2012-06-27T00:14:22 *** pairofdice has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T01:20:17 *** Areks has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T01:26:23 *** thestinger has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8) 2012-06-27T01:26:48 *** thestinger has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T01:37:30 *** Accoun has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2012-06-27T02:06:37 *** mceier has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T02:11:24 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T02:20:04 *** NoxiaZ^ has quit IRC () 2012-06-27T02:28:44 *** Garf has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T02:32:19 *** antimatroid has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2012-06-27T02:32:33 *** antimatroid has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T02:37:48 *** thestinger has quit IRC (Quit: sleep) 2012-06-27T03:06:35 *** coeus has quit IRC (*.net *.split) 2012-06-27T03:06:35 *** cyphase has quit IRC (*.net *.split) 2012-06-27T03:06:36 *** AlbireoX has quit IRC (*.net *.split) 2012-06-27T03:07:18 *** AlbireoX has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T03:09:33 *** coeus has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T03:09:55 *** antimatroid has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2012-06-27T03:12:08 *** epicmonkey has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T03:13:14 *** cyphase has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T03:13:31 *** antimatroid has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T03:27:00 *** epicmonkey has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2012-06-27T04:07:04 *** kurnevsky has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T04:31:53 *** X-Scale has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2012-06-27T04:38:03 *** epicmonkey has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T04:44:51 *** bqf_ is now known as bqf 2012-06-27T04:44:52 *** bqf has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T05:04:35 *** nha has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T05:19:21 *** nha has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2012-06-27T05:34:51 *** nha has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T05:51:54 *** nha has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2012-06-27T06:07:23 *** nha has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T06:11:45 *** nha has left #aichallenge 2012-06-27T06:28:05 *** foRei has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T06:34:29 *** kurnevsky has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2012-06-27T06:43:23 *** delt0r_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2012-06-27T06:57:07 *** delt0r_ has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T07:40:17 *** antimatroid has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2012-06-27T07:54:56 *** antimatroid has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T08:24:31 *** Palmik has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T09:31:24 *** Girffe has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T09:32:14 I noticed that account creation is closed, is there still any chance for me to be a part of this? 2012-06-27T09:32:24 Also, when are tournaments held/is the next one held? 2012-06-27T09:51:48 Girffe: you mean for ants? 2012-06-27T09:51:51 its long over 2012-06-27T09:52:07 what is next is has yet to be decided 2012-06-27T09:52:29 also when is yet to be decided 2012-06-27T10:01:00 *** mleise has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T10:01:15 so, this has been on hold for 2 years? 2012-06-27T10:01:21 safe to assume it's kind of dead at the moment? 2012-06-27T10:03:33 afaik the last challenge was last year. 2012-06-27T10:03:47 And I should know, since I took part. 2012-06-27T10:05:58 Griffe: The last two constest were "Planet Wars" and "Ants", and both were a lot of fun :D 2012-06-27T10:06:39 *** mceier has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2012-06-27T10:07:25 I missed the Planet Wars. :( 2012-06-27T10:07:32 But it is correct, that the contest is on hold until further notice. 2012-06-27T10:07:34 I noticed it when there was 3 days remaining. 2012-06-27T10:08:19 ronchamon: I came late for it, too. But I made got an acceptable place in the end ~300 I think 2012-06-27T10:09:49 I liked it so much, that I helped with the development of Ants in the next year. 2012-06-27T10:10:39 That said, the more people volunteer to help the better. But that's not the hold up at the moment I think. I have not followed it much recently 2012-06-27T10:20:18 *** Girffe has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2012-06-27T10:31:36 mleise: is sort of on hold since putting a lot of time into things that don't get used is not going to help 2012-06-27T10:32:27 delt0r: what does not get used? 2012-06-27T10:32:41 You sound like there wont be another contest 2012-06-27T10:33:17 I hope there will be... but unless jeff comes out from what ever rock he is under... it will be hard to have another one at all 2012-06-27T10:33:36 really we need him to pass the mantel over as it were 2012-06-27T10:33:56 So... let's just say "Hi Jeff. We take over the contest from you, k? thx." 2012-06-27T10:34:19 with me I mean amstan and company 2012-06-27T10:34:23 we tried that ---he doesn't like it then makes everything different 2012-06-27T10:34:24 sorry, *we 2012-06-27T10:34:40 I thought you tried it 2012-06-27T10:34:46 as ants 2012-06-27T10:35:06 I wasn't involved. Amstan would know better. 2012-06-27T10:35:10 k 2012-06-27T10:35:24 where is HE nowadays? 2012-06-27T10:35:33 ? 2012-06-27T10:35:39 who knows... 2012-06-27T10:35:49 well amstan does turn up now and then 2012-06-27T10:35:50 all the regulars disappear 2012-06-27T10:35:57 k 2012-06-27T10:36:36 I am keen to help a bit, but not if means getting railroaded at the last min because someone finally decieded to check their email 2012-06-27T10:36:52 fair enough :) 2012-06-27T10:37:14 I was hoping to run into Amstan and co face to face, will be in Toronto next month 2012-06-27T10:37:41 do you live far from there? 2012-06-27T10:37:48 Austria? 