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Have you seen my message about Ant maps few days ago? 2012-11-27T09:28:09 No, I must have missed it. Should I add some new maps? 2012-11-27T09:28:32 smiley1983: also I'm curious: is it you who called Smiley on aisandbox.com? 2012-11-27T09:28:40 Yes 2012-11-27T09:28:57 However, I probably won't be doing any real work on it 2012-11-27T09:29:53 smiley1983: http://ompldr.org/vZ2ZtcQ/fun_maps.zip 2012-11-27T09:30:23 smiley1983: if you will not like them then nvw 2012-11-27T09:30:29 *nvm 2012-11-27T09:30:30 Which ants server should I add these maps to? All of them? 2012-11-27T09:30:41 and should I add them, or replace the current maps? 2012-11-27T09:31:35 +1 for adding 2012-11-27T09:31:44 to all 2012-11-27T09:32:02 Also, I was thinking of raising the turn limit to 2000 2012-11-27T09:32:06 Any objections? 2012-11-27T09:32:09 yes, to add 2012-11-27T09:32:35 as in the turn limit communicated to clients, or actual turn limit? 2012-11-27T09:32:49 ramn[work]: not turn time 2012-11-27T09:32:54 number of turns 2012-11-27T09:32:59 indeed, number of turns per game 2012-11-27T09:33:04 higher turn limit = give users of "slow" programming languages or far away users some slack = good 2012-11-27T09:33:10 ah 2012-11-27T09:33:12 *** sigh has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-11-27T09:33:18 ah limit, hmm 2012-11-27T09:33:38 not sure that is good since games will take twice as long 2012-11-27T09:33:43 The actual time limit is already quite high, but can be raised further if needed 2012-11-27T09:33:57 perhaps on some maps the turn limit could be 2000 2012-11-27T09:34:10 but if set to 2000 for all maps then the turnaround on the server will be quite slow 2012-11-27T09:34:17 You can run many copies of various bots in order to get more games 2012-11-27T09:34:41 what is the reason for raising the turn limit? 2012-11-27T09:34:48 is there interestnig play after 1000:th turn? 2012-11-27T09:34:53 I suggest it because it can be quite frustrating to be unable to see the end of a good game, because it hit 1000 turns 2012-11-27T09:34:56 is it specific to certain maps? 2012-11-27T09:35:02 big battles :3 2012-11-27T09:35:22 could that change be made to some servers but not all? 2012-11-27T09:35:22 Yes, with stronger bots who are conservative about taking losses 2012-11-27T09:35:36 ok perhaps good for the ffa server 2012-11-27T09:35:40 yes, I might make the change on the free-for-all server but not others 2012-11-27T09:35:42 perhaps less good on the beginner hill 2012-11-27T09:35:56 beginner hill = not so interesting after turn 1000 2012-11-27T09:36:08 yes that seems good 2012-11-27T09:36:43 smiley1983: you are ranked 4th on aisandbox ;) 2012-11-27T09:36:44 I notice there were only 3 maps in the fun_maps file; if more are wanted I could look into generating some 2012-11-27T09:37:12 isn't it fifth? It doesn't really mean anything, except that the other submissions were mostly weak :) 2012-11-27T09:37:26 because mine was a starter bot 2012-11-27T09:37:46 lol 2012-11-27T09:38:26 I just submitted something because I wanted them to be able to run the first round of intermediate matches, and they were waiting for enough submissions 2012-11-27T09:38:45 Then again, it took some time for the Ants bots to get strong 2012-11-27T09:42:01 Servers stopped and started again with new maps, longer games for ffa and planetwars (300 turns rather than 200) 2012-11-27T09:42:25 thanks 2012-11-27T09:42:43 nice 2012-11-27T09:42:48 ramn[work]: you also asked about changing the time display, looking into it now 2012-11-27T09:42:58 smiley1983: ok thanks! 2012-11-27T09:43:04 yea I saw your answer before, 2012-11-27T09:43:16 hm do you have a repository with the server setup? 2012-11-27T09:44:22 Not with the specific configuration for this setup; the baseline code is all here: https://github.com/smiley1983/ants-tcp 2012-11-27T09:51:08 datetime.datetime.now() -> datetime.datetime.utcnow() 2012-11-27T09:51:13 in game_db.py 2012-11-27T09:51:54 yes 2012-11-27T09:52:02 testing it on beginner server now 2012-11-27T09:52:46 wicked stuff! 