2011-06-17T00:00:51  *** janzert <janzert!~janzert@24-247-70-35.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2011-06-17T00:02:50  *** janzert <janzert!~janzert@24-247-70-35.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T00:10:55  *** pvarga_ <pvarga_!~pvarga@pool-71-172-108-117.nwrknj.east.verizon.net> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T00:15:38  *** pvarga <pvarga!~pvarga@pool-71-172-108-117.nwrknj.east.verizon.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2011-06-17T00:17:02  *** pvarga <pvarga!~pvarga@pool-71-172-108-117.nwrknj.east.verizon.net> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T00:21:28  *** pvarga_ <pvarga_!~pvarga@pool-71-172-108-117.nwrknj.east.verizon.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2011-06-17T00:35:39  *** pvarga <pvarga!~pvarga@pool-71-172-108-117.nwrknj.east.verizon.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
2011-06-17T00:39:06  *** computerwiz_222 <computerwiz_222!~andrew@216-246-251-236.cpe.distributel.net> has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out)
2011-06-17T00:40:47  *** computerwiz_222 <computerwiz_222!~andrew@216-246-251-236.cpe.distributel.net> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T00:42:52  *** pvarga <pvarga!~pvarga@pool-71-172-108-117.nwrknj.east.verizon.net> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T00:56:22  *** pvarga <pvarga!~pvarga@pool-71-172-108-117.nwrknj.east.verizon.net> has quit IRC (Quit: pvarga)
2011-06-17T01:26:16  *** Pyronaut <Pyronaut!83cb730e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.203.115.14> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2011-06-17T01:34:50  *** berak <berak!~chatzilla@89.204.137.226> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T01:40:47  *** Palmik <Palmik!~palmik@120-49-80-78.tmcz.cz> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T01:52:26  *** UncleVasya <UncleVasya!kvirc@88-214-127-197.dialup.umc.net.ua> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T02:38:07  *** rabidus is now known as Rabidus
2011-06-17T02:45:41  *** mcstar <mcstar!~mcstar@adsl-89-134-1-229.monradsl.monornet.hu> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T02:51:19  *** Zaphus <Zaphus!~Zaphus@1.148.108.142> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T02:56:37  *** mcstar <mcstar!~mcstar@adsl-89-134-1-229.monradsl.monornet.hu> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5)
2011-06-17T03:01:11  *** Zaphus <Zaphus!~Zaphus@1.148.108.142> has quit IRC (Quit: Bye)
2011-06-17T03:12:57  *** mcstar <mcstar!~mcstar@adsl-89-134-1-229.monradsl.monornet.hu> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T03:14:24  *** aerique <aerique!310225@xs8.xs4all.nl> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T03:20:54  <mleise> janzert: I found the code that crashes
2011-06-17T03:21:19  <janzert> mleise: what code is that?
2011-06-17T03:21:30  <mleise> and use mleise instead of Frontier in "later tell" s from now on :)
2011-06-17T03:22:04  <janzert> heh, didn't realize it was one and the same :P
2011-06-17T03:22:20  <mleise> A NaN in the position given to a text drawing routine
2011-06-17T03:23:39  <mleise> hmm scaleX is Infinity. It gets interesting
2011-06-17T03:24:37  <UncleVasya> mleise: Yesterday I saw a "Fetching replay...  status 0"  error. I saw it only once and it dissapeared after page reload.
2011-06-17T03:24:44  <a1k0n_> this SKI combinator shit is mind-blowing
2011-06-17T03:25:33  <mleise> UncleVasya: If you get hold on such a replay remember the game id
2011-06-17T03:26:17  <mleise> janzert: The replay was parsed with a length of 0.
2011-06-17T03:26:19  <UncleVasya> mleise: I can find a link in channel history.
2011-06-17T03:26:34  <janzert> a1k0n_: :) don't go to far down the rabbit hole
2011-06-17T03:26:47  <janzert> mleise: doesn't sound good :P
2011-06-17T03:26:55  <a1k0n_> i have a haskell implementation that can convert arbitrary lambdas into SKI combinators
2011-06-17T03:27:06  <a1k0n_> after relearning haskell for the 17th time
2011-06-17T03:27:10  <a1k0n_> time for bed
2011-06-17T03:27:16  <UncleVasya> I told about that error to McLeopold and he sent me to the Frontier (which is now you if understood right).
2011-06-17T03:29:43  <mcstar> i liked Frontier more
2011-06-17T03:29:56  <mcstar> can you bring him back? what did you do to him?
2011-06-17T03:32:15  <UncleVasya> mcstar: I think he realised that when Frontier comes on the channel thousands of people have a work for him :)
2011-06-17T03:32:32  <mleise> janzert: I'l simply use scaleX = 0 when the duration is 0. That'll fix it
2011-06-17T03:33:04  <mleise> yeah people keep buggin me to add features, fix bugs, activate their accounts, ...
2011-06-17T03:33:19  <janzert> ahh, so the duration actually should be 0 when all but one person crashes on the first turn then?
2011-06-17T03:34:39  <UncleVasya> mleise: oopse, I didnt' give a link that time. I'll remember links if something strange happen in the future.
2011-06-17T03:34:42  <mcstar> too bad, Frontier had a nice ring to it
2011-06-17T03:35:42  <CIA-48> aichallenge: Marco Leise epsilon * rc06ded9 / (2 files): visualizer: fix for crash on replay duration of 0 - http://bit.ly/lQvcwQ
2011-06-17T03:36:58  <mleise> mcstar: are you a native speaker?
2011-06-17T03:39:57  *** antimatroid <antimatroid!~nick@71.215-50-210.dynamic.dsl.mel.iprimus.net.au> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T03:40:18  <mleise> Ok the fix is up. Have fun :)
2011-06-17T03:41:01  <aerique> most of the issues for the "Launch" milestone don't seem very blocking
2011-06-17T03:48:08  <mcstar> mleise: no, not a native english speaker, why?
2011-06-17T03:49:33  <mleise> then I don't rate your opinion on 'Frontier' as high :p
2011-06-17T03:50:30  <mleise> mcstar: I'm on a few other irc channels since recently and I always felt silly with my Planet Wars bot name.
2011-06-17T03:51:39  <mleise> Ok my next tool is finished. A TCP/IP based 2D drawing server for debugging ants graphically.
2011-06-17T03:52:01  <mcstar> well, its like a beautiful girl: if your a beaut and cant stand that men give you a stare, then dont clothe that way
2011-06-17T03:53:37  <mleise> hmm, that's a funny comparison. but yeah, i also try to hide my accent when i speak english.
2011-06-17T03:54:56  <mcstar> aerique: have you seen my loop-abuse? http://pastebin.com/Ykb8wwu1
2011-06-17T03:55:15  <mcstar> have you ever used iterate?
2011-06-17T03:55:35  <mcstar> now it seems to me i use it very frequently
2011-06-17T04:04:37  *** Naktibalda <Naktibalda!~chatzilla@host-81-20-37-12.eckoh.com> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T04:06:08  *** Kingpin13 <Kingpin13!~Kingpin13@Wikipedia/Kingpin13> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T04:21:42  <CIA-48> aichallenge: janzert epsilon * r783b602 / (worker/jailguard.py worker/sandbox.py): Self buffer sandbox output so it won't lock up if OS buffer fills - http://bit.ly/iwVuQV
2011-06-17T04:22:32  *** sigh <sigh!~sigh@173-164-174-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
2011-06-17T04:23:08  <aerique> mcstar: i've seen it now :)
2011-06-17T04:23:52  <aerique> mcstar: i've used iterate in the past, i like it better than loop but the latter comes as batteries included with every implementation
2011-06-17T04:24:06  <aerique> mcstar: writing a game engine?
2011-06-17T04:25:57  *** sigh <sigh!~sigh@173-164-174-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T04:26:21  <mcstar> actually, i re-wrote it in an object oriented fashion
2011-06-17T04:26:53  <mcstar> ive read that in iterate the keywords can be used nested in expressions
2011-06-17T04:27:06  <mcstar> that can be very handy, since loop only allows it on the first level
2011-06-17T04:28:12  <mcstar> right now i only use sbcl, so interop. is not a problem
2011-06-17T04:29:06  *** sigh <sigh!~sigh@173-164-174-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
2011-06-17T04:33:11  <aerique> mcstar: iterate is easy to pick up, give it a try
2011-06-17T04:34:46  *** sigh <sigh!~sigh@173-164-174-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T04:44:36  *** UncleVasya <UncleVasya!kvirc@88-214-127-197.dialup.umc.net.ua> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2011-06-17T04:47:40  *** UncleVasya <UncleVasya!kvirc@178-133-55-89.dialup.umc.net.ua> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T04:52:39  <CIA-48> aichallenge: janzert epsilon * r3cf64f8 / ants/dist/sample_bots/python/ants.py : Switch to new bot seed parameter name for python sample bots - http://bit.ly/mMxt1v
2011-06-17T04:53:46  <CIA-48> aichallenge: janzert epsilon * r6b917c2 / worker/engine.py : Don't wake up all bots to send turn information (no longer needed as the sandbox will now correctly buffer) - http://bit.ly/lLS811
2011-06-17T05:06:07  *** _0x47 <_0x47!~slash@p5B12E972.dip.t-dialin.net> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T05:11:10  <UncleVasya> amstan, I'm trying to login via program. Is this a correctpost-query or I need something more?  Post('http://aichallengebeta.hypertriangle.com/login.php',LoginInfo)  where LoginInfo - 2 strings:  'username=UncleVasya'  and 'password=MyPassword'.
2011-06-17T05:14:05  *** onensora <onensora!Its@e198153.upc-e.chello.nl> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T05:17:03  *** Zaphus <Zaphus!7cbf35b4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.191.53.180> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T05:33:53  *** _0x47 <_0x47!~slash@p5B12E972.dip.t-dialin.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)
2011-06-17T05:40:04  *** _0x47 <_0x47!~slash@p5B12E972.dip.t-dialin.net> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T05:44:23  *** berak <berak!~chatzilla@89.204.137.226> has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [SeaMonkey 2.0a3/20090223135443])
2011-06-17T05:44:55  *** boegel <boegel!~boegel@ca60c171.ugent.be> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T05:45:08  *** boegel <boegel!~boegel@ca60c171.ugent.be> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T05:46:34  <mcstar> UncleVasya: you should use something different for your password, its too obviuous
2011-06-17T05:46:47  <UncleVasya> mcstar: This is not mu password
2011-06-17T05:46:50  <UncleVasya> *my
2011-06-17T05:47:11  <aerique> and he takes the bait...
2011-06-17T05:47:41  <Rabidus> ;D
2011-06-17T05:47:58  <Rabidus> at least there was uppercase letters
2011-06-17T05:48:07  <UncleVasya> mcstar: I've figured out what I do wrong. I need to post to the http://aichallengebeta.hypertriangle.com/check_login.php instead of login.php
2011-06-17T05:48:25  <Rabidus> what are you trying to do?
