2011-02-02T01:36:05 *** Meatkat has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2011-02-02T01:40:17 *** sigh has left #aichallenge ("Leaving") 2011-02-02T01:43:28 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T01:48:49 *** chris___0076 has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T01:50:47 *** chris__0076 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-02-02T01:52:04 *** bhasker_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T01:54:02 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2011-02-02T02:02:41 *** mega1 has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T02:05:36 *** Meatkat has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T02:06:31 *** chris__0076 has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T02:09:50 *** chris___0076 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-02-02T02:13:33 *** Meatkat has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-02-02T02:27:06 *** pyro- has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T02:47:00 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T02:56:38 *** AlliedEnvy has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-02-02T03:17:29 *** amstan_ has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) 2011-02-02T03:33:27 *** aerique has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T03:45:00 *** chris___0076 has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T03:47:12 *** chris__0076 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-02-02T04:08:07 *** boegel has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T04:13:42 *** pyro- has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3) 2011-02-02T04:18:59 *** Naktibalda has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T04:30:10 *** Meatkat has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T04:32:23 *** Palmik has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T04:58:53 *** chris__0076 has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T05:01:12 *** chris___0076 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-02-02T05:01:45 *** chris___0076 has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T05:02:56 *** delt0r_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T05:03:36 *** chris__0076 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-02-02T05:04:16 *** delt0r___ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-02-02T05:24:44 *** chris__0076 has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T05:26:11 *** Blkt has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T05:26:49 *** chris___0076 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-02-02T05:48:18 good morning everyone 2011-02-02T05:51:01 *** chris___0076 has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T05:53:13 *** chris__0076 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-02-02T06:03:35 *** Meatkat has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2011-02-02T06:24:13 *** Blkt has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-02-02T06:30:54 *** mceier has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T07:04:39 *** chris__0076 has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T07:07:13 *** chris___0076 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-02-02T07:59:03 *** aerique has quit IRC (Quit: ...) 2011-02-02T08:01:31 *** sigh has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-02-02T10:24:32 *** aerique has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T10:37:00 *** aerique has quit IRC (Quit: ...) 2011-02-02T10:49:30 *** Mathnerd314 has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T11:16:36 *** elimisteve has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-02-02T11:23:45 *** amstan_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T11:23:45 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan_ 2011-02-02T11:40:27 *** boegel has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2011-02-02T11:47:22 *** dsaf has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T11:51:59 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T11:52:29 *** Umsturz has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T11:55:21 *** Umsturz has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-02-02T12:03:38 *** smellyhippy has quit IRC (Quit: Take your stinking clause off me you damn dirty predicate!) 2011-02-02T12:04:00 *** smellyhippy has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T12:08:26 *** McLeopold has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T12:30:00 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Quit: bhasker) 2011-02-02T12:31:19 *** McLeopold1 has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T12:33:16 *** McLeopold has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-02-02T12:33:49 *** McLeopold1 has left #aichallenge 2011-02-02T12:52:12 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T13:00:16 *** Naktibalda has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716]) 2011-02-02T13:02:55 *** delt0r___ has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T13:04:10 *** delt0r_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-02-02T13:26:13 *** dlila has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T13:35:01 *** Meatkat has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T13:37:22 *** boegel has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T13:40:07 *** boegel has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-02-02T13:49:37 *** mceier has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2011-02-02T14:38:16 *** boegel has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T14:42:22 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2011-02-02T14:43:06 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T14:59:00 *** Kingpin13 has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T15:06:20 *** smellyhippy2 has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T15:06:20 *** smellyhippy2 has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T15:06:47 *** smellyhippy has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-02-02T15:06:57 *** Naktibalda has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T15:08:22 *** smellyhippy2 is now known as smelylhippy 2011-02-02T15:09:27 *** javagamer has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T15:14:09 *** Accoun has quit IRC () 2011-02-02T15:26:51 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T15:29:54 *** McLeopold has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T15:43:53 *** KP13 has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T15:46:30 *** Kingpin13 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-02-02T15:46:32 *** janzert has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2011-02-02T15:54:54 *** fgump has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T15:57:06 *** KP13 is now known as Kingpin13 2011-02-02T16:00:37 *** delt0r___ has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-02-02T16:01:00 *** delt0r___ has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T16:13:13 *** boegel has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2011-02-02T16:15:53 *** AlliedEnvy has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T16:22:09 *** smelylhippy is now known as smellyhippy 2011-02-02T16:24:25 *** javagamer has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2011-02-02T16:58:23 *** Naktibalda has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-02-02T17:00:17 amstan: I'm making some changes to simpleants, and learning git and github 2011-02-02T17:00:30 amstan_: ^ 2011-02-02T17:01:06 git rocks 2011-02-02T17:11:47 I've learned hg, now git. 2011-02-02T17:11:54 The branches confused me for a second. 2011-02-02T17:12:14 but maybe it's just how the aicontent repository is setup? 2011-02-02T17:12:58 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) 2011-02-02T17:13:05 And as an aside, I always find it humorous how some python programmers only put one class in one file. Java holdover? 2011-02-02T17:13:22 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T17:13:52 well, git does funny stuff with branches like hiding everything else 2011-02-02T17:15:19 *** AlliedEnvy has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-02-02T17:16:18 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T17:16:38 Yeah, that's what got me. 2011-02-02T17:17:03 I kept looking for a tree directory in my clone, but couldn't find it. I've got it down now. 2011-02-02T17:18:17 My only question now is, how do I copy a changeset from one fork to another using github? Or do I have to clone local and pull it that way? 2011-02-02T17:25:43 *** amstan_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-02-02T17:28:08 *** javagamer has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T17:29:02 *** AlliedEnvy has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T17:42:01 *** javagamer has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-02-02T17:48:19 *** javagamer has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T17:50:30 *** janzert has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T18:27:47 *** Palmik has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-02-02T18:43:38 *** rebelxt1 has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T18:45:03 *** rebelxt has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-02-02T18:52:43 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-02-02T18:52:51 McLeopold: You probably want to issue a "Pull Request" from GitHub. 2011-02-02T18:58:09 *** chris___0076 has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T18:58:36 woot! used my tron bot's code as a code sample for a potential employer 2011-02-02T18:58:56 =D 2011-02-02T19:00:53 *** chris__0076 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-02-02T19:03:03 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T19:03:36 *** chris___0076 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-02-02T19:10:17 *** Kingpin13 has quit IRC (Quit: You're a kitty!) 2011-02-02T19:10:56 *** mega1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-02-02T19:16:04 *** chris___0076 has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T19:16:12 jbroman: I ended up doing this "git checkout -b simpleants remotes/origin/simpleants" 2011-02-02T19:16:38 Zannick: do you have ai-contest forum powers? 2011-02-02T19:16:56 yeah 2011-02-02T19:17:14 I tried uploading an animated gif but I got a generic error message... 2011-02-02T19:17:26 Could not upload attachment to ./files/1059_7e5de8da47513d9d298b8e04c6263c32. 