)Address already in use: make_sock: could not bind to address 0.0.0.0:80 2010-09-11T21:26:05 no listening sockets available, shutting down 2010-09-11T21:26:05 Unable to open logs 2010-09-11T21:26:07 ...fail! 2010-09-11T21:26:17 j3camero: another process was already using the pid 2010-09-11T21:26:20 Something is already listing on port 80. 2010-09-11T21:26:22 j3camero: it is fixed now, the site is up 2010-09-11T21:26:31 However, that can be an apache mis-configuration, too. 2010-09-11T21:26:31 j3camero: it forgot its own pid, so the stopping failed 2010-09-11T21:26:32 amstan: wait what? 2010-09-11T21:26:44 If you have multiple "Port" commands that refer to port 80. 2010-09-11T21:27:02 wait... so confused right now. Why is the site up? 2010-09-11T21:27:08 j3camero: i restarted it 2010-09-11T21:27:23 netstat -plan ? 2010-09-11T21:27:25 amstan: nice. Okay, let's see how long it takes to get crushed. 2010-09-11T21:27:43 j3camero: crushed why? 2010-09-11T21:28:09 amstan: I already stop/start apache a few minutes ago. The site was available for a moment, then became unavailable again. 2010-09-11T21:28:29 j3camero: well.. we'll see 2010-09-11T21:28:39 amstan: seems to be staying up... 2010-09-11T21:28:42 j3camero: how about another restart, see if it still fails? 2010-09-11T21:28:46 anyone have any tips about how to redirect sterr to my term? 2010-09-11T21:28:58 so i can get any stack traces 2010-09-11T21:29:12 hornairs: there's an issue about that 2010-09-11T21:29:19 hornairs: we are working on that. For now, I would recommend writing debug messages into a log file and then looking at the log file after the crash. 2010-09-11T21:29:20 hornairs: even a patch if i'm not mistaken 2010-09-11T21:29:31 j3camero: he wants stack traces, he can't use logs for that 2010-09-11T21:29:46 Yep, but at least you can debug 2010-09-11T21:29:49 hornairs: did you try using tee? 2010-09-11T21:29:52 It's a decent workaround 2010-09-11T21:29:59 no never heard of it 2010-09-11T21:30:00 I thought PlayGame.java was fixed to dump stderr from the bots to the console now. 2010-09-11T21:30:23 are there better debugging facilities in the tcp server or is it the same deal? 2010-09-11T21:30:37 and amstan, j3camero, thanks for the help and all your hard work 2010-09-11T21:30:38 hornairs: with the tcp server, you host your bot yourself 2010-09-11T21:30:46 hornairs: http://pastebin.com/FMrN0U41 2010-09-11T21:30:47 so you got all the debugging you could possibly think of heh 2010-09-11T21:31:08 hornairs: so.. add 3>&1 1>&2 2>&3 | tee stderr.txt at the end of the bot command 2010-09-11T21:31:43 j3camero: so.. wanna try restarting? 2010-09-11T21:32:16 j3camero: if it happens again you do ps aux|grep apache 2010-09-11T21:32:23 j3camero: then kill -9 all the processes there 2010-09-11T21:33:16 amstan, thanks, tried it and nothing new came up and no file was created but i think it might be me 2010-09-11T21:33:51 hornairs: what do you use to run the tournament? 2010-09-11T21:34:07 a ruby system call which i think is swallowing something 2010-09-11T21:34:27 amstan: thanks. Is that what you did? 2010-09-11T21:34:39 j3camero: yeah, to solve that port 80 is used error 2010-09-11T21:34:51 *** Nessphoro has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T21:35:17 amstan: wicked. 2010-09-11T21:35:20 Hey guys 2010-09-11T21:35:34 amstan no joy, running with that on the command line doesn't seem to do anything 2010-09-11T21:35:35 amstan: I will write a wiki article about this fix and fire it out to the mailing list. 2010-09-11T21:35:44 site is at a crawl again? 2010-09-11T21:35:55 looks like 2010-09-11T21:36:00 just afer i got a bot up, oh well, shall see how it goes in a while 2010-09-11T21:36:02 j3camero: i don't think it'll persist 2010-09-11T21:36:04 antimatroid1: you don't even know. The site was completely down for a bit there. 2010-09-11T21:36:26 it's not really doing much, just making use of some of the information i've started generating :| 2010-09-11T21:36:28 amstan: why did this happen do you think? What was the initial cause? Did apache run out of connections or something? 2010-09-11T21:36:52 j3camero: well.. the restart failed, something's fishy with that.. 2010-09-11T21:37:00 amstan i gotta run thanks for your help 2010-09-11T21:37:00 yeah the site is down again. 2010-09-11T21:37:09 j3camero: works fine 2010-09-11T21:37:15 j3camero: at least the forums 2010-09-11T21:37:28 hmm 2010-09-11T21:37:29 Oh okay but it was down for a few seconds. 2010-09-11T21:37:32 yeah its working now 2010-09-11T21:37:47 amstan: let me know before you do a restart or whatever. 2010-09-11T21:37:55 ok, got my first match on benzedrine - java code works on win32 (if you ignore the fact that it asks for one more argument than it needs) 2010-09-11T21:38:20 j3camero: i'll send a wall message, if you're in the server shell you'll see it 2010-09-11T21:38:41 second game seems locked up, playing some dude called a1k0n :-) its just sitting there, no idea how long to wait 2010-09-11T21:39:07 Zaphus: what'd you use? 2010-09-11T21:39:31 i tried cigwin before but it wouldn't pick up gcc, tried adding it to my environment variables to no avail 2010-09-11T21:39:42 grabbed the java code from the forum, then just javac TCP.java then java TCP arguements 2010-09-11T21:40:01 onto it, thanks 2010-09-11T21:40:04 well, i just got an email for a comment made on an issue...some few hours ago 2010-09-11T21:40:05 throw in a spare arguement at the end, it asks for 5 but only uses 4 2010-09-11T21:41:11 wait, are you writing your bot in java? 2010-09-11T21:41:35 j3camero: [Sat Sep 11 20:30:11 2010] [error] server reached MaxClients setting, consider raising the MaxClients setting 2010-09-11T21:42:23 amstan: ah okay, that's what I thought. We will have to watch out. If you decide to change anything configuration-wise, please let the mailing list know so that Daniel knows.\ 2010-09-11T21:42:33 j3camero: can i raise it? 2010-09-11T21:43:02 antimatroid1: nope, C++ just launching it from Java just like running planetwars frmo java 2010-09-11T21:44:37 http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284254966|a1k0n-0.2|Zaphus great battle over the center planet :-) 2010-09-11T21:45:39 amstan: yeah go ahead and raise it. The only downside would be that it might start using too much memory and start thrashing to disk. We'll know if that happens because the site will get slower and slower, rather suddenly. 2010-09-11T21:46:01 But let Daniel know what you're doing, and why. Use the mailing list before you make changes. 2010-09-11T21:46:04 j3camero: so like... it's either raising or people start getting page denials 2010-09-11T21:46:17 j3camero: it's not an issue of not raising it, it's an issue of server power 2010-09-11T21:46:26 j3camero: if we reach the limits for the hardware no config will help 2010-09-11T21:46:57 amstan: yeah that's why we should raise it. But if we raise it too high then we will go overboard on ram usage and start thrashing. Then we would get page denials as well. It's a balancing act. Don't raise it by ten times. Just double it, maybe. 2010-09-11T21:47:21 If it turns out we need a bigger server, we can do that. 2010-09-11T21:47:30 j3camero: what kind of specs does this server have? 2010-09-11T21:47:37 amstan: How much RES ram does each Apache process have? 2010-09-11T21:47:45 Or if we get some help from someone more experienced, we could even get many servers and start load balancing. 2010-09-11T21:47:46 j3camero: ok.. new commands: /etc/init.d/apache2 stop, killall apache2; /etc/init.d/apache2 start 2010-09-11T21:47:47 amstan: How much free RAM does the server have? 2010-09-11T21:47:52 j3camero: it does this all the time 2010-09-11T21:47:56 amstan: Divide, increase by that amount. 