2011-03-02T00:00:30 then you'll need to replace the 50 on line 228 with min(50, len(total_ranking)) 2011-03-02T00:00:35 okay, now my maps list is empty :) 2011-03-02T00:00:59 err, min(50, len(total_ranking)-1) actually 2011-03-02T00:01:16 or is it -2 :P 2011-03-02T00:01:51 you guys working on https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge/issues#issue/7 ? 2011-03-02T00:01:55 yeah, min(50, len(total_ranking) - 2) 2011-03-02T00:02:18 I think we're just working on getting McLeopold a working setup 2011-03-02T00:02:48 website & db? or the cronjobs too? 2011-03-02T00:03:11 well, the end to end running of games 2011-03-02T00:03:31 no idea if he's sticking it in cronjobs eventually or just running the stuff manually 2011-03-02T00:03:35 woot, I got a match 2011-03-02T00:03:41 yay :) 2011-03-02T00:03:53 I'm playing so I understand everything. 2011-03-02T00:04:12 so, is the dispatch time used as a locking mechanism? 2011-03-02T00:04:45 ups, there's a problem with this 2011-03-02T00:04:53 more or less 2011-03-02T00:05:23 it will redispatch a game if it doesn't get turned in after a certain amount of time 2011-03-02T00:05:33 janzert: i'm just wondering about this: https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge/commit/234f0a6f3466f7355b4d119c499d46656e3c1d85 2011-03-02T00:05:34 on the assumption that the worker died 2011-03-02T00:05:41 janzert: what's the stuff at line 187 2011-03-02T00:05:44 I also had to put in a fake leaderboard number 2011-03-02T00:07:10 *** _flag <_flag!~flag@69-165-173-172.dsl.teksavvy.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal) 2011-03-02T00:07:33 is there an easy way to see the commits to that file before and after? 2011-03-02T00:07:44 janzert: yes 2011-03-02T00:07:55 Oh I see 2011-03-02T00:07:59 janzert: https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge/commits/234f0a6f3466f7355b4d119c499d46656e3c1d85/planet_wars/www/profile.php 2011-03-02T00:08:33 for the last few hours of the finals we didn't display rank updates 2011-03-02T00:09:02 at first I just hid the rank in the users profile, this was a change to show the frozen rank instead of outright hiding it 2011-03-02T00:09:55 the leaderboards were actually still being generated in the background but we just displayed that particular one instead of the most recent one 2011-03-02T00:10:26 yeah, ok 2011-03-02T00:10:50 if you look at the previous commit you'll see that was when that line was commented out 2011-03-02T00:11:09 where is a list of submission status codes? 2011-03-02T00:11:22 one of the php files 2011-03-02T00:11:22 *** JackyAlcine has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-03-02T00:11:42 I think submission.php? (if that is actually a real file) 2011-03-02T00:12:17 yep, comment at the top of submission.php 2011-03-02T00:13:30 so, I've got status 70, error while compiling 2011-03-02T00:13:30 but it would be good if it was changed so all errors were strictly larger than all in progress codes 2011-03-02T00:14:06 having error 30 less than success 40 was an added complexity in several spots 2011-03-02T00:15:39 70 would have been set by compile_daemon.py 2011-03-02T00:16:00 you'd think my matchup wouldn't have been created then... 2011-03-02T00:16:28 does compile_daemon log anywhere? 2011-03-02T00:16:44 yep, it should be in compile.log 2011-03-02T00:17:17 which would be where? 2011-03-02T00:17:30 the directory you ran it from I believe 2011-03-02T00:17:50 unable to locate submission directory 2011-03-02T00:18:36 *** amriedle has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal) 2011-03-02T00:19:12 that's from line 134, if it can't change directory to the submissions directory 2011-03-02T00:19:24 well, actually if it doesn't exist 2011-03-02T00:19:58 aichallenge: Alexandru Stan epsilon * r53f5016 / website/profile.php : reverted 234f0a6f3466f7355b4d - http://bit.ly/eLMAR1 2011-03-02T00:19:58 aichallenge: Alexandru Stan epsilon * r56e6cc8 / (website/profile.php website/rankings_widget.php): reverted 2a54d293acc553a89499 - http://bit.ly/ftHlIF 2011-03-02T00:19:59 aichallenge: Alexandru Stan epsilon * r7e9a11c / website/profile.php : Revert "Disable next game estimate in player profiles". This reverts commit 72bbf63df4e82a062820ea57aa6d414c39063066. - http://bit.ly/eARchY 2011-03-02T00:20:00 aichallenge: Alexandru Stan epsilon * r1814194 / (10 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'epsilon' of github.com:aichallenge/aichallenge into epsilon - http://bit.ly/h75OHp 2011-03-02T00:20:06 there we go, now i think the website is actually workable.. 2011-03-02T00:20:19 *** JackyAlcine has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T00:20:37 os .path.join on line 129 might be better 2011-03-02T00:20:38 i defroze the leaderboards 2011-03-02T00:20:59 otherwise make sure your server_info["submissions_path"] has the trailing / 2011-03-02T00:24:21 yikes, talk much :P 2011-03-02T00:25:47 janzert: you got it, that was my problem 2011-03-02T00:26:08 plus a missing directory 2011-03-02T00:27:17 I don't understand why the submission was marked as latest in the database for the pairing script to pick up though 2011-03-02T00:28:16 I hacked it 2011-03-02T00:28:33 ahh :P 2011-03-02T00:31:44 okay, now we need to add unzip to the server install list 2011-03-02T00:43:41 and python-simplejson 2011-03-02T00:44:54 janzert: if my worker is setup, I just need to run tournament_manager.sh? 2011-03-02T00:45:39 for testing that should be fine yeah 2011-03-02T00:45:45 amstan: it looks like worker needed compile_anything? 2011-03-02T00:45:58 err, tournament_manager.py 2011-03-02T00:46:05 why not sh? 2011-03-02T00:46:20 oh... 2011-03-02T00:46:22 ahh, I guess tournament_manager.sh is fine as well 2011-03-02T00:46:29 that's why it took 45 seconds... 2011-03-02T00:46:30 but that should really be deleted 2011-03-02T00:46:35 I missed that in the cleanup 2011-03-02T00:47:25 should compile_anything only be in the worker, or both? 2011-03-02T00:47:39 just in the manager right now 2011-03-02T00:47:48 the worker errors out 2011-03-02T00:47:53 so it does need it 2011-03-02T00:47:54 oh shoot 2011-03-02T00:47:57 that's right it does 2011-03-02T00:48:01 McLeopold: can we not let people keep their old ranking on a resubmit, not even for their first pairing? 2011-03-02T00:48:03 so both? 2011-03-02T00:48:08 yes 2011-03-02T00:48:22 i think that worked badly last time, particularly for people who submitted a lot (aesvis and bix0r i think) 2011-03-02T00:48:32 antimatroid: yes, that's what will happen 2011-03-02T00:48:49 above it was said they might get paired near their old ranking? 2011-03-02T00:48:51 we will fix the leaderboard display, not the matching logic 2011-03-02T00:49:45 antimatroid: but remember, TrueSkill is very different from bayeselo. 2011-03-02T00:50:42 crap, now I need apikeys 2011-03-02T00:50:44 it still meant people near the top didn't really play bottom ranked bots until the final tournament 2011-03-02T00:50:49 where there were a few surprise 2011-03-02T00:51:03 oh, I see 2011-03-02T00:51:27 they had some bad losses against simple bots they weren't prepared for? 2011-03-02T00:51:28 i think it'd be better to make people climb back up every time they resubmit 2011-03-02T00:51:32 yeah 2011-03-02T00:51:44 while that is there own fault, i think it could be avoided 2011-03-02T00:51:54 you still won't get a match against the low guys if you beat the middle 2011-03-02T00:52:11 yeah that's fine, bix0r was resubmitting and just staying in the top 30 or so 2011-03-02T00:52:34 he was on tcp alot, he should have see something 2011-03-02T00:52:47 who was he on tcp? 2011-03-02T00:52:56 bix0r 2011-03-02T00:53:05 i don't remember seeing that :\ 2011-03-02T00:53:12 Icould be wrong... 2011-03-02T00:53:23 so could i :) 2011-03-02T00:53:24 *** me0w has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T00:53:56 me0w: i wish i had your username :( 2011-03-02T00:54:00 janzert: what should api_base_url be? 2011-03-02T00:54:01 anyone know if the go programming language has real release bundles we can download instead of pulling from their mercurial repository? 2011-03-02T00:54:21 pretty sure the url to the main server 2011-03-02T00:54:45 i.e. for the real thing http://ai-contest.com/ 2011-03-02T00:55:23 basically where it should find the api_*.php pages at 2011-03-02T01:00:16 ok 2011-03-02T01:02:07 janzert: ensure_submission_is_local is failing on me 2011-03-02T01:02:53 i'm with janzert, i found self playing an awesome performance measure in pw 2011-03-02T01:03:00 a terrible******* 2011-03-02T01:03:40 McLeopold: remind me where that's found, then tell me what the error is :) 2011-03-02T01:04:02 I found it 2011-03-02T01:04:07 line 65 2011-03-02T01:04:13 no such file or directory 2011-03-02T01:04:16 permissions? 2011-03-02T01:04:24 do I need to run it from somewhere? 