2012-09-04T00:44:16 *** contestbot has joined #aichallenge 2012-09-04T00:44:16 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o contestbot 2012-09-04T01:08:04 *** wentam has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-09-04T01:08:37 *** wentam has joined #aichallenge 2012-09-04T01:09:54 *** mceier has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2012-09-04T02:11:31 *** mceier has joined #aichallenge 2012-09-04T02:24:57 *** Areks has joined #aichallenge 2012-09-04T02:25:32 hello all, who write bot on java? 2012-09-04T02:41:23 *** epicmonkey has joined #aichallenge 2012-09-04T02:49:04 *** choas has joined #aichallenge 2012-09-04T03:10:01 *** epicmonkey has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2012-09-04T03:12:53 *** kilae has joined #aichallenge 2012-09-04T03:15:02 *** wentam has joined #aichallenge 2012-09-04T03:22:38 *** wentam has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-09-04T03:23:35 I have some trouble with debugging bot on java. I add debug arguments and set suspend=y, but when i connect nothing happend. I set breakpoint on main method 2012-09-04T03:24:08 can somebody give me any advice? ) 2012-09-04T03:25:31 *** wentam has joined #aichallenge 2012-09-04T03:28:09 *** antimatroidl has joined #aichallenge 2012-09-04T03:50:35 *** choas has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2012-09-04T04:12:43 *** epicmonkey has joined #aichallenge 2012-09-04T04:20:15 *** mcstar has joined #aichallenge 2012-09-04T04:20:32 antimatroidl: hey 2012-09-04T04:20:41 hello 2012-09-04T04:20:51 you were gone yesterday 2012-09-04T04:21:00 i mean, when i finished the stuff 2012-09-04T04:21:05 i think it is working 2012-09-04T04:21:52 antimatroidl: can you give me some complicated diagrams to multiply? 2012-09-04T04:22:02 brb phone 2012-09-04T04:27:52 mcstar: are you wanting to confirm if it's right? 2012-09-04T04:28:02 yes 2012-09-04T04:28:05 count the number of unique diagrams you can generate from the generators 2012-09-04T04:28:18 do you want to know the algorithm for that? 2012-09-04T04:28:33 i think it is going to be too much 2012-09-04T04:28:43 i just want to check if it is probably correct 2012-09-04T04:29:01 i dont want to spend much more time on it :) 2012-09-04T04:29:20 antimatroidl: how complicated is to generate the generators? 2012-09-04T04:29:27 easy 2012-09-04T04:29:51 tell me 2012-09-04T04:30:43 antimatroidl: even if it is wrong, it is quite shorter than the c++ 2012-09-04T04:30:50 and fixable 2012-09-04T04:30:56 (if it wrong) 2012-09-04T04:31:03 http://sketchia.com/draw.html#r4LOUzf 2012-09-04T04:31:10 i know how to make mine better now 2012-09-04T04:31:23 do those fat lines make sense for the generators? 2012-09-04T04:31:38 you have straight lines except two "triapses" above and below each other 2012-09-04T04:31:47 for n points along the top you have n-3 generators 2012-09-04T04:32:24 then to get the dictionary, add the generators as words, and add all new words to a queue, then right multiply each word on the queue by each of the generators and check whether it's a new diagram 2012-09-04T04:32:30 if it's new then add it as a new word 2012-09-04T04:33:41 antimatroidl: ok, so generators of length n only differ in the position the triapse appears? 2012-09-04T04:35:15 yes 2012-09-04T04:35:27 "of length n" is not terminology i would use though 2012-09-04T04:35:33 why? 2012-09-04T04:35:41 i call the semigroup generated by the n-3 generators F_n 2012-09-04T04:35:50 you cant take the product of diagrams of different lenghts 2012-09-04T04:35:54 so they're the generators of F_n 2012-09-04T04:35:58 i kno whtat 2012-09-04T04:36:04 anyway, ill stick to thta 2012-09-04T04:36:08 you will understand 2012-09-04T04:36:12 but i wouldn't say the generators have length n 2012-09-04T04:36:19 no problem 2012-09-04T04:36:22 say they're generators of F_n :) 2012-09-04T04:36:27 of length n 2012-09-04T04:36:50 my friend and i worked out the structure of the lattice of ideals on F_5 today 2012-09-04T04:37:08 we ended up with something being the third row of "pascals pyramid" if you will 2012-09-04T04:37:19 for F_4 it's the second row of pascal's triangle 2012-09-04T04:37:24 i am hoping that generalises 2012-09-04T04:37:35 antimatroidl: ok, so if you index the generators in their natural order(position of the triapse) you only take the product of n,m, m right? 