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2011-01-13T02:55:57  <jmcarthur> sweet, my line of sight stuff is working now. i had a stupid typo bug
2011-01-13T02:56:02  <jmcarthur> https://gist.github.com/777544
2011-01-13T02:56:47  <jmcarthur> just a simple map with two static (always visible) walls plus four (not always visible) walls created by the bikes
2011-01-13T02:57:30  <jmcarthur> the map needs a border, woops
2011-01-13T03:11:35  <jmcarthur> and here we are from one bot's point a view as we step through a few turns: https://gist.github.com/777556
2011-01-13T03:11:41  <jmcarthur> *point of view
2011-01-13T03:12:11  <jmcarthur> again without the map borders that i should have added
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2011-01-13T06:13:45  <Blkt> good day everyone
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2011-01-13T06:17:11  <aerique> hi Blkt
2011-01-13T06:17:18  <Blkt> hi aerique
2011-01-13T06:17:21  <Blkt> how are you?
2011-01-13T06:17:47  <aerique> i'm at work so not super fine :)
2011-01-13T06:18:45  <Blkt> ahahah
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2011-01-13T13:13:28  <McLeopold> Is anyone in love with Jeff's Simplified Ant Wars?
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2011-01-13T13:15:52  <jmcarthur> McLeopold: not as it is, but we had a good discussion about it here last night about something that may give it a lot more depth
2011-01-13T13:16:10  <McLeopold> http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1245&p=8392#p8392
2011-01-13T13:16:19  <McLeopold> okay, read that, I'll read the irc logs
2011-01-13T13:16:27  <McLeopold> what time was the discussion?
2011-01-13T13:16:49  <jmcarthur> i forget. my client died between then and now
2011-01-13T13:16:53  <jmcarthur> lemme check the logs
2011-01-13T13:17:53  <jmcarthur> McLeopold: search for "2011-01-12T22:04:14" at http://contestbot.hypertriangle.com/channellogs/%23aichallenge/%23aichallenge.2011-01-12.log
2011-01-13T13:18:47  <amstan_irssi> McLeopold: i know eh?
2011-01-13T13:18:50  <amstan_irssi> we fed the ants
2011-01-13T13:20:12  <McLeopold> what does feed ant's do?
2011-01-13T13:20:19  <jmcarthur> btw, the ant feeding has broken the endgame checker
2011-01-13T13:20:25  <jmcarthur> i tested it out last night
2011-01-13T13:21:22  <amstan_irssi> jmcarthur: yep.. i know, you just have to watch the images and kill it
2011-01-13T13:21:33  <amstan_irssi> jmcarthur: but then the makefile will remove the first image
2011-01-13T13:21:34  <amstan_irssi> and..
2011-01-13T13:21:35  <amstan_irssi> yeah..
2011-01-13T13:21:38  <amstan_irssi> it's messed up
2011-01-13T13:21:40  <jmcarthur> yeah that sucks :)
2011-01-13T13:21:41  <amstan_irssi> someone should fix it
2011-01-13T13:23:39  <jmcarthur> amstan_irssi: it's not quite right yet, but here's a few steps of the tron game (from the point of view of just one player) from when i was testing it out: https://gist.github.com/777556
2011-01-13T13:23:44  <McLeopold> haha, minecraft is sponge bob...  That's all I got out of the logs.
2011-01-13T13:23:52  <jmcarthur> amstan_irssi: i forgot to put borders around the map, and that's only 1v1 instead of 3v3
2011-01-13T13:24:06  <jmcarthur> lol
2011-01-13T13:24:30  <McLeopold> jmcarthur: I like the outnumbering idea.  I think it is good.
2011-01-13T13:24:48  <McLeopold> It really changes the game.
2011-01-13T13:25:06  <amstan_irssi> outnumbering?
2011-01-13T13:25:21  <McLeopold> 2 ants beat 1 ant.  the 2 both remain.
2011-01-13T13:25:36  <amstan_irssi> does that happen yet?
2011-01-13T13:25:36  <amstan_irssi> lol
2011-01-13T13:25:41  <McLeopold> That might be tough to implement, though.
