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2012-01-02T03:19:21 ie, the aichallenge system accepts untrusted code - how does it ensure execution safety? 2012-01-02T03:19:43 amstan: poke, I'm told you might know 2012-01-02T03:20:28 lahwran: see worker/ 2012-01-02T03:20:35 lahwran: there's a ton of code about sandboxing in there 2012-01-02T03:20:42 worker/ in what? 2012-01-02T03:20:46 @repo 2012-01-02T03:20:47 amstan: repo could be https://github.com/aichallenge/aichallenge. 2012-01-02T03:20:53 alrighty 2012-01-02T03:21:18 amstan: where's the entry point in worker/? 2012-01-02T03:21:44 worker.py 2012-01-02T03:21:48 but that's fairly high level 2012-01-02T03:21:57 alright, thanks 2012-01-02T03:22:17 *** grc48 has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T03:22:35 it goes something like this, might not be correct: worker.py>engine(also uses ants)>sandbox>yourbot 2012-01-02T03:22:57 compiler.py also gets used somewhere in there 2012-01-02T03:23:14 we might also be refactoring all of this for the next contest 2012-01-02T03:23:18 but that's what was used for ants 2012-01-02T03:23:46 for specific stuff ask janzert/mcleopold 2012-01-02T03:23:55 ah, so it's not virtualization-based 2012-01-02T03:24:03 no 2012-01-02T03:24:11 we didn't want to do that because it would be kinda slow 2012-01-02T03:24:17 and we're already virtualized by ec2 2012-01-02T03:24:28 were there any issues with people breaking out of the sandbox? 2012-01-02T03:24:36 not that we know of 2012-01-02T03:24:57 interesting 2012-01-02T03:25:53 how fast was startup/teardown of the sandbox? insignificant? second or two? 2012-01-02T03:26:07 it was fairly fast 2012-01-02T03:26:25 you can play with all of this btw, if you have an ubuntu vm handy 2012-01-02T03:26:36 I'm on ubuntu natively 2012-01-02T03:26:58 yeah, but this stuff takes over your system, you should get another install 2012-01-02T03:27:01 ah 2012-01-02T03:27:14 I've been hacking on the pypy sandbox lately, got it down to about a half second total runtime on an empty script 2012-01-02T03:27:28 *** Fandekasp has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T03:28:06 amstan: are we rewriting in c++ if we do? 2012-01-02T03:28:16 antimatroid: why? 2012-01-02T03:28:33 i saw someone saying something about writing something in c++ next time for speed 2012-01-02T03:28:39 maybe just the game engines 2012-01-02T03:29:03 the only issues we had with speed was mysql 2012-01-02T03:29:24 anything else was relatively fast 2012-01-02T03:29:44 hmmm okay 2012-01-02T03:30:04 i'm going to try and learn more about the backend stuff in the next few montsh 2012-01-02T03:30:15 and how to actually use tools :P 2012-01-02T03:30:33 *** dorisabayon has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2012-01-02T03:45:25 *** mviel_ has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T03:57:11 *** smjms has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T03:58:04 *** Paradoxial has quit IRC (Quit: :) 2012-01-02T04:02:19 *** nha has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T04:06:51 *** Fandekasp has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2012-01-02T04:10:16 *** codetiger has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T04:10:39 *** codetiger has left #aichallenge 2012-01-02T04:21:57 *** treeform has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-01-02T04:23:00 *** flowenol has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T04:24:51 *** flowenol has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2012-01-02T04:26:59 *** kilae has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T04:37:11 *** chris__0076 has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T04:37:42 *** Chris_0076 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2012-01-02T04:37:50 *** chris__0076 is now known as chris_0076 2012-01-02T04:38:49 *** nha has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2012-01-02T04:50:33 *** codetiger has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T05:11:50 *** cyphase has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T05:15:59 *** codetiger has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-01-02T05:18:32 *** Jak_o_Shadows1 has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T05:21:21 *** Jak_o_Shadows has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2012-01-02T05:25:50 *** mleise has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T05:29:10 *** aerique has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T06:00:09 *** amstan has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2012-01-02T06:03:53 *** epicmonkey has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T06:11:20 *** mcstar has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T06:20:46 *** epicmonkey has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2012-01-02T06:23:44 *** alehorst has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T06:57:30 *** grc48 has left #aichallenge ("Leaving") 2012-01-02T06:57:31 *** mleise has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2012-01-02T07:26:29 *** UncleVasya has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T07:27:23 antimatroid, check it out http://www.game-theory-class.org/ ;) 2012-01-02T07:35:14 *** Jak_o_Shadows1 has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-01-02T07:38:00 *** ikaros has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T07:46:24 UncleVasya: can you write this in a simpler way in ocaml? http://codepad.org/prXLnKQk 2012-01-02T07:46:45 the important part is the nextPerm function 2012-01-02T07:46:54 the other functions just drive this 2012-01-02T07:47:26 it generates the next lexicographic permutation of a list with orderable elements 2012-01-02T07:47:35 (SEPA algorithm) 2012-01-02T07:55:34 *** Kurnevsky has quit IRC (Quit: Instantbird 1.0) 2012-01-02T07:55:37 no, I'm too stupid for this. 2012-01-02T07:56:49 :( 2012-01-02T07:56:51 youre not 2012-01-02T07:57:27 it would be more than easy to do it in a mutable way 2012-01-02T07:57:48 really, if you look in my code yo'll see that there are no data structures and algoritms. 2012-01-02T07:57:49 but in haskell, doing it purely functinally, its a PITA 2012-01-02T07:58:27 In fact, there are only 2 algoritmic things: buuble sort that I found in Google 2012-01-02T07:58:53 and BFS --> that I coded by myself for the first time (and very proud :D) 2012-01-02T07:59:38 you are a peculiar guy 2012-01-02T08:00:01 you said there are no algorithms, yet you cite 2 important ones 2012-01-02T08:00:16 you say no data structures, but i bet there are lists and arrays 2012-01-02T08:01:08 anyway, if you think you are "too stupid for this" then pls try doing it 2012-01-02T08:01:29 I meant developed by myself 2012-01-02T08:01:30 id be interested in your solution, i know you can do it, the algorithm is simple 2012-01-02T08:01:52 If I'd need to write my own list implementation --> I can't do it 2012-01-02T08:02:12 ok, I'll try 2012-01-02T08:02:33 a list just needs a contructor, and the representation for the empty list, i.e. another constructor 2012-01-02T08:02:35 When I'll be at home (4+ hours) 2012-01-02T08:02:47 ok 2012-01-02T08:03:08 pls, try to do it wo mutation ok? 2012-01-02T08:03:18 I'll read about algorithm, I'll find c++ implementation and will base my work on it. 2012-01-02T08:03:35 Or you need that haskell implementation to be translated? 2012-01-02T08:03:42 no 2012-01-02T08:03:45 write your own 2012-01-02T08:03:50 but not mutate state 2012-01-02T08:03:57 not->dont 2012-01-02T08:04:19 so pls dont "translate" the c version to ocaml 2012-01-02T08:04:22 thats pointless 2012-01-02T08:04:42 ok, my instrumentary will be only articles about algorithm and Geany :) 2012-01-02T08:05:17 btw, probably this is the algorithm behind c++ stl's next_permutation function 2012-01-02T08:05:30 (or a very similar one) 2012-01-02T08:07:53 *** Kurnevsky has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T08:11:28 *** UncleVasya has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2012-01-02T08:47:03 *** Garf has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T08:51:45 *** Garf has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2012-01-02T09:03:14 *** sigh has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-01-02T09:05:45 *** Garf has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T09:07:14 *** epicmonkey has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T09:26:34 *** Fandekasp has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T09:28:36 *** phillijw has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-01-02T09:28:49 *** phillijw has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T09:29:05 *** dorisabayon has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T09:32:05 *** Fandekasp has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2012-01-02T09:38:29 *** AlliedEnvy