2011-06-17T05:49:27  <mcstar> you can just try it in the browser, if it works there, should also in your program
2011-06-17T05:50:10  <UncleVasya> I've already get responce in my app that I am authorised.
2011-06-17T05:50:28  <UncleVasya> Next step - making a submission.
2011-06-17T05:50:55  <UncleVasya> Rabidus: Automatic submission upload from testing app to the server.
2011-06-17T05:58:02  <Rabidus> ah, ok
2011-06-17T05:58:06  <Rabidus> not a bad idea
2011-06-17T05:59:13  <Zaphus> sort of not a bad idea, unless it gets a bug and starts uploading over and over again :-)
2011-06-17T06:01:24  <Rabidus> even world greatest idea is bad idea if it is buggy
2011-06-17T06:02:12  <mcstar> the world's greatest ideas are usually immoral
2011-06-17T06:02:57  <Rabidus> but i think you got the point
2011-06-17T06:03:08  <mcstar> Zaphus: i think a more likely bug would be that it simply wont upload anything :D
2011-06-17T06:03:42  *** smiley1983 <smiley1983!~smiley@115-64-7-182.static.tpgi.com.au> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T06:03:47  <antimatroid> UncelVasya: please don't automate submitting :P
2011-06-17T06:03:48  <Zaphus> well if you want it to be immoral, all it needs to do is upload to UncleVasyas login instead of yours, and he pops to the top of the leaderboard
2011-06-17T06:03:48  <mcstar> Rabidus: yes, i get it, just look at windoz
2011-06-17T06:03:51  <antimatroid> people already submit way too much
2011-06-17T06:04:03  <Rabidus> :D
2011-06-17T06:04:05  <Rabidus> lol
2011-06-17T06:04:24  <antimatroid> i'm half joking, but imo people submitting more often is not something the servers need :P
2011-06-17T06:04:38  <Zaphus> but it is something that the people need
2011-06-17T06:04:50  <Rabidus> antimatroid: is there some kind of 'too much' limit? how that overloads the server? is the test case checking that heavy?
2011-06-17T06:04:52  <antimatroid> how hard is it to compile some files and upload them?
2011-06-17T06:05:05  <Zaphus> oh, you mean files that dont compile ?
2011-06-17T06:05:07  <mcstar> one of the funnies jokes i heard regarding software, is that microsoft made the greatest business decision: release buggy software and let the users debug it
2011-06-17T06:05:07  <antimatroid> Rabidus: we give recently uploaded bots some priority for games
2011-06-17T06:05:13  <Rabidus> ah, ok
2011-06-17T06:05:14  <antimatroid> so you can see some games fairly quickly
2011-06-17T06:05:22  <Rabidus> yeah, makes sense then
2011-06-17T06:06:23  <Zaphus> antimatroid:  that could be tweaked, only boost once per hour (or whatever)...    or we just fix the scheduler to be fair and then there wouldnt be as big a problem
2011-06-17T06:07:44  <mcstar> Zaphus: i beleive the prog. will be distributed in binary form, soo, you just gave UncleVasya a good idea
2011-06-17T06:09:21  <UncleVasya> reallly goood :D
2011-06-17T06:10:08  <mcstar> well, did you think of this before? i certainly didnt, im not trained to think of exploits
2011-06-17T06:10:22  *** Accoun <Accoun!~1@static-213-88-39-97.chebnet.ru> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2011-06-17T06:10:23  <mcstar> Zaphus might be a black hat, hmm
2011-06-17T06:10:59  <Zaphus> I made computer games for the last 15 years, always assume there are evil people trying to do something outside the rules :-)
2011-06-17T06:11:11  *** noid03957 <noid03957!~1@static-213-88-39-97.chebnet.ru> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T06:11:13  <Rabidus> every developer should think exploits
2011-06-17T06:11:21  *** noid03957 is now known as Accoun
2011-06-17T06:11:42  <mcstar> well, yeah, im far from being a developer
2011-06-17T06:11:56  <mcstar> i dont even develop my own photos
2011-06-17T06:11:59  <Rabidus> you are developing a ant bot now, so you are a developer ;)
2011-06-17T06:12:50  <mcstar> i would say contestant, but yeah your right, but its no the typical appplication where someone should be looking for exploits
2011-06-17T06:13:05  <Zaphus> BIG QUESTION :  What is happening with Ants ?   how will it ever get out of Beta and go live ?   are there specific things stopping it or is there nobody in charge or something ?
2011-06-17T06:13:12  <UncleVasya> mcstar: When I just added Login and Password forms to my app I though that some people will afraid. And it will be a task for me - to make them understand it is safe.
2011-06-17T06:13:46  <mcstar> BIG QUESTION: what is dark enbergy?
2011-06-17T06:13:56  <mcstar> minus the b
2011-06-17T06:14:09  <Rabidus> IG QUESTION:
2011-06-17T06:14:42  <UncleVasya> Rabidus: you are not a C/C++ developer, right?
2011-06-17T06:14:44  <Zaphus> UncleVasya: Don't do it, auto-uploading is bad, mkay...  it's not hard to zip+upload (if the server remembered our login)
2011-06-17T06:14:57  <Rabidus> i am actually
2011-06-17T06:15:05  <Rabidus> i just tried few basic strategies with php
2011-06-17T06:15:33  <UncleVasya> So why do you think that b = B ? :)
2011-06-17T06:16:01  <antimatroid> Rabidus: use the c++ bot over php
2011-06-17T06:16:03  <antimatroid> so much better ;)
2011-06-17T06:16:06  <Rabidus> 13:16 < UncleVasya> So why do you think that b = b ? :)
2011-06-17T06:16:20  <Rabidus> lol
2011-06-17T06:16:23  <Zaphus> 2b or not 2b ?
2011-06-17T06:16:28  <mcstar> not to be
2011-06-17T06:16:53  <mcstar> (? the last action hero)
2011-06-17T06:18:28  <mcstar> antimatroid: i hope the guy that wrote the php bot doesnt know your address
2011-06-17T06:18:52  <Rabidus> he revealed it few days back
2011-06-17T06:18:54  <Rabidus> ;)
2011-06-17T06:19:02  <Rabidus> and channel logs are public
2011-06-17T06:19:04  <mcstar> you doooomed, buddy
2011-06-17T06:19:23  <antimatroid> mcstar: i posted a link to my house here the other day :P
2011-06-17T06:19:36  <mcstar> i was here
2011-06-17T06:19:36  <antimatroid> c++ > php
2011-06-17T06:20:01  <mcstar> maybe php guys cant use google maps
2011-06-17T06:20:31  <mcstar> (heh, thats too much insult)
2011-06-17T06:20:34  <aerique> Zaphus: are any of the games your worked on available?
2011-06-17T06:21:38  *** mcstar <mcstar!~mcstar@adsl-89-134-1-229.monradsl.monornet.hu> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5)
2011-06-17T06:22:04  <Zaphus> arique:  yeah, heaps of them
2011-06-17T06:22:09  *** mcstar <mcstar!~mcstar@adsl-89-134-1-229.monradsl.monornet.hu> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T06:22:56  <aerique> Zaphus: you got a site or anything?  i'm curious, or do you prefer to keep things private wrt ants?
2011-06-17T06:24:30  <Zaphus> aerique:  I'll name a few:   Game Room for Xbox, Star Wars: Force Unleashed (Wii), Clone Wars (Wii/PS2), Scene-It (Xbox), Transformers (PS2), Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (PS2), plus many more over the years
2011-06-17T06:25:43  <aerique> Zaphus: cool.  and you do the coding?
2011-06-17T06:25:49  <UncleVasya> Zaphus: Can you name some from 2002-2006?
2011-06-17T06:26:16  <UncleVasya> \me
2011-06-17T06:26:33  <Zaphus> UncleVasya:  2002-2006...   F1 Challenge (PS2), Transformers (PS2), Test Drive Unlimited (PS2/PSP)
2011-06-17T06:26:58  <Zaphus> I coded from 1995-2000, then became Producer and then Executive Producer
2011-06-17T06:27:02  * UncleVasya like everybody else here thinks that game developing is quite interesting.
2011-06-17T06:27:05  <antimatroid> Zaphus: where do you work?
2011-06-17T06:27:31  <Zaphus> used to work at Melbourne House / Atari Melbourne House / Krome Melbourne   (same place, different owners)
2011-06-17T06:27:39  <antimatroid> http://www.havok.com/index.php?page=havok-ai&hl=en_US
2011-06-17T06:27:45  <antimatroid> that would be a sweet team to work for
2011-06-17T06:29:13  <mcstar> game developing is hard, couple months ago i was trying to understand ioquake3, let me tell you, my brain hurt sometimes
2011-06-17T06:30:01  <mcstar> an engine is a big system, can a single man overlook  the whole game anymore?
2011-06-17T06:30:55  <UncleVasya> mcstar: you was inspired by idea to write Q3 bot?
2011-06-17T06:32:00  <mcstar> no, i wanted to add wallhack, and to circumvent ip ban
2011-06-17T06:33:35  *** FireFly <FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T06:34:03  <UncleVasya> I hope it is not one of your jokes, not-serious-guy.
2011-06-17T06:35:55  <mcstar> why would it be a joke? no
2011-06-17T06:37:28  <smiley1983> Zaphus: I'm curious, were you with Melbourne House when they made Way of the Exploding Fist? I played that on C64 many years ago :)
2011-06-17T06:38:39  <Zaphus> smiley1983: Sadly no, before my time (I was there for the second 15 years of a 30 year company) - but I know people who made it
2011-06-17T06:44:27  <smiley1983> I just went and had a look for it, didn't find it but did find a black box with the Melbourne House logo and no indication of what it contained - which made me think, did they also make a Lord of the Rings game for C64?
2011-06-17T06:44:38  *** Apophis_ <Apophis_!~apophis@217-162-217-10.dynamic.hispeed.ch> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T06:47:32  <Zaphus> yep, lord of the rings and The Hobbit, back in the early 80's
2011-06-17T06:47:40  <smiley1983> Just had a look at Wikipedia, I think I also played their 1987 War in Middle Earth
2011-06-17T06:48:05  <smiley1983> which had the beginnings of something like realtime strategy
2011-06-17T06:48:17  *** Apophis <Apophis!~apophis@217-162-217-10.dynamic.hispeed.ch> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2011-06-17T06:48:17  <smiley1983> but with ordering of single units at a time :)
2011-06-17T06:48:55  <smiley1983> I'm imagining that it must have been a fun company to work for :)
2011-06-17T06:53:19  *** |UncleVasya| <|UncleVasya|!kvirc@31.144.150.22> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T06:53:34  <Zaphus> I think you'll find my name in Wikipedia there...  Kevin Burfitt
2011-06-17T06:55:36  <mcstar> Cthugha
2011-06-17T06:55:41  <Zaphus> yep, that too
2011-06-17T06:55:51  *** UncleVasya <UncleVasya!kvirc@178-133-55-89.dialup.umc.net.ua> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2011-06-17T06:56:01  <mcstar> must feel nice to be on wiki :D
2011-06-17T06:56:47  <Zaphus> especially since I didn't put myself there :-)   I'm in IMDB as well but not for movies, which would be cool
2011-06-17T06:57:14  <mcstar> posing with a star?