2011-01-13T13:25:53  <jmcarthur> McLeopold: your idea sounds kind of like king of the hill, but with multiple hills. am i understanding it right?
2011-01-13T13:26:00  <McLeopold> Yes.
2011-01-13T13:26:06  <jmcarthur> amstan_irssi: no, we're suggesting that it *should* happen
2011-01-13T13:26:13  <amstan_irssi> ok
2011-01-13T13:26:17  <jmcarthur> amstan_irssi: it would mean you have to have good micro
2011-01-13T13:26:55  <McLeopold> So, figuring out which ants should be removed would be like playing a game of minesweeper.
2011-01-13T13:26:57  <jmcarthur> McLeopold: does being near *any* hill give you points, or only your own?
2011-01-13T13:27:14  <McLeopold> Any hill, so you just need hills, not specific hills.
2011-01-13T13:27:26  <McLeopold> An you just need more than the leader to pull ahead or catch up.
2011-01-13T13:27:55  <amstan_irssi> well.. the repo is up, feel free to fork it, play with it
2011-01-13T13:28:24  <McLeopold> Okay, feel free to think about it and comment on it. ;)
2011-01-13T13:28:37  <amstan_irssi> i like it
2011-01-13T13:28:52  <jmcarthur> i'll be thinking about it too while i work on the tron game
2011-01-13T13:28:59  <jmcarthur> :P
2011-01-13T13:29:12  <jmcarthur> but really, i think we're getting some decent ideas now
2011-01-13T13:29:16  <amstan_irssi> yeah
2011-01-13T13:30:05  <McLeopold> jmcarthur: can an ant be a support to a fellow ant even if he is out of range of the attackers?
2011-01-13T13:30:07  <jmcarthur> i'm still uncertain about the more than two bots in a game thing
2011-01-13T13:30:17  <jmcarthur> McLeopold: you mean like making a chain of ants?
2011-01-13T13:30:22  <jmcarthur> i think that would make it too easy
2011-01-13T13:30:39  <jmcarthur> the largest force would always win by simply not breaking up
2011-01-13T13:30:45  <McLeopold> I'm thinking about how to implement the kill_ant() function.
2011-01-13T13:31:28  <McLeopold> For each ant, total the number of friendlies and enemies in a radius.  If e > f, then you live.
2011-01-13T13:31:36  <jmcarthur> for each ant, count the number of enemy ants and friendly ants in range. if enemies > friendlies, kill the ant
2011-01-13T13:31:39  <jmcarthur> haha!
2011-01-13T13:31:52  <McLeopold> So, the ant doesn't help itself then.
2011-01-13T13:32:11  <McLeopold> It doesn't count toward it's own friendly total?
2011-01-13T13:32:19  <jmcarthur> it should
2011-01-13T13:32:21  <jmcarthur> that was an error
2011-01-13T13:32:26  <jmcarthur> IMO
2011-01-13T13:32:45  <McLeopold> Okay, so then an ant can support a friendly even if out of range of the 2 enemy ants.
2011-01-13T13:32:55  <jmcarthur> i think this formulation though because it's kind of an automata thing
2011-01-13T13:33:01  <jmcarthur> *i think i like
2011-01-13T13:33:08  <jmcarthur> makes it easy to reason about
2011-01-13T13:33:17  <jmcarthur> okay i see what you mean now
2011-01-13T13:33:25  <jmcarthur> i think that's fine as long as it's not a recursive thing
2011-01-13T13:33:27  <McLeopold> yes, the simpler the rules, the best the contest
2011-01-13T13:34:36  <jmcarthur> in fact, that also makes the strategies kind of interesting. as long as it has backup you can attack with just one unit and only risk that unit
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2011-01-13T13:35:18  <jmcarthur> but due to space concerns you can only provide so much backup, so it won't just turn into a bunch of 1v1 battles
2011-01-13T13:35:22  <McLeopold> There might be some ant formations that work well...
2011-01-13T13:35:28  <jmcarthur> yeah
2011-01-13T13:35:51  <McLeopold> Like giant dense block that moves in the same direction.
2011-01-13T13:36:36  <McLeopold> Now it would be like the game of life.