2012-09-04T04:37:54 what? 2012-09-04T04:38:03 i call generators a, b, …, n-2 2012-09-04T04:38:10 you can do any product of them 2012-09-04T04:38:16 finite anyway 2012-09-04T04:38:35 infinite doesn't really matter, it'd have to be a countable product and wouldn't generate anything new 2012-09-04T04:38:42 a x n-2 will be almost the same as n-2 x a 2012-09-04T04:38:52 it will be the same 2012-09-04T04:38:58 thats why im asking 2012-09-04T04:39:00 well, unless n is small enough 2012-09-04T04:39:11 why take those products? 2012-09-04T04:39:19 that will be a relation for the presentation 2012-09-04T04:39:24 if you only take nxm m nah, but for it to be a semigroup you need to have a binary operation on F_n 2012-09-04T04:39:49 you don't want to take out stuff like that 2012-09-04T04:40:00 the relations on the generators for the presentation will note that 2012-09-04T04:40:07 ok, so i have to take the product of 2 full vectors of generators 2012-09-04T04:40:23 no 2012-09-04T04:40:27 (just imagine they form an outer product) 2012-09-04T04:40:37 http://pastebin.com/icv9JsEM 2012-09-04T04:40:37 then what? 2012-09-04T04:40:41 that's my dictionary algorithm 2012-09-04T04:40:50 it is incredible how you dont ever understand what im sayikng 2012-09-04T04:41:34 http://pastebin.com/AqYVF6zD 2012-09-04T04:41:42 that's my dictionary for F_5 2012-09-04T04:42:06 those are all products i did while generating the dictionary, words on the same line are the same diagram 2012-09-04T04:42:56 does that make sense? 2012-09-04T04:43:56 i dont know how do you turn a diagram into a strign 2012-09-04T04:44:07 i do that when i'm making the dictionary 2012-09-04T04:44:22 i note which diagram i am right multipling with and whack that on the end of the string 2012-09-04T04:44:29 *** pairofdice has joined #aichallenge 2012-09-04T04:44:49 so i have a queue of pair if you will 2012-09-04T04:45:03 where string is the first word i found for that diagram 2012-09-04T04:45:17 ok i see 2012-09-04T04:45:20 but why? 2012-09-04T04:45:33 why do you need to turn a diagram into a string? 2012-09-04T04:45:58 a number of reasons 2012-09-04T04:45:58 is it only because you need to add it into a map? 2012-09-04T04:46:01 some examples…. 2012-09-04T04:46:16 lets me know the decomposition of each diagram into generators 2012-09-04T04:46:18 ill just use structural identity 2012-09-04T04:46:42 some of the equivalent forms are not obvious, so i need to work out the relations on generators which cause that (i may even be able to pluck the relations out using these files) 2012-09-04T04:46:52 antimatroidl: but first, really give me 2 diagrams to multiply 2012-09-04T04:47:01 2, which are complicated enough 2012-09-04T04:47:30 draw them, or give them in some textual representation 2012-09-04T04:52:48 mcstar: http://sketchia.com/draw.html#r4LOUzf 2012-09-04T04:53:16 ok, ill try 2012-09-04T04:53:56 antimatroidl: dont write down the product yet! 2012-09-04T04:54:38 well it shouldn't matter? 2012-09-04T04:54:45 you're algorithm is already written 2012-09-04T04:54:50 sorry anyway :P 2012-09-04T04:54:52 you will accuse me of cheating... 2012-09-04T04:54:56 XD 2012-09-04T04:55:36 haha nah 2012-09-04T05:00:20 antimatroidl: yeah, got it 2012-09-04T05:00:25 let me show it 2012-09-04T05:01:38 antimatroidl: http://i.imgur.com/qdqVx.png 2012-09-04T05:02:52 antimatroidl: im a bit reluctant to show you the code, it is ugly 2012-09-04T05:03:08 mcstar: mine was horrendous, it could not be worse 2012-09-04T05:03:15 the show function is bigger than the logic 2012-09-04T05:03:20 in fact the logic is on 3 lines 2012-09-04T05:03:31 http://hpaste.org/74231 2012-09-04T05:03:38 i like your output 2012-09-04T05:03:45 lines 36-38 2012-09-04T05:04:33 what about them? 2012-09-04T05:04:36 i don't understand haskeel 2012-09-04T05:05:23 thats where the product happens 2012-09-04T05:05:39 what are you doing to get the product? intuitively? 