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2011-05-06T03:00:48  <antimatroid> ... i have found one correct definition of symmetric games other than mine
2011-05-06T03:01:03  <antimatroid> it's slightly different, and no surprises that von neumann made no mistake
2011-05-06T03:01:15  <antimatroid> but they're equivalent
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2011-05-06T08:47:12  <antimatroid> dead channel is dead
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2011-05-06T09:26:16  <delt0r__> antimatroid: you mean this channel?
2011-05-06T09:38:05  <antimatroid> yes :p
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2011-05-06T10:00:48  <delt0r__> antimatroid: well i see plenty of activity here
2011-05-06T10:02:20  <antimatroid> :p
2011-05-06T10:02:22  <antimatroid> don't taunt me :(
2011-05-06T10:04:55  <delt0r__> yea are you getting your real work done? ;)
2011-05-06T10:05:05  <antimatroid> i am doing thesis stuff
2011-05-06T10:05:09  <antimatroid> so sort of
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2011-05-06T11:27:48  <antimatroid> mcstar: hellooo :P
2011-05-06T11:27:59  <antimatroid> i am wrestling with a new problem :P
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2011-05-06T12:01:39  <mcstar> antimatroid: hey
2011-05-06T12:05:45  <CIA-33> aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * r6e8eb1d / reset_server.cmd : . (+12 more commits...) - http://bit.ly/iiSEzG
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2011-05-06T12:22:45  <antimatroid> mcstar: hey
2011-05-06T12:22:49  <antimatroid> i just found something quite straing
2011-05-06T12:22:52  <antimatroid> strange* :P
2011-05-06T12:24:56  <mcstar> well, for me the whole wrestling business is strange
2011-05-06T12:25:10  <mcstar> i think its a bad joke
2011-05-06T12:25:19  <mcstar> i dont like it
2011-05-06T12:25:34  <antimatroid> what do you mean?
2011-05-06T12:25:53  <antimatroid> you don't like the analogy "wrestling a problem"?
2011-05-06T12:25:59  <mcstar> when two big guy try to mate on tv
2011-05-06T12:26:13  <mcstar> im just saying i dont like wrestling
2011-05-06T12:26:20  <antimatroid> i don't like wrestling either
2011-05-06T12:26:22  <mcstar> professional wrestling
2011-05-06T12:26:28  <antimatroid> but i like saying wrestling with a problem :P
2011-05-06T12:26:42  <mcstar> and, it was a joke to ur figure of speach
2011-05-06T12:26:51  <antimatroid> if you take a 2x2 game, you would expect the following to result in the same game yes...
2011-05-06T12:27:20  <antimatroid> swap the players then swap new player 2's strategies
2011-05-06T12:27:20  <antimatroid> swap player 1's strategies then swap the players
2011-05-06T12:28:14  <mcstar> well in a formula:
2011-05-06T12:28:16  <antimatroid> not the original game, but both things would intuitively lead to the same thing, but on paper it's not :\
2011-05-06T12:28:29  <mcstar> A|B=B^t|A^t
2011-05-06T12:28:35  <mcstar> if this holds its symmetric
2011-05-06T12:28:54  <mcstar> of course you dont know what | means
2011-05-06T12:28:55  <antimatroid> i'm not worrying about symmetry atm
2011-05-06T12:28:59  <mcstar> bc i just introduced it
2011-05-06T12:30:05  <mcstar> well
2011-05-06T12:30:11  <mcstar> swap the 2 players
2011-05-06T12:30:27  <mcstar> then transpose its utility matrices
2011-05-06T12:30:32  <mcstar> then swap their strategies
2011-05-06T12:30:51  <mcstar> and this results in the same payoff matrix
2011-05-06T12:30:59  <mcstar> if and only if the game was symmetric
2011-05-06T12:31:04  <mcstar> this i know
2011-05-06T12:31:10  <mcstar> bc i tried
2011-05-06T12:31:31  <mcstar> its->their
2011-05-06T12:32:47  <mcstar> well, transposing and swapping arent teh same
2011-05-06T12:34:51  <antimatroid> oh wait, i fucked up :P
2011-05-06T12:35:22  <mcstar> how so?