2012-06-27T10:37:50 is that far? 2012-06-27T10:37:52 :D 2012-06-27T10:38:09 oh right, I remember you were german speaker 2012-06-27T10:38:11 I am from NZ and only got back from a trip a few weeks ago... now that is far 2012-06-27T10:38:42 Me? no i can't speak a word of the language... unless i am ording a beer 2012-06-27T10:38:56 Even so i have lived here for 6 years now 2012-06-27T10:39:04 really? then I only remembered the austria in the back of the attic 2012-06-27T10:39:13 will be moving to Switzerland soon 2012-06-27T10:39:35 oh, maybe your french or italian is better then? 2012-06-27T10:39:44 :p 2012-06-27T10:40:02 no yet anyway... but since i know i will be there for 4 years... i will put a bit more effort into it 2012-06-27T10:40:16 I have only had one year contracts here... 2012-06-27T10:40:48 ok, it would be nice if the contest continued, but it looks like with no Jeff or official Google sponsoring it is difficult to get things planned and done. 2012-06-27T10:41:21 *** thestinger has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T10:41:23 If we could get the "jeff is standing down" i think there is more than enough of us to make it work personally 2012-06-27T10:41:35 so you moved to europe for one year contracts? did you work for the same company in NZ? 2012-06-27T10:41:42 or if jeff would just i don't know ---answer a bloody email... 2012-06-27T10:41:55 mleise: I work at uni 2012-06-27T10:41:59 PostDoc 2012-06-27T10:42:17 ok, i get the picture 2012-06-27T10:42:56 is jeff even alive? maybe he got kidnapped or thrown into a river with a block of concrete around his feet 2012-06-27T10:43:00 For example i think we can easily wrangle up enough support for servers and things...It does take time however 2012-06-27T10:43:26 enough *monetary* support for servers? or just people to run them? 2012-06-27T10:43:27 mleise: They did have a meeting a few months ago i was told 2012-06-27T10:43:52 the result was "we should have a more serious meeting soon" ... it never did happen 2012-06-27T10:44:00 *sigh* 2012-06-27T10:44:03 cash is just for the servers 2012-06-27T10:44:14 EC2 instances and the web server 2012-06-27T10:44:17 of course 2012-06-27T10:44:54 I think i could get a uni behind it, and then use some of the cluster resources we have 2012-06-27T10:45:19 Case in point i would be willing to *try* and get a uni behind it 2012-06-27T10:45:22 that would be really nice. they are often unused I've been told 2012-06-27T10:45:43 well some are, some are not. the 6k core one is pretty full a lot of the time 2012-06-27T10:45:55 the 500core one i have is often empty 2012-06-27T10:46:00 esp in summer 2012-06-27T10:46:12 You know if you got the Minecraft inventor behind the challenge, everyone would suddenly want to support it 2012-06-27T10:46:24 well i do know him from IRC 2012-06-27T10:46:38 he kinda a bit aloft these days... 2012-06-27T10:46:55 even github proudly supports DCPU16 assembly, it *is* rediculous :p 2012-06-27T10:47:03 lol 2012-06-27T10:47:15 yea--use the fame luke 2012-06-27T10:47:21 stupid force 2012-06-27T10:47:55 I think the ai challenge is pretty popular as is... and 2x a year it would get very popular 2012-06-27T10:48:12 at least more popular than there cash/servers 2012-06-27T10:48:38 mleise: how much of that is having googles name in the comp do you think? 2012-06-27T10:48:54 no idea, but I think a lot 2012-06-27T10:49:16 I am inclined to agree... 2012-06-27T10:49:17 People associate quality of service with the name 2012-06-27T10:49:24 that is really jeff;s bit 2012-06-27T10:49:27 fairness, good uptime 2012-06-27T10:49:54 I could do EU ai challenge --but without the google..... hard to know if anyone would give a crap 2012-06-27T10:50:04 Even with the "Google is the new Microsoft" phrases, it is a strong "brand" 2012-06-27T10:50:19 indeed 2012-06-27T10:50:56 either way. It would be better to not split off... 2012-06-27T10:51:24 i just can't shake the feeling that its the only way to get this as responsive as the players want it to be 2012-06-27T10:52:12 say 2 comps a year. One major and one minor 2012-06-27T10:52:27 We need a solid framework for this 2012-06-27T10:52:44 if we keep reinventing as much, we cannot keep up with this rate 2012-06-27T10:52:48 we do have people who want to work on that. ie me 2012-06-27T10:52:50 like the scoring system 2012-06-27T10:53:17 and really its not much of a frame work... what was it last time.. less than 10k people 2012-06-27T10:53:18 we used a lot of time in the past to find algorithms and test 2012-06-27T10:54:01 yea... and that will kinda always be a point of "conflict" or change 2012-06-27T10:54:08 a framework for contests, I mean. so you can quickly replace the game engine and parts of the visualizer and get the next contest up and running 2012-06-27T10:54:28 with a basic framework however the new things can be rolled forward slowly and reliably. 2012-06-27T10:55:06 yea... seriously its not a hard web project. Its something i would give a competent summer student to do 2012-06-27T10:55:16 also something that could be done with a uni backing it 2012-06-27T10:56:04 mleise: I was ready to do such a framework when even amstan? said to wait and see what is up with jeff 2012-06-27T10:56:06 I've been told that the "cost" of software has several dimensions, like interfaces, scalability etc. 2012-06-27T10:56:20 it was going to use one of the python web frameworks 2012-06-27T10:56:36 since that seems like what most would want 2012-06-27T10:56:57 if one student coded it up as a sumer project, it would have one interface, it won't scale and the Jeff dimension isn't even talked about :p 2012-06-27T10:57:01 mleise: i use to work on some very large web/network things 2012-06-27T10:57:22 ok I trust you on that 2012-06-27T10:57:55 although I already feel this urge to look at what you are coding up and do the usual bike shedding ^^ 2012-06-27T10:58:01 something like this is not so hard. Since only the web server needs fancy multi stuff and something like is been done to death 2012-06-27T10:58:20 I didn't code anything in the end 2012-06-27T10:58:56 the idea was to keep it pretty simple.. scaling was to be achieved by adding game servers 2012-06-27T10:59:00 don't forget the offline stuff, TCP server/client, local testing and visualization, installers 2012-06-27T10:59:30 yea. again we have people who want to do this... for whatever game gets decided on.. 2012-06-27T10:59:30 I see, I know