2011-03-09T00:06:19 *** _flag <_flag!~flag@69-165-173-172.dsl.teksavvy.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal) 2011-03-09T00:34:33 *** McLeopold has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T00:35:41 sigh: you have very nice repos 2011-03-09T00:35:55 amstan, what do you mean? 2011-03-09T00:36:04 config-files and python-math 2011-03-09T00:36:19 i think i'm gonna steal some ideas from your config-files 2011-03-09T00:36:57 haha, no worries :) 2011-03-09T00:37:42 There was a time when I basically went through all the bash, inputrc, vim, etc options to figure out what I wanted 2011-03-09T00:38:15 sigh: how's it going? 2011-03-09T00:38:35 no bad, still at work :) 2011-03-09T00:39:01 McLeopold: oh... you asked me if i cherry picked before you left 2011-03-09T00:39:14 McLeopold: what were you referring to? 2011-03-09T00:39:25 McLeopold: to the time when i fixed lavalamp's repo? 2011-03-09T00:40:22 I wanted to pull a change to 1 file I did in epsilon into epsilon-new-schema 2011-03-09T00:40:48 McLeopold: is your change within one commit? 2011-03-09T00:40:52 yes 2011-03-09T00:40:57 well, no 2011-03-09T00:40:58 as in.. the commit only contains that change? 2011-03-09T00:41:11 I pulled from sigh's fork, then made a change myself 2011-03-09T00:41:21 so, it might be 2 or three 2011-03-09T00:41:29 McLeopold: ok.. can you just link me? 2011-03-09T00:41:38 h/o 2011-03-09T00:42:03 McLeopold, sigh: https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge/wiki/Ants-Game-Specification 2011-03-09T00:42:10 I should write books 2011-03-09T00:42:37 Frontier: thanks 2011-03-09T00:42:53 Frontier: http://progit.org/ was entirely done in markdown, so you could.. 2011-03-09T00:43:13 amstan: the last 2 commits on epsilon are mine 2011-03-09T00:43:23 plus everything I pulled from sigh 2011-03-09T00:43:34 there are 2 commits in the middle 2011-03-09T00:43:42 but it only affects 1 file 2011-03-09T00:43:52 not sure how exactly to isolate it 2011-03-09T00:43:54 * amstan is baffled to why sigh doesn't appear in https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge/network 2011-03-09T00:44:13 *** chris__0076 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T00:44:26 amstan: he's the top black line 2011-03-09T00:44:38 oh.. ok 2011-03-09T00:45:08 McLeopold: so.. what do you need from epsilon into epsilon-new-schema? 2011-03-09T00:45:32 all the little dots on the top black line starting with sigh first commit 2011-03-09T00:46:08 McLeopold: you just want to update the new schema branch with the changes from epsilon, right? 2011-03-09T00:46:12 McLeopold: why not do a merge? 2011-03-09T00:46:23 merge epsilon into new-schema 2011-03-09T00:46:36 that should bring all changes in, including the starter packages 2011-03-09T00:46:47 *** chris___0076 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-03-09T00:47:06 not all of them, just those few commits that affected ants.py 2011-03-09T00:47:24 McLeopold: cherry picking makes stuff complicated, merging would make it more semantic 2011-03-09T00:47:27 Part of it is a learning exercise 2011-03-09T00:47:38 other changes in epsilon are mostly unrelated, and they should be merged in 2011-03-09T00:51:52 *** delt0r_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T00:52:20 sigh: https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge/issues#issue/14 this link has an example of the new replay format 2011-03-09T00:53:02 sigh: basically, the engine would need to track ants and build a direction string as the game progresses, and also track food's start and end turn 2011-03-09T00:53:05 *** delt0r___ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-03-09T00:53:13 McLeopold: cool, I'll have a look at that later 2011-03-09T00:53:22 k 2011-03-09T00:54:10 I think my aim tonight is just to get the engine actually running, I didn't bother to do that yesterday :P 2011-03-09T00:56:36 sigh: do you run windows? 2011-03-09T00:57:04 no, OSX laptop and Ubuntu desktop 2011-03-09T00:57:18 sigh: run "make_movie.cmd maps/random4.txt 1000" 2011-03-09T00:57:36 translate make_movie.cmd to osx or linux syntax then 2011-03-09T00:57:51 that will create files in the viewer dir 2011-03-09T00:57:56 ah cool 2011-03-09T00:58:10 I might just be lazy and load up windows in parallels though :) 2011-03-09T00:58:19 you can then go into the viewer dir and run "python -m SimpleHTTPServer" and then hit http://localhost:8080/viewer.html 2011-03-09T00:58:30 yup 2011-03-09T00:58:48 you don't need windows, just look at the command that is running in make_movie.cmd 2011-03-09T00:59:09 In fact, a little write up of how to use the engine would be nice. :) 2011-03-09T00:59:33 playgame.py has lots of parser options that need to be cleaned up 2011-03-09T00:59:38 oh lol... it's just one command :) 2011-03-09T01:00:04 ok, I'm out for now 2011-03-09T01:00:09 