2011-09-26T00:17:32 *** McLeopold has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T00:19:19 I am getting a strange behavior when using the new tools to test my bot. My starting hive is being send as owned by player #3. 2011-09-26T00:19:32 hmm 2011-09-26T00:19:39 On a 4 player map. 2011-09-26T00:19:47 you should always be player 0 2011-09-26T00:20:03 yep, and my starting ant is player 0 2011-09-26T00:20:10 just my hive is wrong 2011-09-26T00:20:15 on the same spot for sure? 2011-09-26T00:20:31 yep, just ran it with logged bot inputs, so it's not my code 2011-09-26T00:20:40 what map? 2011-09-26T00:20:59 McLeopold: did you see that last player standing is not being given points for the remaining hills? 2011-09-26T00:21:02 the default, maze_9 2011-09-26T00:21:10 janzert: yes, working on it 2011-09-26T00:21:24 janzert: plus, I will kill bots without hills 2011-09-26T00:21:24 oh, was working on it as well :} 2011-09-26T00:21:42 heh, amstan convinced me they should remain 2011-09-26T00:21:48 oh 2011-09-26T00:21:50 then... 2011-09-26T00:22:00 how did he convince you? 2011-09-26T00:22:00 but I'm really not sure either way right now 2011-09-26T00:22:37 McLeopold: scenario: nestless ants win the game! 2011-09-26T00:22:39 Should a bot with a dead hill be able to recapture it with live ants? That seems intuitive. 2011-09-26T00:22:49 that it was worth letting them keep trying to capture and that it may actually lead to shorter games anyway 2011-09-26T00:22:52 ChrisH, no 2011-09-26T00:23:05 once a hills is destroyed it's out 2011-09-26T00:23:12 *** davidjliu has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T00:23:18 hmm, I probably need to test no hills left... 2011-09-26T00:23:24 ok, any reason why? 2011-09-26T00:23:36 ChrisH: janzert said so... 2011-09-26T00:23:40 :D 2011-09-26T00:23:54 it's introduces a non-reversible point in the game 2011-09-26T00:23:59 Mainly, we want to limit the game length 2011-09-26T00:24:07 <_flag> If my opinion counts for anything, I'd rather have nestless ants roaming around trying to kill other hills than just a bunch of lifeless ants scattered all over the place 2011-09-26T00:24:10 it helps bring the game length down 2011-09-26T00:24:28 _flag: yes, it does matter, you've convinced me 2011-09-26T00:24:45 :P 2011-09-26T00:25:14 hmm, nestless ants as kingmaker, or out for revenge... 2011-09-26T00:25:22 if a hill is stomped all over, just getting a friendly ant back on it doesn't redig all the necessary tunnels and chambers ;) 2011-09-26T00:25:27 ChrisH: in the game, what position were you? 2011-09-26T00:25:37 I was pos 3 2011-09-26T00:25:43 so that matched the hill 2011-09-26T00:25:49 yeah, I bet I didn't use the switch matrix 2011-09-26T00:26:28 I wondered if that was the case. 2011-09-26T00:26:37 so my naive method of checking for one remaining_player and then calling raze_hill on any non-destroyed hills inside finish_game doesn't work :P 2011-09-26T00:26:59 I'm guessing because the scores at that point never get into the replay 2011-09-26T00:27:38 *** dvladim has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-09-26T00:28:15 I'm done for the night. The new game looks interesting. I'll work on my bot some more once the hill numbering gets fixed. 2011-09-26T00:28:39 *** ChrisH has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-09-26T00:28:43 janzert: when the game ends, do we want to spread the remaining hill points across all the survivors? 2011-09-26T00:29:13 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * rfe369f8 / ants/ants.py : fix perspective switch for hills - http://git.io/f3AzOg 2011-09-26T00:29:24 at this point I think only if there just one player with ants left 2011-09-26T00:29:55 but as with everything I reserve the right to change my mind after watching more games with that in place :P 2011-09-26T00:29:57 not including timeouts/crashes of course 2011-09-26T00:30:18 right, I really meant the player alive 2011-09-26T00:30:34 just the visualizer at this point doesn't seem to show a player dead when all the ants are dead 2011-09-26T00:30:40 so, if player a takes player b's hill, but then gets eliminated, and player b survives to the end, who did better? 2011-09-26T00:30:58 :) 2011-09-26T00:31:21 if player b is the only surviving player then I say b 2011-09-26T00:31:25 I suppose 2011-09-26T00:31:46 and if not? does it make a difference if there is a 3rd player or not? 2011-09-26T00:32:30 the idea for me right now is that we end the game when only one player is left, most likely if we let the game run he would be able to eventually capture all the remaining hills 2011-09-26T00:32:36 but for efficiency we don't do that 2011-09-26T00:33:06 okay, so lone survivor get's the points 2011-09-26T00:33:15 that makes sense 2011-09-26T00:33:16 there are obviously situations where that doesn't hold but I think we can ignore that 2011-09-26T00:33:20 what about 2 survivors? 2011-09-26T00:33:31 that's where I'm less sure 2011-09-26T00:33:49 but for now I think no bonus for them 2011-09-26T00:34:39 I don't know though I could pretty easily go the other way 2011-09-26T00:35:24 I suppose the above reasoning for the lone player case can be applied to any non-destroyed hills of dead players 2011-09-26T00:35:46 in the multiplayer case 2011-09-26T00:36:21 so go for whichever you feel like ;) 2011-09-26T00:37:21 I guess my feeling against it is that if the game ended with multiple players alive and viable hills of dead players then it's likely the living players just weren't trying to destroy them very hard 2011-09-26T00:39:14 are sigma's being raised based on population turn over? 2011-09-26T00:39:41 I think that may be rather important when starting from zip like we are 2011-09-26T00:49:34 I'm okay with no bonus, I just don't want a game to end for someone still trying and get cheated out of points. 2011-09-26T00:50:07 sigma's are changed by trueskill, which has no knowledge of our game mechanics 2011-09-26T00:50:40 the tau, or dynamics factor should do the raising 2011-09-26T00:50:56 well, part of the trueskill system is to raise sigma so much over time 2011-09-26T00:51:02 but we took that out 2011-09-26T00:51:22 yes we did, but the more I read, the more I think tau is suppose to do that 2011-09-26T00:51:25 and I thought we were going to replace it to match the population turnover 2011-09-26T00:51:55 ah, ok 2011-09-26T00:52:05 they don't really go below 1.5-1.8, so I think we are ok 2011-09-26T00:52:32 we can increase tau first, if we think they are too low 2011-09-26T00:53:58 were extinct bots marked as dead before the rule change? 2011-09-26T00:54:32 *** dabino has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-09-26T00:54:40 well bots that lost all there ants certainly were ;) 2011-09-26T00:55:07 and I think that is still the interesting spot to mark in the graph 2011-09-26T00:55:33 and yes, timeouts and crashes also are/were 2011-09-26T00:56:59 hmm, okay, I think that is just the visualizer 2011-09-26T00:57:08 I didn't change any replay format stuff for that 2011-09-26T00:57:20 * janzert nods 2011-09-26T00:58:22 *** Palmik has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T01:01:19 janzert: I'm inclined to remove the cutoff for this week, just to see how stuff will go 2011-09-26T01:01:43 I think the logic doesn't make as much sense now that ants only spawn at the hills 2011-09-26T01:01:44 hmm, here's an example of a game that would be 25% shorter if ants without hills were eliminated :( http://antsbeta.janzert.com/visualizer.php?game=60 2011-09-26T01:03:35 oh, maybe need to stop of only one bot has hills? 2011-09-26T01:03:54 I think maybe the food cutoff needs to be reworked, but I'm not so sure about the general overbearing% of ants cutoff 2011-09-26T01:04:08 yeah, I'm not sure 2011-09-26T01:04:17 that might make sense 2011-09-26T01:04:48 theoretically the rank could still change, but I don't think it would hardly ever happen in practice 2011-09-26T01:04:59 hmm... 2011-09-26T01:05:16 we need a list of edge cases 2011-09-26T01:05:33 I'm thinking if you lose your hill, you don't deserve the chance to come back 2011-09-26T01:05:33 I guess leave it for the moment and see how it feels as we see more games 2011-09-26T01:06:37 so, if green had lost his hill first instead, magenta still gets an opportunity to come back, but not the other way around 2011-09-26T01:07:01 so the can_rank_change check is only applied to bots with surviving hills 2011-09-26T01:07:46 hmm, sounds reasonable 2011-09-26T01:07:49 if you lose your hills, you still get to participate somewhat, but the cutoffs and other game length decisions won't depend on you 2011-09-26T01:08:01 and a nice compromise between completely eliminating them 2011-09-26T01:08:06 yes 2011-09-26T01:08:14 I'm going to implement that, in about 30 minutes 2011-09-26T01:08:20 great 2011-09-26T01:10:52 I'm liking the way that battle lines develop much more naturally. although the map type might be having some effect on it as well 2011-09-26T01:10:59 could we add a few of the old maps back in? 2011-09-26T01:16:21 janzert: not yet, please, but soon 2011-09-26T01:16:27 tomorrow some time 2011-09-26T01:17:04 *** davidjliu has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-09-26T01:17:20 aww ;) 2011-09-26T01:19:54 <_flag> The server says I failed the test cases but I pass ./test_bot.sh from the tools 2011-09-26T01:20:00 <_flag> Any ideas? 2011-09-26T01:21:21 I thought the server had gotten a little more verbose about failed test cases in the last week 2011-09-26T01:22:35 says your bot crashed on turn 1 2011-09-26T01:22:51 <_flag> Yeah it shows me that on my profile 2011-09-26T01:23:00 unfortunately that's all that was recorded 2011-09-26T01:23:50 <_flag> I really didn't change much that might affect it except it now recognizes hives, which it does just fine in a regular scenerio 2011-09-26T01:25:52 *** Palmik has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-09-26T01:29:43 <_flag> McLeopold: Has anything changed regarding test cases or is the server still just running ./test_bot.sh ? 2011-09-26T01:31:52 _flag: same test, but I will probably add more test maps 2011-09-26T01:31:53 hmm, manually testing it on the worker it crashes 2011-09-26T01:32:10 but there isn't any other output besides it crashed at turn 1 2011-09-26T01:32:45 janzert: I added, like, 3 changes to squeeze more data out, but it never seems to work :( 2011-09-26T01:33:00 hmm? 2011-09-26T01:33:16 oh, record more 2011-09-26T01:33:21 yeah 2011-09-26T01:33:27 well in this case there isn't anymore to record 2011-09-26T01:33:35 plus test_submission was doing stuff a little different 2011-09-26T01:34:01 I added the ability for the engine to grab stuff from stderr on a timeout bot 2011-09-26T01:34:32 my vb bot failed to compile, but I didn't get much in the way of error messages 2011-09-26T01:34:43 but compile is totally different than the test game 2011-09-26T01:35:03 * janzert nods 2011-09-26T01:35:17 _flag: are you writing to stderr on a crash, and flushing? 2011-09-26T01:35:40 <_flag> McLeopold: I write one line to stderr every turn for debuging 2011-09-26T01:35:45 <_flag> Should I turn that off? 2011-09-26T01:35:50 no, that is good 2011-09-26T01:35:55 _flag: if your bot is started manually, will respond to a go or ready? 2011-09-26T01:35:59 we should have captured that 2011-09-26T01:36:31 if I run it manually and try sending it "go" or "ready" it seg faults 2011-09-26T01:36:38 <_flag> It responds to go 2011-09-26T01:36:46 <_flag> It should give you a line each time you type go 2011-09-26T01:37:06 *** Hammerok has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T01:37:13 hmm, "Segmentation fault" is the only response I'm getting :( 2011-09-26T01:37:27 <_flag> To go or ready? 2011-09-26T01:37:28 64bit problem maybe? 2011-09-26T01:37:35 <_flag> It should segfault on ready 2011-09-26T01:37:36 either, both :( 2011-09-26T01:37:41 <_flag> I use 64bit 2011-09-26T01:38:11 <_flag> And it's essentially the exact same code my previous bot that I submitted an hour ago worked fine with 2011-09-26T01:38:31 <_flag> Especially in regards to responding to a "go\n" 2011-09-26T01:38:33 gcc (Ubuntu/Linaro 4.5.2-8ubuntu4) 4.5.2 2011-09-26T01:38:44 <_flag> Has that changed in the last two hours? 2011-09-26T01:38:50 $ ./MyBot 2011-09-26T01:38:50 go 2011-09-26T01:38:50 Segmentation fault 2011-09-26T01:38:59 shouldn't have I don't believe 2011-09-26T01:39:39 <_flag> $ ./MyBot 2011-09-26T01:39:41 <_flag> go 2011-09-26T01:39:42 <_flag> turn 1: (1) 0000, (2) 0000, (5) 0000, (6) 0000 || 0000 (-nan, -nan) { 0 : 0 } 2011-09-26T01:39:46 <_flag> go 2011-09-26T01:39:48 <_flag> Is what I get 2011-09-26T01:40:53 tried a manual "make clean; make" to see if it made a difference but same thing 2011-09-26T01:42:14 unfortunately no gdb installed so can't jump into it real quick 2011-09-26T01:42:42 <_flag> Are all the source files present? There should be ants.c, ants.h, MyBot.c and YourCode.c 2011-09-26T01:43:36 yep 2011-09-26T01:43:54 and it appears to compile without error 2011-09-26T01:44:41 <_flag> Can you do a "md5sum YourCode.c ants.c ants.h MyBot.c" ? 2011-09-26T01:45:15 176d4a9ccedb1d3a59b0347d0fa8cc73 YourCode.c 2011-09-26T01:45:16 00f749f0642876ef1ed3b8e36454d4e6 ants.c 2011-09-26T01:45:16 c7b6b1d355eaf70e3beda58770f3fac0 ants.h 2011-09-26T01:45:16 30c43eb2ea1ccb0767d9863b6c5cb584 MyBot.c 2011-09-26T01:45:52 *** Hammerok has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-09-26T01:47:33 <_flag> Well that's really bizarre... 2011-09-26T01:47:44 <_flag> I'll try reuploading it anyway I guess 2011-09-26T01:48:15 :} ok 2011-09-26T01:50:08 <_flag> "Success: ready to play" 2011-09-26T01:50:11 <_flag> I'll take it 2011-09-26T01:50:19 heh, ok then 2011-09-26T01:50:36 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * re67a7e0 / ants/ants.py : scoring and rules changes - http://git.io/c-_U6g 2011-09-26T01:51:14 janzert: restart worker, or update? 2011-09-26T01:51:19 McLeopold: how hard would it be to start all players with points = hills? 2011-09-26T01:51:24 I'll update it 2011-09-26T01:51:32 so we don't go negative? 2011-09-26T01:51:41 yep 2011-09-26T01:51:45 easy 2011-09-26T01:52:10 what's wrong with negative? 2011-09-26T01:52:25 and since 0 point players basically disappear in the current score display, it's rather wierd not to have them when they are ahead of the negative scorers 2011-09-26T01:52:33 oh 2011-09-26T01:52:41 okay, give me a minute 2011-09-26T01:53:13 I just think it overall will look a little nicer, it doesn't make any difference except cosmetically of course 2011-09-26T01:53:40 <_flag> Also, because of the way mazes are done, I'm not even sure most of these games will ever end in anything other than a draw given the current turn limits 2011-09-26T01:53:53 <_flag> It takes a few hundred turns just to reach your opponent 2011-09-26T01:55:10 yeah, I don't think the large mazes are going to work out particularly well 2011-09-26T01:55:32 the smaller ones seem rather fun though 2011-09-26T01:56:32 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * rac21371 / ants/ants.py : prevent negative scores - http://git.io/SQWslQ 2011-09-26T01:57:05 <_flag> Also, it would be nice if the hill numbers matched the player numbers, so your hill was always 0, the next person you saw was 1, etc. 2011-09-26T01:57:20 <_flag> I made my bot assuming that and now it's doing dumb things :( 2011-09-26T01:57:22 _flag: there was a fix for that tonight 2011-09-26T01:57:41 <_flag> Can you push it to the main server before my bot loses a bunch of games? 2011-09-26T01:57:43 I assume I can update now? 2011-09-26T01:57:44 <_flag> :) 2011-09-26T01:58:21 yes 2011-09-26T01:59:07 should be up 2011-09-26T01:59:15 rebuilt tools as well 2011-09-26T01:59:36 janzert: we should be able to calc a distance table for opponents 2011-09-26T01:59:50 that would give us a reasonable max_turns for a map 2011-09-26T02:00:16 I'm thinking initial food needs to do something like that as well 2011-09-26T02:00:44 more initial food when the distance is large? 2011-09-26T02:01:06 well right now we get situations where food is initially visible but can be quite far away for a bot to get to 2011-09-26T02:01:20 oh, yeah 2011-09-26T02:01:44 I need to check visibility *and* path finding 2011-09-26T02:02:01 it's just several things that didn't arise with non-mazelike maps :/ 2011-09-26T02:02:12 that shouldn't be too hard 2011-09-26T02:03:03 I can to a flood fill to the vision radius at each hill to get the set of initial food squares 2011-09-26T02:03:53 that would help the initial ability to get a few ants going out for sure 2011-09-26T02:05:04 I think this is probably just going to be too much for a 2 player map no matter what though http://antsbeta.janzert.com/map.php?map=maze/maze_2.map 2011-09-26T02:05:24 *** amstan has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-09-26T02:05:49 even if there was no food cutoff whatsoever it's just going to take forever to play that out 2011-09-26T02:07:06 it takes *me* a long time just to find the route between the hills ;) 2011-09-26T02:09:07 *** eashoka has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T02:10:10 A good rule of thumb might be that maximum travel distance between any two points on a map should be no more than say 25% (less/more?) of the hard turn limit (1500/2000?) 2011-09-26T02:10:58 25% is probably really pushing it 2011-09-26T02:12:32 10-15% is probably a more reasonable limit 2011-09-26T02:15:14 I'll just check max between any 2 hills 2011-09-26T02:15:54 then a map can have rabbit trails, but they will not be significant 2011-09-26T02:16:01 <_flag> Especially since with this game there is a lot more strategic depth than simply spread out and don't die (simplified), so you don't need as large of maps 2011-09-26T02:16:08 except a bot has to search them out 2011-09-26T02:16:19 maybe from a hill to furthest point 2011-09-26T02:17:14 at least map design is something I feel we can keep refining through most of the contest 2011-09-26T02:17:20 so, 500 max distance from any hill to any point? 