2011-04-28T00:01:17 McLeopold: Sent another request. I didn't have time to test things cause I'm starving and have decided to eat, but everything should work alright 2011-04-28T00:01:38 then, undo the request and send another one when you do test 2011-04-28T00:01:46 this isn't a high priority 2011-04-28T00:01:55 plus, I can look at your fork 2011-04-28T00:03:17 alright 2011-04-28T00:03:47 actually I found something that's messed up too, so I'll check back in a little bit :P 2011-04-28T00:32:07 *** orivej has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-04-28T00:35:18 McLeopold: Looks good now 2011-04-28T00:45:28 cool 2011-04-28T01:01:06 who created the php bots? 2011-04-28T01:02:13 *** orivej has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T01:03:12 a masochist... 2011-04-28T01:04:39 haha php looks relatively simple. I wouldn't write in it :P but if nobody else is willing to it then I can add 'r' lines and add the UNSEEN_FOOD option for the map 2011-04-28T01:04:54 You don't actually know who wrote it? 2011-04-28T01:06:13 well, github should tell you, but no, I wasn't aware it was being done 2011-04-28T01:06:43 *** orivej_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T01:07:58 *** orivej has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2011-04-28T01:17:14 *** orivej_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2011-04-28T01:31:03 *** jaycobcoleman has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-04-28T01:33:43 *** Mathnerd314 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-04-28T01:33:53 *** jaycobcoleman has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T01:34:47 recursive acronyms are stupid 2011-04-28T01:34:50 like PHP 2011-04-28T01:35:10 THE P IN PHP CAN NOT STAND FOR PHP! 2011-04-28T01:35:45 I thought it was "personal"? 2011-04-28T01:36:51 it was 2011-04-28T01:37:07 "While PHP originally stood for "Personal Home Page", it is now said to stand for "PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor", a recursive acronym." 2011-04-28T01:40:05 *** McLeopold1 has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T01:40:44 I just pronounce the 'H' as 'oo' 2011-04-28T01:40:50 *** McLeopold has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2011-04-28T01:40:59 \nick McLeopold 2011-04-28T01:41:04 *** McLeopold1 is now known as McLeopold 2011-04-28T01:41:17 (too much windows pathing...) 2011-04-28T01:48:34 oh god assignment 2011-04-28T01:48:36 s 2011-04-28T01:52:29 ? 2011-04-28T01:54:48 lots of assignments 2011-04-28T01:54:51 i love this russian library 2011-04-28T01:55:03 animatroid: I was about to ask you what was up :P you've been pretty quiet today 2011-04-28T01:55:06 of course they have a pdf copy of that topology of 2x2 games (taxonomy) for me 2011-04-28T01:55:11 i was at uni 2011-04-28T01:55:16 (we had a week off for uni) 2011-04-28T01:55:27 and i have algebra and analysis assignments 2011-04-28T01:55:44 http://gen.lib.rus.ec/search?req=topology+games&nametype=orig&column%5B%5D=title&column%5B%5D=author 2011-04-28T01:55:45 best 2011-04-28T01:55:54 oh man. I usually just ignore my assignments until they go away :P 2011-04-28T01:56:38 doesn't work like that at uni 2011-04-28T01:56:47 they're both technically already past due 2011-04-28T01:56:56 I Know :) 2011-04-28T01:56:56 but my lecturers don't mind as long as we do them 2011-04-28T01:57:34 that's good. Several of my teachers love me to the extend that they're just arbitrarily giving me extra points for things I haven't done :) 2011-04-28T01:57:47 I got 150/100 on a project I just did 2011-04-28T01:58:09 yeah, i'm doing a physics unit atm (maths unit in disguise) and the lecturer has been giving out bonus marks for assignments 2011-04-28T01:58:17 i am currently sitting level on perfect marks 2011-04-28T01:58:23 due to some bonus marks and other lost marks 2011-04-28T01:58:42 To be fair though, it is for anthropology, which isn't the most significant class at my school 2011-04-28T01:58:59 lol why would you do that? :P 2011-04-28T01:59:02 *** ahmedhelal has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-04-28T01:59:15 to be fair, i didn't do anything hard before uni 2011-04-28T01:59:49 *** ahmedhelal has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T02:01:09 The teacher for anthropology is the most delightful woman. And I don't actually have to do any work. That's why :) 2011-04-28T02:01:16 The same with humanities 2011-04-28T02:01:27 But everything else if hard :P 2011-04-28T02:01:31 *is 2011-04-28T02:02:28 oh the huge manatee 2011-04-28T02:08:04 I'm not complaining :P 2011-04-28T02:14:03 *** janzert has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-04-28T02:15:46 *** janzert has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T02:16:46 While we're on the subject. My favorite: http://img9.imageshack.us/f/ohthehugemanatee.png/ 2011-04-28T02:20:43 :p 2011-04-28T02:21:33 I love hugh laurie 2011-04-28T02:21:51 vicodin and all 2011-04-28T02:24:13 so I don't understand common lisp 2011-04-28T02:24:36 I'm sure I could, but as of now I look at it and just don't understand 2011-04-28T02:24:55 landoflisp.com 2011-04-28T02:25:16 unless you're talking about the starter bot? 2011-04-28T02:29:57 *** McLeopold has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2011-04-28T02:31:02 that book is both amazing and truly daunting at showing just how complicated games are 2011-04-28T02:31:30 the topology of 2x2 games book 2011-04-28T02:32:26 they get 144 equivalence classes 2011-04-28T02:33:23 that website is wonderful 2011-04-28T02:33:38 it has more books than any other site i have come across 2011-04-28T02:33:47 rapidlibrary is good, but not that good 2011-04-28T02:33:56 not even close 2011-04-28T02:34:03 I meant landoflisp :P but that as well 2011-04-28T02:34:08 :p 2011-04-28T02:34:41 I don't know, I think I might have to invest some time into making the lolcode starter 2011-04-28T02:34:53 It's pretty important :/ 2011-04-28T02:34:57 i believe the joke has been made :P 2011-04-28T02:35:16 what joke :| 2011-04-28T02:35:23 the lolcode bot :P 2011-04-28T02:35:54 atm it should be reusable across contests? 2011-04-28T02:36:56 it would be cool to make a game where the engine generated rules and there was a format for passing them to the bots at the start of the game 2011-04-28T02:37:04 or maps were game rules 2011-04-28T02:37:08 with a map 2011-04-28T02:37:17 that'd be pretty sweet 2011-04-28T02:37:33 pretty hard to write a bot for though 2011-04-28T02:37:33 generic program game creation 2011-04-28T02:38:04 I actually quite like that idea 2011-04-28T02:38:21 it becomes about creating a bot that knows what the hell it's trying to do 2011-04-28T02:39:14 one thing might be how varied the size of the state spaces are allowed to be 2011-04-28T02:39:33 i think i could write a pretty good general bot 2011-04-28T02:39:41 *** delt0r___ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-04-28T02:39:49 you'd need to know when to fall back on heuristics though 2011-04-28T02:39:56 and generalising those might not be so simple 2011-04-28T02:39:56 I think I'd have to do some serious fiddling first :) 2011-04-28T02:40:26 after writing a few ai bots it's a bit easier to think through things 2011-04-28T02:40:37 like actual contest length ones, not starter bots 2011-04-28T02:40:59 yeah I need to get on some real bot creation 2011-04-28T02:41:12 you have much more of an idea than I did at the start of tron 2011-04-28T02:41:29 I have more ideas than I can count and I know how to implement most of them 2011-04-28T02:41:33 minus any game theory, but i hadn't programmed a game tree before 2011-04-28T02:41:36 just not how to fit them all together 2011-04-28T02:41:43 time is a big problem 2011-04-28T02:41:51 i had lots of wild ideas for planet wars that weren't feasible 2011-04-28T02:42:03 getting anything from game trees in this is going to be very hard due to the number of ants 2011-04-28T02:42:05 I've been alright on time so far 2011-04-28T02:42:24 if you stay with heuristics and use a timer you should be fine 2011-04-28T02:42:37 but any kind of game representation blows out much faster than you would expect 2011-04-28T02:42:41 My only game theory experience comes from the show numb3rs 2011-04-28T02:42:47 which isn't 100% accurate on math 2011-04-28T02:42:48 that show is awful 2011-04-28T02:42:57 I agree :/ 2011-04-28T02:43:03 I liked it early on 2011-04-28T02:44:08 The pseudo-math really started to bother me as my brain developed 2011-04-28T02:46:27 wait till you do some actual maths :P 2011-04-28T02:47:12 imo if the course isn't being taught with definitions/theorems etc. it isn't being taught right 2011-04-28T02:48:09 How would ants be classified in game theory? 2011-04-28T02:48:25 I imagine simultaneous, imperfect information, zero sum? 2011-04-28T02:48:32 it's not zero sum 2011-04-28T02:48:44 this is true 2011-04-28T02:48:47 what is it? 2011-04-28T02:48:53 the set of simultaneous games is isomorphic to the set of sequential games 2011-04-28T02:49:11 that is each simultaneous game has an equivalent representation as a sequential game and vice versa 2011-04-28T02:49:17 mhm 2011-04-28T02:49:37 but i think i would really treat it as an extensive form game with imperfect information 2011-04-28T02:49:55 imperfect information because of the simultaneous moves each turn, not the fog of war 2011-04-28T02:50:11 or maybe you could treat it as a multistage game 2011-04-28T02:50:20 which is like a game tree where you have a simultaneous game at each node 2011-04-28T02:50:45 *** valtex has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T02:51:08 I understand the extensive game idea, but not the simultaneous at each node 2011-04-28T02:51:13 if i treat it as a game, i plan to treat is as a zero sum game "me vs. the rest" each turn using a simultaneous representation and either pick the strategy that maximises the minimum of the row or work out some kind of minimax regret function 2011-04-28T02:51:27 you know what a simultaneous game is? 2011-04-28T02:51:46 just plonk one of those at each node, the non-terminal outcomes have branches leading to another game 2011-04-28T02:51:51 where everyone moves at the same time without knowledge of each other's moves I assune 2011-04-28T02:51:53 *assime 2011-04-28T02:51:56 yes 2011-04-28T02:52:00 I'm terrible at typing 2011-04-28T02:52:15 then imagine playing one of those, and each of the "outcomes" leading to another simultaneous game 2011-04-28T02:52:35 except if the "outcome" is terminal at which point you specify payoffs 2011-04-28T02:52:57 it needs to be a tree for multistage games though 2011-04-28T02:53:03 so you can't have a graph 2011-04-28T02:53:10 well, a non-tree graph :P 2011-04-28T02:54:31 that sounds complicated :P I'm sure you've addressed this, but would the outcome of the game at each of the nodes be related to the outcomes of those around it? 2011-04-28T02:55:01 not generally i don't think 2011-04-28T02:55:15 well very generally i am pretty sure no 2011-04-28T02:55:23 for ants i don't think so 2011-04-28T02:55:50 So how do ants being near one-another affect the outcome of the game? 2011-04-28T02:56:14 the strategies don't necessarily give that though 2011-04-28T02:56:31 and even then it'd be quite complicated i think 2011-04-28T02:56:59 hmm. Maybe I just don't entirely understand. My concern was that it might be order dependant 2011-04-28T02:57:37 what do you mean? 2011-04-28T02:58:51 the outcome of each game would be dependent upon information from other games, so if it didn't yet have information about the outcome of some of the games it would have a different outcome than if those had been evaluated first 2011-04-28T02:59:35 do you know how to do backward induction on a game tree to find subgame perfect nash equilibrium? 2011-04-28T02:59:46 indeed I do not 2011-04-28T02:59:52 that's a mouthful, you just start from the bottom nodes and pick what the player would choose, and keep working your way back up 2011-04-28T03:00:19 any strategies that have arrows leading to a terminal node essentially give you the terminal nodes that can result from this 2011-04-28T03:00:40 with zero sum games it's cool because you can ensure you do no worse than what's predicted (in that if the player plays not-rationally, then you only do better) 2011-04-28T03:00:53 generally you don't have that property, making backward induction a lot harder for people in ants 2011-04-28T03:01:03 oh I see. Wouldn't that require a bit more time though? 