2011-03-02T01:04:36 i'm with jmcarthur about the tron graphs too, we need those back, and leaderboards for countries/organizations 2011-03-02T01:05:00 antimatroid: what about the terrible thing? I didn't quite follow 2011-03-02T01:05:05 it expects the submissions directory to be in the parent of the worker directory and it needs write permission in that directory 2011-03-02T01:05:18 testing against your own bots was a terrible performance measure 2011-03-02T01:05:28 and needs to be run from the worker directory 2011-03-02T01:05:52 janzert: okay, I try and fix that... 2011-03-02T01:06:00 or you could change the dir="" to the server_info["..."] 2011-03-02T01:06:06 should just pull from server_info 2011-03-02T01:06:25 yep, it's just another spot that the path was hard coded before 2011-03-02T01:07:32 so is there a way to get git to download just the worker directory? 2011-03-02T01:08:39 line 86, an os.chdir to backend? 2011-03-02T01:09:06 janzert: I think the answer is no, I looked it up once 2011-03-02T01:09:50 oh, that should chdir back to the original directory 2011-03-02T01:10:05 which before was always ../../backend 2011-03-02T01:10:09 http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-read-tree.html#_sparse_checkout 2011-03-02T01:10:47 a submodule might be more appropriate? 2011-03-02T01:10:53 thanks 2011-03-02T01:11:22 actually I'm working on replacing the svn checkout of the worker code for the worker setup script 2011-03-02T01:11:58 seems like I'll need to do something a little different 2011-03-02T01:13:28 hmmm, if we did graphs, would the be your position over time or your relative level compared to hunter bot? 2011-03-02T01:13:58 antimatroid: I suggest 3 numbers: rank, skill, hunterbot index 2011-03-02T01:14:00 it would be nice to smooth it over relative to hunter bot (like average every day then interpret the linear line 2011-03-02T01:14:01 percentile over time 2011-03-02T01:14:33 smoothing would be to try and remove the jumps at resubmit time 2011-03-02T01:14:43 different people will want different numbers, so we will give what they want 2011-03-02T01:14:53 there's no use trying to jam all info into 1 number 2011-03-02T01:14:55 percentile over time would really point out danielVF's point 2011-03-02T01:15:19 actually, maybe not 2011-03-02T01:15:24 aichallenge: Marco Leise epsilon * r7c018c1 / (5 files in 4 dirs): 2011-03-02T01:15:24 aichallenge: - playback controls 2011-03-02T01:15:24 aichallenge: - cpu usage set to 50% 2011-03-02T01:15:24 aichallenge: - Internet Explorer 8 hack - http://bit.ly/eGMBh3 2011-03-02T01:15:24 no, that's fine 2011-03-02T01:15:34 his was for absolute positions 2011-03-02T01:15:45 also, the graph over time would have different lines for different submissions 2011-03-02T01:16:01 McLeopold: sure, or you could smooth it :P 2011-03-02T01:16:17 contestbot: seen amriedle 2011-03-02T01:16:17 amstan: amriedle was last seen in #aichallenge 3 weeks, 3 days, 2 hours, 40 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: why would you use an iphone ... 2011-03-02T01:16:19 well make it a button 2011-03-02T01:16:35 you guys should contact that guy, ask him how he made the original one 2011-03-02T01:16:49 I need to remember to say something stupid just before I leave IRC from now on... 2011-03-02T01:17:10 * antimatroid just doesn't leave 2011-03-02T01:17:25 McLeopold: yeah, you should get a server+ssh+screen+irssi going 2011-03-02T01:17:26 contestbot: seen antimatroid 2011-03-02T01:17:26 McLeopold: antimatroid was last seen in #aichallenge 16 seconds ago: * antimatroid just doesn't leave 2011-03-02T01:17:36 lol 2011-03-02T01:17:59 irssi? 2011-03-02T01:18:13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irssi 2011-03-02T01:19:01 but who am i kidding, i do the same as McLeopold 2011-03-02T01:19:19 my favorite one of those: 2011-03-02T01:19:21 "mmorrow was last seen on #ghc 1 year, 43 days, 3 hours, 21 minutes and 32 seconds ago, saying: * mmorrow is rtfm'ing" 2011-03-02T01:19:43 it's a long manual 2011-03-02T01:20:57 lol 2011-03-02T01:20:58 man, i just flipped my code on its head. made a major structural change, cleaned up type errors all over the place, and now it just works... 2011-03-02T01:21:14 which always kind of worries me a little bit 2011-03-02T01:21:23 DanielVF! 2011-03-02T01:21:31 Greets! 2011-03-02T01:21:54 so, you gonna help out with the launch? 2011-03-02T01:22:14 No, too busy. 2011-03-02T01:22:34 too bad 2011-03-02T01:22:36 I'm just going to be on the sidelines and make comments about the way the rest of you should be doing things. :P 2011-03-02T01:23:01 hey, that's what I've been doing 2011-03-02T01:23:06 haha 2011-03-02T01:23:09 guess I can share space on the bench here 2011-03-02T01:23:25 janzert: i don't remember buying a bench 2011-03-02T01:23:28 so, this chdir-ing in the tournament manager makes me nervous 2011-03-02T01:23:34 I am just on the edge of getting sucked into writing code though. 2011-03-02T01:23:44 a starter bot? 2011-03-02T01:23:48 in what way? 2011-03-02T01:24:03 star!ter!bot! star!ter!bot! 2011-03-02T01:24:23 it's certainly not secure, but we are compiling submissions on the main server as the contest user too so... 2011-03-02T01:25:03 Ptrace works for everything but java right? 2011-03-02T01:25:04 that's something I hope can be fixed before the contest starts, move all compilation to the workers and make it sandboxed 2011-03-02T01:25:35 janzert: i don't think I need to chdir back to worker anymore? 2011-03-02T01:25:44 if I'm using server_info? 2011-03-02T01:25:47 Can't we just use ptrace sandboxing for non-java, and use java's built in security for java apps? 2011-03-02T01:26:01 * Frontier wonders if there is any language in the world that can instruct the compiler to execute sql statements or delete files 2011-03-02T01:26:15 I think it would be best, so you're executing in a known directory 2011-03-02T01:26:23 DanielVF: it's good being able to ping you and janzert :) 2011-03-02T01:26:33 Frontier: i think haskell and cl do this 2011-03-02T01:26:46 jmcarthur: ^ 2011-03-02T01:26:49 and if you somehow write a file it isn't written in some poor submissions directory 2011-03-02T01:27:11 like if the code throws a temper? 2011-03-02T01:27:13 DanielVF: idk, maybe we can 2011-03-02T01:27:27 just save the pwd directory before the first chdir and then chdir back to it afterwards 2011-03-02T01:27:29 DanielVF: jeff's pretty confident of the current sandbox though 2011-03-02T01:28:38 i.e. save os.getcwd() before and then os.chdir back to it 2011-03-02T01:29:02 Frontier: i actually demoed that near the beginning of the planet wars contest 2011-03-02T01:29:41 Frontier: had it create a new file in the directory with all the other bots 2011-03-02T01:29:48 crap, now maps is hard coded... 2011-03-02T01:29:51 was fixable in that particular case 2011-03-02T01:29:58 but i think there are other ways around it 2011-03-02T01:29:59 McLeopold: ? 2011-03-02T01:30:13 :) yes I suspect you'll keep running into hardcoded paths for a while yet 2011-03-02T01:30:15 antimaroid: the map dir in tournament_manager.py 2011-03-02T01:31:19 amstan: Ah. I didn't know there was a new one. 2011-03-02T01:31:31 will have to go see 2011-03-02T01:31:44 DanielVF: it's just chmodding and doing some other fun stuff 2011-03-02T01:31:56 ah. 2011-03-02T01:32:26 contestbot: later tell j3camero please update https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge/wiki/Sandboxing with our current sandbox 2011-03-02T01:32:26 amstan: I come to serve. 2011-03-02T01:33:20 current sandbox could/should certainly be improved 2011-03-02T01:34:06 janzert: can you record some of the issues? 2011-03-02T01:34:26 am i correct in assuming that ants owned by oneself are given as owned by 0? 2011-03-02T01:34:37 *** Palmik has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T01:35:18 pyro-: yes 2011-03-02T01:35:18 from the specification page "a row col owner # live ant square 2011-03-02T01:35:23 antimatroid: ty 2011-03-02T01:35:26 and the first enemy you see will be 1 for the rest of the game, and so on 2011-03-02T01:35:48 *** sigh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2011-03-02T01:37:33 Frontier: i get script error. source line 0 in chrome: http://home.hypertriangle.com/~alex/aichallenge/ants/www/visualizer/offline.html 2011-03-02T01:37:51 amstan: the biggest first thing is that it leaves stuff in the jail user home directory from previous bot runs (any .dot files/directories), but overall it works on a blacklist principle of trying to block all the bad stuff instead of a whitelist of things the bot is allowed to access/do 2011-03-02T01:40:24 janzert: add_maps_to_database looks like a silly script 2011-03-02T01:41:25 did we delete the planetwars mapgen? 2011-03-02T01:41:54 it's in the manager 2011-03-02T01:42:09 McLeopold: maybe, it should be deleted though 2011-03-02T01:42:15 not yet 2011-03-02T01:42:25 it should be pulled into a planetwars folder 2011-03-02T01:42:34 also the manager add_maps_to_database.py is a little better 2011-03-02T01:42:51 I would assume we can delete the one in worker 2011-03-02T01:42:58 I'm not sure why the worker one didn't get updated 2011-03-02T01:43:09 well, you'll need one on the worker 2011-03-02T01:43:25 or do you 2011-03-02T01:43:29 why? does a worker have it's own database? 