2010-10-25T00:02:03 *** davidjliu_ has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-10-25T00:05:10 *** O1athe has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-10-25T00:11:43 Top 10 players: Hazard(3916), bocsimacko(3891), felixcoto(3888), jambachili(3765), sin_sun(3754), cfaftw(3750), davidjliu(3737), luksian(3709), RebelXT(3704), dmj111(3692) 2010-10-25T00:15:51 *** john2020 has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T00:20:52 no any time 2010-10-25T00:24:02 *** seisatsu has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2010-10-25T00:28:36 Accoun: say what? 2010-10-25T00:37:33 *** Mathnerd314 has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-10-25T00:41:25 *** Utkarsh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-10-25T00:41:44 *** HadiaZ has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T00:45:28 *** Utkarsh has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T00:59:56 *** virdo has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-10-25T01:08:32 *** Titankiller has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-10-25T01:09:28 *** seisatsu has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T01:11:43 Top 10 players: Hazard(3928), bocsimacko(3900), felixcoto(3885), jambachili(3788), sin_sun(3756), cfaftw(3750), davidjliu(3738), luksian(3719), RebelXT(3705), dmj111(3694) 2010-10-25T01:13:11 *** delt0r has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T01:13:34 *** delt0r___ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-10-25T01:13:34 *** hellman has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T01:29:12 *** john2020 has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-10-25T01:45:36 *** hellman has quit IRC (Quit: buffer overflow) 2010-10-25T01:45:55 *** hellman has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T01:56:27 *** Utkarsh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2010-10-25T02:01:52 *** Utkarsh has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T02:07:57 *** wvdschel has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T02:07:58 *** wvdschel has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T02:11:43 Top 10 players: Hazard(3918), bocsimacko(3901), felixcoto(3876), jambachili(3781), cfaftw(3740), sin_sun(3730), davidjliu(3728), dmj111(3716), luksian(3706), RebelXT(3698) 2010-10-25T02:18:51 *** aerique has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T02:19:59 *** TheMacca has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T02:30:50 *** hornairs has quit IRC (Quit: hornairs) 2010-10-25T02:33:18 *** sigh has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-10-25T02:37:18 *** bartwe_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-10-25T02:40:34 *** Utkarsh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2010-10-25T02:46:01 *** Utkarsh has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T03:01:36 *** CIA-101 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-10-25T03:11:45 Top 10 players: Hazard(3914), bocsimacko(3900), felixcoto(3879), jambachili(3789), cfaftw(3745), davidjliu(3722), Raschi(3713), sin_sun(3706), luksian(3702), RebelXT(3690) 2010-10-25T03:15:49 *** SpaceBison_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T03:22:24 *** jaspervdj has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T03:25:28 *** TheMacca has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-10-25T03:33:35 *** Epona666 has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T03:44:28 *** SpaceBison_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-10-25T04:10:15 *** CIA-100 has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T04:11:33 *** perror has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T04:11:45 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3921), Hazard(3885), felixcoto(3865), dmj111(3780), jambachili(3760), luksian(3728), cfaftw(3720), Raschi(3718), davidjliu(3700), sin_sun(3679) 2010-10-25T04:17:27 *** Naktibalda has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T04:22:01 *** narnach1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T04:22:01 *** narnach1 is now known as narnach_mb 2010-10-25T04:22:07 *** Itkovian has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T04:29:54 *** yasith has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-10-25T04:38:16 *** antimatroid1 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-10-25T04:39:30 *** antimatroid has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T04:42:39 *** yasith has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T04:43:21 *** Palmik has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T04:45:22 *** HadiaZ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-10-25T04:46:42 *** jesionaj has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2010-10-25T05:05:02 *** jesionaj has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T05:06:46 *** Itkovian_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T05:07:22 *** Itkovian has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-10-25T05:07:22 *** Itkovian_ is now known as Itkovian 2010-10-25T05:11:44 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3912), Hazard(3878), felixcoto(3865), jambachili(3760), dmj111(3748), luksian(3711), cfaftw(3709), davidjliu(3687), sin_sun(3683), rsergio(3669) 2010-10-25T05:16:07 *** p4p4 has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T05:29:20 *** aerique has quit IRC (Quit: ...) 2010-10-25T05:33:12 *** Florian95 has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T05:38:03 *** mega1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-10-25T05:43:21 *** mega1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T05:59:42 *** Appleman1234 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-10-25T06:11:43 *** Blkt has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T06:11:45 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3875), Hazard(3848), felixcoto(3844), dmj111(3802), jambachili(3753), luksian(3695), cfaftw(3684), davidjliu(3675), Raschi(3668), Arekku(3659) 2010-10-25T06:12:47 *** Titankiller has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T06:14:28 turns out that 'git push --tags public master' pushes all tags and not only those on master 2010-10-25T06:15:15 which is a great way to push private stuff to the public repo 2010-10-25T06:16:59 *** Appleman1234 has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T06:22:09 *** Appleman1234 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-10-25T06:24:50 antimatroid: the worst I assumed is that the enemy fires everything they have at a planet. But, I make the enemy omnipotent, and assume that they can fire everything at every planet. Still, I have enough ships to take some things, so that is what I do. 2010-10-25T06:28:35 *** Titankiller has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-10-25T06:35:07 *** Titankiller has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T06:37:32 dmj111: ah fair enough, i was considering having the opponent send all future ships at every one of my planets 2010-10-25T06:37:56 and saving ships at some planets to counter any of those if necessary, but the moment you fall behind the concept stops doing anything in theory 2010-10-25T06:38:18 *** Appleman1234 has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T06:39:07 well if you are behind. perhaps the best you can do, is lose slowly. 2010-10-25T06:39:23 ie in terms of income, ships and postion 2010-10-25T06:39:27 position 2010-10-25T06:39:55 assuming no mistake as far as the enemy is concerned 2010-10-25T06:40:00 it may not actually be behind though 2010-10-25T06:40:08 they may have expanded too fast 2010-10-25T06:40:30 but it's going to assume those moves have gone through and then send ships at us, and i'd be backing ships up based on them ending up with more growth 2010-10-25T06:41:15 yeah... my code is a bunch of approximations. they are all rough enough that the bot isn't immoblized by fear. 2010-10-25T06:42:31 yea, my current bot is imoblized by fear on the first turn... OMG ships== and income== 2010-10-25T06:42:38 oh, I guess this will make more sense. This assumption is in my attack code. My attack code is happy to win a planet for a single turn. In that case, even if I am behind, I may still have enough to take a planet. 2010-10-25T06:42:55 *** Appleman1234 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-10-25T06:43:01 delt0r: yep. change one parameter, and the bot quits losing to ragebot! 2010-10-25T06:43:27 just a joke. my bot has always lost to ragebot because it didn't have any defense. 2010-10-25T06:43:47 lol 2010-10-25T06:44:19 well rage bot on "bad maps" is pretty close to a optimal strat IMO 2010-10-25T06:45:02 why would you call them bad maps? 2010-10-25T06:45:13 lots of them would be maybe 2010-10-25T06:45:14 note the quotation marks 2010-10-25T06:45:35 yeah, but why not some maps or whatever? 2010-10-25T06:45:40 the bad came from somewhere :P 2010-10-25T06:45:54 in this case when home planets are closer to each other than basically any practical neutral 2010-10-25T06:46:10 they are rather boring in that they are normally a draw 2010-10-25T06:46:22 it's funny when you see someone not expand when they could have 2010-10-25T06:46:22 aka "bad maps" 2010-10-25T06:46:25 not so much when it's me 2010-10-25T06:52:12 *** iFire has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-10-25T06:53:00 *** iFire has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T06:59:23 ah eureka 2010-10-25T06:59:34 i worked out how to do resolutions for future moves crap 2010-10-25T06:59:38 too bad i have an exam tomorrow 2010-10-25T06:59:42 i shall implement it after that 2010-10-25T07:00:05 *** iFire has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-10-25T07:01:03 anyone here uses http://github.com/albertz/planet_wars-cpp.git? 2010-10-25T07:07:19 yes 2010-10-25T07:10:35 *** iFire has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T07:10:53 *** jesionaj has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-10-25T07:11:45 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3880), dmj111(3850), Hazard(3847), felixcoto(3834), jambachili(3743), davidjliu(3689), luksian(3688), cfaftw(3683), Arekku(3670), sin_sun(3660) 2010-10-25T07:13:07 *** area has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T07:18:51 2 days 2010-10-25T07:25:32 till what, you are on top? :P 2010-10-25T07:26:27 *** Bobng has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T07:27:44 Lithosphere: isn't it doing one turn too many? 2010-10-25T07:28:07 *** Blkt has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2010-10-25T07:28:51 with -n 200 it goes from 1 to 202 2010-10-25T07:41:52 *** aerique has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T07:45:06 *** Titankiller has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-10-25T07:46:16 what is ip:port of tcpserver? 