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2012-10-20T13:37:24 yes 2012-10-20T13:37:29 that's how you have to switch at first 2012-10-20T13:37:40 and then you remove initscripts and install systemd-sysvcompat to fully switch 2012-10-20T13:37:44 and remove the kernel param 2012-10-20T13:37:53 is there an official recommended deadline for the swithc? 2012-10-20T13:38:15 that deadline has passed :P 2012-10-20T13:38:21 hm 2012-10-20T13:38:30 gnome requires systemd, as does the whole XDG stack 2012-10-20T13:38:30 do you use netcfg? 2012-10-20T13:38:33 yes 2012-10-20T13:38:52 there's no $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR on arch without systemd, so it doesn't even follow the basedir spec 2012-10-20T13:39:01 i think ill need to set up a bridge interface with that 2012-10-20T13:39:02 and it doesn't mount all the API filesystems 2012-10-20T13:39:09 it was easy with the previous config 2012-10-20T13:39:17 netcfg is the best :P 2012-10-20T13:39:26 <3 net-auto-wired/wireless 2012-10-20T13:40:13 hibernation doesnt work for me, since a couple of days 2012-10-20T13:40:41 well, ill try to do the switch 2012-10-20T13:41:19 one thing i liked about arch, when i joined is the sysv style init framework 2012-10-20T13:41:34 maybe i should consider some simpler distro 2012-10-20T13:41:58 or i should give win7 a try, maybe it is much better than xp 2012-10-20T13:46:58 lets see 2012-10-20T13:47:00 *** mcstar has quit IRC (Quit: mcstar) 2012-10-20T13:52:44 *** mcstar has joined #aichallenge 2012-10-20T13:53:10 thestinger: well, X doesnt start by default 2012-10-20T13:53:20 and it is on terminal 2 2012-10-20T13:53:28 not >=7 2012-10-20T13:53:38 it never does 2012-10-20T13:53:44 whether or not you use systemd 2012-10-20T13:53:47 you have to configure that 2012-10-20T13:53:57 it was configured to 2012-10-20T13:54:01 where? 2012-10-20T13:54:05 it just doesnt pick it up 2012-10-20T13:54:09 where is it configured? 2012-10-20T13:54:10 in the inittab 2012-10-20T13:54:14 inittab is for sysvinit 2012-10-20T13:54:21 so? 2012-10-20T13:54:26 it doesnt care for it 2012-10-20T13:54:26 systemd is not sysvinit 2012-10-20T13:54:35 because inittab is for sysvinit 2012-10-20T13:54:38 but theres compatibility to run my old daemons 2012-10-20T13:54:43 mcstar: not in systemd 2012-10-20T13:54:45 in initscripts 2012-10-20T13:54:50 and it should be removed 2012-10-20T13:54:52 it's a bad thing 2012-10-20T13:54:59 what is bad? 2012-10-20T13:55:08 because all those daemons have systemd units 2012-10-20T13:55:11 you simply have to enable them 2012-10-20T13:55:13 it's not hard 2012-10-20T13:55:25 im certain the one that matters, doesnt have 2012-10-20T13:55:29 and it handles dependencies (on sockets, files, mount points, services) 2012-10-20T13:55:33 mcstar: which? 2012-10-20T13:55:40 my nopark deamon 2012-10-20T13:55:54 nopark? 2012-10-20T13:55:55 that writes to my disk in every 5 minutes to keep it from going to sleep :) 2012-10-20T13:56:07 why not just turn off the disk idle? 2012-10-20T13:56:14 cant do that 2012-10-20T13:56:27 ok so make it a unit file 2012-10-20T13:56:31 or better, use a timer unit 2012-10-20T13:56:36 whats that? 2012-10-20T13:56:49 mcstar: see this is why the initscripts compatibility code is bad 2012-10-20T13:56:56 you're using a broken compatibility layer 2012-10-20T13:57:03 and haven't learned the sane way of doing things 2012-10-20T13:57:04 am i? 2012-10-20T13:57:12 what do you mean? 2012-10-20T13:57:18 it was the sane way when i did it 2012-10-20T13:57:29 it was never sane 2012-10-20T13:57:33 im not reponsible that these devs swtich stuff behind my back 2012-10-20T13:57:44 it never handled dependencies and always had race conditions 2012-10-20T13:57:51 it can't even wait until the display driver is initialized before starting X 2012-10-20T13:57:57 the only reason it works is because it's so fucking slow 2012-10-20T13:58:11 and if a single thing hangs, the whole boot process breaks 2012-10-20T13:58:13 yay 2012-10-20T13:58:20 it has no way to log the stderr of services 2012-10-20T13:58:32 no way to reliably kill or monitor a service (because you need to use cgroups) 2012-10-20T13:58:55 mcstar: they didn't