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2010-11-06T00:01:47  <eburnette_> @hello
2010-11-06T00:01:48  <contestbot> eburnette_: I have no idea what you mean.
2010-11-06T00:02:37  <sigh> @hi
2010-11-06T00:02:37  <contestbot> hi sigh
2010-11-06T00:04:31  <eburnette_> Error323 what does your new version do differently?
2010-11-06T00:06:37  <eburnette_> Anybody else notice the visualizers don't look very good on the iPad?
2010-11-06T00:08:08  <Frontier> Well, what browser does the iPad use? The HTML visualiser depends on the browser.
2010-11-06T00:08:58  <Frontier> Safari might have a general drawing issue, like Opera.
2010-11-06T00:09:39  <sigh> Safari on my mac works fine
2010-11-06T00:09:44  <eburnette_> Webkit, like Safari
2010-11-06T00:10:49  <eburnette_> Also looks bad on Android 2.2 browser which is also based on Webkit
2010-11-06T00:10:55  <Frontier> Safari looks ok, but plain webkit doesn't?
2010-11-06T00:11:19  <eburnette_> I haven't tried iPhone or iPod touch browser
2010-11-06T00:11:48  <Frontier> sigh: My code that iterates "all" possible combinations just got faster. Yesterday I had some very good results with thinking for 3 minutes in the first turn. Now I have even better result in a second!
2010-11-06T00:12:21  <sigh> Frontier: cool :)
2010-11-06T00:12:29  <eburnette_> Yeah the numbers are flying over on the left, away from ship arrows
2010-11-06T00:12:41  <sigh> I still have trouble understanding your use of the word "all" even if it is in quotes :P
2010-11-06T00:13:15  <eburnette_> 23! == all?
2010-11-06T00:14:08  <demerzel_> ipad?  ansi-c x86 or gtfo
2010-11-06T00:14:25  <Frontier> exactly. i assume the enemy does nothing and take only planets that are closer to me than the enemy.
2010-11-06T00:15:01  <demerzel_> i am about to implement my first matrix calc
2010-11-06T00:15:09  <Frontier> some heuristics here, some correct exclusions there and in a second you have a result very close to the optimum
2010-11-06T00:15:19  <demerzel_> put the state through a massive battery of tests and its as bulletproof as i can think to test it for
2010-11-06T00:15:19  <contestbot> Top 10 players: bocsimacko(4256), shangas(4130), dmj111(4078), george(4073), Xrillo(4041), Raschi(4010), felixcoto(4007), Accoun(4001), Slin-.-(3955), hutabhu(3949)
2010-11-06T00:15:50  <eburnette_> shangas is improving
2010-11-06T00:16:48  <Frontier> like: Give me a map name and I tell you how you can max out ships or production to turn 20. I think no bot can beat that now ^^.
2010-11-06T00:16:48  <demerzel_> actually speaking of the ipad i love that apple has pushed plain old c back into mainstream dev
2010-11-06T00:17:03  <eburnette_> Only 3-4 of top 10 were there a week ago, interesting
2010-11-06T00:17:07  <demerzel_> would get something to support that but beyond c i know nothing about macs
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2010-11-06T00:17:31  <eburnette_> map1172
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2010-11-06T00:18:12  <demerzel_> how iterative was your search
2010-11-06T00:18:27  <demerzel_> you can go to a lot deeper depths than 21! or even 11!
2010-11-06T00:19:39  <Frontier> eburnette_: give me a link to it ^^
2010-11-06T00:19:41  <eburnette_> Dang iterators are slow in Java, having timeout issues
2010-11-06T00:20:22  <eburnette_> Frontier, link to what?
2010-11-06T00:20:41  <eburnette_> Oh the map, I made it up :)
2010-11-06T00:20:52  <demerzel_> i have all the maps in  a db
2010-11-06T00:21:04  <Frontier> demerzel_: I searched 16651 states
2010-11-06T00:21:10  <demerzel_> per map?
2010-11-06T00:21:38  <eburnette_> tourney maps will be new though, won't they?
2010-11-06T00:21:39  <Frontier> that was the number for map4
2010-11-06T00:21:55  <demerzel_> eburnette_: i am kinda banking on that
2010-11-06T00:22:11  <demerzel_> eburnette_: but i'm a little worried tbh i am sure some people will have opening move sets
2010-11-06T00:22:15  <demerzel_> but i hope they do what is right
2010-11-06T00:22:39  <demerzel_> Frontier:  that number seems really low
2010-11-06T00:23:03  <Frontier> the best production I can get is using this path: (ships 287, growth 40) after 20 rounds:  0( 9) 8( 6)12( 7)13( 5)18(11)21( 4)20(14) 3(19)10(17) 6(15)15(16)
2010-11-06T00:23:19  <demerzel_> what's the number in front mean
2010-11-06T00:23:22  <demerzel_> planet 0?
2010-11-06T00:23:23  <Frontier> the numbers in () are the turn at which the planet is captures
2010-11-06T00:23:33  <eburnette_> I think I could spend an hour searching and not get too much deeper than I do with a second
2010-11-06T00:23:34  <Frontier> correct it is the planet id
2010-11-06T00:23:52  <demerzel_> hmm do you know of a game with that map
2010-11-06T00:24:02  <Frontier> demerzel_: That number seems low? :/
2010-11-06T00:24:08  <demerzel_> 16651?  yea
2010-11-06T00:24:10  <demerzel_> what lang you using
2010-11-06T00:24:14  <Frontier> c++
2010-11-06T00:24:16  <eburnette_> Yeah but why 20?
2010-11-06T00:24:57  <Frontier> 20 is just a number i made up, if i use 200 it will become really vague and who knows what the enemy will do in turns 20 to 200.
2010-11-06T00:25:01  <demerzel_> well there's a lot of factors
2010-11-06T00:25:34  <demerzel_> if i was just looking to maximize ships hmm i don't think i'd use a payoff
2010-11-06T00:25:35  <Frontier> the best ship count i can get to turn 20 is 431.
2010-11-06T00:25:47  <demerzel_> pastebin the map :0
2010-11-06T00:25:59  <eburnette_> I tried all from 1 to 50, picked the best, and mega1 just sent 100 to the center and clobbered me
2010-11-06T00:26:00  <Frontier> it is map4.txt
2010-11-06T00:26:00  <demerzel_> why wouldn't you go for max ship count
2010-11-06T00:26:31  <demerzel_> fix this: http://www.ai-contest.com/maps/map4.txt
2010-11-06T00:26:36  <demerzel_> can't remember where the maps are
2010-11-06T00:26:47  <demerzel_> i could get it out of my db but then i'd have to piece it together lol
2010-11-06T00:27:07  <Frontier> i am not familiar with pastebin
2010-11-06T00:27:09  <demerzel_> oh nm i still do have the starter package on my desktop
2010-11-06T00:27:13  <demerzel_> don't worry about it :)
2010-11-06T00:27:34  <Frontier> eburnette_: What do you mean by 1..50?
2010-11-06T00:27:35  <demerzel_> Frontier: why wouldn't you go for the max ships
2010-11-06T00:27:48  <eburnette_> Horizons
2010-11-06T00:28:16  <Frontier> because maybe the enemy is still far away, and i can spend more time capturing planets wich will be faster with a higher groth rate
2010-11-06T00:28:33  <demerzel_> yea but if you have 200 more ships you can just start taking the enemy planets?
2010-11-06T00:29:35  <demerzel_> i mean that's a pretty big diff
2010-11-06T00:29:38  <eburnette_> For maps try http://72.44.46.68/getmaps
2010-11-06T00:30:17  <eburnette_> Far away isn't all that far usually
2010-11-06T00:31:04  <Frontier> demerzel_: yeah at some point i have to take the enemy into consideration.  On map 4 i can have 144 ships difference on turn 20 that's right. Actually I should find out when I meet the enemy and try to maximise for ships to that point.
2010-11-06T00:31:22  <eburnette_> 17 or so avg? And you really only have half that before enemy gets to your side
2010-11-06T00:31:28  <demerzel_> yea you're planning on holding 0 on this map with 287 ships? http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=875024
2010-11-06T00:31:35  <demerzel_> no way
2010-11-06T00:31:54  <demerzel_> they're over 300 and that's with a -40 to both
2010-11-06T00:32:32  <Frontier> the game doesn't load
2010-11-06T00:32:38  <eburnette_> Too far away from support
2010-11-06T00:32:47  <demerzel_> hmm that's odd
2010-11-06T00:32:58  <demerzel_> crap man why does this stop autopaging
2010-11-06T00:33:02  <demerzel_> pissing me off
2010-11-06T00:34:28  <demerzel_> actually i'm glad you said something because i forgot i was going to calc out neutral acq differently
2010-11-06T00:34:44  <Frontier> i don't plan on holding anything that's the problem now. There is no active enemy right now in my code. I still like the way I can find some good starting moves now.
2010-11-06T00:34:58  <demerzel_> no that's cool
2010-11-06T00:35:04  <demerzel_> i would def not shoot for max growth though
2010-11-06T00:35:22  <demerzel_> that's like making moves based on turn 200 scores
2010-11-06T00:35:25  <demerzel_> might pan out but probably not
2010-11-06T00:37:02  <eburnette_> http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=875582
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2010-11-06T00:37:11  <Frontier> but max ships can leave me behind on growth which is important when you get into a stale mate
2010-11-06T00:38:02  <eburnette_> Max both? Or play positionally.
2010-11-06T00:38:16  <demerzel_> my god that version number is nuts
2010-11-06T00:38:29  <demerzel_> CCCF-ex13-cai13-asbp10-t3
2010-11-06T00:38:52  <eburnette_> @google asbp
2010-11-06T00:38:53  <contestbot> eburnette_: American Society of Bariatric Physicians (ASBP): <http://www.asbp.org/>; Armed Services Blood Program (ASBP): The Official Blood Program of ...: <http://www.militaryblood.dod.mil/>; Arkansas State Board of Pharmacy: <http://www.arkansas.gov/asbp/>; Armed Services Blood Program (ASBP) | Facebook: <http://www.facebook.com/militaryblood>; ASBP Fact Sheet | A Soldier's Perspective: (2 more messages)
2010-11-06T00:39:27  <eburnette_> Thought it was some game theory acronym
2010-11-06T00:40:07  <demerzel_> http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=875734
2010-11-06T00:41:02  <demerzel_> pretty sure that is the old #1 spanish guy
2010-11-06T00:41:13  <demerzel_> even if it is an acronym probably not an english one
2010-11-06T00:41:43  <Frontier> http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=875582 is actually a good example! One bot tries to max out growth, while the other maxes out ships.
2010-11-06T00:41:55  <eburnette_> P0wnd:  http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=875640
2010-11-06T00:42:26  <demerzel_> Frontier: you misread that game
2010-11-06T00:42:35  <Frontier> :(
2010-11-06T00:42:46  <demerzel_> they were both going for max ships but the reason he won is because boc left that one planet unsupported
2010-11-06T00:43:57  <Frontier> hightime, almost played my solution for max growth to turn 10, that is why he lost. he didn't have the ships to defend
2010-11-06T00:43:59  <demerzel_> well you could also read it as boc tried to expand all 3 directions at once and had to concentrate on one and lost the other 2
2010-11-06T00:44:46  <eburnette_> Blue has more growth and more ships up to move 30
2010-11-06T00:44:46  <demerzel_> hightime?  what aer you looking at lol
2010-11-06T00:44:51  <demerzel_> you pasted the game eburnette did
2010-11-06T00:45:31  <eburnette_> http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=875582
2010-11-06T00:45:54  <demerzel_> yea boc vs CCCF 875582 - frontier said something about hightime
2010-11-06T00:46:26  <Frontier> I am referring to game_id=875582
2010-11-06T00:47:03  <eburnette_> Hitime one is http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=875024
2010-11-06T00:48:31  <Frontier> I just paste my solutions to turn 10 here quickly:
2010-11-06T00:48:34  <Frontier> (147 +26) after 10 rounds:  0( 9) 8( 6)12( 7)13( 5)15( 3)21( 4)
2010-11-06T00:48:34  <Frontier> (164 +25) after 10 rounds:  0( 9) 8( 6)12( 7)13( 5)21( 4)
2010-11-06T00:48:34  <Frontier> (172 +24) after 10 rounds:  0( 9) 8( 6)13( 5)21( 4)
2010-11-06T00:48:34  <Frontier> (174 +21) after 10 rounds:  8( 6)12( 7)13( 5)21( 4)
2010-11-06T00:48:34  <Frontier> (182 +20) after 10 rounds:  8( 6)13( 5)21( 4)
2010-11-06T00:49:17  <eburnette_> How do you read that
2010-11-06T00:49:52  <Frontier> (ships +growth) ...: planet_id(captured after n turns from start) ...
2010-11-06T00:50:59  <eburnette_> Hmm, the winner used none of those
2010-11-06T00:51:12  <Frontier> look at turn 1+10 = 11
2010-11-06T00:51:45  <Frontier> in other words, my turns start at 0 :o)
2010-11-06T00:52:59  <eburnette_> On the 582 game turn 11 shows 133 +9
2010-11-06T00:53:55  <Frontier> map 195... wait gotta download that from somewhere
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2010-11-06T00:57:02  <Frontier> ok turn 16 is the target here as the bots have plenty of time till they meet.
2010-11-06T00:57:29  <Frontier> http://pastebin.com/mZLN8KC3
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2010-11-06T00:58:47  <Frontier> boc did run one of the optimal solutions, while the other player missed out on some ships for his soulution
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2010-11-06T01:00:34  <Frontier> Eburnette_: Did you read? boc did run the optimal soulution for max growth: http://pastebin.com/mZLN8KC3
2010-11-06T01:00:44  <Frontier> ...sorry max ships
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2010-11-06T01:01:32  <Eburnette_> But lost
2010-11-06T01:03:22  <Eburnette_> Wish I could do local runs against boc or any in top 10
2010-11-06T01:03:38  <Frontier> too true ^^
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2010-11-06T01:04:50  <Eburnette_> Running against older versions of my bot isn't helping... Beat older versions but play weaker on tcp now.
2010-11-06T01:04:56  <Frontier> I don't understand why boc left his ships in the backyard, do you know? maybe if he used them on the center he would have won
2010-11-06T01:05:32  <Frontier> I had the same thing happening to me. It took me days to improve on my own bot just to find out it fails on tcp ^^.
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2010-11-06T01:07:06  <Frontier> Anyway in that game blue didn't take the optimal solution yet. He's missing out on 5 additional ships :)
2010-11-06T01:07:41  <Frontier> ...if the target was growth 13 to turn 16.
2010-11-06T01:08:18  <Eburnette_> Maybe boc was saving them to take the corner planet, or defend from side attack?
2010-11-06T01:09:45  <Frontier> what do i know, im rank 250 or so
2010-11-06T01:12:46  <Eburnette_> Yeah I can point out flaws in other bots play but they still beat me
2010-11-06T01:13:07  <demerzel_> shit my move maker is jacked up and i'm makign a new one anyway but wanted to play a little :(
2010-11-06T01:13:27  <Frontier> or you have a lot of great ideas and see that others already have an implementation of that
2010-11-06T01:14:41  <Frontier> It's a little frustrating though that I cannot find a better max ships solution than boc. All this work just to be.. wait.. as good as the #1 bot in that aspect? hell yeah! i own!
2010-11-06T01:15:22  <contestbot> Top 10 players: bocsimacko(4233), Raschi(4169), shangas(4121), george(4063), dmj111(4063), Xrillo(4020), Accoun(3997), felixcoto(3994), hutabhu(3960), Slin-.-(3952)
2010-11-06T01:17:12  <Eburnette_> Odd game: http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=876133
2010-11-06T01:18:14  <Eburnette_> Feint to bottom left?
2010-11-06T01:18:21  <demerzel_> fucking hell
2010-11-06T01:18:32  <demerzel_> i am so goddamn tired of debugging state i swear to god
2010-11-06T01:18:51  <demerzel_> i am about to offshore the qa
2010-11-06T01:18:53  <demerzel_> lol
2010-11-06T01:19:46  <Eburnette_> My state is perfect, eval  and move sel not so much
2010-11-06T01:20:00  <demerzel_> ugh i keep thinking i have state down
2010-11-06T01:20:05  <demerzel_> i tested the everliving fuck out of it
2010-11-06T01:20:10  <demerzel_> but didnt' test conquering
2010-11-06T01:20:14  <demerzel_> and of course it's bugged now
2010-11-06T01:21:00  <demerzel_> man that's just depressing
2010-11-06T01:21:10  <demerzel_> some day i'll get to actually work on move sel
2010-11-06T01:21:29  <Eburnette_> Bed time, gnite
2010-11-06T01:21:35  <demerzel_> same gn
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2010-11-06T01:22:08  <sigh> lol, demerzel_ ragequit :P
2010-11-06T01:23:05  <sigh> Frontier... I think I have an idea what you are doing... I'm going to try it
2010-11-06T01:24:01  <Frontier> you... copy me? Oo
2010-11-06T01:24:26  <sigh> your optimal thingy
2010-11-06T01:24:51  <Frontier> I should have stayed quiet. Now before I get my bot running everyone implements my ideas. I need software patents!
2010-11-06T01:24:58  <sigh> haha
2010-11-06T01:25:10  <Frontier> but first of all.. tell me what you are trying to do :D
2010-11-06T01:25:15  <sigh> :P
2010-11-06T01:25:57  <sigh> Just that I have some idea of how you cut down the search so much... I don't know if it will work... which is why I'm going to try it
2010-11-06T01:26:30  <Frontier> uh... what exactly are you trying? O.o
2010-11-06T01:27:02  <sigh> optimal solution for capturing neutrals? isn't that what you were talking about?
2010-11-06T01:27:37  <Frontier> That's it, but what is your idea on cutting down the searches?
2010-11-06T01:28:05  <sigh> I'll keep quite about that for now :)
2010-11-06T01:28:14  <sigh> *quiet
2010-11-06T01:29:08  <Frontier> but you need someone to tell you that it wont work!
2010-11-06T01:29:13  <sigh> haha
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2010-11-06T01:29:30  <Codefun64> does anyone know what the prize for AI competition 2009 was?
2010-11-06T01:29:44  <Codefun64> any of them, if there were more than one?
2010-11-06T01:29:46  <Frontier> no really, I would have saved me a lot of trouble if i could have shared some of my ideas and someone said: "that cant work, because..."
2010-11-06T01:29:50  <sigh> ask a1k0n, he won the tron one
2010-11-06T01:30:06  <Codefun64> :O didn't know he was here, otherwise I would've
2010-11-06T01:30:22  <Codefun64> a1k0n, may I be so  bold as to ask what the prize for winning in 2009 was?
