2010-12-20T00:13:07 *** Frontier has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T00:23:13 i might write a better bot to see what some cooler games look like 2010-12-20T00:23:31 or maybe just do rage bot first 2010-12-20T00:25:15 please make a rage bot. once the game has two 'characters' playing it will be much more interesting 2010-12-20T00:26:50 yeah okay, rage bot is easy 2010-12-20T00:27:12 i really need to fix the engine issue with memory 2010-12-20T00:27:22 i can't do games of more than like 150 turns 2010-12-20T00:27:29 but i can't for the life of me work out the issue 2010-12-20T00:32:28 How about making all the objects that might eat memory local in some function. When you return back from the function call to your main() the memory gets cleared it it is still claimed by those objects. By making the objects global one by one you can see which is the problem. 2010-12-20T00:32:41 Would that work? 2010-12-20T00:33:31 hmmm maybe 2010-12-20T00:33:45 i tried commenting out sections last night, and think i've reduced it to my get moves function 2010-12-20T00:33:59 i'm wondering if maybe it's something to do with the way i get information from the player 2010-12-20T00:35:07 the engine also seems to chew up about as much memory as the two running bots, so that also makes me think maybe the io has issues 2010-12-20T00:36:11 Frontier: i think jeff is going to start working on an engine too 2010-12-20T00:36:20 so hopefully that can just replace my pile of.. 2010-12-20T00:36:41 i gave him the format your visualiser is currently passing and told him to talk to you if he wants to deviate from that 2010-12-20T00:37:06 I don't think he will snip with the fingers and be done either ;). But it sounds like this is coming closer to being official then. 2010-12-20T00:39:22 not so sure 2010-12-20T00:39:31 i think we should still see what people think 2010-12-20T00:39:41 delt0r seems to be less excited by the idea every day 2010-12-20T00:40:04 and the new game he's working on sounds quite cool 2010-12-20T00:40:14 but yeah, i want ants :D 2010-12-20T00:46:55 *** j3camero has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2010-12-20T01:33:14 *** antimatroid has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T01:34:54 *** antimatroid1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-12-20T01:41:33 *** Utkarsh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-12-20T01:46:32 *** Utkarsh has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T02:00:18 *** Utkarsh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2010-12-20T02:04:56 *** smellyhippy has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2010-12-20T02:05:43 *** Utkarsh has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T02:09:11 *** smellyhippy has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T02:09:11 *** smellyhippy has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T02:09:27 *** medrimonia1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T02:11:32 *** medrimonia has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2010-12-20T02:13:06 *** Utkarsh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-12-20T02:17:21 *** Utkarsh has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T02:31:40 *** sigh has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-12-20T02:55:44 *** Palmik has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T03:01:52 *** mega1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T03:12:17 mega1: http://marco-leise.homedns.org/antgui/v2/ 2010-12-20T03:12:25 like/dislike? 2010-12-20T03:12:33 you don't actually see the whole map when you start 2010-12-20T03:16:00 is the goal to have more ants then the opponent? 2010-12-20T03:16:02 *than 2010-12-20T03:16:18 if you get an ant on their base, you win, otherwise yes, max ants at the end of the game 2010-12-20T03:16:39 if ants land on the same square, friend ants fuse and then the two enemies fight to the death, essentially (i do that in one step) 2010-12-20T03:16:57 and an ant spawns on the home base after deposits if grains are there 2010-12-20T03:17:23 you can also "attack" an enemy ant adjacent to you, which is inflicted before walk moves are made 2010-12-20T03:17:28 how can two friendly ants land on the same square? 2010-12-20T03:17:37 they seemed to avoid each other 2010-12-20T03:18:04 the bot is currently written to not move them onto each other 2010-12-20T03:18:17 but it can happen, and you map not be able to move an ant on home base before the next spawns 2010-12-20T03:18:46 i don't expect people to want to fuse their own ants, it was just a way of letting people sort of walk anywhere that isn't a wall 2010-12-20T03:18:48 what's the 5/0? 2010-12-20T03:18:55 hp/harvest 2010-12-20T03:19:04 limits? 2010-12-20T03:19:07 there is no limit to hp level or harvest 2010-12-20T03:19:14 max starting grains on a square is 9 2010-12-20T03:19:18 due to char map 2010-12-20T03:19:44 you can deposit harvest to adjacent ants too, so set up supply chains 2010-12-20T03:19:45 so the goal is to solve the foraging problem better than real ants 2010-12-20T03:19:53 yes, and invade their base 2010-12-20T03:20:11 you don't know where their base is at the start though 2010-12-20T03:20:15 the algorithm used by real ants is mostly known 2010-12-20T03:20:17 because you only have a certain view radius 2010-12-20T03:20:41 (only the foraging part) 2010-12-20T03:20:52 yeah, foraging is the easy part though 2010-12-20T03:21:06 hard is defending base/invading theirs and fights 2010-12-20T03:21:23 the linked game looked like a traffic jam simulator 2010-12-20T03:21:46 yeah, maps could be bigger and grains diminished 2010-12-20T03:21:56 and that bot strategy is rather stupid 2010-12-20T03:22:23 so what determines the number of ants? 2010-12-20T03:22:34 what do you mean? 2010-12-20T03:22:44 there can only be one ant in a square at the start of a turn 2010-12-20T03:23:03 it doesn't matter what the hp of each ant is 2010-12-20T03:23:15 when are new ants spawned? 2010-12-20T03:23:17 *** narnach1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T03:23:17 *** narnach1 is now known as narnach_mb 2010-12-20T03:23:27 grain is necessary 2010-12-20T03:23:35 is there another condition? 2010-12-20T03:23:44 after deposits/attacks/harvests and if a grain is on home base 2010-12-20T03:23:55 and it diminishes the number of grains there by 1 2010-12-20T03:24:04 that could require 5 grains for a new ant too 2010-12-20T03:24:07 or any other number 2010-12-20T03:24:19 if there is grain a new ant is always spawned? 2010-12-20T03:24:26 yes 2010-12-20T03:24:31 it will fuse if it has to 2010-12-20T03:24:38 no upkeep for ants? 2010-12-20T03:24:47 but if an ant is there but moves that turn, it doesn't fuse 2010-12-20T03:25:02 upkeep? hp gains? 2010-12-20T03:25:10 if two ants fuse, their hp combines, same as harvest 2010-12-20T03:25:18 if you land on an enemy ant and it dies, you get its harvest 2010-12-20T03:25:19 "pay 1 grain per 10 turns for each ant" 2010-12-20T03:25:38 nothing like that atm 2010-12-20T03:25:52 it's still being worked out 2010-12-20T03:26:02 so I can build a superant by fusing 5 2010-12-20T03:26:09 and it will have 25hp 2010-12-20T03:26:10 yes, but i think it's a bad move 2010-12-20T03:26:22 depends on battle resolution 2010-12-20T03:26:32 25hp vs 5hp => ??? 2010-12-20T03:26:34 similarly, if two enemy ants are adjacent, your best move is to attack the enemy, not try to move onto them etc. 2010-12-20T03:26:43 but that changes when multiple ants are adjacent 2010-12-20T03:26:57 new ant with 20hp 2010-12-20T03:27:17 you may want to do it when charging their base 2010-12-20T03:27:17 what does an ant see? 2010-12-20T03:27:28 anything it can reach within 6 moves 2010-12-20T03:27:39 including through walls (i think that makes it more interesting, but easy to change) 2010-12-20T03:27:49 your base can see the same distance every turn too 2010-12-20T03:28:52 since edges are wraped (yay torus game) i also translate the maps by a random amount after generating, so you have no idea where their home base could be, otherwise it had to be one of a certain set from possible symmetries 2010-12-20T03:29:01 torus is good 2010-12-20T03:29:39 oh, and the map gen ensures you can reach every non-wall square from your base 2010-12-20T03:29:43 how does fog of war work? 2010-12-20T03:29:57 you only get new information for a currently seeable square each turn 2010-12-20T03:30:02 you are welcome to store old information 2010-12-20T03:30:30 http://pastebin.com/HKqtiP0h 2010-12-20T03:30:44 that's a more detailed version of input/output move ordering etc. 2010-12-20T03:31:03 *** p4p4p4 has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T03:31:41 and on the technical side, how is it ensured that ants only have information about what they see and there is no sharing of information? 