do it behind anyone's back 2012-10-20T13:59:07 the systemd change has been very gradual and very public 2012-10-20T13:59:20 it didnt reach me 2012-10-20T13:59:51 just systemctl enable your daemons 2012-10-20T13:59:57 turn your script into a unit 2012-10-20T14:00:40 mcstar: look at /usr/lib/systemd/system/gpm.service for example 2012-10-20T14:01:11 anyway you just need [Unit] with the description, [Service] with ExecStart (Type=simple is the default, which assumes it doesn't fork) and the [Install] to put it under a target 2012-10-20T14:01:50 put it in /etc/systemd/system with a name like nopark.service and then do 'systemctl enable nopark.service' 2012-10-20T14:02:06 and systemctl enable the other services you want too 2012-10-20T14:02:28 sure, ill copy-paste something together 2012-10-20T14:02:38 it just needs 3 lines :P 2012-10-20T14:02:50 anyway, whats more important, how do i start kdm? 2012-10-20T14:02:57 systemctl enable kdm.service 2012-10-20T14:03:00 and it will start on boot 2012-10-20T14:03:04 systemctl start kdm 2012-10-20T14:03:07 to start it immediately 2012-10-20T14:03:09 ok, so there are no runlevels anymore 2012-10-20T14:03:16 there are targets instead of runlevels 2012-10-20T14:03:25 like graphical.target 2012-10-20T14:03:36 so thats a meta-service? 2012-10-20T14:03:43 kind of, yes 2012-10-20T14:04:01 they are like hooks 2012-10-20T14:04:02 thestinger: is this service manager the same that powers ubuntu? 2012-10-20T14:04:05 no 2012-10-20T14:04:10 fedora and soon RHEL 2012-10-20T14:04:23 what is ubuntu's 'service' then? 2012-10-20T14:04:27 upstart, and it's crap 2012-10-20T14:04:28 their own framework? 2012-10-20T14:04:30 yes 2012-10-20T14:04:50 systemd is based on launchd, and uses socket activation and events 2012-10-20T14:05:08 and properly monitors services :P 2012-10-20T14:05:32 journalctl _SYSTEMD_UNIT=kdm.service (will show all logs from kdm, and stderr output - including from all subprocesses it spawns) 2012-10-20T14:05:36 something failed when i started the system 2012-10-20T14:05:50 it had sockets in it.. 2012-10-20T14:05:50 look at journalctl 2012-10-20T14:06:02 mcstar: you will get a warning about syslog.socket by default 2012-10-20T14:06:06 it's not a problem, just info 2012-10-20T14:06:20 Failed to listen on Syslog Socket. 2012-10-20T14:06:22 arch leaves ForwardToSyslog on by default but doesn't run syslog (since it's useless) 2012-10-20T14:06:24 mcstar: it's fine 2012-10-20T14:06:44 just edit /etc/systemd/journald.conf and set ForwardToSyslog=no 2012-10-20T14:07:13 thestinger: ok, are all the /var/logs useless now? 2012-10-20T14:07:24 mcstar: well the journal is in /var/log/journal 2012-10-20T14:07:38 btmp, faillog, lastlog, wtmp are still used 2012-10-20T14:07:54 pacman will still log to a file by default (but you can set UseSyslog and set the log file to /dev/null) 2012-10-20T14:08:01 other logs are useless 2012-10-20T14:08:31 where do the kernel messages go? 2012-10-20T14:08:43 well dmesg, but then forwarded to the journal 2012-10-20T14:09:10 i dont have a /var/log/journal file 2012-10-20T14:09:14 mcstar: directory 2012-10-20T14:09:25 that either 2012-10-20T14:09:29 mcstar: do you have v194 of systemd? 2012-10-20T14:09:31 or neither 2012-10-20T14:09:37 before 194 you have to mkdir /var/log/journal for persistent logs 2012-10-20T14:09:39 whats that? 2012-10-20T14:09:44 pacman -Qi systemd 2012-10-20T14:09:46 oh, version 2012-10-20T14:10:18 well or you can set it from Storage = auto to persistent 2012-10-20T14:10:28 otherwise it just keeps per-boot logs 2012-10-20T14:10:31 194-1 2012-10-20T14:10:45 mcstar: should have a /var/log/journal/ dir then 2012-10-20T14:11:01 well, i dont have it :) 2012-10-20T14:11:12 oh, 194-4 2012-10-20T14:11:18 mcstar: forgot about pkgrel 2012-10-20T14:11:47 arch removed syslog from base and added the dir to the package 2012-10-20T14:11:58 anyway just mkdir it if you don't feel like updating 2012-10-20T14:12:11 i will 2012-10-20T14:12:14 update 2012-10-20T14:12:31 * thestinger really likes structured logs :P 2012-10-20T14:13:08 how does that look? 2012-10-20T14:13:15 not plaintext? 