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2011-05-17T00:11:31  <McLeopold> janzert: ping
2011-05-17T00:13:43  <McLeopold> @later tell janzert what does it mean when /srv/chroot/jailuser9/root/ is empty?
2011-05-17T00:13:43  <contestbot> McLeopold: OK
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2011-05-17T00:19:27  <McLeopold> amstan: know how to repair a broken unionfs?
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2011-05-17T01:14:25  <amstan> nope, sorry
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2011-05-17T04:05:32  <antimatroid> http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/hcwtq/what_have_you_lost_in_the_pursuit_of_your_phd/
2011-05-17T04:05:37  <antimatroid> that thread hits way too close to home
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2011-05-17T04:16:13  <dr-> antimatroid, my life will be like this for the next 3 years :p I hope I'll enjoy ...
2011-05-17T04:18:25  <antimatroid> dr-: where are you at, and what are you studying?
2011-05-17T04:18:31  <antimatroid> i have to decide what to do next year at some point :\
2011-05-17T04:18:45  <antimatroid> i finished undergrad with cs, economics and maths majors last year, doing an honours year in pure maths atm
2011-05-17T04:19:07  <antimatroid> it seems there isn't much in the way of scholarship money for coursework masters, and i really want to learn more maths
2011-05-17T04:19:14  <dr-> atm, I'm in France, studying CS (cloud security more precisely)
2011-05-17T04:19:24  <dr-> but I'm willing to move
2011-05-17T04:19:35  <antimatroid> i'm willing to move, but not to the us
2011-05-17T04:19:51  <antimatroid> my top goal was mit for a long time, but i'm not sure i could deal with the ridiculous laws in the us
2011-05-17T04:19:54  <dr-> neither do
2011-05-17T04:20:01  <dr-> I
2011-05-17T04:20:54  <dr-> Sweden and coutries around are great
2011-05-17T04:21:17  <antimatroid> i don't know any other languages, and i don't think i'd be very good at picking one up
2011-05-17T04:21:24  <antimatroid> somewhere in europe would be nice
2011-05-17T04:21:47  <dr-> almost all swedish ppl speak English
2011-05-17T04:22:38  <antimatroid> i also want a top quality uni
2011-05-17T04:22:54  <antimatroid> one of my good friends is aiming for either oxford or cambridge and will most likely get into one of them
2011-05-17T04:22:59  <dr-> a French like me is trying to master a language, so you can do it :D
2011-05-17T04:23:00  <antimatroid> i don't have the marks for that
2011-05-17T04:24:08  <Frontier> dr-: Scandinavian a good synonym for Sweden and the countries around :p
2011-05-17T04:24:08  <antimatroid> i know it's a big claim saying he will most likely, but i'm pretty sure on that opinion
2011-05-17T04:24:10  <dr-> marks are not the only thing important
2011-05-17T04:24:37  <antimatroid> yes, this guy started uni at 15, gets mostly high 90's marks, works as an ra for the same person as me, etc. etc.
2011-05-17T04:24:53  <antimatroid> he is much smarter than i, he deserves to get into somewhere like that and i suspect he will
2011-05-17T04:25:32  <antimatroid> it's rare that it is him getting help from me with assignments rather than vice versa :P
2011-05-17T04:25:33  <dr-> Frontier: indeed, it was to highlight the greatest contry of Scandinavian
2011-05-17T04:25:46  <antimatroid> i am liking australia less and less
2011-05-17T04:25:54  <antimatroid> it's an awesome place, not so much politically
2011-05-17T04:26:08  <dr-> it's the same everywhere
2011-05-17T04:26:19  <antimatroid> and a portion of the people (bogans are scum, but there's also a large chunk of somewhat subtly racist people)
2011-05-17T04:26:19  <dr-> that's why I want to leave France
2011-05-17T04:27:01  <antimatroid> i would also like to move near somewhere i could easily go snowboarding in the winter
2011-05-17T04:27:17  <antimatroid> i have only ever been snowboarding for one day in my life, but it would be my favourite sport
2011-05-17T04:27:27  <antimatroid> i used to be a skater, before uni took over my life :P
2011-05-17T04:28:00  <antimatroid> my alternative plan is to bail and go try to make lots of money with algorithmic trading
2011-05-17T04:30:17  <Frontier> "So if you walk away Who is gonna stay Cause I'd like to think the world is a better place" - The Offspring :p
2011-05-17T04:32:17  <antimatroid> there's no shortage of people for academia :P
2011-05-17T04:33:23  <Frontier> Nah that was meant politically. If everyone leaves because they don't like thinking of some people, those will rule the general opinion.