2011-04-28T03:01:10 well, not necessarily harder to do, but they have a few choices and no obvious best choice 2011-04-28T03:01:28 one cool thing is that your decision sort of reflects how much you're willing to cooperate with enemies 2011-04-28T03:01:51 although to do that well you'd really want to use a tit-for-tat strategy to not try and cooperate with stupid bots and non-cooperative bots 2011-04-28T03:02:03 I'm not gonna depend on others' bots too much :/ 2011-04-28T03:02:12 yeah, i'm not cooperating 2011-04-28T03:02:24 it's a cool aspect, but i don't expect enough people to attempt it 2011-04-28T03:02:24 I like the idea of treating it as an extensive form game much better :) 2011-04-28T03:02:35 they are equivalent :P 2011-04-28T03:03:08 i was going to do a tree because i like that, but then the way i reduced it, it was just easier/faster to treat it as the simultaneous version 2011-04-28T03:03:11 But I understand the concept of an extensive form game than creating games at every node 2011-04-28T03:03:22 you don't create a game at every node 2011-04-28T03:03:36 the entire tree is one game, you implement moves at each node 2011-04-28T03:03:42 then evaluate the states at the terminal nodes 2011-04-28T03:04:11 :) I'll get it eventually 2011-04-28T03:05:46 *** orivej has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T03:06:18 animatroid: If I ever get around to really making my bot I'm gonna want to do some test runs with you :P 2011-04-28T03:06:50 tcp server is best 2011-04-28T03:07:01 That'd be nice 2011-04-28T03:07:09 If we get it running 2011-04-28T03:07:19 like i said before though, game trees will be hard in this 2011-04-28T03:07:45 you either need to consider like 2 moves from each ant, significantly prune as you generate or only do a few ants at a time 2011-04-28T03:08:10 i might try and keep battles near water :P 2011-04-28T03:08:13 minimise the number of moves 2011-04-28T03:08:45 actually, that could be quite interesting 2011-04-28T03:08:51 some bots lining themselves against walls 2011-04-28T03:08:58 and people having to fight and pass around it 2011-04-28T03:09:02 because it's not worth attacking them 2011-04-28T03:09:11 against water* 2011-04-28T03:09:55 it will be cool watching attackers invade campers 2011-04-28T03:10:05 i just hope to god the attackers are able to win out 2011-04-28T03:10:10 it'll be a rather boring competition otherwise 2011-04-28T03:10:56 haha I considered locating cutoff points and blocking off all but one that are visible with formations of ants which line the edge of a battle radius 2011-04-28T03:10:59 actually,follow my previous thought 2011-04-28T03:11:18 if camping reigns at the start, people are going to try to "grow" and claim as much land to parition the map 2011-04-28T03:11:21 then not fight each other 2011-04-28T03:11:33 but then you're going to start trying to send ants out early to claim the edges 2011-04-28T03:11:49 which could lead to an oscillation of best strategies 2011-04-28T03:12:02 where the campers and attackers gradually work out how to outdo each other 2011-04-28T03:12:03 that'd be obnoxious 2011-04-28T03:12:09 that'd be awesome 2011-04-28T03:12:16 meh 2011-04-28T03:12:31 actually I don't know 2011-04-28T03:12:46 I honestly don't think I'd have too much trouble thwarting campers 2011-04-28T03:12:56 if "corridor" blocking is a problem, we will remove small corridors from the maps 2011-04-28T03:13:03 yeah neither 2011-04-28T03:13:15 we've picked the rules to try and make sure camping isn't the best strategy 2011-04-28T03:13:25 Yeah I've noticed 2011-04-28T03:13:46 sure camping is a valid strategy, but it wouldn't be a particularly interesting ai contest 2011-04-28T03:13:52 so hence the rule decisions 2011-04-28T03:14:15 giving points for food is a dangerous decision, but still one I'm happy about 2011-04-28T03:15:33 Here's an idea. We could spawn food in such a way that it tends to spawn away from ants 2011-04-28T03:15:42 further from large groupings than single ants 2011-04-28T03:16:17 That way if an area is staked out fewer food squares will spawn there 2011-04-28T03:16:42 providing incentive to move ants around 2011-04-28T03:17:04 McLeopold and I had a fairly lengthy discussion about what it does to strategies for giving those points 2011-04-28T03:17:30 i don't want food spawning to be affected by ant locations (much) 2011-04-28T03:17:55 (much) because of the fact that a food square may wait to spawn until an ant moves off it 2011-04-28T03:18:01 but that is mostly only hurtful to that ant 2011-04-28T03:18:06 if they don't move 2011-04-28T03:18:27 that's another thing, people wont want static campers 2011-04-28T03:18:33 because food will wait to spawn there 2011-04-28T03:18:40 at least for symmetric maps 2011-04-28T03:18:40 if camping becomes a problem then the answer definitely lies in food placement 2011-04-28T03:19:05 camping isn't necessarily sitting still though 2011-04-28T03:19:06 not necessarily with that solution (I think we could do better), but somehow 2011-04-28T03:19:11 you can just have your ants avoid battles 2011-04-28T03:19:13 and roam 2011-04-28T03:19:45 ah crap, i need mcleopld 2011-04-28T03:19:56 whyzat? 2011-04-28T03:20:15 it depends on how easily an ant can avoid battles 2011-04-28T03:20:35 it'd be pretty damn easy 2011-04-28T03:20:39 we'll see in the beta period 2011-04-28T03:20:45 i'll make such a bot and hope it can be outdone 2011-04-28T03:21:03 I'll do the same. I think I kind of did already 2011-04-28T03:21:08 I don't really remember :P 2011-04-28T03:21:13 we could always up the value of a dead ant 2011-04-28T03:21:28 Or decrease vision distance 2011-04-28T03:21:34 it's pretty large right now 2011-04-28T03:21:41 or at least what's been discussed 2011-04-28T03:21:43 we already ddi 2011-04-28T03:21:53 it's down to view2 = 55 2011-04-28T03:21:57 i don't want to go smaller 2011-04-28T03:22:13 yeah that's pretty good 2011-04-28T03:22:40 alright, let's make some WussyBots! I'm gonna go take a shower 2011-04-28T03:22:46 goodbye 2011-04-28T03:22:52 i can't program bots tonight 2011-04-28T03:23:00 yeah neither can I 2011-04-28T03:23:03 as I said, shower 2011-04-28T03:23:11 and it's already 11:30 2011-04-28T03:23:25 so probably not tonight 2011-04-28T03:23:56 *** jaycobcoleman has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-04-28T03:27:11 *** Ice_Harley has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T03:44:11 *** orivej has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-04-28T03:49:45 *** aerique has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T03:54:01 *** berak has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T04:03:32 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T04:09:36 *** jaycobcoleman has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T04:14:24 *** delt0r_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T04:33:34 *** delt0r___ has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T04:35:18 *** delt0r_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-04-28T04:40:53 *** jaycobcoleman has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-04-28T04:41:32 *** mcstar has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T04:43:43 *** stocha has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T04:44:36 antimatroid: if no first seen land, then r line really don't make sense. 2011-04-28T04:45:37 however, i never found that camping was an option in my testing. Even trying to avoid others ennemy ants is really a sure path to loosing. 2011-04-28T04:46:08 The less the view radius, the more randomness is in the game. 2011-04-28T04:46:29 Simply because you have to make choice with much fewer information. 2011-04-28T04:47:18 At this point, i believe that the ant game will be mostly heuristic based. Because it features a large space, and very few cpu time. 2011-04-28T04:47:56 But heuristic will be hugely impacted by small variation into the rules and map/food topology distribution. 2011-04-28T04:48:43 Wich means that as long as you can't know what the view radius/fight radius, score method, map/food topology will be, you have to make bet about the heuristic you choose to implement. 2011-04-28T04:49:56 *** boegel has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T04:50:09 Spawning food away from ant position is a choice. Spawning food away from large ant cluster is not good though. because clustering is such a hit on food gathering in the first place. 2011-04-28T04:51:04 *** Naktibalda has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T04:51:20 *** stocha has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-04-28T05:02:09 my two cents: 1: the bot needs to avoid battle as long as possible, 2: it needs to attack at least in pairs 2011-04-28T05:02:42 what's "as long as possible"? 2011-04-28T05:02:57 depends on the number of max turns 2011-04-28T05:03:09 and the size of the discovered territory 2011-04-28T05:03:28 i would like to see a lot less food than games have been using so far 2011-04-28T05:03:33 the maps get flooded 2011-04-28T05:03:47 oh, will the maps get bigger? 2011-04-28T05:04:20 ive only see so far the vsualization on hypertriangle 2011-04-28T05:04:31 and it is small map 2011-04-28T05:04:48 or at least some games where there are way less ants 2011-04-28T05:04:48 so you get more interesting groups 2011-04-28T05:04:48 rather than a page of mess 2011-04-28T05:05:07 it's capped at 256 2011-04-28T05:05:12 but i don't see them getting much bigger than now 2011-04-28T05:05:18 256x256? 2011-04-28T05:05:38 yeah 2011-04-28T05:05:47 but it was rectangular 2011-04-28T05:05:49 nevermind 2011-04-28T05:07:16 i have an idea 2011-04-28T05:07:26 maybe after a battle of 2 ants 2011-04-28T05:07:33 they shouldnt die 2011-04-28T05:07:42 but leave a zombia ant behind 2011-04-28T05:07:47 or a food cube 2011-04-28T05:07:59 and u spawn that much less food on the map 2011-04-28T05:08:18 and if one ant comes close it will get a buddyű 2011-04-28T05:08:36 *** mceier has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T05:09:25 i think this will create some kind of clustering 2011-04-28T05:09:41 its better that random food drops 2011-04-28T05:09:45 no? 2011-04-28T05:09:56 i have hockey training sorry 2011-04-28T05:09:59 i'll be back later.. 2011-04-28T05:10:38 take care 2011-04-28T05:15:59 *** orivej has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T05:19:52 the canonical way of getting the starter bot is using git right? 2011-04-28T05:20:06 f, one more thing to learn 2011-04-28T05:20:55 i saw a google talks video with Linus, explaining why GIT is wonderful and why everything else sucked 2011-04-28T05:21:21 i wasnt especially encouraged at the end to use it 2011-04-28T05:26:04 just hit "Download file" at github and forget about this git 2011-04-28T05:27:38 does it download everything or just the directory im watching? 2011-04-28T05:28:53 ok 2011-04-28T05:28:55 everything 2011-04-28T05:28:57 thx 2011-04-28T05:30:59 *** Frontier has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T05:32:31 ah 2011-04-28T05:32:56 in ArchLinux the python 2.7 interpreter is called python2 2011-04-28T05:33:03 python is python 3.2 2011-04-28T05:33:15 just a note 2011-04-28T05:38:55 mcstar: You can probably configure the default (python) to point either to python2 or python3 2011-04-28T05:39:37 it'll probably break OS scripts then 2011-04-28T05:39:49 if you mean backup /usr/bin/python and make a symlink 2011-04-28T05:39:54 yes, i can do that 2011-04-28T05:40:05 wont break anything 2011-04-28T05:40:19 nothing uses python3 as far as i know 2011-04-28T05:40:21 Arch has ignored the recommendations of python developers and made usr/bin/python point to python3 2011-04-28T05:40:39 all the arch packages expect it from my understanding 2011-04-28T05:40:53 /usr/bin/python as python3 that is 2011-04-28T05:41:06 i cant think of one example which uses python3 2011-04-28T05:41:25 in fact i could remove it if i wanted 2011-04-28T05:42:03 ok, just remember that you changed it if stuff breaks in the future :) 2011-04-28T05:42:07 last year december i was suprised when my scripts started to break though 2011-04-28T05:42:24 the TARNSITION begun that time 2011-04-28T05:42:47 i dont know what those packagers ate to make this decision 2011-04-28T05:42:52 lsd trip? 2011-04-28T05:42:55 ok, all i know from using gentoo is that the default there is python2, but you can use the system's configuration tool to switch between both versions. scripts that depend on either version can still call python2 or python3. 2011-04-28T05:43:33 i see, but i have know knowledge of such config options in Arch 2011-04-28T05:43:41 know-yno 2011-04-28T05:43:50 omg excuise me 2011-04-28T05:44:00 my hand-brain coordination isnt perfect 2011-04-28T05:44:07 excusé moi? 2011-04-28T05:44:44 excuise 2011-04-28T05:44:48 no? 2011-04-28T05:44:59 no 2011-04-28T05:45:01 je ne sais pas. 2011-04-28T05:45:24 no problem? 2011-04-28T05:45:37 what does it mean? i dont know french :( 2011-04-28T05:45:48 i don't know 2011-04-28T05:46:07 exquisite may be the word that you mixed in 2011-04-28T05:46:40 i wanted to say excuse me 2011-04-28T05:46:48 beacuse i wrote know instead of no 2011-04-28T05:46:53 it happened before 2011-04-28T05:47:03 i have no idea why though 2011-04-28T05:47:10 and it will happen again - battle star galactica 2011-04-28T05:47:35 im kind of happy bsg is over 2011-04-28T05:47:50 it became a big burden to watch it 2011-04-28T05:48:03 it was great while it lasted and it ended before it became a running joke 2011-04-28T05:48:17 like some reality show u dont really like anymore but u want to know the ending 2011-04-28T05:48:19 *** valtex has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-04-28T05:48:34 have u seen the original? 2011-04-28T05:49:07 I checked youtube for it 2011-04-28T05:50:27 i have both bsg 1978, bsg 1980 2011-04-28T05:50:36 I would not like the original better, especially not today. it was too low budget with people in tin foil acting as robots and talking like what was supposed to be the future of speech synthesis 2011-04-28T05:50:39 fun to watch 2011-04-28T05:50:48 oh sure 2011-04-28T05:50:54 it was kind of silly 2011-04-28T05:51:14 but if i had a child i would definitely show him/her the original 2011-04-28T05:51:20 lol, but maybe it is quite funny if you watch it as a trash movie :p 2011-04-28T05:52:18 similar to watching any old series in fact 2011-04-28T05:52:32 they werent as sophisticated as they are today 2011-04-28T05:52:46 (not every series is sophisticated today, but there are some) 2011-04-28T05:53:19 OMG 2011-04-28T05:53:24 i have an idea 2011-04-28T05:53:32 i will go and watch stargate 2011-04-28T05:53:42 they battled the replicators many times 2011-04-28T05:53:50 ill learn swarm startegy from them 2011-04-28T05:53:57 how about that 2011-04-28T05:54:09 did you notice that in the remake there was always a sense of up and down in outer space? the ship had a roll and nick indicator, there was gravity on the decks, ships were never seen in odd angles to each other (not even cylon ships towards the human fleet) 2011-04-28T05:54:52 that is a good idea, but not as good as watching real ants 2011-04-28T05:55:20 did you notice that anything that explodes in space had a sort of accretion disk ? which selects a plane in 3d? 2011-04-28T05:55:49 and it coincides with the viewers horizon usually 2011-04-28T05:56:23 i watch scifi for the phylosiphical dilemmas and action 2011-04-28T05:56:37 start here for example :): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXaaTQztoI0 2011-04-28T05:57:06 doesnt load :( 2011-04-28T05:57:29 lets kill mr. torrent 2011-04-28T05:57:41 *** delt0r___ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-04-28T05:57:50 mcstar: yes you are right about the explosions, but I often think that the creators of sci-fi movies know better 2011-04-28T05:59:01 even in bsg they tried to simulate a few things correctly, but only if it wouldn't look better don wrong ^^ 2011-04-28T05:59:39 the explosion i descibed fits this 2011-04-28T05:59:52 an even explosion expanding like a sphere 2011-04-28T06:00:02 isnt that much fun to watch 2011-04-28T06:00:03 :) 2011-04-28T06:00:22 and soundless space is also quite boring 2011-04-28T06:00:29 yep 2011-04-28T06:00:45 i dont mind in starwars every ship is like a diesel engine 2011-04-28T06:00:55 rofl 2011-04-28T06:01:19 have u seen farscape? 