2012-11-01T00:12:52 *** _flag <_flag!~flag@69-165-173-172.dsl.teksavvy.com> has quit IRC (Quit: Lost terminal) 2012-11-01T02:20:47 *** antimatroidl has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2012-11-01T02:20:50 *** antimatroidl1 has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T02:41:00 *** smiley1983 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2012-11-01T02:42:48 *** smiley1983 has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T02:52:33 *** smiley1983 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2012-11-01T02:54:08 *** smiley1983 has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T03:00:02 *** Accoun has quit IRC () 2012-11-01T03:11:27 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T03:18:44 *** foRei has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2012-11-01T03:37:30 *** pairofdice has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T03:37:47 *** epicmonkey has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T03:39:39 *** thestinger has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9) 2012-11-01T04:14:02 *** amstan_ has quit IRC (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2012-11-01T04:27:01 *** smiley1983 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2012-11-01T04:27:46 *** smiley1983 has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T04:28:24 *** epicmonkey has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2012-11-01T04:50:14 *** antimatroidl1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2012-11-01T04:56:35 *** antimatroidl has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T05:07:50 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T05:34:31 *** epicmonkey has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T05:51:45 *** dici has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T07:05:41 *** smiley1983 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2012-11-01T07:06:34 *** smiley1983 has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T07:21:42 *** bqf has quit IRC (Changing host) 2012-11-01T07:21:42 *** bqf has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T07:59:05 *** antimatroidl has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2012-11-01T07:59:27 *** antimatroidl has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T08:37:01 *** UncleVasya has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T08:39:01 *** Scooper has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T08:43:23 *** ramn[work] has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T08:44:37 hi 2012-11-01T08:45:13 hi 2012-11-01T08:45:49 is there still an active community around this game (ant bots)? 2012-11-01T08:48:00 ramn[work]: we are here, but I doubt you can call use active because we aren't doing something. 2012-11-01T08:49:15 ok! just wondering if there still are new people discovering this game 2012-11-01T08:49:36 me and a few friends started building our bots long after the competition finished, just for fun 2012-11-01T08:50:24 No one here can organize next challenge. But when some Organizator will come I believe there will be a lot of people to develop challenge. 2012-11-01T08:50:47 ramn[work]: I am currently trying to see if there's any interest in competition over TCP: http://forums.aichallenge.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=3634 2012-11-01T08:51:19 smiley1983: yes that would be interesting! 2012-11-01T08:51:56 If enough interest is shown in a fairly short space of time, I will host a server 2012-11-01T08:52:16 enough >= 4 people? 2012-11-01T08:52:20 If you post a "+1" to indicate interest in the thread, it might encourage others to do the same :) 2012-11-01T08:52:50 smiley1983: what it requres from you to host a server? just efforts or money too? 2012-11-01T08:52:56 yea I'll register on the forum later! 2012-11-01T08:53:11 Hm, I'd be happier if it were more, but if there were four active people who really wanted it, that might be enough to justify it 2012-11-01T08:53:12 if tcp, not much of a server would be required? 2012-11-01T08:53:55 *** Wren[Jobbmacen] has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T08:54:00 I would be interested in Ants 2012-11-01T08:54:12 One linode server is plenty; it's good to have a decent machine behind it, but unlike the central servers, you don't need dozens of them to get a good game rate 2012-11-01T08:54:17 and for that, there already exists tcp service bindings right? 2012-11-01T08:54:36 perhaps could be run on Heroku free package 2012-11-01T08:54:58 Yes, unmodified bots can be run against the existing TCP code 2012-11-01T08:55:32 +1 2012-11-01T08:56:00 I didn't know about Heroku, but if they offer a free Debian server, that would most likely do the job 2012-11-01T08:56:35 they have app hosting, you don't ssh on there but rather deploy an app 2012-11-01T08:56:45 https://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/python 2012-11-01T08:57:03 basically, point a git repo to their server and push, and it's running 2012-11-01T08:57:23 As for hosting requirements: maintenance is pretty minimal; when I hosted one before, it was just the $20/month and lack of use which caused me to close it down 2012-11-01T08:57:35 ok 2012-11-01T08:58:12 perhaps different