yeah, yesterday I just ran the Makefile which seemed to be outdated 2011-03-09T01:00:11 cya 2011-03-09T01:00:21 bye 2011-03-09T01:00:42 there is also the -v switch which is outdated :p 2011-03-09T01:01:13 but the Makefile helped me understand how to use the engine 2011-03-09T01:01:55 *** amriedle has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal) 2011-03-09T01:05:08 amstan: no problems with you deleting it :) 2011-03-09T01:09:01 McLeopold: "This bike shed brought to you by antimatroid." what? 2011-03-09T01:11:02 *** janzert has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2011-03-09T01:17:26 antimatroid: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_Law_of_Triviality 2011-03-09T01:23:00 So what bike shed are we talking about? 2011-03-09T01:24:08 oh I see, it is the row/col bike shed 2011-03-09T01:26:02 I also once had a bike shed discussion with a colleague about camel-case-identifiers when applied to the 'id' suffix. 2011-03-09T01:26:37 I wanted to use 'id' and 'getObjectId()', he wanted 'id' and 'getObjectID()' 2011-03-09T01:29:07 *** janzert has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T01:29:17 meh, row,col is superior :P 2011-03-09T01:30:11 what was the comment about github going out of service? 2011-03-09T01:30:20 i can't find anything on their site :\ 2011-03-09T01:30:22 That was a sarcastic joke 2011-03-09T01:30:22 mysql died on github 2011-03-09T01:30:31 that was all 2011-03-09T01:30:45 They showed the fluffy rainbow unicorn and I spread false information. 2011-03-09T01:31:00 oh okay 2011-03-09T01:31:12 that's good then 2011-03-09T01:31:21 i'm planning to use git for something else this year 2011-03-09T01:31:23 antimatroid: tldr: Frontier broke github 2011-03-09T01:31:28 yeah i saw that 2011-03-09T01:32:01 The sky is green. 2011-03-09T01:32:12 what colour is the sky? 2011-03-09T01:32:50 is that a well known lame joke? 2011-03-09T01:33:28 Just checking if you believe everything ;) 2011-03-09T01:34:50 I really need to split up my JavaScript source code. I spend more time looking up functions in it than doing productive stuff 2011-03-09T01:35:32 Also NetBeans is slowing down to a crawl trying to reparse the code after every change. 2011-03-09T01:35:48 *** bss03 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-03-09T01:36:25 I need a script that puts the pieces back together and minifies the javascript and check that into the git repo 2011-03-09T01:36:56 *** sigh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2011-03-09T01:37:02 *** bss03 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T01:37:09 *** Palmik has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T01:40:00 I might follow this advice: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/779769/splitting-code-in-to-multiple-files-for-easier-management/779926#779926 2011-03-09T01:41:50 i often have too many files 2011-03-09T01:42:03 i end up wanting at least a .h for each struct 2011-03-09T01:42:09 if not a .cc as well 2011-03-09T01:43:03 *** chris___0076 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T01:45:15 *** chris__0076 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-03-09T01:45:48 *** janzert has left #aichallenge 2011-03-09T01:47:53 Well, in Java I never considered that a big problem. There you have a file for every class/struct. Except stuff that is not declared public, inner classes. 2011-03-09T01:49:21 Maybe it is because of all the header files that I don't like it in C++. Usually I try to keep classes which are used as parts of others in the same file. 2011-03-09T01:53:38 Frontier: feel free to split them, we can make a makefile later for making the scripts ready for production 2011-03-09T01:53:47 Frontier: git should not track minified stuff 2011-03-09T01:54:24 can one remove files from a github repo easily? 2011-03-09T01:54:28 amstan: that was my concern too. how about java classes? we should use the make file for them too i guess 2011-03-09T01:54:39 Frontier: yes 2011-03-09T01:54:49 antimatroid: what? 2011-03-09T01:55:03 i don't want to do it on aichallenge, i'm planning to put my thesis stuff on there 2011-03-09T01:55:08 so it's easy to work from uni or home 2011-03-09T01:55:27 and then i have to learn how to use it better :P 2011-03-09T01:55:29 antimatroid: remove files how? for what reason? 2011-03-09T01:55:41 because i no longer want that file, or renamed it or whatever? 2011-03-09T01:55:56 like, is there a "git remove file" command? 