2011-01-13T13:36:56  <jmcarthur> sort of... except that the things actually move rather than just spawn and die occasionally
2011-01-13T13:39:29  <McLeopold> It think if a bot got an advantage it could just bunch it's ants together and be fairly invulnerable.  It which case you may need hills to make an incentive for not bunching.
2011-01-13T13:40:02  <amstan_irssi> oh man.. ant formations!! lol
2011-01-13T13:40:06  <amstan_irssi> this will be so epic
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2011-01-13T13:40:14  <amstan_irssi> i also have a graphics designer in mind
2011-01-13T13:40:15  <jmcarthur> McLeopold: yeah. this alone would not make a great game. the hills might be good
2011-01-13T13:40:18  <amstan_irssi> he made some cool ants
2011-01-13T13:40:24  <amstan_irssi> maybe he can help with the website
2011-01-13T13:40:29  <McLeopold> who?
2011-01-13T13:40:35  <amstan_irssi> someone from sauerbraten
2011-01-13T13:40:42  <amstan_irssi> he made the models from it
2011-01-13T13:43:13  <McLeopold> amstan_irssi: are you a chat bot?  because you're slightly irrelevant right now.
2011-01-13T13:43:52  <amstan_irssi> lol, sorry
2011-01-13T13:43:56  <McLeopold> :)
2011-01-13T13:45:27  <McLeopold> With PlanetWars, you had to balance your initial neutral acquisition with your defense.  Grow to fast and you are defenseless.  Grow to slow and you will be behind.  You had to react to the opponent.
2011-01-13T13:45:40  <McLeopold> An Ant game will need a similar balance to be fun.
2011-01-13T13:49:53  <jmcarthur> omg new minecraft has tons of new stuff and i want to play but i'm resisting but it's hard
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2011-01-13T14:32:08  <pgpaskar_> pew pew
2011-01-13T14:35:36  <amstan_irssi> jmcarthur: what new stuff?
2011-01-13T14:41:48  <jmcarthur> dyes, water mob, blocks that play notes when sent redstone signal, new trees, cake, new blocks and recipes, etc.
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2011-01-13T15:40:19  <amstan_irssi> jmcarthur: oh man!
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2011-01-13T15:54:48  <Cyndre> is the resolution increased yet?
2011-01-13T15:55:04  <Cyndre> like that hn article earlier this week about 8x8 pixel blocks
2011-01-13T15:56:10  <jmcarthur> resolution?
2011-01-13T15:59:57  <Cyndre> size of building bricks
2011-01-13T16:00:04  <Cyndre> by making them smaller it would increase the resolution of the game
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2011-01-13T16:08:48  <jmcarthur> i think that would go against the intended way the game is played, personally
2011-01-13T16:08:55  <jmcarthur> the update doesn't shrink them, in any case
2011-01-13T16:09:23  <jmcarthur> each block is still one meter
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2011-01-13T19:57:28  <Frontier> If Minecraft sold over 1,000,000 times and cost at least $10, then 'notch', the developer must be a very rich person by now.
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2011-01-13T20:41:59  <jmcarthur> indeed
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2011-01-13T21:34:34  <Mathnerd314> well, he has to live
2011-01-13T21:34:45  <Mathnerd314> so notch might just be poor
2011-01-13T21:34:54  <Mathnerd314> and need a lot of money
2011-01-13T21:35:14  <antimatroid> amstan: have you guys done much this week?
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2011-01-13T21:43:16  <pgpaskar_> Frontier: indeed.
2011-01-13T21:43:22  <amstan> antimatroid: oh yeah
2011-01-13T21:43:25  <amstan> antimatroid: a ton
2011-01-13T21:43:32  <amstan> antimatroid: check the forums, there's record of everything
2011-01-13T21:43:41  <pgpaskar_> One good thing will come of thsi though: income = more time dedicated to development + $$ to hire graphic talent
2011-01-13T21:44:00  <amstan> pgpaskar_: idk, i kinda like the gfx
2011-01-13T21:45:04  <pgpaskar_> That doesn't mean it couldn't use an improvement
2011-01-13T21:46:58  <amstan> and there's already texture packers out there
2011-01-13T21:47:00  <amstan> see painterly
2011-01-13T21:51:55  <jmcarthur> i was under the impression that notch has no intention of improving the graphics
2011-01-13T22:08:24  <antimatroid> we made a very wise decision when camping on wednesday to relocate, I would be stranded from floods atm otherwise
2011-01-13T22:08:40  <antimatroid> http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/01/13/3112508.htm
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2011-01-13T22:08:45  <antimatroid> i drove along that road the day before that
2011-01-13T22:09:36  <antimatroid> has anyone looked at this? http://queue.acm.org/icpc/rules.cfm
2011-01-13T22:17:46  <dmj111> glad you are safe !