leagues? one for beginners and one for experienced just honing their bots? 2012-11-01T08:58:13 Heroku looks interesting, though; both as a potential server host, and also a means for people to run bots against an established server 2012-11-01T08:58:38 yes! 2012-11-01T08:58:48 then the latency would be equal among all players aswell 2012-11-01T08:58:53 more fair 2012-11-01T08:59:06 Yes, it's easy enough to set up separate ports for beginner, intermediate and expert servers on the one virtual host 2012-11-01T08:59:47 There's no way to guarantee complete fairness over TCP (some people can run on their 8-core home machine) but there are ways to minimize time-cheating, at least 2012-11-01T09:00:04 perhaps the ants-tcp git project could be augmented with the minimal needed config to get it running on heroku 2012-11-01T09:00:49 I might look into that in the coming days, if someone else doesn't do so first 2012-11-01T09:00:53 beefing up the machine compensates for slower programming language :) 2012-11-01T09:01:14 Right now I'm trying to get a Tron game engine running :) 2012-11-01T09:01:14 I'll help out, I'll try to be on here 2012-11-01T09:01:18 ah! 2012-11-01T09:01:26 is the next game announced? 2012-11-01T09:01:54 My understanding is that the official organizers are not planning any more contests 2012-11-01T09:02:07 which is why I'm looking into unofficial TCP servers 2012-11-01T09:02:11 w00t 2012-11-01T09:02:21 there were talk about a contest for this autumn, right? 2012-11-01T09:02:36 smiley1983: I have almost every version of my bot from oldest to newest. So we can start with weak one for newcomers to beat and then one by one launch more powerful versions. Or you have all your version too? 2012-11-01T09:02:48 Yes, plenty of talk :) Mostly from users, though. 2012-11-01T09:03:13 ok, 2012-11-01T09:03:16 UncleVasya: I have the git repository, and also every version I submitted through the contest 2012-11-01T09:03:23 well the ants game is plenty for me to work on :) 2012-11-01T09:03:49 I think it's really good 2012-11-01T09:04:00 Yes, the Ants game was awesome 2012-11-01T09:04:08 Almost as good as PlanetWars :) 2012-11-01T09:04:22 smiley1983: + for PW) 2012-11-01T09:04:33 oh is there a better one?! 2012-11-01T09:04:49 good then I have something to do when I'm done with ants.. 2012-11-01T09:04:57 UncleVasya: I'm very keen to do more work on PW, but I want to look into Tron first, myself 2012-11-01T09:05:02 why do you consider PW better? 2012-11-01T09:05:25 smiley1983: I think I'll have a time to rewrite PW engine for your needs. Is it too late? 2012-11-01T09:05:36 PlanetWars was based on Galcon: http://planetwars.aichallenge.org/ 2012-11-01T09:05:53 UncleVasya: I haven't started, and indeed, it needs rewriting 2012-11-01T09:06:37 *I'll have a time in January. 2012-11-01T09:07:00 ramn[work]: PlanetWars had a better balance of tasks for the programmer, I think; the entry level was much lower, and almost all of the effort was focused on the real substance of the problem 2012-11-01T09:07:10 by too late I meant January :) 2012-11-01T09:07:50 *** mleise has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T09:08:22 Ants has lots of great challenges to engage with, but the entry level is higher, and more time needs to be spent on "bootstrapping" the bot: giving it the basic pathfinding logic to begin engaging with the real task 2012-11-01T09:09:08 ok I see 2012-11-01T09:09:23 UncleVasya: we'll see what happens between now and then, but I'd be pretty surprised if someone had written it before then 2012-11-01T09:09:37 so far I enjoy the bootstrapping though, but yes I can see it will take more time to complete 2012-11-01T09:10:09 Ants is awesome, I don't mean to put it down: it's just that PW was even better. :) 2012-11-01T09:10:16 In my opinion 2012-11-01T09:11:28 I prefer PlanetWars over Ants too. And yes, Ants is a cool challenge too. 2012-11-01T09:11:32 amazing that people build these things 2012-11-01T09:13:08 smiley1983: when you lurked about android dev you thought about java or about ocaml? 2012-11-01T09:13:24 haha, both 2012-11-01T09:13:42 but I decided that the various ocaml-on-java options were probably not worth the hassle 2012-11-01T09:14:00 for the projects I had in mind at the time 2012-11-01T09:14:39 smiley1983: also I wanna ask an advice. 2012-11-01T09:14:45 anyone here doing scala? 2012-11-01T09:14:59 Now, I want to get a real Linux running on those phone devices, ditch the Android layer altogether 2012-11-01T09:15:04 UncleVasya: advice? 2012-11-01T09:16:52 Card game you saw. To make it playable for people I have few options: win32/linux app, android/iphone app, web-page with game. I decided third way is the easiest one. So this is ocsigen? 2012-11-01T09:17:19 I just did some investigating of ocsigen the other day 2012-11-01T09:17:50 However, my preference was leaning toward ocamlnet by the end of my research 2012-11-01T09:18:01 I hope to build something like html5cards.org (but for one game yet). 