has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2012-01-02T09:39:00 *** Harpyon has quit IRC (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/) 2012-01-02T09:43:37 *** dorisabayon has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2012-01-02T09:44:51 *** AlliedEnvy has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T09:46:09 *** Fandekasp has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T09:51:24 *** nann has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2012-01-02T09:51:49 *** AlliedEnvy has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2012-01-02T09:54:26 *** Paradoxial has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T10:05:00 *** AlliedEnvy has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T10:10:25 multi-player asteroids candidate: http://forums.aichallenge.org/viewtopic.php?p=14033#p14033 2012-01-02T10:10:46 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T10:10:46 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2012-01-02T10:11:37 *** thestinger has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T10:27:44 *** Fandekasp has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2012-01-02T10:32:44 aerique: in that style id rather prefer haxball(somebody brought that game up, i cant remember who) 2012-01-02T10:57:25 *** treeform has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T11:08:08 *** amstan has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2012-01-02T11:10:00 *** ahow984_ has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T11:14:56 *** smjms has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2012-01-02T11:15:16 *** Apophis has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T11:18:10 *** Garf has quit IRC (Quit: Make a new plan, Stan!) 2012-01-02T11:30:07 *** foRei has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T11:32:16 i guess the conversation is already steering toward the next contest, eh? 2012-01-02T11:32:42 jmcarthur: is it really? :) thats a good thing :P 2012-01-02T11:33:05 I haven't heard that much talk about it to be honest :/ 2012-01-02T11:33:17 jmcarthur: hey, did you say you work at jane street? 2012-01-02T11:33:20 there seems to be a lot of suggestions in the forums 2012-01-02T11:33:23 mcstar: yeah 2012-01-02T11:34:07 i recently read articles from some minsky guy that works there, and i get the impression they use ocaml, but i saw no mention of haskell 2012-01-02T11:34:15 yeah it's ocaml 2012-01-02T11:34:22 but you said you do haskell at work 2012-01-02T11:34:26 *** deltree_ has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T11:34:30 i don't recall saying that 2012-01-02T11:34:34 i may have said FP 2012-01-02T11:34:53 ok, my mind went wild there apparently 2012-01-02T11:35:30 we were talking about haskell, and jane street, and you didnt mention ocaml at all 2012-01-02T11:35:36 maybe thats why i thought that.. 2012-01-02T11:35:50 heh, i don't remember at all. sorry for the confusion, nonetheless 2012-01-02T11:36:25 there are several haskell programmers at jane street. it's just not what we actually use there 2012-01-02T11:36:46 i wrote some very ugly haskell code using the SEPA algorithm 2012-01-02T11:36:50 but at least it's ocaml and not c++ ;) 2012-01-02T11:37:04 * jmcarthur looks up SEPA 2012-01-02T11:37:36 it is for computing the next lexicographic permutation of a list 2012-01-02T11:38:05 i wonder how one would do that in a purely functinal way 2012-01-02T11:38:08 what state does it need? 2012-01-02T11:38:21 it can be considered a pure function 2012-01-02T11:38:48 oh i see 2012-01-02T11:38:50 but actually writing the alg. is horrible 2012-01-02T11:38:54 at least for me 2012-01-02T11:39:09 i have a clue, that Zippers might come handy 2012-01-02T11:39:22 but i havent really comprehended them to use them 2012-01-02T11:39:24 *** Paradoxial has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2012-01-02T11:40:20 i'm not so sure that zippers would be all that useful 2012-01-02T11:40:24 *** deltree_ has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]) 2012-01-02T11:40:31 this algorithm seems to affect large portions of the string in each step 2012-01-02T11:40:37 but i don't know, really 2012-01-02T11:40:46 s/string/list/ 2012-01-02T11:40:47 whats your source? 2012-01-02T11:40:49 ah ok 2012-01-02T11:41:03 i proceeded along the first google hit 2012-01-02T11:41:28 it requires 3 pass at the list 2012-01-02T11:41:50 1 from the END to search for a a,b|a a 2012-01-02T11:42:11 after that search in the tail from a -> right to the end 2012-01-02T11:42:17 i hate it when algorithms are presented in such an imperative way 2012-01-02T11:42:28 for b > a but min b 2012-01-02T11:42:38 and after that a swap and reverse 2012-01-02T11:42:58 jmcarthur: i have an implementation, but it was a great deal of pita to write it 2012-01-02T11:43:08 it would help if i actually understood *why* this algorithm works 2012-01-02T11:43:53 it is similar to the alg. that humans use when you write the lexicographi permutations 2012-01-02T11:43:59 not the same 2012-01-02T11:44:14 because we think about all the permutations that came before the current one 2012-01-02T11:44:27 but this only needs 1 state to derive the next 2012-01-02T11:44:47 jmcarthur: http://codepad.org/prXLnKQk 2012-01-02T11:45:04 the nextPerm function is the relevant part 2012-01-02T11:45:07 okay i think i get it based on reading this http://www.freewebs.com/permute/soda_submit.html 2012-01-02T11:45:13 doesn't seem too bad. i'll give this a shot 2012-01-02T11:45:21 great :) 2012-01-02T11:45:45 jmcarthur: thats the same page i found a while back(only read this) 2012-01-02T11:47:19 * jmcarthur tries to decide how clever he should be 2012-01-02T11:47:37 *** Paradoxial has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T11:48:08 mcstar: what is the time and space complexity of the imperative version? 2012-01-02T11:48:10 it shouldnt not travel the list unncessarily, and i should be able to read your code 2012-01-02T11:48:19 oh n/m 2012-01-02T11:48:20 o(n) time 2012-01-02T11:48:25 O 2012-01-02T11:49:07 hmm... to get an algorithm like that i will have to be clever indeed 2012-01-02T11:49:30 well. not *too* clever i guess 2012-01-02T11:54:52 on a sidenote, this algorithm appealed to me cause it permutes possibly identical elements correctly 2012-01-02T12:11:28 *** X-Scale has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T12:12:52 the hardest part is always finding the right data structure 2012-01-02T12:13:30 i considered reading the list into a binary tree 2012-01-02T12:13:38 eh 2012-01-02T12:13:48 i'm going with Data.Sequence for now 2012-01-02T12:13:58 is that mutable? 2012-01-02T12:14:01 no 2012-01-02T12:14:17 i forgot, what's its trick? 2012-01-02T12:14:27 it's a fingertree 2012-01-02T12:14:30 ah 2012-01-02T12:14:46 constant time access to the ends, log time split and concat 2012-01-02T12:15:18 im ever more interested in your solution :) 2012-01-02T12:15:26 *** nha has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T12:15:30 i actually considered going with the fingertree package and making my own measure and everything 2012-01-02T12:16:01 would actually have some asymptotic improvements over the original algorithm if i did it right. but only if you look at a particular step or two. the overall runtime would still be O(n) 2012-01-02T12:16:01 have you seen my code? 2012-01-02T12:16:12 i'm avoiding looking at your code, but i did see its overall structure 2012-01-02T12:16:34 i reverse the input list when i get it, and again before returning it 2012-01-02T12:16:50 im wondering if it could be done without those 2 reverses using only lists 2012-01-02T12:17:29 i don't think so. even translating to a zipper would have about the same effect 2012-01-02T12:17:55 the problem is using lists at all, i think 2012-01-02T12:17:56 i think it possible could be done, but that would not be tali recursive 2012-01-02T12:18:05 maybe i should just write an array algorithm 2012-01-02T12:18:17 tail recursion is overrated 2012-01-02T12:18:20 at least in haskell 2012-01-02T12:18:43 in haskell you often *don't* want tail recursion 2012-01-02T12:19:15 you have quite a few uses of reverse. i think that number could almost certainly be lowered 2012-01-02T12:19:24 4 2012-01-02T12:19:32 but those other 2 are not on the whole list 2012-01-02T12:19:49 and yeah, it could be simpkler 2012-01-02T12:19:53 i just couldnt do it 2012-01-02T12:19:59 it was hard to write this as it is 2012-01-02T12:21:15 (reverse $ (reverse acc) ++ [v] ++ xs) ++ [x] ==> reverse xs ++ [v] ++ acc ++ [x] 2012-01-02T12:21:17 5 2012-01-02T12:21:18 i think 2012-01-02T12:21:57 *** UncleVasya has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T12:22:26 i had 2 versions of that line 2012-01-02T12:22:51 otherwise = (reverse $ (reverse acc) ++ [v] ++ xs) ++ [x] 2012-01-02T12:22:57 otherwise = (reverse xs) ++ [v] ++ acc ++ [x] 2012-01-02T12:23:12 :) 2012-01-02T12:23:28 i deleted the second one from the paste before submiting 2012-01-02T12:24:21 my sequence one isn't really turning out to be very clean looking. maybe more efficient, but still kind of annoying. i'll try an array instead 2012-01-02T12:24:53 (and finger trees actually have some fairly bad constant time factors compared to lists anyway) 2012-01-02T12:25:17 but pls keep it nevertheless 2012-01-02T12:25:25 eh, i didn't even finish it 2012-01-02T12:26:29 *** CowTipperVirus has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T12:34:44 Not my doing, but Aerique posted this link on the forums: 2012-01-02T12:34:48 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqfH5J18C30 2012-01-02T12:35:41 thought most of you would think it's cool, and of course thanks aerique (I see you there), awesome stuff! It would be awesome if this makes it as the next contest 2012-01-02T12:39:58 mcstar: yeah, I have trouble coding certain things in haskell without a lot of pain 2012-01-02T12:40:10 because the algorithms are presented as an imperative procedure 2012-01-02T12:40:31 whenever you have to use ++ everywhere something is wrong, because that has to walk through the whole first list to find the end 2012-01-02T12:40:57 maybe ghc optimizes more than I think it does 2012-01-02T12:41:15 thestinger: nah, that's going to be fairly inefficient anyway 2012-01-02T12:41:17 i know 2012-01-02T12:41:24 i try : whenerver i can 2012-01-02T12:41:32 but sometimes i have to concatenate lists 2012-01-02T12:41:58 mcstar: sorry, but i'm getting bored with this and am not finding any *especially* nice purely functional formulations 2012-01-02T12:42:14 i still think Data.Sequence or Data.Vector are going to be the best bets 2012-01-02T12:42:24 (probably Data.Vector) 2012-01-02T12:42:42 hm 2012-01-02T12:43:08 anything you write would be appreciated, cause it would be more readbale than mine 2012-01-02T12:43:45 that alg. is a keep for me cause its very useful 2012-01-02T12:44:02 i'll give it a go some other time perhaps 2012-01-02T12:44:08 i'm going to have to leave soon anyway 2012-01-02T12:44:11 permutation from Data.List doesnt give the "right" answer 2012-01-02T12:44:27 jmcarthur: ok, thx for the attention :) 2012-01-02T12:45:05 there's always (sort . permutations) ;) 2012-01-02T12:49:22 mcstar: why do you want this algorithm anyway? 2012-01-02T12:49:48 i want it tattood on my butt 2012-01-02T12:49:53 :D 2012-01-02T12:49:58 o_O 2012-01-02T12:50:11 no particular reason 2012-01-02T12:50:18 it might come handy for some PE problem 2012-01-02T12:50:22 but seriously, if you intend to generate all permutations at some point then i bet this isn't a very efficient way to go about it 2012-01-02T12:50:51 i think it is efficient 2012-01-02T12:51:07 and the author argues that is is 2012-01-02T12:51:09 it* 2012-01-02T12:51:36 i believe it is an efficient way to compute the next permutation given no other information 2012-01-02T12:51:52 but that doesn't necessarily mean it is going to be as efficient as a stateful permutation generator 2012-01-02T12:52:00 i wanted a non-recursive alg. that can deal with identical elements in the list, as i said previously 2012-01-02T12:52:54 what do you mean to deal with identical elements? 2012-01-02T12:53:05 you mean to not generate identical permutations? 2012-01-02T12:53:18 you know the c++'s next_permutation function? in behcmarks that beat all my permutation algorithsm as far as i recakk 2012-01-02T12:53:20 recall* 2012-01-02T12:53:26 yes 2012-01-02T12:53:31 [1,1,2] 2012-01-02T12:53:34 [1,2,1] 2012-01-02T12:53:37 [2,1,1] 2012-01-02T12:53:54 i see 2012-01-02T12:54:35 okay, with that requirement i can see this being more efficient than a more common permutation generator 2012-01-02T12:55:00 assuming there are a lot of duplicate elements 2012-01-02T12:55:09 in my last case there were 2012-01-02T12:55:23 N_a times a, N_b times b 2012-01-02T12:55:28 so what do people want for the next aichallenge? 2012-01-02T12:56:13 a fun game 2012-01-02T12:56:18 we dont really think about it i think 2012-01-02T12:56:20 *** Kingpin13 has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T12:56:30 we don't? 2012-01-02T12:56:33 those who press this issue didnt participate in the challenge 2012-01-02T12:56:47 some people want to have a rest between them :) 2012-01-02T12:56:47 *** smjms has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T12:57:08 mcstar: what do you mean? 2012-01-02T12:57:19 did you submit a bot? 2012-01-02T12:57:23 yes 2012-01-02T12:57:28 oh 2012-01-02T12:57:30 I didn't do well but I did enter 2012-01-02T12:57:31 :P 2012-01-02T12:57:34 :) 2012-01-02T12:57:56 And you've found this challenge too late, right? 2012-01-02T12:58:55 i ended up not participating in ants because i didn't think the game was all that interesting 2012-01-02T12:59:29 i hope you know you were wrong 2012-01-02T12:59:51 or do you still think so? 2012-01-02T12:59:57 i hope i was indeed wrong 2012-01-02T13:01:23 it seemed like most of the code i was writing was just to make a bot that could basically play the game without being stupid before i could get around to coming up with truly interesting AI 2012-01-02T13:02:10 noone can come up with an AI in 2 months 2012-01-02T13:02:15 i regret that i pushed so hard for fog of war, for one 2012-01-02T13:02:32 the game was complex enough without it, it turns out 2012-01-02T13:02:44 *** treeform has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-01-02T13:03:28 fow prohibits an optimal solution 2012-01-02T13:03:38 i dont think its particularly bad... 2012-01-02T13:03:45 i don't think there is a feasible optimal solution even without fow 2012-01-02T13:04:03 don't get me wrong, i think the fog of war aspect made it more interesting, but for a big price in terms of complexity 2012-01-02T13:04:20 you can plan on global strategy then, just like you do in micro-battles 2012-01-02T13:04:35 i think that's a good thing 2012-01-02T13:04:54 it means more intelligence 2012-01-02T13:04:55 i prefer this 2012-01-02T13:05:02 UncleVasya: no, I didn't have enough time for it. my bot took about 30 hours in total time to make 2012-01-02T13:05:33 sorry 2012-01-02T13:05:42 i'm curious how well a game could work that's based loosely on Diplomacy 2012-01-02T13:05:47 my nick I used when I came here was conor_f mcstar 2012-01-02T13:05:52 that's exactly what mcstar means. 2012-01-02T13:05:59 maybe thats why you didn't recognize me? 2012-01-02T13:06:09 ahow984_: certainly 2012-01-02T13:06:30 you remember helping the noob me with bfs? ;) 2012-01-02T13:06:38 but the irish accent should indicate thats you 2012-01-02T13:06:49 a simple map where the result of attacking a territory depends solely on numbers and you have to communicate with the other players to decide who to attack 2012-01-02T13:07:03 mcstar: damn, my accent couldn't show through just words? :P 2012-01-02T13:07:32 the three interesting things would be who to attack, how to communicate, and how to establish trust 2012-01-02T13:07:35 ahow984_: oh... you're conor_f :) 2012-01-02T13:07:53 yup, maybe it was you who thought me bfs.... 2012-01-02T13:07:55 in Java? 2012-01-02T13:08:08 I think I helped you with something 2012-01-02T13:08:11 don't remember what 2012-01-02T13:08:14 i think i did too 2012-01-02T13:08:17 XD 2012-01-02T13:08:22 I wouldn't be surprised ;) 2012-01-02T13:08:33 most people probably helped me out with bits lol 2012-01-02T13:08:53 jmcarthur: I think I have an answer for 2nd and 3rd questions 2012-01-02T13:09:06 For any game: 2012-01-02T13:09:56 jmcarthur: sounds interesting, resembles babylon 5 to me 2012-01-02T13:11:18 Player A can make an _advice_ to any other player. Advice is the usual order but to enemy player's forces. 2012-01-02T13:12:09 I thought that football game was cool :) 2012-01-02T13:12:20 Also when Player A issues orders for his own forces he can mark some of them as 'i do it because of advice of player N'. 2012-01-02T13:12:36 Would also be nice to be able to tell other players what moves you plan to make, even if it's a lie. 2012-01-02T13:12:38 ahow984_: i think it has more room for strategy and such than a multi player asteroid game 2012-01-02T13:12:47 but i appreciate aerique's efforts 2012-01-02T13:12:59 yeah 2012-01-02T13:13:00 c.f. haxball 2012-01-02T13:13:05 how would marking the moves that way be helpful? 