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2011-09-05T04:03:27  <mcstar> jmcarthur: ping
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2011-09-05T04:29:24  <CIA-48> aichallenge: Marco Leise epsilon * r6bb686d / (6 files):
2011-09-05T04:29:24  <CIA-48> aichallenge: fixed: map not centered on red rectangle when zoomed out (only when row & col
2011-09-05T04:29:24  <CIA-48> aichallenge: are given as URL parameter) / regression: on maps that are higher than wide, the
2011-09-05T04:29:24  <CIA-48> aichallenge: fog of war could display shifted when zoomed in / regression: score and count
2011-09-05T04:29:24  <CIA-48> aichallenge: graphs are not redrawn after a vertical resize / fixed: fog of war grid
2011-09-05T04:29:24  <CIA-48> aichallenge: artifacts on uneven visualizer window sizes / refactoring / documentation -
2011-09-05T04:29:25  <CIA-48> aichallenge: http://git.io/J4uo7w
2011-09-05T04:39:17  <antimatroid> i can't say and frankly without thinking anne frank now
2011-09-05T04:39:20  <antimatroid> the internet has ruined me
2011-09-05T04:39:34  <rabidus> lol
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2011-09-05T05:12:02  <trololo> q all
2011-09-05T05:12:56  <trololo> does anybody know when Google AI Challenge 2011 will start?
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2011-09-05T05:33:50  <Zr40> Soon(TM)
2011-09-05T05:33:56  <antimatroid> trololo: whenever bugs are fixed
2011-09-05T05:34:28  <antimatroid> @later tell McLeopold: I agree about just launching, although it sounds like there's also bugs with matching people up etc?
2011-09-05T05:34:28  <contestbot> antimatroid: I think that worked...
2011-09-05T05:34:46  <antimatroid> @later tell McLeopold: perhaps those at least should be fixed first
2011-09-05T05:34:46  <contestbot> antimatroid: Ready to serve.
2011-09-05T05:35:13  <Zr40> I'd say the horrible site slowness should be fixed as well
2011-09-05T05:35:47  <antimatroid> yeah that should be a problem until we launch
2011-09-05T05:35:50  <mcstar> thats a feature not a bug
2011-09-05T05:35:55  <antimatroid> because the beta site is hosted on a different server
2011-09-05T05:36:00  <antimatroid> mcstar: :)
2011-09-05T05:36:51  <Zr40> 40+ second page loads? sounds more like a really slow query or a long lock than a feature :)
2011-09-05T05:36:54  <mcstar> antimatroid: i have a smaller implementation of the power set function
2011-09-05T05:37:13  <antimatroid> different algorithm or same idea?
2011-09-05T05:37:34  <mcstar> same idea, but with my current understanding of lisp, the one you saw was my first useful lisp code
2011-09-05T05:37:40  <antimatroid> if i was getting the power set of something i'd probably just be lazy and iterate through binary numbers like you said
2011-09-05T05:37:48  <antimatroid> i don't understand lisp :P
2011-09-05T05:37:51  <mcstar> yeah, i think thats good
2011-09-05T05:38:10  <mcstar> have you seen the haskell version,
2011-09-05T05:38:13  <mcstar> ?
2011-09-05T05:38:17  <antimatroid> nope
2011-09-05T05:38:22  <antimatroid> don't really understand that either
2011-09-05T05:38:24  <mcstar> i wanted to discuss it with jmcarthur but he's never around
2011-09-05T05:38:32  <antimatroid> he is, just when you go :P
2011-09-05T05:38:38  <antimatroid> look at the logs
2011-09-05T05:38:55  <mcstar> yeah, i meant that way
2011-09-05T05:40:29  <mcstar> http://pastebin.com/La1csafM this is it, he'll see it when he sees it
2011-09-05T05:41:07  <mcstar> actually, this gives you back a function which you can call repeatedly, enumerating the subsets
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2011-09-05T08:57:18  <jmcarthur> mcstar: around!