2011-05-06T12:35:31  <antimatroid> i didn't swap the players properly
2011-05-06T12:35:46  <antimatroid> it i start with :
2011-05-06T12:35:46  <antimatroid> 1,8 2,6
2011-05-06T12:35:46  <antimatroid> 3,7 4,5
2011-05-06T12:36:04  <antimatroid> swapping players then a1 and a2 is the same as swapping a1 and a2 then swapping the players
2011-05-06T12:36:42  <mcstar> yes
2011-05-06T12:36:57  <antimatroid> i was going wtf as to why i was getting a different result :P
2011-05-06T12:36:57  <mcstar> these are not interdependent
2011-05-06T12:37:34  <antimatroid> atm i'm working on a definition to say two games are equivalent
2011-05-06T12:37:55  <antimatroid> with my whole "unravelling' of the tensor thing
2011-05-06T12:42:55  <mcstar> so after your aforementioned method, you expect to get back the same payoff matrix?
2011-05-06T12:43:16  <antimatroid> no
2011-05-06T12:43:23  <antimatroid> i expected the two methods to give the same result
2011-05-06T12:43:36  <antimatroid> but the resulting game is equivalent to the starting game
2011-05-06T12:43:47  <mcstar> before that
2011-05-06T12:43:54  <antimatroid> ?
2011-05-06T12:44:02  <mcstar> 18:25:54 antimatroid | if you take a 2x2 game, you would expect the following to result in the same game yes...                                │ delt0r_
2011-05-06T12:44:04  <mcstar> 18:26:23 antimatroid | swap the players then swap new player 2's strategies                                                                    │ delt0r__
2011-05-06T12:44:06  <mcstar> 18:26:23 antimatroid | swap player 1's strategies then swap the players                                                                        │ dr-
2011-05-06T12:44:16  <antimatroid> that's the two methods thing
2011-05-06T12:44:58  <mcstar> i thought u applied all these transformations and then get back where you left off
2011-05-06T12:45:22  <antimatroid> i said not the original game after :P
2011-05-06T12:45:28  <antimatroid> i noticed the error, sorry for confusing you
2011-05-06T12:45:47  <mcstar> ok
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2011-05-06T15:16:14  <CIA-33> aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * rdbb185b / (11 files in 5 dirs): added visualize_locally to playgame, website front page now displays the contest's last played game - http://bit.ly/lgfZH5
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2011-05-06T16:12:16  <janzert> I'm *really* unhappy to see so many gratuitous changes especially when we should be on the verge of pushing out beta and they include regressions to at least stderr handling in the sandbox, but I'm going to try and get compilation sandboxing integrated this weekend and that will probably be the last of what I do so feel free to do what you want I suppose
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2011-05-06T16:39:52  <amstan> janzert: i'm with you
2011-05-06T16:40:02  <amstan> we should be concentrating on getting beta out, and only that
2011-05-06T16:40:11  <amstan> McLeopold: ^^
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2011-05-06T18:26:50  * McLeopold1 ?
2011-05-06T18:28:22  <McLeopold1> amstan: I need help
2011-05-06T18:28:28  <amstan> McLeopold1: ok?
2011-05-06T18:29:04  <McLeopold1> I don't have time to do some of the php ranking pages.
2011-05-06T18:29:16  <McLeopold1> It's easy, I just haven't got there yet.
2011-05-06T18:29:27  <amstan> McLeopold1: i need some filled tables then
2011-05-06T18:30:41  <McLeopold1> amstan: sql/create_test_data will get you data
2011-05-06T18:30:51  <amstan> ok
2011-05-06T18:31:11  <McLeopold1> I think all the mu/sigma will still be at default values, but at least you'll have entries.
2011-05-06T18:31:19  <amstan> McLeopold1: i'll look into it tonight
2011-05-06T18:31:22  <McLeopold1> cool
2011-05-06T18:31:29  <McLeopold1> I'm working on manager.py...
2011-05-06T18:31:59  <McLeopold1> which should update the trueskill values after a game, and snapshot the rankings to create the leaderboard records
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2011-05-06T18:32:43  <McLeopold1> I think the mysql issue had to do with transactions in the api_game_result, so I've removed them
2011-05-06T18:32:58  <McLeopold1> after beta, we'll need to address it
2011-05-06T18:34:35  <McLeopold1> amstan/janzert: I'm not trying to do gratuitous changes, I'm just trying to do enough that I know stuff is working.  The front page stuff was a quick fix since I don't have ranking pages yet.
2011-05-06T18:36:13  <McLeopold1> janzert: also, stderr changes were made so I could get feed back to the workers.  It did feel like I was going backwards.
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2011-05-06T18:41:45  <McLeopold1> janzert: Actually, after looking at the code, I'm not sure where you think I regressed it.
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2011-05-06T18:44:54  <amstan_> McLeopold1: it's not about the regressions, it's about adding things, and changing stuff
2011-05-06T18:45:09  * amstan_ is restarting
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2011-05-06T18:45:17  <_flag> hey
2011-05-06T18:45:28  <McLeopold1> hi _flag
2011-05-06T18:45:39  <_flag> What's the status on a beta/tcp_server/contest_start_date?
