2011-02-22T01:25:57  <amstan> well.. this is interesting... http://developers.facebook.com/docs/reference/api/
2011-02-22T01:26:01  <amstan> I'm the main example.. lol
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2011-02-22T06:02:43  <antimatroid> Frontier: is it possible for "forward" and equivalently "right arrow" to animate the one move it shows?
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2011-02-22T06:08:26  <antimatroid> McLeopold: you have player numbers starting from 0?
2011-02-22T06:08:32  <antimatroid> i thought you wanted to keep that starting at 1?
2011-02-22T06:11:39  <Frontier> actually i like them starting at 0 for indexing arrays. animating forward and backward is possible, but i use to keep the keys pressed so it works more like a fast forward feature. i dont know how well that would work with animated steps
2011-02-22T06:12:42  <antimatroid> so do i, which is why i remember him saying, no 1 :P
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2011-02-22T06:57:48  <CIA-14> aichallenge: Marco Leise epsilon * r491ecdd / ants/visualizer/visualiser.js : Added more checks to the parser, initial map data is now scanned for ant positions - http://bit.ly/dVS272
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2011-02-22T08:17:52  <antimatroid1> my input has been changed again
2011-02-22T08:18:03  <antimatroid1> hopefully that's the last time :)
2011-02-22T08:23:45  <Frontier> amazing: http://jupiter909.com/mark/jsrt.html
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2011-02-22T08:25:50  <Frontier> antimatroid1: What input has changed Oo ?
2011-02-22T08:27:35  <antimatroid1> Frontier: i hadn't touched my bot for a while
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2011-02-22T08:38:12  <Frontier> oh i used this super slow "result.match('^#') == '#'" instead of "result.charAt(0) == '#'" in an inner loop
2011-02-22T08:38:39  <antimatroid1> :p
2011-02-22T08:38:46  <antimatroid1> c++ <3
2011-02-22T08:42:06  <Frontier> some JavaScript implementations actually support result[0] == '#' if you refer to that :p
2011-02-22T08:42:56  <Frontier> Oo : http://www.addyosmani.com/resources/googlebox/
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2011-02-22T09:37:27  <CIA-14> aichallenge: Marco Leise epsilon * re6b99cd / (ants/visualizer/index.html ants/visualizer/visualiser.js): URL parameter game_id=xy loads replays/xy.replay now. The list of all replays is not fetched in this case. - http://bit.ly/iiqofo
2011-02-22T09:38:09  <antimatroid1> i have vision working with my bot now with this input
2011-02-22T09:38:30  <antimatroid1> i'm basically taking the current input and recreating the char map i would have otherwise received, then processing information from that
2011-02-22T09:38:46  <Frontier> that's good news.
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2011-02-22T09:41:56  <Frontier> I wonder what the replay files will look next :-)
2011-02-22T09:42:32  <antimatroid1> i wonder when jeff will return :P
2011-02-22T09:43:14  <Frontier> probably when he only needs to press the big red button
2011-02-22T09:43:32  <antimatroid1> we can't do that without deciding the battle option
2011-02-22T09:46:50  <Frontier> I could push my changes for "D" now, but I'll talk with amstan or janzert first. The package would have to be installed first anyway.
2011-02-22T09:47:53  <Frontier> Do you remember that you couldn't use a directory structure for a PlanetWars bot in C/C++?
2011-02-22T09:51:39  <Frontier> Actually someone hacked in a patch for Java to do that, because there it is actually discouraged and worth a warning if you use the 'default' package. I found this 'JavaCompiler' code works with D, too and probably C++ and the other languages. But that has never been tested.
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2011-02-22T09:54:10  <antimatroid1> hmm yeah fair enough
2011-02-22T09:54:32  <antimatroid1> i moved to a folder structure at one point which obviously flopped when i tried uploading it
2011-02-22T09:54:52  <antimatroid1> i've got 19 files already for this ants game
2011-02-22T09:55:09  <antimatroid1> including .h and .cc when i've decided to have both
2011-02-22T09:56:34  <Frontier> 19 files is a lot. i didn't have as many for my final PlanetWars bot including a logger class in a separate file
2011-02-22T09:58:05  <Frontier> Compiling files in subdirectories should be on the nice-to-have list
2011-02-22T10:00:44  <antimatroid1> oh god
2011-02-22T10:00:45  <antimatroid1> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuntz_algebra
2011-02-22T10:02:09  <Frontier> ... cuntz ... satisfying ... aha .. soso ... well, nice to know
2011-02-22T10:02:44  <Frontier> ... plays role
2011-02-22T10:04:17  <Frontier> antimatroid1: You are on Windows, right?