2010-10-25T07:47:33 72.44.46.68 995, thx 2010-10-25T07:47:36 :) 2010-10-25T07:56:03 *** Titankiller has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T08:04:05 Accoun: are you thinking the contest is over in two days? If so, we have another month, not just two days. 2010-10-25T08:04:19 I am guessing that from your "no any time" comments earlier. 2010-10-25T08:04:33 *** Florian95 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-10-25T08:04:57 he doesn't seem to be great with english, that wouldn't surprise me 2010-10-25T08:05:20 i'd have nothing worth submitting if it was in 2 days 2010-10-25T08:08:05 yeah. his english is far better than any other language i speak though :) 2010-10-25T08:08:16 yes, same with i 2010-10-25T08:08:18 *** Florian95 has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T08:08:29 wait, you mean c++ isn't a spoken language :P 2010-10-25T08:08:47 Saturday Nov 27, 2010: submission deadline. No submissions will be accepted after 11:59 PM. 2010-10-25T08:08:48 I agree with him, it should be over in two days. 2010-10-25T08:08:53 it has a small, dwindling population :) 2010-10-25T08:08:59 it's october :P 2010-10-25T08:09:20 mega1: :P 2010-10-25T08:09:24 its octouber? 2010-10-25T08:09:38 the current month is october, next month is november 2010-10-25T08:09:42 you have a whole month to work on your bot 2010-10-25T08:09:44 Yes. You get an extra month ! :) 33 days. 2010-10-25T08:09:50 enjoy 2010-10-25T08:09:53 33 days? 2010-10-25T08:09:58 i will die 2010-10-25T08:10:15 i can't wait for exams to finish 2010-10-25T08:10:16 have you been working without sleep on this the past few days? 2010-10-25T08:10:18 Ha. Nice one. 2010-10-25T08:11:45 Top 10 players: dmj111(3885), bocsimacko(3881), felixcoto(3843), Hazard(3843), jambachili(3746), GreenTea(3690), cfaftw(3689), luksian(3679), davidjliu(3679), sin_sun(3658) 2010-10-25T08:11:58 dmj111: nice :P 2010-10-25T08:13:59 32 nm tecnology intel exlusive? 2010-10-25T08:15:15 *** antimatroid1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T08:16:08 antimatroid: thanks. you, and the rating system, are too kind. As soon as I get more matches with bocsimacko, my bot will go back to reality. 2010-10-25T08:16:37 is there any source of drawing planets ? 2010-10-25T08:17:04 you mean drawing the maps? 2010-10-25T08:17:11 yes 2010-10-25T08:17:18 one second.. 2010-10-25T08:17:39 *** antimatroid has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-10-25T08:19:45 you can use this tool : http://spz.nofate.com/planetwars/visualizer/ to cut and paste game data into an alternate viewer, that contains planet ids. 2010-10-25T08:20:15 I have a dumb script to create maps on a javascript canvas in black and white. If you are interested, I will clean it up and post it (but not for about 16 hours....) 2010-10-25T08:21:21 here is a forum post about that visualizer: http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=937 2010-10-25T08:23:05 awesome ) 2010-10-25T08:23:09 :)* 2010-10-25T08:24:12 thx dmj111 2010-10-25T08:25:31 hellman: i made png files of the maps that come with that starter packs: http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=820 2010-10-25T08:26:00 *** Titankiller has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-10-25T08:26:56 mega1: nice work on your bot :) 2010-10-25T08:28:17 aerique, that's cool, but i want to draw something on/near that planets. The thing is to get right image coords from game coords 2010-10-25T08:28:53 hellman: ah okey, i just skimmed the convo :) 2010-10-25T08:31:52 i am trying to find that code in showgame.jar, and i think your pngs will be very useful :) 2010-10-25T08:32:08 i feel for accoun 2010-10-25T08:32:21 another month of his life just got tied right down 2010-10-25T08:32:49 i keep assuming competitors are male, are there any known counterexamples? 2010-10-25T08:33:27 *** aerique has quit IRC (Quit: ...) 2010-10-25T08:34:10 *** kwargs has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T08:34:40 *** kwargs has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2010-10-25T08:35:03 *** JensTi has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T08:38:48 *** espes_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T08:38:59 *** espes_ has left #aichallenge 2010-10-25T08:41:12 male? 2010-10-25T08:41:35 *** JensTi1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T08:42:24 *** JensTi has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-10-25T08:46:59 *** perestrelka has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-10-25T08:51:07 *** perestrelka has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T09:05:50 Intel® Core™2 Quad Processor Q9505S to buy or not to buy? that is a qurstion 2010-10-25T09:09:46 *** tapwater has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T09:11:46 Top 10 players: dmj111(3882), bocsimacko(3881), Hazard(3839), felixcoto(3838), jambachili(3749), GreenTea(3694), cfaftw(3684), luksian(3679), davidjliu(3671), sin_sun(3656) 2010-10-25T09:12:30 *** delt0r___ has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T09:13:52 *** delt0r has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2010-10-25T09:15:54 morning 2010-10-25T09:16:00 morning 2010-10-25T09:16:05 we shall agree for once 2010-10-25T09:16:10 it's just after midnight :P 2010-10-25T09:21:10 hah 2010-10-25T09:21:15 where are you located hawaii? 2010-10-25T09:21:35 or is it east asia? 2010-10-25T09:22:11 how is your treebot coming along? 2010-10-25T09:23:00 *** Azrathud has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-10-25T09:23:07 *** Commandir has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T09:23:18 tasmania :P in australia 2010-10-25T09:23:25 i have an exam tomorrow 2010-10-25T09:23:35 so naturally i'm working on a new bot revision, i'll be testing soonish 2010-10-25T09:23:51 it's not worrying about what the opponent does atm though 2010-10-25T09:23:58 it is using a tree though 2010-10-25T09:24:01 aah 2010-10-25T09:24:08 i forget about australia since its way down there 2010-10-25T09:24:18 ah k 2010-10-25T09:24:54 i want to see how your new bot does 2010-10-25T09:25:12 don't expect too much, my recent revisions have been terrible 2010-10-25T09:25:20 heh 2010-10-25T09:25:21 but i've ironed out a lot of bugs that i managed to introduce 2010-10-25T09:25:37 yea its the same problem for me 2010-10-25T09:25:49 i keep introducing regressions and revisiting rules i had put in earlier 2010-10-25T09:26:09 mostly though i am replacing my complex rules with simpler ones which strangely work much better at times 2010-10-25T09:26:43 i had an interesting result before 2010-10-25T09:26:53 i was losing non stop to an old bot on a map in like 130 turns 2010-10-25T09:26:58 then one go it decides to win in 200 2010-10-25T09:27:06 play the same bot again 3 times and lost in the normal turns 2010-10-25T09:27:19 guess that's tree generation for you 2010-10-25T09:27:52 heh 2010-10-25T09:28:03 *** Florian95 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving...) 2010-10-25T09:28:14 hmm though that doesn'tm ake sense 2010-10-25T09:28:20 unless you have a random factor in there 2010-10-25T09:28:28 or a timer which caused your tree bot to run out of time 2010-10-25T09:28:40 no, i think it would have just generated some nodes further 2010-10-25T09:28:43 and the payoffs changed 2010-10-25T09:28:54 or less and my tree sucks :P 2010-10-25T09:29:13 ah 2010-10-25T09:29:32 so why would t generate nodes further one time and not the other 2010-10-25T09:29:44 only thing that makes sense is if it ran out of time or something 2010-10-25T09:30:35 i ffeel good when my bot happens to beat Accoun* variants 2010-10-25T09:30:38 i have a queue of extendable nodes :P 2010-10-25T09:30:40 and Hazard* variants 2010-10-25T09:30:46 so i just extend for a certain amount of time 2010-10-25T09:30:56 yea as i said it time 2010-10-25T09:31:01 when i have a decent running bot i give them some pain 2010-10-25T09:31:03 probably just increase the time allowed per turn 2010-10-25T09:31:07 but not as much as they give me 2010-10-25T09:31:13 and see if you consistently beat it 2010-10-25T09:31:22 then you just need to work on increasing your speed 2010-10-25T09:31:25 of node searches 2010-10-25T09:31:33 *** Florian95 has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T09:31:39 i would say initially play with a higher timer 2010-10-25T09:31:42 against older bots 2010-10-25T09:31:42 problem is the longer i give it the longer the damn games take 2010-10-25T09:31:52 to get your tree logic right 2010-10-25T09:32:01 yeah, atm i'm just working on bugs 2010-10-25T09:32:10 the codebase is solid i'm pretty sure 2010-10-25T09:33:00 ah k 2010-10-25T09:33:08 http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=690886 2010-10-25T09:36:33 *** lavalamp_ has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-10-25T09:37:55 its depressing to see mega1's bot 2010-10-25T09:38:02 it destroy's everyone :-\ 2010-10-25T09:41:14 i hate the anti bug 2010-10-25T09:41:22 something is working where i expected it to not 2010-10-25T09:48:34 heh 2010-10-25T09:51:19 *** Itkovian has quit IRC (Quit: Itkovian) 2010-10-25T09:59:55 *** Florian95 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving...) 2010-10-25T10:01:22 *** Azrathud has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T10:11:46 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3877), dmj111(3869), felixcoto(3840), Hazard(3835), jambachili(3738), GreenTea(3702), luksian(3673), cfaftw(3672), rsergio(3659), davidjliu(3659) 2010-10-25T10:13:35 *** JamesMG has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T10:14:06 *** Olathe has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T10:14:10 *** Olathe has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T10:21:15 *** Florian95 has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T10:22:36 *** eburnette has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T10:23:31 *** phreeza has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T10:25:03 *** Sarin has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T10:39:01 *** JensTi1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2010-10-25T10:40:02 *** boegel has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T10:43:23 *** JensTi has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T10:50:26 *** Frontier has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T10:54:04 *** Bilal has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T10:57:15 hi 2010-10-25T10:58:25 *** smellyhippy2 