2011-09-25T00:10:22 *** okay| is now known as okayzed 2011-09-25T00:47:22 eashoka: arlequ1 just got close enough in rank to you that he will play you more often. since you haven't played much together, you'll get paired a little more often. 2011-09-25T00:48:06 I could probably put back in the no repeat logic to slow the pace down, and I could probably widen the range of typical matches 2011-09-25T00:48:22 personally i think maybe widen the range once the contest starts? 2011-09-25T00:48:35 i was just going to say this is probably pretty cool for ranking reasons but i also like a variety in opponents :) 2011-09-25T00:49:19 but yeah, more games against people close in the ranks is probably a good thing for getting more accurate rankings in the neighbourhood around you, although it may make it harder for a bot to climb if it has a bad start in the finals maybe? 2011-09-25T00:50:12 the big difference is he was *new* in that range of the ranks, so we pair him a bit more often with everyone else there 2011-09-25T00:51:01 for eashoka, the most often played opponent is 18 games, then it takes 21 opponents to drop to 10 games 2011-09-25T00:51:41 antimatroid: any work on multiple start maps? 2011-09-25T00:52:02 nope, got heaps of uni work at the moment 2011-09-25T00:52:07 i'll try and take a look tonight if i have time 2011-09-25T00:52:28 or when i get bored of doing assignments :) 2011-09-25T00:52:35 so, how much time do you have tonight to do ants? 2011-09-25T00:52:52 technically zero :) 2011-09-25T00:52:57 :( 2011-09-25T00:53:04 but i'll get sick of doing work at some point 2011-09-25T00:53:21 okay, I'll need your help later... 2011-09-25T00:53:31 stick around IRC for a few hours 2011-09-25T00:53:41 it's like 3 weeks before the end of classes and I have 3 classes and a thesis :\ 2011-09-25T00:53:50 when am i not on irc? :P 2011-09-25T00:53:57 if i'm at home, i'm at my computer or will be soon 2011-09-25T00:54:05 never, but sometimes your not responsive :) 2011-09-25T00:54:19 @seen j3camero 2011-09-25T00:54:19 McLeopold: j3camero was last seen in #aichallenge 13 weeks, 5 days, 1 hour, 54 minutes, and 16 seconds ago: Text me at 416 464 3096. 2011-09-25T00:54:20 yeah, it's 3pm i'll be around for hours :) 2011-09-25T00:54:26 but not that bad :) 2011-09-25T00:54:38 ok, cool 2011-09-25T00:56:20 McLeopold : tx for the detailed and very convincing explanation. :-) 2011-09-25T00:57:43 eashoka: did you get my message? 2011-09-25T00:57:52 i was late to the party and just saw it in the forums yesterday :P 2011-09-25T00:59:04 eashoka: if you look at all your games, since the last reset, you'll see opponents matchups are fairly even 2011-09-25T00:59:25 McLeopold : yea, it looks much nicer now. 2011-09-25T01:00:16 antimatroid : think I got your first msg. (about the planet wars blog post). tx. was there any other after that ? I got disconnected often and lost history 2011-09-25T01:00:37 nah sorry, just said it was a cool read :) 2011-09-25T01:01:02 i'm super keen to get zeta going once i finish uni for the year 2011-09-25T01:01:07 McLeopold: keen or are you burnt out? 2011-09-25T01:01:54 antimatroid : Tx. Hope you will have time to compete in this one. :-) 2011-09-25T01:02:30 not likely if it launches soon 2011-09-25T01:02:41 but i think that might perhaps be good considering how much input i had on the game 2011-09-25T01:07:35 antimatroid : ah no. I think most of beta testers too are now quite close in familiarity as you are. Once the input was given, approved and adopted, it become everybody's. :-) 2011-09-25T01:08:13 yeah that's the official stance 2011-09-25T01:08:34 if i did have time i would probably compete anyway, but i still have had longer than most to think about the problem 2011-09-25T01:09:04 people will complain about the beta testers, but people always find something to complain about, the more trivial the complaints the better we're doing 2011-09-25T01:11:23 antimatroid : complete new comers will have a disadvantage I agree, but I don't see how that could have been avoided. also, without ppl like you helping out, there may not have been a contest in the first place :-) BTW, you still a student .. which year ? 2011-09-25T01:11:56 doing my honours year this year 2011-09-25T01:12:04 5th year of uni, did a combined undergrad degree :P 2011-09-25T01:16:01 eashoka: what year are you in? and what are you studying? 2011-09-25T01:18:29 antimatroid: not burnt out, but will probably still to web/database and avoid compiler/worker stuff 2011-09-25T01:19:00 antimatroid: I'll be back in about 8 hours, I hope your around then. :) 2011-09-25T01:19:28 eashoka: where is your write -up of planet wars? 2011-09-25T01:19:33 should be, but not much later than that :) 2011-09-25T01:20:04 McLeopold: http://iq-games.blogspot.com/2011/02/planet-wars-my-first-ai-contest.html 2011-09-25T01:21:53 McLeopold : it had too parts, both in the same blog 2011-09-25T01:22:00 too - > two 2011-09-25T01:22:30 ohh, i think i missed the second part 2011-09-25T01:23:06 eashoka: why isn't there a link at the bottom to the second part? :P 2011-09-25T01:23:18 antimatroid : cool! so we can call you Dr animatroid in few months time I guess ;-) 2011-09-25T01:23:29 no no, honours is not a phd 2011-09-25T01:23:46 i'm contemplating starting a phd next year (if i can get funding) but that's another 3-4 years :) 2011-09-25T01:23:48 antimatroid : b'cos part 2 was not there at the time I wrote part 1 :-) actually will put a link there now. tx 2011-09-25T01:24:10 amstan: ping 2011-09-25T01:24:32 in australia people usually do a 3 year undergrad degree, a 1 year honours degree and then a phd, but my undergrad was 4 years because i did a combined degre 2011-09-25T01:25:06 contestbot: later tell amstan any chance you could get Jeff to come by Monday evening for a meeting? 2011-09-25T01:25:06 janzert: Job's done. 2011-09-25T01:27:01 eashoka: in the second part you have an "invented" which should be "invested" 2011-09-25T01:27:08 not sure if typo or language mistake :) 2011-09-25T01:27:22 /s/ed/ing 2011-09-25T01:27:31 investing that is 2011-09-25T01:28:37 eashoka: the additional main thing i had was redirected moves, if i was sending ships to a neutral or enemy but could redirect them to one of my plants and get them to the destination planet before i expected to actually take the planet then i would 2011-09-25T01:28:56 which gave you the opportunity to use such fleets elsewhere sooner if necessary but still use them for their intended purpose if that was still optimal 2011-09-25T01:29:21 plus my game tree (which was horribly broken) for trying to work out what offensive moves to make 2011-09-25T01:30:33 u did a min-max tree ? 2011-09-25T01:31:34 antimatroid : for your options against opponents possible replies... ? hmm I never got to that point. 2011-09-25T01:31:47 i did, but what i submitted was horribly broken 2011-09-25T01:32:00 still worked alright though, i don't think my rank would have improved if it wasn't broken 2011-09-25T01:32:15 my way of working out what moves to consider was extremely inefficient 2011-09-25T01:32:24 minimax trees worked wonderfully for tron 2011-09-25T01:34:17 antimatroid : I relied on calculations. amount of fleets I can gather in the long run, amount of reinforcements, time the fleets take to travel, impact from growth etc and then produced a big equation which I could use to determine any planet can be taken or not. 2011-09-25T01:35:46 antimatroid : then I used that against all enemy planets taking the nearer ones first and if it seemed ok for any planet. I would trigger. which worked out pretty decently.... 2011-09-25T01:50:19 antimatroid : corrected the things you pointed out. Tx 2011-09-25T02:55:50 *** Palmik has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T03:12:03 *** UncleVasya has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T03:13:41 Hi amstan. Do you have a time to discuss some forum stuff? 2011-09-25T03:21:26 *** _flag <_flag!~flag@69-165-173-172.dsl.teksavvy.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2011-09-25T03:21:32 *** ChrisH has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T03:22:26 does anyone know how the contest manager selects maps for each game? 2011-09-25T03:23:21 *** ChrisH has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-09-25T04:21:17 *** UncleVasya has quit IRC () 2011-09-25T04:26:58 *** sigh has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-09-25T04:46:40 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T05:12:27 the whole night my syslog-ng used up a core for a 100% and produced two 2.5GB logs 2011-09-25T05:14:45 *** Blkt has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T05:16:35 good day eveyone 2011-09-25T05:27:43 heres a tricky question: my root partition is 23GB, it was full, i deleted ~11GB files from it, and now i have 2.9GB free space 2011-09-25T05:28:22 mcstar: lots of bad parts on the disc? 2011-09-25T05:28:31 i don't know much about that kind of stuff though :P 2011-09-25T05:28:39 "bad parts"? 2011-09-25T05:28:45 bad sectors or whatever 2011-09-25T05:28:55 no, its healthy 2011-09-25T05:28:59 and that wouldnt matter 2011-09-25T05:29:18 oh wait, yeah i misread 2011-09-25T05:29:19 hmmm :P 2011-09-25T05:29:56 i think there was some hidden data-sharing going on, or simply it kept a big chunk in memory 2011-09-25T05:33:27 *** detryo has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T05:33:44 *** ibdknox has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-09-25T05:34:17 *** ibdknox has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T05:34:56 *** UncleVasya has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T05:38:53 *** ibdknox has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-09-25T05:39:20 *** UncleVasya has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2011-09-25T05:42:30 *** UncleVasya has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T05:44:51 *** berak has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T05:45:00 *** Blkt` has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T05:46:23 *** Blkt has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2011-09-25T05:48:44 antimatroid, again :) 2011-09-25T05:48:48 http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1468 2011-09-25T05:48:57 http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1469 2011-09-25T05:49:02 http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1470 2011-09-25T05:49:09 http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1471 2011-09-25T05:51:18 *** mcstar has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5) 2011-09-25T05:51:35 *** mcstar has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T05:52:40 i totally agree with rangong5652 2011-09-25T05:53:16 UncleVasya: have you actually seen those sweet coats? 