2011-03-02T01:43:33 yes 2011-03-02T01:43:39 O_o 2011-03-02T01:43:47 O_o 2011-03-02T01:43:54 what the hell for? 2011-03-02T01:43:59 it definitely uses the database to track what jail_users are in use 2011-03-02T01:44:10 I'm not sure if it uses it to look up maps or not 2011-03-02T01:44:15 I thought that was all api.php stuff? 2011-03-02T01:44:53 Frontier: when a player gets a positive score and an enemy has 0, thir colour completely disappears on the score line 2011-03-02T01:45:05 so it doesn't need the maps added to the database on the worker 2011-03-02T01:45:19 that would explain why the script is outdated there too 2011-03-02T01:45:39 I don't see sql code in tournement manager 2011-03-02T01:45:42 antimatroid: what is bad about that? :) 2011-03-02T01:45:52 it's in user_sadbox.py 2011-03-02T01:45:53 you can no longer see their score of 0 2011-03-02T01:46:05 and the right one (yellow) seems to be broken in my chrome 2011-03-02T01:46:06 amstan: What is the error? I have 5 browser windows open and cannot reproduce it 2011-03-02T01:46:17 it's not showing any score and takes half after red gets a point 2011-03-02T01:46:41 janzert: how about an api_get_jail_user.php? 2011-03-02T01:46:48 you can't 2011-03-02T01:46:53 it's worker specific 2011-03-02T01:47:02 same happens with blues number of ants actually 2011-03-02T01:47:02 We should nix all that choas 2011-03-02T01:47:13 it's locking the jail user on that worker 2011-03-02T01:47:15 antimatroid: Ok, I should drop the bar ^^ - for the scores and just display them somewhere else 2011-03-02T01:47:16 okay, so, how about a pickle file? 2011-03-02T01:47:22 and just assign each tournament manager four jail users on startup 2011-03-02T01:47:25 Frontier: first thing when i load the page: http://home.hypertriangle.com/~alex/error.png 2011-03-02T01:47:43 Frontier: maybe put the scores next to the names at hte top? 2011-03-02T01:48:02 I don't think pickles are guaranteed to lock correctly if written to concurrently 2011-03-02T01:48:04 that went badly with pw when it went onto two lines 2011-03-02T01:48:14 if you just need simple locking, a database is overkill 2011-03-02T01:48:21 I would think it would actually just corrupt it 2011-03-02T01:48:25 my lines wont go on two lines, they will scroll 2011-03-02T01:48:30 yeah 2011-03-02T01:48:31 Frontier: and after.. i click load text below, then i see a very short game happen, then i click rewind.. nothing happens 2011-03-02T01:48:45 You don't even need locking if you just give a tm the users to use on startup 2011-03-02T01:48:50 but, at least it isn't really doing much other than jail user management 2011-03-02T01:49:15 DanielVF: would that be a performance issue, creating users each time? 2011-03-02T01:49:31 No, you don't create them over and over 2011-03-02T01:49:37 don't create them each time, just remember which ones you've handed out 2011-03-02T01:49:38 just use them over and over 2011-03-02T01:49:46 amstan, I can call the visualizer from your server. what is your chrome version? 2011-03-02T01:49:53 so long as you only have one process running tm's 2011-03-02T01:49:59 Frontier: http://img218.imageshack.us/i/viz.png/ 2011-03-02T01:50:08 Frontier: cromium 11.0.677.0 (75483) Ubuntu 10.10 2011-03-02T01:50:09 last tournament we had two tm's running games on each server 2011-03-02T01:50:11 my "right most" bars don't display properly in chrome 2011-03-02T01:50:30 just give user1,user2,user3,and user4 to the first one 2011-03-02T01:50:30 for 575 seconds? 2011-03-02T01:50:43 and user5...etcs to the second one 2011-03-02T01:50:51 no need for locking or anything 2011-03-02T01:50:53 Frontier: just a note, http://ai-contest.com/visualizer.php?game_id=9559558 is really slow for me lately 2011-03-02T01:51:07 * DanielVF heading to sleep again - new kid finished eating. 2011-03-02T01:52:47 amstan: Chromium 11 ?? Why does mine say 9? 2011-03-02T01:53:14 Ah probably because 11 is unstable :p 2011-03-02T01:54:10 apparently i have chromium-daily ppa 2011-03-02T01:54:17 updating.. 2011-03-02T01:54:26 downdate plz :) 2011-03-02T01:54:39 that would be harder, i think 2011-03-02T01:54:45 I'm sure with a stable release it will work 2011-03-02T01:55:04 hold on, i haven't updated in a week or so, it might work now 2011-03-02T01:55:04 11 is hard masked in Gentoo 2011-03-02T01:55:41 yay! old visualizer is fast again 2011-03-02T01:55:57 sweet! a gentoo fan 2011-03-02T01:56:30 janzert/amstan: so is the sandbox stuff in the worker dir the current stuff? 2011-03-02T01:56:32 Frontier: still the same error on load of your script, but now everything seems to work 2011-03-02T01:56:44 McLeopold: yes 2011-03-02T01:56:45 McLeopold: yes, current as of pw 2011-03-02T01:57:05 I thought jeff had a newer sadbox, than pw 2011-03-02T01:57:40 hmm, I remember he was playing with it at one time but I never saw a result 2011-03-02T01:58:14 McLeopold, janzert: he was playing with VMs, but they're too slow for our use 2011-03-02T01:58:42 heh, especially if we're going to stay on ec2 2011-03-02T01:58:54 a vm on top of a vm 2011-03-02T02:00:59 amstan: You could remove the last lines in visualizer.js where it sets up the error handler and check again. Also look at the JavaScript error console. Any hint would help. Where is line 0 anyway? 2011-03-02T02:01:20 janzert: the map name comes through the api_get_matchup.php, so no map database entries on worker 2011-03-02T02:01:29 just the files 2011-03-02T02:01:39 And we can get rid of sql use on workers 2011-03-02T02:01:43 right, I thought I said I had found that 2011-03-02T02:01:49 I missed it 2011-03-02T02:02:09 amstan is spamming us with beta browser issues 2011-03-02T02:02:13 :) 2011-03-02T02:02:28 Frontier: can you remind me where i can find that? 2011-03-02T02:02:38 Ctrl+Shift+J 2011-03-02T02:02:57 Frontier: that opens the downloads window.. 2011-03-02T02:03:00 the file is in ants/www/visualizer/js/visualizer.js 2011-03-02T02:03:21 they changed the hotkeys? -.- 2011-03-02T02:04:05 menu->tools->developer console? 2011-03-02T02:04:07 Frontier: anyway.. the last 3 lines seem to be the problem 2011-03-02T02:04:18 Frontier: commenting them makes the error dissapear 2011-03-02T02:04:39 not really, they merely display an error that would have disapeared in the console 2011-03-02T02:04:52 if the implementation has no bugs 2011-03-02T02:05:44 But if there are no side effects, I'm fine with it, too... damn beta versions 2011-03-02T02:06:52 Frontier: ok.. i give up, i think dev console is broken.. 2011-03-02T02:07:24 Frontier: so... idk why i'm running such a version, it was probably me in a hurry trying to get a ppa link for chromium when i installed 2011-03-02T02:09:14 * Frontier hopes that IE 9 gets out of this state before the contest begins. excanvas is a crutch. 2011-03-02T02:09:52 antimatroid can you explain to me from where comes rows−abs(a.row−b.row) when calculating distance 2011-03-02T02:10:33 tournament manager fails if there are no matchups... 2011-03-02T02:11:00 pyro-: it's because the edges of the grid are wrapped 2011-03-02T02:11:43 McLeopold: in the full setup that was fine because it would be restarted after 5 seconds 2011-03-02T02:11:56 when computing it in C++ will you translate this formula directly or you know a faster method? 2011-03-02T02:12:02 you will notice getLocation is a bit rank too, depending on how the language deals with -x%n, you need to translate it too 2011-03-02T02:12:19 i.e. it was run from tournament_manager_runner.sh 2011-03-02T02:12:31 pyro-: what do you mean? 2011-03-02T02:12:38 janzert: maybe it should just wait a little and try again 2011-03-02T02:12:55 that would be fine too 2011-03-02T02:13:11 tjat's effectively what it did 2011-03-02T02:13:13 i don't actually have any ideas but from looking at how complectaed it is i wonder if theres a faster method of computing the same result 2011-03-02T02:13:20 you could calculate abs(a.row-b.row) first, but it was more lines 2011-03-02T02:13:24 than making calls to abs and min and stuff 2011-03-02T02:13:41 you need min once and abs once, i do abs twice 2011-03-02T02:13:46 you do need to calculate 2 values and compare 2011-03-02T02:13:59 okay. ty 2011-03-02T02:14:18 np 2011-03-02T02:15:29 you could calc the distance, and if it was > half, then recalc? 