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I keep an eye on it, but there is too little support and a few open issues, like 64-bit support and shared libraries under linux. I really miss full IDE support with all the productivity tools you have in Java or at least C++ by now. 2011-01-21T12:03:57 Try brainfuck - that hurts your brain 2011-01-21T12:04:50 Yeah, I think whitespace is worse. :) 2011-01-21T12:05:30 Lisp's syntax is so far away from what I'm used to that I might never touch it again. (Except for the one time in an ai course) 2011-01-21T12:06:16 I'm actually groking it pretty fast. I tried a few years ago, but didn't get it. 2011-01-21T12:06:27 I'm reading "Land of Lisip" 2011-01-21T12:06:32 *Lisp* 2011-01-21T12:08:01 what did you mean by "everything but the kitchen sink"? I thought you don't know the language. 2011-01-21T12:08:50 *** boegel has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T12:09:13 I'm reading wikipedia. 2011-01-21T12:09:29 http://landoflisp.com/ 2011-01-21T12:09:32 any news on the next contest? when? 2011-01-21T12:09:34 oh the one and only source of wisdon ^^ 2011-01-21T12:09:38 nope 2011-01-21T12:10:26 McLeopold: hmmk, thx 2011-01-21T12:10:39 McLeopold: what about the type of game for the contest? 2011-01-21T12:10:47 i was a D guy in the pre-2.0 days 2011-01-21T12:11:16 it's *much* nicer than C++, which i'd say is its closest relative 2011-01-21T12:11:52 but that comparison also says a lot about it 2011-01-21T12:12:04 it's basically C++ done right 2011-01-21T12:12:49 lol, that is what i was looking for. a replacement for c++. 2011-01-21T12:14:40 you can use a garbage collector, and use 'auto' as variable type. Where you write something like "MySpecialClass mc = new MySpecialClass(...);" it becomes "auto mc = ...". It isn't necessary to repeat the class name. 2011-01-21T12:14:51 well, then i would highly recommend D, if that's your goal 2011-01-21T12:15:42 it's true that it lacks a lot of tool and community support. that's its biggest problem 2011-01-21T12:15:50 but first i have to read McLeopolds LISP comic with the ant that says "omnomnom" while eating honey 2011-01-21T12:16:08 lack of adoption leads to even less adoption :( 2011-01-21T12:17:21 Code::Blocks has a pretty good C++ parser and code completion plugin. But they have no D developer in their team to extend the plugin. I think that would be a real popularity booster, as quite a few C developers use Code::Blocks 2011-01-21T12:18:04 The plugin supports D, but you only get very basic code completion. 2011-01-21T12:19:32 boegel: We need to get Jeff to commit to an announcement date. 2011-01-21T12:20:41 McLeopold: hmmk, cool 2011-01-21T12:25:10 *** boegel has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2011-01-21T12:28:53 McLeopold: The LISP functional guild cruiser kills bugs with functions that have no side effects. In D there is the 'pure' keyword for that purpose. ++ on some dates, even just a 'game idea submission deadline'. 2011-01-21T12:30:24 I think we need another round of voting. 2011-01-21T12:32:02 Another round of voting? I wonder what Jeff wants to decide by himself and what is open for a vote. 2011-01-21T12:33:36 LISP macros ... I never really liked them in C. They always felt like 'the language is missing important features so we implemented a macro language in the language'. It may be a different thing in LISP. 2011-01-21T12:34:05 lisp macros are *way* nicer than C macros 2011-01-21T12:34:47 nice enough that it's actually pretty easy to make a new language within lisp just using macros 2011-01-21T12:34:55 and it doesn't look like a pile of crap 2011-01-21T12:35:53 *** dr`away is now known as dr- 2011-01-21T12:36:24 Frontier: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBpfOpk-ZBU <- 37 minutes long, but worth watching for a look at what decent macros can do 2011-01-21T12:36:36 hehe, I also like the 'restarts' that remind me much of a SQL transaction 2011-01-21T12:37:09 restarts? 2011-01-21T12:37:10 In lisp, code is data, so it makes more sense. 2011-01-21T12:37:28 what lisp is this? 2011-01-21T12:37:43 common? 2011-01-21T12:38:21 restart makes me think of STM, which is pretty awesome 2011-01-21T12:38:25 yes, the book covers clisp, but the comic at the end references a lot of different lisp implementations 2011-01-21T12:38:39 clojure has an STM implementation, iirc 2011-01-21T12:38:40 it could be arc or sblc 2011-01-21T12:38:49 ah 2011-01-21T12:41:07 yeah, "code is data" is one of lisp's more interesting properties. not many non-lisp languages have that 2011-01-21T12:41:24 at least, not in such an easily accessible AST 2011-01-21T12:41:25 javascript has json, that pretty close 2011-01-21T12:41:35 Io has it, and a few other dynamic languages do 2011-01-21T12:42:29 a lot of statically typed functional languages don't quite have "code is data," but they do have "functions are data" in that you can dynamically construct an arbitrary function, but you can't deconstruct one already created 2011-01-21T12:43:09 unless of course you make your own AST and interpreter 2011-01-21T12:43:28 overloading can hide the fact that you're working with an AST though, which gives you much of the same end result 2011-01-21T12:43:53 but it's a little more work up front 2011-01-21T12:44:56 *** tapwater has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-01-21T12:45:25 *** tapwater has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T12:45:38 AST? 2011-01-21T12:46:01 abstract syntax tree 2011-01-21T12:46:06 ah 2011-01-21T12:46:08 lisp pretty much *is* an AST 2011-01-21T12:46:37 ANT - Ant's Not Turning-Complete - the AST for the ant wars 2011-01-21T12:47:04 ANTC (pronounced antsy) 2011-01-21T12:47:13 :) 2011-01-21T13:02:41 *** tapwater has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-01-21T13:03:30 *** tapwater has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T13:09:12 *** McLeopold has left #aichallenge 2011-01-21T13:13:14 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T13:15:26 *** ssalbiz has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2011-01-21T13:16:24 *** Naktibalda has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T13:16:34 *** ssalbiz has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T13:16:48 *** mceier has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T13:40:43 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Quit: bhasker) 2011-01-21T13:42:44 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T14:01:32 jmcarthur: I watched the presentation and from what he explained I couldn't see anything that a template function wouldn't solve. But he also talked about scheme and typed-scheme. So I assume basic language elements can be replaced by macros