2011-03-09T01:55:59 when you delete a file in git.. you can always recover it from older versions 2011-03-09T01:56:01 yes 2011-03-09T01:56:03 there is 2011-03-09T01:56:09 okay, that was my question :) 2011-03-09T01:56:10 but it's always possible to get the contents from it 2011-03-09T01:56:16 yeah that's alright 2011-03-09T01:56:17 once you put something in git, it'll be there forever 2011-03-09T01:56:35 i just don't want the "current" version to be full of old files 2011-03-09T01:56:37 if you mistakely commit something private like passwords, it's hard to take them out 2011-03-09T01:56:53 i don't put passwords in files anyway :P 2011-03-09T01:56:54 lol, what a horror scenario 2011-03-09T01:56:55 but you can definatelly remove files 2011-03-09T01:58:08 svn has a server side command to purge old revisions and start counting at 0 again. 2011-03-09T01:58:30 Frontier: you can do this with git, by just removing the repo, making a new one 2011-03-09T01:58:50 ok, svn can keep the last n revisions :) 2011-03-09T02:05:30 *** janzert has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T02:36:18 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T03:00:27 *** McLeopold has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2011-03-09T03:23:51 *** aerique has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T03:26:14 *** boegel has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T03:42:16 *** mega1 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T03:56:28 *** antimatroid1 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T03:59:32 *** antimatroid has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2011-03-09T04:08:12 *** amstan has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2011-03-09T04:29:42 *** chris__0076 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T04:32:16 *** chris___0076 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-03-09T04:41:54 *** delt0r___ has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T04:43:25 *** delt0r_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-03-09T04:55:19 *** chris__0076 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-03-09T04:55:54 *** chris__0076 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T05:09:00 *** kaemo has 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the connection) 2011-03-09T15:31:09 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T15:37:57 *** antimatroid has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T15:38:52 lolscript 2011-03-09T15:40:13 *** antimatroid1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2011-03-09T15:40:52 Frontier: what happened? 2011-03-09T15:48:50 I can't stand this attitude of super serious coding any moar. Although I once had this Java class named HierGeschiehtEinWunder (a wonder happens here) refering to: http://jetzt.sueddeutsche.de/upl/images/user/ae/aesch/text/regular/168501.gif 2011-03-09T15:50:06 in english: http://publicstrategist.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/miracle.jpg 2011-03-09T15:53:00 It was a 8086 cpu simulator assembly to bytecode converter. And there were a lot of instructions that wouldn't fit in my class hierarchy of logical instructions, arithmetics, etc... so I put all their code in one horrible uber class with lots of ? : operators and called it ThenAMiracleOccurs. Unfortunatly it was a large class project and the teacher came about to notice that particular class. 2011-03-09T15:54:06 *** sigh has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-03-09T16:03:52 *** ali1`_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T16:03:52 *** ali1` has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-03-09T16:03:53 *** ali1`_ is now known as ali1` 2011-03-09T16:13:37 *** boegel has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2011-03-09T16:29:41 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T16:29:42 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2011-03-09T16:37:56 *** amstan_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T16:37:56 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan_ 2011-03-09T16:45:15 *** closedbracket has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-03-09T16:50:35 *** UncleVasya has quit IRC () 2011-03-09T16:51:50 *** Palmik has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-03-09T16:52:31 *** delt0r_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T16:53:58 *** delt0r___ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-03-09T16:59:30 *** pgpaskar_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2011-03-09T17:00:15 *** pgpaskar_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T17:08:26 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T17:24:38 *** closedbracket has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T17:36:52 *** amstan has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2011-03-09T17:41:37 *** nann is now known as Apophis 2011-03-09T17:42:49 *** amstan__ has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T17:42:49 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan__ 2011-03-09T17:42:49 *** amstan_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-03-09T17:49:42 *** mega1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2011-03-09T17:53:29 *** davidjliu has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T17:58:23 *** closedbracket has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-03-09T18:02:32 *** Blkt has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T18:18:03 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T18:18:03 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2011-03-09T18:26:33 *** Blkt has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-03-09T18:29:55 *** Blkt has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T19:05:04 *** Kingpin13 has quit IRC (Quit: You're a kitty!) 