too little about web servers 2012-06-27T11:00:04 I really don't know why so many companies stuff up web serving... we have been doing a really long time now 2012-06-27T11:00:20 what does stuff up mean? 2012-06-27T11:00:25 either way... clean readable code... that is where it all start 2012-06-27T11:00:56 stuff up means there server dies when they get a few 100 people using the web site at the same time... 2012-06-27T11:01:15 say when they do a product release at a big press conference 2012-06-27T11:01:17 ah ok. i have an idea 2012-06-27T11:01:24 *** Areks has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2012-06-27T11:01:29 few 100 is nothing these days. 2012-06-27T11:01:47 really getting /. or digged should not bring a server down 2012-06-27T11:01:56 their frameworks are uber productive, but a "little" slower than others 2012-06-27T11:02:01 perhaps a little slower... but not down 2012-06-27T11:02:12 no 2012-06-27T11:02:29 and anything they buy should be pretty secure already 2012-06-27T11:03:05 security is another thing... at least don't use any of the crap php forum software and your a winner... 2012-06-27T11:03:07 although our TCP server for ants had security issues as well as I pointed out by downloading /bin/bash :p 2012-06-27T11:03:20 the tcp server was pretty bad 2012-06-27T11:03:24 only everyone uses the php fourm software 2012-06-27T11:03:34 thestinger: yea... but it is just for testing 2012-06-27T11:03:49 thestinger: hehe, it was fun anyway and nothing happened 2012-06-27T11:05:05 but non of these things matter as much as sorting out the Jeff issue... he is the boss and he won't answer the phone 2012-06-27T11:05:26 I really think we have more than enough people to make it work 2012-06-27T11:05:39 I'm following the D news group and found this to be interesting: http://vibed.org/ . They basically go back to native code execution for the web server. 2012-06-27T11:06:10 delt0r: and I guess out of this frustration you imagined the EU ai challenge? 2012-06-27T11:06:21 yea 2012-06-27T11:06:32 *** mceier has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T11:06:39 oh and maybe because of the EM ;) 2012-06-27T11:06:40 but i don't want to upset anyone... 2012-06-27T11:06:45 or do I? 2012-06-27T11:06:53 ? EM 2012-06-27T11:06:57 mleise: does that use libuv? 2012-06-27T11:07:09 soccer champions league 2012-06-27T11:07:19 oh, it doesn't atm but the author plans on adding a driver for it 2012-06-27T11:08:06 mleise: the only thing with different web servers etc is that we kinda decided to stick with python for the sake of consistency 2012-06-27T11:08:46 but yea, there are a lot of quite solid, scalable solutions out there. 2012-06-27T11:08:56 That's not what I wanted to hint to :). It's just an example of how to make web servers as responsive as possible 2012-06-27T11:09:46 oh right... yea a lot of enterprise more or less does that 2012-06-27T11:10:26 I only know of ... Facebook? that compile to PHP to C (again: ?) code. 2012-06-27T11:10:49 well that is a different scale again... 2012-06-27T11:11:07 mleise: well, they compile it to C++ but afaik they also have a lot of actual C++ code 2012-06-27T11:11:16 and they're probably moving towards that and away from php 2012-06-27T11:11:57 https://github.com/facebook/folly/tree/master/folly they released that a while ago (some random internal C++11 stuff they use) 2012-06-27T11:12:04 web apps are IO bound thou... can see a big advantage of C++ over say Java, or scala or some other cache compiled lang 2012-06-27T11:12:58 @author Andrei Alexandrescu. I see him often on the D news group and IRC 2012-06-27T11:12:58 mleise: Error: 'Andrei' is not a valid plugin. 2012-06-27T11:12:58 perhaps some fancy C kernal calls in linux could get some big gains... aka git 2012-06-27T11:13:28 *** mcstar has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T11:13:43 He is one of those C++ gurus 2012-06-27T11:13:56 mleise: and apparently works for facebook now :P 2012-06-27T11:14:02 * thestinger finds that funny 2012-06-27T11:14:09 he never hid that 2012-06-27T11:14:32 mleise: do you use D a bit? 2012-06-27T11:14:33 but he pitties that he doesn't have enough time for his projects 2012-06-27T11:14:41 delt0r: a bit? :) 2012-06-27T11:14:49 lol 2012-06-27T11:14:51 Yes, I used it bit by bit 2012-06-27T11:14:59 D is a pretty nice language 2012-06-27T11:15:02 I manage the package for Gentoo currently 2012-06-27T11:15:12 right... 2012-06-27T11:15:12 D2, that is 2012-06-27T11:15:44 well i do a lot of R too ... we could combine the packages and have R2D2 2012-06-27T11:15:45 I couldn't go back to using "vector>" 2012-06-27T11:15:56 delt0r: lol 2012-06-27T11:16:32 "R2D2 - the fine programming languages pack" 2012-06-27T11:16:39 hehe 2012-06-27T11:17:17 It does have rough corners, like the missing implementation of the "shared" attribute 2012-06-27T11:17:34 Some things that look great on paper, prove difficult to implement 2012-06-27T11:18:03 every lang has some rough edges ... its just how close to those edges you need to when solving what ever it is your doing 2012-06-27T11:18:15 in C++ is seems like all rough edges... 2012-06-27T11:18:33 C feels like glorified Assembly 2012-06-27T11:18:47 Actually I like how Java stayed true to its concept for many years 2012-06-27T11:18:52 Java is neither, and a master of none. 2012-06-27T11:18:53 well, C++ just has too much legacy stuff and backwards compatibility 2012-06-27T11:19:00 D is basically a clean break from that 2012-06-27T11:19:06 and Rust is a similar idea 2012-06-27T11:19:38 Java is the master of OOP :) 2012-06-27T11:20:10 the API is intuitive, methods got renamed if they could be misinterpreted 2012-06-27T11:20:10 Java is the master of group OOP... in that you don't break other peoples code when you be a dick 2012-06-27T11:20:27 C++, not so much 2012-06-27T11:21:36 C++ has a comfortable position: there are compilers for it on every platform and OS 2012-06-27T11:21:42 well i like lisp... and either way... i often think there still must be a better way 2012-06-27T11:22:01 DONT 2012-06-27T11:22:03 what does one like about forests of parenthesis? 2012-06-27T11:22:06 i just finished reading the logs 2012-06-27T11:22:54 mleise: yes and no... the standard libs are pathetic... its 2012 and i have to use different code to write/read sockets on differnt platforms with the same hardware! 