2011-02-22T10:06:23  <Frontier> Oh his name is actually German, so you have to spell it more like Coonts: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joachim_Cuntz
2011-02-22T10:08:25  <antimatroid1> there is a function in matlab called cum trapz
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2011-02-22T10:10:12  <Frontier> like 'come traps' ?
2011-02-22T10:11:08  <Frontier> ok... i found the right word in the urban dictionary ^
2011-02-22T10:13:17  <antimatroid1> i am on windows too, xp <3
2011-02-22T10:13:30  <antimatroid1> :P
2011-02-22T10:13:44  <antimatroid1> it's actually for cumulative trapezoidal rule
2011-02-22T10:13:51  <antimatroid1> but i swear the programmer was trolling
2011-02-22T10:15:17  <Frontier> no doubt -.-
2011-02-22T10:30:00  <antimatroid1> nz got hit pretty hard today
2011-02-22T10:30:06  <antimatroid1> well, yesterday
2011-02-22T10:30:29  <antimatroid1> i've never even been so (un)lucky as to get even a flood where i actually live
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2011-02-22T12:05:33  <jmcarthur> antimatroid1: 19?! holy compilation units, batman!
2011-02-22T12:06:44  <McLeopold> antimatroid: if you don't like player starting from '0', I can switch it to 'a'.
2011-02-22T12:07:27  <jmcarthur> what's wrong with numbers?
2011-02-22T12:25:01  <Frontier> McLeopold: no please, I we all like the 0. It was invented by the Mayans you know? and it is an aknoledgement to them if we use it.
2011-02-22T12:30:33  <Frontier> And what do you think about the changes I proposed? I'd really like to find the bug that creates these zombie ants on my screen.
2011-02-22T12:31:36  * Frontier thinks about the poor c++ folks downloading a starter package which contains 19 files :o)
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2011-02-22T13:06:57  <jmcarthur> my haskell starter depends on some libraries for now, but i doubt it would be a big deal. can just say the package requires the haskell platform and `cabal install foo bar baz'. the platform requirement is to be expected, and the cabal command comes with it
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2011-02-22T13:17:11  <McLeopold> Frontier: what changes?
2011-02-22T13:18:19  <Frontier> the ones in my email. basically the version header, player count, player id on death commands and omitting the full state info on each turn
2011-02-22T13:19:51  <Frontier> you also had the idea of using a 'L' command to 'kill' food I think
2011-02-22T13:35:32  <McLeopold> yes on version and players, it's in the spec
2011-02-22T13:36:09  <McLeopold> player id is going to be on 'd' lines, which also means there may be more than one 'd' line for a location if ants step on each other
2011-02-22T13:36:36  <McLeopold> what do you mean by full state info?  repeating food locations?
2011-02-22T13:38:12  <Frontier> Repeating food and ant information, yes
2011-02-22T13:38:30  <jmcarthur> ah shoot, i wasn't considering that there could be more than one dead ant on a square at a time
2011-02-22T13:38:42  <jmcarthur> no biggie i guess
2011-02-22T13:38:57  <Frontier> As you once said end of turn x == begin of turn x+1
2011-02-22T13:39:16  <Frontier> So I have the state already and the information is just making the files bigger
2011-02-22T13:39:36  <McLeopold> Maybe for the replays.  I look at it later.
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2011-02-22T13:40:33  <Frontier> That was the 'my boss is coming around the corner' button ^^
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2011-02-22T14:24:21  <Frontier> Now that we have more than 2 players, I was looking for a way to display all players in a way it won't break the layout if the number isn't fixed. How do you like something like this?: http://marco-leise.homedns.org/antgui/work/score_prototype.png
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2011-02-22T14:36:15  <Blkt> good evening everyone
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2011-02-22T16:40:46  <antimatroid1> Frontier: the starter package doesn't contain 19 files
2011-02-22T16:40:55  <antimatroid1> what i intend to be "my starter" for myself
2011-02-22T16:46:17  <Frontier> I'm watching a B-Movie called Cyborg 2 in the background. And now I know where Valve got inspiration for the special effects on the G-Man's face in the Half-Life 2 intro.
2011-02-22T16:47:30  <Frontier> In the first promotion videos the game looked like 50% 'Final Fantasy', in the end only the heavy rifles from the movie stayed in
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2011-02-22T17:55:46  <jmcarthur> antimatroid1: aw you're not trying it in haskell? :P
2011-02-22T18:00:06  <McLeopold> jmcarthur: do you have a random bot in haskell yet?