2011-03-09T19:33:19 *** Frontier has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2011-03-09T19:33:39 *** ali1` has quit IRC (Quit: ali1`) 2011-03-09T19:36:45 jmcarthur: Got the Haskell starter kit cleaned up and modularized, yet? 2011-03-09T19:49:15 On espilon-new-schema is game_player.player_id their position on the map? 2011-03-09T19:52:36 @later tell McLeopold janzert was saying we should, for matchmaking purposes, ignore maps that don't have the lowest priority. 2011-03-09T19:52:36 bss03: Aye, aye, sir 2011-03-09T19:53:15 @later tell McLeopold Is that correct? I want confirmation before I update the wiki. 2011-03-09T19:53:15 bss03: I think that worked... 2011-03-09T20:02:51 *** Blkt has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2011-03-09T20:06:26 *** superflit_ has quit IRC (Quit: superflit_) 2011-03-09T20:10:05 *** mceier has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2011-03-09T20:21:20 *** McLeopold has left #aichallenge 2011-03-09T20:31:21 *** antiuni has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T20:31:40 has anyone ever used git through a proxy? 2011-03-09T20:32:22 No. 2011-03-09T20:32:49 But, git uses some curl-ish to handle HTTP, so it shoudl respect HTTP_PROXY. 2011-03-09T20:33:11 For the git:// and ssh:// protocols, you can't use use web proxy, directly. 2011-03-09T20:33:29 You could possibly use a SOCKS proxy, though. 2011-03-09T20:33:44 * antiuni doesn't know very much about this stuff :) 2011-03-09T20:33:48 ssh:// of course wants to connect on port 22 (generally) and pass binary data. 2011-03-09T20:34:20 "git config --global http.proxy $http_proxy" i've tried that thing, but doesn't seem to work 2011-03-09T20:34:22 git:// isn't any better, plus it doesn't have anything like ~/.ssh/config to change its behavior. 2011-03-09T20:34:27 where can one actually set http_proxy? 2011-03-09T20:34:52 export HTTP_PROXY=http://my.proxy.name:port/ 2011-03-09T20:35:20 (That's Linux / UNIX, I won't really know MS Windows well.) 2011-03-09T20:35:42 Apparently it likes the lowercase http_proxy better (for some reason). 2011-03-09T20:36:18 I try and avoid proxies or stunnel around them. 2011-03-09T20:36:55 bss03: i'm trying to get it working at uni, i have no choice on the proxy :) 2011-03-09T20:37:10 antiuni: Your uni filters non-HTTP traffic? 2011-03-09T20:37:18 I've configured a VPS to run ssh on port 443 and used OpenSSH to open a SOCKS proxy to avoid hitting the web proxy at an employer. 2011-03-09T20:38:04 jbroman: i guess? i really have no idea about these things 2011-03-09T20:38:17 Probabaly even less expected things, too. You give me one open, unfiltered port and I can usually bypass whatever POS filtering you have everywhere else. 2011-03-09T20:38:19 i still get "HTTP request failed" when doing that stuff with lower case 2011-03-09T20:38:44 antiuni: I assume you are using a bona fide HTTP CONNECT proxy, not one of those "phpProxy" forwarding sites, right? 2011-03-09T20:38:48 Have you tried not using HTTP? Does using the git:// or ssh protocol work? 2011-03-09T20:38:59 i'll try that 2011-03-09T20:39:02 (But seriously, see if you can get a proper git or ssh connection out.) 2011-03-09T20:39:30 It's better to use git:// or ssh if you can, they are more efficent in terms of network traffic. 2011-03-09T20:40:38 *** McLeopold has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T20:41:25 bss03: the priority of maps is to make sure they all get played the same amount, so you kinda ignore priorty > 1 for a while 2011-03-09T20:41:58 until the priority 1 maps have been played as much as all the other maps 2011-03-09T20:42:07 Well, janzert was basically saying that you *never* schedule a game on an old map. 2011-03-09T20:42:22 that was planet wars 2011-03-09T20:42:25 But, that may have been because of the old system. 2011-03-09T20:42:46 we will retire maps, or mark them as deleted 2011-03-09T20:42:55 which means I need to add another field 2011-03-09T20:43:21 Okay, sounds like we want LFU mostly then. 2011-03-09T20:43:29 LFU? 2011-03-09T20:43:57 What's player_id in game_player? Is that for position? player_id = 0 means seed (module rotation, if we do that)? 