2011-09-26T02:17:47 at the very upper limit 2011-09-26T02:18:09 then, 250 for hill to hill? 2011-09-26T02:18:55 I think those might still feel too far but it would be a start 2011-09-26T02:19:16 I guess knowing the values of the various current maps would help 2011-09-26T02:20:02 for the food cutoff, you would want at least 10% of the map discoverable by 150 turns 2011-09-26T02:20:14 e.g. maze 3 still feels too far 2011-09-26T02:20:19 but I don't know how far that is 2011-09-26T02:20:44 http://antsbeta.janzert.com/visualizer.php?game=44 2011-09-26T02:21:13 leviathan seems to search fairly efficiently but just is getting to the opponent at 1000 turns 2011-09-26T02:21:39 certainly not maximally efficient but not terrible 2011-09-26T02:22:34 in case of draws, (players taken same number of hills at the end) shall we break the tie and rank the players according to number of ants they have at the end ? this will prevent players taking defensive stances and just staying put, leading to boring games. 2011-09-26T02:22:42 yea, it's about 450-475 distance 2011-09-26T02:22:54 eashoka: no, I really don't want to do that 2011-09-26T02:23:42 so the numbers above might work out fine then 2011-09-26T02:23:45 no, ties are okay 2011-09-26T02:24:15 reason ? how and why we should say players with 300 ants and 10 ants (both taking 2 hills each) should both be considered as equally performed ? 2011-09-26T02:24:34 because the objective is to take hills :) 2011-09-26T02:24:35 <_flag> eashoka: I think the idea is to give people who have been working on the beta for a long time the smallest possible headstart, and if they did that a bot could essentially win by just doing what everyone's already been doing 2011-09-26T02:25:07 how many ants you keep alive doesn't really matter at all 2011-09-26T02:25:08 _flag : that sounds logical :-) 2011-09-26T02:25:28 how you use them does ;) 2011-09-26T02:29:39 *** onensora has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T02:34:55 Another one : why don't we stop games as soon as a winner is determined? say in a map with 4 hills, let's say one player has destroyed 2 hills. 2 hills remaining with 2 remaining players, there is no way now the second player can overtake 1st, for he can at most destroy 1 more ant hill and so never can catch the 1st play in scores. so what if we just stop the game at this point ? 2011-09-26T02:36:15 once leviathan learns about destroying hills he's going to be quite a bit better ;) 2011-09-26T02:36:54 the plan is to stop games as soon as the ranking of all remaining players can not change 2011-09-26T02:37:01 it just hasn't been coded yet 2011-09-26T02:37:52 or actually I think that made it into the last big update McLeopold pushed 2011-09-26T02:39:47 jancert : ok, it is all beginning to make sense now :-) one last qsn : should we give any special bonus for a lone survivor ? (in case there is one player who has managed to eliminate all others but little behind in belted hills) 2011-09-26T02:40:49 I'd really rather not add any score finagling and I think that situation will be pretty rare 2011-09-26T02:42:13 it's like chess the objective there is to checkmate the opponent, all that matters is whether or not you accomplish the objective 2011-09-26T02:42:34 the objective here is to destroy enemy hills 2011-09-26T02:42:44 the purer that can stay the happier I'll be ;) 2011-09-26T02:43:06 janzert: what map were initial foods outside traversable area? 2011-09-26T02:44:04 hmm, I'd have to look around again and I'm not sure it was actually out of reach before a cutoff or anything but it was around several corners in the opposite direction initially 2011-09-26T02:44:39 yeah, that's what I'm looking for, so a hill near a long wall 2011-09-26T02:45:24 probably maze_2 2011-09-26T02:45:27 maze_12.map looks good 2011-09-26T02:45:54 here's an example http://antsbeta.janzert.com/visualizer.php?game=134 2011-09-26T02:47:28 maze_2 is really bad for it since the hills are at a dead end that takes a long route to get to the other side of 2011-09-26T02:48:22 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * r61de3e9 / ants/ants.py : insure initial food is not behind a wall - http://git.io/Qd2cMw 2011-09-26T02:48:25 fixed :) 2011-09-26T02:48:33 yay 2011-09-26T02:49:07 distance checks need to be in the map gen, but you can set the priority of the bad ones to negative 2011-09-26T02:49:18 janzert: can you check the vb submission? 2011-09-26T02:50:25 also, we need to keep an eye out for the cutoff games, and the ranking stuff 2011-09-26T02:51:58 worker and tools should be updated 2011-09-26T02:52:22 janzert: the error message for compiler not able to create has a full path, that looks bad 2011-09-26T02:52:45 where? 2011-09-26T02:53:15 Output file /home/contest/compiled/tmpSegyNf/bot/MyBot.exe was not created. 2011-09-26T02:53:19 for my bad submission 2011-09-26T02:53:28 line 128 of compiler.py 2011-09-26T02:53:58 we should shorten that to just the filename, no path 2011-09-26T02:54:03 and it looks bad how, as in ugly? I agree. as in wrong, nope that's normal 2011-09-26T02:54:10 yeah 2011-09-26T02:54:10 security hole? 2011-09-26T02:54:16 shouldn't be 2011-09-26T02:54:31 anyone reading the source can tell that's the structure 2011-09-26T02:55:17 that's not the path where the compile is actually done by the way, just where the compile results are copied back out of the sandbox 2011-09-26T02:56:21 the file check for the result is done after it is out of the sandbox 2011-09-26T02:57:29 it's always rather wierd to me to see the .exe files for bots on linux :P 2011-09-26T02:59:04 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * r9619174 / ants/ants.py : provide reason for game end - http://git.io/Gf4FLw 2011-09-26T02:59:39 that will be recorded in the DB? 2011-09-26T02:59:51 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * r5ef6271 / worker/compiler.py : shorted error message for output file not being created - http://git.io/BpTdmQ 2011-09-26T02:59:52 janzert: yes? 2011-09-26T02:59:57 sweet 2011-09-26T03:00:26 nope 2011-09-26T03:00:31 that might break stuff... 2011-09-26T03:00:33 oh :( 2011-09-26T03:00:41 hmm... 2011-09-26T03:00:45 it's a bit in the db 2011-09-26T03:01:09 is there anything other than the turn adjuster even looking at it? 2011-09-26T03:01:29 since you only just added it recently, I can't imagine there is much 2011-09-26T03:02:12 * janzert looks up the commands used to compile a vb submission 2011-09-26T03:02:24 nope 2011-09-26T03:02:35 but it might be nice in the game lists 2011-09-26T03:03:07 the actual reason, not just a boolean value probably? 2011-09-26T03:03:23 in any case the boolean can be derived pretty easily ;) 2011-09-26T03:03:27 I'm only storing it, I don't see any php or sql reading the value 2011-09-26T03:03:41 I was thinking of max_turns being a reason as well 2011-09-26T03:03:43 the turn adjuster script does, but I'll fix that 2011-09-26T03:03:58 so it would always be filled in 2011-09-26T03:04:02 ok 2011-09-26T03:04:32 would probably be better 2011-09-26T03:06:14 manual VB compilation http://pastebin.com/ac5g0RJT 2011-09-26T03:06:18 attempt 2011-09-26T03:06:25 did I get that command right? 2011-09-26T03:07:51 if I did, I don't know why that output didn't get recorded 2011-09-26T03:08:10 * janzert decides to try with the compiler script once 2011-09-26T03:10:03 hmm, yep the compiler script just complains about the output file missing 2011-09-26T03:10:09 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * r91eed65 / (ants/ants.py sql/0_schema.sql website/api_game_result.php): update to cutoff reason - http://git.io/dQNJxg 2011-09-26T03:10:53 was it on stdout and not stderr? 2011-09-26T03:11:25 could be 2011-09-26T03:11:55 we'd have to do what I did for golang to fix that 2011-09-26T03:12:02 add in a "vglob" 2011-09-26T03:12:12 yep, it's on stdout 2011-09-26T03:12:29 what about c#? 2011-09-26T03:12:52 heck, we should check them all, _flag was complaining too 2011-09-26T03:13:24 now's your chance to rename vglob ;) 2011-09-26T03:13:29 _flag's problem a few hours ago compiled fine but crashed when run 2011-09-26T03:13:36 oh 2011-09-26T03:13:45 did it get turned off properly? 2011-09-26T03:13:54 it didn't pass the test case 2011-09-26T03:14:04 so yes 2011-09-26T03:14:07 so it never turned on then... 2011-09-26T03:14:13 * janzert nods 2011-09-26T03:15:40 C# is on stderr 2011-09-26T03:15:44 like it should be ;) 2011-09-26T03:15:58 okay, so it may not be that bad 2011-09-26T03:16:36 I assume your fixing it now? :) 2011-09-26T03:16:57 wasn't I'm probably too tired to do it properly :/ 2011-09-26T03:17:08 ok, I'll give it a try 2011-09-26T03:17:20 if you want to do it, I'll update the worker for a last time before going to bed ;) 2011-09-26T03:18:37 since that's all in bash history at this point I should be able to manage it 2011-09-26T03:20:25 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * rc04c1cc / worker/compiler.py : make compiler look for errors on stdout for vb - http://git.io/rmT8_Q 2011-09-26T03:20:53 I'll reset the submission in the db 2011-09-26T03:20:53 *** ltriant has quit IRC (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep) 2011-09-26T03:21:37 janzert: when you are ready 2011-09-26T03:21:51 just sec 2011-09-26T03:22:24 database been update to handle new cutoff info? 2011-09-26T03:22:44 *** _flag <_flag!~flag@69-165-173-172.dsl.teksavvy.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2011-09-26T03:22:47 yes 2011-09-26T03:27:26 janzert: ? 2011-09-26T03:27:34 just restarted it 2011-09-26T03:27:39 should be going 2011-09-26T03:27:55 okay, look for the vb 2011-09-26T03:28:20 yeah, it's runing an 8 player game so may be a little bit 2011-09-26T03:31:43 looks like it recorded the errors 2011-09-26T03:31:58 yep :) 2011-09-26T03:32:16 one step closer :) 2011-09-26T03:32:23 now I need to learn the difference between real vb.net and mono vb 2011-09-26T03:32:48 ugh 2011-09-26T03:32:55 *** MikeTheAnt has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T03:32:57 have fun ;) 2011-09-26T03:33:13 *** Blkt has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T03:33:25 good morning everyone 2011-09-26T03:33:41 hi! has the majority of the accounts been removed? Or is it time to go live soon? 2011-09-26T03:34:31 sorta both hopefully, see the front page notice 2011-09-26T03:34:46 janzert: I messed up api_game_result 2011-09-26T03:35:04 :( 2011-09-26T03:35:16 pause the worker? 2011-09-26T03:35:24 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * r120216b / website/sql.php : fix sql error - http://git.io/vA7xYA 2011-09-26T03:35:40 ahh, you got it 2011-09-26T03:35:43 okay, that was quick 2011-09-26T03:36:28 yeah, lone survivor in the db! 2011-09-26T03:36:56 I'm looking for 'ranking stabilized' so I can watch the game. 2011-09-26T03:40:13 hmm, I think the lone survivor remaining hill count is wrong 2011-09-26T03:40:25 it shouldn't get extra score for its own hill 2011-09-26T03:40:35 http://antsbeta.janzert.com/visualizer.php?game=152&user=4 2011-09-26T03:41:01 ahh, nevermind it didn't 2011-09-26T03:41:09 see I should go to bed :P 2011-09-26T03:42:53 *** cichociemno has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T03:43:13 janzert: any opinion on the points per hill? 2011-09-26T03:43:58 not really at this point 2011-09-26T03:44:38 I could see possibly doing away with giving any points for your own hill 2011-09-26T03:45:38 but it really seriously is too late here for me to make any sort of good opinion about it 2011-09-26T03:45:50 okay, go to bed 2011-09-26T03:46:05 I will stop tempting you with intellectual conversation 2011-09-26T03:46:06 see you tomorrow, hopefully Jeff shows up too 2011-09-26T03:46:16 so, about my visual basic error... 2011-09-26T03:46:26 hehe, yes? 2011-09-26T03:47:10 *** McLeopold has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-09-26T03:49:15 *** McLeopold has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T03:56:01 McLeopold: I am about 2011-09-26T03:56:27 i can do the maps tonight too, i'll get onto that soon 2011-09-26T03:56:38 any requests or just as is now but with multiple starting locations per player? 2011-09-26T03:56:57 antimatroid: have you looked at the site, do you know what is happening? 2011-09-26T03:57:09 i have seen a few comments here and just loaded the first link above 2011-09-26T03:57:12 otherwise no 2011-09-26T03:57:17 :D 2011-09-26T03:57:34 I really wanted to go over this stuff with you yesterday, but I slept in 2011-09-26T03:57:56 that's alright 2011-09-26T03:59:22 the ant hills look awesome :) 2011-09-26T03:59:25 *** MikeTheAnt has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-09-26T03:59:37 yeah, it's a different game now 2011-09-26T03:59:59 is there a page explaining new rules? 2011-09-26T04:00:03 or want to give me a quick overview? :P 2011-09-26T04:00:05 not yet 2011-09-26T04:00:13 that what I wanted to talk about :) 2011-09-26T04:00:22 the problem description is okay 2011-09-26T04:00:27 the spec needs to be written 2011-09-26T04:00:44 score is hills only, 2 points for capture, -1 for loss 2011-09-26T04:00:51 ants spawn only at hills 2011-09-26T04:01:08 2 points for capture of a hill or ant? 2011-09-26T04:01:13 hill 2011-09-26T04:01:24 ant counts and kill points are gone 2011-09-26T04:02:33 so you are trying to take out ant hills and not ants? 2011-09-26T04:02:39 can you kill enemy ants still? 2011-09-26T04:02:42 yes 2011-09-26T04:03:10 hmmm, this is much cooler, awesome 2011-09-26T04:03:11 you can kill ants, just like normal, but you only get points for taking out hills 2011-09-26T04:03:55 what happens if your ant hill is captured? 2011-09-26T04:03:59 do all your ants get removed from the game? 2011-09-26T04:04:05 no 2011-09-26T04:04:22 do you capture it by killing it like any other ant? 2011-09-26T04:04:23 you can still score a kill 2011-09-26T04:04:34 no, you must step on it 2011-09-26T04:04:42 range 0 2011-09-26T04:04:42 so once your hill is gone you can't spawn any more ants? 2011-09-26T04:04:46 right 2011-09-26T04:05:02 and if you collect more than one food item per turn you wait to spawn one ant per turn? 2011-09-26T04:05:09 until you've spawned all ants waiting to spwn? 2011-09-26T04:05:14 there is a hive score 2011-09-26T04:05:19 what some replays 2011-09-26T04:05:24 you have ants waiting to spawn 2011-09-26T04:05:34 i will, just trying to make sure my intuition is right :) 2011-09-26T04:05:36 watch leviathan's games 2011-09-26T04:07:08 is there a 1 turn delay in an ant spawning? 2011-09-26T04:07:42 yes 2011-09-26T04:07:49 nice catch :) 2011-09-26T04:07:54 why is that? 2011-09-26T04:08:04 you're the first to notice 2011-09-26T04:08:16 food is automatically harvested if you're adjacent though yeah? 2011-09-26T04:08:23 yes 2011-09-26T04:11:26 McLeopold: so what's the plan with map files? do you still want multiple starting locations per bot? 2011-09-26T04:11:33 yes 2011-09-26T04:11:49 maps must produce a 0-9 for the hills 2011-09-26T04:11:52 is that for multiple hills? and how do you select which hill to spawn to? 2011-09-26T04:12:05 least recently touched 2011-09-26T04:12:17 if it's a tie? 2011-09-26T04:12:42 I expect if bots want to control, they will leave an ant on top of the ones they don't want to spawn at 2011-09-26T04:12:56 yep fair call 2011-09-26T04:13:11 i'll try and update the specs and map gen tonight 2011-09-26T04:13:18 which map gen did you use for the beta maps atm? 2011-09-26T04:13:32 doesn't look like mine 2011-09-26T04:14:11 a tie is random :D https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge/blob/epsilon/ants/ants.py#L641 2011-09-26T04:14:26 mapgen.py 2011-09-26T04:14:34 which is yours 2011-09-26T04:14:54 mapgen.py 2011-09-26T04:17:00 it's a sweet map, i'll take ownership, i just don't remember it making them quite like that 2011-09-26T04:17:44 *** kaemo has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T04:18:39 *** ibdknox has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-09-26T04:19:08 *** ibdknox has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T04:23:43 *** ibdknox has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2011-09-26T04:36:32 *** kaemo has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2011-09-26T04:40:02 *** cichociemno has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-09-26T04:40:25 *** eashoka has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-09-26T04:48:03 *** xathis has quit IRC () 2011-09-26T04:49:07 *** boegel has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T04:50:48 *** k333es has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T05:03:11 *** k333es has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-09-26T05:08:15 *** berak has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T05:17:56 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T05:23:07 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * rf5afadd / (3 files): update vb starter package - http://git.io/AHFd0Q 2011-09-26T05:43:25 *** ChrisH has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T05:44:51 @later McLeopold This game seems to have ended due to cutoff when my bot was still making progress (wow that's a big map for two players). 2011-09-26T05:44:52 ChrisH: Run as fast as you can and don't look back. 2011-09-26T05:45:09 *** ChrisH has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2011-09-26T05:54:57 Why not make a scoring based on number of ants left? That would even make sense that largest 'ant colony' wins. And solves the 'suicide-last-minute' problem. 2011-09-26T05:55:03 just a suggestion 2011-09-26T06:09:07 *** SimonT has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T06:09:21 *** nplus has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2011-09-26T06:09:34 *** SimonT is now known as nplus 2011-09-26T06:11:32 *** mcstar has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T06:15:12 hm 2011-09-26T06:15:18 so its live then 2011-09-26T06:15:48 soo much changed in a couple of hours 2011-09-26T06:16:05 i think i may have traveled to an alternate universe 2011-09-26T06:19:44 *** GreenTea has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T06:20:06 Hi! 2011-09-26T06:20:41 im a little shoked about new rules.. 2011-09-26T06:20:55 This is end variant or possible changes? 