2011-06-14T00:02:30 *** antimatroid has quit IRC (Read error: No route to host) 2011-06-14T00:02:46 *** antimatroid has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T00:02:58 *** janzert has left #aichallenge 2011-06-14T00:05:01 *** antimatroid1 has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T00:05:01 *** antimatroid has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-06-14T00:14:41 *** mleise has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T00:36:01 *** UncleVasya has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T00:37:30 *** Accoun has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-06-14T00:41:33 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T00:50:13 *** delt0r_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T00:51:39 *** delt0r- has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2011-06-14T01:03:24 You were talking about front yesterday. I didn't know my bot can do something like that (turns 600+): http://aichallengebeta.hypertriangle.com/visualizer.php?game=23104&user=26 2011-06-14T01:11:31 *** UncleVasya has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-06-14T01:16:51 *** mleise has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2011-06-14T01:35:23 *** sigh has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-06-14T01:36:36 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T01:48:20 *** UncleVasya has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T01:48:28 *** antimatroid has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T01:49:16 *** antimatroid1 has quit IRC (Read error: No route to host) 2011-06-14T02:29:41 *** UncleVasya has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-06-14T02:46:40 *** Ice_Harley has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T02:48:49 *** dr- has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T02:56:38 *** sigh has quit IRC (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2011-06-14T02:57:41 *** Eruonen has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T03:04:26 *** Zaphus has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T03:07:08 *** UncleVasya has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T03:08:00 *** amstan has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2011-06-14T03:08:30 Zaphus: Hi. Are you here now? 2011-06-14T03:12:15 On my phone, can't download until I get home in a few hours 2011-06-14T03:13:07 Got something new to test ? 2011-06-14T03:16:04 *** locutus2 has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T03:17:29 *** Palmik has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T03:19:02 Can anyone here view to the end of game 23552 ? I can't get past turn 200 or so on my browser 2011-06-14T03:19:54 Zaphus: I'll do. 2011-06-14T03:22:04 Zaphus: Do you still believe we can make it work? I do. And I think that problem already fixed. I did download of a new environment and make app work with it. I hope it will work on your computer too. 2011-06-14T03:22:47 *** aerique has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T03:23:08 Excellent, will test tonight 2011-06-14T03:23:27 *made 2011-06-14T03:25:50 Zaphus: I look at the replay right now. What do you want to know? 2011-06-14T03:26:10 That game blows up java at around turn 453 for me, don't get to see The end 2011-06-14T03:27:07 I assume I have a lot of ants at that point 2011-06-14T03:28:33 Yes, game situation remains the same, only amount of ants became bigger and bigger. Nothing really changes. 2011-06-14T03:29:10 And FPS lowing down :) 2011-06-14T03:29:38 I should implement attacking :) 2011-06-14T03:29:57 Or fix the timeout 2011-06-14T03:31:01 Your ants slowly killing Malvaian's ants. His territory became lesser and lesser... 2011-06-14T03:31:54 Only 9 of his ants where alive when you timed out. 2011-06-14T03:32:03 Pity - I can't tell where it times out 2011-06-14T03:32:27 Their band was "hiding" near the water. 2011-06-14T03:33:03 Will have to watch when I get home 2011-06-14T03:33:40 Zaphus: I'll try to guess the problem. 2011-06-14T03:34:20 One of his ants was blocking a way to another 7 his ants. 2011-06-14T03:35:20 Maybe every your ant have tried to find a way to them but couldn't? 2011-06-14T03:36:37 Zaphus: If you not going to come home soon I can upload screenshots of that position. 2011-06-14T03:40:11 Nah, that's ok . Got to go play a beach volleyball match. See you in a coulpevof hours 2011-06-14T03:41:07 *** Zaphus has quit IRC (Quit: Bye) 2011-06-14T03:59:21 *** carlop has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T04:05:24 *** qacek has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5) 2011-06-14T04:07:10 *** Accoun has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-06-14T04:07:11 *** locutus2 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-06-14T04:08:10 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T04:18:05 *** Naktibalda has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T04:24:44 *** sir_macelon has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T04:25:54 hi 2011-06-14T04:26:02 *** locutus2 has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T04:31:35 hi 2011-06-14T04:34:27 so the attack range has been changed to 9 i see 2011-06-14T04:45:14 *** olexs has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T04:52:46 *** stocha has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T04:52:59 sir_macelon: isn't it frustrating that java doesn't work in there ? 2011-06-14T04:53:56 stocha: yes, it is very, but i don't rely on that, more on local testing with your bot as enemy :) 2011-06-14T04:54:55 although i could get more test data if it had worked better 2011-06-14T04:55:34 sir_macelon: how does the local testing go ? what's your victory percentage with radius = 9 ? 2011-06-14T04:56:14 also i found a bug. So if you go with close to 2^n + a (where a is small) map width, you should see the bot behaving badly. 2011-06-14T04:56:31 i'm not checking the victory percentage yet but the behaviour in micro strategy 2011-06-14T04:56:47 like 65 width, and 127 width. That should break the bot behavior (although i didn't really test further in fact, just found the low level bug) 2011-06-14T04:56:58 sir_macelon: you test combat ? or ? 2011-06-14T04:57:02 currently i'm still testing on the symmetric_10 map, didn't check other maps yet 2011-06-14T04:57:13 is my bot winning ? :p 2011-06-14T04:57:15 still trying to polish for these situations 2011-06-14T04:57:35 now it's getting crushed pretty easily :) 2011-06-14T04:57:51 but still it's bettern than python hunter bot 2011-06-14T04:58:03 the motivation behing publishing my bot was that it is easy to make, and that i was certain a lot of people would implement the idea that are in. 2011-06-14T04:58:11 no battle tactics at all and your ants easily die in 2v1 combat 2011-06-14T04:58:25 even with radius=9 ? 2011-06-14T04:58:37 with radius=9 it is even easier 2011-06-14T04:58:56 i didn't though it would be so much time before people can test in a real setting though. I though people would use my bot for one or two weeks. 2011-06-14T04:59:04 as i checked some games on the beta now 2011-06-14T04:59:06 what does the map look like ? 2011-06-14T04:59:12 but didn't test it locally yet 2011-06-14T04:59:19 i though with tiny corridors, the clustering would make it okay. 2011-06-14T04:59:30 it's symmetric_10 from the official map set 2011-06-14T04:59:32 oh, my bot is not on the server now. 2011-06-14T04:59:42 it's a c starter bot i think. 2011-06-14T04:59:50 under the name stocha. 2011-06-14T04:59:57 yes, but i saw how my bot performes with the 9 radius on 2v1 2011-06-14T05:00:17 do you work for nokia ? 2011-06-14T05:00:34 and it does handle it pretty well 2011-06-14T05:00:37 yup 2011-06-14T05:01:23 you use the official engine for testing ? 2011-06-14T05:01:30 or do you have your own framework ? 2011-06-14T05:01:56 yes, i download it from github from time to time if there are major changes 2011-06-14T05:02:18 sir_macelon: I can give you my bot. It's better then HunterBot. stocha's bot much better than my and your current bot better but maybe it will be helpful. My doesn't crash. 2011-06-14T05:02:21 i was thinking about own framework 2011-06-14T05:03:02 but i've dediced it would be to much work 2011-06-14T05:03:22 maybe if the engine would be written in java then i could take it 2011-06-14T05:03:27 as it was for planet wars 2011-06-14T05:03:40 but i'm pretty confident with the jUnit 2011-06-14T05:06:17 UncleVasya: thanks bot if your bot is not stronger than stocha's then it won't help me i think, but thanks anyway 2011-06-14T05:06:17 *** olexs has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2011-06-14T05:06:17 stocha: if i win the contest, then you will get a big credit for uploading your bot ;) 2011-06-14T05:19:19 *** GreenTea has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T05:19:37 Hi 2011-06-14T05:19:51 attack range will be 3 or 2? 2011-06-14T05:20:40 now it is 3 2011-06-14T05:22:09 yes I see.. 2011-06-14T05:22:19 where is stocha's bot? 2011-06-14T05:23:05 *** locutus2 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2011-06-14T05:25:56 so.. it will stay 3 or can be returned back to 2? 2011-06-14T05:28:29 dunno, it's under testing, it has been changed just recently 2011-06-14T05:29:09 but i think it won't change back to 2, to make blocking harder 2011-06-14T05:33:26 *** UncleVasya has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-06-14T05:33:49 *** olexs has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T05:36:07 it is 3 inclusvie, right (ie up to and including 3)? 2011-06-14T05:39:37 *** olexs has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2011-06-14T05:50:39 yes 2011-06-14T05:58:08 *** Zaphus has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T05:58:44 evening all 2011-06-14T06:03:54 *** GreenTea has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-06-14T06:04:04 antimatroid: is there any way to take a replay from the server, and grab a single frames worth of data to send to my bot ? I want to know why it times out in that situation 2011-06-14T06:05:41 sir_macelon: now i kinda hope you'll win. Or that you'll be second, and i first :p 2011-06-14T06:06:44 stocha: i'll try to do my best and achieve my goal :) 2011-06-14T06:06:54 i think it's logical that i uploaded my bot. And it was probably usefull for at least a few people. So it's worthy work. Maybe tomorow 'ill be bored about ant and make nothing more. 2011-06-14T06:07:05 sir_macelon: why do you want to win ? 