2011-09-05T08:58:23  <jmcarthur> mcstar: ah you were wanting to talk about this powerset function?
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2011-09-05T09:07:50  <jmcarthur> looks like we missed each other again, i guess
2011-09-05T09:12:21  <mcstar> not completely
2011-09-05T09:12:35  <mcstar> so hi
2011-09-05T09:12:40  <mcstar> jmcarthur:
2011-09-05T09:13:26  <mcstar> or did we?
2011-09-05T09:13:59  <mcstar> well, ive got a couple of question with the impressive filterM code of yours
2011-09-05T09:14:10  <jmcarthur> alright
2011-09-05T09:14:31  <jmcarthur> i was typing up a little explanation just now, but maybe i can explain it here more briefly
2011-09-05T09:14:46  <mcstar> well, you can finish, i have to dry
2011-09-05T09:15:07  <jmcarthur> heh
2011-09-05T09:16:17  <mcstar> btw i tried it in  prelude, but apparently i didnt load some package before
2011-09-05T09:17:28  <jmcarthur> mcstar: you need Control.Monad in scope
2011-09-05T09:18:29  <mcstar> import?
2011-09-05T09:19:07  <jmcarthur> yes
2011-09-05T09:19:09  <jmcarthur> well
2011-09-05T09:19:13  <jmcarthur> in a source file that's what you do
2011-09-05T09:19:24  <jmcarthur> in ghci you say    :m + Control.Monad
2011-09-05T09:19:46  <jmcarthur> i think import works in ghci in some new version of ghc, but i haven't tried it
2011-09-05T09:19:54  <mcstar> well, it worked with import, i have the powerset
2011-09-05T09:20:47  <mcstar> nice, now come the questions
2011-09-05T09:21:03  <mcstar> this is kind of very high level of abstraction
2011-09-05T09:21:38  <mcstar> does this work for you? doesnt it take significantly more time to come up with this kind of code, than just to write down the algorithm?
2011-09-05T09:21:38  <jmcarthur> i could give a quick overview of what's going on
2011-09-05T09:21:57  <mcstar> sure
2011-09-05T09:21:59  <jmcarthur> it's actually quite intuitive once you see the explanation :)
2011-09-05T09:22:20  <jmcarthur> so, you are aware of the filter function, I assume (without the M)
2011-09-05T09:22:30  <mcstar> now i am
2011-09-05T09:22:44  <jmcarthur> it just applies a predicate to the elements of a list and removes the elements for which the predicate fails
2011-09-05T09:22:51  <mcstar> (my experience with haskell is copy-paste based :))
2011-09-05T09:23:07  <jmcarthur> okay, now, another prerequisite is the list monad
2011-09-05T09:23:16  <jmcarthur> i suppose i can't assume you know it?
2011-09-05T09:23:27  <mcstar> i have a vague idea of a monad
2011-09-05T09:23:35  <mcstar> other than a deity of course
2011-09-05T09:23:36  <jmcarthur> heh, i wouldn't worry about monads in general
2011-09-05T09:23:43  <jmcarthur> just the list monad suffices here
2011-09-05T09:24:06  <jmcarthur> the list monad basically gives you an environment where you can program with nondeterminism
2011-09-05T09:25:09  <jmcarthur> if i say:    do { x <- [1..10] ; y <- [x..10] ; return (x + y) }   then... well, run that in ghci :)
2011-09-05T09:25:21  <mcstar> i thought there would be nond. programming involved :)
2011-09-05T09:25:32  <mcstar> ok
2011-09-05T09:25:37  <jmcarthur> basically, that means you are drawing x from [1..10] and y from [x..10]
2011-09-05T09:25:52  <mcstar> this is just a matrix right?