2011-09-26T06:21:53 GreenTea: im shocked as well, but i havent read them 2011-09-26T06:22:48 im too. game specification is old 2011-09-26T06:23:12 It's kind of old but you can still find the new changes. Search for "hill" in game specification 2011-09-26T06:23:54 i think current rules will lead to very long games, to find the winner 2011-09-26T06:24:23 because now bot need to 1) find enemies in maze 2011-09-26T06:24:54 I like the strategical aspects of new game, but I dislike the scoring. 2011-09-26T06:25:12 long games don't change much 2011-09-26T06:25:20 2) kill them, which can be not so easy in narrow passages 2011-09-26T06:27:20 Keth: i found "hill" thank you 2011-09-26T06:28:08 GreenTea: welcome, keep in mind this will all probably change. Did you get my message? 2011-09-26T06:29:17 *** mceier has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T06:33:04 im just surprised that apparaently something else was going on in the background, that wasnt mentioned on irc 2011-09-26T06:33:40 many things were discussed constantly, the organizers seemd to be interested in other people's opinions 2011-09-26T06:33:50 and now there are these changes out of the blue 2011-09-26T06:33:56 and no words on forum.. 2011-09-26T06:50:31 *** SimonT has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T06:51:30 *** Akranis has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T06:52:31 *** nplus has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2011-09-26T06:52:46 *** SimonT is now known as nplus 2011-09-26T06:56:54 *** _flag <_flag!~flag@69-165-173-172.dsl.teksavvy.com> has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T06:57:24 *** solif has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T07:12:43 *** GreenTea has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-09-26T07:13:30 *** patrisk has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T07:19:14 *** solif has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2011-09-26T07:19:48 *** smiley1983 has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T07:20:45 :D 2011-09-26T07:21:34 what? 2011-09-26T07:21:39 all we get is a :D? 2011-09-26T07:22:36 What do you want to hear? Yes, there was some work going on in the background to even the playing field for beta testers and new participants 2011-09-26T07:25:25 yes, seems like a good idea. 2011-09-26T07:25:33 you could go even further :) 2011-09-26T07:26:12 im away for lunch 2011-09-26T07:30:33 *** delt0r_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-09-26T07:31:39 Does the python version matter when using playgame.py? 2011-09-26T07:33:28 I would expect so - I think it requires version 2.7, unless they changed it 2011-09-26T07:34:20 Yeah, it seems to require 2.7 2011-09-26T07:35:32 yes, used to be 2.6, now 2.7 is recommended (I use 2.7.2) 2011-09-26T07:38:19 Is local play broken? When I try to test the sample_bots(Python) they all crash 2011-09-26T07:38:23 and the replay is all messed up 2011-09-26T07:39:09 Ah.. never mind. 2011-09-26T07:39:34 Stupidly started python 2.5.2 when it launched the bots, and 2.7 when it attempted to play the damn thing 2011-09-26T07:39:43 I'm assuming that's the problem 2011-09-26T07:40:49 Yup, never mind! 2011-09-26T07:42:09 *** delt0r_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T07:44:15 *** _flag <_flag!~flag@69-165-173-172.dsl.teksavvy.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2011-09-26T07:51:42 mcstar: I had no idea either, but I think a mix up is good :) 2011-09-26T07:53:09 yes, especially since it seems we will get land vision as well as water vision now :) 2011-09-26T07:53:36 heh, might as well have just gone with char maps :P 2011-09-26T07:54:26 wouldn't that imply resending the whole map each turn though? This way it's only transmitted once 2011-09-26T07:55:52 oh land is sent once? 2011-09-26T07:55:55 is that really that helpful? 2011-09-26T07:56:11 oh wait 2011-09-26T07:56:18 you get land and water information every turn? 2011-09-26T07:57:31 I'm not sure if it's being sent yet; but the "problem description" seems to be saying that you get land information just as you get water information 2011-09-26T07:57:42 which is to say, the first time one of your ants sees it 2011-09-26T07:58:00 i need to get onto updating the map generator 2011-09-26T07:58:07 mcleopold wants bots to start with multiple ant hills 2011-09-26T07:58:31 that could be interesting 2011-09-26T07:58:38 *** patrisk has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2011-09-26T07:58:44 and so could the idea of bringing food back to the hill to get the new ant :) 2011-09-26T07:58:58 hehe, games would be too slow 2011-09-26T07:59:04 my original game had that :p 2011-09-26T07:59:21 multiple hills sounds good though 2011-09-26T08:04:06 *** olexs has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T08:09:39 the current game seems to be bugged a bit when it comes to scoring... or is it somehow redefined now? 2011-09-26T08:10:06 olexs: 2 points for taking out an ant hill, -1 for losing your ant hill 2011-09-26T08:10:22 no more points for killing ants? 2011-09-26T08:10:26 no points for killing enemies, you just kill them for positional advantage or attacking their hill 2011-09-26T08:10:30 I see 2011-09-26T08:10:49 time to implement attacking hills, then xD 2011-09-26T08:11:27 *** dr- has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 259 seconds) 2011-09-26T08:11:50 and defending :P 2011-09-26T08:12:16 defending should work fairly implicitly, since ants spawn at the hill, they won't give their terrain up 2011-09-26T08:12:38 best defence is a good attack, so first things first. 2011-09-26T08:12:46 i should still think a good bot is now going to want to actually defend their hill, as without it you can't spawn new ants 2011-09-26T08:13:00 antimatroid: Frederick the Great once said "He who defends everything, defends nothing." 2011-09-26T08:13:08 does every bot only get one hill? 2011-09-26T08:13:12 on any map? 2011-09-26T08:13:15 no, that's my job tonight 2011-09-26T08:13:25 to update the map generator so bots start with more than one hill 2011-09-26T08:13:50 how's spawning resolved then? closest hill to the collected food item? 2011-09-26T08:14:29 olexs: no 2011-09-26T08:14:34 longest one since it spawned one 2011-09-26T08:14:37 ties are broken randomly 2011-09-26T08:14:40 ok 2011-09-26T08:14:47 antimatroid: how do you know? 2011-09-26T08:14:50 there's a 1 turn delay before you spawn an ant from collecting food too 2011-09-26T08:14:55 mleise: had a chat to mcleopold before 2011-09-26T08:15:31 I hope you like that this is closer to your first proposal 2011-09-26T08:15:39 and if you have more ants to spawn than ant hills it will just line them up to spawn on future turns 2011-09-26T08:15:47 melise: i love the changes :D 2011-09-26T08:16:19 lining them up works now already, displayed as "hive" in the visualizer, if i'm right 2011-09-26T08:16:25 yep 2011-09-26T08:16:44 keeping a spawn free is important :) 2011-09-26T08:17:12 if you want to alter where an ant will spawn you can move you ants onto your own hills i believe 2011-09-26T08:17:27 and to take out an enemy hill you need to be on the hill after battle is resolved 2011-09-26T08:17:39 mleise: it is after battle yes? 2011-09-26T08:17:54 is there going to be a line telling you about dead hives, like dead ants? 2011-09-26T08:18:00 *** Palmik has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T08:18:05 hills, rather 2011-09-26T08:18:27 interesting, i think there maybe should be if it's visible 2011-09-26T08:25:31 *** cichociemno has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T08:28:30 how exactly does one kill hills? just move an ant next to it or onto it? 2011-09-26T08:29:07 yep, if you have an ant on an enemy hill you take it out 2011-09-26T08:29:15 ok 2011-09-26T08:49:58 one-on-one games don't work well. if my bot is vastly superior, he will kill all enemy ants before taking out the hive, and the game will end with 1-1 scores. the bonus doesn't seem to count into ratings, both players are displayed as "1st" in profiles 2011-09-26T08:50:29 example: http://antsbeta.janzert.com/visualizer.php?game=323&user=4 2011-09-26T08:50:39 *** dr- has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T08:54:31 hills, rather 2011-09-26T08:54:33 oops 2011-09-26T08:54:38 wrong terminal 2011-09-26T08:56:37 *** kaemo has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T08:58:25 *** Keth_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T08:58:25 *** Keth has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-09-26T08:59:36 mleise: i hope you agree that for a short time i can play my "surprised" act 2011-09-26T09:00:56 *** Apophis_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T09:00:58 sure, mcstar. I'm still busy reading the log and watching the most interesting games. From this morning (European time) 2011-09-26T09:01:36 gtg now, i hope it turns out good 2011-09-26T09:01:38 *** nann has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-09-26T09:01:40 *** mcstar has left #aichallenge ("WeeChat 0.3.5") 2011-09-26T09:05:42 *** eashoka has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T09:12:15 *** dr- has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2011-09-26T09:17:12 *** dr- has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T09:30:17 antimatroid: Toanswer your question, I don't know if the hills are destroyed after battle resolution or before. 2011-09-26T09:41:44 *** sir_macelon has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T09:43:46 wow, now this is a big suprise 2011-09-26T09:44:04 these changes are really great IMO 2011-09-26T09:44:36 there was an obvious lack of a neat macro strategy 2011-09-26T09:44:57 and there won't be any stupid suicides in the end! 2011-09-26T09:45:04 @monologue 2011-09-26T09:45:04 sir_macelon: Your current monologue is at least 5 lines long. 2011-09-26T09:46:15 hills bring the game much closer to "proper" strategy games. one can use many more interesting strategies now 2011-09-26T09:48:56 exactly and games will be much better to watch 2011-09-26T09:49:49 my bot does surprisingly well on these maze maps... didn't actually expect that 2011-09-26T09:52:42 rankings take a while to stabilize with this few bots and the 1-on-1 bug, though 2011-09-26T09:54:45 well, mine also does well, although I didn't optimized it on mazes yet and it is hill-blind 2011-09-26T09:55:49 I fixed the hill-blindness with simple "kill all hills after battle simulation" order. will work more on that later, hill defence is also quite important 2011-09-26T09:57:20 I am still analyzing the games to come up with a good design 2011-09-26T09:57:33 but it is really interesting 2011-09-26T09:58:07 a possible tactic would be hill diving... just try and get a few ants past defences and take out an enemy hill quickly, without engaging in large battles 2011-09-26T09:58:10 defence will get more important if bots will start to send ALL ants on particular hill 2011-09-26T09:58:44 my bot should do something similar in certain situations 2011-09-26T09:59:26 but for now, I'm afk. Will work more on this in the coming days 2011-09-26T10:00:32 wtf xD my bot just got the deciding hill kill on turn 1000: http://aichallengebeta.hypertriangle.com/visualizer.php?game=373&user=4 that's close... 2011-09-26T10:02:50 *** kaemo has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2011-09-26T10:02:53 *** olexs has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2011-09-26T10:06:39 *** berak_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T10:08:15 *** berak has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2011-09-26T10:08:19 *** berak_ is now known as berak 2011-09-26T10:09:41 BTW. wouldn't it be better to call hills as hives, it suites better IMO 2011-09-26T10:15:22 did I break the website? 2011-09-26T10:16:03 what do you mean? 2011-09-26T10:18:08 *** Cyndre has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T10:22:17 betaserver is down 2011-09-26T10:25:11 oh... 2011-09-26T10:26:32 *** ChrisH has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T10:36:21 *** computerwiz_222 has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T10:36:24 *** ChrisH has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-09-26T10:36:46 hello -- anyone else having difficulty connecting to the contest site? 2011-09-26T10:37:23 janzert: 2011-09-26T10:40:43 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T10:40:45 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2011-09-26T10:41:07 contestbot: seen janzert 2011-09-26T10:41:07 amstan: janzert was last seen in #aichallenge 6 hours, 54 minutes, and 40 seconds ago: hehe, yes? 2011-09-26T10:49:25 *** Palmik has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2011-09-26T10:49:29 *** computerwiz_222 has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-09-26T10:53:03 *** amstan has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2011-09-26T10:58:08 *** Palmik has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T10:59:49 *** patrisk has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T11:04:07 *** onensora has quit IRC () 2011-09-26T11:14:55 *** Palmik has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2011-09-26T11:17:43 *** kaemo has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T11:18:05 *** cichociemno has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-09-26T11:27:49 *** Blkt has quit IRC (Quit: Going home...) 2011-09-26T11:28:27 *** sigh has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-09-26T11:31:46 *** boegel has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2011-09-26T11:34:58 *** Corgano has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T11:41:14 *** Corgano has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-09-26T11:49:18 the beta server is turned off 2011-09-26T11:49:29 :( 2011-09-26T11:49:37 someone with ec2 access must turn in on 2011-09-26T11:51:18 *** Accoun has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-09-26T12:08:49 @later tell janzert wake up! beta is down! 2011-09-26T12:08:49 McLeopold: Job's done. 2011-09-26T12:12:15 *** sir_macelon has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-09-26T12:15:11 *** Cyndre_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T12:21:56 *** kaemo has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2011-09-26T12:22:41 *** onensora has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T12:23:19 *** nux67 has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T12:23:39 @later tell olexs if you are the long survivor, you get a bonus of all remaining enemy hills as if you razed them, so there shouldn't be a 1 on 1 bug 2011-09-26T12:23:39 McLeopold: I come to serve. 2011-09-26T12:32:11 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * r3ca3b1d / ants/ants.py : fix hill bonus for lone survivor. closes #264 - http://git.io/oRlWuA 2011-09-26T12:32:28 @later tell olexs ok, there was a bug, but it's fixed now, thx 2011-09-26T12:32:28 McLeopold: I think that worked... 2011-09-26T12:33:39 *** kaemo has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T12:35:44 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T12:36:34 antimatroid: what is the best/fastest way to find the distance between 2 points on the map? paint out from both? 2011-09-26T12:38:11 i assume you mean shortest path length? 2011-09-26T12:38:16 i imagine some kind of a* search? 2011-09-26T12:38:28 hey, check this out http://harablog.wordpress.com/2011/09/07/jump-point-search/ 2011-09-26T12:39:05 antimatroid: btw, we are going to try and implement a max distance of 250 between hills 2011-09-26T12:39:16 which is a map gen issue 2011-09-26T12:39:45 what do you want the minimum starting distance between hills to be? 2011-09-26T12:39:58 no min 2011-09-26T12:40:10 symmetry will take care of that 2011-09-26T12:40:11 you could end up with them adjacent then :P 2011-09-26T12:40:25 well, ... 2011-09-26T12:40:33 20? 2011-09-26T12:40:34 idk 2011-09-26T12:40:51 minimum is probably vision radius + a little :) 2011-09-26T12:40:57 working on getting server up btw 2011-09-26T12:41:08 i can put in a max starting distance, but it wouldn't be based on path distance 2011-09-26T12:41:09 janzert: but with path finding, as the crow flies can be less 2011-09-26T12:41:26 hmm, true 2011-09-26T12:41:37 i am thinking i'll just add the extra hills in to maps once they're made 2011-09-26T12:41:42 janzert: I assume you've revived the server? 2011-09-26T12:41:43 :) 2011-09-26T12:41:54 ^^ working on it ;) 2011-09-26T12:42:21 I got a nice message in my ssh session that said it was going down NOW 2011-09-26T12:42:53 yeah, somehow the spot price shot up to over double the regular instance price 2011-09-26T12:43:04 how long? 2011-09-26T12:43:08 is it still there? 2011-09-26T12:43:28 it seems to be jumping up and down still in that zone, 2011-09-26T12:43:38 has it before now, in the last month? 2011-09-26T12:44:06 can I get the price link? 2011-09-26T12:44:16 only other time I know of is in april when amazon had a major outage 2011-09-26T12:44:34 but it didn't really matter what you payed then since there just plain weren't any working 2011-09-26T12:46:15 unfortunately I don't know of a third part site that shows price by availability zone, which is how amazon breaks it down now, http://cloudexchange.org/charts/us-east-1.linux.m1.large.html has it by region but only shows a peak of 0.34 2011-09-26T12:56:55 *** McLeopold has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2011-09-26T12:59:56 huzzah, i just generated my first maps with multiple hills 2011-09-26T13:00:06 now i just need to try and make it seem a bit less like a bandaid 2011-09-26T13:02:03 *** UncleVasya has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T13:07:56 servers back up (note the server host key has changed, i.e. ssh will throw an error when connecting if you connected before) 2011-09-26T13:08:19 *** Palmik has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T13:17:55 *** ibdknox has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T13:19:06 janzert: do you know much about the distances between hills issue? 