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2011-07-20T06:49:56  <mcstar> Mcstar reports from the city typing away from his phone
2011-07-20T06:51:48  <mcstar> So excitINg to use a keypad that is twice the size of my thUmb
2011-07-20T06:52:37  <mcstar> @rankings
2011-07-20T06:52:48  <contestbot> mcstar: Error: There was a problem accessing the interface to ai-contest.com
2011-07-20T06:54:02  <mcstar> Im still bored
2011-07-20T06:57:02  <mcstar> Well i dont want to bring down the 3g network with my traffic
2011-07-20T06:57:08  <mcstar> Bb
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2011-07-20T09:34:17  <bhasker> morning
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2011-07-20T09:51:27  <bhasker> http://aichallengebeta.hypertriangle.com/visualizer.php?game=97149&user=13
2011-07-20T09:51:32  <bhasker> no more jittery bot
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2011-07-20T10:40:14  <mleise> oh i have a 64-cpu since years and didn't realize it. considering i'm using gentoo and tuned my system by compiling every package using a special compiler option for core 2 duo processors this is funny.
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2011-07-20T10:53:06  <mcstar> mleise: you never did a cat /proc/cpuinfo?
2011-07-20T10:53:27  <mcstar> hm
2011-07-20T10:53:40  <mcstar> i wonder what does it say if you use a 32 kernel
2011-07-20T10:54:07  <mleise> it says nothing about 64-bit
2011-07-20T10:55:19  <mleise> It just says "T7250" and Intel claims this model has a 64-bit instruction set
2011-07-20T10:55:23  <mcstar> address sizes
2011-07-20T10:55:53  <mleise> address sizes	: 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
2011-07-20T10:56:02  <mcstar> 40 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
2011-07-20T10:56:10  <mcstar> for my x2
2011-07-20T10:57:40  <mcstar> there was a friend of mine, who thought he had a 64bit cpu, then when i took a look at it, it turned out, that the memory lanes were 64 bits wide :S
2011-07-20T10:57:52  <mleise> my notebook came with Vista 32-bit pre-installed and it cost ~1000 € so I asked no questions
2011-07-20T10:58:28  <mcstar> thats average cost, right?
2011-07-20T10:58:28  <mleise> hehe, well your friend should have looked up the official specs
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2011-07-20T10:59:10  <mleise> average? well there were some configuration options if you mean that.
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2011-07-20T11:00:26  <mcstar> well, you said "i asked no questions" just trying to figure out why you did that
2011-07-20T11:00:38  <mcstar> was it too cheap to ask questions?
2011-07-20T11:01:09  <mleise> I asked no questions about 32-bit/64-bit, because when I pay 1000€ I consider the pre-installed OS to fit the architecture.
2011-07-20T11:01:21  <mleise> no it was expensive enough
2011-07-20T11:01:26  <mcstar> i see, i needed that clarification
2011-07-20T11:01:40  <mleise> some low-cost office computers have 32-bit systems on 64-bit cpus
2011-07-20T11:01:49  <mleise> or had at least
2011-07-20T11:01:56  <mcstar> i guess vista wasnt really stable/whatever when you bought it
2011-07-20T11:02:05  <mcstar> and 64 bit dirvers were lacking
2011-07-20T11:02:13  <mleise> yeah maybe
2011-07-20T11:02:24  <mleise> "can i haz upgrade?"
2011-07-20T11:03:19  <mcstar> i dont have a laptop since my powerbook g4 broke down
2011-07-20T11:03:36  <mcstar> and i dont have the money to buy my own :S
2011-07-20T11:04:25  <mcstar> it turned out today that i need a different kind of glasses
2011-07-20T11:04:36  <mcstar> thats gonna cost a 2TB hdd
2011-07-20T11:05:43  <mleise> hmm, I'm happy with a 1TB USB HDD at the moment. The only big files I want on my internal drive is my music
2011-07-20T11:06:47  <mcstar> mleise: are you not writing a bot?
2011-07-20T11:07:06  <mcstar> i dont see anywhere Frontier
2011-07-20T11:07:51  <mleise> no I am not writing a bot
2011-07-20T11:08:15  <mleise> maybe later
2011-07-20T11:08:47  <mcstar> like after 8?
2011-07-20T11:08:51  <mcstar> :D
2011-07-20T11:09:50  <mcstar> i guess youre picky about your gtk2 style
2011-07-20T11:09:55  <mcstar> what do you have?
2011-07-20T11:16:02  <mleise> what? my gtk2 style? i'm using the crux theme with a slight color change to a pale sand color
2011-07-20T11:18:32  <mcstar> oldschool, eh?
