2011-03-31T00:05:31 *** iFire has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-03-31T00:08:48 *** iFire has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T00:17:29 *** chris__0076 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T00:19:38 *** Chris_0076 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-03-31T00:26:14 *** iFire has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-03-31T00:33:28 *** iFire has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T01:09:30 *** woudshoo has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T01:47:23 *** McLeopold has left #aichallenge 2011-03-31T01:59:10 *** Stocha has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T02:00:14 *** Stocha has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-03-31T02:08:08 *** chris___0076 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T02:10:57 *** chris__0076 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-03-31T02:14:38 *** dr- has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2011-03-31T02:14:48 *** woudshoo has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) 2011-03-31T09:14:23 *** contestbot has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T09:14:24 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o contestbot 2011-03-31T09:17:26 *** amstan_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T09:25:40 *** amstan has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-03-31T09:47:42 oh, your back contestbot 2011-03-31T09:51:55 *** p4p4p5 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection timed out) 2011-03-31T09:54:16 *** p4p4p5 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T10:04:55 *** Eruonen has quit IRC () 2011-03-31T10:10:24 *** Eruonen has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T10:16:39 *** sigh has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-03-31T10:26:55 is that supposed to happen ? crashing the engine with an illegal move ? Have you submitted the case ? 2011-03-31T10:32:26 sigh already fixed it 2011-03-31T10:35:47 *** boegel has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2011-03-31T10:48:47 *** aerique has quit IRC (Quit: ...) 2011-03-31T11:00:18 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T11:07:03 can you tell more about what you are (trying to) doing ? 2011-03-31T11:11:11 *** p4p4p5 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection timed out) 2011-03-31T11:11:57 *** p4p4p4 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T11:12:19 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Quit: bhasker) 2011-03-31T11:12:24 longterm or shortterm 2011-03-31T11:12:28 ? 2011-03-31T11:12:46 let's begin with shortterm :) 2011-03-31T11:13:58 right now I'm implementing A* 2011-03-31T11:14:08 at about the rate of 1 line of code per hour 2011-03-31T11:15:05 which will prevent my bot from sending illegal moves 2011-03-31T11:16:38 A* ? can i find it in wikipedia ? 2011-03-31T11:17:05 yeah 2011-03-31T11:17:19 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A*_search_algorithm 2011-03-31T11:17:29 thx 2011-03-31T11:19:18 where will you put the nodes ? on every squares ? 2011-03-31T11:19:44 how efficient will all that be with 100 ants ? 2011-03-31T11:20:16 yeah, make each square a node, with edges connecting it to the 4 adjacent squares 2011-03-31T11:20:31 you'll tell us about the perf then :p 2011-03-31T11:20:35 This is a good tutorial for understanding it: http://www.policyalmanac.org/games/aStarTutorial.htm 2011-03-31T11:20:44 i'm curious to compare that with the naive approach i used. 2011-03-31T11:20:57 did you do a flood fill? 2011-03-31T11:24:13 yeah 2011-03-31T11:24:14 *** Accoun has quit IRC () 2011-03-31T11:24:20 i do more than one actually 2011-03-31T11:24:30 i do plenty of them. like 3 per ant. 2011-03-31T11:24:35 only for food gathering. 2011-03-31T11:24:58 although my food gathering is still lacking it seems. I'll have to work more on that. It's really hard to do efficiently :p 2011-03-31T11:25:28 but the flood fill is quite fast i should say. Well i didn't do any timing or anything yet. But i mean, my bots play fast :p 2011-03-31T11:26:01 I'll do some timing hopefully. 2011-03-31T11:26:16 java is quite fast. 2011-03-31T11:28:24 flood fill is pretty good over a short distance 2011-03-31T11:29:43 and I wouldn't be supprised if it keeps up with A* 2011-03-31T11:29:55 *** mceier has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T11:31:16 Long term, my plan is to have a lot of independent "modules" that output lists of tasks 2011-03-31T11:31:17 phire, stocha: I am planning to go with flood fill, at the moment I did it the easy way, generating all ant x food combinations and sort them on distance and walk in the right direction (so my ants get stuck). But it stayed fast enough for > 500 ants 2011-03-31T11:31:54 like an economics modules that tasks for each food square 2011-03-31T11:32:24 then I would have a scheduler that assigns tasks to ants based on distance and priority 2011-03-31T11:32:30 mine is good for reasonable map size. 2011-03-31T11:32:42 I go for closest ant go to closest food first. 2011-03-31T11:33:01 It works good. (you may have seen the animations on the forum :p ) 2011-03-31T11:33:09 But not close to good enough i guess. 2011-03-31T11:33:34 And flood fill is not very flexible. it's good for brute forcing some prototype though :p 2011-03-31T11:34:22 resonable map size being like up to 120x120. I have no idea what real map size will be. 2011-03-31T11:34:49 yeah, thats why I chose A*, its very flexible 2011-03-31T11:35:44 you can increase the cost of squares near the wall, so that the ants will avoid the walls when possible 2011-03-31T11:36:40 *** Eruonen has quit IRC () 2011-03-31T11:36:43 phire: I am just curious, but as far as I can tell, A* has the drawback that you need to know from where to where you have to good. I was more thinking like a tweaked floodfill, starting from all the know food locations at the same time. 2011-03-31T11:37:09 that's what i do :p 2011-03-31T11:37:32 i start from all food, then find the closest ant. And i go until all food have been assigned an ant. 2011-03-31T11:37:44 although it's no state. i do it each turn at the moment. 