2011-09-26T13:19:17 should i perhaps reduce the max dimensions from 150? 2011-09-26T13:19:35 some maps are created with too much travel time between the hills 2011-09-26T13:19:53 Is it April 1 already? :-) 2011-09-26T13:20:01 but the max dimension of a maze map doesn't correspond well with the travel distance 2011-09-26T13:20:14 so we want to measure the actual distance directly 2011-09-26T13:20:54 for non-maze maps the max dimension correlates fairly well of course 2011-09-26T13:21:13 hmmm okay 2011-09-26T13:21:15 This thing with non-expected hills adding seems totally like a joke for April fools day. 2011-09-26T13:21:17 i have an idea i think 2011-09-26T13:21:19 but the current sizes are probably fine 2011-09-26T13:21:37 UncleVasya: no jokes :) 2011-09-26T13:22:49 Have you created a top secret irc channel for discussing it? 2011-09-26T13:23:20 janzert: hmmm, i don't know how easy it would be, but adding in more hills per player should help the problem? 2011-09-26T13:23:31 I'm interested in logs twith talks about hiils making. 2011-09-26T13:23:56 UncleVasya: it wasn't done here, i didn't know about it until today :P 2011-09-26T13:26:38 hmm, I'm surprised with fact that they did not add you to a secret group of hills_makers. Or them was made by only one person? 2011-09-26T13:27:30 *** ibdknox has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-09-26T13:27:33 From logs I know that it was added "to even the battle field between betatesters and new participiants". 2011-09-26T13:27:48 antimatroid: somewhat I suppose 2011-09-26T13:28:03 *** ibdknox has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T13:28:40 janzert: it's 3:30am, do you think i should push the equivalent of the current version that does multi hills or wait until I do something about the maximum starting distance between hills? :P 2011-09-26T13:29:13 my primary motivation for the change was not evening the battlefield but the lack of clarity in objective to the old version, which seemed to me to lead to a game that wasn't terribly 'fun' 2011-09-26T13:29:25 yeah i totally agree with that 2011-09-26T13:29:26 http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=qCkzisTS 2011-09-26T13:29:30 there's some pastebin examples 2011-09-26T13:29:33 antimatroid: if it's finished go ahead and push it 2011-09-26T13:29:38 it doesn't seem to show the hills on ant paste? :\ 2011-09-26T13:30:05 must not be updated with a new visualizer yet 2011-09-26T13:30:36 Do we need to register new accounts now? 2011-09-26T13:30:48 *** Accoun has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2011-09-26T13:31:03 multiple hills isn't super exciting for me, but I really want to see some different maps types play out now 2011-09-26T13:31:17 i like the idea of multiple hills 2011-09-26T13:31:22 and mcleopold doesn't want to add them until you update the generator ;) 2011-09-26T13:31:41 UncleVasya: yes, all the old accounts were wiped 2011-09-26T13:31:57 and pretty certainly will be again before going live 2011-09-26T13:32:19 *** ibdknox has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2011-09-26T13:32:27 *** Dlayne is now known as InsaneMalkavian 2011-09-26T13:32:55 *** Hammerok has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T13:36:33 aichallenge: Nick Ham epsilon * rad6355b / ants/mapgen/mapgen.py : added multiple hills to the map generator - http://git.io/QLUt1g 2011-09-26T13:36:53 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T13:37:26 I finally saw what are these "hills". I found it interesting and wanna see and feel the difference with old gameplay. This kind of game seems to be a little easier (just intuitive feeling). 2011-09-26T13:37:32 @later tell McLeopold I've added multiple hills to the map generator but haven't done anything about the maximum path distance between hills yet, atm I'm thinking maybe adding hills until that distance is below a given maximum? 2011-09-26T13:37:32 antimatroid: Aye, aye, sir 2011-09-26T13:37:55 maximum min path :P 2011-09-26T13:38:04 maximin path 2011-09-26T13:38:59 But now McLeopold's forum message that start will be before october isn't actual anymore, is it? 2011-09-26T13:39:25 i think they're pretty much ready 2011-09-26T13:39:30 just need to iron these changes out 2011-09-26T13:39:59 *** patrisk has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2011-09-26T13:42:51 *** dvladim has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T13:44:34 we're hoping to launch by october still but I won't be surprised if it is pushed into the beginning of the month 2011-09-26T13:46:40 janzert: do you know if hills are taken out if an ant is on them before or after collisions/battles are resolved? 2011-09-26T13:47:58 apparently there's only 1 programmer in the credits for goldeneye 64, talk about badass 2011-09-26T13:54:15 *** UncleVasya has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2011-09-26T13:55:54 *** nux67 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-09-26T13:58:36 hmm, I saw the list of calls in ants.py but I don't remember offhand 2011-09-26T13:58:49 *** UncleVasya has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T13:59:13 do_orders, do_attack, do_raze_hills, do_spawn 2011-09-26T13:59:52 so it comes between attacking and spawning 2011-09-26T14:02:28 hmmm, so you can't spawn an ant to save your hill that turn 2011-09-26T14:02:40 there's also a 1 turn delay in spawning an ant 2011-09-26T14:03:30 well if you start at spawn then it's spawn -> orders -> attack -> raze 2011-09-26T14:03:52 so if there is an ant on the hill you'll have to kill all the ants in the hill before you'll be able to step onit 2011-09-26T14:03:59 yeah that's reasonable 2011-09-26T14:04:14 i'm still not sure why there's a 1 turn delay between harvesting food and spawning an ant? 2011-09-26T14:04:49 me neither, I saw you ask but I don't think McLeopold ever explained did he? 2011-09-26T14:05:10 my guess is it wasn't purposeful 2011-09-26T14:05:21 yeah i don't think he ever explained 2011-09-26T14:05:29 seems like it'll just result in endless questions to me :P 2011-09-26T14:05:35 anyway, i'm going to get some more sleep before uni 2011-09-26T14:05:49 is it really a turn delay? 2011-09-26T14:05:59 or just harvest on turn 0 and spawn on turn 1 2011-09-26T14:06:20 you would expect it to spawn at the start of the following turn, it's a turn after that 2011-09-26T14:10:03 *** McLeopold has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T14:10:26 spawning activity is where both the food is gathered and the ant spawns on the hill 2011-09-26T14:10:57 this happens as the last activity of the turn 2011-09-26T14:11:18 if the food is gathered on turn 1 then it spawns an ant on turn 2 2011-09-26T14:11:34 if a hill is clear for it to spawn anyway 2011-09-26T14:12:03 I think it should work that way and I'm almost positive that is the way it actually works 2011-09-26T14:12:30 ask mcleopold later, i'm pretty sure it'll spawn on turn 3 atm 2011-09-26T14:12:36 but i think 2 would be better 2011-09-26T14:12:39 anyway, sleep :P 2011-09-26T14:12:51 but you won't be able to send the new ant an order till turn 3 of course 2011-09-26T14:12:53 *** ChrisH has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T14:13:26 janzert: antimatroid: let's go ahead and generate 20 more maps with multiple hills, just so they get some playtime 2011-09-26T14:13:40 4 of player count 2,3,4,5 and 8. 2011-09-26T14:13:41 *** detryo has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T14:13:50 you doing it? 2011-09-26T14:13:51 antimatroid: btw, 6 player always failed :( 2011-09-26T14:13:53 no 2011-09-26T14:14:25 I would still like to see some of the old maps or at least the old styles, single hill back too 2011-09-26T14:14:37 janzert: ok, tomorrow 2011-09-26T14:14:44 why wait? 2011-09-26T14:14:50 geeze, okay, today 2011-09-26T14:14:56 yay :) 2011-09-26T14:15:05 *** arlequ1 has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T14:15:18 I'm tempted to make a couple of plain, no water, maps too 2011-09-26T14:15:21 *** dvladim has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-09-26T14:15:50 *** dvladim has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T14:16:52 *** mcstar has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T14:17:02 janzert: okay, that should be really easy :) 2011-09-26T14:17:46 antimatroid: move, attack, raze, spawn, gather 2011-09-26T14:18:25 so it will spawn on turn 2, but after the turn 2 move 2011-09-26T14:20:00 McLeopold: is there any reason the code doesn't do the actual add_ant till after the gather? it makes the above slightly inaccurate in the case of a food adjacent to a hill that spawns an ant 2011-09-26T14:21:50 it makes it, move, attack, raze, gather, spawn anything gather before this turn. I think I like your order above better 2011-09-26T14:22:29 seems a little cleaner 2011-09-26T14:22:45 *** xathis has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T14:25:52 end game conditions seem to a little broken still, seems like this should have ended at turn 440 http://antsbeta.janzert.com/visualizer.php?game=335 2011-09-26T14:26:54 http://antsbeta.janzert.com/visualizer.php?game=301&user=5 this at 314 2011-09-26T14:29:46 what is "raze" 2011-09-26T14:29:46 hmm, worker crashed 2011-09-26T14:30:13 mcstar: general definition or in context here? 2011-09-26T14:30:16 e-raze, lol, never heard that verb before 2011-09-26T14:30:24 got it 2011-09-26T14:30:26 here, destroy a hill 2011-09-26T14:30:32 ok 2011-09-26T14:30:46 when did you guys decide to stir up the rules? 2011-09-26T14:30:52 general usage is about destroying a city or such in a war 2011-09-26T14:31:31 well, antimatroid might remember that I mentioned pretty much the current form of the game back in july ;) 2011-09-26T14:31:55 but no real talk or decision to do it was made until a week or two ago 2011-09-26T14:32:09 since mcleo came back to life 2011-09-26T14:32:59 * from life to us is more correct ;) 2011-09-26T14:33:13 and less funy 2011-09-26T14:33:16 n 2011-09-26T14:33:56 alright, i think i will accept the rules after all, i registered damn it! 2011-09-26T14:33:58 :D 2011-09-26T14:34:06 :P 2011-09-26T14:35:16 *** GeorgeSebastian has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T14:37:25 janzert: what order do you want? 2011-09-26T14:37:55 I like your move, attack, raze, spawn, gather 2011-09-26T14:38:03 it's just not what the code does now 2011-09-26T14:38:11 I think it does... 2011-09-26T14:38:11 not quite anyway 2011-09-26T14:38:26 (2:20:02 PM) janzert: McLeopold: is there any reason the code doesn't do the actual add_ant till after the gather? it makes the above slightly inaccurate in the case of a food adjacent to a hill that spawns an ant 2011-09-26T14:38:35 (2:21:52 PM) janzert: it makes it, move, attack, raze, gather, spawn anything gather before this turn. I think I like your order above better 2011-09-26T14:38:38 *** Kingpin13 has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T14:39:53 oh, i do: move, attack, raze, gather, spawn 2011-09-26T14:40:07 kinda 2011-09-26T14:40:08 ... 2011-09-26T14:40:24 right, spawn anything gathered before this turn 2011-09-26T14:41:52 so if you spawn next to a food, you want it gathered that turn? 2011-09-26T14:44:28 hmm, got a game, before the submission code was unzipped: http://aichallengebeta.hypertriangle.com/profile.php?user=41 2011-09-26T14:44:37 yes, although I don't care a whole lot about that directly 2011-09-26T14:44:58 it's just a side effect of making the order and explanation cleaner 2011-09-26T14:45:22 yeah, it only gives you an extra food per hill at the most 2011-09-26T14:45:53 plus, you don't have to manuver around it to keep your hill open and waste time to gather it again 2011-09-26T14:46:04 I'll make the change 2011-09-26T14:46:17 yeah, very rare it should make any difference in practice 2011-09-26T14:46:23 berak: Yes, I reported that bug yesterday, so McLeopold is aware. :) 2011-09-26T14:46:30 ok. 2011-09-26T14:48:24 hey, i've got a problem. I've uploaded code one hour ago and it's still "compiling", wtf? 2011-09-26T14:48:57 it's probably the one that broke the worker, you seem to have a knack for that ;) 2011-09-26T14:49:03 working on it now 2011-09-26T14:49:44 ooh ) 2011-09-26T14:49:48 ok 2011-09-26T14:49:55 InsaneMalkavian: your screen name seems redundant ;) 2011-09-26T14:51:04 yeah, right. Do you know where it's come from? 2011-09-26T14:51:53 *** detryo has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-09-26T14:52:04 yes, used to play in OWBN and some tabletop as well. 2011-09-26T14:52:55 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * r8f44ef4 / ants/ants.py : change order of game phases - http://git.io/huh7eA 2011-09-26T14:52:55 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * r144b971 / ants/mapgen/mapgen.py : Merge branch 'epsilon' of github.com:aichallenge/aichallenge into epsilon - http://git.io/BbsnEA 2011-09-26T14:53:24 *** Hammerok_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T14:53:28 *** Hammerok has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-09-26T14:53:51 aichallenge: janzert epsilon * r98b87d8 / setup/update_visualizer.sh : Remove su and git pull from update_visualizer script - http://git.io/7LJFvA 2011-09-26T14:56:19 janzert: where is the visualizer build script? 2011-09-26T14:56:27 Just ban InsaneMalkavian and you'll become chrash-free :-) 2011-09-26T14:56:38 *crash-free 2011-09-26T14:57:00 a script from mleise, that rebuilds the visualizer and tools packages 2011-09-26T14:57:16 I think supposed to be run after any visualizer change 2011-09-26T14:57:38 *where* 2011-09-26T14:57:43 I can't find it? 2011-09-26T14:57:46 in setup/ 2011-09-26T14:57:56 *** mceier has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2011-09-26T14:58:00 Are you refering to ant/dist/tools/Makefile? 2011-09-26T14:58:01 update_visualizer.sh 2011-09-26T14:58:16 nope, it does call that though ;) 2011-09-26T14:58:42 what about all the iced-tea stuff? 2011-09-26T14:58:46 *** dvladim has quit IRC (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2011-09-26T14:59:10 *** dvladim has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T15:01:34 ? 2011-09-26T15:01:47 it's much cleaner now, it just works :) 2011-09-26T15:02:03 that is all handled by the ant build no? 2011-09-26T15:02:39 before i had to specify a deploy path and a path to iced-tea 2011-09-26T15:02:59 hmm, no idea really 2011-09-26T15:03:15 it did seem to work when I tried it just now 2011-09-26T15:03:47 *** Accoun has quit IRC () 2011-09-26T15:05:52 aichallenge: janzert epsilon * r4bea0a3 / worker/worker.py : Clean up some unicode to ascii problems in worker.py - http://git.io/h4qvGA 2011-09-26T15:06:30 was it intentional that the visualizer no longer color codes the player focus toggles on the left? 2011-09-26T15:10:14 *** _flag <_flag!~flag@69-165-173-172.dsl.teksavvy.com> has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T15:10:43 aichallenge: janzert epsilon * rc21ae8b / worker/worker.py : Remove redundant log output - http://git.io/W2XmDw 2011-09-26T15:13:19 ChrisH: I doubt it 2011-09-26T15:13:50 janzert: Should I file an issue? 2011-09-26T15:14:34 ChrisH: It still does that. Nothing changed about this. 2011-09-26T15:15:09 ChrisH, take a quick screenshot of the ranking page.. NOW! 2011-09-26T15:15:32 mleise: Since the addition of hives the player focus buttons in the visualizer are just grey for me. 2011-09-26T15:15:54 ChrisH: they do look correctly colored here 2011-09-26T15:15:57 Oo on the server? 2011-09-26T15:16:30 This should only happen locally, when the browsers enforce the web security rules. 2011-09-26T15:16:38 berak: haha, I have one from the PlanetWars finals where I was #1 for a couple hours. 2011-09-26T15:16:57 it can only go down from there.. 2011-09-26T15:17:15 mleise: yes, on the server. I use FF 3.6.x 2011-09-26T15:17:26 wtf... I have to check that *g* 2011-09-26T15:17:44 mleise: it do see what seems like 'timeout', 'crash' marks in the timeline are getting pushed to the end of the game 2011-09-26T15:17:54 e.g. this game http://antsbeta.janzert.com/visualizer.php?game=383&user=5 2011-09-26T15:18:19 that timeout appears to happen around turn 280 2011-09-26T15:18:20 janzert: yeah, I filed an issue on that one yesterday too. 2011-09-26T15:18:39 ChrisH: Do you have the same nick on PlanetWars? 2011-09-26T15:18:53 UncleVasya: yes 2011-09-26T15:19:18 ChrisH: FF 3.6.20, doesn't show any change. Did you recently upgrade FF or are u sure it was the game update? 2011-09-26T15:19:55 janzert: The crash/timeout/etc are pushed to the end now, because they are placed at the end of the score list. 2011-09-26T15:20:06 Bots used to produce no new scores when they are dead 2011-09-26T15:20:22 so it is a replay issue? 2011-09-26T15:20:27 mleise: It used to show colors, and now it doesn't. I have FF 3.6.22, and I can't swear it was the game update, but that's when I noticed it. 2011-09-26T15:20:30 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T15:20:37 McLeopold: we didn't consider this, yes 2011-09-26T15:21:12 the score history can stop short? 2011-09-26T15:21:19 *** Blkt has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T15:21:34 ChrisH: FF had problems with the visualizer in 2 other versions, so I am biased ;) 2011-09-26T15:21:53 McLeopold: is that a question? it did stop short. 2011-09-26T15:21:56 mleise: I can try chrome if you'd like. 2011-09-26T15:22:05 McLeopold: well the players score could still go down by one after they are eliminated now 2011-09-26T15:22:19 ChrisH: ok, it should work in all other browsers and FF versions 2011-09-26T15:22:20 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * r74c1985 / ants/ants.py : only add live bots to history - http://git.io/kLstzQ 2011-09-26T15:23:01 RE: bot death marks pushed to end: if you run playgame.py manually it will generate a player death event to stdout mid-game, so that would be a clue that it is a visualizer or game log issue. 2011-09-26T15:23:05 janzert: should it go down anyway? negative bonus? 