2011-06-14T06:07:46 i have built a testing framework in the early days. it doesn't add much, because it's mainly for testing bot whole strategy. no unit tests. 2011-06-14T06:07:53 stocha: it is a contest isn't it? 2011-06-14T06:08:02 sir_macelon: how do you use junit ? 2011-06-14T06:08:27 Zaphus: there is a reply converter issue opened, you could push it 2011-06-14T06:08:33 sir_macelon: speaking with some people, i happened to remark that most that really want to win, would have some statable reasons. If one dig enough to find them :p 2011-06-14T06:09:23 I know i did. but i don't know if they are good reasons really :) And then i'm not to fancy about them either. 2011-06-14T06:09:43 stocha: what i learned from planet wars challenge is that unit test is a must, saves a lot of debugging time 2011-06-14T06:10:43 sir_macelon: Thanks, I've added a comment to that issue 2011-06-14T06:10:55 yeah. i happend to find this nasty bug in my most basic functions. That would render every experiment i ran hard to conclude out of. 2011-06-14T06:11:12 but then ... i did do some test on this part ! 2011-06-14T06:11:27 you need to make a proper design of your bot to enable easy mocking and stubbing 2011-06-14T06:11:28 maybe they were not the appropriate tests though. 2011-06-14T06:11:30 sir_macelon: I've never written a unit test - is that simply a case of "given this input, we expect this output" for lots of cases ? 2011-06-14T06:11:31 *** UncleVasya has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T06:11:40 Hi Uncle 2011-06-14T06:11:42 to easily set up small situations 2011-06-14T06:11:56 and you need to know what is the opitmal move then 2011-06-14T06:12:09 Zaphus: you're welcome :) 2011-06-14T06:12:13 or at least the move you want it to make 2011-06-14T06:12:39 Zaphus: yes, in a nut shell, that's it 2011-06-14T06:12:57 Zaphus: Are you at home already 2011-06-14T06:13:00 Maybe i could build a java test frame work and just realeas that. But it seems java bot are already at huge advantage, looking at the test server. Except that java does not work i mean. 2011-06-14T06:13:01 ? 2011-06-14T06:13:43 i wonder if other strong java bots, used mine for tuning. 2011-06-14T06:14:32 UncleVasya: Yes, home now 2011-06-14T06:14:36 Zaphus: that's certainly how i define it. 2011-06-14T06:14:49 unit test 2011-06-14T06:14:54 Zaphus: http://www.filefactory.com/file/ccdd2e6/n/AntsTesting_0.3_RC_3_Zaphus.7z 2011-06-14T06:15:02 stocha: why do you think Java has an advantage ? 2011-06-14T06:15:27 Zaphus: because when i looked at the test server, the strongest bots where the java ones. 2011-06-14T06:15:36 it was some time ago now. maybe a week. or two ? 2011-06-14T06:15:47 i don't have clear picture of time line :p 2011-06-14T06:16:07 stocha: so what you really mean is that the best coders happen to be using Java, I doubt that the language is the reason they are doing well 2011-06-14T06:16:09 Zaphus: maybe it's good that jvm doesn't work on official test after all :p 2011-06-14T06:16:21 stocha: what would you plan to include in that test framework? 2011-06-14T06:16:24 Zaphus: maybe there are other factors 2011-06-14T06:16:33 some sample battle situations? 2011-06-14T06:17:11 sir_macelon: the possibility to hand craft a map situation, affect a bot to each side, and watch it move by move mainly. Then you need some way to ouput internal state. That i have still to image what it should look like :p 2011-06-14T06:17:51 sir_macelon: obvioulsy a way to autogenerate the handcrafter maps also, would be an addition :p 2011-06-14T06:18:01 UncleVasya: It Works !!! 2011-06-14T06:18:20 I am happy! 2011-06-14T06:18:26 UncleVasya: you need to add the --attackradius2 option, since thats currently being played with (was 4, now 9) 2011-06-14T06:18:36 stocha: well that is just what my junit tests are doing, but only for one turn 2011-06-14T06:18:46 sir_macelon: maybe a way to play the game, out of non wrapping map also. like you hand craft a part of the map, and then the rest is random. i don't know :p 2011-06-14T06:18:58 but i prefer to create situations manually 2011-06-14T06:19:08 Zaphus: thanks for suggestions. It's exactly what I need. 2011-06-14T06:19:13 when i observe my bot moving suboptimally 2011-06-14T06:19:15 i know that the wrapping cripted some of my try at unit test. 2011-06-14T06:19:52 UncleVasya: also, the title is "3/21" which I guess is 3/21 maps, but only 3 were possible 2011-06-14T06:20:00 you'd then need to write the whole engine 2011-06-14T06:20:11 sir_macelon: i already have whole engine. 2011-06-14T06:20:34 i used it to build the stocha bot. It was like a 7th generation bot. 2011-06-14T06:20:36 stocha: tested? 2011-06-14T06:20:48 the 1st generation being random direction for each ant, with no collision code :p 2011-06-14T06:20:57 no consideration of water and food. 2011-06-14T06:21:03 i've opened two issues against the engine 2011-06-14T06:21:15 and both are not yet solved i think 2011-06-14T06:21:24 my engine was built with some simplifications i think. 2011-06-14T06:21:32 Zaphus: yeah, I don't count possible maps amount, but it may go like "1/21 5/21 17/21" 2011-06-14T06:21:38 for example food trigger radius was fixed at 1 2011-06-14T06:21:48 (cross around food) 2011-06-14T06:22:02 *** antimatroid has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2011-06-14T06:22:08 i am wrong, one with 'None 2011-06-14T06:22:15 ' is fixed already 2011-06-14T06:22:30 sir_macelon: maybe at this time, my engine is okay. It doesn't do scoring also. only count the ant of each side. 2011-06-14T06:22:32 *** FireFly has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T06:22:43 And then, i didn't try to hard to debug it. 2011-06-14T06:23:09 stocha: so indeed you have a good starting point :P 2011-06-14T06:23:15 You have some gif of it, on the forum. There used to have applets also, but my server is down now that i don't have the fund to pay for it :p 2011-06-14T06:23:43 UncleVasya: Is there another options that people can want for testing? 2011-06-14T06:23:47 sir_macelon: i can publish the code if people wants to work on it maybe. i don't know how to publish it though. 2011-06-14T06:23:50 wow, again :) 2011-06-14T06:23:59 Zaphus: Is there another options that people can want for testing? 2011-06-14T06:24:01 sir_macelon: so for unit tests, are you doing it within your own codebase (i.e. code linked together with your bot) or as an external app 2011-06-14T06:24:02 i don't know what kindof state it is in 2011-06-14T06:24:06 you can use the git repository 2011-06-14T06:24:22 make it public, maybe people would work on it 2011-06-14T06:24:29 sir_macelon: the official one ? i there a branch for wild and mad experiments ? 2011-06-14T06:24:52 UncleVasya: How about "Only maps of this number of bots" (because it currently tests 4,5 as well as 6 when you have 6 bots) 2011-06-14T06:25:01 sir_macelon: i was more inclined to put it in a separate place; Official stuff is heavy and messy as it is. 2011-06-14T06:25:29 sir_macelon: maybe i email you the code, (let's say it's gnu licence) and then you do whatever you want with it ? :p 2011-06-14T06:25:31 Zaphus: i create unit tests for separate classes or sets of classes if they are coupled 2011-06-14T06:25:51 you put it in the official if you think it's good, you put in your trash if it's not usable as it is, i don't know :p 2011-06-14T06:26:13 stocha: you can just make another git repository at github, unrelated to the official one 2011-06-14T06:26:23 so they are running together with my bot's code, but not in a way an engine would run it 2011-06-14T06:27:06 stocha: just create your own account and repository on github 2011-06-14T06:27:10 Zaphus: then i will have to learn how to use it. i have few energy to do ant related stuff as it is. i'm not too happy with learning with new tools, unless in very good mood 2011-06-14T06:27:20 it is a consipiration isn't it. 2011-06-14T06:27:30 okay maybe i'll do just that but there is problem. 2011-06-14T06:27:35 Zaphus: I'll add an --attackradius2 option and then make a release on the forums. Then updates will go. 2011-06-14T06:27:46 1) low functions i use are used also in the engine 2011-06-14T06:28:01 stocha: fair enough, got to use your time wisely 2011-06-14T06:28:03 (wich when i think of it, means it will suffer from the same bug, well well) 2011-06-14T06:28:17 i think i would be happy to publish it really. 2011-06-14T06:28:35 i felt very good about the idea that some people found my bot actually usefull :) 2011-06-14T06:28:41 when i published it. 2011-06-14T06:29:05 stocha: if you are familiar to svn then it shouldn't be hard 2011-06-14T06:29:07 i think guys like antimatroid might feel that i twist too much the constest though. i know he did when he learnt that i published my bot. 2011-06-14T06:29:11 Zaphus: Also before release i need to fix language mistakes. Are they exists? 2011-06-14T06:29:23 *** Accoun has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-06-14T06:29:38 i used to use svn a lot (for very basic version control). I stoped using it on my own projects a few years ago though :p 2011-06-14T06:29:47 UncleVasya: Just checking, plus looking for some other bugs, hang on 2011-06-14T06:30:32 seeing how things goes right now, i'm might as well publish the framework. buggy and maybe bad written as it is. to bad if people use it and it gives an advantage to java people :p 2011-06-14T06:30:54 UncleVasya: Bug: The Total line (in blue) only gives the first four bots, needs to do all that were in any map, same for places & survived 2011-06-14T06:30:57 i've learned svn just a couple of months ago and i consider myself still new to it 2011-06-14T06:31:03 If it was me, i could even publish stocha_bot code. but then i'll be fired for sure :p 2011-06-14T06:31:20 but it took me minutes to set my git repo 2011-06-14T06:31:23 UncleVasya: "Bad End" should be "Failures" (or something like that) 2011-06-14T06:31:28 with tutorial 2011-06-14T06:31:36 let me try to do that then. will see. 2011-06-14T06:32:25 UncleVasya: Bug: Running for a second time gives a "testing" tab with nothing in it, if you switch tabs and come back it's got stuff (maps and bots) 2011-06-14T06:32:51 stocha: you're published bot can be decompiled anyway, in fact i did it, but it was too messy for me to take a look inside :P 2011-06-14T06:33:04 *your 2011-06-14T06:33:29 sir_macelon: you have all the debug info inside don't you ? 