2011-03-02T02:15:47 a bit messy 2011-03-02T02:15:55 yeah, but could be faster 2011-03-02T02:16:43 i'm going to try storing distances to just outside the field of view from each square later, but i have no idea if it'll be feasible 2011-03-02T02:16:58 and then just use the startup time to generate them 2011-03-02T02:18:56 janzert: I actually got a game to play on my server now 2011-03-02T02:19:11 but, I can't look at it. "replay can't be parsed" 2011-03-02T02:19:14 *** Palmik_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T02:19:25 yay, you're getting close 2011-03-02T02:19:30 yeah 2011-03-02T02:19:45 I'm going to push various changes I made tonight 2011-03-02T02:19:54 mostly pushing vars to server_info 2011-03-02T02:20:08 I may break crap 2011-03-02T02:21:45 *** Palmik has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-03-02T02:21:46 aichallenge: Marco Leise epsilon * r591048c / ants/www/visualizer/js/visualizer.js : removed onerror handler, corrected score display - http://bit.ly/gsDtjl 2011-03-02T02:22:40 McLeopold: Would you be so kind to send the replay to the guy who waits for instead of complaining? :o) 2011-03-02T02:23:18 ? 2011-03-02T02:23:21 you need something? 2011-03-02T02:23:23 oh wait.. it is an old replay , right? 2011-03-02T02:24:09 McLeopold: If I had a good replay file I could check some things: the parser and the performance 2011-03-02T02:24:31 I actually haven't written the stuff to not send food each turn. 2011-03-02T02:24:45 Ok, I'll wait for the changes. 2011-03-02T02:24:48 ok 2011-03-02T02:25:09 Put an issue in github for me. I may forget all the little changes we need. 2011-03-02T02:26:39 janzert: so, did you only use tournament_manager_runner.sh? 2011-03-02T02:31:31 no, start_worker.sh is what is run at worker boot up 2011-03-02T02:31:49 it runs two tournament_manager_runners 2011-03-02T02:31:50 so, tournament_*_runner can be deleted? 2011-03-02T02:31:59 nope 2011-03-02T02:32:01 ok 2011-03-02T02:32:11 it's a three stage process :} 2011-03-02T02:32:34 start_worker -> tournament_manager_runner -> tournament_manager 2011-03-02T02:32:50 *** me0w has quit IRC (Quit: Quitte) 2011-03-02T02:33:50 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * rcab6ff2 / (7 files in 2 dirs): Removed some hard coded paths and added values to server_info files. - http://bit.ly/eQ8utR 2011-03-02T02:33:50 multi-user is going to be a headache to code for... 2011-03-02T02:33:51 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * r8bb5529 / (20 files in 9 dirs): Merge branch 'epsilon' of https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge into epsilon - http://bit.ly/h2JttT 2011-03-02T02:33:59 lots of changes to tournament manager 2011-03-02T02:34:48 yeah, also maybe keep in mind that the match queue should be turned into a job queue and have compilation jobs added to it 2011-03-02T02:34:55 crap, can we use some exports instead of hard coded shell script paths? 2011-03-02T02:35:26 I'm not touching that change with a ten foot pole. 2011-03-02T02:35:58 but it should be easier than the multi-user change you're already doing :) 2011-03-02T02:36:15 and will be even easier if it's kept in mind while you're doing it 2011-03-02T02:36:21 actually, part of the matching data could be a flag that says "not compiled yet"? 2011-03-02T02:36:42 or do you want a compile verified outside of a match? 2011-03-02T02:36:56 yeah, I think they should be separate 2011-03-02T02:37:22 also prioritized so they are handed out ahead of matches 2011-03-02T02:37:23 so, a generic, "get_work" function 2011-03-02T02:37:29 yes 2011-03-02T02:37:49 does the compiled stuff need to be sent back to the main server then? 2011-03-02T02:38:03 no, just a report of success or error 2011-03-02T02:38:17 so, when a worker needs the compiled file? 2011-03-02T02:38:47 everything should just be compiled on the worker that needs it 2011-03-02T02:39:06 so each worker needs to compile the same submission for itself? 2011-03-02T02:39:08 handing around the compiled version doesn't really save much in the long run 2011-03-02T02:39:16 yes 2011-03-02T02:39:53 that might suck if different workers have different hardware 2011-03-02T02:39:58 after a worker has been up for an hour or so it had pretty much all the submissions local anyway and just had the new ones to add as they came in 2011-03-02T02:40:05 you'd have bots that run on some, but not others, maybe 2011-03-02T02:40:15 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T02:40:28 yeah, but that isn't any different if you compile everything locally or not 2011-03-02T02:40:33 ture 2011-03-02T02:40:43 all workers need to match 2011-03-02T02:42:09 okay, time for bed, thx for the help 2011-03-02T02:42:32 yeah, about time for me to go as well 2011-03-02T02:42:46 I've got about half the worker build script working again :/ 2011-03-02T02:53:16 *** Meatkat has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-03-02T02:59:09 *** Meatkat has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T03:29:36 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T03:45:56 *** Frontier has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2011-03-02T03:47:45 *** mega1 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T03:48:00 *** Frontier has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T03:58:10 *** aerique has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T04:18:56 *** boegel has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T04:19:52 hmmmm 2011-03-02T04:19:53 http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/4400/symmetric.png 2011-03-02T04:20:21 both of those games are symmertic, but only one of them has the payoff matrices as the transpose of each other 2011-03-02T04:33:47 game idea: tron on a graph, but edges are markes as visited, not nodes 2011-03-02T04:44:53 *** amstan has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-03-02T04:59:25 *** Naktibalda has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T05:02:20 *** Naktibalda has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-03-02T05:03:22 *** antimatroid1 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T05:05:40 *** Naktibalda has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T05:05:56 *** antimatroid has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2011-03-02T05:53:36 *** Migi32 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T06:43:15 *** delt0r has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T07:21:57 *** JackyAlcine has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-03-02T07:23:21 from the spec it isn't quite clear to me when the map is sent to a bot 2011-03-02T07:24:19 what do you mean? 2011-03-02T07:25:09 have you looked at the sample input? 2011-03-02T07:27:14 aerique: https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge/tree/epsilon/ants/bots/cpp my bot is there too if you want an example 2011-03-02T07:27:26 antimatroid1: yes, if you check https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge/wiki/Ants-Game-Specification there's a chapter "Maps" and an example map. is that never sent to a bot? just the sample input? 2011-03-02T07:27:43 aerique: a bot never receives a char map 2011-03-02T07:27:55 antimatroid1: alright, that's clear 2011-03-02T07:28:00 only information each turn about squares one of their live ants can currently see 2011-03-02T07:28:06 thanks :) 2011-03-02T07:28:18 and you only get water information once, so don't wipe that 2011-03-02T07:28:31 you never get land information then everything else repeats 2011-03-02T07:28:51 except dead ants just show up once if visible when they die, just treat those as land in the starter pack 2011-03-02T07:30:15 right, i got it now 2011-03-02T07:35:21 *** Migi32 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-03-02T07:36:35 *** JackyAlcine has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T07:47:38 *** Migi32 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T08:21:07 *** sigh has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-03-02T08:25:39 *** emgallar has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T08:37:52 *** Mathnerd314 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2011-03-02T08:45:12 anyone stumbled upon the geese video on reddit yet? 2011-03-02T08:45:20 i've been waiting for hours for them to finally submit it 2011-03-02T08:45:37 *** delt0r_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T08:47:01 *** delt0r has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2011-03-02T08:59:38 *** JackyAlcine has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-03-02T08:59:47 *** aerique has quit IRC (Quit: ...) 2011-03-02T09:05:32 *** JackyAlcine has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T09:33:22 *** helo has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T09:53:45 *** helo has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-03-02T10:13:14 *** Accoun has quit IRC () 2011-03-02T10:19:58 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T10:26:49 *** mceier has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T10:33:27 anyone familiar with scala? 