2011-09-26T15:23:40 if the hill is destroyed after the bot times out, it has to doesn't it? 2011-09-26T15:23:57 mleise: colors show in chrome 2011-09-26T15:24:09 I'm thinking for bots where all the ants are eliminated 2011-09-26T15:24:39 good evening everyone 2011-09-26T15:24:46 so, elimination, timeout, crash is instant -1 for all hills 2011-09-26T15:24:48 or just go to only adding the self hill scores at the end of the game 2011-09-26T15:25:11 that still seems the cleanest to me 2011-09-26T15:25:17 I like the fact that the score history tells you when the events happened 2011-09-26T15:26:31 hmm, ok it seems to complicate the engine if you split when the negative score for the hill being destroyed and the postive score for destroying the hill is handed out though 2011-09-26T15:26:43 it does... 2011-09-26T15:27:04 but watching your score go down makes more sense 2011-09-26T15:28:07 mleise: can you figure out another way to detect the bots participation length? 2011-09-26T15:28:09 Blkt: hi 2011-09-26T15:28:15 Do bots still participate in the game, if they have no ants and no hive storage? 2011-09-26T15:28:44 (otherwise they could timeout after they are eliminated for fact) 2011-09-26T15:28:47 not really, but their score can still change atm 2011-09-26T15:29:28 I currently show when the bot is technically killed by the engine (I think) 2011-09-26T15:30:01 I shouldn't show a timeout at the replay position where it just lost all ants 2011-09-26T15:30:05 berak: yeah, I'm enjoying being in the #1 slot for the little bit of time it will last. Server crashes are my friend right now. ;) 2011-09-26T15:30:38 *** delt0r_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2011-09-26T15:31:16 hihi ;) 2011-09-26T15:31:52 and thanks for that go-compiler fix 2011-09-26T15:32:02 *** mleise has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-09-26T15:32:31 *** mleise has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T15:32:56 sorry, the power plug slipped out again :-( 2011-09-26T15:33:12 berak: my pleasure, this is my project forcing me to use go for something. Too bad multiple threads aren't allowed, or I'd get to play with go routines too. 2011-09-26T15:34:24 yeah not even on gae 2011-09-26T15:35:02 berak: It would also be nice if multiple packages were supported, but maybe next time. 2011-09-26T15:35:07 @later tell antimatroid multi-hill test on ant paste is working now 2011-09-26T15:35:07 McLeopold: Yes master! 2011-09-26T15:35:13 http://ants.zeroviz.us/GYr5y/ 2011-09-26T15:37:06 mleise: what do you need for the visualier events to show up properly? 2011-09-26T15:40:27 McLeopold: first we need to define what the event is. currently it is the reason the bot was removed from the game (survived till end, eliminated, crashed, timeout) 2011-09-26T15:41:06 I have to show multiple markers if elimination can happen independently from a timeout or crash 2011-09-26T15:42:35 *** delt0r_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T15:42:40 *** dvladim has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2011-09-26T15:43:06 ahh, cool ,got an issue here, see http://ants.zeroviz.us/QoCBQ/, starwqy won by score, but timed out in the last frame, 1st in the ranks, but the visualizer places it 2nd 2011-09-26T15:44:18 berak: it looks like Starwqy timed out in berak turn 278, because his ants stop moving there. 2011-09-26T15:44:33 you can't win, when you time out ? still it appeard 1st in the rankings list. 2011-09-26T15:44:55 you can win if you timeout :) 2011-09-26T15:45:05 I'm not saying there isn't a problem, just filling in details. 2011-09-26T15:46:12 In that game it looks like Clavier gets 4 bonus points for the remaining hives, and gets the #1 spot as a result. 2011-09-26T15:46:34 if you look at the replay['ranks'], Starwqy won, viszualiser thinks otherwise 2011-09-26T15:46:38 ahh. 2011-09-26T15:47:07 got it 2011-09-26T15:48:30 McLeopold: It looks like our programs disagree on ranks ^^ 2011-09-26T15:48:51 still, the ranks seem to be wrong 2011-09-26T15:49:36 _flag: online? 2011-09-26T15:49:45 propably not with that underscore 2011-09-26T15:50:05 no, he's not here 2011-09-26T15:50:17 <_flag> mleise: yes 2011-09-26T15:50:18 Should Starwqy lose a point at the end as well? His score stays 3, even though Clavier gets bonus points for Starwqy's hive. 2011-09-26T15:50:29 <_flag> But I just happened to look right now 2011-09-26T15:50:31 <_flag> So you were lucky :) 2011-09-26T15:51:17 berak and _flag: I was the hacker that downloaded /bin/cp. I hope it was a wake-up call and you don't hate me now ;) 2011-09-26T15:51:29 *** boegel has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T15:51:32 shure !! 2011-09-26T15:52:04 <_flag> Okay, no problem, as long as I know nothing happened 2011-09-26T15:52:56 I have to admit that it was amusing to read the chat. Nothing else happened, _flag. 2011-09-26T15:53:31 <_flag> mleise: Yeah, from reading the code and looking at the logs I was pretty sure nothing else was downloaded 2011-09-26T15:53:44 scanned the list down to jbroman, than gave up ;) 2011-09-26T15:53:55 <_flag> I monitored my system for several hours though just to make sure :P 2011-09-26T15:54:28 _flag: probably run experimental software in a new user account 2011-09-26T15:55:58 <_flag> mleise: Well I didn't run it as a user that would let you get anything important 2011-09-26T15:56:06 <_flag> You could've stolen my code though, if that's of any value :) 2011-09-26T15:56:22 oh, that's disappointing 2011-09-26T15:56:44 <_flag> But you would have to guess the directory, so I'm not sure how much luck you'd have there 2011-09-26T15:58:37 just get one up, one up, etc .. until you know where to find /etc 2011-09-26T16:05:05 *** simshon has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T16:07:38 berak: You cache the requested files. If I download /index.html, //index.html, ///index.html and so on, I could fill up the cache with the same file, referenced through diefferent names ;) 2011-09-26T16:08:03 *** olexs has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T16:08:35 hmm, true. better way ? 2011-09-26T16:08:39 *** Palmik has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-09-26T16:09:36 get the physical file and it's canonical name 2011-09-26T16:10:19 so the filesystem would resolve ////index.html to /index.html, and you can go from there (either load that from the cache or add it) 2011-09-26T16:10:33 so, before caching it actually ? makes sense. 2011-09-26T16:10:39 yes 2011-09-26T16:11:15 more hints ? 2011-09-26T16:11:29 you could also use that name to make sure it is inside the app directory. I didn't see anything else, no :) 2011-09-26T16:11:52 <_flag> mleise: You could have requested the server configuration, that actually worked 2011-09-26T16:12:06 <_flag> And everyone's passwords 2011-09-26T16:12:42 won't work anymore, i guess. 2011-09-26T16:12:58 <_flag> You meant after the .. fix? 2011-09-26T16:14:06 <_flag> mean* 2011-09-26T16:15:00 got it the 1st time, but yes, working on getting some other webserver running there 2011-09-26T16:15:25 McLeopold: are you still there? you could add an additional array next to the player status that contains the turns 2011-09-26T16:15:39 <_flag> Because the passwords and the configuration were downloadable last time regardless of the /../ trick 2011-09-26T16:16:06 cool, how ? 2011-09-26T16:16:41 <_flag> Just by typing in the names into the url 2011-09-26T16:16:55 <_flag> You had the webserver set to operate in the root directory of the code 2011-09-26T16:17:05 <_flag> So just typing "main.py" would give you "main.py" 2011-09-26T16:17:14 <_flag> Same with data/saved_players or whatever it was 2011-09-26T16:17:30 was that mcleo's or dhartmei's server ? 2011-09-26T16:17:52 <_flag> This was the server I tested 2 or 3 days ago 2011-09-26T16:18:05 guys... 2011-09-26T16:18:06 k, mine ;( 2011-09-26T16:18:17 InsaneMalkavian has a problem again. 2011-09-26T16:19:07 <_flag> ;( 2011-09-26T16:19:55 aichallenge: janzert epsilon * r7861010 / (worker/engine.py worker/worker.py): More unicode work - http://git.io/2K4ZYw 2011-09-26T16:19:58 aichallenge: janzert epsilon * rde02fe6 / ants/ants.py : Merge branch 'epsilon' of github.com:aichallenge/aichallenge into epsilon - http://git.io/s7ICQg 2011-09-26T16:24:21 antimatroid: does mapgen create only the maze type maps? 2011-09-26T16:28:28 aichallenge: janzert epsilon * r5aa1370 / (5 files): Cleanup extraneous whitespace in map generators - http://git.io/7y3OvA 2011-09-26T16:30:12 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T16:30:12 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2011-09-26T16:33:47 *** berak has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2011-09-26T16:34:31 *** berak has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T16:34:52 * janzert doesn't understand why the map format changed 2011-09-26T16:35:02 *** Hammerok_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-09-26T16:36:20 especially since it changed to be strictly less capable 2011-09-26T16:38:17 aichallenge: janzert epsilon * r5559f1d / ants/mapgen/symmetric_mapgen.py : Cleanup whitespace from a previously missed map generator - http://git.io/0wTgZA 2011-09-26T16:42:49 *** GeorgeSebastian has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2011-09-26T16:50:35 janzert: it's because ants can be on top of hills, so a square sometimes needs to hold 2 pieces of information 2011-09-26T16:51:33 technically an owner, an ant bit and a hill bit 2011-09-26T16:53:32 in a map file? 2011-09-26T16:54:03 and even so how does it represent that? 2011-09-26T16:54:18 I thought it just changed from lower case letters to numerals 2011-09-26T16:56:39 0 is a hill, a is ant ant A is ant ant on a hill 2011-09-26T16:57:06 dang, I can't type 'an' or 'and' without typing 'ant' 2011-09-26T16:57:18 0=hill, a=ant, A=ant on hill 2011-09-26T16:57:31 hmm, so the current maps are broken since there are no starting ants ;) 2011-09-26T16:57:54 no, the game removes all ants and food, then places 1 ant on each hill 2011-09-26T16:57:55 but anyway... 2011-09-26T16:58:35 I could add a --scenario flag so it doesn't mess with than, nor does the symmetric check 2011-09-26T16:59:10 it's not something I'm either going to agree with or push to change so I'll shut up now :P 2011-09-26T16:59:26 ok, cause it's not changing :) 2011-09-26T16:59:39 10 players was a limit anyway, so it's ok 2011-09-26T17:00:21 in fact, test test submission really needs that... 2011-09-26T17:01:20 *** boegel has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2011-09-26T17:04:54 *** UncleVasya has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2011-09-26T17:07:12 the bot death events are no longer pegged to the end of the game, nice 2011-09-26T17:08:30 hmm, does heightmap.py ever actually finish? 2011-09-26T17:08:55 seems to continually throw out maps due to to much area filled in 2011-09-26T17:11:18 *** berak has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [SeaMonkey 2.0a3/20090223135443]) 2011-09-26T17:12:12 McLeopold: I know this is small, but would it be possible to get the date/time formats consistent on the user profile page? Presently bot submissions times are formatted differently from game times. 2011-09-26T17:14:20 what does mean "hive"? On replay page. The number of ants ready to be released from hill? 2011-09-26T17:14:51 yes, that's what the section is referring to 2011-09-26T17:15:48 Can we get this info from game state? 2011-09-26T17:15:50 speaking of that, are there any plans to provide that number as an input to the bots each turn? 2011-09-26T17:16:06 *** eashoka has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-09-26T17:16:29 InsaneMalkavian: It wasn't being sent when I did some testing early this morning. 2011-09-26T17:16:33 InsaneMalkavian: it would be food gathered - food spawned 2011-09-26T17:16:50 I don't believe there is any plan to explicitly send it 2011-09-26T17:17:04 err, food gathered - ants spawned 2011-09-26T17:17:34 ok, thanks 2011-09-26T17:17:48 janzert: how does a bot know for sure it gathered any particular food? does it have to resolve conflicted gathering radii itself? 2011-09-26T17:18:39 yes, I believe so 2011-09-26T17:19:31 likewise, it would need to keep track of whether an ant on top of a hill was new or one that existed on the prior turn (maybe moved on or off the hive) 2011-09-26T17:19:49 * janzert nods 2011-09-26T17:20:04 and not killed by a battle. 2011-09-26T17:20:25 ok, just checking. 2011-09-26T17:23:01 aichallenge: janzert epsilon * r96f29a6 / (3 files): Update map generators to use new format - http://git.io/8flQaw 2011-09-26T17:25:36 *** Blkt has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2011-09-26T17:25:50 janzert: dang, stay out of mapgens :) 2011-09-26T17:26:05 now I have to merge 2011-09-26T17:27:01 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * rebf0801 / (ants/ants.py worker/engine.py): update score history and player turns - http://git.io/p_V60A 2011-09-26T17:27:01 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * rb0f86fd / (8 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'epsilon' of github.com:aichallenge/aichallenge into epsilon - http://git.io/VT40xQ 2011-09-26T17:27:12 it seems your heightmap.py commit in august of "don't remember what changed" broke it 2011-09-26T17:27:16 :} 2011-09-26T17:27:33 :) yeah, I was in the middle of stuff 2011-09-26T17:28:07 height map is slow, due to lots of bad maps 2011-09-26T17:28:35 that commit was almost certainly conflicting with engine.py not the mapgen stuff 2011-09-26T17:28:51 no, it was map.py 2011-09-26T17:28:56 no biggy 2011-09-26T17:29:47 git stash worked nicely 2011-09-26T17:30:04 ahh, so your change is still uncommited 2011-09-26T17:30:22 janzert: so, I need to give a hive status at the beginning of the turn? 2011-09-26T17:30:34 do we? 2011-09-26T17:30:55 it would make bot authors lives easier 2011-09-26T17:31:08 but is information that they can calculate if they really want it 2011-09-26T17:31:30 just the calculation is a tad complex 2011-09-26T17:31:52 I don't have an opinion either way 2011-09-26T17:32:26 I'd say yes, I know jeff wants stuff to be easy 2011-09-26T17:32:26 *** Akranis has quit IRC (Quit: Lämnar) 2011-09-26T17:33:05 are you planning at looking into end game conditions again soon? 2011-09-26T17:33:35 the cutoff logic? 2011-09-26T17:33:36 http://antsbeta.janzert.com/visualizer.php?game=416&user=5 should have ended about twice as fast as it did 2011-09-26T17:33:47 oh 2011-09-26T17:33:47 it seems to be broken yes 2011-09-26T17:33:48 hm.. 2011-09-26T17:33:54 there are a bunch of examples 2011-09-26T17:33:57 bad uri :) 2011-09-26T17:34:09 can we add them to a github issue? 2011-09-26T17:34:43 I could start doing that, or I can work on fixing them if you want 2011-09-26T17:35:44 so, is it just games where one ant had 90 percent for 150? 2011-09-26T17:36:18 no, I didn't even mean for that to apply on that one 2011-09-26T17:36:36 at turn ~253 the opponents hill is captured 2011-09-26T17:37:03 at that point the rankings cannot change and there is only one ant with a hill left 2011-09-26T17:37:18 either one should have triggered the game end I think 2011-09-26T17:38:08 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * r339e9c8 / ants/ants.py : fix winning/ranking turn incorrect after last turn change - http://git.io/Zj2CMw 2011-09-26T17:38:29 janzert: I'll get that bug 2011-09-26T17:38:51 *** ltriant has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T17:39:51 *** boegel has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T17:42:48 you sure the current heightmap will ever generate a valid map? :P I added a print to show how much area was added when it throws out a map for too much added area. The lowest I've seen is 13% and the cutoff is set at 2%. 2011-09-26T17:48:46 janzert: i think it was 1 in 3 that were good, but I can't remember how it ended 2011-09-26T17:49:12 don't use it, I had to hand pick the ones for beta as it was 2011-09-26T17:50:14 well, I've watched it try to generate a map for about 10-20 minutes and it's generating them at a rate of about 1 every 5 seconds or so and has yet to get one 2011-09-26T17:50:32 I mean it doesn't even ever output a map 2011-09-26T17:50:38 it justs throws them all out 2011-09-26T17:51:23 I'm surprised I haven't hit a stack depth limit, since it is a recursive call to generate each time it throws one out ;) 2011-09-26T17:51:45 *** mceier has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T17:58:59 *** Eruonen has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T18:00:11 *** onensora has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2011-09-26T18:01:21 *** boegel has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2011-09-26T18:03:18 janzert: I think I was adding in a rainfall simulation and broke it 2011-09-26T18:03:49 ok, I've given up on it for now :/ 2011-09-26T18:04:03 mult hill and old symmetric coming up though 2011-09-26T18:06:00 aichallenge: janzert epsilon * refa611d / (35 files in 2 dirs): Some more maps - http://git.io/gf62uQ 2011-09-26T18:06:01 aichallenge: janzert epsilon * rf590146 / (ants/ants.py worker/engine.py): Merge branch 'epsilon' of github.com:aichallenge/aichallenge into epsilon - http://git.io/VIGg1g 2011-09-26T18:06:52 *** ibdknox_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T18:07:55 janzert: oh man, are you ready for the fix for ending games? 2011-09-26T18:08:12 heh, ok 2011-09-26T18:08:59 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * r1e685fb / ants/ants.py : fix can_rank_change logic - http://git.io/ABv-PA 2011-09-26T18:08:59 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * r551084d / (35 files in 2 dirs): Merge branch 'epsilon' of github.com:aichallenge/aichallenge into epsilon - http://git.io/q5_ilg 2011-09-26T18:09:24 oops :} 2011-09-26T18:09:31 afk for a while 2011-09-26T18:09:35 k 2011-09-26T18:10:00 keep the game going if you can beat yourself... 2011-09-26T18:11:04 mleise: the playerturns array is in the replay now 2011-09-26T18:11:13 janzert: are the workers going to be restarted now? 2011-09-26T18:14:09 <_flag> Yay, new maps 2011-09-26T18:14:29 what's with the 0 turn games? 