2011-06-14T06:33:55 sir_macelon: i stated on the forum, that it was forbiden to decompile it. you are lucky i don't know you did, or i would sue you ! 2011-06-14T06:34:13 sir_macelon: what was messy about it ? x_x 2011-06-14T06:34:27 bit operations 2011-06-14T06:34:34 ah yeah it's one of the old version also. 2011-06-14T06:34:49 so all the code is down there, if not in the upper class. quite messy the bot itself. 2011-06-14T06:36:01 i think i'll try to publish my old testing framework. it gives me something to do after all. i'm not that much into the game as i was when i built the stocha bots, and run all my experiments to understand the game :p 2011-06-14T06:36:15 i'm afraid you will find it messy though :p 2011-06-14T06:36:38 but the thing is, bit operation framework, really unable to have a fast and clean engine for the game. Even if mine isn't :p 2011-06-14T06:36:58 enable not unable. 2011-06-14T06:38:57 arrr, they use ssh keys. it's a damn hard thing to use with a mac. i didn't found any free sftp using ssh key for mac os x. 2011-06-14T06:39:31 so is there a tool to do testing outside of the code (i.e. I feed data to the bot like the engine would) ? 2011-06-14T06:39:40 you can use http instead 2011-06-14T06:40:17 my testing framework had java to java interface for bot communication. 2011-06-14T06:40:51 for example i wrapped the stocha-bot inside the java starter bot through a bridge. 2011-06-14T06:41:00 *** locutus2 has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T06:41:13 because it was already working on my own engine, it ran clean with the real one after the wrapping 2011-06-14T06:41:30 Zaphus: what would you expect from such tool to do? 2011-06-14T06:42:09 *** olexs has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T06:42:18 same thing, just using the actual game inputs rather than... whatever it is you do with unit testing 2011-06-14T06:42:59 the advantage of unit testing is that you can debug code with ide 2011-06-14T06:43:07 you can access the object's state 2011-06-14T06:43:17 I guess I just dont know how you would feed it the data. but yes, I see why that way would be better 2011-06-14T06:43:20 no need to write any debug into logs 2011-06-14T06:43:44 but this also depends on the programming language you are using 2011-06-14T06:43:54 i never use debugger 2011-06-14T06:44:05 i always built my own way to see object states. 2011-06-14T06:44:26 Zaphus: you need to have a proper interface inside your bot, it's a design issue 2011-06-14T06:44:51 c++ for me, just browsing to see what unit test things are out there, I think I'll give it a try. would love some hints on how to design for unit tests 2011-06-14T06:45:06 stocha: i recommend you to try to use debugger, it is really the quickest way to find the root cause of the bug 2011-06-14T06:45:12 in fact it's possible to simply extend the official comunication format, to make debugging (and even visual debugging ) possible. 2011-06-14T06:45:33 Zaphus: then you should check the cpptest framework 2011-06-14T06:45:38 sir_macelon: i really never had any problem finding the root of a bug in my programs with java. 2011-06-14T06:45:44 sorry cppunit 2011-06-14T06:46:12 i had sometime the trouble of not spoting the bug in the first place. as for my bit manipulation framework in it's current state 2011-06-14T06:46:20 i found the bugs while testing the C version :p 2011-06-14T06:46:21 stocha: it's not the matter of finding but how quickly you can do it 2011-06-14T06:46:52 i asked myself : why would my C version not work ???? i asked it for like 4 hours. Until i tryed the java one with same parameters ... it had the same behavior :p 2011-06-14T06:47:46 sir_macelon: i certainly find root of bugs so quick, that i don't even remember it, if it is in my own code. (it work up to a certain code size, which i hope the ant contest won't excess :p ) 2011-06-14T06:48:17 other's code is another matter. i was happy with debugger then. hopefully i didn't do that a lot yet. 2011-06-14T06:48:39 debugger are good for hacking through other code. 2011-06-14T06:48:46 Zaphus: for unit testing you need to separate the parsing of bot input logic from updating game state logic 2011-06-14T06:49:23 unfortunatelly most of the starter bots do not support that 2011-06-14T06:49:50 you can take a look at my java starter bot 2011-06-14T06:50:08 it is properly designed for unit testing 2011-06-14T06:50:45 reading and parsing code is seprated from other stuff with proper interfaces 2011-06-14T06:51:29 stocha: it depends how complicated is your code 2011-06-14T06:51:47 it's easy to find bugs in small apps 2011-06-14T06:52:25 but i can't imagine how you'd do it in a one consisting of hundreds or thousands lines of code 2011-06-14T06:52:25 or well architectured apps, with free access to meaningfull states :p 2011-06-14T06:53:04 without a debugger 2011-06-14T06:53:07 *** guyverthree has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T06:53:13 sir_macelon: you have to have a very modular architecture then. but to say the truth, more than 3000 line of code source, is already quite out of my liking :p 2011-06-14T06:53:17 when for example some multi-threading is involved 2011-06-14T06:53:27 i would need servere separation and modularity beside this point. 2011-06-14T06:53:31 *** antimatroid has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T06:53:46 is debugger helpfull for multithreading ? 2011-06-14T06:53:53 yet you need to have overview of the whole code 2011-06-14T06:54:05 my debug workflow is all about exploring the state. so it's not that different from using a debugger. 2011-06-14T06:54:10 yes, you can manually suspend threads 2011-06-14T06:54:41 and then go step by step after each line of code 2011-06-14T06:54:56 detecting any deadlocks 2011-06-14T06:54:58 i made an app once, with multithreaded recursive functions. And i built a UI to see the state, you could pause the process or launch them back etc. 2011-06-14T06:55:01 or synch problems 2011-06-14T06:55:25 well, i guess that a well used debugger is good. 2011-06-14T06:55:40 the problem with debugger, is that new out of school people tend to rely on it. 2011-06-14T06:55:44 glad you finally agreed :) 2011-06-14T06:56:01 what do you mean with that? 2011-06-14T06:56:06 *** Dlayne has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T06:56:06 like : here is the piece of finished code, but i spent four hours debugging it with the debugger. 2011-06-14T06:56:26 okay, what exaclty did you do with your debugger ? ho i don't know, but now everything work fine. 2011-06-14T06:56:35 that's not the good way of using a debugger ! 2011-06-14T06:56:49 *** Dlayne is now known as InsaneMalkavian 2011-06-14T06:57:25 *** Zaphus has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-06-14T06:57:26 well you need to know how to use it 2011-06-14T06:58:12 *** zaphus has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T07:01:11 good afternoon all :) 2011-06-14T07:02:51 sir_macelon: what i don't like with debugger, is that there is no remembering of the process of finding the bug. 2011-06-14T07:03:41 sir_macelon: you can just hack through code wildly. I you have to do that, then there is architectural problem that need to be adressed. 2011-06-14T07:04:18 I think the good architecture is the one that make the finding of bugs root the easiest. 2011-06-14T07:04:43 and also somewhate minimize the risk that there will be bug root in the first place. 2011-06-14T07:04:51 i do agree with that statement 2011-06-14T07:05:14 I agree 2011-06-14T07:05:26 are most of us studets or work in programming ??? 2011-06-14T07:05:44 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T07:05:50 i'm a almost no formation, 10 years on the field guy. 2011-06-14T07:06:53 I work mainly on windows mobile device and work lock down, we have to have good bug finding skills because we cann't attach a debug or pause and restart code 2011-06-14T07:07:10 how to i push code into my new repository, without using ssh keys ? 2011-06-14T07:07:32 what type of repo you using ??? 2011-06-14T07:07:48 ghit hub 2011-06-14T07:07:57 oh right i have no idea 2011-06-14T07:07:59 there was a concensus it is the way to go 2011-06-14T07:08:02 only really used SVN 2011-06-14T07:08:08 stocha: use http 2011-06-14T07:08:15 yeah i'm a bit behind the times 2011-06-14T07:08:19 what do i do, how do i do it ? 2011-06-14T07:08:33 why without ssh keys? it's fairly simple 2011-06-14T07:08:51 git clone your_repo_http_address 2011-06-14T07:09:02 i have macosx. unless you can help me with it, i won't trust you it is simple :p 2011-06-14T07:09:20 i need to install git then i guess :p 2011-06-14T07:09:24 stocha: it is, and I think I can help you :) 2011-06-14T07:09:31 stocha: yes, you'll need that anyway 2011-06-14T07:09:32 I develop of windows so i know you fustration with all the linux developer stuff 2011-06-14T07:09:48 olexs: okay so first i'll try to install git and see if it goes smooth :p 2011-06-14T07:10:11 basically, http://help.github.com/mac-set-up-git/ 2011-06-14T07:10:27 do people really use checksums ? 2011-06-14T07:10:37 all the ssh stuff is explained there as well 2011-06-14T07:10:38 i know i never checked them 2011-06-14T07:11:02 i check them with large downloads like system images, just to be on the safe side... 2011-06-14T07:11:17 olexs: okay thanks. i guess i have few excuse not to try now :p 2011-06-14T07:11:31 i don't even know how to check them :p 2011-06-14T07:13:27 mm, now when i type "git" in the console, i got some git stuff printing. i guess i'm done ? 