2012-06-27T11:23:17 delt0r: for C++? there are a _lot_ of nice libs though 2012-06-27T11:23:25 libraries definitely isn't a weakness for C++ 2012-06-27T11:23:30 LISP 2012-06-27T11:23:33 mleise: syntax seen and unseen. Python its spaces, C/C++/Java its different brackets and ; and stuff 2012-06-27T11:23:51 delt0r: you could always use clojure though 2012-06-27T11:24:02 thestinger: yea but cross platform code is still a total bitch and by now it shouldn't be 2012-06-27T11:24:19 in any lang... the standard libs should be way better by now 2012-06-27T11:24:19 bleh, language wars 2012-06-27T11:24:29 (use clojure if you want a modern lisp) 2012-06-27T11:24:31 mcstar: where? 2012-06-27T11:24:33 mcstar: not really 2012-06-27T11:24:43 keep telling that 2012-06-27T11:25:13 started with 'what will happen with the contest', but now its about 'i like this language more than that, but all suck' 2012-06-27T11:25:20 mcstar: well otherwise its rag on jeff 2012-06-27T11:25:48 mcstar: also good summary --its how i feel about programing langs 2012-06-27T11:26:06 Yes, we discuss languages, but we don't trench ourselves in one language. :) 2012-06-27T11:26:10 so what do you think about breaking off a new comp mcstar 2012-06-27T11:26:18 yeah, but this sort of talk repeat itself, sort of boring to hear it from time to time again 2012-06-27T11:26:33 delt0r: great 2012-06-27T11:26:38 really? 2012-06-27T11:26:42 mcstar: you need a break from computers that's all 2012-06-27T11:28:10 mleise: im studying math atm, little break from physics, stopped computer stuff weeks ago 2012-06-27T11:28:12 I was thinking if i can't get a hold of jeff/amstan etc next month then... well perhaps. Will try with getting the uni behind it 2012-06-27T11:28:25 ok, I'm afk. Now starts the talk that *I* heard before ;) 2012-06-27T11:28:51 mleise: sry, im silent 2012-06-27T11:28:51 mleise: we all have... the jeff issue is a old one... like 3 years old 2012-06-27T11:29:35 no, the "EU ai challenge" talk 2012-06-27T11:29:48 oh 2012-06-27T11:30:11 just go ahead, I wanted to go running ... if it doesn't rain 2012-06-27T11:30:55 damn weather these days, i hope the public vewing tomorrow will be better :D 2012-06-27T11:31:12 mleise: well you didn't say if you think its a good idea? 2012-06-27T11:31:36 I didn't want to crush your idea. 2012-06-27T11:31:59 its soo annoying, where i run, the vegetation has grown quite a bit, and spiders tend to have their webs on the lower branches, usually im the one whose face collects the webs 2012-06-27T11:32:00 It's nice, but I am a pessimist 2012-06-27T11:32:05 well i want to know what others are thinking... i know a lot of competitors just want a comp 2012-06-27T11:32:23 and that could get things rolling 2012-06-27T11:32:41 on the otherhand noone knows the new adress, it looks unofficial, no google etc... 2012-06-27T11:32:50 sorry for my spelling 2012-06-27T11:33:27 oh, i would do something about that...start with a uni affiliation etc. get some sponsor on board... 2012-06-27T11:33:36 ok, first things first 2012-06-27T11:33:51 yea... try to get this one working first.... 2012-06-27T11:34:00 mcstar: I had a cellar spider (called Zitterspinne here) crawling right through the air over 5 meters 2012-06-27T11:34:17 the contest needs to identify itself, people have to be able to differentiate it from everything else, we need branding 2012-06-27T11:34:23 we need a name and a good logo 2012-06-27T11:34:36 probably should keep Ai Challenge 2012-06-27T11:34:40 it hang from a door frame for a while and then disappeared in the room, like it just created a rope to the other wall 2012-06-27T11:34:50 since google had nothing to do with the contest except funding 2012-06-27T11:35:09 mleise: thats a HUGE spider 2012-06-27T11:35:25 uh, a string then? 2012-06-27T11:35:29 Ideally we keep this one... its great... but its bloody frustrating as well 2012-06-27T11:35:30 5m spider 2012-06-27T11:35:49 delt0r: we would really need a professional logo 2012-06-27T11:35:54 mcstar: in fact some years google gave no funding 2012-06-27T11:36:26 just permitted us to use the name... at least that was what i was told 2012-06-27T11:36:43 * mleise agrees 2012-06-27T11:37:08 mcstar: not sure if i buy that. what does professional mean in this context...because i don't think expensive gets the job done 2012-06-27T11:38:16 At greenpeace we had some supporters that helped us out, like a photographer. maybe there is a graphics artist amongst us, like the one amstan knowns 2012-06-27T11:38:48 another thing, iirc this was mentioned when the Core last talked, that it might be possible to write a distributed engine, i thought about this some weeks before that, so the idea is that contestants would donate as much CPU power as they can, buy running the engine in a secure distributed environment, the only thing im not sure how to manage, is language diversity. this contest is great for being to use 2012-06-27T11:38:50 any language you like(within reason), and i dont want to see that taken away 2012-06-27T11:39:16 mcstar: I fancied this idea for a while, too 2012-06-27T11:39:21 delt0r: something, that looks good enough, and wouldnt need changing 2012-06-27T11:39:50 i mean over time 2012-06-27T11:40:13 so as to establish the quality of the contest, and its independence 2012-06-27T11:40:41 yea... i really would want to keep language diversity and accessibility for very green coders 2012-06-27T11:41:52 as for the distribution part...quite a few contestants where alarmed that it would make cheating easier. But otherwise i think something could be make to work 2012-06-27T11:41:56 The trouble is, that the clients need to run, say, PHP code from other people 2012-06-27T11:42:07 even if is something like a live boot DVD 2012-06-27T11:42:34 there would be some serious trust involved. either way 2012-06-27T11:42:41 ok, rebooting your computer into a clean OS is a bad requirement ;) 2012-06-27T11:42:47 it is 2012-06-27T11:42:55 i dont mean anything like that 2012-06-27T11:42:56 i thought more of a virtual machine in the host 2012-06-27T11:43:04 but i think the kind of "donation" we are talking about are spare machines 2012-06-27T11:43:07 That's a bit heavy requirement 2012-06-27T11:43:16 ie i have 4 at home 2012-06-27T11:43:23 delt0r: wut ? 