2011-04-28T06:01:28 theres an episode 2011-04-28T06:01:30 The Flux 2011-04-28T06:01:32 no 2011-04-28T06:01:40 and theres a salvage ship 2011-04-28T06:01:52 which actually is like a steam-engine 2011-04-28T06:02:07 of course it doesnt use steam or coal 2011-04-28T06:02:18 *** stocha has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T06:02:20 hey there :p 2011-04-28T06:02:23 but theryre burning contraband articles 2011-04-28T06:02:31 to heat up something to prpell the ship 2011-04-28T06:02:45 its quite a streach 2011-04-28T06:02:54 farscape is like CRAZY 2011-04-28T06:03:05 i highly recommaned it 2011-04-28T06:03:53 when i was younger i had an explanation to starwars deep space sounds. 2011-04-28T06:04:37 The ship hull as captors that transform some input into sounds, for compactness of information. So that the pilot get packed informations into this. 2011-04-28T06:04:59 Obviously the spectator receive the same information. 2011-04-28T06:05:22 It can apply to most sci fi. 2011-04-28T06:06:31 o.O 2011-04-28T06:06:52 what ? doesn't sound like it could be ? 2011-04-28T06:07:06 u mean like radar information is embedded in the diesel noise? 2011-04-28T06:07:08 or my english syntax is so poor it's ununderstandable :p 2011-04-28T06:07:23 yeah sure. makes sense. And also ship drive signature. 2011-04-28T06:07:24 i had a hard time with ur second line :) 2011-04-28T06:07:36 Imagine you are a pilot 2011-04-28T06:07:53 got it 2011-04-28T06:07:57 Farscape was probably not on free tv channels in Germany. Otherwise I cannot explain I've never come across it 2011-04-28T06:07:59 it's good to able to locate tie fighter by the directionnal sound of their engine. And also know where the xwings are. 2011-04-28T06:08:40 Fontier: you monitor all tv channel all the time ? :p 2011-04-28T06:08:43 (they aired it even here in hungary on free broadcast) 2011-04-28T06:09:01 servus. 2011-04-28T06:09:09 no, but statistically you know... 2011-04-28T06:09:30 My hungarian is quite limited. to say the least. My daughters are half hungarians. 2011-04-28T06:09:50 szia 2011-04-28T06:09:56 25% hungarian in fact. but well. The mother is trying to speak that at home :p 2011-04-28T06:10:12 I should really take some time some day, to get a basis. 2011-04-28T06:10:14 *** UncleVasya has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T06:10:22 you should :) 2011-04-28T06:10:27 hmm from the length of the word I deduce that it is a common word, like 'hello' 2011-04-28T06:10:35 i should make time for myself to learn proper grman 2011-04-28T06:10:40 Franciaursag es noy ursag. very limited indeed :p 2011-04-28T06:10:45 exactly 2011-04-28T06:11:02 French is my native language? 2011-04-28T06:11:08 no 2011-04-28T06:11:08 Franciaország és (nem tudom mi) 2011-04-28T06:11:26 I am French 2011-04-28T06:11:27 it was meant to meant that france is a big(or beautiful i don't know) country. 2011-04-28T06:11:52 oh :D 2011-04-28T06:12:00 sorry 2011-04-28T06:12:04 i cant make it out 2011-04-28T06:12:05 It's like in the first lesson i had. 2011-04-28T06:12:09 noy ursag? 2011-04-28T06:12:16 aha 2011-04-28T06:12:17 mmm 2011-04-28T06:12:19 nagy ország 2011-04-28T06:12:23 yeah :) 2011-04-28T06:12:25 that's it. 2011-04-28T06:12:26 not és 2011-04-28T06:12:29 egy 2011-04-28T06:12:37 Franciaország egy nagy ország 2011-04-28T06:12:55 yeah that's it. Hey you are good at hungarian :p better than me :p 2011-04-28T06:12:56 frenchland is big country 2011-04-28T06:13:06 thx 2011-04-28T06:13:07 :) 2011-04-28T06:13:29 I should go on the a hungarian tchat 2011-04-28T06:13:30 probably 2011-04-28T06:13:39 then i could learn some stuff. where should i go ? 2011-04-28T06:13:44 i learned deutsch for 6 yeaRS at least 2011-04-28T06:13:59 do you know a good and popular hungarian chat site ? 2011-04-28T06:13:59 well i dont know 2011-04-28T06:14:02 i dont chat :) 2011-04-28T06:14:07 yeah. nobody do. 2011-04-28T06:14:14 i just irc with my buddies 2011-04-28T06:14:21 and some other channels 2011-04-28T06:14:25 but its international 2011-04-28T06:14:38 read online newspapers 2011-04-28T06:14:44 thats the way to start 2011-04-28T06:15:23 i don't like to read. i mean it's boring. I need to have real people to get motivated. and a computer. so chat seems a good idea. 2011-04-28T06:15:41 fair enough 2011-04-28T06:16:14 Like the chat of starwars fan site maybe. i don't know how to google that obviously. 2011-04-28T06:16:36 theres a change they call themselves that 2011-04-28T06:16:51 ? 2011-04-28T06:16:59 starwars fan site 2011-04-28T06:17:20 just make sure google lists the hungarian domain 2011-04-28T06:17:20 yeah, but hungarian only starwars fan site. 2011-04-28T06:17:54 http://www.mateherbert.gportal.hu/ 2011-04-28T06:18:16 like that : http://www.starwars.hu/center/index.php 2011-04-28T06:18:46 www.starwarsklub.hu 2011-04-28T06:19:18 hehe. i should try i guess. Maybe it'll make me motivated. 2011-04-28T06:19:50 i found some 2011-04-28T06:19:56 on IRCnet 2011-04-28T06:20:00 theres a channel 2011-04-28T06:20:08 #starwars.hu 2011-04-28T06:21:35 i don't have irc. irronically :p i use the web client they gave the url off. 2011-04-28T06:21:45 maybe it's time to install it though. mgn 2011-04-28T06:21:45 oh 2011-04-28T06:21:58 im sure ircnet has webchat too 2011-04-28T06:22:31 try this 2011-04-28T06:22:33 http://webchat.xs4all.nl/ 2011-04-28T06:22:34 i just realized i still have the hungarian assimil method in my desk tirroir. 2011-04-28T06:22:53 im sorry i dont understand 2011-04-28T06:23:08 whats assimil method? whats desk tirroir? 2011-04-28T06:23:13 a book to learn hungarian was right into my desk. 2011-04-28T06:23:19 ah 2011-04-28T06:23:23 for a year it has been apparently. 2011-04-28T06:23:32 i forgot it was there. 2011-04-28T06:23:48 i cant imagine how hungarian sounds to a starnger 2011-04-28T06:23:52 im soo curious 2011-04-28T06:24:48 to a french it sounds like a foreign langage :p 2011-04-28T06:25:09 it seems to be difficult to grab. 2011-04-28T06:25:29 szep ido von. 2011-04-28T06:25:42 van 2011-04-28T06:25:59 szép az idő 2011-04-28T06:26:08 i didn't knew the hungarian people where so nice with foreigners :p 2011-04-28T06:26:15 they are? 2011-04-28T06:26:21 i didnt know that either :) 2011-04-28T06:26:26 i have received very few encouragement for learning. 2011-04-28T06:26:38 yet you seems very supporting :) 2011-04-28T06:26:44 I see latin letters and try to apply known phonetics from germanic / roman languages to it, but most often this is totally wrong I guess. 2011-04-28T06:27:05 to speak hungarian is actually very easy 2011-04-28T06:27:29 yeah. when you learn as a child. That's why i insist that my wife trys to speak that at home. 2011-04-28T06:27:30 u pronounce exactly what is written 2011-04-28T06:27:36 but you have é and õ :-/ 2011-04-28T06:27:50 once u know how to pronounce é ő, c,s 2011-04-28T06:27:54 these letters 2011-04-28T06:27:59 u r almost done 2011-04-28T06:28:07 but i gtg for a minute 2011-04-28T06:28:17 you only have to learn all the gramatical rules and exception. and you are good to go. 2011-04-28T06:28:41 mcstar: you sound like daniel jackson in the stargate movie 2011-04-28T06:28:58 "Once you know the vocals it is pretty easy" or something ^^ 2011-04-28T06:29:26 *** kaemo has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2011-04-28T06:29:32 I think hungarian is quite hard. Easier than chineese. but hard nonetheless. 2011-04-28T06:30:26 as was to be excepted there is noone on the irc channel :p 2011-04-28T06:31:30 nem tudom. i think it means "i don't know". But could be "i don't understand" It's really been a while since last time i trie to work with hungarian :p 2011-04-28T06:32:51 *** Eruonen has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T06:35:33 im back 2011-04-28T06:35:45 welcome. 2011-04-28T06:35:46 ty frontier, i take it as a compliment 2011-04-28T06:35:54 nem tudom is i dont know 2011-04-28T06:36:01 nem értem is i dont understand 2011-04-28T06:36:17 and i didnt say hungarian is easy 2011-04-28T06:36:22 i think you just made me in the mood to try again. Maybe i'll just try to be able to read it a bit. Rather than trying to understand what people says. 2011-04-28T06:36:26 i think the oppposite is true 2011-04-28T06:36:48 if i werent born hun. i dont think i would ever try to speak it 2011-04-28T06:37:06 i just said that pronounciations is easy 2011-04-28T06:37:09 we say that 2011-04-28T06:37:10 but i want my little girls to speak it. 2011-04-28T06:37:22 ahogy írjuk úgy ejtjük 2011-04-28T06:37:31 which means 2011-04-28T06:37:48 as we write it the way we say it 2011-04-28T06:38:04 that's a good thing. French is nasty for that. 2011-04-28T06:38:22 i'm happy i don't have to learn it as a foreign langage. 2011-04-28T06:38:29 :) 2011-04-28T06:38:59 im thinking about learning french 2011-04-28T06:39:05 but this is as far as i got 2011-04-28T06:39:08 don't :p 2011-04-28T06:39:16 it sounds nice 2011-04-28T06:39:51 zsö nö sza pö 2011-04-28T06:40:05 once you know to speak it, you have to learn to write it. And vice versa. 2011-04-28T06:40:28 yeah, thats hard i guess 2011-04-28T06:40:29 look 2011-04-28T06:40:31 thank god there is internet slang 2011-04-28T06:40:38 zso no sza po means it sounds nice ? 2011-04-28T06:40:38 ive got an ant crwling towards my keyboard 2011-04-28T06:40:49 plus = +, moins = -, lu = salut :p 2011-04-28T06:41:20 mcstar: watch it closely 2011-04-28T06:41:20 je ne sais pas=zsö nö sza pé 2011-04-28T06:41:22 lost of french can understand international english. 2011-04-28T06:41:27 if it finds food it will replicate! 2011-04-28T06:41:40 especially those you may encounter on internationals forums :p 2011-04-28T06:42:12 when u write down the pronounciation of (je ne sais pas) u get (zsö nö sza pé) 2011-04-28T06:42:13 so hungarian is a lot like french? 2011-04-28T06:42:43 in the sense that people speak it :) 2011-04-28T06:42:45 If it finds food, it will put in a pheromon, accordingly to statisticall rules that in no time will build a ant column going from colony to food using the shortest path. 2011-04-28T06:42:58 ant shortest path heuristic is very good indeed. 2011-04-28T06:43:03 *** UncleVasya has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-04-28T06:43:05 i blow it off my desk 2011-04-28T06:43:41 no the pronounciation of hungarian is impossible for a french :p 2011-04-28T06:44:11 noir=noá(r) 2011-04-28T06:44:23 you have to twist your mouth in weird ways. And they tell you they don't understand what you mean anyway. if only they try to listen in the first place :p 2011-04-28T06:44:59 mcstar: i don't now about the result. 2011-04-28T06:44:59 moi=moá 2011-04-28T06:45:33 je t'aime = zsö tem 2011-04-28T06:46:07 rue = rű 2011-04-28T06:46:10 ??? so "aimer" = "em" ??? 2011-04-28T06:46:14 lol 2011-04-28T06:46:27 it's a sort of phonetic writing frontier 2011-04-28T06:46:31 yes 2011-04-28T06:46:32 don't think it's a translation. 2011-04-28T06:46:41 how would u write what u hear in hungarian 2011-04-28T06:46:41 oh my bad 2011-04-28T06:46:48 (no meaning just pronunciation) 2011-04-28T06:47:07 i' m so bad at it, that i don't eve think i could try to write. 2011-04-28T06:47:19 let's take szep ido van 2011-04-28T06:47:25 yep? 2011-04-28T06:47:53 sèpe idheu vohan 2011-04-28T06:48:12 but it really won't sound close i guess. 2011-04-28T06:48:33 i'm not even sure how you pronounce it really. 2011-04-28T06:48:45 i'm totally confused with hungarian vovels. 2011-04-28T06:49:47 i cant transcribe it to french 2011-04-28T06:50:05 remembering what my wife told me 2011-04-28T06:50:16 szep might be : séééép 2011-04-28T06:50:27 sz is like english c 2011-04-28T06:50:38 i think she insisted that the length of the vovel was very important. 2011-04-28T06:50:44 yes 2011-04-28T06:51:00 , means long 2011-04-28T06:51:01 Néééémèth 2011-04-28T06:51:04 but it makes it sharp too 2011-04-28T06:52:07 can u pronounce Nate in english? 2011-04-28T06:52:17 sz like english c : coal ? 2011-04-28T06:52:25 the nick name of Nathaniel 2011-04-28T06:52:32 ? 2011-04-28T06:52:48 my english pronounciation is known to be lacky :p 2011-04-28T06:52:55 oh 2011-04-28T06:52:58 still i don't think sz is like c in english :p 2011-04-28T06:53:06 a,b,c 2011-04-28T06:53:09 not k 2011-04-28T06:53:17 isnt' sz like sh? 2011-04-28T06:53:17 christina = szristina ? :p 2011-04-28T06:53:22 *** MatmaRex has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T06:53:23 no 2011-04-28T06:53:27 *** MatmaRex has quit IRC (Changing host) 2011-04-28T06:53:27 *** MatmaRex has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T06:53:30 s is sh 2011-04-28T06:53:31 i think it's like s. silly. 2011-04-28T06:53:33 szilly 2011-04-28T06:53:39 yes 2011-04-28T06:53:42 silly is good 2011-04-28T06:53:49 cilly 2011-04-28T06:53:52 :) 2011-04-28T06:53:54 oh we have an ß for that :) 2011-04-28T06:53:58 bwark 2011-04-28T06:54:10 u dont anymore 2011-04-28T06:54:19 they don't ? 2011-04-28T06:54:20 as far as i knoe 2011-04-28T06:54:21 w 2011-04-28T06:54:27 ß->ss 2011-04-28T06:54:29 isnt it? 2011-04-28T06:55:07 hehe, no. this is only changed for a few select words and i only remember daß -> dass 2011-04-28T06:55:26 so there are still words with ß? 2011-04-28T06:55:29 good to know 2011-04-28T06:55:55 they should simply all make use of standard english characters. and voilà. 2011-04-28T06:56:04 :) 2011-04-28T06:56:12 i gtg eat 2011-04-28T06:56:22 where are you ? 2011-04-28T06:56:28 in buddapest ? 