2011-02-11T00:04:14 I don't think I follow 2011-02-11T00:04:28 when you resolve food squares after battles 2011-02-11T00:04:31 what radius are you using? 2011-02-11T00:04:45 same as attack, but I think it should be smaller 2011-02-11T00:04:59 that's what i'm talking about, shall we add an extra parameter in everywhere for that? 2011-02-11T00:05:09 i'm wondering if 1 would work best for that 2011-02-11T00:05:15 yes 2011-02-11T00:05:21 it means you can never have a contest over a food square and you have to go right up to it 2011-02-11T00:05:30 it'd also make snakebot easier 2011-02-11T00:05:36 which is extremely important 2011-02-11T00:05:56 what should such a parameter be called? 2011-02-11T00:06:00 foodradius doesn't seem right? 2011-02-11T00:06:07 birthradius 2011-02-11T00:07:07 done 2011-02-11T00:07:10 on etherpad 2011-02-11T00:07:40 can you make everything monospace? 2011-02-11T00:07:42 all my timer stuff is in seconds, now i have to convert upon reading :P 2011-02-11T00:07:53 how would i do that? 2011-02-11T00:08:08 select all and change the font 2011-02-11T00:08:41 ? 2011-02-11T00:08:48 which font? 2011-02-11T00:08:48 to courier 2011-02-11T00:08:59 is that done? 2011-02-11T00:09:18 I don't see the change. I think my browser is just screwed up. 2011-02-11T00:10:26 yeah, it's the browser, chrome on linux 2011-02-11T00:12:44 McLeopold: 1 or 3 for birthradius do you think? 2011-02-11T00:12:53 5 2011-02-11T00:13:12 attack is 9 2011-02-11T00:13:17 or 10 2011-02-11T00:13:22 that's larger? 2011-02-11T00:13:34 view is 96 2011-02-11T00:14:45 yeah, but 4 for attack gives the 2 unit diamond 2011-02-11T00:15:20 so? 2011-02-11T00:15:35 you wont get battles with people up close 2011-02-11T00:15:42 because they wont be able to get anywhere near each other 2011-02-11T00:15:43 attack is 10 2011-02-11T00:16:05 oh, well, this is still with bad micro 2011-02-11T00:16:09 whatever 2011-02-11T00:16:21 don't make it 4, at least 5 2011-02-11T00:16:28 I don't like diamond shapes 2011-02-11T00:16:34 you're still wanting option 2 for battle aren't you? 2011-02-11T00:16:42 i'm still hoping for option 1 to prevail 2011-02-11T00:17:05 I'd rather have that, with some interesting game elements. But if we don't get other game elements, I'd go with 1 2011-02-11T00:17:07 it doesn't matter atm anyway 2011-02-11T00:17:34 yeah, I'm thinking rush to get tcp working, build the bot, then demonstrate option 2 is broken 2011-02-11T00:17:48 i think it's awesome how simple everything is with 1 yet still complex 2011-02-11T00:18:17 yes, jmcarthur and I were pleased with the elegance 2011-02-11T00:18:20 i'll put something in my makeMoves function when tcp turns up for testing 2011-02-11T00:24:26 hmm, this is starting to feel quite a bit like that snowman game 2011-02-11T00:27:11 *** chris_0076 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2011-02-11T00:28:51 McLeopold: the larger the attack and birth radius's the more expensive it becomes to check the result of moves 2011-02-11T00:30:20 I'm looping through ants, so it only matters the number of ants 2011-02-11T00:30:38 Option 1 would be faster. 2011-02-11T00:31:48 looping through ants? 2011-02-11T00:31:55 oh, and finding distances? 2011-02-11T00:37:06 maybe 2011-02-11T00:37:10 I can't remember 2011-02-11T00:37:37 nope 2011-02-11T00:37:49 I'm doing a recursive check for enemies and crossing the ants of the list 2011-02-11T00:37:59 so, kinda looping through ants 2011-02-11T00:39:40 I need to learn make files 2011-02-11T00:41:00 *** chris_0076 has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-11T00:43:16 i was checking each ants cells within range for enemies 2011-02-11T00:43:40 yeah, same here 2011-02-11T00:43:59 and i had the directions in a constant array rather than actually painting outwards 2011-02-11T00:44:30 as in the arrays needed to add info to a location to get straight there 2011-02-11T00:46:33 McLeopold: if you have viewradius v and attackradius a, you need v > 2a +2 (i think) in order for option 1 battle resolution to be always calculatable for bots 2011-02-11T00:47:58 it will also make it much harder to see what the hell happened as the attack region gets larger 2011-02-11T00:48:12 v >= 2a 2011-02-11T00:48:34 oh yeah, i was thinking if they were just outside 2011-02-11T00:48:38 but then it'd be irrelevant :P 2011-02-11T00:48:46 it might get messier with euclidean 2011-02-11T00:49:14 v >= 2a+2 , cause ants can move