2010-12-20T03:31:51 all ants are the one process 2010-12-20T03:31:57 they all know what each other know 2010-12-20T03:32:03 ah 2010-12-20T03:32:06 you can't have home bases, one process and prevent that 2010-12-20T03:32:19 yes 2010-12-20T03:32:35 I thought from the ant theme that it's a swarm game 2010-12-20T03:32:46 delt0r has a different spec where each ant gets fed relative information in the one process 2010-12-20T03:32:59 but really one will just spend the start coordination who is who 2010-12-20T03:33:01 and where 2010-12-20T03:33:09 it was, but it's hard to do 2010-12-20T03:33:18 yes 2010-12-20T03:33:19 this is just the game i came up with from the discussion 2010-12-20T03:34:13 i don't think it's as hard as planet wars though 2010-12-20T03:34:18 the more that i think about it 2010-12-20T03:34:37 it's hard to tell beforehand 2010-12-20T03:34:48 true, i thought planet wars would be easier 2010-12-20T03:35:02 but painting a discrete grid for movement is pretty trivial 2010-12-20T03:35:35 coordinating them to not screw each other up might be a bit tricky 2010-12-20T03:37:27 I think planet wars with a battle resolution that's less linear would be a different game. 2010-12-20T03:38:30 not that I'm proposing another variant of pw. 2010-12-20T03:38:51 yes, proportional growth would throw things completely 2010-12-20T03:40:22 I remember playing simant, it was pretty boring, but it has not combat as far as I can recall. 2010-12-20T03:40:53 not combat? 2010-12-20T03:41:07 my favourite thing about these games is the simultaneous game aspect 2010-12-20T03:41:25 they also result in faster paced games 2010-12-20T03:41:40 well, often 2010-12-20T03:42:00 SimAnt: oh well... :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ucLyqEboGM 2010-12-20T03:42:39 that's cool 2010-12-20T03:43:00 *** Utkarsh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2010-12-20T03:44:40 so I don't know how good this game would be 2010-12-20T03:46:23 hmmm yeah, the battles the whole point of the game 2010-12-20T03:46:38 i'm throwing together a slightly better bot, hopefully that will give me some battles 2010-12-20T03:48:34 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T03:48:48 *** Utkarsh has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T04:03:14 *** amstan has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-12-20T04:09:01 *** antimatroid1 has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T04:10:29 *** antimatroid has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2010-12-20T04:15:09 *** iNtERrUpT has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-12-20T04:15:11 *** boegel has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T04:16:42 *** perror has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T04:21:30 *** Epona has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T04:24:02 *** p4p4p4 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection timed out) 2010-12-20T04:25:46 *** p4p4p4 has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T04:34:25 i very much despise the person who took antimatroid on github 2010-12-20T04:34:49 I despise my dreams 2010-12-20T04:34:51 morning 2010-12-20T04:35:20 evening :) 2010-12-20T04:35:43 glad to see your idea is like... almost done 2010-12-20T04:35:55 i don't like having to pick a new username 2010-12-20T04:36:03 that muggle! 2010-12-20T04:36:14 ive got three different ones 2010-12-20T04:36:17 the engine is a mess 2010-12-20T04:36:21 pikachu, erika, epona 2010-12-20T04:36:31 everyone and their pokemon 2010-12-20T04:36:45 damn, kirby is taken 2010-12-20T04:36:48 lol 2010-12-20T04:37:05 i'll find myself a pokemon 2010-12-20T04:37:11 *** iNtERrUpT has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T04:37:11 an actual pokemon 2010-12-20T04:37:17 non of that psudo pokemon crap 2010-12-20T04:37:18 what was your favorite? 2010-12-20T04:37:27 *** iNtERrUpT has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-12-20T04:37:35 about to work it out :P 2010-12-20T04:37:37 it's been a while 2010-12-20T04:37:40 lol 2010-12-20T04:37:49 glad to see you played it though 2010-12-20T04:38:21 original red :) 2010-12-20T04:38:28 if I may ask, how old are you? 2010-12-20T04:38:30 22 2010-12-20T04:38:42 got it in primary school, like grade 4 or 5 i think 2010-12-20T04:38:48 so 98-99 maybe? 2010-12-20T04:38:55 oh wow 2010-12-20T04:39:04 how old are you? 2010-12-20T04:39:07 19 2010-12-20T04:39:17 ah, you probably didn't get into it until the cards came out? 2010-12-20T04:39:24 yellow version 2010-12-20T04:39:32 meh, i've never even played that :P 2010-12-20T04:39:33 I had that 2010-12-20T04:39:39 its the same as red and blue 2010-12-20T04:39:44 with a pikachu following you 2010-12-20T04:39:48 lil more color 2010-12-20T04:40:08 my first game though was zelda 2010-12-20T04:40:17 talk about mind blowing 2010-12-20T04:41:34 my brother goe a nes when i was young 2010-12-20T04:41:38 mario and duck shoot ftw 2010-12-20T04:41:42 then came the snes 2010-12-20T04:42:55 im glad to have grown up with videogames 2010-12-20T04:43:03 im pretty sure people who didn't 2010-12-20T04:43:06 are lacking something 2010-12-20T04:44:09 maybe. idk 2010-12-20T04:44:12 just a theory 2010-12-20T04:46:22 haha, i don't know about that 2010-12-20T04:46:30 i'd probably argue more the reverse 2010-12-20T04:46:37 someone took antimatroid? o_O 2010-12-20T04:46:40 *** Naktibalda has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T04:46:43 maybe 2010-12-20T04:46:52 i don't really play video games anymore excepting flash games cause they are awesome for procrastination 2010-12-20T04:46:56 sigh: they're evil 2010-12-20T04:47:05 I'm suprised I got sigh on github :P 2010-12-20T04:47:14 that was during the planets wars comp 2010-12-20T04:47:26 yeah, that's decent 2010-12-20T04:47:29 antimatroid1, how did you get over them? 2010-12-20T04:47:53 Epona: lost interest 2010-12-20T04:48:06 didn't really pay attention in school til uni either 2010-12-20T04:48:14 I can get over games easy because I suck at them :D 2010-12-20T04:48:30 sigh: that probably helps me too :P 2010-12-20T04:48:31 never went to uni. don't plan on it tbh 2010-12-20T04:48:46 i prefer the ai games because it's more about the strategy i come up with rather than how i can play it there and then 2010-12-20T04:49:02 uni is a lot of fun if you take fun/challenging courses 2010-12-20T04:49:16 I wish I just knew more about linux so I could participate 2010-12-20T04:49:20 and python 2010-12-20T04:49:29 gets so frustrating 2010-12-20T04:49:35 for this comp? 2010-12-20T04:49:39 i don't know anything about linux, and the only two things i've ever written in python are the two map generators 2010-12-20T04:49:42 you don't need to know much linux 2010-12-20T04:49:59 it's a pretty easy language 2010-12-20T04:50:33 ah 2010-12-20T04:50:34 i can't decide on a pokemon username 2010-12-20T04:50:39 well 2010-12-20T04:50:40 i can't believe kirby was taken :C 2010-12-20T04:50:47 whats your personality like 2010-12-20T04:50:49 kirby is not a pokemon O_O 2010-12-20T04:50:51 i bet i'll decide on one and it'll be taken 2010-12-20T04:50:57 you seem like an Abra 2010-12-20T04:50:58 no, but that was my first choice 2010-12-20T04:51:06 abra sucked 2010-12-20T04:51:27 abra could eventually get psybeam 2010-12-20T04:51:34 one of the best moves ever 2010-12-20T04:52:17 psyduck it is 2010-12-20T04:52:24 that's not taken? 2010-12-20T04:52:51 its not, but my email is, i may have already taken antimatroid ehe 2010-12-20T04:53:07 hahaha 2010-12-20T04:53:57 haha, you've uploaded your tronbot 2010-12-20T04:53:58 >so lucky to get epona 2010-12-20T04:54:03 yeah, that's you 2010-12-20T04:55:19 i uploaded tron bot? hmm, maybe jet created the account 2010-12-20T04:55:52 well i've claimed it back now 2010-12-20T04:55:56 i kind of want psyduck now 2010-12-20T04:56:01 heh 2010-12-20T04:56:04 it lets me do one change, but then that's it 2010-12-20T04:56:17 one change? 2010-12-20T04:56:35 Change your usernamePlease note that you are only given ONE rename. I understand, I want to change my username 2010-12-20T04:58:01 oh, that's a bit odd 2010-12-20T04:58:19 yeah, i definitely didn't add that tron file 2010-12-20T04:58:28 so.. how do i add something to github? :P 2010-12-20T04:58:44 Dunno, never done it 2010-12-20T04:58:59 hmmm... I might as well upload my pw bot 2010-12-20T04:59:45 hmmm it have details i'll try to follow them 2010-12-20T05:02:59 bah, so much effort 2010-12-20T05:03:00 cbf 2010-12-20T05:03:02 haha 2010-12-20T05:04:27 there should be a site like that where i can just give it a bunch of files to uploade and what language to do highlighting for 2010-12-20T05:04:34 like pastebin, but for multiple files 2010-12-20T05:05:01 comeone... it's not that hard... I've already uploaded my entire planet wars bot just now 2010-12-20T05:05:07 *come on 2010-12-20T05:05:57 have you got git installed on your comp yet? 2010-12-20T05:06:22 its instlaling atm 2010-12-20T05:06:29 done 2010-12-20T05:07:43 what are you meant to type to add the public key? 2010-12-20T05:08:01 have you got a public key/private key pair? 2010-12-20T05:08:44 i dunno? 