2011-05-17T04:35:13  <antimatroid> meh, I used to care about making a difference there too
2011-05-17T04:35:18  <antimatroid> but people don't even care to listen
2011-05-17T04:35:31  <Frontier> *sigh*: http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,737471,00.html
2011-05-17T04:35:44  <antimatroid> (you might gather that from the fact that i have an economics degree :P)
2011-05-17T04:36:41  <Frontier> You could work with an NGO :)
2011-05-17T04:38:22  <antimatroid> i would love to make large multinational companies that dealt with more humane food production, quality cheap clothing with no child/slave labour, similarly with electronics with no stupid restrictions, gambling and insurance resembling a fair bet less overhead etc. etc.
2011-05-17T04:38:29  <antimatroid> but i don't have access to the funds to make it happen
2011-05-17T04:38:46  <antimatroid> they would be built around image being everything
2011-05-17T04:39:20  <antimatroid> and you can't do something like that publicly, it's pretty much against the law to run a public company like that :(
2011-05-17T04:39:36  <antimatroid> i have pretty much given up on people there, i tend to just feel like consumers deserve what they get
2011-05-17T04:40:19  <antimatroid> yay, i have also turned bitter :P
2011-05-17T04:41:22  <antimatroid> another thing i would like to do would be to go into developing nations and help set them up with tools and skills to be self sustainable
2011-05-17T04:41:35  <antimatroid> teaching them that they need to make provisions in order to grow sustainably and not to be greedy with growth
2011-05-17T04:42:02  <antimatroid> and try to convince "rebel" like people to be the people in some area's who kickstart these things and try to reconcile groups in these areas
2011-05-17T04:42:11  <Frontier> hmm I'm not much of a positive thinker either. Yesterday morning I took a walk and thought that things like Fukushima just have to happen. That's how humans work. We can't be cautious before we have seen the danger. We will drink and drive until we hear what happened to others.
2011-05-17T04:42:11  <antimatroid> i realise that's very idealistic, but it'd be way better than how it's done now
2011-05-17T04:42:51  <antimatroid> it's pretty much the generalisation of the teach a man to fish analogy
2011-05-17T04:44:34  <Frontier> A lot of people in developing countries think of Europe or the USA as Walhalla until they see their first homeless on the streets.
2011-05-17T04:45:20  <antimatroid> Walhalla?
2011-05-17T04:45:38  <antimatroid> my only "international experience" is really from the internet
2011-05-17T04:45:45  <antimatroid> so it's fairly limited
2011-05-17T04:45:46  <Frontier> You can also tell people what we see positive in their country
2011-05-17T04:46:00  <Frontier> the viking paradise, walhalla
2011-05-17T04:47:14  <antimatroid> there's an ice cream company here called valhalla
2011-05-17T04:47:19  <antimatroid> they make tasty ice cream
2011-05-17T04:47:40  <Frontier> And there is a Led Zeppelin song referring to it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCvMKcNJCAY
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2011-05-17T09:26:53  <CIA-48> aichallenge: janzert epsilon * r0013ac6 / setup/server_setup.py : Correct attribute name in server_setup.py - http://bit.ly/jXu8Nn
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2011-05-17T12:54:08  <smiley1983> I think this water tile is much easier on the eyes than the current default: http://preview.tinyurl.com/3htx5a6
2011-05-17T12:54:24  <Frontier> let me see
2011-05-17T12:55:15  <Frontier> yeah, you are right
2011-05-17T12:56:27  <smiley1983> Here is the tile by itself: http://preview.tinyurl.com/6jy5tuc
2011-05-17T12:58:25  <Frontier> how did you get the idea to change the color?
