2010-11-29T00:01:24 *** medrimonia2 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-11-29T00:02:14 *** Rubicon-|-Cross has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2010-11-29T00:05:55 ok, the raw game result data as fed to bayeselo is available at http://ai-contest.com/ranking-data 2010-11-29T00:06:15 it currently has the data from the last day of competition through the present 2010-11-29T00:07:04 this is likely to change though with more spread out data from the open competition 2010-11-29T00:10:55 *** krokkrok has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T00:27:43 *** delt0r___ has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T00:28:11 *** davidjliu has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-11-29T00:29:15 *** delt0r has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2010-11-29T00:29:40 *** McLeopold has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-11-29T00:32:20 *** davidjliu has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T00:38:42 lol http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=9023431 2010-11-29T00:38:44 -_- 2010-11-29T00:42:05 *** krokkrok has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-11-29T00:46:30 *** CryBaby has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T00:48:15 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3905), Accoun(3805), _iouri_(3791), _Astek_(3785), GreenTea(3771), Slin-.-(3769), protocolocon(3767), george(3764), jimrogerz(3759), shangas(3699) 2010-11-29T00:50:16 Ken69267: I've had some like that. 2010-11-29T00:50:43 I don't know what good those maps are that have the starting planets so close. 2010-11-29T00:55:09 so bocs is dominating so far? 2010-11-29T00:55:21 but there is 5 and 7 ship planets 2010-11-29T00:55:24 *are 2010-11-29T00:55:50 you can send up to 20 ships off.. 2010-11-29T00:55:55 cap one of the 5's 2010-11-29T00:56:10 then spread out if they don't attack quickly 2010-11-29T00:56:15 then come backand squish 2010-11-29T00:56:58 also if you were to counter attack with 20, you would probably win 2010-11-29T00:57:42 yep, that's not that bad map 2010-11-29T00:58:06 ya, it has an obvious first move.. 2010-11-29T00:58:24 but then has a variety of moves for after the second-base is established 2010-11-29T00:58:53 (counter attack) if it takes 4 moves to go between the two 5-growth planets, the countered planet has time to build up defense 2010-11-29T00:59:11 only has tie if they stopa ttacking 2010-11-29T00:59:15 if they keep sending 5, they lose 2010-11-29T00:59:19 i see what you mean about the smaller planets, though 2010-11-29T01:05:21 *** Utkarsh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-11-29T01:05:40 yeah, i got mcleopold on the main site 2010-11-29T01:06:02 i've breached the top 25 2010-11-29T01:06:12 dmj111: hehehehehehe 2010-11-29T01:12:03 it's looking very promising for bosci 2010-11-29T01:12:04 :) 2010-11-29T01:14:35 *** Utkarsh has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T01:17:26 davidjliu: damn you! 2010-11-29T01:17:35 oh, i crashed again! 2010-11-29T01:17:35 worst 2010-11-29T01:19:03 aw, that was an ignoble victory 2010-11-29T01:19:49 wasn't I about to take your homebase though, it seems? 2010-11-29T01:20:25 heh, jk perhaps 2010-11-29T01:20:43 yep, you probably had me anyway 2010-11-29T01:20:52 that's my biggest floor, it doesn't necessarily leave anything anywhere 2010-11-29T01:21:00 i couldn't get that working properly 2010-11-29T01:21:15 there's also the fact that the tree is just completely broken, but that's alright cause it seems to work 2010-11-29T01:21:19 it's a character building bug :) 2010-11-29T01:21:31 *** Mathnerd314 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2010-11-29T01:22:08 I just tested, and I actually would've sent to take the planets you just sent out to took (the ones on my side) 2010-11-29T01:22:11 boo, I'm out of hte top70 now ;( 2010-11-29T01:22:16 but it doesn't look like your base is safe... 2010-11-29T01:23:22 davidjliu: yeah, my bot throws lots of games like that 2010-11-29T01:23:30 it wasn't something i could fix without the cards tumbling 2010-11-29T01:24:15 mine seems to be entirely too stupid to possibly be in teh top 100 2010-11-29T01:24:30 no clue how I managed to get lucky enough to be in top20 for awhile 2010-11-29T01:27:28 antimatroid: aw, you broke our symmetry on turn 7. It was pretty nice up till then 2010-11-29T01:27:39 or maybe I broke our symmetry 2010-11-29T01:28:16 *** sanddbox has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2010-11-29T01:30:31 :P 2010-11-29T01:30:34 i think it was i 2010-11-29T01:30:57 burny: oh well, it's stil a very good bot for how long you spent on it 2010-11-29T01:31:20 it would have been a little embarrasing for everyone if you finished top 10 :P 2010-11-29T01:31:35 ha, an irc win streak... medrimonia1, antimatroid, and dmj111 :) 2010-11-29T01:31:50 antimatroid: at least your timeout wasn't against someone ranked... 400 something 2010-11-29T01:31:57 i just lost to raschi though 2010-11-29T01:32:07 bah... coulda had this game :( 2010-11-29T01:32:08 http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=9042759 2010-11-29T01:32:22 i might start playing around with arimaa now 2010-11-29T01:32:39 i really wish it was aribaa 2010-11-29T01:32:43 aribaa aribaaa! 2010-11-29T01:33:02 arimaa? 2010-11-29T01:33:07 qu'est-ce que c'est? 2010-11-29T01:33:24 ? 2010-11-29T01:33:29 um, what's that? 2010-11-29T01:33:43 heh, my high-school level french skills 2010-11-29T01:34:07 snif loose again =( 2010-11-29T01:34:34 Good french davidjliu 2010-11-29T01:34:45 merci beaucoup 2010-11-29T01:34:48 I'm actually terrible at French 2010-11-29T01:35:57 i can count to like 30 in french 2010-11-29T01:36:10 that's what i got out of like 7 years of french clases through primary and high school 2010-11-29T01:36:13 time well spent 2010-11-29T01:36:31 high school here is middle school for most of you** 2010-11-29T01:36:32 *** tapwater has quit IRC (Quit: tapwater) 2010-11-29T01:36:37 french is not an easy language, I think that english is a lot easier 2010-11-29T01:36:55 i'm very tempted to learn russian 2010-11-29T01:36:58 je devrais me coucher... a demain! 2010-11-29T01:37:11 Bonne nuit =) 2010-11-29T01:37:16 *** sigh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2010-11-29T01:37:30 *** davidjliu has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-11-29T01:38:27 antimatroid: I'm running local games against your bot 2010-11-29T01:39:35 medrimonia1: see you in 10 years :) 2010-11-29T01:39:41 8 wins for you 7 for me^^ 2010-11-29T01:39:54 the funny thing is, that bot is so broken it's not even funny 2010-11-29T01:40:01 the construction of the tree is just plain fucked :) 2010-11-29T01:40:20 Mine bot has a lot of issues in fact 2010-11-29T01:40:21 *** amriedle has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal) 2010-11-29T01:40:35 but I was to lazy to work on it the last few days 2010-11-29T01:40:37 yeah, but not like this, the actual tree is being generated not right at all :) 2010-11-29T01:40:57 and i think there's probably memory leaks because of it 2010-11-29T01:41:52 You have always a faster expand than me 2010-11-29T01:42:31 I really need to get more used to programming 2010-11-29T01:42:51 I'm spending too much time on writing things very badly 2010-11-29T01:42:59 "The method is based on Hypercube-based NeuroEvolution of Augmenting Topologies 2010-11-29T01:42:59 (HyperNEAT)" 2010-11-29T01:42:59 ehehe 2010-11-29T01:43:16 *** Appleman1234 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2010-11-29T01:43:19 medrimonia1: me too, i'm a very poor programmer 2010-11-29T01:43:37 but i don't plan to work as a programmer directly, so meh 2010-11-29T01:44:25 10/7 for you 2010-11-29T01:45:23 I needed to added the concept of defense, to my bot :( 2010-11-29T01:46:03 i think i'm over my bot 2010-11-29T01:46:10 i'll let it run it's course and move on from this game 2010-11-29T01:46:12 it's so damn hard 2010-11-29T01:46:19 same 2010-11-29T01:46:27 my hat goes off to bocsi though 2010-11-29T01:46:32 same 2010-11-29T01:46:36 woulda liked to work on it more.. but no point in bothering, after it's already over 2010-11-29T01:46:54 yay, i beat oldman 2010-11-29T01:47:25 I'll maybe work on it in a few years just to see how stupid I was and how my code was dirty^^ 2010-11-29T01:47:44 you wont :P 2010-11-29T01:47:49 there'll be more interesting things to do 2010-11-29T01:47:59 there's not enough time to do eveything i want, let alone go back to things 2010-11-29T01:48:16 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3914), Accoun(3808), _Astek_(3796), Slin-.-(3787), protocolocon(3774), _iouri_(3771), george(3770), jimrogerz(3767), GreenTea(3766), shangas(3695) 2010-11-29T01:48:17 yep time is always an issue 2010-11-29T01:48:25 someone really needs to cure sleep 2010-11-29T01:48:28 it's a plague 2010-11-29T01:48:57 I don't sleep a lot, but it's still too much and not enough^^ 2010-11-29T01:49:29 i have been so sleep deprived the last few months 2010-11-29T01:49:38 it wasn't so bad once uni finished and i could sleep in 2010-11-29T01:49:49 i was going to bed at liike 5 some nights and making it to class at 9 2010-11-29T01:51:42 I don't when my bot will stop falling in the rankings... 2010-11-29T01:53:30 i love how competitive the top 2-50 is 2010-11-29T01:57:01 duno how my bot is still in the top100 with like.. 5/40 wins lately 2010-11-29T01:58:31 sigh.. every loss I've watched now, is still the same stupid missing feature 2010-11-29T01:58:38 er.. one of 2 features rathe 2010-11-29T01:58:39 I've had such a good start that I was even hoping to be in top 10 2010-11-29T01:58:58 although, could probably get away with only implementing one of the 2 2010-11-29T01:59:13 i want top 30 now 2010-11-29T01:59:40 now, I hope top 30 and I'm not sure at all 2010-11-29T02:01:30 yeah neither 2010-11-29T02:01:34 i've had a couple of crashes 2010-11-29T02:01:38 and i make some really stupid moves 2010-11-29T02:01:45 but i can also go head to head with accoun pretty well 2010-11-29T02:01:48 and i beat iouri 2010-11-29T02:01:52 *** rebelxt_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T02:02:55 http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=9048449 2010-11-29T02:02:57 interesting game 2010-11-29T02:03:24 At the beginning, I beat protocolocon george, greentea and jimrogerz 2010-11-29T02:03:43 *** medrimonia1 is now known as medrimonia 2010-11-29T02:03:49 i think i beat rogerz 2010-11-29T02:03:52 george got m 2010-11-29T02:04:01 and proto got me 2010-11-29T02:04:10 i got manwe back for beating me early 2010-11-29T02:04:41 davidjliu: I think you'll make it back into the top 10 :) 2010-11-29T02:05:15 shangs month old bot is in 10th 2010-11-29T02:05:18 that's pretty damn good 2010-11-29T02:05:57 antimatroid: hey, gonna try your bot on 150 maps. .. you were up 40-0-35 against me on on yesterday's maps 2010-11-29T02:06:07 ha, that's going to take a while 2010-11-29T02:06:19 rebelxt_: Try mine after please =P 2010-11-29T02:06:21 i not once ran any tests over large sets of maps 2010-11-29T02:07:31 medrimonia: sure will do. you get higher priority since your bot is faster than antima's ;-) 2010-11-29T02:07:54 My bot is fast but I should have used more time... 2010-11-29T02:07:59 smiley is only in 81st place 2010-11-29T02:08:04 i expected him to be higher 2010-11-29T02:08:44 arimaa is going to be hard to write an ai for 2010-11-29T02:08:44 I was expecting a lot of people to be higher^^ 2010-11-29T02:08:47 antimatroid: smiley and i were very nicely matched on tcp last few days.. 50-50 2010-11-29T02:08:52 i foresee lots of testing in my future for that 2010-11-29T02:09:12 i think i could make my bot a lot better with like 30 minutes work 2010-11-29T02:09:23 revelxt_: would you be interested in running that if i fixed it up a bit? 2010-11-29T02:09:33 sure 2010-11-29T02:09:35 i'd be curious to see if it was heaps better/about the same/worse 2010-11-29T02:10:48 antimatroid: i was also curious to try giving your bot like 10 seconds per turn and see if it could win some games it lost 2010-11-29T02:11:50 rebelxt_: i'd need to change numbers inside the program for you 2010-11-29T02:12:02 but that tree is so broken i doubt it 2010-11-29T02:12:20 i'll make the new one and give you two versions, one that takes one second and another that takes 10 2010-11-29T02:12:40 okie 2010-11-29T02:14:00 *** virdo has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-11-29T02:18:49 *** winexception has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T02:21:06 *** CryBaby has left #aichallenge 2010-11-29T02:22:23 i'm up to 20th 2010-11-29T02:22:49 *** wh1teside has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2010-11-29T02:24:35 *** wh1teside has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T02:26:09 congrats antimatroid 2010-11-29T02:26:51 i don't think it will last 2010-11-29T02:28:30 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T02:29:12 medrimonia: you are just pwning my bot on new maps so far. all games should be finished within 10 minutes 2010-11-29T02:29:28 =) 2010-11-29T02:29:36 I hope new maps will help me 2010-11-29T02:31:00 yep it sure does look like it. i'm running a tournament with antimatroid, bhasker, e323, iouri, and mistmanov. will be able to tell which bot should profit from 2nd set of maps the most 2010-11-29T02:31:21 ^^ 2010-11-29T02:31:31 how do you run this kind of tournament? 2010-11-29T02:32:16 at the moment just running everyone against my bot on every map. i can share quick and dirty shell script 2010-11-29T02:33:26 Yes with pleasure =) 2010-11-29T02:42:33 *** rebelxt_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-11-29T02:43:20 *** Rubicon-|-Cross has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T02:44:46 *** rebelxt_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T02:45:07 medrimonia: you are 40-0-34 against me on 2nd set of finals maps 2010-11-29T02:45:45 *** pyro- has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T02:45:55 first set was 48-2-25 2010-11-29T02:47:10 so I'm better one the first one nop? 2010-11-29T02:47:30 yeah you were better on the first set against me 2010-11-29T02:48:16 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3924), Slin-.-(3819), _Astek_(3812), Accoun(3801), protocolocon(3790), GreenTea(3784), george(3782), jimrogerz(3778), _iouri_(3760), felixcoto(3701) 2010-11-29T02:48:28 but that's just me so no idea if that's very useful.. what i noticed is that lots of games went to 200 turns which did not happen as often using the first set 2010-11-29T02:50:19 *** mistmanov has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T02:52:11 *** pyro- has left #aichallenge 2010-11-29T02:55:01 *** Appleman1234 has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T03:04:19 *** yasith has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T03:07:53 antimatroid: i can test your tweaks any time. keeping a cloud server up and running for such tests for a few more days for sure 2010-11-29T03:10:01 *** rebelxt_ has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-11-29T03:13:41 *** wh1teside has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-11-29T03:15:44 *** wh1teside has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T03:17:31 rebelxt_: cool, i kept getting phone calls 2010-11-29T03:17:38 and i'm not sure it will work if i fix it 2010-11-29T03:17:46 i think bugs rein supreme 2010-11-29T03:18:03 i'll keep prodding for a bit and see though 2010-11-29T03:22:30 *** Appleman1234 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-11-29T03:22:34 *** narnach1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T03:22:34 *** narnach1 is now known as narnach_mb 2010-11-29T03:29:27 *** superflit has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-11-29T03:32:06 *** Palmik has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T03:35:22 *** superflit has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T03:40:13 *** smloh1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T03:40:34 hey all 2010-11-29T03:40:55 hey smloh1 2010-11-29T03:40:59 you beat slin :) 2010-11-29T03:41:27 yeah, i saw, exciting :) 2010-11-29T03:41:41 your bot's been doing pretty damn well! 2010-11-29T03:41:52 yeah, it should be doing that well 2010-11-29T03:41:58 i keep waiting for it to plumet 2010-11-29T03:42:07 shouldn't* hehe 2010-11-29T03:42:16 i've been chasing behind you for a bit and just finally caught up 2010-11-29T03:42:37 looks like your bot also has that secret function i put in my bot... 2010-11-29T03:42:45 what secret function? 2010-11-29T03:42:48 function PrayForLuck() 2010-11-29T03:42:56 ahh 2010-11-29T03:43:21 do you actually have such a function? as in i'm losing go for it? 2010-11-29T03:43:29 i don't, that's just my game tree being itself :s 2010-11-29T03:43:56 lol, no, i meant luck in terms of getting good maps 2010-11-29T03:44:01 damn, i got another loss 2010-11-29T03:44:03 to slin 2010-11-29T03:44:31 my bot doesn't keep track of whether it's winning or losing 2010-11-29T03:44:41 just tries to do its best and wait for opportunity 2010-11-29T03:44:46 of my last 4 pairings, i've had bix0r, astek and slin 2010-11-29T03:44:52 tough 2010-11-29T03:44:57 yeah my bot does that 2010-11-29T03:45:00 *** Palmik has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-11-29T03:45:02 which often causes it to throw games 2010-11-29T03:45:43 like attack when it's not completely safe even though it's ahead? 2010-11-29T03:46:08 yeah, or over expand when it's ahead 2010-11-29T03:46:09 *** Appleman1234 has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T03:46:22 or just send pretty much everything all the way across the map 2010-11-29T03:46:32 my bot is pretty stupid really 2010-11-29T03:46:55 it's certainly not something i would call great 2010-11-29T03:47:04 my bot has a problematic reinforcement routine 2010-11-29T03:47:20 sometimes it'll bounce ships around 2010-11-29T03:47:49 yeah, i send up to 4 times the planets growth to the closest friend less than the sources closest friend that minines dist[source][redist] + dist[redist][redist.closestenemy] 2010-11-29T03:48:01 minimises* 2010-11-29T03:48:17 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3952), Slin-.-(3830), _Astek_(3824), Accoun(3795), george(3795), GreenTea(3787), jimrogerz(3784), protocolocon(3774), _iouri_(3768), felixcoto(3718) 2010-11-29T03:48:43 **yeah, i send up to 4 times the planets growth to the closest friend less than the sources closest enemy* that minimises* dist[source][redist] + dist[redist][redist.closestenemy] 2010-11-29T03:48:54 ah.. i have a somewhat complex value function check that might cause some flipping situations 2010-11-29T03:49:22 *** Palmik has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T03:51:08 hmm i see so you basically reinforce towards closest enemy 2010-11-29T03:51:24 yep 2010-11-29T03:51:40 i tend to think it's better to have your ships at the front line 2010-11-29T03:51:48 you can normally defend the back line from there anyway 2010-11-29T03:52:05 how about expansion though? 2010-11-29T03:52:19 i wont redistribute until like turn 5 or so i think 2010-11-29T03:52:22 when you still have neutrals behind the frontline 2010-11-29T03:52:38 and then if it's planning to take neutrals, ships are left for that 2010-11-29T03:52:44 otherwise it just waits till later to expand 2010-11-29T03:52:52 but often there's planets near the centre to fight over anyway 2010-11-29T03:53:31 yeah, it's just, when you have a stalemate sometimes if you aggregate some ships further back they can safely capture a neutral and tilt the balance 2010-11-29T03:54:00 sometimes it works the other way too :P 2010-11-29T03:54:19 ah yes, i have plenty of losses to prove that 2010-11-29T03:55:19 it's amazing how addictive it is, refreshing a webpage to see the progress of something you no longer even have any ability to influence 2010-11-29T03:55:25 i want another game to play now 2010-11-29T03:55:29 i'm looking at arimaa 2010-11-29T03:55:40 but i don't really know how to do anything good with that number of moves available 2010-11-29T03:56:25 ah i will keep myself safely away from another timesink, for now... 2010-11-29T03:58:58 hehe, it is certainly just that 2010-11-29T03:59:13 but only because it's so much fun :P 2010-11-29T03:59:40 arimaa huh... 2010-11-29T04:00:05 there's lots of moves :| 2010-11-29T04:07:29 The pairing cutoff or perhaps more ominously although slightly less accurately, the elimination cutoff has begun its slow march up the ranks ;) 2010-11-29T04:09:33 janzert: :) 2010-11-29T04:09:34 4613? that's the number minus crashbots? 2010-11-29T04:10:20 smloh1: no that's the current cutoff it just started at 4619 and is currently headed for 4540 2010-11-29T04:10:37 oh so it's a slow progression 2010-11-29T04:10:52 right "slow march" and all that 2010-11-29T04:11:01 makes sense, more systematic than manually identifying cutoff points 2010-11-29T04:11:38 ah those are some exciting matches down at the bottom :P 2010-11-29T04:11:49 hehe 2010-11-29T04:11:54 *** narnach_mb has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2010-11-29T04:11:59 "will we both crash and draw, or will the opponent NOT crash and i lose??" 2010-11-29T04:13:00 that's where the real action is at 2010-11-29T04:13:07 yeah, it's like a version of russian roulette except, "I always shoot myself and just hope my opponent does the same" :) 2010-11-29T04:14:07 maybe reverse dueling 2010-11-29T04:16:35 interesting, bots that always crash have ELO ranging from 0 all the way to 16 2010-11-29T04:16:53 lowest elo is anchored at 0 2010-11-29T04:17:58 I guess some have higher scores because they lost to better players :P 2010-11-29T04:19:14 yes that looks like it, since the higher score ones actually seem to have more losses 2010-11-29T04:21:37 yeah, of course in the limit they would all go to zero but with the limited games bayeselo can't tell that 2010-11-29T04:22:31 and actually only 16 elo is a pretty small spread already so it would probably take a *lot* more games to push them right together 2010-11-29T04:23:57 how fast is the cutoff changing? 2010-11-29T04:24:32 approximately 1 rank per minute 2010-11-29T04:25:17 it will stop at 4540 at 4:30 server time 2010-11-29T04:25:18 so you want it to reach 1 at the end of the final? 