2010-09-11T21:47:57 ulope: shitty specs. It's a cheap server. 2010-09-11T21:48:12 total used free shared buffers cached 2010-09-11T21:48:13 Mem: 2026 1766 259 0 9 1568 2010-09-11T21:48:18 j3camero: get a better one? 2010-09-11T21:48:34 amstan: fuck. yeah, we don't too much extra memory to play with. 2010-09-11T21:48:45 So, assuming all that used is apache, you can only raise by about 15%. 2010-09-11T21:48:49 amstan ^^ 2010-09-11T21:48:54 j3camero: i don't understand why you didn't do this earlier 2010-09-11T21:49:00 amstan: don't raise the client limit, then. 2010-09-11T21:49:19 bss03, j3camero: that's ram usage after raising and restarting 2010-09-11T21:49:53 *** ermau has quit IRC (Quit: ermau) 2010-09-11T21:49:57 amstan: okay we have two options. (1) get a server with more memory (2) get one or two more shitty servers, switch to database-based sessions for PHP, and do poor-mans load balancing using the DNS entries. What do you think? 2010-09-11T21:50:31 *** ath888 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-11T21:50:34 j3camero: i think we should decentralize the tournament 2010-09-11T21:50:47 j3camero: have the games on corn-syrup, my server and a few others 2010-09-11T21:50:53 *** Nessphoro has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-11T21:50:55 j3camero: then buy the best server you can find for http 2010-09-11T21:51:14 j3camero: my offer still stands (about the root server i have that not doing anything) 2010-09-11T21:51:21 holy crap 2010-09-11T21:51:46 j3camero: it's not only memory that's the problem 2010-09-11T21:52:08 Why not switch to something like nginx 2010-09-11T21:52:33 that would be a temporary solution at best wouldn't it? 2010-09-11T21:52:40 sort of 2010-09-11T21:52:41 dstufft: Yes. I would have suggested taht as well. but with the ancient ubuntu on the box that all much hardern than it needs 2010-09-11T21:52:41 dstufft: games use most of the cpu actually 2010-09-11T21:53:08 Decentralizing the tournament is something we should think about later. Imagine the problems associated with updating the contest software on five different servers whenever we make a change. Let's just move to a bigger server to fix the crisis, then we will try to make a more lasting fix after that. 2010-09-11T21:53:09 amstan: doesn't mean you can't give the games more cpu/memory by getting rid of the highly ineffecient apache 2010-09-11T21:53:15 the games should certainly be decentralized 2010-09-11T21:53:44 j3camero: you already use sftp and scp for stuff 2010-09-11T21:53:47 aren't there tools designed to make distributing changes to multiple servers easy? 2010-09-11T21:53:55 j3camero: we can just have the sandboxing installed on the other servers 2010-09-11T21:54:09 j3camero: and ssh into them on a different port for the sandboxes 2010-09-11T21:54:26 so.. ssh hypertriangle.com -p 4201 will access sandbox1 2010-09-11T21:54:45 tournament manager can still run on the http server 2010-09-11T21:54:45 amstan: yeah, the decentralization could probably be set up fairly quickly. It's pretty much ready to go. 2010-09-11T21:55:00 j3camero: so.. is the TM on right now? 2010-09-11T21:55:12 looks like it.. 2010-09-11T21:55:34 The tM is not on 2010-09-11T21:55:36 why not do it like the tcp server with submitting the code 2010-09-11T21:55:37 it's doing fairly well now, cpu wise 2010-09-11T21:55:57 Cyndre: how can you be sure you don't have human players? 2010-09-11T21:56:01 About the tools for making distributed server changes - we use puppet for that where im at 2010-09-11T21:56:15 amstan: because when you goto do the final round the code will lose instantly 2010-09-11T21:56:17 greghaynes: any good? 2010-09-11T21:56:24 amstan: how are we doing on memory right now? 2010-09-11T21:56:32 j3camero: 200mb left 2010-09-11T21:56:34 Supposedly, I dont know anything else 2010-09-11T21:56:34 pretty bad 2010-09-11T21:57:02 greghaynes: volunteers won't be comfortable giving root access to their private servers 2010-09-11T21:57:07 is this a physical access server? 2010-09-11T21:57:16 Zaphus: llame, claims it can't find the main class in the java file 2010-09-11T21:57:28 amstan: i'd give a vm in a heartbeat if i had the horsepower 2010-09-11T21:57:33 amstan: is that margin shrinking? We have to avoid running out of memory, even if it means putting the maxclients back to 150. 2010-09-11T21:57:41 j3camero: if you want nginx I'm familar it uses a lot less memory then apache 2010-09-11T21:57:52 amstan: Possibly, I think my uni could work something out if youall had specific needs to request 2010-09-11T21:58:00 if this is a physical access server i would buy a stick of extra ram and pop it in immediately 2010-09-11T21:58:23 jmcarthur: it's a PVS, rented 2010-09-11T21:58:27 dang 2010-09-11T21:58:29 antimatroid1: make sure the filename is TCP.java (upper case probably matters), then run javac TCP.java does that work ? 2010-09-11T21:59:10 nope, hates it still 2010-09-11T21:59:14 j3camero: yeah.. ram is getting less and less 2010-09-11T21:59:16 always had capitals 2010-09-11T21:59:28 wait.. 2010-09-11T21:59:30 nvm 2010-09-11T21:59:36 javac not java 2010-09-11T21:59:39 you might be seeing bots stop and start 2010-09-11T21:59:54 claims it doesn;t have javac 2010-09-11T21:59:58 amstan: can you keep watching the ram? update us with the general trend. 2010-09-11T21:59:59 maybe i need a java compiler? 2010-09-11T22:00:04 *** pepebotella has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T22:00:08 i figured it might have just worked :P 2010-09-11T22:00:31 Usually you just need jre for jar's 2010-09-11T22:00:41 Hi to all :) 2010-09-11T22:00:44 it's a .java 2010-09-11T22:00:57 ah, probably want a jdk then 2010-09-11T22:01:09 Not 100% on .javas though 2010-09-11T22:01:12 or, can I send him my .jar over IRC ? 2010-09-11T22:01:30 dcc 2010-09-11T22:01:36 just that never works heh 2010-09-11T22:01:49 Yea, who knows, you could get lucky ;) 2010-09-11T22:01:54 Zaphus i could send you my email via pm? :P 2010-09-11T22:01:59 sure 2010-09-11T22:02:10 all I have to do is figure out how to make a .jar now :-) 2010-09-11T22:02:19 oh, the .class will work , that should do it 2010-09-11T22:04:10 Are matches not currently being run? 2010-09-11T22:04:24 i'm not getting any 2010-09-11T22:04:35 although could just be taking that long to give each person a game 2010-09-11T22:04:37 Yes, but im talking about the competition ;) 2010-09-11T22:04:46 i know 2010-09-11T22:04:49 (zing) 2010-09-11T22:05:03 j3camero: zerd here reminded me that most of the memory is cached 2010-09-11T22:05:18 j3camero: so.. there's only like 300mb used 2010-09-11T22:05:25 Yep, so youre a ways from swapping 2010-09-11T22:05:33 * amstan 's an idiot 2010-09-11T22:05:35 lol 2010-09-11T22:05:58 haha 2010-09-11T22:06:01 That will swap before the cache hits 0 though, beware 2010-09-11T22:06:13 what version of ubuntu is the server running on? 2010-09-11T22:06:18 8.04 2010-09-11T22:06:32 amstan: how much memory does that server have in total? 2010-09-11T22:06:34 kk 2010-09-11T22:06:44 amstan@ltfs1110:/etc/apache2$ free -m 2010-09-11T22:06:46 total used free shared buffers cached 2010-09-11T22:06:47 Mem: 2026 1818 208 0 14 1595 2010-09-11T22:06:48 -/+ buffers/cache: 208 1818 2010-09-11T22:06:50 Swap: 2055 105 1950 2010-09-11T22:07:43 So mybe you could put a varnish instance before it. There memory for that would be there 2010-09-11T22:09:15 woo, won first match 2010-09-11T22:09:36 You got put in a match? 