2012-01-02T13:13:08 yeah, that was the one 2012-01-02T13:13:09 All players get info about moves they see: was it made by advice or not. 2012-01-02T13:13:16 ah 2012-01-02T13:13:21 *** epicmonkey has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-01-02T13:13:24 mcstar: sorry, what did aerique do? 2012-01-02T13:13:35 a mock up 2012-01-02T13:13:45 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqfH5J18C30 2012-01-02T13:13:55 i think it might be more interesting to leave the communication protocol out of the spec and see what emerges in the forums and such 2012-01-02T13:14:10 mcstar: thats interesting 2012-01-02T13:14:17 I still prefer haxball though ;) 2012-01-02T13:14:21 And see the participation plummet 2012-01-02T13:14:27 possibly 2012-01-02T13:14:38 there will be a lot of protocols for every group of friends :) 2012-01-02T13:14:39 i haven't thought it through 2012-01-02T13:14:49 i think it would standardize pretty quickly 2012-01-02T13:15:25 to a few different protocols maybe, but then most bots will need to speak all of them and it should collapse down to just one eventually 2012-01-02T13:15:32 maybe that's annoying 2012-01-02T13:15:33 I personally don't think the communication would work so well.... 2012-01-02T13:15:46 okay, i think it should be in the spec now 2012-01-02T13:15:50 I personally don't think the communication protocoll is relevant at all 2012-01-02T13:16:10 well, it would be nice to be able to express *why* you want opponents to make certain moves and stuff 2012-01-02T13:16:27 ugh, politics 2012-01-02T13:16:31 haha 2012-01-02T13:16:39 pairofdice: :) 2012-01-02T13:16:45 the perfect next game must have a similar component to Ants' battle resolution 2012-01-02T13:16:50 but i guess you could just tell them all the moves you hope to see on the next turn 2012-01-02T13:16:54 from all players 2012-01-02T13:17:08 possibly giving different views of the next turn to different players in an attempt to deceive 2012-01-02T13:17:22 then there could be a few iterations of communication, and then a turn 2012-01-02T13:17:34 *** epicmonkey has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T13:17:34 mcstar: what about a game of search and destroy? 2012-01-02T13:18:30 im not familiar with it 2012-01-02T13:18:48 well its not a game really, more like a game mode in fps games 2012-01-02T13:19:03 but the concept is you search for opponents and destroy them 2012-01-02T13:19:07 an fps is pretty much out of the question 2012-01-02T13:19:17 (i wanted one thought) 2012-01-02T13:19:19 just taking the concept 2012-01-02T13:19:20 like battleship? 2012-01-02T13:19:24 no 2012-01-02T13:19:26 maybe divide turn into 2 parts: 1. communicating between bots (trading like 'I do move A if you do moves B and C') and 2. issuing orders? 2012-01-02T13:19:37 you have a maze of some description 2012-01-02T13:19:39 and players 2012-01-02T13:19:40 UncleVasya: that's the basic idea 2012-01-02T13:19:51 and you have to search for other players and destroy them 2012-01-02T13:20:04 very similar to ants without the hills and multiple ants 2012-01-02T13:20:06 sounds like ants in a maze 2012-01-02T13:20:13 Yeah, too similar 2012-01-02T13:20:16 maybe CTF? 2012-01-02T13:20:19 UncleVasya: the expressivity of the communication protocol would be important i think 2012-01-02T13:20:19 :( 2012-01-02T13:20:28 CTF, you mean , capture the anthill? 2012-01-02T13:20:31 a set number of people on a team try to take over someones base? 2012-01-02T13:20:42 you brinf the "hill" back to your hill 2012-01-02T13:20:43 Still too similar 2012-01-02T13:20:44 haha, it sounds very like that I suppose :/ 2012-01-02T13:20:48 :) 2012-01-02T13:21:04 each message could be something like [Hope | Expect] 2012-01-02T13:21:16 I liked to idea of xpilot'ish 2012-01-02T13:21:25 "i hope player 2 does this move, but i expect this one" 2012-01-02T13:21:29 etc. 2012-01-02T13:21:55 pairofdice: yesh, but it doesn't seem to give much scope for intelligence 2012-01-02T13:22:14 data Maybe a = Hope a | Expect a | Nothing 2012-01-02T13:22:50 seems to be just an avoidance function and a function to search for ships in range and then shoot.... 2012-01-02T13:22:53 of course you can always make it even more expressive 2012-01-02T13:23:15 expectation given as a probability distribution, for example 2012-01-02T13:23:22 not sure how useful that is 2012-01-02T13:24:12 with a few rounds of communication you could try to deceive one player into making a bad move and then tell that information to other players so everybody can capitalize on it 2012-01-02T13:24:17 It would just end up people blocking all communication and just going themselves 2012-01-02T13:24:20 maybe even requiring some cooperation for the deception 2012-01-02T13:24:23 thats what I'd do anyways.... 2012-01-02T13:24:32 you'd lose first, i promise 2012-01-02T13:24:37 the other would just gang up on you 2012-01-02T13:24:39 *others 2012-01-02T13:24:41 haha, yeah 2012-01-02T13:24:42 suppose 2012-01-02T13:24:53 still, if you have 5 players 2012-01-02T13:25:08 actually, never mind :p 2012-01-02T13:25:46 so anyway, if you manage to convince a player to do something stupid you can then express your expectation of what that player will do in later iterations of the communcation 2012-01-02T13:25:59 *communication 2012-01-02T13:26:32 jmcarthur: seems very complicated.... 2012-01-02T13:26:44 And nonvisual 2012-01-02T13:26:50 i think it might have a lot of depth 2012-01-02T13:26:53 hmm 2012-01-02T13:26:57 yes, that would be crucial pairofdice 2012-01-02T13:27:34 i think there might be a creative visualization for the communication 2012-01-02T13:28:20 but i admit i can't think of a good one yet 2012-01-02T13:28:41 what about a racing game? 2012-01-02T13:29:05 racing xpilot game! 2012-01-02T13:29:10 g2g 2012-01-02T13:29:13 how would that work? 2012-01-02T13:29:17 ttyl jmcarthur 2012-01-02T13:29:30 With spaceships and gravity 2012-01-02T13:29:43 And tunnels or waypoint 2012-01-02T13:29:50 wheres the race though? :P 2012-01-02T13:29:59 ehh 2012-01-02T13:30:12 Where's the race... you make it 2012-01-02T13:30:17 i'd like some elements of special and general relativity 2012-01-02T13:30:27 I don't understand.... 2012-01-02T13:30:43 with some smaller c, and the relativistic effect would creep up way sooner 2012-01-02T13:30:47 xpilot is asteroids, there is no race in asteroids.... 2012-01-02T13:31:03 And? 2012-01-02T13:31:31 I dunno, I don't see the racing part of a game with no race in it.... 2012-01-02T13:32:06 Don't make me swear 2012-01-02T13:32:20 youve got to race to objectives 2012-01-02T13:32:39 mcstar: ok, that makes sense so 2012-01-02T13:32:40 ty 2012-01-02T13:32:44 Implementing a race in any game isn't difficult 2012-01-02T13:33:23 When I say "like x" people take it literally "x" 2012-01-02T13:33:45 like what? 2012-01-02T13:34:01 XD 2012-01-02T13:34:07 D: 2012-01-02T13:34:07 :P 2012-01-02T13:35:07 hmmmm 2012-01-02T13:36:09 how about a maze finding race? 2012-01-02T13:36:14 UncleVasya: how are you progressing? 2012-01-02T13:36:32 so you've got 4 players in 4 corners of a maze, it's a race to the center 2012-01-02T13:36:44 * UncleVasya was hoping you forget already 2012-01-02T13:36:50 you've got a fog of war type thing so you can't see the whole map at once 2012-01-02T13:36:56 youre not that lucky 2012-01-02T13:37:00 first to the center wins 2012-01-02T13:37:24 ahow984_: either optimal solution exists, or theres too much undertainity 2012-01-02T13:37:24 can you give me a link to an explanation what you have used to code your solution? 2012-01-02T13:37:50 UncleVasya: http://www.freewebs.com/permute/soda_submit.html 2012-01-02T13:37:53 mcstar: 2012-01-02T13:37:59 hear me out ;) 2012-01-02T13:38:09 this is where the communication could come in 2012-01-02T13:38:22 UncleVasya: The SEPA Algorithm paragraph 2012-01-02T13:38:23 hmm, I thought you have another one 2012-01-02T13:38:45 The key field can be determined by checking pairs of digits (or fields) starting from the rear (or right side) of the set. For each pair, if the left value of the pair is smaller than the right, then the field on the left is the key field. At this point all values to the right of the key field must be in sorted order from right to left (if not a field to the right would be the key field). If the key does 2012-01-02T13:38:47 not exist, the last permutation has been created. At this time, the data set is in reverse sorted order (from left to right). 2012-01-02T13:39:01 To find the next permutation in order, the key field must be exchanged with the smallest value in the tail which is larger than the key value. For example in the data set "abdca" the field with the value 'b' is the key, and the field containing the value 'c' has the smallest value in the tail which is larger than the key value. After swapping values, the set becomes "acdba". It is possible to find this 2012-01-02T13:39:03 value by comparing each value with the key value, starting at the end of the data set. The first value larger than the key value is the value to be exchanged with the key value. Notice that the tail (the 'c' is the key now) is still in reverse sorted order. This is important, because the last step is putting the tail into sorted order. 