2011-02-02T19:17:33 *** Migi32 has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T19:17:46 how big is it? 2011-02-02T19:18:10 0.8mb 2011-02-02T19:18:41 i dunno 2011-02-02T19:18:50 Maybe cause I gave it a link file? 2011-02-02T19:19:22 you could try uploading the image to a dedicated image host like imgur and just include the img in your post 2011-02-02T19:19:32 imgur ftw 2011-02-02T19:19:48 ok 2011-02-02T19:20:25 i'm guessing you added new hotness to the game 2011-02-02T19:20:40 i look forward to seeing it. anything to improve what i've seen so far... :) 2011-02-02T19:21:33 *** amstan_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T19:21:33 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan_ 2011-02-02T19:22:10 http://imgur.com/e5HCt 2011-02-02T19:22:52 btw, i picked up my tron bot today to test it before showing off the code, and i found that it just utterly fails when i'm using the brainfuck scheduler patch for the linux kernel. i have no idea why 2011-02-02T19:24:09 McLeopold: wicked! is this with the idea about what to do with large battles? 2011-02-02T19:24:19 trying to make sure i'm understanding it right 2011-02-02T19:25:05 it's cool seeing them lock together like that 2011-02-02T19:26:09 the ai seems to be doing the wrong thing there. linking forces together rather than sending them to the point of conflict where they would actually help 2011-02-02T19:26:26 jmcarthur: I think I know why. 2011-02-02T19:26:53 are they just afraid to "let go" or something? 2011-02-02T19:26:56 It's hunter bot, I think it just tries to move toward the enemy, but when it bumps against itself, the move fails. 2011-02-02T19:27:00 ah 2011-02-02T19:27:08 that makes sense then 2011-02-02T19:27:21 this implements our idea of more ants win. 2011-02-02T19:27:39 yes 2011-02-02T19:27:54 i'm quite pleased with it. it looks like it does indeed change the whole game 2011-02-02T19:27:57 the "locking" is just a side affect of hunter bot 2011-02-02T19:28:26 It took about 10 sample games to get a good representation of how it changes things. 2011-02-02T19:29:02 ah, yeah, it probably would easier to show with a more sophisticated ai 2011-02-02T19:29:20 especially having it play against hunter 2011-02-02T19:29:23 You can see black lose a lot of forces at the lower right to yellow because he sent them in a single line. Yellow doesn't lose much. 2011-02-02T19:29:56 a few moves after white is gone 2011-02-02T19:29:56 it's also interesting to see black holding off two huge lines of yellows because they weren't attacking properly 2011-02-02T19:30:14 only losing when a third force comes in from the side 2011-02-02T19:30:15 yea, but ultimately doomed 2011-02-02T19:30:38 If black was holding an objective, this behavior is desireable. 2011-02-02T19:30:43 yeah 2011-02-02T19:30:58 well, but if yellow were more sophisticated it wouldn't have worked anyway 2011-02-02T19:31:28 this game requires planning for an attack, i just realized 2011-02-02T19:31:44 *** sigh has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-02-02T19:31:49 you have to try to get an arc around an enemy group or something 2011-02-02T19:31:54 I wonder if I can get 8 players in... 2011-02-02T19:32:39 screw 8. try 1000 :P 2011-02-02T19:32:59 ok 2011-02-02T19:33:01 lol 2011-02-02T19:33:08 maybe make the map a little bigger ;) 2011-02-02T19:33:24 I'm thinking smaller maps might be better. 2011-02-02T19:33:26 McLeopold: what do you need? to integrate the changes from a fork back into the main branch? 2011-02-02T19:33:34 amstan_: check out his gif! 2011-02-02T19:33:46 jmcarthur: i saw, i don't get why they lock though 2011-02-02T19:33:52 http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1243&p=8558#p8558 2011-02-02T19:34:00 That should explain it 2011-02-02T19:34:41 amstan_: I don't think I need anything. Just wanted to make you aware I forked the project. I'm still learning github and git, so advice is welcome. 2011-02-02T19:35:07 McLeopold: what do you have in mind for the fair and random food spawning? 2011-02-02T19:35:13 McLeopold: well.. you did ask a qn about it, i can answer 2011-02-02T19:35:23 symmetrical food placement? 2011-02-02T19:35:25 I've got some code written. 2011-02-02T19:35:32 Not quite. 2011-02-02T19:35:45 github has a gist, right? 2011-02-02T19:35:57 gist.github.com i think 2011-02-02T19:36:21 is the term "gist" used in other places as well? 2011-02-02T19:36:55 not that i know of 2011-02-02T19:38:09 https://gist.github.com/808812 2011-02-02T19:38:21 Okay, it works like this... 2011-02-02T19:38:53 McLeopold: fair and random? huh? 2011-02-02T19:38:54 Let's say you want 6 die rolls, but you want to make sure each number comes up once, because that's fair. 2011-02-02T19:39:25 Or, with 2 die, there are 36 combos, and you want each once to be rolled once, because that's fair. 2011-02-02T19:39:47 It's really just listing the numbers and then randomizing the order. 2011-02-02T19:40:16 ah, a shuffle 2011-02-02T19:40:31 Then you can put other restraints on it, like an infinite number of die rolls, but when one number hasn't been rolled enough, it is "due" 2011-02-02T19:40:40 and the algorithm inforces it 2011-02-02T19:41:07 so basically you're making the gambler's fallacy true 2011-02-02T19:41:07 so.. 2011-02-02T19:41:11 So, for Ant Wars, I would divide the map into sections that are symmetrical 2011-02-02T19:41:13 list.shuffle()? 2011-02-02T19:41:25 jmcarthur: yes.. i agree, fair doesn't mean it has to come up at least once 2011-02-02T19:41:26 And then those sections would be subdivided. 