has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T11:01:21 *** Azrathud has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T11:02:29 *** smellyhippy has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-10-25T11:02:31 *** smellyhippy2 has quit IRC (Changing host) 2010-10-25T11:02:31 *** smellyhippy2 has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T11:02:33 *** Sylph has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T11:10:48 *** smellyhippy2 is now known as smellyhippy 2010-10-25T11:11:46 Top 10 players: dmj111(3865), bocsimacko(3861), felixcoto(3834), Hazard(3830), jambachili(3733), GreenTea(3709), luksian(3683), rsergio(3665), cfaftw(3658), sin_sun(3657) 2010-10-25T11:15:24 *** Bilal has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2010-10-25T11:16:37 *** Azrathud has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-10-25T11:16:53 *** Florian95 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving...) 2010-10-25T11:17:30 *** rwa has quit IRC (Quit: rwa) 2010-10-25T11:19:44 *** Florian95 has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T11:20:01 *** seisatsu has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2010-10-25T11:26:48 *** wvdschel has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2010-10-25T11:30:15 *** boegel has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-10-25T11:36:15 *** narnach_mb has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2010-10-25T11:38:15 *** shades has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T11:38:57 *** Epona666 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-10-25T11:39:55 *** Epona666 has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T11:53:15 *** lavalamp_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T12:00:50 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Quit: bhasker) 2010-10-25T12:09:01 *** JensTi has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-10-25T12:11:48 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3855), dmj111(3849), Hazard(3847), felixcoto(3835), jambachili(3749), GreenTea(3719), luksian(3690), sin_sun(3676), cfaftw(3675), davidjliu(3668) 2010-10-25T12:21:49 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T12:24:26 *** JensTi has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T12:28:01 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-10-25T12:32:51 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T12:42:38 *** Palmik has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-10-25T12:47:53 *** Palmik has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T12:47:58 *** Florian95 has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-10-25T13:00:46 *** Cyndre has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T13:06:13 *** Sylph has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2010-10-25T13:06:25 *** Sylph has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T13:07:04 *** Epona666 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-10-25T13:11:49 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3859), dmj111(3854), Hazard(3843), felixcoto(3826), jambachili(3753), GreenTea(3735), luksian(3706), davidjliu(3679), cfaftw(3672), sin_sun(3663) 2010-10-25T13:12:30 *** RainCT has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T13:15:32 *** narnach1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T13:15:32 *** narnach1 is now known as narnach_mb 2010-10-25T13:15:37 *** narnach has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-10-25T13:16:02 *** narnach has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T13:16:42 *** nigg_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T13:17:19 *** iFire has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-10-25T13:17:31 *** iFire has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T13:19:43 *** Bobng has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-10-25T13:22:03 quiet today 2010-10-25T13:22:53 *** bhasker_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T13:23:58 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-10-25T13:27:17 *** boegel has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T13:28:21 has anyone used Java tcp client? it always says "unknown exception: null" at 1st turn.. 2010-10-25T13:28:29 *** Sylph has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T13:29:05 i've got it here http://github.com/apinkin/planetwars-python-kit 2010-10-25T13:29:08 Rank Name Elo 2010-10-25T13:29:08 1 bocsimacko-b0.31 738 2010-10-25T13:29:09 2 Accoun209_2 503 2010-10-25T13:29:09 3 Hazard18 465 2010-10-25T13:29:24 *** Sylph has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2010-10-25T13:30:00 235 and 28 points distance 2010-10-25T13:30:40 38 2010-10-25T13:31:08 bocsimacko is a god 2010-10-25T13:31:28 *** dwchandler has left #aichallenge 2010-10-25T13:31:50 very good 2010-10-25T13:32:25 unknoun wining algoritm 2010-10-25T13:33:01 235 pints better!!! 2010-10-25T13:33:06 235 points better!!! 2010-10-25T13:33:21 *** boegel has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-10-25T13:33:53 mega1 said he used some sort of minimax and he spends a lot of time on his evaluation function 2010-10-25T13:34:27 realy? whot time he think on move? 2010-10-25T13:35:00 realy? whou time he think on move? 2010-10-25T13:35:08 realy? whou many time he think on move? 2010-10-25T13:35:51 I think he said he moved it to .8 seconds to avoid timeouts on the main server 2010-10-25T13:36:21 lavalamp_: how's your minimax going? 2010-10-25T13:36:37 JamesMG, dumb as rocks :) 2010-10-25T13:36:47 good company then 2010-10-25T13:36:54 for mine I mean 2010-10-25T13:37:00 slightly smarter than yours, it won the two or three games they played over the weekend 2010-10-25T13:37:17 I'm working on improving my move generation now... 2010-10-25T13:37:22 I spent about 30 minutes cleaning up some dumb scoring function issues sunday morning 2010-10-25T13:37:33 which improved it by 100ELO, but at -700 that isn't much 2010-10-25T13:37:34 yeah I saw yours went up a bit 2010-10-25T13:38:01 good news is mine does 10-20k nodes per second 2010-10-25T13:38:16 nice, I got mine to about 9k/second 2010-10-25T13:38:34 unfortunately it hits that with single ply and decent numbers of planets owned 2010-10-25T13:38:43 so I need to work on move generation some more too 2010-10-25T13:38:45 yeah so I can add more complicated stuff to the generators. 2010-10-25T13:41:17 JamesMG, my move generator played your old code: http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=681219 2010-10-25T13:41:20 *** janzert has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-10-25T13:42:47 or bocsimacko-b0.31 run mylti instances or very fast thinking 2010-10-25T13:42:48 *** janzert has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T13:43:19 *** boegel has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T13:43:31 interesting, it seems fairly competant lavalamp_ 2010-10-25T13:43:31 tame betwin his games not propporcional namber of moves 2010-10-25T13:44:18 I need something clarified... 2010-10-25T13:44:24 JamesMG, it got lucky that game, it's got a horrible defense bug that I almost have fixed 2010-10-25T13:45:14 can someone explain this to me? 2010-10-25T13:45:15 http://kejo.be/ai_contest_game_6150378_step1and2.png 2010-10-25T13:45:31 I don't think my minimax bot has ever beaten my old bot 2010-10-25T13:46:13 boegel: looks right 2010-10-25T13:46:21 2+5+7+6+9 = 29 2010-10-25T13:46:56 *** Titankiller has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T13:48:44 i think it is fine, boegel, what is the problem? 2010-10-25T13:49:12 I was told here that the biggest fleet always wins 2010-10-25T13:49:36 so I implemented it such that the red fleets are thrown out 2010-10-25T13:49:36 you combine all ships to determine "fleet" size 2010-10-25T13:49:41 so, that must be wrong 2010-10-25T13:49:56 so it's essentially a defending fleet of 29 vs an attacking fleet of 29 2010-10-25T13:50:17 Zannick: the blue fleet still wins, but it's trimmed down by the combination of red fleets, and thus no longer able to conquer the planet? 2010-10-25T13:50:27 if it's a draw, the original player gets the planet 2010-10-25T13:50:35 right... 2010-10-25T13:50:47 I totally misinterpreted that 2010-10-25T13:50:53 but now it's clear, thx 2010-10-25T13:51:19 I hope that's a major reason why my bot only gets to rank ~750... :-/ 2010-10-25T13:56:36 fast bots make more games and all bots make more games with fast bots 2010-10-25T13:56:44 *** hellman has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-10-25T13:56:48 JamesMG, actually that's just my move generator, no minimax-- not sure if the minimax part makes it stronger or not :/ 2010-10-25T13:57:32 How is it choosing a move? 2010-10-25T13:57:38 Nice thing about my move generator bot is that it's really fast... 2010-10-25T13:57:39 any one wath bocsimacko-b0.31 play realtime? he fast thiking? 2010-10-25T13:58:31 JamesMG, heuristics, sigh... defend everything you can, fortify against potential threats, attack everything you can, route unused ships 2010-10-25T13:59:38 tame betwin his games not propporcional namber of moves 2010-10-25T13:59:44 or bocsimacko-b0.31 run mylti instances or very fast thinking 2010-10-25T14:00:05 I'm trying to figure out a way to trim my node count so I can go with deeper prediction, without giving up the neat coordinated moves it does 2010-10-25T14:00:44 think I will have to take away some of it's freedom 2010-10-25T14:01:18 I think its important that we only show the minimax engine good moves to evaluate 2010-10-25T14:01:23 amstan: is there any reason admins do not have moderator permissions on the forums? 2010-10-25T14:02:14 It's definitely wasting a lot of valuable time processing very obviously crappy moves 2010-10-25T14:04:21 To help keep my speed up, I made it so my defense and fortification code will only need to run once per node instead of once per move 2010-10-25T14:04:53 My "Move" object is a collection of Orders now 2010-10-25T14:05:59 I did one optimization that like quadrupled my node count 2010-10-25T14:06:02 but the Orders are generated without a purpose in mind 2010-10-25T14:06:09 oh? Feel like sharing? 2010-10-25T14:06:52 Instead of mapping out the future any time an order is added to the stack, I wait until someone asks for the planet's info at a particular turn 2010-10-25T14:07:25 lazy evaluation is useful :) 2010-10-25T14:07:31 Yes :) 2010-10-25T14:08:02 my biggest optimization was to not loop through every fleet each turn step in my prediction function, oops. 2010-10-25T14:08:41 I also made it so that if the future is impossible, it will start issuing anti-orders until it is possible-- that way my generators can map out as much of the future as they want without worrying about interfering with the next layer 2010-10-25T14:09:25 I wonder how fast mine would run if I used random order generation and what it would look like... 2010-10-25T14:09:52 RandomBot Part Two: The Randoming? 