2011-09-05T09:25:55  <jmcarthur> the result of all this is going to be a list of all possibilities
2011-09-05T09:26:00  <jmcarthur> of adding x and y
2011-09-05T09:26:11  <jmcarthur> and notice that the choices for y depends on the current choice for x
2011-09-05T09:26:14  <jmcarthur> and so on
2011-09-05T09:26:26  <jmcarthur> the list monad basically gives you a complete nondeterministic environment
2011-09-05T09:26:35  <jmcarthur> i'll wait for you to catch up
2011-09-05T09:26:50  <jmcarthur> i didn't intend for that example to resemble any real algorithm. i was just trying to demonstrate some points
2011-09-05T09:26:52  <mcstar> im there
2011-09-05T09:26:58  <jmcarthur> alright cool
2011-09-05T09:27:07  <jmcarthur> so, now we get to filterM
2011-09-05T09:27:17  <mcstar> its interesting that the output is a list, not a matrix
2011-09-05T09:27:44  <jmcarthur> yes. the point is that this is just a list of all possibilities. this is not n-dimensional programming
2011-09-05T09:28:03  <jmcarthur> maybe we should linger on the list monad for a bit longer
2011-09-05T09:28:17  <mcstar> linger we do :)
2011-09-05T09:28:41  <mcstar> so for the prev. code, is the control.monad needed?
2011-09-05T09:29:09  <mcstar> i gues it is, so is do or {} means nondeterminism?
2011-09-05T09:29:10  <jmcarthur> no, everything necessary for that is in the prelude
2011-09-05T09:29:14  <mcstar> ah ok
2011-09-05T09:29:21  <jmcarthur> no, do is much more generic than that
2011-09-05T09:29:33  <jmcarthur> in the case of the list monad, it essentially means nondeterminism
2011-09-05T09:30:19  <jmcarthur> in the case of the IO monad, it's interaction with the real world. in the case of the Maybe monad, it represents the possibility of failure... the list goes on
2011-09-05T09:30:35  <mcstar> jmcarthur: dont we want to go private?
2011-09-05T09:30:38  <jmcarthur> do notation is, in fact, just sugar
2011-09-05T09:30:40  <jmcarthur> sure
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2011-09-05T12:42:18  <McLeopold> antimatroid, match making may be more broken than I thought
2011-09-05T12:42:42  <antimatroid> McLeopold: I haven't really been paying much attention either, been really busy :P
2011-09-05T12:44:35  <antimatroid> ergh, forum spam
2011-09-05T12:54:28  <mleise> McLeopold: care to give me some insight? I had my own ideas, but they all ended up in the match making working properly, but the rules were not well chosen to begin with
2011-09-05T12:57:06  <mleise> I think the two player maps are a result of no more than two players being available to the match making algorithm, right? Or are maps chosen randomly and then the engine assigns the player slots even with players that are a bad match?
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2011-09-05T13:02:55  <antimatroid> i think the maps chosen then the players, but i'm not certain
2011-09-05T13:02:59  <antimatroid> anyway, i'm going to sleep :)
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2011-09-05T13:07:02  <UncleVasya> Sle-e-ep we-e-ell, sle-e-ep  ti-i-ight
2011-09-05T13:07:50  <UncleVasya> No-othi-i-ing can harm you-u
2011-09-05T13:08:41  <UncleVasya> None can hurt you anymo-o-ore
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2011-09-05T13:09:49  <UncleVasya> Your soul wi-i-il cease
2011-09-05T13:10:28  <UncleVasya> You're go-o-oing to-o a better pla-a-ce
2011-09-05T13:11:12  <UncleVasya> Where jo-o-oy a-and ha-a-apine-e-es re-e-eigns
2011-09-05T13:11:41  <UncleVasya> Whe-en you fa-a-all asle-e-e-eep
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2011-09-05T13:13:16  <UncleVasya> Where are ovations? :)
2011-09-05T13:13:43  * berak still a bit scared
2011-09-05T13:45:52  <berak> sorry, UncleVasya, that was just  a children's good night song. and you weren't even out of tune..
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2011-09-05T13:58:09  <mcstar> im kind of happy to know that im not the only crazy person here
2011-09-05T13:58:31  <UncleVasya> heheh
2011-09-05T13:59:17  <UncleVasya> I don't remember any of your craziness.