2011-03-31T11:38:09 Anyway new food tend to appear every turn :p 2011-03-31T11:38:21 or to disapear (when ennmy chop it off) 2011-03-31T11:38:35 i have to goo, i'll see your comment on contestbot log :p 2011-03-31T11:38:51 *** Stocha has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-03-31T11:39:08 woudshoo, if you remove the heuristic, it will act a lot like a flood fill. 2011-03-31T11:40:34 phire: Yes, but what put me on the wrong food is that without a heuristic I don't think about it as A* 2011-03-31T11:41:34 The interesting bit with food gathering will be the greedy approach vs a more global optimal approach. That last bit seems quit hard. 2011-03-31T11:41:36 no, it degrades into Dijkstra's algorithm 2011-03-31T11:42:12 *** p4p4p4 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection timed out) 2011-03-31T11:43:27 I think the key is going to be to divide the game up into stages. 2011-03-31T11:44:03 in the early stages, I think the gready food gathering algorithm is close to optimum 2011-03-31T11:44:18 *** namina has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T11:45:28 *** p4p4p4 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T11:45:58 Hm, multiple stages, was not planning on doing that. My gut feeling tells me that aggresively getting food stays important all the time, but hopefully after a while your density of ants is such that you don't need all ants for food gathering, the remainder should be fighter ants. 2011-03-31T11:46:55 I think greedy is close to optimal, but I am fearing that in the end the good bots will win or fail in their reproduction rate. 2011-03-31T11:47:28 Thirdly, the food bonus is a bit odd, if at the end you are winning, you might want to not eat food, because they will be converted into points, ants don't count. 2011-03-31T11:49:49 the food bonus rule is under debate 2011-03-31T11:50:16 and I don't really think its going to come into effect in a lot of games 2011-03-31T11:51:03 the interesting thing is, any ant alive at the end of the game is wasted 2011-03-31T11:52:10 Hopefully not, also, I found it already quite hard to find a strategy to kill a enemy ant reliably without losing one of your own. 2011-03-31T11:52:55 which battle resolution are you using in testing? 2011-03-31T11:53:04 Also with multiple players you can still win even if you lose against each opponent individually 2011-03-31T11:53:46 The battly resolution with: 1 ant deals 1 point of damage evenly, ant dies if it receive >= 1 point of damage 2011-03-31T11:54:28 yeah, that one 2011-03-31T11:56:18 I think the goal will be to aim to loose less ants than the enemy 2011-03-31T11:56:21 rather than none 2011-03-31T11:56:58 *** delt0r___ has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T11:57:47 You are right, but for fun, I was trying if I could ensure a win with 3 against 1, and I don't think I succeeded, with 6 against 1 and a wall, I can. 2011-03-31T11:58:04 *** McLeopold has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T11:58:20 *** delt0r_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-03-31T11:59:08 Well, I have to go unfortunately 2011-03-31T11:59:26 I think that there is going to be a place for learning AIs in this challenge, just around predicting the enemy battle tactics 2011-03-31T11:59:27 cya 2011-03-31T12:03:14 *** woudshoo has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) 2011-03-31T12:07:40 *** antimatroid has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-03-31T12:19:34 *** p4p4p4 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection timed out) 2011-03-31T12:21:22 *** p4p4p4 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T12:21:23 *** antimatroid has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T12:42:38 *** janzert has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-03-31T12:43:57 *** janzert has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T12:53:59 *** janzert has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-03-31T12:55:23 *** janzert has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T12:57:57 *** Naktibalda has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110319135224]) 2011-03-31T12:58:51 *** boegel has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T13:13:07 *** nivardus has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T13:19:24 *** choas has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T13:22:25 *** mceier has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-03-31T13:24:07 *** mceier has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T13:27:36 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T13:35:39 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-03-31T13:37:32 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T13:40:55 *** Stocha has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T13:42:02 *** p4p4p4 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection timed out) 2011-03-31T13:43:05 *** p4p4p5 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T13:45:40 @later tell phire Optimal food gathering is tremendously important in the early stage of the game. At least with the random map i use. I think (no hard evidences, because i never went beyond greedy at this point) 2011-03-31T13:45:40 Stocha: Ready to serve. 