2010-11-29T04:25:23 oh ok 2010-11-29T04:25:47 93 games per bot 2010-11-29T04:25:58 yeah, I'm just taking out, most of, the crash bots right now 2010-11-29T04:26:20 Accoun: yep 2010-11-29T04:28:59 *** narnach1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T04:28:59 *** narnach1 is now known as narnach_mb 2010-11-29T04:38:00 hooooooowdy 2010-11-29T04:38:16 *** Naktibalda has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T04:38:28 janzert: division by 0 on line 17 @ stats :P 2010-11-29T04:38:45 probably in successfull submissions percentage 2010-11-29T04:40:50 hello Error323 2010-11-29T04:41:00 hey smloh1 2010-11-29T04:41:18 you got a good bot there! 2010-11-29T04:42:04 i certainly hope so! could be a string of lucky coincidences that would be ironed out once more games are run :P 2010-11-29T04:42:17 maybe 2010-11-29T04:42:22 i ran ur bot against mine 2010-11-29T04:42:31 39 for you 35 for me :P 2010-11-29T04:42:37 1 draw 2010-11-29T04:42:46 yeah i had a lot of trouble beating your bot on tcp 2010-11-29T04:42:54 so it seems 2010-11-29T04:43:36 but i'm currently @ 72 2010-11-29T04:43:47 i wonder if some strategies are rock-paper-scissory to other strategies 2010-11-29T04:44:35 is your bot processor intensive? 2010-11-29T04:44:48 no, 3ms per turn 2010-11-29T04:45:22 https://github.com/Error323/googleai 2010-11-29T04:45:31 gonna take a shower 2010-11-29T04:45:34 brb 2010-11-29T04:45:38 later 2010-11-29T04:46:35 Error323: oops, thanks. couldn't handle 0 new submissions :) 2010-11-29T04:48:17 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3949), Slin-.-(3841), _Astek_(3807), george(3801), GreenTea(3795), Accoun(3791), _iouri_(3784), protocolocon(3780), jimrogerz(3768), felixcoto(3718) 2010-11-29T04:53:38 *** GreenTea has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T04:54:07 hi all 2010-11-29T04:55:38 hello GreenTea 2010-11-29T04:55:43 your bot's doing well! 2010-11-29T04:56:02 yea. not bad 2010-11-29T04:57:00 you too, 17 plase, victory against george ;) 2010-11-29T04:57:35 thanks, hope my luck holds out :) 2010-11-29T05:01:16 bix0r is slowly gaining ground 2010-11-29T05:01:26 still much lower than expected 2010-11-29T05:03:47 ranking changes are getting slower and slower 2010-11-29T05:04:12 looks like bix0r is vulnerable to sniping and it's giving him losses to lower ranked players than you would otherwise expect? 2010-11-29T05:04:53 he must have made a mistake on the last day 2010-11-29T05:05:11 his previous entries were very solid 2010-11-29T05:05:39 at least just looking at his last three losses they all looked like they were due to getting sniped 2010-11-29T05:05:41 much like Slin now 2010-11-29T05:06:38 pairing cutoff is 4562 2010-11-29T05:07:10 meas that players bellow 4562 place are not played now? 2010-11-29T05:07:24 right 2010-11-29T05:07:32 the one against davidjliu is a lost opening 2010-11-29T05:07:52 look at discussion from around a half hour ago though, it's gradually making its way up to 4550 2010-11-29T05:08:19 err, 4540 2010-11-29T05:08:46 the one against neverstu: took a small growth 69 and gave up a high growth 68 2010-11-29T05:09:21 and he was sniped by darkemi. 2010-11-29T05:09:23 mega1_: oops the neverstu one wasn't there yet and I didn't look at the davidjliu game 2010-11-29T05:09:40 In all three games he was outwaited. 2010-11-29T05:09:49 DarkEmi, wagstaff and thdreamer were the ones I looked at 2010-11-29T05:10:41 yeeeeehaw i'm still rising 2010-11-29T05:10:42 " the one against neverstu: took a small growth 69 and gave up a high growth 68" yes. Winner will be bot which makes less mistakes) 2010-11-29T05:10:46 70 now 2010-11-29T05:11:19 GreenTea: sure. 2010-11-29T05:12:35 so he's being sniped from one point of view or outwaited from an another. 2010-11-29T05:12:55 actually this is what the new generator emphasized 2010-11-29T05:14:29 yep 2010-11-29T05:14:36 i changed my code to snipe a lot more 2010-11-29T05:15:50 yes this problem "not to take planet if after that enemy can take a better planet in center" bacame more actual with new map generator 2010-11-29T05:16:01 because of 1-5 center planets.. 2010-11-29T05:16:56 it was pretty hard to get right 2010-11-29T05:17:13 I certainly did not. 2010-11-29T05:18:39 the whole game is hard 2010-11-29T05:18:47 =] 2010-11-29T05:18:55 antimatroid: you beat me 10 times more 2010-11-29T05:18:59 nicely done _o_ 2010-11-29T05:19:03 :) 2010-11-29T05:19:16 janzert: i've slowly started looking at arimaa :) 2010-11-29T05:19:18 but i'll cast my timeout spell over you 2010-11-29T05:19:38 whoot still climbing 2010-11-29T05:19:41 68 2010-11-29T05:19:45 *** RubiconCross has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T05:19:52 great, just don't pass my efforts up too quick :) 2010-11-29T05:20:06 *** RubiconCross has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2010-11-29T05:20:25 *** winexception has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-11-29T05:21:47 I have a three year history there of coming in third, but that will probably be broken this year since I haven't worked on it at all. 2010-11-29T05:21:55 *** Rubicon-|-Cross has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2010-11-29T05:21:59 ahhh nice 2010-11-29T05:23:09 *** smloh1 has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-11-29T05:24:02 janzert: do you monitor the likelihood of superiority stat from bayeselo? 2010-11-29T05:24:10 mega1_: yes 2010-11-29T05:24:28 hopefully I will publish it somehow on the final rankings as well 2010-11-29T05:24:30 how does it look for the top 2010-11-29T05:24:31 ? 2010-11-29T05:24:45 is it converging? 2010-11-29T05:25:04 but it's too processor intensive to put up live, it takes over 20 minutes on my machine which is about twice as fast as the main server 2010-11-29T05:25:06 yes, it is 2010-11-29T05:25:40 I'd rather not say too much about it though, since it may or may not be considered public information by some people 2010-11-29T05:25:55 mega1_: it's looking very good for you :) 2010-11-29T05:26:08 but of course anyone can check it themselves by downloading the pgn files I posted about earlier 2010-11-29T05:26:11 oh. Can we not get the same results by running bayeselo on the pgn files? 2010-11-29T05:26:18 ok 2010-11-29T05:26:52 need to be careful if you use a stock bayeselo though since it gives firstplayer advantage by default 2010-11-29T05:27:08 and wrong draw weight as well 2010-11-29T05:27:30 do you have command line example? 2010-11-29T05:27:35 the defaults are setup for chess 2010-11-29T05:29:06 draw vs bocsimacko. good! 2010-11-29T05:29:08 what is the superiority stat? 2010-11-29T05:29:37 *** janzert has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-11-29T05:30:08 Error323: the probability of a bot being stronger than another 2010-11-29T05:30:08 *** janzert has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T05:30:19 a measure of certainty of the bayeselo results. 2010-11-29T05:30:21 mega1_: ahh 2010-11-29T05:30:25 bah, client crash 2010-11-29T05:30:46 why wouldn't you want that to be public? 2010-11-29T05:30:49 mega1_: the commands used can be found in readgame.py in the repo 2010-11-29T05:30:54 thanks 2010-11-29T05:31:16 bayeselo doesn't work from straight command line options though 2010-11-29T05:31:31 you have to feed commands on the standard input 2010-11-29T05:31:34 *** Rubicon-|-Cross has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T05:32:05 if you're using a stock bayeselo you also need to add an appropriate command to cancel out the first player advantage 2010-11-29T05:32:36 for whatever reason at some point in the distant past Jeff modified our bayeselo source instead of sending it the command to cancel the advantage 2010-11-29T05:33:00 I don't remember the exact command needed offhand but it's something like "advantage 0" after entering elo mode 2010-11-29T05:33:27 GreenTea: that was a non-trivial draw 2010-11-29T05:34:10 big news: I finally got my first game against a clear top 100 player -_- 2010-11-29T05:34:15 (win, naturally) 2010-11-29T05:34:19 noooooooo my heater is broken and its freezing here >_> 2010-11-29T05:34:21 Error323: I would like for the los to be public, but since it's not feasible for me to add it to the main site some people will feel like I'm giving out special information if I just tell people what it is 2010-11-29T05:34:54 mistmanov: congrats 2010-11-29T05:34:59 janzert: I see, yes there are weird ppl around here >_> 2010-11-29T05:35:09 :P 2010-11-29T05:35:18 <<<--- still thinks the organizers are cheating by not giving my games against high ranked players :p 2010-11-29T05:35:24 *chiting 2010-11-29T05:35:27 chiting yes 2010-11-29T05:35:28 :P 2010-11-29T05:35:33 learn howto spell ey 2010-11-29T05:35:35 ;) 2010-11-29T05:35:43 we've been over this, janzert spent weeks picking out maps you guys suck on 2010-11-29T05:35:51 wow I keep winning 2010-11-29T05:35:57 i keep losing :( 2010-11-29T05:36:57 but I really think that with the way the bots are written, and the way the pairs are selected, your initial few games can make a big difference in final ranking 2010-11-29T05:37:07 the winners will still be the deserved winners 2010-11-29T05:37:19 well 2010-11-29T05:37:27 but like if you wrote something that sucks against ragebot, and get you get stuck in a field of ragebots 2010-11-29T05:37:34 -->> fail 2010-11-29T05:37:37 yes 2010-11-29T05:38:04 can't think of a better way to do it though so I'm not complaining =) 2010-11-29T05:38:04 but eventually you'll climb out 2010-11-29T05:38:20 as you _will_ get selected by higher opponents 2010-11-29T05:38:24 it just takes longer 2010-11-29T05:38:59 wuut 2 more wins, thx mogron and netwalker :P 2010-11-29T05:39:05 actually given a large enough field of similiar bots you certainly can get stuck on the wrong side of it, fortunately it looks like the only large field of similiar bots are the starter bots 2010-11-29T05:39:28 and if you get stuck on the wrong side of them cause you can't beat it I don't feel real bad 2010-11-29T05:39:47 i still think the bad start could hurt at the end 2010-11-29T05:39:51 for an otherwise equal bot 2010-11-29T05:39:56 but again, i don't see a better way 2010-11-29T05:40:02 certainly, it's not as if the final winner can get stuck somewhere 2010-11-29T05:40:06 other than maybe introducing the newer pairing method after x amount of time? 2010-11-29T05:40:37 an interesting idea next time would be to enter two decent identical bots, and see where they finish 2010-11-29T05:40:43 perhaps try this after the contest? 2010-11-29T05:40:46 with the bots all in there 2010-11-29T05:40:49 janzert: the pairing cutoff is set to all crashing bots? :P 2010-11-29T05:40:53 at the beginning of the contest the new pairing method and the old are equivalent 2010-11-29T05:40:55 that would be a good testing method actually 2010-11-29T05:40:57 cutof mast delete game results of cutofed bots 2010-11-29T05:40:59 enter all bots twice 2010-11-29T05:41:04 Error323: not quite all but basically 2010-11-29T05:41:14 heh i see 2010-11-29T05:41:33 no, Accoun there games still should count 2010-11-29T05:42:17 they are still just as valid game results 2010-11-29T05:42:28 I don't see why not 2010-11-29T05:42:48 it depends on the distribution of top bots playing lower bots? 2010-11-29T05:42:50 especially when the cutoff will rise 2010-11-29T05:42:52 random luses to cuted off bots make final rangings low quality 2010-11-29T05:42:54 if that is equal at cut off it's fine 2010-11-29T05:42:56 all results should still count 2010-11-29T05:42:59 otherwise i think accoun might be right 2010-11-29T05:43:07 well if player X has been matched with a horrible bot and lost due to a fluke, and now player Y can't play the horrible bot anymore.. 2010-11-29T05:43:23 also something that might night be quite obvious is that there will be "jitter" around the cutoff point 2010-11-29T05:43:36 might not even 2010-11-29T05:43:41 candian experiments 2010-11-29T05:43:49 it failed metod 2010-11-29T05:43:54 cutof mast delete game results of cutofed bots 2010-11-29T05:44:06 yay, at least we have a new line 2010-11-29T05:44:10 LOL 2010-11-29T05:44:14 bayeselo is underdocumented to say the least 2010-11-29T05:44:22 mega1_: yes for sure 2010-11-29T05:44:44 FFFFFUUUUUUU this week I went to a shop to buy a new USB-to-mini-usb-B cable... while right in front of me there's just such a shiny new cable that came with my new internet-banking thingie 2010-11-29T05:44:47 what is the difference between "m 0 1" and "mm"? 2010-11-29T05:44:54 (bit off-optic, buteh..) 2010-11-29T05:45:12 I need to work on my thesis 2010-11-29T05:45:25 ned mark cuted off bots in raankings by color and rint it lower ozer bots 2010-11-29T05:45:26 its been long enough :P 2010-11-29T05:45:34 mm 0 1 says to adjust the draw weight based on the actual game results but not the first player advantage 2010-11-29T05:45:37 need mark cuted off bots in raankings by color and print it lower ozer bots 2010-11-29T05:45:57 since we 'know' the first player is 0 we manually set that 2010-11-29T05:46:25 and game result with cuted off bots mast be deleted 2010-11-29T05:46:35 ithanks 2010-11-29T05:46:43 since we don't know the true draw weight we let bayeselo calculate what is actually happening 2010-11-29T05:48:00 Accoun: yes, marking the leaderboard with some visual cue to the cutoff would be nice but isn't going to make it in 2010-11-29T05:48:09 probably isn't 2010-11-29T05:48:17 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3960), Slin-.-(3852), _Astek_(3806), _iouri_(3803), GreenTea(3798), george(3796), Accoun(3787), protocolocon(3776), jimrogerz(3761), Raschi(3716) 2010-11-29T05:48:36 *** Rubicon-|-Cross has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2010-11-29T05:49:40 yet again way past bedtime for me, later all 2010-11-29T05:49:47 gnite 2010-11-29T05:50:21 geleting botd from ELO system will compres rankind numbers range 2010-11-29T05:50:21 oh man, i lost to smiley 2010-11-29T05:50:27 geleting bots from ELO system will compres rankind numbers range 2010-11-29T05:50:35 geleting? 2010-11-29T05:50:40 ... 2010-11-29T05:50:40 deleting bots from ELO system will compres rankind numbers range 2010-11-29T05:50:42 ah 2010-11-29T05:50:49 need mark cuted off bots in raankings by color and print it lower ozer bots 2010-11-29T05:50:55 ozer? 2010-11-29T05:51:02 and game results with cuted off bots mast be deleted 2010-11-29T05:51:19 Error323> îòåáèñÿ áë÷òü 2010-11-29T05:51:38 îòåáèñÿ áë÷òü? 2010-11-29T05:51:49 Error323> äà 2010-11-29T05:51:54 äà 2010-11-29T05:51:55 ? 2010-11-29T05:52:15 * Accoun Error323 now ignored 2010-11-29T05:52:33 why I just don't understand... 2010-11-29T05:52:53 Accoun: ik kan ook nederlands tegen je praten maar dat snap je ook niet 2010-11-29T05:53:57 wtf 2010-11-29T05:54:44 Accoun enable his chat bot.. 2010-11-29T05:55:22 *** Accoun has quit IRC () 2010-11-29T05:55:54 *** criis has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T05:55:55 he's persistent, i'll give him that 2010-11-29T05:56:08 *** criis has left #aichallenge 2010-11-29T05:57:03 all i did was hold up a mirror :P 2010-11-29T05:57:38 but i seriously don't understand a lot he's trying to say. 2010-11-29T06:08:56 *** mistmanov has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-11-29T06:15:06 Rankings are still very unstable ^^ 2010-11-29T06:15:26 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T06:16:49 make some times someone like it need 2010-11-29T06:17:23 u "cutoff" id dtrange compromise 2010-11-29T06:17:28 u "cutoff" is strange compromise 2010-11-29T06:25:40 *** Appleman1234 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2010-11-29T06:29:02 u make changing in game planing algoritm? 2010-11-29T06:33:12 *** Appleman1234 has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T06:34:08 and maked enjection new preselected by curent game results map set 2010-11-29T06:41:14 *** narnach_mb has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2010-11-29T06:48:18 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3971), Slin-.-(3857), _iouri_(3815), GreenTea(3801), _Astek_(3799), protocolocon(3790), george(3783), jimrogerz(3772), Accoun(3771), Raschi(3732) 2010-11-29T06:55:33 *** mega1_ has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-11-29T07:03:28 *** mega1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T07:04:34 mega1: sourcecode? I'll ask every day xD 2010-11-29T07:04:59 couple of days - 1 to go :-) 2010-11-29T07:05:09 :P 2010-11-29T07:05:52 *** Appleman1234 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2010-11-29T07:06:22 *** Appleman1234 has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T07:07:19 mega1: what is your sloccount? 2010-11-29T07:08:12 *** Appleman1234 has quit IRC (Excess Flood) 2010-11-29T07:08:44 *** Appleman1234 has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T07:09:04 Error323: 2000 2010-11-29T07:09:17 wow thats quite a lot still 2010-11-29T07:10:19 is it? iouri's is more than 4000 2010-11-29T07:10:24 yours is about the same 2010-11-29T07:10:35 yes but your coding in lisp 2010-11-29T07:10:44 *** Appleman1234 has quit IRC (Excess Flood) 2010-11-29T07:10:52 well i'm not familiar enough with lisp 2010-11-29T07:11:00 but I thought it was pretty high level 2010-11-29T07:11:02 there isn't much abstraction 2010-11-29T07:11:44 It is. In this task it's mostly iteration left and right. 2010-11-29T07:12:01 I see. 2010-11-29T07:12:16 its main advantage was speed and ease of development 2010-11-29T07:12:24 and speed of execution. 2010-11-29T07:13:46 And I rewrote a few critical parts to be faster making them three times as long in the process. 2010-11-29T07:13:47 I didn't now lisp was that fat 2010-11-29T07:13:54 fat? 2010-11-29T07:14:00 fast* 2010-11-29T07:14:04 lol 2010-11-29T07:14:22 it's quite fast 2010-11-29T07:14:32 within a factor of two of C 2010-11-29T07:14:42 cool 2010-11-29T07:16:30 i'm #63 atm :D 2010-11-29T07:16:36 still climbing a bit 2010-11-29T07:16:47 i hope to make top 50 2010-11-29T07:17:38 *** Appleman1234 has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T07:18:47 *** Appleman1234 has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T07:20:17 mega1: do you using lisp macroses in you code?) 2010-11-29T07:20:30 a bit, yes 2010-11-29T07:21:39 *** ZogStriP has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T07:22:40 I thought maybe you invent some kind of specail language using macroses specialy for this contest. to simplify scripting the bot )) 2010-11-29T07:22:55 *** ZogStriP has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2010-11-29T07:24:51 GreenTea: it's not scripted 2010-11-29T07:26:06 *** Azrathud has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T07:27:21 ok, maybe i use not right word 2010-11-29T07:28:55 where to draw a boundary line between scripted and not scripted? 2010-11-29T07:29:10 *** yasith has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2010-11-29T07:29:14 I found little need to use macros in this task 2010-11-29T07:29:48 scripted to me implies some kind of imperativeness: when this do that 2010-11-29T07:31:28 then not scripted means that all moves are substantiaded? 2010-11-29T07:32:10 not scripted is more indirect 2010-11-29T07:32:31 in my case the eval function will choose between moves 2010-11-29T07:32:31 looking at history of games from some, but there are quite a lot of draws 2010-11-29T07:32:36 it's still heuristic of course 2010-11-29T07:32:44 bbl, lunch calls 2010-11-29T07:33:11 on high level my bot is scripted. is has 5 phases: defence, forcedAttack, support, captureNeutrals, attack 2010-11-29T07:33:21 one phase is go after another 2010-11-29T07:33:41 snipe, attack/defend, expand, support is the sequence here 2010-11-29T07:34:17 and I found it is hard to substantiate what is better, to defence and then attack, or attack and then defence 2010-11-29T07:34:32 lol I sort the target on growthrate 2010-11-29T07:34:38 statistically beter is defence and then attack.. 2010-11-29T07:34:42 this seemed to be much better 2010-11-29T07:38:38 hmmm new mapset 2010-11-29T07:38:44 there are now 150 maps 2010-11-29T07:38:49 http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1185 2010-11-29T07:40:39 *** yasith has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T07:41:44 @rankings 2010-11-29T07:41:45 amstan_: Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3975), Slin-.-(3850), _iouri_(3810), _Astek_(3790), GreenTea(3788), george(3776), protocolocon(3769), jimrogerz(3767), Accoun(3763), Raschi(3719) 2010-11-29T07:42:03 @gamestats 2010-11-29T07:42:05 amstan_: gamestats = http://ai-contest.com/game_stats.php 2010-11-29T07:44:52 amstan_: is the second final mapset already active? 2010-11-29T07:45:29 http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1185#p7878 2010-11-29T07:47:15 *** Mathnerd314 has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T07:48:18 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3977), Slin-.-(3844), _iouri_(3806), _Astek_(3792), GreenTea(3785), george(3781), jimrogerz(3768), protocolocon(3765), Accoun(3765), Raschi(3715) 2010-11-29T07:51:38 http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=9093922 2010-11-29T07:51:51 Accoun capture planet with growth 1 and defence 68 ships.. 2010-11-29T07:54:23 http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=9090092 2010-11-29T07:55:27 *** narnach1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T07:55:27 *** narnach1 is now known as narnach_mb 2010-11-29T07:55:45 Again, sent 57 ships to capture neutral with growth 1 and defence 82 (!!!) and lose start planet.. 