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2011-08-25T06:55:46  <mleise> Idea for next contest: make QWOP run as fast as possible.
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2011-08-25T07:01:12  <mcstar> you want to make QWOP run AFAP?
2011-08-25T07:01:20  <mcstar> holllly shit
2011-08-25T07:09:35  <mleise> what lol?
2011-08-25T07:10:11  <mleise> as fast as possible, yes. with AI support by our participants. that should be a fun competiton ^^
2011-08-25T07:13:17  <mcstar> what is QWOP?
2011-08-25T07:15:53  <antimatroid> i saw a post on reddit a while ago of someone claiming to have written something forit
2011-08-25T07:16:05  <antimatroid> they just made a way for it to play it on the site
2011-08-25T07:16:16  <mathis_> someone tried to run a genetic algorithm on QWOP 4 months back http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/gftgs/genetically_engineered_qwop/
2011-08-25T07:17:35  <antimatroid> there we go
2011-08-25T07:17:44  * mcstar is still in the dark as to what qwop is
2011-08-25T07:18:03  <antimatroid> mcstar: http://www.foddy.net/Athletics.html
2011-08-25T07:18:43  <mcstar> i fell
2011-08-25T07:18:48  <mcstar> what is that?
2011-08-25T07:18:53  <mleise> :(
2011-08-25T07:19:01  <mleise> already done... boring
2011-08-25T07:19:27  <mcstar> i hit my head
2011-08-25T07:20:57  <mleise> then again he doesn't seem to have solved the problem yet :D
2011-08-25T07:21:42  <mleise> we could us an alien life form, a beetle, a dog or whatever to make the game different
2011-08-25T07:21:55  <mleise> or add some more joints to control
2011-08-25T07:22:01  <mcstar> i see, this guy i called QWOP
2011-08-25T07:22:31  <mleise> btw my best score in http://www.foddy.net/GIRP.html so far is 8.4m
2011-08-25T07:22:50  <mcstar> there is no feedback
2011-08-25T07:22:56  <mcstar> how can you control  this?
2011-08-25T07:23:04  <mcstar> i mean algorithmically
2011-08-25T07:23:24  <mcstar> did the QA used image recognition?
2011-08-25T07:24:00  <antimatroid> omg i win at life
2011-08-25T07:24:04  <antimatroid> i just finished qwop
2011-08-25T07:24:25  <antimatroid> i used used q and w and edged my way along aha
2011-08-25T07:24:31  <antimatroid> but i finished the hardest game ever made
2011-08-25T07:26:54  <mcstar> aham
2011-08-25T07:26:57  <mcstar> i get it
2011-08-25T07:28:43  <mcstar> almost a full backflip
2011-08-25T07:28:47  <mleise> QA used image recognition
2011-08-25T07:29:27  <mleise> basically the score was turned into a black&white bitmap and compared to sample digits
2011-08-25T07:30:05  <antimatroid> have you guys seen the youtube videos of bots playing like mario 64?
2011-08-25T07:30:09  <antimatroid> i want to know how people did that
2011-08-25T07:31:22  <antimatroid> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82TSWzOsPYc
2011-08-25T07:31:33  <antimatroid> surely that isn't a human? and there's similar snes videos
2011-08-25T07:36:45  <mcstar> wtf? mario in 3d?
2011-08-25T07:37:30  <antimatroid> wtf? where have you been the last 10+ years? :P
2011-08-25T07:37:43  <mcstar> antimatroid: i dont think it is controlled by a machine
2011-08-25T07:37:44  <antimatroid> super mario world was the best though
2011-08-25T07:37:54  <mcstar> search for urban terror jumping videos
2011-08-25T07:38:05  <mcstar> i think you havent seen pro players play fps
2011-08-25T07:38:25  <mcstar> they are amazing, and the urt jumpers are good
2011-08-25T07:38:32  <mleise> Play Xmoto then you see what humans are capable of. the hardest levels are really insane
2011-08-25T07:39:03  <mcstar> those players trade their life for those skills
2011-08-25T07:39:08  <mleise> But the Youtube video you posted was tool assisted, meaning that he saved and loaded the game several times most probably in an emulator
2011-08-25T07:39:26  <mleise> he could also potentially slowed it down
2011-08-25T07:39:54  <mleise> The point of TASR is just to show how fast it could theoretically be played through :D
2011-08-25T07:40:16  <mcstar> is that the way the player sees the game? cause i think the rendering is done from another perspective
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2011-08-25T07:54:21  <mcstar> hm, it is of great importance for me to press the buttons in a specific order and time interval in QWOP
2011-08-25T08:01:00  <mcstar> it is like in my dreams when i cant run
2011-08-25T08:01:06  <mcstar> soo annoying
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2011-08-25T08:04:15  <antimatroid> mcstar: i hate that in dreams
2011-08-25T08:04:26  <antimatroid> it's always as if I just hover in the air for too long
2011-08-25T08:04:30  <antimatroid> worst feeling
2011-08-25T08:06:00  <mcstar> :S
2011-08-25T08:06:06  <mleise> mcstar: Why do you think it is a different perpective? That would have been a lot of work and I know other 3d jump&runs that have this perspective
2011-08-25T08:06:25  <mleise> 31m in GRIP, beat that, ha!
