2011-03-28T00:04:02 *** phirenz has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2011-03-28T00:50:59 *** fmeyer has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2011-03-28T00:59:51 ergh 2011-03-28T01:00:04 i hate stupid c++ errors 2011-03-28T01:00:20 it's crashing when i basically call "oss << 1" where oss is an ostringstream :\ 2011-03-28T01:04:32 *** McLeopold has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T01:04:40 any lispers about? 2011-03-28T01:10:36 it's better to just ask your question :P 2011-03-28T01:12:18 spacebat: ^^? :P 2011-03-28T01:20:16 I did on the lisp channel, no joy 2011-03-28T01:20:32 How do I prevent line buffering when running my program? 2011-03-28T01:20:48 If I do, does it become non portable? 2011-03-28T01:50:43 *** iFire has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-03-28T01:50:57 *** iFire has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T01:54:36 *** Zannick has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2011-03-28T01:54:41 *** Zannick has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T02:04:27 yay 2011-03-28T02:04:51 pure iterated elimination of strictly dominated pure strategies is working for general n-player games 2011-03-28T02:13:29 antimatroid: in your gcd function, why do you do the min/max stuff? 2011-03-28T02:13:52 sigh: not sure, i think it mattered ? :\ 2011-03-28T02:14:11 either way, you have min and max the wrong way around and the first iteration always just swaps a and b 2011-03-28T02:15:41 *** Stocha has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T02:17:30 *** Stocha has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-03-28T02:22:43 sigh: :P 2011-03-28T02:40:44 *** sigh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-03-28T02:55:10 *** stride has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2011-03-28T02:59:44 *** ltriant has quit IRC (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep) 2011-03-28T03:02:32 *** stride has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T03:15:46 *** stride has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-03-28T03:17:25 *** amstan_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-03-28T03:17:34 *** amstan_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T03:17:34 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan_ 2011-03-28T03:26:15 *** stride has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T03:34:21 *** boegel has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T03:35:26 *** closedbracket has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-03-28T03:37:09 *** phirenz has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T03:43:11 *** McLeopold has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2011-03-28T03:50:36 is there a way to make an iterator the increment of another one without incrementing the first one? 2011-03-28T03:51:41 hmm, it_j = (++it_i)--; seems to work, anyone got something better? 2011-03-28T03:51:47 it requires the brackets 2011-03-28T03:53:36 *** delt0r___ has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T03:53:38 http://pastebin.com/NDn1RCK4 see line 28 2011-03-28T03:54:28 *** delt0r_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2011-03-28T04:05:28 *** silenthunter has quit IRC () 2011-03-28T04:05:34 *** silenthunter has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T04:07:09 *** Stocha has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T04:08:44 *** Stocha has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-03-28T04:44:00 *** namina has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T04:44:12 hey... 2011-03-28T04:44:28 anyone know if the visualizer needs anything special to get working? 2011-03-28T04:44:41 *** Eruonen has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T04:45:27 after running the playonce.cmd I checked the output in viewer/0.replay 2011-03-28T04:46:12 then changed the format a little and pasted into the visualizer but it says Number of orders does not match life span. 2011-03-28T04:54:54 *** woudshoo has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T04:57:07 *** namina has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-03-28T05:11:49 McLeopold: ^ 2011-03-28T05:12:29 I didn't realize that bug was still in there. 