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2013-06-20T15:58:26  <UncleVasya> Pixars created a better love story in 4 minutes, than 4 twilight books: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2bk_9T482g
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2013-06-20T16:30:34  <mleise> UncleVasya: damnit, when his note on the baloon bumped into her book while she was sick, I had to :*|
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2013-06-20T16:36:27  <UncleVasya> mleise: I had wet eyes too.
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2013-06-20T17:13:56  <mcstar> i could have used some narrative
2013-06-20T17:14:08  <mcstar> or im emotionally cold...
2013-06-20T17:14:09  <thestinger> mcstar: \o
2013-06-20T17:14:12  <mcstar> o/
2013-06-20T17:14:26  <mcstar> or i simply dont get the story
2013-06-20T17:14:29  <thestinger> mcstar: I decided to start watching BSG because of you talking about it ;p
2013-06-20T17:14:54  * thestinger has only watched the miniseries so far though
2013-06-20T17:14:55  <mcstar> hm
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2013-06-20T17:15:10  <mcstar> you didnt watch it before?
2013-06-20T17:15:15  <mcstar> at all?
2013-06-20T17:16:00  <mleise> wow, you missed BSG the reimagined series?
2013-06-20T17:16:29  <mleise> I mean... the most dramatic and expensive Sci-Fi ever created?
2013-06-20T17:17:38  <mcstar> the most expensive space-drama
2013-06-20T17:17:47  <mcstar> yay
2013-06-20T17:18:13  <mcstar> thestinger: you should watch farscape instead
2013-06-20T17:18:19  <mcstar> :)
2013-06-20T17:18:27  <mcstar> at least thats funny
2013-06-20T17:18:56  <thestinger> I've seen farscape
2013-06-20T17:19:11  <thestinger> mleise: canada doesn't have syfy
2013-06-20T17:19:26  <thestinger> we had a crappy space channel but I dunno if it still exists
2013-06-20T17:19:57  <mcstar> it is not like a tv channel is the only way
2013-06-20T17:20:17  <mleise> thats right, i got my first 3 seasons from a WORK colleague
2013-06-20T17:20:18  <mcstar> also, im getting massively frustrated
2013-06-20T17:20:36  <mcstar> mleise: who tivo'd the episodes, right?
2013-06-20T17:20:38  <mcstar> XD
2013-06-20T17:20:44  <mleise> he said it was a good show and he liked it.
2013-06-20T17:20:52  <mcstar> you mean really?
2013-06-20T17:20:58  <mcstar> i mean , you mean it?
2013-06-20T17:21:05  <mleise> Yes, mcstar
2013-06-20T17:21:06  <mleise> really
2013-06-20T17:21:09  <mcstar> ah ok
2013-06-20T17:21:15  <mleise> but he didn't have the DVDs either :p
2013-06-20T17:21:25  <mcstar> i thought it was a eufemism for downloading it through torrent
2013-06-20T17:21:30  <mleise> looked like some conversion of a rip of someones dvd
2013-06-20T17:21:44  <mleise> I later loaded the HD versions
2013-06-20T17:22:07  <mleise> man, what a difference, you could really see the polygons on the minor transport vessels
2013-06-20T17:22:51  <mleise> aw... and that scene where they sweep through that resurrection ship ... bam*bam*bam*fireworks
2013-06-20T17:23:32  <mleise> and the cynical doctor... I miss it alright
2013-06-20T17:24:50  <mcstar> yeah... i remember...
2013-06-20T17:24:56  <mcstar> (no i dont..)
2013-06-20T17:25:39  <mcstar> if i had to make another modification on these damn plots im gonnna tear this keyboard apart
2013-06-20T17:25:46  <mcstar> or i do something equally brutal
2013-06-20T17:25:52  <mcstar> oooh
2013-06-20T17:25:56  <mcstar> he likes them!
2013-06-20T17:25:58  <mcstar> finally
2013-06-20T17:26:10  <mcstar> ty bosssss now i log off for today
2013-06-20T17:27:26  <mcstar> sry boys..
2013-06-20T17:28:54  <mcstar> i must have collected thousands of ants today
2013-06-20T17:29:01  <mcstar> and they are still pouring in
2013-06-20T17:30:36  <mcstar> thestinger: is rust's `as` always safe?
2013-06-20T17:30:47  <thestinger> mcstar: yes
2013-06-20T17:30:58  <thestinger> anything outside of unsafe {} is always safe
2013-06-20T17:31:09  <thestinger> and all unsafe lets you do is dereference raw pointers or call unsafe fns
2013-06-20T17:31:18  <mcstar> and inside unsafe, can it be misused?