toward each other 2011-02-11T00:49:25 and they won't know the status until after battle 2011-02-11T00:49:50 sure, but if you are working out moves to make, you want to "evaluate" a state to see what happens 2011-02-11T00:50:11 option 1 allows bots to be sure their "evaluation" is always correct for any anything close enough to touch them 2011-02-11T00:50:12 I think that's a good parameter for vision radius 2011-02-11T00:50:22 i'm not debating vision, i like that a lot 2011-02-11T00:50:32 i don't think fight and birth should be too large though 2011-02-11T00:50:35 me neither, I'm agreeing 2011-02-11T00:50:48 no, 5 max for attack 2011-02-11T00:51:01 maybe 10 2011-02-11T00:51:08 but no larger 2011-02-11T00:51:31 and, sry, I keep using radius^2 2011-02-11T00:51:37 my ideal game would be, view = 9.6, attack = 2, birth = 1, battle resolution 1 2011-02-11T00:57:14 McLeopold: is that just saying that if a square is an ant/food square when you first see it, you wont also see it as land? 2011-02-11T00:58:17 *** Mathnerd314 has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-02-11T01:00:13 *** delt0r___ has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-11T01:01:24 *** delt0r_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-02-11T01:02:34 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * r42b030b / (ants/Makefile ants/ants.py ants/engine.py): small changes, need to fix reporting of dead ants - http://bit.ly/gea3lr 2011-02-11T01:03:07 yeah, if I report 1,1 as an ant, I will never get an "L 1 1", because I can already assume it is land. 2011-02-11T01:04:32 cya 2011-02-11T01:04:37 *** McLeopold has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2011-02-11T01:42:51 *** sigh has left #aichallenge ("Leaving") 2011-02-11T01:47:01 am i the only one who thinks it's ideal if a bot doesn't need to hold information across turns? 2011-02-11T01:47:16 particularly for beginners? which seems to be a high priority for a lot of people 2011-02-11T01:49:00 *** amstan has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-02-11T02:00:04 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-02-11T02:04:38 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-11T02:04:39 antimatroid I've stated that view in the past and still feel it's ideal 2011-02-11T02:07:38 janzert: I think mcleopold is more concerned about minimising input passed 2011-02-11T02:07:46 but surely it's quite fast anywya? 2011-02-11T02:08:23 at worst each player needs to receive the same number of lines as squares 2011-02-11T02:08:34 yeah, it was in the past and I would certainly expect it not to be much here either 2011-02-11T02:09:16 right I would just send the whole map centered on the player's start square, with all unvisible squares blocked out 2011-02-11T02:09:29 the only downside of course is it gives away the map size right away 2011-02-11T02:09:41 so I could see changing it for that reason 2011-02-11T02:09:48 but not really for anything else 2011-02-11T02:10:00 i don't think there's need to centre it, just paint outwards from players squares printing any square info that is "seeable" 2011-02-11T02:10:16 minimizing IO amount certainly doesn't seem like a priority 2011-02-11T02:10:54 not centering it could give away number of players? 2011-02-11T02:11:05 i don't think so 2011-02-11T02:11:11 you're still getting the overall dimensions 2011-02-11T02:11:22 we could just translate the maps when generated, but i don't think it helps 2011-02-11T02:13:10 yeah, I guess maybe it doesn't give away any more than the overall size 2011-02-11T02:13:25 are we giving them that anyway initially or not? 2011-02-11T02:13:29 yes 2011-02-11T02:13:39 i think you could try and work out player numbers with dimensions 2011-02-11T02:13:50 work out what "region placements" allow for the given dimensions 2011-02-11T02:14:18 ahh, then yeah just send the the map with only the correct squares revealed and be done with it 2011-02-11T02:14:23 would it really change much strategy wise if we knew the number of starting players? 