2011-05-05T00:01:09 *** Meatkat has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T00:01:23 *** computerwiz_222 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2011-05-05T00:14:18 *** Meatkat has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-05-05T00:15:48 *** Meatkat has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T00:22:58 *** Meatkat has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-05-05T00:25:13 *** Meatkat has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T00:28:43 *** Blargs has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-05-05T00:29:50 *** Meatkat has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-05-05T00:30:31 *** Meatkat has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T00:35:50 *** Meatkat has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2011-05-05T00:36:28 *** Meatkat has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T00:42:13 *** Meatkat has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2011-05-05T00:42:55 *** Meatkat has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T00:54:18 *** Meatkat has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2011-05-05T00:55:04 *** Meatkat has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T00:58:41 *** okayzed has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T01:01:01 hi guys, was just looking at the ants problem - it looks pretty interesting 2011-05-05T01:03:56 reading the wiki now, it's pretty cool to see how the idea is developing 2011-05-05T01:14:01 *** McLeopold has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T01:15:40 *** Meatkat has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-05-05T01:17:30 *** Meatkat has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T01:22:54 *** mcstar has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T01:25:52 *** JaycobColeman has quit IRC (Quit: JaycobColeman) 2011-05-05T01:25:54 *** mcstar has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-05-05T01:26:05 *** mcstar has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T01:26:24 *** JaycobColeman has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T01:26:51 *** mcstar has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-05-05T01:27:01 *** mcstar has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T01:28:48 *** JaycobColeman has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-05-05T01:36:20 *** Meatkat has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-05-05T01:40:12 *** Meatkat has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T01:49:55 Meatkat: fix your internet 2011-05-05T01:55:15 *** amstan_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T01:55:15 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan_ 2011-05-05T01:55:43 *** JaycobColeman has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T01:55:52 amstan: meh :P 2011-05-05T01:57:38 ANIMATROID!!!! 2011-05-05T01:58:11 yes? 2011-05-05T01:58:22 nothin' 2011-05-05T01:58:26 antimatroid: 2011-05-05T01:58:37 mcstra: 2011-05-05T01:58:39 bah :p 2011-05-05T01:58:43 nothin 2011-05-05T01:59:03 just saying good morning 2011-05-05T01:59:08 good afternoon :P 2011-05-05T01:59:16 good afternoon indeed 2011-05-05T01:59:35 i woke up at 7 , god knows why 2011-05-05T01:59:48 I woke up at 6:30 :P 2011-05-05T01:59:51 AP test 2011-05-05T01:59:59 i had class at 9 :( 2011-05-05T02:00:06 Calculus done! 2011-05-05T02:00:40 for high school anyway 2011-05-05T02:00:44 whats next? probability theory? 2011-05-05T02:01:07 who? 2011-05-05T02:01:10 ah high school 2011-05-05T02:01:15 oh 2011-05-05T02:01:24 i need to learn probability properly some time 2011-05-05T02:01:31 but i still don't understand measure theory very well 2011-05-05T02:01:49 theres nothing to understand lol 2011-05-05T02:02:03 I don't really know where there is to go after this. I know there are many places, I just don't know what they are 2011-05-05T02:02:09 sigma algebras hurt my brain 2011-05-05T02:02:22 JaycobColeman: i expect you to major in cs and maths 2011-05-05T02:02:29 expect/require 2011-05-05T02:02:34 feel free to add a third major 2011-05-05T02:02:35 *** amstan has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-05-05T02:02:43 haha well I think that's what I'm going to do anyway 2011-05-05T02:02:48 so it all works out 2011-05-05T02:02:51 go for physics 2011-05-05T02:02:53 :) 2011-05-05T02:03:09 lol 2011-05-05T02:03:09 I have bad experiences with physics.. 