2010-12-20T05:09:02 it says "Add your public key" with a link that has some key there 2010-12-20T05:09:08 but no mention as to what commands before it etc. 2010-12-20T05:09:52 what is saying that? 2010-12-20T05:10:40 some page giving me instructions to make a repository 2010-12-20T05:10:43 the global setup part 2010-12-20T05:11:04 https://github.com/antimatroid/Antwars not sure that'll load the same 2010-12-20T05:11:56 I see an empty repo 2010-12-20T05:12:06 you need to push your code to it 2010-12-20T05:13:05 go to your ant wars directory and do a `git init` 2010-12-20T05:15:06 then `git add *`, then `git commit` 2010-12-20T05:15:23 then you have a local git repo which you can push up to github 2010-12-20T05:16:35 *** yasith has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2010-12-20T05:16:40 okay, give me a minute 2010-12-20T05:17:35 *** aerique has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T05:18:39 i should probably get rid of the .exe's and object files 2010-12-20T05:19:01 how do you then push it? 2010-12-20T05:19:10 yeah, or you can just `git add` files selectively 2010-12-20T05:19:18 using the command that was on the help page 2010-12-20T05:19:32 http://help.github.com/creating-a-repo/ 2010-12-20T05:19:45 im gonna start making objects 2010-12-20T05:19:54 objects? 2010-12-20T05:20:24 what are origin and master? 2010-12-20T05:20:29 do i pass those words? 2010-12-20T05:20:37 yeah 2010-12-20T05:20:44 master is the master branch of your repo 2010-12-20T05:21:12 and origin is refers to the branch that your code originated from 2010-12-20T05:21:57 you only need to change the git@github.com/... thing to your own repo 2010-12-20T05:22:06 okay, i'll do a quick clean then post what is at the moment 2010-12-20T05:24:26 *** p4p4p4 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection timed out) 2010-12-20T05:25:29 sigh; python objects 2010-12-20T05:25:37 so I can get a little more fluent 2010-12-20T05:25:50 ah, i see... good luck :) 2010-12-20T05:25:54 antimatroid1: you haven't used version control stuff yet? 2010-12-20T05:25:55 *** p4p4p4 has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T05:27:08 delt0r___: I don't think he has 2010-12-20T05:27:36 delt0r___: nope :D 2010-12-20T05:27:57 delt0r___: how's the new game coming? 2010-12-20T05:28:01 personally, I think university courses should require students to submit a repo for any programming assignment, and not just the final source 2010-12-20T05:28:27 sigh: utas sucks, we've been over this :P 2010-12-20T05:28:40 sigh: I start them in a repo with hello world 2010-12-20T05:28:51 antimatroid1: it's not just your uni 2010-12-20T05:28:51 Great 2010-12-20T05:28:54 delt0r___: good :) 2010-12-20T05:28:55 is super fun 2010-12-20T05:29:19 the spec will not be so simple... full integer based everything 2010-12-20T05:29:52 so angles are defined as a "complex number" --like a quntinrons... whatever 2010-12-20T05:30:16 but you don't need any trig functions which have some problems with 2ulp in some langs 2010-12-20T05:31:37 *** perror has quit IRC (Quit: Bye all !) 2010-12-20T05:34:19 *** perror has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T05:35:36 how the hell do you edit when it opens vim? 2010-12-20T05:36:22 press i 2010-12-20T05:36:23 i 2010-12-20T05:36:25 insert 2010-12-20T05:36:36 press esc when you are done 2010-12-20T05:36:37 esc :wq 2010-12-20T05:36:47 to write and quit 2010-12-20T05:36:50 wq! 2010-12-20T05:36:53 i thought 2010-12-20T05:37:00 you don't need ! 2010-12-20T05:37:07 oh hmm 2010-12-20T05:37:10 only for quiting without saving changes 2010-12-20T05:37:25 gota know your vim 2010-12-20T05:37:32 for some reason my teacher always said to use the ! 2010-12-20T05:37:34 oh i am no power user 2010-12-20T05:37:37 well, if you have unsaved stuff in other buffers then wq! will screw you up 2010-12-20T05:37:41 maybe it has to do with redhat 2010-12-20T05:37:47 oh 2010-12-20T05:37:56 I would never advise using wq! 2010-12-20T05:38:01 agree 2010-12-20T05:38:08 :wq 2010-12-20T05:38:12 or :q! 2010-12-20T05:38:19 if you want to try again 2010-12-20T05:41:19 sigh: i need to add the public key? 2010-12-20T05:41:39 i don't get wtf that is 2010-12-20T05:42:13 I think this page is for you: http://help.github.com/msysgit-key-setup/ 2010-12-20T05:42:53 public/private key pair is used for secure authentication 2010-12-20T05:47:35 this shouldn't be this much effort 2010-12-20T05:48:54 an ssh key is a fairly standard thing to have 2010-12-20T05:52:42 hard map related game 2010-12-20T05:52:48 it keeps giving me no such file or directory 2010-12-20T05:52:56 about ants 2010-12-20T05:53:05 Accoun: is that good or bad? 2010-12-20T05:53:16 Accoun: you also can't see the entire map at the start 2010-12-20T05:54:13 someone needs to introduce an occums razor like thing to programming tools 2010-12-20T05:54:22 make them so they fit together as simply as possible 2010-12-20T05:55:27 bah, i cbf with github 2010-12-20T05:55:54 i'm going to have to zip ant stuff for you guys :P 2010-12-20T05:57:32 http://tinyurl.com/antiwars 2010-12-20T05:57:55 there are no make files either :P 2010-12-20T05:59:31 and making games eat alot cpu time 2010-12-20T05:59:40 and no wey to make TCP server 2010-12-20T05:59:43 it fail 2010-12-20T05:59:45 comman call is 2010-12-20T05:59:45 engine.exe "map file path" "gui file path (use receiver.exe)" "bot1 path" "bot2 path" "viewRadius" "maxTurns" "timelimit" 2010-12-20T05:59:57 Accoun: that engine is really really crap, and has horrible memory leak issues 2010-12-20T06:00:02 it's just a test 2010-12-20T06:00:22 i can't find the memory problems, i have looked 2010-12-20T06:02:07 1. no wey to make TCP server 2. to make games need huge cpu time <- cose ants not comunicate and need 1 copy of bot code for each 2010-12-20T06:02:40 haven fo this canadian chiters 2010-12-20T06:03:52 and unsatble game server speed 2010-12-20T06:04:33 Accoun: so fix it 2010-12-20T06:04:38 rezult complety random/tampered 2010-12-20T06:04:51 Accoun: the separate process for each ant has been scrapped 2010-12-20T06:04:54 stuped idea make new 2010-12-20T06:05:27 this canadian no pawer to make it well 2010-12-20T06:05:42 no maind power and no computer pawer 2010-12-20T06:07:24 wow 2010-12-20T06:07:29 antimatroid1: you have an engine? 2010-12-20T06:07:43 rabidus: see link above 2010-12-20T06:07:46 there is a bot there too 2010-12-20T06:07:48 tinyurl 2010-12-20T06:07:54 but there are memory leak issues 2010-12-20T06:07:59 ok 2010-12-20T06:08:00 feel free to solve those for me :) 2010-12-20T06:08:09 i kinda liked it what i saw yesterday 2010-12-20T06:08:11 let me know if you can't get it running 2010-12-20T06:08:15 antimatroid1: get it up @ github 2010-12-20T06:08:26 Error323: i tried and gave up, too much effort 2010-12-20T06:08:35 are you on windows or linux? 2010-12-20T06:08:39 windows 2010-12-20T06:08:42 ah 2010-12-20T06:08:48 then i cannot help you :P 2010-12-20T06:08:52 :P 2010-12-20T06:09:23 there should be a site where i can just upload a bunch of files :( 2010-12-20T06:09:31 well get any revis system, these zips will become a nightmare =) 2010-12-20T06:09:32 muggles 2010-12-20T06:09:49 use google's svn oid 2010-12-20T06:13:56 Error323: i hope that engine doesn't last very long 2010-12-20T06:13:57 it's awful 2010-12-20T06:15:33 antimatroid1: well if you put it in a revisioning system ppl can help improve it 2010-12-20T06:15:40 very easily 2010-12-20T06:15:53 mehffort! :P 2010-12-20T06:18:35 *** delt0r_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T06:19:49 McLeopold disappeared on us 2010-12-20T06:20:27 *** delt0r___ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-12-20T06:24:00 *** Migi32 has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T06:26:02 Error323: I also have a ant engine... 2010-12-20T06:26:41 yes, take a look at that game too 2010-12-20T06:26:50 http://www.mabs.at/ewing/HackAnt.jar 2010-12-20T06:26:54 src included 2010-12-20T06:27:11 delr0r_: what about your new one? i'm quite interested in that 2010-12-20T06:27:24 the post is here:http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1205&start=60#p8279 2010-12-20T06:27:42 antimatroid1: I am adding polish i like it so much 2010-12-20T06:27:57 want to have it have more attention than my ant hack 2010-12-20T06:28:14 so am fishing a nice visulizer and a TCP setup 2010-12-20T06:28:22 + human mode 2010-12-20T06:28:33 may get a server too 2010-12-20T06:28:56 :) 2010-12-20T06:28:58 so it will be a few days... i have xmass shopping today. 2010-12-20T06:29:11 yes, i haven't done that yet either 2010-12-20T06:29:23 buts its cool 2010-12-20T06:29:34 fighters, corvets, destroyers 2010-12-20T06:29:40 warp guns 2010-12-20T06:29:44 lasers 2010-12-20T06:29:51 and a mother ship 2010-12-20T06:29:51 everybody loves lazers 2010-12-20T06:30:02 and nebular 2010-12-20T06:30:14 nebulars are cool 2010-12-20T06:31:05 if the mother ship dies --you lose 2010-12-20T06:31:35 it sounds like a more awesome version of ants 2010-12-20T06:31:35 fighters are fast but only shoot forward and have little armor 2010-12-20T06:32:14 corvets are slower but can shoot in any direction regadless of which what they fly but have less range 2010-12-20T06:33:12 i want to do both :( 2010-12-20T06:33:15 arty have warp guns. Range is not affected by nebular. but they can't shoot unless still, have area damage and large range 2010-12-20T06:33:36 delt0r_: sounds awesome 2010-12-20T06:34:02 destroys are hulking big ships with a ton of armor and guns, moves like a lead brick 2010-12-20T06:34:27 mother ships don;t shoot and just sit there till they die 2010-12-20T06:34:44 aerique: well ballance is an issue 2010-12-20T06:35:00 and too complicated for a stater pack is one as well 2010-12-20T06:35:11 perhaps just 2 or 3 types of unit 2010-12-20T06:35:30 you don't get extra units during the game... what you start with is all you have 2010-12-20T06:35:44 hmmm, spawning new ships is cool i think 2010-12-20T06:36:07 The idea is that you have what you have, (like chess), now kill the enemy 2010-12-20T06:36:16 makes for shorter games 2010-12-20T06:36:32 so i was thinking around 16 units per team or less 2010-12-20T06:36:52 what? I can't spawn units in chess? 