2010-10-25T14:09:59 hehe 2010-10-25T14:10:10 at that point I might as well do monte carlo, though... 2010-10-25T14:11:49 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3858), felixcoto(3840), Hazard(3831), dmj111(3824), jambachili(3739), luksian(3725), GreenTea(3710), davidjliu(3678), cfaftw(3668), sin_sun(3664) 2010-10-25T14:12:17 *** cfaftw has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T14:12:22 *** perror has quit IRC (Quit: Bye all !) 2010-10-25T14:12:46 *** eburnette has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-10-25T14:18:19 Maybe I can make my bot better than RageBot today! I'll feel accomplished then 2010-10-25T14:20:19 mine was still losing ragebot on some maps yesterday... 2010-10-25T14:20:25 *to ragebot 2010-10-25T14:20:33 mine just did this morning 2010-10-25T14:21:27 I added some specific code to make it always win against ragebot 2010-10-25T14:21:59 Yeah, I refuse to do that, I want it to beat the general case ^^ 2010-10-25T14:22:15 * raedwulf went back to the drawing board 2010-10-25T14:22:18 my old code draws against ragebot most of the time, because of some timidity code I put in 2010-10-25T14:23:01 I don't want to open it up and fix it though, since it's like 2000 lines of various strategies in there 2010-10-25T14:23:18 :o 2010-10-25T14:23:26 * raedwulf cowers 2010-10-25T14:23:30 well yes, it almost always drawed before sometimes it won, but 3 lines of code and it always won :p 2010-10-25T14:23:48 are you gonna keep working on your minimax code JamesMG? or do you have yet another botL 2010-10-25T14:23:52 *bot? 2010-10-25T14:23:59 I'm undecided lavalamp_ 2010-10-25T14:24:18 I have a cleaned up framework from my old one with no strategy in place yet 2010-10-25T14:24:37 but with the evaluation improvements the minimax one has led me to 2010-10-25T14:24:53 may go to that if I get tired of minimax :) 2010-10-25T14:25:22 i'm going to see how well i can do without minimax 2010-10-25T14:25:25 and then stop 2010-10-25T14:25:38 I added a connectedness metric to my evaluation function 2010-10-25T14:25:42 urgh 2010-10-25T14:25:52 I hate it when my bot loses it's first game 2010-10-25T14:25:55 as in, "is this planet in my lap or his"? 2010-10-25T14:25:56 gone high hopes :( 2010-10-25T14:26:09 it helped, a lot, but I think it may have just been noise since it played so badly 2010-10-25T14:26:12 bocsimacko bot is dominating 2010-10-25T14:26:35 i appreciate that it's written in lisp 2010-10-25T14:26:41 I'm debating stealing the ANN idea to tune my planet value function 2010-10-25T14:26:47 Yeah, how close together are the planets I own? On the theory that a centralize empire is better 2010-10-25T14:28:06 boegel: I agree 2010-10-25T14:30:40 *** yasith has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2010-10-25T14:36:36 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T14:37:40 i was hoping to do a sort of differential minimax.. no lookahead, but evaluate moves from both sides simultaneously instead of conditionally 2010-10-25T14:38:34 a1k0n I do that, although right now it lets player 2 see what player 1 did >.< 2010-10-25T14:38:48 well, right. that's... conditional 2010-10-25T14:38:55 ah, hm 2010-10-25T14:39:04 *** bhasker_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2010-10-25T14:39:07 as in, pretend you were the opponent, what would you do this turn 2010-10-25T14:39:10 but I'm set up to do it the other way, I just haven't turned it on 2010-10-25T14:39:13 basically, solve d/dx score=0 for each move x 2010-10-25T14:39:39 mine builds a nice table and plays prisoner's dilemma 2010-10-25T14:40:07 hmm. a payoff table? have you found any interesting payoff matrices? 2010-10-25T14:40:18 it sucks too much at the moment 2010-10-25T14:40:36 it's easy to find cycles when your moves are terrible 2010-10-25T14:40:37 * janzert is rather surprised that no one has tried a sort of recursive playoff matrix 2010-10-25T14:40:44 right, new bot is going on tcp 2010-10-25T14:40:48 i played a few games under retard 2010-10-25T14:40:53 janzert, what do you meanL 2010-10-25T14:40:56 it's almost the same as minimax but not quite 2010-10-25T14:40:56 mean? 2010-10-25T14:41:22 *** Frontier has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-10-25T14:41:23 err, payoff matrix not playoff 2010-10-25T14:41:24 how do you plan to make the payoff matrix? :P 2010-10-25T14:41:54 using the various move choices each corresponding as a strategy 2010-10-25T14:42:25 do you realise how many there are :P 2010-10-25T14:42:30 janzert, yeah, that's what I do 2010-10-25T14:42:37 I didn't know there was a word for it 2010-10-25T14:42:47 antimatroid1: yeah, but that's no different than minimax 2010-10-25T14:42:52 *** yasith has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T14:43:20 but the payoff matrix is the correct thing to use here instead of minimax since the moves are simultaneous 2010-10-25T14:43:28 lavalamp_: ahh, great 2010-10-25T14:43:40 you can do trees with imperfect information 2010-10-25T14:44:01 basically for any strategic game, there is an isomorphic extensive form representation and vice versa 2010-10-25T14:44:18 basically minimax is for extensive form games and simultaneous moves should be normal form 2010-10-25T14:44:23 hm, that could have worked for tron 2010-10-25T14:44:44 a1k0n: right, I never though of it till after tron was over 2010-10-25T14:44:45 using the payoff matrix will let me detect if a mixed strategy is appropriate 2010-10-25T14:45:24 it seems that would be difficult in tree form 2010-10-25T14:46:13 hey janzert, since you're here-- any progress towards installing go? :) 2010-10-25T14:46:45 sorry, not really. I do happen to be working a bit on fixing C# at the moment... 2010-10-25T14:46:59 which means upgrading it which could easily lead to adding golang :) 2010-10-25T14:47:06 yay :) 2010-10-25T14:47:44 hmm. it's basically equivalent to doing minimax with move evaulation once every other ply, but the alpha-beta pruning rules won't work 2010-10-25T14:47:54 janzert, If you run into any troubles, let me know, I can get you in touch with someone on the go team who has offered to help if I don't personally know the answer 2010-10-25T14:48:34 a1k0n yeah I'm still trying to figure out if there's a way to still do something like alpha-beta 2010-10-25T14:48:53 parts of the table could be dominated by other parts.. somehow. 2010-10-25T14:49:28 yeah I'm wondering if I detect domination before evaluating all the moves, if that will cause me to miss stuff. 2010-10-25T14:49:40 I think it will... :/ 2010-10-25T14:51:55 *** Itkovian has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T14:52:26 janzert: what happened? they should.. 2010-10-25T14:54:10 amstan: I was just trying to unsticky the email problem thread now that it's resolved and couldn't, looking in the admin control panel I see administrators have no moderator permissions 2010-10-25T14:54:26 janzert: can you make them full mods? 2010-10-25T14:54:29 they should have it 2010-10-25T14:54:36 bam, getting pounded by obligatory shampoo 2010-10-25T14:54:43 amstan: sure, just wanted to double check with you first 2010-10-25T14:55:01 i was also trying to move away from "administrators", wanted "contest organizers" to be those 2010-10-25T14:55:08 apparently i forgot about mod powers 2010-10-25T14:55:48 ahh, I didn't even look at which group I'm actually in at all 2010-10-25T14:57:20 I'll give contest organizers moderator permissions then 2010-10-25T14:58:57 *** bhasker_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T15:01:13 that did it 2010-10-25T15:01:31 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-10-25T15:02:22 *** Azrathud has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T15:04:53 *** Azrathud has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2010-10-25T15:05:17 *** Naktibalda has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716]) 2010-10-25T15:07:43 server really hates my code 2010-10-25T15:11:51 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3869), felixcoto(3823), Hazard(3815), dmj111(3812), jambachili(3723), luksian(3715), GreenTea(3697), sin_sun(3650), davidjliu(3649), cfaftw(3647) 2010-10-25T15:13:01 *** JensTi has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-10-25T15:25:48 http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=695902 2010-10-25T15:25:53 you don't see that very often :P 2010-10-25T15:26:32 *** JensTi has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T15:27:01 wait, it claims they had more ships than me at the end? 2010-10-25T15:27:10 but on my profile it called it a draw 2010-10-25T15:27:25 *** jesionaj has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T15:32:56 http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=696458 and i won that one 2010-10-25T15:32:59 somethings wrong 2010-10-25T15:34:54 Accoun: got you :P 2010-10-25T15:38:26 *** eburnette has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T15:39:51 *** Accoun has quit IRC () 2010-10-25T15:41:26 antimatroid1: lol 2010-10-25T15:41:28 *** fawek has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T15:47:03 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T15:49:22 *** bhasker_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-10-25T15:54:31 *** Appleman1234 has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T16:00:13 *** Naktibalda has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T16:05:15 *** fawek has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-10-25T16:11:50 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3854), felixcoto(3800), Hazard(3795), dmj111(3774), jambachili(3704), luksian(3703), GreenTea(3688), davidjliu(3643), sin_sun(3630), cfaftw(3628) 2010-10-25T16:13:12 antimatroid1: regarding game 695902 remember that the visualizer does not show the result of the final move 2010-10-25T16:13:38 and the last move the visualizer shows you are 2 ships down with a growth rate that is 2 larger 2010-10-25T16:13:49 so after the final move it is a draw 2010-10-25T16:14:01 one move shorter and you lose, one move longer and you win 2010-10-25T16:14:30 *** Palmik has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-10-25T16:15:35 *** narnach has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2010-10-25T16:19:44 *** Titankiller has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-10-25T16:23:21 *** TravisD has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T16:24:01 Where would I ask about allowing submissions using Groovy? That is, who would I contact to ask for a new language to be supported? 