2012-09-04T05:05:51 the other stuff in 'product' is just to convert the nice representation into something the algorithm works better 2012-09-04T05:05:58 the other big chunk is the show funciton 2012-09-04T05:06:04 instance Show Diagram... 2012-09-04T05:06:06 *** smiley1983 has joined #aichallenge 2012-09-04T05:06:34 well, im representing the diagram as a list of connected set 2012-09-04T05:06:41 no sorry 2012-09-04T05:06:46 list of disconnected sets 2012-09-04T05:07:00 what's a disconnected set? 2012-09-04T05:07:07 oh disjoint 2012-09-04T05:07:09 yep 2012-09-04T05:07:11 they have empty intersection 2012-09-04T05:07:20 yes, disjoint 2012-09-04T05:07:25 but we are talking about graphs 2012-09-04T05:07:27 yeah they partition the nodes 2012-09-04T05:07:33 they are sets 2012-09-04T05:07:40 they are disjoint sets :P i am a mathematician :P 2012-09-04T05:07:45 ok 2012-09-04T05:07:54 it's fine, i was just confused :P 2012-09-04T05:07:56 disconnected graphs and disjoint sets 2012-09-04T05:08:00 but you can follow 2012-09-04T05:08:20 i tried that but didn't find the product very easy to do 2012-09-04T05:08:47 so, before doing the product, i change the lower level of the first input into a 'middle' kind, and change the upper level of the second input too 2012-09-04T05:09:01 so now, these sets wont be mutually disjoint 2012-09-04T05:09:23 now what i do, is just sort of iteratively union up the sets that have any intersection 2012-09-04T05:09:26 with each other 2012-09-04T05:09:30 yep 2012-09-04T05:09:34 after that, i simply remove the middle kind 2012-09-04T05:09:35 that's what i was originally going to try 2012-09-04T05:09:44 well, it is there.. 2012-09-04T05:09:46 i imagine that's faster than what i currently do 2012-09-04T05:09:49 and was quite easy 2012-09-04T05:09:56 i might try doing it again later 2012-09-04T05:10:18 i have like 10+ different things to play with these things now 2012-09-04T05:10:22 honestly, i did this to try to convince you that haskell might have something it can offer 2012-09-04T05:10:27 which is a good thing thesis progression wise 2012-09-04T05:10:32 hehe :P 2012-09-04T05:10:42 that syntax looks awful to me 2012-09-04T05:11:07 i caould say the same thing about c++ 2012-09-04T05:11:15 i will eventually try and learn haskell again 2012-09-04T05:11:16 still, thats not a reason to not use it 2012-09-04T05:11:18 but not atm 2012-09-04T05:11:21 ok 2012-09-04T05:11:44 i want to get on top of hte phd stuff in the first year and then finish off that game theory paper 2012-09-04T05:11:52 then i can start worrying about other stuff 2012-09-04T05:11:55 my code except the logic part could relly be cleaned up, but that would take time 2012-09-04T05:12:03 over the summer when i don't have tutes to take i'll have more time too 2012-09-04T05:12:18 yeah, why clean if it works is my motto atm 2012-09-04T05:12:22 summer is over, what are you talking about? 2012-09-04T05:12:28 spring just started 2012-09-04T05:12:38 wore shorts the last two days 2012-09-04T05:13:53 antimatroidl: how do you print a diagram now? 2012-09-04T05:14:12 i remember you overloaded << for the diagram, right? 