2010-11-29T07:56:29 oh man, he lost a ton lately 2010-11-29T07:57:49 indd 2010-11-29T07:59:37 new maps? 2010-11-29T08:01:19 ya 2010-11-29T08:01:39 wow, that must be why slin is losing so much all of a sudden 2010-11-29T08:02:44 oh lol: http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=9076007 2010-11-29T08:02:48 lost by 2 ships 2010-11-29T08:03:14 yep 2010-11-29T08:03:17 bit later with expansion 2010-11-29T08:08:51 mmm 49 wins, 100 losses against iouri 2010-11-29T08:08:56 *** sigh has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-11-29T08:14:55 mega1: almost 4000 elo ;) 2010-11-29T08:15:07 and quite a massive difference between you and #2 2010-11-29T08:15:14 yes, slin is slipping 2010-11-29T08:16:53 everyone but you is 2010-11-29T08:17:01 i'd be very surprised if mega1 was beaten now 2010-11-29T08:17:09 nah its not gonna happen 2010-11-29T08:17:37 mega1: congratulations :) i think it's almost certain 2010-11-29T08:17:39 the likelihood of superiority was 95% when I had a 100 point lead 2010-11-29T08:17:40 145 elo difference, that's incredible 2010-11-29T08:18:05 mega1: release ur source 2010-11-29T08:18:06 :D 2010-11-29T08:18:11 hehe, let the man clean 2010-11-29T08:18:11 j/k ;) 2010-11-29T08:18:24 I'm cleaning it up. But I have to work too. 2010-11-29T08:18:30 what's that? 2010-11-29T08:18:39 yea what work do you do? 2010-11-29T08:18:48 what is work is what i meant :P 2010-11-29T08:22:28 amstan_: when will the cutoff rise again? all the standardpackage bots filtered out 2010-11-29T08:22:46 cpu takers 2010-11-29T08:27:06 GreenTea: ahww just lost to you 2010-11-29T08:27:32 *** jaspervdj has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-11-29T08:28:13 i beat protocolocon 2010-11-29T08:28:43 i almost finished local testing against smloh 2010-11-29T08:28:52 *** delt0r has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T08:29:01 i can't believe i beat iouri 1 out of 3 2010-11-29T08:29:04 :D 2010-11-29T08:29:40 *** delt0r___ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2010-11-29T08:29:46 i beat him 2010-11-29T08:29:50 :) 2010-11-29T08:30:06 ye he's 3rd 2010-11-29T08:30:10 so thats pretty nice 2010-11-29T08:31:18 now i hope i face him atleast 3 times :P 2010-11-29T08:33:40 the rating system is really weird 2010-11-29T08:34:18 why 2010-11-29T08:36:33 im luse all tim in this new added maps 2010-11-29T08:36:38 im luse all time in this new added maps 2010-11-29T08:36:52 who generate it? 2010-11-29T08:36:58 it rely preselected 2010-11-29T08:37:00 the canadians 2010-11-29T08:37:01 :P 2010-11-29T08:37:03 it realy preselected 2010-11-29T08:42:19 davidd: ranking is really tough business 2010-11-29T08:42:52 it's easy to point out what results should be doing, but it's not always possible 2010-11-29T08:43:02 and when it is, it's often very hard to get right 2010-11-29T08:43:25 if everyone had the correct rating i would have as many wins as losses on average 2010-11-29T08:43:48 system hasn't stabilized yet 2010-11-29T08:47:03 *** antimatroid has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-11-29T08:47:04 " who generate it?. it rely preselected, the canadians" ))))) 2010-11-29T08:47:22 :P 2010-11-29T08:48:19 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3972), Slin-.-(3815), _iouri_(3785), _Astek_(3780), GreenTea(3771), jimrogerz(3770), george(3758), protocolocon(3747), Accoun(3723), Raschi(3709) 2010-11-29T08:49:02 *** antimatroid has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T08:52:34 who is from this canadiandian personaly generate it new map set? 2010-11-29T08:53:01 need be time to preselect maps with last bots versions? 2010-11-29T08:53:27 davidd: also ratings depend on a "ranking" that exists... which it probably doest't quite. 2010-11-29T08:54:00 for example there are probably cases where A beats B and B beats C --but C beats A 2010-11-29T08:54:14 so whats the proper ranking of A,B and C? 2010-11-29T08:55:03 Accoun: don't tell me to fuck off in russian please, that's rude 2010-11-29T08:56:51 delt0r: their winrates 2010-11-29T08:56:59 winratio 2010-11-29T08:57:48 it always comes down to something somewhat arbitrary... basically a strict ordering doesn't really exist 2010-11-29T08:57:53 *** krokokrusa has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T08:58:10 delt0r: well it does, if everyone faces everyone on each map 2010-11-29T08:58:17 but that's unfeasable 2010-11-29T08:58:36 indeed 2010-11-29T08:59:19 wait... are you saying a ording does exist? because its also the case that A beats B ... etc on *every* map 2010-11-29T08:59:30 ie it does not... 2010-11-29T09:00:03 in fact any top bot can beet any top bot on same map 2010-11-29T09:00:29 if everyone faces everyone on each map and you compute win/loss ratio there will appear an ordering 2010-11-29T09:00:46 so, new maps were added 2010-11-29T09:00:55 in the middle of finals 2010-11-29T09:01:11 no any reson generate 75 maps and leter 75 ozer maps insted of 999 maps izerwisw than chiting 2010-11-29T09:01:14 Error323: not necessarily... you have an ordering, but it may not have anything do with who tends to beat who 2010-11-29T09:01:18 no any reson generate 75 maps and leter 75 ozer maps insted of 999 maps izerwise than chiting 2010-11-29T09:01:26 folks have done real math on this you know 2010-11-29T09:02:13 adding new maps in the middle certainly is not fair 2010-11-29T09:02:14 true, but I think it'll give a pretty good picture 2010-11-29T09:02:43 Thats the idea of bays elo as well... but with less games is the idea... again from maths 2010-11-29T09:02:44 i got a second win against iouri 2010-11-29T09:02:47 not that I care that much with my position in the rankings :) 2010-11-29T09:03:21 likelihood of superiority: http://pastebin.com/1auJh2zs 2010-11-29T09:03:27 it's not unfair 2010-11-29T09:03:35 krokokrusa: its from the map generator... so what? I would have done it with a random map for *every* game... thats how i was testing my bot... that never got entered 2010-11-29T09:03:44 unfortunatly 2010-11-29T09:03:46 ok, here is an example 2010-11-29T09:03:50 you can argue about it being not desirable for many reasons, but it is perfectly fair 2010-11-29T09:03:59 let's say there were two players A and B 2010-11-29T09:04:22 for the first 75 maps, player A were unlucky and got more games on draw maps 2010-11-29T09:04:27 than player B 2010-11-29T09:04:35 draw maps are just as likely with new maps 2010-11-29T09:04:44 meaning he didn't have a chance to win points 2010-11-29T09:04:46 so the distribution is the same 2010-11-29T09:04:59 then by COINCIDENCE, new 75 maps don't have draw maps at all 2010-11-29T09:05:04 it's random generator after all 2010-11-29T09:05:10 ie they have the same probablity of getting draws now as they did 2010-11-29T09:05:21 with slightly less variance 2010-11-29T09:05:30 so, after 2nd bunch of maps are added, player B has advantage 2010-11-29T09:05:44 krokokrusa: and you could get hit by a metor --- 2010-11-29T09:05:49 same probability 2010-11-29T09:05:50 lol 2010-11-29T09:06:02 but for 1st 75 maps, then haven't got same number of draw maps 2010-11-29T09:06:05 the more maps, the more accurate the true distribution 2010-11-29T09:06:11 what really needs to happen is like 10 different unofficial tournaments run later with the bots 2010-11-29T09:06:16 and try to work out what works best 2010-11-29T09:06:28 delt0r, funny, but formally A and B are not in the same position 2010-11-29T09:06:34 but the situation ur describing is very extraordinary 2010-11-29T09:06:35 i think a few bots should be entered into them that are identical too, and compare the differences in those bots rankings 2010-11-29T09:06:48 i prefer everyone versus everyone at every map. count points and rank with them. 2010-11-29T09:06:49 krokokrusa: really nothing has changed 2010-11-29T09:06:51 Error323: it's not extraordinary, it's certain 2010-11-29T09:06:59 for some bots A and B from the top 2010-11-29T09:07:03 rebidus_: so would i, if it were at all feasible 2010-11-29T09:07:14 rabidus_: that's unfeasable, way too many games 2010-11-29T09:07:20 only 1200000000 2010-11-29T09:07:26 not its not...LOOK at how many draws there are... tehy are common enought that nothinng effecily changed... 2010-11-29T09:07:26 and inefficient 2010-11-29T09:07:26 :P 2010-11-29T09:07:35 no point having top 50 play bottom 2000 on all maps 2010-11-29T09:07:36 the first 75 maps are *not* draw free 2010-11-29T09:07:38 that's just a waste 2010-11-29T09:08:00 delt0r, ok 2nd attempt 2010-11-29T09:08:32 if we have 2 almost ideal bots 2010-11-29T09:08:45 krokokrusa: you would have more luck complaing about cosmic rays and non ECC ram 2010-11-29T09:08:49 then even 1 draw map more gonna give advantage to one of them 2010-11-29T09:09:22 i don't think it causes many issues by adding more maps 2010-11-29T09:09:24 i'm not to sure 2010-11-29T09:09:27 75 is no a big number 2010-11-29T09:09:30 mega1: so if i understand correctly your strongest opponent is iouri 2010-11-29T09:09:40 i's possible to have 10 draw maps in the 1st set, and 0 in the 2nd 2010-11-29T09:09:49 much higher probability than a meteor 2010-11-29T09:09:50 they are playing enough games that one does not change the ranking significanly... also tahts the point of the bays elo scoring... to be less sensitive to a single loss/win 2010-11-29T09:09:57 Error323: no, it's Slin, of course 2010-11-29T09:10:12 99.2% vs 99.8% 2010-11-29T09:10:16 lmao oops 2010-11-29T09:10:20 yea :P 2010-11-29T09:10:35 he lost 5 out of his last 7 games :P 2010-11-29T09:10:59 krokokrusa: your basically arguing that you are so similar to everyone that stochastic effects matter. In which case more maps is better *even if added later* 2010-11-29T09:11:19 delt0r: exactly 2010-11-29T09:11:21 i'm not arguing abouy my bot 2010-11-29T09:11:21 Like i said... should be random map gen for *every* game 2010-11-29T09:11:27 which is unlikely 2010-11-29T09:11:37 ok, 1 more example 2010-11-29T09:11:47 let's say we had 2 maps in the 1st set 2010-11-29T09:11:55 one draw map and one good map 2010-11-29T09:11:57 no don't 2010-11-29T09:11:59 i like the idea of a new map for every game 2010-11-29T09:12:02 in the future 2010-11-29T09:12:04 player A got draw map, player B - good one 2010-11-29T09:12:13 then we added 1 billion good maps 2010-11-29T09:12:23 by your logic, it doesn't change anything ? 2010-11-29T09:12:31 and it's not a computation problem, just generate them all before the contest 2010-11-29T09:12:31 of course that does 2010-11-29T09:12:43 but 75 vs 150 matters _MUCH_ less 2010-11-29T09:12:44 but it's similar to the current situation 2010-11-29T09:12:48 then 2 vs a billlion 2010-11-29T09:12:51 bu probabilities are smaller 2010-11-29T09:12:57 krokokrusa: still arguing that stocastic effect matter....if it does your not really better anyway... and adding more maps makes it more accurate. You can prove this 2010-11-29T09:12:57 krokokrusa: way smaller 2010-11-29T09:13:00 smaller but not zero 2010-11-29T09:13:04 not zero :) 2010-11-29T09:13:11 they never are 2010-11-29T09:13:20 but nobody calculated 2010-11-29T09:13:29 again watch out for meteorites... or cosimic rays 2010-11-29T09:13:31 you're just assuming that everything is OK 2010-11-29T09:13:42 no i'm not 2010-11-29T09:13:43 krokokrusa: run the numbers yourself... 2010-11-29T09:13:45 delt0r: prove that it's same as a meteor 2010-11-29T09:13:47 its easy to do 2010-11-29T09:13:59 i saw a meteor on new years actually 2010-11-29T09:14:03 at like 3am, it was amazing 2010-11-29T09:14:08 and if you can't then well i won't convince you either way 2010-11-29T09:14:15 *** tapwater has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T09:14:22 earlier that night was the best lightning storm of my life, the whole sky was lighting up for multiple strikes at a time 2010-11-29T09:14:35 all at a 3 day music festival, so i was in a state making it all that much better 2010-11-29T09:15:15 delt0r: do you agree, that it would be more fair to generate 10000 maps right from the beginning ? 2010-11-29T09:15:18 at first i thought it was a flare, as it came out from the horizon, but it didn't stop going up till it dissapeared into space, it was big and orange 2010-11-29T09:15:28 delt0r: doesn't matter HOW MUCH more fair 2010-11-29T09:15:34 krokokrusa: it really won't make any difference.... 2010-11-29T09:15:41 the top ten will be the same 2010-11-29T09:15:47 and i don't really care about the rest 2010-11-29T09:15:54 try it 2010-11-29T09:16:09 you can already download others bots now 2010-11-29T09:16:49 but this OMG they added a map 2010-11-29T09:16:53 is silly 2010-11-29T09:17:25 it's not for some distribution of draw maps in 1st and 2nd bunch 2010-11-29T09:17:30 and map generator is random 2010-11-29T09:17:33 *** jaspervdj has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T09:17:34 so anything can happen 2010-11-29T09:17:50 with the amount of noise in rankings already 2010-11-29T09:17:51 you need to revise the concept of random :P 2010-11-29T09:17:55 i think it really doesn't matter 2010-11-29T09:18:01 the more maps the better I think 2010-11-29T09:18:05 agree 2010-11-29T09:18:11 i want a new map for every game in the future 2010-11-29T09:18:16 krokokrusa: forget it --just keep grinding your axe 2010-11-29T09:18:25 more maps -> more accurate distribution 2010-11-29T09:18:26 *** delt0r has left #aichallenge ("Leaving") 2010-11-29T09:19:29 we had this discussion before and this is where we arrived 2010-11-29T09:19:32 delt0r_: I agree with you, my only problem is that nobody provides ay numbers behind that 2010-11-29T09:19:46 maybe I'll do the math myself, maybe not 2010-11-29T09:20:06 I certainly would have if I were in the top-20 :) 2010-11-29T09:20:37 *** drodil has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2010-11-29T09:21:06 maybe it's informative enough to plot scores from experiments 2010-11-29T09:21:24 krokokrusa: i've found if i want something done for this, the best way to get it done is to do it myself 2010-11-29T09:21:38 there is lots to be done by a few doing it in their own time 2010-11-29T09:21:50 of course 2010-11-29T09:22:08 *** amstan_ is now known as amstan 2010-11-29T09:22:11 but trying to prove the point by hand waving and meteor examples is silly :) 2010-11-29T09:22:43 a lot of things are still being ironed out, but the most important thing is they are flexible about these things, rather than just blankly following past methods 2010-11-29T09:22:52 metaphor? :P 2010-11-29T09:28:25 the guy who wrote "learn you a haskell" is a champion 2010-11-29T09:30:46 what's a better "command line" thing for windows 2010-11-29T09:30:54 surely something better exists than the normal one 2010-11-29T09:31:02 cygwin ? 2010-11-29T09:32:21 i shall play 2010-11-29T09:32:57 i've decided to learn haskell 2010-11-29T09:36:00 *** Azrathud has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-11-29T09:37:03 *** Error323 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-11-29T09:39:26 *** Error323 has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T09:41:06 *** drodil has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T09:43:02 *** meneky_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T09:45:20 what bot has most destructive attack? 2010-11-29T09:45:33 mega1's? 2010-11-29T09:46:08 yeah mega1s 2010-11-29T09:46:14 the bot i submitted is fairly agressive 2010-11-29T09:46:28 it's hard to tell, it's easy to attack when having the advantage 2010-11-29T09:46:41 but my bot sucks too :P 2010-11-29T09:46:48 i didn't do very well with this game 2010-11-29T09:47:15 I have a version of my bot that values offense more than defense 2010-11-29T09:47:31 and it does very well against my official bot. 2010-11-29T09:47:34 mine isn't that bad, i value those equally 2010-11-29T09:48:01 but i will send fleets added at time 0 for offense, even if they arrive before their "move" completes 2010-11-29T09:48:20 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3974), Slin-.-(3804), _Astek_(3784), _iouri_(3779), GreenTea(3768), jimrogerz(3757), protocolocon(3746), george(3735), Accoun(3722), Raschi(3709) 2010-11-29T09:51:46 *** davidjliu has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T09:52:06 nearly 200 elo diff omg 2010-11-29T10:00:21 all canadian famaly names begin from "J" ? 2010-11-29T10:00:56 *** mega1 has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-11-29T10:01:18 *** mega1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T10:02:03 * mega1 learns the dangers of ^R kill 2010-11-29T10:03:08 *** rebelxt_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T10:04:20 *** Error323 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-11-29T10:05:24 *** Error323 has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T10:14:33 *** perror has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T10:15:20 *** mceier has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T10:16:50 *** JamesMG has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T10:22:23 the first twelve are from different countries 2010-11-29T10:24:25 international galctic battle 2010-11-29T10:24:57 :) 2010-11-29T10:25:29 good war! 2010-11-29T10:25:59 the pesky americans ruin everything! 2010-11-29T10:26:25 lol 2010-11-29T10:28:56 why im paring with 101 place? 2010-11-29T10:29:16 Accoun: you don't get all matches against close bots 2010-11-29T10:29:31 while i'm not quite as high as you, i think i had a game with someone in the 500s before 2010-11-29T10:30:29 need to ignore antimatroid 2010-11-29T10:30:35 lol 2010-11-29T10:30:44 no any good post from it 2010-11-29T10:31:23 you're going to end up with no one unignored 2010-11-29T10:31:35 *** amstan sets mode: +o antimatroid 2010-11-29T10:31:38 have fun 2010-11-29T10:31:50 *** antimatroid was kicked by antimatroid (antimatroid) 2010-11-29T10:31:58 *** antimatroid has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T10:32:00 wtf? lol 2010-11-29T10:32:00 im ignored canadian orgnizers and some useles nicks 2010-11-29T10:32:01 did i do that right? 2010-11-29T10:32:03 :P 2010-11-29T10:32:08 antimatroid: nope, totally failed 2010-11-29T10:32:13 antimatroid: give +o to Accoun - that would be fun 2010-11-29T10:32:46 give him +o if he wins 2010-11-29T10:32:51 krokokrusa: world war irc 2010-11-29T10:33:28 will it be 213.x.x.x that wins???? 2010-11-29T10:37:28 *** rebelxt_ has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-11-29T10:40:34 *** krokokrusa has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2010-11-29T10:45:06 @rankings 2010-11-29T10:45:08 pgpaskar: Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3960), Slin-.-(3795), _iouri_(3774), _Astek_(3772), GreenTea(3757), protocolocon(3748), jimrogerz(3746), george(3734), Accoun(3716), Raschi(3696) 2010-11-29T10:45:14 .___________________. 2010-11-29T10:45:17 i got scared yesterday 2010-11-29T10:45:19 accoun was 2 2010-11-29T10:48:19 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3960), Slin-.-(3795), _iouri_(3774), _Astek_(3772), GreenTea(3757), protocolocon(3748), jimrogerz(3746), george(3734), Accoun(3716), Raschi(3696) 2010-11-29T10:53:22 pgpaskar> u hate me? 2010-11-29T10:55:00 pgpaskar> http://www.library.flawlesslogic.com/massrape.htm ??? 2010-11-29T10:56:17 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T10:57:26 *** narnach_mb has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2010-11-29T10:59:16 *** superflit has quit IRC (Quit: superflit) 2010-11-29T10:59:26 *** superflit has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T11:01:55 what? 2010-11-29T11:01:59 pgpaskar> u hate me? 2010-11-29T11:02:04 no 2010-11-29T11:02:23 i got scared yesterday 2010-11-29T11:02:23 accoun was 2 2010-11-29T11:02:52 im be 2nd on TCP 2010-11-29T11:03:14 i thought iouri was second on tcp at the end? 2010-11-29T11:03:22 not 2010-11-29T11:03:32 im be 2nd last time 2010-11-29T11:03:38 with 133+ games 2010-11-29T11:03:42 nice 2010-11-29T11:03:58 before it im be 3nd with 333+ games 2010-11-29T11:07:02 *** Appleman1234 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2010-11-29T11:07:33 *** Appleman1234 has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T11:11:31 *** rebelxt has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T11:14:00 bhasker: yo 2010-11-29T11:15:20 *** Utkarsh has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-11-29T11:15:39 *** Utkarsh has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T11:17:19 *** p4p4 has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T11:21:45 my first annoyance with haskell is that types start with capitals 2010-11-29T11:21:56 that's a whole extra key push damnit! where's the elegance in that 2010-11-29T11:22:34 * antimatroid has the weirdest annoyances with languages :) 2010-11-29T11:35:17 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Quit: bhasker) 2010-11-29T11:35:52 *** nothingelsematte has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T11:40:12 *** nothingelsematte has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2010-11-29T11:46:08 Groovy is the loneliest language, it only got one player and it's a starter pack bot 2010-11-29T11:46:10 http://ai-contest.com/language_profile.php?lang=Groovy 2010-11-29T11:47:29 lol http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1185#p7905 2010-11-29T11:48:20 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3962), Slin-.-(3787), _iouri_(3771), _Astek_(3763), GreenTea(3759), protocolocon(3747), jimrogerz(3745), george(3734), Accoun(3714), Raschi(3686) 2010-11-29T11:49:19 in all canado no any normal mmathematician? 2010-11-29T11:49:27 *** superflit has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T11:50:03 russian scooll boys smarter Canadian teachers 2010-11-29T11:54:08 Accoun: you seem to think you're pretty much the smartest guy in the world 2010-11-29T11:54:18 ^ 2010-11-29T11:54:33 someone in this channel is a fat troll 2010-11-29T11:54:50 ^_^ 2010-11-29T11:55:11 very very fat 2010-11-29T11:55:20 .. 2010-11-29T11:59:22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29 2010-11-29T12:00:34 antimatroid> im smart like antimatroid*16 2010-11-29T12:00:54 antimatroid> im smart like antimatroid*256 , like that 2010-11-29T12:01:19 lol you're so funny 2010-11-29T12:01:20 ... lol, keep going... 2010-11-29T12:01:22 this is why i cant hate you 2010-11-29T12:01:51 pgpaskar> why u hate you? 2010-11-29T12:02:00 haha 2010-11-29T12:02:03 pgpaskar> u a from germany? 2010-11-29T12:02:15 Accoun: did you just call pgpaskar an emo? 2010-11-29T12:02:39 * Accoun antimatroid now ignored 2010-11-29T12:04:06 :) 2010-11-29T12:04:55 Accoun, you are funny indeed ;-) 2010-11-29T12:05:49 * antimatroid wonders what accoun actually does 2010-11-29T12:08:01 pgpaskar> u a from canada? 2010-11-29T12:08:14 pgpaskar is forum admin 2010-11-29T12:10:03 he's a grad student in manufacturing engineering 2010-11-29T12:10:05 can't be that smart 2010-11-29T12:10:30 oh was, he's 33 2010-11-29T12:12:50 jeff.cameron != janzert 2010-11-29T12:13:26 but janzert make strange antions 2010-11-29T12:15:22 Once I reached the 2nd place he immediately added card 2010-11-29T12:15:49 *** mceier has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2010-11-29T12:16:11 ah, he also thinks the world revolves around him also :) 2010-11-29T12:16:31 Once I reached the 2nd place he immediately added maps 2010-11-29T12:16:44 *** mceier has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T12:17:33 and rankings broken by it 2010-11-29T12:18:49 and he cant make well cut off system 2010-11-29T12:19:16 just for your information, i ran a local test of my bot vs 7 other open sourced bots (iouri's, antimatroid's, medrimonia's, etc) on first set and second set of maps, and did not see any abnormal swings in the results 2010-11-29T12:19:46 rebelxt> u dont run my boot 2010-11-29T12:19:49 rebelxt> u dont run my bot 2010-11-29T12:19:55 then release it 2010-11-29T12:20:03 i get to speak not to him don't i, ehe 2010-11-29T12:20:17 Accoun: no, i don't have your code.. open source it, and i can check how it performs on both sets of maps against others 2010-11-29T12:20:50 rebelxt> after fitnal result publications 2010-11-29T12:20:56 rebelxt> after final result publications 2010-11-29T12:21:06 Accoun: seriously your being a stupid moron now and you gotta stop whining, no one is screwing you or anyone else... 2010-11-29T12:21:18 Error323: i think we both got the ignore hammer :) 2010-11-29T12:21:28 ow and pull your sentences through a parser when before you hit enter. 