2011-02-11T02:14:51 possibly, depends a lot on what the details of the final game are of course 2011-02-11T02:14:51 provided you didn't know how many are currently alive 2011-02-11T02:15:00 *** javagamer has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-02-11T02:15:55 i guess it may change players starting behaviour 2011-02-11T02:18:11 *** javagamer has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-11T02:29:15 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2011-02-11T02:34:25 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-11T02:54:05 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-02-11T02:54:25 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-11T02:59:31 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2011-02-11T03:01:27 *** smellyhippy has quit IRC (Quit: Take your stinking clause off me you damn dirty predicate!) 2011-02-11T03:03:22 *** Meatkat has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2011-02-11T03:07:56 *** Palmik has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-11T03:10:54 *** Frontier has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-02-11T03:13:28 *** Frontier has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-11T03:14:13 *** Frontier has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-11T03:16:17 *** Frontier has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-02-11T03:16:41 *** Frontier has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-11T03:18:57 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-11T03:21:11 sigh: Is Australia still existing after flood and storm? 2011-02-11T03:22:07 it didn't really affect me down here in melbourne 2011-02-11T03:22:25 there was one day where the city was flooded but I was in sydney at the time 2011-02-11T03:22:35 managed to avoid all floods :D 2011-02-11T03:23:36 weathers been great in tassie 2011-02-11T03:23:49 if anything it's been a little too cold at night this summer 2011-02-11T03:25:22 we were having heat waves last week, I'd rather cold 2011-02-11T03:27:08 and then I flew up to sydney and copped another heat wave, 42C top :( 2011-02-11T03:31:31 *** boegel has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-11T03:35:29 *** tapwater has quit IRC (Quit: tapwater) 2011-02-11T03:41:36 yeah screw sydney, it's a dirty cirty 2011-02-11T03:41:38 city* 2011-02-11T03:42:50 :P 2011-02-11T03:43:19 http://tassie.org.au/ -> look for the apology at the bottom ^^ 2011-02-11T03:43:41 I see the next revolution coming up 2011-02-11T03:44:19 oh man, an underconstruction picture 2011-02-11T03:44:32 it's like a page from the 90s 2011-02-11T03:47:25 seems my net needs resetting 2011-02-11T03:47:29 been happening a lot :\ 2011-02-11T03:50:02 *** antimatroid has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-11T03:50:18 Frontier: there are some strange people here 2011-02-11T03:50:35 i think i might a good example 2011-02-11T03:50:42 might make* 2011-02-11T03:50:45 *** aerique has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-11T03:50:59 bah, stop stealing other people 2011-02-11T03:51:05 's joke opporunitiies 2011-02-11T03:51:21 *opportunities 2011-02-11T03:51:49 *** antimatroid1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2011-02-11T03:52:07 antimatroid: it is the government shutting down the internet to stop the communication between demonstrants 2011-02-11T03:52:22 o_O 2011-02-11T03:52:58 even the usa is contemplating a big red button to shut down the internet 2011-02-11T03:53:41 Frontier: the censorship talk was enough 2011-02-11T03:54:11 australian politics is possibly more of a joke than us politics 2011-02-11T03:54:14 for your internet connection or your nerves? 2011-02-11T03:54:23 my nerves 2011-02-11T03:54:34 i try not to spend too long thinking about political stuff, it makes me rage 2011-02-11T03:58:37 when wikipedia says "in coalition since 1944" does that mean you have the same government since 67 years? 2011-02-11T04:01:45 no idea 2011-02-11T04:01:53 we've got an independent now 2011-02-11T04:01:55 he's awesome 2011-02-11T04:02:05 are you talking tassie or australia? 2011-02-11T04:03:54 Is tassie an independent country? 2011-02-11T04:04:00 no 2011-02-11T04:04:11 it's a state of australia 2011-02-11T04:04:42 But you have an independent government there with all the rights over say... military forces? 2011-02-11T04:04:49 no 2011-02-11T04:04:59 each state has a local parliament 2011-02-11T04:05:07 i don't know how it works very well 2011-02-11T04:06:21 so there is a sex party, interesting ^^. i cannot recall anything like that in German history 2011-02-11T04:07:07 they only recently popped up 2011-02-11T04:08:12 as well as the secular party, as if we hadn't abolished religion in the state busines long ago 2011-02-11T04:08:34 gay marriage still isn't allowed here etc. 2011-02-11T04:08:38 it's pretty stupid 2011-02-11T04:08:57 if people want to hold a ceremony and call it marriage, it's of nobody elses business 2011-02-11T04:09:17 Does religion have a strong influence on politics? 