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narnach is now known as narnach_mb 2011-01-04T11:04:24 *** cfaftw has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-04T11:22:04 *** narnach_mb has left #aichallenge 2011-01-04T11:24:40 * jmcarthur yawns 2011-01-04T11:26:06 *** boegel has quit IRC (Quit: *poof!*) 2011-01-04T11:27:08 *** aerique has quit IRC (Quit: ...) 2011-01-04T11:35:48 *** Guest86934 has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-01-04T11:36:25 *** Palmik has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-04T12:17:10 *** mceier has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-04T12:17:57 *** fmeyer has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-04T12:22:08 *** fmeyer has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-01-04T12:24:36 *** fmeyer has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-04T12:35:01 *** yasith_ has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) 2011-01-04T12:44:20 *** Naktibalda has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716]) 2011-01-04T12:48:26 *** yasith_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-04T12:52:34 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-04T13:00:32 *** cfaftw has quit 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2011-01-04T15:49:10 *** medrimonia has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-04T15:52:47 *** cfaftw has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-04T16:02:13 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-01-04T16:02:14 *** bhasker_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-04T16:04:24 have there been any decisions made on what game will be played for the next contest? 2011-01-04T16:05:18 i don't think so. lots of unofficial talk though. 2011-01-04T16:05:56 or maybe there has been, but it is not public. 2011-01-04T16:05:59 just curious... i was checking out the forums and the google code site, and i didn't see anything even hinting at a decision yet 2011-01-04T16:06:54 galcon ai was so much fun 2011-01-04T16:07:08 yes, it was a very nice choice. 2011-01-04T16:07:17 i'm hoping the next contest will use a game that is at least as interesting :) 2011-01-04T16:08:07 i hadn't read jmcarthur's tron suggesetion until last night. although it is like the first tron, in that they have the same name, the game is completely different. 2011-01-04T16:11:22 where is that suggestion? 2011-01-04T16:12:15 http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1228 2011-01-04T16:15:45 *** medrimonia has left #aichallenge 2011-01-04T16:17:01 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-04T16:20:41 *** bhasker_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2011-01-04T16:21:27 *** JamesMG has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-01-04T16:21:44 *** JamesMG has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-04T16:24:07 *** Palmik has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-01-04T16:28:16 (sorry, was afk) 2011-01-04T16:28:23 wow, i like the walls obscuring visibility idea 2011-01-04T16:29:08 *** JamesMG has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-01-04T16:33:15 *** p4p4p4 has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [SeaMonkey 2.0a3/20090223135443]) 2011-01-04T16:37:38 yeah, it looks quite a bit more complicated. I suppose that it could be easier than it seems, but it sounds good. 2011-01-04T16:40:25 unrelated, but does anyone know of reputible personal email hosts that aren't free? 2011-01-04T16:42:49 i already have web hosting through A Small Orange, i guess i should look into what they offer as far as email goes 2011-01-04T16:45:39 i copped out, and have just used email forwarding to my gmail account for years. 2011-01-04T16:46:17 i also got tired of managing it. 2011-01-04T16:46:24 yeah i'm using gmail now 2011-01-04T16:51:27 *** boegel has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2011-01-04T16:56:57 *** Rubicon-|-Cross has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-04T16:59:31 *** cfaftw has quit IRC (Quit: going home!) 2011-01-04T17:00:07 dmj111: yeah! i think it keeps the "fun parts" from tron while removing the things i didn't like about it (easy to turn into simple game tree search) and making it significantly different from the original 2011-01-04T17:06:04 *** mega1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-01-04T17:13:24 *** RubiconCross has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-04T17:14:28 *** Rubicon-|-Cross has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-01-04T17:27:49 cfaftw: have you taken a look at the ants proposal? 2011-01-04T17:27:53 *** Naktibalda has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-01-04T17:27:59 dmj111: another bonus is that if i was to sit down to start writing AI for it i would have no idea where to begin 2011-01-04T17:28:18 antimatroid1: cfaftw left 2011-01-04T17:28:29 jmcarthur: :) i am good at that 2011-01-04T17:30:06 antimatroid1: you said of the tron idea that you think your AI from the tron contest would still apply. i'm curious what kind of AI you had. there's no way a mere game tree search would work, as far as i can tell 2011-01-04T17:30:58 it would still be a game tree, it just wouldn't get as deep 2011-01-04T17:31:04 but the evaluation function would end up much the same 2011-01-04T17:31:19 i don't think enough would change for me to care about spending a lot of time on a bot 2011-01-04T17:31:41 it wouldn't get anywhere *near* as deep 2011-01-04T17:31:58 and what kind of evaluation function do you have that would work even with obscured parts of the map? 2011-01-04T17:32:34 close range combat (the interesting part) is what i'm referring to 2011-01-04T17:32:38 where you can see them 2011-01-04T17:32:59 ah, you call that the interesting