2011-04-02T00:05:55  <amstan> contestbot: topic
2011-04-02T00:05:55  <contestbot> amstan: Official Google AI Challenge: http://ai-contest.com/ || Channel Logs: http://contestbot.hypertriangle.com/ || Code Repo: http://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge || The Ants Competition has started! Entries due in 2 weeks! Good luck!
2011-04-02T00:06:02  <amstan> contestbot: topic remove 4
2011-04-02T00:06:02  *** contestbot changes topic to "Official Google AI Challenge: http://ai-contest.com/ || Channel Logs: http://contestbot.hypertriangle.com/ || Code Repo: http://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge"
2011-04-02T00:06:14  <amstan> contestbot: topic add Launch Checklist: https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge/issues/labels/launch
2011-04-02T00:06:14  *** contestbot changes topic to "Official Google AI Challenge: http://ai-contest.com/ || Channel Logs: http://contestbot.hypertriangle.com/ || Code Repo: http://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge || Launch Checklist: https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge/issues/labels/launch"
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2011-04-02T01:18:17  <Stocha> @seen phire
2011-04-02T01:18:17  <contestbot> Stocha: phire was last seen in #aichallenge 7 hours, 17 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: <phire> anyway sleeping
2011-04-02T01:19:23  <Stocha> no more submission then ? they were only yesterday. Is the ant challenge closed now ?
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2011-04-02T05:15:06  <Frontier> The Black Mesa Half-Life 2 mod has been released, but I don't know the answer to the captcha. antimatroid can you help? http://isblackmesareleased.com/releasedate/
2011-04-02T05:16:42  <Frontier> should be ln(2), right?
2011-04-02T05:17:50  <Frontier> wtf? it is an april 1. joke -.-
2011-04-02T05:19:57  <phire> lol
2011-04-02T05:22:31  <phire> yeah, "ln(2)" works
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2011-04-02T05:47:23  <antimatroid> Frontier: :P
2011-04-02T05:47:37  <antimatroid> you don't use the internet today
2011-04-02T05:51:05  <phire> Which reminds me, have you seen this video of Darth Vader playing the Imperial march on the piano? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hqw94Yrsnjs
2011-04-02T05:59:59  <Frontier> i liked the close up in the end the most ^^
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2011-04-02T07:10:45  <sigh> this channel has been quiet the last few days
2011-04-02T07:20:05  <Frontier> sigh: Look out of the window. It is spring.
2011-04-02T07:20:25  <sigh> I'm looking out the window. It is dark.
2011-04-02T07:20:30  <Frontier> well... on the northern hemisphere in europe at least
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2011-04-02T08:08:56  <Naktibalda> do I have to implement starter bot using logic from starter pack guide? I think that HunterBot is a much better example?
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2011-04-02T08:11:23  <sigh> Naktibalda: hunter bot goes in the sample bots folder
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2011-04-02T08:43:10  <stocha> i didn't made much progress lately. True it is spring.
2011-04-02T08:43:25  <stocha> I need the holy grail of ant planning.
2011-04-02T08:44:04  <Frontier> You need to go to the zoo with your family :p
2011-04-02T08:44:11  <stocha> to the zoo ?
2011-04-02T08:44:14  <stocha> why the zoo ?
2011-04-02T08:44:31  <Frontier> zoos are cool
2011-04-02T08:44:45  <stocha> you mean the monkeys are bored, so we could go there and make some grimaces ? :p
2011-04-02T08:45:01  <Frontier> Toss them a banana over the fence :)
2011-04-02T08:45:44  <stocha> When i was 4 a monkey took me by the leg, up into his tree.
2011-04-02T08:45:45  <Frontier> I did that in the Sergengeti park. Only one monkey noticed it. And I think that was his luck ^^
2011-04-02T08:46:06  <Frontier> wtf? where do live that you have apes in your garden?
2011-04-02T08:46:11  <stocha> sergengeti is a big thing isn't it ?
2011-04-02T08:46:22  <stocha> i was in burkina fasso at the time.
2011-04-02T08:46:33  <stocha> in paris i had fewer alike encounters. So far.