2011-04-28T06:56:28 The swiss is an exclusion to the rule, they don't use ß at all 2011-04-28T06:56:48 buddapesten van ? 2011-04-28T06:57:01 Spaß = fun is an example of a word still written with ß 2011-04-28T06:57:05 i guess he left already. 2011-04-28T06:57:21 mcstar: ^ 2011-04-28T06:57:25 that will do ;) 2011-04-28T06:57:35 hello. 2011-04-28T07:02:16 hi 2011-04-28T07:03:18 Frontier: do you use Qt at all? 2011-04-28T07:03:30 never did, no 2011-04-28T07:06:36 back 2011-04-28T07:06:49 you eat fast. 2011-04-28T07:06:53 Budapest 2011-04-28T07:06:58 but now im not there 2011-04-28T07:07:16 i lived there during my university years 2011-04-28T07:07:23 where are you now ? 2011-04-28T07:07:29 but im ~40 kms down 2011-04-28T07:07:50 actually in a village :) 2011-04-28T07:08:08 mm to bad. Next time i'm in transit in budapest i could have had someone to see at last :p 2011-04-28T07:08:31 maybe when u visit next time i will live there again 2011-04-28T07:08:36 its very probably 2011-04-28T07:08:39 maybe i should inquire about go clubs that may be near the airport also. 2011-04-28T07:08:41 -í 2011-04-28T07:08:42 -y 2011-04-28T07:08:46 +e 2011-04-28T07:09:09 go-go clubs? 2011-04-28T07:09:10 i never really visit. but i've been in transit there a few time. once more than 6 hours i think. 2011-04-28T07:09:29 go clubs. Like weishigo game :p 2011-04-28T07:09:35 oh 2011-04-28T07:09:43 chinese Go 2011-04-28T07:10:13 or not 2011-04-28T07:10:18 i m confused 2011-04-28T07:11:17 *** jbroman has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) 2011-04-28T07:11:27 Wei Chi Go 2011-04-28T07:11:30 k 2011-04-28T07:11:58 *** pgpaskar1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-04-28T07:12:15 antimatroid: have u seen PyQt? 2011-04-28T07:12:23 i looked at examples and it seems easy 2011-04-28T07:12:24 no? 2011-04-28T07:12:29 *** Sunhay has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2011-04-28T07:12:32 but i have a c++ game theory library 2011-04-28T07:12:39 i want to learn Qt so i can do a gui for it 2011-04-28T07:12:43 ok 2011-04-28T07:12:47 but i also want to be able to do network stuff 2011-04-28T07:12:55 *** j3camero has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-04-28T07:13:01 i heard they sometimes use qt for that only 2011-04-28T07:13:30 *** Zepp has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-04-28T07:13:50 *** j3camero has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T07:14:03 *** pgpaskar_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T07:14:12 *** Sunhay has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T07:14:13 *** jbroman has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T07:14:38 *** Zepp has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T07:17:28 *** orivej has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-04-28T07:18:45 *** Eruonen has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-04-28T07:18:56 well, if dead ant would transform into food, you would soon have problem. 2011-04-28T07:20:12 it would be faster to simply use a conversion rule. So that "dead" ant are simply turned to their most damager enemy. 2011-04-28T07:20:47 maybe that would be interesting. But you would have more ants to care for. because they would never die. 2011-04-28T07:20:47 *** Eruonen has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T07:21:25 and it's hard to explain why the ant flip sides :p 2011-04-28T07:21:28 *** Eruonen has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-04-28T07:21:30 if(in one battle everyone dies) {leave a food cube}else{pass} 2011-04-28T07:22:48 antimatroid said the maps get filled with food 2011-04-28T07:23:08 thats why i said maybe battle sites should be preferred 2011-04-28T07:23:32 so that : 2011-04-28T07:23:46 u want to approach battle because u want to eat food 2011-04-28T07:23:49 but at the same time 2011-04-28T07:24:05 u dont want to battle if the proportions arent right 2011-04-28T07:24:11 beacuse u wont get food then 2011-04-28T07:24:20 so its kind of self-regulating instability 2011-04-28T07:24:31 but its just an idea 2011-04-28T07:24:54 doesnt worth a dime until a simulation shows it has merit 2011-04-28T07:25:02 so you have one ant per side at the start. And then you try to eat them. :p 2011-04-28T07:25:19 Most rules are totally arbitrary at this point. 2011-04-28T07:25:30 but the flip side won't buy much suffrage i'm affraid :p 2011-04-28T07:25:38 be it direct or indirect. 2011-04-28T07:26:40 Anyway, everybody keep thinking avoiding fight will be good. But i have seen no evidences of that. I have played i guess about one million games in my mocked ant environment. 2011-04-28T07:27:12 I don't want to conclude anything to fast though. because the game seems to be very sensible to parameters. 2011-04-28T07:27:15 well, i say it too, because fight is inevitable 2011-04-28T07:27:28 sooner or later somebody has to be neo against smith 2011-04-28T07:27:41 but until then u have to eat eat 2011-04-28T07:27:43 :) 2011-04-28T07:27:54 a fat neo can beat a skinny smith 2011-04-28T07:28:03 *** orivej has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T07:28:22 i'm not sure i'm able to cleary convert your metaphore into ant game situations :p 2011-04-28T07:28:44 agreed, not a good one 2011-04-28T07:29:06 "sooner or later somebody has to be neo against smith" :D 2011-04-28T07:29:46 i really liked the matrix 2011-04-28T07:29:49 THE 2011-04-28T07:29:50 just one 2011-04-28T07:29:53 i know, i watch too much matrix 2011-04-28T07:30:31 well it's refreshing. thoses metaphores of you. i would just like to picture them more clearly and relate them to their target. 2011-04-28T07:30:52 il really liked matrix III. 2011-04-28T07:30:59 what is that? 2011-04-28T07:31:08 with the vampires and such. 2011-04-28T07:31:13 ya know ? 2011-04-28T07:31:15 no 2011-04-28T07:31:16 lol 2011-04-28T07:31:18 *** boegel has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-04-28T07:31:20 vampires? 2011-04-28T07:31:22 reloaded II or i don't know 2011-04-28T07:31:28 wasn't there vampire in it ? 2011-04-28T07:31:28 wtf is that? 2011-04-28T07:31:32 thats 2 the keymaker and stuff 2011-04-28T07:31:33 there was only ever one matrix movie 2011-04-28T07:31:36 matrix reloaded ? 2011-04-28T07:31:54 oh antimatroid is a conservative guy 2011-04-28T07:31:59 matriz reloaded then. 2011-04-28T07:32:02 the doesnt consider the other 2 as matrix 2011-04-28T07:32:06 mcstar: just like there's only 151 pokemon ;) 2011-04-28T07:32:12 anyone that claims otherwise is a liar 2011-04-28T07:32:21 it's was even better than highlander II i guess. 2011-04-28T07:32:33 *** delt0r has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T07:32:34 did you saw highlander ii ? 2011-04-28T07:32:38 DONT MENTION HIGHLANDER 2011-04-28T07:32:39 be best *** 2 movie is troll 2 2011-04-28T07:32:39 *** kaemo has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T07:32:44 don't go to nilbog 2011-04-28T07:32:52 the* best 2011-04-28T07:33:03 you don't like the highlander movie ? 2011-04-28T07:33:14 i don't know what it is :P 2011-04-28T07:33:42 it was cool. With imortal taking planes with katanas, and going everywhere with them. Kinda like clark kent and his cape. 2011-04-28T07:34:14 i havent decide yet if the highlanders are comedies or is it serious 2011-04-28T07:34:35 i beleive HL3 is the most wtf movie ever 2011-04-28T07:35:12 the one which is in the future 2011-04-28T07:35:15 or something 2011-04-28T07:35:17 i cant remember 2011-04-28T07:35:30 but theres a project regarding the sky 2011-04-28T07:35:35 i dont know 2011-04-28T07:35:51 u must know stocha 2011-04-28T07:36:32 antimatroid: i like all 3 matrix movies 2011-04-28T07:36:40 what movies? 2011-04-28T07:36:44 i dont think the first is in fact better than the 3rd 2011-04-28T07:36:58 sure :) 2011-04-28T07:37:12 there is no third 2011-04-28T07:37:32 it's highlander II than one mcstar 2011-04-28T07:37:35 that 2011-04-28T07:37:40 ah ok 2011-04-28T07:37:55 the one with the sky, and very coherent scenario. 2011-04-28T07:38:22 where long dead people sundenly come out of the tomb to meet their old friends. 2011-04-28T07:38:38 i know i liked the series with adrian paul 2011-04-28T07:38:48 and you such a good explanation for why the immortal fight and where they come from. 2011-04-28T07:38:59 The first highlander is cult though. 2011-04-28T07:39:07 to match up matrix in fact. 2011-04-28T07:39:15 the first one once again. 2011-04-28T07:39:23 What "seed" means? Is was added to ruby starter pack, but I don't see it in specification 2011-04-28T07:39:33 seed mean an int 2011-04-28T07:39:39 that is used to seed random generator. 2011-04-28T07:39:48 for food? 2011-04-28T07:40:00 in theory it could be anything. But ussually it would be an int. 2011-04-28T07:40:15 for anything random really. 2011-04-28T07:40:30 it's to be able to reproduce game? 2011-04-28T07:40:30 if your bot what to make random choices. 2011-04-28T07:41:01 yeah. so that despite it goes random, same seed produce same random sequence. 2011-04-28T07:41:19 watch out for seeding with time later 2011-04-28T07:41:48 (havent seen the code just saying) 2011-04-28T07:42:07 i you use C langage you don't need that. Because most c program will have out of bound write instructions wich will produce random behaviors :p 2011-04-28T07:42:28 :) 2011-04-28T07:43:09 *** delt0r has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) 2011-04-28T07:43:23 *** delt0r has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T07:44:41 wooo, someone actually uses my Ruby starter pack? 2011-04-28T07:44:48 or were you just browsing the code? ;) 2011-04-28T07:45:09 no, I just saw commit comments :) 2011-04-28T07:51:27 *** orivej has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-04-28T07:51:56 I will be the only person using my D starter :-| 2011-04-28T07:53:27 *** orivej has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T07:55:10 i wonter what will be most used 2011-04-28T07:55:13 i suspect java or python 2011-04-28T07:55:20 wonder*** 2011-04-28T07:56:26 an australian aboriginal just drunk the pee of a frog which hid under the dry mud in the desert 2011-04-28T07:57:17 frontier u be damned :) 2011-04-28T07:58:23 wtf^? 2011-04-28T07:59:11 frontier sent me a bbc nature video link 2011-04-28T07:59:22 and i was browsing around that channel 2011-04-28T08:00:32 well, if you were in the desert with no water you would make camels vomit and dring frog pee ;) 2011-04-28T08:00:52 aaaaaaaa 2011-04-28T08:01:13 maybe i dont come close to the desert 2011-04-28T08:01:53 but very good vids, entertaining 2011-04-28T08:03:09 i've never been to a desert 2011-04-28T08:03:14 and i live in australia 2011-04-28T08:04:04 *** boegel has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T08:05:10 i suppose a very large portion of australia is desert 2011-04-28T08:05:14 *** boegel has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-04-28T08:06:06 i would really like to visit the sydney hacking underground :) 2011-04-28T08:06:12 legends were born there 2011-04-28T08:09:00 tassie <3 2011-04-28T08:09:09 bur seriously you all have noticed that superman as clark ken wore it's superman outfit under his wall-stree suit right ? 2011-04-28T08:09:38 But ... the big red cloak. What about it ? Where in hell does he hide it ? it's important guys. Help me. 2011-04-28T08:10:41 Well it's true that seeing how the outfit resists bullets it's probably alien cloth. Maybe kryptonian coton is invulnerable as well. And very thin. 2011-04-28T08:10:54 rly? i thought he changed 2011-04-28T08:11:08 you never watched superman ? 2011-04-28T08:11:19 well erm ehh 2011-04-28T08:11:20 stocha: maybe he had secret pocket on his back 2011-04-28T08:11:21 At least have a look at the show "lois and clark" 2011-04-28T08:11:32 i think i did 2011-04-28T08:11:38 those were movies right 2011-04-28T08:11:39 like bike messabgers 2011-04-28T08:11:40 ? 2011-04-28T08:11:52 he was a little boy i remember 2011-04-28T08:11:57 simply google "lois and clark" and look at the pictures. 2011-04-28T08:12:02 and a farmer brought him up 2011-04-28T08:12:17 best trick ever played on people: http://www.swr.de/verstehen-sie-spass/videos/-/id=3606784/did=7893490/pv=video/nid=3606784/of80i0/index.html (one woman says "I'm from another star, obviously" - maybe Krypton) 2011-04-28T08:12:45 i don't remember that movie very well, but i still think he would wear the superman outfit beneath the wall street one. 2011-04-28T08:13:06 this lois and clark is too erotic 2011-04-28T08:13:12 stocha: me too 2011-04-28T08:13:14 ? 2011-04-28T08:14:49 HAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHA 2011-04-28T08:15:10 falling from 7th floor ? 2011-04-28T08:15:11 i wish i understand what shes saying 2011-04-28T08:15:23 don't tell me he posted a deutch video. 2011-04-28T08:15:26 look at the link sotocha 2011-04-28T08:15:29 that reminds me of the story of the russian guy who got pissed off at his wife/gf 2011-04-28T08:15:36 after drinking like 2 bottles of vodka 2011-04-28T08:15:47 jumped out the window of like a 7? story building 2011-04-28T08:15:49 i can hardly put the sound on. i just browsered quickly and steathilly trhough the video 2011-04-28T08:16:02 came back up not badly hurt, she was calling an ambulance or something 2011-04-28T08:16:06 he got annoyed so jumped out again 2011-04-28T08:16:20 antimatroid: we, russians, are all like that 2011-04-28T08:16:35 Ice_Harley: i wouldn't accept evidence to the contrary :) 2011-04-28T08:16:52 i have heard that russian people value friendship so much, they could buy a house for the best friend. is that exact ? 2011-04-28T08:17:13 *** sigh_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T08:17:22 I would like to have such friend ) 2011-04-28T08:17:48 mm, so it's not true i would guess. at least not true anymore. because you are russian right ? 2011-04-28T08:17:50 for the best girlfriend, maybe ) 2011-04-28T08:18:01 best girlfriend? 