2011-02-02T19:41:38 amstan_: well, i actually kind of like this 2011-02-02T19:41:53 amstan_: it means that there's a little bit of reasoning the bot can apply when looking for food 2011-02-02T19:42:06 amstan_: see a lot of food in one area and you can reasonably expect less food to appear there in the near future 2011-02-02T19:42:15 Each section would then get a certain rate of spawned food, and the probability for an individual section goes up each time it is passed over. 2011-02-02T19:42:41 oh btw.. the guy that had cute ants artwork didn't want use to make use of them 2011-02-02T19:42:48 he was a little annoying for some reason\ 2011-02-02T19:42:58 oh well 2011-02-02T19:43:00 zombies it is 2011-02-02T19:43:09 pickmin? 2011-02-02T19:43:13 i could get my wife to make some ant art. she'd love some exposure, probably 2011-02-02T19:43:26 this guy had it already done, i liked how it looked 2011-02-02T19:43:32 link? 2011-02-02T19:43:52 idk 2011-02-02T19:43:53 let me find it 2011-02-02T19:44:40 I'm thinking an initial placement of food should be symmetrical, but I'd like to avoid spawned food being symmetrical. 2011-02-02T19:44:59 No good reason, other than aesthetics. 2011-02-02T19:45:45 i think semi-predictable randomness could make for some interesting AI, too, though 2011-02-02T19:45:48 amstan_: btw, I really hope we don't pick ant wars. I'm only doing this because I lost hope in anything else and I'm trying to make it not suck. 2011-02-02T19:46:07 McLeopold: well.. pick something 2011-02-02T19:46:14 McLeopold: jeff has said this is what he will likely pick :/ 2011-02-02T19:46:35 amstan_: I'm not the picker, jeff is 2011-02-02T19:46:54 http://www.johnny3d.promail.ca/iak/iak.png 2011-02-02T19:46:55 mutiny! ;) 2011-02-02T19:46:59 McLeopold: come up with better ideas 2011-02-02T19:47:11 amstan_: I have 2011-02-02T19:47:13 amstan_: you mean come up with ideas that jeff will like 2011-02-02T19:47:21 jmcarthur: lol, sure 2011-02-02T19:47:30 but like! look at those ants 2011-02-02T19:47:32 i'm sad... 2011-02-02T19:47:34 http://www.johnny3d.promail.ca/iak/ 2011-02-02T19:47:46 If he would at least shoot holes in the other ideas, I would be more satisfied. 2011-02-02T19:47:54 hear hear 2011-02-02T19:48:02 there seems to be no rhyme or reason for picking ants 2011-02-02T19:48:44 amstan_: so he drew this for the contest, but then doesn't want it used? Or did he draw this for something else? 2011-02-02T19:48:55 McLeopold: somewhere else, sometime in october 2011-02-02T19:49:11 McLeopold: and i was hoping he would like us using it for ants if we do it 2011-02-02T19:49:19 but he didn't 2011-02-02T19:49:21 so.. i'm sad 2011-02-02T19:49:46 Did you tell him this is huge and international and he would get big exposure as an artist? 2011-02-02T19:49:55 he didn't seem to care 2011-02-02T19:50:05 i did mention the 4600 entries 2011-02-02T19:50:11 and google? 2011-02-02T19:50:21 I wonder if galcon sales spiked last year? 2011-02-02T19:50:28 idk.. i can't really force the guy 2011-02-02T19:51:12 jmcarthur: I'm secretly morphing ant wars into stratego... 2011-02-02T19:51:35 please! 2011-02-02T19:51:44 except the bombs will rocket ants across the map... 2011-02-02T19:51:49 we have to find a way to make a game out of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNvSgQ-fJTM 2011-02-02T19:51:50 strantego! 2011-02-02T19:52:02 is that a variant? 2011-02-02T19:52:15 gta lost me when they took planes otu 2011-02-02T19:53:31 but... but... the heavy bus mod! 2011-02-02T19:53:37 look at the awesomeness! 2011-02-02T19:53:44 this is the video that made me finally understand GTA 2011-02-02T19:53:59 jmcarthur: yep, that's pretty much it, lol 2011-02-02T19:54:09 jmcarthur: looks like a simple prisoners delima problem... 2011-02-02T19:54:12 this is like a free-for-all burnout 2011-02-02T19:54:20 or chicken 2011-02-02T19:54:41 * pgpaskar_ kersplodes 2011-02-02T19:54:43 McLeopold: Burnout has a mode where you try to create the most expensive wreck possible 2011-02-02T19:54:50 yea, I played it once. 2011-02-02T19:54:53 you only get one collision yourself 2011-02-02T19:55:13 okay, anyway, i was just trying to lighten the mood 2011-02-02T19:56:50 i don't think the ants game is beyond saving 2011-02-02T19:56:56 as long as we turn it into stratego ;) 2011-02-02T19:57:37 or give them guns 2011-02-02T19:57:53 or something equally silly 2011-02-02T19:58:00 this was better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6TVqtNZWBY&feature=related 2011-02-02T20:01:51 eight player coming up... 2011-02-02T20:03:24 eight player seems to last just as long... 2011-02-02T20:03:30 lol 2011-02-02T20:06:50 http://imgur.com/410RY 2011-02-02T20:09:33 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2011-02-02T20:10:45 jmcarthur: how about an ant throw move? If your next to friendly, you can toss them 10 spaces? Then you can start launching guys behind the lines. 2011-02-02T20:11:20 You can setup a bucket brigade network of throwing ants. 2011-02-02T20:14:04 jmcarthur: serious question: should the existence of water between 2 ants nullify the birth/death effect? 2011-02-02T20:14:36 For instance, a single line of water, like a river, where there are ants on either side. 2011-02-02T20:16:54 hmm 2011-02-02T20:17:04 i didn't realize those barriers were water 2011-02-02T20:17:15 took me a sec to realize that's what you were talking about 2011-02-02T20:17:34 i'd say that makes some sense, but what should the rule be exactly? 2011-02-02T20:17:40 I didn't either until I read the code 2011-02-02T20:17:40 and more importantly... 2011-02-02T20:17:48 does it make the game more interesting? 