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2011-05-17T13:04:14  <Frontier> smiley1983: did the color just make your eyes bleed or are you working as a designer somewhere?
2011-05-17T13:08:08  <Frontier> ah I know, you play a lot of minecraft and tried different texture packs
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2011-05-17T13:17:46  <smiley1983> Frontier: I thought a better colour might be found, so I asked an artist friend and she suggested something like the result.
2011-05-17T13:18:45  <Frontier> That's nice. She can draw me some button images, too :p
2011-05-17T13:20:06  <smiley1983> lol. That might require financial encouragement. :)
2011-05-17T13:23:33  <Frontier> It is really everybody's ideas that make this challenge great. The visualizer wouldn't be half as good without people constantly asking me to change or add something. That way I learnt what others expect or how they would like to use the software.
2011-05-17T13:25:09  <smiley1983> Yes. If you want button images, it's quite possible someone can create or suggest some good free ones. Do you know what you would want from such images?
2011-05-17T13:25:16  <Frontier> Discussing strategies or the next game is also fun. You never know if someone comes up with a genetic algorithm that creates a really good bot.
2011-05-17T13:25:45  <smiley1983> I would have liked to see what the space.invaders people could have done with more time and processing power
2011-05-17T13:26:10  <Frontier> Well, I'm happy with the ones I have. It's just that I made most of the toolbar images in a hurry without antialiasing or even colors.
2011-05-17T13:27:45  <smiley1983> Right. I hadn't noticed any problem with them, but I'm not really the right person to comment on design, since I like simple and functional even if it's not pretty.
2011-05-17T13:27:49  <Frontier> But the shadow effect (not visible in Chrome) makes them look quite cool. I rely on special effects here :p
2011-05-17T13:28:15  <smiley1983> I'll load it in firefox to see (I use chromium by default)
2011-05-17T13:29:19  <berak> Frontier: you 're doing great here, but my wish here is: please increase the percentage of 'game content visible' compared to 'ui, player info and all that' and please skip this silly marble  border
2011-05-17T13:30:19  <Frontier> there is no more border in the latest versions. I'll see what I can do about the visible area go fullscreen already ;)
2011-05-17T13:30:36  <berak> gerat!
2011-05-17T13:31:28  <smiley1983> I like the row, col info on mouseover, hadn't noticed that before
2011-05-17T13:31:58  <Frontier> It is new. I added it on Sunday or Monday
2011-05-17T13:32:29  <smiley1983> berak: it's possible you haven't seen the new colourscheme and water tiles either then?
2011-05-17T13:32:36  <Frontier> when you zoom in to max, you can see the attack radii by the way
2011-05-17T13:33:04  <berak> i always grin from ear to ear when i see new food spawning..   // yeah week old
2011-05-17T13:33:49  <Frontier> The food is a bit hyperactive :-D
2011-05-17T13:34:17  <smiley1983> Ah, attack radii on mouseover - that's useful.
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2011-05-17T13:42:22  <berak> maps, that are more vertically aligned(height>width) are wasting a lot of space here
2011-05-17T13:43:22  <Frontier> berak: What can I do?
2011-05-17T13:43:49  <smiley1983> That's a good point - preferencing wide maps gives better use of the screen, and doesn't really have an effect on the game
2011-05-17T13:44:35  <berak> Frontier, not you was trying to say that to the ppl who write the map generators
2011-05-17T13:44:57  <smiley1983> haha... I wonder how much work would be to add a "rotate view" button... :)
2011-05-17T13:46:00  <Frontier> :-/
2011-05-17T13:47:19  <smiley1983> of course, there's no reason other people shouldn't write it if they want it. :) I'm quite happy with expanding the window beyond my screen's dimensions so the map takes the whole screen
2011-05-17T13:54:27  <Frontier> I'm at 3200 lines with my *.js files :-)
2011-05-17T13:55:43  <berak> yeah, ~100 k, last measured
2011-05-17T13:58:23  <berak> but the browser caching  all of that seem to work here
2011-05-17T14:01:54  <Frontier> Let's see how big the replays become :)
2011-05-17T14:02:53  <Frontier> I find it funny that if we run 8 players for 450 turns, 1 second each, we end up with 1 hour of cpu time per game.