2013-06-20T17:31:22  <thestinger> mcstar: no
2013-06-20T17:31:28  <thestinger> but you could make an invalid raw ptr and deref it
2013-06-20T17:31:36  <mcstar> ok, so `as` is unrelated to unsafe
2013-06-20T17:31:42  <mcstar> yeah
2013-06-20T17:31:44  <thestinger> mcstar: you could do
2013-06-20T17:31:46  <thestinger> 0 as *int
2013-06-20T17:31:47  <mcstar> but thats not `as` technically
2013-06-20T17:31:49  <thestinger> but that's safe
2013-06-20T17:32:07  <thestinger> * is just like uint - you can deref a raw ptr or use a uint for unsafe array access, but not outside of unsafe {}
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2013-06-20T17:37:36  <mcstar> thestinger: but you could still index an array out of bounds in unsafe code
2013-06-20T17:37:44  <mcstar> safe*
2013-06-20T17:37:46  <mcstar> sry
2013-06-20T17:38:23  <thestinger> mcstar: yes but not with unsafe unchecked indexing
2013-06-20T17:39:28  <mcstar> Therefore, we instead wait and lazilly construct the vtable at the point of the cast.
2013-06-20T17:39:44  <mcstar> thats interesting
2013-06-20T17:40:03  <mcstar> do i have to always use `as` to make the cast, or it can be implicit?
2013-06-20T17:40:26  <thestinger> mcstar: you mean for trait objects?
2013-06-20T17:40:32  <mcstar> yes
2013-06-20T17:40:38  <mcstar> i think at least
2013-06-20T17:40:40  <thestinger> mcstar: I think there are implicit conversions now, I could be wrong
2013-06-20T17:40:44  <mcstar> whatever objects rust supports
2013-06-20T17:40:53  <thestinger> mcstar: trait objects aren't commonly used
2013-06-20T17:41:27  <mcstar> well it expresses subtyping
2013-06-20T17:41:40  <mcstar> but as interfaces, instead of classes
2013-06-20T17:41:47  <thestinger> mcstar: not really
2013-06-20T17:41:52  <thestinger> trait *objects* aren't the only way to use traits
2013-06-20T17:42:52  <thestinger> isn't trait inheritance without dynamic dispatch still subtyping?
2013-06-20T17:43:00  <mcstar> well, this passage talks about how vtables are associated with interfaces, not objects, and how the cast actually instantiates the vtable
2013-06-20T17:43:16  <thestinger> mcstar: okay, but rust's traits can be used either as type classes or interfaces
2013-06-20T17:43:23  <thestinger> and there are only vtables if you use them as interfaces
2013-06-20T17:43:36  <thestinger> but either way has trait inheritance and the same implementations
2013-06-20T17:44:11  * thestinger doesn't know where you're reading from
2013-06-20T17:44:16  <mcstar> yeah
2013-06-20T17:44:24  <mcstar> i would be surpriesed if you did
2013-06-20T17:44:27  <mcstar> -e
2013-06-20T17:45:00  <mcstar> http://smallcultfollowing.com/babysteps/blog/2012/04/09/rusts-object-system/
2013-06-20T17:45:19  <thestinger> oh niko's blog
2013-06-20T17:45:28  <thestinger> mcstar: that's really old
2013-06-20T17:45:33  <mcstar> :(
2013-06-20T17:45:43  <mcstar> only little more than a year
2013-06-20T17:45:47  <thestinger> no 'iface' or 'class' keyword anymore
2013-06-20T17:45:49  <thestinger> mcstar: yeah but it's rust.
2013-06-20T17:45:52  <mcstar> some languages dont change in 20 years...
2013-06-20T17:46:08  <thestinger> mcstar: iface became trait and classes are totally gone
2013-06-20T17:46:23  <thestinger> there are structs (nominal types) and enums (ADTs)
2013-06-20T17:46:34  <thestinger> impls of traits (or anonymous impls) can be done for either
2013-06-20T17:47:04  <thestinger> there are no constructors, we just use static methods
2013-06-20T17:47:12  <thestinger> and destructors are done by implementing the Drop trait
2013-06-20T17:47:21  <mcstar> so, where are these explained?
2013-06-20T17:47:44  <mcstar> i wonder what you did, really, read the source code?
2013-06-20T17:47:58  <thestinger> mcstar: http://static.rust-lang.org/doc/tutorial.html ?
2013-06-20T17:48:08  <mcstar> thats not enough
2013-06-20T17:48:11  <thestinger> the tutorial is really bad
2013-06-20T17:48:24  <thestinger> mcstar: well niko's blog is a good place to be but not that old ;p
2013-06-20T17:48:58  <mcstar> he should flag the outdate posts
2013-06-20T17:49:01  <mcstar> d
2013-06-20T17:49:13  <thestinger> pcwalton's blog mostly talks about memory management and lifetimes
2013-06-20T17:49:24  <thestinger> dunno where you can find in-depth stuff on traits
2013-06-20T17:50:05  <mcstar> it doesnt matter for the moment
2013-06-20T17:50:11  <thestinger> mcstar: I probably *did* learn from reading source code ;p
2013-06-20T17:50:20  <mcstar> it will still be some time, until i write a line of rust
2013-06-20T17:50:30  <mcstar> thestinger: i meant, the compiler's
2013-06-20T17:50:44  <thestinger> well and the stdlib
2013-06-20T17:50:51  <thestinger> it's ~250k lines of rust, the whole thing
2013-06-20T17:50:52  <mcstar> what better documentation than an implementation, right?