2011-03-28T05:13:06 sigh: Can you probably fix that? 2011-03-28T05:13:26 oh they are both disconnected -.- 2011-03-28T05:13:35 *** Stocha has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T05:24:06 :P 2011-03-28T05:32:37 *** woudshoo has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-03-28T06:14:08 *** Stocha has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T06:21:45 *** Stocha has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-03-28T06:25:31 *** namina has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T06:26:26 :animatroid were you talking about a bug in the visualizer? 2011-03-28T06:29:33 animatroid: ? 2011-03-28T06:30:02 antimatroid: can't type 2011-03-28T06:32:39 Frontier: is there a bug with the visualizer? 2011-03-28T06:36:03 namina: Yes, there is a bug that I want someone to have a look at. 2011-03-28T06:36:52 *** namina has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-03-28T06:41:03 *** namina has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T06:41:14 Frontier: ok, is there a quick-fix for it? 2011-03-28T06:41:21 no 2011-03-28T06:41:59 well, you can use the .stream file with the viewer in ants/viewer 2011-03-28T06:42:28 yea, couldn't get that working either... nothing happens when i click start... 2011-03-28T06:43:07 i might have a look at the vis code and see if I can work something out 2011-03-28T06:53:00 *** namina has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-03-28T07:16:09 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T07:26:41 *** namina has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T07:27:24 hmmm... commenting out the exception line works but makes the map rather small... 2011-03-28T07:28:21 sigh: any ideas on the Number of orders does not match life span. error in visualizer? 2011-03-28T07:28:54 what's happening? 2011-03-28T07:29:52 when i load a replay file with the js interface, I get "Number of orders does not match life span." 2011-03-28T07:30:35 Frontier: you there? 2011-03-28T07:30:54 namina: can you pastebin the replay file 2011-03-28T07:31:10 *** pyro- has left #aichallenge 2011-03-28T07:31:23 brb 2011-03-28T07:34:27 *** namina has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-03-28T07:36:34 *** namina has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T07:37:04 sorry, on a train so internet is bad... 2011-03-28T07:41:25 *** namina has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-03-28T07:42:38 *** namina has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T07:42:53 right, here's what im pasting in: http://pastebin.com/zMG3SWJt 2011-03-28T07:44:19 *** Stocha has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T07:44:53 *** namina has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-03-28T07:45:17 *** needsch has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T07:45:20 *** namina has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T07:45:38 *** needsch1 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T07:45:44 and here's the original file: http://pastebin.com/AJt7Zc6E 2011-03-28T07:46:13 do you know which line it is complaining about? 2011-03-28T07:47:09 yea, replay.js: 252 2011-03-28T07:47:20 i'll get the output 2011-03-28T07:48:18 here's the output on the page: http://pastebin.com/P4PNSzSG 2011-03-28T07:49:15 *** needsch has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-03-28T07:51:24 hmm... yeah, that line is not right... I don't think it's the visualiser's fault 2011-03-28T07:52:33 what bots were these? the ones from play_one_game.sh? 2011-03-28T07:53:20 yep 2011-03-28T07:54:31 just copied used default settings 2011-03-28T07:55:29 as i said, commenting that line out works but makes the map very small 2011-03-28T07:56:20 I haven't actually used the new visualiser that much, so I'm not sure why that would be :) 2011-03-28T07:57:17 Frontier said I could use viewer on the stream file but I can't get that to work either, it doesn't do anything when I click start... 2011-03-28T07:57:21 *** Stocha has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-03-28T07:58:16 any trick I'm missing there? 