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2013-07-02T01:10:48  <mcstar> thestinger: lol, you never stop talking do you?
2013-07-02T01:10:59  <thestinger> mcstar: nope, insomnia ;[
2013-07-02T01:11:05  <mcstar> oh
2013-07-02T01:11:21  <thestinger> had to go up on the roof today
2013-07-02T01:11:38  <mcstar> to fix something?
2013-07-02T01:11:48  <mcstar> or to finally go to sleep?
2013-07-02T01:12:51  <thestinger> mcstar: to clean the eavestroughs and also redo the flat roof
2013-07-02T01:13:27  <mcstar> i didnt know you were a handyman also :)
2013-07-02T01:13:36  <thestinger> mcstar: my dad made me do it ;p
2013-07-02T01:17:55  <mcstar> thestinger: i was surprised that there is no popen alternative in the c++ stdlib
2013-07-02T01:18:15  <thestinger> mcstar: there's hardly anything in the C++ stdlib
2013-07-02T01:18:41  <thestinger> mcstar: they don't have a way to open a file and let you see why it failed
2013-07-02T01:18:45  <thestinger> fstream gives a generic error
2013-07-02T01:18:48  <thestinger> it's terrible
2013-07-02T01:19:03  <thestinger> oh good "bad" and "not open", was it a permission error, was the file missing?
2013-07-02T01:19:05  <mcstar> i think it has quite a lot of stuff
2013-07-02T01:19:08  <mcstar> now more than ever, with c++11
2013-07-02T01:19:37  <mcstar> popen is silently missing
2013-07-02T01:19:49  <thestinger> mcstar: no networking
2013-07-02T01:19:55  <thestinger> no tcp/udp/http/dns/anything
2013-07-02T01:20:01  <mcstar> hm, ok, but i dont use that :)
2013-07-02T01:20:03  <thestinger> in either C or C++
2013-07-02T01:20:10  <thestinger> mcstar: okay, no serialization, no json/xml/html
2013-07-02T01:20:11  <mcstar> well, qt has those anyway
2013-07-02T01:20:23  <mcstar> thestinger: now you are comparing it to python !
2013-07-02T01:20:25  <mcstar> :)
2013-07-02T01:20:40  <mcstar> c++ doesnt need those technologies...
2013-07-02T01:20:41  <thestinger> mcstar: no support for multiprocessing (pipes, forking, etc.) ;p
2013-07-02T01:20:51  <mcstar> yeah, getting bad now
2013-07-02T01:20:54  <mcstar> stop
2013-07-02T01:20:55  <thestinger> no crypto support
2013-07-02T01:20:58  <mcstar> stop
2013-07-02T01:21:05  <mcstar> c++ stdlib sucks i agree
2013-07-02T01:21:05  <thestinger> lol
2013-07-02T01:21:35  <thestinger> mcstar: standard C/C++ doesn't even have packed structs!
2013-07-02T01:21:47  <mcstar> whats that?
2013-07-02T01:21:52  <thestinger> mcstar: structs without padding
2013-07-02T01:22:04  <thestinger> struct foo { int64_t x; bool y }
2013-07-02T01:22:07  <thestinger> is 16 bytes
2013-07-02T01:22:22  <thestinger> sometimes you need the 9 byte unpadded struct, especially when dealing with networking/serialization/drivers
2013-07-02T01:22:43  <mcstar> just use a union?
2013-07-02T01:22:49  <thestinger> mcstar: no
2013-07-02T01:22:53  <thestinger> |int64_t|bool|
2013-07-02T01:22:55  <thestinger> instead of
2013-07-02T01:22:59  <thestinger> |int64_t|bool|padding|
2013-07-02T01:23:11  <thestinger> it pads to the largest field alignment
2013-07-02T01:23:13  <mcstar> yeah, but with a union you can have bitfields
2013-07-02T01:23:25  <mcstar> i guess you can work around it
2013-07-02T01:23:46  <mcstar> or not
2013-07-02T01:23:56  <thestinger> mcstar: the workaround is __attribute__((packed)) ;p
2013-07-02T01:24:15  <thestinger> and before C++11/C11, there was no way to deal with alignment at all
2013-07-02T01:24:24  <thestinger> they added alignas/alignof/aligned_alloc
2013-07-02T01:24:33  <mcstar> so this lead to non portable code?
2013-07-02T01:24:37  <thestinger> mcstar: yep
2013-07-02T01:24:44  <thestinger> mcstar: or people just not doing things properly
2013-07-02T01:25:01  <mcstar> where were you when the standards were made?
2013-07-02T01:25:11  <mcstar> you could have protested
2013-07-02T01:25:12  <thestinger> mcstar: they don't add things to the C standard
2013-07-02T01:25:25  <mcstar> but nooo you sat there silently and watch the world go astray
2013-07-02T01:25:26  <thestinger> they only standardize existing practices that are supported by nearly everyone
2013-07-02T01:25:53  <thestinger> mcstar: they are a bunch of enterprisy companies
2013-07-02T01:26:03  <thestinger> mcstar: the head of the C and C++ committees works for microsoft
2013-07-02T01:26:05  <thestinger> on visual studio
2013-07-02T01:26:05  <mcstar> i suspect rust has packed structs :)
2013-07-02T01:26:12  <thestinger> microsoft doesn't even implement c99
2013-07-02T01:26:16  <thestinger> mcstar: yep
2013-07-02T01:26:31  <thestinger> #[packed] struct Foo { x: i64, y: bool }
2013-07-02T01:26:33  <thestinger> ;p
2013-07-02T01:26:49  <mcstar> thestinger: anyway, i dont get it, you could have just used a char
2013-07-02T01:26:59  <thestinger> mcstar: no
2013-07-02T01:27:05  <mcstar> wouldnt that altogether be 9 bytes?