2011-03-02T10:36:42 i'm familiar with a few of its features, but i'm very inexperienced 2011-03-02T10:36:43 *** Kingpin13 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T10:37:08 mostly I'm wondering if a scala user would consider 2.7.7 ancient :) 2011-03-02T10:37:16 I assume they probably would 2011-03-02T10:38:55 oh i have no idea 2011-03-02T10:39:10 have we nailed down what version of ubuntu we're using, btw? 2011-03-02T10:40:20 it seems everyone is using 10.10 right now at least 2011-03-02T10:41:46 alright 2011-03-02T10:43:25 sweet, looks like i'll be able to finally use a version of ghc released within the last two years 2011-03-02T10:43:46 ghc is a fast moving project 2011-03-02T10:43:48 what's the package name? 2011-03-02T10:44:00 I'm working on the worker setup script right now 2011-03-02T10:44:09 i think it's just ghc. if there is a haskell-platform package that would be better 2011-03-02T10:44:13 currently it's using ghc6 2011-03-02T10:44:18 i'll just check 2011-03-02T10:44:57 I see ghc6 and haskell-utils that look haskell related 2011-03-02T10:45:03 janzert: https://launchpad.net/~justinbogner/+archive/haskell-platform 2011-03-02T10:45:47 janzert: eventually there will be an additional step, since the haskell starter package i'm making will rely on a library i'm making, but the library isn't on hackage yet 2011-03-02T10:46:18 I assume that version is only in the ppa not the main repository? 2011-03-02T10:46:22 oh, hmm. lucid isn't 10.10 2011-03-02T10:46:30 i was mixing ubuntus up 2011-03-02T10:46:42 maverick right? 2011-03-02T10:46:47 yeah i guess 2011-03-02T10:46:55 i don't know if there is a ppa for maverick 2011-03-02T10:47:09 that ppa is for the haskell platform, which most haskell users are accustomed to having 2011-03-02T10:47:18 it has the most frequently used libraries and stuff 2011-03-02T10:47:32 hmm, yeah looks like it only has a lucid version though 2011-03-02T10:48:06 ah, haskell-platform is in maverick's universe repo 2011-03-02T10:48:26 great 2011-03-02T10:52:39 great, it's ghc 6.12.1 2011-03-02T10:52:50 kind of a buggy version. surprised they haven't made it 6.12.3 2011-03-02T10:52:53 oh well 2011-03-02T10:52:59 better than 6.6 or 6.8 2011-03-02T11:20:04 *** Mathnerd314 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T11:34:48 *** boegel has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2011-03-02T11:38:04 *** chris___0076 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T11:39:56 *** Kingpin13 is now known as Kingpin13|shop 2011-03-02T11:40:40 *** chris__0076 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-03-02T11:44:24 janzert: support for python3 would be nice 2011-03-02T11:44:47 janzert: but then we need something besides filename extension to detect languages 2011-03-02T11:44:53 let me get what we have working first :) 2011-03-02T11:45:00 McLeopold: yeah 2011-03-02T11:45:14 it makes submission a bit harder for newbs 2011-03-02T11:45:33 or just let them all be marked as binary packages and use the hash bang 2011-03-02T11:46:02 hash bang would work 2011-03-02T11:46:18 mybot.py3 ? 2011-03-02T11:46:20 for detection 2011-03-02T11:46:32 that too 2011-03-02T11:46:57 .py assumes version 2, or you can use .py2 / .py3 2011-03-02T11:47:55 janzert: so, how much work do you plan to do right now? what's your current goal? 2011-03-02T11:49:15 just get the worker setup stuff running, and if you don't get to it I may do the compilation on workers move 2011-03-02T11:49:58 but if you're currently working on adapting stuff for multiplayer I think we'd step on each other right now 2011-03-02T11:50:21 One problem with the old code is that two workers one the same server could try to compile the same bot simultaneously. 2011-03-02T11:50:43 DanielVF: that was already worked around 2011-03-02T11:51:05 compilation is done in a temporary directory and then moved into the final position 2011-03-02T11:51:12 great 2011-03-02T11:51:25 Sounds good 2011-03-02T11:51:32 enough 2011-03-02T11:51:33 the old method managed to cause some actual problems in the last contest 2011-03-02T11:51:44 *nods* 2011-03-02T11:52:11 I was gonna change it to the temp dir, but ran out of time 2011-03-02T11:52:18 why does a worker need to tourament managers? 2011-03-02T11:52:21 2 2011-03-02T11:52:48 because it was the most efficient use of servers last time 2011-03-02T11:52:52 A better solution would be to prefetch the next game and bots while one round is playing 2011-03-02T11:52:58 then compile and play 2011-03-02T11:53:10 * janzert nods 2011-03-02T11:53:24 and copy the bots into place during the prefetch 2011-03-02T11:53:25 janzert: I am going to work on worker communication next 2011-03-02T11:53:41 And, I already need to rewrite the manager 2011-03-02T11:53:52 great 2011-03-02T11:53:53 Because most games happened very quickly 2011-03-02T11:54:06 Maybe I could attempt to make the manager use processes or threads and keep it running always? 2011-03-02T11:54:07 the server spent almost as much time downloading as playing 2011-03-02T11:54:25 You could give that a shot 2011-03-02T11:54:38 DanielVF: that pattern changed once a worker was up for an hour or two 2011-03-02T11:54:41 The manager could do the downloads and create a compile or play process 2011-03-02T11:54:46 if it turns out too complicated, you could ditch it. 2011-03-02T11:55:04 Or have one play/compile process 2011-03-02T11:55:16 that get's handed games 2011-03-02T11:55:26 and one fetch process that gets them ready 2011-03-02T11:55:39 it's going to be pretty much impossible to use the servers as efficiently with n-player games 2011-03-02T11:56:10 well, once a worker has all submissions, it would be pretty fast 2011-03-02T11:56:19 *nods* 2011-03-02T11:56:20 do we even have a plan for what to do with fewer cores than bots? 2011-03-02T11:56:33 no 2011-03-02T11:56:56 some signal stuff? wasn't jeff trying that? 2011-03-02T11:57:00 that's why I've been saying we can only go up to 8 player games 2011-03-02T11:57:32 *** Accoun has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-03-02T11:57:47 after too many, you can sequentially hand bots moves 2011-03-02T11:57:59 and nice them out other times 2011-03-02T11:58:14 the SIGSTOP idea sounds dirty, but maybe doable 2011-03-02T11:58:30 it's uncatchable, right? 2011-03-02T11:58:53 yup, it is 2011-03-02T11:58:55 that would work 2011-03-02T11:59:06 sequentially hand bots moves, SIGSTOP when they shouldn't be running 2011-03-02T11:59:41 there goes my usual method of continuing to run my bot between sending orders and receiving the next update from the engine ;) 2011-03-02T12:00:00 I'll try it. 2011-03-02T12:00:14 Then we can have 1000 player games. 2011-03-02T12:00:18 lol 2011-03-02T12:00:21 for the final 2011-03-02T12:00:41 this also means we can have the rather simple arrangement of n games going going at a time on n cores 2011-03-02T12:00:44 jmcarthur: maybe a bots first submission need to be a game with lots of players? 2011-03-02T12:00:54 McLeopold: i think so, yes 2011-03-02T12:01:09 I've been thinking of the match making algo. 2011-03-02T12:01:30 not going with trueskill's? 2011-03-02T12:01:38 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T12:01:48 When a bot's number is called, the matcher will pick an n-player game that the bot hasn't played in awhile. so the number of players always rotates. 2011-03-02T12:01:59 With many bots in one game, it's important to have some kind of individual score at the end of the game 2011-03-02T12:02:14 So that we can do 2011-03-02T12:02:17 TrueSkill doesn't really match players, it just tells you how good a match is predicted to be 2011-03-02T12:02:18 a > b > c> d 2011-03-02T12:02:27 DanielVF: that is the case here 2011-03-02T12:02:34 Yup 2011-03-02T12:02:49 McLeopold: right. so we could just have a pool of bots that haven't played in a while then, right? 2011-03-02T12:03:05 and pick matches from it probabilitistically? 2011-03-02T12:03:12 *probabilistically 2011-03-02T12:04:02 yes, but I would pick 1 at a time 2011-03-02T12:04:21 well, pick one bot that needs to play *right now*, and then pick the other bots for it to play with in the next game 2011-03-02T12:04:41 does SIGSTOP stop all children as well? 2011-03-02T12:04:45 get the seed bot, pick the next that hasn't played it in awhile, pick the 3rd that hasn't played the other 2 in awhile... 2011-03-02T12:04:46 janzert: i think so 2011-03-02T12:04:48 I think new submissions get extra games starts. Makes things more addictive, and keeps the scoreboard more accurate. 2011-03-02T12:04:48 *nods* 2011-03-02T12:04:49 ok 2011-03-02T12:04:50 * DanielVF afk 2011-03-02T12:05:18 McLeopold: well, surely we still want to take skill into consideration, too 2011-03-02T12:06:00 yes, but I want the "to tag backs" logic to constrain the pool that trueskill picks from 2011-03-02T12:06:07 *no tag backs* 2011-03-02T12:06:13 okay 2011-03-02T12:06:15 that's reasonable 2011-03-02T12:06:30 it's the same we did for planet wars 2011-03-02T12:06:32 as long as it doesnt overconstrain it 2011-03-02T12:06:50 it's rather play a few of the same bots than be forced to play significantly badly matched bots 2011-03-02T12:06:52 *i'd 2011-03-02T12:07:26 but, antimatroid made a good point last night, that bots do need to play outside their skill level a few times 2011-03-02T12:07:29 *** JackyAlcine has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-03-02T12:07:34 *than be forced to play badly matched bots very frequently 2011-03-02T12:07:49 i also agree with that 2011-03-02T12:08:07 otherwise there is a risk of overfitting in your local area and not being able to move up or down properly 2011-03-02T12:08:59 I think planetwars distribution did fairly well but there are definitely improvements that could be made 2011-03-02T12:09:08 right, so if I'm playing halo, I want the game to be close so it is fun. But in a tournament, we want the games to be informative of tactics. 