2012-11-27T09:52:48 datetime.datetime.ukrainenow() is the way to go :D 2012-11-27T09:53:13 Okay, I've reconnected a bot, after the first game we'll see if it's worked 2012-11-27T09:56:11 great success! 2012-11-27T09:56:15 Looks correct: 27.11.2012 14:52:23 2012-11-27T09:56:16 :) 2012-11-27T09:56:18 thanks smiley1983 2012-11-27T09:56:20 very nice 2012-11-27T09:56:34 perhaps this should be committed to the ants repo aswell 2012-11-27T09:56:38 seems like a proper change 2012-11-27T09:56:48 No worries, I'll make the change in the code for the other servers, but I might not restart them straight away 2012-11-27T09:57:14 I'll push the changes to my fork, others can grab them from there if wanted 2012-11-27T09:57:29 great, thx 2012-11-27T10:02:56 Changes now committed to github 2012-11-27T10:03:04 Servers also restarted 2012-11-27T10:03:13 so they should all be using UTC now 2012-11-27T10:14:42 *** smiley1983 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2012-11-27T10:16:19 *** smiley1983 has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-27T10:21:38 wicked 2012-11-27T10:24:59 Currently generating some new random maps; it'll take a while, though. 2012-11-27T10:29:17 currently up to about 80 of 2000 :) will check back in a while 2012-11-27T10:31:31 I've just discovered something - Bocsimacko crashes if the game is more than 200 turns long :/ 2012-11-27T10:31:38 I'll set it back to 200 2012-11-27T10:39:25 restarted map generation, remembering that I have to record number of players in the filename 2012-11-27T10:43:37 what is Bocsimacko 2012-11-27T10:43:50 Winner of PlanetWars contest :) 2012-11-27T10:47:13 Of course, the game is normally fewer than 200 turns - normally someone wins well before that 2012-11-27T10:48:11 For the contest, though, 200 turns was the limit, so the bot would not have seen longer games in the contest, I just found out when I set the TCP server to run games for 300 turns 2012-11-27T10:49:50 btw, I can report that I successfully run a bot off Heroku now 2012-11-27T10:49:59 very neat 2012-11-27T10:50:21 Excellent, glad to hear it :) Does the bot need to manage its own TCP connection, or can it use the python module? 2012-11-27T10:50:50 I'm using the python tcp client without modifications 2012-11-27T10:51:39 I have a bootstrap script that kicks off a dummy http server (one liner in python) since you have to have a http server listening 2012-11-27T10:51:48 then it starts the python tcpclient as usual 2012-11-27T10:52:22 Awesome :) If it's easy to write up a tutorial, I imagine posting it on the forums might create a more stable presence on the server 2012-11-27T10:52:30 yea I'll do that 2012-11-27T10:52:43 I can provide a ants heroku template project 2012-11-27T10:52:55 What happens to it when the server goes down temporarily? Does it need restarting manually, or can it do that itself? 2012-11-27T10:53:22 well, after one hour it will be shut down by heroku given I use the free package 2012-11-27T10:53:33 it is trivial to keep it alive, just ping it regularly from somewhere else 2012-11-27T10:53:54 or I can just visit its web address to restart it manually when I wanna run it for a while 2012-11-27T10:54:41 or you can make it restart itself actually, a bit of a hack but if you after each completed game intentionally crash the server, it will be restarted and the shutdown timer be reset.. 2012-11-27T10:55:15 This is the sort of planetwars game which makes me want them to run for longer: http://li414-97.members.linode.com:2090/replay.14708 2012-11-27T10:56:09 what are the numbers? some kind of strength? 2012-11-27T10:56:48 Number of ships 2012-11-27T10:56:52 an arrow+a number is a fleet with that many ships? 