2011-03-31T13:48:25 *** needsch has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2011-03-31T13:55:41 *** boegel has quit IRC (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2011-03-31T14:00:54 Stocha, I agree 2011-03-31T14:01:26 but I'm pretty sure at some point you are going to have to transition to a new strategy 2011-03-31T14:02:08 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T14:02:34 when the food in your area dries out, you should probally be spreading a few of you ants out to try and be as close as possible to new food 2011-03-31T14:02:56 while the bulk of your ants focus on defending or attacking 2011-03-31T14:05:55 *** Eruonen has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T14:10:19 *** p4p4p5 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection timed out) 2011-03-31T14:11:11 *** p4p4p5 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T14:15:54 *** Accoun has quit IRC () 2011-03-31T14:18:34 *** Frontier1 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T14:18:52 i think you need to have a look to my ant simulator phire :p 2011-03-31T14:19:55 *** Frontier has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2011-03-31T14:20:17 http://ns368394.ovh.net/stocha/x80Fh02_2vsFh02_r6x/ 2011-03-31T14:20:25 mggn 2011-03-31T14:20:33 wrong link 2011-03-31T14:20:57 http://ns368394.ovh.net/stocha/x80Fh02_2vsFh02_r6x1/ 2011-03-31T14:21:21 here this one works 2011-03-31T14:22:42 on the newest version you can stop and step by step through a game. But this is some older version it seems. 2011-03-31T14:22:54 *** boegel has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T14:23:09 i never tested my newest bot. Because i was confident they would do badly :p 2011-03-31T14:23:48 the one you can see in the link is probably what i would call medium strength 2011-03-31T14:24:04 are both bots the same ai? 2011-03-31T14:24:16 ìn this yes 2011-03-31T14:24:30 well not 100% the same 2011-03-31T14:24:39 the Fh02_2 is slightly stronger 2011-03-31T14:24:50 but you wouldn't see by mere looking at the game 2011-03-31T14:25:05 Stocha: is that jnlp? 2011-03-31T14:25:12 o 2011-03-31T14:25:16 applet 2011-03-31T14:26:31 if you want, i'll take the time to post some stuff with the step by step option. But that still gives some feeling of the game 2011-03-31T14:28:07 looking at that 2011-03-31T14:28:15 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T14:28:17 *** needsch has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T14:28:32 I think the map will effect the optimum strategy a lot. 2011-03-31T14:28:38 looking at games step by step, you soon realize that greedy is simply not good enough at the start of the game in the begining 2011-03-31T14:28:58 Yeah, the map really happens to affect the game and bot strength 2011-03-31T14:29:14 you can get big cut off in dev, if you know the map size and settings. 2011-03-31T14:29:27 *** Accoun has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-03-31T14:29:27 some stuff might be totally irrelevant for some maps. 2011-03-31T14:31:20 I've been doing most of my strategy planning based on the assumption of huge arena style maps 2011-03-31T14:33:42 *** Chris_0076 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T14:34:20 with a map like that, you are going to need to focus on the size of the grouping and continuous map coverage 2011-03-31T14:37:32 send me some map gen spec if you wish 2011-03-31T14:37:55 if simple :p 2011-03-31T14:38:52 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T14:41:32 *** p4p4p5 has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [SeaMonkey 2.0a3/20090223135443]) 2011-03-31T14:42:48 try the same algrothem, but with a much lower amount of water 2011-03-31T14:42:59 maybe 5-20% 2011-03-31T14:43:16 ill try to post in like 12 hours 2011-03-31T14:43:20 anyway, I must sleep 2011-03-31T14:43:24 night 2011-03-31T14:43:31 where are you ? 2011-03-31T14:43:40 *** Accoun has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-03-31T14:44:03 somewhere where the sun is just starting to rise 2011-03-31T14:45:22 I'm not good at synchronising my sleeping patterns with daylight. 2011-03-31T14:48:24 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T14:53:33 here the sun is going down :p 2011-03-31T14:57:45 *** woudshoo has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T15:00:48 hi there 2011-03-31T15:00:48 *** Chris_0076 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2011-03-31T15:01:06 *** Accoun has quit IRC () 2011-03-31T15:04:34 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T15:04:57 *** iFire has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-03-31T15:06:28 *** Accoun has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-03-31T15:06:52 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T15:08:11 *** iFire has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T15:08:48 *** Accoun has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-03-31T15:10:42 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T15:12:31 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T15:15:06 *** Accoun has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-03-31T15:15:29 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T15:16:10 *** Accoun has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-03-31T15:16:11 *** iFire has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-03-31T15:18:18 Hi did anyone get the visualize_lcoally working? I always get the error Unable to parse JSON string, but it looks like valid JSON to me 2011-03-31T15:18:53 *** _flag <_flag!