2011-08-25T08:07:29  <mcstar> mleise: cause from that perspective, what ive seen is not the landscape mario tries to pass
2011-08-25T08:07:32  <mcstar> hm
2011-08-25T08:07:37  <mcstar> i cant explain myself
2011-08-25T08:07:49  <mcstar> i mean it a very-very 3rd person view
2011-08-25T08:08:05  <mcstar> the guy who controls the avatar cant see shit from that viewpoint
2011-08-25T08:08:30  <mcstar> its good for rendering, making a movie out of it, but not for playing
2011-08-25T08:09:13  <mcstar> maybe it is the standard viewpoint, i dont know, but the camera doesnt follow closely the avatar, and doesnt point to its line of sight, so that we'd see the avatars back
2011-08-25T08:11:01  <mleise> that's the whole point of these shitty games. they showcase the console by making the game look like a movie :p
2011-08-25T08:13:33  <mcstar> i use console everyday for almost everything
2011-08-25T08:14:24  <mcstar> i dont get it why did they call game consoles console
2011-08-25T08:14:34  <mcstar> antimatroid: what does console mean?
2011-08-25T08:14:43  <mcstar> is it obvious that you play games on it?
2011-08-25T08:14:52  <mcstar> or is it more like a text interface
2011-08-25T08:14:57  <antimatroid> mcstar: game console, snes, n64, playstation etc.
2011-08-25T08:15:03  <mcstar> not that
2011-08-25T08:15:10  <mcstar> i mean as far as the language is concerned
2011-08-25T08:15:21  <mcstar> when you say console, what does it mean to you?
2011-08-25T08:15:29  <antimatroid> like a command window?
2011-08-25T08:15:48  <mcstar> that is the first context you have known "console" for?
2011-08-25T08:16:39  <mcstar> when i say console, its like control + something, i think of a whole panel of knobs and buttons
2011-08-25T08:17:03  <mcstar> i guess they call game consoles console because of the controller
2011-08-25T08:24:40  <mcstar> 14m
2011-08-25T08:25:06  <mcstar> its easy
2011-08-25T08:25:19  <mcstar> you have to keep the back straight with o p
2011-08-25T08:25:25  <mcstar> and change legs with q w
2011-08-25T08:25:28  <mcstar> huh
2011-08-25T08:25:37  <mcstar> how long is the track?
2011-08-25T08:29:11  <mcstar> antimatroid: do you know some practical math book on the subject of differential forms on curved spacetimes?
2011-08-25T08:29:43  <antimatroid> mcstar: not really sorry, i don't even know what they are :P
2011-08-25T08:29:50  <antimatroid> mcstar #math is quite god
2011-08-25T08:29:52  <antimatroid> good*
2011-08-25T08:30:07  <antimatroid> qwop is 100m long with a hurdle in the middle
2011-08-25T08:30:13  <antimatroid> but you can just knock the hurdle over
2011-08-25T08:31:22  <mcstar> i need to find a pratical book on this, with examples and applications, i dont want to read about differential geometry in general, or bundle theory and such
2011-08-25T08:31:33  <mcstar> i have an application in mind
2011-08-25T08:32:19  <mcstar> i learned a bit of genral relativiy, but im not comfortable enough with the subject on the math side
2011-08-25T08:32:43  <antimatroid> i know almost nothing about physics :P
2011-08-25T08:34:23  <mcstar> antimatroid: the most important thing really, is never to violate any basic physical laws
2011-08-25T08:34:32  <mcstar> then youll be ok
2011-08-25T08:34:46  <antimatroid> i just ignore them, life's a lot easier when you don't abide by gravity
2011-08-25T08:35:00  <mcstar> well, thats a violation right there
2011-08-25T08:35:12  <antimatroid> who are you, the physics police :P
2011-08-25T08:35:20  <mcstar> have you ever been caught by PPolice?