2011-06-14T07:13:58 stocha: do the passkey stuff 2011-06-14T07:14:16 i didn't find it very well explained, but you can use anything as the pass key, like "the cat sat on the mat" 2011-06-14T07:14:23 it doesn't have to be something special 2011-06-14T07:15:56 Since there is already an SSH directory you’ll want to back the old one up and remove it: 2011-06-14T07:16:05 doesn't sound too good to me 0_o 2011-06-14T07:16:18 why do they want me to remove the key i use at work ? 2011-06-14T07:16:19 have you ever used ssh on your mac? 2011-06-14T07:16:36 if you already have a key, you don't need to generate a new one 2011-06-14T07:16:36 yeah. i use it at work. it's a nightmare. 2011-06-14T07:16:46 i think i put the keyx somewhere. and use some scripts. 2011-06-14T07:17:10 ah, yeah i didn't have to worry about past stuff there 2011-06-14T07:17:13 i'm think i probably don't use the keyx in ~/.ssh 2011-06-14T07:17:23 i think you can get away with pulling without that 2011-06-14T07:17:30 but you wont be able to push etc. 2011-06-14T07:17:39 so probably can remove it, and see what it does. But seems silly that you have to remove it 2011-06-14T07:18:06 back it up and remove it, if anything breaks you can always restore your backup and try something else for github... 2011-06-14T07:20:56 it seems there was no key in there. only the directories 2011-06-14T07:21:13 *** Cyndre_ has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2011-06-14T07:22:44 maybe i should rename it "stocha advanced starter java bot" :p so i then can publish the code. After all, that's what the hunter bot is isn't it ? 2011-06-14T07:24:53 here is my problem : how do i open the file in ~/.ssh with textedit ? 2011-06-14T07:25:20 textedit is not a valid command after all 2011-06-14T07:25:32 olexs: ? 2011-06-14T07:25:33 use textmate 2011-06-14T07:25:44 or nano 2011-06-14T07:25:49 it's not a valid command either 2011-06-14T07:25:59 you have a mac and don't have textmate? shame on you :) 2011-06-14T07:26:02 maybe i'll just put the key into a normal file, and textedit it from there 2011-06-14T07:26:16 what's the command for mac basic text editor... 2011-06-14T07:26:20 shame on me for having a mac on the first place if you want my opinion 2011-06-14T07:26:32 i want unbuntu. or even windows back ! 2011-06-14T07:27:01 ah 2011-06-14T07:27:06 "edit ~/.ssh" 2011-06-14T07:27:51 edit doesn't work. what i will do is cat key > somewhere i can see it 2011-06-14T07:27:53 or... wtf. 2011-06-14T07:28:18 "open -e ~/.ssh" ? :) 2011-06-14T07:28:29 how can it be so complicated... 2011-06-14T07:28:41 at least it works 2011-06-14T07:29:00 with my way. well it's mac. it's made for people that want to syncrhonize their iphone. Not for developpers 2011-06-14T07:29:30 I use a macbook for work in the university quite a lot, it's actually ok 2011-06-14T07:29:32 even the damn keyboard isn't right 2011-06-14T07:30:05 now i can't properly use neither a mac, nor a pc keyboard. 2011-06-14T07:30:34 in java it's ctrl+key and in other app, it's apple+ key. really 2011-06-14T07:31:22 so why do you have to use a mac if you dislike it so much? :) 2011-06-14T07:31:29 so i now have added the key. 2011-06-14T07:32:01 olexs: at the point, i didn't knew i would dislike it so much. i even had doubt at some point. i like the trackpad, and the fact you can make key shine in the dark. 2011-06-14T07:32:30 i like the magnetic stuff. like the power supply 2011-06-14T07:32:41 then i dislike the keyboard layout (paramount) and the system. 2011-06-14T07:33:02 to the point i won't own a mac beside this one. hopefully. 2011-06-14T07:33:07 you like the hardware, your problems seem to lie in software. why not install windows or ubuntu on it? problem solved, all the up sides remain :) 2011-06-14T07:33:13 then i dislike the firm strategy. 2011-06-14T07:33:25 i don't like the keyboard ! that's hardware. 2011-06-14T07:33:30 hm 2011-06-14T07:33:34 well i think it is. 2011-06-14T07:33:53 plus i don't like to spend hours installing stuff :p 2011-06-14T07:34:01 only to find out nothing really work in the end. 2011-06-14T07:34:08 I use standard IBM layout on it... only "mac thing" are the cmd+... combos instead of ctrl+..., but I got used to those 2011-06-14T07:34:41 maybe i should have done that. but know it's to late. i have both keyboard layout confused in my head :p 2011-06-14T07:34:59 (it's been like 6 month of mac keyboard already) 2011-06-14T07:35:46 anyone want to donate their (compiled) bot to me, for testing purposes ? it's hard testing against yourself all the time, I need some variety ! 2011-06-14T07:36:06 you'll need a mac binary, right? 2011-06-14T07:36:11 ahh 2011-06-14T07:36:23 no, not me, Windows 2011-06-14T07:36:37 sorry, confused by my irc client somewhat :) 2011-06-14T07:36:42 lol 2011-06-14T07:36:44 I can give you my current .exe 2011-06-14T07:37:16 yeah, I'd love to try it 2011-06-14T07:37:41 Congratulations, you now have Git and GitHub all set up! What do you want to do next? 2011-06-14T07:38:32 zaphus: http://stuff.olex.biz/leviathan.exe 2011-06-14T07:38:33 i want to eat, and go to bed :p thanks for asking. 2011-06-14T07:39:15 muahaha, compile date: 14.06.2011 13:37... *ahem* 2011-06-14T07:39:39 1337 :-) 2011-06-14T07:39:46 olexs: I've got it too, thanks. 2011-06-14T07:40:03 that's paris time 2011-06-14T07:40:35 no problem :) could I have some binaries, too? testing against example bots gets boring quickly 2011-06-14T07:40:55 why don't use stocha bot ? 2011-06-14T07:41:08 where can I get it? 2011-06-14T07:41:29 someone should make it available :p you can find it on the forum 2011-06-14T07:41:35 under the tcp server thread i think 2011-06-14T07:41:45 i gave it as a mean to test, until there is a tcp server 2011-06-14T07:42:03 wich i though would happen in a few days from my posting it. i maybe have been wrong. 2011-06-14T07:42:53 ahh it was on my server 2011-06-14T07:42:57 my server no longer exists 2011-06-14T07:42:57 I thought about putting one up. Basically, one would only need a wrapper to connect bot I/O streams to the python game engine, and a skill system of sorts 2011-06-14T07:43:05 so you'll have to ask to someone who already has it :p 2011-06-14T07:43:18 unless i put it on my newbrand github thing 2011-06-14T07:43:34 olexs: I propose my bot to people again and again but they always refuse because it's weak. You are the first one who didn't squeamish about it. :) 2011-06-14T07:43:47 stocha: where in the forums is it, is there a link you can give me ? 2011-06-14T07:44:02 UncleVasya: well, there is little chance it's worse than example bots, is there? :) 2011-06-14T07:44:11 on the forum was a link to my server. but the server is not there anymore 2011-06-14T07:44:18 oh, ok 2011-06-14T07:44:19 http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1362 2011-06-14T07:44:46 i still have it though. so if you find i place for me to upload it, then i can put it in there. 2011-06-14T07:45:09 i think i will just github it and be done with it though 2011-06-14T07:45:25 that should be simplest 2011-06-14T07:45:26 once i figure how the thing work that is. 2011-06-14T07:46:25 UncleVasya: so where can I get your binary, then? :) 2011-06-14T07:46:43 olexs: My bot seats in the 5th-11th places for a 5 days already. Usually it's 7th-9th place. 2011-06-14T07:47:07 olexs: Thats not your current leviathan bot, is it (the one you gave me a link to) ? 2011-06-14T07:47:30 zaphus: should be... unless I messed with the code again after putting it up, which I don't think I did 2011-06-14T07:48:25 olexs: ok, it's just not doing well against three copies of my bot - but that isn't really a fair fight :-) then again, my latest version is getting whipped by my older ones too... 2011-06-14T07:49:03 has the attack radius been changed to 9 already? that should break some pre-defined logic 2011-06-14T07:49:21 yes, it's at 9 on the beta server, and on my home tests 2011-06-14T07:49:44 okay, in that case I should rewrite my "move book". you'll get the updated binary when I'm done if you want :) 2011-06-14T07:50:11 olexs: http://www.filefactory.com/file/ccded9b/n/UncleVasya_13.7z 2011-06-14T07:51:07 sure, would love it ! 2011-06-14T07:51:27 and I really need to get my test framework going 2011-06-14T07:52:06 UncleVasya: thank you. 2011-06-14T07:54:01 Yeah I was thinking of doing some perl scripts which would run a bunch of gaem and then give me some stats so i can see if a change has improved or destroyed my bot 2011-06-14T07:54:05 olexs: Do not hurry. If it will be useful than you'll thank me. 2011-06-14T07:54:25 guyverthree: Are you under Windows? 2011-06-14T07:57:20 hopefull you will find a jar of the bot in there https://github.com/stocha/Stocha_google_contest_antwars_Sample_Engine- 2011-06-14T07:57:29 clicking the download button 2011-06-14T07:57:33 let me know how it goes. 2011-06-14T07:58:06 this time i allow people uncompiling the code. because some already did. 2011-06-14T07:58:26 download doesnt work for me, maybe we have to wait a little while ? 2011-06-14T07:58:38 what does it do ? 2011-06-14T07:58:58 Not Found: Bad archive command for stocha/Stocha_google_contest_antwars_Sample_Engine-/master 2011-06-14T07:59:06 yeah, that :-) 2011-06-14T07:59:08 if someone can explain me what's wrong with the git thing ? 2011-06-14T07:59:28 maybe it doesn like my projects code name ? 2011-06-14T07:59:36 *** locutus2 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2011-06-14T07:59:43 that minus at the end feels dodgy, but there's nothing technically wrong with that 2011-06-14T07:59:44 *** locutus2 has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T08:00:06 i don't remember adding a minus by the way 2011-06-14T08:01:05 I think I've created the first bot that times out because it's thinking too hard, it just leaves the other bot to itself and keeps growing, eventually having too many ants to process within the time limit I guess 2011-06-14T08:01:52 how does git know where to send the commit command by the way ?? 