2011-05-06T18:45:51  <McLeopold1> beta is close
2011-05-06T18:46:06  <McLeopold1> tcp_server is not a priority, although I've posted a start of a python one
2011-05-06T18:46:24  <McLeopold1> https://github.com/McLeopold/TCPServer
2011-05-06T18:46:24  <_flag> What's wrong with the old C one?
2011-05-06T18:46:31  <McLeopold1> It's not multiplayer
2011-05-06T18:46:48  <McLeopold1> but there is less wrong with it than my current python attempt
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2011-05-06T18:46:56  <_flag> Wouldn't it be easier to modify that?
2011-05-06T18:47:06  <McLeopold1> not for me, maybe for someone else
2011-05-06T18:47:15  <McLeopold1> It was harder to setup that I liked
2011-05-06T18:47:36  <_flag> Is there somewhere I can download the code? I may have some time on the weekend to look into it
2011-05-06T18:48:12  <amstan> _flag: code for the contest? see /topic
2011-05-06T18:48:13  <McLeopold1> http://www.benzedrine.cx/planetwars/server.tar.gz
2011-05-06T18:48:17  <amstan> oh.. nvm
2011-05-06T18:49:07  <_flag> thanks
2011-05-06T18:49:36  <McLeopold1> amstan: what gratuitous things have been added/changed?
2011-05-06T18:49:50  <amstan> that r line for example
2011-05-06T18:50:41  <McLeopold1> janzert mentioned strerr regressions
2011-05-06T18:52:33  <McLeopold1> amstan: Not trying to argue, just want to make sure we have the same goal/vision for this
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2011-05-06T18:54:24  <amstan> ugh.. i don't have enough free space..
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2011-05-06T19:45:40  <amstan> hello
2011-05-06T19:46:00  <amstan> well..
2011-05-06T19:46:11  <amstan> ubuntu really doesn't like me, it broke a ton of things in the update
2011-05-06T19:46:17  * amstan is never updating again like that
2011-05-06T19:47:48  <McLeopold1> I just updated my desktop last night.  I seems closer to OSX
2011-05-06T19:48:11  <amstan> i run kde, so i didn't get the unity stuff
2011-05-06T19:48:14  <McLeopold1> with the common menu bar at the top
2011-05-06T19:48:19  <McLeopold1> ah
2011-05-06T19:48:38  <amstan> the google-talk-plugin broke the flash package, so it brought down the whole upgrade process
2011-05-06T19:48:49  <McLeopold1> ouch
2011-05-06T19:48:50  <amstan> the nvidia driver was disabled, and now refuses to reenable
2011-05-06T19:49:03  <amstan> and the broadcom driver didn't want to get installed either
2011-05-06T19:49:34  <amstan> i ran the system after the upgrade a few days with sleep and so on, since i didn't wanna reboot
2011-05-06T19:49:40  <amstan> but when i rebooted everything was down
2011-05-06T19:49:45  <amstan> so.. i might as well reinstall
2011-05-06T19:49:51  <amstan> i have all the debs downloaded
2011-05-06T19:50:08  <McLeopold1> next github push does trueskill updates \o/
2011-05-06T19:50:25  <amstan> woot
2011-05-06T19:50:55  <McLeopold1> did you see my message about my mysql issues?
2011-05-06T19:51:01  <McLeopold1> I think it was transaction stuff
2011-05-06T19:51:08  <amstan> yeah, i saw that
2011-05-06T19:51:25  * McLeopold1 will leave the php hate diatrib in the comments
2011-05-06T19:51:49  <amstan> that's fine, lol
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2011-05-06T20:06:40  <CIA-33> aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * rd215716 / (6 files in 4 dirs): api_game_result now updates trueskill values - http://bit.ly/j37b92
2011-05-06T20:07:29  <McLeopold1> amstan: I'm out for awhile.  worker.py should now be able to continously run games!  the front page will show the latest.  only php ranking pages are left!
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2011-05-06T20:08:21  <McLeopold1> (and some mysql robustness in the form of transactions, someday)
2011-05-06T20:09:09  <McLeopold1> amstan: if we get these changes on hypertriangle, people can start submitting bots at least
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2011-05-06T20:29:00  <amstan> darn.. he left
2011-05-06T20:29:01  <amstan> oh well
2011-05-06T20:29:30  <amstan> "finished read test of 325GB partition, finished in 45 minutes"
2011-05-06T20:29:47  <amstan> "perform real move.. 1hour 55min left"
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2011-05-06T20:33:06  <McLeopold_> amstan: questions?