2011-08-25T08:35:27  <mcstar> :)
2011-08-25T08:36:06  <antimatroid> i don't get along with people who enforce any kind of rules
2011-08-25T08:36:14  <antimatroid> mainly because i go out of my way to break stupid rules
2011-08-25T08:36:16  <mcstar> tell that to god
2011-08-25T08:36:49  <mcstar> lol
2011-08-25T08:36:57  <mcstar> im getting the hang of that phrase
2011-08-25T08:37:12  <mcstar> "go out of my way to.."
2011-08-25T08:37:23  <antimatroid> what's to get the hang of? :P
2011-08-25T08:37:50  <mcstar> i think it means that i will change my usual behavior, just to make that happen
2011-08-25T08:37:54  <mcstar> am i right?
2011-08-25T08:38:17  <antimatroid> yes, it's like saying you'd deviate from your current path just to do something
2011-08-25T08:38:27  <mcstar> yeah i get it :)
2011-08-25T08:38:52  <antimatroid> you can imagine how much of a little shit i was as a kid :P
2011-08-25T08:39:12  <mcstar> you were a bad boy?
2011-08-25T08:39:15  <mcstar> did you fight?
2011-08-25T08:39:23  <mcstar> or just didnt obey the elders?
2011-08-25T08:39:51  <antimatroid> didn't obey rules I thought were stupid
2011-08-25T08:40:03  <antimatroid> I have never been one for fighting and I'm very opposed to it now
2011-08-25T08:40:45  <mcstar> i got into fights, we were moving a couple of times, which always caused conflicts
2011-08-25T08:40:54  <mcstar> they tried to bully me
2011-08-25T08:41:27  <mcstar> but i was against rules i think
2011-08-25T08:41:33  <antimatroid> i'm not the largest person, which makes my position easier to have
2011-08-25T08:41:35  <mcstar> maybe in highschool
2011-08-25T08:42:10  <antimatroid> i do like to get under peoples skin with my mouth though, and I don't necessarily blame people for reacting violently if someone hands their ass to them intellectually
2011-08-25T08:42:16  <mcstar> im only against the rules(not all) since i started to think on my own
2011-08-25T08:42:39  <antimatroid> that's one thing I don't agree with society on, if you belittle someone intellectually, you shouldn't be surprised if they respond physically
2011-08-25T08:42:45  <mcstar> ah, i think i have a friend like you
2011-08-25T08:43:01  <mcstar> he is a mathematician
2011-08-25T08:43:21  <mcstar> in pubs, somehow he pisses people off
2011-08-25T08:43:50  <mcstar> sometimes we have to step in to prevent a fight in which he would most probably lose
2011-08-25T08:44:14  <mcstar> oh, and im not kidding if you were wondering about that
2011-08-25T08:44:27  <antimatroid> haha that sounds a lot like me, except I don't expect people to step in for me, I do a pretty good job at not allowing things to escalate to the point of a physical altercation
2011-08-25T08:44:53  <mcstar> well, you cant predict everyone's reaction
2011-08-25T08:45:21  <antimatroid> there was this one time at a music festival this guy wanted to fight me because I'd be like "what's up c*nt" and he didn't like me calling him that, then I'd talk him out of it saying it was friendly, then when we were cool do the same thing again, it went on for a ridiculous amount of time
2011-08-25T08:45:41  <antimatroid> yeah, worst comes to worst I back myself to be able to run away, I'm a pretty quick runner
2011-08-25T08:45:47  <mcstar> when did you realize that you are smarter than most people, and adults arent always right?
2011-08-25T08:46:03  <antimatroid> smarter is relative
2011-08-25T08:46:28  <mcstar> lol man
2011-08-25T08:46:38  <mcstar> you call him a cunt and convince him it was friendly,??
2011-08-25T08:46:42  <mcstar> thats a superlol
2011-08-25T08:46:44  <antimatroid> i have a lot of skater friends, a lot of which never even finished year 12 let alone go to uni and they're way smarter for everyday stuff than a lot of people I know at uni
2011-08-25T08:47:00  <antimatroid> i call most of my friends cunts
2011-08-25T08:47:11  <antimatroid> it's something australians do
2011-08-25T08:47:14  <mcstar> im glad im not your friend
2011-08-25T08:48:02  <mcstar> but otherwise this pattern happens: you insult someone, then you talk him down, and make friends with him
2011-08-25T08:48:10  <antimatroid> yep
2011-08-25T08:48:18  <mcstar> than you walk away, and say to your real friend how much a faggot that guy was
2011-08-25T08:48:24  <antimatroid> i don't just insult people
2011-08-25T08:48:36  <antimatroid> calling them a cunt doesn't count, it has to be an intended insult
2011-08-25T08:49:12  <antimatroid> i'm usually pretty nice, i'm just very opinionated and the average person doesn't like that
2011-08-25T08:49:13  <mcstar> skaters have street-smarts?