2012-11-01T09:18:53 But I'm not sure, maybe ocigen is too muh for this. 2012-11-01T09:20:35 Ocsigen seems to offer lots of neat stuff, but I don't trust the way it replaces the ocaml toplevel, rather than acting as a library 2012-11-01T09:21:07 Seems like an approach which is prone to breaking unless the developers are very active 2012-11-01T09:21:59 Ocamlnet looks much more like my sort of system - huge library of useful net functions, callable from the main language 2012-11-01T09:22:57 I'll be doing some more reading before considering proceeding with that project on either system, though 2012-11-01T09:23:03 is it possible to build such game web-page with ocamlnet? 2012-11-01T09:24:00 I think I can safely say "yes", but I haven't really looked into it enough to know what's involved 2012-11-01T09:24:05 also there is new ohm library 2012-11-01T09:24:18 I haven't heard of ohm, will go and look it up 2012-11-01T09:24:27 ah, and most important question: 2012-11-01T09:25:34 *** antimatroidl has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2012-11-01T09:28:11 from the point of efforts will it requre more to make it up and running as a ocaml based web-page then just rewrite ocaml logic into javascript? 2012-11-01T09:29:50 eh, this is a bad question 2012-11-01T09:29:59 you cannot know the answer 2012-11-01T09:30:08 It's a good question, but indeed I cannot know :) 2012-11-01T09:30:48 One of the interesting things about Ocsigen is the ocaml-to-js compiler, which can be used independantly 2012-11-01T09:32:06 Truth is that Ocsigen might do the job really well, and really easily; however, when I tried to go through one of the tutorials, it was the ocaml-to-js compiler which failed on Debian, and I couldn't be bothered fighting with it at that time. 2012-11-01T09:33:19 I was thinking of using Ocsigen/Ocamlnet partly to write an AI challenge contest server :) 2012-11-01T09:35:07 Javascript is a surprisingly nice, uncluttered language: nothing at all like Java. 2012-11-01T09:36:14 *** Wren[Jobbmacen] has quit IRC (Quit: Wren[Jobbmacen]) 2012-11-01T09:36:50 is there a reason to write ocaml-aichallenge except pleasure? 2012-11-01T09:38:10 none other required ;) 2012-11-01T09:38:20 hmm... probably not. Mostly for interest. Partly because I haven't yet worked out how to get Zeta running on a local machibe without AWS access 2012-11-01T09:38:52 smiley1983: I posted on the forum but someone has to approve the message? 2012-11-01T09:38:58 I mean it is no doubt an interesting project to write on favourite language but I think aichallenge community gives much to it and with ocaml they will have no possibility to do it. 2012-11-01T09:40:13 UncleVasya: you are absolutely right. The correct path is to get Zeta (or Epsilon) into a workable state: I was just thinking about ocaml because my mind always likes to explore that possibility 2012-11-01T09:40:20 arghhh. why i'm so lazy and not bother to take some English cources?! :D 2012-11-01T09:41:06 *** UncleVasya is now known as SorryForMyEnglis 2012-11-01T09:41:20 SorryForMyEnglis: You can communicate your ideas well: if you have difficulty following something I say, I can rephrase 2012-11-01T09:42:04 no, I have no difficulty in understanding most of the text. 2012-11-01T09:42:31 *** SorryForMyEnglis is now known as UncleVasya 2012-11-01T09:42:34 ramn[work]: hmm, if it requires an admin, it might take a while before one drops by 2012-11-01T09:44:16 ok so the forum is not accessible to new users then :/ 2012-11-01T09:44:33 then it is not such a great platform to organize new stuff on 2012-11-01T09:44:51 Zannick: if you get a moment, there's a new post waiting for approval in the forum 2012-11-01T09:45:01 janzert: ^^ 2012-11-01T09:45:33 smiley1983: Does TCP-server can be powered without giving a whole machine to it? I'm curious is it possible to setup in on the one's home computer in background. 2012-11-01T09:45:49 ramn[work]: I don't really know how often they check the forum, but I think some of them are checking in here semi-regularly 2012-11-01T09:46:13 UncleVasya: why not? 2012-11-01T09:46:28 smiley1983: You have your own mod-friend, wait a sec ^^ 2012-11-01T09:47:16 *** shalmezad has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T09:48:09 *** coeus has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T09:48:13 *** shalmezad has left #aichallenge 2012-11-01T09:48:15 UncleVasya: it doesn't need the whole machine, though it will consume a fair bit of processing power and bandwidth when being used heavily 2012-11-01T09:48:36 You could run it in a virtual machine to limit its use of resources 2012-11-01T09:49:09 What if we could write a script that manages tcp-servers? 2012-11-01T09:49:21 *** Wren[Jobbmacen] has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T09:49:23 Mostly I don't consider running it from my own machine because my internet connection drops out all the time, and it would be very unreliable 2012-11-01T09:50:08 For example several people launch tcp-servers in background. 2012-11-01T09:50:38 and some Manager script decides wich servers are availible at the moment. 2012-11-01T09:51:20 And it cares about not to overhead peoples computers with work. 2012-11-01T09:51:40 I'm sure it could be done; I probably won't be the one to do it, though 2012-11-01T09:52:12 I'm also interested in the possibility of direct peer-to-peer games, with no server in between 2012-11-01T09:52:41 *** antimatroidl has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T09:52:54 That's something I might be motivated to put some coding effort into 2012-11-01T09:54:09 one on one? 2012-11-01T09:54:16 I've approved forum posts. Ping me next time you'll write something guys :) 2012-11-01T09:54:18 or, finding a group of peers? 