2011-06-17T06:57:53  <Zaphus> nah, making games that were based on movies/etc, gets you into IMDB - but not enough to get a Kevin Bacon number
2011-06-17T06:58:16  <mcstar> i see, i forget they put up games too
2011-06-17T07:00:04  <mcstar> then you were young at the time when Hackers took place right?
2011-06-17T07:00:14  <mcstar> it was almost 20 years ago
2011-06-17T07:00:31  <mcstar> 16
2011-06-17T07:01:04  <Zaphus> me, young... nope...
2011-06-17T07:01:29  <mcstar> you were starting your career, didnt you?
2011-06-17T07:01:49  <mcstar> or you did work before the MH?
2011-06-17T07:02:36  <Zaphus> I worked before there, I joined as a senior (was lead within the year)
2011-06-17T07:04:08  <mcstar> im really getting worried that these old-school guys with metric tons of experience will get our nub asses kicked
2011-06-17T07:04:53  <Zaphus> nah, people without lives will do the best :-)
2011-06-17T07:05:15  <mcstar> good lord, then ive still got a chance
2011-06-17T07:05:42  <mcstar> well, it was nice to getting to know you :)
2011-06-17T07:09:21  <antimatroid> haha i just saw the most ridiculous reddit username
2011-06-17T07:09:30  <antimatroid> QWOP_into_mordor
2011-06-17T07:10:06  <aerique> yeah that would suck
2011-06-17T07:11:15  <antimatroid> worlds hardest game?
2011-06-17T07:39:56  *** tomekowal <tomekowal!959c600f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.149.156.96.15> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T07:45:24  *** tomekowal <tomekowal!959c600f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.149.156.96.15> has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)
2011-06-17T07:47:11  *** |UncleVasya| <|UncleVasya|!kvirc@31.144.150.22> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2011-06-17T07:47:54  *** Accoun <Accoun!~1@static-213-88-39-97.chebnet.ru> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2011-06-17T07:48:42  <antimatroid> a1k0n_: I'm fairly skeptical of that method for "updating" the heuristic values even being faster than just using bfs to find my paths, what do you think?
2011-06-17T07:49:00  <antimatroid> i realise you're probably currently asleep :P get back to me
2011-06-17T07:50:53  *** noid03957 <noid03957!~1@static-213-88-39-97.chebnet.ru> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T07:50:53  *** noid03957 is now known as Accoun
2011-06-17T07:53:45  *** UncleVasya <UncleVasya!kvirc@178-133-110-196.dialup.umc.net.ua> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T08:02:47  *** _0x47 <_0x47!~slash@p5B12E972.dip.t-dialin.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)
2011-06-17T08:22:39  *** Accoun <Accoun!~1@static-213-88-39-97.chebnet.ru> has quit IRC ()
2011-06-17T08:30:26  *** Accoun <Accoun!~1@static-213-88-39-97.chebnet.ru> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T08:36:57  *** tomekowal <tomekowal!959c7c0e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.149.156.124.14> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T09:12:31  <UncleVasya> mleise: Can you answer my question? http://pastebin.com/tZs8YWWY
2011-06-17T09:19:49  <mleise> UncleVasya: sorry, I haven't done something like that before.
2011-06-17T09:22:20  <mleise> The multipart thing is right, but I would just look for Stream.AddValue or something and that's where my knowlege ends
2011-06-17T09:24:00  <mcstar> in a nub in this regard, but doesnt the login create a kind of session, so that you can simply call another post request, already authenticated? does it need to be in 1 call?
2011-06-17T09:24:08  <mcstar> m
2011-06-17T09:24:26  <UncleVasya> mleise: thanks
2011-06-17T09:25:21  <UncleVasya> mcstar: I don't try to make Login and submission in one call.
2011-06-17T09:25:42  <mcstar> oh, then i misunderstood
2011-06-17T09:26:06  *** olexs <olexs!~Leviathan@drms-590c4555.pool.mediaWays.net> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T09:26:19  *** sigh <sigh!~sigh@173-164-174-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net> has quit IRC (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2011-06-17T09:26:55  <mcstar> oh i see
2011-06-17T09:26:58  <UncleVasya> There are hidden fields in submit.php (MAX_FILE_SIZE and submission_key). In the post requst I must sent them as well as file itself.
2011-06-17T09:27:38  <mcstar> well, my guess is that the stream is nothing else, than the data encoded in base64, so i think you can just append it at the end of the text fields
2011-06-17T09:30:54  <mcstar> after a quick google search : http://www.myfxboard.com/tiehttp/ look at 6b
2011-06-17T09:31:07  <mcstar> i think this is what you want
2011-06-17T09:44:56  *** tomekowal <tomekowal!959c7c0e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.149.156.124.14> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2011-06-17T09:52:02  <UncleVasya> mleise: Your advice about  Stream.AddValue was a solution!
2011-06-17T09:52:21  <UncleVasya> <h1>Success!</h1>
2011-06-17T09:52:23  <UncleVasya> <p>Your entry was successfully uploaded to the contest server.
2011-06-17T09:53:01  <UncleVasya> So the only thing left is to zip files.
2011-06-17T09:56:08  <mleise> :-D that was one good guess
2011-06-17T09:57:51  *** UncleVasya <UncleVasya!kvirc@178-133-110-196.dialup.umc.net.ua> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2011-06-17T10:27:37  *** Mathnerd314 <Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 241 seconds)
2011-06-17T10:27:57  *** UncleVasya <UncleVasya!b25f1e6d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.95.30.109> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T10:28:27  *** Zaphus <Zaphus!7cbf35b4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.191.53.180> has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)
2011-06-17T10:30:04  *** amstan <amstan!~amstan@69-196-143-145.dsl.teksavvy.com> has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out)
2011-06-17T10:30:54  *** carlosgaldino <carlosgaldino!~carlosgal@189.107.105.221> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T10:32:00  *** Accoun <Accoun!~1@static-213-88-39-97.chebnet.ru> has quit IRC ()
2011-06-17T10:36:26  *** aerique <aerique!310225@xs8.xs4all.nl> has quit IRC (Quit: ...)
2011-06-17T10:42:33  *** boegel <boegel!~boegel@ca60c171.ugent.be> has quit IRC (Quit: *poof!*)
2011-06-17T11:04:18  *** dr- <dr-!~lotus@tuborg.lifl.fr> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0)
2011-06-17T11:08:20  *** Mathnerd314 <Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@128.198.97.29> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T11:21:51  *** Mathnerd314 <Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@128.198.97.29> has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86.1-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.15/2009101909])
2011-06-17T11:38:14  *** UncleVasya <UncleVasya!b25f1e6d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.95.30.109> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2011-06-17T12:00:36  *** Accoun <Accoun!~1@static-213-88-39-97.chebnet.ru> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T12:20:39  *** amstan <amstan!~amstan@69-196-143-145.dsl.teksavvy.com> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T12:20:39  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan
2011-06-17T12:21:05  *** onensora <onensora!Its@e198153.upc-e.chello.nl> has quit IRC ()
2011-06-17T12:21:10  *** UncleVasya <UncleVasya!kvirc@46.133.60.238> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T12:29:13  *** bhasker <bhasker!~bhasker@99-162-151-97.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T12:42:12  *** sigh <sigh!~sigh@nat/google/x-psganfubmbwgifrk> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T12:44:54  *** carlosgaldino <carlosgaldino!~carlosgal@189.107.105.221> has quit IRC (Quit: carlosgaldino)
2011-06-17T12:51:37  *** sigh <sigh!~sigh@nat/google/x-psganfubmbwgifrk> has quit IRC (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2011-06-17T12:54:07  *** sigh <sigh!~sigh@nat/google/x-mfyzcujkqqoapbpy> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T12:55:51  *** berak <berak!~chatzilla@89.204.137.130> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T13:06:16  *** UncleVasya <UncleVasya!kvirc@46.133.60.238> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2011-06-17T13:07:15  *** olexs <olexs!~Leviathan@drms-590c4555.pool.mediaWays.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)
2011-06-17T13:07:36  *** FireFly <FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
2011-06-17T13:08:04  *** olexs <olexs!~Adium@drms-590c4555.pool.mediaWays.net> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T13:08:16  *** FireFly <FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T13:08:48  *** Naktibalda <Naktibalda!~chatzilla@host-81-20-37-12.eckoh.com> has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110413222027])
2011-06-17T13:13:58  *** FireFly <FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)
2011-06-17T13:27:26  *** FireFly <FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T13:29:12  *** sigh <sigh!~sigh@nat/google/x-mfyzcujkqqoapbpy> has quit IRC (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2011-06-17T13:30:53  <bhasker> morning
2011-06-17T13:33:55  <berak> ev'ning
2011-06-17T13:34:18  <antimatroid> morning
2011-06-17T13:47:32  *** Accoun <Accoun!~1@static-213-88-39-97.chebnet.ru> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2011-06-17T13:54:04  *** Accoun <Accoun!~1@static-213-88-39-97.chebnet.ru> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T14:06:12  *** Naktibalda <Naktibalda!~chatzilla@cpc1-heme9-2-0-cust585.9-1.cable.virginmedia.com> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T14:07:02  *** UncleVasya <UncleVasya!kvirc@46.133.70.180> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T14:10:22  <bhasker> its morning!
2011-06-17T14:10:25  <bhasker> not evening
2011-06-17T14:10:48  <berak> it's a majority vote !
2011-06-17T14:11:00  <jbroman> afternoon
2011-06-17T14:11:27  <jbroman> berak: Now you have a plurality but not a majority.
2011-06-17T14:11:46  <berak> and it's still 2:1.5
2011-06-17T14:12:04  <bhasker> well i hold class A shares so my 1 vote counts for 10 of yours
2011-06-17T14:12:06  <bhasker> i win
2011-06-17T14:12:08  <UncleVasya> +1 for evening (21:12)
2011-06-17T14:12:41  *** sigh <sigh!~sigh@nat/google/x-aptbwerqgzvaatjk> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T14:13:04  * berak lived some years in hamburg, where you can say 'moin, moin' all day(and night)
2011-06-17T14:13:54  <bhasker> i forget what morning was in german
2011-06-17T14:13:59  <jbroman> bhasker: Morgen
2011-06-17T14:14:03  <bhasker> ahh yea
2011-06-17T14:14:05  <bhasker> guten morgen
2011-06-17T14:14:08  <bhasker> thanks
2011-06-17T14:14:19  *** sigh <sigh!~sigh@nat/google/x-aptbwerqgzvaatjk> has quit IRC (Client Quit)
2011-06-17T14:14:33  <bhasker> ich sprache nicht deutsch
2011-06-17T14:14:41  <bhasker> that was my extent of german
2011-06-17T14:14:42  <bhasker> !