2013-06-20T17:50:58  <thestinger> mcstar: well I mean the stdlib
2013-06-20T17:51:10  <mcstar> yeah
2013-06-20T17:51:13  <thestinger> and the compiler is written in rust
2013-06-20T17:51:17  <mcstar> it is interesting to look at haskell source too
2013-06-20T17:51:24  <thestinger> I don't mean reading the implementation to find out how it works
2013-06-20T17:51:32  <thestinger> I mean reading the implementation as an example of rust ;p
2013-06-20T17:51:38  <mcstar> yes
2013-06-20T17:51:46  <mcstar> and ok
2013-06-20T17:51:48  <mcstar> i meant both
2013-06-20T17:52:10  <mcstar> anyway, my first comment on reading the compiler's source was a joke
2013-06-20T17:52:19  <thestinger> mcstar: https://github.com/pcwalton/sprocketnes/blob/master/cpu.rs traits, structs and macros
2013-06-20T17:52:39  <thestinger> trait AddressingMode<M> {
2013-06-20T17:52:41  <thestinger>     fn load(&self, cpu: &mut Cpu<M>) -> u8;
2013-06-20T17:52:43  <thestinger>     fn store(&self, cpu: &mut Cpu<M>, val: u8);
2013-06-20T17:52:45  <thestinger> }
2013-06-20T17:52:47  <thestinger> impl<M:Mem> AddressingMode<M> for AccumulatorAddressingMode {
2013-06-20T17:52:53  <thestinger> generic impl of it for any type implementing the Mem trait
2013-06-20T17:53:02  <thestinger> well
2013-06-20T17:53:13  <mcstar> thestinger: but that doesnt tell me, in what situations is this useful
2013-06-20T17:53:28  <thestinger> mcstar: I guess
2013-06-20T17:53:31  <mcstar> i mean, instead of this circlejerk it would be nice to write a big codebase
2013-06-20T17:53:35  <mcstar> and have some experience...
2013-06-20T17:53:44  <mcstar> in any language, i mean
2013-06-20T17:53:55  <mcstar> i dont consider myself experienced at all
2013-06-20T17:53:59  * thestinger has written a lot of rust :)
2013-06-20T17:54:26  <mcstar> i cleaned a lot of rust
2013-06-20T17:54:35  <mcstar> with a steelbrush, if you must know :)
2013-06-20T17:54:51  <thestinger> 367 commits / 64,320 ++ / 19,603 --
2013-06-20T17:54:54  <thestinger> to upstream rust :)
2013-06-20T17:55:09  <thestinger> although you can subtract ~20k lines from the + side
2013-06-20T17:55:15  <thestinger> because it's from adding jemalloc to the repo
2013-06-20T17:55:30  <mcstar> hm, how do you get fractional lines?
2013-06-20T17:55:57  <mcstar> oh, it is 64k?
2013-06-20T17:56:01  <thestinger> yes
2013-06-20T17:56:01  <mcstar> :)
2013-06-20T17:56:04  <mcstar> j/k
2013-06-20T17:56:54  <thestinger> I think it's more like 30k/15k that aren't mass-deletions/additions of things
2013-06-20T17:56:55  <mcstar> well, im sure they will be giving you rust stock options...
2013-06-20T17:57:06  <thestinger> mcstar: t-shirt and sticker*
2013-06-20T17:57:12  <mcstar> lol
2013-06-20T17:57:33  <mcstar> are you planning to work there eventually?
2013-06-20T17:57:36  <thestinger> mcstar: maybe a limited edition rust t-shirt (there are like 18) will be worth something in a decade ;p
2013-06-20T17:57:39  <thestinger> mcstar: maybe :)
2013-06-20T17:57:57  <thestinger> I'd need to actually go get a BSc in CS first though
2013-06-20T17:58:10  <mcstar> hehe, that would come handy indeed
2013-06-20T17:58:33  <mcstar> the problem is that it wouldnt be a challenge for you
2013-06-20T17:58:37  <mcstar> you would be mostly bored
2013-06-20T17:58:53  <thestinger> sure
2013-06-20T17:59:03  <thestinger> but it's uni, not high school - if I was bored I wouldn't have to do anything
2013-06-20T17:59:22  <mcstar> you would still need to graduate
2013-06-20T17:59:32  <thestinger> yeah but I wouldn't need to study for CS classes... just math
2013-06-20T18:00:01  <mcstar> you might find out, that you are actually interested in math
2013-06-20T18:00:11  <mcstar> if you can take some physics classes too :)
2013-06-20T18:00:32  <thestinger> I like plain old math more than stupid physics
2013-06-20T18:00:42  <mcstar> :(
2013-06-20T18:00:50  * thestinger hates physics
2013-06-20T18:00:55  <mcstar> ::((
2013-06-20T18:01:01  <mcstar> said spider
2013-06-20T18:01:04  <mcstar> -i
2013-06-20T18:01:43  <mcstar> g2g
2013-06-20T18:03:45  <thestinger> \o
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