2011-06-14T08:03:03 zaphus: happened to me already, too. some optimization helped, now it doesn't timeout on beta server even with a few thousand ants 2011-06-14T08:03:04 it commits locally, doesn't it? 2011-06-14T08:03:22 maybe 2011-06-14T08:03:29 git commit locall 2011-06-14T08:03:31 y 2011-06-14T08:03:35 why can i see the commit on github then 2011-06-14T08:03:35 you need to push then 2011-06-14T08:04:34 ah, I see why it would time out... some dumb-ish code that I'm not really utilizing anyway, might do an update just to get around that 2011-06-14T08:04:44 you have to do something like that 2011-06-14T08:04:52 $ git push origin master 2011-06-14T08:04:57 will have to write a better version of that code for later though 2011-06-14T08:05:22 yeah i didn't do it, so let me try and see if it solve the problem :p 2011-06-14T08:06:52 https://github.com/stocha/antwars_Sample_Engine 2011-06-14T08:07:02 okay let's try to download from there then :p 2011-06-14T08:07:23 it may work this time :p 2011-06-14T08:07:26 UncleVasya: I am under windows yes 2011-06-14T08:07:32 *** Kingpin13 has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T08:07:59 now i have to publish my debugging framework :p 2011-06-14T08:08:09 well, my start of a debugging framework rather 2011-06-14T08:08:35 anyone know how to get that red name at the begining of the a post on here ???? 2011-06-14T08:09:06 i don't know if i am doing it right ? 2011-06-14T08:09:37 guyverthree type their name as the first word in the sentence 2011-06-14T08:09:47 guyverthree: type their name as the first word in the sentence and then a colon 2011-06-14T08:09:54 thanks 2011-06-14T08:10:04 zaphus something like this yes 2011-06-14T08:10:06 :) 2011-06-14T08:10:27 stocha: do I need to rename the jar to something ? not sure how to launch it 2011-06-14T08:10:42 guyverthree: yes, only the target person sees you as red though 2011-06-14T08:10:43 I don't really know what kind of statistic you want but this app is for multigames testing and shows some statistic info: http://www.filefactory.com/file/ccdd2e6/n/AntsTesting_0.3_RC_3_Zaphus.7z 2011-06-14T08:10:50 you go java -jar nameofthe.jar 2011-06-14T08:10:58 in the standard engine 2011-06-14T08:11:06 it's a bot 2011-06-14T08:11:15 so you put that in the bot loader script 2011-06-14T08:11:52 ah, got it, had a typo 2011-06-14T08:12:23 zaphus: I fixed maps info in the form caption, added --viewradius, --spawnradius and --attackradius options. 2011-06-14T08:12:31 unclevasya: thanks i don't know, was thinking ant at turn 50 turn 100 2011-06-14T08:12:38 game won, lost 2011-06-14T08:12:45 any timeout game highlighted 2011-06-14T08:13:23 guyverthree: won/lost timeouted/crashed/survived/eliminated - you can find that info there. 2011-06-14T08:13:27 so you can run a bot over all the maps and find problems really. rather than runing game by game hoping to find something 2011-06-14T08:13:46 uncleVasya thanks again 2011-06-14T08:14:14 guyverthree: " ant at turn 50 turn 100" - I don't understant what you mean here. 2011-06-14T08:17:20 uncleVasya: numbers of ants at turn 50, turn 100, turn 200 2011-06-14T08:17:47 unclevasya so you could see maps that you found difficult to get started on 2011-06-14T08:17:49 guyverthree: You can see it in the replay for each game. 2011-06-14T08:19:41 guyverthree: If you see on the table bad result (small scores or even eliminated/timeouted), just launch replay for this game. 2011-06-14T08:20:56 unclevasya that's cool 2011-06-14T08:21:09 i take it zaphus made it 2011-06-14T08:21:49 is the source avaible because multithreading it would be cool :) 2011-06-14T08:22:07 guyverthree: Delphi 2010 2011-06-14T08:22:24 it's in delphi wicked 2011-06-14T08:22:25 guyverthree: I didnt make it, UncleVasya was just getting me to test that version - he's the genius behind it :-) 2011-06-14T08:23:00 So you can blame me for all bugs in it :) 2011-06-14T08:23:34 blame is not something i like to give out 2011-06-14T08:24:18 sir_macelon: okay i published my latest framework under the form of a jar. 2011-06-14T08:24:24 guyverthree: let's call it bugreports, suggestions and feedbacks :) 2011-06-14T08:25:05 that i can do :) 2011-06-14T08:26:04 https://github.com/stocha/antwars_Sample_Engine/tree/master/reference all the stuff is there. 2011-06-14T08:26:43 the engine jar is executable (if you double click on it, or java -jar it you should see some ant fighting on a random asymetric map) 2011-06-14T08:27:12 i messed up the renaming so the bot directory i now present twice. i don't know how to delete the old one :p 2011-06-14T08:27:49 UncleVasya: Do you have a 32-bot limit ? I have 34 and 2 are not showing :-) 2011-06-14T08:29:10 zaphus: Do they have a "Bot" in their names? 2011-06-14T08:29:12 the .java are inside the jar as well as the .class 2011-06-14T08:29:19 nope 2011-06-14T08:30:24 I use masks to skip a trash: *Bot*.exe , *Bot*.py , *Bot*.jar 2011-06-14T08:30:53 oh, ok 2011-06-14T08:31:35 by chance my bots were all 'Zaphbot" - but the new ones I just grabbed I called "Stocha" and "UncleVasya" etc 2011-06-14T08:34:07 *** berak has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T08:34:46 zaphus: Is my bot doing well against others in your local testing? 2011-06-14T08:34:52 Hmm - the UncleVasya bot crashed every single time, but all the others worked... I think your antstesting hates your own bot ! 2011-06-14T08:35:23 hmm "Cannot exec ocamlrun" 2011-06-14T08:37:41 UncleVasya: I didn't know that OCaml is neededl to launch the binary. I'll ask Smiley about it when he comes. 2011-06-14T08:38:35 ok, for the testing tool, where do I put the bots so it can see them? there's no path setting or anything 2011-06-14T08:40:49 olexs: anywhere in the folder that you selected. 2011-06-14T08:41:07 so anywhere near the playgame.py? 2011-06-14T08:41:21 Just be sure your bot has a "Bot" in it's name. 2011-06-14T08:41:33 yes, I saw that one :) 2011-06-14T08:41:40 yep. 2011-06-14T08:41:49 Subdirectories are ok too. 2011-06-14T08:42:52 okay, now it works. thanks, that is pretty much what I was building :) 2011-06-14T08:42:59 UncleVasya: I feel like the "scores" total should really be an average, especially since some bots play in more games than others (after the first 4) 2011-06-14T08:45:09 *** stocha has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-06-14T08:45:12 interesting, if I do 100 turn games then Stocha wins pretty much every one of them... but at 1000 turns it's a different story (most of the time). It's a very efficient food hunter, impressive! and thats now going to be the baseline for any good bot since if you release the source 2011-06-14T08:46:17 *** boegel has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T08:46:58 UncleVasya: Suggestion "map repeats" - which lets you run all the maps multiple times. e.g. there are a small number of 4 maps, so I would like to repeat them several times (with different seeds I guess, so they play differently) 2011-06-14T08:46:59 zaphus: it's a delicate deal so I think we need to hear more thoughts about it. olexs: What do you think about Scores statistic: total or average? 2011-06-14T08:47:21 remember that not all bots play the same number of games 2011-06-14T08:47:44 UncleVasya: I need some more test runs to answer that properly, but I'm inclined towards average 2011-06-14T08:48:31 UncleVasya: how about "minimum bots" ? so if I choose 8 bots I can tell it to only run maps of 8, I dont care about the 4's. that or you need to do all permutations of players on the 4 maps to get all combinations 2011-06-14T08:49:11 *** locutus2 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-06-14T08:49:12 zaphus: already done. 2011-06-14T08:49:53 *** delt0r_ has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) 2011-06-14T08:50:03 I added check box "only maps with this number of bots'. Is this what you are talking about? 2011-06-14T08:50:10 it's working well for me right now. would probably like a column telling me how long each match took :-) 1000 turns takes a while 2011-06-14T08:50:35 UncleVasya: Yes, that would do it. behaviour with that unchecked is odd, since it just chooses the first in your list and some miss out 2011-06-14T08:50:45 *** delt0r_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T08:52:49 zaphus: I thought about that too, but my app window is already big enough. I don't know what people here think about form with. 2011-06-14T08:53:26 yeah, probably right... can you do tooltips (hover over the map name, it tells you how long it took to run?) 2011-06-14T08:53:32 But I agree that column with a number of turns is would be great. 2011-06-14T08:54:01 I meant the physical time :-) but number of turns is good too :-) 2011-06-14T08:55:05 i cann't seem to get it work for me 2011-06-14T08:55:25 the testing tool is brilliant, thanks a lot. 2011-06-14T08:56:03 zaphus: I wrote "physical time" as a talk-with-you-later topic. 2011-06-14T08:56:18 guyverthree: I think you have an old environment. 2011-06-14T08:56:33 guyverthree: Yesterday tools.zip was updated. 2011-06-14T08:56:37 unclevasya old enviroment ??? 2011-06-14T08:56:49 oh right 2011-06-14T08:57:16 guyverthree: http://aichallengebeta.hypertriangle.com/tools.zip 2011-06-14T08:57:19 i'll get it and then run some tests :) 2011-06-14T08:57:58 olexs: your welcome. 2011-06-14T08:59:43 excellent 2011-06-14T08:59:46 it's amazing 2011-06-14T09:00:10 Hey guys, can you check what happens if you press stop on the antstesting tool ? does it leave some bots running (use task manager to check) - I think it does for me 2011-06-14T09:01:57 zaphus: nope, works for me 2011-06-14T09:02:13 wait 2011-06-14T09:02:19 olexs: hmm, just checked it myself and there were processes left running 2011-06-14T09:02:21 interesting 2011-06-14T09:02:33 they were left running for a few more seconds, then dies 2011-06-14T09:02:35 *died 2011-06-14T09:02:42 oh, I didnt wait :-) 2011-06-14T09:03:00 zaphus: Stop button doesn't stops current game. 2011-06-14T09:03:10 Ah, that would explain it 2011-06-14T09:03:13 makes sense 2011-06-14T09:03:20 *"doesn't stop"? 