2012-11-01T09:54:46 UncleVasya: thanks! 2012-11-01T09:54:48 Both should be possible, 2-player and n-player p2p games 2012-11-01T09:54:54 Also I think the huge flow of spam is over and we're ready to cancel premoderation. 2012-11-01T09:55:09 UncleVasya: great to hear that you can approve their posts there, thanks :) 2012-11-01T09:59:23 *** thestinger has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T10:07:11 smiley1983: what would be the discovery mechanism? 2012-11-01T10:10:06 ramn[work]: yes, that would require either a central server, or sharing of IP addresses via the forum (both present security concerns, so maybe the central TCP servers are just better) 2012-11-01T10:10:35 *** binw has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T10:11:32 maybe setting up that central server could be so streamlined, you could do it on demand with a command 2012-11-01T10:11:52 Also someone could make a page on main site with common servers. 2012-11-01T10:12:12 And this page can be parsed by tcp-clients 2012-11-01T10:13:49 Setting up the tcp server is currently very easy; install php and a couple of other things, perhaps, then run two python scripts. Automating that as a tarball and script to deploy on new servers would be very easy 2012-11-01T10:14:22 seems good enough! 2012-11-01T10:15:21 it would be really great if people can run server for the time they can and not afraid to turn it off when they need. 2012-11-01T10:16:40 In this case I hope I'll be able even to convince a friend to launch it on his machine when he's at home :) 2012-11-01T10:16:45 Maybe the servers can try to finish running games before they shut down, by catching the Windows shutdown or Posix kill signal 2012-11-01T10:16:49 if it can run on Heroku Free package (one dyno), then you can just leave it 2012-11-01T10:17:25 and since it is so nicely integrated with git, 2012-11-01T10:17:45 if you have your bot in a git repo you can just push it to heroku and it will be deployed, and connect to some server and start running 2012-11-01T10:17:57 they can't catch Reset button anyway :D 2012-11-01T10:18:48 UncleVasya: I don't have a reset button any more. Only the hold-power-button-for-4-seconds thing 2012-11-01T10:18:56 I think Heroku might be the easiest solution both to running the tournament server and running individual bots 2012-11-01T10:20:41 ramn[work]: I never heard of that. It sounds interesting. Also host1free gives away some free VPS. They are sometimes shut down without warning, but you practically get an IP and root access. 2012-11-01T10:21:13 mleise: on Heroku you don't get ssh access 2012-11-01T10:21:29 you just push your python/ruby/java/.. app with git 2012-11-01T10:21:37 and it will be redeployed on each git push 2012-11-01T10:21:45 Can you keep the code private? 2012-11-01T10:21:49 it supports a number of programming languages 2012-11-01T10:21:51 yes 2012-11-01T10:22:05 well some sysadmin on Heroku might be able to peek.. 2012-11-01T10:22:12 noone else 2012-11-01T10:23:17 What about specifying which file to run? Can you tell it to run a bash script which launches two Python programs, or would it be necessary to create a singly Python entry point? 2012-11-01T10:23:19 heroku would be a very expensive way to run the tournament and last I saw doesn't support all the languages that we have in the past, but is pretty cool for general web app hosting 2012-11-01T10:23:53 they also run on top of amazon infrastructure 2012-11-01T10:23:53 smiley1983: yes you have a config file pointing out a 'main method' of your app 2012-11-01T10:24:07 janzert: or free 2012-11-01T10:24:41 janzert: I'm talking small scale tournament 2012-11-01T10:24:51 we were thinking about people using it to run bots against TCP servers, or to run the TCP servers themselves 2012-11-01T10:24:56 ahh 2012-11-01T10:25:04 Nothing like the scale of the real contest servers :) 2012-11-01T10:25:11 wow, janzert, our superhero, hi! 2012-11-01T10:25:18 hehe 2012-11-01T10:25:20 * janzert waves 2012-11-01T10:25:36 smiley1983: I think you can only run one process per heroku instance, tho you could easily set up two (free) ones 2012-11-01T10:26:01 smiley1983: someone already get that post? I don't see anything in the queue 2012-11-01T10:26:24 janzert: my post? Yes fixed 2012-11-01T10:26:24 janzert: sorry, I didn't realize UncleVasya could approve the posts 2012-11-01T10:26:32 *** sigh has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-11-01T10:26:39 so I pinged you mistakenly 2012-11-01T10:26:41 great 2012-11-01T10:26:55 janzert: btw whom I have to contact to ask about canceling premoderation on forums? It seems there is no much spam now. 2012-11-01T10:27:14 I think Zannick has been taking care of that 2012-11-01T10:27:22 Is my understanding correct, that the organizers are disbanded and we should not wait for more official contests? 2012-11-01T10:27:23 either him or amstan 2012-11-01T10:27:45 ok, ty 2012-11-01T10:27:50 Or did I get the wrong impression? 