2011-04-02T08:46:35  <Frontier> It is really huge, yea. And the animals all run around your car
2011-04-02T08:47:09  <Frontier> What monkeys live in bf that are that tall?
2011-04-02T08:47:18  <stocha> i don't know the event was in burkina fasso, or if we were in a trip to a neighboring country also.
2011-04-02T08:47:25  <phire> <stocha> I need the holy grail of ant planning. <-- Yeah, me too
2011-04-02T08:47:54  <stocha> i have been working on some structure/theory phire. But so far, i didn't made much concrete stuff :p
2011-04-02T08:48:15  <phire> now that I've learned A*, I'm taking the "everything looks like a nail" approach and seeing if I can adapt it to other tasks
2011-04-02T08:48:33  <stocha> I'd like to talk about it. But first nobody would be interested, really. Even my wife is not. really. And then it probably is better to keep some stuff back until the contest end. Maybe.
2011-04-02T08:48:53  <stocha> Maybe A* is good.
2011-04-02T08:49:00  <stocha> i didn't put much though about it.
2011-04-02T08:49:11  <stocha> but ant planning is sure to be something big.
2011-04-02T08:49:14  <phire> yeah, I always over think things
2011-04-02T08:49:33  <stocha> when you go to a food place. Assuming you pop it out at a 1 distance.
2011-04-02T08:49:43  <stocha> you still have two places to go for, in most cases.
2011-04-02T08:49:49  <stocha> that alone troubles me :p
2011-04-02T08:50:08  <phire> A* handles that
2011-04-02T08:50:26  <stocha> There is a huge branching factor in the game. But that probably isn't really usefull to explore all of them.
2011-04-02T08:50:27  <phire> I think
2011-04-02T08:51:03  <phire> I think treating the whole game as a tree is going to be problematic
2011-04-02T08:51:06  <stocha> even if it handles it. The question is : where do you head at. The A solution for food, or the B solution. And what criteria to use. Is it worth the computing cost ?
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2011-04-02T10:59:54  <antimatroid> i'm cleaning up my starter bot..
2011-04-02T11:02:14  <phire> which one was that?
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2011-04-02T11:04:39  <antimatroid> c++
2011-04-02T11:05:11  <phire> I suspect a lot of people will be using that one
2011-04-02T11:07:11  <antimatroid> i hope they like public variables :P
2011-04-02T11:08:02  <antimatroid> otherwise they can write their own accessor functions
2011-04-02T11:08:21  <phire> I just changed my c based bot to use globals instead of passing the same two pointer into every single function
2011-04-02T11:08:38  <antimatroid> have you looked at my c++ one?
2011-04-02T11:08:48  <antimatroid> it was on the wiki a while ago, i think amstan removed it for the moment
2011-04-02T11:09:15  <antimatroid> i was originally using a char map for them, but i might actually throw a grid struct in too
2011-04-02T11:10:44  <phire> I'm looking over it in the git repo now
2011-04-02T11:12:03  <phire> I think its a lot cleaner than the c one
2011-04-02T11:27:44  <McLeopold> phire: what are the two pointers pointing to?
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2011-04-02T11:28:44  <phire> a Struct for keeping track of all the static game info (like map size)
2011-04-02T11:29:04  <phire> and a sturct for keeping track of everything else
2011-04-02T11:31:19  <phire> just about everyone who programs in c these days has been "tainted" by OO programming
2011-04-02T11:33:00  <phire> especially me, I once wrote half a program with struct inheritance before I realised what a stupid idea it was
2011-04-02T11:33:29  <antimatroid> McLeopold: should players be represented as chars or numbers?
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2011-04-02T11:52:30  <antimatroid> my bot now updates vision information for people too
2011-04-02T11:52:55  <phire> cool
2011-04-02T11:54:05  <McLeopold> phire, passing in the structs is more functional
2011-04-02T11:54:19  <phire> hmm, looks like Dijkstra's algrorithm is too slow
2011-04-02T11:54:46  <phire> McLeopold: sure, but in a program where there is no multithreading, I didn'tsee the point
2011-04-02T11:54:50  <McLeopold> antimatroid: players as numbers
2011-04-02T11:55:11  <antimatroid> but we can't support more than 26 players anyway?