2011-02-11T04:09:39 not a huge one, although it has made some appearances in the last few years when i wouldn't expect 2011-02-11T04:09:59 the prime minister is an atheist, but claims to not agree with gay marriage 2011-02-11T04:10:01 Well if it is a christian ceremony I can understand that priests say no. 2011-02-11T04:10:26 yeah sure, but you basically can't do a gay marriage and have it recognised even if the church is willing 2011-02-11T04:10:33 that is quite silly 2011-02-11T04:10:58 ah ok. 2011-02-11T04:11:56 if i was to ever do something like marriage, i'd probably get a civil union or whatever (provided the girl was cool with it) just out of protest 2011-02-11T04:12:38 now i need a dictionary 2011-02-11T04:12:54 i'm also a little disappointed at the amount of racism that's still here 2011-02-11T04:13:00 i've been surprised about that a few times too 2011-02-11T04:13:27 ah you mean a 'eingetragene Lebenspartnerschaft' 2011-02-11T04:13:38 haha what? 2011-02-11T04:13:39 hmm i prefer civil union 2011-02-11T04:13:46 it is way shorter 2011-02-11T04:14:26 i think the whole thing is insance, christians didn't invent the concept of marriage, they made similar arguments about inter racial marriage etc. it's insane that it's still even an issue 2011-02-11T04:14:31 insane* 2011-02-11T04:14:35 Racism against native australians or in general? 2011-02-11T04:14:47 probably both 2011-02-11T04:14:56 in general 2011-02-11T04:15:04 there are a lot of people who have a very negative view on emigration etc. 2011-02-11T04:15:33 worst was someone i had met down here raping and killing some uni student, the guy even had a gf, wtf, but that's a very big edge case 2011-02-11T04:15:42 there are quite a few racial bashings etc. though 2011-02-11T04:16:22 i used to think it was more that anyone is going to get bashed, of course some international people will, but the last few years, especially some stuff in tasmania has led me to think people actually do actively go out looking to attack people on racial motives 2011-02-11T04:16:26 it's quite disgusting 2011-02-11T04:16:35 Well you can find it here too. Some people believe that the Turks will flood Germany and make everything islamic and take our freedoms and... you get the idea 2011-02-11T04:17:16 you knew the rapist?! Oo 2011-02-11T04:17:30 i have met him, i never chose to associate with him 2011-02-11T04:17:36 the guy wasn't someone you want to associate with 2011-02-11T04:17:56 he was one of my friends old neighbours and was generally known around the skatepark where i spent a lot of my teen years 2011-02-11T04:18:44 and i'm pretty sure the guy got like 15-25 years in jail 2011-02-11T04:18:55 the australian legal system is far too leniant on violent crimes 2011-02-11T04:19:11 hopefully he gets enough time to think about it 2011-02-11T04:19:21 depends, some people thrive in prison 2011-02-11T04:19:45 although i doubt most would actually enjoy being in there 2011-02-11T04:20:05 i don't plan to ever find out 2011-02-11T04:20:48 The EU has recently requested that we should free prisoners that have ended their time in prison and are currently in "security capture" because they are still considered a danger to society 2011-02-11T04:21:31 i quite like our governments response to taking guntanomo (no idea how to spell) prisoners that aren't charged 2011-02-11T04:21:32 They say it is agains human rights to keep people captive after they payed their dues 2011-02-11T04:21:47 despite constantly touting the importance of innocent until proven guilty, they wanted nothing to do with them 2011-02-11T04:22:10 paid their dues is a very sketchy term 2011-02-11T04:22:20 the legal system seems very arbitrary sometimes 2011-02-11T04:22:29 sorry, i didn't find any other term in the quickness 2011-02-11T04:22:46 i don't like how inconsistent punishments are to crimes 2011-02-11T04:22:54 *** smellyhippy has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-11T04:23:05 it's often easy to find examples where crime a was obviously worse than crime b, but the punishment for crime a was more leniant 2011-02-11T04:23:07 they marked their time 2011-02-11T04:23:19 i think it should be one of the goals to have such a consistency 