2011-03-28T08:01:58 namina: I think it's a problem with the engine 2011-03-28T08:02:16 and I think I can reproduce it... so I'll have a look into it 2011-03-28T08:02:32 ah, ok 2011-03-28T08:03:13 great. thanks 2011-03-28T08:11:51 *** namina has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-03-28T08:17:34 aichallenge: sigh epsilon * re417643 / (ants/util/battle_sim.py ants/battle_sim.py): Moved battle_sim script into util directory - http://bit.ly/gEC3pS 2011-03-28T08:17:36 aichallenge: sigh epsilon * rfc50bec / ants/ants.py : 2011-03-28T08:17:36 aichallenge: Ensure ant data is update properly when an ant is killed via conflict. 2011-03-28T08:17:36 aichallenge: This was causing incorrect output in the visualiser. - http://bit.ly/dWjIGu 2011-03-28T08:19:40 *** AndroUser has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T08:21:31 @later tell namina it should be fixed now, thanks for letting us know about the bug 2011-03-28T08:21:31 sigh: Ready to serve. 2011-03-28T08:22:03 sigh: is that working now then? 2011-03-28T08:22:21 Sorry, namina here 2011-03-28T08:22:25 should be :) 2011-03-28T08:22:54 Great :) 2011-03-28T08:23:48 *** AndroUser is now known as Namina 2011-03-28T08:46:11 *** Mathnerd314 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-03-28T08:46:57 *** Namina has quit IRC (Quit: AndroIRC) 2011-03-28T08:46:58 *** mceier has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T08:50:18 *** namina has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T09:11:08 *** amstan_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-03-28T09:11:10 *** amstan__ has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T09:11:10 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan__ 2011-03-28T09:12:23 aichallenge: sigh epsilon * r6fea7da / ants/ants.py : Generalise get_vision so that other places can use the offset cache. - http://bit.ly/eflhk7 2011-03-28T09:12:26 aichallenge: sigh epsilon * r431fcf2 / ants/ants.py : Change arguments to nearby_ants to match the way it is used now - http://bit.ly/fHYrsB 2011-03-28T09:12:28 aichallenge: sigh epsilon * r2428c54 / ants/ants.py : Fix bugs in neighbourhood_offsets - http://bit.ly/eN5uHm 2011-03-28T09:12:30 aichallenge: sigh epsilon * r10f77e9 / ants/ants.py : nearby_ants now uses neighbourhood_offsets - http://bit.ly/dXJ4Dk 2011-03-28T09:17:19 *** amstan__ has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-03-28T09:17:32 *** needsch1 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2011-03-28T09:20:16 aichallenge: sigh epsilon * rf1b32e4 / ants/ants.py : Make do_spawn logic clearer - http://bit.ly/glaSQz 2011-03-28T09:24:35 *** namina has quit IRC (Quit: AndroIRC) 2011-03-28T09:29:34 *** namina has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T09:29:44 *** sigh has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-03-28T09:52:23 probably being stupid but just switch to a linux box 2011-03-28T09:52:34 now when i run play_one_game.sh 2011-03-28T09:52:56 I get syntax error on line 125 playgame.py 2011-03-28T09:53:04 its 'print result' 2011-03-28T09:53:25 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T09:53:25 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2011-03-28T09:55:00 *** Stocha has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T09:57:02 *** Stocha has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-03-28T09:58:02 contestbot: later tell antimatroid can you help pyro to familiarize himself with the tools? https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge/issues#issue/12 2011-03-28T09:58:02 amstan: Ready to serve, my lord. 2011-03-28T09:58:23 what version of python should i be using? 2011-03-28T09:58:41 *** woudshoo has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T10:02:02 namina: according to https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge/issues#issue/3 it's Python 2.6.6 (r266:84292, Sep 15 2010, 16:22:56) 2011-03-28T10:04:14 cool. thanks 2011-03-28T10:06:19 namina, try launching it with python2 instead of just python 2011-03-28T10:08:26 *** Frontier1 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T10:09:42 *** Frontier has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-03-28T10:10:03 namina: oh.. you have python3 installed? yeah.. python3 is not backwards compatible with 2 2011-03-28T10:10:09 run it with python2 2011-03-28T10:10:20 yep, that was the issue 2011-03-28T10:14:39 *** FireFly has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T10:18:04 *** amstan has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-03-28T10:34:05 *** boegel has quit IRC (Quit: *poof!