2011-03-09T20:44:07 yes we want lfu 2011-03-09T20:44:10 Least Frequenty Used. 2011-03-09T20:44:22 yes, it's for position 2011-03-09T20:44:54 And user_id is just to avoid JOINs with submission, right? 2011-03-09T20:45:06 player_id 0 is not seed, seed_id is seed, on the game table 2011-03-09T20:45:12 yes 2011-03-09T20:46:49 Kk. Think I know enough about the new fields to maybe do some more work. 2011-03-09T20:53:24 meh, i guess git isn't happening here 2011-03-09T20:53:25 it hates me 2011-03-09T21:11:42 *** amstan has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2011-03-09T21:23:38 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T21:23:38 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2011-03-09T21:26:20 *** amriedle has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T21:48:19 Is there a good reason we are choosing a number of players before we choose a map? 2011-03-09T21:48:33 It seems like with good map rotation we automatically get good #players rotation. 2011-03-09T21:48:36 *** antimatroid has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-03-09T21:49:38 *** antimatroid has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T21:53:36 @later tell Frontier in the replay spec, why are the player names (and other data) specified by keys playername, is there any reason why the key is not player_name with being a parameter? 2011-03-09T21:53:36 sigh: Ready to serve, my lord. 2011-03-09T21:53:45 bss03: the maps and # of players are linked, so you might be right 2011-03-09T21:53:50 (or if anyone else can answer, that would be good) 2011-03-09T21:54:06 sigh: no good reason 2011-03-09T21:54:33 if Frontier agree's, we can change it 2011-03-09T21:54:59 cool, imo it makes much more sense to have the set of keys be static 2011-03-09T21:55:04 makes parsing simpler too 2011-03-09T21:59:11 *** amriedle has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal) 2011-03-09T21:59:38 Frontier was thinking a key, value where there is only ever 1 value would be easier 2011-03-09T22:03:06 depends how you go about it I guess 2011-03-09T22:04:11 you are either parsing the key, or parsing the value... and having to parse keys seems a bit ugly 2011-03-09T22:04:59 I agree 2011-03-09T22:05:06 I'll change the spec then 2011-03-09T22:05:26 :) 2011-03-09T22:24:10 *** amstan has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2011-03-09T22:49:56 *** amstan__ is now known as amstan 2011-03-09T22:59:00 *** janzert has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T23:02:18 *** Mathnerd314 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-03-09T23:12:26 *** janzert has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-03-09T23:15:41 *** davidjliu has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-03-09T23:30:35 *** janzert has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-09T23:38:53 Proposed SQL both on the wiki and in my trueskill-matching branch on github. 2011-03-09T23:39:04 Soonish, time for bed. 2011-03-09T23:39:26 McLeopold: you didn't merge.. 2011-03-09T23:48:24 amstan: I wanted to cherry-pick 2011-03-09T23:48:35 McLeopold: why? 2011-03-09T23:48:47 I think I already mentioned why. 2011-03-09T23:48:59 there's just no need for cherry pick now 2011-03-09T23:49:12 cherry pick makes the history messy, should only be used when there's no choice 2011-03-09T23:49:21 how messy? 2011-03-09T23:49:38 It's not like we have a beautiful history right now. 2011-03-09T23:49:57 that doesn't mean we should make it messier for no reason 2011-03-09T23:50:11 * jmcarthur mumbles something about darcs 2011-03-09T23:50:14 ;) 2011-03-09T23:51:01 bss03: it's coming along. i haven't worked on it in a few days though 2011-03-09T23:51:10 and i'll be leaving town for a few days soon 2011-03-09T23:51:24 and won't get to work on it during that 2011-03-09T23:51:53 jmcarthur: can you take a look at this https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge/wiki/Ants-Starter-Pack-Guide 2011-03-09T23:52:06 bss03: it's working and is definitely more modular. now you get to pick and choose what features you actually need. i don't have all of them in yet though 2011-03-09T23:52:26 and maybe expand it if needed 2011-03-09T23:53:02 McLeopold: not all of those are directly applicable to mine :\ 2011-03-09T23:54:27 there's also at least one redundancy i noticed off the bat. "finish turn" and "update" should probably just be one function call 2011-03-09T23:54:38 at least, i can't think of any reason for them to be separate 2011-03-09T23:55:18 my library separates them only in that they are provided by two different monads, but in the end they get called at the same time anyway if you are using both monads (most people will) 2011-03-09T23:57:15 McLeopold: are we wanting the starters to track water at all? i don't see anything like that mentioned on the wiki page 2011-03-09T23:57:39