2010-11-29T12:21:52 because it doesn't make any sense on multiple levels 2010-11-29T12:23:14 Error323: we are both doing better now.. it was a rough start yesterday ;) 2010-11-29T12:23:48 rebelxt: indeed! though i'm in a losing streak atm hehe 2010-11-29T12:23:55 but yeah climbing still overall :) 2010-11-29T12:24:50 Error323: your bot vs my bot test gave almost the same result on 2nd set of maps vs 1st set. good sign 2010-11-29T12:25:17 yeah i also ran some tests, its just as expected 2010-11-29T12:25:23 give or take some noise 2010-11-29T12:25:30 yeah 2010-11-29T12:26:37 antimatroid: your bot is also very consistent on 2nd set of maps.. you got 40-2-33 on 2nd set, and 40-0-35 on first set against mine 2010-11-29T12:28:09 rebelxt> try to generate 75 maps by self 2010-11-29T12:28:25 rebelxt> and check result 2010-11-29T12:28:34 rebelxt: :) 2010-11-29T12:28:53 my bot is a complete failure to be honest, the tree is completely broken 2010-11-29T12:29:08 hopefully i can spit something better out for the next contest 2010-11-29T12:29:08 Accoun: did that many times.. i had 500 maps generated by myself and got nearly the same result against others 2010-11-29T12:29:36 antimatroid: that's a great way to fail ;-) 2010-11-29T12:30:03 and need normal cut off system 2010-11-29T12:30:24 what's a "normal cut off system"? 2010-11-29T12:30:37 not that strange like actualy 2010-11-29T12:30:43 Accoun: just trying to prove to you that there is no conspiracy at all. you should stop thinking everyone is trying to make you lose this contest. make some friends instead of enemies! 2010-11-29T12:31:05 so like.. i had enough 2010-11-29T12:31:08 #ban Accoun 2010-11-29T12:31:12 @ban Accoun 2010-11-29T12:31:13 amstan: No! 2010-11-29T12:31:14 amstan: no 2010-11-29T12:31:14 darn! 2010-11-29T12:31:24 rebelxt> last year canadian chity hard 2010-11-29T12:31:25 contestbot: you're annoying 2010-11-29T12:31:27 amstan: No! 2010-11-29T12:31:31 contestbot: yes 2010-11-29T12:31:31 amstan: User error -- Replace user. 2010-11-29T12:31:38 *** Appleman1234 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-11-29T12:31:45 antimatroid: why not? 2010-11-29T12:31:57 imo yes 2010-11-29T12:32:00 i dunno, it's slightly annoying, i don't think it's that bad 2010-11-29T12:32:20 he's spamming the forum about it 2010-11-29T12:32:21 and here 2010-11-29T12:32:26 and insulting ppl 2010-11-29T12:32:34 its like talking to a brick wall 2010-11-29T12:32:37 i'm not at all insulted, it's the internet 2010-11-29T12:32:43 yeah, the crying is fine, but he's insulting 2010-11-29T12:32:48 me neither, but still 2010-11-29T12:32:55 so who's insulted? :P 2010-11-29T12:32:59 the crying is really annoying 2010-11-29T12:33:15 i'm not either, but i would hate to ruin the high standards of this channels, it was so nice till he came 2010-11-29T12:33:21 for a grown up man -,- 2010-11-29T12:34:24 he's not just constantly spamming unbearable amounts, i'm a big fan of people saying what they want, wherever 2010-11-29T12:34:27 but do what you want :) 2010-11-29T12:34:41 I mean comeon, first the guy spams about too little maps and how they are manually selected (lol, just... lol) 2010-11-29T12:34:56 and then there are more generated and he's whining about "chiting" canadians 2010-11-29T12:34:58 antimatroid: he can say whatever, but he's literarly spamming, sending the same senseless messages over 10 times 2010-11-29T12:34:58 yeah, he wont be happy no matter what, we established that ages ago 2010-11-29T12:35:01 which is insulting btw 2010-11-29T12:35:17 *** Appleman1234 has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T12:35:25 Accoun: yes i am from canada 2010-11-29T12:35:48 pgpaskar> i hate all canadian now 2010-11-29T12:36:16 Accoun: your last warning 2010-11-29T12:36:17 That's unfortunate 2010-11-29T12:36:24 I'm sorry that you have such a narrow view of the world. 2010-11-29T12:36:26 its so absurd that you'd think he's joking 2010-11-29T12:36:29 You angry, angry little man 2010-11-29T12:36:32 but he's not 2010-11-29T12:36:44 *** nullkuhl has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T12:36:52 http://i.imgur.com/MTqzn.png 2010-11-29T12:36:59 These are so shockingly accurate..... 2010-11-29T12:37:02 reddit knows me. 2010-11-29T12:37:15 pgpaskar: +1 2010-11-29T12:37:16 i saw a worse one before 2010-11-29T12:37:22 rebelxt> im ? 2010-11-29T12:37:24 some of the batchelor frogs 2010-11-29T12:37:27 are SO scary 2010-11-29T12:37:50 yeah, it was one of those 2010-11-29T12:37:57 the one about shifting stuff at day and night 2010-11-29T12:37:57 loool 2010-11-29T12:38:26 yes 2010-11-29T12:38:29 that one jesus 2010-11-29T12:38:35 i read that while moving my books off my bed 2010-11-29T12:38:38 it was terrifying 2010-11-29T12:38:39 *** Appleman1234 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-11-29T12:39:23 *** Appleman1234 has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T12:39:38 http://i.imgur.com/GBGAY.gif 2010-11-29T12:39:40 * pgpaskar stares 2010-11-29T12:39:51 and this is what i do inbetween classes now--the premier reddit addiction experience 2010-11-29T12:39:59 hahaha 2010-11-29T12:40:06 oh that's bad 2010-11-29T12:40:17 all i do is hit F5 2010-11-29T12:40:27 which has got to change :P 2010-11-29T12:40:31 pgpaskar: if you think that's bad, how about constantly checking r/minecraft? 2010-11-29T12:40:56 http://i.imgur.com/9MIbv.jpg 2010-11-29T12:41:02 that was the image 2010-11-29T12:41:17 duno never played minecraft 2010-11-29T12:42:26 i lost to bocsi on the main site, no surprises there 2010-11-29T12:42:43 gave me a nice little boost in elo though 2010-11-29T12:42:47 mega1: thanks :) 2010-11-29T12:43:26 hehe. my bot is on a losing streak again /sigh 2010-11-29T12:44:35 mine too :( 2010-11-29T12:44:44 how come they show up in streaks :P 2010-11-29T12:44:55 it's chitting 2010-11-29T12:44:56 its a conspiracy I tell you 2010-11-29T12:44:59 xD 2010-11-29T12:45:02 yeah losses come 5-6 in a row for me 2010-11-29T12:45:13 where can we check latest results ? 2010-11-29T12:45:24 on your profile page 2010-11-29T12:46:58 http://i.imgur.com/Z7iQI.png reddit is bad for my health. my chest hurts 2010-11-29T12:47:10 when is the next ai contest ? :D 2010-11-29T12:47:45 don't speak about that nullkuhl... I want my life back!!!! 2010-11-29T12:47:47 =P 2010-11-29T12:48:21 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3964), Slin-.-(3792), _iouri_(3782), _Astek_(3775), GreenTea(3755), george(3750), jimrogerz(3749), protocolocon(3742), Accoun(3727), Raschi(3696) 2010-11-29T12:48:23 i couldnt do except 2 submissions in this contest :( 2010-11-29T12:48:38 medrimonia3: seriously any idea when ? 2010-11-29T12:49:15 medrimonia3: don't even think of getting it back. well, maybe you can have your life back for as many days as your bot's ranking ;-) 2010-11-29T12:49:35 *** Palmik has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-11-29T12:50:00 Hum I don't have any idea, but I think they'll be telling something about that during the next days 2010-11-29T12:50:57 =) 2010-11-29T12:51:07 nullkuhl: as far as i know it's undecided 2010-11-29T12:51:14 but likely some time in the next 6 months or so 2010-11-29T12:51:14 tbh if it were now I'd start working on it right away lol 2010-11-29T12:51:17 rebelxt: In fact I'll never have my life back for more than a few days... I think I'm beginning to be addicted to AI 2010-11-29T12:51:23 but that's because i'm escaping my thesis a bit 2010-11-29T12:51:28 medrimonia3: me too 2010-11-29T12:51:36 although i'm getting pretty sick of minimax 2010-11-29T12:52:06 i started looking at arimaa before, then moved onto learning haskell :P i might combine them 2010-11-29T12:52:09 Yep I'm thinking about the arimaa bot, but it seems really pretty hard 2010-11-29T12:52:16 yeah, so many moves 2010-11-29T12:52:24 and less obvious goals than this 2010-11-29T12:52:29 well, incremental goals 2010-11-29T12:53:08 arimaa bot? 2010-11-29T12:53:15 look it up :P 2010-11-29T12:53:17 and join us 2010-11-29T12:53:23 Yep it seems really quite difficult 2010-11-29T12:53:26 janzert will enjoy the competition 2010-11-29T12:53:40 I'll take a break and study for my exams a little bit too^^ 2010-11-29T12:53:55 my exams already passed with 3 weeks left 2010-11-29T12:54:06 oh shit 2010-11-29T12:54:08 i got my results last week, there was a noticable reduction :P 2010-11-29T12:54:16 haha 2010-11-29T12:59:43 pff arimaa is insane lol 2010-11-29T13:00:04 alphabeta and heuristics all over again hehe 2010-11-29T13:10:06 17K branching factor 2010-11-29T13:10:40 pretty horrific 2010-11-29T13:10:44 :) 2010-11-29T13:10:47 it's a challenge 2010-11-29T13:10:52 oh ye 2010-11-29T13:10:53 that's for sure 2010-11-29T13:11:10 take a tea spoon of concrete then approach it 2010-11-29T13:11:23 it seems specificially designed to annoy ai programmers =) 2010-11-29T13:11:54 i think it was :P 2010-11-29T13:15:17 *** Accoun has quit IRC () 2010-11-29T13:20:03 *** choas has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T13:29:39 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T13:31:25 *** drodil has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2010-11-29T13:33:35 *** drodil has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T13:33:39 *** perror has quit IRC (Quit: Bye all !) 2010-11-29T13:45:15 *** Mistmanov has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T13:48:06 oh man, 6 losses in a row 2010-11-29T13:48:21 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3965), Slin-.-(3790), _iouri_(3771), _Astek_(3770), GreenTea(3756), george(3745), protocolocon(3739), Accoun(3736), jimrogerz(3734), Raschi(3690) 2010-11-29T13:50:45 7* 2010-11-29T13:52:24 *** Palmik has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T13:54:32 you tied my record from yesterday ;-) 2010-11-29T13:55:21 win Accoun again. hehe 2010-11-29T13:55:56 *** smloh1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T13:57:00 GreenTea: you are on a nice winning streak 2010-11-29T14:00:31 i've started my first file for an arimaa bot 2010-11-29T14:01:26 antimatroid: I had seven yesterday. I think I win... 2010-11-29T14:01:42 *** mceier has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2010-11-29T14:03:00 davidjliu: i made it up to 7 :) 2010-11-29T14:03:05 we're both equally retarded :) 2010-11-29T14:03:10 darn it. heh 2010-11-29T14:03:38 you can't even win that battle, sorry :P 2010-11-29T14:08:50 *** antimatroid has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2010-11-29T14:13:09 *** mceier has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T14:16:02 *** Naktibalda has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716]) 2010-11-29T14:19:00 antimatroid: I'm up to 15 =) (Rankings are still changing very fast) 2010-11-29T14:19:14 yeah no convergence yet 2010-11-29T14:19:39 11 games won over the fifteen last 2010-11-29T14:20:54 And I just won against iouri GreenTea and Slin 2010-11-29T14:21:06 My bot is really random 2010-11-29T14:22:03 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T14:22:35 morning 2010-11-29T14:22:46 good morning 2010-11-29T14:22:48 er... afternoon 2010-11-29T14:22:49 whatever 2010-11-29T14:22:56 evening 2010-11-29T14:22:59 good evening for me =P 2010-11-29T14:23:24 well its almost noon here 2010-11-29T14:23:28 11:23am 2010-11-29T14:23:32 20:20 2010-11-29T14:23:51 how is the weather in amstredam at this time of the year 2010-11-29T14:24:02 its freakin snowing here 2010-11-29T14:24:28 ouch 2010-11-29T14:24:33 a nice 14 deg C outside here 2010-11-29T14:24:34 :) 2010-11-29T14:25:53 -3 or sth here 2010-11-29T14:25:54 >_> 2010-11-29T14:27:07 even in Bordeaux it's beginning to be cold 2010-11-29T14:27:08 bhasker: we are on par 2010-11-29T14:27:14 yea i saw that 2010-11-29T14:27:28 i am 3 elo rating ahead of you :p 2010-11-29T14:27:56 urg. I want snow 2010-11-29T14:28:14 bhasker: just u w8 :P 2010-11-29T14:28:53 hehe 2010-11-29T14:28:59 david it doesn't snow where i live ^ 2010-11-29T14:29:08 though snow is just 4hrs way 2010-11-29T14:29:17 do you really like it when it snows? 2010-11-29T14:29:27 my experience with snow has usually been too cold and not fun ^ 2010-11-29T14:29:38 oh really like it 2010-11-29T14:29:39 good to spend a few days but not something i would like to live with ^ 2010-11-29T14:29:46 except when my heater is broken =) 2010-11-29T14:29:50 but its good again 2010-11-29T14:30:44 *** antimatroid has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T14:30:54 i ended my streak by beating dmj 2010-11-29T14:30:56 i'll take that 2010-11-29T14:32:02 morning everyone 2010-11-29T14:32:15 smloh1: morning, you're doing well 2010-11-29T14:32:31 yeah 2010-11-29T14:32:35 thanks, yeah, looks like my bot had a good night :) 2010-11-29T14:32:50 bhasker: I love snow, it's really the happiest weather for me 2010-11-29T14:32:53 mine is doing more like i expect (losing lots) 2010-11-29T14:32:54 mine did to, but its day went less good :P 2010-11-29T14:33:03 * antimatroid doesn't really get snow :( 2010-11-29T14:33:22 the mountain here does a few times each year, but not enough to snowboard or anything 2010-11-29T14:33:25 When you live somewhere where there's often snow, you get used to cold 2010-11-29T14:33:30 i like snow just won't like to live in a place where it snows 2010-11-29T14:33:35 i like visiting places with snow 2010-11-29T14:33:37 for skiing! 2010-11-29T14:34:02 snowboarding! 2010-11-29T14:34:05 =) 2010-11-29T14:34:21 i would love to go on a proper snowboarding trip 2010-11-29T14:34:24 It's sure that if you live high in the mountain, you'll hardly have an internet connection 2010-11-29T14:34:28 i went for 1 day a few years ago, was hardly satisfying 2010-11-29T14:34:42 i used to skate quite a lot, haven't found much time for it the last few years 2010-11-29T14:34:44 Snowboarding is so fun, but you really have to practice 2010-11-29T14:34:56 snowboarding was surprisingly not much like it 2010-11-29T14:35:02 it's all in the hips to turn on a snowboard 2010-11-29T14:35:09 5 elo diff now E323:p 2010-11-29T14:35:20 Because the first few days, you're more falling than snowboarding 2010-11-29T14:35:23 i was trying to turn with my feet at first 2010-11-29T14:35:23 bhasker: yeah, but i'll get past 2010-11-29T14:35:25 passed =) 2010-11-29T14:35:26 *** mceier has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2010-11-29T14:35:26 hehe 2010-11-29T14:35:27 :P 2010-11-29T14:35:42 wow that's a huge elo gap between bocs and everyone else 2010-11-29T14:35:44 antimatroid: I know that^^ It was the same for me 2010-11-29T14:35:53 yeah bocs is dominating 2010-11-29T14:36:00 and the true winner 2010-11-29T14:36:03 yep 2010-11-29T14:36:06 without a doubt 2010-11-29T14:36:08 but there's another big elo step from the top 9 2010-11-29T14:36:13 well, accoun will doubt 2010-11-29T14:36:25 accoun is a moron 2010-11-29T14:36:30 no offense ofc ^_^ 2010-11-29T14:36:50 well he has a good bot 2010-11-29T14:36:55 and he taught us some new words 2010-11-29T14:36:56 true 2010-11-29T14:37:31 he gives me more fuel to win the next tournament 2010-11-29T14:37:33 to make sure he doesn't 2010-11-29T14:37:35 :) 2010-11-29T14:37:52 although bocsi may have us all again 2010-11-29T14:37:52 yea i will do muuuch better next one =) 2010-11-29T14:38:03 i did worse in this than tron 2010-11-29T14:38:11 I will start better next time 2010-11-29T14:38:15 well, technically no, but my tron bot was stronger 2010-11-29T14:38:32 But I don't know if I'll end better =P 2010-11-29T14:40:35 i can't find any page anywhere explaining specifics required for arimaa bots :\ 2010-11-29T14:40:44 I don't know at all how I'll end in this one 2010-11-29T14:41:03 like if bots are run for a whole game or per turn and what format input looks like :\ 2010-11-29T14:41:32 isn't there a starter package antimatroid? 2010-11-29T14:42:15 not that i've found 2010-11-29T14:42:19 http://arimaa.com/arimaa/ 2010-11-29T14:42:22 i don't like other people's code :P 2010-11-29T14:42:35 sample java and sample C C# C++ 2010-11-29T14:43:13 a lot of things to download there 2010-11-29T14:43:13 yeah, i'm looking at some of the c ones, the code is horrible :P 2010-11-29T14:44:30 i don't rrlly like that game 2010-11-29T14:44:32 =) 2010-11-29T14:44:44 i think it looks cool 2010-11-29T14:44:44 sth like planetwars is much cooler. 2010-11-29T14:45:11 i'll prod it for a little bit and see where i get 2010-11-29T14:46:09 is arimaa just chess on steroids? seems like the game was designed to be harder for computers to compete with humans 2010-11-29T14:46:27 the game was designed for that 2010-11-29T14:46:46 bhasker: lol 1 elo, we are both climbing =) 2010-11-29T14:46:54 :D 2010-11-29T14:46:59 rebelxt: lol that's exactly what i said 2010-11-29T14:48:10 Error323 and bhasker: and i'm heading towards you guys. "red army" invaded my bots home page lol 2010-11-29T14:48:21 lol 2010-11-29T14:48:22 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3972), Slin-.-(3788), _Astek_(3768), _iouri_(3767), GreenTea(3756), george(3745), protocolocon(3740), jimrogerz(3739), Accoun(3734), Raschi(3685) 2010-11-29T14:48:33 oh bhasker, you got me =P 2010-11-29T14:48:38 bhasker: thanks for ending medrimonia's streak ;) 2010-11-29T14:48:40 =] 2010-11-29T14:48:44 ah nice 2010-11-29T14:48:48 that should help me climb 2010-11-29T14:48:54 bye bye e323 2010-11-29T14:48:56 going up 2010-11-29T14:49:10 9*&%(*&@#$% 2010-11-29T14:49:11 medrimonia win might be worse 5 ELO points ;-) 2010-11-29T14:49:35 likely 3 though since you got many games in 2010-11-29T14:50:50 Error323: there are 22 java users ranked higher than you... 2010-11-29T14:51:36 Woot I'm the #1 python user atm! 2010-11-29T14:51:56 smloh1: lol, yeah I cry myself to sleep at night over that fact :P 2010-11-29T14:52:00 But it won't last... =P 2010-11-29T14:52:30 from the looks of it they run the bot for each turn, not each game 2010-11-29T14:52:53 Error323: that's what you get for using java 2010-11-29T14:52:56 that's even harder for the bot^^ 2010-11-29T14:53:00 i have no pitty for you :) 2010-11-29T14:53:39 i mostly use c++ like it's c with classes 2010-11-29T14:53:54 well, c with structs, as i follow the communist approach to programming 2010-11-29T14:53:58 everything is public 2010-11-29T14:54:09 structs with functions* 2010-11-29T14:54:21 yaay Slin to my rescue! 2010-11-29T14:54:42 i like this approach antimatroid even though it's against usual OOP rules ;) 2010-11-29T14:55:15 i've never been one for rules anyway ;) 2010-11-29T14:55:28 I losted 10 points against you bhasker^^ 2010-11-29T14:55:46 (*&@(* another loss 2010-11-29T14:55:48 bha 2010-11-29T14:56:12 *** fgump has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T14:56:17 :D 2010-11-29T14:56:35 c-- was fun if anyone used it 2010-11-29T14:57:08 i was 61th this morning 2010-11-29T14:57:26 c--? there was really such a language? 2010-11-29T14:57:34 communist approach to programming.. need to remember that 2010-11-29T14:57:52 Error323: hehe i got 49 this morning and then my bot checked out ;-) needs a pep talk 2010-11-29T14:58:09 Mistmanov: how could you possibly forget? :P 2010-11-29T14:58:12 lol 2010-11-29T14:58:16 smloh1: c-- was great. best way to mix c code with assembler. super fast of course for algorithms 2010-11-29T14:58:50 rebelxt: interesting. you also talk about it in the past tense... 2010-11-29T14:59:06 smloh1: it's the only way! 2010-11-29T14:59:13 it was* :P 2010-11-29T14:59:30 lol 2010-11-29T14:59:48 i failed there :( 2010-11-29T14:59:49 i have not used it in 15 years at least... dunno if the language is still alive 2010-11-29T15:00:09 yikes, i'd never programmed before 2007 2010-11-29T15:00:18 apparently it is: http://www.cminusminus.org/ 2010-11-29T15:00:48 yep still alive! 2010-11-29T15:00:48 I've never programmed before... sept 2009^^ 2010-11-29T15:01:12 wow good work, medimonia! 2010-11-29T15:01:21 very decent 2010-11-29T15:01:44 and you didn't write your bot in java :) 2010-11-29T15:01:46 Thanks =) 2010-11-29T15:01:59 * antimatroid irrationally hates java 2010-11-29T15:01:59 Nop I still haven't learn java 2010-11-29T15:02:04 don't, ever 2010-11-29T15:02:26 Only python last year and a little bit of c this year 2010-11-29T15:02:33 I'll have to learn java 2010-11-29T15:02:38 c++ is wonderful if you're willing to write lots 2010-11-29T15:02:42 antimatroid: java is "ok". best language for making money as a programmer at this time 2010-11-29T15:02:52 java is boring as hell 2010-11-29T15:02:57 and slow 2010-11-29T15:02:59 and annoying 2010-11-29T15:03:08 i'd rather cut my eyes out than work with java 2010-11-29T15:03:18 compared to dynamic languages, all static languages are annoying as hell ;) 2010-11-29T15:03:55 i just use it for programming competitions so i don't have to worry about deallocating stuff 2010-11-29T15:04:12 I'll have to do java to have my Licence 2010-11-29T15:04:34 it's not hard to delete stuff :P 2010-11-29T15:04:59 yeah i always used java on topcoder 2010-11-29T15:05:22 the only time i ever end up needing to delete anything is when i make a tree 2010-11-29T15:05:26 get down to the logic faster, worry less about implementation bugs 2010-11-29T15:05:36 even that probably wasn't needed for this tree 2010-11-29T15:05:51 surprisingly i don't really miss my pointer arithmetic 2010-11-29T15:06:25 vectors make my life so much easier 2010-11-29T15:06:43 and maps for acm problems 2010-11-29T15:07:00 I started in java, but then switched to c++ for speed as I had high hopes back then for minimax :p 2010-11-29T15:07:40 do like c++ better 2010-11-29T15:07:47 but java is cleaner 2010-11-29T15:07:57 syntax wise 2010-11-29T15:08:09 how much slower is it? 2010-11-29T15:08:41 *** antimatroid1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T15:08:41 *** antimatroid has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-11-29T15:09:00 groovy is a nice language but as slow as python.. it pretty much fixed all the problems with java.. closures, much cleaner shorter code 2010-11-29T15:09:17 java is not cleaner than c++ :P 2010-11-29T15:09:17 main string argh fuck you* 2010-11-29T15:09:17 :P 2010-11-29T15:09:17 that's what java is like 2010-11-29T15:09:28 c++ and java are the same damn thing as far as i'm concerned and if you guys think they're hugely different then you're crazy! 