2010-09-11T22:09:37 you on tcp now? 2010-09-11T22:09:41 yep 2010-09-11T22:09:48 all thanks to Zaphur 2010-09-11T22:09:55 amstan: could you explain this cached memory issue to me? I don't udnerstand. 2010-09-11T22:10:09 How do we not have only 208 MB free? 2010-09-11T22:10:27 our bots fighting each other right now? 2010-09-11T22:10:41 Cyndre: just done :/ 2010-09-11T22:10:47 j3camero: Free = unused, linux will take unused mem and case random disk data in RAM so its not wasted, it then is put in cached instead of free 2010-09-11T22:11:00 j3camero: When more mem is needed that cached mem is free'd up 2010-09-11T22:11:06 You WIN against caytchen hehe 2010-09-11T22:11:12 j3camero: when linux reads things from the filesystem and then closes them, it doesn't necessarily free that memory immediately in case the files get read again 2010-09-11T22:11:27 basically 2010-09-11T22:11:48 free memory = wasted memory 2010-09-11T22:11:52 exactly 2010-09-11T22:11:58 I understand. 2010-09-11T22:12:04 disk is the new tape 2010-09-11T22:12:12 lol 2010-09-11T22:12:22 technically ram is the new disk, as well 2010-09-11T22:12:28 NVRam is the new disk! 2010-09-11T22:12:36 ...I wish 2010-09-11T22:12:39 If we cut down the amount of memory available for the filesystem cache by having apache soak up more ram, what other side effects would that have? Is this relatively safe? 2010-09-11T22:12:42 not sure how I turned it around caytchen http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284256946|caytchen|Cyndre 2010-09-11T22:13:02 j3camero: file reads will be slower 2010-09-11T22:13:05 j3camero: Definitely, just dont hit the limit where you use of so much of the ram you start swapping 2010-09-11T22:13:10 http://i.imgur.com/X1Hi1.gif 2010-09-11T22:13:19 sugestion for the visiualizer - a line that runs across the graph while the game plays back 2010-09-11T22:13:29 That generally happens with ~85% mem usage depending on your swapiness value 2010-09-11T22:13:36 heh whenever i look at one of my games i have no freaking idea whats going on because there are just crazy amounts of fleets 2010-09-11T22:13:53 and with most of them i just seem to move ships from a to b and back again lol.. 2010-09-11T22:13:54 How slowly/quickly will that cache shrink in the short term if we immediately boost the maxclient setting for apache? Will be start swapping if apache starts using more memory before Linux has time to reduce the amount of ram being used for cache? 2010-09-11T22:14:01 Cyndre: Suggestion for the visualizer: Use the graph at the bottom as a scrubber. 2010-09-11T22:14:02 the graph at the bottom really help 2010-09-11T22:14:04 s 2010-09-11T22:14:05 interestingly, that diagram i linked to shows exactly why my language of choice doesn't always perform on par with C 2010-09-11T22:14:05 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T22:14:11 For jumping to a particular position in the game. 2010-09-11T22:14:18 yea, was going to say that but thought I was asking to much as it was 2010-09-11T22:14:39 its ram:cache ratio is often much higher than good C code 2010-09-11T22:14:42 j3camero: Itll drain cache for use until it it reaches near 15% of ram usage then itll start swapping 2010-09-11T22:15:08 You can tweak the limits by setting swapiness lower if you notice it swapping 2010-09-11T22:15:26 IMO, when you hit swap, you might as well just turn the whole machine off 2010-09-11T22:15:44 Yea, youre pretty hosed especially if its due to something like apache 2010-09-11T22:15:48 i often don't even run my machines with swap 2010-09-11T22:15:54 not servers, mind you 2010-09-11T22:15:58 greghaynes: Or swapoff'ing it if you can live with suddenly killed proceses 2010-09-11T22:16:03 Well, then youre REALLY hosed when it happens ;) 2010-09-11T22:16:09 you're hose anyway 2010-09-11T22:16:12 remember your friend the oom killer 2010-09-11T22:16:14 Okay, so we raised maxclients from 150 to 250 a few minutes ago. What could we safely raise it to right now without risking any problems in the short term (as it ramps up) or the long term? 2010-09-11T22:16:21 you're gonna have to reboot or kill something either way 2010-09-11T22:16:29 amstan: are you following this? 2010-09-11T22:16:42 i hate the OOM killer. seriously linux, why do you have to do it that way? 2010-09-11T22:17:07 I dont know how the apache memory usage curve goes...remember the mem usage from before, plot now, extrapolate 2010-09-11T22:17:23 extrapolating isn't very useful either :( 2010-09-11T22:17:41 Well, you can at least try and see if its linear-ish 2010-09-11T22:17:46 I suspect it may not be 2010-09-11T22:17:52 very few things are 2010-09-11T22:17:53 greghaynes: that means a restart for each point 2010-09-11T22:18:24 contestbot: rankings 2010-09-11T22:18:25 amstan: Top 10 players: dmj111(2829), albert(2810), seigen(2776), Kavish(2746), strank(2711), drewrobb(2702), danielvf(2699), sighbot(2681), cheese_bot(2665), vortex(2649) 2010-09-11T22:18:32 seems pretty instant right now 2010-09-11T22:18:34 if we had a reverse proxy in front of this we could reroute to a temporary server and a message while we play with this one 2010-09-11T22:18:39 except the TM is off 2010-09-11T22:18:44 amstan: Most web server have a method to reload config without denying requests while it happens 2010-09-11T22:18:46 jmarthur: That diagram is impressive... especiall since I had to zoom in a dozen times in my igame viewer to see what it WAS. 2010-09-11T22:19:02 greghaynes: i don't think a simple reload will be able to change maxclients 2010-09-11T22:19:04 bss03: it's actually become even worse since that diagram was made 2010-09-11T22:19:06 jmcarthur: Turn off the OOM killer. 2010-09-11T22:19:11 bss03: CPUs got a bit faster and HDs didn't 2010-09-11T22:19:19 bss03: yeah, then you just freeze 2010-09-11T22:19:20 jmcarthur: Force all allocations to be reserved. 2010-09-11T22:19:24 heh 2010-09-11T22:19:33 if only processes were so disciplined 2010-09-11T22:19:39 jmcarthur: That's how I run my servers, desktop, and laptop. 2010-09-11T22:19:49 jmcarthur: It's a /proc/sus option. 2010-09-11T22:20:08 jmcarthur: Then the malloc() call fails. The program might crash or just write a log message. 2010-09-11T22:20:26 jmcarthur: logcheck mails me the log messages every hour (after filtering for ignorable ones). 2010-09-11T22:20:45 bss03: that does seem nicer, but would suck if the program that crashes was *not* the program taking all the memory 2010-09-11T22:20:58 /proc/sus -> /proc/sys -> /etc/sysctl.conf 2010-09-11T22:21:06 Then you glaze over the logcheck messages while reading your email until someone yells at you to fix it. ;) 2010-09-11T22:21:31 i am a fan of fail hard, but that only works if you have a good recovery strategy 2010-09-11T22:21:35 Yeah, that happens. But, I at least know there's a memory issue an can check on it, rather than trusting the OOM killer to get it right. 2010-09-11T22:21:40 on my desktop... i don't really :) 2010-09-11T22:21:46 Yep 2010-09-11T22:21:47 Too often I've seen the OOM killer enter a process killing loop. 2010-09-11T22:21:49 *** meow__ has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T22:21:56 oh yeah, OOM sucks 2010-09-11T22:22:27 it's especially nice when you have some crons to check for running processes and restart them when necessary 2010-09-11T22:22:33 graghaybes: Nah, I'm pretty active at fixing logcheck issues, or writing rules so I don't see that message, normally. 