2010-10-25T16:25:01 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T16:25:36 Best is to add an issue requesting it in the issue tracker 2010-10-25T16:25:40 @repo 2010-10-25T16:25:41 janzert: repo = http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/ 2010-10-25T16:25:56 tcp URL? 2010-10-25T16:26:06 @tcp 2010-10-25T16:26:07 JamesMG: tcp = (#1) http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/, or (#2) http://72.44.46.68/ 2010-10-25T16:26:10 k, thx 2010-10-25T16:26:15 *** Titankiller has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T16:27:42 hey, this is new: "Sorry, you have to wait at least 10 minutes between submissions. This wait is waived if your current submission fails to successfully enter the contest." 2010-10-25T16:27:57 it's been around for a few days :) 2010-10-25T16:27:59 so, if you quickly fix a bug, you're being punished? :( 2010-10-25T16:28:07 kind of makes sense though 2010-10-25T16:28:09 but still 2010-10-25T16:28:11 annoying :P 2010-10-25T16:28:15 It turns out that there was already a request for Groovy, so I just "voted" for that issue. Hopefully it works out :) 2010-10-25T16:28:19 'cause I want to go to bed ! 2010-10-25T16:28:28 who's going to explain this to my wife? 2010-10-25T16:28:30 well, it encourages being more sure about your submission :P 2010-10-25T16:28:49 even 10 minute resubmits are a bit unfair as they are much quicker than you normally should get another game :P 2010-10-25T16:29:15 and prevents one guy from submitting four times in a minute every minute 2010-10-25T16:30:00 Also, is it possible to submit compiled .jar files as part of your bot? I'm assuming it is not 2010-10-25T16:30:12 they are wiped before compilation 2010-10-25T16:31:05 Zannick: yeah, makes sense 2010-10-25T16:31:19 *** Sarin has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-10-25T16:32:36 *** Appleman1234 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2010-10-25T16:33:52 *** Appleman1234 has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T16:37:57 *** narnach_mb has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2010-10-25T16:39:01 *** Appleman1234 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-10-25T16:39:50 *** cfaftw has quit IRC (Quit: going home) 2010-10-25T16:43:27 If I break C# nobody should get since it's already mostly broke right :P 2010-10-25T16:43:39 yeah we won't mind 2010-10-25T16:43:39 should get mad, that is 2010-10-25T16:44:04 well, so long as you fix it later :P 2010-10-25T16:45:09 anyone here familiar with it under ubuntu, my only concern at the moment is the set of packages listed in issue 101 is quite a bit different than what is installed on the server now 2010-10-25T16:45:32 *** choas has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T16:47:35 *** Appleman1234 has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T16:48:47 here goes nothing :) 2010-10-25T16:49:49 *** jklandis has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T16:50:14 * Zannick puts cotton in ears, waits for explosion 2010-10-25T16:50:29 i mean, uh, i'm sure it'll be fine 2010-10-25T16:51:55 * lavalamp_ wonders if that means go might get installed, too... 2010-10-25T16:53:20 C with embedded ASM, accept no substitutes 2010-10-25T16:53:54 we should accept asm as well, like .s and .S files with C programs 2010-10-25T16:54:11 gah, here we go... http://pastebin.ca/1973162 2010-10-25T16:54:40 oops 2010-10-25T16:54:45 badgerports says it should be there 2010-10-25T16:55:01 ok, I think I'll back this out now 2010-10-25T16:55:05 aptitude search mono? might be a different name 2010-10-25T16:55:12 need to enable universe? 2010-10-25T16:55:14 er, no 2010-10-25T16:55:23 not available but referred to by 2010-10-25T16:55:31 yeah, i've never seen that 2010-10-25T16:55:38 http://badgerports.org/hardy.html lists it as provided 2010-10-25T16:55:46 or the third party option? 2010-10-25T16:55:54 So are people here responsible for running the competition? 2010-10-25T16:55:55 is the machine on hardy? 2010-10-25T16:56:00 yep 2010-10-25T16:56:39 except for amstan and janzert, I wouldn't call them responsible... ;) 2010-10-25T16:56:57 haha, thanks for doing it. I've enjoyed it so far! 2010-10-25T16:57:01 ping? ping! 2010-10-25T16:57:22 i am as responsible as i am 2010-10-25T16:57:40 Zannick, oh are you an organizer too? 2010-10-25T16:57:47 *** Mathnerd314 has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T16:57:47 nope 2010-10-25T16:57:49 janzert: I'm running Ubuntu, and I have gmcs working. All I did was install mono-gmcs and let the package manager deal with the deps 2010-10-25T16:57:52 oh ok haha 2010-10-25T16:57:55 ok, c# situation should be back to what it was 2010-10-25T16:57:58 *** bhasker_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T16:57:58 i'm a contributor 2010-10-25T16:58:06 ah I see 2010-10-25T16:58:21 next season, maybe 2010-10-25T16:58:46 Now I'll take the opportunity to plug Groovy ;) lol. It looks like someone from the community has put together a starter pack for it. I'd /seriously/ appreciate it if you guys added support :D haha 2010-10-25T16:59:05 In particular, I don't see a package called "mono" on my system, even though I can compile C# 2010-10-25T16:59:23 note that it isn't strictly necessary to have a starter pack for a language to be supported 2010-10-25T16:59:31 eg, C 2010-10-25T16:59:33 jklandis: ok, I'll give it a try locally 2010-10-25T16:59:35 *** irchs has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T16:59:39 *** irchs is now known as janstaunton 2010-10-25T17:01:04 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-10-25T17:01:20 janzert: if you see a spambot, just delete their account and all their posts 2010-10-25T17:01:48 amstan: sure 2010-10-25T17:03:47 GODDAMNED STUPID BOT DO AS YOU'RE TOLD!!! 2010-10-25T17:05:27 boegel: it does exactly that, but if you don't tell it to do the right thing... 2010-10-25T17:05:39 boegel: pretty sure it does 2010-10-25T17:05:43 it might not hear what you think you said 2010-10-25T17:05:51 boegel: now.. if you gave the instructions wrong.. that's your fault.. 2010-10-25T17:06:22 I'd like mine to do what I mean, not what I say... 2010-10-25T17:06:35 spambot? 2010-10-25T17:06:46 lavalamp_: my minimax one shaped up a bit 2010-10-25T17:06:57 you should run your best minimax binary on TCP a bit, I want a rematch 2010-10-25T17:07:09 amstan: what is a spambot? 2010-10-25T17:07:13 lua, squirrel, io, pawn!!, pike, smalltalk, f#, errlang, cobra, fan, brain, angelscript, ...... 2010-10-25T17:07:28 JamesMG, how do you deal with the branching factor? If you don't mind me asking 2010-10-25T17:07:38 Error323: on the forums, random bots make accounts, then post spam 2010-10-25T17:07:39 JamesMG, cool, I can't start it now as I'm not at home but I will later. 2010-10-25T17:07:52 amstan: ahhh ok 2010-10-25T17:08:05 i thought in the tournament 2010-10-25T17:08:48 TravisD: very limited options as nodes 2010-10-25T17:08:56 *** Itkovian has quit IRC (Quit: Itkovian) 2010-10-25T17:09:09 i'd be impressed if someone wrote a bot that played in the tournament *and* posted in the forums 2010-10-25T17:09:13 A subset of the actual actions? Or some kind of generalized game? 2010-10-25T17:09:23 JamesMG: you need some juicy target detection: http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=697828 2010-10-25T17:09:45 a generated list of valid orders, then subsets of those as moves 2010-10-25T17:09:57 ah okay 2010-10-25T17:09:59 then it runs the minimax bit on that list of potential moves 2010-10-25T17:10:11 and the orders are generated to be useful and valid 2010-10-25T17:10:18 so no sending 1 ship to a 100 ship planet, etc 2010-10-25T17:10:36 and thats where u'll get in trouble :P 2010-10-25T17:10:45 yeah, still, you lose optimality guarantees :P 2010-10-25T17:10:45 *** jklandis has left #aichallenge 2010-10-25T17:10:58 exactly 2010-10-25T17:11:18 yeah, it's by far dumber than the bot I just told what to do and when 2010-10-25T17:11:26 hehe 2010-10-25T17:11:47 how many subsets do you get? 2010-10-25T17:11:51 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3814), felixcoto(3776), Hazard(3768), dmj111(3755), jambachili(3688), GreenTea(3671), luksian(3666), george(3634), davidjliu(3618), bix0r4ever(3603) 2010-10-25T17:12:07 You might consider looking at Monte-Carlo tree search. It's been very successful in the game of Go, which has a large branching factor and state space 2010-10-25T17:12:08 i'd imagine with it being exponential, that would end up bad... 2010-10-25T17:12:10 best I've pushed through is 9000 in the one second it's given 2010-10-25T17:12:24 with how many ply? just 1? 2010-10-25T17:12:31 yeah, that's one ply 2010-10-25T17:12:42 still 2010-10-25T17:12:43 JamesMG: so you do 9000 subsets per ply, how deep? 2010-10-25T17:12:43 I've filtered the orders down a bit since then 2010-10-25T17:13:25 *** delt0r has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T17:13:46 one ply, but what is evaluated is the end state of the orders given 2010-10-25T17:13:54 not the turn they are given on 2010-10-25T17:13:56 ph 2010-10-25T17:13:58 er, oh 2010-10-25T17:14:01 I do something similar, but my move generation is even more restricted, I think 2010-10-25T17:14:11 *** delt0r___ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2010-10-25T17:14:24 So is it really minimax then? If you're only doing 1 ply? 2010-10-25T17:14:37 I have the code in place to build out an entire tree 2010-10-25T17:14:43 currently mine does 10-20k nodes per second, two or three ply 2010-10-25T17:14:53 but it's far too slow to run at any meaningful depth 2010-10-25T17:14:59 so I'm working on that first 2010-10-25T17:14:59 and by ply in this case, it's a move from each player 2010-10-25T17:15:32 lavalamp_: sp are you looking two or three turns ahead? Or like, two or three significant actions ahead? 2010-10-25T17:15:46 but yeah, calling it minimax is probably reaching for a name for sure :) 2010-10-25T17:15:52 hehe 2010-10-25T17:15:53 antimatroid around? 