2011-02-11T04:23:22 it's a hard problem... you have to treat cases individually, but it leads to inconsistancies 2011-02-11T04:23:42 sigh: i know it's not an easy problem, but i think it could be handled better than it currently is 2011-02-11T04:24:02 well they have precedence cases 2011-02-11T04:24:03 sure, I agree 2011-02-11T04:24:13 i also don't understand why i can't partial vote in elections 2011-02-11T04:24:15 it's retarded 2011-02-11T04:24:18 but just saying that the current system sucks is not very productive 2011-02-11T04:24:32 partial vote? 2011-02-11T04:25:00 preference only some of the candidates, if my vote gets far enough to run out, it becomes invalid 2011-02-11T04:25:44 Oh how I wish to de-vote some people sometimes ^^ 2011-02-11T04:25:50 yeah, fair enough... although that won't affect the result in a meaningful way, you are still making a statement 2011-02-11T04:25:59 Frontier: why? 2011-02-11T04:26:02 I'm like "I vote for anything, but not THIS coalition" 2011-02-11T04:26:21 oh, i thought you weren't agreeing with what i said 2011-02-11T04:26:38 sigh: wilkie won in tassie because of fall through votes 2011-02-11T04:26:39 IRC downvotes :P 2011-02-11T04:26:43 No I was just laughing because it will never happen 2011-02-11T04:27:15 there were people in one electorate complaining because they didn't realise they were voting for an indiginous person that one 2011-02-11T04:27:18 won* 2011-02-11T04:27:33 lol what a fraud 2011-02-11T04:27:33 antimatroid: my point is that by not letting your votes run through, one of those candidates will still make office 2011-02-11T04:27:48 sigh: doesn't matter, i don't want my vote to go to them 2011-02-11T04:28:08 i was going to put an invalid vote in because i didn't care who won out of kevin or abbott 2011-02-11T04:28:10 antimatroid: I know, which is why I said it's more of a statement than anything that actually matters 2011-02-11T04:28:19 but i ended up passing the votes to labour, just because i can't stand abott 2011-02-11T04:28:28 what are you talking about. I don't think I have heard of such a voting system? 2011-02-11T04:28:35 sigh: try saying that to people about not voting :P 2011-02-11T04:28:54 an individual vote doesn't count for anything, people witnessing and acting upon that act or knowledge does 2011-02-11T04:28:57 Frontier: never heard of preferential voting 2011-02-11T04:28:58 ? 2011-02-11T04:29:13 Frontier: we do at least have a semi sane voting system 2011-02-11T04:29:20 uh maybe... it is a bit difficult in Englisch for me 2011-02-11T04:29:29 and semi compulsory voting 2011-02-11T04:29:42 if you never enrol, they never bother you, but if you enrol and don't vote, you get fined 2011-02-11T04:29:46 i find that amusingly stupid 2011-02-11T04:29:54 I'll look it up in Wikipedia 2011-02-11T04:30:34 antimatroid: they bothered me until I enrolled 2011-02-11T04:30:39 So you put yourself at risk for enrolling 2011-02-11T04:30:49 sigh: pretty sure they give up after a while 2011-02-11T04:30:54 a lot of my friends never enroled 2011-02-11T04:31:02 i see 2011-02-11T04:31:31 anyway, I'm happy to vote 2011-02-11T04:31:43 Oh cool, so you order the candidates by preference, rather than just making a cross next to a person 2011-02-11T04:31:43 Frontier: the christians are also bitching atm because of new ethics classes in primary schools 2011-02-11T04:31:47 sigh: same 2011-02-11T04:31:53 Frontier: right 2011-02-11T04:32:07 and if a candidate gets knocked out, your vote goes on to the next person 2011-02-11T04:32:15 so you don't have to worry much about wasting your vote 2011-02-11T04:32:32 but you have to preference everyone (or let the parties do it for you, most people do that) 2011-02-11T04:32:39 Hey MY religion teacher back then told me God and his son had an argument and they founded two seperate churches, catholic and protestant 2011-02-11T04:32:44 my argument is i should be able to preference some of them, then have my vote stop counting 2011-02-11T04:33:25 Frontier: more like people got pissed off with the pope for letting people buy their way into heaven :P 2011-02-11T04:34:33 i hear pope and think child abuse hehe 2011-02-11T04:35:00 See, now you have prejudices, too :o) 2011-02-11T04:35:22 i sit on the fence with religion, weak agnostic :P 2011-02-11T04:35:49 although that's more with a notion of god being something that created what we call the universe 2011-02-11T04:36:12 Sometimes religion