2012-11-01T10:28:07 I think amazon EC2 or Google Compute engine is easier for running games 2012-11-01T10:28:18 right now j3camero is the one that needs to move things forward and so far as I know he is dormant ;) 2012-11-01T10:28:50 There was a post on the forum claiming to relay something from amstan which sounded more final, I'll go find it... 2012-11-01T10:28:55 if nothing happens by year end I'll reevaluate what I can do personally and talk to him about it 2012-11-01T10:29:08 Maybe it's also not a bad idea to just create our own new site, and setting up our own game 2012-11-01T10:29:42 http://forums.aichallenge.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=3632#p16240 2012-11-01T10:29:44 I could also help develop the system 2012-11-01T10:30:04 not from amstan, doesn't actually name the organizer 2012-11-01T10:30:44 In the meantime til next game, I believe we should make the current games more accessible 2012-11-01T10:30:46 it sounds likely to have been amstan though 2012-11-01T10:30:50 a community with tournaments 2012-11-01T10:30:59 janzert: if you want to run it, I think you should just talk to amstan 2012-11-01T10:31:00 the old games are still great 2012-11-01T10:31:13 true 2012-11-01T10:31:14 janzert: I'm pretty sure he said the problem is just that no one has stepped up to do it 2012-11-01T10:31:28 and I guess he doesn't have the time atm 2012-11-01T10:31:55 thestinger: j3camero is the one that needs to give up ownership not amstan though 2012-11-01T10:31:59 oh 2012-11-01T10:32:17 If I run a tcp server in the short term, I'll hold back from running Asteroids, though, or any of the other proposals for new contests 2012-11-01T10:33:12 If there's any chance of running them officially, I'd rather not cause a repeat of the long beta testing period :) 2012-11-01T10:35:48 I gotta run, but at least from me trying to do anything with the contest officially it'll probably be end of this year beginning of next before I even think about trying to get something going. 2012-11-01T10:56:28 *** thestinger has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2012-11-01T10:56:46 *** thestinger has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T11:05:00 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T11:05:00 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2012-11-01T11:12:21 hi. can we cancel premoderation on forums? because spam flow isn't as huge as was and also there is some activity from real users. 2012-11-01T11:12:38 amstan: hi, it was for you :) 2012-11-01T11:13:21 premoderation? 2012-11-01T11:14:16 amstan: yes, currently users must wait for our approval before messages show up. 2012-11-01T11:14:35 it was set by Zannick if I remember correctly. 2012-11-01T11:15:10 UncleVasya: spam flow isn't as huge because of that 2012-11-01T11:15:18 theres's 4 spammers per day being registered 2012-11-01T11:16:27 ok, thank you for the response 2012-11-01T11:17:41 how do they get by the impossibly hard spam filter? :) 2012-11-01T11:18:12 ramn[work]: what? 2012-11-01T11:18:32 This error message makes me very happy: http://pastebin.com/W9hE1VLd 2012-11-01T11:18:52 The bots crashed, not my Tron game engine :) 2012-11-01T11:19:19 Of course, I'm sure it will crash when the bots try to do something, but this is the next step :) 2012-11-01T11:19:23 amstan: there is a spamfilter for registering on the forum 2012-11-01T11:19:39 ramn[work]: yes, the captcha 2012-11-01T11:19:43 that's easy to get around though 2012-11-01T11:19:50 amstan: it's about getting the english grammar right 2012-11-01T11:19:51 just pay people really little to solve them 2012-11-01T11:20:39 make them find new primes 2012-11-01T11:57:37 *** Wren[Jobbmacen] has quit IRC (Quit: Wren[Jobbmacen]) 2012-11-01T12:00:22 *** Wren[Jobbmacen] has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T12:10:30 hmm, I thought after people posted one good message on the forums their further posts no longer went through moderation? 2012-11-01T12:12:01 must be 5 but Smiley has much more 2012-11-01T12:12:25 so this function must be broken 2012-11-01T12:13:27 Zannick: maybe you can take a look at that ^^ when you get a chance 2012-11-01T12:14:41 UncleVasya: I don't think my posts need moderating, do they? They seem to appear immediately. 2012-11-01T12:15:14 smiley1983: ok, so everything is ok 2012-11-01T12:15:23 No visualizer yet, but it looks like I might have a working Tron prototype: http://pastebin.com/uwxh0gNP 2012-11-01T12:15:43 ahh, great 2012-11-01T12:15:57 Zannick: false alarm, everything is fine ;) 2012-11-01T12:16:18 smiley1983: woot 2012-11-01T12:19:33 Speaking of Tron: http://www.unimaas.nl/games/files/bsc/Kang_Bsc-paper.pdf 2012-11-01T12:20:40 new branch now available here: https://github.com/smiley1983/aichallenge/tree/tron 2012-11-01T12:22:25 Was the author of that paper involved in the Tron contest? 2012-11-01T12:23:24 uh, okay 2012-11-01T12:24:37 Zannick: sorry, my fault 2012-11-01T12:24:55 no worries 2012-11-01T12:25:32 smiley1983: i don't know, just found it on web yesterday 2012-11-01T12:26:20 Looks interesting, though 2012-11-01T12:26:39 smiley1983: there is an aikon's postmortem in Readings so the autor at least knows about challenge. 