2011-02-02T20:18:27 If we have fog of war, with blocked vision, it would be odd for a food source to suddenly become an enemy ant. 2011-02-02T20:18:38 i'm still considering ant throws. i'm not so sure about that yet 2011-02-02T20:18:50 It makes defense harder if you can cross barriers. 2011-02-02T20:18:57 That was a joke. 2011-02-02T20:18:59 :P 2011-02-02T20:19:06 but a throw could get you across water! 2011-02-02T20:19:20 Ant's can pick up 20 times their weight... 2011-02-02T20:19:38 but can they throw? 2011-02-02T20:19:45 there is an actual type of ant which will make bridges out of themselves so other can get across 2011-02-02T20:19:51 *others 2011-02-02T20:20:04 but will it blend? 2011-02-02T20:20:36 it might be interesting if an ant could walk into water, sacrificing itself, but then it turns into a walkable tile 2011-02-02T20:20:40 http://answers.askkids.com/Life_on_Earth/can_ants_swim 2011-02-02T20:21:07 so, the water is just a shallow wadding pool? 2011-02-02T20:21:19 well, you still drown if you step in it 2011-02-02T20:21:22 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A042J0IDQK4 2011-02-02T20:21:25 but then you turn into land, essentially 2011-02-02T20:22:01 Other species of ants can form chains to bridge gaps over water 2011-02-02T20:22:07 right 2011-02-02T20:22:13 that's what i was talking about mimicking 2011-02-02T20:22:36 (except this is an actual sacrifice whereas i bet in nature it's not necessarily) 2011-02-02T20:22:45 It would be interesting to allow basic manipulation of the map. 2011-02-02T20:23:18 you could have starting islands 2011-02-02T20:23:44 I think I can code that fairly quickly, let me try... 2011-02-02T20:23:56 or you could have barriers that are relatively secured by water, but if your opponent builds up enough forces to sacrifice then that security goes away 2011-02-02T20:24:51 i'd really like to see this somehow turn into the sort of thing where you sort of set up a fortress of your own design and try to penetrate the other fortress 2011-02-02T20:25:07 like minecraft? 2011-02-02T20:25:13 this water thing could be one side of the coin. the other side could be the ability to create barriers or something 2011-02-02T20:25:31 well, minecraft isn't really a "versus" game right now 2011-02-02T20:25:40 dead ants remain and become blocking obstacles 2011-02-02T20:25:44 i don't mean quite like that anyway 2011-02-02T20:25:47 hmm 2011-02-02T20:25:54 maybe 2011-02-02T20:25:55 you can pick them up 2011-02-02T20:26:04 sounding better 2011-02-02T20:26:18 you can throw them in water for your bridge 2011-02-02T20:26:22 lol 2011-02-02T20:26:26 maybe that too 2011-02-02T20:27:13 it might be possible to turtle 2011-02-02T20:27:25 so... you can pick up a dead ant on an adjacent tile, then move around and set it on a tile adjacent to you later? 2011-02-02T20:27:30 but then, the enemy could pick up your wall and move it 2011-02-02T20:27:34 yeah 2011-02-02T20:27:39 as long as you can move *any* dead and it's okay 2011-02-02T20:27:44 *dead ant 2011-02-02T20:28:07 can you fight while carrying one? 2011-02-02T20:28:21 or spawn new ants? 2011-02-02T20:28:22 heck yeah, ants are awesome 2011-02-02T20:28:35 what happens if you die while carrying one? 2011-02-02T20:28:42 hmm... 2011-02-02T20:28:53 2 dead on the same spot merge? 2011-02-02T20:28:57 and should the enemy be able to see if you are carrying one? 2011-02-02T20:28:59 then you can get rid of dead ants 2011-02-02T20:29:51 how about, can't die or birth while carring? 2011-02-02T20:30:19 hmm 2011-02-02T20:30:24 or fight, to be fair 2011-02-02T20:30:29 yes 2011-02-02T20:30:34 i could see that 2011-02-02T20:30:50 i like that better because this prevents bodies from simply disappearing 2011-02-02T20:30:54 yeah 2011-02-02T20:31:02 it means there's some gradual accumulation, and eventually you have to deal with it 2011-02-02T20:31:04 but, should there be a way to remove bodies? 2011-02-02T20:31:14 nah, i like the map getting tighter over time 2011-02-02T20:31:38 kind of a "make your own map" kind of thing 2011-02-02T20:32:12 or... 2011-02-02T20:32:21 I do like the idea, but it may be to complicated 2011-02-02T20:32:23 if there is a large body of water you can gradually convert it to land 2011-02-02T20:32:30 if you really need to get rid of bodies 2011-02-02T20:32:32 true 2011-02-02T20:33:03 hmm... 2011-02-02T20:33:12 there's something more elegant hiding in here 2011-02-02T20:33:48 what is that? 2011-02-02T20:35:12 okay, there's holes (formerly water), regular land, and walls (formerly bodies). you can dig up ground to make a hole and place it on regular land to make a wall on in another hole to make regular land. you can pick up a wall and move it around. if you place it in a hole you make regular land. dead ants become walls. 2011-02-02T20:35:27 and you can only walk on regular land 2011-02-02T20:35:46 s/on in/or in/ 2011-02-02T20:35:48 someone already gave a link to something like that 2011-02-02T20:35:53 it had elevations 2011-02-02T20:35:57 yeah the snow thing. that was more complicated 2011-02-02T20:36:03 no, not snow 2011-02-02T20:36:04 ants 2011-02-02T20:36:09 it was in python 2011-02-02T20:36:09 oh! 2011-02-02T20:36:16 it still had more than just three levels though 2011-02-02T20:36:35 and you could climb shallow hills 2011-02-02T20:36:39 in this you simply can't climb 2011-02-02T20:36:54 yes, but I'd stick with water and dead ants 2011-02-02T20:37:00 * jmcarthur shrugs 2011-02-02T20:37:09 You can't dig 2011-02-02T20:37:16 so no creating water 2011-02-02T20:37:16 yeah, that makes some sense 2011-02-02T20:37:29 i just thought maybe this way would be overall simpler 2011-02-02T20:37:32 but maybe not 2011-02-02T20:37:38 but that would be cool to dig a trench at watch it fill up 2011-02-02T20:37:43 ha 2011-02-02T20:38:03 the picking up may need some work. 2011-02-02T20:38:08 okay, i'm game for sticking with the bodies idea 2011-02-02T20:38:17 yeah 2011-02-02T20:38:22 there are some corner cases 2011-02-02T20:38:31 what if multiple ants try to pick up the same thing? 