2012-01-02T13:39:13 thats my flooding for the day 2012-01-02T13:39:22 this is the important part 2012-01-02T13:39:55 UncleVasya: if you have a question regarding the alg. ask away 2012-01-02T13:40:10 *** Paradoxial has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2012-01-02T13:40:20 Also I've found some explanations for next_permutation problem in my language but I'm not sure they are the same with this one. 2012-01-02T13:40:39 it is possible 2012-01-02T13:40:43 ill look into it 2012-01-02T13:40:52 but pls use this alg. 2012-01-02T13:48:07 *** Paradoxial has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T13:50:38 321 -> 231 -> 213 - 123 -> 132 -> 312 ? 2012-01-02T13:51:54 UncleVasya: http://wordaligned.org/articles/next-permutation under Implementation theres a code sample thats allegedly from the STL 2012-01-02T13:52:04 and it is the same alg. thats in the link i gave you 2012-01-02T13:52:29 123.132.213.231.312.321 2012-01-02T13:57:06 I found explanation in my language and I think I get it: 2012-01-02T13:57:29 1. Go from left to right until Ai < Ai + 1 2012-01-02T13:57:37 2. Swap Ai and Ai+1 2012-01-02T13:58:01 3. Reverse all elements in the right side of the Ai 2012-01-02T13:58:14 *from right to left, typo 2012-01-02T13:58:53 no 2012-01-02T14:00:00 ok, I throw away russian pages and keep reading your link :) 2012-01-02T14:00:07 1. search from right to left until a_i < a_i+1, remember i 2012-01-02T14:01:00 2. search from i+1 to end, find k a_k > a_i, find lowest a_k 2012-01-02T14:01:13 3. swap a_i and a_k 2012-01-02T14:01:17 Oh, that's the PE I haven't done yet 2012-01-02T14:01:28 4. reverse a_i+1 to end 2012-01-02T14:01:38 this isnt PE 2012-01-02T14:01:58 project euler? 2012-01-02T14:02:33 #24 2012-01-02T14:03:04 pairofdice: ok, my bad 2012-01-02T14:03:21 I try them from time to time. I don't know enough math to do most of them though :/ 2012-01-02T14:04:01 ahow984_: do you understand my soulution to the block puzzle? 2012-01-02T14:04:14 yes, partially 2012-01-02T14:04:41 I would have never have been able to do that myself though :/ 2012-01-02T14:05:08 it is soo annoying that rwest doesnt seem to care for his irc window 2012-01-02T14:05:16 haha 2012-01-02T14:05:49 it was a test problem for some job application of his 2012-01-02T14:06:04 oh, interesting 2012-01-02T14:06:13 do you know for where? 2012-01-02T14:07:15 *** treeform has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T14:07:19 no 2012-01-02T14:10:17 ahow984_: if you are wondering, it was some kind of take-home assignment, he didnt need to solve it in-place 2012-01-02T14:10:38 yeah, I doubted that 2012-01-02T14:11:32 mcstar: in your 2) you say 'from i+1 to the end' but there are words 'It is possible to find this value by comparing each value with the key value, -------starting at the end of the data set-------.' on your page. 2012-01-02T14:12:09 UncleVasya: both are correct 2012-01-02T14:12:46 that part should be in reverse oreder 2012-01-02T14:12:57 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T14:13:06 so you only need to search for a certain point 2012-01-02T14:13:19 no matter if you start from the end or the beginning of the tail 2012-01-02T14:24:52 pairofdice: i logged in to enter the solution to problem #24, but it seems i already done that 2012-01-02T14:27:57 heh 2012-01-02T14:28:20 http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/nz05j/two_part_question_xpost_with_askreddit_what_would/c3d5imh 2012-01-02T14:28:27 grumble grumble arrogant fucks grumble 2012-01-02T14:28:59 antimatroid: have you seen a link to Game Theory class? 2012-01-02T14:29:16 UncleVasya: yeah, looks stupidly easy though unfortunately :( 2012-01-02T14:29:21 i've signed up for machine learning 2012-01-02T14:29:49 and by stupidly easy i mean it looks like it's suitable for about first year economics students who aren't going to do much maths 2012-01-02T14:30:01 why not to algorithms too? 2012-01-02T14:30:10 wont have the time 2012-01-02T14:30:57 *** h_ has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T14:32:45 is this reddit thing worth readin? 2012-01-02T14:32:53 i mean regularly 2012-01-02T14:33:13 no 2012-01-02T14:33:18 reddit keeps getting worse and worse 2012-01-02T14:33:21 i just get bored 2012-01-02T14:35:08 Yeah, no. 2012-01-02T14:36:00 Starting to resemble the stupidest corners of the Internet 2012-01-02T14:36:29 it's a shame too, i really liked reddit a few years ago 2012-01-02T14:36:58 i get really peeved at physicists etc. saying cs, maths, economics, etc. aren't science 2012-01-02T14:37:33 it's really annoying when people quarell over the purity of their field rather than collectively trying to call bullshit on work that is insufficiently rigorous for our current level of collective knowledge 2012-01-02T14:44:20 mcstar: some subreddits are good 2012-01-02T14:44:29 anyone can make one, so you can't really think of it as one site 2012-01-02T14:44:39 it's sort of like freenode, it just hosts communities 2012-01-02T14:45:12 r/programming is how I found out about aichallenge 2012-01-02T14:45:27 id probably bring their quality down with my comments, so i better stay away 2012-01-02T14:46:42 seriously, its too much information to consider 2012-01-02T14:47:04 *** Accoun has quit IRC () 2012-01-02T14:47:41 well, I just glance at the front pages of a few subreddits now and then 2012-01-02T14:47:57 thestinger: /r/programming is a prime example of a subreddit which has gone to shit imo :P 2012-01-02T14:48:02 antimatroid: yeah 2012-01-02T14:48:22 web programming, more web programming, canvas, javascript, blablablah 2012-01-02T14:48:31 it's full of people who never attended university and basically shun theory etc. 2012-01-02T14:48:38 :) 2012-01-02T14:48:52 i saw an interesting comment in /r/compsci about that recently, i'll try to find it 2012-01-02T14:49:17 so what? you cant code without a diploma? 2012-01-02T14:49:27 this contest was a prime example of the opposite 2012-01-02T14:49:36 http://www.reddit.com/r/compsci/comments/njdyq/so_you_want_a_phd_in_theoretical_computer_science/c39m1qx 2012-01-02T14:49:53 no, i have no problem with people not going to university 2012-01-02T14:49:59 what i do have a problem with is people acting like theory doesn 2012-01-02T14:50:02 t have a place 2012-01-02T14:50:09 and isn't relevant to real world applications etc. 2012-01-02T14:50:33 a1k0n dropped out of uni and i'm clearly a fanboy of his :P 2012-01-02T14:50:45 is it i or l ? the 1 2012-01-02T14:50:52 alcon? aicon? 2012-01-02T14:50:59 one 2012-01-02T14:51:08 yeah, no idea 2012-01-02T14:51:14 i just say, aye, one, con 2012-01-02T14:51:16 icon 2012-01-02T14:53:06 antimatroid: tell those theory-unaware guys where the software industry is heading, im talking about automated theorem provers and such 2012-01-02T14:53:59 the software industry is moving towards automated theorem provers? 2012-01-02T14:54:05 i thought they were mostly pet academic projects 2012-01-02T14:54:11 my friend was playing around with them last year 2012-01-02T14:54:36 no 2012-01-02T14:55:04 proving correctness, building better software automatically from specifications and such are coming up strong 2012-01-02T14:55:25 oh, so not so much actual maths theorem provers? 2012-01-02T14:55:42 they have evry strong connections 2012-01-02T14:55:43 but more like proving a program is safe or whatever the terminology is? 2012-01-02T14:55:56 abstract types... 2012-01-02T14:56:10 just read wiki or whatever there are lots of talks about it 2012-01-02T14:56:13 there's thousands of reasons why these people are wrong 2012-01-02T14:56:20 i don't like banging my head against a brick wall though :) 2012-01-02T14:56:41 @spellit a1k0n 2012-01-02T14:56:41 thestinger: ay one kay zero en 2012-01-02T14:56:43 ^ that 2012-01-02T14:56:47 :P 2012-01-02T14:56:52 theory is more important than ever, thats for sure 2012-01-02T14:57:06 "we are building better worlds" 2012-01-02T14:58:49 *** Redgis has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T15:00:28 damn, i cant even quote properly 2012-01-02T15:00:41 "building better worlds" 2012-01-02T15:02:56 *** sigh has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-01-02T15:03:49 *** epicmonkey has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2012-01-02T15:05:43 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T15:23:28 i watched the accompanying video, very thoughtful 2012-01-02T15:27:30 *** ericlavigne has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T15:29:47 *** Kurnevsky has quit IRC (Quit: Instantbird 1.0) 2012-01-02T15:37:28 mcstar: now I have a find_key function 2012-01-02T15:38:17 great 2012-01-02T15:39:47 *** Garf has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T15:40:31 @later tell amstan I'm going to shut down the current main server wednesday at the latest. If there isn't another spot for the forums, I can try putting them on the archive server for now and see how it works. 2012-01-02T15:40:31 janzert: Yes master! 