2011-05-05T02:03:24 physics and i aren't very good friends 2011-05-05T02:03:25 non-calculus physics... 2011-05-05T02:03:25 last night i tried to explain quantum computing to my mom 2011-05-05T02:03:34 i dont think she understands 2011-05-05T02:03:54 probably not 2011-05-05T02:04:06 nothing against your mother :P 2011-05-05T02:04:09 probably because i dont either :D 2011-05-05T02:04:16 i made a correction on wikipedia yesterday :P 2011-05-05T02:04:29 what topic? 2011-05-05T02:04:39 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symmetric_game 2011-05-05T02:04:48 the function in the general case was wrong 2011-05-05T02:04:55 you and your symmetries ..... 2011-05-05T02:04:57 :D 2011-05-05T02:05:12 it had u_i(...) = u_pi(i )(a_pi(1 ),...) 2011-05-05T02:05:18 but it needed pi^-1 in the brackets 2011-05-05T02:05:29 otherwise it's wrong for n>2 players 2011-05-05T02:05:59 i'm actually not sure if people just always define it wrong or that was an error 2011-05-05T02:06:10 i can't find anywhere else that defines symmetry and even that page doesn't do it properly 2011-05-05T02:06:13 peasants 2011-05-05T02:06:43 muggles 2011-05-05T02:06:50 yes! 2011-05-05T02:06:53 best insult 2011-05-05T02:06:55 by this definition the coin tossing example is symmetric 2011-05-05T02:07:01 no it's not 2011-05-05T02:07:19 Is sigh around? 2011-05-05T02:07:24 even once you throw in permutations of strategies you can't make matching pennies symmetric 2011-05-05T02:07:30 the game simply is not symmetric 2011-05-05T02:07:37 which begs the question, what makes a game fair? 2011-05-05T02:07:45 as that game obviously is 2011-05-05T02:08:31 alright 2011-05-05T02:08:43 i will look into this to satisfy my curiosity 2011-05-05T02:09:01 then when im educated i will come back to you with the result :) 2011-05-05T02:09:18 Is there a non-math explanation of a symmetric game? 2011-05-05T02:09:20 i am going to type up my example in latex in a bit 2011-05-05T02:09:22 i will link you 2011-05-05T02:09:29 ok 2011-05-05T02:09:45 McLeopold: http://www.gametheory.net/dictionary/games/SymmetricGame.html 2011-05-05T02:09:54 that does a very non-general definition for 2 player games 2011-05-05T02:10:14 basically, if you have A and B as the players payoff matrices, A = transpose(B) then you can say the game is symmetric 2011-05-05T02:10:30 but if that isn't the case, it's not sufficient information to say the game is not symmetric 2011-05-05T02:11:01 McLeopold: You should also look through my pull request. Getting rid of r lines, updating python sample bots...basically. 2011-05-05T02:11:02 * antimatroid starts typing up the example 2011-05-05T02:11:11 And by you should I mean I'd like you to 2011-05-05T02:11:30 JaycobColeman: I'm getting there, but could it be easier to just roll back to before I asked you to do stuff? 2011-05-05T02:11:47 sure 2011-05-05T02:12:08 Except that the sample business is still way behind 2011-05-05T02:12:32 Well, I don't think I want bhasker's additions in the starter pack 2011-05-05T02:12:33 It'd be nice for the function usage to be consistent 2011-05-05T02:13:00 what do you mean? what additions? 2011-05-05T02:13:04 hmm, for row/col tuples everywhere? yes, we should get that fixed 2011-05-05T02:13:10 closest_food/ant 2011-05-05T02:13:14 I changed it in all the bots 2011-05-05T02:13:24 oh yes, well that's only in the sample bots 2011-05-05T02:13:32 It really should be in the bot itself 2011-05-05T02:13:38 which is easy enough to take care of 2011-05-05T02:14:03 it makes sense to put it in the ants class, but it is giving too much away to the programmers 2011-05-05T02:14:12 the starter packs shouldn't be too smart 2011-05-05T02:14:43 the python guys will just copy/paste anyway, but all the starter packs need to be consistant 2011-05-05T02:14:55 I agree. If you want to revert all that stuff back to before 