*) 2011-03-28T10:40:58 *** UncleVasya has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T10:57:37 why are the directions shuffled in hunterbot? 2011-03-28T11:12:33 *** Naktibalda has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T11:22:05 *** Stocha has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T11:27:55 *** Stocha has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-03-28T11:30:57 *** Stocha has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T11:31:20 i think the fact that google was sponsor was of big help in getting the challenge sucessful 2011-03-28T11:31:52 also it being "free for all with no money involved" is interesting. 2011-03-28T11:32:18 Reading the wiki i saw that the team is looking for sponsor and money. 2011-03-28T11:32:39 or is the money intended for covering the costs of the servers and such only ? 2011-03-28T11:32:41 *** Eruonen has quit IRC () 2011-03-28T11:35:16 the five minute starting guide is buggy. It says submissions are closed :p 2011-03-28T11:36:10 I there any official entry in the wiki about how to test a bot ? 2011-03-28T11:36:38 say against one of the starter bot. Or to test two starte bots against one another. 2011-03-28T11:36:59 *** needsch has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T11:43:16 don't think so, not for ants anyway, not too hard though... 2011-03-28T11:43:35 just clone the repo and run play_one_game.sh 2011-03-28T11:46:09 So the main skill will be "clone the repo" then. 2011-03-28T11:46:46 i should try to do that. 2011-03-28T11:47:44 Stocha: Don't even need to do that. If you go to the github page there's a download button top right 2011-03-28T11:47:58 click that and it should give you a zip of all the code 2011-03-28T11:48:11 extract that somewhere and you're sorted 2011-03-28T11:48:46 okay 2011-03-28T11:48:52 should i install python or something ? 2011-03-28T11:50:21 yep. Are you on windows or linux? 2011-03-28T11:51:18 macos i think 2011-03-28T11:51:22 on my laptop 2011-03-28T11:51:26 and debian on my server 2011-03-28T11:51:30 i think 2011-03-28T11:51:45 at the moment i'm trying on my laptop 2011-03-28T11:51:51 the server has no screen 2011-03-28T11:52:03 no keyboard, a no whatsoever 2011-03-28T11:52:33 i'll try to google how to python under macos 2011-03-28T11:52:41 ok, just try it on your laptop first. I think macs already have python installed... 2011-03-28T11:52:45 but i think i've seen there were version issues also 2011-03-28T11:52:52 oh does it 2011-03-28T11:52:59 ok, go to a terminal in mac 2011-03-28T11:53:06 and do 'python' 2011-03-28T11:53:12 what version does it say 2011-03-28T11:53:50 *** delt0r_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T11:55:01 brb 2011-03-28T11:55:03 *** delt0r___ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-03-28T11:55:57 2.6.1 2011-03-28T11:57:18 i think it sort of worked 2011-03-28T11:57:31 ahhh ffs 2011-03-28T11:57:39 i wish i knew where the game is 2011-03-28T11:57:50 they want to bring those backscatter machines to australian airports now 2011-03-28T11:57:57 didn't see that one coming /s 2011-03-28T11:58:03 uh ? 2011-03-28T11:58:28 where is a game output by playonegame.sh ? 2011-03-28T11:58:57 in viewer/0.replay 2011-03-28T11:59:01 ah okay 2011-03-28T11:59:06 i just found 2011-03-28T11:59:25 you need to copy and paste that into visualizer/offine.html 2011-03-28T11:59:55 antimatroid: optional or compulsary? 2011-03-28T12:00:24 namina: doesn't seem to be much info available, but it's kind of even more pointless if it's optional 2011-03-28T12:00:36 where is offline.html ? :p 2011-03-28T12:01:01 in the visualizer folder 2011-03-28T12:01:09 Stocha: this is intended to be much simpler once the contest is live, we're not going to expect all competitors to jump through these hoops 2011-03-28T12:01:53 just the ones that want to get a head start... 2011-03-28T12:01:59 :) 2011-03-28T12:02:50 antimatroid: how's the visualizer going to work? 2011-03-28T12:02:58 is it always going to be copy and paste? 