2011-09-26T18:15:49 *** simshon has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T18:16:02 *** simshon has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-09-26T18:24:02 *** mceier has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2011-09-26T18:35:03 *** Kingpin13 has quit IRC (Quit: quit) 2011-09-26T18:37:11 hmm, looks like it is choking on the new maps? 2011-09-26T18:37:25 see what happens when the new worker comes up 2011-09-26T18:43:06 McLeopold: ping 2011-09-26T18:47:08 aichallenge: janzert epsilon * r6c0c1c8 / worker/worker.py : This should always already be an actual string - http://git.io/UdK4Cg 2011-09-26T18:47:08 aichallenge: janzert epsilon * r4cdbf5b / ants/ants.py : Merge branch 'epsilon' of github.com:aichallenge/aichallenge into epsilon - http://git.io/1gHifw 2011-09-26T19:03:10 *** arlequ1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-09-26T19:05:47 aichallenge: janzert epsilon * rb527a60 / worker/engine.py : Fix bad conversion to string in engine - http://git.io/1Ff0Uw 2011-09-26T19:08:33 janzert: pong 2011-09-26T19:09:56 I fixed an engine bug above, but it seems to be creating a bad replay file 2011-09-26T19:10:00 at least I think 2011-09-26T19:10:07 getting the file now to look at 2011-09-26T19:10:12 game 500 2011-09-26T19:11:16 hmm, doesn't look like the game actually played any turns? 2011-09-26T19:11:56 olexs mentioned something about 0 turn games? 2011-09-26T19:12:17 yeah, i've got three in my profile. 2011-09-26T19:12:20 McLeopold: yes, like this one: http://aichallengebeta.hypertriangle.com/visualizer.php?game=481&user=5&turn=0 2011-09-26T19:12:21 that seemed to be before the worker was restarted, but yes I think it's related 2011-09-26T19:12:52 janzert: that fix should probably be applied in 2 other places 2011-09-26T19:13:47 hey guys, i was thining about strategies for multiple hills per player and i might have discovered a flaw 2011-09-26T19:13:53 imagine i get control of an enemy hill but instead of stepping on it i just place two of my ants in attack radius of the hill. so now every other ant my enemy spawns will be directly killed and he has no chance of preventing this. as soon as other enemies approach or the turn limit is over i can still step on the hill and get the points 2011-09-26T19:14:33 what's your opinion on this? 2011-09-26T19:14:41 play_one_game seems to run the game but visualizer then displays an error 2011-09-26T19:14:56 McLeopold: see ny last 3 games, http://antsbeta.janzert.com/profile.php?user=4 2011-09-26T19:15:05 xathis: i think the ants should create a stockpile of ants in the hill to be able to defend it 2011-09-26T19:15:16 all new maps, all finished directly at start. no game played since, that was a while ago 2011-09-26T19:16:02 amstan: but there can only spawn one ant per turn and it would be killed 2011-09-26T19:21:40 morning 2011-09-26T19:24:14 McLeopold, janzert: what do you think about the flaw? 2011-09-26T19:25:11 xathis: why wouldn't you just take the ant hill out already? 2011-09-26T19:25:16 oh wait, yeah hmmm 2011-09-26T19:25:27 put it in your bot and see how it works out 2011-09-26T19:25:42 I'm ambivalent about multiple hills anyway 2011-09-26T19:26:41 i'd love to see multiple hills but i'm sure this idea catches on and than we need a different implementation 2011-09-26T19:27:10 something like being able to sacriface a hill or directly controlling where you want to spawn 2011-09-26T19:28:28 McLeopold: have any games run with multiple hills yet? 2011-09-26T19:28:40 not successfully 2011-09-26T19:28:57 I think he's working on it now 2011-09-26T19:30:13 hmmm, i just thought of something that does need to change 2011-09-26T19:30:36 i don't think i ever checked to make sure i'm not adding the additional hills where they'd be completely surrounded by water 2011-09-26T19:31:59 i thought there couldn't be a land completely surrounded by water at all? 2011-09-26T19:32:56 I wonder how a map with two islands separated from each other but both having hives from all players on them would play. 2011-09-26T19:33:01 no, but it's not checking to make sure what the type of squares are it's adding hills too, it could add them on top of hills 2011-09-26T19:33:06 i have a 2 line fix 2011-09-26T19:33:28 ah okay 2011-09-26T19:36:32 xathis: the idea was to allow the bot to control where to spawn, I tried to do that without changing the bot output 2011-09-26T19:37:20 McLeopold: find the problem with games yet? 2011-09-26T19:37:26 aichallenge: Nick Ham epsilon * r0288abf / ants/mapgen/mapgen.py : fixed the maze map generator - http://git.io/flceNg 2011-09-26T19:37:27 uhm...okay. i'm curious how this will work 2011-09-26T19:37:44 janzert: no, haven't been looking 2011-09-26T19:38:01 oh, guess I better get back to trying to figure it out 2011-09-26T19:41:15 McLeopold: what do you think about the idea of adding ant hills for players until the maximum minimum path between enemy ant hills is below a specified maximum? 2011-09-26T19:41:21 i can't really think of how else you'd do it nicely 2011-09-26T19:41:53 antimatroid: how ever you want to do it 2011-09-26T19:41:59 antimatroid: knock down walls in between them? 2011-09-26T19:42:22 janzert: yeah, that's probably harder though still :P 2011-09-26T19:42:30 but would allow you to pick how many hills to have better 2011-09-26T19:42:52 i'll think about it today, i have to leave for uni in a bit anyway 2011-09-26T19:45:23 janzert: I get an error trying to run the visualizer locally after playing a game on a regular (single hive) maze map. Not sure if that helps, but it sounded like the new maps might have been suspected, but they may not be the direct cause. 2011-09-26T19:45:55 yeah, I'm not sure the new maps are actually causing any problem at all. certainly not the only problem 2011-09-26T19:47:20 http://ants.zeroviz.us/iC3TC/ 2011-09-26T19:47:32 they can look a bit weird with 8 player rotational symmetry 2011-09-26T19:48:56 http://ants.zeroviz.us/cWckw/ not sure if that many hills is a good idea? 2011-09-26T19:49:17 antimatroid: not so weird once you translate it to put one of the rotation points in the center 2011-09-26T19:49:42 ChrisH: I randomly translate the rotationally symmetric grids so that it's harder to determine the type of symmetry :) 2011-09-26T19:50:01 janzert: the visualizer is complaining about game durations 2011-09-26T19:50:01 antimatroid: understood 2011-09-26T19:50:01 i guess i could just get it to try and translate the most ants into the center of the map somehow 2011-09-26T19:50:52 this is a visualizer/replay issue 2011-09-26T19:51:31 umm, is that last map i posted fully connected? 2011-09-26T19:52:14 yeah it is, but i think there's 2 regions pretty well separated 2011-09-26T19:52:26 McLeopold: seems to be lines 1373 and 1374 in ants.py where scores are added to the score_history in finish_game 2011-09-26T19:52:33 yep 2011-09-26T19:52:40 let me think about this... 2011-09-26T19:52:47 ok 2011-09-26T19:54:26 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * rd41d704 / ants/ants.py : fix game score history length bug - http://git.io/bh3nBQ 2011-09-26T19:56:16 antimatroid, mleise: you guys free in an hour? 2011-09-26T19:56:35 jeff might come by for a meeting about the launch 2011-09-26T19:56:42 well.. he should 2011-09-26T19:58:20 and something is still going wrong on the worker, it's getting 0 length games 2011-09-26T19:58:45 although play_one_game runs normally 2011-09-26T19:58:47 might? 2011-09-26T19:59:14 janzert: I did see the error, and the fix made a local game display correctly 2011-09-26T19:59:39 yeah, me too locally 2011-09-26T19:59:48 the worker seems to have something else going on 2011-09-26T19:59:53 hmm... 2011-09-26T20:00:00 you got a screen session? 2011-09-26T20:00:08 there's no error displayed 2011-09-26T20:00:21 you can stop it and run with --debug 2011-09-26T20:00:23 but yeah, I'm playing in a screen now 2011-09-26T20:00:42 what's the ip? 2011-09-26T20:01:20 184.73.47.209 2011-09-26T20:02:04 ugh, max_turns is set to 30 2011-09-26T20:02:08 there's one problem 2011-09-26T20:02:24 oh, I know what happened 2011-09-26T20:02:36 you used add_maps..., but didn't update the max_turns? 2011-09-26T20:02:45 yep, just saw that 2011-09-26T20:02:48 the default value is 0 :) 2011-09-26T20:03:38 on the bright side, 100 games will go quick so you know to up the turns :P 2011-09-26T20:03:45 heh 2011-09-26T20:04:00 okay, I'm out until 6 2011-09-26T20:04:10 *** McLeopold has left #aichallenge 2011-09-26T20:06:39 there we go 2011-09-26T20:08:47 multi_maze_20 is a wild wild west map 2011-09-26T20:09:44 it seems there are spawns on water in it 2011-09-26T20:09:56 hills 2011-09-26T20:10:53 well I think by definition in the map a hill is land, it could be in the midst of water though 2011-09-26T20:11:03 since these were generated before antimatroid last fix 2011-09-26T20:11:51 yeah, it doesn't seem to affect proper movement. 2011-09-26T20:12:30 question: will turn_time now stay at 500ms or will it be turned back up to 1s when we go live? 2011-09-26T20:12:44 it's probably going to stay at 500 2011-09-26T20:14:44 ok 2011-09-26T20:15:55 amstan: I'm going to be at uni, but I don't think i'm really needed anyway 2011-09-26T20:16:11 antimatroid: just letting you know 2011-09-26T20:16:16 yep 2011-09-26T20:16:17 antimatroid: but you're right 2011-09-26T20:16:17 amstan: what did you want to tell me and antimatroid? I'm going to bed now. 2011-09-26T20:16:28 ouch on the 500ms 2011-09-26T20:16:41 mleise: if you're interested in participating in a meeting about the launch 2011-09-26T20:16:58 mleise: i don't think we need you, but you might like to take part 2011-09-26T20:18:18 That's ok for me if you do it in a small group. You may get done more with less opinions ;) 2011-09-26T20:19:39 ok 2011-09-26T20:20:58 I'll look at something McLeopold added to get the bot status markers right, tomorrow and fix some bugs or get some minor enhancements into the visualizer. 2011-09-26T20:21:54 And then I'm through with organizing the ant contest. :) 2011-09-26T20:22:41 antimatroid: You use C++, right? Then you should be happy about the advantage of a narrow time window for your turn. 2011-09-26T20:23:25 mleise: i'm more interested in people being able to implement cooler strategies, but it's always got to be limited somewhere i suppose 2011-09-26T20:23:29 Imagine someone using a garbage collected language where the GC kicks in, in the middle of a turn calculation ;) 2011-09-26T20:25:47 hehe, "if java had real garbage collection it would delete most programs upon execution" my new favourite quote 2011-09-26T20:27:37 that's great, anyway gtg! 2011-09-26T20:28:11 *** mleise has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2011-09-26T20:28:36 *** McLeopold has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T20:52:47 *** nullkuhl has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T20:58:26 *** Keth has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T20:58:26 *** Keth_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-09-26T21:04:10 j3camero: ping 2011-09-26T21:04:18 janzert: ping 2011-09-26T21:04:20 amstan: ping 2011-09-26T21:04:32 McLeopold: pong 2011-09-26T21:05:12 McLeopold: was trying to put together a quick games page, but I have the same error the map page used to have http://antsbeta.janzert.com/games.php 2011-09-26T21:05:27 only one player name is shown in all spots 2011-09-26T21:05:32 * amstan doesn't see jeff anywhere 2011-09-26T21:05:39 like gtalk 2011-09-26T21:06:32 I'm basically just calling get_game_list_table($page) 2011-09-26T21:07:20 janzert: redoing game_list.php is on my todo list for this week 2011-09-26T21:07:47 ok 2011-09-26T21:07:47 you should be able to pass in nulls for the criteria and a page 1 to get the first 100 results 2011-09-26T21:08:14 yeah, pretty sure they all default to NULL 2011-09-26T21:08:17 but...I may need to switch to the "select_map_game_list" query to prevent dups 2011-09-26T21:09:07 amstan: so, did you ever get a response from jeff? didn't he send out an email to someone? 2011-09-26T21:09:22 McLeopold: i did not get a response 2011-09-26T21:09:32 can you text him now? 2011-09-26T21:09:47 aichallenge: janzert epsilon * r50f49f2 / website/games.php : Quick page to list server games - http://git.io/pXfBNA 2011-09-26T21:10:00 McLeopold: i don't really have a phone to text him from right now 2011-09-26T21:10:14 if you guys want to: 2011-09-26T21:10:15 @seen j3camero 2011-09-26T21:10:15 amstan: j3camero was last seen in #aichallenge 13 weeks, 6 days, 22 hours, 10 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: Text me at 416 464 3096. 2011-09-26T21:11:05 aichallenge: McLeopold epsilon * r7893e35 / website/game_list.php : prevent duplicate names for game lists with no criteria - http://git.io/sk46XQ 2011-09-26T21:11:05 I'd like to link the games page right below the visualizer on the frontpage but I'll wait till it's working correctly 2011-09-26T21:11:18 try that? 2011-09-26T21:11:24 heh, that was quick :) 2011-09-26T21:11:33 yay 2011-09-26T21:13:31 order of maps played doesn't look very random, triple repeats all the time in the last games? 2011-09-26T21:13:51 olexs: you're right, I haven't looked at that in months 2011-09-26T21:13:54 shouldn't this game have ended at move 260? http://antsbeta.janzert.com/visualizer.php?game=522 2011-09-26T21:14:13 i.e. as soon as only one player had a hill left? 2011-09-26T21:14:51 the scores are wrong for multiple hills, I see negative numbers 2011-09-26T21:14:58 Woah, you can seal hills? 2011-09-26T21:15:20 jbroman: you pretty much must, that's the only thing you get points for anymore :) 2011-09-26T21:15:20 no, but you can start with more than 1 2011-09-26T21:15:42 ok, depends on what you mean by steal :) 2011-09-26T21:15:50 seal != steal :) 2011-09-26T21:16:16 heh 2011-09-26T21:17:56 the scoring system is not perfect, imo. in that game (522 linked above) red had the only hill left, but since blue got all the hill kills, he gets a higher score. even though red would have eventually taken blue out, having the only hill left on the map 2011-09-26T21:18:53 blue did better than red, even if red would eventually wipe him out 2011-09-26T21:19:07 the objective is not to survive 2011-09-26T21:19:19 the objective is to destroy hills :) 2011-09-26T21:19:46 I see. 2011-09-26T21:19:59 surviving generally helps though :P 2011-09-26T21:20:07 true :) 2011-09-26T21:20:55 I need to implement some explicit hill defence, I fear on open maps my bot won't be as good as in the mazes 2011-09-26T21:21:13 You and me both olexs. 2011-09-26T21:21:39 reminds me, I think I'll go make that completely open map 2011-09-26T21:21:55 no water at all? :) 2011-09-26T21:21:56 game 522 should have ended sooner 2011-09-26T21:22:06 olexs: right 2011-09-26T21:22:13 janzert: interesting 2011-09-26T21:22:23 just to see what it looks like 2011-09-26T21:22:29 plays like 2011-09-26T21:22:56 no terrain advantages, only formations against formations 2011-09-26T21:25:51 * amstan just saw jeff login to gmail 2011-09-26T21:27:59 *** ibdknox_ has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2011-09-26T21:28:32 *** ibdknox_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T21:31:27 McLeopold, janzert: ok, this needs to be quick 2011-09-26T21:31:39 Oh nice my screen session is still live. 2011-09-26T21:31:44 That's convenient. 2011-09-26T21:31:44 hey 2011-09-26T21:31:48 Hey hey. 2011-09-26T21:32:00 Can't stay long. Gotta get up early for teh work tomorrow. 2011-09-26T21:32:25 before we launch we need to know if money's and permissions are in place to do so 2011-09-26T21:32:31 j3camero: so, we can launch soon, we have an amazon server going, ready for domain redirection 2011-09-26T21:32:50 Sweet. 2011-09-26T21:33:08 *** ibdknox_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2011-09-26T21:33:14 the way I'd like to host the main server would cost ~$250 US if the money is there for it 2011-09-26T21:33:14 j3camero: if you still want to do that non profit stuff, here's my idea 2011-09-26T21:33:21 per month 2011-09-26T21:33:46 j3camero: we could meet next weekend at your place, and get the directors thing going, if jbroman wants to 2011-09-26T21:33:54 j3camero: maybe have a little launch party 2011-09-26T21:34:03 Hmm this sounds intriguing. 2011-09-26T21:34:06 I don't believe I'm sufficiently involved at this point to make an appropriate director. 2011-09-26T21:34:11 Meeting in RL, hehe. 2011-09-26T21:34:47 Also my being a current Google employee may complicate things. 2011-09-26T21:34:57 jbroman: darn 2011-09-26T21:35:03 jbroman: but we need 3! 2011-09-26T21:35:06 Also, gathering people from Waterloo, Hamilton and Toronto for a meeting seems impractical. :P 2011-09-26T21:35:11 At this point I think what I will do is instead of tackling the creation of a non profit, it we'll just operate it the same way as in the past and home for no personal income tax issues. 2011-09-26T21:35:32 i don't mind coming over for that one time 2011-09-26T21:35:46 ok, sounds good then 2011-09-26T21:37:28 j3camero: k, so money? we interrupted janzert 2011-09-26T21:37:31 Okay, so what do we need... we need money, and permission to use Google's name again. I can advance both these things tomorrow. I will prepare a package to send to the relevant folks at Google and send it. To ensure that I actually do this, I also promise to send said package to the ai contest mailing list. So you'll know when it's been sent. 2011-09-26T21:38:02 great :) 2011-09-26T21:38:12 we want to launch Sunday 2011-09-26T21:38:24 shhh :P 2011-09-26T21:38:25 in 6 days 2011-09-26T21:38:57 well, anyday but sunday, i mean 2011-09-26T21:39:22 hehe 2011-09-26T21:39:49 j3camero: can you get that stuff done by Friday? 2011-09-26T21:41:54 I will get it in the mail tomorrow. 2011-09-26T21:42:12 j3camero: do you know how long it will take to get permission? 2011-09-26T21:42:14 We will see how long it takes to get someone at Google to carry out the concrete steps that it takes to secure funding. 2011-09-26T21:42:27 ok 2011-09-26T21:42:29 The permission should be quicker. 