2010-09-11T22:22:36 like a game of this ai challenge heh 2010-09-11T22:22:42 sometimes i wish malloc was just blocking 2010-09-11T22:23:01 amstan: leave the maxclients at 250 for now. I think we may be relatively safe there. Any higher and we risk more serious problems with RAM. 2010-09-11T22:23:09 greghaynes: Drupal is a bit verbose in it's logging of small-ish errors, so I don't have rules for all of those yet. :( 2010-09-11T22:23:13 j3camero: check the mail 2010-09-11T22:24:00 jmcarthur: Blocking malloc sounds potentially bad. I can see why you'd want it for certain applications though. 2010-09-11T22:24:31 jmcarthur: If your program seriously can't do anythign else until it gets some memory, it's appropriate for the kernel to block it and wait for memory to free up, I think. 2010-09-11T22:24:32 bss03: blocking by default, is perhaps what i mean 2010-09-11T22:24:46 bss03: but where a program could opt out of that for critical things 2010-09-11T22:24:59 *** pepebotella has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-09-11T22:25:01 or perhaps it should be the other way around... 2010-09-11T22:25:05 jmcarthur: Yeah, as long as there was a try_malloc() that didn't block, I'd be *fine* with malloc blocking. 2010-09-11T22:25:14 remember linux overallocates anyway 2010-09-11T22:25:25 it's like blocking malloc just better ;o 2010-09-11T22:25:26 caytchen: Not *my* linux. 2010-09-11T22:25:29 caytchen: not if you do reserved allocations like bss03 does 2010-09-11T22:25:40 caytchen: I trun off the overcommit and OOM killer. 2010-09-11T22:26:31 amstan: good mail message. Thanks. 2010-09-11T22:27:06 The heuristic the OOM killer uses is actually very good, but I've had cases where the results were... not so good... and I prefer malloc() to fail-fast. 2010-09-11T22:27:15 *** ckoehler has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T22:27:18 hi there 2010-09-11T22:27:26 how would i go about debugging my python bot? 2010-09-11T22:27:39 what do you guys do to get debug output etc? 2010-09-11T22:27:40 use the tcp server 2010-09-11T22:27:45 ckoehler: print to file 2010-09-11T22:27:45 Use the tcp server, write messages and crap to stderr. 2010-09-11T22:27:47 "[...] reading from L1 cache is like grabbing a piece of paper from your desk (3 seconds), L2 cache is picking up a book from a nearby shelf (14 seconds), and main system memory is taking a 4-minute walk down the hall to buy a Twix bar. [...] waiting for a hard drive seek is like leaving the building to roam the earth for one year and three months." 2010-09-11T22:28:15 I'm not sure exactly how the tcpserver works, but you may even be able to tee stdout so that it gets sent to the server and a file, too. 2010-09-11T22:28:18 Actually, I dont think that does it justice 2010-09-11T22:28:29 the analogy? 2010-09-11T22:28:43 I think its more like leaving your office, developing your own form of space travel, going to a distant planet, and returning 2010-09-11T22:28:57 hahaha 2010-09-11T22:29:22 jmcarthur: L1 = from memory; L2 = look it up on your phone, RAM = look it up at the library, HD = undiscovered information that a Ph.D. might think about next decade or so. 2010-09-11T22:30:04 tcp server being the local java playgame.jar ? 2010-09-11T22:30:11 ckoehler: No. 2010-09-11T22:30:15 @where tcp-server 2010-09-11T22:30:15 bss03: I do not know about 'tcp-server', but I do know about these similar topics: 'tcpserver' 2010-09-11T22:30:20 @where tcpserver 2010-09-11T22:30:20 bss03: tcpserver = http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/ 2010-09-11T22:30:53 contestbot: learn tcp as [where tcpserver] 2010-09-11T22:30:53 amstan: The operation succeeded. 2010-09-11T22:30:59 contestbot: learn tcp-server as [where tcpserver] 2010-09-11T22:30:59 amstan: The operation succeeded. 2010-09-11T22:31:03 @tcp 2010-09-11T22:31:04 bss03: tcp = tcpserver = http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/ 2010-09-11T22:31:08 i love this tcp thing 2010-09-11T22:31:11 contestbot: where tcpserver 2010-09-11T22:31:11 amstan: tcpserver = http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/ 2010-09-11T22:31:15 i've had like 10 games in the last 20 minutes 2010-09-11T22:31:15 contestbot: where tcp 2010-09-11T22:31:15 amstan: tcp = tcpserver = http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/ 2010-09-11T22:32:36 hm k 2010-09-11T22:32:37 thanks 2010-09-11T22:32:45 amstan: we are only serving 45-60 pages at once right now. I wonder why it reached 150 earlier. I assume it did exceed 150. 2010-09-11T22:32:50 *** ByteCoin has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T22:32:54 just noticed the canvas playback seems to miss the final result (i.e. you dont see yourself take that final planet to end the game) if there is nothing in flight :-( might be the engine itself not sending it out 2010-09-11T22:33:06 j3camero: where did you get that? 2010-09-11T22:33:20 amstan: perhaps if something slows down a little bit, then each page requests takes a little longer, so they stack up. If our page requests took 3 times as long, we would be at 150. 2010-09-11T22:33:25 ps -ef | grep apache2 | wc -l 2010-09-11T22:34:01 j3camero: i think that's just the workers, not clients 2010-09-11T22:34:21 amstan: oh yes, you're right. 2010-09-11T22:34:31 Zaphus: yeah, the engine doesn't send that out 2010-09-11T22:34:40 i think 2010-09-11T22:34:46 amstan: this suggests that we may be much higher than 50, if each worker is serving many pages at ocne. 2010-09-11T22:34:57 amstan: I am breaking for a bit to eat. brb. 2010-09-11T22:34:58 though.. nvm 2010-09-11T22:35:05 # MaxClients: maximum number of server processes allowed to start 2010-09-11T22:35:15 oh nice. This makes things easier. 2010-09-11T22:35:19 Cyndre: that ones a winner heh. 2010-09-11T22:35:24 So we're at 50 ish out of 250 2010-09-11T22:35:35 j3camero: that doesn't sound right.. 2010-09-11T22:35:44 lmao 2010-09-11T22:35:45 we had 150, the error wouldn't be happening otherwise 2010-09-11T22:35:57 *** l4u has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2010-09-11T22:37:13 caytchen: that ones got a bug that sends reinforcements (fleet checking replacing planet target so it targets the fleets destination planet....) 2010-09-11T22:37:31 so the tcp server is used to connect my bot to some other test server? 2010-09-11T22:38:05 cause I get: execv: ./MyBot.py: failed 2010-09-11T22:38:22 try"python ./MyBot.py" 2010-09-11T22:38:26 ckoehler: chmod +x 2010-09-11T22:38:58 i use a shell script that calls python MyBot.py 2010-09-11T22:39:08 contestbot: time 2010-09-11T22:39:08 Zaphus: 10:39 PM, September 11, 2010 2010-09-11T22:40:17 *** pepebotella has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T22:41:41 hi, i've submitted a new version of my bot one hour ago. but it seems to don't start to play: "No game information available at this time." 2010-09-11T22:41:56 My user: http://ai-contest.com/profile.php?user_id=3924 2010-09-11T22:42:27 thanks, that was it 2010-09-11T22:43:24 *** l4u has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T22:43:49 Cyndre: huh? sorry, didn't really understand, what was your bot doing that it shouldn't have? 2010-09-11T22:44:15 You need to chmod 755 your .py file, and make sure the #! points to a valid path 2010-09-11T22:44:30 Also, make sure if youre on non win that you dos2unix 2010-09-11T22:44:57 caytchen: as it scans the enemysFleet it was replacing the planetID it was looking at with the enemysfleet destinationPlanetID 2010-09-11T22:45:06 *** sigh has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-09-11T22:46:53 greghaynes: yeah the carriage returns are killing me 2010-09-11T22:46:56 #!/usr/bin/env python ftw 2010-09-11T22:47:04 env: python\r: No such file or directory 2010-09-11T22:47:51 bss03 so how different is the ghc on 8.04 versus 10.04 2010-09-11T22:48:04 pepebotella: i don't think game are playing right now. there've been some server issues 2010-09-11T22:48:07 *games 2010-09-11T22:48:19 j3camero: so.. what's up? can we get decentralization? 