2011-09-25T05:53:44 UncleVasya: fixed :) 2011-09-25T05:54:10 mcstar: no :( 2011-09-25T05:54:26 if i were a woman i would totally wear this: http://www.bestbootsonsale.com/shows/48598.html 2011-09-25T05:55:09 i got a kickass gore tex north face jacket of ebay for $50 (with postage) recently brand new 2011-09-25T05:55:24 the person i got it from is no longer an ebay user :\ 2011-09-25T05:55:32 i'm pretty sure it's not fake as well :\ 2011-09-25T05:55:50 yeah, the store isnt, but the spam is 2011-09-25T05:56:03 well, not fake just unsolicited 2011-09-25T05:56:03 (they had multiple sizes and colours too, it wasn't just something someone didn't want) 2011-09-25T05:56:18 yeah, spam is not wanted, just pointing out my awesome ebay purchase :P 2011-09-25T05:56:18 i have a north face baseball hat 2011-09-25T05:56:55 i had a head injury, and i had a couple of stitches, so i bought the hat, but i didnt wear since than 2011-09-25T05:57:46 antimatroid: you should have billed the store instead of deleting the "ad" 2011-09-25T05:58:00 we could have had a couple more EC2's 2011-09-25T05:58:16 lol good luck with that 2011-09-25T05:58:21 :) 2011-09-25T06:00:53 gore-tex was invented in 1976, but i only heard it recently, maybe ~5 years ago 2011-09-25T06:01:02 about it* 2011-09-25T06:01:29 antimatroid: One theme is till exists: http://ai-contest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1468 2011-09-25T06:03:55 i don't know what you're talking about ;) 2011-09-25T06:05:34 *** eashoka has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-09-25T06:05:37 The requested topic does not exist. 2011-09-25T06:05:43 UncleVasya: you must have been mistaken 2011-09-25T06:06:28 mcstar: Did ypu participiate PW? 2011-09-25T06:06:36 yelp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frobenius_theorem_(real_division_algebras) 2011-09-25T06:06:46 thankfully i only need to use that and not prove it :P 2011-09-25T06:06:50 no, i wasnt a pirate 2011-09-25T06:07:10 it should totally have been called pirate wars 2011-09-25T06:07:27 lol, do you know why did i say that? 2011-09-25T06:07:33 i believe there's a 3d game like planet wars along those lines? 2011-09-25T06:07:37 why? Because of knapsack? 2011-09-25T06:07:39 i was just reminded of someone mentioning it in here 2011-09-25T06:07:42 yes galcon 2011-09-25T06:07:47 no, no 2011-09-25T06:07:54 a 3d game that is actually on ships with islands etc. 2011-09-25T06:08:28 now i know what knapsack is 2011-09-25T06:08:48 theres an image on the forum, on the left-top side 2011-09-25T06:09:02 that guy looks like a cyber-pirate 2011-09-25T06:09:05 knapsack's just a dp problem 2011-09-25T06:09:16 dp? 2011-09-25T06:09:22 double precision 2011-09-25T06:09:24 dynamic programming 2011-09-25T06:09:28 :) 2011-09-25T06:09:29 damn, close 2011-09-25T06:09:44 ah i see 2011-09-25T06:09:49 the Knapsack Problem 2011-09-25T06:10:05 i read about it when i researched perfect matching 2011-09-25T06:10:30 so, dont you agree withme on the pirate guy? 2011-09-25T06:10:40 link me 2011-09-25T06:10:50 lol 2011-09-25T06:10:57 the page that UncleVasya linked 2011-09-25T06:10:59 all of them 2011-09-25T06:11:11 the guy ni the purple coíat 2011-09-25T06:11:13 coat 2011-09-25T06:11:46 i just see a girl in a coat :\ 2011-09-25T06:11:48 so confused 2011-09-25T06:12:00 is that a girl? 2011-09-25T06:12:17 http://ai-contest.com/forum/styles/prosilver/imageset/logo_blank.png 2011-09-25T06:12:19 pretty sure we're looking at different images 2011-09-25T06:12:30 *** arlequ1 has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T06:12:30 there we go, i don't get pirate from that though? 2011-09-25T06:12:43 one eye is covered? 2011-09-25T06:12:55 and its like a cyberpirate 2011-09-25T06:13:02 and it takes your space... 2011-09-25T06:13:06 its clear to me 2011-09-25T06:13:12 antimatroid: do you think that is a girl? 2011-09-25T06:14:06 no, i thought you meant the spam site :P 2011-09-25T06:14:41 ah 2011-09-25T06:15:18 All your planet are belong to us! 2011-09-25T06:15:25 is that sentence grammatically correct? 2011-09-25T06:15:39 yes (no) 2011-09-25T06:15:49 i want to say yes, but the answer is no :P 2011-09-25T06:15:53 is how you should read that 2011-09-25T06:16:10 so its broken for the funny effect of it 2011-09-25T06:16:13 right? 2011-09-25T06:16:16 i can appreciate that 2011-09-25T06:16:23 i'm not sure where it originally came from, but yeah 2011-09-25T06:16:26 *** eashoka has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T06:16:34 it comes from an old japanese game 2011-09-25T06:16:46 that makes sense 2011-09-25T06:16:50 a shooting game, whom english traduction was horrible 2011-09-25T06:16:50 arlequ1: but its in english 2011-09-25T06:16:57 old japanese people dont know english 2011-09-25T06:17:03 i love it when translations accidentally the whole thing 2011-09-25T06:17:38 *** Kingpin13 has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T06:18:02 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_Wing 2011-09-25T06:18:33 the game is zero wing, and the famous sentence is "all you base a re belong to us" 2011-09-25T06:18:56 i recently got bored and installed zsnes to play super mario world 2011-09-25T06:19:06 i finished every level in the game within a week, love that game :) 2011-09-25T06:19:13 (i checked online to make sure i found every level :P) 2011-09-25T06:19:43 arlequ1: thx 2011-09-25T06:19:46 antimatroid: Did you saw a Mario AI competition? 2011-09-25T06:19:53 yeah, i prefer games though 2011-09-25T06:19:58 but its from 1991, not that old, lol 2011-09-25T06:20:03 1 player is more of a decision problem than a game 2011-09-25T06:20:35 i would love to do an ai game with weapons like mario kart 2011-09-25T06:20:38 that would be sweet 2011-09-25T06:21:40 antimatroid: have you seen battlecode? mleise showed me 2011-09-25T06:21:49 yeah it's all java :( 2011-09-25T06:21:50 its quite sophisticated, mit does it 2011-09-25T06:22:03 so? 2011-09-25T06:22:10 some of the planet wars competitors tried to put a team together, not sure if they ever got going 2011-09-25T06:22:22 i have an irrational hate of java and refuse to touch it, you don't know this? :P 2011-09-25T06:22:24 i guess its a considerably bigger investment 2011-09-25T06:22:41 antimatroid: thats an oximoron 2011-09-25T06:22:51 what is? 2011-09-25T06:22:53 why do you "touch" c++ regularly? 2011-09-25T06:23:06 c++ is lovely 2011-09-25T06:23:11 pfff 2011-09-25T06:23:14 they are the same 2011-09-25T06:23:17 as if 2011-09-25T06:23:24 c++ has xxx overloading 2011-09-25T06:23:42 lol, you always come with this operator overloading stuff 2011-09-25T06:23:47 and doesn't require me to remember a bunch of crap just to write a program, like main string blargs 2011-09-25T06:23:48 it matters not, younf padavan 2011-09-25T06:23:51 g* 2011-09-25T06:24:01 it does when you write stuff that uses operators like matrices 2011-09-25T06:24:24 lets just say, infix notation id broken from the start 2011-09-25T06:24:33 is* 2011-09-25T06:24:37 compare 2011-09-25T06:24:37 A = B*(C+D^2) 2011-09-25T06:24:37 to 2011-09-25T06:24:37 A = multiply(sum(C, power(D, 2))) 2011-09-25T06:24:59 (* (+ c (^ d 2))) 2011-09-25T06:25:09 i don't mind infix notation, i wish i could overload pre/in/post fix of an operation and its precedence 2011-09-25T06:25:20 i'm a mathematician, I want infix :P 2011-09-25T06:25:27 what do you multiple with exactly? 2011-09-25T06:25:52 tiply* 2011-09-25T06:26:10 multiply what? 2011-09-25T06:26:25 I've noticed that not-c++ programmers are mostly loyal for non-their languages. But c++ programmers hate all other languages :) 2011-09-25T06:26:25 multiply(sum(C, power(D, 2))) 2011-09-25T06:26:38 wheres the other term? 2011-09-25T06:26:47 it defaults to identity i guess 2011-09-25T06:26:48 oh, multiple(A, sum(C, power(D, 2)) 2011-09-25T06:26:55 err, B 2011-09-25T06:26:59 yeah 2011-09-25T06:27:00 look at my first expression 2011-09-25T06:27:03 i know 2011-09-25T06:27:03 see, the java way sucks! 2011-09-25T06:27:07 point proven :P 2011-09-25T06:27:07 im just being 2011-09-25T06:27:10 ____ 2011-09-25T06:27:52 i already have to do A = B*(C^2) because * precedes ^ :( 2011-09-25T06:27:56 i don't like that 2011-09-25T06:27:59 UncleVasya: they have invested a lot to use that broken thing, so they refuse to think in another language 2011-09-25T06:28:00 it keeps me up at night :P 2011-09-25T06:29:34 the truth is that i really dont know why are you using c++, i think you would certainly benefit from a more dynamic approach 2011-09-25T06:29:42 i dont want to convert you or anything 2011-09-25T06:30:34 eventually i expect to move to something like haskell, scheme or lisp but i still prefer c++'s syntax and haven't learnt them yet 2011-09-25T06:30:50 i know that c++ would almost certainly not fit my development style, i only use c/c++ when i NEED to, for example driving the gpu, but otherwise... 2011-09-25T06:31:04 but i haven't ruled out working in algorithmic trading, so c++ knowledge would be helpful for that 2011-09-25T06:31:40 if you know exactly what you want to code, and you are happy with imperative style, sure 2011-09-25T06:31:58 *** nplus has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-09-25T06:32:03 i only program up small fun problems too 2011-09-25T06:32:21 so i don't really have to worry about what libraries etc. are available, as i like to reinvent the wheel myself anyway 2011-09-25T06:32:52 i hope your wheels are becoming more and more circular 2011-09-25T06:33:32 no, I just design my roads appropriately :) 2011-09-25T06:33:54 who needs turning right? 2011-09-25T06:33:55 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_your_base_are_belong_to_us 2011-09-25T06:34:06 read the other quotes, they are even funnier 2011-09-25T06:35:30 it probably also help that base are isn't that different to bases 2011-09-25T06:35:34 when spoken aloud 2011-09-25T06:44:29 antimatroid : Lunus Torvlads on c++ http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/linus :-) 2011-09-25T06:45:14 heh heh typical of me! Lunus -> Linus 2011-09-25T06:45:49 torvalds 2011-09-25T06:46:00 *** needsch has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T06:47:16 antimatroid: "because * precedes ^" since when? 2011-09-25T06:47:24 for your overloaded types? 