2011-07-20T11:18:38  <mcstar> i used crux
2011-07-20T11:19:26  <mleise> just not that picky ;), but my compiz/emerald theme looks modern
2011-07-20T11:19:58  <mcstar> when i get enough of changing the styles, i always go back to a qtcurve config of mine, its quite good, but very plain, good for qt too
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2011-07-20T12:45:43  <bhasker> beta server down?
2011-07-20T12:46:24  <janzert> no route to host, at least here
2011-07-20T12:46:34  <mcstar> it works perfectly fine for me
2011-07-20T12:46:35  <bhasker> yea thats what i see
2011-07-20T12:46:38  <bhasker> hmm weird
2011-07-20T12:46:40  <mcstar> i saved a local copy
2011-07-20T12:46:46  <bhasker> doh
2011-07-20T12:46:49  <mcstar> :D
2011-07-20T12:46:59  <mcstar> no, not working
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2011-07-20T12:55:25  <mcstar> later
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2011-07-20T13:05:22  <demerzel> jmcarthur: you guys still using the beta server?  i assume so but not really sure how to check lol - been working my ass off haven't even looked at this in like 6 weeks
2011-07-20T13:06:05  <demerzel> jmcarthur: not that i don't want you to or there's some time limit involved just got an invoice so just checking
2011-07-20T13:06:41  <janzert> demerzel: yes we are, thank you for providing it
2011-07-20T13:07:14  <demerzel> janzert: np it's really nothing i am just checking in - only reason i doubted was cuz the admin pw changed and i emailed amstan with it but never got a reply back
2011-07-20T13:07:39  <janzert> ahh :(
2011-07-20T13:07:46  <demerzel> that was like a month ago lol
2011-07-20T13:07:53  <demerzel> so didn't know if i was paying for an unused server ;)
2011-07-20T13:08:30  <janzert> nope, we're definitely still actively using it
2011-07-20T13:08:32  <demerzel> got a good chunk of entertainment out of this last year so 15 bucks a month aint no thing hope i can actually come up with one soon lol
2011-07-20T13:08:55  <janzert> I think we will be moving off by the end of this month
2011-07-20T13:08:56  <demerzel> janzert: do you want the admin pw?  can email it i know you and jmc and amstan
2011-07-20T13:09:22  <janzert> everything I need to do has been just fine with an ssh login
2011-07-20T13:09:47  <janzert> I suppose we should be sure someone has the admin login, but I don't think I really need it
2011-07-20T13:10:14  <demerzel> k
2011-07-20T13:10:22  <demerzel> fyi then amstan has it if he checks email ;)
2011-07-20T13:10:30  <janzert> ok :)
2011-07-20T13:10:48  <demerzel> hoppin back off cuz i'm on vpn and my boss is cto and nosy haha
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2011-07-20T13:11:03  <janzert> see you around then
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2011-07-20T15:18:45  <antimatroid> http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/iuf9n/whats_the_most_ridiculous_thing_you_got_in/c26rws4
2011-07-20T15:18:46  <antimatroid> wow, just wow
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2011-07-20T15:35:16  <mleise> antimatroid: haha, who made a picture of you back then?
2011-07-20T15:35:38  <antimatroid> mleise: hmmm, not sure :P
2011-07-20T15:36:06  <antimatroid> was super weird when i walked into class and the teacher and students had no idea why i was in a dress
2011-07-20T15:36:47  <mleise> wasn't it official?
2011-07-20T15:37:34  <antimatroid> no
2011-07-20T15:37:36  <amstan> ?
2011-07-20T15:38:03  <mleise> I would not have participated, that's sure. It can't be *that* much fun
2011-07-20T15:38:18  <antimatroid> amstan: last day of grade 10 a few of us swapped uniforms with girls, resulting in me being 5 minutes late for my first class and nobody in that class knew at the time why i was in a dress
2011-07-20T15:38:26  <antimatroid> mleise: meh, why not?
2011-07-20T15:38:43  <amstan> lol
2011-07-20T15:39:13  <mleise> amstan: yeah, that. I don't know how to explain it without starting a long argument :p
2011-07-20T15:42:36  <mleise> antimatroid: Let's say I wasn't always accepted by my fellow students and this would have added another layer of weirdness. OTOH maybe that would have gained me a lot of respect for the courage :p . No, I wouldn't have wanted to explain this.
2011-07-20T15:43:29  <mleise> I had a dozen funny excuses for when I was late in class though.