2012-06-27T11:43:38 we are not talking about seti@home 2012-06-27T11:43:47 ok, i have a spare 866 Mhz CPU 2012-06-27T11:43:47 you can run a self contained virtual machine on top of the os, the problem is having all the diferent runtimes on that virtual OS 2012-06-27T11:43:57 that just won't work without forcing language requirements 2012-06-27T11:44:10 delt0r: it could 2012-06-27T11:44:21 mcstar: and if its not configured exactly right then half the bots don't run 2012-06-27T11:44:29 but it would need a larger download on the part of the donatee 2012-06-27T11:44:34 ergh 2012-06-27T11:44:42 donor 2012-06-27T11:44:44 not to mention that configuring would be nightmare to do properly 2012-06-27T11:45:01 delt0r: you would need to configure it only once 2012-06-27T11:45:11 what mcstar said 2012-06-27T11:45:12 most will be fairly new to even the idea of a virtual OS 2012-06-27T11:45:26 otherwise you need to set it up on every donated computer 2012-06-27T11:45:27 they basically wouldnt need to touch a thing 2012-06-27T11:45:49 one virtual machine is better than 20 language packs 2012-06-27T11:45:51 ?? what? 2012-06-27T11:46:16 yea and try and get 100 people to configure there machines to have the vos ? 2012-06-27T11:46:17 ah i see a confusion 2012-06-27T11:46:34 nothing but 5 years of support emails 2012-06-27T11:46:43 mleise: try to sort this out then 2012-06-27T11:46:52 i dont see what deltor doesnt get 2012-06-27T11:47:03 delt0r: you don't need to configure anything 2012-06-27T11:47:09 I see what I didn't get 2012-06-27T11:47:17 you install virtualbox and use the image that would be distributed 2012-06-27T11:47:20 no configuration needed 2012-06-27T11:47:21 mcstar: you think most people will be able to configure a virtual os... 2012-06-27T11:47:24 all the languages already there 2012-06-27T11:47:29 thestinger: why not... 2012-06-27T11:47:30 and you can have the same environment as the server will 2012-06-27T11:47:41 donated PC vs. donated CPU time / VM vs. no VM 2012-06-27T11:47:51 how do you get a vos on these machines without the user configuring one 2012-06-27T11:48:04 The live DVD for donated PCs seems the easiest solution 2012-06-27T11:48:09 delt0r: they just have to install it 2012-06-27T11:48:16 same as if they want to download a language pack 2012-06-27T11:48:30 have you done this before? 2012-06-27T11:48:57 because i don't belevie that for one second... given the issues even the offical servers had with some compatablity issues 2012-06-27T11:48:59 I have never created a live DVD, no 2012-06-27T11:49:13 delt0r: what do you mean? 2012-06-27T11:49:18 mleise: its quite easy.. 2012-06-27T11:49:50 delt0r: well, a live install could be an alternative to a VM 2012-06-27T11:49:51 thestinger: i mean there is no VOS that just downloads and installs and just works the same everywhere... 2012-06-27T11:49:57 delt0r: imagine, i make a virtual disk, maybe in several flavors for several VirtualMachines, this disk would have a small linux kernel, with all the runtimes of al the languages there are, not the donor downloads this, and fires up his favorite VM with the disk image, after that, he doenst need to do anything 2012-06-27T11:50:21 not -> then 2012-06-27T11:50:27 ok, so we would offer a VM image + a live DVD 2012-06-27T11:50:28 not -> now 2012-06-27T11:50:36 mcstar: i think you underestimate how different a VM is from the real thing 2012-06-27T11:50:57 for example the memory issues with java... 2012-06-27T11:51:04 how is it different? just slower 2012-06-27T11:51:07 delt0r: i used virtualbox, qemu, qemu-kvm, vmware 2012-06-27T11:51:20 delt0r: it can be given any amount of memory 2012-06-27T11:51:35 and you just provide the config file 2012-06-27T11:51:45 te user imports the virtual environment and thats all 2012-06-27T11:51:48 shared memory and Vmemory is not handled well at lest by some --hell its handled wrong 2012-06-27T11:51:50 the 2012-06-27T11:52:11 im sorry, who cares/ 2012-06-27T11:52:12 for example all the java issues for the last 2 comps... 2012-06-27T11:52:14 ? 2012-06-27T11:52:23 delt0r: what was the VM on the server called? OpenVM? 2012-06-27T11:52:42 come on, java runs on cell phones from the 1980's at least 2012-06-27T11:53:30 I don't recall... but it borked some virtual memory stuff. For example the JVM uses memory mapped files... the true amount of ram used is really low, but not to the VM used 2012-06-27T11:53:34 mcstar: it is Java for mobile devices that runs there ;) 2012-06-27T11:53:53 this is just an example 2012-06-27T11:53:55 yeah, im kidding the point is it isnt impossible 2012-06-27T11:54:31 but the current implementations expect to get gigabytes of virtual memory 2012-06-27T11:54:33 so mapped files and other allocation tricks do trip up a lot of virtual solutions 2012-06-27T11:54:57 jvm just like sbcl can allocate more than physical ram 2012-06-27T11:55:02 but thats not a problem 2012-06-27T11:55:16 linux by default permit overallocation 2012-06-27T11:55:20 or C... everything uses vmem and memory mapped files 2012-06-27T11:55:33 IF the linux kernel is configure to not allow that, youre fucked 2012-06-27T11:55:35 C programs usually behave ;) 2012-06-27T11:56:01 (excuse my typos, this new keyboard is killing me) 2012-06-27T11:56:20 well, the point is that some virtual machines have problems with some virtual machines 2012-06-27T11:56:33 mcstar: it was a problem in the last comp... that is my point... its not all "just run that" otherwise there would have less issues last time around 2012-06-27T11:57:06 delt0r: were they in control of the OS? 2012-06-27T11:57:21 it was a problem with the specific virtual machine used by the beta test servers 2012-06-27T11:57:27 no control of the host os 2012-06-27T11:57:34 right 2012-06-27T11:57:36 EC2? 2012-06-27T11:57:41 but we had 1 GB of ram 2012-06-27T11:57:45 no EC2 iirc 2012-06-27T11:57:48 the one donated by demerzel? 