2011-06-14T09:03:41 AntsTesting.exe uses 100% cpu, I doubt it needs to - it could be sleeping while the game is running 2011-06-14T09:04:41 zaphus: yeah, it was a problem that I solved in the wrong way. 2011-06-14T09:05:13 right guys my lunch is over but thanks for the testing enviroment it's amamzing 2011-06-14T09:05:16 *** guyverthree has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-06-14T09:06:10 hmph, stocha's bot is quite good at 200 turns per game 2011-06-14T09:06:13 It's running endless loop of checking if game already ended. I think I can replace it with checking every 5 seconds. 2011-06-14T09:07:08 UncleVasya: even once a second would be thousands of times less processing 2011-06-14T09:08:14 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T09:08:14 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2011-06-14T09:10:10 mmm nap in a can 2011-06-14T09:11:51 *** Eruonen has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-06-14T09:12:09 *** Eruonen has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T09:13:28 *** Eruonen has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-06-14T09:13:45 *** Eruonen has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T09:16:03 *** Eruonen has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-06-14T09:16:32 *** Eruonen has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T09:18:26 *** Eruonen has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-06-14T09:18:32 *** locutus2 has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T09:18:53 *** Eruonen has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T09:20:42 Ouch - I think sir_macelon has a pretty good "hunt them down" algorithm going ! watch how he wipes me out: http://aichallengebeta.hypertriangle.com/visualizer.php?game=23910&user=78 2011-06-14T09:20:59 *** Eruonen has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-06-14T09:21:10 *** smiley1983 has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T09:21:20 *** Eruonen has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T09:22:59 *** Eruonen has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T09:23:24 berak: I think you asked about the generator for the maps I was posting. You might have seen the link I posted already, but if not, the in-development source resides here: https://github.com/smiley1983/rotsym_mapgen 2011-06-14T09:24:01 didn't see that, so thanks for it now! 2011-06-14T09:24:15 no worries :) 2011-06-14T09:24:28 smiley1983: why no python? 2011-06-14T09:24:31 it's really really simple 2011-06-14T09:24:36 i learnt python doing map gens 2011-06-14T09:24:53 i wish this exam would do itself :( 2011-06-14T09:26:10 I've written stuff in Python so I guess I could... but I don't like it as much. 2011-06-14T09:26:27 yeah i hate it 2011-06-14T09:26:33 it's gross 2011-06-14T09:26:55 also, it's just generating files based on some inputs, so I figured the language shouldn't matter... 2011-06-14T09:27:08 and I'm very comfortable with thinking in OCaml 2011-06-14T09:27:18 they want the codebase stuff to all be python 2011-06-14T09:27:29 which is reasonable i guess, it would be nice that it's all one language 2011-06-14T09:27:39 i would love to be able to just do stuff in c++ though 2011-06-14T09:27:51 some of the tasks were not conceptually easy for me, so it was nice to work it out in a language which makes sense to me 2011-06-14T09:28:07 yeah, i did map gens in c++ first 2011-06-14T09:28:24 though the rotation and tiling logic is small - about 100 lines, and could be easily ported 2011-06-14T09:28:33 ol := !ol @ !shortlist // loooks, like ml is fun! 2011-06-14T09:28:40 sigh and amstan laughed at me prototyping in c++ :P 2011-06-14T09:28:56 the large pile of functions I wrote for maze and cavern generation is about 500 lines, though 2011-06-14T09:29:28 berak: yes, it lets you do all sorts of neat things in brief syntax without being slow 2011-06-14T09:29:50 assuming you don't ask it to do things which are inherently slow :) 2011-06-14T09:31:03 i'm curious about food collection now 2011-06-14T09:31:40 a1k0n seemed to think it might be possible to collect food with updating availability information with a single pass of the map with some cleaning up every time one collects something 2011-06-14T09:32:37 if it's possible, I would like to know how :) 2011-06-14T09:34:32 obviously subsequent bfs searches can be building upon one initial search from multiple searches, but I don't see how you can avoid performing those subsequent updates 2011-06-14T09:34:57 search from multiple sources, sorry 2011-06-14T09:35:25 problem with typing long messages into a single line 2011-06-14T09:35:43 smiley1983: Do another people need something to run compiled to the binary program in ocaml? Some of them get "Cannot exec ocamlrun" error while trying to launch it. 2011-06-14T09:36:06 they are possibly compiling bytecode? 2011-06-14T09:36:13 use ocamlopt, not ocamlc 2011-06-14T09:36:26 or ocamlbuild, I think that uses ocamlopt by default 2011-06-14T09:36:46 use a multi-seed bfs with all visible food as seeds, update ants as unavailable and food as taken on a found match, stop when all food or all ants are done 2011-06-14T09:36:47 By default, ocaml binaries are statically linked, with some special exceptions 2011-06-14T09:37:24 smiley1983: yeah i agree 2011-06-14T09:37:35 once exams are over i'm going to write two slightly different bots 2011-06-14T09:37:47 olexs: recording all of that information and then looking it up? 2011-06-14T09:37:52 one using my normal bfs food collection, then another using my new a* with multiple targets, see which one is faster 2011-06-14T09:38:21 I think it might be able to determine which one to apply in some situations with heuristics :) 2011-06-14T09:38:31 yep 2011-06-14T09:38:43 smiley1983: you have all visible food and available ants info as input on a turn, the "availability" can be tracked as boolean map 2011-06-14T09:38:47 but first i need to work out what the differences are like for different states 2011-06-14T09:39:14 olexs: my food collection is more complicated than that 2011-06-14T09:39:45 i have an availibility map for locations, ants start as available at 0, then when i collect food, that food location becomes available at some time, along with the adjacent target square of my sourced nat 2011-06-14T09:39:46 ant* 2011-06-14T09:39:57 okay, but for the bfs - is it recording the distance of every source to every target? 2011-06-14T09:39:57 aichallenge: aerique epsilon * r7bdbcc0 / ants/test_bot.sh : Replace --seed with --engine_seed and --player_seed. - http://bit.ly/iEnKND 2011-06-14T09:40:01 then i need to start searching from all non-collected foor items again with the new availability information 2011-06-14T09:40:18 smiley1983: was that to me? 2011-06-14T09:40:25 no sorry, to olexs 2011-06-14T09:40:39 bfs search doesn't need to know the distance to a target, it just searches out until it finds a target 2011-06-14T09:41:11 _a_ target - but sometimes the first target you find is not the one you want 2011-06-14T09:41:11 smiley: not directly. it is tracking the source for every expanded node; that way when an ant is found, the source is marked as taken 2011-06-14T09:41:38 ah, you mark it during the search? 2011-06-14T09:41:51 smiley1983: Also I have a question about OCaml itself. I want to do following in my bot 1. Save a copy of my current game state (for example, under the name state_backup) 2. Make processing of current state changing it a lot. 3. discard changes with current game state restoring it from the backup_state. 2011-06-14T09:41:57 if you start at all food sources at once, the first match you find is the shortest ant-food distance, so you want it 2011-06-14T09:42:28 yes, I mark availability and send ants directly during the search 2011-06-14T09:42:57 of course, that does not take into account things as walking into enemy ants and so, that needs to be cheched as well, but that's a different story 2011-06-14T09:43:13 yes, that makes sense :) 2011-06-14T09:44:01 UncleVasya: am I right in thinking you want to be able to process this game state as a text file? 2011-06-14T09:44:03 mind you, my bot doesn't yet use that, I need to rewrite some code to make it work - at the moment it's way simpler... 2011-06-14T09:44:34 smiley1983: no. 2011-06-14T09:45:11 I'll try ti explain with example. 2011-06-14T09:45:15 *to 2011-06-14T09:45:44 okay... one option is to use the input format, write some simple matching output functions, and use text files 2011-06-14T09:46:12 I think there is some sort of state-saving library as well, let me go and look... 2011-06-14T09:47:32 Yes, the standard set of modules includes Marshal, which can save the whole game state and load it automagically 2011-06-14T09:48:58 Marshal.to_channel ochan state extern_flags 2011-06-14T09:49:02 In your starter package all info about game stores in the object whith name state. It contains map, lists of food and ants and methods to deal with it. 2011-06-14T09:50:15 I need make some changes (add or remove ants from the lists, change map cells, etc). 2011-06-14T09:50:35 yes, I'm just reading about that, I'm not sure if it can marshal objects, which is a deficiency 2011-06-14T09:51:14 And then I want to easily discard all these changes. 2011-06-14T09:51:31 However, if you change the Ant object to a record and write some functions to deal with that record to replace its methods, then you can marshal gstate 2011-06-14T09:51:46 I can pass my game state an input file stream containing a game state and it will take input from it :) 2011-06-14T09:51:51 c++ starter bot ftw 2011-06-14T09:52:06 just is an ifstream if, and if >> state; 2011-06-14T09:52:15 ifs*, if is a bad name :P 2011-06-14T09:52:16 yes, this could too, which is why I'm thinking text files are the way to go 2011-06-14T09:52:59 if you write some output functions which match the input format, you can save and load game states without any other changes in the souce 2011-06-14T09:53:14 *source 2011-06-14T09:53:48 just write everything you read to an output stream before processing :P 2011-06-14T09:54:06 that's a good point :) 2011-06-14T09:54:12 much easier :) 2011-06-14T09:54:30 smiley1983: Is dealing with files allowed on the server? 