2010-11-29T15:09:35 java is normally "only" 2-3 times slower than c++ as far as i recall 2010-11-29T15:09:47 I read your text then checked to see if your nick was "fascist" 2010-11-29T15:09:52 i was wholey unimpressed 2010-11-29T15:09:54 heh 2010-11-29T15:10:15 lol 2010-11-29T15:10:21 foucist: you forgot to open with tag. you are not a real troll 2010-11-29T15:10:22 ;-) 2010-11-29T15:10:29 He opened with the troll tag. 2010-11-29T15:10:31 3 months ago 2010-11-29T15:10:34 ~lol~ 2010-11-29T15:10:35 ^ 2010-11-29T15:10:35 rebelxt: i believe you were just trolled again :P 2010-11-29T15:10:36 lol 2010-11-29T15:10:41 haha 2010-11-29T15:11:24 the itunes store is so slooooow 2010-11-29T15:11:30 this app needs a rewrite 2010-11-29T15:11:50 itunes store? :P 2010-11-29T15:12:00 *** mceier has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T15:12:21 java is annoying as hell , import com.sun.java.i.hate.you.stupid.language 2010-11-29T15:12:43 hahahah 2010-11-29T15:12:56 java is good 2010-11-29T15:13:04 I like java namespaces 2010-11-29T15:13:07 ixpect java exeptions 2010-11-29T15:13:08 they are very verbose and consistent 2010-11-29T15:13:19 byt 1c.ru beter than java 2010-11-29T15:13:23 but 1c.ru beter than java 2010-11-29T15:13:33 Sure it's tedious to write code forthe first time 2010-11-29T15:13:45 but you learn to appreciate they verbosity when you start dealing with bad code written years ago 2010-11-29T15:14:54 for verbosity/readability i like ruby.. for terseness, i also like ruby :P 2010-11-29T15:15:00 being efficient in java (on a large project) requires a decent IDE, imho.. for python i don't use any IDE at all 2010-11-29T15:15:41 it seems very weird to me to need an IDE to code 2010-11-29T15:17:21 ugh I keep losing bah bah bah 2010-11-29T15:17:22 foucist: current project at work is 7500 classes across all of the modules. impossible to navigate and re-factor without good IDE :-( 2010-11-29T15:17:50 yeah an IDE just speeds up work 2010-11-29T15:18:01 thats all :) 2010-11-29T15:19:13 yep 2010-11-29T15:19:27 *** FrankyRP has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-11-29T15:21:00 Mistmanov: damn ur stuck good 2010-11-29T15:21:05 uhuh 2010-11-29T15:21:08 never getting out :p 2010-11-29T15:21:20 Mistmanov: where are you at? 2010-11-29T15:21:21 so it seems 2010-11-29T15:21:26 116 2010-11-29T15:21:30 I got a game against oldman (~30) that I won, so I was hoping that I could get free.. 2010-11-29T15:21:31 but no luck 2010-11-29T15:21:46 perhaps tomorrow 2010-11-29T15:22:03 really, if they could just manually give me ~10 games against top 10 bots, I'd be really grateful ;p 2010-11-29T15:22:12 well so would I :P 2010-11-29T15:22:27 but ya gotta go through everone ^_^ 2010-11-29T15:22:31 =) 2010-11-29T15:22:55 still... the games will only run till wednesday? 2010-11-29T15:22:59 so we're already at half? 2010-11-29T15:23:03 Mistmanov: seems like you are moving.. when they start cutoffs, you should benefit from it since you would be getting many more games 2010-11-29T15:23:05 its weird i beat smloh1 nearly 50/50 2010-11-29T15:23:06 or did it start yesterday? 2010-11-29T15:23:31 * Mistmanov has lost all track of time 2010-11-29T15:23:37 lol 2010-11-29T15:23:49 Error323: i seem to be tuned well against the top bots 2010-11-29T15:24:08 i've been 2 for 2 vs both Slin-.- and iouri 2010-11-29T15:24:15 yeah i know i am aswell but just not getting there 2010-11-29T15:24:20 theres a massive barrier :P 2010-11-29T15:24:38 wondering when janzert starts lowering cutoff 2010-11-29T15:24:48 though ur bot is better smloh1 2010-11-29T15:24:51 but not that much 2010-11-29T15:25:18 like i said, i run that secret function, PrayForLuck()... 2010-11-29T15:25:36 52% vs 48% +) 2010-11-29T15:25:38 haha 2010-11-29T15:25:43 I think that once the cutoff is low enough (say... 125 ;)), they should also turn of the "you'll get more games agaisnt people in your neighbourhoud" thing -_- 2010-11-29T15:25:56 loool 2010-11-29T15:26:22 you'll still get selected a lot by them from lower bots then 2010-11-29T15:26:27 *** fgump has quit IRC (Quit: Ex-Chat) 2010-11-29T15:27:16 rebelxt: i wonder where the "standard bot" cluster is 2010-11-29T15:27:36 what do you mean by standard? 2010-11-29T15:27:46 those that are basically the starter package 2010-11-29T15:28:22 the gap is increasing e323 2010-11-29T15:28:29 heh, about to break the top 20, methinks 2010-11-29T15:28:31 smloh1: janzert was planning to exclude all starter pack submissions some time today as far as i understood 2010-11-29T15:29:04 *** nn has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T15:29:17 bhasker: yeah, i'm performing horrible atm 2010-11-29T15:29:35 i seem to be on a winning streak 2010-11-29T15:30:01 25 elo points behind rebel 2010-11-29T15:30:05 smloh1: I think janzert said that 3200 to lowest were a mixture of starterpackage bots and some other bots 2010-11-29T15:30:36 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T15:30:36 davidjliu: good luck! frankly i'm surprised my bot is ranked above you right now 2010-11-29T15:30:40 that's more real bots than I would've expected 2010-11-29T15:31:23 smloh1: thanks, I'm still recovering from a disastrous first day... heh 2010-11-29T15:31:37 or at least I hope I'm still recovering 2010-11-29T15:31:52 i'm slowly dropping 2010-11-29T15:32:01 i'm pretty sure i overshot my target 2010-11-29T15:32:18 I hope to end somewhere in top 50 2010-11-29T15:32:24 but i'm not really sure :S 2010-11-29T15:32:32 i would like top 30, but i doubt it for this game 2010-11-29T15:32:59 i hope to hit top 50 too lets see 2010-11-29T15:33:00 i wonder whether there is an element of clustering in the rankings 2010-11-29T15:33:14 since you play people in your "neighborhood" more 2010-11-29T15:33:16 ooh 1 more win 2010-11-29T15:33:20 smloh1: i bet there is 2010-11-29T15:33:21 i think there is yes 2010-11-29T15:33:25 then your ranking is dependent on how well they do disproportionately 2010-11-29T15:33:49 i've been saying for a good month or so that it's not independent of the order in which you win games 2010-11-29T15:33:55 but it's also the best method we currently have 2010-11-29T15:33:57 yey another loss :( 2010-11-29T15:34:01 so we sort of have to live with it 2010-11-29T15:34:05 smloh1: i was running the same bot on TCP server for a day sometimes under two different names, and sometimes they were not even close (i.e. within 50 ELO) after getting 400+ games.. 2010-11-29T15:34:27 yeah same here 2010-11-29T15:34:35 it was extremely unreliable 2010-11-29T15:34:36 5 elo below the best bot from india 2010-11-29T15:34:37 hmm 2010-11-29T15:34:41 will i beat it^ 2010-11-29T15:34:43 and lead me to upload wrong bots 2010-11-29T15:34:45 the question is whether it's "better" to wipe results with every new ranking cutoff 2010-11-29T15:34:46 so it seems like getting stuck in a neighborhood is a serious risk 2010-11-29T15:34:53 then you get rid of the inertia 2010-11-29T15:35:12 i think with enough games things should level out 2010-11-29T15:35:31 smloh1: yeah but then you don't take into account how top bots perform against lower rated ones. some may think it's not fair 2010-11-29T15:35:53 rebelxt: that's very true, you end up with very specialized bots as winners 2010-11-29T15:36:06 my bot is tuned to suck against lower rated bots for sure ;-) 2010-11-29T15:36:31 my bot should do reasonable well against crap bots i think 2010-11-29T15:36:42 except when it does kamakaze moves 2010-11-29T15:36:47 then it's open for anybody 2010-11-29T15:36:53 lol then you need to run PrayForLuck("Get into the top 20 asap!") 2010-11-29T15:36:58 finally another game against a top100 player.. 2010-11-29T15:37:02 one that totally sucks, but still 2010-11-29T15:37:03 ;) 2010-11-29T15:37:12 E323? 2010-11-29T15:37:16 wraah I hate my bot for doing stuff like this: http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=9185519 turn 69 @_#$% 2010-11-29T15:37:29 Mistmanov: die 2010-11-29T15:37:31 :P 2010-11-29T15:37:48 :) 2010-11-29T15:38:20 actually looking at the top 50 list i am not sure i will make it there 2010-11-29T15:38:25 Error323: you're one loss off me and davidjliu 2010-11-29T15:38:27 some of the bots on that list are better even on tcp 2010-11-29T15:38:42 indeed 2010-11-29T15:38:44 Mistmanov must have hand picked E323 ;) 2010-11-29T15:38:46 oldman is actually pretty good 2010-11-29T15:38:49 yea 2010-11-29T15:38:52 it's also like.. in the last few days before the contest I kinda lost interest since I couldn't see any blatant flaws that I could fix, but now I've already found 3 extremely easy fixes that also improve performance.. frustrating that you can't upload the fixes -_- 2010-11-29T15:38:54 chiting bastard Mistmanov 2010-11-29T15:39:02 woah 2010-11-29T15:39:05 tied with dmj 2010-11-29T15:39:06 and given that mcleopold is at 35 2010-11-29T15:39:12 i don't have much hope of hitting top 50 2010-11-29T15:39:16 davidjliu: i beat him before :O 2010-11-29T15:39:28 http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=9172808 2010-11-29T15:39:29 (a brief party before losing to _Astek_) 2010-11-29T15:39:42 aah thedreamer broke my winning streak 2010-11-29T15:39:49 but given that its #16 2010-11-29T15:39:51 I think my bot usually beats dmj head to head 2010-11-29T15:39:53 shouldn't cost me elo^ 2010-11-29T15:40:17 i'll go back to 80 then 2010-11-29T15:40:18 jimrogerz seems to have you both beat for us though 2010-11-29T15:40:19 snif 2010-11-29T15:40:21 cfaftw's old submission (Oct 5th) is still in top50 2010-11-29T15:40:25 i beat jim, but then he beat me back :( 2010-11-29T15:40:28 * Ken69267 meanwhile will be just excitied if I can get back to 1400 :\ 2010-11-29T15:40:45 Ken69267: :) 2010-11-29T15:41:01 unfortunately... urg 2010-11-29T15:41:24 well, I've been gradually rising, so never know... (wishful thinking :)) 2010-11-29T15:41:41 do we know when they are gonna start culling the lower bots? 2010-11-29T15:41:56 Ken: you're good for a while yet 2010-11-29T15:41:59 *** winexception1 has quit IRC (Quit: Bye) 2010-11-29T15:42:07 I think I have a strangely good record against people in irc though 2010-11-29T15:42:08 http://ai-contest.com/game_stats.php 2010-11-29T15:42:09 janzert: ping 2010-11-29T15:42:11 *** Naktibalda has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T15:42:14 that page will tell you which bots are still running 2010-11-29T15:42:16 *** winexception has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T15:42:21 Ken69267: they already exluded bots which fail on first turn.. more culling expected today 2010-11-29T15:42:46 just starter package submissions afaik 2010-11-29T15:43:01 i really wonder now if 0.23 might have done better 2010-11-29T15:43:06 oh well i will never know 2010-11-29T15:43:11 bhasker: i doubt it 2010-11-29T15:43:23 well it was holding 40-50 for a really long time though 2010-11-29T15:43:25 this one was betterr on tcp and i could beat 0.23 quite significantly 2010-11-29T15:43:30 unless you made more changes 2010-11-29T15:43:32 hmm k 2010-11-29T15:43:37 no i didn't make more changes to 0.23 2010-11-29T15:43:51 this one actually does better against top bots 2010-11-29T15:43:58 i wonder how much of a rock paper siccor effect there is in bots 2010-11-29T15:43:58 0.23 was too conservative 2010-11-29T15:43:59 bhasker: max is way stronger against me, that's for sure.. considering "getting stuck in clusters" you can't be really sure which one is stronger 2010-11-29T15:44:06 true 2010-11-29T15:44:20 *** narnach has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-11-29T15:44:25 the problem with this version is it randomly does stupid things and loses to really crap bots at times 2010-11-29T15:44:29 you were breaking mega1's defenses really well with max 2010-11-29T15:44:31 0.23 rarely lost to crap bots 2010-11-29T15:44:45 yea since its not conservative it does well against top rated bots 2010-11-29T15:44:53 #80 >_> 2010-11-29T15:44:58 CUUUUUUUURSES Mistmanov 2010-11-29T15:45:00 ;P 2010-11-29T15:45:01 brb 2010-11-29T15:45:13 like this http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=9178665 2010-11-29T15:45:20 sorry medri :p 2010-11-29T15:46:38 *** nn has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-11-29T15:46:38 that shows sniping doesn't always pay off over long distances 2010-11-29T15:46:51 really nice http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=9173552 2010-11-29T15:46:56 its hard to properly detect that stuff 2010-11-29T15:47:14 http://arimaa.com/arimaa/learn/notation.html 2010-11-29T15:47:22 that's the page i wanted before if any of you are interested 2010-11-29T15:48:03 is that the competition 2010-11-29T15:48:19 that's specific information 2010-11-29T15:48:23 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3968), Slin-.-(3767), _iouri_(3762), _Astek_(3761), GreenTea(3749), jimrogerz(3738), george(3733), Accoun(3720), protocolocon(3714), Raschi(3683) 2010-11-29T15:48:37 201 elo difference 2010-11-29T15:48:43 between #1 and #2 2010-11-29T15:48:48 monsterous 2010-11-29T15:48:52 this can't go on much longer 2010-11-29T15:49:16 I think it's out of proportion. 2010-11-29T15:49:18 you'd think yes :P 2010-11-29T15:49:18 *** sigh has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-11-29T15:49:39 *** bhasker_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T15:49:47 * mega1 took a screenshot anyway 2010-11-29T15:49:52 why looking at slin's and iouri's difference its very little and you raped iouri completely 2010-11-29T15:50:04 so it seems good to me? 2010-11-29T15:52:12 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-11-29T15:52:24 you are just barely losing 2010-11-29T15:52:38 rarely* 2010-11-29T15:53:47 I guess it's the second map set, the first didn't fit my bot as well. 2010-11-29T15:55:41 *** mega1 has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-11-29T15:56:03 *** mega1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T15:57:27 *** mega1 has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-11-29T15:58:03 *** mega1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T15:58:39 mega1> ??? 2010-11-29T15:59:08 mega1> u detect map set diference? 2010-11-29T15:59:15 *** p4p4 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2010-11-29T15:59:27 mega1> u detect map sets diference? 2010-11-29T15:59:32 Accoun: not really, I haven't been looking at the games. 2010-11-29T15:59:42 it's just I'm on a really lucky streak. 2010-11-29T16:00:14 mega1> and aim jast get really unlucky streak. 2010-11-29T16:00:52 so am I -.- 2010-11-29T16:01:04 6 losses in a row 2010-11-29T16:01:08 blech 2010-11-29T16:01:54 mega1> jartez says the vows do not cheat with cards 2010-11-29T16:02:15 maps 2010-11-29T16:02:32 * mega1 had to manually remove 'kill -9 -1' from .bash_history, kept killing everything with ^R kill 2010-11-29T16:02:57 mega1: uhh? 2010-11-29T16:03:18 ohh i see 2010-11-29T16:03:34 haha, yeah i had similar problems too :P 2010-11-29T16:08:16 *** medrimonia has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2010-11-29T16:08:30 *** medrimonia3 is now known as medrimonia 2010-11-29T16:12:06 *** Palmik has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-11-29T16:15:47 *** Cold-Phoenix has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T16:17:19 i beat astek :) 2010-11-29T16:17:32 http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=9194659 2010-11-29T16:17:37 with my killer first move people hate :) 2010-11-29T16:21:13 loss, loss, loss, loss, loss, win, loss, win loss, loss, .... 2010-11-29T16:21:16 :/ 2010-11-29T16:23:22 antimatroid: that seems to me to be the optimal move... 2010-11-29T16:26:38 antimatroid1: what's with the turn 40 waste top left 2010-11-29T16:27:14 the top 10 is remarkably stable 2010-11-29T16:27:43 i'm curious to see the confidence intervals. will those be published after the tournament? 2010-11-29T16:27:53 intersting, they are getting to 3 games with each other, vs 2 games with people lower down the ladder 2010-11-29T16:28:03 i wonder how strong of a clustering effect that adds up to 2010-11-29T16:28:19 I just love watching those synchronized attacks from mega1's bot 2010-11-29T16:28:26 they are awesome =) 2010-11-29T16:28:46 davidjliu: yep 2010-11-29T16:29:16 It's mistery for my how he impelement such synchronized attacks 2010-11-29T16:29:26 * implement 2010-11-29T16:29:28 guys, the top 1 is incredibly stable 2010-11-29T16:29:38 :0 2010-11-29T16:29:39 that's why i considered it 2010-11-29T16:29:39 well i had it, but it didn't work as good 2010-11-29T16:29:42 so yeah 2010-11-29T16:29:51 mistery to me to i guess 2010-11-29T16:30:36 it requires lots of confidence in ur future states :P 2010-11-29T16:31:41 Maybe It reserves some ships for future.. 2010-11-29T16:31:45 i have synchronized attacks too (grumble grumble...) 2010-11-29T16:32:57 *** Appleman1234 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-11-29T16:33:02 i did that but often i lost planets that were supposed to help etc 2010-11-29T16:33:05 i ahve them as well :P 2010-11-29T16:33:06 same for me.. when my bot syncs attack from ~10 planets, it looks really cool when all fleets hit at the same time ;) 2010-11-29T16:33:07 But what if in next turn reserved ships will be better to use not for attack. 2010-11-29T16:33:08 mega1: how did you manage to do that ? 2010-11-29T16:33:41 GreenTea: then that attack becomes abandoned and you see strange things like insufficient ships arriving at the target 2010-11-29T16:33:48 well maybe he re-evaluates each time 2010-11-29T16:33:56 and just lets some attacks go 2010-11-29T16:34:01 well, it sort of does 2010-11-29T16:34:01 i send ships as early as possible for offense 2010-11-29T16:34:01 but i have it for expansion and defense etc. 2010-11-29T16:34:37 yeah synchronized attacks can be quite brittle especially if you are under attack 2010-11-29T16:34:46 GreenTea: yeah i sometimes cancel scheduled fleets but only do it rarely 2010-11-29T16:35:20 smloh1: so this means that this was mistake to send first fleets? 2010-11-29T16:35:43 Error323: I reevaluate and sometimes abandon coordinated attacks. 2010-11-29T16:35:43 i guess it was a good gamble 2010-11-29T16:35:51 Error323: which is a pain to watch. 2010-11-29T16:36:12 Because first fleets are - send - but no effect because rest fleets are canceled.. 2010-11-29T16:36:32 mega1: also on neutrals? because i've never seen that happen with your bot 2010-11-29T16:37:12 GreenTea: I don't hold information across states 2010-11-29T16:37:16 if it's no longer optimal it's a sunk cost 2010-11-29T16:37:19 Error323: I did, unfortunately. 2010-11-29T16:37:24 it's most painful when it's against neutrals, then you lose ships vs the opponent 2010-11-29T16:37:27 i see 2010-11-29T16:37:50 antimatroid1: yeah me neither, you just do what's best in the current turn 2010-11-29T16:37:59 " it's most painful when it's against neutrals, then you lose ships vs the opponent" exactly 2010-11-29T16:38:00 but its such an awesome snipe reduction 2010-11-29T16:38:13 and also the sync attacks allow for very difficult defense 2010-11-29T16:38:19 my "moves" were just a vector of "fleets" with a single destination, but multiple sources and times sent 2010-11-29T16:38:25 this rarely happens though as long as you don't schedule attacks too far into future, and if your attacks are conservative (i.e. when it's safe to attack without exposing you to risk of successful counter attack) 2010-11-29T16:39:04 i would treat those moves as pure strategies in my attempts at a zero sum simultaneous game too 2010-11-29T16:39:28 well just because it happens doesn't mean you didn't make the best possible decision at the earlier point 2010-11-29T16:39:36 Maybe scheduled coordinated moves, attacks - is the key feature of bocsi) 2010-11-29T16:40:11 i think he evaluates each time giving attacks already underway priority or sth 2010-11-29T16:40:20 i found the hardest problem for me was the most efficient redistribution of unused ships 2010-11-29T16:40:39 yeah i had a hard time with that aswell 2010-11-29T16:40:41 in order to maximize future potential and minimize vulnerabilities 2010-11-29T16:41:04 i like my redistribution system 2010-11-29T16:41:13 just sending to the closest frontline was my solution, minimize in-flight time overall 2010-11-29T16:41:23 via hubs that is 2010-11-29T16:41:38 but ye its far from optimal 2010-11-29T16:41:42 mine was slightly more complicated 2010-11-29T16:42:41 yeah funneling ships in a wrong direction is such a pain.. did anyone take future potential captures (i.e. planet clusters) into account when funneling? 2010-11-29T16:42:45 for a source, ships sent = min(usableships, 4*growth), redist planet = friend planet upon arrival such that it's leq distance to closest enemy and it minimises the distance from source to redist and redist to redist.closestEnemy 2010-11-29T16:43:04 OMG two times with the same bot on the same map! http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=9195079, http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=9197089 2010-11-29T16:43:11 rebelxt: i consider the ownership of planets upon arrival for any move, so yes 2010-11-29T16:43:49 poor McLeopold :( 2010-11-29T16:43:50 i had a very approximate metric which tested how much "better" the future would be if each particular planet had (numships/2) more ships 2010-11-29T16:44:07 "did anyone take future potential captures (i.e. planet clusters) into account when funneling" think about that - but no 2010-11-29T16:44:13 GreenTea> it canadian chiting 2010-11-29T16:44:24 :) 2010-11-29T16:44:38 :D 2010-11-29T16:45:16 ;-) 2010-11-29T16:45:19 it not fun 2010-11-29T16:45:24 hahahahha 2010-11-29T16:45:27 it tragedy 2010-11-29T16:45:28 O.M.G. 2010-11-29T16:46:49 We play so many games that now I have no "+" for elo points when win. Only "-" when losse :( 2010-11-29T16:48:22 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3960), _iouri_(3761), _Astek_(3759), Slin-.