2011-04-28T08:18:05 dobriei dien and such. 2011-04-28T08:18:09 how many girlfriends does the typical russian have? 2011-04-28T08:18:29 he doesn't remember. too much vodka :p 2011-04-28T08:18:33 ukrainian to be exact, but not much difference 2011-04-28T08:18:38 too much not vodka* 2011-04-28T08:18:42 *** sigh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2011-04-28T08:18:49 Frontier: its just a simple glass with the similar girls right? 2011-04-28T08:18:59 the->two 2011-04-28T08:19:02 they are gemini. 2011-04-28T08:19:14 twins 2011-04-28T08:19:19 yeah you are right, but it is confusing, isn't it? 2011-04-28T08:19:23 it's classical joke. I have seen it on frensh television, some years back. 2011-04-28T08:19:37 u can see they dont movie exactly in synchron 2011-04-28T08:19:44 but its good 2011-04-28T08:19:56 ja 2011-04-28T08:20:34 stocha: I'd love to see the french version, too. everyone reacts differently, hehe 2011-04-28T08:20:47 they don't have to do it exactly synchronised coz ppl are too much ocncerned on themselves 2011-04-28T08:21:37 FUCK YEAH 2011-04-28T08:21:41 no apologies for the language 2011-04-28T08:21:45 new south park is out 2011-04-28T08:21:47 my favourite show 2011-04-28T08:21:50 i liked the ending where the two other women were like "now look! your mirror image is misbehaving, too! we are not crazy!" and the actress just moves out like it was normal 2011-04-28T08:21:52 stocha: dobriy den, yes ) good day 2011-04-28T08:24:23 interesting, how many people here know russian. In PlanetWars top-ranking were many russian-speaking. I think _iouri_ is from russian family 2011-04-28T08:24:36 im afraid that the above joke will be possible in the future 2011-04-28T08:24:46 laughing man? 2011-04-28T08:24:56 i'm disappointed by the lack of south park love 2011-04-28T08:25:36 i loved southpark and didnt like simpsons 2011-04-28T08:26:00 but i grew up eventually 2011-04-28T08:26:09 :) 2011-04-28T08:27:08 remember the Brown Note? 2011-04-28T08:29:02 *** kaemo has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2011-04-28T08:30:25 there is no growing out of south park 2011-04-28T08:30:31 yes 2011-04-28T08:30:41 beaver damn is possibly my favourite episode of south park 2011-04-28T08:30:47 season 9 was great 2011-04-28T08:31:04 it probably helped that i saw south park right at the start 2011-04-28T08:31:10 it hasn't been as great lately though 2011-04-28T08:32:47 i tryed a few lesson of russian at some point. but i didn't go further :p 2011-04-28T08:33:14 i'm not sure it's really more complicated than hungarian. For simply have enough to be able to follow simple conversation stuff. 2011-04-28T08:33:34 i definetly need hungarian first. 2011-04-28T08:34:33 Language is a fascinating data structure. i don't understand it. 2011-04-28T08:34:35 *** ahmedhelal has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-04-28T08:34:56 so twisted. Like a real life animal really. 2011-04-28T08:35:33 i started russian and japanese with Rosetta Stone 2011-04-28T08:36:11 i went through the first lessons of japaneese also. that one seems quite easy. (to listen to. Not to read obviously :p ) 2011-04-28T08:36:15 i think if someone is serious about learning any of it, u have to get ur hands dirty with real books 2011-04-28T08:36:46 these so called language softwares are woth jackshit 2011-04-28T08:37:29 I think having a few work vocabulary is enough with foreign langage. So you can speak simply meaning. And follow simple conversation. it's a lot easier than true language learning. 2011-04-28T08:37:50 work= word simply=simple 2011-04-28T08:38:11 now it makes more sense:) 2011-04-28T08:38:21 mcstar: you learnt japaneese with books ? :p 2011-04-28T08:38:33 i tried software 2011-04-28T08:38:37 than videos 2011-04-28T08:38:44 then a book 2011-04-28T08:39:01 the videos are easy, and actually theres knowledge in them 2011-04-28T08:39:06 written Japanese is like chinese to me. 2011-04-28T08:39:15 but eventually u have to pick up books 2011-04-28T08:39:20 what kind of video ? 2011-04-28T08:39:40 well, its easier first u have to use latin phonetic trnscription 2011-04-28T08:39:55 u dont need kanji characters 2011-04-28T08:40:15 and theres hiragana and katakana which is also easier than kanji 2011-04-28T08:40:35 the Althouse series 2011-04-28T08:41:07 an american lady, Something Althouse teaches u jap. in Tokyo 2011-04-28T08:41:09 but you won't be able to read a newspaper with those. 2011-04-28T08:41:14 in time 2011-04-28T08:41:17 i mean sur enot 2011-04-28T08:41:21 but its a start 2011-04-28T08:41:49 but there are more important things to worry about 2011-04-28T08:41:58 ai-challenge/thesis 2011-04-28T08:42:13 oh, and earning some money so i wont starve to death 2011-04-28T08:42:20 *** UncleVasya has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T08:42:24 chinese seems to be a very promising language to know in the coming years though. i wonder if i should do something to encourage my girl to learn then when they are 6 and up. 2011-04-28T08:42:48 this ai-challenge is quite messy at this point :p 2011-04-28T08:42:51 muizi, muizi 2011-04-28T08:43:02 means sorry 2011-04-28T08:43:21 what's that ? muizi ? what language. 2011-04-28T08:43:30 if you watch enough donnie yen films u will know chinese 2011-04-28T08:43:39 i transcriebd it in hungarian 2011-04-28T08:43:47 if u say it means sorry in chinese 2011-04-28T08:43:51 i struggle with english 2011-04-28T08:44:02 and they say it twice 2011-04-28T08:44:03 chinese is hard to speak, hard to listen too. And harder still to write. 2011-04-28T08:44:06 and that's my only language 2011-04-28T08:44:17 ur mothertongue? 2011-04-28T08:44:17 i can also count to like 30 in french 2011-04-28T08:44:23 en de twa... 2011-04-28T08:44:31 (my pronounciation isn't great) 2011-04-28T08:44:36 and i know pleteau or whatever 2011-04-28T08:44:40 which is like fuck in french 2011-04-28T08:44:46 merde 2011-04-28T08:44:47 shit 2011-04-28T08:44:50 french counting system is quite messy also. 2011-04-28T08:45:06 putain? 2011-04-28T08:45:11 whats that? 2011-04-28T08:45:14 i always find the ay weird for 21, 31, etc. 2011-04-28T08:45:16 un deux trois. 2011-04-28T08:45:26 like tront ay er 2011-04-28T08:45:27 tron de 2011-04-28T08:45:30 ... 2011-04-28T08:45:33 pleteau ? i don't know that one. 2011-04-28T08:45:42 putain 2011-04-28T08:45:51 is it cursing? 2011-04-28T08:46:04 i've been told it's basically the equivalent of fuck in french 2011-04-28T08:46:05 it's quite strong strong. As strong as "fuck". 2011-04-28T08:46:06 from more than one person 2011-04-28T08:46:12 same use i guess. 2011-04-28T08:47:06 It design those women that are using their body to get monney up in the streets. 2011-04-28T08:47:14 whore 2011-04-28T08:47:17 yeah 2011-04-28T08:47:52 google translate doesnt recognize pleteau 2011-04-28T08:49:04 how far in the future is natural language translation? 2011-04-28T08:49:19 total, correct, machine translation? 2011-04-28T08:49:26 im not up to date on the subject :) 2011-04-28T08:49:50 is it like fusion-reactors? 2011-04-28T08:51:35 *** orivej has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2011-04-28T08:52:16 i don't recognize pleteau either :p 2011-04-28T08:52:34 even when i try hard. 2011-04-28T08:53:22 natural langage translation at this point mainly use statisticall rules. 2011-04-28T08:53:58 so you use a set of text in one language with the corresponding set of text using correct translation in the other langage 2011-04-28T08:54:20 exactly what google traslate doing 2011-04-28T08:54:22 then you apply statisticall learning algorithm. As far as i know it's still what google do. Although they have lot of data 2011-04-28T08:55:21 i wonder how costly this is 2011-04-28T08:55:37 the translation is instant, but google has tremendous processing power 2011-04-28T08:55:51 i wonder if it were this fast on a single core 2011-04-28T08:56:00 if data IO werent an issue 2011-04-28T08:56:19 i don't think the current method is slow. Once the learning is done. 2011-04-28T08:56:28 but the result is crappy. 2011-04-28T08:57:06 well, machines dont understand context 2011-04-28T08:57:17 *** jbroman_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T08:57:20 only one kind of machine 2011-04-28T08:57:29 the one called human 2011-04-28T08:58:00 *** aerique_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T08:58:10 the langage data structure is quite complex. A litle bit like adn structure in fact :p 2011-04-28T08:58:41 But meaning structure is complex also. And the two do not always shares common behavior. (language and meaning) really weird design. 2011-04-28T08:59:00 adn? 2011-04-28T08:59:05 yet powerfull. A bit like a human brain/body design really, or ant body/nervous system really. 2011-04-28T08:59:07 dna 2011-04-28T08:59:10 oh 2011-04-28T08:59:19 *** jbroman has quit IRC (*.net *.split) 2011-04-28T08:59:19 *** aerique has quit IRC (*.net *.split) 2011-04-28T08:59:19 *** slkjcna_ has quit IRC (*.net *.split) 2011-04-28T08:59:20 desoxyribonucleic stuff 2011-04-28T08:59:26 i thought its some computer sciencish data structure 2011-04-28T08:59:36 it is now. 2011-04-28T08:59:38 and im not schooled in comp. science :) 2011-04-28T08:59:49 you have huge data base of adn sequences. 2011-04-28T09:00:02 quite a research field for data base and pattern matching really. 2011-04-28T09:00:08 they say it might be tainted 2011-04-28T09:00:29 comp science is not a science. 2011-04-28T09:00:42 why not? 2011-04-28T09:00:43 it's merely a very young and messy ingineering field. 2011-04-28T09:00:57 so anyone can be proficient at it. If they spend quite some time practicing. 2011-04-28T09:01:04 i have no problem calling it science 2011-04-28T09:01:17 science should use scientific methods. 2011-04-28T09:01:32 i dont mean com. science is about writing code 2011-04-28T09:01:38 which some "scientist" tend to forget these days also. it seems. 2011-04-28T09:01:48 algorith theory, complexity theory 2011-04-28T09:01:57 that's mathematical. 2011-04-28T09:01:58 these stuffs arent easy 2011-04-28T09:02:01 wich is not science. 2011-04-28T09:02:07 *** slkjcna has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T09:02:14 u mean math is not science? 2011-04-28T09:02:18 yeah. 2011-04-28T09:02:20 exactly :) 2011-04-28T09:02:26 hm 2011-04-28T09:02:37 i thnk i strongly disagree :) 2011-04-28T09:02:51 science use math. Math doesn't use antyhing; But mathematician names in order to make stuff impossible to remember and understand. 2011-04-28T09:03:20 math sometimes uses physics, experience 2011-04-28T09:03:32 those ideas arent comeing from NOTHING 2011-04-28T09:03:49 people find them out 2011-04-28T09:03:56 http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/gz7t8/why_was_my_reddit_account_deleted/ 2011-04-28T09:03:57 lol reddit 2011-04-28T09:04:05 and they use theyre own analogues, adn experiences with many things 2011-04-28T09:04:15 adn->and 2011-04-28T09:04:17 not dna 2011-04-28T09:05:09 mathematician ? 2011-04-28T09:05:31 have you looked at Cantor theory ? 2011-04-28T09:06:01 set theory? 2011-04-28T09:06:05 arguably some (great) mathematician of his time state it was just non sense. 2011-04-28T09:06:13 yeah i guess it's called set theory 2011-04-28T09:06:19 with cantor diagonal proof and such. 2011-04-28T09:06:58 lol, did you just say set theory is nonsense? 2011-04-28T09:07:04 he ended his life into a house for crazy people i believe. But some people still think it's a good theory. 2011-04-28T09:07:18 i said that some great mathematician alive when cantor was said that. 2011-04-28T09:07:23 but i can say it too. 2011-04-28T09:07:25 ah yeah :P 2011-04-28T09:07:25 sorry 2011-04-28T09:07:35 watch me : set theory is non sendse. 2011-04-28T09:07:36 well cantor was an idiot 2011-04-28T09:07:48 like boltzmann 2011-04-28T09:08:00 he had 50 years advance from his time. 2011-04-28T09:08:03 they couldnt accept that there are stupid people 2011-04-28T09:08:12 and THIS made them stupid too 2011-04-28T09:08:20 but this is totally irrelevant 2011-04-28T09:08:44 i'm not sure i'm following you mcstar. 2011-04-28T09:08:54 your meaning i mean. 2011-04-28T09:09:11 im just saying that they shouldnt commit suicide 2011-04-28T09:09:19 whom ? 2011-04-28T09:09:33 botzmann for example 2011-04-28T09:09:43 and there are other examples 2011-04-28T09:09:57 maybe godel too? 2011-04-28T09:10:02 i cant remember 2011-04-28T09:10:42 you mean all the people that used set theory to proove some stuff ? 2011-04-28T09:11:28 gödel starved himself to death 2011-04-28T09:11:42 abel was killed in a foolish duel 2011-04-28T09:12:04 ted kazinchky was the unabomber 2011-04-28T09:12:07 i didn't knew that. 2011-04-28T09:12:25 turing 2011-04-28T09:12:29 turing was gay 2011-04-28T09:12:35 but that explain how this thing lived up this time. There were lots of crazy people involved :p 2011-04-28T09:12:39 the government treated him with hormones 2011-04-28T09:12:45 he went nuts too 2011-04-28T09:13:27 then he died of cyadine poisoning 2011-04-28T09:13:41 so its all crazy 2011-04-28T09:13:59 there are examples of physicists to besides boltzamnn 2011-04-28T09:14:26 theres majorana who went missing, porbably killed himself too, not sure 2011-04-28T09:15:19 i dont know any more from the top of my head 2011-04-28T09:15:39 i learned abel theorem once. 2011-04-28T09:15:48 it was like integration. 2011-04-28T09:15:53 but with integer. 2011-04-28T09:16:03 no set theory involved. 2011-04-28T09:16:18 which is abel's theorem? 2011-04-28T09:16:38 that no closed solution exists to >=5h order polynomials? 2011-04-28T09:16:55 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abel's_theorem 2011-04-28T09:17:05 i don't think no :p 2011-04-28T09:17:13 it's releated to series of real number 2011-04-28T09:17:14 oh 2011-04-28T09:17:25 with sum of a^n stuff i think. 2011-04-28T09:17:43 i didnt know about this 2011-04-28T09:17:57 i started to read his other proof 2011-04-28T09:18:17 the one with the roots of >5th order integer coeffcient polynomials 2011-04-28T09:18:27 it looks more like series of complex number in this article 2011-04-28T09:19:09 i didn't really spend much time studying. i only happen to remember this one because of special happening. 