2011-01-13T22:18:43  <antimatroid> pretty sure we would have been alright where we were, just stuck there :)
2011-01-13T22:19:09  <antimatroid> and possibly not with a dry tent inside
2011-01-13T22:22:06  <dmj111> I just skimmed that acm thing.  looks kind of neat.  good to see these kinds of things in more places.
2011-01-13T22:23:45  <antimatroid> amstan: what is wrong with the home base invasion to win idea for ants? it adds another layer to the strategies people need to employ
2011-01-13T22:24:13  <antimatroid> dmj111: i think i might at least have a play with the acm game
2011-01-13T22:25:14  <dmj111> i am going to look at it a little closer.  too many fun things to do.  "but its a learning experience", i keep telling myself, "not a game!"
2011-01-13T22:25:48  <antimatroid> they've already disheartened me on the first line
2011-01-13T22:25:59  <antimatroid> who the hell indexes grids x y instead of row col
2011-01-13T22:26:48  <sigh> what's wrong with xy?
2011-01-13T22:28:14  <antimatroid> i always use row col and it's confusing for me to have to do otherwise :P
2011-01-13T22:28:32  <antimatroid> it was like my graphics lecturer using xzy instead of xyz for 3d coordinates
2011-01-13T22:29:10  <sigh> what does xzy mean?
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2011-01-13T22:30:14  <sigh> as long as it is right-handed its all good :P
2011-01-13T22:31:43  <antimatroid> it was right handed, but take your normal xyz 3d system indexed with (x,y,z), he would use (x,z,y) with y being the vertically drawn line, z being the horizontal one and x the nomal diagonal one
2011-01-13T22:32:13  <antimatroid> it would be annoying as hell if we met up with aliens and they had left handed coordinates
2011-01-13T22:32:16  <sigh> you had diagonal axis?
2011-01-13T22:32:25  <sigh> :P
2011-01-13T22:32:36  <sigh> I could see how that would be annoying :)
2011-01-13T22:32:41  <antimatroid> or indexed matrices differently, or integrated anticlockwise
2011-01-13T22:32:57  <antimatroid> if you draw a 3d system on a 2d page, you're going to need a diagonal line somewhere
2011-01-13T22:33:12  <sigh> or decided that current was the flowed in the direction the electrons flowed
2011-01-13T22:33:23  <sigh> but no one would do something that silly
2011-01-13T22:33:25  <antimatroid> yeah, that would render all of our books wrong
2011-01-13T22:33:40  <antimatroid> my physical science teacher loved pointing that out
2011-01-13T22:33:55  <sigh> I though you said you didn't do physics
2011-01-13T22:34:06  <antimatroid> i didn't do top physics or chemistry
2011-01-13T22:34:10  <antimatroid> but i did physical science
2011-01-13T22:34:19  <antimatroid> which was like half physics half chemistry
2011-01-13T22:34:26  <antimatroid> so i did a little bit, but the maths was minimal
2011-01-13T22:34:32  <sigh> i see
2011-01-13T22:34:38  <antimatroid> i've learnt more about each from a maths degree
2011-01-13T22:35:17  <antimatroid> not to claim i know much about either
2011-01-13T22:36:09  <sigh> I can pretend to know about them!
2011-01-13T22:36:20  <antimatroid> :P
2011-01-13T22:36:27  <antimatroid> this snowman contest looks awesome
2011-01-13T22:36:31  <antimatroid> did you catch the link?