2011-09-25T06:47:31 because not for numbers 2011-09-25T06:47:41 ^ takes precedence 2011-09-25T06:49:51 *** needsch has left #aichallenge 2011-09-25T06:50:18 mcstar: when i've overloaded them for matrix structs i've always had to add the brackets to get the right order :\ 2011-09-25T06:51:33 i see 2011-09-25T06:51:39 eashoka: thx for the article 2011-09-25T06:52:01 its always good to read the ranting torvalds 2011-09-25T06:53:24 linus can lick my balls :P 2011-09-25T06:55:27 antimatroid : ha ha. strong reactions! :-) 2011-09-25T06:55:42 :) 2011-09-25T06:55:50 i would definitely shave them before 2011-09-25T06:56:10 i mean, i dont want him to spit hair 2011-09-25T06:56:41 my life would be totally different if he didnt exist 2011-09-25T06:57:03 most of my software probably wouldn't exist 2011-09-25T06:57:06 i'll give him that 2011-09-25T06:57:13 but there'd be alternatives 2011-09-25T06:57:24 actually I don't like java even though that's the main language I have done most of my stuff. One of these I'm going to learn Lisp and program in proper way. 2011-09-25T06:57:33 you know, i spent soo much time in my first couple of uni. years messing with linux 2011-09-25T06:57:42 i could have been somebodym if linux didnt exist 2011-09-25T06:58:04 i had to use a command line a bit for uni but not much, only just installed ubuntu earlier this year 2011-09-25T06:58:11 eashoka: why dont you try clojure? 2011-09-25T06:58:17 so i'm still a bit of a newb, but a newb with a bit of an idea 2011-09-25T06:58:44 antimatroid: linux become much better in recent years 2011-09-25T06:58:55 mcstar : yea I was wondering abt that since you have mentioned it few times now :-) is it a Lisp variant like Arc or ? 2011-09-25T06:58:56 *** detryo has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2011-09-25T06:58:58 back then, when i tried using it, there always was trouble with something 2011-09-25T06:59:04 *** detryo has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T06:59:20 eashoka: it is a Lisp variant 2011-09-25T06:59:30 there are several, common lisp, arc, scheme... 2011-09-25T06:59:53 so its noa compatible lisp with any of the previously existed ones 2011-09-25T06:59:56 not a* 2011-09-25T07:00:21 but that gave rich hickey some space, to design a truly remarkable thing 2011-09-25T07:00:52 and if you already know java, it can only get better 2011-09-25T07:01:00 so go for it 2011-09-25T07:01:34 Arc is Paul Graham's pet isn't it ? I was thinking about giving that a try first but since you have so much praises about clojour..... 2011-09-25T07:01:44 clojure 2011-09-25T07:01:55 :-) 2011-09-25T07:01:58 i letter makes a difference 2011-09-25T07:02:09 several letters, can change the world 2011-09-25T07:02:10 :) 2011-09-25T07:02:14 i->1 2011-09-25T07:02:39 i dont recommend arc 2011-09-25T07:02:41 at all 2011-09-25T07:02:56 if you want something that really can be used, that is common lisp 2011-09-25T07:03:16 has several implementations, they all have a strong point 2011-09-25T07:03:33 i'm surprised there isn't a linux distro that just has emacs 2011-09-25T07:03:35 if you want scheme i recommend dr.racket 2011-09-25T07:03:37 like you start up to emacs 2011-09-25T07:04:08 if someone ask you to describe the pluses of clojure (against other Lisp variants) in one sentence, what would that be ? 2011-09-25T07:04:19 i think thats the next step in GNU's evolution 2011-09-25T07:04:24 they aready have a GNU kernel 2011-09-25T07:04:27 the Hurd 2011-09-25T07:04:41 maybe it will come with emacs exclusive mode 2011-09-25T07:04:53 antimatroid : I guess I'm not geek enough to love emacs or vi. I like IntelliJ much better :-) 2011-09-25T07:05:08 eashoka: you should start using emacs right away 2011-09-25T07:05:20 even more so if you want to have anything to do with a lisp 2011-09-25T07:06:10 eashoka: i don't use either myself :P but it would be funny 2011-09-25T07:06:33 answer: clojure is one of the most recent lisps, and has a unique, and distilled perspective, and fits well with java 2011-09-25T07:06:40 you really cannot go wrong 2011-09-25T07:07:00 eashoka: are you still mistaking clojure as an operating system? it's a programming language 2011-09-25T07:07:05 or am i retarded? 2011-09-25T07:07:08 yes 2011-09-25T07:07:15 he knows what clojure is 2011-09-25T07:07:56 i thought he was mistaking it as an os :P i'll shhh up 2011-09-25T07:08:09 mcstar : that's a pretty convincing one liner. u should be in the marketing business 2011-09-25T07:08:28 lol 2011-09-25T07:08:37 i hate money 2011-09-25T07:09:44 antimatroid : I have permanently switched from windows to Ubuntu about a year back and have no intentions going back. However the one I most liked was mac OS but I don't have a macbook anymore. 2011-09-25T07:10:18 eashoka: i was in noman's land too for quite some time 2011-09-25T07:10:25 i didn't like mac, but i only ever had locked down ibooks from year 7-12 2011-09-25T07:10:26 until i decided i could live without windows 2011-09-25T07:10:33 its really a terrible experience 2011-09-25T07:11:35 mcstar : no man's :-) 2011-09-25T07:11:45 i was installing osx for several years on the pc 2011-09-25T07:11:59 there was always something that sucked, and its not a tenable position 2011-09-25T07:12:05 so i abandoned that too 2011-09-25T07:12:12 yea life is too short to waste on windows. 2011-09-25T07:12:21 (i could have been characterized as an os nerd) 2011-09-25T07:12:35 i tried beos too 2011-09-25T07:12:57 i was on the quest to find the perfect os 2011-09-25T07:13:03 (sooo stupid, looking back) 2011-09-25T07:13:29 haters gonna hate, i really liked xp 2011-09-25T07:13:38 they ruined minesweeper for starters, that's just not acceptable 2011-09-25T07:13:58 mac OS is pretty neat(when they come with proper hardware) actually and so are the new line of desktops and macbooks. 2011-09-25T07:13:58 *** detryo has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-09-25T07:14:34 antimatroid : I liked XP too, vista just ruined it for MS. I havn't got a time to try win 7 2011-09-25T07:14:44 +1 for xp 2011-09-25T07:14:47 great system 2011-09-25T07:14:58 and office 2007's menu system can go die in a fire 2011-09-25T07:15:20 (of course i could never ever use windows again as my personal os) 2011-09-25T07:15:22 who knows, may be Chrome would be leading all. heard chrome laptops are about to go on sale.... 2011-09-25T07:15:37 i do wish google would do an os :( 2011-09-25T07:15:43 it has 2011-09-25T07:15:45 they have! 2011-09-25T07:15:49 a decent one? 2011-09-25T07:15:56 not for desktop 2011-09-25T07:15:59 well 2011-09-25T07:16:01 Chrome, just about to get launched. 2011-09-25T07:16:05 i only own a desktop :P 2011-09-25T07:16:05 its a browser based 2011-09-25T07:16:20 i don't even own a mobile phone :P 2011-09-25T07:16:26 anyway, it surely sucks 2011-09-25T07:16:27 been without one of those for like 2.5 years 2011-09-25T07:16:43 animatroid : that's a bliss :-) 2011-09-25T07:16:49 thats bs. 2011-09-25T07:17:07 I wish I can stay w/o a mobile phone :-) 2011-09-25T07:17:22 i certainly dont use it, but i couldnt live withoout it 2011-09-25T07:17:33 me neither 2011-09-25T07:17:44 i want the possibility to call anyone at any time, even if i dont do it 2011-09-25T07:18:03 and of course noone can call me, cause its constantly turned off 2011-09-25T07:19:34 anyway, when someone starts to use its pc for work, or to get things done, he realizes that only one os can live up to that 2011-09-25T07:20:25 one thing, that im really proud of, is that i stopped looking for better looking gui, and im satisfied with minimal theming and a tiling wm now 2011-09-25T07:20:41 since april, this year i think 2011-09-25T07:20:48 its a big achievment for me 2011-09-25T07:21:05 its like quiting drinking 2011-09-25T07:22:23 antimatroid: is that doubly continuous tense correct? 2011-09-25T07:23:18 doubly continuous tense what? 2011-09-25T07:23:25 i hate lots of gui stuff, it's awful 2011-09-25T07:23:37 i had xp on windows classic always 2011-09-25T07:23:57 is "quiting drinking" correct? 2011-09-25T07:24:03 it sounds wrongful 2011-09-25T07:24:29 *** Blkt` has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2011-09-25T07:27:09 quit drinking i think 2011-09-25T07:27:44 that's not a phrase australians understand 2011-09-25T07:28:02 exactly. why would someone want to do that ? :-) 2011-09-25T07:28:17 antimatroid: the whole sentence is: it's like quiting drinking 2011-09-25T07:28:28 the first one has to be continuous i think 2011-09-25T07:28:42 oh yeah, hmmm whatever :P 2011-09-25T07:28:47 i'm not very good at english 2011-09-25T07:28:51 http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/I_did_it_for_you_all 2011-09-25T07:29:04 please read this, even better than torvald's 2011-09-25T07:29:20 thx for the link eashoka great articles 2011-09-25T07:29:36 np 2011-09-25T07:29:43 *** delt0r_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-09-25T07:30:23 actually think it is correct analogy quit drinking -> change from windows to linux. both improves the productivity :-) 2011-09-25T07:31:13 :D 2011-09-25T07:34:31 than i just won the jackpot 2011-09-25T07:34:49 lol, that aticle is a joy to read 2011-09-25T07:38:00 yep a classic! and it mentions about operator overloading as well (hoping to draw another strong reaction from antimatroid) :-) 2011-09-25T07:38:17 well, i was hoping he reads it himself 2011-09-25T07:38:46 anyway, his projects arent yet big enough for that to matetr 2011-09-25T07:41:29 *** delt0r_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T07:53:39 *** eashoka_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T07:55:34 *** eashoka has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-09-25T08:02:18 i guess he didnt read it 2011-09-25T08:02:33 antimatroid: have you looked at that article? 2011-09-25T08:02:53 haha 2011-09-25T08:03:26 eashoka_: theres a common thing between what i do, and that page's recommendations: i prefer tmux over screen 2011-09-25T08:05:36 I got disconnected and lost some history ... 2011-09-25T08:05:58 tmux ? 2011-09-25T08:07:58 you know what screen is? 2011-09-25T08:11:59 *** mceier has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T08:14:51 *** UncleVasya has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2011-09-25T08:18:34 *** onensora has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T08:21:28 Saying that Java is good because it works on all platforms is like saying anal sex is good because it works on all genders. 2011-09-25T08:21:54 Yay, inflammatory arguments! 2011-09-25T08:22:39 :) not my own words obviously 2011-09-25T08:26:02 Oh, it can be fun to see how many programming language zealots you can get angry in five minutes. Not going to right now, though. 2011-09-25T08:27:47 *** olexs has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T08:33:59 wow, workers have gone super slow again .... are we in the production servers now ? 2011-09-25T08:41:37 guess the elastic cloud gonna stretch a bit in couple of days and everything will be fine :-) 2011-09-25T08:58:25 *** Keth_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T08:58:25 *** Keth has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-09-25T09:23:49 *** UncleVasya has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T09:36:39 *** Akranis has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T09:43:23 *** patrisk has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T09:43:33 eashoka_: here you go: http://humorix.org/10016 2011-09-25T09:59:03 mcstar : would have made a nice theonion.com article. 