2011-04-28T09:24:09 galois is abel? 2011-04-28T09:24:51 nein 2011-04-28T09:25:06 ah galois did duel right 2011-04-28T09:25:11 and abel died of poor health 2011-04-28T09:25:15 doesnt matter 2011-04-28T09:26:31 im sure if i were that smart i would value my life more 2011-04-28T09:27:51 stocha: this theorem is interesting 2011-04-28T09:28:10 theres some hidden non-triviality in theres 2011-04-28T09:28:11 -s 2011-04-28T09:28:54 but cant be too hard to prove considering that complex continuity is such a bliss 2011-04-28T09:31:44 We had an assignment, where 200 person would have to explain what idea the theorem was built on. 2011-04-28T09:32:04 the first to submit the right solution would have a bonus to his math notes. 2011-04-28T09:32:07 quite a big one. 2011-04-28T09:32:27 i was that person :p . I really help, because i ended up with 3. 2011-04-28T09:32:35 It really helped. 2011-04-28T09:32:38 3/20 2011-04-28T09:32:41 *** orivej has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T09:33:13 probably saved my diploma in fact. 2011-04-28T09:33:31 that's why i remember vaguely what it is about :p 2011-04-28T09:34:46 *** MatmaRex has left #aichallenge 2011-04-28T09:35:42 *** kaemo has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T09:36:11 *** rstrong has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal) 2011-04-28T09:37:06 *** boegel has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T09:39:04 I remember the thoerem as a theorem over real numbers though. And not complex. 2011-04-28T09:41:38 *** Kingpin13 has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T09:42:08 *** orivej has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-04-28T09:43:21 mcstar: would you be a math student 2011-04-28T09:43:49 physics 2011-04-28T09:44:03 but lately im interested in math 2011-04-28T09:47:56 i guess u applied lower and upper bounds by integrals and then took the limit? 2011-04-28T09:48:41 but i think it can be done without resorting to these higher constructs as integrals 2011-04-28T09:51:37 *** FireFly has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T09:54:19 I think i simply showed that the demonstration for prooving integral formulae and this one was alike. 2011-04-28T09:55:08 With swtiching the integral sign with a Sigma one. 2011-04-28T09:58:22 i don't really want to dig to much in those memories. To much stuff is associated in there. 2011-04-28T09:58:39 haha 2011-04-28T09:58:57 u didnt drink enough to make room for new memories then 2011-04-28T10:01:26 i never drink alcohol. 2011-04-28T10:02:04 good for you 2011-04-28T10:02:25 but in this i didnt drink yet 2011-04-28T10:02:32 this year 2011-04-28T10:02:40 i have this problem with some memories that are distributed randomly through time. And they all awfully seems like yesterday. That causes lots of problem. Nostalgia being one of them. 2011-04-28T10:03:16 i cant imagine that 2011-04-28T10:03:31 There are all sort of stuff into this. But imagine anystrong feeling that took years to overcome. And sundenly it's yestarday. 2011-04-28T10:03:33 i usually dont remember what happened in the past 2011-04-28T10:04:05 i mean i know i grew up somehow, but i cant recall all the details 2011-04-28T10:04:09 People that i was closely related to sudenly don't remember me. Etc :p 2011-04-28T10:04:23 o 2011-04-28T10:04:24 h 2011-04-28T10:04:27 weird 2011-04-28T10:04:36 that's because 20 years have passed. 2011-04-28T10:04:53 but for me the feeling are as strong as if it was simply yesterday. 2011-04-28T10:04:58 although i had forgot for like 10 years. 2011-04-28T10:05:23 they would sundenly bloom out to life again. Only to find out the world has changed. 2011-04-28T10:07:00 that makes the world of relationship a strange place indeed. 2011-04-28T10:10:02 well 2011-04-28T10:10:20 i think it can be proven by considering the reverse triangle and triangle inequality 2011-04-28T10:11:32 but maybe a stronger version is required because of the infinite sum 2011-04-28T10:11:55 the resulting series might not be convergent 2011-04-28T10:11:58 hm 2011-04-28T10:12:53 will you make an ant bot ? 2011-04-28T10:13:07 i will try 2011-04-28T10:13:49 you? 2011-04-28T10:16:26 *** berak has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [SeaMonkey 2.0a3/20090223135443]) 2011-04-28T10:17:02 *** orivej has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T10:17:34 *** sigh_ has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-04-28T10:18:10 i have made some bot already. In my won ant framework. And i released a java bot in the official framework that is freely available for testing purposes. 2011-04-28T10:18:30 although it seems that some people had it taking more than 1s on some 32 bit systems. 2011-04-28T10:18:59 But for now, i think i'll just wait to see where the ruleset is going. 2011-04-28T10:19:34 i will use common lisp 2011-04-28T10:19:42 i'll have a look at the topology if real challenge game, and see where to put my energy. If i have time enougth in the first place. 2011-04-28T10:20:13 becarefull. Time management will play a big role. You could end up with thousands of ants. Depending on the final topology. 2011-04-28T10:20:24 ok 2011-04-28T10:20:28 im not there yet 2011-04-28T10:20:41 i first have to learn the language 2011-04-28T10:20:44 i think it's okay to try a bit, and see how the game feel though :p 2011-04-28T10:20:56 you have to learn lisp ? 2011-04-28T10:20:59 mcstar: better get started then! 2011-04-28T10:21:08 i already did 2011-04-28T10:21:13 mcstar: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 2011-04-28T10:21:18 mcstar: ah good 2011-04-28T10:21:22 for a couple of weeks im learning lisp 2011-04-28T10:21:30 i saw that one 2011-04-28T10:21:34 there's also #lisp on freenode 2011-04-28T10:21:41 okay so you want to build a bot to improve your lisp then. why not. 2011-04-28T10:21:48 im reading paul grahams On Lisp 2011-04-28T10:22:07 awesome 2011-04-28T10:22:22 in 2004 i met lisp 2011-04-28T10:22:28 as far as i can remember 2011-04-28T10:22:34 i though it was cool 2011-04-28T10:22:41 but i abandoned it 2011-04-28T10:22:46 cause i had no use for it then 2011-04-28T10:22:55 first of all i was a ohysics student 2011-04-28T10:23:21 but nowadays im interested in computation and algorithms 2011-04-28T10:23:40 and i found lisp to be the language to learn 2011-04-28T10:24:10 i had projects in c,c++, python 2011-04-28T10:24:23 im not expert but im familiar with those 2011-04-28T10:24:33 the other alternative was haskell 2011-04-28T10:24:45 23. Practical: A Spam Filter. interesting 2011-04-28T10:25:21 i wonder if lisp is really the thing for the ant game though. 2011-04-28T10:25:29 oh sure :) 2011-04-28T10:25:38 where are there list in there :p 2011-04-28T10:25:46 i don't use list in my current framework. 2011-04-28T10:25:57 u dont have to use lists 2011-04-28T10:26:04 there are vetors, objects 2011-04-28T10:26:07 anything really 2011-04-28T10:26:18 the code itself is a LIST 2011-04-28T10:26:20 hence the name 2011-04-28T10:26:25 stocha: he's not using LISP 1.5 from 1959 :-) there's more data structures nowadays 2011-04-28T10:26:26 i though lisp was good at processing lists. 2011-04-28T10:26:36 :) 2011-04-28T10:26:40 its the name 2011-04-28T10:26:48 and probably maps. 2011-04-28T10:27:06 u dont have to be fully functional if you dont want to be 2011-04-28T10:27:11 but i have no lists nor maps in my current framework. Although arguably the current framework is not meant to build really strong bots. 2011-04-28T10:27:16 thats the problem with haskell 2011-04-28T10:27:29 i couldnt get my head around to think fullly functional 2011-04-28T10:27:31 i only use bitoperations and rotations so far. 2011-04-28T10:27:43 wich lisp will hardly be good for. 2011-04-28T10:28:00 even if i could speak lispian in the first place. 2011-04-28T10:28:38 I like the functionnal thinking. I don't like the functional languages. 2011-04-28T10:28:52 o.O 2011-04-28T10:29:00 hows that? 2011-04-28T10:29:18 maybe functional language are just macroassembler in the end. and bad one at that :p 2011-04-28T10:29:36 let me paste u a little code 2011-04-28T10:29:41 i just have to find it 2011-04-28T10:29:47 okay 2011-04-28T10:29:54 it can't hurt me i guess :p 2011-04-28T10:30:05 *** orivej has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-04-28T10:30:06 fibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith (+) fibs (tail fibs) 2011-04-28T10:30:18 this generates in O(n) the fibonacci sequence 2011-04-28T10:30:21 in haskell 2011-04-28T10:30:34 its data 2011-04-28T10:30:38 not a function 2011-04-28T10:31:26 it hurt a little when i saw this the first time, its soo beautiful 2011-04-28T10:32:21 it is lazy evaluated stuff, right? 2011-04-28T10:32:26 aha 2011-04-28T10:32:29 at its best :) 2011-04-28T10:32:47 u have to say 2011-04-28T10:32:52 take 20 fibs 2011-04-28T10:32:55 for example 2011-04-28T10:33:23 what's zipWith ? 2011-04-28T10:33:36 *** aerique_ has quit IRC (Quit: ...) 2011-04-28T10:33:54 well applies the + function to the elements of its two lists in pairs 2011-04-28T10:34:42 u see, + is a function, it has to be paranthesized 2011-04-28T10:35:01 how does it do time wise ? 2011-04-28T10:35:08 O(n) 2011-04-28T10:35:09 *** aerique has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T10:35:22 not like plain recursion 2011-04-28T10:35:50 i'm not sure i really understand what's going on in there then :p 2011-04-28T10:36:30 : is concatenation 2011-04-28T10:36:30 would you write a simple factorial to begin with ? :p 2011-04-28T10:36:42 el1 : list 2011-04-28T10:36:46 *** aerique has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-04-28T10:36:57 so fibs is a variable 2011-04-28T10:37:10 which is of type integer list 2011-04-28T10:37:16 *** woudshoo has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T10:37:19 the first element 0 2011-04-28T10:37:23 second 1 2011-04-28T10:37:35 and rest is given as an instruction 2011-04-28T10:37:45 i figured this much 0:1: 2011-04-28T10:37:55 then i don't know what's going on. 2011-04-28T10:37:55 if you have the fibonacci sequence 2011-04-28T10:38:04 the removing its frst element 2011-04-28T10:38:12 than adding to it the sequence again 2011-04-28T10:38:16 is equals 2011-04-28T10:38:25 the remaining list after 0,1 2011-04-28T10:38:36 its a property of the fibonacci sequence 2011-04-28T10:38:51 it is just simply written out in haskell 2011-04-28T10:38:59 and because of the lazy evaluation 2011-04-28T10:39:05 u wont get an infinite list 2011-04-28T10:39:15 what is fibonaci ? An= An-1+An-2 ? 2011-04-28T10:39:16 of course if u were to print fibs 2011-04-28T10:39:21 then it wont stop :) 2011-04-28T10:39:27 yes 2011-04-28T10:39:39 f(n-1)+f(n-2)=f(n) 2011-04-28T10:40:31 i still don't understand the syntax. nor what the fib variable is useful for. 2011-04-28T10:40:43 fibs 2011-04-28T10:40:44 the fibs contains the list 2011-04-28T10:40:53 fibs is an infinite list then. 2011-04-28T10:40:56 so. 2011-04-28T10:40:57 yes 2011-04-28T10:41:05 but it doesnt get evaluated 2011-04-28T10:41:10 i don't see what the list looks like by looking at the code. 2011-04-28T10:41:22 and don't know how to use the lists itself 2011-04-28T10:41:26 it is exactly like the mathematical definition 2011-04-28T10:41:50 i understand you f(n-1) notation better :p 2011-04-28T10:42:39 fibs=0,1,1,2,3,5,8 2011-04-28T10:42:44 its part of fibs 2011-04-28T10:42:51 tail fibs 2011-04-28T10:42:56 1,1,2,3,5,8 2011-04-28T10:43:09 fibs+tail(fibs) 2011-04-28T10:43:16 1,3,5,8... 2011-04-28T10:43:29 0:1:1,3,5,8 2011-04-28T10:43:40 0,1,1,3,3,5,8 2011-04-28T10:43:46 sorry 2 is left out :) 2011-04-28T10:43:53 but i think u get my point 2011-04-28T10:44:05 just imagine the fib, sequence laid out 2011-04-28T10:44:15 cut off the first element 2011-04-28T10:44:22 add to fibs again 2011-04-28T10:44:24 + is list concatenation ? 2011-04-28T10:44:26 element-wise 2011-04-28T10:44:27 antimatroid around? 2011-04-28T10:44:34 no 2011-04-28T10:44:43 zipwith is like: 2011-04-28T10:45:00 (1 2 3)+(4 5 6)=(5,7,9) 2011-04-28T10:45:11 mmm 2011-04-28T10:45:19 ok? 2011-04-28T10:45:33 it just adds up two lists elemnt-wise 2011-04-28T10:45:38 : is concatenation 2011-04-28T10:45:48 1:(2 3)=(1 2 3) 2011-04-28T10:46:18 but in haskell u have to use , 2011-04-28T10:46:18 i was wondering any reason why the engine doesn't keep ant_ids for each ant 2011-04-28T10:46:32 would make it a lot easier in the starter bots to keep persistent objects for each ant 2011-04-28T10:46:34 hihi 2011-04-28T10:47:00 instead of having to do a hacky job of iterating list of ants to find same ants and tracking whch ones died and which ones moved etc etc 2011-04-28T10:47:38 like if i wanted to track a per ant tracking data its pretty painful to do right now 2011-04-28T10:48:02 I had a long argument over that when writing the visualizer. I finally got my ant ids :-) 2011-04-28T10:48:05 my wife is at budapest right now. she will take a plane soon. 2011-04-28T10:48:12 you did? 2011-04-28T10:48:36 u want me to wave for her? 2011-04-28T10:48:45 i did get ant ids, now it is even a different matter since i get just one text line per ant. 2011-04-28T10:48:59 obviously i can assign a number to each line there 2011-04-28T10:49:07 but that is not required to be consistent 2011-04-28T10:49:08 she would be in the airport i guess. 2011-04-28T10:49:11 across turns 2011-04-28T10:49:31 there are no separate turns in the replay data i process 2011-04-28T10:49:43 ah 2011-04-28T10:50:03 the engine track every ant and assign them ids ? 2011-04-28T10:50:12 yes 2011-04-28T10:50:19 then why not send that. 2011-04-28T10:50:22 to the bots. 2011-04-28T10:50:26 oh it doesn't do it today 2011-04-28T10:50:29 i mean it would break everything i guess. 2011-04-28T10:50:30 but it should be a trivial thing 2011-04-28T10:50:31 to add 2011-04-28T10:50:53 ids may give away information about the other players 2011-04-28T10:50:57 doesn't have to 2011-04-28T10:50:59 ah the engine don't track each ant at the moment then. how does it build the output file then ? 2011-04-28T10:51:04 can be a random id 2011-04-28T10:51:07 as long as its consistent 2011-04-28T10:51:08 doe 2011-04-28T10:51:18 oh well, ask sigh about it :) 2011-04-28T10:51:25 i can also be ids local for players. 