2011-07-20T15:43:41  <antimatroid> i wasn't a particularly popular kid either, but i was starting to get to the point where i no longer cared what others thought by then
2011-07-20T15:44:57  <mleise> Well I hope the girl you switched the dress with was worth it :)
2011-07-20T15:45:25  <antimatroid> worth it? she was just a friend aha, but it was a bit of a struggle to get it on
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2011-07-20T15:55:52  <mleise> anyway I never heard of cross dressing as an event in a school here in germany. we traveled, had carnival and celebrated the last year
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2011-07-20T15:57:21  <mleise> we are very conservative in old europe
2011-07-20T15:58:25  <_flag> Is the timeout threshold on the test server a second or half a second?
2011-07-20T15:58:59  <amstan> second
2011-07-20T15:59:41  <_flag> I ask because my debugging output claims my bot only used 0.43 of a second even though the server says it timed out
2011-07-20T15:59:54  <mleise> Oo suspicious
2011-07-20T16:00:10  <_flag> Game in question: http://aichallengebeta.hypertriangle.com/visualizer.php?game=97550&user=7
2011-07-20T16:01:56  <mleise> _flag: look how your bot suddenly used almost twice the amount of time for a turn
2011-07-20T16:02:25  <amstan> mleise: ugh.. high jacking ctr+f on the visualizer page is not cool
2011-07-20T16:02:30  <_flag> That's expected behaviour in some cases
2011-07-20T16:02:47  <_flag> However it should bail out at 4/5s of the maximum time
2011-07-20T16:02:48  <mleise> amstan: lol, what do you need ctrl+f for :p
2011-07-20T16:03:03  <amstan> to search _flag's output
2011-07-20T16:03:54  <mleise> ok, I'll remember to fix that. I should also disable mouse button 2 & 3 for clicking and dragging
2011-07-20T16:03:56  <amstan> _flag: maybe it was the turn after that? and you can't see the output?
2011-07-20T16:04:21  <mleise> amstan: it cleary says turn 248
2011-07-20T16:04:30  <amstan> mleise: ok, then idk
2011-07-20T16:04:38  <mleise> the last line is from the engine I assume
2011-07-20T16:05:02  <mleise> can the mesurement be that inaccurate?
2011-07-20T16:05:21  <mleise> _flag: what function do you use for timing?
2011-07-20T16:05:26  <amstan> _flag: and you're doing wall time right?
2011-07-20T16:05:39  <_flag> I use C's clock()
2011-07-20T16:05:46  <_flag> I would assume so, it works great on my machine
2011-07-20T16:06:19  <mleise> maybe there was a change in system time - an update from a NTP server
2011-07-20T16:06:27  <mleise> ok that is far fetched
2011-07-20T16:07:19  <amstan> _flag: does it work the same when your cpu is busy?
2011-07-20T16:07:21  <mleise> This is a virtual server. Let's assume another virtual server was working at this time
2011-07-20T16:07:45  <_flag> amstan: I don't know, I don't test it when my CPU is busy
2011-07-20T16:07:48  <mleise> So the engine did not receicve control until the other server finished working 0,6 seconds later
2011-07-20T16:08:57  <_flag> I don't think this is the first time this has happened to me either
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2011-07-20T16:11:28  <_flag> But it hasn't happened for awhile, so I'll see if this is just a thing with the new version or just a rare occurance
2011-07-20T16:11:44  <mleise> It is hard to tell how the scheduler works in OpenVZ. We could write a program that tries to write the current time to a log file every 10ms and see if there are some huge delays
2011-07-20T16:12:40  <_flag> I'm also trying to check when the engine starts timing the bots, since sometimes the calculations it has to do every turn can be kind of complex and python isn't terribly quick
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2011-07-20T16:13:43  <mleise> the engine /should/ start timing when the word 'go' is flushed to the pipe
2011-07-20T16:14:11  <mleise> the pipe can grow up to 64kb
2011-07-20T16:15:52  <mleise> I don't know if a full pipe is handled somehow now. Theoretically a bot could read the data slowly and stall the engine thread. So maybe the engine starts timing with the first byte sent.
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2011-07-20T16:44:44  <mleise> _flag, amstan: I have a test running on the server now. I issue a Thread.sleep(500) and print the actual duration
2011-07-20T16:45:09  <amstan> mleise: aichallengebeta.hypertriangle.com doesn't run workers anymore
2011-07-20T16:45:14  <amstan> we moved to ec2
2011-07-20T16:45:47  <mleise> good to know, lol.
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2011-07-20T16:46:43  <mleise> anyway the longest delay the program printed until now was 1385 ms !
2011-07-20T16:47:27  <mleise> If anyone has ssh access to the EC2 instance I would be interested in the results there.