2011-02-02T20:38:31 you must be next to a dead ant, and it takes one turn 2011-02-02T20:38:53 if they are friendly, they fail 2011-02-02T20:38:54 i guess either nothing happens or the body is destroyed? 2011-02-02T20:39:01 if they are enemies, they should already be dead 2011-02-02T20:39:08 ah 2011-02-02T20:39:11 nevermind 2011-02-02T20:39:14 wait, no 2011-02-02T20:39:20 they can have backup 2011-02-02T20:39:22 right 2011-02-02T20:39:30 it just fails all around 2011-02-02T20:39:42 mmkay 2011-02-02T20:39:45 its a tug of war, and the interested parties rest a turn 2011-02-02T20:39:52 back to sort of the original question... 2011-02-02T20:39:59 can you fight through walls and/or over water? 2011-02-02T20:40:12 if we do this change, then no 2011-02-02T20:40:22 the rules are simpler if you can 2011-02-02T20:40:44 yeah, they are 2011-02-02T20:40:55 the walls could still be movement barriers and just not combat barriers 2011-02-02T20:40:57 how about birth and death must be a distance of one, so it's not an issue 2011-02-02T20:41:07 okay 2011-02-02T20:41:15 backup is a little less useful then though 2011-02-02T20:41:19 or 1.6, so diagonals count 2011-02-02T20:41:46 that's reasonable i guess 2011-02-02T20:42:05 well, I can change that real easy to see what it looks like 2011-02-02T20:43:10 processing... 2011-02-02T20:43:32 dead ants will really hinder the HunterBot 2011-02-02T20:44:00 yeah 2011-02-02T20:44:29 Have you seen the "dot dot dot" video about Super PSTW Action RPG? 2011-02-02T20:44:46 i don't think so 2011-02-02T20:45:01 funniest thing I've seen in a long time 2011-02-02T20:45:16 about video games, at least 2011-02-02T20:46:06 distance 1.6 takes a lot longer to process, maybe because there are more ants? 2011-02-02T20:46:28 dead ants will make spawning troublesome 2011-02-02T20:48:06 wow that video was great 2011-02-02T20:48:13 reminded me of how is babby formed 2011-02-02T20:48:37 doesn't spawning just replace the food with an ant? 2011-02-02T20:48:52 how would the dead ones mix it up? 2011-02-02T20:50:09 I mean the placing of food 2011-02-02T20:50:19 ah 2011-02-02T20:51:21 i say just try to spawn the same amount of food, but if there's a body in the way then just don't spawn that piece. keep everything else the same. the tighter the map becomes, the less food there is 2011-02-02T20:52:23 i mean, i guess you could keep trying to spawn food, but then you would just have to do it more and more densely 2011-02-02T20:53:00 alternatively.... food can just replace a body 2011-02-02T20:53:12 i'm not sure i like that as much 2011-02-02T20:53:18 *** Migi32 has quit IRC (Quit: boinc) 2011-02-02T20:53:23 me neither 2011-02-02T20:54:04 that means, you can carry a bunch of dead ants over to the enemies side, and reduce his potential food production? 2011-02-02T20:54:09 yes 2011-02-02T20:54:42 and increase your own, since you're getting rid of dead ants from your side, presumably 2011-02-02T20:55:06 that's not so bad 2011-02-02T20:55:29 what happens if 2 dead ants are put on the same spot? failure? 2011-02-02T20:55:34 hmm, just thought of something 2011-02-02T20:55:52 if ants carrying bodies are invulnerable, what's to stop me from turtling with *them*? 2011-02-02T20:56:34 failure makes sense for that case (2 bodies placed on same spot) 2011-02-02T20:56:35 *** Apophis_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T20:56:48 although it has the potential to deadlock things further 2011-02-02T20:57:06 i think there needs to be a way to actually destroy bodies, and filling in water holes doesn't count 2011-02-02T20:57:43 place off the map? 2011-02-02T20:57:50 how about placing two bodies on the same spot merges them? 2011-02-02T20:57:58 yeah, I suggested that 2011-02-02T20:58:03 and that would also mean you can place a body on another body 2011-02-02T20:58:06 yeah 2011-02-02T20:58:12 that makes the no death while carrying go away 2011-02-02T20:58:18 yeah 2011-02-02T20:58:27 i think that is indeed a bit nicer sounding 2011-02-02T20:58:49 but does that mean you should also be able to fight and create new ants? 2011-02-02T20:58:51 then, a bot can keeps it's side clear for food 2011-02-02T20:59:09 yes 2011-02-02T20:59:19 I would say yes 2011-02-02T20:59:33 *** Apophis has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-02-02T20:59:40 okay 2011-02-02T20:59:44 it's simpler that way anyway 2011-02-02T20:59:47 there is no penalty for carrying around a dead ant everywhere 2011-02-02T20:59:49 we need to keep it simple 2011-02-02T20:59:57 well... 2011-02-02T21:00:13 except that if you want to move another you have to set it down first, which i think we agreed should take a turn? 2011-02-02T21:00:26 yes 2011-02-02T21:00:36 to move 2 dead ants takes 4 turns 2011-02-02T21:00:50 i think that's reasonable 2011-02-02T21:01:16 you can setup a bucket brigade that would be effecient 2011-02-02T21:01:25 yeah 2011-02-02T21:01:40 they could maintain a defense line 2011-02-02T21:01:58 assuming there is a supply of bodies to use 2011-02-02T21:02:04 yeah 2011-02-02T21:02:19 the only way to break through is to carry off the wall 2011-02-02T21:02:32 you'd kind of have to have an *offense* line 2011-02-02T21:02:52 to carry off an opponent's wall 2011-02-02T21:03:13 lines are very ant-like :) 2011-02-02T21:03:32 *** delt0r_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T21:03:42 all start with water sacrifices and see how everyone likes that 2011-02-02T21:03:45 s/offense line/supply line for your offense/ 2011-02-02T21:03:47 *I'll* 2011-02-02T21:04:13 it's okay. in the south, "i'll" is often pronounced "all" anyway :\ 2011-02-02T21:04:45 ha, run a line to an enemies wall, then start shuffling the whole thing away in a bucket brigade. 