'r' lines then I can make all the additions to get it back up to date 2011-05-05T02:15:15 okay, that would be helpfull 2011-05-05T02:15:19 and move those functions into GreedyBot if that's where you'd like them 2011-05-05T02:15:32 Or do you not want them at all? 2011-05-05T02:15:33 no, they are fine where they are, sample bots only 2011-05-05T02:15:57 oh okay, yeah I don't believe I added them to starters? That'd be weird of me 2011-05-05T02:17:01 If you revert it I can take care of that...tommorow? probably. I have an AP lit. test to deal with 2011-05-05T02:17:33 sure, none of this is high priority until after beta 2011-05-05T02:17:42 mkay 2011-05-05T02:18:21 I probably won't be too much use for beta-ey issues, so I can dink around with these things in my free time 2011-05-05T02:18:25 antimatroid: how is coin-tossing not symmetric? 2011-05-05T02:18:57 McLeopold: atm i am defining symmetry as a game which remains unchanged from any permutation of the players 2011-05-05T02:19:04 possibly with a re-arrangement of the players strategies 2011-05-05T02:19:15 you cannot do that with matching pennies 2011-05-05T02:19:20 the game is fair, but not symmetric 2011-05-05T02:19:36 there is also a proof to say that every symmetric 2x2 game has a pure strategy nash equilibria 2011-05-05T02:19:41 matching pennies does not have one 2011-05-05T02:21:50 *** Meatkat has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-05-05T02:22:24 so, the payoffs are reversed if you switch sides, so it is not symmetric? 2011-05-05T02:22:31 *** Meatkat has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T02:23:06 I'll be honest, all I see when I look at this is a swastika :( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Reaction-correspondence-matching-pennies.jpg 2011-05-05T02:23:48 That's unfortunate 2011-05-05T02:25:49 McLeopold: yep 2011-05-05T02:25:58 the players have opposite objectives 2011-05-05T02:26:11 JaycobColeman: i think the same :P 2011-05-05T02:26:22 no reason to be sad about that 2011-05-05T02:27:23 it's the link between the symbol and wwii that's sad 2011-05-05T02:28:22 yeah, its a highly praised symbol 2011-05-05T02:28:39 fing nazis used to some other end 2011-05-05T02:29:13 don't start hate talk, this is an international channel 2011-05-05T02:29:18 *** Meatkat has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-05-05T02:29:32 ur right meatkat already quit 2011-05-05T02:29:34 :) 2011-05-05T02:29:58 *** Meatkat has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T02:30:41 Meatkat you're makin my computer go all clickly-like 2011-05-05T02:31:07 i need eat 2011-05-05T02:31:12 i need meat 2011-05-05T02:31:17 i eat Meatkat 2011-05-05T02:31:26 or a kitkat 2011-05-05T02:31:59 McLeopold: I wasn't starting hate talk :P 2011-05-05T02:32:15 he meant me 2011-05-05T02:32:23 ah :P 2011-05-05T02:32:47 not that i think its hate talk, i dont think highly intelligent people will get offended 2011-05-05T02:32:53 yep 2011-05-05T02:33:09 i am a big fan of politically incorrect "shock" jokes 2011-05-05T02:33:21 haha that's the good stuff 2011-05-05T02:33:21 but wont tolerate actual racism etc. 2011-05-05T02:33:34 much the same 2011-05-05T02:33:34 That means you daniel tosh 2011-05-05T02:33:36 for mew 2011-05-05T02:33:44 *glaring face 2011-05-05T02:34:04 I don't have one of those. How might one type a glaring face? 2011-05-05T02:34:10 without weird symbols 2011-05-05T02:37:25 im in console 2011-05-05T02:37:36 i wont see actual glaring faces :D 2011-05-05T02:37:51 I don't mean emoticons, just text 2011-05-05T02:37:55 oh 2011-05-05T02:37:59 ¬_¬ 2011-05-05T02:38:02 There's that 2011-05-05T02:38:04 close 2011-05-05T02:38:12 not happy enough 2011-05-05T02:38:27 It's supposed to be glaring 2011-05-05T02:38:29 kind of doped 2011-05-05T02:38:36 "hey man im high" 2011-05-05T02:38:36 yeah, pretty doped 2011-05-05T02:38:45 ¬_¬ 2011-05-05T02:38:48 :) 2011-05-05T02:39:07 _ 2011-05-05T02:39:23 thanks apple...for...including that... 2011-05-05T02:40:04 (\_/) 2011-05-05T02:40:05 (O.o) 2011-05-05T02:40:08 (> <) 2011-05-05T02:40:19 the world dominating bunny 2011-05-05T02:40:28 well, glad we've deteriorated to this 2011-05-05T02:40:43 :P 2011-05-05T02:52:41 *** McLeopold has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2011-05-05T02:53:16 *** McLeopold has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T03:04:50 antimatroid: i think the matching pennies are NOT symmetric either ordinally or cardinally 2011-05-05T03:04:58 *** amriedle has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal) 2011-05-05T03:05:08 mcstar: the game simply isn't symmetric :P 2011-05-05T03:05:18 yes 2011-05-05T03:05:22 but it's obviously fair 2011-05-05T03:05:27 so what defines fairness? 