2011-09-25T10:14:24 *** ChrisH has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T10:18:56 *** eashoka_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-09-25T10:20:50 *** ChrisH has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-09-25T10:25:00 *** eashoka has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T10:25:53 *** sigh has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-09-25T10:32:55 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T10:34:28 *** Blkt has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T10:38:47 One thing I don't like about Python is that I want to have one class per file, but in Python that causes it to have its own module, which I don't want. 2011-09-25T10:39:10 Is there some non-hack way to avoid this, or is one file per module the Python way? (Pretty sure it's the latter.) 2011-09-25T10:39:24 I don't want to import myorg.mymodule.mysubmodule.myclass.MyClass. 2011-09-25T10:40:09 And yeah, I know about using __init__.py, but that seems like the wrong thing to do. Mmm. 2011-09-25T10:43:47 *** sigh has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-09-25T10:44:15 what do you expect from a language where you have to use self. to access the current class's namespace? 2011-09-25T10:44:48 i don't know python well which probably helps my opinion, but i think it's crappy 2011-09-25T10:45:02 it does make programming easy, but i don't like it :P 2011-09-25T10:45:50 antimatroid: did you read what strawsoup said of c++? 2011-09-25T10:47:59 I kind of want to use Java, but I might end up regretting that as well. 2011-09-25T10:49:13 jbroman: for what? 2011-09-25T10:50:30 mcstar: Heh. Poking at Zeta again. I want to do things that I'm used to doing in Java. 2011-09-25T10:50:51 But I'm sure even with my own concerns aside, using Java for that would make some unhappy, so I won't. 2011-09-25T10:51:34 mcstar: yeah i read most of it 2011-09-25T10:51:48 sorry, been busy doing topology and ring theory assignments :\ 2011-09-25T10:51:59 antimatroid: its weird and funny 2011-09-25T10:52:18 i thought it a hoax, but not really sure 2011-09-25T10:52:23 I can't stand 'elif' 2011-09-25T10:52:28 Just use 'else if' goddamnit! 2011-09-25T10:52:42 patrisk: why not use cond? 2011-09-25T10:52:52 cond? 2011-09-25T10:52:54 "If Java had true garbage collection, most programs would delete themselves upon execution" :D 2011-09-25T10:53:01 yes, its the only sane conditional 2011-09-25T10:53:13 good one :D 2011-09-25T10:53:15 I'm very new to python so I don't know what cond is 2011-09-25T10:53:22 patrisk: He's talking about Lisp. 2011-09-25T10:53:27 I thought so 2011-09-25T10:53:39 i mentioned the word "sane" 2011-09-25T10:53:45 Wasn't sure if python had stolen it or something 2011-09-25T10:53:51 so it must be clear that im talking about lisp 2011-09-25T10:53:55 mcstar: )))))))))))))))))))))) 2011-09-25T10:53:57 Am I sane yet? 2011-09-25T10:54:12 one good choice all it takes 2011-09-25T10:54:22 That's terrible, jbroman, it's not even iterative 2011-09-25T10:55:16 jbroman: parens are the best part 2011-09-25T10:55:41 i used python for a couple of days this week 2011-09-25T10:55:51 i had trouble matching parens 2011-09-25T10:56:17 im used to slime/emacs, it highlights parens very well, and the python editor didnt 2011-09-25T10:56:44 and its harder to match python parens than lisp's 2011-09-25T10:56:47 That's a shortcoming of the editor, not the language. 2011-09-25T10:57:03 no, i can better match lisp parens even if it isnt highlighted 2011-09-25T10:57:20 Also, in Python you should not end up with more than, oh, three levels of parentheses on a regular basis. 2011-09-25T10:57:35 (Exceptions for certain problem domains.) 2011-09-25T10:57:44 for example function calls 2011-09-25T10:57:59 thats a "problem doamin" with many parens 2011-09-25T10:57:59 Yeah, but you shouldn't be nesting function calls that deep in my humble opinion. 2011-09-25T10:58:03 That's what variables are for. 2011-09-25T10:58:07 pfff 2011-09-25T10:58:11 :) 2011-09-25T10:58:23 i want nameless variables 2011-09-25T10:58:33 lambda-variables lol 2011-09-25T10:58:34 foo(bar(baz(4+(2*4), 5), qux(a))) 2011-09-25T10:59:06 This is about the limit. Naming things gives you clarity anyways. 2011-09-25T10:59:28 Java believes this a little too much, so that you get to name things four or five times. 2011-09-25T10:59:50 im not sure how 2011-09-25T10:59:59 how to which? 2011-09-25T11:00:12 how can one name things four or five times? 2011-09-25T11:00:25 mcstar: I mean repeating the name a lot. Hold on, example forthcoming. 2011-09-25T11:02:31 https://gist.github.com/1240690 2011-09-25T11:02:41 Count the number of occurrences of [Bb]ananaFactory 2011-09-25T11:02:53 This is a common idiom. 2011-09-25T11:03:42 *** Eruonen has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T11:04:03 jeremy banana roman? 2011-09-25T11:04:19 No, not my middle name. 2011-09-25T11:04:24 Alas. 2011-09-25T11:05:25 Anyhow, I am getting used to the nice ability of strong typing to find bugs and enforce consistency. Verbose consistency, but consistency nonetheless. 2011-09-25T11:05:29 *** onensora has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2011-09-25T11:05:39 so its a class that initializes its variables? 2011-09-25T11:05:52 mcstar: Imagine some useful methods defined below. 2011-09-25T11:06:02 The constructor simple initializes its instance variables. 2011-09-25T11:07:47 (make-instance 'repetition :banana-factory banana-factory) 2011-09-25T11:08:16 of course you need a class definition which i wont provide here 2011-09-25T11:09:27 i guess it wasnt a bad choice to write the contest's framework in python 2011-09-25T11:09:58 The nice thing about Java is the ability to strictly define discrete components and the interfaces between them. 2011-09-25T11:10:07 but from what you said, it seems you have a bad feeling about this 2011-09-25T11:10:10 Python doesn't enforce that sort of thing, so you must assume the programmers will. 2011-09-25T11:10:34 This may be due, in part, to my Java-indoctrination at my employer. But I do see the benefits of it. 2011-09-25T11:10:59 yeah, well i dont even know what those can be 2011-09-25T11:11:09 *** xathis has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T11:11:15 "component interfaces" 2011-09-25T11:11:23 A large system has parts. 2011-09-25T11:11:30 You define how the parts must interact. 2011-09-25T11:11:45 Then you can worry about implementing each part without worrying about the implementation of each other part. 2011-09-25T11:11:46 i guess i know what you mean, just dont know why would it be different in java tna in python 2011-09-25T11:11:54 Strong typing, mostly. 2011-09-25T11:11:58 from my perspective these languages are all the same 2011-09-25T11:12:21 Java will ensure that you cannot possibly put the wrong thing somewhere, call a method that isn't appropriate, etc. 2011-09-25T11:12:28 Python will not (until runtime, maybe). 2011-09-25T11:12:55 This does make Python easier to develop quickly in, but at scale it can cause problems if the developers are not in sync with one another. 2011-09-25T11:13:28 It's harder to know what you can change without breaking other things. 2011-09-25T11:13:33 so you basically saying you lack a compiler? 2011-09-25T11:13:40 that does these checks before runtime? 2011-09-25T11:13:53 Yeah, Python doesn't provide the information necessary to do this kind of static analysis. 2011-09-25T11:14:02 (Which is typically done at compile time, but need not be.) 2011-09-25T11:14:24 Unit tests help, but they are not the same thing exactly. 2011-09-25T11:14:28 what about keyword arguemnts, and documenting them? 2011-09-25T11:14:56 I'm not denying that you can accomplish any task with Python that you can with Java, or C#, or C, or … 2011-09-25T11:15:00 (i just realized this week, that i cant assign variables in a funtion call) 2011-09-25T11:15:03 But documentation often falls out of date. 2011-09-25T11:15:04 fun(a=b) 2011-09-25T11:15:34 Whereas the compiler always knows what the code actually requires, as opposed to what it required a year ago. 2011-09-25T11:15:53 that doesnt guarantee any more correctness 2011-09-25T11:16:07 it just filters obvious errors 2011-09-25T11:16:07 It doesn't guarantee absolute correctness, but it helps. 2011-09-25T11:16:38 i think after you work for some time with a dynamic type system, you get used to it 2011-09-25T11:16:45 I *have*. 2011-09-25T11:16:50 I've written much more Ruby than I have Java. 2011-09-25T11:16:50 but thats mostly bs from my part 2011-09-25T11:16:57 You can absolutely get stuff done in both. 2011-09-25T11:17:10 I'm just saying that strong typing isn't the slavedriver some make it out to be. 2011-09-25T11:17:15 so? do you make more errors in ruby regularly than in java? 2011-09-25T11:17:45 I make errors more frequently in Java (mostly newbie stuff), but I find that the compiler catches a lot of them right away. 2011-09-25T11:18:26 The existence of interfaces, for instance, helps solidify which methods should be called in a particular use case, and which should be left as implementation details. 2011-09-25T11:18:42 now imagine how hard was it for me to learn common lisp, which obviously has a dynamic type system, with a broken debugger(basically empty backtrces) 2011-09-25T11:19:36 so "interfaces" are just calling conventions 2011-09-25T11:19:45 Yeah. 2011-09-25T11:19:50 fancy word for it 2011-09-25T11:19:52 They define the set of methods you can call on some class. 2011-09-25T11:20:26 clojure has a nice method dispatch system, which meant to improve even on CLOS 2011-09-25T11:20:45 (i only heard about it) 2011-09-25T11:22:55 *** UncleVasya has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2011-09-25T11:48:28 *** nplus has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T11:54:29 jbroman: why are you using zsh? 2011-09-25T12:02:00 mcstar: Because it's nice, and I like some of its features? 2011-09-25T12:02:12 Mostly the same as bash, but there are some things I'm used to. 2011-09-25T12:02:22 Like expanding /u/l/b[tab] to /usr/local/bin 2011-09-25T12:03:01 thats why im asking, if its better or something 2011-09-25T12:03:15 I think there are articles with more detail. 2011-09-25T12:03:32 I also have a right prompt and some extra completion set up, but I think that's available in bash, too. 2011-09-25T12:03:46 well, you are using it, and its not the default shell, so i thought you can give me the bigger highlights 2011-09-25T12:03:50 Oh, variables are automatically available as named directories. 