2010-12-20T06:36:53 but lots of units would be fun, just hard to manage for a bot 2010-12-20T06:36:57 why short games? 2010-12-20T06:37:00 I think I've been playing wrong ._. 2010-12-20T06:37:02 sigh: don't be annoying :P 2010-12-20T06:37:05 :( 2010-12-20T06:37:17 long games makes for bad leader boards 2010-12-20T06:37:20 :P 2010-12-20T06:37:33 there is a very real cost in $$ and cpu for long expensive games 2010-12-20T06:37:36 i don't want games to be too short 2010-12-20T06:38:00 planet wars was about right.. longer just won't work imo 2010-12-20T06:38:26 length is relative 2010-12-20T06:38:33 just need moar servers 2010-12-20T06:38:46 Ive got a pretty good comp 2010-12-20T06:38:52 any way I could help? 2010-12-20T06:39:09 yes.. but you don't have 4000 entries on your machines.... 2010-12-20T06:39:29 ideally all servers should be the same hardware and software setup 2010-12-20T06:39:39 ah 2010-12-20T06:39:40 they will most likey be ec2 instances 2010-12-20T06:39:53 thats 16M games for each person to play each other person just once 2010-12-20T06:39:59 so making it uniform, and spooling up more will be easy 2010-12-20T06:40:04 sigh: again, not free 2010-12-20T06:40:07 it is purely a cost issue, really 2010-12-20T06:40:11 i wouldn't be surprised if google could be talked into throwing in more server cash next time, maybe even more 2010-12-20T06:40:31 add cost because "long games are better" is not a good idea 2010-12-20T06:40:38 how do you convince google to throw you cash? 2010-12-20T06:40:45 by making them look good 2010-12-20T06:40:49 ah 2010-12-20T06:41:01 same as any advertisement deal 2010-12-20T06:41:04 antimatroid1: takes a lot more work than it looks like to set up sponsership 2010-12-20T06:41:26 delt0r_: i know 2010-12-20T06:41:26 its pretty much too late for feb IMO 2010-12-20T06:41:46 jeff said he got some money off them for planet wars 2010-12-20T06:41:59 i wouldn't be surprised if that was arranged at least this late 2010-12-20T06:41:59 oh? 2010-12-20T06:42:21 so games with play times in the 5 min bracket or less is preferable 2010-12-20T06:42:24 to pay for servers, not for him individually 2010-12-20T06:42:42 yes, i would like games to be less than 3 minutes or so max 2010-12-20T06:43:04 amazon could use for "cost effect "oncost" ec2 solutions" 2010-12-20T06:43:11 yeah... I think it makes it easier on the contestants as well 2010-12-20T06:43:18 faster to test and so on 2010-12-20T06:43:39 it wasn't very many bots who ended up using much of their time for planet wars either 2010-12-20T06:43:43 but by short games thats what i mean 2010-12-20T06:44:06 i like fast paced games, but i don't mind them going a few hundred turns 2010-12-20T06:44:35 well i was thinking 200 or so turns.. or even 400-500 with shorter time limits 2010-12-20T06:45:02 i say starter it higher than necessary 2010-12-20T06:45:04 ie .25 sec or so 2010-12-20T06:45:11 it's easier to shorten than lengthen the max number of turns 2010-12-20T06:45:16 start* 2010-12-20T06:47:42 rabidus: did you end up compiling that engine and running it? 2010-12-20T06:47:54 i know sigh got it going the other day, i'm hoping it keeps working for others 2010-12-20T06:48:14 I had to change some stuff 2010-12-20T06:48:21 sigh: i fixed that up i think 2010-12-20T06:48:48 antimatroid1: get a real dev platform... get unix... :) 2010-12-20T06:48:58 delt0r_: mehffort! 2010-12-20T06:49:56 slackware for the win 2010-12-20T06:50:39 unless i am actually interested in what i'm doing, i'm very slack :) 2010-12-20T06:51:08 hence why i'm never doing another applied maths course in my life 2010-12-20T06:52:18 real mathematicians don't use window ;) 2010-12-20T06:52:22 i like the theory side of applied stuff, even stats (never thought i'd say that), but as soon as i'm asked to just trudge through a whole bunch of computations, bleh 2010-12-20T06:52:50 that's what computers are for? 2010-12-20T06:52:54 yes 2010-12-20T06:53:04 i'll happily go and write them a program to solve it 2010-12-20T06:53:40 i did that for an algebra problem 2010-12-20T06:53:50 i gave my lecturer a few hundred case proof :D 2010-12-20T06:54:03 i noticed that even window ec2 instances were quite a bit more expensive than linux 2010-12-20T06:54:16 why would anyone use a windows server? 2010-12-20T06:54:36 why would any dev on windows ? 2010-12-20T06:55:00 too lazy to every install linux long enough to get used to it 2010-12-20T06:55:25 there you go 2010-12-20T06:55:27 i had a mac laptop all through middle and high school, but meh i prefer windows to mac 2010-12-20T06:55:47 thats why some will want a window server... don't want the hassle of learning something new 2010-12-20T06:55:48 i swear giving every student a laptop is counterproductive for education 2010-12-20T06:56:03 they even gave us a file server with a public folder for all grade 7's 2010-12-20T06:56:04 yep 2010-12-20T06:56:09 hello n64 emulators 2010-12-20T06:56:37 *** Zannick has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-12-20T06:56:39 computers for edu are overrated.. mainly because they are not used for it after issueing... 2010-12-20T06:56:51 and the hot mac rep give the headmaster a date 2010-12-20T06:56:59 yeah, i don't even have a laptop for uni, it would be more of a distraction 2010-12-20T06:57:10 all i do when i'm not in class is play flash games in the maths lab anyway 2010-12-20T06:57:10 I have one 2010-12-20T06:57:21 but don't take it with me often 2010-12-20T06:57:26 perfer pen and paper 2010-12-20T06:57:32 pacer* and paper 2010-12-20T06:57:37 techniclick 2010-12-20T06:57:52 optimal lead replenish tool 2010-12-20T06:58:40 http://www.oprojetista.com.br/images/produtos/PD105Tg.jpg 2010-12-20T06:58:50 i always buy the pink one, dunno why, just have since high school 2010-12-20T06:59:11 *** mceier has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T06:59:52 i have a perfect lift and twist, push, return and write method that just flows :) 2010-12-20T07:00:49 brand new vinyl rubbers are the best too 2010-12-20T07:01:00 those suckers will clear anything up 2010-12-20T07:01:18 worst is when you rub out like half a page, then on the last unecessary swipe you scrunch the page 2010-12-20T07:01:31 bane of my existence i swear 2010-12-20T07:01:56 antimatroid1: sorry, i'm at work right now so can't do that 2010-12-20T07:02:05 maybe in ~6 hours or something 2010-12-20T07:02:34 I hardly ever wrote anything in class, and just copied my friends' notes if I need them :P 2010-12-20T07:03:04 sigh: my maths lecturers don't do slides, it goes on the board and you write that shit down 2010-12-20T07:03:20 i actually much prefer that to slides though 2010-12-20T07:03:35 it gives you something to do while forcing you to stay focused 2010-12-20T07:03:39 meh, I hate just mindlessly copying stuff 2010-12-20T07:03:48 the idea is to pay attention :P 2010-12-20T07:04:08 they have to write it on the board too, it's not like copying down a slide in the time it takes them to say it 2010-12-20T07:04:42 *** Zannick has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T07:04:46 somehow my highest maths mark probably came from the maths unit i put the least amount of effort into 2010-12-20T07:04:50 I find I take in more if I'm not just constantly writing :P 2010-12-20T07:05:29 i usually understand a definition/theorem better once writing it out and thinking about what i write rather than looking at it up on the screen 2010-12-20T07:05:34 which is why i like the method most 2010-12-20T07:05:34 I try to understand first... write 2nd 2010-12-20T07:05:41 worked out well so far 2010-12-20T07:06:14 or in the case of my algebra lecturer, after about 3 hours of banging my head on his assignment problems 2010-12-20T07:06:22 weekly assignments can be a real bitch sometimes 2010-12-20T07:08:37 it was quite funny this year, our computational techniques class was with engineers, so we were put in the arts lecture theatre, but apparently they decided they can teach without white boards in their big main lecture theatre, so we had to move 2010-12-20T07:09:50 I don't get it 2010-12-20T07:10:27 whats difference between an Observer pattern, a listener, and a callback 2010-12-20T07:10:30 ? 