2012-09-04T05:14:26 yeah 2012-09-04T05:14:41 how? 2012-09-04T05:14:42 i made redundant structs just so i could output them with << 2012-09-04T05:14:54 std::ostream& operator<<(std::ostream &os, const Dictionary &dictionary) 2012-09-04T05:14:59 no that 2012-09-04T05:15:01 com eon 2012-09-04T05:15:04 what? 2012-09-04T05:15:12 oh sorry aha 2012-09-04T05:15:14 whats the representation 2012-09-04T05:15:26 just as the disjoint sets 2012-09-04T05:15:29 ie. your list 2012-09-04T05:15:53 i will be changing to what you have 2012-09-04T05:16:04 ah, ok, just a linear representaion 2012-09-04T05:16:38 haskell gives you that by saying 'deriving Show' 2012-09-04T05:16:45 my friend likes sprunge btw 2012-09-04T05:17:00 i am often in a zombie state when talking to you 2012-09-04T05:17:04 hence my lack of understanding 2012-09-04T05:17:08 np 2012-09-04T05:17:15 atm i'm eating, so the same 2012-09-04T05:19:51 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2012-09-04T05:23:21 *** wentam has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-09-04T05:23:57 *** wentam has joined #aichallenge 2012-09-04T05:25:19 *** wentam has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-09-04T05:25:45 *** wentam has joined #aichallenge 2012-09-04T05:30:38 mcstar: what have you completed academia wise? 2012-09-04T05:45:17 I really could have done with a nice AI challenge this year. 2012-09-04T05:45:35 aerique: ants was this year! 2012-09-04T05:47:40 antimatroidl: if you're splitting hairs: yes :-) unfortunately i couldn't compete in it 2012-09-04T05:48:12 i have no time for a contest at the moment 2012-09-04T05:48:18 but would like another one next year 2012-09-04T05:48:26 .... it wasn't 2012-09-04T05:48:44 shit, i'm retarded :P 2012-09-04T05:48:46 perhaps beginning of next year would be a nice target 2012-09-04T05:48:53 pairofdice: you're right 2012-09-04T05:49:00 there is no current plans 2012-09-04T05:49:05 i don't think anybody has time 2012-09-04T05:49:29 i hate the phrase "i don't think" yet i can't break saying it 2012-09-04T05:49:52 i think someone had made some progress with asteroids 2012-09-04T05:50:00 smley 2012-09-04T05:50:03 yeah 2012-09-04T05:50:16 we need to do organisational stuff first though 2012-09-04T05:50:25 last i heard jeff was moving to google and wanted to get involved again 2012-09-04T05:50:35 but i don't think the getting involved again ever happened 2012-09-04T05:50:36 that's good to hear 2012-09-04T05:50:40 unsurprisingly 2012-09-04T05:50:44 it wasn't clear to me what the holdup was 2012-09-04T05:51:27 the contest seemed to be doing more or less fine without all the official stuff 2012-09-04T05:51:34 (except money for the servers ;-) ) 2012-09-04T05:51:48 only because janzert held everything together 2012-09-04T05:51:57 but i could poney up 100 euros and I assume others can as well 2012-09-04T05:52:05 there's the organisational issue 2012-09-04T05:52:11 we can't take donations until that is sorted 2012-09-04T05:52:14 right and before that McLeopold 2012-09-04T05:52:27 no, janzert was holding the fort up long before McLeopold 2012-09-04T05:52:38 okey, didn't know that 2012-09-04T05:52:40 McLeopold was also vital for ants, janzert was vital for planet wars too 2012-09-04T05:53:28 alright, that clears some things up. thanks 2012-09-04T05:53:36 people, can anyone say how to debug bot on java? I tried many variants. ( 2012-09-04T05:53:55 Areks: been too long for me, sorry 2012-09-04T05:54:16 i haven't touched ai code since last year and java in years sorry 2012-09-04T05:54:36 I like this challenge best compared to many others that have propped up since one is not tied to a specific language. 2012-09-04T05:54:47 yeah i haven't been able to get into any other contests 2012-09-04T05:54:51 whereas these are awesome 2012-09-04T05:55:02 i am a big fan of the simple io format 2012-09-04T05:55:07 same here 2012-09-04T05:55:08 something i fought hard to keep with ants 2012-09-04T05:55:41 more experienced programmers prefer some kind of standised format i forget what it's called 2012-09-04T05:55:47 standardised* 2012-09-04T05:56:07 but i like something that's easy to read without using extra packages 2012-09-04T05:56:08 hmm, we standardize on the io specs for every challenge, no? 2012-09-04T05:56:24 nah something which is used across languages quite often 2012-09-04T05:56:29 errr, i wish i could remember the name 2012-09-04T05:56:32 right, xml or json 2012-09-04T05:56:35 json that's it 2012-09-04T05:56:40 i don't want that personally 2012-09-04T05:56:40 