2010-10-25T17:16:19 TravisD: turns, although I have some (so far unused) code to skip ahead if nothing significant is going to happen 2010-10-25T17:17:05 I suppose mine is more like running a mini tournament between different variations of my move generation code 2010-10-25T17:17:07 ah, all these complications turned me away from minimax. Your enemy might always send some huge fleet, which is significant :P 2010-10-25T17:17:45 mine at one point assumes the enemy will launch all his ships from every planet to whatever it wants to attack 2010-10-25T17:17:56 it being my bot, sorry 2010-10-25T17:18:11 ah, pessimism :) 2010-10-25T17:18:20 which results in deadlocks like the one lavalamp_ linked a few minutes ago, hehe 2010-10-25T17:18:30 hehehe 2010-10-25T17:19:32 I didn't realize the tcp client had a web viewer liek that :D 2010-10-25T17:20:21 JamesMG, one way to solve that is if you can't fortify (my name for preventing hypothetical attacks), don't even try 2010-10-25T17:20:52 that was the intent, but it's a method I copied from my first version original bot 2010-10-25T17:20:59 ah haha 2010-10-25T17:21:07 it could use a reworking to get more accurate/more data 2010-10-25T17:21:11 *** Mathnerd314 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-10-25T17:22:07 and for some reason it still decides to throw ships away on neutrals it obviously can't hold 2010-10-25T17:22:17 more tree trimming I think 2010-10-25T17:22:36 yeah mine had a big appetite for neutrals right next to the opponent for some reason... 2010-10-25T17:23:45 I think that's where my single ply "tree" is holding it back, it never represents consequences 2010-10-25T17:23:53 so it thinks it can get away with that kind of maneuver 2010-10-25T17:25:23 yeah, because of that I decided the move generators have to be a lot smarter 2010-10-25T17:25:26 my very naive bot: http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=6177541 :( 2010-10-25T17:25:48 (Red, not blue) 2010-10-25T17:26:41 Oh you're narcoleptic frog 2010-10-25T17:26:44 ? 2010-10-25T17:26:47 yep 2010-10-25T17:27:05 Couldn't use my real name, since "dick" is a dirty word, lol 2010-10-25T17:27:16 hahaha 2010-10-25T17:28:53 *** davidjliu has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T17:29:05 slightly irritating. lol 2010-10-25T17:29:26 haha, Yeah TravisD, your bot was beating mine yesterday a lot... 2010-10-25T17:29:40 oh was it? 2010-10-25T17:29:53 oh wait I won one: http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=680998 2010-10-25T17:30:10 Sorry :P I've been trying to get a feel for the competition. Today I'm starting a more serious attempt lol 2010-10-25T17:30:24 is this your minimax one? 2010-10-25T17:30:49 that is the move generator for my minimax bot 2010-10-25T17:31:01 which currently has major defects 2010-10-25T17:31:01 oh okay 2010-10-25T17:31:23 yeah, I got all excited because I solved some problem perfectly (how to move ships on a tree) 2010-10-25T17:31:31 But sadly that's kind of useless 2010-10-25T17:32:30 haha 2010-10-25T17:32:49 it's useful, but not until your attack and defense code works 2010-10-25T17:33:12 well, assuming that ships should travel between planets only along the edges of a tree is a really bad assumption in most cases 2010-10-25T17:33:51 well, maybe not, but I can't think of a way to find trees that don't cause serious timing problems 2010-10-25T17:33:54 oh, possibly-- I thought you were just meaning unused ship routing in general 2010-10-25T17:34:45 ah, yeah, that is definitely useful :) 2010-10-25T17:35:55 do you have a bot competing on the official server? 2010-10-25T17:36:22 still waiting for them to install go :( 2010-10-25T17:36:31 Go? 2010-10-25T17:37:35 golang.org 2010-10-25T17:38:04 #go-nuts 2010-10-25T17:38:11 ah, right. I've heard of it before 2010-10-25T17:38:30 I'd /really/ love it if they installed Groovy 2010-10-25T17:38:33 * TravisD winks and nods 2010-10-25T17:43:04 *** n9thbit has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T17:43:26 *** boegel has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2010-10-25T17:47:01 *** jaspervdj has quit IRC (Quit: NEVER GONNA GIVE YOU UP NEVER GONNA LET YOU DOWN) 2010-10-25T17:47:11 *** Azrathud has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T17:47:21 I get so happy when my "minimax" bot wins a game now 2010-10-25T17:48:37 I like this game despite my bot's errors 2010-10-25T17:48:39 http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=698488 2010-10-25T17:50:04 JamesMG, well done! im actually starting work on a minmax bot as well 2010-10-25T17:51:23 JamesMG yeah my wins are so rare they require fireworks 2010-10-25T17:52:00 n9thbit: keep me in the loop, I'm enjoying working on mine 2010-10-25T17:52:53 *** p4p4 has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [SeaMonkey 2.0a3/20090223135443]) 2010-10-25T17:53:06 JamesMG: yep, it will be my first time trying to implement minmax practically, so this will be a great opertunity to learn 2010-10-25T17:54:26 JamesMG: if you dont mind me asking, how far into the search tree do you go or do you time limit it or? 2010-10-25T17:55:03 right now it's one ply, as I work on trimming down the node count 2010-10-25T17:55:15 and time unlimited because the TCP server is pretty forgiving about that 2010-10-25T17:56:11 I have a long ways to go to get it to search deeper, since it nearly times out as is 2010-10-25T17:56:20 and it's exponential the further you go, so... 2010-10-25T17:56:46 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T18:00:03 JamesKG: yep, ive a few ideas about pruning and limitiing the moves, but no idea of how well itll work yet. eval func is going to be key, still thinking of ideas there 2010-10-25T18:00:52 yeah, tweaks to that have made the biggest difference in it's relative intelligence so far 2010-10-25T18:05:59 what do you consider other than production/ship count? 2010-10-25T18:06:52 prod*(200-turn)+NumShips right now 2010-10-25T18:07:16 lol that's mine exactly 2010-10-25T18:07:36 I figure that's basically common knowledge for most bots at this point :) 2010-10-25T18:07:46 although I now multiply on a bonus for well connected empires 2010-10-25T18:07:54 *** choas has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2010-10-25T18:08:05 I'm going to have to teach it the value of distance next I think 2010-10-25T18:08:33 god damn mega1 your bot rules 2010-10-25T18:08:44 watching it's games, a lot of it's idiocy is trying to take the wrong neutrals because it has no concept of distance 2010-10-25T18:09:45 that's silly, that should be up there too 2010-10-25T18:09:59 distance negatively affects the ships you gain 2010-10-25T18:10:24 you should use the turn you get the planet rather than the turn you launch :) 2010-10-25T18:10:35 yeah, it needs to 2010-10-25T18:10:46 hey guys 2010-10-25T18:10:50 hi 2010-10-25T18:10:53 it's not so much distance that's the problem as it is proximity to the other player 2010-10-25T18:10:58 Can anyone hear do Organisation changes? 2010-10-25T18:11:05 I wanna show my prowess to my uni colleagues :D 2010-10-25T18:11:13 but yeah, proximity to the bulk of the other player's ships is causing issues mostly 2010-10-25T18:11:34 because then it tries to save it's new pet planet by making all it's own ships airborne 2010-10-25T18:11:43 so now it can't react and you know how it goes 2010-10-25T18:11:51 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3796), felixcoto(3758), Hazard(3746), dmj111(3736), jambachili(3671), GreenTea(3653), luksian(3648), george(3616), davidjliu(3600), bix0r4ever(3586) 2010-10-25T18:14:42 *** nigg_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-10-25T18:15:32 almost done my mirroring bot :) 2010-10-25T18:19:36 *** JamesMG has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2010-10-25T18:19:50 Does the length of the game count against you in the ELO system? 2010-10-25T18:20:07 So if I take 200 turns to defeat a low ranked player, it reflects badly on me? 2010-10-25T18:21:22 nope 2010-10-25T18:21:27 oh 2010-10-25T18:21:36 elo knows only W/L/D 2010-10-25T18:22:16 I see 2010-10-25T18:22:39 *** lavalamp_ has quit IRC (Quit: later guys) 2010-10-25T18:24:58 *** RainCT has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-10-25T18:30:04 *** Titankiller has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2010-10-25T18:30:52 *** narnach has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T18:31:53 its the ruby coder =) 2010-10-25T18:42:27 rofl: http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=699342 Notice something strange? 2010-10-25T18:43:09 lol 2010-10-25T18:43:18 invalid order or sth? 2010-10-25T18:43:24 oh, no 2010-10-25T18:43:38 The bots do almost identical things for about 40 turns 2010-10-25T18:44:05 no, one is a turn behind 2010-10-25T18:44:10 ofc 2010-10-25T18:44:15 it's a copybot 2010-10-25T18:44:18 :) 2010-10-25T18:44:22 =] 2010-10-25T18:44:40 haha 2010-10-25T18:44:58 was kind of fun to make 2010-10-25T18:45:56 i can imagine :) 2010-10-25T18:46:30 * Zannick wrote a copybot way back at the beginning of september to test submitting 2010-10-25T18:47:58 So, at the very beginning I compute a map from Planets to Planets which stores the mirror of each 2010-10-25T18:48:09 satisfying linear algebra :) 2010-10-25T18:48:14 nice 2010-10-25T18:48:46 i used a slightly...more cheating hack to get that 2010-10-25T18:49:13 haha, how'd you do it? 2010-10-25T18:49:44 well, I went by the map generator 2010-10-25T18:49:58 0 is always the center, and the pairs after that are (1,2) , (3,4) , ... 2010-10-25T18:50:11 ah 2010-10-25T18:50:27 so it won't work for general maps, but it works for the ones we're using 2010-10-25T18:51:23 I use the difference between the starting planets as one basis vector and compute an orthogonal second vector. Then I rotate all vectors to be in this new space. After that, the mirroring becomes really easy.. but you have to check two possibilities 2010-10-25T18:51:49 but it should work on any map that is symmetric :) 2010-10-25T18:52:44 *** hornairs has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T18:57:52 *** janstaunton has quit IRC (Quit: janstaunton) 2010-10-25T19:03:45 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T19:06:34 *** bhasker_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-10-25T19:07:21 *** Mathnerd314 has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T19:09:08 *** Azrathud has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-10-25T19:10:46 *** bhasker_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T19:11:51 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3782), felixcoto(3742), Hazard(3728), dmj111(3722), asavis(3707), jambachili(3656), luksian(3654), GreenTea(3639), george(3600), davidjliu(3586) 2010-10-25T19:13:54 *** Commandir has left #aichallenge 2010-10-25T19:13:56 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2010-10-25T19:21:46 Anyone here able to install new languages? 