2010-12-20T07:10:41 sigh: they took out all whiteboards in their lecture theatres 2010-12-20T07:10:45 Oh.. wrong chanel 2010-12-20T07:12:16 antimatroid1: that's a bit odd 2010-12-20T07:13:33 but feel free to answer it anyway 2010-12-20T07:13:46 ok :) 2010-12-20T07:13:57 imo observer and listener are the same thing 2010-12-20T07:13:57 * delt0r_ talking to himself (with billy idol playing in the background) 2010-12-20T07:14:13 imo they are all the same thing 2010-12-20T07:14:21 i have nfi 2010-12-20T07:14:46 But i see people make a distinction 2010-12-20T07:15:08 you Aussies really do have potty mouths don't you 2010-12-20T07:15:18 callbacks seem like a more general concept 2010-12-20T07:15:29 i am terrible with swear words 2010-12-20T07:15:39 i try to be fairly reasonable with them in here 2010-12-20T07:16:13 it's hard, my favourite word is the c word, but everyone seems to hate it 2010-12-20T07:16:18 it rolls off the tongue so nicely 2010-12-20T07:16:21 listener/observer strikes me as a more strict interface about notifiying every time on given event 2010-12-20T07:16:49 sigh: where notification is provided with a callback 2010-12-20T07:17:06 that's why I said a callback is a more general concept 2010-12-20T07:17:07 while a callback can be used for other things too such as --sorting 2010-12-20T07:17:23 sigh: yea--I am following your train of thought 2010-12-20T07:17:28 yea ok 2010-12-20T07:17:31 that works for me 2010-12-20T07:17:34 :) 2010-12-20T07:18:02 Observers and listeners are the same thing... while callbacks are more general 2010-12-20T07:18:14 that is my opinion 2010-12-20T07:18:21 is observers are callbacks but not all callbacks are observers 2010-12-20T07:18:57 bah, just say subset :P 2010-12-20T07:18:57 I think it is better to say all observers use callbacks 2010-12-20T07:19:06 or are implemented using callbacks 2010-12-20T07:19:28 *** MatthiasM has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T07:19:36 indeed 2010-12-20T07:19:41 it baffles me why there isn't a relation for sequence of 2010-12-20T07:19:56 someone in another channel just gave the same deff as you sigh 2010-12-20T07:20:06 :) 2010-12-20T07:20:06 cool :) 2010-12-20T07:20:19 that would be MatthiasM 2010-12-20T07:20:29 sigh is my unwilling debugger sometimes :) 2010-12-20T07:20:39 well, troubleshooter at least 2010-12-20T07:20:41 lol 2010-12-20T07:34:26 does anyone know why 2010-12-20T07:34:37 why what? 2010-12-20T07:34:47 I have to have def methodname(self): 2010-12-20T07:34:48 Epona: 42 2010-12-20T07:34:52 lol 2010-12-20T07:35:02 Epona: looks like python 2010-12-20T07:35:02 *** dmj111 has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T07:35:13 I can't seem to find a good way to piece it together in my head 2010-12-20T07:35:17 like how to fully use it 2010-12-20T07:35:22 the self part 2010-12-20T07:35:24 at least 2010-12-20T07:35:26 that's the syntax for class methods 2010-12-20T07:35:46 eg Java passes the 'this' pointer implicit - while in Python it's explicit 2010-12-20T07:36:15 Epona: when you call a method on a class, it always passes the object that as the first arguement to the method 2010-12-20T07:36:15 guess I have to keep reading 2010-12-20T07:36:55 i didn't know that 2010-12-20T07:36:55 so, the stuff in the parenthesis are potential objects? 2010-12-20T07:37:09 no - the parameters to that method 2010-12-20T07:37:17 Epona: when you construct the object, it's taking in a pointer of the location to create it 2010-12-20T07:37:35 in java/c++ it does it for you, in python it doesn't 2010-12-20T07:37:45 wonderful 2010-12-20T07:37:50 antimatroid1: you are going to confuse her :P 2010-12-20T07:37:51 *** yasith has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T07:37:59 too late lol 2010-12-20T07:38:01 Epona: are you a girl? 2010-12-20T07:38:12 well its implicit rather than explicit... not the same as does it for you or not 2010-12-20T07:38:17 trans-girl 2010-12-20T07:38:23 Epona: are you new to OO or also to Python? 2010-12-20T07:38:28 not to jump, i've just been waiting to come across the first girl contestant 2010-12-20T07:38:31 close enough for me 2010-12-20T07:38:36 Epona: pointer == reference 2010-12-20T07:38:38 both. more new to objects though 2010-12-20T07:38:58 antimatroid1: I'm pretty sure burny was a girl 2010-12-20T07:39:04 pointer is the evil C/C++ version of a reference 2010-12-20T07:39:16 Epona: ok - let's say you have a Dog object - you want to call bark() on it 2010-12-20T07:39:30 sigh: shows how observant i am :P 2010-12-20T07:39:32 bark() being the first method 2010-12-20T07:39:34 right 2010-12-20T07:39:55 Epona: pointer == variable giving memory location of what it's point to 2010-12-20T07:39:59 Epona: you need to pass the object which should bark to the method - this is done as first parameter which is called 'self' by convention 2010-12-20T07:40:29 what do you mean by pass the object? 2010-12-20T07:40:35 Epona: so using 'self' you can access properties of your object for which the method is executed 2010-12-20T07:40:47 i think it's time for binky 2010-12-20T07:41:07 Epona: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-pJlnpkLp0 2010-12-20T07:41:19 kk watchin 2010-12-20T07:42:19 why are you all going on about pointers? That is the most round-about way of explaining objects in Python >< 2010-12-20T07:42:34 i'm explaining the this 2010-12-20T07:42:36 lol 2010-12-20T07:42:52 sigh: agree 2010-12-20T07:42:53 you're not really passing the object yeah? just a reference? 2010-12-20T07:43:02 i shouldn't try to teach programming :P 2010-12-20T07:43:10 references don't quite behave like pointer -- 2010-12-20T07:43:15 in C/C++ 2010-12-20T07:43:21 but binky is a must see for anyone 2010-12-20T07:43:50 omg binky died 2010-12-20T07:44:02 not when you are already getting your head around python and oo, and then trying to understand pointers on top of that 2010-12-20T07:44:42 sigh: understand a reference is important 2010-12-20T07:45:44 Epona: try this http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles/OOP.shtml 2010-12-20T07:46:22 kk 2010-12-20T07:46:36 delt0r_: never said it wasn't 2010-12-20T07:47:02 well i can't see how you can do classes, OO without understand references... 2010-12-20T07:47:25 as this converstion about def bark(self) shows 2010-12-20T07:47:28 i think 2010-12-20T07:48:08 *** Azrathud has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2010-12-20T07:48:27 Epona: when you pass a reference the object itself doesn't move or change - you just tell someone else about it 2010-12-20T07:49:07 oh hmm 2010-12-20T07:50:05 delt0r_: you may be right... honestly I learnt C before learning any OO language so I can't really give an opinion about how to learn OO without understanding pointers already 2010-12-20T07:52:29 *** Palmik is now known as \n 2010-12-20T07:52:47 thankyou for all the help everyone ^.^ 2010-12-20T07:52:57 *** \n is now known as \r\n 2010-12-20T07:53:05 *** \r\n is now known as {\} 2010-12-20T07:53:15 *** {\} is now known as {\\} 2010-12-20T07:53:23 *** {\\} <{\\}!~Palmik@PalmikPC.sks6.muni.cz> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-12-20T07:55:22 *** MatthiasM has left #aichallenge 2010-12-20T07:56:55 delt0r_: actually... thinking about it more, I don't understand why you think understanding references are more important in understanding classes than anywhere 2010-12-20T07:57:51 if bar is of type Bar then "bar.foo()" is the same as calling "Bar.foo(bar)" 2010-12-20T07:58:38 you can think of Bar.foo as just a normal function with a namespace, rather than a method... so if you understand function calls, you can understand method calls 2010-12-20T08:02:39 sigh: Every time we have avoided references when teaching --it has gone badly 2010-12-20T08:03:13 I'll take your word for it :) 2010-12-20T08:03:58 so we do references while ignoring "classes" first... then move on to classes (as a stuct really) then move on to inheritance etc 2010-12-20T08:04:33 * antimatroid1 has a very poor understanding of programming in general 2010-12-20T08:04:39 personally a little C doesn't hurt... 2010-12-20T08:04:52 our second year algo's class was taught in c 2010-12-20T08:05:17 C++ is a bit much syntax and file and build management thou 2010-12-20T08:05:37 for first years anyway 2010-12-20T08:05:39 one can use c++ without knowing very much 2010-12-20T08:05:39 that's reasonable... I don't feel that making students learn about references and classes at the same time is good 2010-12-20T08:05:52 sigh: i agree with that 2010-12-20T08:06:00 would tend to you GC langs for the bulk however, ie python/java 2010-12-20T08:06:21 i don't see why python isn't more common than java as a first language 2010-12-20T08:06:29 bloody business world 2010-12-20T08:06:52 in the real world dev time matters more than anything other single thing 2010-12-20T08:06:55 i've never looked at C# 2010-12-20T08:07:21 python is good there... java is better than C++ cus of GC 2010-12-20T08:07:47 yeah, i am getting sick of some things with c++, i really need to spend more time with haskell 2010-12-20T08:08:09 haskell is fun... but its not going to get you a job for a very long time 2010-12-20T08:08:10 templates are a pita with c++ 2010-12-20T08:08:27 i'm not looking for a programming job 2010-12-20T08:08:31 ocaml or scalar may 2010-12-20T08:08:42 well, maybe algo trading at some point, but that'd be c++ 2010-12-20T08:09:24 i don't think i'd be much of a programmer in the real world though 2010-12-20T08:09:38 as is apparent by my lack of knowledge with git, debuggers etc. 2010-12-20T08:09:52 those things are not hard to pick up 2010-12-20T08:10:14 I only started working with git this year 2010-12-20T08:10:26 i really need to make the jump away from windows 2010-12-20T08:10:28 but meh 2010-12-20T08:10:49 do you all use debian? or..? 2010-12-20T08:11:02 sigh is mac 2010-12-20T08:11:13 Im about