2011-01-13T22:36:40  <sigh> yeah
2011-01-13T22:36:43  <antimatroid> the strategy space is huge
2011-01-13T22:37:00  <sigh> the description was too long, I gave up reading it before I got to the point
2011-01-13T22:37:26  <antimatroid> you make snowballs of different sizes, try to make snowmen, crush snowballs, place them down etc. etc.
2011-01-13T22:37:38  <antimatroid> i haven't quite got to the point where they describe the actual objective yet
2011-01-13T22:37:45  <sigh> haha
2011-01-13T22:38:05  <antimatroid> but should be good for some very picky game tree variation
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2011-01-13T23:07:23  <antimatroid> they've left a hole in their specification
2011-01-13T23:07:31  <antimatroid> "At the end of the game, the winner is the player with the highest score. If there is a tie in the score, then the player scoring the most points through snowball hits will be the winner. If there is still a tie, the domain size is summed across all turns to break the tie."
2011-01-13T23:07:39  <antimatroid> it is possible for that to still tie i'm pretty sure
2011-01-13T23:11:27  <jmcarthur> what snowball game?
2011-01-13T23:11:50  <jmcarthur> oh found it
2011-01-13T23:14:44  <antimatroid> i'm going to give it a play, not sure how much time i'll have for it though
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2011-01-13T23:15:54  <amstan> Chris_0076: anyway..
2011-01-13T23:15:58  <amstan> you should really try this
2011-01-13T23:16:06  <amstan> a lot of fun
2011-01-13T23:16:18  <amstan> you could compeete and contribute code to the backend as well
2011-01-13T23:16:34  <Chris_0076> hmmm, perhaps
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2011-01-13T23:16:57  <amstan> backend's in python anyway..
2011-01-13T23:17:06  <Chris_0076> I noticed ^^
2011-01-13T23:17:43  <amstan> main repo's at vvv for now
2011-01-13T23:17:44  <amstan> @repo
2011-01-13T23:17:45  <contestbot> amstan: repo = https://github.com/amstan/aichallenge/
2011-01-13T23:18:51  <Chris_0076> Forked ^^
2011-01-13T23:19:09  <amstan> well.. you're the first.. lol
2011-01-13T23:20:00  <Chris_0076> still don't have good git chops though....
2011-01-13T23:23:42  <amstan> you'll learn
2011-01-13T23:24:02  <antimatroid> is that ChrisH?
2011-01-13T23:24:34  <Chris_0076> no =(
2011-01-13T23:24:49  <amstan> antimatroid: how's chris h?
2011-01-13T23:25:04  <antimatroid> he came 24th in planet wars
2011-01-13T23:25:31  <antimatroid> one of the pesky americans
2011-01-13T23:25:52  <amstan> oh, ok
2011-01-13T23:25:59  <amstan> no.. this is another cool chris
2011-01-13T23:28:10  <sigh> is he cooler than the other 75 chrises?
2011-01-13T23:28:22  <Chris_0076> I hope not O_o
2011-01-13T23:33:42  <antimatroid> anyone else going to play around with this snowman game?
2011-01-13T23:33:56  <antimatroid> i think i'm ready to write some code, i hope it doesn't have to be a single file
2011-01-13T23:34:33  <sigh> have you figured out what the point of the game is?
2011-01-13T23:40:33  <antimatroid> to get the highest score
2011-01-13T23:40:49  <sigh> thanks, that was helpful
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2011-01-13T23:41:17  <antimatroid> you get scores based on your domain (field of vision) which is based off what your kids and snowmen can see, and for hitting them with snowballs
2011-01-13T23:41:38  <antimatroid> movement is more complicated than necessary, but whatever
2011-01-13T23:41:52  <sigh> hmm... i see
2011-01-13T23:41:58  <sigh> seems a bit of an odd scoring system
2011-01-13T23:42:22  <antimatroid> it's a weird game, but pretty easy to get started, and i want something like this to just play with
2011-01-13T23:42:24  <antimatroid> so it'll do
2011-01-13T23:42:43  <sigh> cool
2011-01-13T23:42:48  <sigh> it works with any language?
2011-01-13T23:43:12  <antimatroid> C++, C#, java or python
2011-01-13T23:43:26  <sigh> ahh
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