2013-07-02T01:27:08  <thestinger> struct foo { int64_t x, char y }
2013-07-02T01:27:10  <thestinger> do sizeof on it
2013-07-02T01:27:12  <thestinger> 16
2013-07-02T01:27:17  <mcstar> :(
2013-07-02T01:27:25  <thestinger> it pads to the alignment of the highest aligned field
2013-07-02T01:27:37  <thestinger> because otherwise if you had an array of them, it wouldn't be aligned right
2013-07-02T01:27:53  <mcstar> so i cant unpack 9 bytes correctly to that struct?
2013-07-02T01:27:56  <thestinger> some archs allow unaligned memory access
2013-07-02T01:28:22  <thestinger> mcstar: on most architectures (not x86/x86_64/itanium) you can only do aligned memory access
2013-07-02T01:28:24  <thestinger> so...
2013-07-02T01:28:29  <thestinger> if you want to deal with 64-bit ints
2013-07-02T01:28:47  <thestinger> they have to start at addresses that are multiples of their size
2013-07-02T01:28:53  <mcstar> so the problem here is the 8 bytes of long int?
2013-07-02T01:28:57  <thestinger> mcstar: yes so
2013-07-02T01:29:01  <thestinger> say you have an array of these
2013-07-02T01:29:04  <thestinger> foo|foo|foo
2013-07-02T01:29:11  <thestinger> arrays are contiguous
2013-07-02T01:29:22  <thestinger> 64-bit ints have to be aligned to 8-byte boundaries on most archs
2013-07-02T01:29:28  <mcstar> i understand
2013-07-02T01:29:43  <thestinger> mcstar: and even on x86, unaligned access only became fast recently
2013-07-02T01:29:47  <mcstar> but wouldnt this still be a problem with a 4 byte int and a char?
2013-07-02T01:29:52  <thestinger> mcstar: yep
2013-07-02T01:29:54  <thestinger> that'll be 8 bytes
2013-07-02T01:30:19  <mcstar> it makes sense somewhat
2013-07-02T01:30:31  <mcstar> i mean, C is really portable...
2013-07-02T01:30:32  <thestinger> sometimes you really need packed structs
2013-07-02T01:30:36  <mcstar> in a sense
2013-07-02T01:30:39  <thestinger> mcstar: yeah, that's the idea
2013-07-02T01:30:41  <mcstar> the bare standards
2013-07-02T01:30:53  <thestinger> packing data isn't portable in a uniform way
2013-07-02T01:31:03  <thestinger> you can pack *as much as possible*
2013-07-02T01:31:22  <thestinger> mcstar: it's mostly that it tries to be simple
2013-07-02T01:31:46  <thestinger> it only includes things that were either part of C before they standardized it, or are deemed *essential*
2013-07-02T01:32:16  <thestinger> so it's a huge legacy mess
2013-07-02T01:32:26  <thestinger> and because of that they are afraid to add anything
2013-07-02T01:32:32  <thestinger> and yet the things they do add are poorly designed :(
2013-07-02T01:33:47  * thestinger blames microsoft and ibm
2013-07-02T01:35:12  <mcstar> struct { int x: 32; bool y: 8; bool :8; bool: 8; bool 8 } wouldnt something like this not work?
2013-07-02T01:35:17  <mcstar> -not
2013-07-02T01:36:03  <thestinger> mcstar: it'll still pad it ;p
2013-07-02T01:36:27  <mcstar> but now you could access that bool
2013-07-02T01:36:34  <mcstar> i dont want an array of these
2013-07-02T01:36:39  <mcstar> just to unpack something
2013-07-02T01:37:28  <thestinger> mcstar: struct foo { int x; bool y; bool z; }
2013-07-02T01:37:34  <thestinger> say int is 32-bit
2013-07-02T01:37:34  <mcstar> wait, you mean the sizeof would be larger than 64?
2013-07-02T01:37:36  <thestinger> that is 12 bytes
2013-07-02T01:37:49  <thestinger> there is a gap between y and z and a gap at the end
2013-07-02T01:38:05  <thestinger> mcstar: not sure
2013-07-02T01:38:37  <thestinger> mcstar: http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/types/offsetof ;p
2013-07-02T01:40:52  <mcstar> great
2013-07-02T01:41:13  <mcstar> and now i could test this, if i wanted to which i dont fucking want to :)
2013-07-02T01:41:39  <mcstar> ive got to finish the plasmoid
2013-07-02T01:42:08  <mcstar> oh i dropped python for that
2013-07-02T01:42:14  <mcstar> now its c++ and qml
2013-07-02T01:42:21  <mcstar> ugly stuff this qml is
2013-07-02T01:44:03  <thestinger> heh
2013-07-02T01:44:13  <thestinger> mcstar: so a weird js/c++ hybrid? ;p
2013-07-02T01:44:27  <mcstar> well, static json like something + js hybrid
2013-07-02T01:44:30  <mcstar> =qml
2013-07-02T01:44:51  <mcstar> c++ is for the communication throught the local socket and to load the qml
2013-07-02T02:08:29  <mcstar> thestinger: success! i know the socket path to i3 :)
2013-07-02T02:08:48  <mcstar> ugly piece of shtako code
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