to use debian on a spare computer 2010-12-20T08:11:21 my desktop is ubuntu 2010-12-20T08:11:29 apparently its a powerpc 2010-12-20T08:11:36 so I have limited choices 2010-12-20T08:12:01 i can probably source a hard drive from somewhere at some point 2010-12-20T08:12:15 i'll install it on that and start playing around some time 2010-12-20T08:12:32 *** tametick has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T08:12:40 *** tametick has left #aichallenge 2010-12-20T08:31:52 i was beginning to think antwars would be easy before 2010-12-20T08:32:00 but now i think it's quite complicated 2010-12-20T08:32:22 it certainly has the nice appeal of being easy to get started 2010-12-20T08:38:50 *** medrimonia1 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-12-20T08:41:55 http://pastebin.com/dLctPD2H 2010-12-20T08:42:06 there's a game string with a decent amount of fighting if anyone wants 2010-12-20T08:44:30 hmmm pretty sure there's a bug there somewhere 2010-12-20T09:20:07 *** sigh has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-12-20T09:20:11 *** yasith has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-12-20T09:26:30 *** mceier has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2010-12-20T09:32:41 *** yasith has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T09:35:31 Frontier: i have a bug, i'm not sure if it's yours or mine 2010-12-20T09:35:34 i think maybe yours 2010-12-20T09:35:52 http://pastebin.com/dLctPD2H 2010-12-20T09:36:32 turn 87-88, square near the middle at the bottom where the two opponent ants collide, the fusion spawn seems to happen way to early 2010-12-20T09:38:44 ill be back later 2010-12-20T09:38:53 * Epona hugs antimatroid1 2010-12-20T09:38:57 *** Epona has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2010-12-20T10:30:22 *** JamesMG has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T10:31:51 what is best percetron learning method now? 2010-12-20T10:50:54 *** narnach_mb has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-12-20T10:52:03 *** iFire has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2010-12-20T10:58:13 *** aerique has quit IRC (Quit: ...) 2010-12-20T11:01:26 antimatroid1: You are right, there is a bug in my code 2010-12-20T11:02:34 *** mceier has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T11:03:58 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T11:03:58 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2010-12-20T11:24:54 *** boegel has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-12-20T12:07:56 *** yasith has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-12-20T12:08:38 *** iFire has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T12:30:31 *** Cyndre has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T12:36:12 *** narnach has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2010-12-20T12:38:40 *** perror has quit IRC (Quit: Bye all !) 2010-12-20T12:43:39 *** p4p4p4 has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [SeaMonkey 2.0a3/20090223135443]) 2010-12-20T12:44:45 *** p4p4p4 has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T12:45:03 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T12:46:40 *** Migi32 has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) 2010-12-20T12:55:08 *** amstan_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T12:55:08 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan_ 2010-12-20T13:02:09 *** Migi32 has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T13:04:22 *** Rubicon-|-Cross has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T13:05:06 *** p4p4p4 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection timed out) 2010-12-20T13:07:19 *** p4p4p4 has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T13:09:29 *** Mathnerd314 has quit IRC (Disconnected by services) 2010-12-20T13:10:09 *** Mathnerd314_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T13:10:23 *** Mathnerd314_ is now known as Mathnerd314 2010-12-20T13:14:15 *** Naktibalda has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716]) 2010-12-20T13:14:39 *** nullkuhl has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T13:14:59 *** mceier has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2010-12-20T13:18:35 *** p4p4p5 has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T13:20:55 *** p4p4p4 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-12-20T13:23:06 *** p4p4p5 has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2010-12-20T13:47:39 antimatroid1: http://marco-leise.homedns.org/antgui/v3/ 2010-12-20T13:49:56 *** amstan_ has quit IRC (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2010-12-20T13:50:14 *** amstan_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T13:50:15 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan_ 2010-12-20T13:55:48 hey not bad Frontier 2010-12-20T14:04:28 *** Accoun has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2010-12-20T14:10:08 SmkMnstr: It is the 3rd version, it can't be bad :p 2010-12-20T14:14:06 *** p4p4p4 has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T14:15:10 hi, Cyndre! revanche for sunday's fun @ #Markoff 2010-12-20T14:18:37 *** delt0r___ has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T14:20:14 *** delt0r_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2010-12-20T14:21:13 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T14:27:25 *** Frontier has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2010-12-20T14:28:26 *** Migi32 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2010-12-20T14:36:58 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-12-20T14:38:02 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T14:41:31 *** Migi32 has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T14:48:03 *** Naktibalda has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T14:58:14 *** Frontier has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T15:01:03 *** nullkuhl has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-12-20T15:15:34 *** Accoun has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-12-20T15:18:07 *** nullkuhl has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T15:29:05 *** RubiconCross has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T15:32:26 *** Rubicon-|-Cross has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2010-12-20T15:32:38 *** mceier has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T15:32:52 *** amstan_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-12-20T15:58:02 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T16:07:29 *** p4p4p4 has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [SeaMonkey 2.0a3/20090223135443]) 2010-12-20T16:09:46 *** Rubicon-|-Cross has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T16:13:26 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T16:28:17 *** eregon has left #aichallenge ("http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.") 2010-12-20T16:28:56 *** nullkuhl has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-12-20T16:58:27 *** mceier has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2010-12-20T16:59:43 *** nullkuhl has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T17:04:10 *** bhasker_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T17:06:59 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-12-20T17:25:36 *** McLeopold has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T17:26:20 antimatroid1: ? 2010-12-20T17:55:30 *** jaspervdj has quit IRC (Quit: NEVER GONNA GIVE YOU UP NEVER GONNA LET YOU DOWN) 2010-12-20T17:57:21 *** amstan_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T17:57:21 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan_ 2010-12-20T18:06:10 *** mega1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-12-20T18:07:41 *** Azrathud has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T18:17:26 *** JamesMG has quit IRC (Quit: home) 2010-12-20T18:20:36 *** amstan_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-12-20T18:27:16 *** narnach has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T18:44:24 *** Migi32 has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) 2010-12-20T18:53:59 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T18:54:05 *** amstan has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-12-20T18:54:27 *** bhasker_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2010-12-20T18:54:46 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T18:54:46 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2010-12-20T19:05:28 *** amriedle has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T19:07:50 *** Mathnerd314 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2010-12-20T19:07:52 wow this ant thing has progressed very far already 2010-12-20T19:11:18 is there a spec draft for it anywhere yet? 2010-12-20T19:12:27 Is it going to be the feb contest? 2010-12-20T19:13:13 i haven't even been watching this channel enough to know how seriously it was being developed already 2010-12-20T19:13:44 there's no official decision yet 2010-12-20T19:14:00 are there official options? 