2010-11-06T01:31:39  <sigh> Frontier: nah, it's simple enough that I won't really feel that bad if it doesn't work out
2010-11-06T01:32:28  <Codefun64> Talking about sharing ideas? *steals everyone's ideas* ;)
2010-11-06T01:32:41  <Frontier> like "dont take planets that have more ships and less growth than closer ones"?
2010-11-06T01:33:06  <Codefun64> I'd say a more complicated technique should be used...
2010-11-06T01:33:21  <Codefun64> For more situations, and based on distance as well...
2010-11-06T01:33:23  <sigh> Frontier: nah, more sophisticated than that...
2010-11-06T01:33:57  <Codefun64> D'oh, *embarassed face* failed compilation.... What the heck?
2010-11-06T01:33:58  <sigh> Frontier: also, I'm not sure if that is a heuristic or if it is optimal
2010-11-06T01:34:10  <sigh> what you just said
2010-11-06T01:34:12  <Frontier> common, I gave you an inspiration. you can at least tell me what you are trying.
2010-11-06T01:34:49  <Codefun64> sharing the exact details of one's bot seems rather counter productive o_O
2010-11-06T01:35:27  <Codefun64> But that's just me....
2010-11-06T01:36:51  <sigh> Frontier: one of the main non-trivial parts is ordering the search to facilitate pruning
2010-11-06T01:38:11  <Frontier> sigh: that's right. i didn't care too much about that though.
2010-11-06T01:39:33  <Frontier> sigh: so you are searching for a perfect solution, right?
2010-11-06T01:39:43  <sigh> ideally, yeah
2010-11-06T01:39:48  <Codefun64> Well there comes a point in each bots life where they all become very similar, the only differences being in the equations themselves, rather than how they're executed.
2010-11-06T01:40:09  <sigh> the other "idea" was that you weren't actually searching 22! options, because you had a horizon
2010-11-06T01:40:24  <Codefun64> There are, obviously, more differences, but those other differences get less important as you improve the bot.
2010-11-06T01:40:25  <Frontier> a horizon in terms of a turn limit
2010-11-06T01:40:31  <sigh> that's just a realisation that it might be feasible
2010-11-06T01:41:24  <Frontier> Ah, this is so helpful: bool remove = turns > MAX_TURNS || ... || ... ;
2010-11-06T01:42:12  <sigh> yeah, fair enough... atm I just want to look at the start of the game
2010-11-06T01:42:54  <Codefun64> So building a bot based off of a known time constraint with which to win or lose?
2010-11-06T01:43:16  <Codefun64> Interesting.... but in my opinion not very artificially intelligent because it uses a preset parameter which is subject to change.
2010-11-06T01:43:24  <Frontier> Codefun64: No, I was limiting the search for a good solution to 20 turns
2010-11-06T01:43:59  <Frontier> in other words the limit is set to a point in time that can still be predicted with some accuracy.
2010-11-06T01:44:01  <Codefun64> Hilariously, I have no idea how to send a private message to someone on this thing.... How do I do that?
2010-11-06T01:44:12  <Frontier> "/msg name text"
2010-11-06T01:44:14  <sigh>  /msg
2010-11-06T01:44:19  <Codefun64> Ah thanks.
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2010-11-06T01:45:15  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan
2010-11-06T01:46:29  <Codefun64> I wonder if it's possible to build an AI to produce a pattern the enemy follows and use that to it's advantage in the 1 second turn limit?
2010-11-06T01:46:42  <antimatroid1> grrr, it should be a crime to set exams on a saturday afternoon
2010-11-06T01:46:58  <Codefun64> Gotta love those evil professors :)
2010-11-06T01:47:07  <sigh> Codefun64: antimatroid1, wtf... that's crazy
2010-11-06T01:47:08  <antimatroid1> wasn't her decision, she hated it too
2010-11-06T01:47:22  <sigh> lol, ignore the Codefun64
2010-11-06T01:47:45  <Codefun64> Well... evil university?
2010-11-06T01:47:49  <Frontier> Codefun64: You should try it. Look at what the bots do. Some stream constantly, some stream in bulks, some are very aggressive, some expand more
2010-11-06T01:48:21  <sigh> it's a tricky problem
2010-11-06T01:48:22  <antimatroid1> sigh: my uni treats saturday as an extra weekday during exams
2010-11-06T01:48:34  <antimatroid1> an analysis exam in the uni bar on a saturday afternoon, go figure aha
2010-11-06T01:48:40  <sigh> the main thing is that I really don't know the best way to counter each style
2010-11-06T01:48:50  <Frontier> I will try to tell how much a bot favors expansion at least, depending on which of my pseudo optimal solutions the enemy is following.
2010-11-06T01:48:55  <sigh> I mean in a way that I could tel my bot
2010-11-06T01:49:06  <antimatroid1> there was no prize for the last contest if that wasn't said
2010-11-06T01:49:19  <Codefun64> Really there's no way to counter every style if you hardcode it
2010-11-06T01:49:26  <antimatroid1> although i think there is *something* for this one, no idea how good it is
2010-11-06T01:49:32  <Codefun64> You need dynamic code for every situation
2010-11-06T01:49:36  <antimatroid1> having said that, it looks very good job wise to do well in such a contest
2010-11-06T01:49:51  <antimatroid1> Codefun64: trees take care of that
2010-11-06T01:50:00  <Frontier> An ai-related web site is offering premium memberships
2010-11-06T01:50:07  <antimatroid1> that is hardly a prize
2010-11-06T01:50:28  <Frontier> i know, but it is sold as a prize on the forums ^^
2010-11-06T01:50:33  <antimatroid1> the fact that the website doesn't even just have people sign up means i probably wouldn't want to use it
2010-11-06T01:51:06  <Codefun64> Frontier, I think I know what you mean
2010-11-06T01:51:13  <Codefun64> can't remember site name :\
2010-11-06T01:58:01  * Codefun64 stopped recieving messages
2010-11-06T01:58:04  <Codefun64> Is anyone there?
2010-11-06T01:58:49  <TheMacca> Yes.
2010-11-06T01:59:06  <amstan> ?\
2010-11-06T02:01:59  <Codefun64> ?
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2010-11-06T02:15:21  <contestbot> Top 10 players: bocsimacko(4228), shangas(4138), Raschi(4093), dmj111(4070), george(4041), Xrillo(4007), Accoun(4005), felixcoto(3980), hutabhu(3961), Slin-.-(3949)
2010-11-06T02:37:39  <antimatroid1> does anyone in here know if there is a certain time since one does the gre exams that universities will stop looking at the scores?
2010-11-06T02:38:15  <antimatroid1> well, most importantly, would they care if it was done less than 3 years prior rather than the most recent rounds when one applies?
2010-11-06T02:38:49  <TheMacca> sorry dude, do not know
2010-11-06T02:39:08  <TheMacca> your use of "uni" before led me to believe you weren't in the US ...
2010-11-06T02:39:55  <antimatroid1> yeah, i'm australian, college to me is years 11-12, took me ages to realise that is high school in the us
2010-11-06T02:40:20  <antimatroid1> i think you even have 9-12 as high school?
2010-11-06T02:40:26  <TheMacca> heh - I used to be Australian :)
2010-11-06T02:40:31  <TheMacca> which is why I don't know much about GRE
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2010-11-06T02:41:49  <antimatroid1> yeah well, considering us/europe unis for phd, so i need to do it
2010-11-06T02:42:08  <TheMacca> studying what?
2010-11-06T02:42:18  <antimatroid1> game theory, through either cs, maths or economics
2010-11-06T02:42:37  <antimatroid1> i graduate undergrad in a month with those 3 majors, doing honours in maths next year and masters in maths the year after
2010-11-06T02:42:47  <TheMacca> nice
2010-11-06T02:42:49  <TheMacca> where in oz?
2010-11-06T02:42:52  <antimatroid1> tasmania
2010-11-06T02:42:56  <TheMacca> sweet
2010-11-06T02:42:56  <antimatroid1> although masters will be at anu
2010-11-06T02:43:01  <antimatroid1> where were you in australia?
2010-11-06T02:43:08  <TheMacca> US schools pretty expensive in comparison
2010-11-06T02:43:17  <antimatroid1> yeah, i wouldn't be going unless on full funding
2010-11-06T02:43:21  <TheMacca> I remember looking to transfer my MBA from Monash to Northwestern
2010-11-06T02:43:33  <TheMacca> one semester at NW was whole course at Monash :)
2010-11-06T02:43:36  <TheMacca> rural Vic
2010-11-06T02:43:42  <TheMacca> then Melbourne for school
2010-11-06T02:43:57  <antimatroid1> i have been working as an ra for someone with a research position at cambridge for almost two years, so i have that looking good for me too
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2010-11-06T02:44:28  <TheMacca> yeah, if you can live / study abroad, do it
2010-11-06T02:44:32  <TheMacca> awesome experience
2010-11-06T02:44:36  <TheMacca> might never go back :)
2010-11-06T02:44:37  <antimatroid1> although the work is mostly programming stats stuff for macroeconomic models, not my favourite but meh
2010-11-06T02:44:47  <antimatroid1> yeah, australia is going to shit anyway
2010-11-06T02:44:52  <TheMacca> is it really?
2010-11-06T02:44:52  <antimatroid1> i love the place, hate the political climate
2010-11-06T02:45:01  <TheMacca> haven't followed much
2010-11-06T02:45:36  <antimatroid1> although can't say i'm very fond of the us either politically, but everyone says they have the best unis
2010-11-06T02:45:48  <TheMacca> hmmmm, they have good schools from what I've seen
2010-11-06T02:45:56  <TheMacca> but I wouldn't say they're much ahead of Australian schools
2010-11-06T02:46:01  <TheMacca> maybe the very best US ones
2010-11-06T02:46:03  <TheMacca> CMU, MIT, etc
2010-11-06T02:46:06  <TheMacca> (for CS)
2010-11-06T02:46:26  <TheMacca> and education prior to tertiary level here is *unbelievably* bad
2010-11-06T02:46:51  <antimatroid1> mit is my number one preference
2010-11-06T02:47:11  <antimatroid1> there's a nice looking lab in the cs department that does mostly game THEORY which would be awesome
2010-11-06T02:47:16  <antimatroid1> but obviously retardedly competitive
2010-11-06T02:47:24  <TheMacca> know some folks who went to MIT
2010-11-06T02:47:29  <TheMacca> (colleagues)
2010-11-06T02:47:34  <TheMacca> they speak very highly of it
2010-11-06T02:48:42  <antimatroid1> yeah everyone does, and it seems to be one of the few institutions i've come across to hold a similar attitude to education as i do
2010-11-06T02:48:52  <antimatroid1> my university sucks, they're strictly running to be a business
2010-11-06T02:49:24  <antimatroid1> any money is spent on trying to attract new money, ideally one would do that to improve resources for the actual work being done there, but not where i am
2010-11-06T02:50:19  <TheMacca> you'll like the US
2010-11-06T02:50:26  <TheMacca> there's some stuff you have to ignore / get used to
2010-11-06T02:50:29  <TheMacca> but you'll like it
2010-11-06T02:50:50  <antimatroid1> i am extremely averse to participating in queues too
2010-11-06T02:50:51  <antimatroid1> i hate it
2010-11-06T02:51:15  <TheMacca> O
2010-11-06T02:51:21  <TheMacca> I'm allergic to forms ;)
2010-11-06T02:51:39  <antimatroid1> yeah, i don't do those, i didn't have to write a single essay for my classes this semester, it was wonderful
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2010-11-06T03:15:22  <contestbot> Top 10 players: bocsimacko(4250), shangas(4152), dmj111(4082), george(4077), GreenTea(4068), Raschi(4044), rsergio(4017), Xrillo(4013), Accoun(4007), felixcoto(3991)
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2010-11-06T04:15:23  <contestbot> Top 10 players: bocsimacko(4275), shangas(4163), GreenTea(4136), george(4086), dmj111(4074), Raschi(4064), Xrillo(4044), rsergio(4028), Accoun(4012), felixcoto(3998)
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2010-11-06T05:15:24  <contestbot> Top 10 players: bocsimacko(4283), shangas(4149), Raschi(4098), dmj111(4097), george(4078), GreenTea(4078), rsergio(4071), Xrillo(4042), bix0r4ever(4022), Accoun(4011)
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2010-11-06T05:37:24  <nullkuhl> is non official server working now ? it's my first time to connect to it, and i always lose in a game with only 1 turn and i get "Exiting because server closed connection"
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2010-11-06T05:41:26  <nullkuhl> ok i get a time out in non official server, although it's the same file i submitted in official server
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2010-11-06T06:15:25  <contestbot> Top 10 players: bocsimacko(4259), shangas(4125), Raschi(4077), dmj111(4072), GreenTea(4059), george(4052), rsergio(4046), Xrillo(4031), bix0r4ever(3998), Accoun(3987)
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2010-11-06T06:35:06  <p4p4> nullkuhl, so, you're up. what was it ?
2010-11-06T06:35:34  <nullkuhl> p4p4: am still having problems,
2010-11-06T06:35:46  <nullkuhl> i tried from cygwin using tcp.c and tried from windows using the java client
2010-11-06T06:35:54  <nullkuhl> in the java client i timeout and server closes connection
2010-11-06T06:36:06  <p4p4> TCP.jar works well for me
2010-11-06T06:36:28  <nullkuhl> in cygwin using ./tcp i get kill: No such process
2010-11-06T06:36:48  <p4p4> iand i spotted a fork, also
2010-11-06T06:36:50  <antimatroid1> have you used jBotManager?
2010-11-06T06:36:59  <antimatroid1> http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=751
2010-11-06T06:37:27  <nullkuhl> antimatroid1: i saw the game online using the HTML5 viewer  , its only 1 turn :S
2010-11-06T06:37:51  <nullkuhl> p4p4: do i need to do any special IO so that mybot works on the non official server ?
2010-11-06T06:38:01  <nullkuhl> p4p4: because the very same submission works on the official one.
2010-11-06T06:38:07  *** TheMacca <TheMacca!4b1bebcb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.27.235.203> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2010-11-06T06:38:29  <p4p4> hey, but e just had a game!
2010-11-06T06:38:34  <p4p4> we
2010-11-06T06:38:59  <nullkuhl> yeah, that was the default MyBot in the starter pack
2010-11-06T06:39:54  <p4p4> did you mes with the io in your other bot ?
2010-11-06T06:41:03  <nullkuhl> nop
2010-11-06T06:41:07  <nullkuhl> its the same main method
2010-11-06T06:42:06  <nullkuhl> could it be that i use external classes
2010-11-06T06:44:14  <nullkuhl> p4p4: now i was using the TCP.jar with the default bot, and i got a time out
2010-11-06T06:44:51  <antimatroid1> oh god, even thre gre exam is going a bad direction
2010-11-06T06:45:04  <antimatroid1> "New types of questions in the Verbal Reasoning and Quantitative Reasoning sections, many featuring real-life scenarios that reflect the kind of thinking you'll do in today's demanding graduate and business school programs." erghhh
2010-11-06T06:45:12  <nullkuhl> lol
2010-11-06T06:45:20  <antimatroid1> at least the maths subject test looks fairly straight forward
2010-11-06T06:48:42  <nullkuhl> p4p4, antimatroid1: is the 72.44.46.68 server pingable ?
2010-11-06T06:49:32  <antimatroid1> don't think s
2010-11-06T06:49:33  <antimatroid1> o
2010-11-06T06:49:41  <antimatroid1> the old one was
2010-11-06T06:51:22  <p4p4> no ping
2010-11-06T06:51:30  <nullkuhl> am suspecting a latency problem that is causing my timeout
2010-11-06T06:52:44  <p4p4> if you've got  a dynamic ip, maybe logging off, and on again ?
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2010-11-06T06:57:13  <nullkuhl> p4p4: again, only default bot is working , and with tcp.c   however with TCP.jar all default bot times out as well
2010-11-06T06:59:22  <p4p4> just got timed out myself..
2010-11-06T07:00:29  <nullkuhl> p4p4: yeah i saw it, heavy load on server ?
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2010-11-06T07:00:48  <nullkuhl> it doesnt make since anyway to force timeout rules on non official server, since the bots arent running locally
2010-11-06T07:01:06  <p4p4> no, shitty wireless usb-modem, bad on rainy days ;(
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2010-11-06T07:02:22  <antimatroid1> if you had no timeouts some poor sod would get stuck playing someone for hours
2010-11-06T07:02:27  <antimatroid1> there needs to be some timeout
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2010-11-06T07:03:44  <nullkuhl> p4p4: any idea where the server is located ?
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2010-11-06T07:05:39  <p4p4> api.hostip.info says : seattle
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2010-11-06T07:07:11  <nullkuhl> i think the ping is enough to time me out then
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2010-11-06T07:15:06  <lavalamp_> timeout on tcp server is longer than 1 second
2010-11-06T07:15:12  <lavalamp_> I think it's 2 but not sure
2010-11-06T07:15:25  <contestbot> Top 10 players: bocsimacko(4270), shangas(4141), dmj111(4078), Raschi(4076), rsergio(4073), george(4055), GreenTea(4019), Xrillo(4010), bix0r4ever(3999), Accoun(3996)
2010-11-06T07:17:57  <nullkuhl> lavalamp_: yes, the problem remains the same, people who are far from the server are more likely to get timeouts
2010-11-06T07:18:42  <lavalamp_> nullkuh1 yeah, maybe it should be increased further
2010-11-06T07:21:25  <nullkuhl> lavalamp_: any idea who is hosting it ? so that i can ask for timeout increasing ?
2010-11-06T07:21:46  <sigh> tcp server timeout is 10 sec on first move, 5 sec thereafter
2010-11-06T07:21:57  <sigh> dhartmei is hosting the tcp server
2010-11-06T07:27:40  <nullkuhl> on ubuntu now am getting  execv: java: No such file or directory
2010-11-06T07:28:13  <nullkuhl> when ./tcp 72.44.46.68 995 nullkuhl -p mypassword java MyBot
2010-11-06T07:30:10  <lavalamp_> is java installed?
2010-11-06T07:30:24  <sigh> oh right, I don't think the bot exec can have options
2010-11-06T07:30:27  <lavalamp_> it sounds like it's not in your path correctly if it is
2010-11-06T07:30:35  <sigh> try putting java MyBot into a small script
2010-11-06T07:30:36  <lavalamp_> sigh: yeah it can
2010-11-06T07:30:41  <lavalamp_> I do it
2010-11-06T07:30:42  <sigh> oh ok, it didn't used to
2010-11-06T07:30:51  <lavalamp_> he must have changed it ^^
2010-11-06T07:31:30  <nullkuhl> lavalamp_: java is installed and in my path, (i can type java MyBot anywhere and it works)
2010-11-06T07:31:40  <lavalamp_> that's weird
2010-11-06T07:31:52  <nullkuhl> ill try doing what sigh suggested
2010-11-06T07:31:55  <lavalamp_> maybe you have a version of tcp.c that doesn't allow args?