2011-04-28T10:51:27 it probably just tracks them as a list 2011-04-28T10:51:37 like they do with player id in fact. 2011-04-28T10:51:41 haven't looked at the code 2011-04-28T10:51:47 a protocol change would be considered bad now 2011-04-28T10:52:16 the spec is suppose to be fully open. i have heard. 2011-04-28T10:52:27 until beta. 2011-04-28T10:52:45 although i doubt people will accept that in the facts. if it means breaking everything :p 2011-04-28T10:52:54 ok, but all starter bots need to be adapted to it, including mine :( 2011-04-28T10:53:05 It's not the first time that i see someone asking for ant ids. 2011-04-28T10:53:18 that's true 2011-04-28T10:53:18 its just the ant parsing 2011-04-28T10:53:21 line 2011-04-28T10:53:26 bots can just ignore the id for now 2011-04-28T10:53:40 and let the end user modify it and read it if they need to 2011-04-28T10:53:45 yeah but you have to close starter bot dev at some point. 2011-04-28T10:53:55 some people that wrote them might not be here. 2011-04-28T10:54:05 oh well 2011-04-28T10:54:18 like the klingon bot. they guy left last week. So he won't be able to update it. 2011-04-28T10:54:26 agreed. they may not be here often or on holiday or whatever. 2011-04-28T10:55:05 In my experience changing spec, is hard to track for people. 2011-04-28T10:55:38 you would have some assuming nothing changed. when indeed it has changed. Mixing all features. 2011-04-28T10:55:40 the core developers are more likely to fix their code for late changes (i.e. replay format, database, ...) 2011-04-28T10:56:02 oh well, just a thought, i guess i will write something up client side for myself 2011-04-28T10:56:19 the problem is, a lot of people might write it. 2011-04-28T10:56:22 :-) what do you plan to do? 2011-04-28T10:56:25 i probably have to it too. 2011-04-28T10:56:43 although arguably i wouldn't benefit form the ant id sent by the server. 2011-04-28T10:57:24 i still need the tracking code. 2011-04-28T10:58:28 well mostly i will track 2 things per ant 2011-04-28T10:58:30 last location 2011-04-28T10:58:31 and last order 2011-04-28T10:58:39 rather new location 2011-04-28T10:58:51 and just match the new ant locations 2011-04-28T10:59:00 if the location i computed exists in new ant list 2011-04-28T10:59:01 keep it 2011-04-28T10:59:06 otherwise destroy the object 2011-04-28T10:59:27 for any locations not in the ant list create new ant objects 2011-04-28T10:59:49 so won't really have an id but will consistent objects that i update every turn 2011-04-28T11:01:37 I will write an ant that moves a frontier across the map. Maybe that will make sure there are always enough ants at any front location to fend off enemies. 2011-04-28T11:02:34 nah, bad idea. need to expand faster than that. but still I may assign somewhat complex tasks to idividual ants. 2011-04-28T11:03:04 you mean The Final Frontier? 2011-04-28T11:03:07 i am trying out a potential field based navigation 2011-04-28T11:03:16 and for that its easier if i can track per ant previous locations 2011-04-28T11:03:20 upto a certain number of turns 2011-04-28T11:03:24 so that it doesn't get stuck 2011-04-28T11:03:52 in a local maxima or a pair of local maxima's 2011-04-28T11:04:06 bhasker: That sounds good. I'll use it as well, but I'm not sure about how I will handle the water fields. My field may be suboptimal in many cases. 2011-04-28T11:04:32 i am just trying it out, as of now a simple bfs searching based bot 2011-04-28T11:04:40 beats it 2011-04-28T11:04:48 And in case I have too few ants, I want to visit squares again, that were out of view for a long time 2011-04-28T11:04:53 yup 2011-04-28T11:05:27 Frontier: i though you had no time to build a ant bot ? :p 2011-04-28T11:05:46 Don't remind me of that. 2011-04-28T11:06:58 did you closed your visualizer yet ? 2011-04-28T11:08:17 that's a good question. i'm a bit lazy atm. it seems to work ok, but I know some things are missing (speed adjustment, cpu usage setting, attack radius, graphics version) 2011-04-28T11:11:53 simply close it, and say another guy will have to implement the rest. 2011-04-28T11:12:02 as long as it is known. 2011-04-28T11:12:30 that's the principle of open software i guess. you can close up a project and hope for someone else to take it. 2011-04-28T11:12:50 wich tend to never happen in real life of course. but there it could. Because the visualizer will be used. 2011-04-28T11:15:28 *** UncleVasya has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-04-28T11:15:38 mcstar: Did you mean this masterpiece of everything we just talked about? http://www.metalinjection.net/tv/view/5364/iron-maiden-the-final-frontier-official-video 2011-04-28T11:16:06 haha 2011-04-28T11:16:12 definitely not 2011-04-28T11:16:23 Star Trek: The Final Frontier 2011-04-28T11:16:45 But it fit so well ^^ 2011-04-28T11:16:53 oh 2011-04-28T11:16:54 ESP 2011-04-28T11:17:26 unfortunately i had my share of iron made, my roomate loved it 2011-04-28T11:17:52 *** stocha has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-04-28T11:18:32 what is visualize_locally.py supposed to do? 2011-04-28T11:19:06 I think it is supposed to write a html file that embeds a replay file 2011-04-28T11:19:13 so you can load it up in a browser 2011-04-28T11:19:38 i started it and it didnt close 2011-04-28T11:19:48 you can also use visualizer.jar to load a local file through the command-line 2011-04-28T11:20:12 java -jar visualizer.jar ? 2011-04-28T11:20:13 I'm not sure, maybe something broke it. I think either sigh or McLeopold wrote it. 2011-04-28T11:20:25 java -jar visualizer.jar 2011-04-28T11:21:29 whats the difference between .java and .jar? 2011-04-28T11:21:45 oh first of all .java is source code 2011-04-28T11:21:55 it is compiled to one or more .class files 2011-04-28T11:22:14 .jar is basically a zip file from several .class files and resources like images 2011-04-28T11:22:39 can .java run directly? 2011-04-28T11:22:43 no 2011-04-28T11:23:07 java is not an interpreded language 2011-04-28T11:23:19 oh 2011-04-28T11:23:31 i always thought u can type java in jvm :) 2011-04-28T11:24:38 it is compiled to platform independent "byte code", the class files. there is also the option to compile java source right from within java. but some jvms may have difficulty garbage collecting the new classes and if you use it too much you run out of memory 2011-04-28T11:25:21 python and javascript can be interpreted 2011-04-28T11:25:54 can u package it to be a binary? 2011-04-28T11:26:16 i guess the whole jvm i required 2011-04-28T11:26:20 stupid question 2011-04-28T11:26:26 thats the point in java 2011-04-28T11:26:38 I know that the game minecraft uses a wrapper to make it an .exe, but it will just ask you to install a jvm :) 2011-04-28T11:27:36 i only recently got to know that javascript and java are two different things 2011-04-28T11:27:50 i thought javascript is a simpler java in browsers 2011-04-28T11:27:52 :) 2011-04-28T11:27:53 *** boegel has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2011-04-28T11:27:54 That was my impression and why I listed JavaScript ;) 2011-04-28T11:28:50 actually the visualizer.jar includes a JavaScript engine for Java and runs the same code as the web visualizer. 2011-04-28T11:29:07 It may be a little slow because of that ^^ 2011-04-28T11:30:05 *** jbroman_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-04-28T11:30:19 *** jbroman has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T11:30:55 *** amstan_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2011-04-28T11:31:28 to hell with filenames with spaces 2011-04-28T11:31:35 im trying to open testing.txt 2011-04-28T11:31:53 but vim starts a new file 2011-04-28T11:31:56 wtf i say 2011-04-28T11:32:10 well the file was called integration testing.txt 2011-04-28T11:33:17 that was a test I included. congrats! you are the first person to have trouble opening it ^^. 2011-04-28T11:33:26 :) 2011-04-28T11:47:30 *** berak has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T11:49:45 *** woudshoo has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-04-28T11:50:31 *** Ice_Harley has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-04-28T11:55:11 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T11:55:11 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2011-04-28T11:58:13 *** delt0r has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2011-04-28T11:58:24 @seen mcleopold 2011-04-28T11:58:24 amstan: mcleopold was last seen in #aichallenge 9 hours, 33 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: unless you're talking about the starter bot? 2011-04-28T12:03:11 *** UncleVasya has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T12:15:12 *** smiley1983 has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T12:17:25 *** Naktibalda has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0/20110318052756]) 2011-04-28T12:31:07 @seen sign 2011-04-28T12:31:07 bhasker: I have not seen sign. 2011-04-28T12:31:11 @seen sigh 2011-04-28T12:31:11 bhasker: sigh was last seen in #aichallenge 1 day, 3 hours, 49 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: oh... I was right, it's the syntax used before python 2.6 2011-04-28T12:32:13 amstan 2011-04-28T12:32:15 Traceback (most recent call last): 2011-04-28T12:32:15 File "../worker/engine.py", line 129, in run_game 2011-04-28T12:32:15 bot_moves = get_moves(game, bots, time_limit) 2011-04-28T12:32:15 File "../worker/engine.py", line 269, in get_moves 2011-04-28T12:32:15 if verbose: 2011-04-28T12:32:16 NameError: global name 'verbose' is not defined 2011-04-28T12:32:22 the engine throws that error when hits a timeout 2011-04-28T12:32:23 i think 2011-04-28T12:32:30 instead of really logging and terminating the bot 2011-04-28T12:32:33 is that expected? 2011-04-28T12:33:48 bhasker: NameError: global name 'verbose' is not defined is definatelly an unexpected error 2011-04-28T12:34:07 *** Cyndre has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T12:34:10 yup 2011-04-28T12:34:33 bhasker: submit a bug report, with your version, os, python version and what you did 2011-04-28T12:34:45 git log to see the commit number that you're at 2011-04-28T12:43:50 *** Chris_0076 has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T12:48:03 btw I wont be there on friday and saturday. 2011-04-28T12:52:35 will do 2011-04-28T12:54:26 *** Frontier has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2011-04-28T13:17:07 *** Frontier has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T13:20:26 *** Blkt has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T13:20:58 evening everyone 2011-04-28T13:28:19 how is the weather in italy? 2011-04-28T13:32:20 anyone have a mac who would like to play my bot against theirs 2011-04-28T13:32:25 i just want to see how it does against a real bot 2011-04-28T13:35:01 or windows? 2011-04-28T13:35:12 btw amstan 2011-04-28T13:35:20 how is it that i have 2x the number of ants 2011-04-28T13:35:23 but a smaller score? 2011-04-28T13:35:49 something doesn't seem right here 2011-04-28T13:35:50 *** boegel has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T13:38:12 *** stocha has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T13:38:18 some true wrapper exists for java. 2011-04-28T13:38:35 it build an .exe that can be executed autonomously 2011-04-28T13:38:48 when does this contest actually officially start? 2011-04-28T13:38:52 i guess most would not be free though. 2011-04-28T13:39:05 alkOn: at the end of the beta 2011-04-28T13:39:22 that's sort of self-evident 2011-04-28T13:39:26 when is that? 2011-04-28T13:39:34 later than that i hope. 2011-04-28T13:39:48 because they said the beta would go for like two weeks. 2011-04-28T13:40:00 wich is hardly enough to do any testing. 2011-04-28T13:40:29 anyway, i hope than soon after the beta start, the rules will be hardened enough that anyone can feel free to start real work. 2011-04-28T13:41:34 stocha how is the scoring done 2011-04-28T13:44:00 *** stocha_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T13:44:06 hopefully the wiki would be up to date on scoring. 2011-04-28T13:44:16 i can tell you what i remember to have heard 2011-04-28T13:44:26 you get point for every spawned ant 2011-04-28T13:44:39 and you get point for every ant your damage and that die 2011-04-28T13:44:50 you damage 2011-04-28T13:45:07 okay then how is it that i have 400 ants 2011-04-28T13:45:10 and the enemy has 90 2011-04-28T13:45:13 but i have a lower score:-\ 2011-04-28T13:45:16 then you get some bonus point if you are last standing 2011-04-28T13:45:32 i have 227 and enemy has 234 2011-04-28T13:45:33 :-\ 2011-04-28T13:45:39 the new scoring system may not be on yet 2011-04-28T13:45:52 *** stocha has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-04-28T13:46:10 i don't know who's working on this. 2011-04-28T13:46:19 oh okay 2011-04-28T13:46:19 did u use the last revision ? 2011-04-28T13:46:26 hmm let me pull the latest updates 2011-04-28T13:50:03 *** MatmaRex has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T13:50:38 *** stocha_ has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-04-28T13:51:14 *** MatmaRex has quit IRC (Changing host) 2011-04-28T13:51:14 *** MatmaRex has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T13:51:32 *** subgraphs has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T13:52:54 you can download my java bot for testing http://ns368394.ovh.net/stocha/StandardBotFh2_2/sto003_AdaptToContestbotLk.jar 2011-04-28T13:53:19 my server will not be up very much longer i guess. unless i find some money soon 2011-04-28T13:53:36 mm, i messed up my pseudo 2011-04-28T13:53:42 *** subgraphs has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-04-28T13:54:16 ah cool thanks 2011-04-28T13:58:37 *** Redgis has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T14:00:47 subgraph so how complex is your bot? 2011-04-28T14:03:59 the new scoring is done 2011-04-28T14:04:07 but sigh only did it in the last day or so 2011-04-28T14:06:13 ah the man i wanted to talk to 2011-04-28T14:07:55 what is the scoring model now antimatroid 2011-04-28T14:08:08 the specs page is up to date 2011-04-28T14:08:12 oh k let me check it 2011-04-28T14:15:11 *** boegel has quit IRC (Quit: *poof!