2011-02-02T21:04:55 exactly 2011-02-02T21:04:55 *** delt0r___ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2011-02-02T21:05:17 what happens when a dead ant is placed on a spot the enemy moves to? 2011-02-02T21:05:52 body disappears? i don't think it should be usable as a weapon 2011-02-02T21:05:55 btw, this distance 1.6 is going to full 1000 turns 2011-02-02T21:05:59 wow 2011-02-02T21:06:21 the enemy must carry it? 2011-02-02T21:06:29 what if the enemy already is carrying one? 2011-02-02T21:06:34 they merge 2011-02-02T21:06:46 like in other situations 2011-02-02T21:06:49 i don't know about this one 2011-02-02T21:06:57 just hand a body to an enemy? lol 2011-02-02T21:07:46 i think i would just be bikeshedding to argue against it though. i see no reason to pick one way to handle it over the other 2011-02-02T21:07:51 if there is no penalty to the enemy, who cares? 2011-02-02T21:08:07 well, there could be a penalty 2011-02-02T21:08:14 if the enemy was a part of a bucket brigade :P 2011-02-02T21:08:23 the enemy doesn't have to waste a turn to pick up an ant 2011-02-02T21:08:33 although i guess if things can just merge then it's no biggie 2011-02-02T21:08:49 in fact, no need for a bucket brigade to dismantle a big wall 2011-02-02T21:08:49 yeah, he keeps doing his moves. 2011-02-02T21:09:02 could just use a few ants and have them merge all the bodies together 2011-02-02T21:09:06 if you are carrying, and you pickup another, then they merge? 2011-02-02T21:09:19 i think that would defeat the purpose... 2011-02-02T21:09:24 you can wipe out a wall, 2011-02-02T21:09:28 it's not really a great barrier that way 2011-02-02T21:09:31 yeah, it would 2011-02-02T21:09:41 so, no merging on back 2011-02-02T21:09:43 of ant 2011-02-02T21:10:00 then what happens if you hand a body to another ant that already has one? 2011-02-02T21:10:07 actually 2011-02-02T21:10:17 no handing off of bodies? 2011-02-02T21:10:23 I think the drop should just fail, friendly or enemy 2011-02-02T21:10:28 you have to put it down on the ground, otherwise it just fails 2011-02-02T21:10:32 the ant is still carrying 2011-02-02T21:10:35 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T21:10:41 or in the water i guess 2011-02-02T21:10:44 right 2011-02-02T21:11:21 interesting situation... two ants put bodies onto water at the same time... 2011-02-02T21:11:31 merge into land 2011-02-02T21:11:31 create ground or create wall? 2011-02-02T21:11:38 ground only 2011-02-02T21:12:14 this is a lot of cases 2011-02-02T21:12:56 it's still deterministic at least, i think 2011-02-02T21:13:19 there might be a reasonable way to describe the rules in a simple way 2011-02-02T21:14:38 to dead ants to the same space merge first into one, then the normal action happens, water->ground or ground->wall 2011-02-02T21:15:05 to pick up, you must be the only ant to try 2011-02-02T21:15:14 to put down, you must place on water or ground 2011-02-02T21:15:21 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2011-02-02T21:15:26 deat ants block movement 2011-02-02T21:16:29 picking up or putting down or carrying don't prevent any normal actions from happening, birth, death, fighting 2011-02-02T21:17:14 seems reasonable 2011-02-02T21:18:20 imgur only takes 2mb files! >:( 2011-02-02T21:18:24 does a scenario with two live ants manipulating 2 dead ants such that one picks up and the other lays down to the same space on every turn make an impenetrable wall? 2011-02-02T21:18:28 the "merge, then action" rule seems arbitrary. why not just say that the action on water is to form land, the action on land is to form wall, and the action on wall is to just stay wall? 2011-02-02T21:19:00 which would mean that setting two bodies on water at once makes wall 2011-02-02T21:19:04 but the rule is simple 2011-02-02T21:19:27 sure, either way 2011-02-02T21:19:43 or more simply just have two of your ants always trying to pick up your wall 2011-02-02T21:19:44 janzert: I would think yes, pickup resolves first, then laydown 2011-02-02T21:20:03 locks the wall into place 2011-02-02T21:20:24 janzert: yes it does, but it takes 2 ants, which can't move 2011-02-02T21:20:30 a fair trade off 2011-02-02T21:20:38 i think it's not necessarily fair 2011-02-02T21:21:02 what if that's the only reasonable way to a majority of the map? 2011-02-02T21:21:04 yeah, I guess it may or may not be fine. I think a little hard to say without trying it out 2011-02-02T21:21:19 there are only 2 ways to block, water and dead ants 2011-02-02T21:21:22 amstan_: j3camero: met clifton from facebooks 2011-02-02T21:21:22 i guess that would imply map dominance already 2011-02-02T21:21:26 both can be worked through 2011-02-02T21:21:32 water can be turned into land 2011-02-02T21:21:37 dead ants can be