2010-11-06T07:32:05  <nullkuhl> hmm lavalamp_ link to the new one ?
2010-11-06T07:32:15  <lavalamp_> @tcp
2010-11-06T07:32:16  <contestbot> lavalamp_: tcp = (#1) http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/, or (#2) http://72.44.46.68/
2010-11-06T07:32:31  <nullkuhl> lavalamp_: yes i used the tcp.c over there
2010-11-06T07:32:37  <lavalamp_> huh
2010-11-06T07:32:43  <nullkuhl> http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/tcp.c
2010-11-06T07:32:45  <lavalamp_> that's what I grabbed: http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/tcp.c
2010-11-06T07:32:48  <nullkuhl> same
2010-11-06T07:32:49  <lavalamp_> haha
2010-11-06T07:33:05  <antimatroid1> nobodies even begun to really approach on bocsimacko level
2010-11-06T07:34:30  <antimatroid1> it looks like bots have finally started getting better in general, sigh is down to 64th
2010-11-06T07:34:36  <lavalamp_> I have another big bug :(
2010-11-06T07:34:59  <sigh> antimatroid1: yeah... although rankings are very unstable
2010-11-06T07:35:02  <antimatroid1> i just compiled my bot before, it made an invalid move when i ran it, haven't looked at the code since
2010-11-06T07:35:12  <antimatroid1> sigh: you were fairly stable above 40 for a while
2010-11-06T07:35:17  <sigh> over hte last week i've been from 45 to 22 to 75 down to 64
2010-11-06T07:35:23  <antimatroid1> hmm, okay
2010-11-06T07:35:30  <antimatroid1> i haven't really been paying much attention
2010-11-06T07:35:48  <sigh> me neither, but I usually check my rank once a day or so
2010-11-06T07:36:11  <antimatroid1> i don't have one to check atm :P
2010-11-06T07:36:24  <nullkuhl> MyBot$ ./tcp 72.44.46.68 995 nullkuhl -p 357159 ./MyBot.sh   execv: ./MyBot.sh: Exec format error
2010-11-06T07:36:27  <sigh> I remeber at the start of the week McLeopold went up from something like 99 to 58
2010-11-06T07:36:31  <sigh> and his bot is months old
2010-11-06T07:36:32  <nullkuhl> sigh: doesnt work
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2010-11-06T07:36:51  <antimatroid1> yeah, has it been confirmed that elo's will be reset when the final tournament starts
2010-11-06T07:36:55  <antimatroid1> they didn't do that last time
2010-11-06T07:36:58  <sigh> nullkuhl: that is really odd
2010-11-06T07:37:11  <lavalamp_> ./MyBot.sh works?
2010-11-06T07:37:15  <nullkuhl> yes
2010-11-06T07:37:18  <sigh> you chmod it, right?
2010-11-06T07:37:20  <nullkuhl> yup
2010-11-06T07:37:28  <lavalamp_> maybe tcp needs some sort of permissions?
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2010-11-06T07:37:59  <antimatroid1> silly question (i'm terrible at these things) but can your network access the port?
2010-11-06T07:38:08  <antimatroid1> i guess it has to to connect at all
2010-11-06T07:38:44  <nullkuhl> antimatroid1: i have no firewalls, and since its me who is connected to server i probably dont need any portfowarding
2010-11-06T07:38:51  <nullkuhl> forwarding*
2010-11-06T07:38:57  <antimatroid1> yeah, i didn't need to forward any ports
2010-11-06T07:38:58  <lavalamp_> hm, if you run the bot in a script like that, will stdin/out get set up correctly?
2010-11-06T07:39:41  <nullkuhl> when i tried ./Mybot.sh  it executed and i was able to type in input, didnt try proper input though, tcp is rejecting it as a parameter anyway
2010-11-06T07:39:49  <sigh> lavalamp_: sure it will
2010-11-06T07:40:11  <lavalamp_> ok, just checking.... shell scripts are not my specialty
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2010-11-06T07:40:39  <sigh> nullkuhl: try running one of the example bots?
2010-11-06T07:40:45  <nullkuhl> i think even if i pass it an empty .sh file it will say exec format error
2010-11-06T07:40:53  <nullkuhl> should i pass any flags to tcp ?
2010-11-06T07:41:42  <nullkuhl> tcp 72.44.46.68 995 nullkuhl -p password ./MyBot.sh       execv: ./MyBot.sh: Exec format error
2010-11-06T07:41:56  <antimatroid1> ahhh, i'm not making illegal moves, i'm timing out
2010-11-06T07:41:58  <antimatroid1> stupid bot
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2010-11-06T07:43:26  <nullkuhl> any of you coding his bot in java ?
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2010-11-06T07:44:16  <sigh> i'm not
2010-11-06T07:44:19  <antimatroid1> sorry
2010-11-06T07:44:32  <sigh> nullkuhl: humor me and try running the command without -p password
2010-11-06T07:46:11  <nullkuhl> sigh: execv: ./MyBot.sh: Exec format error  , could it be that the new tcp has a new format for arguments ? would you try it plz ?
2010-11-06T07:47:24  <sigh> I can connect
2010-11-06T07:47:56  <nullkuhl> would you paste the command that you used?
2010-11-06T07:48:21  <sigh> ./tcp/tcp 72.44.46.68 995 test-1 bot/Config2
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2010-11-06T07:49:31  <bhasker> question , when you guys are deciding free ships which state do you use
2010-11-06T07:49:43  <bhasker> the state of the map as of this turn
2010-11-06T07:49:55  <bhasker> or the state of the map as it will look when all fleets have landed
2010-11-06T07:49:59  <sigh> nullkuhl: successfully played a game: http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=879432
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2010-11-06T07:50:30  <nullkuhl> sigh: bot/Config2 is a script ?
2010-11-06T07:50:50  <sigh> I'm using C++, it is my compiled bot
2010-11-06T07:50:56  <nullkuhl> hmm
2010-11-06T07:51:03  <sigh> rather, sme random version
2010-11-06T07:51:28  <lavalamp_> bhasker: what do you mean by "free" ships?
2010-11-06T07:51:31  <sigh> I'll try with password, and put it in a script
2010-11-06T07:51:37  <bhasker> when i mean available ships
2010-11-06T07:51:42  <bhasker> with which you can do something
2010-11-06T07:51:56  <bhasker> basically # of ships that you can send out from a planet without losing it
2010-11-06T07:52:03  <lavalamp_> I compute "newly availible ships" per planet per turn
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2010-11-06T07:52:23  <antimatroid1> bhasker: i do a sweep at the start of each turn, and a planet owned by a player can send at that time the new ships it has that turn
2010-11-06T07:52:25  <sigh> bhasker: I use neither really, it depends on how far away other planets are and how many ships are coming
2010-11-06T07:52:26  <lavalamp_> ah ok I do something more complicated than that
2010-11-06T07:52:27  <antimatroid1> whether from incoming or growth
2010-11-06T07:52:39  <antimatroid1> and i update that information for each turn i make
2010-11-06T07:52:55  <bhasker> so my question is how do you account for stuff like
2010-11-06T07:53:01  <bhasker> a neutral being taken with 200 ships
2010-11-06T07:53:06  <bhasker> 2 turns from now
2010-11-06T07:53:09  <bhasker> which is close to you
2010-11-06T07:53:35  <bhasker> sometimes what happens is i determine that since its a neutral it can't send ships this turn
2010-11-06T07:53:40  <sigh> well, if it is 5 distance away I look at how many ships it will have in 5 turns
2010-11-06T07:53:46  <bhasker> oh hmm
2010-11-06T07:54:17  <bhasker> so basically for planet X
2010-11-06T07:54:27  <antimatroid1> i say that i can send 200 ships from there in 2 turns time
2010-11-06T07:54:44  <bhasker> you scan # of ships each planet will have at turn Y where Y is the distance between X and each of the other planets?
2010-11-06T07:54:46  <antimatroid1> and will use those ships in a move
2010-11-06T07:55:16  <sigh> bhasker: sorry, that's not right... I confused myself
2010-11-06T07:55:25  <bhasker> hmm
2010-11-06T07:55:43  <lavalamp_> My code would find 200 newly availible ships on the just captured neutral in two turns
2010-11-06T07:56:00  <bhasker> but how do you factor that into how many ships one can send at this turn
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2010-11-06T07:56:31  <antimatroid1> because my "moves" consist of a destination planet, then a vector of "fleets" which have (source, timesent, timeadded)
2010-11-06T07:56:48  <bhasker> no no i mean when the enemy is capturing that neutral
2010-11-06T07:56:58  <antimatroid1> what do you mean?
2010-11-06T07:57:07  <antimatroid1> i assume they can send what they'd have then
2010-11-06T07:57:08  <bhasker> basically lets say enemy sends a large fleet at a neutral close to one of your planets
2010-11-06T07:57:19  <lavalamp_> my defense/fortification code "holds" ships (subtracts them from that newly availible metric) when they are required for defense, so the other parts of my code don't even know those ships exist
2010-11-06T07:57:24  <bhasker> at turn X its still neutral
2010-11-06T07:57:38  <antimatroid1> what are you trying to calculate?
2010-11-06T07:57:38  <bhasker> now how many ships can you send from a planet close to the neutral at turn X
2010-11-06T07:57:50  <lavalamp_> oh the enemy is taking it? uhhhh
2010-11-06T07:57:53  <bhasker> yes
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2010-11-06T07:58:14  <lavalamp_> ah yeah ok
2010-11-06T07:58:34  <lavalamp_> my fortify code scans ahead on neutrals to determine who takes them
2010-11-06T07:58:40  <antimatroid1> you want to take it before the enemy and be safe? you want (timeTheyArrive-timeYouArrive)*newGrowth + yourShips-neutralShips >= theirIncoming
2010-11-06T07:58:42  <antimatroid1> or something like that
2010-11-06T07:58:48  <bhasker> but what if you can't
2010-11-06T07:58:58  <bhasker> you just don't have enough ships closer
2010-11-06T07:59:12  <antimatroid1> then don't attack it
2010-11-06T07:59:43  <bhasker> yes but how do you figure out how many ships you can send out for other attacks at turn X , factoring in that 2 turns from now there will be a large fleet outside your door
2010-11-06T07:59:50  <lavalamp_> I treat neutrals that will be capture by the opponent as if they already belong to him but won't be able to send ships until the turn they're captured
2010-11-06T08:00:12  <lavalamp_> bbl
2010-11-06T08:01:15  <antimatroid1> bhasker: you can assume they send all their fleets at you into the future
2010-11-06T08:01:20  <antimatroid1> but you get crippled really fast then
2010-11-06T08:01:30  <antimatroid1> you could assume they send all fleets in the next 10 turns at you
2010-11-06T08:01:41  <bhasker> so basically what i was trying to do was something lke this
2010-11-06T08:01:55  <bhasker> if at turn X enemy was to launch all his ships at my planet and I was to do the same
2010-11-06T08:02:00  <bhasker> who will end up holding it
2010-11-06T08:02:09  <bhasker> if i do and it never switches to the enemy
2010-11-06T08:02:50  <antimatroid1> that's pretty much what i'm currently trying to do
2010-11-06T08:02:51  <bhasker> i send the minimum number of ships the planet has across all the turns
2010-11-06T08:02:56  <bhasker> the problem though is
2010-11-06T08:02:59  <bhasker> how do you account for
2010-11-06T08:03:03  <bhasker> a) ships in flight
2010-11-06T08:03:07  <antimatroid1> i simulate all out attacks on a planet, if i can hold, add that as a plausible move, update information and repeat
2010-11-06T08:03:08  <bhasker> he may have launched a huge fleet
2010-11-06T08:03:18  <antimatroid1> i assume they can send fleets like i can
2010-11-06T08:03:28  <bhasker> and how do you account for fleets heading towards neutrals
2010-11-06T08:03:34  <antimatroid1> so if he has 200 ships there in 2 moves turn, he can send 200 then, and g amount every turn after
2010-11-06T08:03:52  <antimatroid1> i have a future states vector telling me exactly what i expect the state of a planet to be in t turns
2010-11-06T08:03:59  <bhasker> i have that
2010-11-06T08:04:06  <antimatroid1> so just use the new ships there
2010-11-06T08:04:23  <bhasker> i think i am not being able to explain my problem
2010-11-06T08:04:31  <bhasker> let me find a game that has the problem i am trying to solve
2010-11-06T08:04:31  <antimatroid1> if(owner = oldowner )
2010-11-06T08:04:31  <antimatroid1> newships = currentships-oldships
2010-11-06T08:04:31  <antimatroid1> else
2010-11-06T08:04:31  <antimatroid1> newships = currentships
2010-11-06T08:05:19  <antimatroid1> that gives the number of ships sendable at each time point, i also have another scan before that to ensure i don't send out fleets for a planet that's going to be lost with that much sent out, but eventually i hope to remove that
2010-11-06T08:07:04  <bhasker> hmm
2010-11-06T08:07:46  <bhasker> btw question
2010-11-06T08:07:49  <bhasker> http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=879538
2010-11-06T08:08:01  <bhasker> do you think i could have done anything to prevent those snipes
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2010-11-06T08:08:52  <antimatroid1> i think my current plan would
2010-11-06T08:08:58  <antimatroid1> as described above
2010-11-06T08:09:16  <bhasker> hmm
2010-11-06T08:09:44  <antimatroid1> ideally i think you want to send one fleet towards the middle there though
2010-11-06T08:09:48  <sigh> bhasker: you could have defended against those snipes
2010-11-06T08:09:52  <sigh> you had enough ships
2010-11-06T08:10:08  <bhasker> hmm i think i have a bug
2010-11-06T08:10:09  <bhasker> lol
2010-11-06T08:10:16  <bhasker> i just saw my state handling
2010-11-06T08:10:16  <bhasker> :(
2010-11-06T08:10:26  <bhasker> for some reason it decided it has 1 free ship
2010-11-06T08:10:26  <bhasker> only
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2010-11-06T08:10:28  <bhasker> no idea why
2010-11-06T08:10:37  <bhasker> i think my battle resolution code is buggy
2010-11-06T08:10:46  <antimatroid1> i think everyones is
2010-11-06T08:10:51  <antimatroid1> except perhaps bocksimacko
2010-11-06T08:10:56  <antimatroid1> -k
2010-11-06T08:11:13  <nullkuhl> sigh: ok i am able to run my bot now using : ./tcp 72.44.46.68 995 nullkuhl2 /usr/bin/java MyBot  but its always a 1 turn game
2010-11-06T08:11:28  <sigh> what does the output say?
2010-11-06T08:11:57  <javagamer> Yesterday I ran into a problem where I would have to rewrite something and the thought of figuring out how it should work was so intimidating I did my math homework instead.  However, once I started explaining it to someone I saw an amazingly elegant way to do it and now I'm feeling really good about my bot.
2010-11-06T08:12:01  <sigh> nullkuhl: also I tried running in a shellscript... I got the same problem... no idea why. I clearly don
2010-11-06T08:12:06  <nullkuhl> connected to 72.44.46.68:995, waiting for game You currently have -999999 Elo There are currently 24 connections and 11 games running Your map is maps/map512.txt Your opponent is p4p4.p4 with -341 Elo This is game_id=879596
2010-11-06T08:12:13  <sigh> I clearly don't understand execv very well
2010-11-06T08:12:38  <p4p4> nullkuhl, you sent an  invalid issue
2010-11-06T08:13:01  <nullkuhl> p4p4: huh ?! am using the very same java file that i submitted on official server
2010-11-06T08:13:38  <p4p4> http://72.44.46.68/getplayer?player=nullkuhl2
2010-11-06T08:14:17  <nullkuhl> really wierd
2010-11-06T08:14:40  <nullkuhl> k ill try the .jar tcp client and see if it has the same issue
2010-11-06T08:14:45  <p4p4> man you're having a bad day..
2010-11-06T08:15:24  <contestbot> Top 10 players: bocsimacko(4267), shangas(4145), dmj111(4087), Raschi(4082), rsergio(4081), george(4059), GreenTea(4024), Xrillo(4015), bix0r4ever(4008), Accoun(4001)
2010-11-06T08:16:50  <nullkuhl> http://72.44.46.68/getplayer?player=nullkuhl2  from TCP.jar on windows i get a timeout, from tcp.c on linux i get an invalid input !!
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2010-11-06T08:22:22  <nullkuhl> p4p4: default bot works fine using tcp.c on linux though
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2010-11-06T08:28:32  <p4p4> well, work on it, - tcp needs more players!! it's not nice to be flat-ironed by the same top 30 ppl all day ;)
2010-11-06T08:31:00  <javagamer> p4p4, if everything goes well I should be able to put my bot up there to be crushed before the day is over
2010-11-06T08:31:11  <nullkuhl> p4p4: aff , works now !!
2010-11-06T08:31:41  <nullkuhl> started from scratch recompiled everything, and it works now on tcp.c on linux, however TCP.jar times out..
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2010-11-06T08:49:53  <javagamer> My bot is at least in a working state again
2010-11-06T09:02:45  <bhasker> my bot is doing stupid stuff but it just won two games against bockismacko lol
2010-11-06T09:02:52  <bhasker> http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=879905
2010-11-06T09:03:22  <bhasker> http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=880007
2010-11-06T09:08:50  <Frontier> that were both ties -.-, hehe
2010-11-06T09:09:50  <bhasker> mmm..i won at turn 200:p
2010-11-06T09:09:52  <bhasker> thats what counts
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2010-11-06T09:10:15  <bhasker> in first one i was 2 growth ahead too:p
2010-11-06T09:10:22  <bhasker> so i don't see how you say that it was a tie
2010-11-06T09:13:45  <nullkuhl> i get disconnected randomly on non official server.
2010-11-06T09:15:25  <contestbot> Top 10 players: bocsimacko(4282), shangas(4147), rsergio(4106), Raschi(4099), dmj111(4064), george(4062), bix0r4ever(4057), Xrillo(4015), GreenTea(3999), Accoun(3991)
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2010-11-06T09:16:54  <bhasker> wow my official submission bot is on a losing streak
2010-11-06T09:16:59  <bhasker> went from #30 to 65
2010-11-06T09:17:01  <bhasker> http://ai-contest.com/profile_games.php?user_id=5822
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2010-11-06T09:25:40  <bhasker> one victory lucky,two lucky, three in a row ??? wtf
2010-11-06T09:26:28  <bhasker> http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=880223
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2010-11-06T09:35:09  <antimatroid1> bhasker: nice
2010-11-06T09:35:25  <antimatroid1> my utter retard bot beat you before though
2010-11-06T09:35:28  <bhasker> though my bot is doing horribly overall otherwise
2010-11-06T09:35:31  <antimatroid1> and i expected it to lose every game
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2010-11-06T09:35:32  <bhasker> yea :-\
2010-11-06T09:35:43  <bhasker> i have no clue how itmanaged to beat bockismacko
2010-11-06T09:35:49  <bhasker> its been idiotic
2010-11-06T09:35:52  <bhasker> otherwise
2010-11-06T09:36:13  <bhasker> example http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=880269
2010-11-06T09:36:22  <bhasker> i should have never lost that game
2010-11-06T09:36:45  <antimatroid1> http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=880076 that was me :P
2010-11-06T09:37:01  <bhasker> ah yea
2010-11-06T09:37:02  <bhasker> it got sniped
2010-11-06T09:37:07  <bhasker> and never sniped yours
2010-11-06T09:37:11  <bhasker> that ended the game
2010-11-06T09:37:27  <antimatroid1> yeah, that bot shouldn't be winning any games though :P
2010-11-06T09:37:31  <bhasker> heh
2010-11-06T09:37:35  <bhasker> why is that?