2011-06-17T14:14:46  <bhasker> when i visited germany
2011-06-17T14:14:56  <antimatroid> it's clearly morning
2011-06-17T14:14:56  <UncleVasya> No, I don't.
2011-06-17T14:15:00  <antimatroid> it's 4 14am :P
2011-06-17T14:15:03  <UncleVasya> Was it right answer?
2011-06-17T14:15:04  <jbroman> bhasker: I will further nitpick by pointing out that capitalization matters in German. "morgen" means tomorrow, but "Morgen" means morning.
2011-06-17T14:15:12  <bhasker> oh
2011-06-17T14:15:15  <bhasker> didn't know that :)
2011-06-17T14:15:29  <jbroman> All nouns (not just proper ones) are capitalized.
2011-06-17T14:15:38  <jbroman> (Whereas "tomorrow" is an adverb.)
2011-06-17T14:15:43  <bhasker> ah as is obvious german is not my strong point ;)
2011-06-17T14:15:50  <UncleVasya> It's like SHIKI and Shiki in Japaness are different names.
2011-06-17T14:15:57  <bhasker> though OTOH "watashi wa bhasker desu"
2011-06-17T14:16:08  <bhasker> ananto namae wa nan desu ka?
2011-06-17T14:16:14  <UncleVasya> nya-nya
2011-06-17T14:16:20  <UncleVasya> ^^
2011-06-17T14:16:24  <bhasker> :)
2011-06-17T14:16:56  <bhasker> watashi wa software engineer desu
2011-06-17T14:17:24  <bhasker> damn my vocabulary is poor:(
2011-06-17T14:17:30  <bhasker> remember the grammar
2011-06-17T14:18:20  <berak> how did you guys learn japanese ? by playing nintendo games ? (like the kid 2floors below me)
2011-06-17T14:18:40  <bhasker> i learnt spoken japanese for a couple of months
2011-06-17T14:18:51  <bhasker> so i understand basic sentences and grammar
2011-06-17T14:19:01  <bhasker> though due to non use my vocabulary is abyssmal
2011-06-17T14:19:25  <bhasker> hirugohan o tabemasu ka?
2011-06-17T14:19:51  <bhasker> moshi moshi!
2011-06-17T14:19:54  <jbroman> I took aikido briefly (long enough for "anata no namae desu ka", "watashi wa ___ desu" and "onegaishimasu" to stick, but not much else.
2011-06-17T14:20:34  <bhasker> hajime!
2011-06-17T14:20:37  <bhasker> how can you forget that;)
2011-06-17T14:20:41  <bhasker> i learnt karate too
2011-06-17T14:20:44  <bhasker> got  to second blue
2011-06-17T14:20:47  <bhasker> before quitting
2011-06-17T14:20:50  <UncleVasya> mute!
2011-06-17T14:21:12  <bhasker> jborman san ananto no uchi wa doko desu ka
2011-06-17T14:21:20  <bhasker> damn
2011-06-17T14:21:23  *** sigh <sigh!~sigh@nat/google/x-lnpexxthdlppmxzl> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T14:21:25  <bhasker> anata no*
2011-06-17T14:21:28  *** sigh <sigh!~sigh@nat/google/x-lnpexxthdlppmxzl> has quit IRC (Client Quit)
2011-06-17T14:21:32  <bhasker> i keep typing it wrong
2011-06-17T14:21:57  <UncleVasya> lol, sigh decided that he came to #japan instead of #aichallenge :)
2011-06-17T14:22:02  <bhasker> :D
2011-06-17T14:23:40  <jbroman> bhasker: I only partially understood that. You're asking me where something is?
2011-06-17T14:23:51  <bhasker> yea where is your home
2011-06-17T14:24:06  <jbroman> Ah. As you can tell my Japanese is essentially absent. :P
2011-06-17T14:24:19  <jbroman> Oh, I can still count. "Ichi, ni, san, shi, go, roku, …"
2011-06-17T14:26:05  <UncleVasya> I like how phone answer sounds in Japanese. Something like "musimusi". I t makes me laugh.
2011-06-17T14:28:30  *** sigh <sigh!~sigh@nat/google/x-gzzcokbfrcvegnml> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T14:30:39  *** sigh <sigh!~sigh@nat/google/x-gzzcokbfrcvegnml> has quit IRC (Client Quit)
2011-06-17T14:32:39  *** olexs1 <olexs1!~Leviathan@drms-590c4555.pool.mediaWays.net> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T14:34:50  *** olexs <olexs!~Adium@drms-590c4555.pool.mediaWays.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2011-06-17T14:38:15  <bhasker> its moshi moshi
2011-06-17T14:38:48  <bhasker> roku,shichi,hachi,nu,ju is that correct, i forget
2011-06-17T14:39:25  <jbroman> You missed the number eight.
2011-06-17T14:39:38  <jbroman> (kyu)
2011-06-17T14:40:06  <jbroman> And then ju-ichi, ju-ni, …
2011-06-17T14:40:07  <bhasker> ah yea i forget what hachi was is that even a number
2011-06-17T14:40:07  <bhasker> lol
2011-06-17T14:40:25  <bhasker> ah yea
2011-06-17T14:40:27  <bhasker> its been so long
2011-06-17T14:40:31  <bhasker> forgotten the basics:(
2011-06-17T14:40:33  <jbroman> roku = 5, shichi = 6, shichi = 7, kyu = 8, nu = 9, ju = 10
2011-06-17T14:40:35  <bhasker> i still have my book though
2011-06-17T14:40:36  <jbroman> wait
2011-06-17T14:40:40  <jbroman> second shichi should be hachi
2011-06-17T14:40:53  <jbroman> One word for 6 and 7 would not make sense.
2011-06-17T14:41:32  <jbroman> And then they have to make it more complicated by having "yon ju" and such (though English is worse in this regard).
2011-06-17T14:41:36  <bhasker> go is 5
2011-06-17T14:41:42  <mleise> is there a japanese programming language?
2011-06-17T14:41:43  <bhasker> not roku right
2011-06-17T14:41:45  <jbroman> Darn, you're right.
2011-06-17T14:41:58  <jbroman> Delete "nu".
2011-06-17T14:42:09  <jbroman> And shift roku-kyu up by one each.
2011-06-17T14:42:11  <bhasker> ah
2011-06-17T14:42:36  <jbroman> ichi, ni, san, shi, go, roku, shichi, hachi, kyu, ju
2011-06-17T14:43:19  <bhasker> ah that seems right
2011-06-17T14:43:54  <mleise> it is really hard to distract you both
2011-06-17T14:44:13  <mleise> saionara
2011-06-17T14:44:19  <jbroman> mleise: I don't know. I know Ruby was developed (esp. initially) by Japanese people.
2011-06-17T14:44:47  <mleise> i mean, can you write source code in glyphs :p ?
2011-06-17T14:44:56  <janzert> mleise: any thoughts on updating the D starter bot so it doesn't crash on the the 64bit seed given now?
2011-06-17T14:45:27  <mleise> janzert: now that you ask for it... i'll look over it
2011-06-17T14:45:33  <janzert> thanks :)
2011-06-17T14:46:00  <janzert> at least I think that is why it's crashing I haven't actually looked into it at all
2011-06-17T14:47:13  <mleise> yes that's why :)
2011-06-17T14:47:34  <mleise> the field name was "player_seed", right? or "playerseed"?
2011-06-17T14:47:41  <janzert> I believe player_seed
2011-06-17T14:47:44  <berak> i never got, what a common random seed is for
2011-06-17T14:48:28  <janzert> I see now that it assumes all values are uint's which is clearly not the case
2011-06-17T14:49:24  <janzert> berak: I agree that a different seed to each player would be a little better, but the common one should still be useful it'll just make identical bots act the same way in the game
2011-06-17T14:50:47  <berak> isn't that like rock,scissors, paper ? will some other player use the same seed ? where's my gain in using it ?
2011-06-17T14:53:31  <mleise> "All values are integers" is all the wiki says.
2011-06-17T14:54:28  <berak> but, talking of random, .. playing a game with 10 same bots, symmetric maps & symmetric food spawning almost always results in a draw. add 1 bot using random...
2011-06-17T14:59:43  <berak> just want to say, if you've got 3 almost equal good (top players), a random underling could still determine the outcome of the game
2011-06-17T15:03:18  <janzert> 2 different bots using the same rng with the same seed doesn't matter since they are pretty certainly using the generated numbers in different ways
2011-06-17T15:03:38  <janzert> it really only makes a difference for multiple copies of the exact same bot
2011-06-17T15:03:47  <berak> k, point taken
2011-06-17T15:07:24  <berak> still, all that  symmetry leads to quite similar situations for each player in the the first couple of turns
2011-06-17T15:07:53  <smiley1983> exit
2011-06-17T15:07:55  <janzert> yes which is at least part of the point :)
2011-06-17T15:07:58  *** smiley1983 <smiley1983!~smiley@115-64-7-182.static.tpgi.com.au> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)
2011-06-17T15:08:00  <berak> not knowing, if that's good, or bad
2011-06-17T15:08:33  <janzert> I think it's the reason some people insist on symmetry
2011-06-17T15:08:48  *** nux67 <nux67!4f58cc94@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.88.204.148> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T15:09:34  <berak> yeah, fairness
2011-06-17T15:12:49  <berak> i'll even side that. it's just making random behavior of one bot  disturbing the outcome of the game more obvious.
2011-06-17T15:14:35  <berak> hey, it's only a game!
2011-06-17T15:16:07  * berak just been one-hand-clapped by the ghost of von neumann
2011-06-17T15:27:07  <CIA-48> aichallenge: Marco Leise epsilon * rfd96710 / (2 files): d starter bot: fix for 64-bit ints in bot protocol - http://bit.ly/l3PVUv
2011-06-17T15:27:07  <CIA-48> aichallenge: Marco Leise epsilon * r50f2cb2 / (4 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'epsilon' of github.com:aichallenge/aichallenge into epsilon - http://bit.ly/kKfTAj
2011-06-17T15:27:38  *** olexs <olexs!~Leviathan@drms-590edadc.pool.mediaWays.net> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T15:28:25  *** sigh <sigh!~sigh@nat/google/x-vounwnfsqynpwana> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T15:30:44  *** olexs1 <olexs1!~Leviathan@drms-590c4555.pool.mediaWays.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2011-06-17T15:30:48  *** onensora <onensora!Its@546BE822.cm-12-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T15:31:44  <berak> don't you get scared by by the thought of half assed programmers using combinations of wavelets and some matrix solvers to control financial markets out there ?