2012-10-20T14:13:18 mcstar: well that's what journald provides 2012-10-20T14:13:23 i get it 2012-10-20T14:13:25 it stores metadata + message in a db 2012-10-20T14:13:26 *** moises has joined #aichallenge 2012-10-20T14:13:28 but what is different? 2012-10-20T14:13:43 you can query it by pid, gid, service, cgroup, binary, command, etc. 2012-10-20T14:13:47 so you cant just look at it 2012-10-20T14:13:51 you can 2012-10-20T14:14:03 you can even grep it directly if you look for the MESSAGE= blocks :P 2012-10-20T14:14:18 anyway `journalctl' is just like everything.log by itself 2012-10-20T14:15:15 *** mcstar has quit IRC (Quit: mcstar) 2012-10-20T14:17:56 *** mcstar has joined #aichallenge 2012-10-20T14:18:11 thestinger: that syslog message is still there 2012-10-20T14:18:24 mcstar: did you set ForwardToSyslog=no ? 2012-10-20T14:18:27 anyway, im gonna update, and look for a way to make hibernation work 2012-10-20T14:18:29 *** jacob_strauss has joined #aichallenge 2012-10-20T14:18:30 yes ofc 2012-10-20T14:18:41 * thestinger shrugs 2012-10-20T14:18:44 it doesn't appear for me :P 2012-10-20T14:19:11 thestinger: thanks 2012-10-20T14:19:22 *** jacob_strauss has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2012-10-20T14:27:17 thestinger: do you watch Penn and Teller? 2012-10-20T14:27:25 not really 2012-10-20T14:27:52 they are not bad :) 2012-10-20T14:29:42 *** epicmonkey has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-10-20T14:29:58 *** epicmonkey has joined #aichallenge 2012-10-20T14:30:06 *** dici has joined #aichallenge 2012-10-20T14:30:10 *** epicmonkey has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-10-20T14:30:38 *** epicmonkey has joined #aichallenge 2012-10-20T14:32:04 *** epicmonkey has joined #aichallenge 2012-10-20T15:34:02 *** Accoun has quit IRC () 2012-10-20T15:35:41 *** smjm has joined #aichallenge 2012-10-20T15:35:42 *** smjm has joined #aichallenge 2012-10-20T15:59:42 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2012-10-20T16:19:32 *** pairofdice has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2012-10-20T16:39:37 *** amstan_ has joined #aichallenge 2012-10-20T16:39:38 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan_ 2012-10-20T16:43:48 *** epicmonkey has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2012-10-20T16:50:59 *** mcstar has quit IRC (Quit: mcstar) 2012-10-20T17:03:34 *** thestinger has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9) 2012-10-20T17:39:08 *** Accoun has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-10-20T17:42:33 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2012-10-20T17:49:29 *** dici has quit IRC (Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )) 2012-10-20T18:27:16 *** Eibwen has joined #aichallenge 2012-10-20T19:26:05 *** Garf has quit IRC (Quit: Make a new plan, Stan!) 2012-10-20T19:28:39 *** Apophis has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2012-10-20T19:29:05 *** Apophis has joined #aichallenge 2012-10-20T19:46:57 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2012-10-20T20:00:21 *** Scooper has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2012-10-20T20:20:16 *** what has joined #aichallenge 2012-10-20T20:20:27 anyone here? 2012-10-20T20:20:47 *** what has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2012-10-20T20:34:21 *** thestinger has joined #aichallenge 2012-10-20T20:39:13 *** foRei has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2012-10-20T20:51:50 *** Hjax has joined #aichallenge 2012-10-20T20:52:14 interesting how many people are here even when the forums seem dead XD 2012-10-20T20:56:45 any plans for the next contest yet? 2012-10-20T22:02:26 *** thestinger has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9) 2012-10-20T22:10:44 *** iroiro has joined #aichallenge 2012-10-20T22:11:19 hello! is there an ai challenge this year? (2012) 2012-10-20T22:11:30 after last year, i'm really excited to build something! 2012-10-20T22:11:44 i dont know 2012-10-20T22:18:07 anybody do know? 2012-10-20T22:34:10 *** iroiro has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2012-10-20T23:08:51 *** Hjax has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) 2012-10-20T23:21:44 *** mleise has joined #aichallenge