2010-11-06T09:37:39  <antimatroid1> http://72.44.46.68/getplayer?player=r :P
2010-11-06T09:38:00  <antimatroid1> it doesn't have all my stuff and it's very buggy
2010-11-06T09:38:04  <antimatroid1> i was trying to break it
2010-11-06T09:38:24  <bhasker> ah
2010-11-06T09:38:47  <bhasker> i guess mine is buggier than yours lol
2010-11-06T09:38:50  <bhasker> :-\
2010-11-06T09:38:56  <bhasker> may the less buggy bot win
2010-11-06T09:41:21  <antimatroid1> hehe
2010-11-06T09:41:34  <bhasker> oh well i still lose to shampoo
2010-11-06T09:41:35  <bhasker> sigh
2010-11-06T09:41:42  <bhasker> i am like this close to giving up
2010-11-06T09:41:50  <bhasker> i am tired of improving this bot and making it worse
2010-11-06T09:41:51  <bhasker> than before
2010-11-06T09:42:08  <bhasker> and local testing is practically useless now
2010-11-06T09:42:16  <bhasker> defeating my older bot is kinda pointless
2010-11-06T09:42:59  <bhasker> i have no idea how my bot manages this
2010-11-06T09:43:06  <bhasker> 2010-11-06 06:42:25,990-v0.1-DEBUG- Turn:81                    doTurn() - MyProduction:27,EnemyProduction:29
2010-11-06T09:43:06  <bhasker> 2010-11-06 06:42:25,990-v0.1-DEBUG- Turn:81                    doTurn() - MyShips:1633,EnemyShips:1360
2010-11-06T09:43:06  <bhasker> 2
2010-11-06T09:43:11  <bhasker> 2010-11-06 06:42:40,383-v0.1-DEBUG- Turn:101                    doTurn() - MyProduction:27,EnemyProduction:32
2010-11-06T09:43:11  <bhasker> 2010-11-06 06:42:40,384-v0.1-DEBUG- Turn:101                    doTurn() - MyShips:1614,EnemyShips:1497
2010-11-06T09:43:14  <sigh> bhasker is using my name in vain again
2010-11-06T09:43:16  <bhasker> 2010-11-06 06:42:46,390-v0.1-DEBUG- Turn:111                    doTurn() - MyProduction:22,EnemyProduction:42
2010-11-06T09:43:16  <bhasker> 2010-11-06 06:42:46,390-v0.1-DEBUG- Turn:111                    doTurn() - MyShips:504,EnemyShips:603
2010-11-06T09:43:28  <bhasker> it burnt a 300 ship advantage
2010-11-06T09:43:37  <bhasker> !@#!@#!@#
2010-11-06T09:43:43  <sigh> bhasker: yeah, I kind of feel like that sometimes... that's why I took 2 week break earlier
2010-11-06T09:45:14  <sigh> bhasker: ships aren't everything, maybe your bot just had crappy planet positions
2010-11-06T09:45:22  <bhasker> lol no
2010-11-06T09:45:24  <bhasker> i just realized
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2010-11-06T09:45:29  <bhasker> its my stupid neutral acquisition logic
2010-11-06T09:45:44  <bhasker> check turn 89 http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=880367
2010-11-06T09:45:49  <bhasker> i overestimated # of ships required
2010-11-06T09:46:50  <sigh> haha
2010-11-06T09:47:12  <sigh> more like underestimated the number of ships required for defence
2010-11-06T09:47:44  <bhasker> that too
2010-11-06T09:47:45  <bhasker> lol
2010-11-06T09:48:00  <bhasker> but if i hadn't gone for those two neutrals
2010-11-06T09:48:05  <bhasker> i could have easily taken back the planets
2010-11-06T09:48:24  <bhasker> the thing is my bot if it starts losing it tries to stretch a bit over minimal defense
2010-11-06T09:48:45  <sigh> fair enough
2010-11-06T09:49:33  <bhasker> thats why it went for both those neutrals
2010-11-06T09:49:40  <bhasker> one should have been enough though
2010-11-06T09:49:41  <bhasker> i think
2010-11-06T09:49:57  <sigh> makes sense
2010-11-06T09:50:13  <bhasker> maybe not
2010-11-06T09:50:22  <bhasker> there was an 8 growth difference
2010-11-06T09:50:29  <bhasker> if it had attacked and taken a planet back
2010-11-06T09:50:37  <bhasker> it would have been even
2010-11-06T09:50:41  <bhasker> actually it didnt need a neutral
2010-11-06T09:50:42  <bhasker> hmm
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2010-11-06T09:51:05  *** irchs is now known as janstaunton
2010-11-06T09:51:24  <bhasker> it had a 300 ship advantage
2010-11-06T09:51:27  <bhasker> should have just attacked
2010-11-06T09:55:21  <bhasker> sigh did you upload a new version to official yet?
2010-11-06T09:55:31  <sigh> nope
2010-11-06T09:55:51  <Frontier> hey sigh, any improvement on what you wanted to try?
2010-11-06T09:56:16  <sigh> nah, got side-tracked
2010-11-06T09:56:18  *** _boegel_ <_boegel_!~boegel@c083h041.ugent.be> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2010-11-06T09:56:46  *** Itkovian_ <Itkovian_!~Itkovian@c083h041.ugent.be> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2010-11-06T09:56:49  <Frontier> what does side-tracked mean, english is not my mother tongue
2010-11-06T09:58:25  <bhasker> ./commit suicide
2010-11-06T09:58:31  <sigh> distracted
2010-11-06T09:58:35  <bhasker> Your opponent is janstaunton with 48 Elo
2010-11-06T09:58:36  <bhasker> This is game_id=880583
2010-11-06T09:58:36  <bhasker> You LOSE against janstaunton
2010-11-06T09:58:36  <bhasker> t
2010-11-06T09:58:38  <bhasker> :-\
2010-11-06T09:58:41  <janstaunton> wraaaa
2010-11-06T09:58:42  <janstaunton> :)
2010-11-06T09:58:52  <bhasker> your bot has been beating mine
2010-11-06T09:58:55  <bhasker> quite often
2010-11-06T09:58:58  <bhasker> 1@#!@#!@3
2010-11-06T09:59:00  <janstaunton> What's your username?
2010-11-06T09:59:07  <bhasker> malazan
2010-11-06T09:59:11  <janstaunton> ah yeah
2010-11-06T09:59:13  <janstaunton> hello :)
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2010-11-06T09:59:33  <janstaunton> My bot has some very bad worst cases
2010-11-06T09:59:39  <janstaunton> Just fixing them now :)
2010-11-06T10:00:29  <janstaunton> Also
2010-11-06T10:00:38  <janstaunton> Need to examine how bocsimacko is expanding so efficiently
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2010-11-06T10:01:24  *** Migi32 <Migi32!~migi@d54C1291D.access.telenet.be> has joined #aichallenge
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2010-11-06T10:03:49  <bhasker> he is calculating ships he will have in future
2010-11-06T10:03:54  <bhasker> into his calculations
2010-11-06T10:04:00  <Migi32> hi everyone
2010-11-06T10:04:04  <Migi32> who is he?
2010-11-06T10:04:05  <bhasker> so he factors in neutrals before he captures them
2010-11-06T10:04:09  <janstaunton> yeah I need to start doing that...
2010-11-06T10:04:13  <bhasker> mega1/bockismacko
2010-11-06T10:04:18  <Migi32> k
2010-11-06T10:04:52  <Migi32> it'd be pretty embarassing if he didn't do those calculations
2010-11-06T10:05:13  <janstaunton> How do full state space search bots favour?
2010-11-06T10:05:22  <janstaunton> I think they aren't possible without some serious optimisations
2010-11-06T10:07:09  *** Itkovian <Itkovian!~Itkovian@c083h041.ugent.be> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2010-11-06T10:07:19  <Migi32> I think you are right about that
2010-11-06T10:08:26  <janstaunton> Are all the big hitters here then?
2010-11-06T10:10:53  <antimatroid1> i'm pretty sure he's doing it a similar way to what i described earlier
2010-11-06T10:10:56  <antimatroid1> but i could be weong
2010-11-06T10:10:59  <antimatroid1> wrong**
2010-11-06T10:11:08  <antimatroid1> anyway, bedtime, night
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2010-11-06T10:15:19  <Migi32> he doesn't really talk too much
2010-11-06T10:15:25  <contestbot> Top 10 players: bocsimacko(4296), shangas(4161), rsergio(4123), Raschi(4114), dmj111(4078), george(4076), bix0r4ever(4072), Xrillo(4028), GreenTea(4016), Accoun(4013)
2010-11-06T10:15:26  <Migi32> I mean, if you ask a question, he will answer
2010-11-06T10:15:52  <Migi32> but he won't openly explain the internals of his bot, like some of us are doing here
2010-11-06T10:16:01  <janstaunton> ah
2010-11-06T10:16:07  <janstaunton> Well that's fair considering he is winning
2010-11-06T10:16:15  <janstaunton> He using LISP too, meaning he prolly has some skilsl
2010-11-06T10:16:16  <janstaunton> :)
2010-11-06T10:16:19  <janstaunton> skills even
2010-11-06T10:16:28  <Migi32> no shit sherlock ;)
2010-11-06T10:17:40  <Migi32> is Lisp a compiled language?
2010-11-06T10:17:55  <janstaunton> depends
2010-11-06T10:17:58  <janstaunton> It can be compiled
2010-11-06T10:18:19  <janstaunton> It would be very impressive if it was fully interpreted
2010-11-06T10:18:25  <janstaunton> (his bot I mean)
2010-11-06T10:18:53  <siconize> question: do crashed-on-first-turn-matches count for elo?
2010-11-06T10:19:03  <antimatroid1> yes
2010-11-06T10:19:04  <Migi32> siconize, yes
2010-11-06T10:19:09  <siconize> :/
2010-11-06T10:19:10  <siconize> why
2010-11-06T10:19:15  <Migi32> why not?
2010-11-06T10:19:22  <Migi32> you crash, you lose
2010-11-06T10:19:22  <siconize> because the bot crashed? :D
2010-11-06T10:19:38  <siconize> yes but i am sure that its not my bots fault
2010-11-06T10:20:11  <Migi32> ah, like that. I thought these kind of problems had been fixed.
2010-11-06T10:20:28  <siconize> me too
2010-11-06T10:20:41  <siconize> but i had several of those crashes since my last upload
2010-11-06T10:21:01  <siconize> and crashing on turn 0 does not give me any advantage :p
2010-11-06T10:21:09  <Migi32> what language are you using?
2010-11-06T10:21:16  <siconize> c# ofcourse :D :D
2010-11-06T10:21:38  <siconize> i mean is their any other language with those troubles? ^^
2010-11-06T10:21:41  <siconize> ;)
2010-11-06T10:22:27  <siconize> there*
2010-11-06T10:22:39  <Migi32> :)
2010-11-06T10:22:51  <Migi32> well, the only thing you can do is wait until the problems get fixed, I think
2010-11-06T10:23:10  <Migi32> no use in contacting the contest organizers, they know
2010-11-06T10:23:29  <siconize> yes, i read the forum threads etc. :/
2010-11-06T10:24:11  <Migi32> but don't worry, any matches your bot is fighting now don't count for your final score yet, only after 27/11 they will
2010-11-06T10:24:24  <janstaunton> How long does the final tournament last for?
2010-11-06T10:24:32  <Migi32> no idea
2010-11-06T10:24:34  <siconize> 4 days(?)
2010-11-06T10:24:45  <Migi32> 4 days until the results are announced
2010-11-06T10:24:49  <siconize> Saturday Nov 27, 2010: submission deadline. No submissions will be accepted after 11:59 PM.  Wednesday Dec 1, 2010: official results and final rankings will be released
2010-11-06T10:25:13  <Migi32> but how many matches you will play etc, no idea
2010-11-06T10:26:00  <p4p4> bah, at the current rate this means ~50 matches for each, that's not much
2010-11-06T10:27:04  <Migi32> they should run a whole bunch of matches, with decreasing K-value over time
2010-11-06T10:27:25  <p4p4> K-value ?
2010-11-06T10:27:49  <Migi32> it's a parameter in the ELO algorithm, the higher K, the more your Elo rating gets adjusted after a match
2010-11-06T10:28:54  <Migi32> so you can run a million matches, if they all have a pretty high K, the end-result will still be somewhat based on luck
2010-11-06T10:29:18  <Migi32> but if you run a million matches with decreasing K-values over time, you should end up with pretty accurate rankings
2010-11-06T10:29:32  <p4p4> oK.
2010-11-06T10:29:40  <Migi32> :)
2010-11-06T10:29:53  *** Prillicy <Prillicy!~chatzilla@97.104.19.221> has joined #aichallenge
2010-11-06T10:30:03  <Prillicy> good morning code gurus
2010-11-06T10:30:10  <Migi32> hi
2010-11-06T10:30:13  <siconize> hi
2010-11-06T10:30:27  <Prillicy> I found the AI challenge entirely by accident, but I figured as part of my learning c# it's something good to do
2010-11-06T10:30:46  <siconize> no, they dont like c# ;D
2010-11-06T10:30:51  <siconize> ;)
2010-11-06T10:30:52  <siconize> joke
2010-11-06T10:30:56  * Prillicy rolls eyes. ;)
2010-11-06T10:31:07  <Migi32> well, you can run your bot on the TCP server, then you get many more games
2010-11-06T10:31:26  <siconize> sure, but it's not the same :P
2010-11-06T10:31:31  <Migi32> more info here: http://72.44.46.68/
2010-11-06T10:31:35  <Migi32> siconize, why not?
2010-11-06T10:31:35  <Prillicy> I uploaded the starter package like it suggests before I build.  The code seems pretty straight forward, so that's not the problem.
2010-11-06T10:33:02  <siconize> Migi32 its not the real contest.. and i dont want to lose against 1000 versions of  bocsimacko ;>
2010-11-06T10:33:10  <Prillicy> my question is much simpler, how do I run the test games on my computer
2010-11-06T10:33:28  <Migi32> siconize, don't worry he only runs one of them at a time :)
2010-11-06T10:33:42  <siconize> :D
2010-11-06T10:33:44  <siconize> okay^^
2010-11-06T10:34:00  <Migi32> Prillicy, you want to run test games against the (pretty easy) example bots?
2010-11-06T10:34:09  <Migi32> or against real bots from real people?
2010-11-06T10:34:19  <Prillicy> I'd like to start with the example bots
2010-11-06T10:34:25  <Prillicy> and work my way up to real people
2010-11-06T10:34:59  <Prillicy> honestly, I can perceive my code getting pretty complex here, so I want to test it on the easy ones, in part to make sure it will /work/ on the real game
2010-11-06T10:35:01  <Migi32> wait let me download the C# starter package and see
2010-11-06T10:36:03  <Migi32> well, I run this command to play against the example bot ProspectorBot:
2010-11-06T10:36:04  <janstaunton> can objective c be used for this?
2010-11-06T10:36:39  <siconize> Prillicy: download the testing application from here: http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=743&start=0 , then compile your c# project to an .exe and use the testing app to play matches versus the example bots
2010-11-06T10:36:46  <Migi32> java -jar tools/PlayGame.jar maps/map43.txt 200 200 log.txt "COMMAND_TO_RUN_YOUR_BOT" "java -jar example_bots/ProspectorBot.jar" | java -jar tools/ShowGame.jar
2010-11-06T10:36:49  <Prillicy> to my understanding, any language can, given someone can write in it
2010-11-06T10:38:12  <Migi32> or use the JBotManage, http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=751, it can also play on TCP
2010-11-06T10:38:21  <Migi32> JBotManager*
2010-11-06T10:38:33  <siconize> but it's strange ;)
2010-11-06T10:38:46  <Prillicy> thanks, that was exactly what I was looking for
2010-11-06T10:38:51  <Prillicy> wait
2010-11-06T10:38:54  <Prillicy> what's this other one?
2010-11-06T10:38:54  <Migi32> it's the only one that lets you watch your TCP games live
2010-11-06T10:39:13  <Migi32> Prillicy, mostly the same. You can choose
2010-11-06T10:39:16  <siconize> yes
2010-11-06T10:39:48  <Prillicy> but the second one I can not only run practice games, but also connect to the tcp games (so it's an all-in-one)?
2010-11-06T10:40:56  <Migi32> yea.
2010-11-06T10:41:23  <Prillicy> if it weren't for the inability of people here to make executables, I think I could grow to like this place
2010-11-06T10:42:08  <Migi32> the first one has an executable. Or is that not what you meant?
2010-11-06T10:43:07  <Prillicy> I saw that
2010-11-06T10:43:18  <Prillicy> but the first one can't do what the second one can...
2010-11-06T10:43:20  <Prillicy> hm
2010-11-06T10:43:28  <siconize> then download both^^
2010-11-06T10:43:33  <Prillicy> well, thanks, I'm going to fiddle for a bit, but I'll be watching this channel
2010-11-06T10:43:34  <Prillicy> I did
2010-11-06T10:43:46  <siconize> ok :)
2010-11-06T10:44:35  <Migi32> btw, is it even possible to make an executable from a java jar file?
2010-11-06T10:45:03  <siconize> no(???)
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2010-11-06T10:46:05  <Prillicy> man up
2010-11-06T10:46:13  <Prillicy> use a real language
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2010-11-06T10:46:17  <Migi32> lol
2010-11-06T10:46:21  <Prillicy> j/k :)
2010-11-06T10:46:33  <Migi32> well, Prillicy it's not hard to make a batch-file that says "java -jar JBotManager.jar"
2010-11-06T10:46:58  <siconize> haha^^
2010-11-06T10:47:13  <Prillicy> I'm not going to be rude to anyone here, but I'm not a big fan of java to begin with, so that's the reason for my complaining
2010-11-06T10:47:36  <siconize> you dont have to "begin with jave"
2010-11-06T10:47:38  <siconize> a+
2010-11-06T10:47:45  <Prillicy> I know
2010-11-06T10:47:53  <siconize> so where is the problem?