2012-01-02T15:42:06 mcstar: http://codepad.org/fbWYW4yz 2012-01-02T15:44:23 length must travel the whole list 2012-01-02T15:45:01 im not sure how this is implemented in ocaml, but in common lisp im certain, it must travel the list, and im relatively sure in haskell too 2012-01-02T15:45:36 if in caml, the list type is some boxed type, it might just "know" its length, but i doubt that 2012-01-02T15:46:10 (List.length tail), b 2012-01-02T15:46:17 this is what you return at one point 2012-01-02T15:46:31 and this is at another 2 : -1, -1 ; 2012-01-02T15:46:49 what is b is not of type "integer" or whatever it is called in ocaml 2012-01-02T15:46:54 what if* 2012-01-02T15:51:04 btw it is probably wrong 2012-01-02T15:51:28 let me think this through 2012-01-02T15:51:51 ah ok 2012-01-02T15:51:54 you do reverse it 2012-01-02T15:52:48 *** kilae has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 8.0/20111104165243]) 2012-01-02T15:53:52 *** ahow984_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2012-01-02T15:54:14 I should replace -1 with some kind of nil, NULL, None or whatever is works for OCaml but I need to find the right one first. 2012-01-02T15:54:23 If such one exists 2012-01-02T15:56:06 you can return a list [index, element] 2012-01-02T15:56:34 and in the [] and [x] case only [] or [x] too 2012-01-02T15:56:55 so it willl fit a different pattern when you match find_key's output in next_permutation 2012-01-02T15:57:17 im guessing you now return a tuple 2012-01-02T15:57:38 not guessing 2012-01-02T15:57:51 i'm guessing too :) 2012-01-02T16:09:16 *** ltriant has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T16:13:29 *** ahow984_ has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T16:14:52 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T16:14:52 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2012-01-02T16:16:52 *** TheLinker has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T16:20:27 *** ahow984_ has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2012-01-02T16:20:45 *** ericlavigne has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2012-01-02T16:27:18 mcstar: fixed http://codepad.org/NUQVc1vq 2012-01-02T16:28:22 print_string "Shit happened." ; 2012-01-02T16:28:31 your english gets better with each day 2012-01-02T16:29:35 UncleVasya: did you add the _ -> case for the joke of it? 2012-01-02T16:29:56 or did the compiler complain about non-exhaustive patterns? 2012-01-02T16:30:22 Because I don't like when compiler shows wanings. 2012-01-02T16:30:36 thats what i thought 2012-01-02T16:30:41 what was it? 2012-01-02T16:30:44 Is it good? 2012-01-02T16:31:07 UncleVasya: what do you mean? 2012-01-02T16:31:35 That I insert not-relevant code to avoid warnings. 2012-01-02T16:31:52 id like to see the warning 2012-01-02T16:32:07 Or is warnings avoiding is a good style in programming? 2012-01-02T16:32:11 it is surprising to me that it generates a warning wo the catch-all patterm 2012-01-02T16:32:33 yes, i think you should write that generates no warnings 2012-01-02T16:32:38 write code* 2012-01-02T16:32:44 Because there are such cases as 2012-01-02T16:32:55 Nono, Some and Some, None. 2012-01-02T16:33:00 *None 2012-01-02T16:33:26 how? 2012-01-02T16:33:53 No way they gonna happen but they are exist 2012-01-02T16:34:02 find_key always return Some a, Some b OR None, None 2012-01-02T16:34:13 thats the point, they cant happen 2012-01-02T16:34:43 thats why im interested in the warning message, since i expected the type-checker to know this 2012-01-02T16:35:16 Does Haskell understand that if some case isn't going to happen, you do not need a match for it? 2012-01-02T16:35:29 you dont need to match at all 2012-01-02T16:35:41 but if some case falls through, you get a run.-time error 2012-01-02T16:36:17 but apparently, there are some deep thoughts regarding here 2012-01-02T16:36:32 ocaml went in the other direction, that it always expects all cases to be covered 2012-01-02T16:36:46 while haskell allows for this kind of stuff 2012-01-02T16:36:56 hmmm, you have all your code in 32 lines and I have only find_key in 22... 2012-01-02T16:37:52 you should write the whole function, and we compare sizes after that ok? 2012-01-02T16:38:17 the relevant part is 11 lines 2012-01-02T16:38:29 *** dr- has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2012-01-02T16:39:31 actually 10, i dont know why a broke the line after that "where" :D 2012-01-02T16:39:34 *** dr- has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T16:39:41 *** Palmik has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T16:43:43 *** ZenWraithBot has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2012-01-02T16:44:18 *** Wraithan has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2012-01-02T16:46:23 *** ZenWraithBot has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T16:49:23 *** Wraithan has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T16:51:28 mcstar: Don't you know what is faster: adding items to the begining of the list (a::lst) and in the end reverse it once or adding items to the end (lst @ [a]) but without reversing? 2012-01-02T16:52:43 brb, do not worry. 2012-01-02T16:52:43 *** UncleVasya has quit IRC () 2012-01-02T16:53:00 beginning 2012-01-02T17:05:21 *** smjms has quit IRC (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2012-01-02T17:19:34 *** kire has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T17:24:23 *** amstan has quit IRC (*.net *.split) 2012-01-02T17:24:23 *** thestinger has quit IRC (*.net *.split) 2012-01-02T17:24:24 *** Israfel has quit IRC (*.net *.split) 2012-01-02T17:24:24 *** antimatroid has quit IRC (*.net *.split) 2012-01-02T17:24:24 *** cYmen has quit IRC (*.net *.split) 2012-01-02T17:24:24 *** rb__ has quit IRC (*.net *.split) 2012-01-02T17:24:24 *** hkraal_ has quit IRC (*.net *.split) 2012-01-02T17:24:25 *** greghaynes has quit IRC (*.net *.split) 2012-01-02T17:24:45 *** thestinger has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T17:24:56 *** Israfel has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T17:25:16 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T17:25:16 *** antimatroid has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T17:25:16 *** cYmen has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T17:25:16 *** rb__ has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T17:25:16 *** hkraal_ has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T17:25:16 *** greghaynes has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T17:25:16 *** kornbluth.freenode.net sets mode: +o amstan 2012-01-02T17:28:14 *** foRei has quit IRC (Quit: Bye) 2012-01-02T17:28:18 *** kaemo has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T17:29:16 *** kire has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-01-02T17:37:35 *** UncleVasya has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T17:41:56 I think I've done, mcstar. 2012-01-02T17:42:08 A little make-up before upload. 2012-01-02T17:42:20 i am done 2012-01-02T17:42:23 good :) 2012-01-02T17:47:04 *** Fandekasp has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T17:59:12 thanks for fixing lanuage errors. 2012-01-02T17:59:15 ;) 2012-01-02T18:05:30 mcstar: http://codepad.org/wlCCPuZ8 2012-01-02T18:05:45 it can be buggy now, need some reading :) 2012-01-02T18:08:28 *** Garf has quit IRC (Quit: Make a new plan, Stan!) 2012-01-02T18:08:30 Alredy found one bug. 2012-01-02T18:08:40 *already 2012-01-02T18:08:45 Line 13, lol 2012-01-02T18:09:02 must be | [a] -> a :: List.rev (left @ [key]) ; 2012-01-02T18:14:08 Lol, I've just noticed my make-up took 25 minutes to be finished :) 2012-01-02T18:17:08 second bug fixed 2012-01-02T18:17:38 mcstar: here we go http://codepad.org/mAEQnpsw 2012-01-02T18:18:58 im back 2012-01-02T18:19:41 contestbot: seen janzert 2012-01-02T18:19:41 amstan: janzert was last seen in #aichallenge 2 hours, 39 minutes, and 10 seconds ago: @later tell amstan I'm going to shut down the current main server wednesday at the latest. If there isn't another spot for the forums, I can try putting them on the archive server for now and see how it works. 2012-01-02T18:19:57 janzert: ping 2012-01-02T18:20:21 UncleVasya: i had to write the code without intermediate prints 2012-01-02T18:20:59 I think your solution is more styled like functional because I don't understand it :) 2012-01-02T18:21:11 how can i load that up in ocaml? 2012-01-02T18:21:26 i mean into the interpreter 2012-01-02T18:21:28 I didn't even tried to write something without them. 2012-01-02T18:22:01 ocaml filename 2012-01-02T18:22:53 no 2012-01-02T18:22:56 In Geany I use ocaml %f binded to the Execute button 2012-01-02T18:22:57 i want to play with it 2012-01-02T18:23:07 *** McLeopold has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T18:23:07 i want to load the function definitions into the repl 2012-01-02T18:24:05 no, don't no. I have Geany + Execute button and have no idea what you are talking about. 