2012-11-01T12:30:11 smiley1983: looks like the contest is mentioned for the first time on page 5 with discussion of aikon's bot 2012-11-01T12:30:15 *** amstan has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2012-11-01T12:31:16 *** smiley1983 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) 2012-11-01T12:32:13 *** smiley1983 has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T12:33:40 *** g0llum has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T12:44:06 *** mcstar has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T12:45:00 ewww, that conversation is pretty long 2012-11-01T12:45:55 mcstar: I've been contaminating the channel with talk of TCP and Tron 2012-11-01T12:46:10 thats not a problem 2012-11-01T12:46:11 mcstar: I know why there was a talk about contest. Because you weren't there :P 2012-11-01T12:46:19 but im used to less backlogs to read XD 2012-11-01T12:46:19 *here 2012-11-01T12:46:51 hm 2012-11-01T12:48:03 smiley1983: im going to have a powerful machine on a very fast network, the problem is, it is not reachable from outside the institute's network 2012-11-01T12:48:35 yeah, useless comment, i know 2012-11-01T12:50:41 SorryForMyEnglis: i read, that you develop for android now? 2012-11-01T12:51:08 \o 2012-11-01T12:51:23 o/ 2012-11-01T12:51:30 UncleVasya: ^^ 2012-11-01T12:51:43 mcstar: >< 2012-11-01T12:53:11 UncleVasya: can you tell me a little more? 2012-11-01T12:53:19 mcstar: not that much, just doing simple stuff. 2012-11-01T12:53:54 mcstar: github.com/InsaneMalkavian/SpeedLogger 2012-11-01T12:54:26 mcstar: here you can see it's almost nothing :) 2012-11-01T12:54:33 ive seen it 2012-11-01T12:54:39 but theres not much description 2012-11-01T12:55:15 what does it do? 2012-11-01T12:55:19 I'll tell more after my supper 2012-11-01T12:55:32 bon apetit 2012-11-01T13:02:19 *** Wren[Jobbmacen] has quit IRC (Quit: Wren[Jobbmacen]) 2012-11-01T13:03:41 mcstar: IM has a thing to cars so a program is for guys with car. 2012-11-01T13:04:06 *a thing for cars maybe right 2012-11-01T13:05:11 Driver starts app, then starts driving. Program tracks his movement until current speed < max speed or tracking time >= 5min 2012-11-01T13:05:21 i see, there is an Instant Messenger, that loves cars, and in fact wants a guy that cars things 2012-11-01T13:05:24 then driver gets some statistic. 2012-11-01T13:06:08 Like max speed, distance and some graphs. 2012-11-01T13:06:14 through gps? 2012-11-01T13:06:34 I didn't asked more details because I don't need them yet. 2012-11-01T13:06:39 yes, gps 2012-11-01T13:07:30 So I don't even know the purpose of launching the app :) 2012-11-01T13:07:38 *by driver 2012-11-01T13:08:09 I suppose there will be some ranking. 2012-11-01T13:08:21 UncleVasya: how easy do you think it was to write it? 2012-11-01T13:08:29 do you know java well? 2012-11-01T13:09:13 no, I didn't read any book/ articles about java. 2012-11-01T13:10:06 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T13:10:44 also from code you can see that I'm just writing simple things like helper functions (distance between points) or setting text for text fields. 2012-11-01T13:12:18 So I'm like in vacuum and think this is the case when I'm not exatly developing for Android. I don't think I'll feel any difference if Android + Java will be replaced with Something + Something. 2012-11-01T13:13:13 It's like a loops and conditions in programming languages - once you learned what it is, you can use them in any language, just see the syntax. 2012-11-01T13:14:32 mcstar: when I don't exactly know how to do something, it googles pretty easy. 2012-11-01T13:14:36 *** sigh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2012-11-01T13:14:54 mcstar: was it an answer for your question? 2012-11-01T13:14:57 java has a lot of keyword attributes 2012-11-01T13:15:01 i hate that 2012-11-01T13:15:08 UncleVasya: yeah, thanks 2012-11-01T13:15:24 mcstar: i didn't faced it yet :) 2012-11-01T13:15:44 static final const.. 2012-11-01T13:16:32 yep, I saw these thing but didn't pay attention :D 2012-11-01T13:16:42 @Override 2012-11-01T13:16:43 mcstar: You have no gotten any error messages recently, so here's a random one just to let you know that we care. 2012-11-01T13:16:43 public@Override 2012-11-01T13:16:49 contestbot: stfu 2012-11-01T13:16:50 mcstar: User error -- Replace user. 2012-11-01T13:17:03 public interface 2012-11-01T13:17:13 public class PreferencesActivity extends PreferenceActivity 2012-11-01T13:17:28 super 2012-11-01T13:17:31 it has super? 2012-11-01T13:17:45 static final 2012-11-01T13:17:59 anyway 2012-11-01T13:18:04 @Override I copypast and if ide don't like it, I delete @Override. No thinking requered :) 2012-11-01T13:18:04 UncleVasya: User error, it's not my fault. 