2011-05-17T14:04:19  <berak> yeah, fiddling with an async 'tcp-replacement' on noodle's app engine here
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2011-05-17T14:06:39  <Frontier> what is noodle's app engine?
2011-05-17T14:07:29  <berak> have  a worker task wake up every 5 seconds, unpickle an ants game, do the turns, pickle back to db
2011-05-17T14:07:32  <berak> google
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2011-05-17T14:08:07  <Frontier> @google noodle's app engine
2011-05-17T14:08:08  <contestbot> Frontier: noodle-ng - Noodle is a web search engine for local smb/cifs ...: <https://code.google.com/p/noodle-ng/updates/list>; production_template.ini - noodle-ng - Noodle is a web search ...: <https://code.google.com/p/noodle-ng/source/browse/branches/opensearchdescription/production_template.ini?r=76>; Noodle_NG.wsgi - noodle-ng - Noodle is a web search engine for ...: (2 more messages)
2011-05-17T14:08:58  <Frontier> google's app engine?
2011-05-17T14:09:00  <berak> oh, shhoeshine, didn'nt want to cause that ...
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2011-05-17T14:11:36  <Frontier> lol. I see, so you use google app engine to host a tcp service for the ants game?
2011-05-17T14:13:31  <berak> yeh, i'm trying (made the same computation, you did some lines before..) so let's wait till i solved the synchronizing ;)
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2011-05-17T14:15:23  <Frontier> Rumors spread fast, especially about tcp servers. Everyone is waiting for them.
2011-05-17T14:17:38  <berak> how many cores you need to give ~6000 players a decent trueskill result, given a gameloop, that's sitting idle for 10 min(6 players, 100 turns)
2011-05-17T14:18:39  <Frontier> 100 turns?
2011-05-17T14:19:13  <berak> isn't that the default length ?
2011-05-17T14:21:21  <Frontier> berak: I don't know if there is a default. But 100 turns doesn't mean much in the games I have seen. At turn 60 the bots lose their first ants :)
2011-05-17T14:21:57  <berak> but the server sitting idle( with the current engine) is the point
2011-05-17T14:22:58  <Frontier> what do you mean by sitting idle?
2011-05-17T14:23:46  <berak> most of the time spent is  waiting for players input
2011-05-17T14:23:53  <Frontier> I assumed you replaced the engine with a dummy that just waits 10 min and then returns a random outcome
2011-05-17T14:24:08  <Frontier> Ok, that makes sense
2011-05-17T14:24:12  <berak> can't have that in the cloud
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2011-05-17T14:25:36  <berak> no, i'm caching the player's input in a db, when the game wakes up(after some secs) it just queries that
2011-05-17T14:26:22  <berak> but it's still totally async :(
2011-05-17T14:28:42  <Frontier> what are the 5 seconds good for? how many worker tasks/threads are there and how many games are loaded at the same time?
2011-05-17T14:30:02  <berak> 1 task(worker) per game, every 5 secs
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2011-05-17T14:31:52  <berak> but this async/parallel stuff blows my mind, when i'm trying to debug it
2011-05-17T14:32:25  <berak> now, whodunnit, and when ?
2011-05-17T14:33:08  <McLeopold> whodunwhat?
2011-05-17T14:34:02  <berak> who made a move( given, it's async/http-based)
2011-05-17T14:35:58  <berak> trying to do an online http test server here (on appengine)
2011-05-17T14:36:03  <Frontier> man, i really haven't grasped the whole idea yet.