2011-08-25T08:49:23  <antimatroid> i also like arguing about things and most people equate that to fighting
2011-08-25T08:49:30  <antimatroid> i would say most yes
2011-08-25T08:49:46  <mcstar> ah, i hate that, when people cant make a difference between arguing and fighting
2011-08-25T08:49:47  <antimatroid> they mostly grew up hanging out on the streets in their spare time
2011-08-25T08:49:56  <mcstar> you don have a different word for it, weird
2011-08-25T08:50:08  <antimatroid> for arguing and fighting?
2011-08-25T08:50:12  <mcstar> no
2011-08-25T08:50:15  <mcstar> for fighting and fighting
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2011-08-25T08:50:31  <antimatroid> as in verbal fighting and physical fighting?
2011-08-25T08:50:36  <mcstar> physical fighting: verekedes
2011-08-25T08:50:46  <mcstar> mental fighting: veszekedes
2011-08-25T08:51:06  <mcstar> the last e is acute
2011-08-25T08:51:13  <antimatroid> a cute e?
2011-08-25T08:51:15  <antimatroid> :p
2011-08-25T08:51:48  <mcstar> we have those here, a lot of cuties
2011-08-25T08:52:04  <mcstar> (not sure of the spelling, means beauties)
2011-08-25T08:52:19  <antimatroid> i'm not sure how to describe the word cute
2011-08-25T08:52:35  <antimatroid> my favourite type of girl can be described as cute
2011-08-25T08:52:46  <antimatroid> not necessarily hot, but attractive, innocent looking etc.
2011-08-25T08:53:00  <mcstar> looks nice+interesting+big breasts
2011-08-25T08:53:00  <antimatroid> well, looks wise
2011-08-25T08:53:04  <mcstar> =cute
2011-08-25T08:53:11  <antimatroid> no, big breasts is not cute
2011-08-25T08:53:16  <mcstar> :)
2011-08-25T08:53:22  <antimatroid> well, i guess it isn't not, but i prefer not too big
2011-08-25T08:53:25  <mcstar> yeah, but i like that
2011-08-25T08:53:56  <mcstar> for innocent looking girls you should read manga
2011-08-25T08:53:58  <antimatroid> i despammed the forums btw
2011-08-25T08:54:09  <antimatroid> lol, isn't that cartoons?
2011-08-25T08:54:13  <mcstar> whoa what a good news
2011-08-25T08:54:17  <mcstar> what forums?
2011-08-25T08:54:47  <mcstar> cartoons with girls
2011-08-25T08:54:51  <antimatroid> the ai contest forums
2011-08-25T08:54:54  <mcstar> i dont read them
2011-08-25T08:55:00  <mcstar> but ive seen them
2011-08-25T08:55:02  <antimatroid> oh, someone was talking about it the other day
2011-08-25T08:55:15  <mcstar> unclevaisy
2011-08-25T08:55:17  <antimatroid> i made the mistake of being the one to tell amstan about it so he made me a mod
2011-08-25T08:55:53  <mcstar> id personally be a remainder
2011-08-25T08:57:28  <mcstar> btw, intellectual people are sometimes not good with everyday stuff, because theyre simply not interested enough in them to pay full attention
2011-08-25T08:58:00  <mcstar> but everyday life is really not that mentaly demanding
2011-08-25T08:58:11  <mcstar> you just have to accept the routine, and get on with it
2011-08-25T08:58:41  <mcstar> i hope my job will offer me constant challenges
2011-08-25T08:59:01  <mcstar> well, if i stay in the academia, this will probably happen
2011-08-25T08:59:50  <antimatroid> ah, what to do next year aha
2011-08-25T08:59:58  <antimatroid> i'm considering starting a phd in maths next year
2011-08-25T09:00:18  <mcstar> yeah, at least you have a decent pay there, dont you?
2011-08-25T09:00:39  <mcstar> the only downside of a phd here, is the low income
2011-08-25T09:00:43  <antimatroid> not sure, there's 2 levels of scholarships one for $22,000 a year another for $32,000 a year
2011-08-25T09:00:51  <antimatroid> then one can make money off tutes etc.