2010-10-25T19:23:20 TravisD: is there an entry in the issues list? 2010-10-25T19:23:45 There is, but it's a month old with no administrative attention (I think) 2010-10-25T19:27:27 *** JensTi has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2010-10-25T19:27:54 The language is Groovy. I can't find the issue because my internet is being stubborn 2010-10-25T19:28:42 ah, here: http://code.google.com/p/ai-contest/issues/detail?id=167&q=Groovy 2010-10-25T19:36:25 amstan: is it likely that Groovy will be allowed? I am in no rush for it to be installed on the server, but it would be nice to know that it will be eventually :) 2010-10-25T19:36:47 there's no reason for it not to 2010-10-25T19:36:58 it's just actually getting it implemented and installed 2010-10-25T19:37:13 Yeah, I understand that you guys probably have more important things to deal with 2010-10-25T19:37:35 seems like it should be pretty quick though. Some small changes to the compile script and installing groovy 2010-10-25T19:37:55 we also have to get golang and c# 2010-10-25T19:38:00 and there's a few others 2010-10-25T19:38:14 they add up 2010-10-25T19:38:43 yeah, I have no doubt 2010-10-25T19:38:48 sorry for pestering, haha :P 2010-10-25T19:40:28 *** Upgoat has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T19:40:53 *** Appleman1234 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-10-25T19:41:07 *** Upgoat has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2010-10-25T19:41:44 yay! I think I got C# updated 2010-10-25T19:47:39 looks like it's working too http://ai-contest.com/profile.php?user_id=6079 2010-10-25T19:47:53 yay 2010-10-25T19:48:23 janzert: cool 2010-10-25T19:48:38 janzert: next: golang and groovy 2010-10-25T19:48:46 by popular demand 2010-10-25T19:48:56 only worriesome part is errors per minute are a little high on the servers at the moment 2010-10-25T19:49:01 hopefully just fluke 2010-10-25T19:49:25 amstan: You made my day :) 2010-10-25T19:49:37 yeah, looks like they're going back down 2010-10-25T19:52:52 *** lavalamp_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T19:53:20 hi, could anyone here tell me if there are memory limitations enforced on a bot? I posted this (http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=994&start=0) and Mistmanov replied posting a link suggesting there is no limit. Could any admins tell me if this is true? Thanks 2010-10-25T19:54:22 there is currently no enforced limit, but that may change 2010-10-25T19:57:27 janzert: thanks 2010-10-25T20:05:26 I finally tied ObligatoryShampoo, really boring game though. http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=700640 2010-10-25T20:06:15 Are both bots just doing nothing? 2010-10-25T20:06:31 First bot to move loses, so they don't move 2010-10-25T20:06:54 its not obvious to me why the first bot to move loses 2010-10-25T20:07:54 On that map the planets are too close together 2010-10-25T20:07:59 basically you can't take a planet without making your home planet vulnerable and also losing so many ships that you don't have time to make them back before the opponent can also capture the new planet 2010-10-25T20:08:32 Ah, right 2010-10-25T20:09:24 *** n9thbit has left #aichallenge 2010-10-25T20:10:13 There is no strategy to win, though? 2010-10-25T20:10:25 Ah, no, I guess if you send any ships he kills your home planet 2010-10-25T20:10:39 and in the mean-time generates more planets than you'll get from the new one 2010-10-25T20:10:48 not on that map, draw is the best 2010-10-25T20:11:05 well, unless your opponent isn't clever enough :) 2010-10-25T20:11:51 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3787), felixcoto(3746), Hazard(3733), dmj111(3728), asavis(3709), luksian(3660), jambachili(3659), GreenTea(3644), george(3606), davidjliu(3592) 2010-10-25T20:26:17 Exciting one, looks like I went wrong on 8th move, http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=700927 2010-10-25T20:27:00 *** jklandis has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T20:28:22 *** Appleman1234 has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T20:28:48 The game engine supports fleets in the initial game state, but it doesn't start adding frames to the playback string until the end of the first turn 2010-10-25T20:29:11 amstan: I'm very excited for Groovy. Thanks again 2010-10-25T20:30:19 eburnette: I love the monster-desperation-attack that red does :) 2010-10-25T20:30:51 Yeah it's like there's a steady state and then boom! 2010-10-25T20:31:30 Is your bot on the official server? 2010-10-25T20:32:09 Some version of it, it takes so long to climb back up in rankings I don't bother very often, how about you? 2010-10-25T20:33:40 yes, but its also old and very bad :( 2010-10-25T20:33:49 http://ai-contest.com/profile.php?user_id=11569 2010-10-25T20:35:07 Cute bot name 2010-10-25T20:35:23 is this package a new enough version of groovy to make people happy or will it just cause problems? 2010-10-25T20:35:26 http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/groovy 2010-10-25T20:36:17 janzert: I have 1.7 installed but I don't know how significant the differences are 2010-10-25T20:36:45 there's a debian installer on the website though, if you were willing to use it 2010-10-25T20:36:45 problem is the deb from groovy official site depends on sun-java and we are using openjdk :( 2010-10-25T20:36:56 ahh shit 2010-10-25T20:37:21 that's irritating 2010-10-25T20:37:33 eburnette: thanks 2010-10-25T20:38:10 lol bocsimacko timed out against my bot 2010-10-25T20:38:24 I'm not exactly sure where I went wrong on this one: http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=701020 2010-10-25T20:38:27 only way I'm likely to get a win... 2010-10-25T20:38:58 eburnette, which color are you? 2010-10-25T20:39:16 blue 2010-10-25T20:40:12 eburnette: is your bot mostly heuristics and black magic? Or is there nice justification behind what it does? 2010-10-25T20:40:14 at move 30 I had more ships and more growth 2010-10-25T20:40:41 wow, I was winning for a long time here: http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=701139 2010-10-25T20:41:13 Infernape is heuristic, I tried a minimax one but it wasn't as good 2010-10-25T20:42:04 Impressive lavalamp_, usually he beats me in 50 or so 2010-10-25T20:42:47 eburnette, at turn 34 he started outproducing you 2010-10-25T20:43:45 Yeah but I was way ahead on ships, it seems like there ought to be a way to capitalize on that 2010-10-25T20:44:03 *** narnach has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-10-25T20:44:51 yeah, take another neutral :) 2010-10-25T20:46:43 Does this happen to you - you tweak it to win a game you lost but it makes it worse overall? 2010-10-25T20:47:35 my bot's not good enough for that yet ^^ 2010-10-25T20:48:03 *** Olathe has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-10-25T20:48:42 I'll spend a night "improving it" and then have to throw it away, frustrating. 2010-10-25T20:49:28 *** narnach has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T20:54:10 Red rain: http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=701246 (mine was blue) 2010-10-25T20:55:47 *** Jahnson has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T20:57:35 *** Jahnson has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2010-10-25T20:58:51 argh, looks like the latest mono from badgerports still leaks semaphores. 2010-10-25T20:59:36 yeah there's a few bots that scatter ships around like that 2010-10-25T21:00:10 *** jklandis has left #aichallenge 2010-10-25T21:00:16 lavalamp_, got behind you 2010-10-25T21:01:22 attacked from the rear :) 2010-10-25T21:02:19 eburnette, yeah you got me there 2010-10-25T21:03:26 I assume nothing will make it past my front lines and survive 2010-10-25T21:03:46 icbm 2010-10-25T21:04:25 *** Appleman1234 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2010-10-25T21:04:59 lol 2010-10-25T21:05:36 *** bhasker_ has quit IRC (Quit: bhasker_) 2010-10-25T21:07:59 *** virdo has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T21:09:13 *** davidjliu has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-10-25T21:09:34 *** Olathe has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T21:11:52 Top 10 players: asavis(3887), bocsimacko(3796), dmj111(3758), felixcoto(3739), Hazard(3726), jambachili(3661), GreenTea(3655), luksian(3653), george(3615), davidjliu(3596) 2010-10-25T21:17:52 *** phreeza has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) 2010-10-25T21:17:53 *** phreeza_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T21:25:48 *** Naktibalda has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-10-25T21:32:03 Getting tired of seeing this: "INFO You LOSE against bocsimacko-b0.31" 2010-10-25T21:36:17 lol 2010-10-25T21:36:22 is bocsimacko the best bot online too? 2010-10-25T21:36:44 by far 2010-10-25T21:37:41 I mean the one from the online competition? 2010-10-25T21:37:55 he kills everyone 2010-10-25T21:38:04 lol, awesome 2010-10-25T21:38:07 i'm playing in tcp 2010-10-25T21:38:23 he rules tcp 2010-10-25T21:38:24 eburnette: I know, I mean, bocsimacko is also a bot on the official server? 2010-10-25T21:38:33 official server he's not quite as dominant 2010-10-25T21:38:37 ah 2010-10-25T21:39:09 #2 there right now http://ai-contest.com/rankings.php 2010-10-25T21:39:14 I think because of slower servers and he had some trouble getting it to compile right for them, etc 2010-10-25T21:39:38 but #1 has only played 2 games 2010-10-25T21:40:01 and bocsimacko's sub is 5 days old 2010-10-25T21:43:23 the L2 matrix norm is the largest eigenvalue, right? 2010-10-25T21:43:44 *** hornairs has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2010-10-25T21:46:11 *** Titankiller has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T21:50:10 fixed my defense/fortification code and my move generator is almost 500 Elo better... 2010-10-25T21:53:35 lavalamp_: congrats :) 2010-10-25T21:53:49 I finally had a win officially: http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=6195190 2010-10-25T21:56:39 TravisD, nice 2010-10-25T21:56:57 Congrats 2010-10-25T21:57:09 thanks :) I was just on a losing streak :( 2010-10-25T21:59:15 I think you're keeping too many ships at the edges though 2010-10-25T21:59:42 yeah, the bot is actually /really/ naive. There isn't a line of code from it in my current version 2010-10-25T21:59:47 it looks pretty though :) 2010-10-25T22:04:03 latest xkcd is epic, relevant to AIs 2010-10-25T22:04:06 http://xkcd.com/ 2010-10-25T22:08:23 amstan: Lol, yeah, I read it and smiled. 