2014-04-10T16:12:58  *** contestbot <contestbot!~supybot@aichallenge/bot/contestbot> has joined #aichallenge
2014-04-10T16:12:58  -dickson.freenode.net- [freenode-info] if you're at a conference and other people are having trouble connecting, please mention it to staff: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
2014-04-10T16:12:58  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o contestbot
2014-04-10T16:13:04  <amstan> contestbot: there you are
2014-04-10T16:13:07  <contestbot> amstan: I'm sorry Dave, err amstan; I cannot 'there'.
2014-04-10T16:16:09  <amstan> janzert: oh, right, aarossig already got an offer
2014-04-10T16:17:37  <janzert> Google is eating you all :)
2014-04-10T16:17:44  <amstan> janzert: your turn?
2014-04-10T16:18:06  <amstan> i'm surprised you haven't
2014-04-10T16:18:32  <janzert> Heh, I'll stick with my family business and program on the side
2014-04-10T16:18:44  <amstan> ah, ok
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2014-04-10T16:39:54  <janzert> oddshrimp: just finished your write up, it would be interesting to see dates for each version as well
2014-04-10T16:40:19  <oddshrimp> ah, you're right, good idea
2014-04-10T16:40:44  <janzert> and if you ever want to try out another game with a small but long standing developer community, you might give an Arimaa bot a try
2014-04-10T16:41:01  <oddshrimp> the range is oddshrimp2.1  on 26 Nov to oddshrimp4.1 on 23 Feb so far
2014-04-10T16:41:09  <oddshrimp> kind of longer than the contest :-)
2014-04-10T16:41:13  <janzert> cool
2014-04-10T16:41:43  <oddshrimp> next dev version when i've worked through my list of ideas to try before working more on search
2014-04-10T16:43:11  <oddshrimp> because when i make it use all its time, testing will get slower....
2014-04-10T16:43:22  <janzert> :)
2014-04-10T16:43:22  <oddshrimp> do everything else first!
2014-04-10T16:44:27  <janzert> you'll be at the stage needed for games with real timecontrols then, test with short move times first then try it at the real time
2014-04-10T16:45:31  <oddshrimp> right now it takes as long as it takes for 6 ply, sometimes it uses all its time and has to cut the search short but it's rare
2014-04-10T16:46:05  <oddshrimp> when i get it tuned up i expect 8-10 ply unless i also add smarts that slows it down
2014-04-10T16:46:35  <oddshrimp> no contest bot ever did a search that was remotely like this one
2014-04-10T16:47:22  * janzert nods
2014-04-10T16:47:50  <oddshrimp> of course it's only possible because the move generator is simultaneously fast and pretty smart
2014-04-10T16:49:21  <oddshrimp> tuning up will also involve checking the widths, i might change it completely
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2014-04-10T16:59:04  <oddshrimp> speaking of real time, a truly real-time game would be a good challenge game
2014-04-10T16:59:34  <oddshrimp> bot gets to think when it wants and move when it wants, server measures the times to some tick interval like 1 microsecond or whatever
2014-04-10T17:00:10  <janzert> it gets much harder to ensure fair processing power availability and such, but it would be interesting
2014-04-10T17:00:18  <oddshrimp> uses more server time, too
2014-04-10T17:00:34  <oddshrimp> so it's basically more expensive in every way, but still cool
2014-04-10T17:01:13  <oddshrimp> and that native way of trading off thinking versus acting feels very natural
2014-04-10T17:01:34  <oddshrimp> it's just what animals and robots have to do to get by, after all
2014-04-10T17:03:52  <oddshrimp> even something extremely simple like a simple racing game might be good if it were real time like that
2014-04-10T17:03:57  <janzert> at some level there is no "real-time" it's just that the move times get shorter than useful work can be done and multiple ones have to be used for each meaningful decision :)
2014-04-10T17:04:07  <oddshrimp> just so
2014-04-10T17:04:51  <oddshrimp> quantum time
2014-04-10T17:05:19  <janzert> planck time
2014-04-10T17:05:33  <oddshrimp> i don't think you'll find any servers that fast, though
2014-04-10T17:05:55  <oddshrimp> not on this side of the wormhole
2014-04-10T17:06:30  <janzert> you just have to go to 10 on the Yudkowsky ambition scale :)
2014-04-10T17:06:38  <janzert> http://lesswrong.com/lw/ehd/the_yudkowsky_ambition_scale/
2014-04-10T17:07:04  <oddshrimp> heh
2014-04-10T17:08:11  <oddshrimp> hmm, 7 8 and 9 might be out of order on that list
2014-04-10T17:08:18  <oddshrimp> no matter
2014-04-10T17:08:26  <janzert> :)
2014-04-10T17:08:43  <oddshrimp> i mean, 9 is my next goal after beating bocsimacko, right?
2014-04-10T17:09:06  <janzert> heh, just a small jump up
2014-04-10T17:09:24  <oddshrimp> exactly
2014-04-10T17:11:35  <oddshrimp> after i bayes-ify the move gen and eval, it's just one more generalization step, right?
2014-04-10T17:12:18  <janzert> I'm sure it will be a simple exercise that can be left to the reader
2014-04-10T17:12:34  <oddshrimp> you're right, i don't even have to bother with it myself
2014-04-10T17:12:59  <oddshrimp> just print it up with an exercise number and add a * to indicate that it's an advanced exercise
2014-04-10T17:13:26  <janzert> :)
2014-04-10T17:13:58  <oddshrimp> that's probably how the semiconductor industry got started
2014-04-10T17:14:26  <oddshrimp> * 2. miniaturize this transistor
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2014-04-10T18:29:45  <oddshrimp> oop, new logfile appeared at http://contestbot.aichallenge.org/channellogs/%23aichallenge/ but there's a gap that includes my info dump
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2014-04-10T20:34:34  <oddshrimp> i'm off, i expect i'll check in from time to time
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