2011-04-02T11:55:21  <antimatroid> and one wants to use chars for outputting maps
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2011-04-02T11:55:54  <antimatroid> i have it as that for the moment, but i assume the players will be in [0, 25] when outputting a grid
2011-04-02T11:56:23  <McLeopold> so, you don't want to call parse int?
2011-04-02T11:56:34  <antimatroid> ?
2011-04-02T11:57:08  <McLeopold> phire, functional is for more than multithreading
2011-04-02T11:58:25  <phire> anyone have any experience with Dijkstra's algorithm ? I really didn't expect it to take more than a second to find a single path
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2011-04-02T11:58:44  <McLeopold> it shouldn't
2011-04-02T11:58:56  <McLeopold> what's your map size?
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2011-04-02T11:59:00  <phire> yeah, I have a bug
2011-04-02T11:59:11  <phire> 11133 nodes in the closed set
2011-04-02T11:59:46  <phire> the entire map should be less than 4000
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2011-04-02T12:00:35  <McLeopold> that might not be the best choice of algo, given that all the squares are the same distance and in a grid
2011-04-02T12:00:58  <phire> I had A*, (and it was working)
2011-04-02T12:01:15  <phire> but I want to find the closest ants to each food
2011-04-02T12:01:45  <phire> and a single run of Dijkstra's should be faster than multiple runs of A*
2011-04-02T12:03:21  <antimatroid> phire: use the painting method
2011-04-02T12:04:36  <phire> actually, I think I've worked out a heuristic that will allow me to use A* to find the closest ants
2011-04-02T12:04:37  <antimatroid> if you paint from one square to every other square, marking the distance when you mark a square as visited, you can trace back from an objective square with those numbers to give you a min path back to your source
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2011-04-02T12:05:02  <antimatroid> you can do that from more than one starting location to find min paths to the closest ants
2011-04-02T12:05:27  <antimatroid> simultaneously that is, obviously you could iteratively do it more than once :P
2011-04-02T12:05:47  <phire> ok, looks like my wrapping is broken
2011-04-02T12:06:02  <antimatroid> phire: look at my c++ code for that stuff, it's correct
2011-04-02T12:06:21  <antimatroid> (I have tested it enough to be pretty sure anyway)
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2011-04-02T12:11:49  <phire> I think the optimizer might have it in for me
2011-04-02T12:14:18  <antimatroid> McLeopold: could i propose that the "beginners" tutorial really ought to be written separately for each starter package?
2011-04-02T12:14:25  <antimatroid> then we can do a general more advanced one
2011-04-02T12:14:46  <McLeopold> I don't think I'm the guy to ask about that
2011-04-02T12:14:50  <antimatroid> as the beginners tutorial should really be directing people to parts of the source where they can make a few changes themselves to see an improvement and get a feel for how everything works
2011-04-02T12:14:59  <antimatroid> well, does that sound like a good idea?
2011-04-02T12:15:33  <antimatroid> anyway, i'm going to include such a .txt for mine
2011-04-02T12:15:38  <McLeopold> yes, but it would be nice if the starter bots all conformed to the same spec
2011-04-02T12:15:58  <antimatroid> to what extent though?
2011-04-02T12:16:08  <antimatroid> different languages are going to want to represent things differently
2011-04-02T12:16:25  <antimatroid> it's never going to all end up the same unless some languages starter packages are completely useless
2011-04-02T12:27:04  <phire> it should really be just "a minor improvement"
2011-04-02T12:27:17  <antimatroid> yeah it will be
2011-04-02T12:27:18  <phire> the minor improvement can be diffrent for diffrent starter bots
2011-04-02T12:27:21  <antimatroid> like not colliding your ants
2011-04-02T12:27:31  <phire> I still have to do that
2011-04-02T12:27:39  <antimatroid> http://pastebin.com/jh5VD2q6
2011-04-02T12:27:45  <antimatroid> that's what my debug output looks like
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2011-04-02T12:30:05  <phire> cool
2011-04-02T12:30:37  <phire> its funny how much a small difference in the way my bot moves can make a huge diffrent in the behaviour of the other bots
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2011-04-02T12:50:32  <antimatroid> wtf, why would the clean: part of a make file not run for me?