2011-05-05T03:05:46 the expected payoff? 2011-05-05T03:05:56 i don't think it's that easy 2011-05-05T03:06:10 they will follow 50/50 strategy 2011-05-05T03:06:19 and the expectations will be the same 2011-05-05T03:06:23 but i will read more 2011-05-05T03:06:42 yeah, i'm pretty sure you could come up with an unfair game that had equal expected utilities with equi-prortional mixed strategies 2011-05-05T03:07:11 i'm almost done typing up the example 2011-05-05T03:07:15 it's a bit messy :P 2011-05-05T03:07:25 2 player is fairly trivial, so i've done a 2x2x2 game 2011-05-05T03:08:59 animatroid: http://thinkprogress.org/2011/05/04/house-gop-hr3/ I love the u.s. and all, but sometimes...sometimes you just want to move to australia 2011-05-05T03:09:47 id like a kangaroo for breakfast, pls 2011-05-05T03:10:21 oh man, arent you too young for this shat? 2011-05-05T03:13:56 Whaaa? 2011-05-05T03:16:45 dealing with legislation, bills? 2011-05-05T03:16:54 worry about it when u get older 2011-05-05T03:17:03 i mean really old 2011-05-05T03:17:46 *** Kingpin13 has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T03:18:00 obviously i just hate politics 2011-05-05T03:18:09 you dont have to agree with me :) 2011-05-05T03:19:12 You're never to young to be irritated with the GOP 2011-05-05T03:19:20 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon-io * r8835947 / (6 files in 4 dirs): worker improvements, api_get_task still doesn't generate matchup correctly - http://bit.ly/mpnxO1 2011-05-05T03:21:41 *** Meatkat has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-05-05T03:22:19 MeatKat!!!! *shakes fist* 2011-05-05T03:22:54 The thing is, he doesn't respond when we say things to him, so he's probably in about 20 other channels that are all getting the same messages :/ 2011-05-05T03:25:59 *** McLeopold has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-05-05T03:28:54 *** aerique has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T03:29:54 *** ltriant has quit IRC (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep) 2011-05-05T03:32:27 JaycobColeman: why dont u configure properly ur irc client? 2011-05-05T03:32:46 Just got it :P 2011-05-05T03:32:51 I'll get around to it 2011-05-05T03:33:00 For now I'm just gonna complain a lot 2011-05-05T03:33:04 ok 2011-05-05T03:33:10 you knwo what i mean? 2011-05-05T03:33:15 highligh/private msg 2011-05-05T03:33:17 t 2011-05-05T03:33:48 mcstar: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B5joEFt1EpwZZTA2ZjNhYmEtMzJkMy00NDkyLTlhY2EtMjFhZjRmZTJkM2Jk&hl=en 2011-05-05T03:33:50 the last two slides 2011-05-05T03:33:53 sorry if there's a typo :P 2011-05-05T03:34:07 the rest is a mess 2011-05-05T03:34:15 i have to give a mid year talk in a couple of weeks :P 2011-05-05T03:34:58 i have no idea what to call my "partitions of players strategy sets in the pure strategy space", feel free to tell me what that actually is :P 2011-05-05T03:35:27 *** dr-` is now known as dr- 2011-05-05T03:35:45 ill read in a moment 2011-05-05T03:35:57 but sometime soon i have to eat 2011-05-05T03:36:01 bc im starving 2011-05-05T03:36:51 well 2011-05-05T03:37:02 according to skynet, i dont have the permission to view it 2011-05-05T03:37:36 wait 2011-05-05T03:37:44 you should :\ 2011-05-05T03:37:47 maybe i pasted the address incorrectly 2011-05-05T03:38:16 alright 2011-05-05T03:38:18 its there 2011-05-05T03:38:34 who is this nick ham anyways? 