2011-05-06T20:38:12  <amstan> McLeopold_: nope, we can do this
2011-05-06T20:38:17  <amstan> McLeopold_: let me bring the host up
2011-05-06T20:38:37  <McLeopold_> I got about 3 mintues, then I really need to go.
2011-05-06T20:38:57  <amstan> McLeopold_: well.. how do i setup the worker?
2011-05-06T20:39:23  <McLeopold_> just run worker.py in continuous mode
2011-05-06T20:39:38  <amstan> what about the rest of the setup, including sandbox?
2011-05-06T20:39:45  <McLeopold_> "python worker.py -t -n 0"
2011-05-06T20:40:02  <McLeopold_> um, it should just work
2011-05-06T20:40:43  <amstan> no sandbox?
2011-05-06T20:40:53  <McLeopold_> worker.py will use sandbox
2011-05-06T20:40:58  <McLeopold_> I had it turned off for testing
2011-05-06T20:41:02  <amstan> ok
2011-05-06T20:41:04  <amstan> oh..
2011-05-06T20:41:06  <amstan> but it's not setup...
2011-05-06T20:41:15  <McLeopold_> janzert can give you details
2011-05-06T20:41:20  <McLeopold_> I was running win, so idk
2011-05-06T20:42:25  <amstan> ImportError: No module named server_info
2011-05-06T20:42:45  <amstan> nvm that
2011-05-06T20:43:03  <amstan> is there some sql i have to execute?
2011-05-06T20:44:05  <amstan> mcleopold: http://pastebin.com/fkjxFZxJ
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2011-05-06T21:45:30  <antimatroid> codejam qualification round is today people fyi
2011-05-06T22:04:31  <sigh_> antimatroid: how are you going with it?
2011-05-06T22:04:50  <antimatroid> sigh_: i haven't looked at it yet
2011-05-06T22:04:54  *** sigh_ is now known as sigh
2011-05-06T22:04:54  <antimatroid> well, i've read the first problem
2011-05-06T22:04:59  <antimatroid> but haven't actually done anything
2011-05-06T22:05:01  <antimatroid> i will in a bit
2011-05-06T22:05:15  <antimatroid> sigh_: you're probably not allowed to compete now? :P
2011-05-06T22:05:22  <sigh> yeah, can't
2011-05-06T22:05:27  <sigh> had a look at the problems though
2011-05-06T22:05:33  <sigh> the last one looks interesting
2011-05-06T22:05:51  <antimatroid> hmm, i'll take a look
2011-05-06T22:06:28  <sigh> as for the first one, either I don't understand it, or it is trivial
2011-05-06T22:06:38  <sigh> *shrug*
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2011-05-06T22:41:48  <antimatroid> http://i.imgur.com/WEWqE.png
2011-05-06T22:41:49  <antimatroid> troll maths
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2011-05-06T22:59:59  <antimatroid> sigh: have you watched big bang theory yet?
2011-05-06T23:00:04  <antimatroid> i'm quite interested in the idea of 3 player chess aha
2011-05-06T23:00:37  <sigh> I've not been keeping up the last few months
2011-05-06T23:01:05  <antimatroid> sheldon did a triangle middle with 3 8x4 edges
2011-05-06T23:01:57  <sigh> is it anything like what google images shows for 3 player chess?
2011-05-06T23:03:00  <antimatroid> slightly different actually
2011-05-06T23:03:26  <antimatroid> you have 3 rectangular grids on the edges of a traingle, then the middle is triangle squares
2011-05-06T23:04:03  <sigh> ah... good old triangle squares
2011-05-06T23:04:18  <antimatroid> i am drawing myself a board now
2011-05-06T23:04:26  <antimatroid> so i could work out how the hell moves would work with triangles
2011-05-06T23:04:40  <sigh> if only we had circle squares then we could solve a whole lot of problems
2011-05-06T23:11:00  <amstan_> what about hexagonal pieces in the middle?
2011-05-06T23:11:16  <amstan_> also.. this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_player_chess
2011-05-06T23:11:16  <antimatroid> i actually quite like this triangle way
2011-05-06T23:12:31  <antimatroid> that chess board is sweet though
2011-05-06T23:12:40  <antimatroid> it's like playing on the stacking of cubes
2011-05-06T23:13:08  <amstan_> you can only use the lawnmower when it's fully charged!