2011-06-14T09:54:42 i'd be tempted to write the output function still :P 2011-06-14T09:54:56 UncleVasya: you can read from files but not write 2011-06-14T09:54:57 I think you can read from existing data files, but cannot write anything to them 2011-06-14T09:55:22 the ranking system could deal with bots of varying level 2011-06-14T09:55:26 for one thing 2011-06-14T09:55:31 couldn't* 2011-06-14T09:55:31 :P 2011-06-14T09:55:58 Actually, when I tried to get my letterbot to read from a font file, it wouldn't do it, even in local testing. 2011-06-14T09:56:11 So the only way to go is to change atns to the record? 2011-06-14T09:56:28 no, there's a much easier way 2011-06-14T09:56:40 log the input it sends you for the turn 2011-06-14T09:57:07 you are welcome to read from files locally for training your bot of course 2011-06-14T09:57:13 Read it again, and you have the correct state 2011-06-14T09:57:19 but any parameters for that kind of thing need to be trained locally 2011-06-14T09:57:47 log? But I can not write into the files... 2011-06-14T09:57:55 locally 2011-06-14T09:57:57 you can locally 2011-06-14T09:58:05 just not on the server 2011-06-14T09:58:10 you should be able to, let me test... 2011-06-14T09:58:22 you can train against other bots on tcp with your local bot too 2011-06-14T09:58:28 so you aren't restricted to training on your own bots 2011-06-14T09:58:49 I think I failed to explain what I really need :( 2011-06-14T09:59:02 what do you want to do? 2011-06-14T10:00:36 antimatroid: you can't help here. it is an OCaml specific question.I 2011-06-14T10:01:26 okay, if you describe it again I'll try to understand :) 2011-06-14T10:03:20 I'll try to do it next time I'll meet you. I need a time to find words. 2011-06-14T10:03:46 Okay, just wait, I've reread the above, I think I might understand... 2011-06-14T10:03:50 *** olexs has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-06-14T10:03:53 let me ask a few questions to see... 2011-06-14T10:04:29 are you asking how to make the changes you mentioned above to the data structures? Adding ants and so on? 2011-06-14T10:04:35 And then how to discard them? 2011-06-14T10:04:41 Go ahead. 2011-06-14T10:04:48 Yes. 2011-06-14T10:04:58 Right, sorry, I misunderstood completely 2011-06-14T10:05:20 I thought you were asking how to do processing of the game states separate from the actual game, using files 2011-06-14T10:05:24 let me try to answer: 2011-06-14T10:05:24 map array is mutable so changes are affecting it even outside of let... in.. block 2011-06-14T10:05:31 yes 2011-06-14T10:05:37 you need to copy the map 2011-06-14T10:05:51 Yes. 2011-06-14T10:05:54 specifically, you need to copy both dimensions of the map 2011-06-14T10:06:18 I need to make a loop? 2011-06-14T10:06:19 let me find an example in the code... 2011-06-14T10:06:28 no, there is a more elegant way 2011-06-14T10:07:16 oh, there isn't an example in the starter, let me paste it somewhere 2011-06-14T10:08:41 let copy_matrix m = Array.map (Array.map (fun x -> x)) m;; 2011-06-14T10:09:22 I can explain if it doesn't make sense :) 2011-06-14T10:09:56 that's for the map 2011-06-14T10:10:02 it won't copy the whole state 2011-06-14T10:11:01 do you know about the {state with map = new_map} syntax? 2011-06-14T10:11:30 *** olexs has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T10:11:58 you can make a new tgame_state with new copies of the mutable elements 2011-06-14T10:12:35 I think that includes all the lists and the array, unfortunately 2011-06-14T10:15:11 *** UncleVasya has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-06-14T10:15:52 *** UncleVasya has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T10:16:11 I'm just testing now whether you need to copy the lists 2011-06-14T10:17:18 just wait, no, you don't have to copy the lists, they're immutable :) 2011-06-14T10:17:32 *** nux67 has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T10:17:54 it's just a special property of arrays that they're mutable internally, lists are only mutable if you make them mutable lists or list refereces :) 2011-06-14T10:18:31 My attempts to make a copy of array returned only a references to the same array with another name. But the independent copy is the thing I really needed. Thank you! 2011-06-14T10:18:41 So you can get a copy of the game state with: 2011-06-14T10:19:12 let new_state = {state with tmap = new_tmap} in ... 2011-06-14T10:19:23 *** zaphus has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-06-14T10:20:26 Yes, Array.map is the function for that - it can do much, much more than that though... you saw (fun x -> x) :) 2011-06-14T10:21:02 aichallenge: aerique epsilon * rffdf138 / (2 files): Add statements to muffle warnings on stderr. - http://bit.ly/mtds7s 2011-06-14T10:21:54 *** nux67 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-06-14T10:26:23 *** onensora has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T10:27:12 *** onensora is now known as Eruonen 2011-06-14T10:28:19 *** Eruonen is now known as onensora 2011-06-14T10:29:04 *** onensora has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-06-14T10:30:13 *** onensora has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T10:37:19 *** onensora has quit IRC () 2011-06-14T10:37:44 *** onensora has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T10:40:04 *** onensora has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T10:40:38 *** sir_macelon has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-06-14T10:44:57 smiley1983: I must to add some key to the command for compiling bot to make it work on the different computers? 2011-06-14T10:47:54 *** onensora has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T10:47:56 *** mleise has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T10:47:57 *** onensora has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-06-14T10:48:55 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T10:49:47 try ocamlbuild -lib unix 2011-06-14T10:50:08 is this after adding Unix.gettimeofday () ? 2011-06-14T10:51:03 *** amstan has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2011-06-14T10:51:08 and also, which OS? 2011-06-14T10:51:39 *** locutus2 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2011-06-14T10:52:45 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T10:52:45 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2011-06-14T10:53:02 *** aerique has quit IRC (Quit: ...) 2011-06-14T10:57:49 smiley1983: Windows. I think it happened after adding Random and List. 2011-06-14T10:59:27 *** onensora has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T11:01:22 um, that's strange... are you building with ocamlbuild or invoking the compiler directly? 2011-06-14T11:02:14 also, do you have cygwin? not that it should matter for this 2011-06-14T11:04:28 smiley1983: no cygwin. 2011-06-14T11:04:46 I compile this way: 2011-06-14T11:04:52 ocamlc -c Ants.ml 2011-06-14T11:04:52 ocamlc -c MyBot.ml 2011-06-14T11:04:52 ocamlc -o MyBot.exe Ants.cmo MyBot.cmo 2011-06-14T11:05:07 *** onensora has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T11:05:30 can you pastebin the error message? 2011-06-14T11:06:53 I have no errors, but another people has: "Cannot exec ocamlrun" 2011-06-14T11:07:47 yes, change ocamlc to ocamlopt 2011-06-14T11:07:57 then it will give you a proper native code binary 2011-06-14T11:08:16 much faster, too - ocamlc generates un-optimized bytecode like Python :) 2011-06-14T11:08:46 not quite as inefficient as Python's, though, because you can do proper iteration without generating lists of numbers :) 2011-06-14T11:10:09 ocamlopt with the same keys? -c -c -o? 2011-06-14T11:10:13 yes 2011-06-14T11:10:23 many errors 2011-06-14T11:10:37 pastebin? 2011-06-14T11:10:41 begins with something about assembler 2011-06-14T11:12:37 by the way, you were quite clear before about your question, it was my mistake in misunderstanding it - so don't think your English is bad 2011-06-14T11:12:55 it's possible it needs access to an assembler and doesn't have it? reading now... 2011-06-14T11:13:08 it is beginning in Russian. 2011-06-14T11:13:24 But yes, something about assembler. 2011-06-14T11:14:29 *** locutus2 has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T11:15:18 okay, it looks like you need binutils installed in order to run ocamlopt 2011-06-14T11:15:40 * My first errors are in Russian. 2011-06-14T11:15:40 that may or may not require Cygwin, but you could try without 2011-06-14T11:15:52 *** sigh has quit IRC (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2011-06-14T11:16:19 the other option is to get your friend to install ocaml, and then ocamlrun the bytecode 2011-06-14T11:17:14 He doesn't need OCaml. And I think it is better to me to solve problem in the right way. 2011-06-14T11:18:15 here is binutils: http://bit.ly/ljoQZv 2011-06-14T11:18:30 I'm looking for OCaml binutils now in Google. 2011-06-14T11:18:36 oh, thaks :) 2011-06-14T11:18:59 I don't know how much of MinGW you need, but you definitely need GNU-Binutils 2011-06-14T11:19:04 hopefully nothing else 2011-06-14T11:19:22 however, there's a possibility that you may actually need Cygwin 2011-06-14T11:24:04 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Quit: bhasker) 2011-06-14T11:24:30 UncleVasya: I don't actually know how to install any of that stuff, I'm not sure if I actually gave you the best link; that's the source for the Windows version of what you need, though 2011-06-14T11:25:35 I'll chek it when I'll be able. 2011-06-14T11:25:42 *check 2011-06-14T11:26:22 wee, just played some successful games on a hacked tcpserver.py ;) ( local only ;( ) 2011-06-14T11:27:16 berak: hacked means your bot wins every game? :) 2011-06-14T11:27:32 *** Ice_Harley has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-06-14T11:27:36 that sounds promising... is it moving in the direction of being not local-only? 2011-06-14T11:27:37 no, it means, there might be some tcp server 2011-06-14T11:29:06 I think many people will be happy if that happens :) 2011-06-14T11:29:17 very happy 2011-06-14T11:29:28 ideally we want the tcp "site" to be part of hte official site 2011-06-14T11:29:32 and just host it there 2011-06-14T11:29:43 *** boegel has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) 2011-06-14T11:29:43 berak: feel free to step up and do that 2011-06-14T11:29:52 stuff gets done around here when people just do something :P 2011-06-14T11:29:57 still needs some work, i can play games & save them, but got no web-fronted yet 2011-06-14T11:30:18 and mcleopolds frontend was pretty 2011-06-14T11:30:44 mcleopolds tcp code is on his github 2011-06-14T11:30:56 antimatroid: Are zeta's games will be almost TCP-based? 