2010-09-11T22:48:28 iFire: ghc 6.8.2 and 6.12.3 are pretty drastically different, at least as far as how i use haskell 2010-09-11T22:48:29 j3camero: people are migrating to the tcp server 2010-09-11T22:48:49 iFire: the fundamental language is the same, but a lot of extensions that i like are not well supported in 6.8.2 2010-09-11T22:48:58 jmcarthur so am I out of luck? 2010-09-11T22:49:07 iFire: and 6.8.2 also generates relatively slow binaries 2010-09-11T22:49:13 iFire: not out of luck 2010-09-11T22:49:52 iFire: i'm currently coding for a recent version in the hopes that we can get sandboxing to work well enough to trust binaries 2010-09-11T22:50:08 iFire: if that doesn't work, well, i could port my code to work in 6.8.2 if i needed to i guess 2010-09-11T22:50:43 iFire: if you don't use things like type families, 6.8.2 is probably fine for you 2010-09-11T22:52:05 *** rogue780__ has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T22:52:23 i love how McLeopold beat deepblue just once and then stopped playing because he ended up at the top 2010-09-11T22:52:50 the adjusted elo wouldn't have allowed that :P 2010-09-11T22:52:57 jmcarthur: Have you entered your bot, yet? 2010-09-11T22:53:07 bss03: no it's not ready 2010-09-11T22:53:16 bss03: it won't run on the official right now anyway 2010-09-11T22:53:20 k, so got the tcp server going 2010-09-11T22:53:26 since i'm using stuff incompatible with 6.8.2 2010-09-11T22:53:41 now, what does all that output mean? 2010-09-11T22:53:53 well what output are you seeing? 2010-09-11T22:53:56 I"m having a few issues. With the latest starter pack, my bots time out on the first move. I went back to the old one (the one from the 8th), but then when my bot is player1, it's first move does nothing. It sends 6 ships to a planet with 4, and then my ships disappear and the planet remains 4 and neutral. Any suggestions? 2010-09-11T22:54:12 lots of P 2.778805 4.826668 0 80 5 2010-09-11T22:54:16 i guess that's the planets 2010-09-11T22:54:26 that you aren't supposed to see, it's for your bot heh. 2010-09-11T22:55:03 oh 2010-09-11T22:55:16 *** smhanov has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T22:55:21 rogue780__: anything related on the forums? 2010-09-11T22:55:46 contestbot: echo rogue780__: anything in the issue list: [where issues] 2010-09-11T22:55:46 rogue780__: anything in the issue list: issues = http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/list 2010-09-11T22:56:44 amstan: the number of apache processes seems to be drifting down and is around 35 right now. This is a positive sign. 2010-09-11T22:57:08 I don't suppose you can switch to nginx 2010-09-11T22:57:15 well, one post on the forum says to go back to the old one to fix my first problem, then they say to go to the new one to fix the problem using the old one causes. 2010-09-11T22:57:20 very frustrating 2010-09-11T22:57:33 *** pepebotella has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-11T22:57:59 j3camero: not really.. just means that there's less ppl 2010-09-11T22:58:08 j3camero: what do we do about decentralization? 2010-09-11T22:58:13 j3camero: or running the TM? 2010-09-11T22:58:19 j3camero: can we run it with less cpu? 2010-09-11T22:58:23 j3camero: maybe nice it? 2010-09-11T22:58:26 *** FlagCapper has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-11T22:58:34 amstan: i can turn on the TM and we'll see what happens. Want to do that? 2010-09-11T22:58:51 amstan: or... maybe not. Then the server would eventually blow up again. 2010-09-11T22:59:24 er 2010-09-11T22:59:43 j3camero: run the TM with nice -n 19 in front of it 2010-09-11T22:59:47 ugh 2010-09-11T22:59:52 jmcarthur: what? 2010-09-11T23:00:02 question re the tm, what timeout are you running it with, and how often are you starting it from cron? 2010-09-11T23:00:05 amstan: the issue with decentralizing right now is that we might use a shit ton of bandwidth sending people's bots across the internet, which might put us over our allowed bandwidth of 4 TB per month. We could get a second server inside the same DC in the next day or so, and use that one as a worker node. Intrad-DC bandwidth is free. 2010-09-11T23:00:06 nicing won't help ram 2010-09-11T23:00:10 and it would make bots suck more 2010-09-11T23:00:16 are you using cpu or wall time at the moment? 2010-09-11T23:00:18 oh ram isn't the issue 2010-09-11T23:00:23 zerd: still wall time 2010-09-11T23:00:45 j3camero: if we're not decentralizing we potentially need more than 2 2010-09-11T23:01:02 amstan: but one extra server will basically fix the problem in the short term, right? 2010-09-11T23:01:10 j3camero: if we do decentralize we can have limitless number of matches 2010-09-11T23:01:15 j3camero: volunteers and all that 2010-09-11T23:01:34 amstan: you have to worry about the validity of data then 2010-09-11T23:01:35 Yeah, but bandwidth limits are bandwidth limits. 2010-09-11T23:01:50 j3camero: have a way to store bots 2010-09-11T23:01:54 amstan: I will do some calculations to see what sort of bandwidth we would be using. Give me a few minutes. 2010-09-11T23:02:02 If you guys have 4TB free that means you can use about 135 GB/day... that should be enough for a few bots 2010-09-11T23:02:02 dstufft: not a big deal if we just cycle the bots around so that no one machine can control the fate of a bot 2010-09-11T23:02:08 dstufft: not really, at the end of the day the final bots are the submitted ones representing the one you have running 2010-09-11T23:02:17 ulope: each match the bots have to be reuploaded 2010-09-11T23:02:29 ulope: why? 2010-09-11T23:02:33 er amstan: why 2010-09-11T23:02:52 Cyndre: that's how it works.. for each match, start the 2 VMS, upload the bots, run them 2010-09-11T23:02:54 Cyndre: because that's just the way it is right now. It would take more time to design it another way. 2010-09-11T23:03:03 just found a typo 2010-09-11T23:03:04 http://ai-contest.com/simple_strategy_guide.php 2010-09-11T23:03:07 last code box 2010-09-11T23:03:17 numFleets vs numShips 2010-09-11T23:03:18 j3camero: see pm 2010-09-11T23:03:22 j3camero: whats wrong with starting off with the tcp server and moving wforward with that 2010-09-11T23:03:41 Cyndre: huh? 2010-09-11T23:03:42 amstan: even if so. How big are the bots in general? 2010-09-11T23:03:51 ulope: 1 meg upper limit 2010-09-11T23:03:53 *** td123 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T23:03:57 amstan: let people run their own bots on their machine 2010-09-11T23:04:03 depends on if you do binaries or source 2010-09-11T23:04:13 amstan: the compressed java starter package is over 2 megs 2010-09-11T23:04:25 amstan: okay I will be AFK for about 1/2-hour. When I come back I will see if it's safe to send bots over the network by estimating the average size of a compiled bot. Can you start to find volunteers and get credentials on their boxes? Can you see if the CSC will lend us corn-syrup for the contest? Probably want to talk to hat guy and spang about that. 2010-09-11T23:04:29 jmcarthur: umm... nvm then 2010-09-11T23:04:31 amstan: so you can send out about 140 tousand bots per day 2010-09-11T23:04:35 Cyndre: I think there may be a lot of cheating possible that way... maybe. 2010-09-11T23:04:56 bss03: but the final results will be based on submitted bot, maybe 1 or 2 cheats, but the true winners will stand out 2010-09-11T23:04:58 amstan: keep in mind that anyone running a worker node would be ineligible for the whole rest of the contest. 