2011-03-02T12:09:29 that kind of happened to me in the tron contest. a few versions of my bot did better against top ranking bots than mid ranking bots. my attempts to fix that ended up hurting me against the top bots though 2011-03-02T12:10:06 I'd like to think my pw bot was the one that surprised the top bots. :) 2011-03-02T12:10:12 heh 2011-03-02T12:10:35 If only I hadn't started on the timer code 1 hour before the deadline... 2011-03-02T12:16:21 janzert: can we support a bash bot? 2011-03-02T12:16:30 :) 2011-03-02T12:16:36 I think we should 2011-03-02T12:16:38 lol 2011-03-02T12:16:41 harccore 2011-03-02T12:16:45 *hardcore 2011-03-02T12:16:52 it's basically the same as supporting binaries 2011-03-02T12:16:59 i want somebody to win with a bash bpot 2011-03-02T12:17:01 *bot 2011-03-02T12:17:22 it's not quite the same. with binaries there's that argument about architecture dependency 2011-03-02T12:17:45 yes, but at least we can say, compile on ubuntuserver 10.10 2011-03-02T12:17:56 uhh.. 2011-03-02T12:18:01 wait 2011-03-02T12:18:04 at least with bash you aren't necessarily calling out to a precompiled binary without knowing the architecture 2011-03-02T12:18:23 although you could 2011-03-02T12:19:26 jmcarthur: yeah, I just meant if we support bash it's trivial for people to use any arbitrary binary submission 2011-03-02T12:19:33 could do that anyway 2011-03-02T12:19:36 exec, etc. 2011-03-02T12:21:29 yeah, but "#!/bin/bash\n mybinarybot" is really trivial :) 2011-03-02T12:22:38 that alone won't work 2011-03-02T12:22:43 still need exec 2011-03-02T12:22:57 but yeah 2011-03-02T12:23:19 #!/bin/bash\n exec mybinarybot 2011-03-02T12:23:28 ahh, yeah 2011-03-02T12:24:06 needs to be fancier if you want to have a choice between 32 or 64 bit based on architecture or something, but i digress 2011-03-02T12:24:28 ubuntu has the beef package! 2011-03-02T12:24:35 beef? 2011-03-02T12:24:37 MyBot.bf 2011-03-02T12:24:44 lol 2011-03-02T12:24:44 looks like brainfuck 2011-03-02T12:24:54 it is :D 2011-03-02T12:24:54 .bf, i mean 2011-03-02T12:24:56 ah 2011-03-02T12:24:59 heh 2011-03-02T12:25:11 you win the internet if you win this contest with brainfuck 2011-03-02T12:25:30 but no whitespace :( 2011-03-02T12:26:05 make a shell script to remove whitespacebefore you submit 2011-03-02T12:26:46 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T12:26:46 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2011-03-02T12:27:16 DanielVF: he means whitespace the language 2011-03-02T12:27:22 Ah 2011-03-02T12:27:28 lol 2011-03-02T12:27:32 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitespace_(programming_language) 2011-03-02T12:27:51 the only way to read it is basically syntax highlighting, as that article shows :P 2011-03-02T12:28:01 or an editor showing invisible chars in some way 2011-03-02T12:28:56 how about java2k? we could force that language on everyone 2011-03-02T12:30:51 Flickr supported lolcat language for api's for a while 2011-03-02T12:30:58 They've still got it 2011-03-02T12:31:08 it's just not in their documentation anymore 2011-03-02T12:31:26 http://api.flickr.com/services/feeds/photos_public.gne?id=35034363287@N01&lang=en-us&format=lolcode 2011-03-02T12:31:40 Api response 2011-03-02T12:32:57 hey, there is brainfuck++ 2011-03-02T12:33:24 * DanielVF not afk, but hiding chat so that I can work. :D 2011-03-02T12:33:37 s/I can/He can/g 2011-03-02T12:34:00 so.. what's going on? 2011-03-02T12:34:41 *** Accoun has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-03-02T12:36:52 amstan: were going to support bash and brainfuck bots now... 2011-03-02T12:36:58 McLeopold: ... 2011-03-02T12:37:31 *** emgallar has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-03-02T12:38:38 :D 2011-03-02T12:38:48 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T12:41:53 Okay, sign me up for the lolcode bot. 2011-03-02T12:43:26 OHAI 2011-03-02T12:45:11 CAN HAZ STDIO 2011-03-02T12:45:17 KTHXBYE 2011-03-02T12:45:26 NOWAI 2011-03-02T12:46:07 *** JackyAlcine has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T12:51:04 *** Naktibalda has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716]) 2011-03-02T13:07:08 *** smp_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T13:07:18 hi there 2011-03-02T13:07:34 a couple of quicke questions 2011-03-02T13:07:55 what version of mono will you target in epsilon? 2011-03-02T13:08:13 and is there a guesstimate as to when will the contest start? 2011-03-02T13:10:41 currently using this mono package http://packages.ubuntu.com/maverick/mono-2.0-devel 2011-03-02T13:11:26 ok 2011-03-02T13:12:13 I haven't heard anything about a start date yet 2011-03-02T13:13:07 ok, thx 2011-03-02T14:12:35 *** boegel has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T14:15:29 *** Meatkat has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-03-02T14:17:12 *** Kingpin13|shop is now known as Kingpin13 2011-03-02T14:23:32 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T14:54:25 *** smp_ has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-03-02T15:01:34 *** smellyhippy has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2011-03-02T15:05:38 *** bhasker has left #aichallenge 2011-03-02T15:08:05 *** smellyhippy has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T15:08:05 *** smellyhippy has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T15:09:44 *** bhasker_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T15:16:54 *** _flag <_flag!~flag@69-165-173-172.dsl.teksavvy.com> has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T15:21:08 *** boegel has quit IRC (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2011-03-02T15:24:17 *** Accoun has quit IRC () 2011-03-02T15:36:58 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T15:44:39 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T15:56:37 *** sigh has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-03-02T16:20:48 aichallenge: janzert epsilon * r35c4ef3 / worker/game_server_build.sh : First pass at updating worker build script - http://bit.ly/fuP6HE 2011-03-02T16:27:26 janzert: looks good 2011-03-02T16:27:37 *** Palmik_ has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-03-02T16:32:52 *** Mathnerd314 has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.13/20101203075014]) 2011-03-02T16:46:10 *** delt0r___ has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T16:47:45 *** delt0r_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2011-03-02T17:01:03 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T17:39:32 *** mega1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-03-02T17:50:34 *** Mathnerd314 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T18:16:59 The more I think about it, the more I think asking the bots for their input serially would work great 2011-03-02T18:17:16 We actually get reliably give them a second of thinking 2011-03-02T18:17:32 Might reduce the CPU from hopping among threads 2011-03-02T18:19:11 *** McLeopold has left #aichallenge 2011-03-02T19:04:55 We can also record how long they think 2011-03-02T19:05:07 Shouldn't affect overall thruput 2011-03-02T19:05:18 and would make the worker code simpler 2011-03-02T19:11:53 *** Kingpin13 has quit IRC (Quit: You're a kitty!) 2011-03-02T19:18:29 *** McLeopold has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T19:26:35 *** Migi32 has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-03-02T19:32:14 *** smellyhippy has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-03-02T19:37:11 *** smellyhippy has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T19:37:11 *** smellyhippy has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T19:52:06 *** McLeopold has left #aichallenge 2011-03-02T20:02:31 *** McLeopold has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T20:04:49 *** antiuni has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T20:07:43 *** Meatkat has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T20:10:38 LOLCODE is somewhat inspirational :D. I like it better than the other joke languanges and it reminds me of how I started with QBasic which was similar :p 2011-03-02T20:11:26 *** janzert1 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T20:11:51 Heh 2011-03-02T20:11:53 *** janzert has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2011-03-02T20:12:03 My first program was 2011-03-02T20:12:06 10 BEEP 2011-03-02T20:15:13 I HAZ A dog ITZ NOOB <=> var dog = null; 2011-03-02T20:17:29 *** JackyAlcine has quit IRC (Quit: I've closed my client.) 