2011-03-28T12:03:02 don't ask me that :P 2011-03-28T12:03:14 no, it should just run with the engine eventually 2011-03-28T12:03:34 yea, seems sensible 2011-03-28T12:03:36 you should be able to run the engine passing it arguments for the bots and visualiser 2011-03-28T12:03:49 (and map and parameters) 2011-03-28T12:03:57 presumably the java version though 2011-03-28T12:04:33 although i personally wouldn't be opposed to a .sh or .bat file doing that for people, then expecting htem to be able to edit that 2011-03-28T12:04:43 i can't visualize anything yet :p 2011-03-28T12:04:56 Stocha: what's happening? 2011-03-28T12:05:22 nohting literrally 2011-03-28T12:05:48 i clicked the "load text below" 2011-03-28T12:05:52 maybe that was wrong ? 2011-03-28T12:06:02 nope that's right. 2011-03-28T12:06:12 Are you using safari? 2011-03-28T12:06:26 yes i am 2011-03-28T12:06:30 haven't tried it in safari... maybe firefox or chrome would work 2011-03-28T12:06:57 i have no errors that i can spot or whatever 2011-03-28T12:07:19 yea, give it a go in another browser and see what happens 2011-03-28T12:07:24 Can we expect something like Galcon Testing Arena in a starterpack? 2011-03-28T12:08:15 UncleVasya: jBotManager? I wish, if someone wants to make it, go ahead, but i've found no one to yet 2011-03-28T12:08:50 i'm going to be a sad panda without live tcp games 2011-03-28T12:09:08 is there going to be an official tcp server? 2011-03-28T12:09:14 that's the current plan 2011-03-28T12:09:41 it would be awesome the have something official like jbotmanager so it was really easy for people to get on tc 2011-03-28T12:09:43 tcp* 2011-03-28T12:09:53 ah i reloaded the .html and then it now works 2011-03-28T12:09:58 what does jbotmanager do? 2011-03-28T12:10:10 it is quite slow though 2011-03-28T12:10:21 naminaa: it let you load your bots, play them against each other, play yourself, or play them on tcp 2011-03-28T12:10:42 hmm.. that would be useful 2011-03-28T12:10:56 is there a way to have it run faster ? 2011-03-28T12:11:06 i'm sure someone will code it up when everything gets going though 2011-03-28T12:11:12 Stocha: is it the visualiser or engine running slow? 2011-03-28T12:11:20 the visualizer i think 2011-03-28T12:11:23 you can use the arrow keys with the visualiser 2011-03-28T12:11:39 that might allow you to skip through games faster, they go at that speed so you can watch what is happening 2011-03-28T12:12:02 okay arrow keys are good 2011-03-28T12:12:28 so now i shoud modify the javabot and try to make it play right ? 2011-03-28T12:12:30 if you use the "arrows" at the bottom, it will animate each individual step and pause before doing battle resolution 2011-03-28T12:12:39 namina: for me the most amazing thing in JBot Manager was drawing lines from the ships to the planets they fly to. 2011-03-28T12:12:40 or maybe just try to make it play first. 2011-03-28T12:13:06 i really liked being able to play my own bot 2011-03-28T12:13:10 that was great for debugging 2011-03-28T12:13:19 and tcp games being live was awesome 2011-03-28T12:13:20 UncleVasya: so you could play as a human? 2011-03-28T12:13:30 namina: yes 2011-03-28T12:13:48 that is cool, although wouldn't be that useful in ants 2011-03-28T12:13:58 it would be useful in ants 2011-03-28T12:14:05 just up the time limit and debug on smaller examples 2011-03-28T12:14:10 true 2011-03-28T12:15:03 delt0r_: how's the free time going? :P everyone loved jBotManager! 2011-03-28T12:15:04 i'll take my two gilrs out into the sunshine then see you 2011-03-28T12:17:30 antimatroid: How come HunterBot shuffles directions to a target? 2011-03-28T12:17:43 namina: ask McLeopold 2011-03-28T12:18:07 i haven't had time to play around with bots, i should update the c++ starter bot at some point 2011-03-28T12:18:28 (i'm trying to keep up at uni while help organise things :P) 2011-03-28T12:18:49 hmmm... I can see my uni work going downhill rapidsly once this gets going 2011-03-28T12:19:20 ha, you should have seen me last semester 2011-03-28T12:19:23 *** Stocha has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-03-28T12:19:40 i was enrolled in 5 units, attending classes for another and spending most of my time on planet wars :P 2011-03-28T12:19:46 haha 2011-03-28T12:20:06 some of my marks weren't very amazing, but only for units that i didn't really care about 2011-03-28T12:20:56 how much time does a unit take up? 2011-03-28T12:21:10 1 unit 2011-03-28T12:21:49 last year it was 3 one hour lectures a tute and assignments 2011-03-28T12:22:08 this year it's just 2 hours of lectures a week, and i only have 3 units per semester with a small thesis to do 2011-03-28T12:22:12 so i'm not as bad off as last year 2011-03-28T12:22:27 i have like less than 1/4 the number or raw classes each week 2011-03-28T12:22:32 yea, same here in the UK. except I'm on 12 units!!! 