2012-11-27T10:56:54 ok 2012-11-27T10:57:09 yes I can see that you want this game to go on! 2012-11-27T10:57:48 yes - both the numbers on the planets and on the fleets in transit are the same resource 2012-11-27T10:57:56 *** mleise has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-27T10:59:44 *** mceier has quit IRC (Quit: leaving) 2012-11-27T11:00:01 Here's an example of an Ants game which would have ended given enough time, and would have been more satisfying that way: http://li414-97.members.linode.com:2080/replay.5286 2012-11-27T11:01:02 Though now I realise there were some timeouts / non-starters, so it's not such a good example 2012-11-27T11:02:41 Here's a better one, last hill just about to be overrun when the turn limit is reached: http://li414-97.members.linode.com:2080/replay.5077 2012-11-27T11:03:53 indeed 2012-11-27T11:05:02 tho you could also say it is part of the strategy, 2012-11-27T11:05:20 that if you are losing, you could switch strategy to just hold until turnlimit 2012-11-27T11:05:32 the turnlimit will always be arbitrary 2012-11-27T11:06:45 Oh yes, I'm in favour of bots knowing the turn limit and factoring that into their strategy 2012-11-27T11:07:03 I think that was one of the changes they made in Ants - telling the bots the turn limit as part of the setup 2012-11-27T11:07:10 ah 2012-11-27T11:07:15 in PlanetWars, I think they just made the figure public 2012-11-27T11:07:22 *** mcstar has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-27T11:07:26 hence a lot of bots being hardcoded for it 2012-11-27T11:07:36 mleise: where have you been? 2012-11-27T11:08:27 well, hi all 2012-11-27T11:08:30 dont feel left out 2012-11-27T11:08:41 Hi :) 2012-11-27T11:08:42 I took an off from my computer and my father had his 60th birthday 2012-11-27T11:09:05 oh, god bless him 2012-11-27T11:09:49 so did anything happen here ? 2012-11-27T11:10:27 no, i dont think so 2012-11-27T11:10:48 smile is developing his stuff, thats all 2012-11-27T11:10:51 y 2012-11-27T11:11:20 i have to throw a party for my mom's 60th 2012-11-27T11:11:37 have to 2012-11-27T11:11:40 2 years from now, but i should keep in mind, otherwise ill forget 2012-11-27T11:11:58 actually, it is closer to 1 year 2012-11-27T11:12:18 thestinger: hm? 2012-11-27T11:12:43 mleise: was it a surprise party? 2012-11-27T11:14:08 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-27T11:14:08 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2012-11-27T11:14:18 we aren't into big parties so much :). we had our traditional schwarzwälder cherry cake and watched some photos from my parent's holidays in spain 2012-11-27T11:14:51 also my sister wasn't there, since she's finishing her bachelor work 2012-11-27T11:15:04 im just feeling guilty, cause i didnt do anything special for her 50th 2012-11-27T11:16:05 mcstar: don't worry, she just cried herself to sleep that night 2012-11-27T11:16:44 women do that 2012-11-27T11:18:49 *** thestinger has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2) 2012-11-27T11:19:07 bye, stinger, whatever your problem is 2012-11-27T11:22:09 that sounds like "what's your problem man ?!" :D 2012-11-27T11:22:48 that was my intention 2012-11-27T11:23:10 since, his response was kind of, harsh? 2012-11-27T11:23:40 yes, it was 2012-11-27T11:25:30 turned out, one of my new collegues, does web developing as a second job 2012-11-27T11:25:56 smiley1983: if heroku thing will work then we'll be able to make tcps crowded all the time? 2012-11-27T11:26:29 collegaue* 2012-11-27T11:26:37 colleague* 2012-11-27T11:26:45 UncleVasya: yea should be much easier to keep bots online 2012-11-27T11:27:10 great 2012-11-27T11:28:24 Yes, hopefully. It might even be possible to get the TCP server to ping the heroku server to keep it alive automatically, though I don't know how hard that would be 2012-11-27T11:29:06 I can look into some simple keepalive function 2012-11-27T11:30:06 I noticed that the beginners server had 1500 for the turn limit, so I set it to 1000 2012-11-27T11:30:27 which is what the others had by default, I must have raised it when I first set it up 2012-11-27T11:30:43 the tcp server could send a http ping to each connected bot before or after each game 2012-11-27T11:31:20 yes, probably