2012-01-02T18:24:17 I am windows-guy, mouse-monkey :) 2012-01-02T18:24:28 *don't know 2012-01-02T18:24:31 UncleVasya: ocaml has a REPL - read-eval-print-loop 2012-01-02T18:24:39 it is a dynamic environment 2012-01-02T18:24:52 code gets compiled to machine or byte code 2012-01-02T18:24:55 top-level interpreter? 2012-01-02T18:24:58 and you can execute it right away 2012-01-02T18:25:02 yes 2012-01-02T18:25:18 McLeopold: ping 2012-01-02T18:25:22 hi 2012-01-02T18:25:37 hi 2012-01-02T18:25:48 McLeopold: what's up with that repo? 2012-01-02T18:25:56 cooking for the next contest? 2012-01-02T18:26:02 PythonSkills 2012-01-02T18:26:02 yeah 2012-01-02T18:26:18 starting the work to dump PHP for good 2012-01-02T18:26:33 wanna move it to the aichallenge organization? 2012-01-02T18:26:40 wow, you guys already talking about code! Seems we'll have something to play with soon enough. 2012-01-02T18:26:41 no 2012-01-02T18:26:48 just do a submodule 2012-01-02T18:27:06 yeah, but moving it should simplify permission management 2012-01-02T18:27:42 I can remove you guys, that was just my simple method of letting you know it was there 2012-01-02T18:27:54 oh, ok 2012-01-02T18:28:31 you gonna create a django forum? 2012-01-02T18:28:39 sometime.. 2012-01-02T18:28:43 aerique: hey 2012-01-02T18:28:51 aerique: nice demo you got there, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqfH5J18C30 2012-01-02T18:30:12 *** dorisabayon has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T18:33:24 *** Fandekasp has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2012-01-02T18:33:57 McLeopold: what do you think of tabs? 2012-01-02T18:34:00 in source code? 2012-01-02T18:34:35 McLeopold: also.. at this point you probably know more about django than me 2012-01-02T18:38:04 all tabs all the time 2012-01-02T18:38:13 greghaynes: spaces for indents though 2012-01-02T18:38:25 yep 2012-01-02T18:38:26 i would like to have the same conventions as the kernel code 2012-01-02T18:38:40 no you wouldnt 2012-01-02T18:38:46 they use old c style 2012-01-02T18:38:55 what do you mean? 2012-01-02T18:38:59 well, maybe they dont still, but I know some code is in it 2012-01-02T18:39:27 int i; \n void foo(x) \n { ... } 2012-01-02T18:39:32 which is just odd 2012-01-02T18:40:00 oh, you mean the { on a newline after function declarations? 2012-01-02T18:40:08 nono, the var before function 2012-01-02T18:40:16 wait, void foo() int i; { } 2012-01-02T18:40:20 lol 2012-01-02T18:40:21 yes 2012-01-02T18:40:22 oh, wtf? 2012-01-02T18:40:25 actually no 2012-01-02T18:40:31 void foo(i) int i; {} 2012-01-02T18:40:38 greghaynes: anyway, i don't think that's relevant though, we have like 1% C code 2012-01-02T18:40:40 yea, I never use it so it takes a second 2012-01-02T18:40:49 greghaynes: pretty much same conventions as xsbs 2012-01-02T18:40:59 as long as that indent github bot didn't screw it up 2012-01-02T18:41:06 it was the old C standard, my friend got confused about it some time ago 2012-01-02T18:41:15 yea, thats how k&r is 2012-01-02T18:41:36 * amstan goes back into coding a pyqt asteroids game 2012-01-02T18:41:44 woo pyqt 2012-01-02T18:41:53 woooo 2012-01-02T18:42:06 pyside? nah, don't care enough 2012-01-02T18:43:16 ok.. let's see this.. 2012-01-02T18:43:35 *** CowTipperVirus has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2012-01-02T18:43:36 *** Jak_o_Shadows has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T19:01:59 *** Palmik has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-01-02T19:14:32 *** CowTipperVirus has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T19:14:54 *** UncleVasya has quit IRC () 2012-01-02T19:15:10 *** mcstar has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6) 2012-01-02T19:15:11 *** JorgeB has quit IRC (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2012-01-02T19:30:09 *** Redgis has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2012-01-02T19:49:46 *** ikaros has quit IRC (Quit: Ex-Chat) 2012-01-02T19:51:33 amstan: here now :} 2012-01-02T19:51:41 hey, what's up with the servers? 2012-01-02T19:52:26 in what way? 2012-01-02T19:52:34 well.. the moving part 2012-01-02T19:52:42 to archive 2012-01-02T19:52:59 the current primary server is more than we need/too expensive for in between contests 2012-01-02T19:53:06 yeah, i know 2012-01-02T19:53:15 so what are we moving over? and when? 2012-01-02T19:53:15 so I'm getting ready to shut it down, everything but the forums is moved 2012-01-02T19:53:36 oh! darn 2012-01-02T19:53:38 I'm not sure the archive server is up to handling the forum load though 2012-01-02T19:53:45 i didn't see there was more in ants 2012-01-02T19:53:51 sorry, in /media 2012-01-02T19:53:55 i tought ants was in archive 2012-01-02T19:54:02 I thought you had mentioned before that you had another server for them 2012-01-02T19:54:04 what's /media/scratch? 2012-01-02T19:54:05 ahh 2012-01-02T19:54:24 just a directory I used as a mount point while moving stuff 2012-01-02T19:54:31 it can/should go away now 2012-01-02T19:54:43 what about archive? shouldn't ants be in there? 2012-01-02T19:54:59 nah, it's a bit misnamed but that is just planetwars and tron 2012-01-02T19:55:15 how did you get mysql working? 2012-01-02T19:55:18 archive and ants are there own volume 2012-01-02T19:55:26 ? 2012-01-02T19:55:37 remember that i was causing problems when we first got archive 2012-01-02T19:55:38 there were apparmor problems a long time ago 2012-01-02T19:55:52 ahh, yes that was the apparmor thing I believe 2012-01-02T19:55:57 i was looking around, there seems to be no /var/lib/mysql 2012-01-02T19:56:10 how does that work? 2012-01-02T19:56:14 yeah, it's there 2012-01-02T19:56:27 it just has symlinks to each contest database 2012-01-02T19:56:28 idk why i remember it wasn't, i was looking just today 2012-01-02T19:56:31 ok, cool 2012-01-02T19:56:35 so they should be working 2012-01-02T19:56:38 let me point domains over 2012-01-02T19:57:19 ok, i'll point tron and planetwars for now to the archive one 2012-01-02T19:57:25 also sometime I'd like to change the main aichallenge.org to a summary page that just says we're between contests and has links to the old contests, forums and IRC 2012-01-02T19:57:36 ok 2012-01-02T19:57:53 yeah, it would be nice to have a main page of some sorts 2012-01-02T19:57:59 ^this 2012-01-02T19:58:09 i'll ping aarossig about it 2012-01-02T19:58:14 or something 2012-01-02T19:58:27 yeah, it's not a huge rush of course 2012-01-02T19:58:53 btw, I'm opposed to starting another contest until the non-profit status has been worked out :/ 2012-01-02T19:58:54 ok, ants planetwars and tron point to archive 2012-01-02T19:59:03 great 2012-01-02T19:59:04 janzert: yes, i am too 2012-01-02T19:59:57 contestbot: dns ants.aichallenge.org 2012-01-02T19:59:58 amstan: 75.101.167.80 2012-01-02T20:00:06 seems to be in effect for contestbot 2012-01-02T20:00:38 looks like it is for me as well 2012-01-02T20:01:51 the issue that we have now is handing all the redirects 2012-01-02T20:02:05 do you have a plan/spot for the forums or do you want me to try them on archive? 2012-01-02T20:02:12 which ones? 2012-01-02T20:02:21 well, i could go on my server, but i would prefer it to stay on archive 2012-01-02T20:02:39 stuff like ai-contest.com pointing at aichallenge.org 2012-01-02T20:02:51 and everything/forums pointing at forums.aichallenge.org 2012-01-02T20:03:02 ok, I'll move the forums over there tonight or tomorrow and we can see how they do 2012-01-02T20:03:56 janzert: tip: admin cp> board settings>disable board, it'll make it read only for a while till you have it copied 2012-01-02T20:03:57 yeah, I think that is about the extent of the redirects we need at this point 2012-01-02T20:04:10 ahh, great 2012-01-02T20:04:19 here's what i'm thinking 2012-01-02T20:04:59 make a beta.aichallenge.org site, which could be about development with links to everything 2012-01-02T20:05:16 once we have placeholder main page, we can redirect everything else from aichallenge.org to ants.aichalleng.org for a few months 2012-01-02T20:05:16 then have aichallenge.org temporarly redirect to beta 2012-01-02T20:05:30 and redirect it to the new contest when we lauch 2012-01-02T20:06:02 hmm, I don't think we want aichallenge.org to go to beta.aichallenge ever 2012-01-02T20:06:15 a temporary redirect though, why not? 2012-01-02T20:06:32 bare aichallenge.org be able to become a permanent overview page 2012-01-02T20:06:45 well.. call it something else then, not beta 2012-01-02T20:06:58 yeah, it's called aichallenge.org ;) 2012-01-02T20:07:21 yeah, but how do we switch between contest and that overview page? 2012-01-02T20:07:27 we don't 2012-01-02T20:07:37 so how do people go to the contest then? 2012-01-02T20:07:38 we add to the overview page when a new contest comes along 2012-01-02T20:07:57 sounds good 2012-01-02T20:08:08 contestname.aichallenge.org can