2011-02-22T18:00:37  <jmcarthur> nah i haven't been messing with it. got caught up with some unrelated graphics code
2011-02-22T18:01:17  <jmcarthur> i basically just have a parser for the input right now, and that's it
2011-02-22T18:01:36  <jmcarthur> shouldn't take much work to get a random bot going though
2011-02-22T18:03:45  <antimatroid1> jmcarthur: i will play around with it, but i suspect i'll have more luck writing my actual bot in c++ still
2011-02-22T18:14:28  <McLeopold> I'm going for the javascript starter pack next...
2011-02-22T18:15:42  <antimatroid1> ewwwwww :P
2011-02-22T18:15:54  <antimatroid1> what's the starter strategy in the end?
2011-02-22T18:16:28  <antimatroid1> are we sticking with "move if you can, first n, then e, s, w"?
2011-02-22T18:17:22  <Frontier> McLeopold: À propos JavaScript, when can you tell me what you want to do with the full state info?
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2011-02-22T18:24:24  <Frontier> I know you want to keep the replay format compatible with the bot input, but you also said you want to keep the file size small.
2011-02-22T18:24:53  <antimatroid1> why not allow d row col for food squares?
2011-02-22T18:25:14  <antimatroid1> then just give food info for spawns, and dead/birth info will cover the rest
2011-02-22T18:25:37  <antimatroid1> you could even pass that to the bots
2011-02-22T18:25:44  <antimatroid1> keeping it slightly more compatible
2011-02-22T18:25:47  <antimatroid1> anyway, uni time
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2011-02-22T18:28:40  <McLeopold> Frontier: I don't think a decision will really impact the visualizer much.
2011-02-22T18:29:54  <McLeopold> we still have to deal with fog of war for bots, so they do need full state
2011-02-22T18:29:59  <McLeopold> the replay doesn't
2011-02-22T18:30:45  <Frontier> well it looks as if i draw ants or food that isn't in the state info any longer. and when i tried to find the spot in the file i thought how much easier debugging would be if only the actual changes were sent.
2011-02-22T18:35:47  <Frontier> McLeopold: Ok, if there is no decision I need to be able to work with both varieties. I am pretty sure the bug occurs on food that should be 'killed' but there is no command for that, correct?
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2011-02-22T18:42:04  <McLeopold> Frontier: that fact that there is no longer a food lines, or that there is an ant line, means the food is gone.  The parser should be making those assumptions, then updating the data set used to run the replays.
2011-02-22T18:42:48  <McLeopold> Take a look at how I parsed and created a changes data struct.
2011-02-22T18:43:02  <McLeopold> It's less sophisticated than your code, but it works.
2011-02-22T18:43:35  <Frontier> So you have made a decision.
2011-02-22T18:45:24  <McLeopold> Well, not for the replay file
2011-02-22T18:45:34  <McLeopold> But the bot info will have repeated food.
2011-02-22T18:45:48  <McLeopold> So, a dead line will erase food too.
2011-02-22T18:46:01  <McLeopold> If it ever happens
2011-02-22T18:46:19  <McLeopold> I suppose there wouldn't be an owner token in that case.
2011-02-22T18:47:13  <Frontier> You are funny. Once I write the code so that a non-existing food line kills food, you cannot just omit the food lines later and replace the 'missing' lines with 'erase food' commands, as all the food will disapear each turn. That's a decision to be made here
2011-02-22T18:48:20  <Frontier> a dead line with no owner is perfect for erasing food
2011-02-22T18:49:47  <McLeopold> good point
2011-02-22T18:50:28  <Frontier> Well the amount of work to switch between the two concepts is not that much, so either it will become a version 2 or if there aren't many replays yet we can just change the specs
2011-02-22T18:50:40  <McLeopold> there aren't
2011-02-22T18:50:44  <McLeopold> Let's switch it now.
2011-02-22T18:50:57  <McLeopold> I can make the engine create the separate bot input files from a replay file.
2011-02-22T18:51:12  <McLeopold> So, 'D' line, no owner.
2011-02-22T18:51:21  <McLeopold> No extra food state info.
2011-02-22T18:51:33  <Frontier> and extra ant info?
2011-02-22T18:51:36  <McLeopold> I'm thinking I do want all ant info.
2011-02-22T18:51:46  <Frontier> ok, your choice
2011-02-22T18:51:49  <McLeopold> They should move enough it won't matter for file size.
2011-02-22T18:52:07  <McLeopold> 'killing' ants that move will be more data.
2011-02-22T18:52:09  <Frontier> well, it doubles the file size ^^
2011-02-22T18:52:25  <McLeopold> It depends on if ants move alot or not.