works like opium for the people I think 2011-02-11T04:36:15 "god" is horrendously ill-defined 2011-02-11T04:36:42 sigh: i personally just take it to be that which created what we call the universe 2011-02-11T04:37:21 if no such god exists, then we came from nothing, before time or even the concept of nothing existed. if we were created, then what created the creator? same issue, ad infinitum 2011-02-11T04:37:29 that basically summarises my thoughts on religion 2011-02-11T04:37:32 I heard some religious muslim complain about how God in the western world is merely some guy up in the clouds with no relation to people's lives. He surely preferred to have a connection of politics and religion 2011-02-11T04:38:08 even then,"god" carries too many connotations... even if your description it is a *single*, *sentient* being who created the universe with a *purpose* 2011-02-11T04:38:16 antimatroid: And at some point you just stop caring. 2011-02-11T04:38:23 with probably many other implicit assumptions 2011-02-11T04:38:25 sigh: not necessarily 2011-02-11T04:38:56 i also hold such an agnostic view about whether something independent exists external to our universe, and whether it could ever be "known" that such a place exists etc. 2011-02-11T04:39:23 i simply argue that i have never been presented a sufficient argument to make me decide either way 2011-02-11T04:39:27 antimatroid: maybe not, but the way you describe it and also the way you label it strongly implies it, imo 2011-02-11T04:39:43 which is why I say that "god" is horrendously ill-defined 2011-02-11T04:39:57 people use it as a place holder for wildly different things 2011-02-11T04:40:00 as far as i'm concerned, i don't know i wasn't created 10 seconds ago with all my memories as part of a simulation to see how we'd act 2011-02-11T04:40:09 sure 2011-02-11T04:40:38 god is a term like ai. what is ai. did ai create us? 2011-02-11T04:40:59 and I don't know whether you are human, or just a very advanced talking giraffe, but I'm hardly on the fence about that :P 2011-02-11T04:41:01 "did ai create us?" that's a new one, i like it 2011-02-11T04:41:04 Do we flee into techocracy because we need religion? 2011-02-11T04:41:07 *typing 2011-02-11T04:41:38 i personally think religions were a way people exploited peoples need for answers in order to control them 2011-02-11T04:41:51 that is a naive view, I think 2011-02-11T04:42:00 and people wanting answers 2011-02-11T04:42:08 that is more reasonable 2011-02-11T04:42:40 given the prevelence of religion, even in small tribal communities... there is more to it than simple exploitation 2011-02-11T04:42:43 sounds like the opium view. back then when thunder and storm couldnt be explained it served as an explanation 2011-02-11T04:42:47 i do think quite a few religious people throughout human history were in it for control though 2011-02-11T04:43:11 sure, but they were using a tool which was already there 2011-02-11T04:43:32 I don't think that you could do something like that, unless people already had some predisposition 2011-02-11T04:44:36 hmm, i don't know, i expect even when such things were coming to exist the people molding what they became may not have always had pure intent 2011-02-11T04:44:54 Now I think of shamans smoking crazy things telling the tribe about the gods ^^ 2011-02-11T04:45:03 i do think most religious people are generally good people with pure intent though 2011-02-11T04:45:09 I think that the simplest explanation is that that people are pattern recognition machines, and more specifically intelligent-agent detectors... we anthropomorphise everything 2011-02-11T04:45:44 sigh... you need some fresh air :p 2011-02-11T04:46:36 what does antropomorphise mean ? 2011-02-11T04:47:34 *** antimatroid has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-02-11T04:47:45 applying it to nature is inevitable 2011-02-11T04:47:47 Wikipedia to the rescue 2011-02-11T04:48:01 *** antimatroid has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-11T04:48:15 Frontier: see, you shouldn't get me onto the topic of politics :P 2011-02-11T04:48:44 sεε, I ςαη dσ α lστ ωιτh γσμr mιηd ! 2011-02-11T04:50:01 Frontier: simplest definition is: "To attribute human characteristics to something that is non-human." 