2011-03-28T12:22:43 12 units in a semester? 2011-03-28T12:22:52 ok, true 2011-03-28T12:22:53 that's like 48 hours of classes each week 2011-03-28T12:22:58 6 per semester 2011-03-28T12:23:02 sorry 2011-03-28T12:23:05 :p 2011-03-28T12:23:16 what uni are you at? and what are you studying? 2011-03-28T12:23:32 Bristol Uni, doing Comp. Sci + Electronics 2011-03-28T12:23:49 you? 2011-03-28T12:24:04 uni of tasmania, just doing maths this year 2011-03-28T12:24:10 yay for unknown unis :P 2011-03-28T12:24:17 haha 2011-03-28T12:24:36 (i did cs, economics and maths for my undergrad) 2011-03-28T12:24:56 ah ok.. Does Aus have same system as US, i.e major 2011-03-28T12:26:48 um, i don't think so 2011-03-28T12:26:59 people in the us seem to do a lot more general classes 2011-03-28T12:27:09 so you pick a degree at the beginning? 2011-03-28T12:27:32 you sort of declare majors after first year, but dependent on your degree you have your first year units pretty much chosen 2011-03-28T12:28:09 so you might do a degree in science/business/economics/arts etc. then pick say 4 majors first year, then drop that back to 2/1 major after a year 2011-03-28T12:28:25 that's quite good 2011-03-28T12:28:39 i would have liked to have a few more options first year 2011-03-28T12:28:49 and we don't go directly from say undergrad to phd here, but most undergrad degrees are also 3 years instead of 4 2011-03-28T12:29:24 but we have what is called an "honours year" which (I think) is basically the fourth year of a us degree, although we often do a small thesis for honours which I'm not sure is there for the fourth year of us undergrad 2011-03-28T12:29:25 yea undergrad is usually 3 here too 2011-03-28T12:29:44 what's the prices like that? 2011-03-28T12:30:10 atm about �3.5k going up to �9k soon 2011-03-28T12:30:35 my undergrad and honours will put me like AU$30k in debt, but it's debt to the government that only goes up with inflation and I never start to pay back unless i earn over like $40k a year, at which point it's a minimal amount of like 4% of my income per year 2011-03-28T12:30:57 pretty much exactly the same as here 2011-03-28T12:32:03 everyone is pretty up in arms about the fee rises here though 2011-03-28T12:32:08 lots of protests etc. 2011-03-28T12:33:35 hmmm. getting a bit worried about the speed of python, when the number of ants gets high these bots are slowing down a lot... 2011-03-28T12:38:24 yeah, don't use python :P 2011-03-28T12:39:00 c++ <3 2011-03-28T12:39:12 although i'm seriously contemplating just taking the plunge and trying to do it in haskell 2011-03-28T12:39:23 mmm, I know but I hate c++, I don't really want to do it in c 2011-03-28T12:39:29 and I want to learn python 2011-03-28T12:39:39 so I'm just going to have to optimise lots 2011-03-28T12:39:41 what's to hate about c++ other than templates and not being able to overload operator precedence? 2011-03-28T12:40:26 irrational hatred, stems from dealing with lots of awful code a while ago 2011-03-28T12:40:39 ah, i have an irrational hatred of java 2011-03-28T12:40:43 i refuse to touch it 2011-03-28T12:41:03 yea, i used to have that too. Got over when they made me use it at uni though 2011-03-28T12:42:03 my other option is learning lisp 2011-03-28T12:42:05 :p 2011-03-28T12:42:20 not a bad option :P 2011-03-28T12:42:33 btw Haskell is horrible 2011-03-28T12:42:56 really clever but horrible 2011-03-28T12:43:07 i haven't really liked some of the syntax yet, but i like the generality 2011-03-28T12:43:20 well, i have really liked some of the syntax 2011-03-28T12:43:24 but some bits have bugged me 2011-03-28T12:44:12 D sounds more like my perfect language, but people keep saying it has bugs 2011-03-28T12:45:56 hmmm. tbh I haven't really tried to learn it properly, just did a couple of small projects... took a while to get my head around 2011-03-28T12:47:45 yeah, it's a beast to understand 2011-03-28T12:47:56 I really like the idea of lisp at the moment, just wish it wasn't so fragmented 2011-03-28T12:51:21 janzert: you about? 