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2011-07-20T16:51:15  <mleise> I have no idea how EC2 works though. Are these servers are isolated or accessible?
2011-07-20T16:51:43  <amstan> mleise: is it a python program or something? i could execute it easily
2011-07-20T16:51:55  <amstan> but i don't have compilers easily available
2011-07-20T16:52:02  <mleise> I wrote it in d in the quickly.
2011-07-20T16:52:17  <mleise> it is in my home directory, both source and 64-bit executable
2011-07-20T16:52:49  <mleise> replace "in the quickly" with some real english :p
2011-07-20T16:53:03  <mleise> in the hurry
2011-07-20T16:53:33  <amstan> mleise: can you mv it to ~contest/website/ ?
2011-07-20T16:53:35  <amstan> so i can wget it
2011-07-20T16:53:41  <mleise> ok
2011-07-20T16:54:16  <mleise> done
2011-07-20T16:54:26  <amstan> link?
2011-07-20T16:54:29  <mleise> the name is scheduler_test.d
2011-07-20T16:54:39  <mleise> (or without the .d for the executable)
2011-07-20T16:55:48  <amstan> mleise: it's... not outputting stuff
2011-07-20T16:56:00  <mleise> that's a good sign!
2011-07-20T16:56:27  <mleise> it only prints times >= 550 ms (+10% to 500 ms)
2011-07-20T16:57:14  <amstan> nothing still
2011-07-20T16:57:19  <mleise> on the beta server it printed a lot of lines, but the situation seems to be unequally better on the EC2 instance
2011-07-20T16:58:39  <amstan> mleise: now.. keep in mind that i stopped the worker
2011-07-20T16:58:48  <amstan> your process is pretty much the only thing running
2011-07-20T16:59:22  <amstan> for the worker i have a feeling some of them will execute things in paralel
2011-07-20T16:59:22  <mleise> amstan: hmm ok. that's probably not the best test case.
2011-07-20T16:59:38  <amstan> k.... alone there's no outputs
2011-07-20T17:00:16  <mleise> you can keep it running in the background. it doesn't use any real cpu time.
2011-07-20T17:01:08  <mleise> maybe when the workers are running and other virtual servers on that machine are busy, we see the same effect as on the beta server
2011-07-20T17:02:10  * berak is thinking of dali's cheese clocks
2011-07-20T17:02:42  <mleise> But right now it is good that there is no output. The scheduling seems to be working fine atm.
2011-07-20T17:02:57  <mleise> berak: cheese clocks remind me of pizza
2011-07-20T17:03:48  <amstan> mleise: k, i'm running it with time in front so we can do a statistic
2011-07-20T17:03:51  <amstan> but so far so good
2011-07-20T17:04:03  <berak> what a shame, there's no food respawning in your flat
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2011-07-20T17:04:35  <_flag> berak: Is your TCP server ready for regular use?
2011-07-20T17:04:57  <berak> nope. almost gave up on that one
2011-07-20T17:05:08  <mleise> amstan: well it is a while(true)-loop. You'll have to Ctrl+C out of it. but I guess you knew that :)
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2011-07-20T17:05:21  <amstan> \o/
2011-07-20T17:05:22  <mleise> a typical line of output would look like: "500 ms became 568 (max so far: 2031)"
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2011-07-20T17:05:45  <_flag> berak: Why? It's almost ready isn't it?
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2011-07-20T17:07:56  <berak> _flag, 500 turns will take half an hour. it just looks, that it's not working for ants.
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2011-07-20T17:09:59  <_flag> I'm sure people will still find it useful. It takes longer to upload a version to the main server and wait until you get meaningful results anyway, and you can always run a few clients in parallel
2011-07-20T17:13:53  <berak> _flag, well, it had a lot of bugs, if i go at it again,  i'm in the rat race again, updating the latest ants.py( whatever ) on a daily basis
2011-07-20T17:15:19  <_flag> berak: It just seemed like you had something really close to functional and just abruptly stopped working on it, so I was just curious :P
2011-07-20T17:17:42  <mleise> Everyone knows writing a TCP server means work. I doubt anyone will step up to write a new TCP server. You are now the TCP guy berak :p
2011-07-20T17:18:04  <berak> _flag, your description is pretty right.
2011-07-20T17:18:20  <berak> mleise, you know that rat-race ;)
2011-07-20T17:18:46  <mleise> I know that rat-race ... it was even obvious here in the chat I think
2011-07-20T17:20:58  <mleise> That is why there is no info specific to the battle resolution method in the visualizer. The best would be if the engine was usable without modification in a TCP server environment so the rat-race vanishes
2011-07-20T17:21:28  <berak> yeah, that's the main problem.