2010-12-20T19:14:16 no one's really said very much officially 2010-12-20T19:14:30 *sigh* of course not 2010-12-20T19:15:23 i outlined some things i would look for in a game and asked for suggestions in the behind the scenes forum but no responses yet 2010-12-20T19:17:50 i generally agree with what you wrote there i think 2010-12-20T19:18:37 *** Migi32 has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T19:19:16 somebody commented on the game ideas wiki page that redoing tron would be nice, but i'm not so sure we could get away with actually calling it tron now that there is a lot of attention on that name 2010-12-20T19:19:31 *** nann has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T19:19:39 still, a new twist on tron could be cool if we give it a new name 2010-12-20T19:20:09 there were a lot of variants that participants came up with during the tron contest, i think 2010-12-20T19:20:40 i think one of the big successes from planet wars is the large game space 2010-12-20T19:20:40 e.g. each bot controls three bikes like in the real tron 2010-12-20T19:20:52 tron had three moves per bot per turn 2010-12-20T19:21:11 i agree 2010-12-20T19:21:20 arbitrary angles could make it much more interesting though :) 2010-12-20T19:21:29 haha 2010-12-20T19:21:30 not very tron-like 2010-12-20T19:21:35 but it would be neat 2010-12-20T19:21:51 analog tron 2010-12-20T19:22:06 semi-analog 2010-12-20T19:22:11 hexalog? 2010-12-20T19:22:18 i would assume that for simplicity we would not have rotational intertia 2010-12-20T19:22:25 or any inertia 2010-12-20T19:22:34 *** Apophis_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-12-20T19:22:37 hexalog doesn't add enough variables i think 2010-12-20T19:22:41 unless it's also 3v3 2010-12-20T19:22:44 then it might :) 2010-12-20T19:22:49 3d hexalog 3v3 2010-12-20T19:23:01 it's not hexalog if it's 3d :P 2010-12-20T19:23:08 hahaha :P 2010-12-20T19:24:04 3d tron would be weird, too 2010-12-20T19:24:17 what do the tails look like? how would they box in your opponent? 2010-12-20T19:24:32 they'd have to practically be infinite planes 2010-12-20T19:24:41 it would be pretty tricky to box in an opponent, i think 2010-12-20T19:24:58 i'm imagining just a grid, like the tron contest 2010-12-20T19:25:17 where every square (cube) gets blocked off when a player exits it 2010-12-20T19:26:05 ah, cubes 2010-12-20T19:26:23 what else tesselates 3-space? 2010-12-20T19:26:30 i can't picture anything 2010-12-20T19:27:21 i think there are a few other known ways, but 3d cubes could be complex enough 2010-12-20T19:27:29 yeah 2010-12-20T19:27:30 i still think it would be too tough to box somebody in though 2010-12-20T19:27:40 and visualizing could suck a lot 2010-12-20T19:28:13 i think we already knew we weren't going to do 3d :P 2010-12-20T19:31:20 How about chinese checkers? 2010-12-20T19:31:41 minimax, but the board evaluation might be fun 2010-12-20T19:32:00 plus, you could do up to 6 players 2010-12-20T19:32:26 that would be pretty neat 2010-12-20T19:32:56 having 6 players actually lessens the ability of minimax/alphabeta 2010-12-20T19:32:58 I'm remembering the games I learned from my klutz press book... 2010-12-20T19:33:35 i've thought about making a bot for audiosurf so i thought about suggesting it 2010-12-20T19:33:50 the problem is it's an independent competition, rather than a battle 2010-12-20T19:34:00 is mancala solved? 2010-12-20T19:39:01 i really want a game where players have hidden information 2010-12-20T19:39:27 of some sort, at least 2010-12-20T19:39:28 how about a version of BS? 2010-12-20T19:39:33 with multiple players 2010-12-20T19:39:37 :D 2010-12-20T19:39:39 stratego, perhaps? 2010-12-20T19:40:23 it's turn based, but minimax would be too tough due to the hidden information 2010-12-20T19:40:30 i'm pretty sure, at least 2010-12-20T19:40:46 maybe late game would be more tractable, but that's probably it 2010-12-20T19:41:07 i'd suspect minimax would be mostly okay 2010-12-20T19:41:13 but not terribly 2010-12-20T19:41:21 just assume worst case for all decisions 2010-12-20T19:41:48 assume that every enemy is exactly what you don't want it to be? 2010-12-20T19:41:59 i think that would probably lead to pretty bad play 2010-12-20T19:42:06 assume that any enemy that hasn't moved is a bomb unless you're attacking it 2010-12-20T19:42:15 * jmcarthur shrugs 2010-12-20T19:42:18 etc 2010-12-20T19:42:30 yeah, early on the bot would be like "i'm gonna lose no matter what!" 2010-12-20T19:42:50 i haven't played stratego in a while 2010-12-20T19:43:01 the only way to win is not to play, by that strategy 2010-12-20T19:43:18 hey, let's do global thermonuclear war 2010-12-20T19:43:33 *** RubiconCross has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T19:43:37 oh boy 2010-12-20T19:43:46 *** Rubicon-|-Cross has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-12-20T19:43:56 *** RubiconCross has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2010-12-20T19:45:08 Frontier: thanks for the change 2010-12-20T19:45:24 McLeopold: i wanted you for a tcp server at some point :D 2010-12-20T19:45:47 antimatroid1: is there a spec draft for the ant game? 2010-12-20T19:46:12 You want me to be a tcp server? 2010-12-20T19:46:36 McLeopold: at some point yes 2010-12-20T19:46:41 jmcarthur: give me a sec 2010-12-20T19:46:59 I'm still working on my python one. I haven't had much time. 2010-12-20T19:47:10 Hopefully by the year's end I'll have something working. 2010-12-20T19:48:10 jmcarthur: http://pastebin.com/DDCUSePY 2010-12-20T19:48:14 that's the format i've been using 2010-12-20T19:52:20 *** bhasker_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T19:54:42 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2010-12-20T19:54:48 thanks 2010-12-20T19:55:41 jmcarthur: the one thing i'm not sure about atm is what should happen when an ant is attacked from an adjacent square and died 2010-12-20T19:56:17 atm their harvest just drops onto the ground, but if you walk on top of an enemy ant and kill them, you get their harvest, but not if someone killed hem from attack before you landed on them 2010-12-20T19:56:26 even though it was really all the same move 2010-12-20T19:56:46 *** amriedle has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal) 2010-12-20T19:57:39 i think the current behavior for adjacent attacks is fine. it's the walk-onto-each-other behavior that i disagree with 2010-12-20T19:57:49 what do you think should happen? 2010-12-20T19:57:52 i think the food should drop and the winner should have to take the time to pick it up 2010-12-20T19:58:04 that's easier and i sort of agree 2010-12-20T19:58:14 should the fused ants at least get each others harvest? 2010-12-20T19:58:51 i also let ants deposit as much of their harvest as they want each turn, either to base or another ant, should that be down to 1? the idea there was to speed the game up a bit 2010-12-20T19:59:20 i sort of have to do that anyway 2010-12-20T19:59:25 otherwise battle resolution gets harder 2010-12-20T19:59:28 i'm not convinced that would speed it up, but i am not as familiar with it as you are 2010-12-20T19:59:36 ah 2010-12-20T19:59:57 well, it's either take you the number of turns for what you have harvest to get them onto the base square, or you can drop it in one turn and keep going 2010-12-20T20:00:13 if it takes longer to drop food off at home that means your numbers can't climb as quickly, right? which gives the other player some more opportunity to attack your ants 2010-12-20T20:00:19 without being as overwhelmed 2010-12-20T20:00:26 that's true 2010-12-20T20:00:28 i suspect it might just even out 2010-12-20T20:00:31 i do think there are too many ants atm 2010-12-20T20:01:00 i'm going to remove deposit amounts for the moment and ability to steal enemies harvest 2010-12-20T20:01:17 my engine is really really horrible anyway, i'm hoping j3camero gets one done sometime 2010-12-20T20:01:43 just reaching the enemy's home base ends the game? i would have suspected that it needed to be "attacked" 2010-12-20T20:01:48 i suppose this is simpler though 2010-12-20T20:02:12 *would have thought 2010-12-20T20:02:15 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2rPuRDtL_s 2010-12-20T20:02:19 my idea for that came here 2010-12-20T20:02:47 if your ant spawns on the base that turn, you need more hp than that ant to take it out (if you fuse two full health ants you get a super ant with 10hp) 2010-12-20T20:02:48 isn't each ant a different instance of a bot? 2010-12-20T20:02:59 McLeopold: no, too much overhead 2010-12-20T20:03:13 delt0r has a spec that almost approximates that by giving each ant relative information 2010-12-20T20:03:19 but it's not compatible with home bases 2010-12-20T20:03:50 oh i didn't realize there was fusion 2010-12-20T20:04:18 yeah, if two friend ants land on the same square, they fuse 2010-12-20T20:04:24 join hp and grains 2010-12-20T20:04:24 hmm 2010-12-20T20:04:25 he just didn't want to deal with collision resulution 2010-12-20T20:04:37 *resolution 2010-12-20T20:04:40 that gives me an idea for keeping the ant numbers down without imposing a cap 2010-12-20T20:04:41 sigh: no, i was going to have collided ants all die 2010-12-20T20:04:52 jelly ants 2010-12-20T20:05:09 *** Naktibalda has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2010-12-20T20:05:30 except, # of ants matters 2010-12-20T20:05:47 