2011-03-28T12:51:35 a bit 2011-03-28T12:51:40 have you ever considered treating arimaa as a kind of graph game rather than tree? 2011-03-28T12:51:56 antimatroid: here's a summary of what's not to like about C++: http://yosefk.com/c++fqa/defective.html 2011-03-28T12:52:27 technically with a transposition table it is being treated as a graph ;) 2011-03-28T12:54:11 but I'm sure I don't really know what you mean 2011-03-28T12:54:47 I never build an actual tree or graph anywhere 2011-03-28T12:55:55 well, the "game graph" would have decision nodes and terminal nodes, but you don't require it to be a tree, so if you do a move and undo it the next turn (same as them, getting back to the same state) you go back to the same node rather than a new node 2 layers down in a tree 2011-03-28T12:56:14 you lose perfect recall, but that doesn't matter? 2011-03-28T12:56:47 a TT would pick up that case 2011-03-28T12:57:19 that would be the best way to treat those games when thinking generally though yeah? 2011-03-28T12:57:31 of course you actually do have to be careful because if you treat it the same you are ignoring the repetition rule 2011-03-28T12:57:33 and for tron, tic tac toe etc. the dag games i had the other day? 2011-03-28T12:57:55 i didn't know of the repitition rule, that breaks that 2011-03-28T12:58:12 although one could just heavily weight against repitition 2011-03-28T12:58:13 3rd repetition is an illegal move 2011-03-28T12:58:50 many bots just ignore that in the search search 2011-03-28T12:59:21 but it can cause problems with missing forced wins especially in some end games 2011-03-28T13:02:11 *** p4p4p5 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T13:05:29 wow, arimaa looks complex 2011-03-28T13:07:23 oh i just had the best game idea, i call it tronants 2011-03-28T13:07:57 multiplayer tron, but you can move any of your "walls" like it's an ant each turn, with the same battle options from ants, just no food, you spawn by moving your ants 2011-03-28T13:08:18 *** McLeopold has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T13:08:53 McLeopold: tronants: multiplayer tron, but you can move any of your "walls" like it's an ant each turn, with the same battle options from ants, just no food, you spawn by moving your ants 2011-03-28T13:09:31 you could make it that you HAVE to move all of your ants each turn 2011-03-28T13:15:49 someone talked about a similar variation before, but you could only move out from one section of wall per turn. So closer to tron but there was no special "end" of your wall that always moved. 2011-03-28T13:16:21 that would be cool too 2011-03-28T13:35:31 antimatroid: It not going to happen this time round. I have resident permits, job applications, work, and a daughter to kick out of home 2011-03-28T13:35:47 I'm swamped 2011-03-28T13:35:57 Oh and conferences 2011-03-28T13:36:03 and the odd party 2011-03-28T13:36:09 quite a lot of partys 2011-03-28T13:40:46 delt0r_: yeah that's fine, people were just talking about it so thought i'd prod you :P 2011-03-28T13:40:53 i'll stop doing that now 2011-03-28T13:43:13 its no problem 2011-03-28T13:43:32 hows the prep for the comp coming along? 2011-03-28T13:44:01 *** namina has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-03-28T13:46:36 *** FireFly has quit IRC (Quit: swatted to death) 2011-03-28T13:46:45 *** track has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T13:47:55 *** namina has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T13:54:14 *** track has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-03-28T13:54:16 *** Eruonen has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T13:55:34 *** avocado is now known as nullren 2011-03-28T13:58:47 delt0r_: it's getting there slowly (sorry was programming) 2011-03-28T13:59:20 *** nullren has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2011-03-28T14:13:43 *** Stocha has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-28T14:15:53 *** needsch has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2011-03-28T14:18:04 *** phirenz has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2011-03-28T14:18:37 *** needsch