2011-09-25T12:04:08 So I have dev=~/Development, so I can use ~dev instead. 2011-09-25T12:04:32 Not completely different from just using $dev, but the shell prompt abbreviates it like that as well. 2011-09-25T12:04:51 Um…I don't think bash has deep globbing either. 2011-09-25T12:04:59 rm **/*.log and such 2011-09-25T12:05:06 so pwd gives you ~dev/stuff 2011-09-25T12:05:35 i have to look up globbing 2011-09-25T12:05:41 pwd gives you full path, but the shell prompt gives you ~dev/stuff, in the same way it would say ~/Pictures instead of /Users/jeremy/Pictures 2011-09-25T12:05:54 *** dvladim has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T12:06:05 I think it also does some array variable stuff bash doesn't. 2011-09-25T12:06:25 bash has arrays, i used them before 2011-09-25T12:08:22 Also implicit cd can be nice. 2011-09-25T12:08:33 whats that? 2011-09-25T12:08:36 If you just give the name of a directory without a command, it acts as if you used cd. 2011-09-25T12:08:46 Kinda nice shortcut on occasion, not that "cd" is that long to type. 2011-09-25T12:08:57 i have .. for cd .. 2011-09-25T12:09:16 Yeah, zsh does that implicitly for all paths (unless they would normally run a valid command) 2011-09-25T12:09:39 well, if you setopt AUTO_CD it does. 2011-09-25T12:09:53 Also, if you setopt CORRECT it will try and fix slightly mistyped commands. 2011-09-25T12:10:07 So if I try to run "whomi", I get: 2011-09-25T12:10:11 zsh: correct 'whomi' to 'whoami' [nyae]? 2011-09-25T12:10:23 that doesnt help me learn correct touctyping :) 2011-09-25T12:12:35 janzert: ping 2011-09-25T12:13:46 jbroman: sounds good, you might have converted me 2011-09-25T12:21:12 *** dvladim has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2011-09-25T12:23:40 why an earth can an ssh connection become crawling slow? 2011-09-25T12:23:53 mcstar: yeah, i hate those too 2011-09-25T12:24:06 mcstar: usually the problem is the reverse dns lookups that happen when you connect 2011-09-25T12:24:11 the only reason it does that is for logging 2011-09-25T12:24:14 you can disable it 2011-09-25T12:24:41 amstan: its already connecteds 2011-09-25T12:24:43 -s 2011-09-25T12:25:00 sometimes they are soo slow, that i cant edit a file 2011-09-25T12:25:16 crappy network connection maybe? 2011-09-25T12:25:18 this happens with a couple 2-3 machines at work 2011-09-25T12:25:38 when im in the institute, on the 100MB network it still happens 2011-09-25T12:25:43 high cpu usage on either host might also do it 2011-09-25T12:25:51 no, 8 cores, no utilization 2011-09-25T12:26:06 idk 2011-09-25T12:26:09 and resatrt doesnt help it 2011-09-25T12:26:12 yeah idk either 2011-09-25T12:26:25 its centos 6 btw 2011-09-25T12:26:34 but i not sure how is that relevant 2011-09-25T12:26:56 i suspect a faulty router in the middle somewhere 2011-09-25T12:28:54 *** dabino has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T12:29:56 *** okayzed is now known as okay| 2011-09-25T12:34:48 *** dodo has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T12:38:59 *** dodo has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-09-25T12:50:10 *** eashoka has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-09-25T12:53:19 *** dvladim has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T12:56:23 *** mceier has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-09-25T12:57:56 *** mceier has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T13:09:15 *** _flag <_flag!~flag@69-165-173-172.dsl.teksavvy.com> has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T13:16:24 *** amstan_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T13:16:24 *** amstan has quit IRC (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2011-09-25T13:16:24 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan_ 2011-09-25T13:16:27 *** amstan_ has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-09-25T13:35:22 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T13:35:22 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2011-09-25T13:41:03 *** dvladim has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2011-09-25T13:56:32 *** mcstar has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5) 2011-09-25T14:28:07 *** Blkt has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2011-09-25T14:32:41 *** arlequ1 has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-09-25T15:10:07 *** amstan has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2011-09-25T15:14:32 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T15:14:32 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2011-09-25T15:19:11 *** amstan has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2011-09-25T15:26:03 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T15:26:03 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2011-09-25T15:29:51 *** delt0r_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2011-09-25T15:32:36 *** mceier has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) 2011-09-25T15:32:50 *** mceier has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T15:43:11 *** delt0r_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T15:51:21 *** ibdknox has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T15:53:19 *** amstan has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2011-09-25T15:59:19 *** Dlayne has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T16:00:45 *** Accoun has quit IRC () 2011-09-25T16:10:57 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T16:10:57 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2011-09-25T16:12:22 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T16:15:49 *** Palmik has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-09-25T16:48:56 Guys, where can i get info about ants fight system? It seems link "Game Specification" doesnt work. 2011-09-25T16:50:47 everything is described in detail over on the github wiki: https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge/wiki . The website still needs some polishing 2011-09-25T16:54:11 thanks 2011-09-25T17:01:42 *** ibdknox has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-09-25T17:02:12 *** ibdknox has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T17:06:38 *** ibdknox has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-09-25T17:19:47 *** berak has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [SeaMonkey 2.0a3/20090223135443]) 2011-09-25T17:31:58 amstan: pong 2011-09-25T17:32:10 *** ibdknox has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T17:32:12 janzert: i sent the email for the meeting 2011-09-25T17:32:20 janzert: i was just wondering what you wanted to discuss\ 2011-09-25T17:33:05 money :) 2011-09-25T17:33:09 mostly 2011-09-25T17:33:25 name usage 2011-09-25T17:33:31 *** Eruonen has quit IRC () 2011-09-25T17:34:22 ant schedule 2011-09-25T17:34:28 *and* 2011-09-25T17:34:36 either way actually :) 2011-09-25T17:34:43 yes :) 2011-09-25T17:34:55 ok, cool 2011-09-25T17:35:48 *** jmcarthur has quit IRC (Disconnected by services) 2011-09-25T17:36:23 *** _jmcarthur <_jmcarthur!~jake@pool-72-89-247-53.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T17:39:10 *** Akranis has quit IRC (Quit: Lämnar) 2011-09-25T17:47:54 aichallenge: Marco Leise epsilon * r651f14e / (3 files): support negative scores in the visualizer - http://git.io/jwxt2A 2011-09-25T17:47:54 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * rbccffbf / ants/ants.py : added -1 for losing a hill, removed bonus - http://git.io/6Q3VGg 2011-09-25T17:47:54 aichallenge: Scott Hamilton epsilon * r617de52 / (37 files in 16 dirs): 2011-09-25T17:47:55 aichallenge: Merge pull request #261 from mleise/epsilon 2011-09-25T17:47:55 aichallenge: Epsilon with Hills! - http://git.io/Zpwong 2011-09-25T17:48:34 bam! 2011-09-25T17:48:46 :) 2011-09-25T17:49:33 antimatroid: ? 2011-09-25T17:57:21 *** ltriant has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T17:59:00 must be the silence before the storm 2011-09-25T17:59:23 caught everybody out eating :P 2011-09-25T17:59:54 what are hills? 2011-09-25T17:59:57 server setup in progress 2011-09-25T18:00:23 olexs: piles of dirt 2011-09-25T18:00:39 ants crawl out of them 2011-09-25T18:00:51 has anyone written an updated description/specification yet? 2011-09-25T18:01:10 mleise: and in context of the challenge? :) 2011-09-25T18:02:23 ant spawners? 2011-09-25T18:02:38 :) 2011-09-25T18:02:43 your controller also 'lives' there and is wiped out if it is destroyed 2011-09-25T18:03:32 janzert: yes, that is why we blanked out the problem description 2011-09-25T18:03:32 so basically, the game's being changed before the challenge goes live? 2011-09-25T18:03:54 ok 2011-09-25T18:04:03 olexs: yes 2011-09-25T18:04:37 shutting down current workers 2011-09-25T18:04:39 let's call the controller, the brain bug 2011-09-25T18:05:36 queen would be the natural name although not quite completely realistic ;) 2011-09-25T18:06:24 <_flag> Wait, what are these "hills"? 2011-09-25T18:07:40 points on a map belonging to a player that spawn ants, it would seem. the game's target is to destroy enemies' hills... makes the whole thing much closer to more "classic" strategy games 2011-09-25T18:08:07 <_flag> So the game is being changed completely? Or is this a different game? 2011-09-25T18:08:26 my guess is a change from the beta, so that beta players have less of an advantage 2011-09-25T18:08:49 <_flag> What about all the starter packs, etc.? 2011-09-25T18:09:12 it sure would help us if you fixed the c ones :) 2011-09-25T18:09:19 it's a very small change from the perspective of a starter bot :) 2011-09-25T18:09:49 does the food-based ant spawning stay or is it hills only now? 2011-09-25T18:10:07 <_flag> Uhh... 2011-09-25T18:10:08 I would almost say a correctly written starter bot should run unmodified 2011-09-25T18:10:18 they do 2011-09-25T18:10:43 <_flag> So what role does food play now? 2011-09-25T18:13:05 McLeopold: I think new server is ready. ready to switch over? 2011-09-25T18:14:11 user accounts are recreated, I did not copy contents of home directories though, although I can get to that later if there is something there someone needs 2011-09-25T18:14:17 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * r85db054 / (120 files in 8 dirs): update to maps to support new format - http://git.io/ts3ZoQ 2011-09-25T18:14:35 janzert: don't we want to wipe user accounts? 2011-09-25T18:15:01 I mean the os level accounts 2011-09-25T18:15:05 or do we do that at launch? 