part, but i think that part would become less interesting in this version 2011-01-04T17:33:30 more interesting would be trying to predict which side of a wall your opponent will be coming from or covering all your bases effectively when you can't even begin to guess 2011-01-04T17:33:33 i would personally be in favour of an entirely new game 2011-01-04T17:33:44 or what might happen when you end up having to go into uncharted territory 2011-01-04T17:34:13 and trying to coordinate your bikes effectively 2011-01-04T17:34:27 ah okay 2011-01-04T17:34:33 *eh okay 2011-01-04T17:34:38 :) 2011-01-04T17:34:44 anyway, i'm going out for a few hours 2011-01-04T17:36:26 if you could manage a 6 ply tree in the first tron contest, you wouldn't even be able to manage a 2 ply tree in this one 2011-01-04T17:36:49 they have the same number of leaves respectively, but you can prune even less of them 2011-01-04T17:36:51 a1k0n was getting over 15 layers deep 2011-01-04T17:36:55 we were getting like 10 2011-01-04T17:37:00 i had 12 2011-01-04T17:37:05 before i went uct 2011-01-04T17:37:20 and we weren't using alpha-beta or trimming or anything 2011-01-04T17:37:23 that was a full minimax tree 2011-01-04T17:37:42 although we did recycle part of the tree at the start of each turn 2011-01-04T17:38:03 15 deep in the old one has the same number of leaves as 5 deep in this variation 2011-01-04T17:38:07 i liked planet wars because one couldn't just use a minimax tree (despite my attempts :D) 2011-01-04T17:38:19 anyway, i'll be back later 2011-01-04T17:38:24 i think a minimax tree would be of minimal benefit, but oh well 2011-01-04T17:46:58 *** amstan_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-04T17:46:58 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan_ 2011-01-04T17:50:58 *** davidjliu has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-04T17:51:13 jmcarthur: yeah, it doesn't seem obvious. maybe it would be after a few weeks. 2011-01-04T17:51:39 well now i'm not sure whether this engine i'm putting together should be the tron game or the stratego game 2011-01-04T17:51:46 ha. 2011-01-04T17:51:57 just a minute ago i started the stratego-specific code 2011-01-04T17:52:07 i think the stratego would be fun to play, but in a way, both games look pretty hard. 2011-01-04T17:52:23 i want hard, personally 2011-01-04T17:52:29 don't take my opinion as being popular :) 2011-01-04T17:53:11 i think the ants idea has some promise too, but looking at your tron proposal I suddenly realized how different it was. 2011-01-04T17:53:40 and stratego, well, I had it as a kid, but no one would play it.. so there is my motivation :) 2011-01-04T17:53:51 maybe we could make it massively different by giving each player 100 bikes on a huge map 2011-01-04T17:53:59 :P 2011-01-04T17:54:12 it would be a light bike army 2011-01-04T17:54:28 there would almost be no point to that though, IMO 2011-01-04T17:54:48 maybe figuring out which bikes to sacrifice to make room for yourself. 2011-01-04T17:54:55 yeah... 2011-01-04T17:55:08 and yes, hard is probably good, but at least simple enough that lots of people still try. 2011-01-04T17:55:16 to be honest though, there is something appealing about that idea in that it's a game that no mere human could even play by himself 2011-01-04T17:56:19 those sound fun, and I think would lead to relatively simple engines. 2011-01-04T17:56:54 well, we're about to find out, at least in the case of the stratego idea 2011-01-04T17:56:55 the ants thing looks fun too, antimatroid, so I am not leaving you out. 2011-01-04T17:57:11 i think the stratego one is more complex than the ants one 2011-01-04T17:57:25 which has good and bad consequences 2011-01-04T17:57:52 i really want something with *depth* though, and i feel like that's something we were lacking in planet wars and maybe tron 2011-01-04T17:58:06 complexity often comes along for the ride when you have more depth 2011-01-04T17:58:45 hmm... to be more specific, i want something that will actually encourage *strategies* 2011-01-04T17:59:07 not just fancy algorithms 2011-01-04T17:59:34 hmm.. a thought I just had was I want the game to _look_ simple enough, but figuring out which moves to make may not be that easy. 2011-01-04T17:59:43 yeah 2011-01-04T17:59:59 i think the ants game stands a chance at being like that, with some tweaking 2011-01-04T18:00:14 currently i think it lacks depth though 2011-01-04T18:00:26 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-04T18:00:36 you can choose to make a wall of ants here or a wall of ants there, but it doesn't make a huge difference as far as i can tell 2011-01-04T18:01:03 yeah, I imagine a big trick there is managing what you know about the state of the game. 2011-01-04T18:01:19 i'm hoping to take this real time stratego idea and simplify it a bit 2011-01-04T18:01:34 cool. sounds interesting. 2011-01-04T18:01:51 I'll be back later. time to bike and play with the kids. 2011-01-04T18:01:53 hi sigh! 2011-01-04T18:01:54 i'm honestly not sure what i can cut out though 2011-01-04T18:02:01 cool have fun 2011-01-04T18:02:11 hi :) 2011-01-04T18:07:10 *** mceier has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2011-01-04T18:28:25 *** narnach has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-04T19:02:54 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-01-04T19:13:27 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-04T19:33:19 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-01-04T19:34:01 *** amriedle has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-04T19:38:41 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-04T21:00:24 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Quit: bhasker) 2011-01-04T21:34:31 *** Accoun has quit IRC (Ping 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