-(3755), GreenTea(3747), jimrogerz(3737), george(3727), Accoun(3723), protocolocon(3718), Raschi(3678) 2010-11-29T16:49:02 cutoff+reset may fix that :P 2010-11-29T16:49:23 just kidding 2010-11-29T16:49:52 I dont want reset )) 2010-11-29T16:50:41 reset wont happen 2010-11-29T16:51:10 wouldn't make sense anyway 2010-11-29T16:51:25 i wonder how much the system has stabilized so far 2010-11-29T16:51:41 hope so, my bot is performing far better than i expected 2010-11-29T16:51:59 mine is not >_< 2010-11-29T16:52:17 mine is, considering it's my Nov 11th code 2010-11-29T16:52:23 but oh well I know a fellow countryman who has more reason to complain :P 2010-11-29T16:52:41 on first looks arimaa looks like a walk in the park compared to planet wars 2010-11-29T16:52:53 is that the game we are doing next? 2010-11-29T16:52:56 antimatroid1: will that be the next? 2010-11-29T16:52:58 no 2010-11-29T16:52:59 i hope not 2010-11-29T16:53:00 ah ok 2010-11-29T16:53:18 huh 2010-11-29T16:53:20 it already has a yearly ai contest for it 2010-11-29T16:53:33 it is harder that chess... 2010-11-29T16:53:39 yes 2010-11-29T16:53:42 *** exaide has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-11-29T16:53:43 branching factor is much higher 2010-11-29T16:53:47 its really weird 2010-11-29T16:53:48 * than 2010-11-29T16:54:05 bunnies and elephants 2010-11-29T16:54:12 camels! 2010-11-29T16:54:15 ) 2010-11-29T16:54:18 everybody loves camels 2010-11-29T16:54:37 anyway, it's 9am, i should go to bed 2010-11-29T16:54:47 i'd like the organizers to chose a simultaneous game again 2010-11-29T16:54:47 LOL 2010-11-29T16:54:55 yeah i agree 2010-11-29T16:54:58 this game was perfect 2010-11-29T16:55:06 meneky: i expect they will 2010-11-29T16:55:09 though tron seems interesting aswell 2010-11-29T16:55:11 i'm a fan of simultaneous games too 2010-11-29T16:55:14 *** nullkuhl has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-11-29T16:55:19 tron was simultaneous 2010-11-29T16:55:19 pitty i didn't know this contest by then 2010-11-29T16:55:23 simultaneous seemed to add a layer of difficulty 2010-11-29T16:55:32 but I haven't done turn based so what do I know 2010-11-29T16:55:43 *** Mistmanov_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T16:55:50 but i would like a game that allows for more ai techniques and less heuristics 2010-11-29T16:56:04 im not participate it tron, but think galcon is more interesting 2010-11-29T16:56:05 there isn't that much in the way of ai techniques 2010-11-29T16:56:14 Greentea: you're right 2010-11-29T16:56:21 it's way more interesting, and way harder 2010-11-29T16:56:32 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T16:56:47 *** nullkuhl has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T16:57:23 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T16:57:34 sigh: morning, goodnight :) 2010-11-29T16:57:48 haha, been up all night? 2010-11-29T16:57:52 yep :P 2010-11-29T16:57:52 cya 2010-11-29T16:57:54 lol 2010-11-29T16:58:32 *** Mistmanov has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-11-29T16:58:42 it's pretty much the norm of late anyway 2010-11-29T16:59:12 fair enough :) 2010-11-29T16:59:24 *** bhasker_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-11-29T16:59:30 *** meneky has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-11-29T16:59:38 *** Mistmanov_ is now known as Mistmanov 2010-11-29T17:01:16 I'd be happy if the galcon challenge kept running... I just found it last week though 2010-11-29T17:01:46 politik: you can always set up your own tcp server 2010-11-29T17:01:56 if no one else does 2010-11-29T17:01:58 *** Rubicon-|-Cross has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T17:02:08 mcleopold did 2010-11-29T17:02:16 yeah, but is he keeping it up? 2010-11-29T17:02:18 yeah, I like playing with this big group of people though 2010-11-29T17:02:29 yeah for at least a while 2010-11-29T17:02:30 *** mega1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2010-11-29T17:02:31 *** winexception1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T17:02:37 *** Migi32 has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T17:03:00 next time someone should plug it on reddit right off the bat. that's how I found it 2010-11-29T17:03:15 this was great though 2010-11-29T17:03:35 on the way up http://ai-contest.com/profile.php?user_id=5822 2010-11-29T17:03:36 yeah next contest might attract 20K people if advertised well and if a good problem is selected 2010-11-29T17:03:44 george/hazard/cfaftw down 2010-11-29T17:03:49 and Darthmasta! 2010-11-29T17:03:49 bhasker: i'm going dooooooown 2010-11-29T17:03:54 its not good 2010-11-29T17:03:57 i saw :-\ 2010-11-29T17:03:57 ;_; 2010-11-29T17:04:00 rebel is on his way up to 2010-11-29T17:04:05 at 50 last i checked 2010-11-29T17:04:09 I'm going up too bhasker!!! 2010-11-29T17:04:11 am i? cool ;) 2010-11-29T17:04:18 you are #50 2010-11-29T17:04:19 exact 2010-11-29T17:04:32 you are already up there medri 2010-11-29T17:04:34 *** meneky has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T17:04:37 you work on getting to top 10 2010-11-29T17:04:37 politik: there were many posts on reddit off the bat 2010-11-29T17:04:41 while we get to top50 2010-11-29T17:04:46 that's how most people found it 2010-11-29T17:04:51 or flow through effects from that 2010-11-29T17:04:52 ah the rankings getting stable at all, or does it still change a lot? 2010-11-29T17:04:59 sigh: fairly stable 2010-11-29T17:05:00 yeah, I found it on reddit 2010-11-29T17:05:11 i hope it still changes a lot :P 2010-11-29T17:05:14 11 elo points between 2 and 5 places %) 2010-11-29T17:05:15 haha 2010-11-29T17:05:27 I don't think I'll end up in top 10, I'll surely loose some ranks after, I'm really on a mad winning streak 2010-11-29T17:05:37 i wonder what would happen if i were to be "moved" to #10 2010-11-29T17:05:38 *** davidjliu_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T17:05:45 antimatroid1: ah, I guess I somehow don't read reddit enough :) I just saw the later post about someone doing fairly well with a genetic alg 2010-11-29T17:05:47 *** davidjliu has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-11-29T17:06:12 it was on reddit quite a few times before that 2010-11-29T17:06:16 *** winexception has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2010-11-29T17:06:24 I think one of the posts was even by antimatroid :P 2010-11-29T17:06:39 ok, my bad 2010-11-29T17:06:44 error you would end up at #100 :p 2010-11-29T17:07:19 XD 2010-11-29T17:07:33 i think the new 75 maps are doing my bot good 2010-11-29T17:07:37 it seems to be winning more now 2010-11-29T17:07:39 hope not :P 2010-11-29T17:08:01 http://ai-contest.com/profile.php?user_id=5822 2010-11-29T17:08:01 :p 2010-11-29T17:08:22 wow 2010-11-29T17:08:34 i was there this morning :P 2010-11-29T17:09:07 antimatroid1: you're one of the organizers, right (pardon my ignorance)? I'm looking forward to the next challenge, kudos on this one 2010-11-29T17:09:09 sigh: yeah, i did the r/cs one :) 2010-11-29T17:09:18 hope it is as well run as this one has been 2010-11-29T17:09:27 politik: no, just an overly obsessed competitor :) 2010-11-29T17:09:34 ah ok :) 2010-11-29T17:09:58 oh ffs nearly 12 losses in a row 2010-11-29T17:10:02 jezus 2010-11-29T17:10:14 http://ai-contest.com/profile.php?user_id=10154 2010-11-29T17:10:16 yeouch 2010-11-29T17:10:18 that just makes my eyes bleed 2010-11-29T17:10:23 *** davidjliu_ is now known as davidjliu 2010-11-29T17:10:24 ouch... 2010-11-29T17:11:03 i'm slowly dropping 2010-11-29T17:11:06 Error323: wow.. you should get back up though.. we were pretty close in the rankings prior to final tourney 2010-11-29T17:11:48 wins and losses seem to come in waves... I wonder if that's just because the rank overshoots 2010-11-29T17:12:15 the response needs better damping ;) 2010-11-29T17:12:18 sigh: you're probably spot on 2010-11-29T17:12:18 rebelxt: mja 2010-11-29T17:12:55 yeah i get some interesting matches from time to time with top10, or someone in 100-200 range.. it does overshoot sometimes 2010-11-29T17:14:03 next challenge could be optimizing match scheduling and scoring for challenges like this one ;-) 2010-11-29T17:14:03 i recently get 2 games against 2500+ 2010-11-29T17:14:38 rebelxt: hahah n1 2010-11-29T17:14:57 though how would you evaluate? :P 2010-11-29T17:15:44 meneky: what is rufes band? google doesn't seem to find anything 2010-11-29T17:15:46 oh man rank 88 2010-11-29T17:15:51 Error323: sometime like #game until you are within delta of a rank? 2010-11-29T17:16:05 this sort of stuff is evaluated all the time in control theory 2010-11-29T17:16:11 YESYESYESYES 2010-11-29T17:16:21 i just caught myself thinking "what if i click to watch this last win, will it decrease my chances of winning the next game? probably so. let's not click then" rofl... this is sad 2010-11-29T17:16:22 finally got a game agaisnt a high ranker again 2010-11-29T17:16:24 13 -->> win 2010-11-29T17:16:32 meneky: seems like a crew of fairly high ranked C++ devs :) 2010-11-29T17:16:32 coming for you Error :p 2010-11-29T17:16:38 politik: just a group of people from a company, but we do not like our company very much 2010-11-29T17:16:52 rebelxt: you're like one of those people who reads horoscope thingys 2010-11-29T17:17:00 Mistmanov: nice 2010-11-29T17:17:35 <--is glad that he is beating all bots from india ! 2010-11-29T17:17:46 antimatroid1: nah, i still clicked ;-) this tourney is a great productivity killer 2010-11-29T17:17:52 lol amen to that rebel 2010-11-29T17:17:59 i don't how many times i have hit refresh :-\ 2010-11-29T17:18:17 ye 2010-11-29T17:18:21 politik: very good technical level, no so good company 2010-11-29T17:18:37 meneky: is it well known? 2010-11-29T17:18:55 meneky: what's the deal with Elalfer? 2010-11-29T17:18:59 is he just living in spain? 2010-11-29T17:19:05 no, just an small company 2010-11-29T17:19:29 you have 16 people, it's a big small company :P 2010-11-29T17:19:32 Mistmanov: grrr 2010-11-29T17:19:34 at least* 2010-11-29T17:19:42 it's nice you guys have many enough people who were interested in this challenge. i assume you guys could test against each other which is a huge benefit 2010-11-29T17:20:02 rebelxt: and spent the last 3 months at work coding :P 2010-11-29T17:20:17 bah, i'm really climbing into bed now, night :P 2010-11-29T17:20:18 yes, we set up our own tcp server to fight against our bots 2010-11-29T17:20:53 meneky: nice. this really helps 2010-11-29T17:20:59 idd 2010-11-29T17:21:19 sure, but mos of us began too late, around 1 nov most of us 2010-11-29T17:21:30 protocolocon started it all 2010-11-29T17:21:51 you guys certainly didn't go unoticed :) 2010-11-29T17:21:57 hehe indd 2010-11-29T17:22:03 woohoo another victory! 2010-11-29T17:22:07 i'm scared to see what happens if all of you start next contest early ;) 2010-11-29T17:22:16 the yellow/red flag is very eyecatching =) 2010-11-29T17:22:25 :) 2010-11-29T17:22:43 i'll goto bed once i win one game :P 2010-11-29T17:22:49 all the green looks nice http://ai-contest.com/profile.php?user_id=5822 2010-11-29T17:23:08 i got about 7 people from my company to submit bots but only two got really into it and kept improving 2010-11-29T17:23:10 all the red too http://ai-contest.com/profile.php?user_id=10154 2010-11-29T17:23:14 :P 2010-11-29T17:23:24 rebelxt grats #48 now 2010-11-29T17:23:39 9 elo points between 2-5 places 2010-11-29T17:24:10 cool 2010-11-29T17:24:17 Mistmanov: ur now second of holland 2010-11-29T17:24:17 podium spots still up for grabs 2010-11-29T17:24:24 * Error323 shivers 2010-11-29T17:24:36 I certainly expect to get first actually :p 2010-11-29T17:24:56 12, thanks to bocsi ( 2010-11-29T17:25:00 if not, I'll spend the entire next contest whining about chiting 2010-11-29T17:25:01 yeah so do i unfortunatly 2010-11-29T17:25:22 we should just prune from the top too 2010-11-29T17:25:26 remove mega1 2010-11-29T17:25:29 xD 2010-11-29T17:25:33 should make it more interesting 2010-11-29T17:25:36 for the remaining ranks 2010-11-29T17:25:36 ! 2010-11-29T17:25:43 +1 2010-11-29T17:27:20 wonder how many man-hours got invested into this challenge... 2010-11-29T17:27:41 a pretty ridiculous amount probably 2010-11-29T17:27:49 next contest should be to find a cure for world hunger 2010-11-29T17:27:49 we could have probably built a space ship in 3 months and could have started REAL planet wars! 2010-11-29T17:28:06 *** BaronTrozo has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T17:28:06 )) 2010-11-29T17:28:07 hahaha 2010-11-29T17:28:28 * Mistmanov has a brilliant game idea 2010-11-29T17:28:29 except then you have continuous time and moving planets 2010-11-29T17:28:38 * antimatroid1 is terrible at going to bed 2010-11-29T17:29:03 Mistmanov: what then? 2010-11-29T17:29:08 spill your guts! 2010-11-29T17:29:10 * Mistmanov realises idea isn't brilliant 2010-11-29T17:29:12 >_< 2010-11-29T17:29:14 haha 2010-11-29T17:29:17 ;) 2010-11-29T17:29:18 lol 2010-11-29T17:29:28 was thinking something like.. a world map where you had to optimize population 2010-11-29T17:29:41 so where do you grow what kind of food, where do you live 2010-11-29T17:29:49 what do you mean by optimise? 2010-11-29T17:29:51 *** yasith has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-11-29T17:29:55 well, as many people as possible 2010-11-29T17:29:58 without them starving 2010-11-29T17:30:07 how about a simple RTS game? 2010-11-29T17:30:33 2 player mario kart ftw 2010-11-29T17:30:49 I personally think planet wars is a simple rts game 2010-11-29T17:30:56 planet wars isn't rts 2010-11-29T17:30:57 adding different unit types etc just makes it more complicated no? 2010-11-29T17:31:01 is wondering if he will the next game 2010-11-29T17:31:08 @predict 2010-11-29T17:31:08 I predict that ChanServ will win! 2010-11-29T17:31:12 haha 2010-11-29T17:31:14 simple RTS - i like this idea 2010-11-29T17:31:24 @predict 2010-11-29T17:31:24 I predict that Zoo will win! 2010-11-29T17:31:28 @predict 2010-11-29T17:31:28 I predict that Sylph will win! 2010-11-29T17:31:31 damn 2010-11-29T17:31:34 @predict bhasker 2010-11-29T17:31:34 I predict that Zannick will win! 2010-11-29T17:31:37 bah 2010-11-29T17:31:38 haha 2010-11-29T17:31:39 stupid bot 2010-11-29T17:31:40 lol' 2010-11-29T17:31:40 yay 2010-11-29T17:31:43 @predict 2010-11-29T17:31:43 I predict that BtbN will win! 2010-11-29T17:31:47 also i just won nanowrimo 2010-11-29T17:31:52 so contestbot is right :) 2010-11-29T17:32:17 planet wars isnt an RTS, you can't take orders back! 2010-11-29T17:32:22 a turn based strat like planet wars with different unit types and a resource supply 2010-11-29T17:32:34 i can't order my units back midway! 2010-11-29T17:32:34 rts == real time strategy yeah? 2010-11-29T17:32:35 spend your resources on different things... 2010-11-29T17:32:36 Zannick: you won a 50k word novel, yay! 2010-11-29T17:32:43 now if it allowed that then yes 2010-11-29T17:32:49 and it woudl be turn based anyway 2010-11-29T17:32:51 bhasker: ah yeah, that's a big difference 2010-11-29T17:32:57 not an RTS 2010-11-29T17:32:58 Zannick: how much time did you spend writing it 2010-11-29T17:33:03 yeah ok, but any game is going to be turn based 2010-11-29T17:33:13 foucist: most of my free time in november 2010-11-29T17:33:13 well RTS don't have an explicit turn 2010-11-29T17:33:16 not necessarily 2010-11-29T17:33:17 @echo [rankings], $randomNick(3654) 2010-11-29T17:33:18 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3958), _iouri_(3751), Slin-.-(3751), _Astek_(3743), GreenTea(3742), jimrogerz(3727), george(3721), Accoun(3713), protocolocon(3705), Raschi(3669) , eregon(3654) 2010-11-29T17:33:22 they have ticks 2010-11-29T17:33:25 for resource counts etc 2010-11-29T17:33:33 but no explicit turns 2010-11-29T17:33:38 if you do rts, there can be no time limits to make moves, let players execute moves as they want 2010-11-29T17:33:42 yea 2010-11-29T17:33:45 just max time limit on games 2010-11-29T17:33:56 no time limits? 2010-11-29T17:33:59 why? 2010-11-29T17:34:03 cause that'd be cool 2010-11-29T17:34:11 trade off between spending ages to calculate moves and sending them fast 2010-11-29T17:34:18 oh, i see what you mean 2010-11-29T17:34:23 continuous game 2010-11-29T17:34:24 Zannick: did you also work on a bot for this challenge too? 2010-11-29T17:34:27 yep 2010-11-29T17:34:28 in rts two bots are runing in separate threads and do what they want 2010-11-29T17:34:31 that would be really cool 2010-11-29T17:34:35 i like the chaser type game idea 2010-11-29T17:34:39 possibly with weapons 2010-11-29T17:34:42 it would take much more time per game, but the games itself would be much more informative 2010-11-29T17:34:46 *** bhasker_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T17:34:48 or 2 player mario kart would be awesome 2010-11-29T17:35:10 I guess I don't understand mario kart then 2010-11-29T17:35:14 I don't see the complexity 2010-11-29T17:35:23 you are fighting the other bot to win 2010-11-29T17:35:24 with weapons 2010-11-29T17:35:34 yeah, like who can hoard a blue shell the best 2010-11-29T17:35:36 -_- 2010-11-29T17:35:37 oh, forgot about the weapons 2010-11-29T17:35:47 and you can bump them off edges etc. 2010-11-29T17:35:53 or nudge them around corners 2010-11-29T17:35:56 WHOOOOOOOOOOOOPDIEFUCKINDOO 2010-11-29T17:35:59 I got a win 2010-11-29T17:36:08 @rainbow BRING OUT THE CLOWNS 2010-11-29T17:36:08 Error323: BRING OUT THE CLOWNS 2010-11-29T17:36:12 :) 2010-11-29T17:36:18 heh 2010-11-29T17:36:20 )) 2010-11-29T17:36:30 i really like the idea of mario kart 2010-11-29T17:36:39 *** Apophis has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-11-29T17:37:30 @rainbow The colors, they burn!!! 2010-11-29T17:37:30 greghaynes: The colors, they burn!!! 2010-11-29T17:37:34 medrimonia got one against accoun 2010-11-29T17:37:48 @rainbow /r/rainbowbar 2010-11-29T17:37:48 antimatroid1: /r/rainbowbar 2010-11-29T17:38:00 whatever we do, let's make sure it's not Hex game! 2010-11-29T17:38:02 @rainbow Привет Мир! 2010-11-29T17:38:02 GreenTea: Привет Мир! 2010-11-29T17:38:10 *** phreeza has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T17:38:13 why would it be hex? 2010-11-29T17:38:15 dammit lost it 2010-11-29T17:38:17 !@#!@# 2010-11-29T17:38:17 http://www.reddit.com/r/rainbowbar/ 2010-11-29T17:38:21 i lost the game 2010-11-29T17:38:25 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2010-11-29T17:38:25 you guys have seen that right? 2010-11-29T17:38:28 Hex is great game, but mega1 used to have one of the strongest Hex programs in the world 2010-11-29T17:38:52 i don't know hex 2010-11-29T17:39:01 i wanted to do hex 2010-11-29T17:39:08 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hex_(board_game) 2010-11-29T17:39:10 got a link? 2010-11-29T17:39:11 ah 2010-11-29T17:39:11 ty 2010-11-29T17:39:45 antimatroid1: what the hell is that subreddit? 2010-11-29T17:39:54 don't mouse over the reddit thing on the top left :P 2010-11-29T17:40:00 No no no,. in this game mega1 eat the dog.. 2010-11-29T17:40:02 sigh: it's eye bleach 2010-11-29T17:40:09 like http://www.reddit.com/r/hurts_my_eyes/ 2010-11-29T17:40:09 ? 2010-11-29T17:40:30 did you get the pony surprise? 2010-11-29T17:40:36 i guess we can't do Hex, if a perfect strategy is known 2010-11-29T17:40:37 no 2010-11-29T17:40:37 holy crap 2010-11-29T17:40:45 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T17:40:49 oh similar to go? 2010-11-29T17:40:57 anybody else turning to the kaggle traffic prediction challenge now that this is over? 2010-11-29T17:40:59 agree it must be a game that has no perfect strategy (yet) 2010-11-29T17:41:06 smloh1: no perfect strategy. mega1 used monte carlo/UCT i believe 2010-11-29T17:41:12 oh wait that's only for 9x9 i see 2010-11-29T17:41:13 phreeza you have a link? 2010-11-29T17:41:17 *** rgt has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T17:41:32 are there any fighting games with enough complexity/not a perfect strategy? 2010-11-29T17:41:34 http://kaggle.com/RTA 2010-11-29T17:41:36 that could be fun 2010-11-29T17:41:53 Hex has insane branching factor similar to Go, so computers still can't beat best humans 2010-11-29T17:42:09 on large boards 2010-11-29T17:42:34 "http://kaggle.com/RTA" neural networks.. 2010-11-29T17:42:38 phreeza: i'll take a look 2010-11-29T17:42:42 i am australian afterall 2010-11-29T17:42:49 *** yasith has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T17:42:56 this looks more like a data mining problem 2010-11-29T17:43:00 *** bhasker_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2010-11-29T17:43:01 yes 2010-11-29T17:43:02 hehe maybe local knowledge can give you an edge 2010-11-29T17:43:12 nah, don't spend much time in sydney :P 2010-11-29T17:43:14 yes its not really related at all 2010-11-29T17:43:16 and no trains where i am 2010-11-29T17:43:24 it would also be way cooler to be able to write to file 2010-11-29T17:43:28 but i saw dhartmei is doing it too 2010-11-29T17:43:38 just give every participant some amount of storage on a linux account 2010-11-29T17:43:40 I think competitive games are better for this sort of comp 2010-11-29T17:44:10 http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=9209882 2010-11-29T17:44:12 antimatroid 2010-11-29T17:44:13 Hello all, anybody nows when the cuttingoff is going to began to decrease??? 2010-11-29T17:44:14 yeah, i like simultaneous 2 player games 2010-11-29T17:44:34 bhasker: :) 2010-11-29T17:44:43 BaronTrozo: there should be another round today 2010-11-29T17:45:22 antimatroid1: so today still the cuttingoff is going to be the same, no?? 2010-11-29T17:45:44 the cutoff atm was to remove crash bots 2010-11-29T17:45:53 the next round is to get rid of most starter package level bots 2010-11-29T17:45:53 yeah, next change is supposed to wipe out default bots 2010-11-29T17:45:56 after that i'm not sure 2010-11-29T17:46:23 okey many thanks and good luck to all 2010-11-29T17:46:27 np 2010-11-29T17:46:35 GL baron 2010-11-29T17:46:36 and FUUU for beating me :) 2010-11-29T17:46:44 sorry 2010-11-29T17:46:52 s'all good 2010-11-29T17:46:54 dimka proposed to decrease cutoff as following: 2048, 1024, 512, 256, etc ;) sounds good to me 2010-11-29T17:46:58 i wasn't me it was my bot 2010-11-29T17:47:00 *** rebelxt has left #aichallenge 2010-11-29T17:47:00 Mistmanov: wuut your panic attack pays off =) http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=9209071 2010-11-29T17:48:22 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3957), _iouri_(3748), Slin-.