2011-02-22T18:52:35  <McLeopold> *a lot*
2011-02-22T18:53:35  <Frontier> Anyway that code is pretty much fool-proof in the visualizer. So wethere the additional ant lines are there or not doesn't matter at this point.
2011-02-22T18:53:46  <McLeopold> Ok
2011-02-22T18:54:01  <McLeopold> Was the food state really that much?
2011-02-22T18:55:00  <Frontier> No I think the ant state is the most data at the moment
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2011-02-22T18:55:44  <Frontier> Well 'grep "a" | wc -l' can tell
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2011-02-22T18:59:05  <Frontier> 31359 out of 56460 lines are "a " lines (~56%). 4761 food lines make as many nessecary ant lines, so it becomes... 47%
2011-02-22T18:59:57  <Frontier> I forgot that the food lines themselves are duplicate, so I guess 'it doubles the file size' is correct here ^^
2011-02-22T19:04:45  <Frontier> There are 417 'real food spawns' in the file (including the initial player positions in my case).
2011-02-22T19:05:01  <McLeopold> It will reduce the number of lines, regardless of bot behavior.
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2011-02-22T19:08:24  <McLeopold> Frontier:the last contest created response pages that wrote the game state into the page.  I'd prefer that the javascript request the game state separately.
2011-02-22T19:08:34  <McLeopold> I was using jquery's .get() function for this.
2011-02-22T19:09:30  <Frontier> McLeopold: I was using an XMLRequest. Janzert would like to store and server the replays from one of those amazon servers
2011-02-22T19:10:02  <Frontier> I'm not quite into that, but the idea is to just load a file from the disk statically
2011-02-22T19:10:50  <McLeopold> Yep, same thing.
2011-02-22T19:11:04  <McLeopold> .get() wraps the xmlrequest
2011-02-22T19:11:56  <Frontier> So what exactly do you mean by requesting the game state separately?
2011-02-22T19:12:31  <Frontier> just what we are doing now I guess? :p
2011-02-22T19:13:04  <Frontier> look at my last commit. there i use the game_id URL parameter to load the replay file
2011-02-22T19:15:17  <McLeopold> Yes, exactly that.
2011-02-22T19:16:17  <Frontier> Ok, to sum it up for me I'm going to accept 'd' lines with or without a player id and use that to erase food as well if no player id is given
2011-02-22T19:17:30  <Frontier> And duplicate food lines on the same location are an error from now on. That's like design by contract :)
2011-02-22T19:19:07  <Frontier> McLeopold: Tell me when you have a new replay file for me with those changes and a player count in the 'header'.
2011-02-22T19:19:40  <Frontier> Anyway, I'll go to bed soon
2011-02-22T19:20:34  <McLeopold> okay, sometime around 9:00am your time
2011-02-22T19:27:09  <Frontier> do write out a d line for each ant that dies in a collision, i.e. 4 lines if four ants overlap?
2011-02-22T19:28:06  <McLeopold> yep
2011-02-22T19:28:11  <McLeopold> 1 with each owner
2011-02-22T19:28:22  <McLeopold> if you collide with yourself, you get 2 lines
2011-02-22T19:28:55  <McLeopold> or, howevery many lines are needed to represent the magnitude of your stupidity.
2011-02-22T19:29:24  <Frontier> i fear 4 is the max :(
2011-02-22T19:33:01  <Frontier> McLeopold: I quickly hacked something together that might work already: http://marco-leise.homedns.org/antgui/work/
2011-02-22T19:33:01  <Frontier> If you happen to have a replay file before tomorrow morning (my time), you can paste it there and load it up.
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2011-02-22T21:33:20  <antimatroid1> bleh, i hate stupid dress codes
2011-02-22T21:33:38  <antimatroid1> there should be no issues with walking into a bar/whatever with shorts and thongs
2011-02-22T21:37:33  <Mathnerd314> this comment inspired by...
2011-02-22T21:38:46  <antimatroid1> it's societies day, but to go out afterwards i can't wear shorts and thongs
2011-02-22T21:38:54  <antimatroid1> tasty sweet discrimination
2011-02-22T21:40:27  <Mathnerd314> societies day?
2011-02-22T21:41:19  <antimatroid1> sign up to societies (give them money in exchange for alcohol)
2011-02-22T21:41:48  <Mathnerd314> ah.
2011-02-22T21:41:56  <antimatroid1> we have a sane drinking age here, so people aren't practically finishing uni by the time they're "allowed" to drink
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2011-02-22T22:52:54  <sigh> antimatroid1: you had to exchange money for alcohol? don't they have enough places around campus just handing it out for free?
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