picked up 2011-02-02T21:21:39 he said something something facebook would like to sponsor prizes for next ai contest 2011-02-02T21:21:40 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T21:21:49 oooh 2011-02-02T21:22:30 with 2 ants for a single spot, you can't have a wall 2011-02-02T21:22:45 he said something about how the legal team wasn't ok with facebook branding on the contest, since it conflicts with their own, but sponsoring prizes is cool with them 2011-02-02T21:22:48 you can't get enough ants in there to keep it going 2011-02-02T21:23:03 yeah it only works for one space 2011-02-02T21:23:08 but it does work for that one space 2011-02-02T21:23:11 which may be enough 2011-02-02T21:23:26 so is there an image sharing site that can take 3.1mb? 2011-02-02T21:23:29 if it's, say, a narrow corridor with water on the sides or something 2011-02-02T21:23:42 and you just stick a body at the end and double-tug 2011-02-02T21:23:58 but, you can always suicide a bridge 2011-02-02T21:24:03 McLeopold: not image specific, but dropbox? 2011-02-02T21:24:05 very costly 2011-02-02T21:24:14 but yes, still an option 2011-02-02T21:24:19 i say it's not *terrible* 2011-02-02T21:24:22 if you have more territory, then it works 2011-02-02T21:24:24 since it's such a rare circumstance anyway 2011-02-02T21:25:54 so distance 1.6 looks awesome, I just can't show you yet 2011-02-02T21:25:59 if you manage to get that sort of favorable situation then you probably deserve it anyway 2011-02-02T21:26:03 lol 2011-02-02T21:26:06 dropbox sign up link http://db.tt/5kfMLHH (that gives me more space too ;) ) 2011-02-02T21:26:18 but how do I share just one file? 2011-02-02T21:26:41 just put it in the public folder, then share the link to it 2011-02-02T21:26:47 http://www.mediafire.com/ requires no account, i think 2011-02-02T21:27:16 for a limited number of uploads 2011-02-02T21:30:23 http://www.mediafire.com/i/?3qz5dooa3xdmdh9 2011-02-02T21:31:00 ssalbiz: hmm? 2011-02-02T21:31:04 mediafire made that look like a crappy attari game 2011-02-02T21:32:22 hunterbot sucks for that :\ 2011-02-02T21:32:53 it's also kind of as i feared. reinforcements don't tend to help as much 2011-02-02T21:33:08 i mean, obviously hunter is using the badly, but even s 2011-02-02T21:33:12 *even so 2011-02-02T21:33:20 *using them 2011-02-02T21:33:52 yeah, a double line of live ants is unstoppable 2011-02-02T21:34:37 it doesn't matter the distance we use 2011-02-02T21:34:40 you know.. with the bodies idea, this rule about not dying unless outnumbered might not be as nice 2011-02-02T21:34:44 that thickness of line will be unstoppable 2011-02-02T21:35:02 we could do a tie dies 2011-02-02T21:35:04 more death 2011-02-02T21:35:05 yes 2011-02-02T21:35:08 i was about to suggest that 2011-02-02T21:35:15 still basically the same strategies, too 2011-02-02T21:35:22 flanking and such 2011-02-02T21:35:46 much less deadlocking though, which i think would be good 2011-02-02T21:35:58 deadlocks are the biggest risk with these ideas we're thinking up 2011-02-02T21:36:15 well, *no* deadlocking with tie dies 2011-02-02T21:36:19 i'm trying it out now 2011-02-02T21:36:29 that means 2 lone ants kill each other 2011-02-02T21:36:33 yes 2011-02-02T21:36:45 but 2 vs 1 means the 1 dies 2011-02-02T21:36:47 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T21:36:48 and the 2 live 2011-02-02T21:37:07 hopefully, unless the bot name is 'McLeopold'... 2011-02-02T21:37:52 still seems to be going longer... 2011-02-02T21:40:02 ssalbiz: cool, thanks, i'll forward 2011-02-02T21:41:35 so we might be the facebook ai challenge? 2011-02-02T21:41:38 :P 2011-02-02T21:41:58 http://imgur.com/zUabI 2011-02-02T21:42:29 it looks like deadlocks still, but that's just HunterBot 2011-02-02T21:42:40 wait, how does it deadlock at all? what's happening? 2011-02-02T21:43:01 ooxx 2011-02-02T21:43:01 ooxx 2011-02-02T21:43:10 ^^ that should deadlock 2011-02-02T21:43:14 tie? 2011-02-02T21:43:32 wait, no 2011-02-02T21:43:37 hmm... 2011-02-02T21:43:41 I need to go. 2011-02-02T21:43:45 I look at it later. 2011-02-02T21:43:58 alright 2011-02-02T21:44:52 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Quit: bhasker) 2011-02-02T21:52:45 * jmcarthur experiments himself 2011-02-02T22:40:27 *** sigh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2011-02-02T22:42:05 *** dlila has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2011-02-02T22:59:05 *** pyro- has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T23:01:48 okay, movement resolution in the ants game is currently dependent on the order of the orders 2011-02-02T23:02:12 if two ants on the same team try to move to the same position at once, one of them succeeds 2011-02-02T23:03:18 *** chris__0076 has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T23:06:30 *** chris___0076 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2011-02-02T23:29:44 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T23:31:29 *** chris__0076 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-02-02T23:31:33 *** chris___0076 has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T23:32:43 *** nann has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T23:36:10 *** Apophis_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-02-02T23:45:47 *** chris__0076 has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-02T23:48:34 *** chris___0076 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-02-02T23:59:28 *** Accoun has quit IRC ()