2011-03-02T20:29:18 my first language was the ultimate joke language 2011-03-02T20:29:19 java 2011-03-02T20:30:41 DanielVF: This is what zeta does right now (unless people decide to change it before the first contest to use it). 2011-03-02T20:31:24 i'm glad other people are finally on board about sequentially allowing each bot to pick their moves 2011-03-02T20:31:31 (I agree that giving each bot a full second is fair.) 2011-03-02T20:31:50 they only got 0.5 previously 2011-03-02T20:31:55 i would set it at 0.5 2011-03-02T20:32:01 well, 0.5 in the worst case 2011-03-02T20:33:07 *** mceier has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2011-03-02T20:34:03 jbroman Ah. Cool 2011-03-02T20:34:06 *** DanielVF has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving...) 2011-03-02T20:35:12 *** DanielVF has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T20:48:41 With all the LOLCODE inspiration I got an idea! 2011-03-02T20:48:53 Frontier: lolcode is missing some stuff 2011-03-02T20:50:20 If IE cannot display the canvas, but it supports a Java plugin... then I could try and load my JavaScript into a JavaScript interpeter for Java and connect the canvas functions to Java2D drawing routines :D 2011-03-02T20:50:36 great idea or wha? 2011-03-02T20:50:47 i can haz recursion? 2011-03-02T20:51:06 lolcode has no recursion? orly? 2011-03-02T20:51:14 kthxbye 2011-03-02T20:52:06 McLeopold: http://blog.geeksphere.net/2010/08/26/recursive-fibonacci-in-lolcode/ 2011-03-02T20:52:52 I don't know if it compiles though 2011-03-02T20:54:18 lol shit, now I have an irresistible urge to write comments like "i can not haz canvas? mkay, gonna try java" in my code 2011-03-02T20:57:21 http://pastebin.com/dKjWd9UH 2011-03-02T20:57:37 There's my ants hold bot in lolcode! 2011-03-02T21:03:41 antiuni: huh? they got a second previously 2011-03-02T21:04:57 i almost want to do my bot in lolcode now 2011-03-02T21:05:34 jmcarthur: not if your opponent was also using their time 2011-03-02T21:05:45 each server had 2 games playing at once, each server had but two cores 2011-03-02T21:05:51 meaning two bots were playing on a core at a time 2011-03-02T21:06:02 antiuni: multicore 2011-03-02T21:06:06 oh 2011-03-02T21:06:13 two games at once. didn't realize that 2011-03-02T21:06:21 i wanted it changed, but it was too late 2011-03-02T21:06:29 *** McLeopold has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-03-02T21:06:46 that's lame 2011-03-02T21:07:28 i would go for one game per core where each bot executes sequentially 2011-03-02T21:07:32 best throughput and fairness 2011-03-02T21:07:42 that's what i wanted, but no one else seemed to think it was important 2011-03-02T21:07:52 that's why i'm a little surprised people are talking about changing it again 2011-03-02T21:08:05 well it's coming up now because there are >2 bots per game 2011-03-02T21:08:31 yeah, it was just going to be set at a higher amount with varying amounts of time per turn per game 2011-03-02T21:08:40 again, it wasn't what i liked, it 2011-03-02T21:08:46 s what people seemed to decide on previously 2011-03-02T21:12:52 i do still think that our idea about having a pool of time and stuff might be nice 2011-03-02T21:24:32 *** Todd200 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T21:24:53 Hello 2011-03-02T21:25:02 Todd200: hi 2011-03-02T21:25:30 Hey amstan :) 2011-03-02T21:26:01 The next contest looks like it's going to come out good 2011-03-02T21:26:30 Todd200: indeed, the future looks bright 2011-03-02T21:26:36 Why can't you guys do something like BOINC for simulating battles? Then people could donate processing power 2011-03-02T21:27:17 Todd200: how secure is it though? 2011-03-02T21:27:39 Not sure 2011-03-02T21:27:51 Todd200: what would stop contestants from joining the grid and making returning that their bot won all the time 2011-03-02T21:28:29 True, but the 6 games per min was terrible last time :/ 2011-03-02T21:28:56 that was the crappy days 2011-03-02T21:29:00 when we had difficulties 2011-03-02T21:30:19 With Elo my bot lost vs a bot in the top 10, so Elo said "put him in rank 22" I was happy for a few hours 2011-03-02T21:30:41 we're using trueskill this time 2011-03-02T21:30:58 Yep, looks like it will work well 2011-03-02T21:31:37 Todd200: "A credit management system helps to ensure that users are returning results which are both scientifically and statistically accurate." ~ BOINC 2011-03-02T21:31:59 Todd200: there's no point in cheating for BOINC 2011-03-02T21:32:30 It's used for cancer research, among other things 2011-03-02T21:32:45 *** antiuni has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-03-02T21:33:15 You guys should push that these contests are a good way to learn a language 2011-03-02T21:33:46 Todd200: yeah, feel free making suggestions for the content in the main site 2011-03-02T21:34:16 Todd200: antimatroid is working on some text for it on the wiki: https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge/wiki 2011-03-02T21:34:21 Todd200: see the ants pages 2011-03-02T21:36:35 Are you guys using the same rules for a bot crashing as last time? 2011-03-02T21:36:50 probably 2011-03-02T21:38:28 Why not have a bot just pass if it tries to do something invalid, Instead of stopping the game, just move no ants for that player 2011-03-02T21:38:58 Frontier: close the issue? 2011-03-02T21:39:47 Todd200: if the game can last a maximum of 200 turns.. and ignore any invalid move/timeout 2011-03-02T21:39:52 Todd200: then you'll waste 200 seconds 2011-03-02T21:39:55 amstan: sorry? what issue? 2011-03-02T21:40:06 Frontier: the ie stuff with canvas, can i close it? 2011-03-02T21:40:11 Frontier: if we give up on it 2011-03-02T21:40:20 Assuming that other bot lacks the ability to destroy it 2011-03-02T21:40:29 no 2011-03-02T21:40:37 Todd200: they bots time out? 2011-03-02T21:40:53 Then call the match 2011-03-02T21:41:03 Or give each bot 3 strikes 2011-03-02T21:41:13 Todd200: maybe, but... 2011-03-02T21:41:15 I'm trying a JavaScript<->JavaApplet bridge first when I get Java and IE to run on wine. 2011-03-02T21:41:20 Frontier: ok.. 2011-03-02T21:42:37 Todd200: rather complicated 2011-03-02T21:42:47 True 2011-03-02T21:42:51 who was giving up on the canvas? 2011-03-02T21:43:03 <_flag> Fronteir: have you tried looking into Google Chrome Frame? I don't think IE users are a significant enough portion of the userbase at only 5% to be worrying about tbh 2011-03-02T21:43:11 Frontier: wasn't it you? lol 2011-03-02T21:43:15 it renders a frame every 4 seconds and looks like pre-90s, but hey! it works 2011-03-02T21:43:37 _flag: oh! that was you! 2011-03-02T21:43:39 Because I know that my bot last time would crash if the strongest planet was being attacked and would be destroyed, 2011-03-02T21:43:41 darn, sorry 2011-03-02T21:43:54 <_flag> amstan: what? 2011-03-02T21:43:57 Todd200: so.. fix your bot then, you have 3 months 2011-03-02T21:44:08 _flag: i tought the post that you made was made by frontier 2011-03-02T21:44:17 "I'm not sure people will agree with me on this, but it's probably not necessary to support a browser that a relatively small number of programmers actually use." ~ flagcapper 2011-03-02T21:44:18 <_flag> I never said to give up on canvas 2011-03-02T21:44:33 _flag: canvas on ie 2011-03-02T21:44:55 * Todd200 uses chrome 2011-03-02T21:44:57 <_flag> Canvas doesn't work on ie... D: 2011-03-02T21:46:05 Frontier: https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge/issues/labels/visualizer 2011-03-02T21:46:15 guys, please inform me if i'm going overboard with the labels 2011-03-02T21:47:15 <_flag> If there's only a small number of issues it probably doesn't matter too much 2011-03-02T21:47:29 <_flag> But it's always nice to keep things organized 2011-03-02T21:47:42 *** smellyhippy has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-03-02T21:48:32 I wonder what strategy will be the dominate one this time, pathfinding will be limited because of fog of war 2011-03-02T21:48:59 Frontier: oh.. right.. any plans for fog of war on your visualizer? 2011-03-02T21:50:10 yea i have a long todo at the top of visualizer.js. fog of war is on place 1 2011-03-02T21:52:20 Anything I can help with? 2011-03-02T21:54:22 contestbot: learn contributing as https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge/wiki/How-to-Contribute 2011-03-02T21:54:22 amstan: Ready to serve. 2011-03-02T21:54:29 #contributing 2011-03-02T21:54:33 @contributing 2011-03-02T21:54:34 amstan: contributing = https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge/wiki/How-to-Contribute 2011-03-02T21:54:48 Todd200: there, it's a nice article explaining how you can help 2011-03-02T21:54:50 Nice bot :) 2011-03-02T21:55:54 *** smellyhippy has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T21:55:55 *** smellyhippy has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T21:59:22 *** Todd200 has left #aichallenge ("bbl") 2011-03-02T22:06:36 <_flag> amstan: Can you program the bot to do logic? 