just after they (re)connect for a match would be easiest 2012-11-27T11:31:34 or one could have a lot of bots in "stand by", shut down on heroku 2012-11-27T11:31:45 then just ping the ones you want to participate in the coming hour 2012-11-27T11:32:05 in that scenario you don't want the server to ping them all 2012-11-27T11:32:14 I can make a scheduler app 2012-11-27T11:32:20 So once they get shut down, they can be revived again with a ping? 2012-11-27T11:32:24 yes 2012-11-27T11:32:34 they boot automatically if they are accessed by http 2012-11-27T11:32:42 takes a few seconds 2012-11-27T11:33:20 However, it's actually best (IMO) to have as many bots connected at once as possible - the server can run lots of games at once, so if there are thirty bots running, it just means a higher game turnover rate 2012-11-27T11:33:43 quite 2012-11-27T11:34:00 I think I might want to have some bots shut down tho 2012-11-27T11:34:18 perhaps the bot could send along an extra "keepalive" command upon registration 2012-11-27T11:34:25 which registers it for regular pings 2012-11-27T11:34:50 command "keep_alive", with the url as argument 2012-11-27T11:34:56 then just curl that url regularly 2012-11-27T11:35:31 My own programming efforts are mostly going elsewhere at the moment - so I'm happy to import these ideas if someone else codes them, but I won't be doing it myself at the moment 2012-11-27T11:35:51 gah, need to read my messages before posting so I don't repeat myself 2012-11-27T11:36:03 sure 2012-11-27T11:37:12 smiley1983: are you producing useful stuff? 2012-11-27T11:39:13 some of the plans could lead to useful stuff... 2012-11-27T11:39:51 for the last few days, I've been trying to decide whether or not to put real work into an aisandbox bot 2012-11-27T11:40:15 but I think I've decided not to, and have been looking into making a simple ranking webserver using ocamlnet 2012-11-27T11:41:25 *** replore has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-27T11:41:46 separate from the ai ranking stuff, but could then be extended into a replacement for the python webserver part (currently only able to handle one request at a time, and written in Python which isn't my favourite) 2012-11-27T11:45:14 ok 2012-11-27T11:45:22 ranking for different kinds of ai games? 2012-11-27T11:46:04 what's making aisandbox not worth the effort? (was thinking about it myself) 2012-11-27T11:47:15 *** mceier has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-27T11:49:44 smiley1983: will you host your ocamlnet project on github? 2012-11-27T11:50:14 *** dvladim has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-27T12:00:18 *** amstan has quit IRC (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2012-11-27T12:01:47 *** amstan has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-27T12:01:47 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o amstan 2012-11-27T12:05:39 *** alehorst has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2012-11-27T12:12:16 ramn[work]: first project will be for my friend's saber fencing club, later extension (if it happens) would be for ai games 2012-11-27T12:12:25 UncleVasya: yes, the plan would be to host it on github 2012-11-27T12:13:43 ramn[work]: about aisandbox... I want them to succeed, so I don't want to say it's not worth the effort; however, part of their focus seems to be making it just like working on a commercial game 2012-11-27T12:14:00 where you don't have access to the rules of the engine (apparently) 2012-11-27T12:14:53 so part of the challenge is modelling the engine, or making an AI which somehow works without a model of the world it's supposed to be reasoning about 2012-11-27T12:15:58 interesting problem, I'm sure, but not what I want to do for fun, and I have no interest in FPS games, so all in all, it has caught my attention and then lost it again 2012-11-27T12:19:05 *** alehorst has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-27T12:19:08 just found out that heroku has a free addon "scheduler" that