*) 2011-04-28T14:21:21 *** boegel has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T14:24:13 *** orivej has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T14:43:05 *** boegel has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2011-04-28T14:47:32 *** MatmaRex has left #aichallenge 2011-04-28T15:12:57 hey subgraph your bot is not doing anything :-\ 2011-04-28T15:13:05 i am running it as java -jar 2011-04-28T15:15:29 *** delt0r has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T15:20:05 it's a metabot 2011-04-28T15:20:46 as in? 2011-04-28T15:20:52 a bunch of bots in one? 2011-04-28T15:20:58 no, dw :P 2011-04-28T15:27:13 *** delt0r___ has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T15:28:49 *** delt0r has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2011-04-28T15:30:29 dw=dimwit? 2011-04-28T15:30:45 or double word 2011-04-28T15:35:43 don't worry :) 2011-04-28T15:35:50 it was just a silly joke 2011-04-28T15:41:23 *** Blkt` has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T15:42:34 antimatroid: http://home.hypertriangle.com/~alex/website.png 2011-04-28T15:42:40 antimatroid: what do you think? 2011-04-28T15:43:13 amtan: i think i like it more than blue, but not sure how well it goes with the green 2011-04-28T15:43:25 i am probably one of the worst people you could ask about design though :) 2011-04-28T15:43:42 antimatroid: it's not like this channel is full of designers though 2011-04-28T15:43:53 Frontier: :P 2011-04-28T15:43:55 so you're not a bad choice compared to others 2011-04-28T15:43:58 Frontier: ping 2011-04-28T15:44:25 *** Blkt has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2011-04-28T15:45:56 contestbot: learn brown as background: -webkit-gradient(linear, left top, 0% 100%, from(#603814), to(#300400)); 2011-04-28T15:45:56 amstan: I come to serve. 2011-04-28T15:46:35 *** Accoun has quit IRC () 2011-04-28T15:48:31 antimatroid http://pastebin.com/ZM1G2xZb 2011-04-28T15:49:04 first bot is my new potential field based bot, which uses a combination of bfs search for hunting ants/food and potential fields for movement 2011-04-28T15:49:14 to new areas etc 2011-04-28T15:49:33 the other 3 are simple bfs searcher bots 2011-04-28T15:51:18 nice 2011-04-28T15:51:27 has anyone done anything in the way of smart battles yet? 2011-04-28T15:51:54 my bot does a stupid thing 2011-04-28T15:52:03 it just checks if making that move will prove disastrous 2011-04-28T15:52:11 and if so it moves to the closest friendly ant 2011-04-28T15:52:16 in a direction which is different 2011-04-28T15:52:20 from the original move 2011-04-28T15:52:26 if not it just stays there 2011-04-28T15:52:57 my main logic is something like this 2011-04-28T15:53:14 //picks out moves for each ant 2011-04-28T15:53:15 for(int ant=0; ant<(int)state.ants.size(); ant++) 2011-04-28T15:53:15 { 2011-04-28T15:53:15 if (!huntFood(ant)) 2011-04-28T15:53:15 if (!huntAnts(ant)) 2011-04-28T15:53:16 potentialBasedMove(state.ants[ant]); 2011-04-28T15:53:16 } 2011-04-28T15:53:32 find food if nearby food, otherwise go after enemy ant if nearby or just move based on potential 2011-04-28T15:53:55 no grand logic 2011-04-28T15:58:34 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T15:59:46 bhasker: what do you think? http://home.hypertriangle.com/~alex/website.png 2011-04-28T16:00:12 looks nice 2011-04-28T16:00:32 the map looks like a spin off from Supreme Commander 2011-04-28T16:00:34 Iris map 2011-04-28T16:00:44 a little different 2011-04-28T16:00:47 its missing a barrier in the middle 2011-04-28T16:02:12 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTQnarzmTOc 2011-04-28T16:02:12 wtf 2011-04-28T16:02:46 *** |UncleVasya| <|UncleVasya|!kvirc@31.144.181.54> has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T16:04:37 hayek, like high explosives 2011-04-28T16:06:05 *** berak has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2011-04-28T16:06:33 *** UncleVasya has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-04-28T16:09:25 *** MatmaRex has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T16:09:25 *** MatmaRex has left #aichallenge 2011-04-28T16:21:08 *** |UncleVasya| <|UncleVasya|!kvirc@31.144.181.54> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-04-28T16:21:09 the design is really good. i totally like it, but i'm not in favor of a brown backgound. 2011-04-28T16:21:57 something more pale maybe 2011-04-28T16:22:14 *** Chris_0076 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-04-28T16:22:37 *** Chris_0076 has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T16:22:46 amstan: btw. the site says "two computer programs" when there are 4 2011-04-28T16:24:17 aichallenge: Alexandru Stan epsilon * r64ff98a / website/index.php : fixed number of bots on the main page - http://bit.ly/ixgyNY 2011-04-28T16:25:15 what about the dark green? 2011-04-28T16:25:20 i'm not positive about that either 2011-04-28T16:25:27 i like the light green strip and the general design 2011-04-28T16:25:41 but i would never pick myself to design something 2011-04-28T16:28:50 antimatroid: have you seen those two's other works? http://www.billyandadam.com 2011-04-28T16:29:28 i haven't 2011-04-28T16:29:38 i did an economics degree though, so it tickled my interests :) 2011-04-28T16:29:55 they didnt write the song 2011-04-28T16:30:09 i know 2011-04-28T16:30:16 but the frist video is very funnyon their site :) 2011-04-28T16:41:31 *** Naktibalda has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T16:47:10 *** choas has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T16:50:25 *** amstan has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-04-28T16:58:14 *** Redgis has quit IRC (Quit: ... mains libres) 2011-04-28T16:59:58 *** Naktibalda has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 3.6.16/20110323143040]) 2011-04-28T17:17:30 *** jaycobcoleman` has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T17:23:32 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T17:25:07 *** Frontier has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-04-28T17:29:07 *** mcstar has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-04-28T17:31:46 *** Blkt`` has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T17:33:51 *** mceier has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2011-04-28T17:35:01 *** Blkt` has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2011-04-28T18:06:58 *** Cyndre has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-04-28T18:07:12 *** Cyndre has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T18:17:31 *** jaycobcoleman` has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-04-28T18:23:02 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T18:23:02 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2011-04-28T18:24:04 *** Kingpin13 has quit IRC (Quit: money can't buy you love, but it can if you have enough) 2011-04-28T18:28:34 contestbot: seen mcleopold 2011-04-28T18:28:34 amstan: mcleopold was last seen in #aichallenge 16 hours, 3 minutes, and 17 seconds ago: unless you're talking about the starter bot? 2011-04-28T18:29:13 aichallenge: Alexandru Stan epsilon * r9611942 / (3 files): 2011-04-28T18:29:13 aichallenge: Merged pull request #91 from smiley1983/epsilon. 2011-04-28T18:29:13 aichallenge: Ocaml starter pack update - http://bit.ly/lQ7OKm 2011-04-28T18:29:31 *** sigh has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-04-28T18:31:10 12 open issues · Due in 1 day 2011-04-28T18:31:18 well.. that's gonna happen.. 2011-04-28T18:32:23 *** Mathnerd314 has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T18:50:50 *** chris__0076 has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T18:51:37 *** Chris_0076 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2011-04-28T19:07:43 *** choas has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2011-04-28T19:11:19 *** FireFly has quit IRC (Quit: swatted to death) 2011-04-28T19:14:05 *** Blkt`` has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) 2011-04-28T19:14:49 *** Blkt`` has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T19:22:33 *** needsch has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2011-04-28T19:26:08 *** jaycobcoleman has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T19:27:14 bhasker: you should use the food function whenever you do something that isn't altering the food_list :P 2011-04-28T19:27:43 I'm referring to the closest_food function for greedybot 2011-04-28T19:29:32 I haven't really tested it, but as of now GreedyBot should be broken because food_list is now a dict 2011-04-28T19:32:36 But I changed closest_food to use the food_visible function, which returns the exact same input it was getting from food_list in the past, soooo it should work fine as soon as the UNSEEN_FOOD changes are pulled 2011-04-28T19:34:07 amstan: I forgot to tell you before, but I did make a dirt-ish background a few days ago if you'd like to experiment with it 2011-04-28T19:34:09 http://i.imgur.com/rAVZq.png 2011-04-28T19:34:20 It tiles perfectly 2011-04-28T19:34:38 I won't be too beat up if you don't want to use it though :P 2011-04-28T19:34:57 Took about 3 minutes 2011-04-28T19:35:23 jaycobcoleman: i would use it, but i want to keep that darkening gradient too, so i'll have to use multiple backgrounds for that 2011-04-28T19:36:05 You're saying you're going to layer it with a darkening gradient? 2011-04-28T19:36:12 es 2011-04-28T19:36:15 yes* 2011-04-28T19:36:27 alright, sweet :P 2011-04-28T19:37:01 tell me when you get it up :) 2011-04-28T20:01:48 *** Mathnerd314 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2011-04-28T20:17:30 *** Mathnerd314 has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T20:25:29 *** Cerealklr has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T20:25:36 *** Cerealklr has left #aichallenge 2011-04-28T21:12:34 *** Blkt`` has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-04-28T21:19:47 *** _flag <_flag!~flag@69-165-173-172.dsl.teksavvy.com> has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T21:41:50 *** amriedle has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T22:11:03 ah i haven't been really maintaining greedybot, i wrote it but then switched to c++ 2011-04-28T22:11:17 i decided i really wanted the speed and control that c++ offers this time around 2011-04-28T22:11:55 python gave me a lot of trouble last time around 2011-04-28T22:16:47 bhasker: Alright, well I can deal with any other changes that come about that cause problems, but honestly I don't think there'll be anything else. It was really just because you use food_list as opposed to the function that returned food 2011-04-28T22:17:02 ah k 2011-04-28T22:17:21 its a rather stupid bot though overall, just wanted to demonstrate some logging ability and a little more complex bot 2011-04-28T22:17:23 than hunter 2011-04-28T22:17:41 i reused my logging framework code from previous contest 2011-04-28T22:18:46 I'm actually very glad you made it. It'll be a very good example for helping people understand the structure of a slightly more complex bot 2011-04-28T22:26:02 *** McLeopold has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T22:40:35 amstan: I just realized you undid my submission dir stuff :( 2011-04-28T22:41:16 McLeopold: huh? when? 2011-04-28T22:42:56 *** antimatroid has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2011-04-28T22:45:08 *** McLeopold has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2011-04-28T22:46:57 *** McLeopold has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T22:54:28 *** antimatroid has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T23:02:06 Do we have an idea as to the number of games we're gonna run per bot? 2011-04-28T23:03:11 jaycobcoleman: depends on the number of servers we have 2011-04-28T23:06:24 *** McLeopold has left #aichallenge 2011-04-28T23:10:32 It'd be nice if we could run at least 10. Obviously servers could put a strain on that :/ but I think that'll be about what's necessary to get an accurate ranking 2011-04-28T23:10:54 especially if we want people to learn and make changes as they go 2011-04-28T23:10:59 jaycobcoleman: have you participated in pw? 2011-04-28T23:11:11 no I have not 2011-04-28T23:11:21 It uses ELO doesn't it? 2011-04-28T23:11:29 yes, but same concept applies 2011-04-28T23:11:45 games run as long as there's servers 2011-04-28T23:11:51 i don't think they stop playing 2011-04-28T23:12:02 so.. games per bot always increases 2011-04-28T23:12:08 the problem is how fast 2011-04-28T23:12:12 Oh, perfect :P 2011-04-28T23:12:57 So do we have anything so far as far as trueskill goes? 2011-04-28T23:13:45 i have no idea 2011-04-28T23:13:47 ask mcleopold 2011-04-28T23:13:52 yes 2011-04-28T23:14:04 dmj111 did some stuff on it 2011-04-28T23:14:21 antimatroid: also.. do you mean why mcleopold meant with that submission dir? 2011-04-28T23:14:33 s/mean/know/g 2011-04-28T23:14:39 s/why/what/g 2011-04-28T23:14:50 which submission directory? 2011-04-28T23:15:02 antimatroid: [22:40] amstan: I just realized you undid my submission dir stuff :( 2011-04-28T23:15:19 no idea 2011-04-28T23:15:28 *** amriedle has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal) 2011-04-28T23:15:32 *** _flag <_flag!~flag@69-165-173-172.dsl.teksavvy.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal) 2011-04-28T23:18:17 *** amstan_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T23:18:17 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan_ 2011-04-28T23:20:26 and Trueskill doesn't care about scores right? only ranking 2011-04-28T23:20:55 trueskill cares about scores more than elo 2011-04-28T23:21:15 *** amstan has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-04-28T23:27:31 *** delt0r___ has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) 2011-04-28T23:28:01 *** delt0r has joined #aichallenge 2011-04-28T23:29:14 alright, I'll read up on trueskill a bit later