2010-11-06T10:48:08  <Prillicy> gimme a minute, I haven't yet built a compiler on this Computer so it's going to take me a minute to write one
2010-11-06T10:48:16  <Prillicy> I can't stand compiling c# from command line
2010-11-06T10:48:44  <Migi32> not many people here are a fan of Java. Neither am I. But if the Java game engine does more than the other one, I will use the Java one.
2010-11-06T10:49:33  <Prillicy> to be more specific, you were quite right, it's not hard to make an executable to do it either
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2010-11-06T10:58:59  <janstaunton> ah
2010-11-06T10:59:00  <janstaunton> malzon
2010-11-06T10:59:03  <janstaunton> We meet again
2010-11-06T10:59:09  <janstaunton> malazon even
2010-11-06T11:01:07  <janstaunton> draw....
2010-11-06T11:01:08  <janstaunton> :o
2010-11-06T11:01:21  <janstaunton> http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=881178
2010-11-06T11:02:45  *** Mekanik <Mekanik!~vov@ppp91-78-208-100.pppoe.mtu-net.ru> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2010-11-06T11:15:26  <contestbot> Top 10 players: bocsimacko(4337), shangas(4204), Raschi(4157), george(4108), rsergio(4101), dmj111(4088), bix0r4ever(4082), Xrillo(4041), GreenTea(4036), Accoun(4033)
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2010-11-06T11:40:29  <Migi32> janstaunton, looks like he had the opportunity there to grab victory multiple times with his 200 planet
2010-11-06T11:41:05  <Migi32> not sure though
2010-11-06T11:41:25  <janstaunton> aye potentially...
2010-11-06T11:41:39  <janstaunton> I think I may have been supressing that tho with attacks on the rear planets
2010-11-06T11:45:27  *** plediii <plediii!~plediii@adsl-99-185-124-47.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net> has quit IRC (Quit: plediii)
2010-11-06T11:47:46  <Migi32> I actually think attacking the rear planets made you vulnerable.
2010-11-06T11:48:16  <Prillicy> agree
2010-11-06T11:52:11  <janstaunton> aye I agree as well
2010-11-06T11:52:19  <janstaunton> Found a bug which is now fixed :)
2010-11-06T11:57:56  <Migi32> I wonder if a group of people start making an open-source bot how good it'd get
2010-11-06T12:00:56  <janstaunton> The agreed architecture of the bot alone would be very interesting
2010-11-06T12:01:10  <janstaunton> Although it would be design by committee I guess :)
2010-11-06T12:03:45  <Migi32> it'd probably depend on the people who start making the bot. Further people would only add things, I guess.
2010-11-06T12:04:02  <Migi32> but I'm sure that that bot would be fine-tuned like crazy.
2010-11-06T12:04:41  <p4p4> imagine 32 piano tuners at work on 1 piano
2010-11-06T12:04:47  <Migi32> lol
2010-11-06T12:04:49  <Migi32> good point
2010-11-06T12:04:49  <raedwulf>   :)
2010-11-06T12:04:50  <janstaunton> My thoughts exactly :)
2010-11-06T12:05:09  <janstaunton> Are you guys researchers or just nerds having a go?
2010-11-06T12:05:21  <raedwulf> < cs nerd
2010-11-06T12:05:23  <janstaunton> (I say just in the lightest possible sense :))
2010-11-06T12:05:59  <Prillicy> just bored
2010-11-06T12:06:43  <Migi32> I'm no researcher either.
2010-11-06T12:07:07  <Migi32> I mean, I research stuff for fun but not officially.
2010-11-06T12:07:57  <raedwulf> meh i need to finish off some notes :S
2010-11-06T12:08:00  <raedwulf> not fun
2010-11-06T12:08:23  <Migi32> yeah once it gets official there is less fun.
2010-11-06T12:08:47  <raedwulf> hehe
2010-11-06T12:10:24  <raedwulf> what version of mono is on the servers again? is it still the old v 2.0?
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2010-11-06T12:15:26  <contestbot> Top 10 players: bocsimacko(4318), shangas(4185), Raschi(4141), george(4089), rsergio(4083), dmj111(4069), bix0r4ever(4064), Xrillo(4023), GreenTea(4017), Accoun(4014)
2010-11-06T12:17:15  <nullkuhl> bocsimacko proves that the best language for ai algorithms is lisp :)
2010-11-06T12:18:01  <janstaunton> hhmmmm....
2010-11-06T12:18:04  <janstaunton> :P
2010-11-06T12:20:58  <janstaunton> What uni you guys from then?
2010-11-06T12:21:02  <janstaunton> I am at york doing a PhD
2010-11-06T12:21:04  <raedwulf> York
2010-11-06T12:21:17  <janstaunton> In kind of machine learning things, but not game related
2010-11-06T12:21:17  <raedwulf> lol :P
2010-11-06T12:21:19  <raedwulf> brb
2010-11-06T12:21:28  <raedwulf> 3rd year - i am
2010-11-06T12:21:34  <janstaunton> ah
2010-11-06T12:21:39  <janstaunton> At york I assume?
2010-11-06T12:22:09  <janstaunton> Is your association on the main server set to york?
2010-11-06T12:22:12  <janstaunton> If so, which username are you?
2010-11-06T12:25:31  <Migi32> I'm from the university of Ghent, CS 3rd year undergrad.
2010-11-06T12:27:07  <nullkuhl> i'm from the german university in cairo, Computer Engineering, final undergrad year.
2010-11-06T12:28:40  <Migi32> nullkuhl, your 5th year then?
2010-11-06T12:29:54  <nullkuhl> yup
2010-11-06T12:30:23  <nullkuhl> engineering bachelor is usually a 4 years program though in europe/usa
2010-11-06T12:30:30  <raedwulf> janstaunton: i signed up as a team with a friend in Manchester, so its set to Other
2010-11-06T12:30:36  <janstaunton> ah
2010-11-06T12:30:39  <janstaunton> fair do's
2010-11-06T12:30:45  <janstaunton> dos
2010-11-06T12:30:47  <janstaunton> even
2010-11-06T12:30:56  <raedwulf> though i need to nudge him into helping me a bit hehe
2010-11-06T12:31:02  <janstaunton> heh
2010-11-06T12:31:17  <nullkuhl> what your current ranking guys in official server?
2010-11-06T12:31:27  <nullkuhl> what's*
2010-11-06T12:31:53  <raedwulf> mine is inconsequential, as its just a test bot with rage-bot style code
2010-11-06T12:32:09  <janstaunton> 118 for me
2010-11-06T12:32:30  <janstaunton> http://ai-contest.com/profile.php?user_id=10531
2010-11-06T12:33:13  <raedwulf> http://www.ai-contest.com/profile.php?user_id=11556
2010-11-06T12:33:37  <Migi32> my bot on the official server is ages old
2010-11-06T12:33:43  <Migi32> rank 500 or something :)
2010-11-06T12:34:24  <nullkuhl> ok, so am the worst lol.
2010-11-06T12:34:40  <raedwulf> :P
2010-11-06T12:34:50  <nullkuhl> http://www.ai-contest.com/profile.php?user_id=8244
2010-11-06T12:34:52  <raedwulf> i've got to put in an offensive strategy in my new bot
2010-11-06T12:37:12  <Migi32> nullkuhl, just skimming through some of your games I think your bot would benefit from the simple rule to never take a neutral if it's close to the enemy than to you
2010-11-06T12:37:20  <Migi32> closer*
2010-11-06T12:37:40  <Migi32> that'd be 300 ELO points right there :)
2010-11-06T12:38:25  <nullkuhl> Migi32: well, i think also attacking enemy planets in 1 big chunk is a bad idea, the attack to a planet can be divided into several fleets, and further the fleet could be sent from various planets.
2010-11-06T12:38:25  <raedwulf> janstaunton: did you do an undergrad degree at york?
2010-11-06T12:38:32  <janstaunton> yup
2010-11-06T12:38:39  <janstaunton> Been here for 7 years now :D
2010-11-06T12:38:48  <raedwulf> oh i recognise you
2010-11-06T12:38:54  <raedwulf> facebook :)
2010-11-06T12:39:03  <janstaunton> heh
2010-11-06T12:39:13  <janstaunton> I am growing those handlebars back atm
2010-11-06T12:39:21  <raedwulf> hehe
2010-11-06T12:39:21  <janstaunton> ah
2010-11-06T12:39:23  <janstaunton> I recognise you too
2010-11-06T12:39:28  <raedwulf> lol
2010-11-06T12:39:41  <janstaunton> Did you do MCP last year?
2010-11-06T12:39:44  <raedwulf> yep
2010-11-06T12:39:49  <raedwulf> well year before last*
2010-11-06T12:39:55  <janstaunton> yeah I demonstrated on that module
2010-11-06T12:39:55  <janstaunton> ah
2010-11-06T12:39:59  <janstaunton> yeah both years I did it
2010-11-06T12:40:05  <janstaunton> Seen you about too
2010-11-06T12:40:06  <raedwulf> ^^
2010-11-06T12:40:08  <raedwulf> yep
2010-11-06T12:40:14  <janstaunton> You doing a 4th year?
2010-11-06T12:40:34  <janstaunton> After this one?
2010-11-06T12:40:40  <raedwulf> had a placement last year, 3rd year now 4th year and then maybe phd
2010-11-06T12:40:41  <janstaunton> hang on...
2010-11-06T12:40:45  <janstaunton> ah I see
2010-11-06T12:40:51  <janstaunton> Where did you work on placement?
2010-11-06T12:41:06  <raedwulf> Thales - Transport and Security section
2010-11-06T12:41:12  <janstaunton> awwww yeah thales
2010-11-06T12:41:16  <janstaunton> I was IBM myself
2010-11-06T12:41:16  <raedwulf> ^^
2010-11-06T12:41:19  <raedwulf> ah ok
2010-11-06T12:41:48  <janstaunton> totally public conversation that is irrelevant to the channel :o
2010-11-06T12:42:04  <raedwulf> haha ^^, yea we've had weird ones in here before
2010-11-06T12:42:13  <nullkuhl> publicly logged as well :P
2010-11-06T12:42:14  <raedwulf> anyways, its all public and we can view the channel logs online :P
2010-11-06T12:42:20  <janstaunton> :)
2010-11-06T12:42:43  <janstaunton> I think my bot needs a serious redesign to cope with the likes of bocsimako and co
2010-11-06T12:43:04  <raedwulf> mine can probably cope with it, just need to actually write the rules in :P
2010-11-06T12:43:13  <raedwulf> which is easier said than done
2010-11-06T12:43:21  <janstaunton> heh
2010-11-06T12:43:34  <janstaunton> I have built a lot of helper procedures that need to be used
2010-11-06T12:43:40  <janstaunton> What language you doing it in?
2010-11-06T12:43:46  <raedwulf> not sure if it would work well against bocksimacko.... though
2010-11-06T12:43:57  <raedwulf> but hopefully top 50 at least, im writing it in C
2010-11-06T12:44:47  <raedwulf> C# and haskell did come to mind - but there was too much trouble with the C# initially and im only just learning haskell
2010-11-06T12:45:12  <janstaunton> Some of haskells features would be nice for future prediction
2010-11-06T12:45:17  <raedwulf> whereas i've been writing C code for ~4-5 years - something im familiar with
2010-11-06T12:45:19  <janstaunton> I just bit the bullet and went with Java
2010-11-06T12:45:29  <raedwulf> ah ok, im unfamiliar with java
2010-11-06T12:45:40  <raedwulf> unfortunately i was in the last Ada year :PO
2010-11-06T12:46:12  <raedwulf> and i've not had any real need to learn java - but ill have to eventually
2010-11-06T12:46:21  <janstaunton> Ada is for pros
2010-11-06T12:46:28  <janstaunton> haha it would be cool if the main server was ada friendly
2010-11-06T12:46:30  <raedwulf> shouldn't be too hard to pick up, since i know c#
2010-11-06T12:46:34  <janstaunton> Although that would be a ball ache
2010-11-06T12:46:41  <janstaunton> yeah java is so easy
2010-11-06T12:46:44  <raedwulf> hehe yea - i shouldn't think it would be too hard for them to support it
2010-11-06T12:46:47  <janstaunton> especially with eclipse and the like around
2010-11-06T12:46:53  <raedwulf> ah ok
2010-11-06T12:48:09  <raedwulf> i doubt there has been a demand for Ada tho hehe
2010-11-06T12:48:26  <nullkuhl> java is almost = C#
2010-11-06T12:48:51  <nullkuhl> it's almost the same library packages as well
2010-11-06T12:49:23  <janstaunton> I need to get to grips with C# eventually
2010-11-06T12:49:32  <raedwulf> i suppose some of c#'s newer features such as linq would be hard to replicate in java
2010-11-06T12:49:47  <janstaunton> C# have lambdas and things?
2010-11-06T12:49:51  <raedwulf> yep
2010-11-06T12:50:33  <raedwulf> they are fairly good, but it does feel a bit tack-on because c# is otherwise a imperative language
2010-11-06T12:51:09  <janstaunton> ah tack is fine as long as it works :D
2010-11-06T12:51:10  <janstaunton> Tuples?
2010-11-06T12:51:26  <raedwulf> ummmm i can't remember - i don't think so
2010-11-06T12:51:42  <raedwulf> if they had them, it was a newer c# 3.x + feature
2010-11-06T12:51:53  <janstaunton> What version does the main server do then?
2010-11-06T12:51:57  <raedwulf> ah its in c# 4.0
2010-11-06T12:52:16  <raedwulf> its using mono 2.0 now i think, which supports c# 3.0
2010-11-06T12:52:26  <raedwulf> but i might be wrong
2010-11-06T12:52:36  <raedwulf> people have reported success with c# 3.0 though
2010-11-06T12:52:48  <nullkuhl> c# 4.0 introducted various new attractive stuff
2010-11-06T12:53:02  <nullkuhl> for instance c# didnt have any library support for arbitrary precision arithmetic
2010-11-06T12:53:09  <nullkuhl> with c# 4.0 it now has
2010-11-06T12:53:32  <raedwulf> im quite impressed that mono 2.8 is really caught up with it all
2010-11-06T12:53:42  <janstaunton> mmmmmm tuples
2010-11-06T12:54:00  <janstaunton> How well does C# play with traditional C stuff?
2010-11-06T12:54:12  <janstaunton> I'm assuming not at all given the runtime
2010-11-06T12:54:25  <raedwulf> there's C interop - thats quite easy
2010-11-06T12:54:34  <raedwulf> give it a DLL and its happy
2010-11-06T12:55:09  <raedwulf> on the cross-platform front, its possible as well but there's some slightly different syntax
2010-11-06T12:55:46  <raedwulf> if you ever did visual basic 6, basically there's a source file with a series of declarations to import particular functions from C libraries
2010-11-06T12:57:01  <raedwulf> there's also other ways, you can use a C++ .NET library to do unmanaged-managed-mixed language wrapper for the C library
2010-11-06T12:57:53  <raedwulf> but thats significantly more difficult and only makes sense if you're wrapping c++ dll/library
2010-11-06T12:58:10  <janstaunton> Looks very attractive
2010-11-06T12:58:19  <janstaunton> Especially since java is being shat on by Oracle atm :)
2010-11-06T12:58:24  <raedwulf> haha
2010-11-06T12:58:34  <janstaunton> And anything that loves Tuples is hella cool
2010-11-06T12:58:45  <janstaunton> So many times have I wanted tuples
2010-11-06T12:59:19  <raedwulf> :D
2010-11-06T12:59:31  <janstaunton> Will do my next project in it
2010-11-06T12:59:37  <raedwulf> neat
2010-11-06T12:59:45  <janstaunton> Although am tempted to restart this challenge in it atm
2010-11-06T13:00:05  <raedwulf> people battle with what the server can compile though atm hehe
2010-11-06T13:02:56  <janstaunton> ah
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2010-11-06T13:03:05  <janstaunton> How does C# fair in terms of speed vs java/
2010-11-06T13:03:08  <janstaunton> ?
2010-11-06T13:03:40  <raedwulf> this is opinionated, but java is probably slightly faster with more memory usage
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2010-11-06T13:04:12  <janstaunton> I see
2010-11-06T13:04:30  <nullkuhl> older C# versions were pretty faster though
2010-11-06T13:04:50  <raedwulf> java has a more aggressive optimiser, but basically caches so much in memory - in terms of start time, i suspect c# wins against java by a lot too
2010-11-06T13:05:11  <raedwulf> especially on windows, because i suspect some of the .net libraries are already present in memory
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2010-11-06T13:08:52  <janstaunton> raedwulf: Are you firing your bot against the tcp server?
2010-11-06T13:08:56  <janstaunton> What username are you?
2010-11-06T13:09:18  <raedwulf> i did one game - it currently doesn't have a proper offensive strategy
2010-11-06T13:09:24  <raedwulf> so its not on atm
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2010-11-06T13:09:31  <raedwulf> if you want i could set you up against my rage bot :P
2010-11-06T13:09:38  <raedwulf> well you can't choose matches though
2010-11-06T13:09:41  <raedwulf> hehe
2010-11-06T13:09:50  <janstaunton> true
2010-11-06T13:09:56  <janstaunton> Mine is constantly looping
2010-11-06T13:10:03  <janstaunton> So chances are you'll get me eventually
2010-11-06T13:10:43  <raedwulf> mmm
2010-11-06T13:11:08  <raedwulf> trying to work out the tcp client again
2010-11-06T13:12:00  <raedwulf> ok thats better
2010-11-06T13:12:09  <raedwulf> lol, found you straight away
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2010-11-06T13:12:24  <janstaunton> ah nice
2010-11-06T13:12:29  <janstaunton> That is an old one tho
2010-11-06T13:12:34  <janstaunton> Not put a new one on my mac mini for ages
2010-11-06T13:12:45  <raedwulf> i lost
2010-11-06T13:12:47  <raedwulf> :P
2010-11-06T13:12:48  <janstaunton> What IDE do you recommend for C#?
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2010-11-06T13:13:10  <nullkuhl> Visual studio, and it's almost not optional :P
2010-11-06T13:13:17  <raedwulf> msvs 2010 is definitely the best, but of the free ones monodevelop if you're on linux and on windows (free) sharp develop
2010-11-06T13:13:31  <janstaunton> Dare I say, what about OS X?!
2010-11-06T13:13:31  <demerzel_> vs2010 is shite
2010-11-06T13:13:36  <demerzel_> i wish i'd stayed with 2008
2010-11-06T13:13:44  <janstaunton> uh oh the can of worms is open
2010-11-06T13:13:45  <raedwulf> yea its a bit buggy still
2010-11-06T13:13:54  <janstaunton> http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=882394
2010-11-06T13:13:59  <demerzel_> they focused WAY too much on gui
2010-11-06T13:14:07  <demerzel_> i mean come on their own window class?