2011-05-17T14:36:41  <Frontier> give the clients a token that they have to use to identify themselves on every move
2011-05-17T14:37:16  <McLeopold> wouldn't you have a persistance tcp connection per client?
2011-05-17T14:38:14  <berak> speaking http, not tcp, here
2011-05-17T14:38:17  <Frontier> http is known to disconnect after a request
2011-05-17T14:38:20  <McLeopold> Frontier: the front page visualizer has expanded the width to overlap the sidebar :(
2011-05-17T14:38:29  <McLeopold> keep-alive?
2011-05-17T14:38:40  <Frontier> keep-alive is more of a hint I guess
2011-05-17T14:38:48  <berak> 1 shot only
2011-05-17T14:38:59  <Frontier> and who made the visualizer wider than the layout?
2011-05-17T14:39:30  <janzert> because of the way google app engine works I can't imagine it'll let you keep a persistent connection per player for an entire game
2011-05-17T14:39:38  <McLeopold> Frontier: I'm not sure where to set it back.  The canvas tag is created with javascript?
2011-05-17T14:39:59  <Frontier> amstan created a php widget for it
2011-05-17T14:40:12  <Frontier> you can set the width there. i think it is 550... or was at least
2011-05-17T14:40:19  <McLeopold> janzert: my unionfs-fuse stuff freaked out last night, but now it's healed itself.  I'm clueless.
2011-05-17T14:40:44  <janzert> I saw your message but I've no idea what would cause that
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2011-05-17T14:41:23  <McLeopold> I think the fstab stuff wasn't mounting correcly, but I never figured out why.
2011-05-17T14:42:02  <janzert> btw, when the worker compiles a submission should it currently be reporting back the language correctly?
2011-05-17T14:42:37  <janzert> my test server after compiling a submission shows: May 17th 09:27:44 	successfully entered into contest 	Unknown
2011-05-17T14:42:54  <McLeopold> janzert: haven't looked in a while, but last I coded was to send a string only.  The api.php files should create the new language id if it doesn't exist, which I still need to write
2011-05-17T14:44:48  <Frontier> hehe, does it use a genetic algorithm to create new languages?
2011-05-17T14:45:05  <Frontier> oh only the id... damnit
2011-05-17T14:56:06  <CIA-48> aichallenge: janzert epsilon * r44e3ab1 / setup/server_setup.py : Couple of small fixes to server_setup - http://bit.ly/lkUYgm
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2011-05-17T15:53:05  <justin_pdx> Hey all I was just checking out the forums, looks like you're getting ready for another challenge?
2011-05-17T15:54:42  <_flag> Yup
2011-05-17T15:54:53  <_flag> See here: https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge
2011-05-17T15:56:02  <justin_pdx> Sweet.  Are people playing yet?
2011-05-17T15:56:18  <justin_pdx> Even if unranked?
2011-05-17T15:56:28  <_flag> No, not yet
2011-05-17T15:56:59  <justin_pdx> Oh cool, wiki has content on github, I'll catch myself up.  :D
2011-05-17T15:57:05  <_flag> I think there's supposed to be a beta of the site up in the coming week, but I'm not in charge
2011-05-17T15:57:07  <justin_pdx> Thank you.