2011-05-06T23:13:16  <antimatroid> :p
2011-05-06T23:13:30  <antimatroid> i know i should have put a jet pack on my <i forget>
2011-05-06T23:13:51  <amstan> lol
2011-05-06T23:14:06  <amstan> well.. my 325GB partition is fully copied.. and safe
2011-05-06T23:14:28  <amstan> i still think i'm mad for doing this without a UPS
2011-05-06T23:14:38  <amstan> resizing partitions and moving them to the beggining of the hd
2011-05-06T23:14:40  <antimatroid> i just had a sweet idea for a game
2011-05-06T23:14:46  <antimatroid> but it's too complicated for an ai contest
2011-05-06T23:15:02  <amstan> woot.. it's done
2011-05-06T23:15:14  <antimatroid> randomly place cubes in a square lattice so that it's all connected, then randomly place pieces on the boundary squares and make people play on the resulting object
2011-05-06T23:17:01  <sigh> o_O
2011-05-06T23:17:35  <antimatroid> admit it'd be awesome :P
2011-05-06T23:17:55  <amstan_> idk..
2011-05-06T23:18:05  <amstan_> amstan: dude.. i closed the page.. leave already
2011-05-06T23:18:27  <antimatroid> kick it
2011-05-06T23:18:31  <antimatroid> ./kick
2011-05-06T23:18:40  <amstan_> i can't kick it from freenode, it'll still use my name
2011-05-06T23:18:41  <antimatroid> @roulette
2011-05-06T23:18:41  <contestbot> *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
2011-05-06T23:18:42  * contestbot reloads and spins the chambers.
2011-05-06T23:18:56  <amstan_> @roulette
2011-05-06T23:18:56  <contestbot> amstan_: *click*
2011-05-06T23:19:03  <amstan_> @roulette
2011-05-06T23:19:03  <contestbot> *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
2011-05-06T23:19:04  * contestbot reloads and spins the chambers.
2011-05-06T23:19:06  <antimatroid> you could identify yourself couldn't you?
2011-05-06T23:19:15  <antimatroid> you could identify yourself couldn't you?
2011-05-06T23:19:15  <amstan_> why isn't contestbot op?
2011-05-06T23:19:18  <antimatroid> @roulette
2011-05-06T23:19:18  <contestbot> antimatroid: *click*
2011-05-06T23:19:20  <antimatroid> @roulette
2011-05-06T23:19:20  <contestbot> antimatroid: *click*
2011-05-06T23:19:21  <antimatroid> @roulette
2011-05-06T23:19:21  <contestbot> *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
2011-05-06T23:19:22  * contestbot reloads and spins the chambers.
2011-05-06T23:19:23  <amstan_> antimatroid: i am
2011-05-06T23:19:24  <antimatroid> @roulette
2011-05-06T23:19:24  <contestbot> *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
2011-05-06T23:19:25  * contestbot reloads and spins the chambers.
2011-05-06T23:19:26  <amstan_> @kick amstan
2011-05-06T23:19:27  <contestbot> amstan_: Error: You don't have the #aichallenge,op capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
2011-05-06T23:19:32  <antimatroid> @roulette
2011-05-06T23:19:32  <contestbot> antimatroid: *click*
2011-05-06T23:19:35  <antimatroid> wtf
2011-05-06T23:19:36  <antimatroid> wtf
2011-05-06T23:19:38  <antimatroid> @roulette
2011-05-06T23:19:38  <contestbot> antimatroid: *click*
2011-05-06T23:19:42  <amstan_> antimatroid: dude.. shh
2011-05-06T23:19:43  <antimatroid> @roulette
2011-05-06T23:19:43  <contestbot> antimatroid: *click*
2011-05-06T23:19:48  <antimatroid> it wont kick me :(
2011-05-06T23:19:52  <amstan_> yes.. i know..
2011-05-06T23:20:01  <amstan_> contestbot: rankings
2011-05-06T23:20:02  <contestbot> amstan_: Top 10 players: bocsimacko(3765), _iouri_(3565), Slin-.-(3524), _Astek_(3501), jimrogerz(3500), Accoun(3498), george(3494), GreenTea(3489), asavis(3480), bix0r4ever(3476)
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2011-05-06T23:20:07  *** amstan_ is now known as amstan
2011-05-06T23:20:17  <amstan> @kick amstan
2011-05-06T23:20:17  <contestbot> amstan: Error: I need to be opped to kick someone.
2011-05-06T23:20:30  <amstan> ... i'm both identified and op.. you're not op!
2011-05-06T23:20:41  <amstan> hmm
2011-05-06T23:20:46  <amstan> ok.. w/e
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