2012-11-01T13:18:38 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T13:18:38 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2012-11-01T13:19:33 UncleVasya: were you not taught java in uni? 2012-11-01T13:20:05 and i dont know java's memory management model at all 2012-11-01T13:20:21 mcstar: it's a long story about unis in my country :) 2012-11-01T13:28:36 *** epicmonkey has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2012-11-01T13:33:52 mcstar: in short, there are several good enough unis in Ukraine. The're situated in big cities. And hundrets of small unis in both big cities and small towns. If you're smart you can go to a good ones. I am not good enough for these unis so I'm studying in a small one. Small ones aren't supposed to teach. They say they teach but their real aim - 1) to keep thousands of yang stupid guys from having free time (this is needed to pr 2012-11-01T13:33:52 otect streets from them); 2) teach them to do a stupid work like writing documents in Word etc. 2012-11-01T13:34:41 :( 2012-11-01T13:34:56 dont tell yourself that you are not good enough 2012-11-01T13:36:33 ok, I could be a good enough with some efforts but i'm not gonna make them :) 2012-11-01T13:37:10 heh, sounds familiar, i had a problem with diligence too 2012-11-01T13:40:41 mcstar: wow, Malkavian found there is already an app with his idea: http://4pda.ru/2012/10/30/76723/ 2012-11-01T13:41:08 so with google translate you can see what we are doing 2012-11-01T13:41:52 thats a bad app 2012-11-01T13:42:03 it encourages people to break speed limits 2012-11-01T13:42:42 UncleVasya: so, are you still going to develop it? 2012-11-01T13:43:08 or give in to the competition? XD 2012-11-01T13:44:08 anyway, i think im not going to be doing the android app 2012-11-01T13:44:41 i rather do that web project, and maybe, if they dont find anyone else, im going to give it a try btu only if i can use Qt 2012-11-01T13:45:14 mcstar: It's not my app, for me this is a possibility to work together with my friend just for fun. 2012-11-01T13:45:58 mcstar: what web project? 2012-11-01T13:46:01 dont you expect to earn money on it? 2012-11-01T13:46:28 mcstar: so there is no reason for me to stop if Malkavian proceeds. 2012-11-01T13:46:36 a little web interface for a sql server... 2012-11-01T13:47:41 also it's not like I am a very active developer. I'll code when I have a time and desire, there's no deadlines or responibility. 2012-11-01T13:48:27 mcstar: 'no ads, no money' 2012-11-01T13:50:01 mcstar: even if i wanted to I doubt I could without learning hard about java and about android development. 2012-11-01T13:50:32 mcstar: and this is not the things I'm planning to learn hard :) 2012-11-01T13:50:38 what are? 2012-11-01T13:51:09 wow, you catched me 2012-11-01T13:51:13 (also, i think you could get pretty far with java, if you invested in it a couple of weeks) 2012-11-01T13:51:25 there are no such things(( 2012-11-01T13:51:32 (im just not interested in doing that at all... XD) 2012-11-01T13:51:49 UncleVasya: youve got to have some plans 2012-11-01T13:51:56 my problem is that i have too many 2012-11-01T13:52:54 i have no plans, that's ok for me 2012-11-01T13:54:59 no, it isnt 2012-11-01T13:55:21 trust me, you are going to regret later, that you dont have plans now 2012-11-01T13:56:42 it is true but realizing that is not enough for me 2012-11-01T13:57:16 it must be enough for me as for adequate persone but somehow it isn't 2012-11-01T14:15:20 *** chris__0076 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2012-11-01T14:22:09 *** pairofdice has quit IRC (Quit: In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni.) 2012-11-01T14:27:32 *** coeus has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2012-11-01T14:32:47 *** epicmonkey has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T14:35:30 mcstar: java's memory model is just implementation-defined gc and no way to abstract other resources ;p 2012-11-01T14:35:42 unless you mean the memory model in terms of threading 2012-11-01T14:35:47 no 2012-11-01T14:36:02 but i have no idea how it does the gc'ing 2012-11-01T14:36:06 every time you use a resource like a file in java, you need to wrap stuff with try-finally 2012-11-01T14:36:10 mcstar: implementation-defined ;p 2012-11-01T14:36:20 it doesn't ever have to run a gc cycle at all 2012-11-01T14:36:38 it often just waits and the program exits first 2012-11-01T14:36:42 what are the scoping rules? 2012-11-01T14:36:54 like C (block-scoping) 2012-11-01T14:37:02 it's basically C with gc. 2012-11-01T14:37:02 does it have references? 2012-11-01T14:37:15 what does = do? 2012-11-01T14:37:27 when does it copy, when does not? 2012-11-01T14:37:31 I don't think like C++ references 2012-11-01T14:37:44 all these kinds of things are part of memory management 2012-11-01T14:37:47 in a broader sense 2012-11-01T14:38:04 or call-semantics? 2012-11-01T14:38:06 idk 2012-11-01T14:38:19 all variables are basically references to objects iirc 2012-11-01T14:38:25 I haven't dealt with it for a while 2012-11-01T14:38:30 and when I did it wasn't for long :P 2012-11-01T14:38:46 some minecraft thing ages ago 2012-11-01T14:38:50 anyway, i dont want to really know :) 2012-11-01T14:38:53 before mc had mining 2012-11-01T14:39:43 mcstar: basically C with gc, class-based OOP and method overloading - "generics" are sugar for casts 2012-11-01T14:39:45 just run far away 2012-11-01T14:39:47 and never use it 2012-11-01T14:39:55 thats my plan 2012-11-01T14:41:12 it also has labelled breaks which is essentially one of the evil uses of goto. 2012-11-01T14:41:18 should just use lazy streams, but no 2012-11-01T14:43:04 *** thestinger has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9) 2012-11-01T14:44:29 got it sensei, java sucks 2012-11-01T14:44:54 still, xathis used it to beat the crap out of us 2012-11-01T14:45:52 lol, yes he did indeed 2012-11-01T14:47:58 Yep, and next challenge GreenTea will. 2012-11-01T14:49:09 mcstar: btw GreenTea if from a good university. 