2010-11-06T13:14:46  <raedwulf> janstaunton: i was nicely thwacked
2010-11-06T13:15:05  <janstaunton> truefax, but again, as you say you don't have an offensive strategy
2010-11-06T13:15:17  <demerzel_> haha hi janstaunton
2010-11-06T13:15:21  <demerzel_> did you ever fix your targetting bug
2010-11-06T13:15:26  <contestbot> Top 10 players: bocsimacko(4322), shangas(4192), Raschi(4120), rsergio(4116), george(4102), bix0r4ever(4099), dmj111(4071), Xrillo(4044), Accoun(4018), jambachili(3990)
2010-11-06T13:15:27  <raedwulf> that was using rage bot, because my real bot is more entertaining than effective
2010-11-06T13:15:36  <demerzel_> i remember you had a bug where you sent just enough to get me to 0 for like a week hehe
2010-11-06T13:15:45  <janstaunton> yeah, I choose planets properly now, it's just attacking them that's the problem
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2010-11-06T13:15:56  <janstaunton> yeah haha, I fixed my future state mechanism
2010-11-06T13:16:05  <janstaunton> It actually adds an extra one now
2010-11-06T13:16:06  <raedwulf> janstaunton: http://www.visualizer.naktibalda.lt/520
2010-11-06T13:16:11  <demerzel_> hehe
2010-11-06T13:16:15  <demerzel_> i figured you would
2010-11-06T13:16:19  <raedwulf> thats what my bot does at the moment lol
2010-11-06T13:16:37  <raedwulf> hmmmm wonder if that links still active...
2010-11-06T13:16:53  <janstaunton> Taking it's time connecting...
2010-11-06T13:16:56  <raedwulf> there you go
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2010-11-06T13:18:43  <janstaunton> MonoDevelop looks nice
2010-11-06T13:18:50  <janstaunton> Does it do Eclipse style error checking and ting?
2010-11-06T13:19:36  <demerzel_> is that linux or something
2010-11-06T13:19:43  <janstaunton> What username are you demerzel_ ?
2010-11-06T13:20:00  <janstaunton> http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=882438 mmmmm that makes me happy
2010-11-06T13:20:01  <demerzel_> oh i'm on recode #3 lol still got state bugs to work out
2010-11-06T13:20:06  <demerzel_> i was testBot for a long time
2010-11-06T13:20:46  <janstaunton> ah
2010-11-06T13:20:53  <Migi32> janstaunton, impressive
2010-11-06T13:21:06  <demerzel_> i am starting to think that payoff matrices aren't optimal for neutral acq
2010-11-06T13:21:24  <demerzel_> janstaunton: wow nice you have come a long way
2010-11-06T13:21:31  <janstaunton> yup
2010-11-06T13:21:40  <janstaunton> Still a long way to go tho :D
2010-11-06T13:21:41  <demerzel_> maybe if i had stuck to one .language i'd be able to say the same thing lol
2010-11-06T13:21:58  <janstaunton> I am tempted to switch to C# since my bot is still quite basic feature wise
2010-11-06T13:22:03  <demerzel_> oh god don't
2010-11-06T13:22:09  <janstaunton> But after hearing the horror stories I prolly stick with java
2010-11-06T13:22:12  <demerzel_> that's why i went to C
2010-11-06T13:22:14  <demerzel_> what is it in now
2010-11-06T13:22:15  <Migi32> http://72.44.46.68/getplayer?player=bocsimacko-b0.51 very impressive actually
2010-11-06T13:22:50  <janstaunton> Java for me baby
2010-11-06T13:23:08  <janstaunton> I need to start testing branches like he does too
2010-11-06T13:23:18  <demerzel_> oh hell you wouldn't gain anything by going C#
2010-11-06T13:23:19  <janstaunton> I don't leave one on long enough to get an accurate measure of how good it is
2010-11-06T13:23:20  <demerzel_> they're nearly identical
2010-11-06T13:23:43  <janstaunton> well... mostly for learning purposes, but yeah I just wanna get a good score on this and I know Java best :)
2010-11-06T13:23:58  <raedwulf> janstaunton: i  only used msvs2k8 at my placement, i have'nt really used monodevelop
2010-11-06T13:24:36  <d0ugal> hi
2010-11-06T13:24:40  <raedwulf> hi
2010-11-06T13:24:45  <janstaunton> hello
2010-11-06T13:25:08  <siconize_x> hi
2010-11-06T13:25:14  <demerzel_> well there's no need for vs2010 when you're set at 2.0 (or maybe 3 now?)
2010-11-06T13:25:26  <demerzel_> i'd just get the free version
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2010-11-06T13:25:41  <d0ugal> yeah me too
2010-11-06T13:26:23  <demerzel_> hahaha reading the log
2010-11-06T13:26:24  <demerzel_> 2010-11-06T09:58:36  <bhasker> You LOSE against janstaunton
2010-11-06T13:26:29  <janstaunton> Our uni does MSDNAA stuff
2010-11-06T13:26:40  <demerzel_> you're a heartbreaker lol
2010-11-06T13:26:40  <janstaunton> Free VS2010 for me :D
2010-11-06T13:26:45  <janstaunton> hehe
2010-11-06T13:26:55  <janstaunton> I think their bots are losing cause they assume mine is as clever as theirs
2010-11-06T13:27:02  <demerzel_> lol google can find you the preactivated key for 2010 pro
2010-11-06T13:27:15  <demerzel_> no they justl ook at your elo
2010-11-06T13:27:19  <demerzel_> but you've had that name forever
2010-11-06T13:27:34  <janstaunton> yeah I'll keep using it
2010-11-06T13:27:36  <janstaunton> :D
2010-11-06T13:27:42  <demerzel_> impressive that you're positive now in fact
2010-11-06T13:28:21  <janstaunton> I'll be more positive when I finish this coordinated attacking code
2010-11-06T13:28:24  <janstaunton> I hope
2010-11-06T13:28:33  <demerzel_> we have 08 at work and they use the hell out of vs
2010-11-06T13:28:42  <demerzel_> i'd never seen so many test/db test/etc files i didnt' even know what they were
2010-11-06T13:29:24  <demerzel_> i still dont' really know how to set up a unit test - i just program in a switch lol
2010-11-06T13:30:26  <demerzel_> i think i'm gonna throw my c# bot code up on googlecode
2010-11-06T13:30:40  <demerzel_> it's all xmldoc'd and everything lol
2010-11-06T13:32:04  <siconize_x> how many line of code your c# bot has?
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2010-11-06T13:32:57  <Migi32> hey sorry to interrupt, but are the boost libraries installed on the main serve?
2010-11-06T13:33:00  <Migi32> server*
2010-11-06T13:33:06  <Migi32> like, can I use boost's foreach?
2010-11-06T13:34:22  <demerzel_> siconize_x i'm not sure but it's extra long cuz of the xmldoc
2010-11-06T13:34:26  <siconize_x> i remeber this quesiton from the forum :P
2010-11-06T13:35:18  <siconize_x> http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=745&p=4688&hilit=boost#p4688
2010-11-06T13:35:35  <siconize_x> if that is what you are talking about
2010-11-06T13:36:27  * janstaunton hides this window so he can code without distracting himself :))
2010-11-06T13:36:35  <janstaunton> see you guys later
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2010-11-06T13:41:23  <demerzel_> you can generally find the plain header files for boost
2010-11-06T13:41:29  <demerzel_> and just add those to the package
2010-11-06T13:42:53  <demerzel_> where the hell is the initial upload for googlecode this is dumb
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2010-11-06T13:58:28  <demerzel_> there: http://www.ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1066
2010-11-06T13:58:42  <demerzel_> it's nothing extreme but at least it has persistent state and future predictions built in
2010-11-06T14:01:42  <Migi32> is there a list somewhere of which libraries are installed on the main server?
2010-11-06T14:03:58  <demerzel_> for what c++?
2010-11-06T14:04:15  <Migi32> yes
2010-11-06T14:04:32  <Migi32> or well, specifically if the boost headers are there
2010-11-06T14:04:52  <demerzel_> http://packages.debian.org/lenny/libboost-dev
2010-11-06T14:05:23  <Migi32> yea, that one
2010-11-06T14:05:41  <demerzel_> yea that's what he said he installed
2010-11-06T14:05:46  <demerzel_> janzert that is
2010-11-06T14:06:10  <Migi32> ah, nice :D
2010-11-06T14:09:27  <Migi32> also, ragebot is not on TCP anymore?
2010-11-06T14:09:46  <Migi32> maybe I'll run RageBot for a while
2010-11-06T14:10:01  <Migi32> he teaches good lessons :)
2010-11-06T14:15:28  <contestbot> Top 10 players: bocsimacko(4319), shangas(4190), Raschi(4118), rsergio(4113), george(4099), bix0r4ever(4099), dmj111(4069), Xrillo(4038), Accoun(4023), jambachili(3987)
2010-11-06T14:19:24  <Frontier> this map is amazing: http://72.44.46.68/canvas?game_id=881844
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2010-11-06T14:21:50  <demerzel_> if by amazing you mean 'guaranteed to have a 200 turn do-nothing draw' then yes
2010-11-06T14:22:23  <siconize> i know this map
2010-11-06T14:22:25  <siconize> and i hate it
2010-11-06T14:22:25  <siconize> http://www.ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=424&start=130
2010-11-06T14:22:43  <siconize> distance between the start planets is < 1
2010-11-06T14:24:11  <demerzel_> well i hope somebody uses my code
2010-11-06T14:24:22  <demerzel_> i think its pretty approachable with everything xml doc'd
2010-11-06T14:24:34  <demerzel_> def better than the starter pack at least haha
2010-11-06T14:26:26  <McLeopold> amstan: how is your height map code going?
2010-11-06T14:27:27  <Migi32> siconize, imagine that the neutral between those planets had 3 ships, there'd be a bunch of invisible battle :)
2010-11-06T14:27:31  <Migi32> battles*
2010-11-06T14:29:14  <demerzel_> haha oh shit i forgot about 0
2010-11-06T14:29:22  <demerzel_> what are the stats
2010-11-06T14:31:21  <Migi32> demerzel_, how good us that bot?
2010-11-06T14:32:02  <demerzel_> the one i shared?  it's hovering aroudn 400 it peaked at 150
2010-11-06T14:32:11  <demerzel_> has an obvious bug where it doesn't launch until all incoming is done
2010-11-06T14:32:36  <Migi32> you know that a lot of people were against the open-sourcing of some other C# bot
2010-11-06T14:32:37  <demerzel_> it's a recode of my original C# bot which peaked at 100ish - not complete
2010-11-06T14:32:50  <demerzel_> yea i know and i dont care i don't understand that
2010-11-06T14:33:27  <demerzel_> the targetting logic for the one i shared is extremely simple: if (cost/value) > 0 && cost/value > (cost/value other target)
2010-11-06T14:33:47  <demerzel_> err >1
2010-11-06T14:34:15  <Migi32> I think you should maybe remove all actual bot logic and have it do nothing, only have stuff like future planet state prediction and the TCP stuff and all that
2010-11-06T14:34:24  <demerzel_> why
2010-11-06T14:34:38  <demerzel_> anybody in here could easily destroy it
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2010-11-06T14:34:46  <demerzel_> and probably has lol
2010-11-06T14:35:35  <Migi32> the logic against the other one was that people should come up with their own bot logic, not use that of others.
2010-11-06T14:36:08  <demerzel_> i'm pretty sure anybody who's taken economic 101 can come up with a cost effectiveness ratio
2010-11-06T14:36:18  <demerzel_> that's all it is
2010-11-06T14:36:26  <siconize> but people can upload your bot...
2010-11-06T14:37:04  <demerzel_> the logic argument doesn't make sense to me
2010-11-06T14:37:14  <demerzel_> what would make sense is 'people who can't code state correctly shouldn't benefit'
2010-11-06T14:37:24  <demerzel_> but i spent enough time on state i am sympathetic to new coders
2010-11-06T14:37:41  <siconize> 'people who can't code or do not want to spend much time will upload your bot'
2010-11-06T14:37:48  <Migi32> yea but that's another thing: it funnels everyone into using the same kind of logic
2010-11-06T14:37:50  <demerzel_> 'and lose'
2010-11-06T14:38:04  <siconize> rank 400 != lose ;)
2010-11-06T14:38:33  <siconize> 400 = part of the best 10%
2010-11-06T14:38:37  <demerzel_> i really don't see the argument honestly - that bot is super easy to beat with any kind of strategy - if people just upload that unchanged it will lose
2010-11-06T14:39:18  <siconize> you said it is on rank 400?!
2010-11-06T14:39:23  <demerzel_> yea it is
2010-11-06T14:39:29  <demerzel_> somewhere around there anyway
2010-11-06T14:39:51  <demerzel_> it's this one: http://www.ai-contest.com/profile.php?user_id=9166 -- although i think i tweaked that one a bit
2010-11-06T14:39:53  <Migi32> demerzel_, at least some % of the people that will use that bot will just keep making small changes to improve on it, which as I said "funnels" the amount of creativity of people in one direction
2010-11-06T14:40:02  <demerzel_> same base code anyawy
2010-11-06T14:42:34  <Migi32> and those kinds of people aren't necessarily stupid. If they had started with neural networks and kept improving upon that they could gain some insight and win the contest
2010-11-06T14:42:37  <siconize> when someone posted kanpsack01 as solution for turnj-1-expansion everyone takes it so soon we will see you bot in 1000 variations
2010-11-06T14:42:48  <demerzel_> Migi32: as opposed to what?  making small changes to the starter pack?  the bar is so high now you'd have to practically recode it from scratch to have a real chance
2010-11-06T14:44:11  <Migi32> demerzel_, no that's why I say you should definitely share the TCP code and future planet state prediction code etc, every bot - neural network or ratio or minimax - all use that
2010-11-06T14:44:28  <demerzel_> haha if they have neural networks i'm pretty sure my old code isn't going to do jack for them
2010-11-06T14:46:12  <Migi32> and if they really want to win they will have to recode all of the actual bot logic anyway
2010-11-06T14:46:50  <demerzel_> i see what you're saying and i would agree with you if it did anything other than basic arithmetic calculations
2010-11-06T14:47:10  <Migi32> you say anyone can come up with a cost effectiveness ratio - well let them
2010-11-06T14:47:12  <demerzel_> but it doesn't so as far as i'm concerned it's not a threat to the 'state of the contest' or whatever
2010-11-06T14:48:12  <siconize> ..
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2010-11-06T14:50:46  <Migi32> I know you have good intentions with this, demerzel_, but quoting RebelXT "releasing ready-to-go source code has potential to cause more harm than good."
2010-11-06T14:52:32  <Migi32> releasing utility code: great. releasing bot logic: not pure evil but more bad than good
2010-11-06T14:53:13  <demerzel_> i'm sorry but i really don't understand the vehement disapproval - there is one line that says if cost effectivness good then go
2010-11-06T14:53:20  <demerzel_> i don't see how removing that line would change anything
2010-11-06T14:54:39  <demerzel_> that's why i released it honestly - the logic is one line lol
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2010-11-06T14:59:28  <Migi32> I don't really agree with that, there's BasicDefense() and BasicDistribution(), 2 rather independent things that are both bot logic and not utility code
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2010-11-06T15:04:06  <Migi32> also, line 31-54 of DBInjector.cs is something that's not really something new programmers should learn from ;)
2010-11-06T15:04:09  <demerzel_> i did take my test stuff out since it had some advanced logic haha
2010-11-06T15:04:13  <Migi32> no offense, the rest of the code looks good
2010-11-06T15:04:47  <demerzel_> it's more efficient than a loop
2010-11-06T15:05:14  <Migi32> yea by like 0.01%
2010-11-06T15:05:15  <demerzel_> db stuff is a hack anyway i never finished it
2010-11-06T15:05:29  <demerzel_> it works iirc but was just a slop together bit
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2010-11-06T15:05:57  <demerzel_> i doubt anyone will use it since they don't have my database handy it's just a template haha
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2010-11-06T15:06:41  <Migi32> oh so your bot doesn't use it? Then why did you include it in the zip file?
2010-11-06T15:07:11  <demerzel_> because it can be used
2010-11-06T15:07:19  <demerzel_> both tcp and db just hook into console.in/out
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2010-11-06T15:08:09  <Migi32> ah ok
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2010-11-06T15:10:54  <Migi32> well you know my opinion: I think you shouldn't put the bot code out there, only utility code (like TCPInjector and DBInjector etc), but I don't care enough to keep arguing, I'll just wait and see what the forumer's reactions are
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2010-11-06T15:11:45  <demerzel_> i doubt many will look at it the forums are pretty slow
2010-11-06T15:12:09  <demerzel_> actually that bot is below my current official entry because it's before i put in the future launches etc
2010-11-06T15:12:19  <demerzel_> so even less of a threat lol
2010-11-06T15:14:02  <demerzel_> now if i could only get my c bot to be as stable
2010-11-06T15:14:24  <lavalamp_> someone released a top 50 bot and took a lot of flack for it
2010-11-06T15:14:28  <lavalamp_> he took it down
2010-11-06T15:15:00  <siconize> ...he took it down before i could have a look on i t :(
2010-11-06T15:15:00  <siconize> ;)
2010-11-06T15:15:05  <lavalamp_> Personally I think getting the state tracking right is a large part of the competition
2010-11-06T15:15:18  <demerzel_> it's not nearly top 50 material
2010-11-06T15:15:22  <demerzel_> maybe 2 months ago
2010-11-06T15:15:29  <contestbot> Top 10 players: bocsimacko(4322), shangas(4194), Raschi(4124), rsergio(4119), george(4103), bix0r4ever(4102), dmj111(4073), Xrillo(4046), Accoun(4031), jimrogerz(4003)
2010-11-06T15:15:35  <demerzel_> lavalamp_: i agree on the state calc
2010-11-06T15:15:43  <lavalamp_> I don't really care (my current sucky bot is 200's) but I understand why people wouldn't want that out until after the comp is over
2010-11-06T15:16:24  <demerzel_> i am pretty sure state still has some bugs too - the framework is what it offers more than a turnkey bot
2010-11-06T15:16:34  <lavalamp_> haha
2010-11-06T15:17:47  <demerzel_> i mean they're the insidious 'if situation x, y, and z all occur simultaneously' kind of bugs nothing overt
2010-11-06T15:18:02  <demerzel_> i stopped using it before i could thoroughly test it
2010-11-06T15:21:27  <lavalamp_> my state tracking had a lot of problems I didn't realize-- it's a good thing I paused my minimax bot to make a simpler one with the same framework
2010-11-06T15:21:51  <lavalamp_> I think even the simple bot might be awesome when I'm done
2010-11-06T15:21:53  <demerzel_> lavalamp_: yea i am spending ungodly amounts of time testing state
2010-11-06T15:22:09  <lavalamp_> it's kinda depressing how many problems it had >.<
2010-11-06T15:22:32  <lavalamp_> not just bugs but glaring oversights
2010-11-06T15:22:47  <demerzel_> i know the feeling
2010-11-06T15:23:20  <lavalamp_> though I think mine is more ambitious than most-- I keep track of "newly availible ships" at each point so my orders will never conflict
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2010-11-06T15:29:11  <demerzel_> i do that - keep supply vs planet ships separate so i can check against ships to make sure supply is accurate
2010-11-06T15:30:40  <lavalamp_> mine is soooo complicated.... each order includes an array of how many ships it reserves on each turn...