2011-07-20T17:21:48  <mleise> What is McLeopold's opinion on that?
2011-07-20T17:22:27  <mleise> No matter if you write the server or someone else, a nice engine interface would be beneficial.
2011-07-20T17:22:30  <McLeopold> no option
2011-07-20T17:22:36  <McLeopold> opinion
2011-07-20T17:22:42  <mleise> zombie?
2011-07-20T17:23:42  <amstan> idk.. i think you could do it easily
2011-07-20T17:23:58  <amstan> just get a wrapper process for each bot on the server
2011-07-20T17:24:20  <amstan> and disable the timeouts
2011-07-20T17:24:22  <berak> engine.py is still starting sandboxes from 'bot-exe-cmdline', instead of taking 'bot class'
2011-07-20T17:24:38  <amstan> not engine.py
2011-07-20T17:24:42  <amstan> but the other one
2011-07-20T17:24:50  <amstan> with play_game.sh
2011-07-20T17:24:53  <McLeopold> what's the rat-race?
2011-07-20T17:25:45  <berak> making a diff, and updating every day
2011-07-20T17:26:46  <amstan> berak: this shouldn't be that hard to do with git
2011-07-20T17:27:05  <berak> hey, McLeopold, i'm afraid, i don't fit into your shoes here
2011-07-20T17:27:08  <amstan> mleise: no output yet
2011-07-20T17:27:26  <McLeopold> I don't fit in my shoes either
2011-07-20T17:28:02  <berak> ;)
2011-07-20T17:28:15  <amstan> why does the worker say 2011-07-20 21:27:25,148 - 20193 - INFO - Running game 145992...
2011-07-20T17:28:54  <amstan> that's like 150% more than the last id
2011-07-20T17:29:13  <McLeopold> the worker displays the matchup_id
2011-07-20T17:29:25  <McLeopold> a game_id isn't generated until the game is posted
2011-07-20T17:29:44  <amstan> would be nice to have a game link in the worker
2011-07-20T17:29:46  <McLeopold> so, if matchups fail, the id's can increase faster than the game id's
2011-07-20T17:30:09  <McLeopold> there is no game id until the game is finished and successfully posted
2011-07-20T17:30:43  <McLeopold> 20193 is the pid
2011-07-20T17:31:07  <mleise> amstan: no news is good news. i would keep it running in a screen session if possible for 24 hours if that is an option
2011-07-20T17:31:20  <amstan> mleise: if the worker doesn't go down, sure
2011-07-20T17:31:51  <amstan> contestbot: learn scheduler_test as ec2-50-17-160-131.compute-1.amazonaws.com
2011-07-20T17:31:51  <contestbot> amstan: Yep.
2011-07-20T17:31:51  <mleise> On the beta server there were occassional spikes
2011-07-20T17:32:14  <amstan> mleise: probably rankings.php loading
2011-07-20T17:32:16  <amstan> @rankings
2011-07-20T17:32:27  <contestbot> amstan: Error: There was a problem accessing the interface to ai-contest.com
2011-07-20T17:32:28  <amstan> mleise: oh yeah, you should submit this tool to the repo
2011-07-20T17:32:47  <mleise> don't you want to rewrite it in python?
2011-07-20T17:40:00  <amstan> mleise: if it works.. why?
2011-07-20T17:40:32  <mleise> ok, I'll make it more verbose and then put it in the util directory
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2011-07-20T18:19:40  <CIA-48> aichallenge: Marco Leise epsilon * rd06c43c / ants/util/scheduler_test.d :
2011-07-20T18:19:40  <CIA-48> aichallenge: added a test for the process scheduler on the server; it sleeps for a given time
2011-07-20T18:19:40  <CIA-48> aichallenge: and then logs the actual time the scheduler took to wake up the process -
2011-07-20T18:19:40  <CIA-48> aichallenge: https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge/commit/d06c43c46e0788fd1e5b7d9f5d3e859d8ede24f1
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2011-07-20T18:58:30  <iouri_> If anyone is interested, I made a couple of changes to the C++ starter pack to make it compile on Visual Studio 2010:
2011-07-20T18:58:34  <iouri_> https://github.com/ikhramts/aichallenge/commit/bad0b11d5bf187bd6a27852641fab56b35b7374e
2011-07-20T18:58:41  <iouri_> https://github.com/ikhramts/aichallenge/commit/7dcdbf3e38f24aaaab2352f7f8a097e188ffe1e1
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2011-07-20T20:37:26  <amstan> iouri_: code style for out project is space only, you added a few tabs
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