2011-06-17T15:34:12  <berak> ughh, forget that. clearly an 'evening' thought. 'morning' won there before
2011-06-17T15:34:32  <janzert> mleise: thanks
2011-06-17T15:34:52  <janzert> what do you think of moving the value conversion into the switch cases?
2011-06-17T15:35:07  <janzert> technically a value could even be a string
2011-06-17T15:36:49  <janzert> hmm, actually I guess someone wrote in the specification that values are integers :(
2011-06-17T15:37:21  <janzert> wish I had caught that before
2011-06-17T15:40:51  *** UncleVasya <UncleVasya!kvirc@46.133.70.180> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2011-06-17T15:42:55  *** _flag <_flag!~flag@69-165-173-172.dsl.teksavvy.com> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T15:45:46  *** Palmik <Palmik!~palmik@120-49-80-78.tmcz.cz> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)
2011-06-17T15:47:27  *** Accoun <Accoun!~1@static-213-88-39-97.chebnet.ru> has quit IRC ()
2011-06-17T15:59:07  *** Accoun <Accoun!~1@static-213-88-39-97.chebnet.ru> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T16:05:55  *** sigh <sigh!~sigh@nat/google/x-gmyzzprlgzwjssbq> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T16:07:41  *** sigh <sigh!~sigh@nat/google/x-gmyzzprlgzwjssbq> has quit IRC (Client Quit)
2011-06-17T16:08:20  *** berak <berak!~chatzilla@89.204.137.130> has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [SeaMonkey 2.0a3/20090223135443])
2011-06-17T16:14:24  *** sigh <sigh!~sigh@nat/google/x-zjoqywqlenvfpkur> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T16:20:49  *** sigh <sigh!~sigh@nat/google/x-zjoqywqlenvfpkur> has quit IRC (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2011-06-17T16:39:10  *** Naktibalda <Naktibalda!~chatzilla@cpc1-heme9-2-0-cust585.9-1.cable.virginmedia.com> has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 4.0.1/20110518052719])
2011-06-17T16:43:27  *** mceier <mceier!~mceier@89-77-208-118.dynamic.chello.pl> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T16:52:45  *** onensora <onensora!Its@546BE822.cm-12-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has quit IRC ()
2011-06-17T17:00:32  *** olexs <olexs!~Leviathan@drms-590edadc.pool.mediaWays.net> has left #aichallenge
2011-06-17T17:07:22  <amstan> antimatroid: what's wrong with autouploading?
2011-06-17T17:07:28  <amstan> antimatroid: i encouraged him to do it
2011-06-17T17:10:17  <Evious> There's a test server up, right - does it have a page for viewing games? :)
2011-06-17T17:16:37  <amstan> Evious: you clearly haven't been there then
2011-06-17T17:16:39  <amstan> @beta
2011-06-17T17:16:40  <contestbot> amstan: I do not know about 'beta', but I do know about these similar topics: 'http://aichallengebeta.hypertriangle.com/'
2011-06-17T17:16:56  <amstan> here: http://aichallengebeta.hypertriangle.com/
2011-06-17T17:18:56  <amstan> contestbot: later tell mcleopold i'm rather worried about when we'll launch this thing, how much do we have to do, i really want to get this out already.
2011-06-17T17:18:56  <contestbot> amstan: Job's done.
2011-06-17T17:19:00  <amstan> contestbot: later tell janzert i'm rather worried about when we'll launch this thing, how much do we have to do, i really want to get this out already.
2011-06-17T17:19:00  <contestbot> amstan: Ready to serve, my lord.
2011-06-17T17:19:08  <amstan> contestbot: later tell j3camero i'm rather worried about when we'll launch this thing, how much do we have to do, i really want to get this out already.
2011-06-17T17:19:08  <contestbot> amstan: Ready to serve.
2011-06-17T17:20:03  <janzert> amstan: most critical is probably figuring out what we're going to do with combat now :(
2011-06-17T17:21:40  <janzert> also we haven't even started working on email sending that I know of
2011-06-17T17:23:24  <janzert> also game paramaters that are actually feasible with the resources available need to be figured out and a trueskill implementation that works 100% of the time and ...
2011-06-17T17:24:47  <amstan> still, i feel kinda sketchy having this beta for so long, we have almost 200 users now
2011-06-17T17:27:22  *** McLeopold <McLeopold!~Scott@c-71-231-166-135.hsd1.wa.comcast.net> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T17:27:28  *** McLeopold <McLeopold!~Scott@c-71-231-166-135.hsd1.wa.comcast.net> has left #aichallenge
2011-06-17T17:27:38  *** sigh <sigh!~sigh@nat/google/x-buhnaftfqqotonxo> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T17:27:38  *** McLeopold <McLeopold!~Scott@c-71-231-166-135.hsd1.wa.comcast.net> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T17:28:38  <janzert> we could reset it and/or make it invite only like planetwars was if you want
2011-06-17T17:29:01  <janzert> I don't see a big problem with it though
2011-06-17T17:29:10  <amstan> i would like mcleopold's oppinion as well
2011-06-17T17:29:18  <McLeopold> uh
2011-06-17T17:29:18  <amstan> and i really want to get a hold of jeff too
2011-06-17T17:29:28  <amstan> McLeopold: see backlog
2011-06-17T17:29:40  <McLeopold> We have been in beta long enough that we ought to open it up to everyone
2011-06-17T17:29:51  <amstan> yes, that's what i'm thinking too
2011-06-17T17:29:55  <janzert> it is isn't it?
2011-06-17T17:29:56  <McLeopold> Let's just launch now, and make the contest longer
2011-06-17T17:29:59  *** computerwiz_222 <computerwiz_222!~andrew@216-246-251-236.cpe.distributel.net> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T17:30:16  <amstan> McLeopold: we can't launch now, we don't have a server
2011-06-17T17:30:18  <janzert> launch and then change basic game mechanics?
2011-06-17T17:30:25  <amstan> and apparently there's still issues ^
2011-06-17T17:30:26  <janzert> sounds like a recipe for disaster
2011-06-17T17:30:40  <McLeopold> recipe for argument maybe, not disaster
2011-06-17T17:31:04  <McLeopold> All the map gen/seeding issues can be fixed after launch
2011-06-17T17:31:05  *** olexs1 <olexs1!~Adium@drms-590edadc.pool.mediaWays.net> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T17:31:05  <amstan> janzert: oh, also: https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge/pull/157#issuecomment-1366847
2011-06-17T17:31:11  <janzert> depending on how it changes it has the potential to break every bot
2011-06-17T17:31:27  <McLeopold> only the web lists *need* to be done right away
2011-06-17T17:31:34  <janzert> yeah, map gen isn't that big a deal for launch
2011-06-17T17:31:43  <McLeopold> and email
2011-06-17T17:31:57  <janzert> amstan: do we have anyone familiar with C#/mono that could comment on it
2011-06-17T17:32:00  <McLeopold> are jails already fast now? did we make the fix permenent?
2011-06-17T17:32:02  *** mceier <mceier!~mceier@89-77-208-118.dynamic.chello.pl> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)
2011-06-17T17:32:03  <janzert> I think email is important
2011-06-17T17:32:14  <janzert> jails are "fast enough" I believe
2011-06-17T17:32:18  <McLeopold> okay
2011-06-17T17:32:25  *** olexs1 <olexs1!~Adium@drms-590edadc.pool.mediaWays.net> has quit IRC (Client Quit)
2011-06-17T17:32:31  <janzert> running an ec2 server with secure jails right now to get a good test
2011-06-17T17:32:32  <amstan> janzert: demerzel knows c#, other than that idk
2011-06-17T17:32:49  <janzert> but it seems like they're somewhere between 60-75% as fast
2011-06-17T17:33:19  <McLeopold> I'm going to move some issues to features so we can see what is absolutely needed before launch
2011-06-17T17:33:21  <amstan> anyway.. i propose a meeting
2011-06-17T17:33:26  <janzert> 69% in the last 4 hours
2011-06-17T17:33:42  <amstan> i'll try to get jeff for it too
2011-06-17T17:34:16  <CIA-48> aichallenge: Alexandru Stan epsilon * r39d9c57 / (8 files in 2 dirs):
2011-06-17T17:34:16  <CIA-48> aichallenge: Merge pull request #189 from coastwise/epsilon
2011-06-17T17:34:16  <CIA-48> aichallenge: csharp starter bot
2011-06-17T17:34:16  <CIA-48> aichallenge: Thanks - http://bit.ly/k9tmWE
2011-06-17T17:34:58  <janzert> amstan: have you actually seen this issue? https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge/issues/117
2011-06-17T17:35:05  <janzert> or did you just think it would be one?
2011-06-17T17:35:15  <janzert> in either case I can't reproduce it
2011-06-17T17:35:18  <amstan> janzert: yep, i say it
2011-06-17T17:35:38  *** sigh <sigh!~sigh@nat/google/x-buhnaftfqqotonxo> has quit IRC (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2011-06-17T17:35:39  <amstan> maybe it was fixed since then, but i definatelly did have it when i installed it at the time
2011-06-17T17:35:42  <amstan> i made the issue right after
2011-06-17T17:36:00  <amstan> feel free to close it if you can't reproduce
2011-06-17T17:36:13  <janzert> ok
2011-06-17T17:36:28  <amstan> maybe the fresh ec2 instances have it or something
2011-06-17T17:36:45  <amstan> i had a fresh installed ubuntu, only ssh was added to it
2011-06-17T17:37:33  <janzert> I installed both in local VM's with a bare natty server install and ec2 without a problem *shrug*
2011-06-17T17:38:07  <amstan> ok
2011-06-17T17:38:14  <McLeopold> Okay, github has 5 issues for launch.  I think that is the minimum we need to do.  That means we could do it this weekend
2011-06-17T17:38:50  <amstan> great, i have 3 issues assigned, lol
2011-06-17T17:38:56  *** computerwiz_222 <computerwiz_222!~andrew@216-246-251-236.cpe.distributel.net> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2011-06-17T17:39:04  <McLeopold> if janzert can do email, then you only have 2
2011-06-17T17:39:10  <McLeopold> or we can make jeff do it
2011-06-17T17:39:12  <janzert> hehe, you are very optimistic :)
2011-06-17T17:39:19  <amstan> yes, why am i doing email?
2011-06-17T17:39:27  <janzert> I've been guessing email will be a week long project
2011-06-17T17:39:30  <janzert> for whoever does it
2011-06-17T17:39:37  <amstan> i don't think i'm capable of doing it
2011-06-17T17:39:38  <McLeopold> Because you have access to the ec2 instances?