2011-05-05T03:38:40 dont forget to change it to your name 2011-05-05T03:38:45 before you send it in 2011-05-05T03:39:24 * mcstar hopes antimatroid laughs his ass off 2011-05-05T03:39:30 :P 2011-05-05T03:49:04 * JaycobColeman likes speaking in the third person 2011-05-05T03:50:00 i don't even know what is second and third 2011-05-05T03:51:19 although i've read one uses "we" for mathematics because unlike most scientific experiments, the reader has everything available to them that you do 2011-05-05T03:51:26 so it's something you do with the reader in a way 2011-05-05T03:52:19 second is where you say "You did this, you do that" 2011-05-05T03:52:22 whatever 2011-05-05T03:52:35 third is referring to someone outside the conversation 2011-05-05T03:52:56 my understanding anyway :P 2011-05-05T03:53:05 I'm no English major 2011-05-05T03:55:04 antimatroid: i read the wiki page that you corrected and i think you made a mistake 2011-05-05T03:55:14 with formatting -1? 2011-05-05T03:55:19 yeah i know :P 2011-05-05T03:55:24 animatroid doesn't make mistakes 2011-05-05T03:55:31 You must be mistaken 2011-05-05T03:55:32 you dont have to take the inverse of the permutation 2011-05-05T03:55:36 yes you do 2011-05-05T03:55:39 no 2011-05-05T03:55:41 yes 2011-05-05T03:55:46 it was correct the first time 2011-05-05T03:55:49 no it wasn't 2011-05-05T03:55:53 yes :) 2011-05-05T03:55:55 i can break it doing it that way 2011-05-05T03:56:05 listen 2011-05-05T03:56:16 hold on, i'll add a broken example to the document 2011-05-05T03:56:41 the formula that is written down, tries to linearly write down the transponation for tensors 2011-05-05T03:56:51 stay with me antimatroid 2011-05-05T03:57:09 you here? 2011-05-05T03:57:15 yeah 2011-05-05T03:57:21 ok 2011-05-05T03:57:33 so when you are beyonf 2-rank tensors 2011-05-05T03:57:53 you can trnaspose tensors many different ways 2011-05-05T03:58:00 thats what the permutation is for 2011-05-05T03:58:36 the theory says, that the game is symmetric, if for any and all such tranpositions the formula gives the same result 2011-05-05T03:58:48 which is doesn't 2011-05-05T03:59:02 if you do the example using pi, it breaks 2011-05-05T03:59:07 to see that you dont have to take the inverse of the permutation u just have to consider the diagonal 2011-05-05T03:59:25 which is unchaged, and this only can be achived if you permute correctly 2011-05-05T03:59:42 Pi(a)!=Pi(a)^-1 2011-05-05T03:59:46 for a permutation 2011-05-05T03:59:56 only for a 2 element set 2011-05-05T04:00:09 you get 4 = u_1(a2,b1,c1) = u_2(t21(b1),t32(c1),t13(a2)) = u_2(a2,b2,c2) = 5 2011-05-05T04:00:38 what are these numbers? 2011-05-05T04:00:47 have you looked on my last slide? 2011-05-05T04:00:52 no 2011-05-05T04:00:58 the bottom calculation does an example calculation like tht 2011-05-05T04:01:00 ill eat first 2011-05-05T04:01:02 this is doing it your way 2011-05-05T04:01:39 i am pretty damn sure i'm right :P 2011-05-05T04:01:52 considering i can come up with examples breaking it the old way and not the way i deduced 2011-05-05T04:02:45 bear in mind the permutation of players is (1,2,3) 2011-05-05T04:03:11 the only knowledge i have of tensors i've deduced myself though :P 2011-05-05T04:03:25 ill get back to in an hour 2011-05-05T04:03:55 :P 2011-05-05T04:03:56 *** berak has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T04:04:27 I don't understand this! :D But it's cool, I got time 2011-05-05T04:04:29 college 2011-05-05T04:04:48 it'll be a crazy math party 2011-05-05T04:05:36 I think there'll be some serious game theory involved 2011-05-05T04:06:22 :( I've hardly been able to do any coding recently. Way too many school things :( 2011-05-05T04:06:50 And in fact I must be going to sleep so I can wake up at 6:30 again to take another AP test! 2011-05-05T04:06:58 So goodnight all 2011-05-05T04:07:46 night :P 2011-05-05T04:09:12 by the way, really quick 2011-05-05T04:09:24 reddit is going to be down in a couple hours 2011-05-05T04:09:27 evidently 2011-05-05T04:10:13 fuckers 2011-05-05T04:11:00 scheduled maintanance 2011-05-05T04:11:03 :P 2011-05-05T04:11:12 also r/shutupandtakemymoney 2011-05-05T04:11:27 *** Naktibalda has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T04:11:50 9793 readers 2011-05-05T04:11:54 8 days old 2011-05-05T04:12:00 and