2011-09-05T13:59:47  <mcstar> im good at hiding it :D
2011-09-05T14:02:04  <UncleVasya> you're just hope for a crazy-man pension
2011-09-05T14:02:21  <mleise> That's not too crazy, but it brings back some live into the channel :D
2011-09-05T14:02:43  <mcstar> life right?
2011-09-05T14:03:00  <mcstar> yeah, it seems we are more often off-topic than not
2011-09-05T14:03:03  <mleise> mcstar: stop correcting me already, that becomes an obsession with you ;)
2011-09-05T14:03:23  <mcstar> mleise: sry, i dont mean to offend you
2011-09-05T14:03:28  <mleise> I also like to say flesh when I mean meat
2011-09-05T14:03:37  <UncleVasya> If you'll listen to this song you'll take back your words about live :D  Persephone - Lullaby.
2011-09-05T14:03:55  <mleise> I counter with Deftones - Lullaby
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2011-09-05T14:04:24  <mleise> oh and maybe Queens Of the Stone Age album - Lullabies to paralize
2011-09-05T14:04:47  <UncleVasya> Start correcting me, I'll appreciate ;)
2011-09-05T14:05:26  <UncleVasya> but it's really a lot of work...
2011-09-05T14:05:51  <mleise> mcstar: no offense taken, but my english is better when I really pay attention. just not on the internet. one day i wrote youse instead of use *g*
2011-09-05T14:06:58  <mleise> I want a language where the written word matches the phonetics in an unambiguous way. :(
2011-09-05T14:07:32  <UncleVasya> Ukranian!
2011-09-05T14:07:33  <mcstar> welcome to Hungary my friend!
2011-09-05T14:07:55  <mleise> oh r'ly?
2011-09-05T14:08:06  <UncleVasya> The main rule: we pronones it exactly in the way we write it. Or vise versa.
2011-09-05T14:08:44  <mcstar> pronounce
2011-09-05T14:08:50  <mleise> hihi
2011-09-05T14:08:57  <mcstar> vica verse
2011-09-05T14:09:00  <UncleVasya> *pronounce
2011-09-05T14:09:12  <mcstar> versa
2011-09-05T14:09:18  <mleise> Wikipedia says you are right. Fascinating :)
2011-09-05T14:09:26  <mcstar> who is?
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2011-09-05T14:09:51  <UncleVasya> never doubt in me :)
2011-09-05T14:09:54  <mleise> you both, saying that every letter is assigned to one phonem (or whatever it is called)
2011-09-05T14:10:44  <mleise> now you just need to replace sz with ß and we have the new world language
2011-09-05T14:11:51  <mleise> legeslegmegvesztegethetetlenebbeknek <- lol
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2011-09-05T14:13:08  * mleise örül
2011-09-05T14:14:21  <mcstar> hehe
2011-09-05T14:14:29  <mcstar> sry, im havin a discussion with jmc.
2011-09-05T14:14:49  <mcstar> mleise: i hope your enthusiasm will last :)
2011-09-05T14:19:40  <mcstar> legmegszentségteleníthetetlenkedéseitekért
2011-09-05T14:20:28  <mcstar> legeslegmegszentségteleníthetetlenkedéseitekért
2011-09-05T14:24:35  <mleise> mcstar: "Tatsächlich wäre es möglich, Ungarisch wie eine Programmiersprache darzustellen, in der der Stamm den Befehl und die agglutinierten Endungen die Optionen darstellen würden." - "In fact it would be possible to describe Hungarian as a programming language, in which the base word corresponds to the command and the agglutinated post-fixes correspond to the options." :D
2011-09-05T14:24:55  <mleise> Are there many good programmers in Hungary?
2011-09-05T14:25:19  <mcstar> :D
2011-09-05T14:25:21  <mcstar> they are all bad
2011-09-05T14:25:26  <mcstar> in fact they suck
2011-09-05T14:25:43  <mcstar> i guess thats the reason one of them won the challange last year :D
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2011-09-05T14:26:07  <mleise> "the magyar (the hungarian) language is the top-product of the logic/creativity of humanity." That's a lot of praise for the language.