that introduce type safety. That would be a powerful tool... I have yet to associate real world problems with that. I'm thinking too much inside the box here. 2011-01-21T14:03:46 Frontier: part of the appeal of lisp macros is simply that the syntax is easier to work with than most other languages. and yes, you can do a lot of very fancy stuff that require a little mind expansion to fully appreciate 2011-01-21T14:16:28 *** chris__0076 is now known as chris_0076 2011-01-21T14:20:58 * Frontier looks out for the next best drug deale 2011-01-21T14:26:48 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2011-01-21T14:29:52 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T14:30:14 *** McLeopold has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T14:33:06 *** fdsagadsf has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T14:36:50 *** fdsagadsf has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-01-21T14:49:52 *** boegel has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T14:58:43 *** ssalbiz has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-01-21T14:58:51 *** ssalbiz has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T15:06:16 Lol, you can have the D compiler check if a given line of code would compile: "__traits(compiles, x + 1)" -> true. I wonder if this is meant to replace "#ifdef NEW_COMPILER" in the D world. 2011-01-21T15:09:04 ew :) 2011-01-21T15:13:45 *** pgpaskar_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2011-01-21T15:14:31 *** pgpaskar_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T15:15:39 *** choas has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T15:28:38 *** Naktibalda has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-01-21T15:29:14 *** Accoun has quit IRC () 2011-01-21T15:34:49 yay - just moved my modem polling script to a new server and finished getting it working (updated packages etc). Cut my polling time in half :)' 2011-01-21T15:43:53 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T15:54:04 I use (soon to be used) D1 for my arimaa bot, I'm giving and going to C++ because of running into too many problems in the compiler 2011-01-21T15:54:21 s/giving/giving in/ 2011-01-21T15:54:48 arimaa bot? 2011-01-21T15:55:13 Arimaa engine? program that plays arimaa 2011-01-21T15:55:19 http://arimaa.com/ 2011-01-21T15:55:32 chess like game that is difficult for computers 2011-01-21T15:55:57 yea I ran across this when everyone was talking about the next challenge 2011-01-21T16:05:12 *** tapwater has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-01-21T16:05:42 *** tapwater has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T16:08:12 *** tapwater has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T16:15:14 *** iFire has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-01-21T16:17:53 *** iFire has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T16:23:53 the forums would be a lot more manageable if there was a one-click delete-post-and-ban-user button (maybe still with a confirmation) 2011-01-21T16:29:34 *** Cold-Phoenix has quit IRC () 2011-01-21T16:31:14 jmcarthur: +1 2011-01-21T16:31:29 jmcarthur: it doesn't slow them down though 2011-01-21T16:52:30 amstan_i : just please don't delete my account once more ... ;) i don't have anything interesting to post about so i have 0 posts :D 2011-01-21T17:02:21 *** choas has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2011-01-21T17:23:18 *** boegel has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2011-01-21T17:47:58 *** mega1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2011-01-21T17:59:57 *** Prillicy has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T18:08:50 amstan_i: you around? 2011-01-21T18:32:10 *** dr- is now known as dr`away 2011-01-21T18:35:06 dr`away: i'm sorry 2011-01-21T18:35:14 dr`away: just post something in introductions then.. 2011-01-21T18:35:22 that's not spam.. 2011-01-21T18:48:21 *** janzert has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2011-01-21T18:48:55 I am taking a look at the stopforumspam stuff now 2011-01-21T18:49:12 *** janzert has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T18:49:37 were you able to get it set up amstan_i? 2011-01-21T19:27:51 *** mceier has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2011-01-21T19:33:09 *** delt0r_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T19:34:30 *** delt0r___ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-01-21T19:48:38 *** Meatkat has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-01-21T20:01:04 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T20:01:04 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2011-01-21T20:16:48 *** McLeopold has left #aichallenge 2011-01-21T20:25:35 *** amstan has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-01-21T20:34:49 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2011-01-21T20:37:52 *** dlila has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2011-01-21T20:48:17 *** tapwater has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-01-21T20:50:21 *** tapwater has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T21:07:07 *** Frontier has left #aichallenge 2011-01-21T21:28:54 *** amstan_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T21:28:54 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan_ 2011-01-21T21:33:31 http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/01/hit-and-run-accident-devolves-into-vigilante-beating.html 2011-01-21T21:33:34 that's just absurd 2011-01-21T22:02:34 *** tapwater has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-01-21T22:07:52 *** tapwater has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T22:43:56 *** javagamer has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-01-21T22:58:57 *** javagamer has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T23:02:58 *** chris__0076 has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T23:06:09 *** chris_0076 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2011-01-21T23:09:09 *** chris___0076 has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T23:10:16 *** greghaynes has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-01-21T23:11:08 *** chris__0076 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-01-21T23:14:35 *** greghaynes has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T23:24:00 *** greghaynes has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) 2011-01-21T23:30:14 *** greghaynes has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T23:36:24 *** Accoun has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2011-01-21T23:40:42 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2011-01-21T23:41:52 *** amstan_ is now known as amstan