2011-02-11T04:50:09 Now that I know what it means - antropomorphism is one of the reasons why I don't believe in God. 2011-02-11T04:50:46 I don't quite understand what you mean? 2011-02-11T04:51:38 Well people usually imagine God as some person that is their better self. 2011-02-11T04:51:51 oh yes, sure 2011-02-11T04:52:16 aren't they the devil and angel on my shoulders? 2011-02-11T04:52:51 yeah... that's annoying to argue against it... they project their opinion onto God, who they claim is infalliable and thus render their opinions immune from critisism 2011-02-11T04:53:08 i'm right because God said so? 2011-02-11T04:53:14 sure 2011-02-11T04:53:25 i should try that in an exam 2011-02-11T04:53:49 :) 2011-02-11T04:53:59 Try to confuse christians with the conciousness and intelligence of apes 2011-02-11T04:54:20 but we are apes 2011-02-11T04:54:21 i love it when someone tries to argue animals don't have feelings or can't feel empathy 2011-02-11T04:54:27 *** Naktibalda has joined #aichallenge 2011-02-11T04:54:29 we are animals 2011-02-11T04:54:39 or when people don't understand what descendent means 2011-02-11T04:55:41 don't understand what descendent means? 2011-02-11T04:55:44 Even corvids have more social intelligence than any ant bot I program could ever have 2011-02-11T04:56:19 Our brain and the corvids brain must be descendents of the same ancestor 2011-02-11T04:56:33 sigh: it is said that we have a common ancestor with the apes of today 2011-02-11T04:56:43 not that we directly evolved from the apes you see around today 2011-02-11T04:56:47 So we can deduce that reptiles did have a form of social intelligence! 2011-02-11T04:56:58 antimatroid: we *are* apes of today 2011-02-11T04:56:59 i don't know exactly how they classify it, i think the common ancestor was technically an ape 2011-02-11T04:57:26 sigh: and the same argument for all of evolution 2011-02-11T04:57:28 Frontier: things can evolve more than once 2011-02-11T04:57:45 Frontier; haven't you played pokemon? sheez 2011-02-11T04:57:52 :P 2011-02-11T04:58:12 for example, eyes are so damn useful, that they have evolved independantly a few times 2011-02-11T04:58:29 oh, another one is people thinking something evolves something because it would be useful 2011-02-11T04:58:52 it makes me smirk when someone says an animal has this trait so it can do that 2011-02-11T04:59:07 no, the animal has that trait because it was a mutation that favoured survival 2011-02-11T04:59:13 sure :) 2011-02-11T05:00:00 we need a multiplayer evolution game 2011-02-11T05:00:01 sigh: I know the difference 2011-02-11T05:01:28 antimatroid: that is the main confusion that people have with intelligence, they see it as so obviously useful, they wonder why human levels of intelligence haven't evolved before 2011-02-11T05:01:28 oh man, n-player game tree's are more complicated than 2 player 2011-02-11T05:01:40 antimatroid: yes 2011-02-11T05:02:03 oh, i remember how i did it 2011-02-11T05:02:11 did what? 2011-02-11T05:02:12 i've done this before, it was messy, but works 2011-02-11T05:02:19 backward induction on an n-player tree 2011-02-11T05:02:38 I haven't done >2 player games 2011-02-11T05:02:54 me neither 2011-02-11T05:03:23 either way, even with perfect information you no longer have an optimal plan 2011-02-11T05:03:23 it's not really any different, pick a player at a node, make moves, at terminal nodes have a payoff for each player, then for a players turn, pick the node that gives the best payoff, given players below are playing "optimally" 2011-02-11T05:03:42 antimatroid cheats. he uses knowledge that is inside his brain and noone else has access to 2011-02-11T05:04:02 well, there is the possibility of having an optimal plan if you are so far ahead of everyone else that you can assume that they all act as a single entity and you can still beat them 2011-02-11T05:04:22 sigh: i don't think you can just treat them as another entity 2011-02-11T05:04:30 that assumes they are all cooperating against you 2011-02-11T05:04:38 often you want to cooperate with others 2011-02-11T05:04:50 antimatroid: I know, it was a pessimistic prediction 2011-02-11T05:05:06 my intentions are to use a tree with anything in a specified fighting range, then heuristic everything else 2011-02-11T05:05:10 in order to say that you can guarentee a win 2011-02-11T05:05:11 it results in your bot doing nothing agains this overwhelming force ^^ 2011-02-11T05:05:35 tree to branchy 2011-02-11T05:05:56 it will be another heuristic mash 2011-02-11T05:06:04 i have no idea how to work out your set of possible moves 2011-02-11T05:06:28