2010-11-06T15:33:57  <demerzel_> i have some serious ass problems with fleet launching atm i'm trying to track down
2010-11-06T15:34:03  <demerzel_> yea i have that too haha
2010-11-06T15:34:19  <demerzel_> as an added bonus it recalcs on every launch
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2010-11-06T15:35:20  <Prillicy> sorry, to leave, but I had to eat
2010-11-06T15:35:35  <Prillicy> I'm having trouble, getting errors, I think I'm not compiling corectly
2010-11-06T15:36:46  <Prillicy> how are you supposed to compile the bot so that it can be used in the test games?
2010-11-06T15:36:55  <lavalamp_> demerzel_: apparantly we think very much alike...
2010-11-06T15:37:07  <lavalamp_> Prillicy: language?
2010-11-06T15:37:13  <Prillicy> c#
2010-11-06T15:37:22  <Prillicy> I'm still learing
2010-11-06T15:37:32  <lavalamp_> sorry don't know it, maybe demerzel_ can tell you...
2010-11-06T15:38:56  <siconize> Prillicy just compile it to .exe?
2010-11-06T15:39:25  <Prillicy> right, can't compile mybot.cs to exe 'cause it doesn't have references to the right functions
2010-11-06T15:39:53  <siconize> you added all 4 *.cs from the starter package to a c# project?
2010-11-06T15:40:13  <Prillicy> siconize: I don't use, nor have Visual Studio, so please don't talk like that
2010-11-06T15:40:22  <siconize> :D
2010-11-06T15:40:24  <siconize> ah sorry
2010-11-06T15:40:27  <siconize> :P
2010-11-06T15:40:50  <Prillicy> but I think I know what you mean
2010-11-06T15:40:58  <siconize> ok ;)
2010-11-06T15:41:04  <Prillicy> I compiled planet and fleet to dlls
2010-11-06T15:41:17  <Prillicy> and compiled planetwars.cs to a dll referencing planet and fleet
2010-11-06T15:41:27  <Prillicy> and then compiled mybot.cs referencing all 3 dlls
2010-11-06T15:41:32  <Prillicy> and it made an exe
2010-11-06T15:41:39  <demerzel_> i really have no idea - i wouldn't use C# unless i had vs lol
2010-11-06T15:41:41  <Prillicy> but it doesn't work
2010-11-06T15:41:54  <Prillicy> I don't have any option
2010-11-06T15:41:58  <siconize> sounds very specific^^
2010-11-06T15:42:03  <demerzel_> what are you compiling it with
2010-11-06T15:42:18  <Prillicy> csc.exe
2010-11-06T15:42:23  <Prillicy> .net framework
2010-11-06T15:42:51  <demerzel_> what is the error you get when you just try to csc *.cs
2010-11-06T15:43:12  <Prillicy> the class planetwars does not exist
2010-11-06T15:43:21  <demerzel_> hmm but it does
2010-11-06T15:43:27  <Prillicy> not in mybot.cs
2010-11-06T15:43:38  <demerzel_> are you trying to csc mybot.cs
2010-11-06T15:43:42  <demerzel_> you have to *.cs
2010-11-06T15:43:44  <Prillicy> oh, I see
2010-11-06T15:43:50  <Prillicy> never thought of that.. thanks
2010-11-06T15:44:50  <janzert> just as a clarification about the boost library mentioned earlier
2010-11-06T15:45:08  <janzert> I know the boost package is installed on the server but I don't see that the compiler is linking it in
2010-11-06T15:45:21  <janzert> so if someone wants to test it and report back that would be great
2010-11-06T15:45:46  <Prillicy> told you I was compiling it wrong
2010-11-06T15:47:13  <demerzel_> janzert: -I
2010-11-06T15:47:39  <demerzel_> janzert: so for example if you put them in boost it's gcc <whatever> -Iboost
2010-11-06T15:47:59  <demerzel_> relative path no space
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2010-11-06T15:48:18  <demerzel_> so if it's in c:\compiler and the stuff is in c:\boost then it's -I../boost
2010-11-06T15:49:14  <lavalamp_> demerzel_, I think he's talking about linking not including header files
2010-11-06T15:49:23  <demerzel_> either that or have them in the compiler dir
2010-11-06T15:49:52  <demerzel_> why wouldn't it link if it's in the dir or include path?
2010-11-06T15:50:04  <demerzel_> maybe they're named diff
2010-11-06T15:51:29  <lavalamp_> compiled libs are usually in a different place than the header files I think
2010-11-06T15:51:53  <lavalamp_> plus linker has its own option (I don't know gcc well enough to say what it is)
2010-11-06T15:53:05  <demerzel_> well libs are the same really - just -L instead of -I
2010-11-06T15:53:14  <demerzel_> iirc
2010-11-06T15:53:20  <lavalamp_> ok that sounds plausible
2010-11-06T15:55:06  <demerzel_> i need to stop spamming up irc and work on my state code lol
2010-11-06T15:55:13  <demerzel_> too much coffee getting distracted
2010-11-06T15:56:17  <Prillicy> anyone here every tried using the c# starter package? i keep getting "cannot open fleet.cs file is corrupt"
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2010-11-06T16:05:04  <Prillicy> the planetwarrior game tester is too big for my screen resolution, so how do I run bot manager again?
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2010-11-06T16:15:29  <contestbot> Top 10 players: bocsimacko(4356), shangas(4238), Raschi(4150), george(4136), rsergio(4099), dmj111(4096), bix0r4ever(4064), Xrillo(4053), Accoun(4042), felixcoto(4024)
2010-11-06T16:15:37  <demerzel_> i would redownload it
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2010-11-06T16:36:07  <Prillicy> so I can't even run the regular visualizer for some reason....'cause I don't have access to the java command
2010-11-06T16:37:28  <siconize_> :/
2010-11-06T16:37:55  <siconize_> no vs, low resolution, no java.. o0 :p
2010-11-06T16:39:24  <Prillicy> no vs?
2010-11-06T16:39:26  <Prillicy> oh,
2010-11-06T16:39:27  <Prillicy> visual studio
2010-11-06T16:39:46  <siconize_> yeah
2010-11-06T16:39:47  <Prillicy> yes, I'm working on my netbook at the moment, but I'm learning C# without Vs 'cause I don't have VS at work and I'm not allowed to download it
2010-11-06T16:40:04  <Prillicy> and I don't have java on my netbook I don't think
2010-11-06T16:40:15  <siconize_> and you cannot install it?
2010-11-06T16:40:20  <Prillicy> the exe one works, but I can't see parts of the map
2010-11-06T16:40:23  <Prillicy> I can
2010-11-06T16:40:32  <Prillicy> I have it at work, not that it matters there
2010-11-06T16:40:50  <Prillicy> could I watch the game in console?
2010-11-06T16:40:56  <Prillicy> it'd be easier I think
2010-11-06T16:40:58  <Prillicy> without a visualizer
2010-11-06T16:41:04  <Prillicy> maybe not
2010-11-06T16:41:07  * Prillicy thinks.
2010-11-06T16:41:07  <siconize_> only some numbers?^^
2010-11-06T16:41:25  <Prillicy> so I need to install java for the java command to work?
2010-11-06T16:41:35  <Prillicy> don't you think that should be in the explanation of how to run the thing?
2010-11-06T16:41:50  <siconize_> it should be
2010-11-06T16:41:54  <Prillicy> it's not
2010-11-06T16:41:57  <siconize_> i had troubles too when i started
2010-11-06T16:42:16  * Prillicy is frustrated
2010-11-06T16:42:19  <siconize_> :P
2010-11-06T16:42:46  <Prillicy> I would really prefer not to install java
2010-11-06T16:42:55  <Prillicy> it's not something I want on my computer
2010-11-06T16:42:57  <Prillicy> I have portable java
2010-11-06T16:43:10  <Prillicy> could I call the java command from the portable java directory?
2010-11-06T16:43:32  <siconize_> i dont know; i ahve java installed. i like it the easy way :x
2010-11-06T16:43:52  <Prillicy> I think the easy way was out the second my work refused to give me VS
2010-11-06T16:44:53  <siconize_> become a stundent and get it for free @ msdnaa :D
2010-11-06T16:44:57  <siconize_> student*
2010-11-06T16:45:38  <Prillicy> hah, it worked with portable java
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2010-11-06T16:45:48  <Prillicy> stil can't have it at work, whether I have it at home or not
2010-11-06T16:45:51  <siconize_> fine
2010-11-06T16:46:00  <siconize_> ok thats not fine
2010-11-06T16:46:03  <siconize_> but fine it works with java
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2010-11-06T16:48:16  <Prillicy> heh, got the standard visualizer to work, now to get the good one with irc capability to run
2010-11-06T16:50:07  <siconize_> i hope this will be small enough for your screen resouliton. even me has problems with it and i have a width of 1280 px
2010-11-06T16:50:21  <Prillicy> where's that link to the jbot manager
2010-11-06T16:50:26  <Prillicy> so I know what commands it requires
2010-11-06T16:50:37  <Prillicy> 1024x600
2010-11-06T16:50:45  <Prillicy> 8.9in netbook
2010-11-06T16:55:43  <lavalamp_> eeek my batch of huge changes compiled
2010-11-06T16:55:51  * lavalamp_ scared to hit run
2010-11-06T16:55:55  <Migi32> :)
2010-11-06T16:56:15  * raedwulf hears an explosion in the distance...
2010-11-06T16:56:24  <raedwulf> it must be lavalamp_ 's code
2010-11-06T16:56:31  * lavalamp_ ducks
2010-11-06T16:56:39  <lavalamp_> blew up on turn 0
2010-11-06T16:56:44  <raedwulf> haha
2010-11-06T16:56:48  <Migi32> lol
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2010-11-06T17:03:20  <Prillicy> anyone have the link to jbot manager
2010-11-06T17:03:42  <TheMacca> http://www.mabs.at/ewing/JBotManager.jar
2010-11-06T17:04:03  <TheMacca> from http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=751
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2010-11-06T17:08:32  <lavalamp_> how do you make contestbot remember something? jbotmanager should be added
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2010-11-06T17:10:49  <Prillicy> I can't select any bots in jbotmanager
2010-11-06T17:10:58  <TheMacca> Add them
2010-11-06T17:11:04  <TheMacca> Bots tab, far right
2010-11-06T17:12:14  <Prillicy> excellent, worked great, thanks
2010-11-06T17:12:17  <Prillicy> now to start on my own
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2010-11-06T17:15:31  <contestbot> Top 10 players: bocsimacko(4335), shangas(4213), Raschi(4125), george(4112), rsergio(4079), dmj111(4077), bix0r4ever(4054), Xrillo(4039), Accoun(4021), jimrogerz(4011)
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2010-11-06T17:16:59  <siconize_> lavalamp_ learn <key> as <value> : add a new factoid
2010-11-06T17:17:03  <siconize_> http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=436
2010-11-06T17:17:24  <lavalamp_> thanks
2010-11-06T17:17:27  <siconize_> np
2010-11-06T17:17:41  <lavalamp_> contestbot: learn jbotmanager as http://www.mabs.at/ewing/JBotManager.jar
2010-11-06T17:17:41  <contestbot> lavalamp_: Yes master!
2010-11-06T17:17:51  <lavalamp_> contestbot: learn jbotman as http://www.mabs.at/ewing/JBotManager.jar
2010-11-06T17:17:51  <contestbot> lavalamp_: OK
2010-11-06T17:17:59  <lavalamp_> cool
2010-11-06T17:18:10  <Prillicy> do I have to restart the program  to get a new test started?
2010-11-06T17:18:23  <lavalamp_> just hit the stop button?
2010-11-06T17:18:31  <Prillicy> doesn't seem to work
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2010-11-06T17:18:37  <lavalamp_> hm
2010-11-06T17:18:49  <lavalamp_> dunno-- you shouldn't have to restart it
2010-11-06T17:19:49  <lavalamp_> actually I'm not sure if that works right on the tcp tab
2010-11-06T17:20:00  <siconize_> Prillicy i hope you remember that i recommend you to use the other tool, "planet warrios"
2010-11-06T17:20:15  <Prillicy> why? it doesn't fit on my screen
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2010-11-06T17:21:00  <siconize_> yes but the java tool seems to have some bugs
2010-11-06T17:21:22  <Prillicy> a bit
2010-11-06T17:21:24  <siconize_> and man, 1024x600, really, thats too msall :D
2010-11-06T17:21:29  <siconize_> small*
2010-11-06T17:21:34  <Prillicy> netbooks are that way
2010-11-06T17:21:50  <TheMacca> Use the java one for TCP,  PlanterWarrior for local
2010-11-06T17:22:14  <Prillicy> can't see hte games in planetwarrior
2010-11-06T17:22:25  <Prillicy> if it adjusted to screen res or added scrollbars it'd be fine
2010-11-06T17:22:37  <Prillicy> I guess I'll just run it in the standard runner
2010-11-06T17:22:57  <siconize_> >.<
2010-11-06T17:23:16  <Prillicy> the ugly visualizer
2010-11-06T17:23:26  <Prillicy> build myself a little program to run it
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2010-11-06T18:15:31  <contestbot> Top 10 players: bocsimacko(4344), shangas(4221), Raschi(4135), george(4113), rsergio(4092), dmj111(4088), bix0r4ever(4063), Xrillo(4046), asavis(4045), Accoun(4033)
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2010-11-06T19:15:31  <contestbot> Top 10 players: bocsimacko(4365), shangas(4213), Raschi(4176), rsergio(4153), george(4137), dmj111(4100), bix0r4ever(4056), Xrillo(4055), felixcoto(4040), Accoun(4038)
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2010-11-06T19:23:59  <Migi32> quiet here...
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2010-11-06T19:36:04  <Prillicy> how can I run the visualizer without using relative directories?
2010-11-06T19:36:24  <Prillicy> can I use c:\blah instead of tools/example_bots ?
2010-11-06T19:36:33  <McLeopold> yes
2010-11-06T19:36:38  <Prillicy> k, thanks
2010-11-06T19:36:49  <McLeopold> you can always put a full path in the java command line
2010-11-06T19:37:03  <Prillicy> now, some of it's in ""
2010-11-06T19:37:09  <Prillicy> can I still put my directories in ""?
2010-11-06T19:37:14  <Prillicy> or will that cause a problem?
2010-11-06T19:37:21  <McLeopold> what is ""?
2010-11-06T19:37:28  <McLeopold> the root?
2010-11-06T19:37:58  <McLeopold> use quotes if you path has a space
2010-11-06T19:38:17  <Prillicy> right, but part of the args has "" in it
2010-11-06T19:38:18  <Migi32> Prillicy, yes you can
2010-11-06T19:38:33  <Migi32> the "" isn't necessary I think
2010-11-06T19:38:33  <Prillicy> java -jar tools/PlayGame.jar maps/map7.txt 1000 1000 log.txt "java -jar example_bots/RandomBot.jar" "java -jar example_bots/DualBot.jar" | java -jar tools/ShowGame.jar
2010-11-06T19:38:39  <Prillicy> it isn't?
2010-11-06T19:38:48  <Migi32> oh, yes, it is necessary here
2010-11-06T19:38:58  <Migi32> s/yes/no
2010-11-06T19:39:27  <Prillicy> so how can I get my directories with spaces in there?
2010-11-06T19:39:55  <Migi32> replace "java -jar example_bots/RandomBot.jar" with the command to run your bot
2010-11-06T19:40:05  <Migi32> also with "" if that command has spaces in it
2010-11-06T19:40:19  <Prillicy> right, except running the other bots
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2010-11-06T19:42:08  <Prillicy> I am talking about java -jar these bots which I have to call from their actual directory
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2010-11-06T19:42:23  <Prillicy> would /c: work?
2010-11-06T19:42:35  <Prillicy> in php/javascript / is how you get root
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2010-11-06T19:44:51  <Prillicy> did I lose ya?
2010-11-06T19:44:57  <McLeopold> no yet
2010-11-06T19:44:58  <Prillicy> I'm just trying to run the visualizer against these other bots
2010-11-06T19:45:11  <Prillicy> and I don't want to command line it
2010-11-06T19:45:20  <Prillicy> so I've built a c# program to do it
2010-11-06T19:46:28  <McLeopold> are you in windows?
2010-11-06T19:46:45  <Prillicy> no, I build for .NET on my apple
2010-11-06T19:46:50  <Prillicy> ;)
2010-11-06T19:46:51  <Prillicy> j/k
2010-11-06T19:47:38  <Migi32> oh Prillicy sorry you should've written my name, then it gives a beep here and you instantly get my attention again. For windows, try this: "chdir C:/your_dir/; command_to_run_your_bot"
2010-11-06T19:47:54  * Prillicy facepalms
2010-11-06T19:48:24  <Prillicy> I built this as a c# process to run the visualizer with arguments
2010-11-06T19:48:43  <Prillicy> the arguments must then have an actual, not relative directory
2010-11-06T19:48:43  <McLeopold> Migi32: do you have anymore cool bots like your vortex one?
2010-11-06T19:49:14  <Migi32> McLeopold, nope. I'm working on a new one with an ending dance though :)
2010-11-06T19:49:19  <Migi32> a victory dance :)
2010-11-06T19:49:27  <McLeopold> Prillicy: either will work, but for relative, you need to know what it is relative to.
2010-11-06T19:49:34  <Migi32> are you still making new funky bots?
2010-11-06T19:49:42  <Prillicy> thus, I need to do so with an actual directory
2010-11-06T19:49:50  <Prillicy> but an actual has spaces and needs to be in ""
2010-11-06T19:49:57  <Prillicy> but since the bots are java files, I already need ""
2010-11-06T19:49:59  <McLeopold> Migi32: not yet.  I'm working on my framework.
2010-11-06T19:50:00  <Prillicy> java -jar tools/PlayGame.jar maps/map7.txt 1000 1000 log.txt "java -jar example_bots/RandomBot.jar" "java -jar example_bots/DualBot.jar" | java -jar tools/ShowGame.jar
2010-11-06T19:50:02  <Prillicy> as you can se
2010-11-06T19:50:27  <McLeopold> so, you need nested quotes.
2010-11-06T19:50:40  <McLeopold> I think escaping or doubling might work.