2011-09-25T18:15:07 oh 2011-09-25T18:15:24 yeah I think we are ready 2011-09-25T18:16:05 _flag: you still need ants to attack 2011-09-25T18:16:12 so food is still important 2011-09-25T18:16:38 <_flag> McLeopold: So hills are just an area you have to defend? Is there somewhere I can read about this? 2011-09-25T18:16:47 the wiki 2011-09-25T18:16:54 it's actually been there for a week :) 2011-09-25T18:17:16 *** Kingpin13 has quit IRC (Quit: quit) 2011-09-25T18:17:20 new server is active 2011-09-25T18:17:29 the game spec doesn't say anything about hills 2011-09-25T18:17:40 *** detryo has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T18:17:47 https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge/wiki/Ants-Game-Specification this one. browser search for "hill" brings 0 results on the page 2011-09-25T18:17:58 <_flag> The only thing I can find is in the Ants Problem Description 2011-09-25T18:18:01 olexs: no, I need to update that one 2011-09-25T18:18:13 problem description is rather vague, too 2011-09-25T18:18:24 but I hope that'll be fixed in time :) 2011-09-25T18:18:36 janzert: I'm in 2011-09-25T18:18:40 <_flag> How do I destroy a hill? 2011-09-25T18:18:42 oops, got a few more settings need added to server_info 2011-09-25T18:18:57 janzert: did you bring the data over? 2011-09-25T18:19:12 <_flag> Is this still a beta server, or is this the final one? 2011-09-25T18:19:25 nope 2011-09-25T18:19:32 okay, that's fine 2011-09-25T18:19:46 I can still get it if needed though 2011-09-25T18:20:09 woah that came unexpected 2011-09-25T18:20:20 _flag: it looks like the admins are busy. I'd let them finish their thing and wait for a forum announcement... not much more we can do, it seems. 2011-09-25T18:20:55 olexs: actually, as I write the specs this week, you can help me make sure they are acurate 2011-09-25T18:21:24 McLeopold: I'd be glad to help 2011-09-25T18:23:04 ok, confirmation emails should be working again 2011-09-25T18:23:16 ant the click to activate disabled? 2011-09-25T18:23:26 right 2011-09-25T18:23:30 ok 2011-09-25T18:23:35 made it just in time :) 2011-09-25T18:24:03 yeah, creating an account for myself is what tipped me off 2011-09-25T18:24:20 ready for workers? 2011-09-25T18:24:24 no 2011-09-25T18:24:31 we have no maps, nor submissions 2011-09-25T18:24:40 add_maps is failing... 2011-09-25T18:24:44 :( 2011-09-25T18:24:45 ok 2011-09-25T18:24:45 oh 2011-09-25T18:24:55 I didn't add them *headslap* 2011-09-25T18:25:31 That's the chaos I was looking for :D 2011-09-25T18:25:36 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * rab41df9 / (20 files): new maps with new format - http://git.io/-_lopw 2011-09-25T18:25:37 I just wanted to say, running play_one_game to see the changes 2011-09-25T18:25:42 "where are the maps gone" 2011-09-25T18:26:30 riiiiiight 2011-09-25T18:27:02 so no more ants spawning where food was, but ants spawning at hills after food gets collected 2011-09-25T18:27:40 okay, maps are in 2011-09-25T18:28:27 janzert: maz_turns at 1000 to start 2011-09-25T18:28:35 now we just need a few people to submit something ;) 2011-09-25T18:28:44 ok 2011-09-25T18:28:45 submit greedy bot 2011-09-25T18:28:49 it will work 2011-09-25T18:28:54 but it can't path find 2011-09-25T18:29:12 should I submit my bot? it should work 2011-09-25T18:29:25 will it be mazes only or will we get maps similar to the old ones? 2011-09-25T18:29:30 hmm, add_maps script needs to be modified to set the map timestamp 2011-09-25T18:30:14 yes 2011-09-25T18:30:26 I'm redoing the whole thing today 2011-09-25T18:30:32 the first maps were done by hand 2011-09-25T18:30:45 ok 2011-09-25T18:30:52 *** mceier has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2011-09-25T18:31:42 are the workers going? 2011-09-25T18:32:02 didn't start them yet, no 2011-09-25T18:32:07 ready now? 2011-09-25T18:32:12 yes 2011-09-25T18:32:14 I'll just start one for now 2011-09-25T18:32:26 xathis: we will try to include as many map types as possible 2011-09-25T18:33:00 McLeopold: okay that's good 2011-09-25T18:33:06 I think very open maps may work out better with this than before too 2011-09-25T18:35:42 would probably be a good idea for someone to make some sort of announcement of the change on the forums 2011-09-25T18:36:48 janzert: if there is an update script, could the "update_visualizer.sh" from my home dir be integrated? it builds the tools.zip package. 2011-09-25T18:38:35 want to check it into the setup/ directory? 2011-09-25T18:39:03 or is it only on the last server? I can grab it if so 2011-09-25T18:39:16 ok, the path /home/contest/... is fixed 2011-09-25T18:39:36 there isn't any overall update script 2011-09-25T18:39:40 let me check it in, i have a copy 2011-09-25T18:40:03 just the initial setup script and a few to update things the workers pull off 2011-09-25T18:40:38 how long till we have workers? 2011-09-25T18:41:52 the worker booted up about 4 minutes ago, so probably should be active in about 6-8 more minutes 2011-09-25T18:42:08 aichallenge: Marco Leise epsilon * r96d136e / setup/update_visualizer.sh : added visualizer build script - http://git.io/Ce_HiQ 2011-09-25T18:42:09 aichallenge: Marco Leise epsilon * r38b8601 / (186 files in 26 dirs): Merge branch 'epsilon' of github.com:aichallenge/aichallenge into epsilon - http://git.io/3PNL2w 2011-09-25T18:43:52 *** McLeopold has left #aichallenge 2011-09-25T18:45:48 ok, starter bots and tools packages should be built 2011-09-25T18:46:41 mleise: mind if I get rid of the sudo su and git pull lines from that script? 2011-09-25T18:47:44 janzert: of course not, as long as it still serves it's purpose :) 2011-09-25T18:48:07 looks like the worker is active, both submissions compiled successfully 2011-09-25T18:50:05 *** patrisk has quit IRC () 2011-09-25T18:52:52 McLeopold: looks like the worker is getting blank tasks (task: '') 2011-09-25T18:53:46 and game_list.php has an undefined variable error 2011-09-25T18:56:24 weren't the games only played on symmetrical maps before? now you only have mazes, maybe that's got to do with it 2011-09-25T18:57:34 possibly but it doesn't look like it's even getting to the point of looking at a map 2011-09-25T18:58:37 php_api.log is showing a "trying to reset mysql..." line each time the worker requests a task 2011-09-25T19:02:48 think I see the problem 2011-09-25T19:03:16 worker_id = 0 and there is a check for worker_id > 0 2011-09-25T19:03:55 ugh, actually now I seem to remember other code that treats worker_id 0 as special 2011-09-25T19:05:31 hmm, no the worker_id of the current worker is 1 2011-09-25T19:10:12 "call generate_matchup" is failing with "ERROR 1048 (23000): Column 'submission_id' cannot be null" 2011-09-25T19:10:25 but I have no idea how to debug where in that function it is occuring 2011-09-25T19:21:04 *** McLeopold has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T19:23:17 so I think that error may be occuring because all players are already in matchups 2011-09-25T19:24:22 should the first matchup proceed? 2011-09-25T19:24:39 oh, worker_id 0, that isn't good 2011-09-25T19:24:42 well, same error after clearing the matchup table 2011-09-25T19:24:51 see the log 2011-09-25T19:25:00 call generate_matchup is failing 2011-09-25T19:25:04 1 worker? can you pause it? 2011-09-25T19:25:08 it is 2011-09-25T19:25:20 did try and play a game or not? 2011-09-25T19:25:49 I don't think it has received a game task yet 2011-09-25T19:26:03 the matchup worker_id isn't being set to null 2011-09-25T19:26:07 I'll look at it... 2011-09-25T19:26:16 right the call to generate_matchup is failing 2011-09-25T19:26:30 ERROR 1048 (23000): Column 'submission_id' cannot be null 2011-09-25T19:26:41 I tracked it that far but haven't gotten beyond that ;) 2011-09-25T19:30:41 janzert: I'm looking at that now 2011-09-25T19:39:12 *** ChrisH has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T19:40:35 janzert: I see the issue, I think 2011-09-25T19:40:47 great :) 2011-09-25T19:41:35 *** detryo has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2011-09-25T19:42:14 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * ra347ddf / (sql/2_generate_matchup.sql sql/opponent.sql): fix join condition - http://git.io/YleQ-g 2011-09-25T19:44:14 arg, duplicate user 2011-09-25T19:46:00 hmm? 2011-09-25T19:46:32 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * rff542ab / sql/opponent.sql : fix join condition - http://git.io/R3kzpQ 2011-09-25T19:47:07 *** Accoun has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-09-25T19:47:50 I was wondering about that, rather than outright exclusion shouldn't it just make them least desirable? 2011-09-25T19:48:17 or is it simply much harder and normally never run into 2011-09-25T19:49:03 I'm on the fence 2011-09-25T19:49:23 I was thinking I would move the exclusion out and do a retry 2011-09-25T19:50:12 the problem was with 10 people currently in a matchup, the 10 closest to someone with exclusions could become the 10-20 closest 2011-09-25T19:51:06 I think I will drop it and try and include current matchups in the game counts. 2011-09-25T19:51:36 I may still put in no repeat logic... 2011-09-25T19:51:59 but then a 3 player game with 2 users will halt the system :) 2011-09-25T19:51:59 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T19:52:05 3 users 2011-09-25T19:52:55 but the condition where there are only 3 submitted bots is rather an exception 2011-09-25T19:54:34 yes, it is 2011-09-25T19:54:36 let me know when I should give the worker another try 2011-09-25T19:54:44 okay, give me 30 minutes 2011-09-25T19:55:23 yeah, it's an edge condition that should probably never be hit after the start of the contest. 2011-09-25T19:59:16 I accounted for it before the big switch, and knew this might come up again :( 2011-09-25T20:02:41 *** amstan has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2011-09-25T20:08:07 It looks like some major changes are in the works, and accounts on the beta server have been wiped. When would be a good time to check back for whatever comes next? 2011-09-25T20:16:07 ChrisH: stay tuned for the next hour 2011-09-25T20:16:23 McLeopold: ok, thanks 2011-09-25T20:17:13 *** eashoka has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T20:20:28 good morning/evening ! 2011-09-25T20:20:34 janzert: ooh, found another bug I wouldn't have seen if this wasn't an issue 2011-09-25T20:23:47 :} 2011-09-25T20:24:41 ChrisH: feel free to re-register and get your account set back up now though ;) 2011-09-25T20:24:55 janzert: ok, will do 2011-09-25T20:26:54 are the games and profiles all deleted from the server ? 