2012-06-27T11:57:51 maybe 2012-06-27T11:57:55 i don't know 2012-06-27T11:57:58 i think it was that 2012-06-27T11:57:59 yea... but then you don't control the hardwere here either 2012-06-27T11:58:29 delt0r: the VM could have allocated 1GB real ram, while a program inside it 8GB 2012-06-27T11:58:30 Either way it could be done both ways 2012-06-27T11:58:35 so Java allocates 1 GB of virtual memory and the virtual server went hay wire 2012-06-27T11:59:24 we could blacklist virtual machines where virtual memory equals RAM 2012-06-27T11:59:28 and, take into account, that probably, there wouldnt be as many running instances of the bots on a donor PC than on a cloud instance 2012-06-27T11:59:40 well its not really virtual if it can't handle what is considered best practice for many applications (aka memory mapped files for example) 2012-06-27T11:59:49 mcstar: one game with 8 bots = 8 GB RAM 2012-06-27T12:00:08 well i do have 16 gig here :D 2012-06-27T12:00:22 obviously, you cant allow 1GB real ram per bot 2012-06-27T12:00:22 delt0r: are there VMs that don't support memory mapped files at all? 2012-06-27T12:00:38 and it isnt necessary anyway 2012-06-27T12:00:41 mcstar: so you need to modify the Java start up parameters 2012-06-27T12:00:42 no... they just try to allocate real ram... 2012-06-27T12:00:54 so a 1TB mapped file... is not going to wokr 2012-06-27T12:00:56 work 2012-06-27T12:01:05 ok, but who *does* that? 2012-06-27T12:01:11 *** _flag <_flag!~flag@69-165-173-172.dsl.teksavvy.com> has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T12:01:28 well for this comp apparently the jvm.. 2012-06-27T12:01:40 i thought it was just virtual memory? 2012-06-27T12:01:51 but we do it here all the time.. for large files with random access its the standard way to be fast 2012-06-27T12:01:53 are you sure it was a memory mapped file? 2012-06-27T12:01:53 im not sure how memory mapped files are relevant 2012-06-27T12:02:20 delt0r: that's bad practise. allocate in windows of a few MB instead 2012-06-27T12:02:26 its the same thing... the number of pages, or VM is *not* the same as the amount of real RAM 2012-06-27T12:02:28 delt0r: its not like you need to visualize tons of gigabytes in bit 2012-06-27T12:02:29 e.g. "move" the mapping 2012-06-27T12:02:30 s 2012-06-27T12:03:01 but for some reason (can't think of any good ones) some VM treat them as the same... 2012-06-27T12:03:24 yes, let's black list those! 2012-06-27T12:03:37 I understood that VM allocation was largely for mapped files. But i could be wrong 2012-06-27T12:03:45 lets defer this conversation up until we face saomething like this IRL 2012-06-27T12:04:02 In Real Life 2012-06-27T12:04:05 mcstar: we kinda did on the beta test server 2012-06-27T12:04:07 what that 2012-06-27T12:04:21 it was a horrible experience 2012-06-27T12:04:24 mleise: im talking about this proof of concept virtual something 2012-06-27T12:04:36 if and when it comes up we discuss it 2012-06-27T12:04:41 well both options can be provided... bootable DVD image and a VM DVD image 2012-06-27T12:04:53 delt0r: not really 2012-06-27T12:05:04 why not? 2012-06-27T12:05:07 for a bootable thingy you need to support more hardware 2012-06-27T12:05:22 if you have a vm image you only need to support the common virtualized hardware 2012-06-27T12:05:40 that really is not hard...aka start with a standard linux boot 2012-06-27T12:06:14 what exotic hardware needs to be supported..? 2012-06-27T12:06:32 LPT Zip drive hard disks 2012-06-27T12:06:39 yeah, so a 5.5GHz 12Core machine will eat 500Watts of power, because the live cd doesnt support frequency scaling 2012-06-27T12:06:59 mcstar: WTF... they all bloody do? its not 1995 2012-06-27T12:07:12 hehe 2012-06-27T12:07:42 generic kernals do fine..and would support anything the VM gunna work on 2012-06-27T12:07:55 i know i wouldnt boot a PC just for that, but i'd run it on my OS 2012-06-27T12:08:26 I think there are few like me that could put hardware online for quite long periods of time 2012-06-27T12:08:55 It is kinda nice to have the main computer free. 2012-06-27T12:08:57 delt0r: so are you going to tell me, you gonna boot up a cluster from a live cd i provided? 2012-06-27T12:09:00 noway in hell 2012-06-27T12:09:07 i mean an extra 3-4 4 core machines would have gone a long way last time 2012-06-27T12:09:28 mcstar: i am going to check that dvd first... but sure, why not? 2012-06-27T12:09:42 I download linux images and boot them on that 2012-06-27T12:09:57 i dont intend to provide infiniband drivers.. 2012-06-27T12:10:10 why would you need to 2012-06-27T12:10:16 The competition files should be downloaded from the web though, in case we need to update something 2012-06-27T12:10:24 yes... 2012-06-27T12:10:25 delt0r: partly joking 2012-06-27T12:10:28 oh 2012-06-27T12:10:30 missed it 2012-06-27T12:10:31 hehe 2012-06-27T12:10:36 :P 2012-06-27T12:10:45 but commodity clusters use infiniband, at least around here 2012-06-27T12:11:27 (probably they work just fine with some common driver in 100th of the nominal throughput) 2012-06-27T12:11:53 just to be clear--these are just machines i am running at home... 2012-06-27T12:12:09 anyway, should we consider this distributed game engine notion seriously? 2012-06-27T12:12:23 if a real cluster would be put to use i would assume the cluster admins would deal with everything 2012-06-27T12:12:31 mcstar: yes... i suggested so... 2012-06-27T12:12:58 even with the cheating "issues" it can work in the run up phase where the ranking are not offical 2012-06-27T12:13:07 yes, but only if no servers can be bought 2012-06-27T12:13:11 this is where most complain about the lack of game rate 2012-06-27T12:13:23 someone still has to convince some poeple that their source code would be on other peoples computers 2012-06-27T12:13:34 only binary 2012-06-27T12:13:40 lol ;) 2012-06-27T12:13:42 since the offical rank is offline... and extra few days is no biggie 2012-06-27T12:13:43 and it would be secure 2012-06-27T12:13:48 binary PHP? 2012-06-27T12:13:48 in principle 2012-06-27T12:13:57 mleise: you got me there 2012-06-27T12:14:05 is that a computer language? 2012-06-27T12:14:13 :) 2012-06-27T12:14:20 i whish it wasn't 2012-06-27T12:14:30 i forgot for a moment that not everything compiles to native code 2012-06-27T12:14:30 it is the worst, second to brainfuck 2012-06-27T12:15:05 well i always though that we could just submit binary. Why do we need to submit source anyway? 