yes, fusing ants is a really bad idea 2010-12-20T20:05:55 as ants hold food the amount of food goes down at a (slow?) constant rate per ant. this could encourage the player to keep the number of ants lower 2010-12-20T20:05:59 i only added it as it was the best i could think of for colliding ants 2010-12-20T20:06:03 ah 2010-12-20T20:06:19 i kind of agree 2010-12-20T20:06:41 i do think there may be times when trying to invade their base that you might stack 2010-12-20T20:06:52 but otherwise, you want to keep as many separate ants as possible 2010-12-20T20:06:52 So here I go changing the subject. I think a simplification of a magic card game might be fun. 2010-12-20T20:07:13 never played magic, never intended to :P 2010-12-20T20:07:14 delt0r had a collision resolution scheme which cancelled conflicting moves 2010-12-20T20:07:20 antimatroid1 didn't like that 2010-12-20T20:07:28 antimatroid1: the obvious fix might be to just allow multiple ants per square 2010-12-20T20:07:32 * antimatroid1 really really doesn't like that 2010-12-20T20:07:44 Well, you can theme the game in any way, but the mechanics are really fun. 2010-12-20T20:07:46 jmcarthur: yes, but then bots need to track and ids and work out who to attack 2010-12-20T20:07:48 gets a lot harder 2010-12-20T20:08:20 delt0r has got another game on the way though that sounds awesome 2010-12-20T20:08:42 McLeopold: the downside is anything resembling magic would take a lot of work to balance 2010-12-20T20:09:15 jmcarthur: where were you a few days ago when i was working out these specs! :P 2010-12-20T20:09:21 antimatroid1: i don't think it would have to be much harder. each square could just store the number of each player's ants currently on it and orders could be given by pairs of source square and direction 2010-12-20T20:09:23 sigh: I don't think so. Just start with 1 "land" card and 1 "creature" card and go from there. 2010-12-20T20:09:28 It would be symmetric. 2010-12-20T20:09:48 jmcarthur: each ant might have different hp/harvest, you need to know them individually 2010-12-20T20:09:50 jmcarthur: delt0r was very against stacking ants on squares 2010-12-20T20:09:52 Magic, haha 2010-12-20T20:09:57 * jmcarthur shrugs 2010-12-20T20:10:03 the engine is actually set up with ant ids for frontiers gui, but i think it's harder to deal with as a comptitor 2010-12-20T20:10:06 most choices become arbitrary i guess 2010-12-20T20:10:12 he said it leads to simpler strategies 2010-12-20T20:10:16 I would think a ant's move order should be able to fail. 2010-12-20T20:10:22 meh, I'll let him argue it out when he sees you 2010-12-20T20:10:36 McLeopold: that is delt0rs method 2010-12-20T20:10:42 but i would prefer ants to move as told 2010-12-20T20:10:48 * sigh just regurgitates information I heard in the channel 2010-12-20T20:10:54 * sigh doesn't have original thoughts 2010-12-20T20:11:05 antimatroid1: how about if two ants move to the same square they are blocked, and if they were opponents it also deals damage? 2010-12-20T20:11:07 antimatroid1: what's the upside of moving always being successful? 2010-12-20T20:11:27 McLeopold: if i move an ant, if it's alive the next turn, it'll be where i expect 2010-12-20T20:11:42 right, but would you expect it to be alive? 2010-12-20T20:11:50 you have to get the state either way 2010-12-20T20:11:52 jmcarthur: that could maybe work, but then like half of your moves might have been blocked by just one of them 2010-12-20T20:11:53 I think it would be easier to check if the hp is zero 2010-12-20T20:11:58 i really really don't like it :) 2010-12-20T20:12:10 that would be part of the strategy 2010-12-20T20:12:15 not a mere mistake :) 2010-12-20T20:12:26 but it's a boring thing to deal with 2010-12-20T20:12:28 if half your army is blocked then you need to reroute it 2010-12-20T20:12:30 and just annoyign 2010-12-20T20:12:46 It would be possible to setup a scenario you can't resolve with unsuccessful moves. 2010-12-20T20:12:48 with this method you can throw ant armies into each other for battle 2010-12-20T20:12:55 Like ants moving in a circle. 2010-12-20T20:12:56 and start forcing your way through their front lines 2010-12-20T20:12:59 maybe less annoying if it was a hex grid instead of squares 2010-12-20T20:13:04 then you get more ways to move 2010-12-20T20:13:29 how does one store a hex grid? 2010-12-20T20:13:30 McLeopold: how would you move *into* that position though? 2010-12-20T20:13:34 do you have to just use a graph 2010-12-20T20:13:47 antimatroid1: you can store it like a normal grid but consider every other row to be slightly shifted 2010-12-20T20:13:59 *** yasith has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T20:14:01 McLeopold: that would be resolved fine, none of the ants move 2010-12-20T20:14:08 well, assume a line, then antA goes from 2 -> 3 and antB goes from 1 -> 2 2010-12-20T20:14:28 yes, you don't check collisions till all moves are made 2010-12-20T20:14:28 if antA doesn't move, then antB is blocked too 2010-12-20T20:14:30 that should be fine 2010-12-20T20:14:41 you could arrange that example in a circle 2010-12-20T20:15:08 but yes, if antC moves into 3, then both A and B are blocked and move back to where they started at 1 and 2, but i hate that 2010-12-20T20:15:28 antimatroid1: I think there might be a case where a different ant is free to move depending on the order in which to attempt to resolve. 2010-12-20T20:15:30 well i g2g 2010-12-20T20:15:50 McLeopold: you make all moves, then resolve collisions, it works i think 2010-12-20T20:15:52 if you just resolve it atomically it's not that tough 2010-12-20T20:16:10 if a resolution screws things up then you fix that recursively 2010-12-20T20:16:27 could lead to large chunks of your population getting stuck though 2010-12-20T20:16:27 i think fusion and instant fights are cooler 2010-12-20T20:16:44 and easier, and better to handle 2010-12-20T20:16:45 delt0r's code has a recursive collision resolution implementation 2010-12-20T20:17:10 which is completely deterministic, and order-independant 2010-12-20T20:17:26 IMHO: fusion is stupid 2010-12-20T20:18:25 why? if you have 4 ants adjacent to their base, you can walk them all on fuse and own any spawned ant, winning the game 2010-12-20T20:18:39 similarly, you can fuse 2 weaker ants on top of an enemy to take them out 2010-12-20T20:18:39 It just sounds cheezy. 2010-12-20T20:18:52 or build a mega ant to push through their ants at their base 2010-12-20T20:19:02 I have no good math to backup my stupid claim.:) 2010-12-20T20:19:49 yeah, fusion doesn't really fit the theme 2010-12-20T20:19:58 theme? it's robot ants 2010-12-20T20:19:58 If we called them "Mech's", then I would be okay with it. :) 2010-12-20T20:20:06 Or, transformers. 2010-12-20T20:21:20 cya 2010-12-20T20:21:22 *** McLeopold has left #aichallenge 2010-12-20T20:24:07 i think the game is less interesting strategy wise if ignoring collision moves too 2010-12-20T20:24:56 say you are surrounded by 2 or 3 of them, with ignoring collision moves, you just run away, if you can collide, you will probably try to take one of them out with you 2010-12-20T20:25:15 and tey will probably try to move one of their ants if they have 3 next to you or something 2010-12-20T20:27:24 i think that's the point, you can set up flanks, barriers, choke points and so on 2010-12-20T20:28:11 you can do that now, but you need enough to defend them trying to charge stragiht through you 2010-12-20T20:28:32 what if fusions weren't allowed but instant fights were? 2010-12-20T20:28:59 it's easy to make sure you never land on the same square as a friend (not so much with fusion in the engine) 2010-12-20T20:29:32 not so much with spawning*** 2010-12-20T20:29:38 that might be ok 2010-12-20T20:29:51 just cancel spawning if it conflits 2010-12-20T20:29:58 you can't spawn if there is no space 2010-12-20T20:30:03 yeah, i'll have to change where i do it 2010-12-20T20:30:05 that's valid, I think 2010-12-20T20:30:15 it's harder to invade their base now 2010-12-20T20:30:24 if you have ants on all sides, you can't just move them all onto the base at once 2010-12-20T20:31:20 maybe 2010-12-20T20:31:46 i think fusion makes the game better, hmph! :P 2010-12-20T20:31:58 and it's robot ants, the storyline can fit 2010-12-20T20:32:02 :P 2010-12-20T20:54:00 *** Accoun has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-12-20T20:58:18 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T21:16:38 *** bhasker_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2010-12-20T22:15:05 *** Azrathud has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2010-12-20T22:19:14 *** delt0r_ has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T22:20:36 *** delt0r___ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2010-12-20T22:32:42 *** Azrathud has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T23:09:23 *** Cold-Phoenix has joined #aichallenge 2010-12-20T23:29:24 *** Azrathud has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2010-12-20T23:33:03 *** Cold-Phoenix has quit IRC () 2010-12-20T23:48:50 *** yasith has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) 2010-12-20T23:58:41 *** Migi32 has quit IRC (Quit: BOINC) 2010-12-20T23:59:59 Zannick: i posted my thoughts in your forum post