2011-09-25T20:27:41 *** moondust has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2011-09-25T20:27:46 *** moondust has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T20:29:13 effectively yes 2011-09-25T20:29:21 it's a fresh server 2011-09-25T20:31:02 eashoka: have you read the channel logs? The game is now different 2011-09-25T20:35:02 xathis : no, I missed all in last 10 hours or so.... 2011-09-25T20:35:25 *** olexs has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2011-09-25T20:35:30 *** Corgano has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T20:41:04 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * r50cf2a9 / (sql/2_generate_matchup.sql sql/opponent.sql): update matchup exclusion and game counts - http://git.io/352qLg 2011-09-25T20:43:45 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * r8ced30b / (sql/2_generate_matchup.sql sql/opponent.sql): update matchup exclusion and game counts - http://git.io/dUfPJg 2011-09-25T20:46:09 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * rec3a5b4 / sql/opponent.sql : update matchup exclusion and game counts - http://git.io/zGb52Q 2011-09-25T20:46:11 bots are told about a hill with "h row col owner" correct? 2011-09-25T20:47:29 janzert: really close... 2011-09-25T20:47:56 really close to ready, or my last comment is really close to accurate? 2011-09-25T20:49:04 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * r7c1e913 / sql/2_generate_matchup.sql : update matchup exclusion and game counts - http://git.io/qnOZGw 2011-09-25T20:50:32 janzert: ok, go 2011-09-25T20:50:35 added a notice to the frontpage and did a quick initial pass on changing the game specification 2011-09-25T20:50:38 ok 2011-09-25T20:51:09 yay, it's playing a game 2011-09-25T20:51:26 janzert: you can always log into sql and run "call opponent(null)" to see what the matchmaker is doing 2011-09-25T20:51:42 ok 2011-09-25T20:51:48 or "call opponent(user_id)" to look a a specific user 2011-09-25T20:53:10 uh oh, looks 500 error response when trying to report the game result 2011-09-25T20:53:22 :( 2011-09-25T20:53:36 oops 2011-09-25T20:53:37 I see 2011-09-25T20:53:45 haha 2011-09-25T20:53:49 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T20:53:49 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2011-09-25T20:53:51 i can haz submodule? 2011-09-25T20:54:04 add that to the setup script... 2011-09-25T20:54:17 that'd be a good idea 2011-09-25T20:54:40 since I've forgotten for both server moves 2011-09-25T20:54:53 yay, it worked 2011-09-25T20:55:59 ooh, we even get a little hill graphic 2011-09-25T20:56:44 little hill graphic? i wanna see! 2011-09-25T20:58:25 *** Keth has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T20:58:26 *** Keth_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-09-25T20:58:39 hmm, FlagCapper wasn't eliminated when his hill was destroyed 2011-09-25T20:58:44 woah 2011-09-25T20:58:46 http://antsbeta.janzert.com/visualizer.php?game=1 2011-09-25T21:00:06 awesome stuff 2011-09-25T21:01:37 There is an error with the visualizer on the problem description page. 2011-09-25T21:01:56 what's that? 2011-09-25T21:02:10 the non-elimination of the bot when the hill is destroyed? 2011-09-25T21:02:22 Thanks for running this guys! It looks like there's a bug with the website for visualizing finished games right now: http://aichallengebeta.hypertriangle.com/visualizer.php?game=3&user=7 2011-09-25T21:02:28 McLeopold: yeah, there's an error on the problem description page 2011-09-25T21:02:36 I hope that's helpfule 2011-09-25T21:02:36 McLeopold: the map widget 2011-09-25T21:02:38 * 2011-09-25T21:03:15 ChrisH: Ahh, I misread 'on' as 'or' in your comment 2011-09-25T21:03:33 Corgano: it seems to work fine for me 2011-09-25T21:03:37 what are you seeing? 2011-09-25T21:03:39 *** Doddzy39 has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T21:03:46 I see this (copy/pasting output:) 2011-09-25T21:03:59 Loading visualizer...Creating canvas...Parsing the replay...Error 2011-09-25T21:04:02 Loading visualizer... Fetching replay from: game/3 ... Creating canvas... Parsing the replay... Error fileName http://aichallengebeta.hypertriangle.com/visualizer/js/visualizer-min.js lineNumber 1 2011-09-25T21:04:24 amstan: on the problem description page not a game right? 2011-09-25T21:04:33 Starting with "Error" it's all big red text 2011-09-25T21:04:41 my error is on the problem description 2011-09-25T21:04:44 Corgano: maybe try restarting your browser, it might still be caching the old version 2011-09-25T21:04:48 on the widgets 2011-09-25T21:04:54 Right, got it, brb 2011-09-25T21:04:56 amstan: ok, yeah I saw that earlier 2011-09-25T21:04:59 *** Corgano has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-09-25T21:05:02 aichallenge: Marco Leise epsilon * r6938e36 / (3 files in 2 dirs): added ant hill support to live visualization - http://git.io/XGBRFw 2011-09-25T21:05:06 games are working fine for me though 2011-09-25T21:05:20 well the visualizer anyway 2011-09-25T21:05:24 errors? 2011-09-25T21:05:32 I think the engine is running the wrong though 2011-09-25T21:05:37 *** Corgano has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T21:05:39 <_flag> Is there a new tools package for the new game or should I just pull the github repo? 2011-09-25T21:05:49 mleise: here http://aichallengebeta.hypertriangle.com/problem_description.php 2011-09-25T21:06:06 _flag: the tools.zip on the server should be updated 2011-09-25T21:06:45 Reloading browser didn't work, but simply refreshing the page then did :) thanks! 2011-09-25T21:06:48 What is the maximum memory a bot on current servers can allocate? 2011-09-25T21:06:55 the tools are updated but there's no visualiser in the archive 2011-09-25T21:07:07 Corgano: great 2011-09-25T21:07:08 janzert: The visualizer of a game on the home page works fine for me. I cleared my browser cache but still get an error on problem description page. Errors says: "replaydata.map.rows should be 30, but was found to be 10!" 2011-09-25T21:07:30 yeah, the problem description page is a real error 2011-09-25T21:07:38 I think mleise is looking at it now 2011-09-25T21:07:43 Ok 2011-09-25T21:08:06 who's leviathan? 2011-09-25T21:08:10 i wanna see more games from him! 2011-09-25T21:09:30 okay, I'm out for awhile, I'll be doing game specs later 2011-09-25T21:09:41 McLeopold: 2011-09-25T21:09:42 janzert: The page has an invalid map. It says, that it has a size of 10x10, but adds more cols and rows in the actual data 2011-09-25T21:10:50 mleise: ahh 2011-09-25T21:11:21 omg! i get it! 2011-09-25T21:11:26 you can store ants in the hives 2011-09-25T21:11:28 this is awesome 2011-09-25T21:11:37 yes you can! 2011-09-25T21:11:43 http://antsbeta.janzert.com/visualizer.php?game=4&user=4 2011-09-25T21:11:45 don't think you'd want to though? 2011-09-25T21:11:51 just have another ant block the hive entrance ;) 2011-09-25T21:11:51 he just starts unloading at one point 2011-09-25T21:16:27 ok, map on the problem description is fixed 2011-09-25T21:17:07 it displays quite small though 2011-09-25T21:17:15 <_flag> Has anyone tested the new tools.tar.bz2 to see if it works? I'm not even sure mine contains a visualizer 2011-09-25T21:18:02 not that I know of :/ 2011-09-25T21:18:34 @tools 2011-09-25T21:18:35 mleise: tools could be Windows: http://aichallengebeta.hypertriangle.com/tools.zip | Linux/MacOS X: http://aichallengebeta.hypertriangle.com/tools.tar.bz2. 2011-09-25T21:19:06 the windows tools work if you download the visualizer/ folder from github 2011-09-25T21:20:27 It's true, the visualizer is missing 2011-09-25T21:21:19 <_flag> I did what xathis said and it's the same for the linux tools 2011-09-25T21:22:23 I must have messed something up when building them then 2011-09-25T21:22:38 did the ant build run successful? 2011-09-25T21:23:04 "Buildfile: /home/marco/Entwicklung/A.I. challenge/repo/ants/visualizer/build.xml" ... and so on 2011-09-25T21:23:04 I thought so, but I may have missed the error 2011-09-25T21:23:15 let me try again 2011-09-25T21:23:23 or if you just want to do it mleise 2011-09-25T21:23:42 since I'll just copy&paste the error to you ;) 2011-09-25T21:25:08 * amstan twiches at spaces in the path 2011-09-25T21:25:32 amstan... they are harmless and only on my system 2011-09-25T21:25:55 mleise: everytime i convince myself to use them it bites me in the back 2011-09-25T21:26:13 for example, scp sucks at handing things that have to be escaped 2011-09-25T21:26:32 what is scp? 2011-09-25T21:26:44 aka sftp 2011-09-25T21:26:47 mleise: Secure CoPy, which uses the SFTP feature of sshd. 2011-09-25T21:27:13 oh, I just link it into Gnome's file browser 2011-09-25T21:27:31 mleise: sometimes i find myself having a terminal more handy 2011-09-25T21:27:58 ok, now I know why I was using root rights for the script 2011-09-25T21:29:04 all the directories are owned by root janzert 2011-09-25T21:29:20 the script cannot work inside that with contest's rights 2011-09-25T21:30:08 *** _jmcarthur is now known as jmcarthur 2011-09-25T21:30:21 bah, I probably did a git pull as root :( 2011-09-25T21:30:51 hmm, nope that isn't it 2011-09-25T21:31:39 ahh, no I see the visualizer was built as root at some point 2011-09-25T21:32:53 should be better now 2011-09-25T21:33:12 let me try 2011-09-25T21:33:24 @tools 2011-09-25T21:33:25 mleise: tools could be Windows: http://aichallengebeta.hypertriangle.com/tools.zip | Linux/MacOS X: http://aichallengebeta.hypertriangle.com/tools.tar.bz2. 2011-09-25T21:33:42 I didn't do the rebuild, just fixed permissions 2011-09-25T21:33:46 want me to rebuild? 2011-09-25T21:33:56 I did, it looks good 2011-09-25T21:34:11 ok 2011-09-25T21:36:50 seems to all be running, I'll be away for a while 2011-09-25T21:39:44 the 2-player maps are not working for me, also there's not a single 2-player game on the server 2011-09-25T21:40:19 coincedence? 2011-09-25T21:41:08 what is the error? i once had one about a min() function on the default map, but that's probably fixed 2011-09-25T21:41:33 maybe it's not fixed in the max function... 2011-09-25T21:41:57 http://pastebin.com/5tpHV0nt 2011-09-25T21:42:01 good joke ;) 2011-09-25T21:42:06 and self.score[owner] == max(self.score)): 2011-09-25T21:42:14 not joking :D 2011-09-25T21:42:47 oh nice :) McLeopold ^ 2011-09-25T21:48:00 ? 2011-09-25T21:48:55 McLeopold: there seems to be some bug with 2 player maps (?) 