2012-06-27T12:15:35 hmm, the binaries would have to be distributed as Intel 586 Linux 32-bit? 2012-06-27T12:16:18 delt0r: we need the source to determine the source language for the statistics overview 2012-06-27T12:16:42 well i would expect the servers to be multilib --both 64bit and 32bit. 2012-06-27T12:16:55 and because windows binaries have a hard time running on linux 2012-06-27T12:16:55 what?? 2012-06-27T12:16:56 nono 2012-06-27T12:17:04 mleise: right...there is always the "can get caught with evil code" too 2012-06-27T12:17:04 the user would upload the code to the site 2012-06-27T12:17:20 and 1 server would distribute the binary in a secure way among the donor pcs 2012-06-27T12:17:30 or the source... 2012-06-27T12:17:32 well windows source files had a hard time compiling too :D 2012-06-27T12:18:06 mcstar: use public keys. etc. something like github... bit of work however 2012-06-27T12:18:07 the code would run in a kernel sandbox 2012-06-27T12:18:24 im only in this, if it could be made secure 2012-06-27T12:18:29 as in secure 2012-06-27T12:18:40 not hand-wavin security 2012-06-27T12:18:44 mcstar: of course... 2012-06-27T12:18:46 mcstar: as in "noone can read my PHP code"? 2012-06-27T12:18:52 yes 2012-06-27T12:19:00 but real security is only true when your machine is turned off... 2012-06-27T12:19:00 :( 2012-06-27T12:19:27 delt0r: you can provide real life security against tampering and evasdropping 2012-06-27T12:20:05 well this is where the cheating arguments came from... players would run servers to cheat by looking at source or decompiling or whatever 2012-06-27T12:20:09 mcstar: anyone can modify the live DVD to send a copy of the incoming bot code to some email address 2012-06-27T12:20:13 ofc, if someone decides to debug the VM's instructions and reverse engineer the stuff... 2012-06-27T12:20:37 mcstar: like i said... just turn your computer off... BEFORE you write any code :D 2012-06-27T12:21:24 there is a trust case... or only non combatants can donate server time... Still hard to do. 2012-06-27T12:22:02 im sure something could be worked out, that would work in real life situations(assuming not computer geniuses with a 180 IQ attack the engine) 2012-06-27T12:22:21 that counts me out :/ 2012-06-27T12:22:58 having some way that some offical person/company can provide offical servers would be nice... but we are probably ahead of ourselfs... 2012-06-27T12:23:16 better to just get a cluster.... 2012-06-27T12:23:18 :D 2012-06-27T12:23:28 not necessairly, it must be clear from the start where would we want to run the engine 2012-06-27T12:24:06 if servers are not something the general public provide, where is the problem? 2012-06-27T12:24:18 read general public== people who enter 2012-06-27T12:24:35 delt0r: maybe we should opt for some EU fund: 'Teaching programming hands-on' 2012-06-27T12:24:58 yea... they are pretty good with that sort of stuff 2012-06-27T12:25:01 right, the EU likes to spend billions on hopeless cases ;) 2012-06-27T12:25:15 well i wouldn't ask for billions the first time... 2012-06-27T12:25:28 couple thousand would do 2012-06-27T12:25:31 but i may ask to borrow billons 2012-06-27T12:25:55 sure all the billions are "borrowed" 2012-06-27T12:26:08 ha! 2012-06-27T12:26:10 well, all the money is borrowed 2012-06-27T12:26:28 private banks loan money for governments 2012-06-27T12:26:31 *** dvladim has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T12:26:34 its a known fact that if you live in a nice sunny climate... you don't need to pay it back 2012-06-27T12:27:35 mcstar just made me wonder 2012-06-27T12:27:44 I have to think this trhough 2012-06-27T12:29:46 so much chatter 2012-06-27T12:29:53 i dont cheat! 2012-06-27T12:29:55 antimatroid: long time no chant 2012-06-27T12:29:58 chat 2012-06-27T12:30:04 oh, chat 2012-06-27T12:30:16 typos are my middle name 2012-06-27T12:30:17 i hate when people accuse me of cheating 2012-06-27T12:30:19 delt0r delt0r delt0r delt0r|!!! 2012-06-27T12:30:22 there we go :) 2012-06-27T12:33:06 antimatroid: so did you hear anything about what is happening 2012-06-27T12:33:15 nope? 2012-06-27T12:33:23 just checking 2012-06-27T12:33:41 phew, secret kept 2012-06-27T12:33:46 :\ :P 2012-06-27T12:34:43 antimatroid: we know you overheard the whole conversation 2012-06-27T12:34:50 oh from in here? 2012-06-27T12:34:52 we know there is nowhere you can hide 2012-06-27T12:34:52 i haven't read up 2012-06-27T12:34:58 we come and get you 2012-06-27T12:35:52 antimatroid: btw, it is a really realy bad idea, to read-up, from the bottom 2012-06-27T12:36:04 just scroll up, and read from the beginning 2012-06-27T12:36:14 my 2 cents 2012-06-27T12:36:48 yeah, it is not like there is any unrelated chat from the past days here ;) 2012-06-27T12:39:00 yeah, i have started reading 2012-06-27T12:39:03 although i should be marking :P 2012-06-27T12:39:16 antimatroid: the question i have (yes it is above), what do you think of a separate new comp 2012-06-27T12:42:17 delt0r: i don't think we'll get the same support without "Google" 2012-06-27T12:42:23 yea 2012-06-27T12:42:34 there are people who at least visit here with Google affiliation though 2012-06-27T12:42:37 which aren't jeff 2012-06-27T12:42:58 i think we'd be better off telling jeff to htfu or pass on responsibilities 2012-06-27T12:42:58 but right now we are having a hard time even saying when we will have the next comp 2012-06-27T12:43:21 i like the project euler type aim too 2012-06-27T12:43:28 ? 2012-06-27T12:43:29 have old contests up that people can continue working on 2012-06-27T12:43:32 which is what? 2012-06-27T12:43:34 i suspect with just tcp servers 2012-06-27T12:43:53 i want that more than new contests 2012-06-27T12:43:58 i want tron :P 2012-06-27T12:44:14 but you can do that already, cant you? 2012-06-27T12:44:15 I did like watching tron games... 