2010-09-11T23:04:59 bss03: i think for this particular game most bots will beat most humans 2010-09-11T23:05:13 bss03: the only cheating could be unfair amount of computing resources 2010-09-11T23:05:14 jmcarthur: I agree. 2010-09-11T23:05:21 bbiab 2010-09-11T23:05:28 and without authentication, identity theft 2010-09-11T23:05:28 j3camero: this can be done even on desktop comps 2010-09-11T23:05:38 jmcarthur: which would fail on final contest ranking when they do it themselves 2010-09-11T23:05:55 Cyndre: yeah, which makes the tcp server even less reliable for testing anyway 2010-09-11T23:06:02 jmcarthur: I suppose that's true. I'm just thinking huge amount of pre-computed data, but it's possible the random maps make that too hard. 2010-09-11T23:06:07 *** smhanov has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2010-09-11T23:06:07 jmcarthur: not hard to build that in 2010-09-11T23:06:23 Cyndre: what, unreliability? 2010-09-11T23:06:30 jmcarthur: unreliability? 2010-09-11T23:06:55 Cyndre: if your bot works for the tcp server and not the official because the official server has less resources then the tcp server fails to be a good testing device 2010-09-11T23:07:22 for what it's worth 2010-09-11T23:07:29 meant cheating 2010-09-11T23:07:32 wise 2010-09-11T23:07:39 don't even care about cheating, honestly 2010-09-11T23:07:43 same 2010-09-11T23:07:48 i could probably donate some resources server wise 2010-09-11T23:07:50 except for the final tournament 2010-09-11T23:08:17 at which point they could use 3 machines - 2 clients and 1 main server 2010-09-11T23:08:22 the main issue i see with distributed TM is that hosts can see the source code, especially of bots written in interpreted languages 2010-09-11T23:08:33 amstan: cool. Can you find a few servers? Maybe even hypertriangle and corn-syrup would do for now. 2010-09-11T23:08:52 I agree with you on that 2010-09-11T23:09:03 hypertriangle is pretty much unused, it has 2 cpus that your main server has 2010-09-11T23:09:19 amstan: how much ram? We are currently ram-bound 2010-09-11T23:09:31 hm my bot times out when i try to write stuff to a file 2010-09-11T23:09:32 j3camero: we're ram bound because of http and mysql 2010-09-11T23:09:40 j3camero: 2GB 2010-09-11T23:09:41 if you're just running bots the ram is a nonissue 2010-09-11T23:09:48 amstan: oh yeah of coruse you're right. The bots would be CPU bound 2010-09-11T23:09:54 *** Utkarsh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2010-09-11T23:10:27 j3camero: it would be nice if we could have the nodes hotpluggable, so we can even use desktop comps 2010-09-11T23:10:39 might be able to use celery 2010-09-11T23:11:00 j3camero: how was the computer setup on the tron challenge? did you run the bots on the web-server then too? 2010-09-11T23:11:08 amstan: i'm a little skeptical of the distributed idea now unless volunteers are disqualified from the contest 2010-09-11T23:11:13 dstufft: i think that any root people for the comps that will get used for bots should be disqualified 2010-09-11T23:11:24 yeah... 2010-09-11T23:11:28 jmcarthur: yes.. but there's about 4 volunteers 2010-09-11T23:11:31 that might be enough 2010-09-11T23:11:32 i'd say just copy the benzedrine tcp server model... sure you'd have to run your comp for it to get battles but still it completely circumvents all the other problems: * stolen source code, * incompatible dev. tools version, * resources, * unsafe native code etc. 2010-09-11T23:11:34 hmm 2010-09-11T23:11:36 yeah, could be 2010-09-11T23:11:57 if we run this on volunteer machines we should definitely fix up the sandbox 2010-09-11T23:12:04 qemu+kvm for sure 2010-09-11T23:12:11 or virtualbox, maybe 2010-09-11T23:12:16 *** ckoehler has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2010-09-11T23:12:41 jmcarthur: that might be a good idea 2010-09-11T23:12:45 virtualbox the whole thing 2010-09-11T23:12:51 http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284260329|greghaynes|antimatroid0.11 2010-09-11T23:12:52 both need kernel exts, so i guess the choice is arbitrary. we already have qemu in the repo though 2010-09-11T23:12:53 *** bss03 is now known as bss03-AFK 2010-09-11T23:12:53 have it easy to deploy 2010-09-11T23:12:56 that was a close match for a while :( 2010-09-11T23:13:02 oh, you mean vb the entire setup 2010-09-11T23:13:06 that could work too 2010-09-11T23:13:08 Anybody who is running a worker node would not be able to compete any more. makes sure people know this, amstan. 2010-09-11T23:13:10 but doesn't help the sandbox 2010-09-11T23:13:21 actually not really aha 2010-09-11T23:13:26 jmcarthur: Not really the kernel modules for kvm are already in the latest ubuntu 2010-09-11T23:13:47 ulope: yeah, so we'd just need to upgrade the bot servers.... not a problem for me :D 2010-09-11T23:14:22 so does kvm inside another vm actually work? 2010-09-11T23:14:24 *** Utkarsh has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T23:14:26 *** braddunbar has quit IRC (Disconnected by services) 2010-09-11T23:14:39 i know that vtx hardware normally doesn't do nested vms 2010-09-11T23:15:06 jmcarthur: AFAIK only qemu works inside a kvm sinse the cpu extensions cant do nested vm 2010-09-11T23:15:13 right 2010-09-11T23:15:35 hmm.... yeah kvm can be nested in kvm 2010-09-11T23:15:51 *** braddunbar has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T23:15:52 or at least there was work on that... 2010-09-11T23:15:54 in 2008 2010-09-11T23:15:58 lemme find something newer 2010-09-11T23:17:02 j3camero: if someone supplies a patch, and i test and review it, can i just commit it to trunk? 2010-09-11T23:17:16 still don't understand the problem with the tcp server - couldnt you have a wrapper for the bot that limits the avaliable resources to it? 2010-09-11T23:17:18 amstan, the issue isn't listed 2010-09-11T23:17:22 But the question is. Is nested virt. even needed? Why not just run the vms on a normal account 2010-09-11T23:17:46 rogue780__: make one 2010-09-11T23:17:46 Cyndre, then it'd have to be close source, else it would be pointless 2010-09-11T23:18:04 rogue780__: sorry about this, but we're having a few problems with server load, that should be fixed first 2010-09-11T23:18:04 ulope: i think amstan was thinking we could just have a vm image to distribute to the hosts so they don't have to be set up individually 2010-09-11T23:18:12 but that may be unnecessary 2010-09-11T23:18:16 there are tools for this kind of thing 2010-09-11T23:18:22 jmcarthur: Yeah well true 2010-09-11T23:18:31 Queue29: no, only to make sure your final code will run on final server 2010-09-11T23:18:55 Queue29: your running the client (your bot) 2010-09-11T23:20:38 @where repo 2010-09-11T23:20:38 amstan: repo = http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/ 2010-09-11T23:21:18 amstan, no biggy. we've got a while until the contest closes 2010-09-11T23:22:11 *** gilaniali has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T23:24:20 *** Zaphus has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-09-11T23:26:15 *** Theobon has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T23:31:05 http://tinyurl.com/decentralizedai 2010-09-11T23:31:15 j3camero: i made a wiki page: http://tinyurl.com/decentralizedai 2010-09-11T23:31:35 contestbot: topic add Latest Idea, decentralization: http://tinyurl.com/decentralizedai 2010-09-11T23:31:35 *** contestbot changes topic to "Official Google AI Challenge: http://ai-contest.com/ || http://contestbot.hypertriangle.com/ || Developers wanted, contact j3camero. || Now your code reviews can be approved by any other developer, no need for admin intervention. || Sorry about the slowness. || Latest Idea, decentralization: http://tinyurl.com/decentralizedai" 2010-09-11T23:33:28 another random idea: why not use something less sucky than apache? like nginx? 