be the direct link 2012-01-02T20:08:13 the only issue is that we really need that overview page before we can do anything 2012-01-02T20:08:28 yep, it shouldn't be too hard to make though 2012-01-02T20:08:38 it should look pretty though 2012-01-02T20:08:43 I'd like to be a static html 2012-01-02T20:09:04 sure, and it can be refined once it's up at any point of course 2012-01-02T20:12:18 how's this? 2012-01-02T20:12:20 https://gist.github.com/1552940 2012-01-02T20:12:26 oh wait 2012-01-02T20:13:53 there 2012-01-02T20:13:55 307 2012-01-02T20:14:06 does that look ok? 2012-01-02T20:14:36 we can eventually change aichallenge.org to contain a docroot and to not redirect to ants 2012-01-02T20:14:44 but for the next few days it'll be good 2012-01-02T20:14:57 janzert: ^ 2012-01-02T20:15:13 thinking about it 2012-01-02T20:15:30 for now I think I'd rather do an internal rewrite of aichallenge.org 2012-01-02T20:15:38 [PT] 2012-01-02T20:16:12 if it doesn't change the percieved behavoir, sure 2012-01-02T20:16:39 a redirect is seen by the browser and involves another browser connection 2012-01-02T20:17:10 i would like to have the ants.aichallenge.org seen in people's browsers 2012-01-02T20:17:27 eventually, once there is something different for aichallenge.org 2012-01-02T20:17:48 I don't want every hit to aichallenge.org to redirect 2012-01-02T20:18:05 ideally now, because this is the time people are more likely to fix their links to the perma one 2012-01-02T20:18:45 btw, the situation on the main server was really, really bad. ants.aichallenge.org was permanently redirected to aichallenge.org 2012-01-02T20:19:07 so anyone that was using ants.aichallenge.org had the search engines change to aichallenge.org links already :( 2012-01-02T20:19:31 darn 2012-01-02T20:19:40 my bad 2012-01-02T20:19:45 once we have a base aichallenge.org overview page all the sub-pages can permanently redirect to ants.aichallenge.org 2012-01-02T20:20:32 i guess, but why do that for ants only and not for pw? 2012-01-02T20:20:51 ? because it's already too late for planetwars basically 2012-01-02T20:20:56 i guess 2012-01-02T20:21:23 are we forever going to have permanent redirects from aichallenge.org/nousedstuff to ants? 2012-01-02T20:21:27 if we could have done it a few months before launching ants it would have been great 2012-01-02T20:21:35 no, just for a few months 2012-01-02T20:21:40 ok 2012-01-02T20:22:17 oh.. 2012-01-02T20:22:19 another problem 2012-01-02T20:22:27 and future contests we can start on there own subdomain so we never have the problem again 2012-01-02T20:22:28 ai-contest.com still points at ec2 ip 2012-01-02T20:22:43 can we get the same ip? 2012-01-02T20:22:45 I'll move the ip over to the archive server when I shut the current one down 2012-01-02T20:22:47 yep :) 2012-01-02T20:22:50 coo 2012-01-02T20:22:52 cool 2012-01-02T20:23:21 btw, I'd rather phpmyadmin not get installed on archive 2012-01-02T20:25:12 what are we going to do about seo duplication? we'll have aichallenge.org and ants.aichallenge.org with the same content 2012-01-02T20:25:38 not for too long hopefully 2012-01-02T20:25:44 ok 2012-01-02T20:25:54 then all we need is serveralias aichallenge.org in the ants config 2012-01-02T20:26:04 and this file: https://gist.github.com/1552940 2012-01-02T20:26:23 actually since ants is setup as the default site it will just work ;) 2012-01-02T20:26:29 sure 2012-01-02T20:26:47 but yeah a permanent redirect for ai-contest would be good 2012-01-02T20:26:55 tell me when you change the archive server's ip 2012-01-02T20:27:24 it'll probably be tomorrow unless I get suddenly energetic tonight ;) 2012-01-02T20:27:47 oh, the archive server will keep its current ip as well 2012-01-02T20:27:53 oh, ok 2012-01-02T20:27:55 lol 2012-01-02T20:28:19 i'm playing with this pyqt asteroids prototype 2012-01-02T20:28:54 I've just started working my way through some of the game suggestions 2012-01-02T20:43:38 *** grc48 has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T21:07:16 *** thestinger has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6) 2012-01-02T21:17:38 aichallenge: Alexandru Stan amstan-asteroids * r00b7d95 / asteroids.py : small asteroids experiment in pyqt - http://git.io/zLXomQ 2012-01-02T21:26:29 aichallenge: Alexandru Stan amstan-asteroids * rfb75bcc / asteroids.py : added bullet collisions, but ship won't die - http://git.io/AUJN-g 2012-01-02T21:28:01 *** nha_ has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T21:30:06 *** Fandekasp has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T21:31:16 *** nha has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2012-01-02T21:32:50 <-- n00b, how do get rid of the +'s when cutting and pasting from github? 2012-01-02T21:33:25 *** dorisabayon has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2012-01-02T21:33:42 nm 2012-01-02T21:33:43 ->Browse code -> asteroids.py -> raw 2012-01-02T21:33:46 i got it :) 2012-01-02T21:34:00 ty tho 2012-01-02T21:36:58 interesting prototype 2012-01-02T21:37:44 *** nha_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2012-01-02T21:38:59 *** Paradoxial has quit IRC (Quit: :) 2012-01-02T21:41:38 MettaWorldPeace: did you guys get it going? 2012-01-02T21:45:49 *** MettaWorldPeace_ has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T21:46:00 yep 2012-01-02T21:46:03 *** CowTipperVirus has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2012-01-02T21:46:03 *** MettaWorldPeace has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2012-01-02T21:46:03 got it going 2012-01-02T21:46:58 start button didn't do anything but I guess it's not supposed to yet 2012-01-02T21:47:11 saw the little guy flying around shooting 2012-01-02T21:48:54 yeah... that right thing is useless 2012-01-02T21:48:57 removing it actually.. 2012-01-02T21:49:25 i was hoping the next one would involve pathfinding 2012-01-02T21:49:37 I've just not got it figued out 2012-01-02T21:50:11 not much traffic on tcpants tho 2012-01-02T21:51:00 Yeah, got it running after a bit of EVO 2012-01-02T22:21:49 *** Paradoxial has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T22:23:01 *** CowTipperVirus has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T22:36:48 *** Paradoxial has left #aichallenge (":") 2012-01-02T22:53:41 aichallenge: Alexandru Stan amstan-asteroids * r5d2ab68 / (4 files): working HelloWorld ship AI - http://git.io/JoW9mA 2012-01-02T23:15:47 aichallenge: Alexandru Stan amstan-asteroids * r5179507 / (AsteroidsPrototype.py SittingDuckAI.py TargeterAI.py): added other AIs - http://git.io/tWtmGA 2012-01-02T23:26:55 pairofdice, MettaWorldPeace_: well, i'm done for today 2012-01-02T23:26:57 have a look 2012-01-02T23:27:14 checked it out 2012-01-02T23:27:39 so hello world is what we have to improve? 2012-01-02T23:27:47 like the starter bot? 2012-01-02T23:28:50 MettaWorldPeace_: no idea yet, just a test 2012-01-02T23:28:55 *** Fandekasp has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2012-01-02T23:29:03 MettaWorldPeace_: perhaps.. 2012-01-02T23:29:22 targetai is also a good start 2012-01-02T23:29:32 looking forward to it 2012-01-02T23:29:36 but it always shoots where they were, it could predict where they're going 2012-01-02T23:29:43 aka linear targeting 2012-01-02T23:29:58 but then you could also dodge 2012-01-02T23:30:01 ah 2012-01-02T23:30:28 a whole new ball of wax 2012-01-02T23:30:36 also i also need to get asteroids and more collisions 2012-01-02T23:31:10 And either wrapping or just bounce off the wall 2012-01-02T23:31:17 yes.. wrapping too 2012-01-02T23:32:01 How faithful to asteroids do you want to be 2012-01-02T23:32:12 not sure 2012-01-02T23:32:27 i urge people to fork and try it out 2012-01-02T23:44:40 are there input specs anywhere? 2012-01-02T23:44:49 *** jstrong has joined #aichallenge 2012-01-02T23:45:39 *** CowTipperVirus has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2012-01-02T23:47:53 antimatroid: yeah, shoot, dh and ds 2012-01-02T23:48:01 all in one line, lol 2012-01-02T23:48:09 what is dh and ds? 2012-01-02T23:48:18 ds is acceleration 2012-01-02T23:48:26 dh is how fast you want to turn 2012-01-02T23:48:36 so you can only turn in one direction? 2012-01-02T23:48:40 shoot(velocity) 2012-01-02T23:48:52 you go negative dh if you wanna turn the other way 2012-01-02T23:50:12 what's input data for asteroids, enemies etc? 2012-01-02T23:50:24 i assume you get like a position, radius, direction and speed? 2012-01-02T23:50:45 well.. you have access to everything that's in the ship class 2012-01-02T23:50:51 there's no asteroids yet 2012-01-02T23:51:04 aren't there in that youtube movie? 2012-01-02T23:51:12 it's not the same one 2012-01-02T23:51:57 ah okay 2012-01-02T23:53:52 can one interact with bots that aren't written in python? 2012-01-02T23:54:12 hence my question about input :P 2012-01-02T23:55:24 no 2012-01-02T23:55:30 you'll need a python class