2011-09-05T14:26:47  <mcstar> mleise: from where did you get that?
2011-09-05T14:27:20  <mleise> That's what Ove Berglund, Swedish translator and doctor, said (Wikipedia)
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2011-09-05T14:27:35  <mcstar> ill look into that
2011-09-05T14:28:24  <mcstar> im happy to know hungarian, really, its nice, but i think if it wasnt my mother-tongue, i would never be able to learn it
2011-09-05T14:28:44  <mcstar> i can see why foreigners might have difficulty learning it
2011-09-05T14:28:46  <TheJazz> is there any problems with the Confirmation e-mail ?, i did not recive it at all not even in Junk mail. +/- 30 minutes passed
2011-09-05T14:31:06  <mcstar> TheJazz: you will never receive confirmation email till the contest is in the beta phase
2011-09-05T14:31:47  <TheJazz> ah thanks :)
2011-09-05T14:32:00  <janzert> confirmation mails should be working since the last month or so
2011-09-05T14:32:24  <mcstar> ah than sorry
2011-09-05T14:32:26  <janzert> unless the setting on the beta server got reverted
2011-09-05T14:32:36  <TheJazz> hmm
2011-09-05T14:33:33  <TheJazz> tnxs for the help :)
2011-09-05T14:33:53  <janzert> in the last day I can see that three emails have been sent and none bounced
2011-09-05T14:34:10  <janzert> although I don't know what addresses they were sent to off hand
2011-09-05T14:35:03  <TheJazz> theres no measures yet to resend the mail is there ?
2011-09-05T14:35:24  <mcstar> janzert: so activation is email-based now?
2011-09-05T14:35:35  <janzert> TheJazz: no, nothing in place yet
2011-09-05T14:35:38  <janzert> mcstar: yes
2011-09-05T14:36:44  <janzert> TheJazz: what is the account name, I can probably manually activate if the email hasn't showed up anywhere
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2011-09-05T14:42:59  <mleise> @activation
2011-09-05T14:43:00  <contestbot> mleise: activation could be done now by clicking on a link in a confirmation email.
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2011-09-05T15:01:36  <mcstar> mleise: i think some of those "experts" are exaggerating
2011-09-05T15:01:54  <mcstar> they fail to realize the greatness in their own language
2011-09-05T15:02:35  <mcstar> sometimes, you get the feeling, that something is beautilufl in a lnaguage, in a foreign language, when you come to understand something, you didnt before
2011-09-05T15:03:24  <mcstar> and you dont realize the same thing in your mother-tongue, because thats what you have known in your entire life
2011-09-05T15:03:57  <mcstar> and another thing, is that when you start repeating something, in your mother-tongue, after some time, it will seem meaningless
2011-09-05T15:04:26  <mcstar> you somehow detach the maning from the form(phonetics)
2011-09-05T15:04:54  <mcstar> well, with a foreign language that experience can never happen, because you have learn it another way
2011-09-05T15:05:06  <mcstar> learnt
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2011-09-05T16:28:23  <mcstar> gn
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2011-09-05T16:58:21  <delt0r_> sorry guys-- got really busy in the weekend... didn't finish my JAntManager
2011-09-05T16:58:28  <delt0r_> busy with parties ;)
2011-09-05T16:58:45  <delt0r_> never let anyone say your too old for parties... they never get old
2011-09-05T16:59:04  <delt0r_> but i should get  a bit of time this week
2011-09-05T16:59:15  <delt0r_> so hopefull this weekend
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2011-09-05T18:01:16  <mleise> delt0r_: you know you can't have any pudding if you don't finish JAntManager
2011-09-05T18:01:38  <mleise> (hidden pop culture reference)
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2011-09-05T18:11:29  <delt0r_> I always thought it was meatloaf
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