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2010-11-06T19:50:43  <Prillicy> so when going to "c:\users\xxxx\desktop\google ai\csharp_starter_package\example_bots\RandomBot.jar" I end up with double quotes
2010-11-06T19:51:11  <Prillicy> you think they could be escaped? heck, worth a shot
2010-11-06T19:51:28  <Migi32> I've seen escaped spaces before
2010-11-06T19:51:37  <Migi32> don't know if it was on windows or on linux
2010-11-06T19:51:42  <McLeopold> linux
2010-11-06T19:51:51  <Migi32> k
2010-11-06T19:52:24  <Prillicy> I was going to see if the command prompt would let me escape the ""
2010-11-06T19:53:18  <Prillicy> hah, works!
2010-11-06T19:53:20  <Prillicy> huzzah
2010-11-06T19:53:24  <Migi32> ok
2010-11-06T19:53:27  <Migi32> :)
2010-11-06T19:53:34  <Prillicy> you can escape
2010-11-06T19:53:37  <Prillicy> "" in arguments
2010-11-06T19:53:40  <Prillicy> wierd, but it works
2010-11-06T19:54:01  <McLeopold> doubling works for me
2010-11-06T19:57:03  <Migi32> got to go
2010-11-06T19:57:06  <Migi32> night
2010-11-06T19:57:25  <Migi32> good luck with your framework, McLeopold :)
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2010-11-06T20:07:25  <Prillicy> double what?
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2010-11-06T20:12:58  <demerzel_> Migi32: you are vortex?
2010-11-06T20:13:05  <demerzel_> just read that lol
2010-11-06T20:13:18  <demerzel_> what was the idea behind that bot
2010-11-06T20:15:32  <contestbot> Top 10 players: bocsimacko(4340), shangas(4201), Raschi(4185), rsergio(4146), george(4112), dmj111(4075), bix0r4ever(4070), Xrillo(4052), sin_sun(4038), Accoun(4023)
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2010-11-06T20:18:02  <Prillicy> hmm, now my visualizer exe doesn't run anything and doesn't give any output (no errors or anything)
2010-11-06T20:18:29  <demerzel_> it's almost like your choice of os/platform/language/ide are making things difficult
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2010-11-06T20:21:04  <Prillicy> no, my inexperience I think is the problem
2010-11-06T20:22:04  <Prillicy> it runs if I do it by hand, which means I'm doing something wrong ;)
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2010-11-06T20:26:36  <siconize_> good night and bye :)
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2010-11-06T21:08:59  <Prillicy> I'm getting the error "Failed to start client: |"
2010-11-06T21:09:45  <Prillicy> I keep thinking there's a typo, but I don't see it, I maay also be too close to the problem
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2010-11-06T21:15:32  <contestbot> Top 10 players: bocsimacko(4329), shangas(4187), Raschi(4163), rsergio(4085), bix0r4ever(4082), george(4078), dmj111(4062), Xrillo(4042), sin_sun(4023), GreenTea(4013)
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2010-11-06T21:22:17  <lavalamp_> what the hell, is it crazy day? my 230's to 250's bot is suddenly 156: http://ai-contest.com/profile.php?user_id=10821
2010-11-06T21:25:02  <Prillicy> someone feel like taking a look for me and telling me what is different about these two argument lists?
2010-11-06T21:25:11  <Prillicy> I can't see it, and I might just be too close too the problem
2010-11-06T21:25:36  <Prillicy> http://area-51-x.com/css/images/comparison.png
2010-11-06T21:26:55  <lavalamp_> Good lord, that's impossible to read
2010-11-06T21:27:24  <lavalamp_> you need to change your working directory or something to get that to something manageble
2010-11-06T21:27:52  <lavalamp_> I'm surprised your eyes didn't start bleeding just looking at it....
2010-11-06T21:28:02  <lavalamp_> ;)
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2010-11-06T21:29:47  <Prillicy> nonsense
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2010-11-06T21:36:16  <amstan> lavalamp_: you probably won against someone with high rank
2010-11-06T21:36:48  <lavalamp_> I'm not sure... it looks like it went on a winning streak
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2010-11-06T21:38:19  <lavalamp_> Looks like I beat 5 people in the 150-200 range
2010-11-06T21:38:39  <lavalamp_> but I don't understand... I haven't changed the code in like a week
2010-11-06T21:39:00  <lavalamp_> is it just that it started matching me against stronger opposition?
2010-11-06T21:41:55  <Prillicy> could be
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2010-11-06T21:43:11  <bhasker> hmmm solving for all possible ships in future seems to paralyze my bot once it loses the advantage
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2010-11-06T21:53:17  <antimatroid1> lavalap: the rankings are also quite a bit of luck, it's impossible to accurately rank this many bots
2010-11-06T21:53:34  <antimatroid1> but it does better than most other "contests"
2010-11-06T21:54:03  <antimatroid1> like in a sporting contest, it's basically luck of who you get drawn to play and how well you play on the day, this beats the hell out of that for accurate rankings
2010-11-06T21:54:06  <lavalamp_> bocsimacko seems to get lucky a lot then...
2010-11-06T21:54:18  <antimatroid1> he easily has the best bot
2010-11-06T21:54:57  <Prillicy> I imagine he doesn't share his  ideas?
2010-11-06T21:55:11  <antimatroid1> he has been somewhat happy to share when asked
2010-11-06T21:55:17  <antimatroid1> more so than i would have expected tbh
2010-11-06T21:56:13  <Prillicy> hmm
2010-11-06T21:56:31  <Prillicy> so I'm still having a problem with my visualizer build
2010-11-06T21:56:54  <antimatroid1> bah, i mustn't start programming again till tuesday
2010-11-06T21:57:03  <lavalamp_> we know he does some sort of 1 ply something and has an evaluation function that he spends a lot of time tuning
2010-11-06T21:57:17  <antimatroid1> the evaluation function is everything
2010-11-06T21:57:21  <antimatroid1> for this
2010-11-06T21:57:39  <antimatroid1> 1 ply minimax tree** btw
2010-11-06T21:57:52  <antimatroid1> i'm not entirely sure what he menas by 1 ply though
2010-11-06T21:58:21  <antimatroid1> perhaps he means he makes a complete set of moves for him at each node then the same for the opponent player, that giving one ply
2010-11-06T21:58:31  <antimatroid1> but i think there's a number of things that could fall under "1 ply"
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2010-11-06T21:59:21  <antimatroid1> my ideal game tree involves me making one move at each node, then them rinse and repeat, but it's too hard to get the resolution right for me to have to working unbuggily
2010-11-06T21:59:39  <antimatroid1> to have it* working unbuggily
2010-11-06T22:00:38  <Prillicy> I have no idea what 1 ply minimax tree means
2010-11-06T22:02:16  <Prillicy> I  think I have to give up
2010-11-06T22:02:26  <Prillicy> I was just trying to write a file to run the visualizer for me
2010-11-06T22:02:28  <Prillicy> :(
2010-11-06T22:02:37  <Prillicy> didn't think it would be this problematic
2010-11-06T22:02:41  <Prillicy> I keep getting an error
2010-11-06T22:03:12  <antimatroid1> what visualiser are you using?
2010-11-06T22:03:16  <Prillicy> Error: Failed to Start Client: !
2010-11-06T22:03:18  <antimatroid1> http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=751 i use that
2010-11-06T22:03:24  <Prillicy> sorry !/|
2010-11-06T22:03:30  <Prillicy> just the regular noe
2010-11-06T22:03:37  <antimatroid1> download that, it's wonderful
2010-11-06T22:03:49  <Prillicy> jbot manager is buggy
2010-11-06T22:03:58  <antimatroid1> yes, but it works most of the time
2010-11-06T22:04:24  * Prillicy sighs
2010-11-06T22:04:42  <Prillicy> I got this whole exe together
2010-11-06T22:04:54  <Prillicy> and it's beautiful, there's just a typo or something I'm missing
2010-11-06T22:05:01  <Prillicy> probably c# process issue
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2010-11-06T22:06:58  <antimatroid1> groan, time to start studying i guess
2010-11-06T22:07:03  <antimatroid1> 2 days and 2 exams then i'm free
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2010-11-06T22:15:32  <contestbot> Top 10 players: bocsimacko(4315), shangas(4182), Raschi(4116), bix0r4ever(4068), george(4067), dmj111(4053), Xrillo(4027), sin_sun(4008), Slin-.-(4005), rsergio(4005)
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2010-11-06T22:25:13  <lavalamp_> yay my bot loses on every test map without crashing
2010-11-06T22:26:01  <antimatroid1> it would take me so long to run a test on all 100 test maps
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2010-11-06T22:30:20  <lavalamp_> ok well I only tried 10
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2010-11-06T22:33:53  <lavalamp_> heh it plays worse than it did when it had bugs >.<
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2010-11-06T22:40:09  <antimatroid1> interesting, georges bot has been crashing on the main site
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2010-11-06T22:42:14  <demerzel_> sup
2010-11-06T22:42:32  <demerzel_> if(opponent_name.contains("dimwit")) { disconnect(); }
2010-11-06T22:42:40  <demerzel_> dude needs a new internet connection
2010-11-06T22:42:56  <lavalamp_> maybe he's just crashing
2010-11-06T22:43:17  <demerzel_> he restarts awful quick
2010-11-06T22:43:41  <demerzel_> no it's seriously 4-5 seconds per turn - excruciating while running a test game
2010-11-06T22:46:02  <Prillicy> I'm getting an exception when I try to run jbot manager
2010-11-06T22:46:49  *** Utkarsh <Utkarsh!~admin@117.201.80.229> has joined #aichallenge
2010-11-06T22:47:46  <Prillicy> says could not find the main class
2010-11-06T22:48:03  <lavalamp_> demerzel_, we're on
2010-11-06T22:48:08  <demerzel_> it will be quick lol
2010-11-06T22:48:11  <demerzel_> it's a pretty stupid bot
2010-11-06T22:48:14  <demerzel_> mostly a state test
2010-11-06T22:49:02  <demerzel_> Pricilly: i don't use that but most java problems are solved by reading the java command line args
2010-11-06T22:49:06  <demerzel_> or check the thread
2010-11-06T22:49:09  <lavalamp_> it put up a pretty good fight
2010-11-06T22:49:28  <Prillicy> I don't know java
2010-11-06T22:49:32  <Prillicy> I don't code in java
2010-11-06T22:50:11  <demerzel_> me neither ;)
2010-11-06T22:50:37  <demerzel_> lavalamp_ lol thanks - i am about to start some actual logic once i can be sure it has the right damn numbers for a change
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2010-11-06T22:51:03  <pgpaskar_> Neato
2010-11-06T22:51:05  <pgpaskar_> ty
2010-11-06T22:51:12  <pgpaskar_> When I restart irssi...... I never remember it
2010-11-06T22:51:33  <amstan> check this shit out, it's supposed to make python simple int operations go 100 faster: https://github.com/graphitemaster/OPMASM/blob/9d5e8c711b4656b65c938aa0500b11f52486701e/Math.hpp
2010-11-06T22:51:34  <Prillicy> ugh, I'm so frustrated just trying to get a decent visualizer up so I can test my bots
2010-11-06T22:51:40  <Prillicy> I am about to give up on all of this
2010-11-06T22:51:54  <pgpaskar_> Prillicy: tisnt there a downloadable canvas visualizer?
2010-11-06T22:51:59  <amstan> Prillicy: hmm? they're not that hard to use
2010-11-06T22:52:03  <amstan> yeah.. canvas visualizer
2010-11-06T22:52:06  <demerzel_> amstan: i know a trick thta will make simple int ops go 100x faster
2010-11-06T22:52:09  <demerzel_> amstan: use C lol
2010-11-06T22:52:13  <Prillicy> the jbot manager one is broken
2010-11-06T22:52:23  <amstan> demerzel_: read that code... you'll understand, scroll to the bottom
2010-11-06T22:53:02  <Prillicy> trying to run the massive command line arguments on the standard one I spent 4 hours trying to automate with an exe only to find that it's starting multiple processes under one main process, somethign I can't emulate afaik
2010-11-06T22:53:17  <Prillicy> and the .exe one is too big for my screen
2010-11-06T22:53:27  <lavalamp_> jbot manager works well for me, what error does it give you?
2010-11-06T22:53:42  <Prillicy> cannot find the main class
2010-11-06T22:53:49  <demerzel_> amstan: wth they are writing asm code for python/  lol
2010-11-06T22:54:06  <amstan> demerzel_: so... hold on... no... that would be ok, kinda... nvm, it won't
2010-11-06T22:54:11  <amstan> demerzel_: ignoring that...
2010-11-06T22:54:45  <demerzel_> that's direct asm manip
2010-11-06T22:54:45  <amstan> demerzel_: here's how this would be used: asmmath(operation,a,b), where operation is a string... ex: "add"
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2010-11-06T22:56:04  <demerzel_> yea no i get it i just don't understand why you need asm for arithmetic
2010-11-06T22:56:14  <Prillicy> lavalamp_: "cannot find main class"
2010-11-06T22:56:42  <demerzel_> i'm not familiar enough with asm to really see what it's doing maybe raedwulf knows lol
2010-11-06T22:57:16  <demerzel_> haha holy shit dumbbot beat somebody woo
2010-11-06T22:57:22  <lavalamp_> Prillicy: what's your java version?
2010-11-06T22:57:30  <Prillicy> portable
2010-11-06T22:57:45  <lavalamp_> that doesn't sound like a number?
2010-11-06T22:58:18  <demerzel_> haha
2010-11-06T22:58:22  <Prillicy> 1.6.0_21
2010-11-06T22:58:36  <demerzel_> so sun sdk latest jre
2010-11-06T22:58:38  <lavalamp_> huh
2010-11-06T22:58:47  <demerzel_> err -sdk
2010-11-06T23:00:01  <lavalamp_> Prillicy: so it doesn't start at all? or it gives that error when you try to run a bot?
2010-11-06T23:00:20  <Prillicy> no, gives that error when I try to start it from command line
2010-11-06T23:00:23  <Prillicy> and doesn't start
2010-11-06T23:01:01  <lavalamp_> huh
2010-11-06T23:01:20  <lavalamp_> you're running java -jar jbotmanage.jar or whatever?
2010-11-06T23:01:28  <lavalamp_> *manager
2010-11-06T23:01:31  <demerzel_> paste your command line arg
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2010-11-06T23:02:27  <Prillicy> http://area-51-x.com/css/images/java-errors.png
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2010-11-06T23:02:49  <demerzel_> no what you are actually trying to run
2010-11-06T23:03:07  <demerzel_> ohoh i see it above
2010-11-06T23:03:14  * Prillicy grins.
2010-11-06T23:03:18  <demerzel_> java -jar is what you're missing
2010-11-06T23:03:21  <demerzel_> before jbotmanager
2010-11-06T23:03:36  * Prillicy facepalms.
2010-11-06T23:03:51  <lavalamp_> damn beat me to it
2010-11-06T23:06:54  <Prillicy> ok, got it running, but when I click start and then click > nothing happens
2010-11-06T23:07:04  <Prillicy> yes, I set up the bots
2010-11-06T23:07:11  <Prillicy> used this once before
2010-11-06T23:08:11  <demerzel_> my guess would be your bot isn't working
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2010-11-06T23:13:45  <Prillicy> it's the starter bot
2010-11-06T23:13:55  <Prillicy> I have yet to get a visualizer working, so I'm not building other bots
2010-11-06T23:13:59  <Prillicy> it worked against a human
2010-11-06T23:14:00  <Prillicy> just tested it
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2010-11-06T23:14:57  <demerzel_> no offense but lots of people use that and "-jar" almost had you quitting lol
2010-11-06T23:15:09  <demerzel_> i'm pretty sure it's something on your end
2010-11-06T23:15:34  <contestbot> Top 10 players: bocsimacko(4321), shangas(4186), Raschi(4144), bix0r4ever(4079), george(4069), dmj111(4058), Xrillo(4039), Slin-.-(4031), rsergio(4018), sin_sun(4017)
2010-11-06T23:15:44  <Prillicy> i had this same problem earlier with this one, which is why I went through all of the effort I did to get another visualizer working to no avail
2010-11-06T23:16:03  <Prillicy> and no, I almost quit cause I've been working at visualizers all day and haven't even gotten to  start with the AI
2010-11-06T23:16:18  <Prillicy> 'cause I can't get one damn visualizer to work
2010-11-06T23:16:32  <demerzel_> i have never used that particular one so i don't know what it needs
2010-11-06T23:17:05  <demerzel_> are you running the same exe twice
2010-11-06T23:17:12  <demerzel_> depending on your os it might not like that make a copy
2010-11-06T23:17:14  <Prillicy> no
2010-11-06T23:17:22  <Prillicy> but that worked when I did that
2010-11-06T23:18:36  <demerzel_> good - gonna go work on some logic now that state seems to be stable, hope i don't break it again lol
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2010-11-06T23:19:24  <Prillicy> it was another stupid error, it must be late...it is
2010-11-06T23:24:47  <Prillicy> finally, I can get started
2010-11-06T23:24:48  <Prillicy> thanks
2010-11-06T23:25:28  <antimatroid1> i'm considering a full rewrite after tuesday
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2010-11-06T23:36:51  <Prillicy> what are the player ids? 1 - 4 or 0 - 3?
2010-11-06T23:37:34  <McLeopold> 1-4, 0 is neutral
2010-11-06T23:37:45  <Prillicy> k
2010-11-06T23:37:45  <McLeopold> for this contest, it will only be 1-2
2010-11-06T23:39:34  <Prillicy> which one is my bot? or how do I check that?
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2010-11-06T23:43:02  <Prillicy> hmm
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2010-11-06T23:55:54  <McLeopold> Prillicy: your bot is 1, always
2010-11-06T23:56:15  <Prillicy> k, thanks
2010-11-06T23:57:09  <McLeopold> Prillicy: http://ai-contest.com/specification.php#game-state-update
2010-11-06T23:57:20  <McLeopold> You'll want to have a good handle on the order of battle.
2010-11-06T23:57:46  <pgpaskar_> man that top10 is all over the place
2010-11-06T23:57:54  <pgpaskar_> people are getting seriously good
2010-11-06T23:58:10  <McLeopold> You'll need a function that can calculate the battle and prediction the future.
2010-11-06T23:58:16  <McLeopold> @rankings
2010-11-06T23:58:18  <contestbot> McLeopold: Top 10 players: bocsimacko(4316), shangas(4187), Raschi(4139), bix0r4ever(4075), george(4057), dmj111(4052), Xrillo(4032), Slin-.-(4028), rsergio(4014), sin_sun(4001)
2010-11-06T23:58:19  <Prillicy> not yet
2010-11-06T23:58:31  <Prillicy> first I want to get it to make smart moves
2010-11-06T23:58:49  <McLeopold> umm, prediction future state will get you smart moves.
2010-11-06T23:59:04  <McLeopold> The best example is the "poach" or "snipe"
2010-11-06T23:59:40  <McLeopold> if an enemy fleet takes a neutral with just 1 extra ships, then it's pretty easy to send a fleet 1 turn after with the growth rate + 1
2010-11-06T23:59:53  <McLeopold> You need to be able to predict the future state of a planet to see that