2010-09-11T23:33:33 e.g. http://interfacelab.com/nginx-php-fpm-apc-awesome/ 2010-09-11T23:34:11 a1k0n: we have to test all this somehow before deplying 2010-09-11T23:34:16 deploying 2010-09-11T23:34:31 yeah, that's the thing, heh. 2010-09-11T23:34:42 i can make a sandbox on app.a1k0n.net; it'll be extremely limited in RAM though 2010-09-11T23:35:20 fwiw 2010-09-11T23:35:24 a1k0n: but then you can't compete 2010-09-11T23:35:30 im getting a nginx proof of concept up 2010-09-11T23:35:38 with the site's code 2010-09-11T23:35:39 of the contest site? 2010-09-11T23:35:42 yea 2010-09-11T23:35:44 oh, heh. so you're way ahead of me. 2010-09-11T23:35:54 installing mysql atm, php and what not is installed 2010-09-11T23:35:56 amstan: i'd just use your sample sql data, nothing from other contestants 2010-09-11T23:35:58 oh! yeah.. that can be done 2010-09-11T23:36:05 amstan, nevermind about that problem. It was PBKAC 2010-09-11T23:36:10 throwing errors of course cuz idon't have mysql installed 2010-09-11T23:36:15 rogue780__: delete the issue 2010-09-11T23:36:29 amstan, I realized it as I was filling out the issue. none was made 2010-09-11T23:36:29 contestbot: tell dstufft test 2010-09-11T23:37:04 contestbot: echo dstufft: [whereis sampledb] 2010-09-11T23:37:05 amstan: Error: "whereis" is not a valid command. 2010-09-11T23:37:06 amstan, a1k0n do you guys and storage/bandwidth at all? I have an account at dreamhost that I'm barely using. I could give you a subdomain 2010-09-11T23:37:10 contestbot: echo dstufft: [where sampledb] 2010-09-11T23:37:10 dstufft: sampledb = http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~amstan/aichallenge/sample.sql 2010-09-11T23:37:25 amstan: ya 2010-09-11T23:37:34 guys! any person who runs an official node cannot compete 2010-09-11T23:37:39 stop trying to offer nodes 2010-09-11T23:37:44 i don't use mysql for my projects, so im installing the mysql server 2010-09-11T23:37:53 i'll offer a node b/c i don't care if i compete :p 2010-09-11T23:37:58 i'm not offering a node, i'm offering a site sandbox to test patches on 2010-09-11T23:38:08 I'm not good enough at math to do so 2010-09-11T23:38:10 a1k0n: why do you call it sandbox? 2010-09-11T23:38:23 because it's a place to play around 2010-09-11T23:38:25 i dunno, that's the term that's typically used. 2010-09-11T23:38:30 sandbox is overloaded 2010-09-11T23:38:34 slightly 2010-09-11T23:38:43 yeah, not a 'sadbox' 2010-09-11T23:38:43 they have overlapping meanings 2010-09-11T23:38:46 lkol 2010-09-11T23:38:54 okay i can officially not type 2010-09-11T23:39:26 i want to commit another patch to the lame java engine but i don't know if j3camero wants me to commit to trunk or what 2010-09-11T23:39:40 random, i just didn't get a win/lose result from the tcp server 2010-09-11T23:39:44 making a branch for someone else's code, then reviewing it, and then committing it to trunk seems to be within the rules but is silly 2010-09-11T23:39:51 also, FUUU a1k0n ;) 2010-09-11T23:39:57 antimatroid1: ? 2010-09-11T23:40:05 you beat my naive bot just before 2010-09-11T23:40:22 oh heh 2010-09-11T23:40:32 i have it running in a loop, not paying attention 2010-09-11T23:40:33 *** deepblue has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T23:40:37 yep 2010-09-11T23:40:41 contestbot: rankings 2010-09-11T23:40:42 amstan: Top 10 players: dmj111(2829), albert(2810), seigen(2776), Kavish(2746), strank(2711), drewrobb(2702), danielvf(2699), sighbot(2681), cheese_bot(2665), vortex(2649) 2010-09-11T23:40:43 hi guys again 2010-09-11T23:40:49 hello sir 2010-09-11T23:40:50 wow, dhartmei has a good bot now 2010-09-11T23:40:52 I wish the google visualizer looked as good as the canvas one 2010-09-11T23:40:58 as does deepblue 2010-09-11T23:41:05 :) 2010-09-11T23:41:08 rogue780__: the google visualizer? 2010-09-11T23:41:14 a1k0n: this is such a silly game http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284261143|a1k0n-0.2|drewrobb0.31 2010-09-11T23:41:16 and he will get some sparrings again now 2010-09-11T23:41:41 hahaha 2010-09-11T23:41:46 err 2010-09-11T23:41:50 don't ask why my bot is attacking such far planets 2010-09-11T23:41:58 fail. I meant java and typed google 2010-09-11T23:41:58 drewrobb: my bot is like NOOOOOOOOOOOOOooOOoOooOOoOOoOOooOoOoOoOooooooo..... 2010-09-11T23:42:10 @whereis tcpserver 2010-09-11T23:42:11 greghaynes: Error: "whereis" is not a valid command. 2010-09-11T23:42:12 i have the same issue 2010-09-11T23:42:12 have to tweak it a little bit more :) 2010-09-11T23:42:16 yay 2010-09-11T23:42:22 my hit and run technique actually worked this time 2010-09-11T23:42:23 http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284262285|caytchen|greghaynes 2010-09-11T23:42:24 @whatis tcpserver 2010-09-11T23:42:24 greghaynes: tcpserver = http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/ 2010-09-11T23:42:26 aha 2010-09-11T23:42:30 contestbot: alias add whereis whatis 2010-09-11T23:42:30 amstan: The operation succeeded. 2010-09-11T23:42:36 deepblue: your bot is really nice 2010-09-11T23:42:38 caytchen: Hey, thats me! 2010-09-11T23:42:42 *** JensT1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T23:42:49 amstan: off hand how do i configure the site to point to a certain db 2010-09-11T23:43:07 caytchen: you just made me wtf 2010-09-11T23:43:15 now i have to teach him to know the enemies move before he knows it himself #include 2010-09-11T23:43:21 i must have overfitted my bot, it wins %90 against v0.2 2010-09-11T23:43:58 anyone using any ml algorithms? 2010-09-11T23:44:00 i have the problem that my current version looses against my older version but my older version looses against many other bots Oo 2010-09-11T23:44:07 drewrobb: well 0.31 does seem objectively better than 0.2 2010-09-11T23:44:07 just use pw.GoBackATurn() 2010-09-11T23:44:16 hehe 2010-09-11T23:44:36 yeah while I was gone 0.31 did some great games against my bot 2010-09-11T23:44:44 td123: thinking about it! no code yet. 2010-09-11T23:44:45 dstufft: in www/ http://pastebin.com/VyqrVaDz 2010-09-11T23:44:47 a1k0n: yeah, but it gets destroyed by you and deepblue 2010-09-11T23:44:53 td123: not yet, but planning for a reservoir 2010-09-11T23:44:55 jmp_buf delorean; 2010-09-11T23:45:03 dstufft: you have to create it 2010-09-11T23:45:10 lol 2010-09-11T23:45:15 drewrobb: not necessarily against mine.. 2010-09-11T23:45:28 are you guys that planning on implementing ml going to use neural networks? 2010-09-11T23:45:32 no way 2010-09-11T23:46:10 td123: yep, as I just said, planning on using a reservoir to predict the oponents next move and countermove it 2010-09-11T23:46:20 I don't think neural networks will be a good approach here 2010-09-11T23:46:36 i think many things will be a good approach 2010-09-11T23:46:37 JensT1: what do you mean by a reservior? 2010-09-11T23:46:37 i love it 2010-09-11T23:46:49 i've never heard that term in this context 2010-09-11T23:47:04 i wonder what win percentage the final bots will have against these current top bots 2010-09-11T23:47:29 i can't believe i just did this to count users in here: http://pastebin.com/AGbQNc58 2010-09-11T23:47:30 who's doing ml? 2010-09-11T23:47:35 a1k0n: it's a recurrent neural network with random internal weights, with 1 or 2 output layers. where you train the output layer 2010-09-11T23:47:36 my ML thought is determining a probability distribution that an enemy will send N ships to planet X on turn Y 2010-09-11T23:47:47 http://www.reservoir-computing.org/ 2010-09-11T23:47:58 JensT1: huh, interesting 2010-09-11T23:47:59 amstan: your client doesn't report that dor you? 2010-09-11T23:48:06 mmh 2010-09-11T23:48:11 quite interesting 2010-09-11T23:48:12 are neural nets and other things really a option here? 2010-09-11T23:48:14 it's good at time prediction 2010-09-11T23:48:14 jmcarthur: idk how, you're welcome to tell me, i use konversation 2010-09-11T23:48:24 ah, not familiar with it 2010-09-11T23:48:25 i mean it doesn't look like you'll be able to keep persistent data 2010-09-11T23:48:31 i'm not a KDE/Qt guy 2010-09-11T23:48:35 amstan, rofl, my client tells me that information 2010-09-11T23:48:43 well you have to train it before you submit it 2010-09-11T23:49:02 and you can train it by downloading other peoples' games. 