2011-04-02T12:50:57  <phire> do you have a file named clean in your folder?
2011-04-02T12:51:17  <antimatroid> no
2011-04-02T12:51:50  <phire> hmm
2011-04-02T12:52:13  <phire> pastebin the makefile?
2011-04-02T12:52:50  <antimatroid> http://pastebin.com/Kj65iR3t
2011-04-02T12:53:09  <antimatroid> if i uncomment line 18 it rms the .o files but obviously too soon
2011-04-02T12:53:14  <antimatroid> otherwise they just stay there
2011-04-02T12:56:17  <phire> I can't seam to find anything wrong with it
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2011-04-02T12:59:05  <phire> so what does it output when you type "make clean"?
2011-04-02T13:00:33  <antimatroid> http://pastebin.com/3NbRhTLL
2011-04-02T13:00:57  <antimatroid> oh hang on
2011-04-02T13:01:18  <antimatroid> so i need to do it in 2 calls?
2011-04-02T13:01:29  <antimatroid> "make" then "make clean"?
2011-04-02T13:01:39  <antimatroid> (never really used makefiles before sorry, amstan wrote that for me :P)
2011-04-02T13:01:49  <phire> oh...
2011-04-02T13:02:04  <phire> you want to remove the o files after the binary is compiled
2011-04-02T13:02:49  <phire> people don't useally do that because it breaks incremental compilation
2011-04-02T13:03:22  <phire> but put rm *.o on line 15 to get that result
2011-04-02T13:04:29  <antimatroid> i'll do whatevers usual i guess
2011-04-02T13:04:49  <antimatroid> but i figured it'd be nice to be able to call make and end up with just a compiled executable
2011-04-02T13:05:03  <antimatroid> (i recently switched from windows finally :P)
2011-04-02T13:05:06  <antimatroid> to ubuntu
2011-04-02T13:05:15  <phire> I figured
2011-04-02T13:05:50  <phire> the .o files contain the compiled version of the .cc file of the same name
2011-04-02T13:06:00  <phire> if you only change one .c file
2011-04-02T13:06:31  <phire> then it only needs to compile a single .o file and then compile all the .o files into the final executable
2011-04-02T13:07:24  <antimatroid> yeah fair enough
2011-04-02T13:07:38  <antimatroid> i usually just let codeblocks handle all my linking for me
2011-04-02T13:07:41  <antimatroid> :P
2011-04-02T13:08:24  <phire> but one problem with that makefile
2011-04-02T13:08:53  <phire> is if you change one of the .h files, it wont recompile all the .c files
2011-04-02T13:09:18  <phire> which could result in a inconsistent executable.
2011-04-02T13:10:56  <antimatroid> how do i fix that? :P
2011-04-02T13:11:17  <phire> there a few ways
2011-04-02T13:11:53  <phire> just run clean between changing a .h file and compiling
2011-04-02T13:12:30  <phire> or add *.h after the colon on line 16
2011-04-02T13:12:55  <phire> which will force all the .cc files to recompile if a h file changes
2011-04-02T13:13:27  <phire> or use a makefile with does propper dependancy checking
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2011-04-02T23:16:54  <antimatroid> http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/games/video-games-reform-rebuffed-over-violence-fears-20110402-1csmm.html
2011-04-02T23:16:56  <antimatroid> yay australia
2011-04-02T23:17:12  <antimatroid> sigh: i was thinking about the food bonus
2011-04-02T23:17:36  <antimatroid> i think it should go to the last participating player if there ever is one, including once the game reaches the turn limit
2011-04-02T23:17:48  <antimatroid> (ie. a player takes someone out on the last turn)
2011-04-02T23:18:29  <antimatroid> but not be split amongst players if it ends with more than 1 participating player? (i'm iffy on this, but i think that's what works well)
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2011-04-02T23:59:39  <sigh> antimatroid: having only one player at the turn limit is incredibly unlikey, what do you gain by adding that special case?