the current format is fine 2012-09-04T05:57:08 yeah i like reading input with just a space between stuff 2012-09-04T05:57:11 very easy for me in c++ :P 2012-09-04T05:57:28 with information about how much i'm reading also 2012-09-04T05:57:35 if that's not fixed 2012-09-04T05:57:54 if i have to process brackets/parenthesis i will cry 2012-09-04T05:58:59 i like parens 2012-09-04T05:59:43 * aerique goes back to work 2012-09-04T06:02:27 uh oh what did i miss 2012-09-04T06:03:00 antimatroidl: i think i told you 2012-09-04T06:03:44 antimatroidl: i finished my classes 2 years ago, and finally, since this summer ive been at it, ill finish my thesis 2012-09-04T06:04:21 5 year old education, equivalent to a masters degree 2012-09-04T06:05:39 aerique: am just saying hi, hi! 2012-09-04T06:06:25 i was thinking about continuations, and you came to mind, visited your blog, and it wasnt updated since the last time i checked, that was what i was commenting on 2012-09-04T06:06:32 mcstar: yeah i thought it was something like that but i'm terrible at that kind of thing and my friend asked what you do 2012-09-04T06:06:39 all i could say was physicist concretely :P 2012-09-04T06:07:04 tell him, computational statistical physics 2012-09-04T06:07:16 *** Scooper has joined #aichallenge 2012-09-04T06:07:21 mcstar: what's your thesis on? 2012-09-04T06:07:34 some stupid model 2012-09-04T06:07:47 mcstar: hi :-) 2012-09-04T06:08:12 antimatroidl: http://prl.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v103/i3/e035702 2012-09-04T06:09:03 i know some of those words :P 2012-09-04T06:09:07 aerique: you wrote a game, right? 2012-09-04T06:09:25 a commetcial one? i remember you said you have plans for it 2012-09-04T06:09:39 mcstar: i wish! definitely have plans for it but no time 2012-09-04T06:09:58 oh, i thought that was your next 'gig' 2012-09-04T06:10:03 i definitely remember that word 2012-09-04T06:10:16 ill look stupid if that wasnt you... 2012-09-04T06:10:20 yeah, i had a 3 months 'gig' during the ants challenge 2012-09-04T06:10:40 but it wasn't a game, just an ipad app for a startup 2012-09-04T06:11:04 did it work out? 2012-09-04T06:11:33 i finished the app and had a good time but the startup sorta died a few months later 2012-09-04T06:12:21 i was the 'client' guy and worked together with the server guy. he left the company a few weeks ago 2012-09-04T06:12:26 i guess most of the startups do 2012-09-04T06:12:44 yeah. it was a good experience though 2012-09-04T06:17:23 Areks: you can use printing to stderr, as in any other language 2012-09-04T06:17:38 if you didnt specifically meant a debugger... 2012-09-04T06:17:59 you can tell the engine to pipe stderr to a file, or print to screen 2012-09-04T06:19:53 mcstar: i adjusting debugger in IDE )) it's more comfortably 2012-09-04T06:20:43 you have already done that, or you want to do it? im dont understand 2012-09-04T06:20:56 -m 2012-09-04T06:21:25 I have just did it ) 2012-09-04T06:22:12 ok then 2012-09-04T06:22:13 when i ask i had some trouble 2012-09-04T06:47:38 *** Garf has joined #aichallenge 2012-09-04T07:11:23 *** smiley1983 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2012-09-04T07:13:25 *** smiley1983 has joined #aichallenge 2012-09-04T07:17:56 *** smiley1983 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2012-09-04T07:18:54 *** smiley1983 has joined #aichallenge 2012-09-04T07:48:59 *** CIA-45 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2012-09-04T08:04:55 *** CIA-54 has joined #aichallenge 2012-09-04T08:08:48 *** smiley1983 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2012-09-04T08:09:56 *** smiley1983 has joined #aichallenge 2012-09-04T08:34:52 *** smiley1983 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2012-09-04T08:36:40 *** smiley1983 has joined #aichallenge 2012-09-04T08:46:06 *** sigh has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-09-04T09:02:12 *** wentam has quit IRC 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