one could use to ping the same heroku instance keeping it alive 2012-11-27T12:19:39 ok i see 2012-11-27T12:19:45 *** Wren80[work] has quit IRC (Quit: Wren80[work]) 2012-11-27T12:20:44 *** epicmonkey has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2012-11-27T12:21:03 *** replore has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) 2012-11-27T12:42:23 *** ramn[mba] has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-27T12:54:37 *** foRei has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-27T12:58:03 *** ramn[mba] has quit IRC (Quit: ramn[mba]) 2012-11-27T13:02:53 var Canvas2Image = (function() { 2012-11-27T13:02:55 wtf 2012-11-27T13:03:04 or rather, why the fuck 2012-11-27T13:03:22 why not, function Canvas2Image(){ 2012-11-27T13:12:48 An hour after explaining why I'm not going to work on an entry for aisandbox, I'm thinking about working on it 2012-11-27T13:14:02 Thought of something which could be sufficiently worth of implementing, even with the gross approximations which will be necessary to minimize effort 2012-11-27T13:14:33 worth -> worthy 2012-11-27T13:15:10 oh? 2012-11-27T13:15:20 nice 2012-11-27T13:15:23 you found the hole grail of the algorithms? 2012-11-27T13:15:26 holy 2012-11-27T13:15:57 The Only Algorithm Worth Implementing, we call it that 2012-11-27T13:16:06 XD 2012-11-27T13:16:26 now, imagine those poor other algorithms, how they must feel, they arent worth implementing :( 2012-11-27T13:16:36 no, just something which might fit into a few days / weeks, and outperform the starter 2012-11-27T13:16:48 good luck 2012-11-27T13:16:52 but dont forget to sleep 2012-11-27T13:17:07 *** dvladim has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2012-11-27T13:17:11 Other things I thought of would either require weeks/months of effort, or might not outperform some of the starters :) 2012-11-27T13:17:14 thanks :) 2012-11-27T13:17:55 smiley1983: more/less work than making an ants bot? 2012-11-27T13:19:51 I'm planning on much less effort than I put into my ants bot (I hope) - but the potential scope is similarly large 2012-11-27T13:20:13 how many hours did you put on your ants bot? 2012-11-27T13:20:17 if it's not rude to ask 2012-11-27T13:20:35 assuming there isn't some fundamental flaw in the game (like the blocking problem in early versions of Ants) 2012-11-27T13:21:05 I don't know how many hours; let me go and look at the git stats to see if it helps with some kind of estimate :) 2012-11-27T13:22:52 *** antimatroidl has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-27T13:25:46 *** ramn[mba] has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-27T13:27:04 ramn[]: I think the actual answer is that it's impossible to know; a fair bit of the development time was thinking time, and some of that was done during hours of paid employment. However, I would be surprised if those 200+ commits represented fewer than 200 hours of sitting in front of the computer (some of it running matches and watching replays), and it was probably a lot more if thinking time is included. 2012-11-27T13:30:43 smiley1983: ok! 2012-11-27T13:58:29 *** Accoun has quit IRC () 2012-11-27T13:59:24 *** alehorst has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2012-11-27T14:00:01 *** alehorst has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-27T14:00:23 *** tsc has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-27T14:12:52 *** antimatroidl has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2012-11-27T14:12:55 *** antimatroidl1 has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-27T14:16:44 *** Accoun has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-27T14:20:55 *** antimatroidl has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-27T14:20:56 *** antimatroidl1 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2012-11-27T14:26:52 *** Blkt has joined #aichallenge 2012-11-27T14:30:09 good evening everyone 2012-11-27T14:33:24 no, good night everyone :p 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