-(3748), _Astek_(3742), GreenTea(3739), jimrogerz(3724), george(3717), Accoun(3712), protocolocon(3705), Raschi(3668) 2010-11-29T17:48:45 nice =) 2010-11-29T17:49:06 on review, that's been my tactic for a bit too long -_- 2010-11-29T17:49:30 fail at expanding, and hope the other guy makes the mistake of going for the kill instead of just waiting till turn 200 2010-11-29T17:49:50 *** rebelxt has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T17:49:54 without that, I lose a lot games 2010-11-29T17:50:04 and/or most 2010-11-29T17:51:16 thats rigth, my bot detects when the game is staic and if at that moment i'm winnig it don't do any move 2010-11-29T17:51:17 well i'm off to bed guys 2010-11-29T17:51:18 cya 2010-11-29T17:51:23 later 2010-11-29T17:51:29 gnight 2010-11-29T17:51:36 staic-> static 2010-11-29T17:51:47 *** smloh1 has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-11-29T17:51:49 BaronTrozo: that's smart, my bot keeps looking for opportunities to lose when ahead ;) 2010-11-29T17:52:42 my bot does detect when it's static and winning.. but since that never occurs (seriously), I haven't even bothered writing the "so stop attacking" line 2010-11-29T17:52:45 when you are winning is better to stay quiet, before taht i loose too many games by doing erroneous moves 2010-11-29T17:52:48 that would be like 1 extra line of code 2010-11-29T17:54:44 BaronTrozo: yeah i had a safety check to prevent neutral attack when ahead. somehow that check did not make it into final version though.. however i only saw one loss due to this issue so far (lucky) 2010-11-29T17:55:05 rebel same here i used to have that check for attacks 2010-11-29T17:55:08 i removed it sometime back 2010-11-29T17:55:10 :-\ 2010-11-29T17:55:39 :) 2010-11-29T17:55:58 *** Appleman1234 has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T17:56:08 the problem is that when my bot attacks, doesn't check if that attack left uncover other planets, so i prfer to be quiet when i'm winnig 2010-11-29T17:56:56 BaronTrozo: yeah saw you testing some different versions of your bot on TCP. looked like different balance between attack/defense/expansion 2010-11-29T17:57:26 UP, EN, etc ;) 2010-11-29T17:57:43 yes, when i finnish my main egine, I prove different heuristics 2010-11-29T17:58:04 UP -> use ships of lost planet 2010-11-29T17:58:21 PE -> priorice enemy attacks 2010-11-29T17:58:42 the kinds of dirty program mistakes 2010-11-29T17:59:12 one more victory! 2010-11-29T17:59:15 aha. good stuff.. since i was also testing very similar things last few days ;-) exactly the same things in fact! 2010-11-29T17:59:37 but none of them seems to work 2010-11-29T18:00:05 i have a poor design from the begin 2010-11-29T18:00:23 true for most of us 2010-11-29T18:00:36 same here baron 2010-11-29T18:00:41 it was dificut to me to found time before 1:00 am 2010-11-29T18:00:54 i couldn't do a min max because my code was structured around player 1 decision making and no easy way to swap players around 2010-11-29T18:01:03 and at that hours my mind was trying to go bed 2010-11-29T18:01:07 your bot is quite good baron 2010-11-29T18:01:22 my bot has good luck 2010-11-29T18:01:44 Mistmanov: grats on getting back into top100! 2010-11-29T18:01:58 thanks =) 2010-11-29T18:02:11 well, for now at least 2010-11-29T18:02:28 I realice that the solution was minimax to late, so there was no time to implement it, so i tryied al that things, UP, ENA, EA5 (rubish) 2010-11-29T18:02:45 BaronTrozo: the answer is always minimax :P 2010-11-29T18:03:20 yeah, but it was my first contest, and i just have a little child, so i have very little time 2010-11-29T18:04:01 baron where are you from? 2010-11-29T18:04:22 next contest will be different, al least is what i expect 2010-11-29T18:04:52 From Madrid, please n jokes as Madrid has just lost 5-0 with Barcelona 2010-11-29T18:04:54 yep, i'll beat you and proto 2010-11-29T18:04:59 :P 2010-11-29T18:05:14 lol i don't follow soccer:) 2010-11-29T18:05:19 so don't worry Baron 2010-11-29T18:05:41 only spanish i know is what little i picked up on my trip to chile earlier this year 2010-11-29T18:05:52 "tienen algun plato vegeteriano" 2010-11-29T18:06:13 that was our life line in chile! being vegetarians 2010-11-29T18:06:26 :) 2010-11-29T18:06:41 Menekey: we will see 2010-11-29T18:07:37 I am really anxious to start the next one now 2010-11-29T18:07:43 learned a lot in this one 2010-11-29T18:07:52 all of you guys, are students?? 2010-11-29T18:07:56 no 2010-11-29T18:07:59 BaronTrozo: no 2010-11-29T18:08:07 nope 2010-11-29T18:08:28 http://kaggle.com/anthony.goldbloom/ 2010-11-29T18:08:31 i wonder if that's smiley 2010-11-29T18:08:57 And, expecting that no booses are following this chat, has anyone dedicated time of work to the contest??? 2010-11-29T18:09:03 it'd be a huge fluke, but the year matches up 2010-11-29T18:09:20 BaronTrozo: i got my uni marks last week, there was a noticable reduction :P 2010-11-29T18:10:09 :) 2010-11-29T18:11:24 antimatroid1: you are a competition addict! 2010-11-29T18:11:47 I spent work downtime on my bot, sure 2010-11-29T18:13:03 when i e-mailed my team about the contest, one of the engineering directors responded: "oh shit, you just killed my productivity for a few weeks" 2010-11-29T18:13:16 BaronTrozo: do you go to university in madrid? 2010-11-29T18:13:45 yes to the politecnic as software engenier 2010-11-29T18:14:01 ah cool :) i was at autonoma last year 2010-11-29T18:14:03 erasmus 2010-11-29T18:14:04 sorry for my english 2010-11-29T18:14:42 but that was long time ago 2010-11-29T18:15:07 *** rebelxt has left #aichallenge 2010-11-29T18:15:24 the productivity of our company has been increased this monday also :) 2010-11-29T18:16:51 BaronTrozo: A little bit late, but I'm a student too 2010-11-29T18:17:03 *** Mistmanov has quit IRC (Quit: sleepy sleepy time) 2010-11-29T18:18:33 *** Cold-Phoenix has quit IRC () 2010-11-29T18:20:01 hah my bot is on good lucky streak today 2010-11-29T18:20:19 go bot go 2010-11-29T18:20:23 http://ai-contest.com/profile.php?user_id=5822 2010-11-29T18:20:53 Good bhasker! You'll make it too top 50 =) 2010-11-29T18:20:53 last 20 games, 3 losses 2 draws 15 wins! 2010-11-29T18:21:06 hopefully lol 2010-11-29T18:21:25 rebel is already there and we are kind of even when we go head to head on the 150 maps 2010-11-29T18:21:29 he wins on the first 75 2010-11-29T18:21:33 i win on the second 75 2010-11-29T18:21:51 *** jaspervdj has quit IRC (Quit: NEVER GONNA GIVE YOU UP NEVER GONNA LET YOU DOWN) 2010-11-29T18:22:02 bhasker: looks like you're up for indians then? :) 2010-11-29T18:23:08 up for? 2010-11-29T18:23:34 winning 2010-11-29T18:24:02 ah yea though i put my country as US since i am in the US these days 2010-11-29T18:24:03 hmm 2010-11-29T18:24:06 *** JamesMG has quit IRC (Quit: home) 2010-11-29T18:24:12 should i change that hmm 2010-11-29T18:24:28 oooh another win 2010-11-29T18:24:30 go go go 2010-11-29T18:24:33 http://ai-contest.com/profile.php?user_id=4038 2010-11-29T18:24:44 isn't doing very well 2010-11-29T18:25:42 "just one more game" 2010-11-29T18:25:46 anyone else got that issue? 2010-11-29T18:26:46 9 more ranks to climb to be on par with rebelxt 2010-11-29T18:26:46 hmm 2010-11-29T18:27:11 ah such a beautiful snipe here 2010-11-29T18:27:12 http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=9216674 2010-11-29T18:27:18 bhasker: just don't beat me :) 2010-11-29T18:27:39 i doubt my bot will stay at this rank 2010-11-29T18:27:47 i am sure that lucky winning streak is going to break soon 2010-11-29T18:27:56 as someone said the wins losses seem to come in waves 2010-11-29T18:28:02 you win a lot then the you lose a lot 2010-11-29T18:28:14 fuuuuu manwe 2010-11-29T18:29:26 What with manwe antimatroid1? 2010-11-29T18:29:38 he beat me :P 2010-11-29T18:29:53 manwe's bot improved a lot in last 1 week 2010-11-29T18:29:55 He's quite good^^ 2010-11-29T18:29:59 i was beating his older bot quite a lot 2010-11-29T18:30:06 last one week it just became a lot better 2010-11-29T18:30:22 *** BaronTrozo has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-11-29T18:30:25 He told me that seeing me upper than him in the ranking has motivated him to work more on his bot 2010-11-29T18:31:10 ah 2010-11-29T18:31:34 same univ? 2010-11-29T18:33:40 nop he sent me a mail via ai_contest forum because we were head to head today 2010-11-29T18:34:32 There were some others of my university but they were in higher classes so they were having more work 2010-11-29T18:35:26 a guy of my class just try a bot once and then stopped because he's too lazy... 2010-11-29T18:37:54 antimatroid: You were really winning against Manwe^^ 2010-11-29T18:38:20 luksian just beat me /cry 2010-11-29T18:39:18 hmm should i change my country to india and be #1 ^ 2010-11-29T18:39:41 very tempting 2010-11-29T18:40:57 maybe I should convert to rufes bandism 2010-11-29T18:41:03 heh, jk 2010-11-29T18:41:18 what is that btw? 2010-11-29T18:42:37 #11 from US or #1 from india hmm 2010-11-29T18:43:04 *** davidjliu_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T18:43:31 amstad: just a group of coworkers 2010-11-29T18:45:18 There isn't any user of Python in top 10 =( 2010-11-29T18:45:22 meneky: is it a company? 2010-11-29T18:45:50 *** davidjliu has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-11-29T18:45:52 amstan: Nop, they don't like their company 2010-11-29T18:46:04 so.. what is it? lol 2010-11-29T18:46:08 amstan: That's why they don't want to make pub^^ 2010-11-29T18:46:49 wouldn't other be enough then? 2010-11-29T18:47:00 what type of organization is it then? 2010-11-29T18:47:29 Hum it's a non-official organization^^ 2010-11-29T18:47:41 something like that 2010-11-29T18:47:51 you can think of it as a programming club 2010-11-29T18:47:55 medrimonia: hopefully we'll change that 2010-11-29T18:48:20 *** davidjliu_ is now known as davidjliu 2010-11-29T18:48:23 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3951), _iouri_(3745), GreenTea(3741), Slin-.-(3741), _Astek_(3734), jimrogerz(3728), george(3714), protocolocon(3705), Accoun(3703), Raschi(3656) 2010-11-29T18:49:35 just a name choosen to group the contestants of our company wihout giving the credit (if any) to it 2010-11-29T18:50:26 oh i see! 2010-11-29T18:50:46 so you are all from the same company, except you chose to keep it hidden 2010-11-29T18:50:52 that's it 2010-11-29T18:50:57 cool 2010-11-29T18:54:59 *** medrimonia has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2010-11-29T18:56:51 *** mceier has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2010-11-29T18:56:59 *** medrimonia has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T18:58:53 woohoo beat manwe 2010-11-29T18:58:58 http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=9222133 2010-11-29T19:04:44 smiley is my personal nemesis :( no won game against him yet 2010-11-29T19:05:38 beat me 3 times so far 2010-11-29T19:08:59 *** rgt has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-11-29T19:14:48 14 more elo to level with rebelxt 2010-11-29T19:20:16 *** GreenTea has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-11-29T19:26:35 *** eburnette has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T19:26:59 @ranking 2010-11-29T19:27:00 eburnette: Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3951), _iouri_(3741), Slin-.-(3736), GreenTea(3735), _Astek_(3732), jimrogerz(3732), george(3707), protocolocon(3701), Accoun(3698), Raschi(3655) 2010-11-29T19:27:41 *** choas has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2010-11-29T19:28:34 ebu what happened to your bot, it was doing much better on tcp? 2010-11-29T19:30:18 I dunno, stiffer competition on the main server I guess. I did resubmit on the last day. 2010-11-29T19:30:49 which may have been a mistake, it's always hard to tell whether you have a better bot or not 2010-11-29T19:32:37 I just published my source and post-mortem 2010-11-29T19:35:11 ah k 2010-11-29T19:35:22 yea main reason why i submitted on 25th 2010-11-29T19:35:26 and didn't try to fix anything 2010-11-29T19:35:29 after that 2010-11-29T19:35:45 its hard to say if its really better without some testing 2010-11-29T19:36:18 5 more ranks to go before top50 ! go bot go 2010-11-29T19:36:36 I ran like 1000 games on tcp and submitted what it said was the best variant 2010-11-29T19:36:49 *** flag has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T19:38:43 ah k 2010-11-29T19:41:50 I wonder if mashup bots would be viable, you know, take move selection from here, evaluation from there, etc.. 2010-11-29T19:43:29 *** sanddbox has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T19:46:06 i was thinking more of a 2010-11-29T19:46:12 feed same state to all the bots 2010-11-29T19:46:15 take the move back 2010-11-29T19:46:17 and score 2010-11-29T19:46:21 and execute best move ^ 2010-11-29T19:46:41 "score" is easier said than done 2010-11-29T19:46:59 well my eval function is pretty simple 2010-11-29T19:47:00 *** Appleman1234 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-11-29T19:47:28 *** Appleman1234 has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T19:47:43 https://code.google.com/p/malazan-bot/source/browse/trunk/gamestate.py#452 2010-11-29T19:48:00 seems to work fine 2010-11-29T19:48:23 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3950), Slin-.-(3737), _iouri_(3734), jimrogerz(3733), _Astek_(3731), GreenTea(3728), george(3702), protocolocon(3695), Accoun(3689), Raschi(3649) 2010-11-29T19:49:34 though scoring defensive moves is had 2010-11-29T19:49:36 hard* 2010-11-29T19:50:27 how did boscmimacko win this 2010-11-29T19:50:29 http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=9229731 2010-11-29T19:51:41 sanddbox: weird! 2010-11-29T19:52:18 *** antimatroid1 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-11-29T19:52:35 uh oh 2010-11-29T19:52:37 *** antimatroid has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T19:53:08 that's similar to my evaluation function except instead of growth and numships I simulate out to the horizon and count ships then 2010-11-29T19:53:50 oh the game state simulates to the end 2010-11-29T19:54:01 i calculate all states upto 2*maxDist+1 2010-11-29T19:54:19 and my horizon is maxDist+1 or 200-curTurn whichever is less 2010-11-29T19:54:35 in this game does bockismacko have an extra planet on his side 2010-11-29T19:54:35 http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=9229731 2010-11-29T19:54:47 or is it a visualizer bug 2010-11-29T19:55:05 doh nm 2010-11-29T19:55:07 visualizer bug 2010-11-29T19:55:25 hmm thats weird that he won 2010-11-29T19:55:31 he was lagging by 5 ships through 2010-11-29T19:55:33 the game 2010-11-29T19:55:42 yeah 2010-11-29T19:56:00 he captured a 5 growth a turn late 2010-11-29T19:56:05 ah 2010-11-29T19:57:39 There are a lot of fleets landing in one turn on that last state 2010-11-29T19:58:15 dmj captures the center planet on the last turn and loses 2010-11-29T19:58:35 yeah, F 2 71 6 0 6 1 snatches defeat from the jaws of victory 2010-11-29T19:59:23 janzert, you sure? 2010-11-29T19:59:48 looks like one turn BEFORE he captures 2010-11-29T20:00:28 bocsi faked him out at move 189 by moving 2959 ships from the front line, really clever or a happy accident, mega1 will never tell 2010-11-29T20:00:32 if you don't know the visualizer shows the state as of the beginning of the turn, and never shows the final state of the game 2010-11-29T20:00:59 so at turn one you see the initial state of the map 2010-11-29T20:01:13 (and 2992 ships at turn 197) 2010-11-29T20:01:16 and turn 200 you see the state at the beginning of the last turn not the result 2010-11-29T20:01:45 and when the numbers say 201 of 200 that is just plain a bug 2010-11-29T20:02:08 I've been really impressed by these viewers in general though, even works on iPad now. 2010-11-29T20:02:58 you guys keep giving me heart attacks though with these games that first appear to have the incorrect winner :/ 2010-11-29T20:04:52 *** bhasker_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T20:05:42 I wonder, this must be the sort of thing Hippo was referring to in the forums? 2010-11-29T20:05:44 http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1142 2010-11-29T20:06:26 the part about "trying to find the weaknesses of the opponent's bot meanwhile" I wasn't quite understanding what he meant by that 2010-11-29T20:06:58 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2010-11-29T20:07:39 My guess is that's just emergent behavior, not something that was coded in 2010-11-29T20:09:22 Ph I see now bhasker, you total ships at horizon and on top of that you give a bonus for growth 2010-11-29T20:10:53 And you divide to get a ratio between 0 and 1, that's a good idea . I tried using a squashing function but I think the ratio is better. 2010-11-29T20:11:33 * eburnette must... not... touch... code... 2010-11-29T20:12:54 *** foucist has left #aichallenge 2010-11-29T20:13:53 hehehe 2010-11-29T20:13:55 Current Rank: 1337 2010-11-29T20:14:05 http://ai-contest.com/profile.php?user_id=3891 2010-11-29T20:14:14 i knew i was 1337 2010-11-29T20:23:02 Has anybody looked at Arimaa? OMG what a weird game. 2010-11-29T20:25:39 hey it's a great game. :) Even though at least a fairly major goal in making it was to make it harder for computers than humans it turned out to also be quite a fun game for humans. At least if you're into games like chess, go and such. 2010-11-29T20:28:20 I like chess. Arimaa seems a lot wilder and unpredictable. 2010-11-29T20:28:56 heh, I find it quite the opposite. The position changes much less rapidly on the whole than chess 2010-11-29T20:29:08 I think that's one reason humans do relatively better 2010-11-29T20:29:40 Hmm, maybe I should try playing it instead of just watching the video :) 2010-11-29T20:30:19 and I suppose that feeling is going to be related to how familiar you are with both games too 2010-11-29T20:35:43 lol ebu :) 2010-11-29T20:36:18 i am going to do a full rewrite later to do a proper minmax bot 2010-11-29T20:36:58 woot above rebelxt finally! 2010-11-29T20:37:02 #53! 2010-11-29T20:37:21 my bot has been having a really good day thanks to the new maps you released janzert 2010-11-29T20:37:35 rebel ran some tests, and my bot does markedly better on the new 75 maps compared to the old 2010-11-29T20:39:30 heh, don't make me feel bad about it. Fortunately now pretty much everyone has played at least once on all of the maps. 2010-11-29T20:41:14 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T20:41:16 rebel ran his bot against mine on old 75 and new 75 2010-11-29T20:41:23 on old 75 he was winning 60% 2010-11-29T20:41:29 on new 75 i was winning 60% 2010-11-29T20:41:50 so i would say nothing has dramatically changed, its just that some maps trigger certain bad behaviour in bots 2010-11-29T20:41:55 since most bots are heuristic based 2010-11-29T20:42:00 Are you going to keep adding maps? 2010-11-29T20:42:45 *** bhasker_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2010-11-29T20:42:51 woohoo, top pythonic bot! for now... 2010-11-29T20:43:08 grats david 2010-11-29T20:43:19 #6 here 2010-11-29T20:43:21 eburnette: no, not that I'm planning on. I think we now have enough that nobody will be playing more than 6 or 7 games on a map and probably the highest will be significantly less than that. 2010-11-29T20:44:19 @ranking 30 2010-11-29T20:44:20 eburnette: Top 30 players: bocsimacko(3939), Slin-.-(3732), jimrogerz(3726), _iouri_(3723), _Astek_(3716), GreenTea(3712), george(3688), protocolocon(3688), Accoun(3686), Raschi(3647), asavis(3645), smloh1(3635), davidjliu(3627), dmj111(3624), thedreamer(3622), medrimonia(3620), bix0r4ever(3618), Neverstu(3616), shangas(3614), CorwinAlex(3614), wagstaff(3605), joakim_mjardner(3601), jambachili(3599), (1 more message) 2010-11-29T20:44:58 E323's luck seems to be finally turning 2010-11-29T20:44:59 http://ai-contest.com/profile.php?user_id=10154 2010-11-29T20:45:02 Wow those scores are really close 2010-11-29T20:45:21 How do you know the results will converge? 2010-11-29T20:48:24 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3939), Slin-.-(3732), jimrogerz(3726), _iouri_(3723), _Astek_(3716), GreenTea(3712), george(3688), protocolocon(3688), Accoun(3686), Raschi(3647) 2010-11-29T20:48:40 This time yesterday the top 10 players were: Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3767), Accoun(3714), protocolocon(3674), _Astek_(3657), GreenTea(3650), jimrogerz(3646), Slin-.-(3635), _iouri_(3631), george(3599), shangas(3596) 2010-11-29T20:49:41 eburnette: I suppose I don't 'know' for sure that results would converge. For instance if the out come of games was completely random they wouldn't or if there was enough intransitivity it wouldn't 2010-11-29T20:50:28 But I believe and it seems to be the case that transitivity holds far more often than not and things will/are settling down. 2010-11-29T20:50:31 I'm not a mathemetician but I don't see convergence with this format. 2010-11-29T20:50:50 looks like the top 9 have already pretty settled 2010-11-29T20:51:09 not their specific order but who is there 2010-11-29T20:51:11 There is major intransitivity, A>B and B>C doesn't mean A>C 2010-11-29T20:51:50 no, but A > B > C > D is A > D more often that not 2010-11-29T20:53:15 If by that you mean A>D more than 50% of the time, sure, but 99%, doubt it. 2010-11-29T20:54:56 @ranking 2010-11-29T20:54:57 pgpaskar: Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3938), jimrogerz(3730), Slin-.-(3729), _iouri_(3722), _Astek_(3716), GreenTea(3711), george(3688), protocolocon(3687), Accoun(3685), Raschi(3647) 2010-11-29T20:55:03 ._____________. 2010-11-29T21:01:55 pgpaskar: ? 2010-11-29T21:02:12 accoun keeps appearing as #2 on the @ranking before I check again just to be safe 2010-11-29T21:02:30 oh nvm that was "this time yesterday" by someone who was not contestbot 2010-11-29T21:02:32 CARRYON. 2010-11-29T21:02:40 lol 2010-11-29T21:03:20 A > B has a range of quality's though 2010-11-29T21:03:27 does A ALWAYS beat B, on ALL maps? 2010-11-29T21:04:10 burny: based on elo? no 2010-11-29T21:04:20 but there's a high chance a will beat b 2010-11-29T21:06:18 * eburnette is not convinced 2010-11-29T21:07:42 ebu from what i have seen its mostly true 2010-11-29T21:07:43 Look at jimrogerz and Accoun. Early this morning Accoun was #2 and jimrogerz was #9. Now they are reversed. 2010-11-29T21:08:05 well that depends on which opponents they are playing too 2010-11-29T21:08:12 right now all bots are not playing the same opponents 2010-11-29T21:08:17 so there will always be some variation 2010-11-29T21:08:25 thats why the cutoff will help 2010-11-29T21:08:32 since then all these bots will play each other more often 2010-11-29T21:08:33 there's a reason the final tournament is still in progress 2010-11-29T21:08:49 which should normalize the elo and order it more strictly 2010-11-29T21:09:28 and it's not because I want to drag this thing out :P 2010-11-29T21:10:01 *** superflit has quit IRC (Quit: superflit) 2010-11-29T21:11:53 Sure, but if the theory is if A > B > C > D then usually A > D, it shouldn't matter much what B and C are. But it does matter what B and C are, therefore that disproves the theory doesn't it? 2010-11-29T21:12:02 btw, if the results are anything besides 100% random.. the stats will eventually converge 2010-11-29T21:12:17 *** virdo has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T21:13:22 if i got this right, a 100 point elo difference implies the stronger player will win 64% of the games. which is really close to 50%... so it is hard to tell players apart without a lot of games. especially when the 2-9 are all within that range. 