2011-05-17T15:57:11  <_flag> The wiki is a little out of data I think
2011-05-17T15:57:17  <_flag> But most of it should be there
2011-05-17T15:57:31  <_flag> out of date*
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2011-05-17T16:22:46  <CIA-48> aichallenge: janzert epsilon * ra4db6a4 / setup/worker_setup.py : Fix worker to set appropriate ownership on its server_info - http://bit.ly/loiFBB
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2011-05-17T16:51:55  <mcstar> offtopic
2011-05-17T16:52:07  <mcstar> if you have the chance, pls try out ranger
2011-05-17T16:52:34  <mcstar> its a very very good console miller-columns based file manager
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2011-05-17T16:56:54  <CIA-48> aichallenge: janzert epsilon * r658bf3c / (worker/compiler.py worker/worker.py): Minor cleanup of compiler module - http://bit.ly/kYSgMx
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2011-05-17T17:38:43  <bhasker> http://bellard.org/jslinux/tech.html
2011-05-17T17:38:49  <bhasker> anyone see this pretty neat stuff
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2011-05-17T17:49:24  <CIA-48> aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * r4f35ad5 / (12 files in 8 dirs): some fixes to worker/manager (in progress) - http://bit.ly/m2hlBQ
2011-05-17T17:49:24  <CIA-48> aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * r7655b85 / (4 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'epsilon' of https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge into epsilon - http://bit.ly/lYsP2b
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2011-05-17T19:00:56  <antimatroid1> bah, i'm almost ready to move away from ubuntu again
2011-05-17T19:01:01  <antimatroid1> it crashes all the god damn time!
2011-05-17T19:01:09  <antimatroid1> i expected it to be more stable than windows :(
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2011-05-17T19:09:03  <mcstar> :)
2011-05-17T19:09:14  <mcstar> must be user error
2011-05-17T19:10:18  <mcstar> you should consider hardware failure as a possible explanation though
2011-05-17T19:11:36  <mcstar> and im quite stupid
2011-05-17T19:11:53  <mcstar> he has crashed again and im talking to him :)
2011-05-17T19:12:22  <antimatroid1> i am still here :P
2011-05-17T19:12:30  <mcstar> yes i see the *1 now
2011-05-17T19:12:31  <antimatroid1> i think it happens when too much memory gets used
2011-05-17T19:12:45  <antimatroid1> it just feezes up and my easiest solution is to restart :(
2011-05-17T19:13:00  <mcstar> what eats up that?
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2011-05-17T19:13:12  <antimatroid1> chrome i suspect
2011-05-17T19:13:20  <mcstar> oh
2011-05-17T19:13:22  <antimatroid1> reddit mostly
2011-05-17T19:13:54  <mcstar> when you said crashes i thought real crash
2011-05-17T19:14:01  <antimatroid1> :p
2011-05-17T19:14:02  <mcstar> cause that is pretty rare nowadays
2011-05-17T19:14:06  <antimatroid1> sorry
2011-05-17T19:14:09  <Zannick> how much ram does your machine have?
2011-05-17T19:14:14  <antimatroid1> 4gb
2011-05-17T19:14:20  <mcstar> 6 for me
2011-05-17T19:14:38  <Zannick> yeah, that's...should be enough
2011-05-17T19:14:59  <mcstar> mathematica eats up that too pretty fast
2011-05-17T19:15:11  <antimatroid1> i don't use mathematica :P
2011-05-17T19:15:21  <mcstar> recently i wanted to list the subsets of a set
2011-05-17T19:15:25  <antimatroid1> bah oh well, shower time
2011-05-17T19:15:32  <mcstar> and you know it can be pretty demanding :D
2011-05-17T19:15:49  <mcstar> in like 2 secs it ate it all up
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2011-05-17T20:04:26  <CIA-48> aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * ra388e3b / (9 files in 6 dirs): updates to worker - http://bit.ly/iK7Fqh
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2011-05-17T20:51:51  <janzert> is there a script to build all the starter packages yet?
2011-05-17T20:52:39  <janzert> by build I basically mean zip them up
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2011-05-17T21:55:14  <amstan> janzert: yes
2011-05-17T21:55:16  <amstan> make in the folder
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2011-05-17T23:03:21  <CIA-48> aichallenge: janzert epsilon * rcbc78cd / setup/server_setup.py : Package and prepare starter_packages for download in server_setup - http://bit.ly/lngSbS
2011-05-17T23:05:11  <amstan> janzert: we also need some install things for the website, and the visualizer
2011-05-17T23:05:25  <amstan> see README.md for more details how they're done now
2011-05-17T23:06:07  <janzert> feel free to add them :)
2011-05-17T23:06:17  <janzert> on my way to bed atm
2011-05-17T23:08:07  <amstan> ok
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