2011-06-14T11:30:59 ;) i know... 2011-06-14T11:31:00 *** locutus2 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2011-06-14T11:31:22 UncleVasya: not sure, it would be ideal for server resources, but complicated for long term rankings etc. 2011-06-14T11:32:35 personally I don't mind the idea of no long term rankings for old games and just having tcp servers running 2011-06-14T11:32:57 possibly with some bots on the main server that can be paired up in games if there is a long enough wait for external bots 2011-06-14T11:33:07 with at least one external bot requesting a game of course 2011-06-14T11:33:11 they could run both, with the server-side games being "fairer" but with results coming through more slowly 2011-06-14T11:33:23 both tcp and server-only, that is 2011-06-14T11:33:25 most important: it needs a server. 2011-06-14T11:33:58 if we had a server, i'd be inclined to cap the number of games a bot will be given 2011-06-14T11:34:01 so, could you all look under your bed ? 2011-06-14T11:34:14 it can still be paired for games for a bot needing more games, but after a certain point the server stops giving games to bots 2011-06-14T11:34:26 so we aren't constantly churning through games for all the old games 2011-06-14T11:34:41 *** carlop has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101027124959]) 2011-06-14T11:35:33 atm i'm pretty sure the matching algorithm does something like that, finds the bot with the least number of games then picks an opponent for it 2011-06-14T11:36:04 and the picking of an opponent isn't just random obviously, depends on the skill level of the bot 2011-06-14T11:37:08 *** locutus2 has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T11:37:28 actually, i think there's some big problems with that 2011-06-14T11:37:48 after a while it should be something like the bot with the longest average time between games 2011-06-14T11:37:50 @seen janzert 2011-06-14T11:37:50 amstan: janzert was last seen in #aichallenge 12 hours, 22 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: ok, empathy is a really bad irc client 2011-06-14T11:37:58 amstan: he's out of town for 2 days 2011-06-14T11:38:09 ok 2011-06-14T11:38:20 having said that, he came online after that 2011-06-14T11:38:26 and said the above 2011-06-14T11:38:40 antimatroid: yes, that's why i was wondering 2011-06-14T11:53:16 amstan: rules question: can I include GPL library code with my bot if I release my source after the contest, or does it have to be LGPL (or is library code not allowed)? 2011-06-14T11:54:22 smiley1983: well.. the rule with gpl is that if you statically link it in your code, and someone gets the binary, the person who has the binary must also get the source 2011-06-14T11:54:44 so.. your code should be gpl, but... 2011-06-14T11:54:57 you only have to provide the source to the ppl getting the binary 2011-06-14T11:55:06 and that's only us(the contest organizers) 2011-06-14T11:55:17 so if my code is gpl, that seems okay :) 2011-06-14T11:56:02 Thankyou for pointing out the part about mine needing to be GPL as well, though, I need to relicense my mapgen from bsd to gpl 2011-06-14T11:57:14 smiley1983: depends on how you link the library 2011-06-14T11:57:52 from what i know, if you're statically linking it the license gets inhereted, for dynamic linking(so, dll) it doesn't 2011-06-14T11:59:51 the original library is actually lgpl, but in order to remove a component I believe it's necessary to change it to gpl, so in order to avoid redistributing the whole of mathlib in order to use one tiny part, I've done the license swap 2011-06-14T11:59:56 *** locutus2 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2011-06-14T11:59:56 it is statically linked, though 2011-06-14T12:00:21 so technically, in order to be in strict obedience, my code should be the same 2011-06-14T12:00:41 ugh... we also don't really care 2011-06-14T12:00:50 yes, nor do I :) 2011-06-14T12:00:59 I just wanted to make sure it wasn't against the rules 2011-06-14T12:01:14 the rules don't really specify anything about code 2011-06-14T12:05:06 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T12:06:43 *** mceier has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T12:09:21 *** sigh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-06-14T12:14:07 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T12:15:09 *** sigh has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-06-14T12:24:23 *** amstan has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2011-06-14T12:27:34 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T12:33:56 *** carlop has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T12:34:44 *** locutus2 has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T12:37:08 *** _0x47 <_0x47!~slash@p5B12FA2B.dip.t-dialin.net> has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T12:40:39 *** Naktibalda has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027]) 2011-06-14T12:41:16 *** locutus2 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2011-06-14T12:50:16 *** guyverthree has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T12:51:20 alrighty everyone 2011-06-14T12:51:43 *** guyverthree has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-06-14T12:53:58 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T12:53:58 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2011-06-14T13:00:28 *** amstan has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-06-14T13:00:49 *** sigh has quit IRC (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2011-06-14T13:01:06 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T13:01:06 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2011-06-14T13:01:06 oh shit Greece is going down 2011-06-14T13:01:49 *** bhasker has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T13:02:16 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T13:04:45 *** amstan has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-06-14T13:05:35 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T13:05:35 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2011-06-14T13:08:23 mleise: how? 2011-06-14T13:08:54 not in the ocean, but financially. 2011-06-14T13:09:04 *** amstan has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-06-14T13:14:16 pi oclock 2011-06-14T13:14:24 damn, amstans not here 2011-06-14T13:14:30 i think i might have got it on time for him tonight 2011-06-14T13:15:05 antimatroid, wow you really are always on here at ridiculous times 2011-06-14T13:15:23 sigh: bad sample 2011-06-14T13:15:30 i've got a 48 hour exam due at midday 2011-06-14T13:15:34 i'll be up all night tonight 2011-06-14T13:15:36 ahhh 2011-06-14T13:16:08 being on IRC is a good way to ensure you finish that exam, yeah? :P 2011-06-14T13:16:09 smiley1983 is worse than me 2011-06-14T13:16:14 yes :P 2011-06-14T13:16:25 there's only so much hair I can tear out at a time 2011-06-14T13:16:31 haha 2011-06-14T13:18:20 *** Vioo has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T13:20:50 UncleVasya, what doe you mean by "Do compile java-bot into the jre-file"? 2011-06-14T13:21:27 *** sigh has quit IRC (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2011-06-14T13:27:10 antimatroid: nothing wrong with getting your work done at night time, and nothing wrong with work being interspersed with glances at IRC :) 2011-06-14T13:29:36 Vioo: maybe "compile" isn't a right word. You need to make jre-file from your bot sources. 2011-06-14T13:30:01 Vioo: I am not familiar with java. I did it this way: 2011-06-14T13:31:06 1. Made an empty java project in NetBeans. 2. Add bot's sources to the project. 3. Pressed Build. 2011-06-14T13:31:25 I've got a jar-file in the project directory after that. 2011-06-14T13:32:03 But I think you do not really need NetBeans and can do it with command line. 2011-06-14T13:33:18 smiley1983: agreed 2011-06-14T13:33:28 *** bhasker_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T13:33:31 now if only i could find a job that i could do anywhere in the world 2011-06-14T13:33:36 i'd just travel with a laptop 2011-06-14T13:35:41 *** bhasker has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2011-06-14T13:36:34 Vioo: wow! I am sorry, I mean jar-file! 2011-06-14T13:36:57 Vioo: Like MyBot.jar. 2011-06-14T13:37:26 Vioo: I have no idea why I said jre instead of jar. 2011-06-14T13:41:52 ah ok :p 2011-06-14T13:42:27 I'll try that yes 2011-06-14T13:43:16 thx already! 2011-06-14T13:43:27 don't have much time to find it all out myself now :p 2011-06-14T13:44:07 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2011-06-14T13:44:41 When you'll have some time caould you explain how to do that without NetBeans? 2011-06-14T13:50:25 * berak looks, if there's still whiskey in the jar 2011-06-14T13:51:36 * berak bets, oracle puritans replaced that 2011-06-14T13:57:13 *** _0x47 <_0x47!~slash@p5B12FA2B.dip.t-dialin.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2011-06-14T14:10:26 *** bhasker_ has quit IRC (Quit: bhasker_) 2011-06-14T14:15:15 sure 2011-06-14T14:15:35 got exams till next wednesday 2011-06-14T14:15:51 *** smiley1983 has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2011-06-14T14:21:16 *** okay has left #aichallenge ("Leaving") 2011-06-14T14:28:26 *** 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