2010-11-29T21:13:26 Even if every bot played every other bot on every map, there would still be randomness that could move the positions around some. 2010-11-29T21:13:49 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2010-11-29T21:13:56 actually A>B >C>D was a bad example, no need to drag D into it. A > B > C more often than not A > C 2010-11-29T21:14:25 depending on the game.. ya 2010-11-29T21:15:29 *** rebelxt_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T21:16:08 for instance, apper rock scissors 4 players.. one always picks rock, another always picks scissors, another always paper, the 4th always random.. 2010-11-29T21:16:08 I agree with what you're saying janzert, for certain values of "more often than not". 2010-11-29T21:16:12 they'll eventually all be equal rating 2010-11-29T21:16:55 also a big problem results not so much from small intransitivity cycles like A > B > C > A but 2010-11-29T21:17:11 A > 100 different bots > B > A 2010-11-29T21:17:13 If matches are determined randomly, they will never have exactly equal rating burny 2010-11-29T21:17:27 that plays real havoc with any ranking system 2010-11-29T21:17:28 ya they will be 2010-11-29T21:17:43 for certain values of exact 2010-11-29T21:17:50 :P 2010-11-29T21:18:04 if that is common in population of players 2010-11-29T21:18:15 my above scenario that is 2010-11-29T21:18:27 jus tlike 1/x for large enough values of x.. becomes 0 2010-11-29T21:19:06 Anyway I really need to finish my post on why a few repeat games were played 2010-11-29T21:19:22 Try this exercise: Pick a random profile. Look at his games and note his rank. Click on the first player he lost to. Note his rank. Repeat. See if you ever get to #1. 2010-11-29T21:20:38 this is probably why elo isn't used to determine world champions in chess or tennis, or .... it is just a best _guess_ at people's strengths. 2010-11-29T21:22:08 more likely because humans don't have the time to play the number of games required to find the true best player 2010-11-29T21:22:23 *** Rubicon-|-Cross has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2010-11-29T21:22:28 Try starting at http://ai-contest.com/profile.php?user_id=4147 or at http://ai-contest.com/profile.php?user_id=10154 2010-11-29T21:22:30 that does make it difficult :) 2010-11-29T21:22:59 and actually there is a study that showed across several different professional sports with quite different season lengths and playoff systems ... 2010-11-29T21:23:18 i don't remember how it worked, but the game theory stuff i have read about voting systems implies that this is a problem there too. there is no clear cut way of always determining the winner of a vote. fortunately, bocsimacko is so far ahead that i don't think #1 will be questioned. 2010-11-29T21:23:24 they all converged to approximately the same rather low (30%) chance of the true best player/team winning the championship 2010-11-29T21:23:39 janzert: yes, very true. 2010-11-29T21:23:46 haven't seen that in a whiel. 2010-11-29T21:23:48 while. 2010-11-29T21:24:09 Humans are less predictable than programs, and there's injuries and weather and so forth, so I don't think that's comparable. 2010-11-29T21:24:14 I think humans like to see the underdog win too much to actually favor the best system of choosing the top player 2010-11-29T21:24:22 *** rhinobot has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-11-29T21:24:31 theother thing with humans.. 2010-11-29T21:24:39 is humans change in quality of play over time 2010-11-29T21:24:46 they get tired, and drunk, and old, etc. 2010-11-29T21:25:12 * eburnette thinks 2 out of 3 ain't bad 2010-11-29T21:25:17 i think my bot drinks when i am not looking. my glass keeps emptying. 2010-11-29T21:26:07 if that's the case though it's really surprising how consistent it is from say american football with what 8(?) game regular season to baseball with 162 games in the season 2010-11-29T21:26:47 it's been a long time since I read it but if I remember I think they also looked at hockey and soccer 2010-11-29T21:26:53 i think so. 2010-11-29T21:27:56 *** Rubicon-|-Cross has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T21:29:06 *** rebelxt_ has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-11-29T21:34:03 anyone seen an interesting draw game yet? 2010-11-29T21:35:06 Is this practical for ai contests? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_system_tournament 2010-11-29T21:36:00 *** Appleman1234 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-11-29T21:36:44 yes and no 2010-11-29T21:37:24 if you're just holding a closed (players stay the same through out) then yes for sure 2010-11-29T21:38:27 it actually probably works better for computers than humans 2010-11-29T21:38:53 since computers don't generally start playing differently once they have no chance of winning the tournament 2010-11-29T21:38:59 http://www.wizards.com/dci/downloads/TOHndBk_Feb_5_07.pdf looks interesting, a combination of swiss and elimination 2010-11-29T21:39:37 take a look at the elimination tournament system used by the arimaa community 2010-11-29T21:40:03 it is actually quite good, especially for situations where the number of games is extremely constrained 2010-11-29T21:40:15 quite good at choosing the correct top player that is 2010-11-29T21:40:22 not at giving an overall order 2010-11-29T21:40:48 those are two separate and somewhat conflicting concerns 2010-11-29T21:41:03 triple elimination after picking top 8? 2010-11-29T21:41:04 we discussed swiss a few days ago quite a bit. lavalamp was a fan of an extremely long swiss system, and it seemed like a good idea. 2010-11-29T21:41:50 but now I really am closing this window so I'll get this forum post completed I've been working on for the last hour and a half :P 2010-11-29T21:42:52 *** Appleman1234 has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T21:43:19 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T21:43:36 @ranking 2010-11-29T21:43:43 eburnette: Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3949), jimrogerz(3742), Slin-.-(3732), _iouri_(3726), _Astek_(3722), GreenTea(3722), george(3700), Accoun(3698), protocolocon(3696), asavis(3653) 2010-11-29T21:44:42 hmm tied 2010-11-29T21:44:56 Accoun moves up a little, asavis replaced Raschi 2010-11-29T21:46:26 Well at least #1 is clear. mega1 where is that blog post with the source? 2010-11-29T21:47:33 @seen mega1 2010-11-29T21:47:33 eburnette: mega1 was last seen in #aichallenge 5 hours, 10 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: Error323: I did, unfortunately. 2010-11-29T21:48:25 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3949), jimrogerz(3742), Slin-.-(3732), _iouri_(3726), _Astek_(3722), GreenTea(3722), george(3700), Accoun(3698), protocolocon(3696), asavis(3653) 2010-11-29T21:48:27 Guess he decided he has the $1million wrapped up and went to bed :) 2010-11-29T21:51:33 Yay, I'm #1 in US Java bots that begin with the letter "e". :) 2010-11-29T21:51:56 *** AlliedEnvy_ is now known as AlliedEnvy 2010-11-29T21:52:44 the only problem with swiss, is that it's advantageous to lose the first couple games, in most sports 2010-11-29T21:53:04 asumign you aren't a contendor for first place that is 2010-11-29T21:56:34 *** eburnette has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-11-29T22:00:51 *** medrimonia has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-11-29T22:09:03 like a game every 10 mins: nice 2010-11-29T22:09:57 what do you guys think of jimrogerz being #2 now? seems like rankings are still moving significantly 2010-11-29T22:12:18 only thing uncontested is #1 2010-11-29T22:13:28 I wouldn't be surprised if the places from #2 onwards are still unstable at the end of the finals 2010-11-29T22:14:29 well, with 4500people, and a range of 4000 elo's, it'd be expected to take about 200k games per person, to make the scores stop fluctuating by more then 1-2 points? 2010-11-29T22:14:41 *** medrimonia has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T22:15:03 *** winexception has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T22:15:22 wow, this could take a while 2010-11-29T22:15:50 burny: why 200k games? 2010-11-29T22:16:22 math 2010-11-29T22:16:38 care to explain? 2010-11-29T22:17:05 well for example, if 2 bots are suposed to be 100 apart.. 2010-11-29T22:17:24 and it's suposed to be 62:48 win ratio.. 2010-11-29T22:18:00 if there's 200 games, the range is likely to be anywhere from about 65:60.. 2010-11-29T22:18:16 *** winexception1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2010-11-29T22:18:21 which is an ELO range of about 40points? 2010-11-29T22:19:07 hmm.. 2010-11-29T22:20:15 after 5 games.. it'd probably be anywhere from 20-100%.. which is an elo range of like 500 or so? 2010-11-29T22:21:03 what do you mean by between 20% and 100%? 2010-11-29T22:21:38 it's unlikely that the weaker bot would win 5/5 2010-11-29T22:21:55 but it's reasonably likely that they'd win anwhere from 0 to 4 games 2010-11-29T22:22:06 and expected that they'd win 2 2010-11-29T22:22:10 *** winexception has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2010-11-29T22:22:51 at an elo range of 500 they'd expect to win 0, I should think 2010-11-29T22:22:55 500 is like 05% 2010-11-29T22:22:58 95% 2010-11-29T22:23:09 no.. this is for the same 2 bots 2010-11-29T22:23:16 the bots 'real' elo range, is 100 2010-11-29T22:23:42 but based on 5 games.. their win ratio, could indicate an elo range of up to 500 2010-11-29T22:23:47 oh ok, I see where you are getting at 2010-11-29T22:24:04 *** Naktibalda has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-11-29T22:24:08 after 200games, it's likely to be a range of 40ish 2010-11-29T22:24:42 I don't know how to deal with this type of distribution, but 200k seems very high 2010-11-29T22:25:14 *** Marco_L has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T22:26:00 *** superflit has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T22:27:40 I think because you are only looking at the pairs of bots individually? 2010-11-29T22:27:43 wtf? go play minecraft? 2010-11-29T22:27:49 it's not like the results are independant 2010-11-29T22:27:52 *** Marco_L is now known as Frontier 2010-11-29T22:27:57 200k games, is for 1-2points range.. 2010-11-29T22:28:06 are any bots expected to be within 1-2 of each other? 2010-11-29T22:28:49 any of the ones we care about that is 2010-11-29T22:29:03 ah i see, you are multiplying the range by the number of games 2010-11-29T22:29:18 I thought 1-2 points was the error 2010-11-29T22:29:42 it is 2010-11-29T22:30:41 but like the top 100 has a range of roughly 500 now.. so if they're within about a 5point error range.. it'll be pretty accurate 2010-11-29T22:32:51 I don't know how to calculate this, so I'll shut up now :) 2010-11-29T22:38:01 probability, and the definition of what an ELO is 2010-11-29T22:38:55 i wrote some python code to do experiments with this idea. it only really helps to see how certain we can be that one player is better than another, but not by how much. 2010-11-29T22:38:59 git://gist.github.com/721108.git 2010-11-29T22:39:29 calling : run_many_simulations(estimate_win_percentage(2), 10000, 1000) 2010-11-29T22:39:29 2010-11-29T22:40:05 gives : (287, 4, 709) so the player with a 2 point elo advantage will win most of the games, 709 out of 1000 times, if each time, the two play 10,000 games. 2010-11-29T22:40:25 i guess estimate_win_percentage is really esimate _lose_ percentage 2010-11-29T22:41:05 709 out of 1k, for 2point dif?.. isn't that even more than a 200point dif is suposed to be? 2010-11-29T22:41:21 er.. nearly what a 200dif should be I mean 2010-11-29T22:41:31 one thousand runs, of 10,000 games each. 2010-11-29T22:41:58 the stronger player comes out on top ~70% of the time... so this indicates that 10,000 games is not enough. 2010-11-29T22:42:08 With 100,000 games, it is %95. 2010-11-29T22:43:51 why would more games, make them win more often? 2010-11-29T22:44:52 more games makes the "law of large numbers" take effect. the more games they play, the more likely the results will match the expected 49.8 to 50.2 ratio. 2010-11-29T22:45:15 basically increasing the confidence in the results. 2010-11-29T22:45:30 the other question is whether 49.8:50.2 ratio is really large enough to care about? 2010-11-29T22:45:32 how does winning 95% come close to a 49.8 to 50.2 ratio? 2010-11-29T22:45:38 sigh: i think it is not. 2010-11-29T22:46:06 +2 elo points = expected win rate of 50.2% 2010-11-29T22:46:24 dmj: where does the stuff in estimate_win_percentage come from? 2010-11-29T22:46:30 ohh.... 2010-11-29T22:46:38 I think I know what you meant.. 2010-11-29T22:47:08 that if you run 10k games, 1000 times.. that there's a 70% chance, that 10000 games, will indicate teh correct 'stronger' player 2010-11-29T22:47:10 davidjliu: http://remi.coulom.free.fr/Bayesian-Elo/#theory 2010-11-29T22:47:27 i think the wikipedia page on elo has the formula too. 2010-11-29T22:47:31 burny: yes, that is what dmj111 is doing 2010-11-29T22:47:34 burny: yes. 2010-11-29T22:47:39 sounds like my 200k games for 2point accuracy, was fairly accurate then 2010-11-29T22:47:56 200,000 games gives the stronger player winning 995 out of 1000. 2010-11-29T22:48:02 okay 2010-11-29T22:48:13 can't we just do this with statistics and stuff? 2010-11-29T22:48:26 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3936), jimrogerz(3741), _iouri_(3726), Slin-.-(3726), _Astek_(3725), GreenTea(3718), Accoun(3707), george(3703), protocolocon(3700), asavis(3652) 2010-11-29T22:48:33 but even then, these numbers are if pairs are treated independently? 2010-11-29T22:48:36 i don't know enough stats, so I always go to doing monte carlo. 2010-11-29T22:48:41 shouldn't even have to run the bots.. just use statistics on teh code 2010-11-29T22:49:16 I think I am trying to make the point that small elo differences are really insignificant. Or at least impractical for us to worry about for this little contest. 2010-11-29T22:49:21 I don't know the math atall 2010-11-29T22:49:28 I just used logic, and guessed 2010-11-29T22:49:30 dmj111: agree 2010-11-29T22:50:18 dmj, the thing that is more meaningful.. isn't the win/loss ratio, after X games.. 2010-11-29T22:50:37 but, the standard deviation of the measured elo, after x games 2010-11-29T22:51:24 eg. if it is 'suposed' to be 2 higher.. what're the odds that it's 4 higher? 2010-11-29T22:51:38 4, or more, that is 2010-11-29T22:51:46 that is a whole different ball of wax, but yes, you could see how often the "correct" rating difference is calculated. or, more likely, how often is it in the a range of the correct answer. 2010-11-29T22:51:52 although, I guess those are nearly identical things.. 2010-11-29T22:52:11 the odds that it's 0 or lower, would be very similar to odds of being 4 or higher 2010-11-29T22:54:08 using statistics, given two bots of "actual" difference 2 elo, it would require 82000 games for the better one to win 95% of the time 2010-11-29T22:55:25 davidjliu: excellent. need to learn to do that... 2010-11-29T22:56:35 but that's assuming they're only playing against each other the entire time 2010-11-29T22:56:46 but I guess none of this actually makes any sense seeing that there's a finite number of maps 2010-11-29T22:56:55 needs 1point dif, to be accurate to within 2points 2010-11-29T22:57:39 davidjliu: yes. this is all a lot of simplifications. i think the biggest point is that a few points are meaningless. a 200 point lead, on the other hand, is not :) 2010-11-29T22:57:51 heh, this is very true 2010-11-29T22:58:00 although I would like to point out that I'm beating you by 5 WHOLE POINTS 2010-11-29T22:58:02 OMG 2010-11-29T22:58:24 doh!!! 2010-11-29T22:58:27 *** rebelxt_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T22:59:08 davidjliu: dmj111 is sneaky... he starts with a low score and then climbs up while no one's looking 2010-11-29T22:59:37 he's been doing that since the finals started :P 2010-11-29T22:59:39 bhasker: hehe, same ELO 2010-11-29T22:59:39 I guess I'll have to stay up all night to make sure he doesn't pull any moves 2010-11-29T22:59:43 we'll see. my wife is getting a kick out of this... she keeps going "oh no!! you dropped 20 places!!" 2010-11-29T23:00:46 dmj111: My mother started doing the same. That's why I quit uploading new code at a point :p 2010-11-29T23:00:54 dmj111: darn, I lost. I think you'll be doing up a place 2010-11-29T23:01:12 hehe, wish wives could help with testing or something. they do help with cheering though! 2010-11-29T23:01:15 i am wondering when wins and losses will quit changing the scores much. 2010-11-29T23:01:48 my wife is a QA engineer. i told her my code was untestable though. just like at work :) 2010-11-29T23:02:09 dmj111: i no longer see any ELO jumps bigger than 3 points.. but losing/winning streaks still result in some significant swings.. 2010-11-29T23:02:59 currently each win/loss effects elo about 4 points? 2010-11-29T23:03:16 dmj111: untestable hehe. you should have asked her to test sniping, funneling, etc ;-) 2010-11-29T23:03:48 yeah.... she was very encouraging, though, and let me spend more time on this than I should have. 2010-11-29T23:04:02 oh, my code is posted. 2010-11-29T23:04:04 just cause it doesn't work, doesn't mean it can't be tested :P 2010-11-29T23:04:20 ooh, I want to test v dmj now 2010-11-29T23:04:29 darn. 2010-11-29T23:04:44 let me get the link... 2010-11-29T23:04:51 https://bitbucket.org/dmj111/planetwars_bot 2010-11-29T23:04:56 i just posted my code as well.. turned out my bot is a simple version of iouri's ;-) 2010-11-29T23:05:19 i think i might post some of my previous submissions too. they were a lot cleaner, if weaker. 2010-11-29T23:06:54 I should post my original 20line submission that ranked 300ish 2010-11-29T23:07:27 or 800ish maybe, I forget 2010-11-29T23:08:09 https://github.com/apinkin/google_ai_bot is mine 2010-11-29T23:11:14 urg, I should put mine up sometime... 2010-11-29T23:12:41 who wins the most effective code competition? (lines of code * rank) 2010-11-29T23:12:57 lines of code / rank you mean? 2010-11-29T23:13:06 1 / (loc * rank) 2010-11-29T23:13:11 I think, ELO divided by lines of code would be a better measure though 2010-11-29T23:13:29 i would bet on the lisp bot. 2010-11-29T23:13:45 mega1 aka bocsimacko? 2010-11-29T23:13:49 ELO / bytes of code 2010-11-29T23:13:55 * sigh uploads 0 line bot 2010-11-29T23:14:01 oh.. 2010-11-29T23:14:02 sigh: NOOOOO 2010-11-29T23:14:10 ELO / cpu time per game(not per move) 2010-11-29T23:14:26 my 0 line bot would still do pretty well there 2010-11-29T23:14:58 you want HIGH value for ELO/cpu 2010-11-29T23:15:14 heh, this game is kinda fun to watch due to some crazy coordinated attacks in action (up to 10 planets): http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=9225309 2010-11-29T23:15:15 0 cpu time gets you a very high value 2010-11-29T23:15:20 burny: That sounds good... although you probably coded in C like I did and dont have to worry much ^^ 2010-11-29T23:16:12 you won't get 0cpu time 2010-11-29T23:16:21 it's still gota return successfully 2010-11-29T23:16:30 and take the paramaters, etc. 2010-11-29T23:16:58 and.. returning instantly will give you a negative elo 2010-11-29T23:17:26 elo is anchored to 0 :P 2010-11-29T23:17:34 lowest elo 2010-11-29T23:18:18 on the website, ya 2010-11-29T23:18:22 yup 2010-11-29T23:21:17 some other coding games use their own interpreted languages. how do you like that idea? 2010-11-29T23:21:48 what is the advantage of that? 2010-11-29T23:22:40 hehe, the advantage is that every instruction there has a fixed cost and the conditions are exactly the same for everyone. 2010-11-29T23:22:52 I like it like I like the subway.. 2010-11-29T23:23:04 it stinks, and bound to be full of bugs 2010-11-29T23:23:36 the bugs are part of the game! 2010-11-29T23:23:40 :P 2010-11-29T23:23:47 burny: Did you ever play RoboCom? 2010-11-29T23:23:52 @google RoboCom 2010-11-29T23:23:53 Frontier: Robocom Systems International: ; Robocom Systems International > Solutions > Warehouse Management ...: ; Warehouse Management Solutions - Robocom Systems International: ; RoboCom - The Programming Game: ; Iowa Alcoholic Beverages Division Selects Robocom (2 more messages) 2010-11-29T23:23:54 no 2010-11-29T23:24:33 *** Migi32 has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-11-29T23:26:16 It works like that: You have a starting robot with loads of instruction slots that can construct new bots. The time that takes depends on the size of the constructed bots. Then you can copy programs from the starting bot to the new bot and give it a 'personality' like that. They can be small quickly replicating bots that just spam the board. 2010-11-29T23:26:34 Or they can be programmed to infect and take over enemy bots. 2010-11-29T23:26:55 *** rebelxt_ has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-11-29T23:27:12 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Quit: bhasker) 2010-11-29T23:28:43 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T23:30:57 *** flag has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal) 2010-11-29T23:31:51 The 'programs' are made up from modules or 'banks'. There are instructions to do calls into other banks so you can reuse code and modify your programs at runtime to some extent. 2010-11-29T23:32:29 1 elo diff now rebel 2010-11-29T23:32:39 he's gone 2010-11-29T23:36:20 *** rebelxt_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-11-29T23:37:44 http://atlantis.cyty.com/robocom/download/RobSci_E.html 2010-11-29T23:42:08 *** rebelxt_ has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2010-11-29T23:45:19 *** dmj111 has quit IRC (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2010-11-29T23:48:27 Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3928), _iouri_(3730), jimrogerz(3729), Slin-.-(3728), _Astek_(3723), GreenTea(3717), protocolocon(3700), Accoun(3698), george(3697), asavis(3657)