2011-08-25T09:01:00  <mcstar> tutes?
2011-08-25T09:01:04  <mcstar> private teaching?
2011-08-25T09:01:09  <antimatroid> taking tutorials for classes
2011-08-25T09:01:16  <antimatroid> nah, do them for classes, pays way better
2011-08-25T09:01:23  <antimatroid> can get up to like $110 a tute
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2011-08-25T09:01:50  <mcstar> wait, you mean you teach the classs right?
2011-08-25T09:02:32  <mcstar> aham
2011-08-25T09:02:43  <mcstar> so a tute is a guy you are mentoring?
2011-08-25T09:15:05  <antimatroid> i don't yet, but phd students do
2011-08-25T09:15:21  <antimatroid> classes have 3 lectures a week and a tutorial
2011-08-25T09:15:31  <antimatroid> tutes are usually just doing examples or going over assignments
2011-08-25T09:15:38  <antimatroid> we don't both with them in my classes anymore
2011-08-25T09:16:36  <antimatroid> bother*
2011-08-25T09:18:57  <mcstar> yeah, phd students much teach here too
2011-08-25T09:19:08  <mcstar> much->must
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2011-08-25T11:51:00  <UncleVasya> antimatroid: Hi. Does engine supports feeding it with custom positions?
2011-08-25T11:56:40  <mcstar> UncleVasya: hi, good to see you
2011-08-25T11:56:45  <mcstar> what do you mean?
2011-08-25T11:59:07  <UncleVasya> thanks, me too. I mean a possibikity to save some state of the game or make it by myself and later start games from this position with different bots.
2011-08-25T11:59:27  <UncleVasya> Something like Save/Load option in any computer game.
2011-08-25T12:00:19  <mcstar> i think theres no explicitely such an option
2011-08-25T12:00:32  <mcstar> but it shoudlnt be too hard to implement
2011-08-25T12:00:57  <mcstar> you should start the engine with a stream file, which visualizer uses, and then continue from there
2011-08-25T12:01:41  <mcstar> but games are usually not that long
2011-08-25T12:01:58  <mcstar> why do you want to interrupt them and later re-start them?
2011-08-25T12:02:54  <mcstar> ok, to change a bit middle-game
2011-08-25T12:03:16  <mcstar> that is super easy
2011-08-25T12:03:45  <UncleVasya> For example, if want to see my bot's behaviour in some concretely situation.
2011-08-25T12:04:46  <mcstar> the first thing i did, is that i disabled the timout on the bots in the engine
2011-08-25T12:04:54  <mcstar> so that i could debug indefinitely
2011-08-25T12:04:59  <UncleVasya> Like surround 2 or 3 my ants with a lot of just standing enemy and make sure my ants kill them without losses.
2011-08-25T12:05:21  <mcstar> i see
2011-08-25T12:05:52  <mcstar> well, a map could store a game state
2011-08-25T12:06:19  <mcstar> maybe, you could try it, change a map, add some ants and such, and start the engine
2011-08-25T12:06:41  <UncleVasya> I triend to change maps (to add some ants to players) and engine says it's not symmetrical.
2011-08-25T12:06:49  <mcstar> ah, yes
2011-08-25T12:07:05  <mcstar> dig into the source
2011-08-25T12:07:19  <mcstar> make the engine load any map you want
2011-08-25T12:07:24  <mcstar> this really isnt hard
2011-08-25T12:07:36  <mcstar> just takes time to find the correct section of the code
2011-08-25T12:08:00  <mcstar> i guess you could ask mcleo specifically about this
2011-08-25T12:08:14  <mcstar> but really, just read the code
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2011-08-25T12:08:58  <UncleVasya> I believe I saw a conversation between antimatroid and someone about this thing and maybe someone is working on this feature already.
2011-08-25T12:09:35  <mcstar> well, if you dont like waiting just do it yourself
2011-08-25T12:09:48  <mcstar> i expect only a couple of lines of rewrite
2011-08-25T12:09:52  <UncleVasya> yep, I'll try to make something by myself when I'll need it.
2011-08-25T12:10:52  <mcstar> bit->bot
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2011-08-25T16:26:06  <mcstar> f me
2011-08-25T16:26:13  <mcstar> i solved my mystery
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2011-08-25T21:30:43  <jsmith_> anyone able to help with an account issue? I.e. deleteing my account so I don't break the rules with two!
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2011-08-25T22:41:19  <yoderbroder> does anyone ever talk in her
2011-08-25T22:41:22  <yoderbroder> here
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2011-08-25T22:45:07  <yoderbroder> sup
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