~flag@69-165-173-172.dsl.teksavvy.com> has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T15:19:58 *** iFire has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T15:26:41 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T15:28:29 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T15:29:44 *** iFire` has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T15:29:52 *** iFire has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-03-31T15:31:55 *** phire has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2011-03-31T15:32:39 @later tell phire http://ns368394.ovh.net/stocha/x80Fh02_2vsFh02_r6x1_80percentMap/ 2011-03-31T15:32:39 Stocha: OK 2011-03-31T15:33:13 @later tell phire you have to hit the run button at the bottom of the window 2011-03-31T15:33:13 Stocha: Job's done. 2011-03-31T15:33:41 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Quit: bhasker) 2011-03-31T15:37:41 *** smellyhippy has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-03-31T15:38:07 *** smellyhippy has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T15:38:07 *** smellyhippy has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T15:57:48 *** delt0r___ has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-03-31T15:58:37 *** delt0r has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T15:59:06 *** woudshoo has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-03-31T16:12:16 *** boegel has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2011-03-31T16:12:50 *** Naktibalda has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T16:15:51 hi 2011-03-31T16:16:01 back to my issues 2011-03-31T16:16:38 command in play_one_game.sh works only if I run it without --verbose 2011-03-31T16:32:08 *** nivardus has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2011-03-31T16:32:15 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T16:40:49 *** Mathnerd314 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T16:47:55 *** Stocha has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-03-31T16:55:03 *** Eruonen has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-03-31T16:57:16 *** Eruonen has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T16:59:01 *** Mathnerd314 has quit IRC 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2011-03-31T18:11:10 *** ltriant has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T18:11:53 *** javagamer has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T18:16:24 *** FireFly has quit IRC (Quit: swatted to death) 2011-03-31T18:19:11 *** Mathnerd314 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-03-31T18:23:04 *** javagamer has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2) 2011-03-31T18:37:49 *** Mathnerd314 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T18:45:25 *** javagamer has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T18:46:17 *** javagamer has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-03-31T18:54:32 *** janzert has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T18:54:56 *** javagamer has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T18:54:59 2 2011-03-31T19:00:03 3 2011-03-31T19:12:00 Please sign here: https://secure.avaaz.org/en/free_iman_al_obeidi/ 2011-03-31T19:13:56 *** CPeng has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-03-31T19:17:08 *** Frontier1 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2011-03-31T19:22:09 *** dlila has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T19:24:51 *** javagamer has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2) 2011-03-31T19:27:01 *** iFire` has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-03-31T19:30:59 *** iFire has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T19:34:58 antimatroid: http://ants.zeroviz.us/BqmlS/ 2011-03-31T19:38:08 *** javagamer has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T19:38:26 *** javagamer has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-03-31T19:39:57 *** javagamer has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T19:40:26 *** javagamer has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-03-31T19:40:52 *** javagamer has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T19:46:14 *** _flag <_flag!~flag@69-165-173-172.dsl.teksavvy.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal) 2011-03-31T19:57:00 *** delt0r_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T19:58:03 *** iFire has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-03-31T19:58:15 *** delt0r has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-03-31T19:59:14 *** javagamer has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-03-31T19:59:39 *** Mathnerd314 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-03-31T19:59:52 *** niemela has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) 2011-03-31T20:01:11 *** iFire has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T20:06:00 *** McLeopold has left #aichallenge 2011-03-31T20:11:06 *** javagamer has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T20:19:09 *** javagamer has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2) 2011-03-31T20:20:14 *** javagamer has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T20:27:19 *** Chris_0076 has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T20:28:01 *** javagamer has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2) 2011-03-31T20:28:47 *** javagamer has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T20:29:47 *** davidjliu has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T20:33:35 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * r5d4c612 / ants/mapgen/McMaps.py : Working on symmetric cell mazes (in progress) - http://bit.ly/hIHyO0 2011-03-31T20:35:45 *** javagamer has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2) 2011-03-31T20:35:59 *** javagamer has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T20:36:31 *** javagamer has joined #aichallenge 2011-03-31T20:43:06 *** needsch has quit 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