2011-09-25T21:49:01 link? 2011-09-25T21:49:23 ask xathis 2011-09-25T21:49:32 http://pastebin.com/5tpHV0nt 2011-09-25T21:50:06 i get that for all 2-player maps, the others are working fine 2011-09-25T21:51:50 The visualizer also has some bug, where the play button turns into a double-arrow and the ants become squares. I don't know how to reproduce it yet and if it shows on every replay and browser 2011-09-25T21:52:22 I can reproduce, working on it... 2011-09-25T21:52:22 *** smk has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T21:58:17 I just uploaded a submission, and my profile page shows a bogus game entry. http://aichallengebeta.hypertriangle.com/profile.php?user=5 2011-09-25T21:59:48 Hello again! Please treat this with low priority, as I'm not exactly sure, but I think I found a bug in the new python starter package: Line 130 in ants.py is now: self.dead_list[(row, col)].append(owner) ; I think it should be: self.dead_list[(row, col)]=owner ; The bug will crash a bot the first time it sees a dead ant (because the dictionary is empty, and it attempts to reference a key in the dictionary instead of cre 2011-09-25T22:01:17 Also, the current rankings page shows (>")> for players with no real games played yet. 2011-09-25T22:08:21 bye 2011-09-25T22:09:12 *** Corgano has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-09-25T22:18:42 *** eashoka has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-09-25T22:26:24 *** nux67 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-09-25T22:27:40 ChrisH: I noticed the blank game as well, can you open a github issue so I don't forget? 2011-09-25T22:27:55 McLeopold: sure 2011-09-25T22:32:41 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * rb9fba25 / ants/ants.py : fix 2 player game - http://git.io/4qY5Mw 2011-09-25T22:32:41 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * r51e0244 / (3 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'epsilon' of github.com:aichallenge/aichallenge into epsilon - http://git.io/B5YilQ 2011-09-25T22:36:26 McLeopold: I read the commentary on issue #194 that you marked issue #257 as a duplicate of. In the last comment you said the next game time prediction works "good enough". Before the server reset I would consistently see a prediction of 30 minutes to my next game and with one exception it always ended up being about an hour in reality. That seems pretty far off to me. Plus when I got near the top of the queue the time remaining w 2011-09-25T22:37:24 It just seemed very misleading. 2011-09-25T22:37:58 I can just double it? 2011-09-25T22:38:15 Maybe, but then the negative numbers would be worse. ;) 2011-09-25T22:38:39 Or you could just take it off and leave the number of players ahead of you in the queue. 2011-09-25T22:38:47 yeah 2011-09-25T22:38:50 I could do that 2011-09-25T22:39:23 Until the time stuff gets some attention, otherwise it is not confidence building. 2011-09-25T22:40:24 Either way, I'm looking forward to the contest getting underway for real. Thanks for all the hard work! 2011-09-25T22:41:22 Well, the problem is, we know who is ahead of you, but we don't know how many will be pulled into other games 2011-09-25T22:41:50 Yeah, from what I gather about the scheduling algorithm that makes sense. 2011-09-25T22:42:17 So, I could assume the worst, or the best or average, but I just don't care enough to solve the problem. 2011-09-25T22:42:25 So I might just remove it 2011-09-25T22:42:26 But at least the number ahead in the queue is always positive and doesn't over promise. 2011-09-25T22:42:46 I forget why I subtracted stuff... I think it was for games in progress 2011-09-25T22:44:19 I think my account was among the worst because I was making new submissions all the time, and most others in my ranking region were not, so my bot wasn't going to add a lot of new info to other games and I didn't get pulled in to other games. 2011-09-25T22:45:46 The other problem is, we don't always know how many players per game 2011-09-25T22:46:04 I sympathize, though, because I've developed a bit of code that solves a similar problem (scheduling contests to determine an overall ranking), but I didn't have as strong of a constraint on trying to get regular contests for the particpants. 2011-09-25T22:47:21 My particpants weren't a proxy for real people, so I wasn't going to hurt anyone's feelings. 2011-09-25T22:48:14 @later tell janzert I hope the workers still auto-restart... 2011-09-25T22:48:14 McLeopold: OK 2011-09-25T22:48:17 McLeopold: now that my entry has played some games, the blank one is gone. 2011-09-25T22:48:36 yeah, it's a bug in the game_list.php if you don't get any results 2011-09-25T22:48:58 select a country that no one is in 2011-09-25T22:49:23 wait, I haven't written that page yet... 2011-09-25T22:49:49 http://antsbeta.janzert.com/map.php?map=maze/maze_1.map 2011-09-25T22:49:52 that does it 2011-09-25T22:52:51 *** AGrishchenko has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T22:54:08 *** smk is now known as gkjhk 2011-09-25T22:58:02 <_flag> olexs: Is your bot specifically designed for the new game or is it from the old one? 2011-09-25T23:06:44 *** Doddzy39 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-09-25T23:08:14 @later tell janzert I keep getting my url switched to antsbeta.janzert.com? 2011-09-25T23:08:14 McLeopold: I come to serve. 2011-09-25T23:09:08 *** dvladim has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T23:09:30 back 2011-09-25T23:09:46 janzert: workers are failing :( 2011-09-25T23:10:19 janzert: I'm going to stop the current one 2011-09-25T23:10:44 just stopping the script right? 2011-09-25T23:11:36 what's failing? 2011-09-25T23:11:44 last bit of log looks ok 2011-09-25T23:12:53 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * r6a11d36 / ants/ants.py : remove print statements - http://git.io/9Mec2A 2011-09-25T23:13:16 btw if you didn't see the check in, creating a file 'stop_worker' alongside worker.py will have the scrip exit cleanly after the current task 2011-09-25T23:13:29 oh, ok 2011-09-25T23:13:45 I updated the worker tarball, but it didn't pull? 2011-09-25T23:14:16 oops, I didn't put it in website 2011-09-25T23:14:30 okay, they should be fixed now, we just need to pull the changes 2011-09-25T23:14:41 ok, I'll update 2011-09-25T23:15:40 oops, just sent worker-src.tgz to my stdout :P 2011-09-25T23:16:13 looked like my font was some form of chinese 2011-09-25T23:16:57 *** okay| is now known as okayzed 2011-09-25T23:17:39 all the changes were just in the engine right, i.e. no changes that would need updates inside the jails or more generally outside the source tree? 2011-09-25T23:18:53 worker back up 2011-09-25T23:22:44 I think all players should start with 1 point and then go to 0 if their hill is destroyed without any other points earned 2011-09-25T23:23:04 well 1 point per starting hill 2011-09-25T23:23:43 *** gkjhk has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-09-25T23:26:14 is food blocked from spawning on active hills? 2011-09-25T23:26:40 http://antsbeta.janzert.com/visualizer.php?game=10 has an interesting situation. On turn 25/26 both of Drac32Drac's ants collide, leaving him with 0 ants and yet he is not marked as dead until the end of the game. 2011-09-25T23:27:42 my guess is a visualizer problem, could you file a bug 2011-09-25T23:27:52 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * rb96331d / (website/profile.php website/sql.php): update next game calc - http://git.io/M4gW6g 2011-09-25T23:27:52 His hill is never captured, would that matter? 2011-09-25T23:28:08 probably what is triggering 2011-09-25T23:28:32 janzert: I will file an issue. 2011-09-25T23:28:35 but he has no way to ever spawn another ant so should probably still be marked as dead 2011-09-25T23:29:51 *** delt0r_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2011-09-25T23:31:04 McLeopold: seems the food cutoff is too quick http://antsbeta.janzert.com/visualizer.php?game=17&user=4 2011-09-25T23:31:05 janzert: vb bot failed :( 2011-09-25T23:31:07 janzert: True. Also, it looks like this is true even in games where a bot is dead and the hill is captured. So I'm filing a more broad issue. 2011-09-25T23:31:16 at least for this map type 2011-09-25T23:31:36 janzert: up it to 80% for 150 turns? 2011-09-25T23:31:51 what is it now? 2011-09-25T23:32:15 ooh, 90% for 100 2011-09-25T23:32:23 that's what I thought 2011-09-25T23:32:37 oh and the location is antsbeta.janzert 2011-09-25T23:32:43 the problem is the mazes can make the food effectively really far away 2011-09-25T23:32:53 yeah... 2011-09-25T23:33:18 I need to go, if you think of a better metric, let me know 2011-09-25T23:33:29 I guess for now just bump it to 150 moves maybe 2011-09-25T23:33:34 or I can 2011-09-25T23:33:52 <_flag> I noticed in this game I came first despite losing all my ants: http://antsbeta.janzert.com/visualizer.php?game=16 2011-09-25T23:34:05 <_flag> Does that mean if I know I'm leading I can just suicide everything and win? 2011-09-25T23:34:18 maybe 2011-09-25T23:34:23 yeah you could 2011-09-25T23:34:27 <_flag> ;/ 2011-09-25T23:34:51 oh, janzert, I forgot last man standing gets the points 2011-09-25T23:34:52 if the ranks can no longer change the game is ended early 2011-09-25T23:34:57 at least I'm pretty sure 2011-09-25T23:35:15 the rest of the hills right? 2011-09-25T23:35:28 _flag: so, if you suicide so that only one bot is left, he get's the points for killing all remaining hills 2011-09-25T23:35:42 as soon as I code it :) 2011-09-25T23:36:24 *** McLeopold has left #aichallenge 2011-09-25T23:36:24 <_flag> McLeopold: Okay I see :), how long do you plan on waiting for another bot to win? 2011-09-25T23:36:46 ? 2011-09-25T23:37:15 we need to know not just the winner of the game but the actual order of ranking 2011-09-25T23:37:17 <_flag> Is that question mark directed at my question or him leaving? 2011-09-25T23:37:24 at your question 2011-09-25T23:37:43 once the order is unchangeable then the game can be ended 2011-09-25T23:38:21 How are the ranks determined in the new game? 2011-09-25T23:38:22 <_flag> Well I interpreted what he was saying as: If I were to suicide everything so only one bot is left when I knew I was winning, the game would wait for the other bot to capture my hills 2011-09-25T23:38:40 <_flag> In which case, how long would it wait? 2011-09-25T23:38:54 no, if only one active bot is left it is automatically given all the remaining hills and the game is ended immediately 2011-09-25T23:39:17 <_flag> Then why was I tied for first in this game: http://antsbeta.janzert.com/visualizer.php?game=16 ? 2011-09-25T23:39:51 heh, I would say because the engine has a bug 2011-09-25T23:40:03 <_flag> Okay, that explains it 2011-09-25T23:40:04 the game was ended but eashoka didn't get the points for your hill 2011-09-25T23:43:18 *** delt0r_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-25T23:44:54 ChrisH: The score currently is 2 points per hill you destroy and 1 point for your own hill that you protect 2011-09-25T23:45:56 well, except the engine seems to have implemented it currently as -1 point to you when your hill is destroyed but that should work out the same 2011-09-25T23:46:00 janzert: Interesting, the ants are worthless except as a means to an end. It will be interesting to see how strategies develop, but it seems like there are going to be a lot of ties. 2011-09-25T23:46:15 yes, draws are probably more likely 2011-09-25T23:51:18 *** AGrishchenko has quit IRC (Quit: Bye)