2011-03-02T22:06:50 _flag: it's all python 2011-03-02T22:06:55 <_flag> From irc that is 2011-03-02T22:07:02 contestbot: help if 2011-03-02T22:07:02 amstan: Error: There is no command "if". 2011-03-02T22:07:07 contestbot: help cond 2011-03-02T22:07:07 amstan: Error: There is no command "cond". 2011-03-02T22:07:12 contestbot: botdoc 2011-03-02T22:07:13 amstan: botdoc = (#1) http://ubottu.com/stdin/supydocs/plugins/, or (#2) http://supybook.fealdia.org/devel/, or (#3) http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/gribble/index.php?title=Supybot_Resources 2011-03-02T22:07:18 *** JackyAlcine has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T22:07:53 _flag: i think you could.. 2011-03-02T22:08:02 _flag: but i don't see the point 2011-03-02T22:08:17 <_flag> amstan: It was more of a curiosity thing 2011-03-02T22:12:02 *** github_bot has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T22:12:25 *** github_bot has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T22:12:25 aichallenge: pw Alexandru Stan * 06a0128 (0 files in 0 dirs): imported the svn repo into git, authors file included 2011-03-02T22:12:25 aichallenge: pw Alexandru Stan * a6d5fce (0 files in 0 dirs): renamed worker backend 2011-03-02T22:12:25 aichallenge: pw Alexandru Stan * a825b82 (0 files in 0 dirs): copied worker folder from the other branch, hence merged them 2011-03-02T22:12:25 aichallenge: pw commits 2301632...a825b82 - http://bit.ly/hbXed8 2011-03-02T22:12:25 *** github_bot has left #aichallenge 2011-03-02T22:12:50 idk... i don't like this as much.. 2011-03-02T22:12:56 cia stays in here all the time, less spam 2011-03-02T22:25:13 *** bss03 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T22:25:53 I hear work has started in earnet on ants for the next contest. 2011-03-02T22:26:41 I'll try to start pitching in this weekend; my DJ will take most of my time during the week. 2011-03-02T22:40:27 @contributing 2011-03-02T22:40:29 amstan: contributing = https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge/wiki/How-to-Contribute 2011-03-02T22:40:30 bss03: ^ 2011-03-02T22:41:53 Yeah, I have the link; I've been following the forum RSS feed. 2011-03-02T22:42:08 bss03: well.. what are you interested in? 2011-03-02T22:42:29 I'll definitely loom on the IRC channel when I'm looking for work. 2011-03-02T22:42:40 bss03: ok, cool, thanks 2011-03-02T22:43:29 Is the engine finished? I was gonna work on that, first. After that I figured I'd try my hand at the canvas visualizer. 2011-03-02T22:43:47 bss03: visualizer is being worked at by Frontier 2011-03-02T22:43:58 bss03: you could collaborate with him, if he needs help 2011-03-02T22:44:20 bss03: the engine... i think it's in good shape 2011-03-02T22:45:12 Well, when I have more time, I'll browse the issue list and see if I can fix anything there. 2011-03-02T22:47:42 *** acieroid has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-03-02T22:48:03 *** acieroid has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T22:51:52 Right now, it's about 8h 10m before I have to get up for work. 2011-03-02T22:52:11 If nothing else, I can work on a Haskell starter kit. :P 2011-03-02T22:53:18 *** acieroid` has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T22:55:28 *** acieroid has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2011-03-02T23:01:23 bss03: I think jmcarthur has one already: http://hpaste.org/paste/44377/ants_starter_annotation 2011-03-02T23:02:45 *** helo has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T23:06:27 *shrug* Hopefully I can find something to do. 2011-03-02T23:06:34 G'night for now though. 2011-03-02T23:06:38 *** bss03 has left #aichallenge ("Konversation terminated!") 2011-03-02T23:06:54 *** Frontier has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2011-03-02T23:22:15 *** Frontier has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T23:27:30 i'm still working on that 2011-03-02T23:27:42 the interface is already a little different 2011-03-02T23:33:57 *** _flag <_flag!~flag@69-165-173-172.dsl.teksavvy.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal) 2011-03-02T23:40:09 jmcarthur: i think "extra" time might be messy, i'd say give everyone an extra 0.05 seconds per turn or something 2011-03-02T23:40:16 from what is actually passed to them that is 2011-03-02T23:44:22 also, for future reference, the engine is now ignoring invalid moves and a crashed bot score gets frozen, but their ants remain on the board "not moving" each turn 2011-03-02T23:44:49 cool 2011-03-02T23:44:58 why don't they lose immediately? 2011-03-02T23:45:15 sigh: the >2 players thing makes it a tougher decision 2011-03-02T23:45:27 ah, makes sense 2011-03-02T23:45:48 i almost think their score shouldn't be frozen 2011-03-02T23:46:00 it is a competition testing ones ability to make ai over programming afterall 2011-03-02T23:46:20 code should be robust enough 2011-03-02T23:46:52 i wouldn't be opposed to giving a submission "x crashes before being disabled" 2011-03-02T23:47:07 but 1 crash -> disqualified was insnae 2011-03-02T23:47:16 i don't see any reason to disqualify a crashing bot 2011-03-02T23:47:21 disqualified from the game, not the tournament 2011-03-02T23:47:29 they get ranked low. big deal 2011-03-02T23:47:31 if it's crashing lots it's wasting resources 2011-03-02T23:47:40 it's not like a crashing bot really takes many resources 2011-03-02T23:47:45 they crash. they're done 2011-03-02T23:48:02 true, but isn't there meant to be a fair bit of overhead with running games too? 2011-03-02T23:48:06 they get whatever score they deserve 2011-03-02T23:48:15 okay, it's fine as is :) 2011-03-02T23:49:56 ok, I haven't read the specs in a while but... how do you score if the ants aren't moving? 2011-03-02T23:50:09 *** antimatroid has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-02T23:51:01 sigh: have you read the scoring system? 2011-03-02T23:51:12 no :D 2011-03-02T23:51:32 if an ant dies, any enemy ants in range (currently dying or live) get an equal proportion of that ants points, which are then passed onto the owner if the owner hasn't crashed 2011-03-02T23:51:52 there is also a food bonus at the end, but that's not the main part of scoring 2011-03-02T23:52:12 so if an ant dies while in range of two of A's ants and one of B's ants, A gets twice as many points as B? 2011-03-02T23:52:21 *currently dying from battle, ants are removed from collisions before that 2011-03-02T23:52:21 *** antimatroid1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-03-02T23:52:27 jmcarthur: yes 2011-03-02T23:52:51 of course, depending on the combat resolution, both A's might die anyway 2011-03-02T23:53:06 yeah, i still can't believe that's even a question 2011-03-02T23:53:09 battle option 1 is so much better 2011-03-02T23:53:17 hmm... would the scoring really even make a difference with option 2? 2011-03-02T23:53:28 oh i guess it would still work 2011-03-02T23:53:28 not sure, i've not thought about option 2 in ages 2011-03-02T23:53:34 i still expect the better option to prevail 2011-03-02T23:53:47 i don't. i expect whatever option j3camero likes to prevail 2011-03-02T23:53:57 it may be the better. it may not 2011-03-02T23:54:19 meh, i'll fight that one to the end 2011-03-02T23:54:35 i'd prefer to play on a separate tcp server otherwise 2011-03-02T23:55:08 antimatroid forks contest 2011-03-02T23:55:44 antimacontest 2011-03-02T23:55:44 :P 2011-03-02T23:55:52 anti-contest 2011-03-02T23:55:56 single competitor 2011-03-02T23:55:59 ant-icontest 2011-03-02T23:56:04 everyone's a winner! 2011-03-02T23:56:10 and a loser! 2011-03-02T23:56:19 clopen, you just made that up didn't you? 2011-03-02T23:56:26 :P 2011-03-02T23:56:26 sigh: did you see the hitler learns maths video? 2011-03-02T23:56:29 yeah 2011-03-02T23:56:32 so good 2011-03-02T23:56:57 I only have a passing familiarity with topology 2011-03-02T23:57:09 let's play antimatroid always wins 2011-03-02T23:57:16 i'll start.... 2011-03-02T23:57:18 yeah, i've not actually done it formally other than stuff in analysis, i have point set up next semester 2011-03-02T23:57:20 antimatroid wins 2011-03-02T23:57:26 darn. thought i had a chance that time 2011-03-02T23:58:00 did you guys see the juggling geese thing on reddit? 2011-03-02T23:58:05 no 2011-03-02T23:58:12 i'll start you where i started 2011-03-02T23:58:20 I saw jmcarthur applying for haskell job though 2011-03-02T23:58:23 http://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/fvkh8/pssst_hey_australia_come_over_here_for_a_sec/ 2011-03-02T23:58:47 that links to /r/canada which links somewhere else in /r/canada, which resultedin a youtube video and a front page post on /r/vido 2011-03-02T23:59:13 http://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/fvpk6/street_vendor_in_paraguay_juggles_baby_geese/ that's where most of reddit started 2011-03-02T23:59:35 heh