2012-06-27T12:44:19 play offline against the top bots? 2012-06-27T12:44:42 and i dont really like games that degenerate into min/max trees 2012-06-27T12:44:58 i want to play against people online 2012-06-27T12:45:25 hm 2012-06-27T12:45:25 I think human playable is nice 2012-06-27T12:45:26 delt0r: those tron bots were awesome to watch and i want to play with a proper min/max tree again 2012-06-27T12:45:31 i've only ever done it with tron 2012-06-27T12:45:46 i found it boring 2012-06-27T12:45:47 while my other bots used a horrible bastardisation of min/max, tron really lets you explore the game tree 2012-06-27T12:46:00 i want to see what works best for pruning etc. 2012-06-27T12:46:06 i want to try out a bunch of different things 2012-06-27T12:47:31 running past contests is secondary 2012-06-27T12:47:44 challange==new problem==rush of adrenaline 2012-06-27T12:47:51 i disagree to some degree 2012-06-27T12:48:02 the contestant has to believe he can be the one to one 2012-06-27T12:48:10 to win * 2012-06-27T12:48:13 if past contests have people actively working with them we have a larger pool of volunteers to get other shit done with 2012-06-27T12:48:59 all i want is a nice official tcp server 2012-06-27T12:49:08 smiley1983 was working on a tcp server for a bit 2012-06-27T12:50:06 that is really just the framework problem 2012-06-27T12:50:24 I was/will work on that once the jeff thing is sorted 2012-06-27T12:56:29 lol, captain archer sliced the antenna off of the head of the andorian commander in the duel 2012-06-27T13:16:28 *** moises has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-06-27T13:32:05 *** dvladim has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2012-06-27T13:36:49 I added a GitHub isse "The Jeff Thing", tagged "organizational" 2012-06-27T13:37:14 we may end up picking a fight yet 2012-06-27T13:43:48 *** coeus has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2012-06-27T13:43:53 *** kurnevsky has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T13:46:50 we have the right 2012-06-27T13:46:58 we have the fork 2012-06-27T13:47:16 we have the will, we have the win 2012-06-27T13:47:58 hehe 2012-06-27T13:49:10 *** epicmonkey has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2012-06-27T13:53:58 who's watching ESP-POR? 2012-06-27T13:55:14 nopr 2012-06-27T13:55:17 nope 2012-06-27T13:55:57 *** coeus has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T14:29:31 are they playing today? 2012-06-27T14:30:42 mleise: almost starting 2012-06-27T14:33:23 2 degrees 2012-06-27T14:37:16 poor aussies 2012-06-27T14:39:47 it seems that the collatz orbits contain pairs of orbits of the same parity 2012-06-27T14:42:39 moderator: "spain won 1:0 already in the singing contest" 2012-06-27T14:43:55 *** delt0r_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2012-06-27T14:56:47 *** delt0r_ has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T15:00:19 *** kurnevsky1 has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T15:02:22 *** kurnevsky2 has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T15:02:22 *** kurnevsky1 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2012-06-27T15:03:02 *** kurnevsky has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2012-06-27T15:03:36 *** epicmonkey has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T15:08:11 *** kurnevsky has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T15:10:01 *** kurnevsky2 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2012-06-27T15:17:02 *** kurnevsky1 has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T15:17:31 *** kurnevsky has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2012-06-27T15:18:31 *** pairofdice has quit IRC (Quit: in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni) 2012-06-27T15:21:09 *** thestinger has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8) 2012-06-27T15:21:14 *** Accoun has quit IRC () 2012-06-27T15:22:22 *** thestinger has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T15:34:31 *** kurnevsky has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T15:36:14 *** kurnevsky1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2012-06-27T15:39:57 *** kurnevsky1 has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T15:41:31 *** kurnevsky2 has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T15:41:41 *** kurnevsky has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2012-06-27T15:44:11 *** kurnevsky1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2012-06-27T15:51:08 *** kurnevsky has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T15:52:21 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T15:53:21 *** kurnevsky2 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2012-06-27T15:55:51 http://vimeo.com/44807536 :D 2012-06-27T15:56:16 *** X-Scale has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T16:06:41 *** kurnevsky has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2012-06-27T16:08:10 *** kurnevsky has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T16:36:19 what a great match 2012-06-27T16:36:31 no it isnt 2012-06-27T16:38:10 antimatroid: i was about to comment on its great music 2012-06-27T16:38:21 when i realized, that its my music player 2012-06-27T16:38:26 and the video still hasnt loaded 2012-06-27T16:39:54 haha 2012-06-27T16:39:58 well i wouldnt trip 2012-06-27T16:40:12 i always step by 2 stairs a time 2012-06-27T16:41:00 "goddamn" 2012-06-27T17:15:37 *** kurnevsky has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2012-06-27T17:30:12 *** jmcarthur has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2012-06-27T17:48:36 *** jmcarthur has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T18:00:32 *** mceier has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2012-06-27T18:26:51 *** Palmik has quit IRC () 2012-06-27T18:30:01 *** epicmonkey has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2012-06-27T18:36:54 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T19:07:37 *** mcstar has quit IRC (Quit: mcstar) 2012-06-27T19:19:05 *** sigh has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-06-27T21:13:29 *** mleise has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2012-06-27T21:47:53 @later tell mcstar your logic is flawed 2012-06-27T21:47:53 antimatroid: I come to serve. 2012-06-27T22:12:48 *** foRei has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2012-06-27T22:22:28 *** nann has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T22:22:48 *** Apophis has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2012-06-27T22:44:02 *** delt0r_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2012-06-27T22:58:01 *** delt0r_ has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T22:58:02 *** thestinger has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2012-06-27T23:04:52 *** CIA-42 has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) 2012-06-27T23:12:53 *** CIA-39 has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T23:43:50 *** foRei has joined #aichallenge 2012-06-27T23:51:05 *** Accoun has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)