2012-11-01T14:49:18 *is 2012-11-01T14:49:46 you should fucking try to win that contest 2012-11-01T14:49:58 if you have enough time 2012-11-01T14:50:00 *** coeus has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T14:50:01 mcstar: no way 2012-11-01T14:50:21 you dont have to code for it 24/7 2012-11-01T14:50:59 mcstar: I suppose you know ICFPC contest if I typed right. 2012-11-01T14:51:09 There is a team. 2012-11-01T14:51:31 Formed in 2002 or something. 2012-11-01T14:51:47 ICFP i believe 2012-11-01T14:53:07 They have a strong desire to win. They participiate every or almost every year. Haven't won yet. 2012-11-01T14:54:36 heh, i don't know why this irrelevant stuff came to my mind 2012-11-01T14:59:19 mcstar: oh, you're talking about aichallenge, not about tanks. Then yes, I have to try :) 2012-11-01T15:00:33 I will do my best. If my best will be good enough at the moment it will be great, if no, I'll be pleased with knowing I really did my best. 2012-11-01T15:00:49 As was for PW. 2012-11-01T15:01:33 *** Accoun has quit IRC () 2012-11-01T15:02:33 *** awly has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T15:07:18 UncleVasya: no, i was talking about tanks 2012-11-01T15:07:23 thats where greentea is first 2012-11-01T15:08:03 you sound like you want to try, but you are afraid that you get nowhere 2012-11-01T15:11:13 I sound wrong :) 2012-11-01T15:13:05 *** foRei has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T15:15:46 Tron now has visualizer, games seem to be working: https://github.com/smiley1983/aichallenge/tree/tron and now it's time for me to sleep 2012-11-01T15:15:49 mcstar: the game isn't interested enough for me to play in current time. If it was holding in summer or if it was holding by the name of aichallenge sure I'd participiate. 2012-11-01T15:16:05 smiley1983: thanks and good night! 2012-11-01T15:16:12 smiley1983: gn 2012-11-01T15:16:25 heh, it really is 2012-11-01T15:16:28 4 am? 2012-11-01T15:16:38 g'night :) 6:13 am 2012-11-01T15:16:43 *** smiley1983 has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2012-11-01T15:17:28 UncleVasya: you dont think it is interesting enough? 2012-11-01T15:17:39 i would attack it with machine learning 2012-11-01T15:17:49 but i dont have time for it at all 2012-11-01T15:17:56 and its all in russian :( 2012-11-01T15:19:51 mcstar: interesting, but not enough :) 2012-11-01T15:20:06 for my current state 2012-11-01T15:20:29 if just happened not in the proper time 2012-11-01T15:24:26 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T15:33:45 *** ramn[] has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T15:59:29 bye 2012-11-01T15:59:39 *** UncleVasya has quit IRC (Quit: UncleVasya) 2012-11-01T16:01:15 *** mcstar has quit IRC (Quit: mcstar) 2012-11-01T16:28:16 bye 2012-11-01T16:49:19 *** epicmonkey has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2012-11-01T17:02:44 *** awly has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-11-01T17:19:00 *** amstan has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2012-11-01T17:19:50 *** g0llum has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2012-11-01T18:13:19 *** sigh has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T18:25:50 *** thestinger has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T18:34:57 *** antimatroidl has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.) 2012-11-01T18:45:30 *** Scooper has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) 2012-11-01T18:46:26 *** sigh has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-11-01T18:55:44 *** foRei has quit IRC (Quit: Bye) 2012-11-01T19:15:28 *** thestinger has left #aichallenge ("WeeChat 0.3.9") 2012-11-01T19:41:14 *** dici has quit IRC (Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )) 2012-11-01T19:48:06 *** jmcarthur has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T20:36:48 *** SJRvanSchaik has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) 2012-11-01T20:47:56 *** thestinger has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T21:04:11 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T21:04:12 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2012-11-01T21:09:25 *** nann has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2012-11-01T21:09:30 *** Apophis_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2012-11-01T21:10:36 *** Apophis has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T21:10:46 *** Apophis_ has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T22:08:29 *** nick_ok has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T22:08:43 yo 2012-11-01T22:08:53 *** nick_ok has quit IRC (Client Quit) 2012-11-01T22:09:40 *** nick_ok has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T22:09:49 yo 2012-11-01T22:14:11 *** nick_ok has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2012-11-01T22:14:59 *** nick_ok has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T22:15:19 *** smiley1983 has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-01T22:21:22 *** nick_ok has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2012-11-01T23:22:37 *** antimatroidl has joined #aichallenge