2011-06-17T17:39:42  <amstan> McLeopold: i don't
2011-06-17T17:40:06  <amstan> the only reason janzert does is because he has his own instances(i think)
2011-06-17T17:40:18  <janzert> yeah, the Ec2 instances I run are my own
2011-06-17T17:40:32  <McLeopold> so, then jeff does email?
2011-06-17T17:40:41  <janzert> we'll never launch then ;)
2011-06-17T17:40:46  <amstan> i agree with janzert, that's optimistic
2011-06-17T17:41:05  <janzert> I'll try to start looking into it anyway though
2011-06-17T17:41:11  <McLeopold> he's got to do something if he's the only one who has access
2011-06-17T17:41:30  <amstan> McLeopold: he doesn't have access either, that's why i want a meeting
2011-06-17T17:41:32  <McLeopold> I don't see how email can be that complicated.  We haven't changed anything in the email script.
2011-06-17T17:41:34  <janzert> yes, we'll have to get him to make the needed changes to the account eventually
2011-06-17T17:41:36  <amstan> we have to buy servers and decide when to launch
2011-06-17T17:42:02  <McLeopold> wait...nobody has access to ai-contest.com?
2011-06-17T17:42:08  <janzert> we've never used amazon email service before (and that's why we had so much trouble with it too)
2011-06-17T17:42:22  <janzert> ai-contest.com isn't on ec2
2011-06-17T17:42:32  <McLeopold> oh
2011-06-17T17:42:37  <McLeopold> where is it?
2011-06-17T17:42:39  <janzert> even if it was it doesn't imply access to the ec2 account
2011-06-17T17:42:48  * janzert shrugs
2011-06-17T17:42:56  <janzert> chicago I think though :)
2011-06-17T17:42:57  <McLeopold> canada?
2011-06-17T17:43:00  *** computerwiz_222 <computerwiz_222!~andrew@216-246-251-236.cpe.distributel.net> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T17:43:09  <janzert> it's get a central time zone
2011-06-17T17:43:12  <McLeopold> amstan?
2011-06-17T17:43:17  <janzert> got even
2011-06-17T17:43:19  <amstan> McLeopold: it's a vps that jeff got
2011-06-17T17:43:45  <amstan> he also uses it for a bunch of his sites/minecraft servers
2011-06-17T17:43:55  <janzert> McLeopold: also any idea what to do about trueskill?
2011-06-17T17:44:07  <McLeopold> janzert: raise the draw prob?
2011-06-17T17:44:40  <janzert> yeah, it's pretty hacky but I'm thinking it might be the next best thing to try :(
2011-06-17T17:45:05  <McLeopold> if it fails consistantly, we could try it against the c# implementation.  If it still fails, we could ask the guy that wrote it
2011-06-17T17:45:54  <McLeopold> we could send a form post to the microsoft online calc?
2011-06-17T17:46:06  <janzert> heh
2011-06-17T17:46:22  <janzert> I wonder how long before we would get blocked :P
2011-06-17T17:46:27  <amstan> McLeopold: try posting on the forums about the issue, there seems to be a few ppl who know about it
2011-06-17T17:46:51  <McLeopold> so, can we get jeff for a meeting tonight?
2011-06-17T17:48:19  <janzert> on a little different note, McLeopold any ideas on what the minimum specs of the primary server (web and database) should look like?
2011-06-17T17:48:57  <McLeopold> is it going to be EC2?
2011-06-17T17:49:11  <McLeopold> The database is at 600mb right now
2011-06-17T17:49:16  <janzert> not necessarily
2011-06-17T17:49:30  <janzert> I'm more worried about ram than HD space I think
2011-06-17T17:49:41  <McLeopold> The more, the merrier
2011-06-17T17:49:49  <janzert> i.e. I think anything with sufficient ram will have sufficient HD
2011-06-17T17:49:57  <McLeopold> We can fill up ram with mssql caches if we have it
2011-06-17T17:50:29  <janzert> but would 2GB suffice or should we be thinking 4 at a minimum?
2011-06-17T17:50:57  <McLeopold> I would go 4
2011-06-17T17:51:21  <amstan> well... jeff's as responsive on the phone as he is everywhere else
2011-06-17T17:51:33  <amstan> janzert: we're doing 1 right now, so..
2011-06-17T17:51:49  <janzert> McLeopold: ok, that's been the minimum I've been thinking as well
2011-06-17T17:51:56  <McLeopold> the contest user has 3.4G of data in it on beta
2011-06-17T17:51:58  <janzert> amstan: with maybe 1% of the traffic? :)
2011-06-17T17:52:22  <amstan> ok, then go for 4
2011-06-17T17:52:29  <janzert> McLeopold: hehe, was about to run a du to check that
2011-06-17T17:52:48  <McLeopold> 0.33% of users, more likely
2011-06-17T17:53:07  <McLeopold> aka, launch will get us 30x more, or about 6000 total
2011-06-17T17:53:08  <janzert> anyone here have experience with 1and1.com dedicated servers?
2011-06-17T17:53:52  <amstan> not me
2011-06-17T17:54:47  <janzert> I saw them recommended in a blog post on startups and they have pretty good prices, but had never heard of them before
2011-06-17T17:57:11  <janzert> McLeopold: are old submissions ever being cleaned out at this point?
2011-06-17T17:57:28  <McLeopold> no
2011-06-17T17:57:45  <McLeopold> disk space shouldn't really be an issue
2011-06-17T17:58:19  <amstan> McLeopold: how many games per GB?
2011-06-17T17:58:52  <janzert> McLeopold: yeah, I was just wondering since compiled/ is 1.3GB
2011-06-17T17:59:02  <janzert> amstan: games/ is 1.6G currently
2011-06-17T17:59:25  <amstan> 27038 games played
2011-06-17T17:59:43  <janzert> with 27038 games so just under 17000 per GB
2011-06-17T18:00:13  <amstan> we should do this based on worker*time not on ammount of games
2011-06-17T18:00:34  <amstan> ugh.. then we need gpm too
2011-06-17T18:00:37  <janzert> except we have no way to tell that yet
2011-06-17T18:01:12  <janzert> since that is going to depend a huge amount on what our final game settings end up
2011-06-17T18:01:24  <McLeopold> and how many workers we have
2011-06-17T18:01:37  <McLeopold> let's pick an upper limit as a goal
2011-06-17T18:01:47  <amstan> McLeopold: idk if it's a good idea
2011-06-17T18:01:51  <amstan> we should be removing games
2011-06-17T18:02:04  <janzert> an upper limit of what?
2011-06-17T18:02:10  <janzert> and removing games?
2011-06-17T18:02:20  * janzert go lost in this conversation
2011-06-17T18:02:42  <amstan> oh.. nvm, you're talking about old submissions
2011-06-17T18:02:50  <amstan> i tought you were worried about the space old games would take
2011-06-17T18:03:01  <janzert> ahh, no they have to stay around :)
2011-06-17T18:03:22  <janzert> old submissions could go away like they used to though if we wanted
2011-06-17T18:03:52  <McLeopold> I don't think disk space is something we should worry about just yet
2011-06-17T18:03:57  <janzert> but since they don't get compiled on the main server anymore, it looks like all the uploads so far is only ~35MB
2011-06-17T18:04:09  <janzert> so that won't really save anything there anyway
2011-06-17T18:04:13  <McLeopold> maybe after a month we can do a mass purge, but it's not worth writing an automatted process yet
2011-06-17T18:04:34  <janzert> yeah, I think we'll probably be fine in regards to disk space
2011-06-17T18:05:01  <McLeopold> how do we see the web usage on beta?
2011-06-17T18:05:06  <janzert> 2mil games is < 120GB
2011-06-17T18:05:12  <McLeopold> like the bandwidth used
2011-06-17T18:05:30  <amstan> McLeopold: hmm, i might be able to get that, let me poke around
2011-06-17T18:05:40  <janzert> is there any monitoring installed?
2011-06-17T18:06:30  <amstan> no
2011-06-17T18:07:29  <janzert> a1k0n_: is having fun letting his mind be eaten by lambda card games ;)
2011-06-17T18:07:44  * a1k0n_ sighs
2011-06-17T18:08:07  <a1k0n_> for once this task is pretty well suited to haskell tho
2011-06-17T18:08:31  <a1k0n_> i'm not at all tempted to reach for C/C++
2011-06-17T18:08:47  <janzert> yeah, for once hopefully C++ won't finish in the top
2011-06-17T18:08:56  <a1k0n_> but then again
2011-06-17T18:09:00  <janzert> :)
2011-06-17T18:09:13  <a1k0n_> it's hard to tell how much SKI combinator logic is actually a good strategy to use, vs. just doing one thing per move
2011-06-17T18:09:31  <a1k0n_> and in that case you could do some dumb game tree searching stuff and try to win really fast
2011-06-17T18:09:39  <amstan> 4.40 GB of 900 GB used / 895.6 GB free
2011-06-17T18:09:43  <amstan> since may 22
2011-06-17T18:10:39  <janzert> a1k0n_: I haven't looked at it enough to even develop a theory on what a good approach is ;)
2011-06-17T18:10:54  <a1k0n_> i can't really say i have either, that's the scary part
2011-06-17T18:11:16  <amstan> McLeopold: 4.40 GB of 900 GB used / 895.6 GB free
2011-06-17T18:11:19  <a1k0n_> i'm just determining feasibility of building up an unlambda program
2011-06-17T18:12:56  <janzert> yeah, in reality the language used this year is almost certainly much less important than having a person that develops some good insight into the problem
2011-06-17T18:13:25  <janzert> but that should also help the functional people
2011-06-17T18:14:03  <janzert> given that I think they'll be much more likely to be comfortable with lambda calculus
2011-06-17T18:15:08  <a1k0n_> or even able to write programs in unlambda
2011-06-17T18:15:21  <a1k0n_> the best strategy could just be a precompiled script you just pipe to the game engine
2011-06-17T18:15:44  <a1k0n_> janzert: hey if i have a weird binary tree type, can i use that as the key in a dictionary/hash table/etc mapping in haskell?
2011-06-17T18:15:47  <_flag> Is there any new information on a contest start date or a tcp server?
2011-06-17T18:16:15  <McLeopold> amstan: was that gbit transfer?
2011-06-17T18:16:19  <janzert> a1k0n_: sorry, I've not used haskell so no idea
2011-06-17T18:16:30  <amstan> B is usually Byte
2011-06-17T18:16:37  <a1k0n_> oh, i thought you did for tron.  i'm thinking of someone else
2011-06-17T18:17:07  <janzert> yeah, wasn't me. tron was c++ for me
2011-06-17T18:18:05  <McLeopold> my building is getting buzzed by fighter jets...