2011-09-26T21:42:39 so then, we launch when you say go? 2011-09-26T21:43:00 I don't imagine them having a problem with the event, given how smoothly and professionally its been in the past. 2011-09-26T21:43:16 also I would like to run the contest up to christmas break for north american uni's 2011-09-26T21:43:42 That sounds good to me. 2011-09-26T21:43:42 about 3 months? 2011-09-26T21:43:48 I like it 2011-09-26T21:43:50 * amstan can just see the ammount of people we're going to make miserable because they must code bots 2011-09-26T21:43:54 That will give lots of people a chance to take part. 2011-09-26T21:44:01 which means closing the open portion around the 12th of december and running finals for most or all of that week 2011-09-26T21:44:01 especially near xmas 2011-09-26T21:44:12 2.5 months about 2011-09-26T21:44:43 Is there an instance of the site running in a staging area somewhere? 2011-09-26T21:44:48 then they can all brag about their results when they're home on break :P 2011-09-26T21:44:50 Or someone have a decent dev instance up 2011-09-26T21:45:02 @beta 2011-09-26T21:45:03 janzert: beta could be http://aichallengebeta.hypertriangle.com/. 2011-09-26T21:45:25 Can I get an account for that? 2011-09-26T21:45:40 j3camero: go ahead 2011-09-26T21:45:43 Or do I just make one 2011-09-26T21:45:43 j3camero: or you mean ssh? 2011-09-26T21:45:44 Nice. 2011-09-26T21:45:49 Nope just web account. 2011-09-26T21:46:11 we made a semi-major change to the game yesterday, so the people that have been participating for 4+ months of beta shouldn't be too advantaged either :) 2011-09-26T21:46:18 janzert, McLeopold: you guys want to release that server as is, with no more mods, right? 2011-09-26T21:46:25 the objective now is to destroy the most hills 2011-09-26T21:46:34 hmm? 2011-09-26T21:46:35 amstan: not quite sure what you mean 2011-09-26T21:46:44 McLeopold: without any more account resets 2011-09-26T21:46:55 no, planning on doing a reset at launch 2011-09-26T21:47:00 Oh man... this account creation system... all written by hand in PHP... 2011-09-26T21:47:00 again? ok 2011-09-26T21:47:00 ^^ 2011-09-26T21:47:02 probably build a new server 2011-09-26T21:47:37 j3camero: if i had known we were to take 8 monts to release epsilon i would have been more persistent with django 2011-09-26T21:49:57 so, is there anymore agenda items? 2011-09-26T21:50:10 j3camero: party? 2011-09-26T21:50:23 Amstan I would have a launch party with you. 2011-09-26T21:50:24 not that I can think that we need j3camero for offhand 2011-09-26T21:50:45 I am just poking at the website. 2011-09-26T21:50:50 j3camero: i can also get computerwiz_222(site designer) in that 2011-09-26T21:51:24 Just submitted a starter package. However I'm not seeing much feedback on where its at. 2011-09-26T21:51:30 Are there game servers running? 2011-09-26T21:51:36 they should be 2011-09-26T21:51:48 http://antsbeta.janzert.com/server_stats.php doesn't look like it 2011-09-26T21:51:49 j3camero: check your profile page 2011-09-26T21:51:58 1 2011-09-27 01:49:21 Uploaded: ready to be unzipped and compiled - Unknown 2011-09-26T21:52:01 uh oh, looks like ec2 shut it down 2011-09-26T21:52:04 no games per minute, no workers registered 2011-09-26T21:52:20 Okay I have one more agenda item. 2011-09-26T21:52:33 spot price must have spiked 2011-09-26T21:52:38 janzert: so, should we decide on using a server that will always be up 2011-09-26T21:52:48 well, the main server yes 2011-09-26T21:52:54 As power users, we tend to focus a lot on tools, rules, specs, and the like. One thing that is an absolute prerequisite that we dont seem to have is decent tutorials. 2011-09-26T21:52:56 *** aarossig has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T21:53:27 j3camero: My goal this week is to write easy to read tutorials 2011-09-26T21:53:31 McLeopold: which the main server should be now 2011-09-26T21:53:47 I know a few others on irc will help vet out the tough stuff 2011-09-26T21:54:10 The standard in the past has been "a high school student with no programming experience should be able to submit a bot and improve it to some degree". I don't know if we'll get there given that this contest has more involved rules. But we need at least tutorials about how to submit a bot and climb the rankings. 2011-09-26T21:54:12 we could run one worker like that too, but then we could normally run 3 workers for the same price 2011-09-26T21:54:17 http://antsbeta.janzert.com/problem_description.php if you look at this page, you can see we will be able to put diagrams and sample games into the spec pages 2011-09-26T21:54:25 so I think the occasional, all workers go down is worth it 2011-09-26T21:54:39 good idea McLeopold. 2011-09-26T21:55:29 But yeah we can't talk about launch until we produce an extremely low-attrition process for transforming casual web surfers into contestants. Tutorials are a huge part of that. 2011-09-26T21:55:44 ok, good to know 2011-09-26T21:55:52 Well actually I would be happy with just a few tutorials. 2011-09-26T21:56:09 do you care which language? 2011-09-26T21:56:48 I would insist on C++, Java, Python, or C#. But I can see that its possible to do an amazing job with other languages. 2011-09-26T21:57:00 I single out those four because they are by far the most popular. 2011-09-26T21:57:01 4 tutorials? 2011-09-26T21:57:04 if I may, I'd have another point. not all starter bots are yet upgraded to support hills, using ones that don't (like Java) might be a lot harder on newcomers 2011-09-26T21:57:18 Not 4 tutorials. Just any one of those languages. Since almost any programmer can read them with ease. 2011-09-26T21:58:35 olexs: it should be pretty easy for someone to do those updates though, I'm hoping we'll get most all of them this week from contributors 2011-09-26T21:58:43 and even the non-updated ones will still run 2011-09-26T21:59:02 it just won't be as easy for a beginner to make progress with them 2011-09-26T21:59:09 Okay who wants to pick a launch date? Let's pick a date in two weeks ish and just launch this thang. 2011-09-26T21:59:29 Google-branded or not. Google-funded or not. 2011-09-26T21:59:42 Oct 2 2011-09-26T21:59:44 :) 2011-09-26T21:59:44 Even without Google funding I believe it's possible to run this thing on a shoestring budget. 2011-09-26T21:59:47 j3camero: what is the connection that we have with google? I have always been curious. 2011-09-26T21:59:51 well, we need funding of some sort 2011-09-26T21:59:58 yeah, idea was for Oct 2 2011-09-26T22:00:01 it's a little too much for me to fund myself ;) 2011-09-26T22:00:28 Yeah it would be steep. 2011-09-26T22:00:36 Oct 2 would be cool, I want to put the web design on my resume for some co-op interviews :P 2011-09-26T22:00:36 I can fund the beta server myself for another week or two but beyond that I can't keep it up 2011-09-26T22:00:41 j3camero: how do you feel about selling ad space? 2011-09-26T22:00:41 What did we say the game servers would be? Like $600/mth for three? 2011-09-26T22:01:21 since we're on ads, apparently reddit offers free ads for not for profit things, maybe we can get a bunch on r/programming 2011-09-26T22:01:33 if the worker is portable, is it possible to donate CPU time? does this violate some kind of rule for the contest? 2011-09-26T22:01:51 aarossig: the workers should be uniform 2011-09-26T22:01:54 workers are ~$125 per and the main server ~$250 2011-09-26T22:02:01 I'll write an article about the contest on a big russian IT blog. The planetwars challenge was pretty popular there. 2011-09-26T22:02:07 amstan: can we get some help from school maybe? 2011-09-26T22:02:09 aarossig: I would love to be able to take you up on that. Really. But there's enough people who feel that the workers must be very fair and even. 2011-09-26T22:02:19 olexs: wait for amstan to do that 2011-09-26T22:02:43 McLeopold: do what? 2011-09-26T22:02:49 make anouncements 2011-09-26T22:02:53 mcleopold: I'm not publishing anything before you launch :) 2011-09-26T22:02:59 j3camero: understabdable, i had considered the issues associated with using varying systems -- it would be near impossible to benchmark the system to give an accurate time per move that is proportional to available CPU power 2011-09-26T22:03:18 olexs: you can write it and i'll give you a ping when we're launching 2011-09-26T22:03:29 amstan: that'd be great. 2011-09-26T22:03:43 janzert: supposing that the costs of the contest are somewhere in the range of under $1000/mth, I think that we can go ahead no matter what. That is, we could say its a go right here right now without any further information. 2011-09-26T22:03:48 worker is back, btw 2011-09-26T22:04:05 j3camero: what if we get one of those gay paypal donate buttons lol 2011-09-26T22:04:08 aarossig: on a side note, we need the top header to be shrunk quite a bit 2011-09-26T22:04:12 ok, yes I can keep it less than that for sure 2011-09-26T22:04:38 Between funding it out of my own pocket and dealing 1 on 1 with the odd person who wants to pitch $100, it shoudl be manageable. I'm just saying this as last-resort kind of thinging. That is, we can pick a launch date now even though we dont yet know how the Google funding will be. 2011-09-26T22:04:58 we might come across someone who cares about the contest and donates some money to help us out 2011-09-26T22:05:19 j3camero: we still need permission otherwise we'll have to grep for "Google" and remove 2011-09-26T22:05:27 Yes for sure. 2011-09-26T22:05:35 then let's launch next Sunday evening 2011-09-26T22:05:43 can someone enlighten me on the Google situation? 2011-09-26T22:05:57 aarossig: they are big and in control of EVERYTHING 2011-09-26T22:05:57 Permission to use the same brand as we have in the past is unlikely to be an issue. But yes I do need to get the formal OK for that. 2011-09-26T22:06:01 oh, that's what we need j3camero for :) 2011-09-26T22:06:22 we'll need you around to do the dns change at that point 2011-09-26T22:06:26 got it, I thought there was some kind of rumor that google would not allow us to continue using the branding 2011-09-26T22:06:43 aarossig: no, it's just that we have to ping them every time 2011-09-26T22:06:47 great 2011-09-26T22:06:59 aarossig: the contest was originally created by the Computer Science Club at Waterloo. Many of the members there have interned at Google including myself and jbroman. So they have pitched us a small bit of money in the past to run the contest servers. 2011-09-26T22:07:20 j3camero: very cool -- I am understanding now 2011-09-26T22:07:37 I can start bringing the final server up around 6pm EST and it will most likely be ready to go by 9pm at the latest 2011-09-26T22:08:24 I would love to get a visualizer for web traffic that runs in a terminal -- once the contest is launched we can watch the traffic roll in (something prettier than tail -f access.log) 2011-09-26T22:08:36 janzert: speaking of what we need j3camero for. Past experience has shown that in year since I started working full time, I have been a terrible day to day manager of this project. This I regret, since I really love the project. Since I want to see it succeed once again, I propose it might be wise to appoint someone else to run it day to day. Someone who can make key decisions in my absense. Just so I don't sink it by being absent for a 2011-09-26T22:09:20 well, we've been able to work most everything out between amstan, McLeopold and myself since June 2011-09-26T22:09:29 Awesome. 2011-09-26T22:09:41 j3camero: except the parts where money or domain jiggling is required 2011-09-26T22:09:52 that's why we couldn't launch on our own 2011-09-26T22:09:57 and google permissions* 2011-09-26T22:09:58 the only things we can't do are the money, name issues and dns 2011-09-26T22:10:00 Right right. 2011-09-26T22:10:50 amstan: I would like to see that task split to two people so that any issus that arise don't have to be put in on a list until they are available 2011-09-26T22:11:12 aarossig: it's 3 ppl so there's no split votes 2011-09-26T22:11:14 look at that j3camero bottom of the rankings :P 2011-09-26T22:11:17 or worse... something happens and they are simply unable to work on the contest at all -- yeah 2011-09-26T22:11:25 haha my bot sucks 2011-09-26T22:11:26 lol! j3camero is the dumbest bot 2011-09-26T22:11:43 Wow I can't believe Reddit hasn't found this beta site. There are people who would kill for another Google AI Challenge. 2011-09-26T22:11:48 lol 2011-09-26T22:12:05 j3camero: our github got reddited 2 months ago 2011-09-26T22:12:15 well we had over 400 active accounts before the reset yesterady 2011-09-26T22:12:15 j3camero: got a bunch of ppl on irc and stuff 2011-09-26T22:12:22 you know who has? baiduspider 2011-09-26T22:12:22 Haha nice nice. 2011-09-26T22:12:27 and I think the game is much more interesting now :) 2011-09-26T22:12:41 oh yeah.. and such a crappy server we had, it was only $7/month 2011-09-26T22:12:47 amstan: hey, it worked 2011-09-26T22:12:48 Okay I will send off some letters tomorrow to shake our tin cup. 2011-09-26T22:13:03 are you getting sponsorship from google this time? 2011-09-26T22:13:05 amstan: I dare say my pentium 4 server would have been better 2011-09-26T22:13:07 *** a1k0n_ is now known as a1k0n 2011-09-26T22:13:30 aarossig: in pw the main server was worse than yours 2011-09-26T22:13:37 you should have done the contest site in appengine 2011-09-26T22:13:46 janzert: why would we launch on a Sunday? 2011-09-26T22:13:53 a1k0n: appengine can't really do what we're doing 2011-09-26T22:14:00 j3camero: can someone have access to create A records for dns? 2011-09-26T22:14:01 yeah, i know. unless you require everybody to write python. 2011-09-26T22:14:04 i was kidding. 2011-09-26T22:14:06 lol 2011-09-26T22:14:09 a1k0n: they're too limited, only having go and python 2011-09-26T22:14:16 it's just a good time for McLeopold and I to get together to get it rolling 2011-09-26T22:14:18 oh there's go? well, that's all you need 2011-09-26T22:14:18 amstan: pw? 2011-09-26T22:14:20 or can you create some for us? tron.ai-contest.com, pw., ants. 2011-09-26T22:14:34 j3camero: i can handle dns if you want 2011-09-26T22:14:36 a1k0n: I can do you one better. The google AI Challenge is now a Facebook app. Just like Farmville1 2011-09-26T22:14:43 haha. nooooooooo 2011-09-26T22:14:44 j3camero: dude, no 2011-09-26T22:14:48 worse api ever 2011-09-26T22:14:51 worst* 2011-09-26T22:14:57 Yeah I got no problem letting people control the domain. 2011-09-26T22:15:00 google+ game? 2011-09-26T22:15:20 amstan, janzert, whoever wants to. 2011-09-26T22:15:25 j3camero: i can do it 2011-09-26T22:15:29 Yup. 2011-09-26T22:15:55 Okay so why don't we launch this baby on a Friday night? 2011-09-26T22:16:12 j3camero: yeah, i was lurking on #csc 2011-09-26T22:16:15 That way the lot of us can actually stay up late into the night should the web server get crushed or other problems hahppen. 2011-09-26T22:16:16 j3camero: uw has a code party 2011-09-26T22:16:19 j3camero: that would be awesome 2011-09-26T22:16:28 j3camero: on friday 2011-09-26T22:16:33 amstan: then we don't have to come home early on sunday 2011-09-26T22:16:48 McLeopold: what do you think? 2011-09-26T22:16:53 umm... 2011-09-26T22:17:00 Code party is an awesome time to launch a contest. 2011-09-26T22:17:08 You could have a live traffic graph up and such. 2011-09-26T22:17:20 j3camero: except only jbroman's at uwaterloo from here 2011-09-26T22:17:25 j3camero: I was thinking about doing something..... no commitment from me yet though 2011-09-26T22:17:28 maybe, if we get the tutorial and starters going 2011-09-26T22:18:27 McLeopold: won't starters be fairly easy? just email everyone that made starters to update their stuff 2011-09-26T22:18:47 amstan: yes, starters are easy to update 2011-09-26T22:19:18 just reading 'h' lines, storing the info somehow, no logic change 2011-09-26T22:19:23 hmm, I'm not sure how well this Friday will work. I guess if all the permissions come in and it looks like everything else is actually ready I can see how my schedule is looking 2011-09-26T22:19:52 I was thinking the Friday after next. 2011-09-26T22:20:00 Very little odds that we will be ready this Friday. 2011-09-26T22:20:03 j3camero: that's no code party then 2011-09-26T22:20:13 oh *a* Friday night 2011-09-26T22:20:26 well, if we're not ready by this Friday we probably aren't ready by this Sunday either? 2011-09-26T22:20:29 yeah, that feels beter 2011-09-26T22:20:42 but ok, if we can't hit this Sunday I'd be fine with next Friday 2011-09-26T22:20:55 Why Sunday? 2011-09-26T22:21:07 work during the weekend probably 2011-09-26T22:21:09 Just so it goes live Monday when there is little traffic? 2011-09-26T22:21:12 if we go for next friday you give me a little time to think about a realtime traffic visualizer 2011-09-26T22:21:22 that's a good reason too :P 2011-09-26T22:21:22 so, the 7th to the 10th I'm going to be gone 2011-09-26T22:21:33 that won't work then 2011-09-26T22:21:36 damn. 2011-09-26T22:21:37 saturday? 2011-09-26T22:21:43 this one 2011-09-26T22:22:14 I'll be mostly unavailable 12-15th, but hopefully we're launched by then 2011-09-26T22:22:23 I think less than a week is a bit soon. 2011-09-26T22:22:55 Janzert how are you Thurs the 13th? 2011-09-26T22:23:13 in the middle of a big show, but I don't know my full schedule for it yet 2011-09-26T22:23:22 Here's my angle: everyone reads about it on Reddit on Friday morning and afternoon, and starts working on Saturday. 2011-09-26T22:23:25 ugg, that's so far away 2011-09-26T22:23:27 amstan: are we running the current version of apache on the servers? 2011-09-26T22:23:36 aarossig: yes, natty 2011-09-26T22:23:45 amstan: great, thanks -- i'll use those logs for reference. 2011-09-26T22:23:48 well.. bottom line, if it's not this weekend, then it's the 21st 2011-09-26T22:23:49 j3camero: but, it can still be live for 4 days before that? 2011-09-26T22:24:03 amstan or middle of next possibly 2011-09-26T22:24:13 *** eashoka has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T22:24:57 I guess there's no reason not to launch this upcoming weekend, as long as the tutorials are nice and polished by then. 2011-09-26T22:24:59 janzert: FYI, the worker is down again 2011-09-26T22:24:59 maybe next Wednesday 2011-09-26T22:25:13 Does anyone want to commit to a tutorial or two before this Friday? 