2010-10-25T22:11:53 Top 10 players: asavis(3880), bocsimacko(3786), dmj111(3747), felixcoto(3735), Hazard(3703), jambachili(3647), GreenTea(3646), luksian(3644), george(3606), sin_sun(3587) 2010-10-25T22:15:43 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T22:17:24 evening folks 2010-10-25T22:17:34 Good evening, bhasker 2010-10-25T22:17:51 how goes it 2010-10-25T22:18:00 Good. How are you? 2010-10-25T22:18:10 *** shades has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-10-25T22:20:48 *** shades has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T22:23:47 *** Epona666 has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T22:29:09 *** hornairs has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T22:38:16 http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=702574 2010-10-25T22:38:25 i wonder if i would have won that 2010-10-25T22:42:21 kind of looks lik eit 2010-10-25T22:42:29 yea :-\ 2010-10-25T22:42:30 oh well 2010-10-25T22:42:42 and i wish i could figure out why my bot keeps losing to this ObligatoryShampoo bot 2010-10-25T22:42:47 which is 100 elo points below mine:-\ 2010-10-25T22:42:53 lol 2010-10-25T22:43:06 Elo ratings aren't a good model for these bots sadly 2010-10-25T22:44:06 why would you say so? 2010-10-25T22:45:11 They assume that the strength of competitors can be ordered in some sense. So, if A is better than B and B is better than C, then A should be better than C too... but in most cases where elo ratings are used this assumption isn't true 2010-10-25T22:45:56 so, your bot may be an example. Oblig. has a strategy which is stronger against your bot than against others, so we can get these "A beats B, B beats C, C beats A" loops 2010-10-25T22:48:34 *** seisatsu has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T22:48:39 maybe my bot is just dragging Oblig. down, I beat it a few times and I'm 300 below it... 2010-10-25T22:48:46 lol 2010-10-25T22:49:20 That's another thing actually.. the strength of the competitors is changing as they use newer bots. That ruins most of your statistical significance 2010-10-25T22:49:41 If I beat lava's first bot which was maybe not so good, then he submits a great one, my victory looks /really/ good 2010-10-25T22:50:13 that's why I change my name except for minor bug fixes 2010-10-25T22:50:21 yeah 2010-10-25T22:56:53 major coup for my old bot: http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=702791 2010-10-25T22:57:55 i change my name when i make major changes 2010-10-25T23:00:11 holy cow, again: http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=702870 ... Accoun, what happened to your bot? 2010-10-25T23:00:30 accouns bot doesn't do well in close starting positions 2010-10-25T23:00:42 ahh 2010-10-25T23:00:56 well it's screwing up my rating, lol 2010-10-25T23:02:49 I started the old one up to compare it with my new one... >.< 2010-10-25T23:03:03 lol 2010-10-25T23:05:56 this morning I was around -550, now I'm at +50 or so, that's encouraging 2010-10-25T23:11:53 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3762), asavis(3726), dmj111(3716), felixcoto(3707), Hazard(3681), GreenTea(3655), jambachili(3625), luksian(3621), sin_sun(3578), rsergio(3577) 2010-10-25T23:13:37 thats quite good 2010-10-25T23:18:25 *** vizier has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T23:23:40 *** Appleman1234 has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T23:26:05 *** Appleman1234 has quit IRC (Excess Flood) 2010-10-25T23:26:31 lavalamp 2010-10-25T23:26:35 looks like we had a match 2010-10-25T23:26:36 http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=703163 2010-10-25T23:26:50 amstan: Wikipedia claims you won a rock-paper-scissors contest sometime. any links to documentation of that? 2010-10-25T23:26:56 *** Appleman1234 has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T23:28:16 Mathnerd314: jeff has an archive of the old contest site, somewhere under http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~j3camero/ 2010-10-25T23:28:20 wait! 2010-10-25T23:28:45 * Mathnerd314 waits 2010-10-25T23:29:29 there was an announcement here, with my name on it: http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/events/old-Fall_2009 2010-10-25T23:29:33 for some reason that's gone 2010-10-25T23:29:46 amstan, did you have some strategy? 2010-10-25T23:30:06 hold on, i'm annoyed at this now 2010-10-25T23:30:11 rofl 2010-10-25T23:30:24 *** TravisD has left #aichallenge 2010-10-25T23:31:02 bhasker, ah, malazan is you? 2010-10-25T23:31:18 *** TravisD has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T23:31:23 Mathnerd314: there we go, it wasn't under events, but news: http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/news/old-Fall_2009 2010-10-25T23:31:28 yup 2010-10-25T23:31:40 TravisD: are you familiar with RPS bots? 2010-10-25T23:32:00 I've heard a few people talk about them, but I've never made one or thought very hard about it 2010-10-25T23:32:27 how annoying, I beat accoun and immediately lost to ragebot >,< 2010-10-25T23:32:34 there was this rps contest a few years ago: http://webdocs.cs.ualberta.ca/~darse/rsbpc.html 2010-10-25T23:32:49 rofl, I'm at the UofA 2010-10-25T23:32:58 and since this competition is ok with reusing other's code, you can plagarize all you want 2010-10-25T23:33:18 so that's what happened in with the AI challenge in 09 2010-10-25T23:33:26 everyone in top was using greenberg 2010-10-25T23:33:35 let's see.. 2010-10-25T23:33:43 i entered the contest like 2 days before the deadline 2010-10-25T23:33:51 implemented some crappy bot 2010-10-25T23:34:01 bhasker, I think we had another one which I won but it was a while ago, off the screen now 2010-10-25T23:34:14 then i heard jeff commenting why doesn't everyone use greenberg, since it's readily available 2010-10-25T23:34:16 ah k 2010-10-25T23:34:24 what exactly is greenberg? 2010-10-25T23:34:24 so i ported greenberg to my bot 2010-10-25T23:34:35 bhasker: this uber bot that won http://webdocs.cs.ualberta.ca/~darse/rsbpc.html 2010-10-25T23:34:54 oh k 2010-10-25T23:35:01 anyway... so.. having greenberg got me in top 10 2010-10-25T23:35:09 that was cool, but not cool enough 2010-10-25T23:35:35 i realized that i was mostly loosing to other greenberg clone bots 2010-10-25T23:35:36 amstan, you're at Waterloo? 2010-10-25T23:35:39 yes 2010-10-25T23:35:54 so i proceeded to run 2 instances of that bot, one as myself, one simulating the enemy 2010-10-25T23:35:59 Sounds like your student community is cooler than ours. lol 2010-10-25T23:36:11 if i detected that the enemy was using greenberg, i went in anti-greenberg mode 2010-10-25T23:36:21 lol 2010-10-25T23:37:10 did you try to figure out if the enemy was ever using anti-greenberg mode? 2010-10-25T23:37:15 *** Titankiller has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-10-25T23:37:30 lavalamp_: yeah, i was trying to code that 2010-10-25T23:37:33 and then enable anti-anti-greenberg mode?! 2010-10-25T23:37:34 lol 2010-10-25T23:37:40 but i realized that greenberg itself was not stateless 2010-10-25T23:37:52 so i could have an anti-*n greenberg mode 2010-10-25T23:37:59 i would have to have n functions then 2010-10-25T23:38:16 this sounds like iocaine powder all over :p 2010-10-25T23:38:21 i actually had to rename all the functions and globals for greenberg 2010-10-25T23:38:25 Mathnerd314: what? 2010-10-25T23:38:33 lol 2010-10-25T23:38:45 it just sounds like the strategy iocain powder used 2010-10-25T23:39:04 so yeah, that's how a noob like me won 2010-10-25T23:39:05 grr, the new mono seems to leak semaphores worse than the old one did 2010-10-25T23:39:05 amstan: http://dan.egnor.name/iocaine.html 2010-10-25T23:40:14 sounds familiar: Iocaine Powder's meta-strategy expands any predictive algorithm P into six possible strategies: 2010-10-25T23:40:36 yeah.. i forgot, i didn't actually need n version, since the pattern will always repeat after 6 antis 2010-10-25T23:41:49 anyways... I think RPS is a foolish game. even if everybody submits random bots, you can still get a winner 2010-10-25T23:41:55 *** hellman has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T23:42:12 hellman: did you get what you needed as far as maps go? 2010-10-25T23:42:40 Mathnerd314: but if there's these 2 people, one which submits a paperbot, and one which submits a scissors bot, you'll get scissors to be the winner, random bots all over, then paper at the bottom 2010-10-25T23:43:11 Mathnerd314: and this was the case, since the starter package was a rockbot 2010-10-25T23:43:38 oh yeah, i had a friend who would try to predict your random numbers in the rockbot 2010-10-25T23:43:50 since most people were using srand time 2010-10-25T23:44:07 cryptographic random numbers! 2010-10-25T23:44:10 so i included in my bot a 10mb file with random numbers 2010-10-25T23:44:29 that works too 2010-10-25T23:44:33 contestbot: tell JamesMG our bots finally played, but it's not fair because I fixed a bunch of my bugs: http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=703390 2010-10-25T23:44:33 lavalamp_: Error: I haven't seen JamesMG, I'll let you do the telling. 2010-10-25T23:44:56 hmph 2010-10-25T23:45:12 contestbot, you have a short memory 2010-10-25T23:45:13 lavalamp_: An error occured while trying to show the previous error. 2010-10-25T23:45:14 these are the two minimax bots? lol 2010-10-25T23:45:24 yeah, hehe 2010-10-25T23:46:40 amstan: a username-irc nick mapping in the bot would be good. (just another factoid database) 2010-10-25T23:46:44 amstan: is Groovy installed? :D:D 2010-10-25T23:46:57 TravisD: idk, ask janzert 2010-10-25T23:47:01 but don't bug him 2010-10-25T23:47:04 oh 2010-10-25T23:47:09 would asking be bugging? :P 2010-10-25T23:47:16 TravisD: yeah, try tomorrow 2010-10-25T23:47:25 yeah oka 2010-10-25T23:47:25 y 2010-10-25T23:47:39 Mathnerd314: hmm, decent 2010-10-25T23:47:49 Mathnerd314: do you know python? 2010-10-25T23:48:45 no0ish (I know several languages similar to it). but the functionality already should be somewhere in the code 2010-10-25T23:49:24 the functionality's easy 2010-10-25T23:49:41 ok, night guys 2010-10-25T23:49:43 but i'm having problems with the snarfers(the pattern matchers that trigger events in the bot) 2010-10-25T23:49:52 *** lavalamp_ is now known as lavalamp_afk 2010-10-25T23:50:00 like... i want "who is dmj on the main site" to make the bot answer 2010-10-25T23:50:11 Mathnerd314: ^ 2010-10-25T23:50:27 where in the world is dmj 2010-10-25T23:50:53 *** phreeza_ has quit IRC (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep) 2010-10-25T23:50:59 amstan: why? just do something like @usernam dmj 2010-10-25T23:51:10 but that's not nearly as cool 2010-10-25T23:51:17 that command will be there, but.. 2010-10-25T23:52:01 amstan: ok, start another contest for NLP in irc bots. 2010-10-25T23:52:14 Mathnerd314: NLP? 2010-10-25T23:52:23 natural language processing 2010-10-25T23:52:32 deal 2010-10-25T23:52:39 the winner gets 1 op 2010-10-25T23:52:45 *** davidjliu has joined #aichallenge 2010-10-25T23:54:57 that seems like a small prize 2010-10-25T23:56:37 and I don't see how to judge between entries 2010-10-25T23:57:15 wait, you're serious 2010-10-25T23:57:21 rofl 2010-10-25T23:58:21 amstan: no, this is just how I roll. comes from doing too many proofs by contradiction :p