2011-06-17T18:18:34  <janzert> uh oh :)
2011-06-17T18:20:35  <McLeopold> I think they are practicing take offs next door
2011-06-17T18:24:53  <McLeopold> amstan/janzert: are we done discussing launch now?
2011-06-17T18:25:46  <amstan> McLeopold: well, seems to
2011-06-17T18:25:54  <amstan> McLeopold:  i'll try calling jeff today again
2011-06-17T18:26:04  <McLeopold> alright
2011-06-17T18:26:09  <amstan> McLeopold: do you still want to have a meeting tonight? or should we leave it for sunday night?
2011-06-17T18:26:22  <McLeopold> I'll try to knock off some github issues tomorrow
2011-06-17T18:26:25  <McLeopold> sunday
2011-06-17T18:27:46  <McLeopold> the more we can say, "ready to launch", before pinging jeff again, the better
2011-06-17T18:28:25  *** McLeopold <McLeopold!~Scott@c-71-231-166-135.hsd1.wa.comcast.net> has left #aichallenge
2011-06-17T18:29:00  *** Zaphus <Zaphus!7cbf35b4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.191.53.180> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T18:41:07  *** Zaphus <Zaphus!7cbf35b4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.191.53.180> has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)
2011-06-17T18:48:55  *** guyverthree <guyverthree!545da467@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.93.164.103> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T18:48:59  <guyverthree> hey all
2011-06-17T18:49:19  <guyverthree> how are people keeping track of the food items because the array is always parsed in the same way ???
2011-06-17T18:49:39  <guyverthree> i keep having the most recent food pop up first in my list which is annoying me
2011-06-17T18:49:50  <guyverthree> i mean the most top left food
2011-06-17T18:58:00  *** Kingpin13 <Kingpin13!~Kingpin13@Wikipedia/Kingpin13> has quit IRC (Quit: this used to be the life, but I don't need another one)
2011-06-17T18:59:51  <bhasker> randomize it
2011-06-17T18:59:57  <bhasker> shuffle the array
2011-06-17T19:00:03  <bhasker> before you process it
2011-06-17T19:00:04  <mcstar> i use a hashtable, no order
2011-06-17T19:05:47  <guyverthree> I would have thought that randomising it would be counter productive
2011-06-17T19:06:07  <guyverthree> so you calculate the best route every turn
2011-06-17T19:07:29  <bhasker> i anyway don't care about order of food items, i route each ant to closest food
2011-06-17T19:08:10  <guyverthree> i suppose that is a good way to go about it
2011-06-17T19:09:22  <mcstar> i store object usually in hashtables, with row as the key, and the value is a vector of col-s
2011-06-17T19:09:28  <mcstar> s
2011-06-17T19:13:04  *** Zaphus <Zaphus!~Zaphus@1.148.122.251> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T19:15:52  *** Zaphus <Zaphus!~Zaphus@1.148.122.251> has quit IRC (Client Quit)
2011-06-17T19:19:38  *** computerwiz_222 <computerwiz_222!~andrew@216-246-251-236.cpe.distributel.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2011-06-17T19:22:06  *** nux67 <nux67!4f58cc94@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.88.204.148> has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)
2011-06-17T19:23:48  *** Zaphus <Zaphus!~Zaphus@1.148.122.251> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T19:31:13  *** Zaphus <Zaphus!~Zaphus@1.148.122.251> has quit IRC (Quit: Bye)
2011-06-17T19:35:44  *** guyverthree <guyverthree!545da467@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.93.164.103> has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)
2011-06-17T19:35:58  *** carlop <carlop!~chatzilla@2-227-10-134.ip183.fastwebnet.it> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T19:42:48  *** amstan <amstan!~amstan@69-196-143-145.dsl.teksavvy.com> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2011-06-17T19:51:06  *** onensora <onensora!Its@546BE822.cm-12-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T19:54:41  *** mcstar <mcstar!~mcstar@adsl-89-134-1-229.monradsl.monornet.hu> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5)
2011-06-17T20:40:58  *** onensora <onensora!Its@546BE822.cm-12-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has quit IRC ()
2011-06-17T20:41:09  *** onensora <onensora!Its@546BE822.cm-12-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T20:55:17  *** Evious <Evious!~n_a@s64-180-62-209.bc.hsia.telus.net> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2011-06-17T20:56:44  *** computerwiz_222 <computerwiz_222!~andrew@69-196-143-145.dsl.teksavvy.com> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T20:56:52  *** amstan <amstan!~amstan@69-196-143-145.dsl.teksavvy.com> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T20:56:52  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan
2011-06-17T21:06:32  *** FireFly <FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly> has quit IRC (Quit: swatted to death)
2011-06-17T21:15:51  <antimatroid> a1k0n: _: i rekon that was jmcarthur you were thinking of for haskell
2011-06-17T21:21:26  *** sigh <sigh!~sigh@173-164-174-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T21:33:28  *** Zaphus <Zaphus!7cbf35b4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.191.53.180> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T21:42:52  *** amriedle <amriedle!~amriedle@CPEc03f0edad5d1-CM001868326e60.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T21:43:21  *** carlop <carlop!~chatzilla@2-227-10-134.ip183.fastwebnet.it> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2011-06-17T21:43:30  *** onensora <onensora!Its@546BE822.cm-12-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has quit IRC ()
2011-06-17T21:45:41  <a1k0n_> antimatroid: yep
2011-06-17T21:45:52  *** carlop <carlop!~chatzilla@2-227-10-134.ip183.fastwebnet.it> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T21:46:04  <antimatroid> a1k0n_: did you see my comment about my heuristic thing?
2011-06-17T21:46:32  <antimatroid> I'm pretty much doing a bfs on top of my a* to update the heuristic information?
2011-06-17T21:46:48  <antimatroid> i'm thinking perhaps i should just stick to bfs if i have multiple targets
2011-06-17T21:46:58  <antimatroid> even though the a* variant is way cooler
2011-06-17T21:52:49  *** Zaphus <Zaphus!7cbf35b4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.191.53.180> has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)
2011-06-17T22:18:42  *** McLeopold <McLeopold!~Scott@c-98-247-248-39.hsd1.wa.comcast.net> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T22:19:16  *** jugde <jugde!~jugde@st-cn0001.oulu.fi> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2011-06-17T22:20:00  *** Zaphus <Zaphus!7cbf35b4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.191.53.180> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T22:25:59  *** janzert <janzert!~janzert@24-247-70-35.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com> has left #aichallenge
2011-06-17T22:26:13  *** janzert <janzert!~janzert@24-247-70-35.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T22:29:46  *** carlop <carlop!~chatzilla@2-227-10-134.ip183.fastwebnet.it> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2011-06-17T22:36:29  <McLeopold> @later tell mleise have you read this before? http://s3.mrale.ph/nodecamp.eu/#1
2011-06-17T22:36:29  <contestbot> McLeopold: As you wish.
2011-06-17T22:46:21  *** Zaphus <Zaphus!7cbf35b4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.191.53.180> has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)
2011-06-17T22:46:27  <janzert> and if that interests you, may also be interested in http://blog.mozilla.com/dmandelin/2011/06/16/know-your-engines-at-oreilly-velocity-2011/
2011-06-17T22:47:19  <janzert> which tries to be a little more general to the various JS engines out there
2011-06-17T22:47:39  <McLeopold> I am interested
2011-06-17T22:47:47  <McLeopold> I just wish this guys talk was recorded
2011-06-17T22:48:00  <McLeopold> Do you know what dictionary mode is?
2011-06-17T22:48:35  <janzert> the term doesn't ring a bell offhand
2011-06-17T22:49:36  <McLeopold> right there http://s3.mrale.ph/nodecamp.eu/#54
2011-06-17T22:50:17  <janzert> ahh, it's the way V8 is internally representing the JS object
2011-06-17T22:51:00  <janzert> once an object has too many properties V8 switches to it (basically using a hashmap to store the properties) and it will cause slower access
2011-06-17T22:51:19  <McLeopold> what mode is before dictionary mode then?
2011-06-17T22:51:44  <janzert> I don't know the details, but I believe it is similiar to slots in python
2011-06-17T22:52:26  <McLeopold> I thought python used dictionaries always and tuned it for function parameters
2011-06-17T22:52:41  <McLeopold> the size that is, to 6 or 8 or something
2011-06-17T22:53:09  <janzert> http://docs.python.org/release/2.5.2/ref/slots.html
2011-06-17T22:54:14  <janzert> of course slots in cpython aren't completely transparent
2011-06-17T22:55:27  <janzert> I have a feeling the V8 jit is probably smarter about it as well
2011-06-17T22:55:27  *** computerwiz_222 <computerwiz_222!~andrew@69-196-143-145.dsl.teksavvy.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2011-06-17T22:58:11  <janzert> and it seems like I've read more about it in the past but I can't recall it and my searches aren't turning up much of anything at the moment :/
2011-06-17T22:59:18  <McLeopold> I'm re-reading chapter 18 of beautiful code that explains the python dicts...
2011-06-17T23:00:43  <janzert> I was thinking python slots also used perfect hashing for their attribute lookup, but I'm not seeing that in quick glance around now
2011-06-17T23:02:34  <McLeopold> I seems like you'll never get away from learning tricks in languages.  No compiler, or JIT, is perfect.
2011-06-17T23:04:20  <McLeopold> okay, time to crank out some aichallenge code...
2011-06-17T23:04:31  <janzert> fortunately at least with the current generation of JITs, it seems the better they get the more likely it is that simple clearly written code will be good performing code as well
2011-06-17T23:08:13  *** Zaphus <Zaphus!7cbf35b4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.191.53.180> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T23:08:23  <Zaphus> McLeopold - you here ?
2011-06-17T23:08:40  *** computerwiz_222 <computerwiz_222!~andrew@216-246-251-236.cpe.distributel.net> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T23:09:11  <McLeopold> Zaphus: yes
2011-06-17T23:11:06  <Zaphus> is the SQL a mySQL DB ?
2011-06-17T23:11:12  <McLeopold> yep
2011-06-17T23:11:39  <Zaphus> ok.. installing now - commands weren't compatible with mssql and it would be too hard to get it working
2011-06-17T23:12:01  <McLeopold> I did write a mssql version, but it's really old and outdated
2011-06-17T23:12:22  <Zaphus> just installing mySql community edition now
2011-06-17T23:12:23  <McLeopold> plus, query optimization is so different in the 2, it would be a re-write anyway
2011-06-17T23:12:32  <McLeopold> on windows?
2011-06-17T23:13:24  <McLeopold> get the mysql workbench as well, it helps
2011-06-17T23:14:33  <Zaphus> ok, thanks
2011-06-17T23:17:00  *** Chris_0076 <Chris_0076!~Chris_007@adsl-74-190-128-89.asm.bellsouth.net> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T23:18:22  <Zaphus> looks like it worked, got a big-assed DB now :-)
2011-06-17T23:18:30  <McLeopold> yes you do
2011-06-17T23:21:32  <janzert> McLeopold: did you and antimatroid come to any conclusion about what change(s) to make to battle resolution?