2011-09-26T22:25:28 Next Wednesday could work. 2011-09-26T22:25:49 ChrisH: looks like ec2 took it down again, spot prices have been really funky today 2011-09-26T22:25:56 first time in months 2011-09-26T22:26:11 maybe it's a yearly cycle? 2011-09-26T22:26:54 antimatroid: wanna make tutorials? 2011-09-26T22:27:00 Sorry janzert I meant Thursday the 6th of Oct. 2011-09-26T22:27:10 How do that work for you? 2011-09-26T22:27:26 I'm okay with the 6th 2011-09-26T22:27:38 at this point any day except Monday next week should work for me 2011-09-26T22:27:42 I guess if we launch when the both of us have decent amount of time, then I can get trained up on how to keep it running as well. 2011-09-26T22:28:14 mostly it's just fire and forget 2011-09-26T22:28:28 mostly just code changes break it at this point 2011-09-26T22:28:52 janzert: does ec2 bring it back automatically when prices drop again? 2011-09-26T22:28:52 Okay, so I propose launching in the evening of Thurs, Oct 6, EST. Any reason we shoudl not do this? 2011-09-26T22:29:11 sounds fine with me 2011-09-26T22:29:44 what about the launch party? 2011-09-26T22:30:02 Between now and then, I will do my best to get the Google brand and a bit of cash for running servers. Event absent either of those, we can still proceed. 2011-09-26T22:30:07 amstan: will you be setting up new forums on the final server? 2011-09-26T22:30:18 amstan: I will have to coordinate with the CSC to organize a launch party, if they care. 2011-09-26T22:30:20 janzert: yes, i'll also get them updated 2011-09-26T22:30:25 ok 2011-09-26T22:30:37 j3camero: see if jbroman's interested 2011-09-26T22:30:43 Yeah good idea. 2011-09-26T22:30:49 we could probably close the old ones and point something like planetwars.ai-contest.com at the current site? 2011-09-26T22:31:09 janzert: what size is the old site? 2011-09-26T22:31:13 Okay guys I am heading to bed. I have to get up at an ungodly hour. 2011-09-26T22:31:18 j3camero: cya 2011-09-26T22:31:21 huge :/ 2011-09-26T22:31:26 janzert: yeah.. that's the problem 2011-09-26T22:31:30 I don't remember exactly 2011-09-26T22:31:34 * janzert nods 2011-09-26T22:31:52 is there a way to remove the games that are not linked on the site anymore? 2011-09-26T22:32:17 I think they're all linked one way or another 2011-09-26T22:32:24 sigh 2011-09-26T22:32:33 how huge are we talking about? 2011-09-26T22:32:36 10s of GB? 2011-09-26T22:32:41 just sec 2011-09-26T22:33:06 53GB for the database 2011-09-26T22:33:19 that's with the old leaderboards though 2011-09-26T22:33:41 oh, and games table 2011-09-26T22:33:42 i guess 2011-09-26T22:33:44 games are 50GB 2011-09-26T22:34:06 is archival without games acceptable? 2011-09-26T22:34:15 Maybe dump the games to some huge compressed text file and create a torrent for it. Then the game replays would just 404 on the site and probably no one cares. 2011-09-26T22:34:17 is there a way to archive the games? 2011-09-26T22:34:31 j3camero: who would seed? 2011-09-26T22:34:44 not currently there isn't 2011-09-26T22:34:47 Always the problem with torrents, eh. 2011-09-26T22:34:47 amstan: I volunteer 2011-09-26T22:34:52 aarossig: lol 2011-09-26T22:34:55 though it will be slow 2011-09-26T22:35:13 aarossig: that's 50 HD episodes.. 2011-09-26T22:35:21 aarossig: that you could be storing instead 2011-09-26T22:35:31 amstan: there is no better feeling that uploading way more than my download on an asynchronous connection 2011-09-26T22:35:53 amstan: I doubt anyone will ever download it, but if they do I will leave it seeding 2011-09-26T22:36:28 janzert: as long as the old server remains, and i have a place to put the archive server, it should be fairly easy 2011-09-26T22:37:08 aren't the replays in the database? 2011-09-26T22:37:21 McLeopold: right, that's why it's 53GB 2011-09-26T22:37:22 McLeopold: i think we moved them out in the middle of the contest last time 2011-09-26T22:37:26 nope 2011-09-26T22:37:38 well, still 2011-09-26T22:37:39 they were only stored in the database for the whole contest 2011-09-26T22:37:42 games without replays are kinda useless 2011-09-26T22:38:17 php served the replay data embedded in the html page with the visualizer 2011-09-26T22:38:40 myisampack 2011-09-26T22:38:51 McLeopold: perfect 2011-09-26T22:38:58 that solves the space issue 2011-09-26T22:39:06 what about where to put it? 2011-09-26T22:39:11 main server? buy another server? 2011-09-26T22:39:28 I guess see how big it ends up being 2011-09-26T22:39:43 I have >700GB available, I would be willing to archive it for a year a least 2011-09-26T22:39:52 janzert: i also want to get tron and rps 2011-09-26T22:39:53 I'd rather stick it on a different server than the current contest main server 2011-09-26T22:39:54 aarossig: that doesn't mean fast access... but access nonetheless 2011-09-26T22:40:14 aarossig: it's supposed to be reliable though 2011-09-26T22:40:34 it should fairly be low traffic to all the old contests so should be good on a smaller server 2011-09-26T22:40:35 amstan: well.. i'm about 90% reliable, but your call 2011-09-26T22:41:51 janzert: well, i need someone to buy me a server and i can set all this up nicely 2011-09-26T22:42:05 or maybe i should ask j3camero 2011-09-26T22:42:32 yep, probably as soon as he finds out what sort of funding he has 2011-09-26T22:49:05 janzert: earlier we were talking about whether the server should send the bots information about how many ants are in a hive waiting to spawn. This might be really important if the bot has no way to know the order of the hives on a multi hive map. 2011-09-26T22:49:33 you're "spawn queue 2011-09-26T22:49:37 " is global 2011-09-26T22:49:54 i.e. there is one hive, even if you have multiple hills 2011-09-26T22:50:19 I believe thats why the distinction in terminology between hive and hill 2011-09-26T22:50:38 ok, I hadn't realized that nuance. but strategically it could matter which hill gets the next spawning ant 2011-09-26T22:51:07 the one last occupied by a friendly ant, so the bot can control where the next spawn happens 2011-09-26T22:51:15 ties are broken randomly 2011-09-26T22:51:19 interesting. 2011-09-26T22:51:55 but then, why don't they just keep spawning from the same hill, as that would be the last one to have a friendly ant (the previous spawn) 2011-09-26T22:52:07 will only one ant spawn in a turn, or can multiple ants from the hive spawn at once on multiple hills? 2011-09-26T22:52:18 only one spawn per turn 2011-09-26T22:53:39 ChrisH: yeah, without active bot intervention that is what would happen 2011-09-26T22:54:27 one spawn per hill per turn 2011-09-26T22:54:29 That's not what I see in replays,. 2011-09-26T22:54:38 and I have a solution to xathis's delima 2011-09-26T22:54:47 i'm interested 2011-09-26T22:54:53 The spawn rotate through each hill in a sequence. 2011-09-26T22:55:07 if your ant dies on your own hill, the hill is destroyed 2011-09-26T22:55:22 that's clever 2011-09-26T22:55:56 but what if you put ants not directly in attacking distance but 1 more 2011-09-26T22:56:25 McLeopold: I don't think xathis dilemna works though 2011-09-26T22:56:46 why not? 2011-09-26T22:56:49 McLeopold: Doesn't that make destroying a hill too easy? 2011-09-26T22:56:51 so long as the bot steps its ant off the other hill right away the next ant should keep spawning at the safe hill 2011-09-26T22:57:23 and yeah, that fix might be worse than the problem 2011-09-26T22:57:32 janzert: Your explanation doesn't match the current implementation. 2011-09-26T22:57:50 hmm, well it's my understanding of the way it was supposed to work 2011-09-26T22:58:03 maybe I got it wrong, McLeopold came up with that mechanic 2011-09-26T22:58:26 xathis: then, the hill owner can stay on the hill and prevent spawning 2011-09-26T22:58:55 *** olexs has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2011-09-26T22:59:10 janzert: I think you are backwards 2011-09-26T22:59:12 McLeopold: yeah you're right this sounds good 2011-09-26T22:59:36 hmm? 2011-09-26T22:59:40 *** nullkuhl has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2011-09-26T22:59:42 McLeopold: so the squatter alternates killing the ant on top of the hill and standing back. 2011-09-26T22:59:48 it's least recently stepped on that spawns? 2011-09-26T23:00:18 *** rofer is now known as construction_wor 2011-09-26T23:00:25 *** construction_wor is now known as rofer 2011-09-26T23:01:13 I think that would make it impossible to stop xathis' attack then 2011-09-26T23:01:46 without a rescue force 2011-09-26T23:01:55 yes 2011-09-26T23:02:24 even if it works I'm not sure how serious of a problem it will be in practice 2011-09-26T23:02:46 but under a "xanthis attack" its harder to construct one because your spawn are being siphoned off. 2011-09-26T23:02:55 if it is a real problem I'd rather reverse the spawn order than make a dieing ant on the hill destroy the hill 2011-09-26T23:03:02 *** antiuni has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T23:03:24 it's alright. if your enemy has control over your hill you just leace one of your ants on it. So while the enemy isn't attacking the ant, new ants will spawn at other hills. and if he attack it, than your hill is destroyed 2011-09-26T23:03:32 *leave 2011-09-26T23:04:15 xathis: that's not good when you have only one hill, now the enemy can destroy your hill even if you have a large reserve in the hive. 2011-09-26T23:05:18 * janzert nods 2011-09-26T23:05:28 chrisH: that's true, so this should probably not happen with the last hill of any player 2011-09-26T23:05:35 who cares about 1 hill, your dead anyway 2011-09-26T23:05:40 your ants have to spawn there 2011-09-26T23:06:02 yeah, I'd rather the hive has to be emptied out before the hill can be destroyed at least in the single hill case 2011-09-26T23:06:41 the only other solution is to introduce a new order type that let's you specify open hills 2011-09-26T23:06:50 I care if I have reinforcements on the way that can drive off two the enemy ants before my hive is emptied. 2011-09-26T23:07:23 ChrisH: the point is, the enemy has control of your hill, and you wont be able to save it anyway 2011-09-26T23:07:25 Then the bot still has a chance to survie. 2011-09-26T23:07:44 what are the disadvantages of reversing the spawn order to most recent occupied wins? 2011-09-26T23:08:00 the hill is effectively dead at that point, we are preventing them from siphoning your hive 2011-09-26T23:08:10 naive bots will all spawn at the same location, but I'm not sure that is a big deal 2011-09-26T23:08:12 Sure you can save it. The enemy has two ants squatting on your last hill, and you have 10 ants 5 spaces away, you could take out the 2 squatters and liberate your hill 2011-09-26T23:08:14 janzert: you can't ever switch 2011-09-26T23:08:35 sure you can, stay on the active hill for one turn or step on another one 2011-09-26T23:08:39 *** ibdknox has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T23:08:49 ChrisH: no, the 2 squaters see you coming and step on the hill 2011-09-26T23:09:00 you've then made that your active hill 2011-09-26T23:09:13 I'm also not opposed to an explicit order by the way 2011-09-26T23:09:18 They can't step on it if there are a bunch of ants coming out of it, more than the 5 turns it takes your rescue force to arrive. 2011-09-26T23:09:42 ChrisH: 1 ant at a time, you move in at the same distance and don't take a loss 2011-09-26T23:09:51 spawn is after battle and raze 2011-09-26T23:10:08 and I'm also still not seeing anything that interesting in multi-hill maps either :} 2011-09-26T23:10:28 if the hill has 2 enemies in attack range, and reinforcements are not, the hill is just gone 2011-09-26T23:10:52 McLeopold: I'm assuming there are already spawned ants nearby that can force the enemy ants to retreat. I'm not understanding your point. 2011-09-26T23:10:57 janzert: we don't have properly mixed hills yet 2011-09-26T23:11:26 I meant the idea in general really 2011-09-26T23:11:34 if they are within attack range, the squatters would have died already 2011-09-26T23:12:26 McLeopold: Here is my scenario: 100 ants in the hive being killed off one at a time by 2 enemy squatters, with 10 friendly ants within 5 turns of the hill. 2011-09-26T23:12:31 I'd really rather not make it easier to have a hill killed though 2011-09-26T23:13:04 I'd prefer the explicit order or reversing the spawn order of the three 2011-09-26T23:13:12 I argue that those 10 friendly ants can kill or drive off the 2 squatters before all 100 ants are dead and (under the current rules) the enemy could step on the hill. 2011-09-26T23:13:20 janzert: sorry if this has been answered, reading logs, why would the game end if only one bot had a hill left? 2011-09-26T23:13:27 *** eashoka has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2011-09-26T23:13:28 shouldn't the remaining enemy ants get to try and take that hill out? 2011-09-26T23:13:53 is the plan still to give a list of first-time-seen land, like we get for water? 2011-09-26T23:14:21 it's sort of a compromise between completely removing a bot if all of their hills are destroyed and leaving them fully in the game 2011-09-26T23:14:37 antiuni: only if the 1 ant with the hill is behind and can actually take the lead 2011-09-26T23:14:53 or improve their rank? 2011-09-26T23:14:55 ...does the game continue 2011-09-26T23:15:18 wouldn't it be if the ant without hills can take the lead? 2011-09-26T23:15:26 as they can score more points by taking out the remaining hill 2011-09-26T23:15:32 and take points off the bot with a hill 2011-09-26T23:15:42 basically the bots that don't have a hill left can still control their remaining ants and try to win still but they don't get to keep the game continuing on 2011-09-26T23:16:02 ah okay 2011-09-26T23:16:37 ChrisH: so, the xathis delima is that 2 ants can sit at a hill, killing all ants that spawn there without losses. There is no saving the hill in this situation. If you had ants close enough, they would be dead already. If you move to kill them, they can just step on the hill and destroy it. There is just no saving the hill in that situation. 2011-09-26T23:16:42 McLeopold: if there is only 1 ant with a hill left that ant can't gain any more points 2011-09-26T23:17:06 as soon as there is only one ant with hill(s) the game should end regardless 2011-09-26T23:17:27 it's actually the lone survivor ending 2011-09-26T23:17:30 janzert: right, I was thinking of 2 bots left, 1 ant hill left and the current leader has already lost its hill 2011-09-26T23:17:47 so it needs to defend until max turns 2011-09-26T23:17:55 McLeopold: There is no guarantee that the rescue force is already dead, and how can one of the enemies step on the hill if it is still spawning? 2011-09-26T23:18:07 I'd say the game should still end right away 2011-09-26T23:18:10 no the squatters would already be dead 2011-09-26T23:18:34 if the leader lost his hill he lost the position to force the game to continue 2011-09-26T23:18:46 Why is that, the rescue force is still 5 turns out of range for killing them. 2011-09-26T23:18:57 janzert: but then he can suicide to force a win 2011-09-26T23:19:08 who? 2011-09-26T23:19:14 the leader? 2011-09-26T23:19:32 the guy behind can't catch up anyway 2011-09-26T23:19:35 ChrisH: if the rescue force is 5 turns out of range, then the squatters will see the rescue and just step on the hill 2011-09-26T23:19:43 there isn't anything for him to catch up with 2011-09-26T23:19:45 the squatters get to destroy the hill no matter what 2011-09-26T23:20:20 janzert: if there is a bot with a hill that can still gain in rank, then the game continues, otherwise it ends 2011-09-26T23:20:21 McLeopold: but there are still 100 ants in the hive, I didn't think they could step on the hill if it is spawning. (We're talking about the last hill for the defender here.) 2011-09-26T23:20:41 ChrisH: you can step on a hill at any time, the hive count doesn't matter 2011-09-26T23:21:00 ChrisH: one spawn at a hill per turn, after attack and raze 2011-09-26T23:21:04 although it can be very expensive 2011-09-26T23:21:20 McLeopold: Oh, that's my misunderstanding. 2011-09-26T23:21:32 cool :) 2011-09-26T23:21:32 or maybe not 2011-09-26T23:21:59 but move comes before attack, right? 2011-09-26T23:22:11 yes 2011-09-26T23:22:15 McLeopold: add an explicit order the bot can give and be done with it :) 2011-09-26T23:22:45 janzert: it works, it doesn't change the game hardly at all 2011-09-26T23:22:49 it will probably save us a lot of explaining 2011-09-26T23:23:01 if an enemy ant is near your hill, the hill should be gone anyway, you need to defend 2011-09-26T23:23:11 let me just play this out one step at a time to make sure I'm clear, (please bear with me) 2011-09-26T23:23:29 sry, I really need to go 2011-09-26T23:23:30 Assume I have an ant on top of my hill holding in the 100 reserves. 2011-09-26T23:23:38 can we put this in a github issue? 2011-09-26T23:23:40 when the two squatters arrive. 2011-09-26T23:24:11 we can chat another time 2011-09-26T23:24:14 oik 2011-09-26T23:24:17 *** McLeopold has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2011-09-26T23:29:44 *** amstan_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T23:29:44 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan_ 2011-09-26T23:30:51 *** delt0r_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2011-09-26T23:39:42 aichallenge: janzert epsilon * r5104ffc / ants/ants.py : Bot must be alive and control a hill to keep the game going - http://git.io/1AKqJg 2011-09-26T23:39:42 aichallenge: janzert epsilon * r09273cd / website/game_list.php : Merge branch 'epsilon' of github.com:aichallenge/aichallenge into epsilon - http://git.io/G9evJw 2011-09-26T23:40:40 McLeopold: I' 2011-09-26T23:40:48 ll get working on tutorials with you too later if you want 2011-09-26T23:43:00 *** delt0r_ has joined #aichallenge 2011-09-26T23:44:14 aichallenge: janzert epsilon * r8f86de3 / website/index.php : Add link to game list on front page - http://git.io/_4-bog 2011-09-26T23:47:00 *** Cyndre has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2011-09-26T23:47:00 *** Cyndre_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)