wonderful 2011-05-05T04:12:55 *** sigh has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-05-05T04:18:46 *** mceier has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T04:22:05 anyways. Actually gotta go this time 2011-05-05T04:22:09 goodbye 2011-05-05T04:22:12 *** JaycobColeman has quit IRC (Quit: JaycobColeman) 2011-05-05T04:31:27 *** woudshoo has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T04:34:33 *** GeorgeSebastian has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T04:46:24 mcstar: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B5joEFt1EpwZM2VmODBmN2QtMTkxMi00MjZhLWIyYWQtMjczOTNjMGM3ODgx&hl=en 2011-05-05T04:46:29 see the last slide on that page after 2011-05-05T04:46:33 i'm going to hockey training soon :P 2011-05-05T04:52:17 *** GeorgeSebastian has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2011-05-05T04:53:48 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T05:29:54 *** delt0r___ has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T05:31:34 *** delt0r_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-05-05T05:47:51 *** stocha has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T05:48:22 If the penny toss game is what i think it is. Then i don't understand what kind of definition you would use symmetric for :p 2011-05-05T05:52:12 Symmetric payoff it appears. Well. I still don't get it. What i really don't get is how is this related to ant. 2011-05-05T05:53:16 *** stocha has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-05-05T06:05:59 *** davidd has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-05-05T06:07:43 *** davidd has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T06:25:24 *** Accoun has quit IRC () 2011-05-05T06:30:46 mcstar: where's the love? :p 2011-05-05T06:40:36 *** kaemo has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T06:44:19 *** needsch has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T06:46:19 *** FireFly has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T07:05:45 mcstar: what would be nicer is if i swapped the pi and pi^-1 uses 2011-05-05T07:05:54 as i only use the normal pi once 2011-05-05T07:27:00 *** Crivens has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T07:30:16 antimatroid: hey 2011-05-05T07:30:19 sorry 2011-05-05T07:31:15 first of all i think your second utility matrix is wrong, i cant get it from the first one 2011-05-05T07:31:19 by permutations 2011-05-05T07:31:25 the third is ok though 2011-05-05T07:32:01 what? 2011-05-05T07:32:25 the second to last slide 2011-05-05T07:32:48 if you rotate the players in the 3 player game, you need to consider a1 == b2 == c1 and a2 == b1 == c2 2011-05-05T07:32:53 you represent 3 utility matrices in two tables 2011-05-05T07:32:59 yeah 2011-05-05T07:33:11 so, if i take the first matrix 2011-05-05T07:33:19 ant get all of its transpositions 2011-05-05T07:33:27 then the C matrix is among them 2011-05-05T07:33:30 but the B isnt 2011-05-05T07:33:35 the first matrix is when player 3 plays c1 2011-05-05T07:33:42 the second matrix is when player 3 plays c2 2011-05-05T07:33:45 it's a 2x2x2 cube 2011-05-05T07:33:49 yes 2011-05-05T07:34:09 do you by any chance have mathematica? 2011-05-05T07:34:14 no 2011-05-05T07:34:34 let me see what python offers then 2011-05-05T07:35:16 relabel the game with player 2 on the rows with b2 first and b1 second, then player 1 along the columns with a2 first and a1 second 2011-05-05T07:35:33 then write out the new game, re-arranging to put player 2's payoff first 2011-05-05T07:35:37 then look at the game you get 2011-05-05T07:35:39 it's the same 2011-05-05T07:36:36 *** Eruonen has joined #aichallenge 2011-05-05T07:37:36 mcstar: can you do that for me? :P 2011-05-05T07:37:47 i just did it. it works 2011-05-05T07:38:40 let me send you a picture via dcc 2011-05-05T07:38:48 imgur :P 2011-05-05T07:39:16 can you do what i said above though? 2011-05-05T07:39:27 a moment 2011-05-05T07:39:35 you should be able to convince yourself after doing the firstt matrix 2011-05-05T07:39:38 meanwhile get that pic 2011-05-05T07:40:25 what i sent you is all the permutations of the matrix A 2011-05-05T07:40:41