2011-06-17T23:21:46  <McLeopold> no, but I like damage = 1.9
2011-06-17T23:21:58  <antimatroid> i haven't really thought too much
2011-06-17T23:22:07  <antimatroid> i don't mind changing to damage 1.9
2011-06-17T23:22:24  <antimatroid> but i think my concerns are the same as janzerts with that
2011-06-17T23:22:36  <McLeopold> the only way to avoid blocking is to do 1:1 or allow 1 ant to take out multiple ants, but that makes a very different game
2011-06-17T23:22:37  <janzert> the only worry I have about it is that it may reduce the incentive to cluster too much
2011-06-17T23:23:00  <janzert> or allow an ant to 'direct' its damage?
2011-06-17T23:23:07  <McLeopold> so, all we can do is make it more difficult to block by requiring more ants to do so in larger shapes
2011-06-17T23:23:20  <McLeopold> janzert: but that makes it 1:1
2011-06-17T23:23:23  <antimatroid> janzert: we'd have to process attacks before moves
2011-06-17T23:24:31  <McLeopold> with damage=1.9, it means you only need to cluster if there is more than 1 enemy ant close
2011-06-17T23:24:41  <McLeopold> or, avoid clustering, I mean
2011-06-17T23:25:05  <antimatroid> what kind of battle radius with 1.9?
2011-06-17T23:25:08  <McLeopold> with 2 ants, there is 3.8 damage to go around, so a 2 on 3 may favor the 2
2011-06-17T23:25:20  <antimatroid> to get clustering happening at all you need to be able to have a few ants in a battle
2011-06-17T23:25:27  <janzert> I was wondering about a scheme where the ant could direct say .75 damage at any one square and it's normal 1 unit of damage would still be split up like normal
2011-06-17T23:25:47  <janzert> so 2 ants in concert could be guarunteed to kill at least 1 ant in a static formation
2011-06-17T23:25:53  <antimatroid> janzert: it does make the game way more complicated
2011-06-17T23:26:04  <janzert> yeah, that's the main problem
2011-06-17T23:26:24  <antimatroid> is blocking really going to be that bad with attack2 = 9?
2011-06-17T23:26:47  <Zaphus> I still think that blocking is less of an issue than people think, removing it actually removes part of the strategy and favors attacking bots
2011-06-17T23:27:11  <antimatroid> Zaphus: defense structures are okay, blocking is boring leads to really long games
2011-06-17T23:27:32  <antimatroid> and*
2011-06-17T23:28:19  <janzert> just had a thought, would gradual damage fall off help anything? my first reaction though is that it would just make it worse
2011-06-17T23:30:01  <antimatroid> how was power method blocked with wider corridors?
2011-06-17T23:30:31  <janzert> I don't really remember if it was at all or not
2011-06-17T23:30:38  <antimatroid> i don't think it was
2011-06-17T23:30:57  <Zaphus> antimatroid:  Standoffs will lead to boring long games as well, I wish someone could show me some games (with strong bots) that show the problem... it seems theoretical so far
2011-06-17T23:30:58  <janzert> maybe McLeopold could run his blocking test with it
2011-06-17T23:31:15  <Zaphus> and my suggestion of water drying up solves it completely, not sure why that's not an option
2011-06-17T23:31:20  <antimatroid> Zaphus: that's the problem with these contests, the strong bots don't come till later
2011-06-17T23:31:27  <antimatroid> i'm really against drying up water
2011-06-17T23:31:40  <antimatroid> plus the input format would need to change a lot to do that
2011-06-17T23:32:34  <antimatroid> http://i.imgur.com/rZKCu.png the top outcome is power in these i think
2011-06-17T23:32:34  <Zaphus> nope, just add "e ROW COL"  (evaporated water)   only for things you've previously seen
2011-06-17T23:32:41  <antimatroid> and i think it's with attack2=4
2011-06-17T23:34:10  <antimatroid> that looks way less blockingish to me
2011-06-17T23:34:49  <antimatroid> the rule really is quite simple once people understand the part of comparing the number of enemies to any of those enemies enemies in range
2011-06-17T23:35:02  <antimatroid> i hate how hard that is to phrase :P
2011-06-17T23:35:18  <janzert> didn't we find a better way to describe it at one point?
2011-06-17T23:35:25  <antimatroid> yes, hang on
2011-06-17T23:35:37  <Zaphus> is it something supported in teh current server code ?  i.e. can it be tested ?
2011-06-17T23:35:51  <janzert> Zaphus: yeah, it's still in there
2011-06-17T23:36:02  <antimatroid> An ant lives if it has less enemies in range than each of those enemies in range have.
2011-06-17T23:36:20  <antimatroid> (https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge/wiki/Ants-Battle-Resolution-Options)
2011-06-17T23:36:21  *** amriedle <amriedle!~amriedle@CPEc03f0edad5d1-CM001868326e60.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)
2011-06-17T23:36:46  <janzert> swap the last two words and it sounds pretty clear to me
2011-06-17T23:36:57  *** Chris_0076 <Chris_0076!~Chris_007@adsl-74-190-128-89.asm.bellsouth.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2011-06-17T23:38:07  <McLeopold> with the fall off comment, that is similar to my closest in range idea
2011-06-17T23:38:54  <Zaphus> antimatroid:  it needs a picture or three
2011-06-17T23:39:06  <antimatroid> Zaphus: the imgur link above
2011-06-17T23:39:18  <antimatroid> the top outcome is power method with attack2=4
2011-06-17T23:39:21  <antimatroid> you have LOTS of examples
2011-06-17T23:39:28  <janzert> Zaphus: http://i.imgur.com/rZKCu.png the top branch of each scenario
2011-06-17T23:39:31  <McLeopold> you mean occupied method
2011-06-17T23:39:52  <antimatroid> McLeopold:  it's the power method
2011-06-17T23:39:55  <antimatroid> https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge/wiki/Ants-Battle-Resolution-Options there's examples there too
2011-06-17T23:40:00  <antimatroid> at the bottom
2011-06-17T23:40:16  <McLeopold> no, it's the occupied method, just because you put a stupid term in the wiki doesn't make it right
2011-06-17T23:40:39  <antimatroid> i didn't make the term, someone else did, and we came up with names that most people were happy with :P
2011-06-17T23:40:46  <antimatroid> it would be a lot easier if everyone went to using them
2011-06-17T23:41:49  <Zaphus> those images are not instructive to people - it will need clear diagrams to show people how it works.   I don't see how it stops blocking, because now the ants in a corridoor will always have their exit blocked by a large group just sitting there
2011-06-17T23:42:22  <janzert> it's the method in do_attack_power in ants/ants.py
2011-06-17T23:42:41  <antimatroid> Zaphus: yes sure, but such images are a lot of effort and the battle stuff has changed a lot
2011-06-17T23:43:03  <antimatroid> there's no point in making the images every time it changes, once we launch with an option such "animations" or whatever can be done
2011-06-17T23:43:10  <janzert> Zaphus: it seems you can always kill some of those ants in the group at the end of the corridor if the corridor width is larger than 2 though
2011-06-17T23:43:35  <antimatroid> janzert: i thought that with damage too though :P
2011-06-17T23:43:43  <janzert> antimatroid: yep :(
2011-06-17T23:44:20  <janzert> McLeopold: can your blocking test check out that method just by switching to the do_attack_power function in ants.py?
2011-06-17T23:45:40  <antimatroid> Zaphus: do you understand the power rule?
2011-06-17T23:46:25  <Zaphus> I think so.. although the term power is the confusing bit
2011-06-17T23:46:27  <janzert> I do think calling the occupied rule is a little more intuitive, unfortunate that it was labeled power before anyone came up the better name :(
2011-06-17T23:46:30  <antimatroid> imo the best explanation is, let enemies(a) := the set of enemies in range of a, then a lives if |enemies(a)| < |enemies(b)| \forall b \in enemies(a)
2011-06-17T23:46:41  <antimatroid> i don't mind changing it
2011-06-17T23:46:45  <antimatroid> i think sigh came up with power?
2011-06-17T23:46:54  <antimatroid>  but it would be nice to have a consistent name
2011-06-17T23:47:02  <antimatroid> i used to just call it option 1 :P
2011-06-17T23:47:14  <janzert> :}
2011-06-17T23:49:14  <antimatroid> i think my preferences would be 1) use power/occupied, 2) hope to god blocking isn't a problem with attack2 = 9 3) damage = 1.9, but i really don't care that much anymore as to which we do
2011-06-17T23:49:16  <janzert> another advantage is it looks like we can reduce the attackradius back down
2011-06-17T23:49:48  <antimatroid> as in i'm not going to be butthurt like i was about getting damage/power
2011-06-17T23:49:53  <antimatroid> i do care to some degree :P
2011-06-17T23:50:48  *** Chris_0076 <Chris_0076!~Chris_007@adsl-74-176-225-14.asm.bellsouth.net> has joined #aichallenge
2011-06-17T23:51:11  <janzert> I just worry about starting the contest with a method that we know has ways to lead to perfect defense
2011-06-17T23:51:12  <Zaphus> back later - cya
2011-06-17T23:51:16  <janzert> later
2011-06-17T23:51:33  <antimatroid> yeah i agree
2011-06-17T23:51:33  *** Zaphus <Zaphus!7cbf35b4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.191.53.180> has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)
2011-06-17T23:51:50  <antimatroid> and if we make maps after the contest starts to avoid that being an issue people will complain
2011-06-17T23:52:19  <antimatroid> i can do some map work from next friday over the weekend
2011-06-17T23:52:22  <janzert> i.e. I'd order it 1) use power/occupied 2) damage = 1.9 3) what we have and pray
2011-06-17T23:52:51  <antimatroid> McLeopold: opinions?
2011-06-17T23:53:31  <janzert> but I'd also really like to have McLeopold there is no perfect blocking with the new/old method before we switch to it :/
2011-06-17T23:53:44  <antimatroid> yeah
2011-06-17T23:53:55  <antimatroid> my opinion would change if that also blocks
2011-06-17T23:53:56  <janzert> have him tell us that is
2011-06-17T23:54:01  <janzert> yep
2011-06-17T23:54:34  <antimatroid> but from my past examples, i'm seeing a big tendency for damage to leave the stronger bots ants to the power/occupied method, if that makes sense?
2011-06-17T23:54:53  <antimatroid> like left second bottom row in the imgur link
2011-06-17T23:55:01  <antimatroid> and the one next to it
2011-06-17T23:55:55  <janzert> yeah
2011-06-17T23:57:14  <antimatroid> atm it looks like occupied perfectly encapsulates defense structures without blocking :P