2010-09-11T23:49:11 true 2010-09-11T23:49:12 ah okay 2010-09-11T23:49:14 didn't think of that 2010-09-11T23:49:23 caytchen: also.. tcp server 2010-09-11T23:49:30 you could download all my games and train it to play perfect against me 2010-09-11T23:49:44 *** computerwiz_222 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T23:50:02 *** computerwiz_222 has left #aichallenge 2010-09-11T23:50:04 amstan: I just had an idea re. people running nodes not beeing allowed to compete: What if the nodes run inside a vm that the organizers choose a root pw for and the bot files only get uploaded to /dev/shm (i.e. "ram disk") this way the server owner can't access the files and also mounting the image outside of the vm doesn't help because the bots are not stored on disk 2010-09-11T23:50:10 *** computerwiz_222 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T23:50:24 ulope: still rather sketchy 2010-09-11T23:50:28 *** computerwiz_222 has left #aichallenge 2010-09-11T23:50:33 deepblue: yep, and the organisers wouldn't really be able to tell we do player specific behaviour 2010-09-11T23:50:44 ulope: i hacked vms at my last job. it's easy 2010-09-11T23:50:56 *** computerwiz_222 has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T23:50:58 well it's not about player specific behaviour 2010-09-11T23:51:07 ulope: even (especially) to read stuff in memory 2010-09-11T23:51:09 since it's a bit to complicated to trac back where what decision came from 2010-09-11T23:51:15 it's just to counter good strategie 2010-09-11T23:51:24 computerwiz_222: you're probably the lowest class compwiz here 2010-09-11T23:51:27 computerwiz_222: lol 2010-09-11T23:51:34 deepblue: just training for 1bot would make it very specific 2010-09-11T23:51:36 ulope: (the project was in-memory forensics on a live system) 2010-09-11T23:51:38 nginx: http://ai.dstufft.com/ 2010-09-11T23:51:40 amstan: scum 2010-09-11T23:51:41 jmcarthur: Hm... yeah I guess you could use a debugger to peek into the process memory 2010-09-11T23:51:45 computerwiz_222: tims? 2010-09-11T23:51:45 it would fail hard against any other probably ifyou really over fit it 2010-09-11T23:51:51 yes 2010-09-11T23:51:58 you would only be able to beat me :) 2010-09-11T23:52:06 amstan: YOUR THE LOWEST CLASS OF COMPUTERWIZ! lol :P 2010-09-11T23:52:14 computerwiz_222: #hypertriangle if you want some quiet 2010-09-11T23:52:19 amstan: But then the question is: what is people running nodes stopping from simply signing up under a different name 2010-09-11T23:52:19 which would give you a nice elo score on the tcp server right now ;) 2010-09-11T23:52:44 ulope: what is stopping me from singing up under a different name? 2010-09-11T23:52:45 what do you guys mean with 'nodes'? 2010-09-11T23:52:49 ulope: the basic assumption that anybody in the field of security has to make is that if they have the hardware and it's running, you can't do anything to stop it 2010-09-11T23:53:01 amstan: nothing, you can even reuse your mail adress 2010-09-11T23:53:02 deepblue: decentralization 2010-09-11T23:53:05 deepblue: see topic 2010-09-11T23:53:11 j3camero: still here? 2010-09-11T23:53:18 dstufft: he'll be back in 30 min 2010-09-11T23:53:24 even non-running hardware can be cracked if you have *all* the hardware 2010-09-11T23:53:34 amstan: ok, the site is up and running on my vps under nginx 2010-09-11T23:53:41 amstan: Exactly thats my point. If you have to trust that people don't sign up under another name whats the point of excluding them in the first place 2010-09-11T23:53:42 dstufft: that was fast! 2010-09-11T23:53:42 okay whats that http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284262763|caytchen|drewrobb0.31 heh 2010-09-11T23:53:44 http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/canvas?game_id=1284258834|copybot|dwc001 2010-09-11T23:53:46 uh 2010-09-11T23:53:48 ok 2010-09-11T23:53:57 jmcarthur: i do it for a living :p 2010-09-11T23:54:02 well sort of 2010-09-11T23:54:05 heh 2010-09-11T23:54:10 ulope: that rule is in place mostly because of winners 2010-09-11T23:54:12 i don't want my code on other peoples server :/ 2010-09-11T23:54:16 i techincally write web apps for a living 2010-09-11T23:54:42 ulope: if you're contributing somehow we will have your identity, and if you win we will as well(if you want prizes) 2010-09-11T23:54:48 ulope: if those match, you're disqualified 2010-09-11T23:54:57 when your server is under heavy load, there's nothing quite like a userbase of developers 2010-09-11T23:55:03 dstufft: this is how I did it 2010-09-11T23:55:04 https://zeus.ugent.be/wiki/Aichallenge 2010-09-11T23:55:13 maybe put something like that on the wiki? 2010-09-11T23:55:23 amstan: Sure. I'm just hypothesizing here 2010-09-11T23:55:40 JensT1: ? 2010-09-11T23:55:56 seting up a seperate site 2010-09-11T23:55:58 but yea techinally a web dev, but since i run my own business i do the sys admining too 2010-09-11T23:56:04 JensT1: he's done already, also: 2010-09-11T23:56:10 JensT1: oh this site is just a test site to make sure it all works fine on nginx 2010-09-11T23:56:11 contestbot: @what sampledb 2010-09-11T23:56:12 amstan: Error: "@what" is not a valid command. 2010-09-11T23:56:18 caytchen: the center means nothing to me! 2010-09-11T23:56:20 contestbot: where sampledb 2010-09-11T23:56:20 amstan: sampledb = http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~amstan/aichallenge/sample.sql 2010-09-11T23:56:26 JensT1: that ^^^ 2010-09-11T23:56:31 amstan: is there a user/pw in the sampledb i can login with 2010-09-11T23:56:35 that would have been handy 2010-09-11T23:56:39 *** Snowplan has joined #aichallenge 2010-09-11T23:56:43 dstufft: no, they're blanked out 2010-09-11T23:56:44 amstan, the setting for number of users in channel might be in konversation nicklist configuration dialog, but I am not sure as I don't have konversation installed 2010-09-11T23:56:48 since I reverse engineerd the db scheme and contents 2010-09-11T23:57:02 amstan: ok 2010-09-11T23:57:13 fwiw that nginx server is using apc cache too 2010-09-11T23:57:24 which is a speed up if you arnt using an opcode cache 2010-09-11T23:57:37 JensT1: i think i did it after you've setup your site 2010-09-11T23:57:53 and suhosin patch too 2010-09-11T23:58:00 dstufft: ok.. good work, can you write a wiki article about it? 2010-09-11T23:58:02 security++ 2010-09-11T23:58:04 dstufft: and then make an issue? 2010-09-11T23:58:21 dstufft: also.. what's suhosin patch? i never found out what it meant 2010-09-11T23:58:37 How long does it usually take for bots to get ranked 2010-09-11T23:59:15 Snowplan: rankings are offline right now, we had an unexpected number of ppl showing up, server's kinda dying 2010-09-11T23:59:26 amstan: suhosin adds more security shit, it does a bunch of stuff 2010-09-11T23:59:26 sec 2010-09-11T23:59:35 Snowplan: tournament engine is offine* rankings are still up, but they're frozen pretty much 2010-09-11T23:59:35 http://www.hardened-php.net/suhosin/a_feature_list.html